Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:13:53 *** yorick has quit IRC 01:12:36 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:19:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:36:44 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 01:37:43 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:38:26 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:39:46 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:45:51 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 01:46:02 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:56:36 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 01:57:47 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:31:41 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 02:32:51 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 03:14:48 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 03:15:54 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 03:44:07 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 03:45:14 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:44:17 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 04:45:26 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:53:37 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 04:53:49 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:29:48 <Elyon> how worried should I be about performance when performing, say, 64+ VarACtion2Advanced operations per tile for a station on every retrigger of my random nibble? 06:16:53 *** Elyon_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:18:40 *** Elyon has quit IRC 06:25:43 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 06:27:07 *** Elyon_ is now known as Elyon 07:13:43 <Elyon> furthermore: there's 32 bits in property 0x12 (Cargo types for random triggers) bitmask, but what if I have defined more than 32 cargo IDs, and want all of them to trigger randomisation? 07:23:57 <Taede> isnt there only 32 cargoes per game? 07:24:18 <Taede> if so, why have random bits for cargoes which are unused, only use the bits for the cargoes that are actually active? 07:24:18 <V453000> at the same time 07:24:26 <V453000> oh :) 07:25:34 <Elyon> Taede: but I can't know at compile-time which of the 64-odd entries in my cargo table are actually in use. What if it's the latter 32, how can I enable triggers for /any/ of them? 07:27:56 <Elyon> given that they all have cargoIDs above 31 07:28:03 <Taede> i take it there is no action/callback or something where the newgrf gets told which cargoes are active during runtime? and then enable only those triggers? 07:28:13 <Taede> <-- knows nothing about newgrf coding 07:28:23 <Elyon> haha alright. I bet there is a callback somewhere maybe 07:28:48 <Elyon> but as it stands, I can't select cargoes 32-63 for triggers and those may be the only ones in use 09:22:34 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #92-push: SUCCESS in 24 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/92/ 09:30:15 <planetmaker> Elyon, depends on what things cause the re-trigger 09:30:33 <planetmaker> and yes, there's only 32 cargoes per game 09:31:13 <planetmaker> and to deal with the issue of more cargoes than cargo slots - that's why we have a cargo translation table. Not sure how that works with stations, though 09:31:21 <planetmaker> or even if that works with stations, though 09:31:33 <V453000> :0 09:34:13 <Elyon> planetmaker: so if it doesn't, we will have to cherry-pick the 32 most used stations for rerandomisation to happen? 09:34:21 <Elyon> s/stations/cargoes 09:35:07 <Elyon> planetmaker: train loading/unloading is what I'm currently using, but why does it depend on this? 09:35:29 <Elyon> also: progress :D 09:37:06 <planetmaker> Elyon, did you try a cargo translation table? 09:37:27 <Elyon> planetmaker: we have one 09:38:03 <planetmaker> if you use a CTT you should be able to use the entry number in the CTT for the triggers there, thus re-randomize all used cargoes, no problem 09:38:03 <Elyon> planetmaker: but that translates beyond the 32 /first/ cargo IDs I can enable triggers for in the property 09:38:58 <Elyon> what if the entry number is 0x20? 09:39:06 <Elyon> I can't set bit 32 of a double word :p 09:39:28 <planetmaker> Either we talk past eachother or I think you mis-understand how a CTT works 09:39:37 <Elyon> very most likely the latter 09:39:49 <Elyon> the cargo translation table assigns new cargo IDs, as I understand it? 09:39:50 <planetmaker> The CTT makes sure that the available cargoes are always mapped to the bits available for the triggers 09:39:54 <Elyon> OH 09:40:01 <planetmaker> whereever they are in the CTT 09:40:09 <planetmaker> or so I think... hm 09:40:11 * Elyon headdesks 09:40:15 <planetmaker> or I mis-understand :) 09:40:17 <Elyon> sorry, I didn't realise that 09:40:19 <planetmaker> this is tricky 09:40:45 <planetmaker> the problem you'll have is, that you probably want to know which bit is which cargo 09:40:55 <Elyon> nah 09:41:07 <Elyon> well, that will be a problem probably 09:41:16 <planetmaker> if you don't care about the cargoes... just re-randomize all, I think 09:41:24 <Elyon> that's the plan :D 09:41:25 <planetmaker> and tell me if I'm wrong with what I just said :) 09:41:40 <Elyon> I will if it becomes an issue. I would test it but I'm in the middle of a huge codechange 09:41:45 <Elyon> or feature, actually 09:41:56 <Elyon> I could of course commit and branch out 09:42:17 <Elyon> planetmaker: nah, will do later. But I'll keep you posted! 09:42:18 <planetmaker> atomic commits make for easy understanding ;) 09:42:29 <Elyon> planetmaker: I'd like my commits to compile 09:42:38 <Elyon> and I usually compile after every action :) 09:42:43 <Elyon> or at least thereabouts 09:43:23 <Elyon> good rule of thumb, that, though 09:43:25 <Elyon> thanks :) 09:44:55 <planetmaker> well. having commits compile would seem sensible, yes :) 09:46:04 <V453000> nothing is needed if you have cats 09:46:05 <V453000> and beer 09:48:23 <planetmaker> miow 09:53:04 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #93-push: SUCCESS in 22 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/93/ 10:54:00 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #94-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/94/ 11:06:28 <Elyon> performance-wise, am I better off saving my reused variable lookups in temporary storage? (newgrf, nfo, etc.) 11:07:17 <V453000> oh yeah it would also be nice not to make the game eat cpu like crazy :D:D 11:07:57 <Elyon> OKAY SHIT 11:08:02 <Elyon> I can't not do that 11:08:05 <Elyon> :< 11:08:16 <planetmaker> Elyon, temporary storage is only valid during one call of the chain 11:08:16 <Elyon> (I kid :D so far it's running flawlessly but I haven't benchmarked 11:08:23 <Elyon> planetmaker: it only needs to be 11:10:01 <Elyon> I'm just wondering whether to do sequential `60 00` (read cargo waiting variable), or I'm better off doing a `sto 1A 20 \dxF0` to store it in register F0 and then check that with `7D F0` instead of `60 00` 11:10:14 <Elyon> it's minimal, just wondering what the best practice is :) 11:12:21 <Elyon> ) 11:12:54 *** avdg has quit IRC 11:13:25 *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:34:36 <planetmaker> use what suits you, I'd say. Probably depends :) 11:37:39 <Elyon> I saved a s operation by just using the variable again directly :) 11:38:45 *** yorick has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:39:10 <Elyon> but all these random bits I need to find :( Now I need to somehow shuffle 16 registers 11:39:21 <Elyon> shuf 12:30:33 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 12:31:10 *** Supercheese has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:21:04 <Elyon> I can properly shuffle 16 registers using 48 bytes, but that's (at least) 256 advanced varaction2 operations :/ 15:23:41 <Elyon> err 48 bits 15:29:00 <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'shuffle 16 registers'? Why? 15:29:31 <planetmaker> if it's about displaying a random sprite, just use the tile-specific random bits and choose one of 16 from that. Is that not enough? 15:29:39 <planetmaker> Different tiles there are totally independent. 15:29:39 <Elyon> no, it isn't :p 15:29:49 <planetmaker> Or how many 'randomness' does it need? 15:29:52 <Elyon> many 15:29:55 <Elyon> I have 16 subtiles 15:30:02 <planetmaker> subtiles? 15:30:08 <Elyon> minitiles in the tile 15:30:19 <planetmaker> sounds totally over-engineered 15:30:39 <Elyon> could very well be 15:31:05 <planetmaker> 16 variations for a single tile type is quite enough. Give users a choice to more precisely place what they want 15:31:11 <planetmaker> They'll start asking for that anyway 15:31:17 <Elyon> why not both? :D 15:31:35 <planetmaker> because random and choose are the two opposite ends of what one can do 15:31:51 <Elyon> 16 variations is not enough when you have 32 cargoes and 16 zones for those cargoes per tile 15:32:22 <Elyon> :D 15:32:52 <Elyon> I agree it is completely unnecessary - but the finished result will speak for itself when the time comes :D 15:32:53 <planetmaker> difficult with cargoes. 15:33:14 <planetmaker> and I see the point in those 15:33:57 <Elyon> plus, 4 (or even 5) variations /per/ cargo type as well to choose from to avoid uniformity 15:34:15 <Elyon> there's lots of reasons for random here :D but yeah probably totally overengineered 15:34:18 <planetmaker> needs 7 bits 15:34:28 <planetmaker> 5+2 15:35:15 <Elyon> 16 zones each with a choice of 4 variations of the 8 most abundant cargoes, plus hide flags for each of those zones 15:36:11 <Elyon> of course you could make do with (a lot) less 15:36:28 <Elyon> but when it's possible to have pseudotrue variation, why not give it a shot? 15:36:45 <Elyon> :D :D 15:38:58 <planetmaker> that's way more variation then. 5 bit cargo, 4*16 = 6 bit tile 15:39:09 <planetmaker> that's 1.5 bytes randomness 15:39:27 <planetmaker> or 2048 choices 15:40:26 <Elyon> 5 bit cargo /per zone/ 15:40:36 <Elyon> well, no, 3 bit cargo per zone 15:40:57 <planetmaker> you want to show different cargoes on *one* tile? 15:41:03 * Elyon nods 15:42:50 <Elyon> so 2 bits per variation * 16 zones = 32 bits, plus hide flags for each zone = 48 bits 15:42:56 <Elyon> and that's not even considering different cargoes 15:43:28 <Elyon> though some xor'ing and bitrotations can make adequately random-looking stuff :) 15:44:12 <planetmaker> ? 15:44:52 <planetmaker> I don't think that you can adequately show any cargo on 16x8 pixels 15:45:12 <planetmaker> which is the size you have when using a 4x4 grid for a tile 15:45:35 <Elyon> well, V453000 has generously provided exactly that 15:46:36 <planetmaker> I really suggest: get done first a variation by cargo, one per tile. Then deal with making it more diverse 15:46:39 <planetmaker> one step at a time 15:46:58 <Elyon> I did do that 15:47:04 <Elyon> now I'm making it more diverse 15:47:54 <Elyon> thanks for the suggestion to do one step at a time, though. I tend to get overly ambitious with my feature additions ^-^; 15:48:26 <planetmaker> I'm prone to that myself :P 15:48:33 <Elyon> ah :p 15:48:40 <Elyon> well you know from experience then! 15:49:10 * Elyon will probably hit some arbitrary limit to the number of adv. var2 operations per action 15:49:38 <planetmaker> the limit is 255 15:49:56 <planetmaker> there are 255 IDs you can use. you can re-use them. but not within one chain 15:50:16 <planetmaker> I *think* 15:50:51 <Elyon> oh, not IDs 15:50:58 <Elyon> just operations in a single var2 action 15:50:59 <Elyon> :D 15:51:29 <Elyon> also <3 for making num-entries for spritesets extended byte 15:51:30 <planetmaker> yes. but with NFO that's the case that you need like one ID per varaction2 15:51:43 <planetmaker> or is that extended byte? 15:51:48 <Elyon> nah 15:52:23 <Elyon> one ID per varaction2 is fine but I only need like 5-10 varaction2s 15:52:30 <Elyon> however, each of them are pretty heavy 15:52:42 <Elyon> storing and reading from registers etc. 15:58:10 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:58:27 <Elyon> okay this approach is not good: I'd have to use ~2048 adv.varaction2 operations 15:59:01 <Elyon> I guess this is what the /p/ is for in pnfo :D 16:10:18 <Elyon> w 16:10:23 <Elyon> whoops 16:18:30 <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #239-nightlies: SUCCESS in 45 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/nml/239/ 16:47:43 <DevZone> Project Dutch Tramset build #26-push: SUCCESS in 15 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/dutchtramset/26/ 16:48:54 <DevZone> Project Dutch Trainset build #70-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 10 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/dutchtrains/70/ 16:49:15 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #95-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/95/ 16:49:44 <DevZone> Project 2ccts build #20-push: SUCCESS in 29 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/2ccts/20/ 16:50:03 <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #204-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 43 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/xussrset/204/ 17:22:02 <DevZone> Project Japanese Buildings build #100-nightlies: SUCCESS in 16 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/jpbuild/100/ 17:33:52 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:33:55 <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure - Rails build #214-nightlies: SUCCESS in 8 min 8 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/frissrails/214/ 17:48:14 <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #661-nightlies: SUCCESS in 1 min 25 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/661/ 18:03:36 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #96-push: FAILURE in 3.2 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/96/ 18:09:53 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:15:07 *** gelignite has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:16:13 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:33:28 <Alberth> zephyris seems quite busy in the industries :) 18:36:58 <planetmaker> quite, yeah :) 18:37:59 * Alberth needs a cunning plan to get the industries working 18:42:00 <Alberth> I figured out why my aquifer pump graphics are all broken, just stupid using the wrong pictures at the wrong place :p 18:43:19 <planetmaker> :) 18:43:28 <planetmaker> it's an easy mistake 18:43:58 <Alberth> aka don't use rows of pictures, when building stages are drawn in columns :) 18:44:17 <planetmaker> oh! haha :) 18:44:21 <Alberth> took me a day to realize it though :) 18:47:00 <Alberth> I suspect there is a bug in the cargos, tbh, and the closure only happens because the industries don't produce anything 18:50:35 <planetmaker> hm... 18:51:49 <Alberth> no error output in ./openttd -d grf=7 :( 18:53:56 <Alberth> nforenum also doesn't complain, other than about lack of string parameters 19:05:49 <Alberth> ha! 19:06:15 <Alberth> just add double quotes around the cargo name 19:06:21 <Alberth> stupid nml :( 19:07:27 <Alberth> ok, industries still close after one month, so it's something else 19:07:30 <planetmaker> oh... double vs single makes difference? 19:07:41 <Alberth> double versus nothing 19:08:11 <Alberth> - cargo_label: GOOD; 19:08:11 <Alberth> + cargo_label: "GOOD"; 19:08:42 <Alberth> nml should have screamed about this, imho 19:10:43 <frosch123> aren't they the same? 19:10:59 <frosch123> " are required for non alphanumeric labels or somethin? 19:11:20 <Alberth> former doesn't give me cargoes in the industry after building, the latter does 19:12:45 <Alberth> it doesn't prevent openttd from closing all my new industries either way, after 1 month :) 19:14:16 <planetmaker> does that go for all industries? 19:14:43 <Alberth> only all my airmines and all aquifer pumps 19:14:49 <planetmaker> ah... I see what most industries look like :D 19:15:05 <Alberth> I have no other industries coded so far :) 19:19:53 <planetmaker> hm. No output cargo is not good :D 19:21:16 <planetmaker> Alberth, the cargoes don't have a label defined?! 19:21:35 <planetmaker> oh... they do. and I'm blind 19:24:46 <planetmaker> Alberth, still, try to put the labels in the cargo definitions in "" 19:24:57 <planetmaker> in the FEAT_CARGO property blocks 19:25:23 <Alberth> I did above, and that gives me cargos in the industries 19:25:25 <planetmaker> then my aquifer pump gets at least the water cargo 19:25:31 <planetmaker> but still 0 output 19:25:31 <Alberth> here too 19:25:50 <planetmaker> oh, you meant in cargo definition 19:26:23 <Alberth> newgrf debugger also gives water as output cargo, so that's good 19:27:54 <planetmaker> min_cargo_distr: 16; <-- raising that increases output 19:28:48 <planetmaker> but still gone in March 19:32:08 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3064/ made one airmine survive at feb 1 19:32:15 <Alberth> possibly more 19:33:40 <Alberth> and one pump also survived (unchanged) 19:33:58 <Alberth> so it may be a matter of starting values and chance? :) 19:34:58 <Alberth> oh, all airmines survived even 19:35:37 <planetmaker> chance definitely plays a role there 19:38:42 <planetmaker> with default industries, usually all industries die within one or two decades 19:38:48 <planetmaker> (if you don't do a thing) 19:43:56 <Alberth> I can live with that :) 19:44:15 <Alberth> one month is just a tad too short to build a working station :) 19:56:20 *** skyem123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:57:01 <V453000> planetmaker: what do if tortoise says no suitable response from remote hg upon pushing to cats? 19:57:10 <V453000> iz it possible that the key needs to be added per projecT? :) 19:57:14 <V453000> I havent pushed to cats yet 19:58:40 <V453000> oh maybe this 19:58:52 <V453000> hm no not yet :d 20:00:29 <planetmaker> wrong URL? 20:00:36 <planetmaker> ssh://hg@hg.o.o/cats 20:00:58 <V453000> oh yeah I had something wrong :d no idea why didnt I copy it from nuts in the first place .. did now, sorry 20:01:03 <V453000> thanks (: 20:01:59 <planetmaker> np 20:11:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:11:48 <DevZone> Yippee, build fixed! 20:11:49 <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #97-push: FIXED in 24 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/97/ 21:00:33 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:05:55 *** skyem123 has quit IRC 21:21:35 <Alberth> hmm, it helps if you also include the file in the build :p 21:28:21 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:29:19 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:38:25 *** Alberth has quit IRC 21:44:01 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:44:19 <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #9-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 54 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/opengfx-mars/9/ 21:54:55 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 23:00:51 *** gelignite has quit IRC