Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 22nd April 2014:
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00:04:15  *** Supercheese has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
06:30:00  <Brot6> Bug #6878: No steel wagon in temperate climate XplanetmakerX @
06:36:02  <V453000> Alberth how dare you not use nuts
06:36:04  <V453000> ^
06:36:06  <V453000> ´D
06:36:10  <V453000> =D
06:48:30  <V453000> planetmaker: YETI description sanely fixed (:
06:48:46  *** Supercheese has quit IRC
09:22:05  <Brot6> Bug #6882 (New): 0.5.0: Improper source bundle XplanetmakerX @
10:05:25  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #113-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 14 sec:
10:43:06  *** yorick has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:33:21  <Brot6> Support #6883 (New): Require stable NML for releases XplanetmakerX @
12:18:28  <Brot6> Revision 1299:a9ab047dafd9: Fixed A380-800 sprites XGeorgeX @
12:24:10  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX build #134-push: SUCCESS in 5 min 41 sec:
12:39:42  <Brot6> Bug #6884 (New): grfcodec 6.0.4 XSnailX @
12:49:29  <Brot6> Revision 1060:6883f5698948: Change/Fix (425e3a719210): [Makefile] Re-introduce target 'clean-gfx'... XplanetmakerX @
12:49:29  <Brot6> Revision 1061:546b7468cfbf: Fix (425e3a719210): [Makefile] Install into the baseset dir, not the ... XplanetmakerX @
12:59:04  <Brot6> Bug #6884: grfcodec 6.0.4 XplanetmakerX @
12:59:33  <Brot6> Bug #6884: grfcodec 6.0.4 XplanetmakerX @
13:01:23  <Brot6> Bug #6884: grfcodec 6.0.4 XplanetmakerX @
13:06:22  <Brot6> Bug #6884 (New): faulty reporting of reading beyond image bounds XSnailX @
13:06:22  <Brot6> Bug #6884: faulty reporting of reading beyond image bounds XplanetmakerX @
13:28:21  <Brot6> Bug #6884: faulty reporting of reading beyond image bounds XplanetmakerX @
13:50:36  <Brot6> XV453000X @
13:53:00  <planetmaker> you should start comitting, V453000 instead of uploading zips ;)
13:54:13  <V453000> commiting zips is not very useful is it
13:55:06  <V453000> if I commited the whole project folder it would be stupidly huge as I have tons of textures there, the archived scene in zip only contains the necessary things
13:56:21  <planetmaker> of course not comitting zips. But the pngs or whatever it contains :)
13:56:43  <planetmaker> as they make up the sprites, no?
13:56:59  <V453000> I dont upload any sprites yet, I have the camera presets ready but didnt render any serious sprites yet
13:57:15  <V453000> I only have preview renders of whole industries which I put to files so far too
13:57:48  <V453000> it is all in one scene so I will just render it all at once when suitable :)
13:57:59  <V453000> probably after I have some basic outline of all of the industries
13:59:07  <planetmaker> well, what I would do, render the scene just like you show them (in the proper size) - and just cut the sprites from that scene
13:59:35  <planetmaker> define yourself a decent canvas which allows for the max height you might need. Surround it by a bit blue. that's it :)
14:00:09  <planetmaker> and rinse and repeat for the ground tile versions and construction stages :D
14:00:11  <V453000> I do it the same way as zephyris did for industries, animated camera with blocking model
14:01:09  <V453000> easily re-renderably
14:01:11  <V453000> e
14:02:42  <V453000> atm I am getting a tiny bit of alpha at the edges, which is quite ass so far ... but adjusting the cameras by a few cm solves it ... will do that when it is coded in teh game so I can see the effect (I have 1 tile 10x10m)
14:09:11  <V453000> idk how blender does it, if it saves textures inside of the .blend files?
14:09:23  <V453000> cause zbase doesnt seem to have any textures folder
14:10:47  <V453000> but so far I think the best way with max is just if I archive the scene, as it creates a zip that anybody can download, put in any folder, extract there, and it simply works the same way it does for me
14:11:17  <V453000> just uploading every version as such to the Files looks optimal to me
14:12:14  <V453000> all of it being in one scene is very helpful in that regard
14:14:35  <planetmaker> the source to any revision should contain the max files which were used to create the scene
14:14:44  <planetmaker> no need to zip there anything, though
14:14:58  <V453000> max scenes link to textures and everything
14:15:04  <V453000> not having those breaks everything
14:15:15  <planetmaker> well, they should be part, too
14:15:28  <planetmaker> source is what is needed to re-create it :)
14:15:29  <V453000> yes, which happens automatically with the zip
14:15:33  <V453000> I know.
14:15:45  <planetmaker> zip is something you create from the folder I assume
14:16:10  <V453000> no, 3ds max creates it on its own with a special Archive feature - it automatically creates the zip with all files it links to
14:16:22  <V453000> when you unzip it, it unzips in one folder and the links automatically work
14:17:00  <planetmaker> btw, all textures for zbase are in the repo
14:17:03  <planetmaker>
14:17:04  <V453000> I think if I just Archive the scene after every release (or more often), it should work fine
14:17:20  <V453000> aha didnt see them, thanks :)
14:17:25  <planetmaker> Actually I don't think you should archive it. Just import the working dir into the repo
14:17:45  <planetmaker> "with everything" (except the generated stuff)
14:17:49  <V453000> thing is I have tons of textures so the working dir is like 200gb large
14:18:03  <planetmaker> *G*bytes?
14:18:03  <V453000> and I totally dont feel like extracting the used ones as that is changing
14:18:06  <V453000> yes
14:19:17  <V453000> I think source of one zip file per version is most convenient for anybody to use
14:19:51  <planetmaker> most convenient would be repo-checkout and just re-render, things ready-setup
14:20:17  <planetmaker> and not the additional need to go through dozens of zips which are not properly versioned
14:20:39  <V453000> well then they shall be properly versioned
14:20:52  <V453000> can checkout zips with tags aif everything else is insufficient
14:21:12  <planetmaker> but it really can't be so difficult to know which textures you use?
14:21:18  <planetmaker> and only checking those which you do
14:21:35  <V453000> at that current moment, no, but I often change them
14:21:45  <planetmaker> well, so they change
14:22:00  <planetmaker> but that's better than zip bundles
14:22:01  <V453000> every time moving them from folder to folder and having a total mess in it is super inconvenient for me
14:22:14  <planetmaker> why moving from folder to folder?
14:22:35  <V453000> cause I assume I would have to create a new folder with only used textures
14:22:42  <planetmaker> no
14:22:51  <planetmaker> you can simply add those which you use
14:23:01  <planetmaker> and skip adding those which you don#t
14:23:11  <V453000> which already is a lot :|
14:23:21  <planetmaker> the zip files won't make it less.
14:23:33  <planetmaker> they would make it more. As it duplicates for the amount of industries
14:23:35  <V453000> no but they dont add any work for me
14:23:42  <planetmaker> thus the zip collection would be 10x as much or so to download
14:24:04  <planetmaker> adding a file doesn't either... just leave it where it is and add it...
14:24:09  <V453000> I will see how find-able the textures are when I complete all of the industries, until then I will just use zips for my own use
14:25:03  <V453000> but yeah downloading textures with every version isnt ideal
14:25:21  <planetmaker> that's the point
14:25:27  <V453000> I know
14:25:32  <planetmaker> dunno how the file system structure is...
14:25:41  <planetmaker> but wouldn't like zbase's one work?
14:25:59  <planetmaker> where the models supposedly know their relative path to textures?
14:26:34  <V453000> not sure
14:26:52  <planetmaker> Dunno, can you explain how it works, how the file system structure looks like on which you work?
14:26:57  <planetmaker> Maybe I can make a suggestion then?
14:27:19  <planetmaker> which is easy to use and all
14:27:37  <planetmaker> maybe a screenshot or so of explorer where things are?
14:27:39  <V453000> well max scene generally has one folder in which is a mess of like 15 sub-folders with scene assets, like render presets, render output, ...
14:27:56  <V453000> question is how many of those sub-folders are actually needed
14:28:24  <planetmaker> ok, but everything is *inside* these folders or sub-folders?
14:28:33  <planetmaker> including all textures and shit?
14:28:34  <V453000> doesnt have to
14:28:38  <V453000> but should, yes
14:29:07  <planetmaker> also including the unused stuff?
14:29:11  <planetmaker> or is that elsewhere?
14:29:33  <V453000> sure, also unused stuff
14:29:41  <planetmaker> I mean the 200GB texture collection? Ok
14:30:04  <V453000> most of the textures are elsewhere in my case atm
14:30:13  <V453000> which is why the archive is great because it automatically collects them
14:30:37  <V453000> hm
14:31:25  <V453000> im wondering if I am even allowed to release the textures under gplv2 since those are bought textures from
14:31:28  <V453000> have to take a look
14:32:59  <planetmaker> Well. You are not allowed most likely from what I recall from cgtextures
14:33:00  <V453000> hm
14:33:01  <V453000> no
14:33:19  <V453000>  It is NOT permitted to: - Release the Textures or derivative products under Open Source Licences
14:33:23  <V453000> well that is our answer then
14:33:46  <V453000> and I am not using textures from anywhere else
14:34:46  <V453000> :|
14:36:07  <planetmaker> " - Release the Textures or derivative products under Open Source Licences" <-- I wonder how that can be interpreted
14:36:25  <planetmaker> that actually can even mean that the sprites cannot be distributed open-source either
14:36:46  <V453000> exactly
14:37:31  <Brot6> Revision 128:5bc50aa59944: Change: graphics for Thunder bus XandythenorthX @
14:38:24  <V453000> well then ... 3ds max is a horrible program to use for open source anyway
14:38:58  <planetmaker> it's a tool. So... well
14:39:49  <V453000> im sorry but changing from my stuff is way too inconvenient to do for me
14:40:23  <planetmaker> there's lots of CC-BY-SA textures, also taken from cgtextures but re-licensed in the 0 A.D. repository
14:40:41  <planetmaker> (which are the textures I used for pota-ghat)
14:40:47  <V453000> I honestly dont feel like digging into any of that wtf legal stuff
14:40:49  <planetmaker> well, very few
14:42:16  <planetmaker> yes, that legal stuff is many things. But joyful for sure is not one of them
14:42:27  <V453000> indeed
14:43:35  <planetmaker> but you should be sure that you actually may release anything using those textures. I honestly don't understand their terms. They're not clear to me at all under which conditions I actually *may* use them
14:44:07  <V453000> you mean I can upload at least rendered sprites?
14:44:19  <V453000> thing is they arent very gpl if they aint having the source
14:44:32  <planetmaker> yeah, I know. Make it CC-BY
14:44:44  <planetmaker> and provide source as much as you dare
14:45:12  <planetmaker> though... CC-BY is also a form of open-source. But it doesn't mean you have to provide what you don't want or can't.
14:45:27  <V453000> hm
14:45:33  <planetmaker> it means, take, be happy and that's it. If you distribute or modify, give credits
14:45:36  <V453000> well not providing textures also is quite worthless
14:45:49  <planetmaker> not entirely. The models are worth a lot, too
14:45:58  <V453000> somewhat
14:46:40  <Taede> ello
14:46:47  <planetmaker> hi Taede
14:47:04  <planetmaker> V453000, I really don't understand their license terms. I read them a few times in the past. Each time without success really
14:47:21  <planetmaker> In case of doubt you really need to ask whether you may publish what you want
14:47:23  <planetmaker> dunno
14:47:29  <V453000> I will consider things
14:47:45  <V453000> for now it is just my work versions so the topic isnt _as_ hot, but yeah
14:48:03  <V453000> I removed the zips from the devzone for now
14:48:09  <planetmaker> I've no issue, if you release the stuff in the yeti repo under cc-by. Means not all textures, alas. But sprites
14:48:23  <planetmaker> possibly
14:48:33  <planetmaker> hm, indeed, those zips might be problematic, too. Sucks big time :(
14:48:43  <V453000> yeah
14:49:12  <V453000> well okay
14:49:23  <V453000> I could then release max files under cc-by
14:49:42  <V453000> which isnt very useful but honestly the likelihood that anybody is going to use my models isnt very high (:
14:50:20  <planetmaker> maybe not. But even if it helps people to see how things are done / can be done, that's worth it already
14:50:28  <V453000> true
14:50:40  <V453000> the blend files from zbase helped me too even though I havent used anything from them
14:50:51  <V453000> camera/lights/whatever is important already
14:52:51  <planetmaker> ^^
14:57:34  <planetmaker> <-- is the repo with the textures.
14:57:35  <Webster> Title: 0ad/binaries/data/mods/public/art at master · 0ad/0ad · GitHub (at
14:58:22  <planetmaker> <-- the license, effectively CC-BY-SA for the textures
14:58:30  <V453000> yeah reading it
14:59:24  <V453000> ok ... now I go home from work but lets see how it goes later (: for now, thanks for the conversation and see you :)
14:59:32  <planetmaker> bye
14:59:38  <planetmaker> I'm about to head home, too :)
15:34:38  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #309-push: FAILURE in 43 sec:
15:36:53  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #310-push: STILL FAILING in 35 sec:
15:40:38  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #83-test: FAILURE in 38 sec:
15:40:48  <DevZone> Project Townnames - German build #60-test: SUCCESS in 10 sec:
15:40:49  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #311-push: NOW UNSTABLE in 1 min 37 sec:
15:42:24  <planetmaker> hm
15:46:47  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #114-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 14 sec:
16:07:33  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #84: STILL FAILING in 0.2 sec:
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16:14:18  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #312-push: FAILURE in 3.8 sec:
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16:21:53  <DevZone> Project Japanese Buildings build #178-nightlies: SUCCESS in 16 sec:
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16:25:32  <planetmaker> o/
16:25:52  <Alberth> hi hi
16:26:58  * Alberth wondered about the opengfx+industries problem; would it be possible to detect whether the default vehicles are used?
16:27:58  <planetmaker> very difficult. It's actually an OpenTTD issue more than an issue of this NewGRF
16:28:29  <Alberth> ok
16:29:03  <planetmaker> OpenTTD should (in NewGRF utopia) check for vehicle being able to carry each cargo. And stuff being available at starting date
16:29:04  <Alberth> I should consider another attempt at detecting "your game has cargoes that you cannot transport" thus :)
16:29:34  <V453000> OpenGFX+ industries must disable when no nuts is loaded!
16:29:36  <V453000> :D
16:29:39  <planetmaker> :D
16:29:57  <Alberth> that would be nuts+industries :p
16:30:05  <V453000> :d
16:32:35  <Alberth> another option could be to clearly label the steel as a different cargo, eg IRON or so
16:33:13  <planetmaker> That would require translations etc
16:33:34  <planetmaker> It's only the ID which actually changes - of probably more cargoes than just steel
16:33:44  <V453000> just use sane train set :D
16:33:52  <planetmaker> And the default vehicles are much less smart than the dumbest vehicle newgrf
16:34:03  <planetmaker> or 2nd dumbest :P
16:34:05  <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure - Rails build #292-nightlies: SUCCESS in 8 min 24 sec:
16:34:14  <Alberth> :)
16:34:19  <V453000> me is wondering which is 1st
16:34:33  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #86-test: STILL FAILING in 28 sec:
16:34:34  <planetmaker> 1st is one which uses so deprecated cargo-support that it also fails ;)
16:34:39  <Alberth> empty vehicle set that disables default vehicles :p
16:34:44  <DevZone> Project Townnames - German build #61-test: SUCCESS in 10 sec:
16:34:45  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #315-push: NOW UNSTABLE in 9 min 33 sec:
16:34:53  <V453000> :D
16:35:08  <planetmaker> hm... nmlc is buggy...
16:35:23  <planetmaker> see opengfx-mars
16:35:34  <Alberth> well, it's officially unstable, apparently :p
16:35:39  <planetmaker> :)
16:35:59  <planetmaker> I don't dare to declare it failure automatically. The test newgrfs could be buggy instead :)
16:38:40  <Alberth> you didn't add the python3 version yet?
16:41:15  <DevZone> Project road-hog build #161-nightlies: SUCCESS in 39 sec:
16:41:35  <planetmaker> no, I didn't.
16:41:39  <planetmaker> That honour will be yours :)
16:41:54  <planetmaker> but I would want to ensure we can build it before we do that
16:42:26  <planetmaker> also, I'll soon release 0.3.1... the source bundle is somewhat buggy. No nml/__version__ file included :P
16:43:10  <planetmaker> blathijs complained today that he cannot build both, nml and opengfx. I messed up, it seems
16:43:41  <planetmaker> but only packaging, mostly
16:44:00  <planetmaker> I'll have to amend somewhat for that, though, too
16:45:54  <Alberth> fixed that problem
16:46:43  <planetmaker> mars one?
16:46:47  <Alberth> apparently, "%i" % ...   was not converted to "{:i}".format(..)
16:46:47  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #87-test: STILL FAILING in 31 sec:
16:47:02  <DevZone> Project Townnames - German build #62-test: SUCCESS in 15 sec:
16:47:03  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #316-push: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 min 42 sec:
16:48:34  <Alberth> build #87 is using an old nmlc
16:48:42  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #843-nightlies: SUCCESS in 1 min 39 sec:
16:48:43  <planetmaker> yes... I wonder why :)
16:49:18  <DevZone> Project Dutch Trainset build #139-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 32 sec:
16:51:36  <DevZone> Yippee, build fixed!
16:51:37  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #88-push: FIXED in 2 min 20 sec:
16:57:18  <Alberth> magic :p
16:58:03  <planetmaker> that was manually triggered :P
16:58:31  <planetmaker> I have an idea why NML wasn't updated... probably tripped myself between commit hook and jenkins build script :P
17:02:10  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #115-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 16 sec:
17:05:04  <V453000> RGB 24 bit (16 million colours) is what 32bpp technically means, right?
17:06:06  <planetmaker> no :)
17:06:18  <planetmaker> rgb 24 bit colour + alpha channel 8 bit = 32bit
17:07:03  <planetmaker> rgb itself knows no transparency
17:08:43  <V453000> y
17:08:51  <V453000> that is what I needed to know :)
17:09:00  <planetmaker> :)
17:09:00  <V453000> 24RGB png with alpha then is correct :)
17:09:05  <planetmaker> yup
17:10:00  <V453000> thanks (:
17:10:21  <V453000> correctly mapped hole in the ground =D
17:10:37  <Brot6> IOM_v4_01.png XV453000X @
17:11:05  <planetmaker> ho ho. Not bad
17:11:17  <planetmaker> but are yetis that tidy?
17:11:38  <planetmaker> I would expect a crater-like, irregular hole :P
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17:12:54  <planetmaker> 4x4 tiles in 4x zoom?
17:16:35  <Alberth> nice, the darker colour makes it much more clear where the hole is.
17:17:28  <V453000> 4x4 in 4x yes :) the actual model could change and there will be a lot of further details, this was just material test :)
17:17:35  <Alberth> shouldn't there be ramps?
17:17:38  <V453000> exactly
17:17:39  <V453000> plus that
17:18:05  <V453000> but it is a good-enough-for-now base of iron ore mine =D
17:18:11  <V453000> onwards to animal farm
17:19:34  <planetmaker> definitely :)
17:23:13  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #89: FAILURE in 0.23 sec:
17:23:14  <DevZone> Project skye-rail build #58: STILL FAILING in 35 ms:
17:23:15  <DevZone> Project DevZone script update build #18-push: STILL UNSTABLE in 5.7 sec:
17:23:42  <planetmaker> wtf... why?
17:26:40  <DevZone> Project opengfx-mars build #90: STILL FAILING in 3 ms:
17:26:41  <DevZone> Project skye-rail build #59: STILL FAILING in 2 ms:
17:26:42  <DevZone> Project DevZone script update build #19-push: STILL UNSTABLE in 3.1 sec:
17:27:10  <planetmaker> hmpf hmpf
17:27:59  <planetmaker> and why only those two? :S
17:30:31  <V453000> it evul
17:30:40  <planetmaker> very much so!
17:31:06  <planetmaker> my collegues will be sorry. Volleyball soon. I'll smash the ball at them the harder the more it annoys me now :P
17:31:46  <Brot6> Revision 1300:cd371a4b6502: purcharge list fix XRvP93X @
17:31:46  <Brot6> Revision 1301:a667fd9f95aa: Fixed An124 XRvP93X @
17:34:22  <planetmaker> anyway... sports. see you later. I want to see a yeti farm when I come back :P
17:34:37  <V453000> byez
17:34:40  <V453000> yeti farm incoming
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18:50:34  <Brot6> meh-farms.png XandythenorthX @
19:04:12  <Brot6> YETI_industries_20_ANIMAL_FARM.max XV453000X @
19:07:19  <Alberth> hmm,  .max file, can't get any bigger, I guess :p
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19:31:40  <Brot6> Revision 215:0681c42c23ed: Add: [compiler] Dedicated (post) build scripts for NML XplanetmakerX @
19:31:40  <Brot6> Revision 216:f95dc02f7dbd: Fix: [compiler] Execute permission for NML build scripts XplanetmakerX @
19:31:40  <Brot6> Revision 217:c90456a5e261: Change: [compiler] Also state when NML isn't updated on CF XplanetmakerX @
19:40:11  <Brot6> Revision 803:abbe549cf435: Update: Translations XeintsX @
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20:29:13  <planetmaker> can I haz screeny of yetizzzz farmzzz, pleazzze?
20:43:02  <Brot6> cdist waybill test XandythenorthX @
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