Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 23rd June 2014:
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16:49:25  <DevZone> Project 2ccts build #167-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 27 sec:
16:50:52  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #326-push: SUCCESS in 3 min 26 sec:
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17:23:13  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #152-push: STILL FAILING in 26 sec:
17:24:31  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #153-push: STILL FAILING in 17 sec:
17:36:13  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #154-push: STILL FAILING in 17 sec:
17:39:45  <Rubidium> <- anyone want to add their own ranges to that?
17:41:13  <DevZone> Yippee, build fixed!
17:41:14  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #155-push: FIXED in 1 min 52 sec:
18:02:47  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I don't think we should promote claiming of 65k ranges of grfIDs
18:03:30  <planetmaker> 256 IDs per person are way enough
18:03:44  <planetmaker> besides, I don't have a range :)
18:06:42  <Rubidium> planetmaker: feel free to change that part of the specs ;)
18:07:39  <Rubidium> but please wait till the current storm has ended
18:08:36  <Alberth> 256 ids seems reasonable to me
18:10:26  <juzza1> is the convention of increasing the GRFID by one for a new version needed? was it useful in the past?
18:10:30  <juzza1> never did that myself
18:12:13  <Alberth> not very useful, unless you expect them to be used side-by-side, I guess
18:12:24  <planetmaker> juzza1, it's not needed and very much discouraged IMHO. In the past it was useful when there was no action14 and your NewGRF was incompatible with previous versions
18:13:08  <planetmaker> now you just use action14 and set min_compatible_version appropriately
18:13:14  <juzza1> so that should probably not be encouraged in the wiki
18:13:25  <planetmaker> yes, should not
18:13:42  <planetmaker> actually action14 should rather be mentioned for that :)
18:36:47  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I think we should change it now in the writing there (maybe with a hint that those 'old' ranges exist. Otherwise we'll have again have to face accusations of blackmail later on
18:44:13  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I think the grfID section should read something like that now. Revert, if you think that doesn't go down well (now).
19:05:58  <Rubidium> planetmaker: technically andy is using whole 64k blocks for a single NewGRF
19:06:52  <planetmaker> not sure he ever claimed that block. There are a few IDs for FIRS, for sure, but...
19:06:56  <planetmaker> pointless anyway :)
19:10:28  <Rubidium> I kinda claimed it for him ;)
19:11:19  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:13:51  <planetmaker> yes, I saw that. But I think he has the same grfID policy as myself: none. Or a per-newgrf-basis
19:14:28  <andythenorth> what are we talking about? o_O
19:21:15  <planetmaker> your giant range of grfIDs which rubi claimed for your FIRS :P
19:21:56  <planetmaker> @ andythenorth
19:22:38  <andythenorth> yeah, now that we have action 14 savegame compatibility, I *definitely* am going to be changing grfid often
19:22:43  <andythenorth> like at least, never
19:22:50  <andythenorth> unless there’s a really different v2
19:22:55  <andythenorth> and then I’ll probably change the name
19:23:08  <andythenorth> grfid hoarding is fricking stupid
19:23:19  <andythenorth> grfid is mostly about not breaking the bananas entry
19:24:10  <andythenorth> the “creator’s” initials route is great for auteurs, solitary genii, one-man-bands, lone-wolves, megalomaniacs and Little Napoleons
19:24:19  <andythenorth> it somewhat fails when there is >1 contributor
19:24:33  <andythenorth> I guess the initials of the project manager could be used
19:24:39  <andythenorth> as that is the most important role by fart
19:24:42  <andythenorth> far? *
19:25:05  <planetmaker> fart also fits the sentence ;)
19:25:19  <andythenorth> the project manager does biggest farts
19:25:23  <andythenorth> so is most important
19:25:28  <planetmaker> ^^
19:27:01  <andythenorth> well at least the thread has provided soapboxes for those who like soapboxing
19:30:20  <andythenorth> Rubidium: I actually don’t give a flying fuck about reserving ranges, and putting ‘my’ ranges in the list only perpetuates the silly behaviour :D
19:30:32  <andythenorth> but thanks :)
19:33:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: i would like to use the grfid F125F123. can it get it for a lump sum? or do you insist on a monthly rent?
19:33:20  <andythenorth> hmm
19:33:24  <andythenorth> monthly rent
19:33:27  <andythenorth> I set the price
19:34:31  <Rubidium> andythenorth: I could add 00 after it, so you reserve only a small range ;)
19:34:38  <andythenorth> ha
19:34:43  <andythenorth> just list the grfids :P
19:34:53  <andythenorth> “Hai, I would like to reserve my actual grfids plz"
19:35:08  <planetmaker> tbh, it would work to add those there, too
19:35:33  <frosch123> you saw the links at the bottom?
19:35:53  <frosch123> sure, you could compress the list by removing the md5sum
19:35:57  <frosch123> but it would still be long
19:36:21  <frosch123> also, grfids like 32323232 or 00000001 only make the author look stupid
19:37:38  <andythenorth> I am definitely going to move Road Hog to 32323232
19:37:58  <andythenorth> is it taken?
19:38:04  <frosch123> yes :/
19:38:07  <andythenorth> hey, this is tedious
19:38:22  <andythenorth> can we write a web service that generates known unique grfids?
19:38:32  <frosch123> my theory is that someone was missing the first 4 letters of the grfname in game, and padded it with blanks until it was viisble :)
19:38:35  <andythenorth> honestly there’s a lot anxiety over the meaning of simple uids
19:38:47  <andythenorth> I’ve seen this kind of crap before
19:38:55  <andythenorth> the only meaning is ‘this is unique item'
19:39:14  <andythenorth> we should have just dished them out starting at 00000001
19:39:24  <andythenorth> and incrementing by 1 per newgrf
19:39:30  <frosch123> how about enforcing the rule: use the unix time stamp from when you start writing the grf?
19:39:44  <andythenorth> ha
19:39:49  <andythenorth> collision-proof :P
19:40:40  <frosch123> we need 64bit grfids to surive 2056-ish
19:54:07  <Alberth> space character is 20 rather than 32  :p
19:57:13  <Rubidium> there's no 32323232; the last two are 33 and 22
19:57:56  <Rubidium> or 223" (in ASCII)
19:59:12  <Rubidium> luukland uses 20202020 though
20:00:14  <Rubidium> oh... 42424242
20:02:54  <frosch123> Alberth: oh, damn, i messed that up
20:22:36  <andythenorth> Ammler!
20:22:38  <andythenorth> is alive :)
20:23:07  <frosch123> or undead :p
20:23:52  <Ammler> always was and will :-P
20:24:01  <Ammler> and always reading
20:24:17  <Ammler> Grüezi andythenorth
20:25:26  <Ammler> I wonder if you deleted the part in the GRF spec which tells the first 2 bytes define the author
20:26:19  <frosch123> we did, just 2 hours ago
20:26:24  <Ammler> oh, or was it one byte :-)
20:26:32  <Ammler> hehe
20:26:40  <andythenorth> how many grfids are there in total?  4 billion?
20:27:16  <planetmaker> heya Ammler :)
20:27:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: depends whether you consider all chars equal :)
20:27:54  <frosch123> @calc (26*2)^2
20:27:56  <andythenorth> I just care that it’s a uid that doesn’t cause handbags
20:28:00  <Ammler> frosch123: oh, before my post but after Alberth's :-P
20:28:11  <frosch123> !calc (26*2)^2
20:28:30  <frosch123> @calc (26*2)**2
20:28:30  <Webster> frosch123: 2704
20:28:40  <andythenorth> that’s not that may :o
20:28:43  <andythenorth> many *
20:28:44  <frosch123> so, only 2704 two letter prefixes, including lowercase
20:29:03  <frosch123> andythenorth: exactly, and some are more likely than others
20:29:30  <frosch123> you can tell that by companies who assign email adresses using initals
20:29:50  <frosch123> like :p
20:30:22  <andythenorth> Ammler: you were missed ;)
20:32:51  <Ammler> my new email has also a number at the end and we use the whole name
20:33:14  <Ammler> (
20:34:49  <Alberth> I didn't  really want to post more in that thread, but alas :(
20:35:41  <frosch123> i didn't even bother reading it :p
20:35:47  <frosch123> did i miss something?
20:39:00  <Ammler> oztrans had/has many issues, but the GRFID/Versioning wasn't one, he has not the comfort of Action14 to control it
20:40:00  <Ammler> people start to forget about ttdpatch
20:40:17  <frosch123> about what?
20:40:29  <Ammler> about it existence :-P
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20:54:08  <Ammler> ah gone, just wanted to tell him, he blames oz to claim 2 bytes for all his grfs, while andythenorth claims the same per grf
20:54:52  <andythenorth> I do? :)
20:55:06  <andythenorth> iirc, I claim 4 bytes per grf?
20:55:33  <Ammler> he, according to the wiki you do
20:55:56  <andythenorth> :P
20:55:58  <Ammler> looks like "A _ _ _" belongs to you, well you earn it :-P
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