Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 25th August 2014:
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10:05:37  <DevZone> Project 2ccts build #249-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 34 sec:
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13:20:40  <DevZone> Project FISH is ships build #287-push: STILL FAILING in 34 sec:
13:42:04  <DevZone> Project FISH is ships build #288-push: STILL FAILING in 20 sec:
14:01:30  <DevZone> Project FISH is ships build #289-push: STILL FAILING in 21 sec:
14:12:47  <DevZone> Project FISH is ships build #290-push: STILL FAILING in 19 sec:
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14:46:03  <erlehmann> i just tested iron horse and there is a problem with it
14:46:13  <erlehmann> the waggons all have the same cost – even if they are newer and stuff
14:46:23  <erlehmann> and i think they have the same running cost as well
14:46:27  <erlehmann> there should be price discrimination!
14:46:41  <erlehmann> andythenorth this is your project?
14:46:45  <erlehmann> if so, where do i report bug?
14:47:50  <andythenorth> so they do :)
14:47:50  <andythenorth>
14:47:57  * andythenorth will fix that
14:50:18  <andythenorth> erlehmann: did you find also the Termite track set?
14:50:30  <andythenorth> it’s unreleased, but is designed for Iron Horse
14:50:41  <andythenorth>
14:50:43  <erlehmann> andythenorth is it on bananas? if not i may rarely find it
14:50:50  <andythenorth> it has a few bugs
14:50:56  <andythenorth> graphics
14:50:58  <erlehmann> andythenorth also why ire the iron horse locomotives so FAST?
14:51:05  <andythenorth> because I am impatient
14:51:12  <erlehmann> i enjoy playing with 2cc set because some of the locomotives are slow and strong.
14:51:19  <andythenorth> mostly I am playing cargo goal gamescripts
14:51:20  <erlehmann> this gives greater depth to gameplay
14:51:32  <erlehmann> oh, i play with neighbours are important and FIRS
14:51:55  <andythenorth> Iron Horse will have more rosters in future, some will be slower
14:52:02  <andythenorth> UK has relatively fast trains
14:52:15  <andythenorth> probably UK has some of highest train speeds in the world iirc
14:52:59  <erlehmann> andythenorth i want to have a choice of fast and slow train!
14:53:38  <andythenorth> there’ll probably be a roster with that
14:53:54  <andythenorth> in my experience that just means slower train
14:54:02  <andythenorth> as the fast ones have to wait behind the slow ones
14:54:13  <andythenorth> but ymmv
14:54:32  <erlehmann> i mean more like having trade-offs
14:54:40  <andythenorth> oic :)
14:54:44  <andythenorth> trade-offs are boring :)
14:54:46  <erlehmann> like the fact that electric trains pull harder
14:54:52  <erlehmann> but rail costs 10× as much
14:54:55  <andythenorth> there should always just be one or two choices
14:55:12  <andythenorth> I dunno, there are lots of grfs with more stuf than IH :)
14:55:19  <erlehmann> and i would like to have to choose between fast (and possibly underpowered?) or slow (and cheap) transport
14:55:26  <erlehmann> yeah, but 2cc is just too much :D
14:55:34  <erlehmann> so i am looking forward to iron horse
14:56:06  <erlehmann> if you fix the cost issue (also a trade-off thing, i think the newer waggons should not be better in all respects, at least more expensive)
14:56:12  <erlehmann> and push it on bananas, i'll play
14:56:29  <andythenorth> they should be more expensive
14:56:30  <erlehmann> btw, as a developer, do you know why DB Set XL and German Car Set are not on bananas?
14:56:36  <erlehmann> great :)
14:56:39  <andythenorth> Michael doesn’t like bananas
14:56:48  <andythenorth> ask him in the forums?
14:57:45  <andythenorth> dunno about the German RV set
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14:58:29  <erlehmann> sorry, network fail
14:58:32  <erlehmann> <erlehmann> btw, as a developer, do you know why DB Set XL and German Car Set are not on bananas?
14:58:32  <erlehmann> <erlehmann> great :)
15:02:20  <^Spike^> (16:56:40) (andythenorth) Michael doesn’t like bananas
15:02:20  <^Spike^> (16:56:50) (andythenorth) ask him in the forums?
15:02:21  <^Spike^> (16:57:46) (andythenorth) dunno about the German RV set
15:02:35  <^Spike^> @logs\
15:02:37  <^Spike^> @logs
15:02:37  <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer -
15:02:44  <^Spike^> also helps :)
15:02:50  <^Spike^> to see what did and didn't come through :)
15:03:11  <erlehmann> ^Spike^ “does not like”, is it about confusing technical and artistic control?
15:03:21  <erlehmann> thx
15:03:38  <andythenorth> ask MB, it’s better he explains himself
15:03:45  <andythenorth> instead of putting words he might not agree with
15:04:00  <erlehmann> okay. it is just that i often see that game devs have issues with licensing content freely.
15:04:12  <erlehmann> because they fear loos of artistic control
15:04:15  <erlehmann> see dwarf fortress
15:04:28  <erlehmann> i thought maybe he had made himself clear in a forum post or something you could cite :)
15:04:44  <erlehmann> where do i best ask MB?
15:05:11  <erlehmann> also, i draw black-white icons. is any of this of use for openttd stuff?
15:05:15  <erlehmann> it is for GNU unifont
15:05:26  <andythenorth> best asked in #openttd
15:05:29  <erlehmann> ok
15:05:36  * andythenorth bbl
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15:17:05  <erlehmann> btw, thanks to all of you responsible for 2cc trainset!
15:20:07  <DevZone> Project termite build #39-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec:
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16:04:29  <erlehmann> in 2cc trainset 1.x i could have regions
16:04:35  <erlehmann> are they not in 2cc trainset 2.0?
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16:51:45  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #401-push: SUCCESS in 4 min 17 sec:
16:53:24  <DevZone> Project Dutch Trainset build #256-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 38 sec:
16:55:32  <DevZone> Project 2ccts build #250-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 8 sec:
17:11:09  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth. I was told by ^Spike^ you had a question for me?
17:11:19  <andythenorth> bundles :)
17:11:27  <andythenorth> two related issues for Squid ate FISH
17:11:38  <andythenorth> 1) it now uses current nml tip
17:11:55  <andythenorth> 2) it needs python 2 and 3 for build, and a Makefile.local to specify path
17:12:15  <planetmaker> that all should work without much trouble, I think
17:12:46  <planetmaker> the nml version might be specified in .devzone/build somewhere
17:12:50  <planetmaker> is there such file?
17:13:09  * andythenorth looks
17:13:23  <planetmaker> I can't look now myself quickly. Slow internet in hotel
17:13:30  <andythenorth> there is .devzone/build
17:13:36  <andythenorth> as dir
17:13:41  <planetmaker> any contents?
17:13:53  <planetmaker> like nml.spec or type or... ?
17:13:53  <andythenorth> files, type
17:14:01  <andythenorth> no nml.spec
17:14:02  <planetmaker> what does type look like?
17:14:08  <andythenorth> ‘nml'
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17:14:22  <planetmaker> then it should build with tip by deault. doesn't it do so?
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17:15:44  <planetmaker> it seems to use tip
17:15:46  <planetmaker> of nml
17:15:57  <planetmaker> 16:19:28 0.4.0.r5307:0be320b4fa1a from 2014-07-13
17:16:01  <planetmaker> or is that not tip?
17:16:13  <planetmaker> then my devzone nml update script is broken
17:16:38  <Alberth> 2202:4436a5648954
17:16:48  <planetmaker> yeah, seems so. ok :(
17:16:59  <planetmaker> drat
17:19:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I updated devzone's nml manually now. Doesn't fix my bug in nml auto-update yet though :(
17:19:38  <andythenorth> :P
17:19:38  <andythenorth> :)
17:19:53  <^Spike^> planetmaker how does that script run... or rather where?
17:20:58  <planetmaker> it's a script in the nml repo: .devzone/build/
17:21:09  <^Spike^> hmmm
17:21:30  <planetmaker> that should be run and make sure that devzone updates itself successfully after the tests are run
17:21:50  <planetmaker> (and it should update the nml of devzone even when some of the test builds fail)
17:22:07  <^Spike^> is it safe to run a build on nml now?
17:22:19  <planetmaker> yes
17:22:26  <planetmaker> I just manually pulled the new version
17:22:39  <^Spike^> let's see what it does...
17:23:02  <planetmaker> it should always be safe to build nml ;)
17:23:18  <planetmaker> should... dunno what it does with the running yeti job :P
17:23:30  <planetmaker> probably wreak havoc :P
17:23:36  <^Spike^> :)
17:23:56  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #357-nightlies: FAILURE in 1 min 21 sec:
17:24:12  <planetmaker> hm, I changed my login... and don't have that on this laptop :P
17:24:17  <^Spike^> :)
17:25:02  <^Spike^>
17:25:03  <^Spike^> hmm
17:25:15  <planetmaker> hm
17:25:48  <planetmaker> that's a quirk with NFS... needs root to delete LATEST and jenkins to (re-)create it
17:25:57  <^Spike^> hmmm
17:26:21  <planetmaker> or rather a quirk with the different VMs using different userIDs for write access
17:26:27  <^Spike^> working on it :)
17:26:41  <^Spike^> LATEST where? :D
17:26:42  <planetmaker> the most important one is that it's the same as jenkins
17:26:50  <planetmaker> that's bundles server
17:27:18  <planetmaker> 19:23:44 Publishing to /data/bundles/nml/nightlies/LATEST ->  /data/bundles/nml/nightlies/v5348
17:27:23  <^Spike^> take 2
17:27:46  <planetmaker> I thought I once made sure that every LATEST was deleted and had it re-create them by jenkins
17:27:48  <^Spike^> i love being able to start builds from irc from time to time :)
17:27:51  <planetmaker> maybe I missed this one
17:28:00  * ^Spike^ just did chown 3002:3002 * :)
17:28:05  <^Spike^> oh with a -R
17:28:45  <planetmaker> yeah... basically *everything* in /data/bundles must be owned by jenkins
17:28:46  <^Spike^> seems to go better now
17:28:59  <^Spike^> can make it a cron to do it every once in a while
17:29:00  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #358-nightlies: STILL FAILING in 1 min 40 sec:
17:29:13  <planetmaker> anyhow, that error is unrelated to nml not being updated... that failure comes after the update
17:29:25  <^Spike^> hmm
17:30:12  <planetmaker> and now it correctly says that it pulled and it pulled 0 updates...
17:30:54  <^Spike^> :)
17:30:58  <planetmaker> oh... "21:32:14 Neither tip nor a release was built. Not updating NML"
17:31:10  <planetmaker> thus my failure to identify building of nml tip fails
17:31:29  <planetmaker> (and of course devzone shall not update to an old nml version, should I fancy building that)
17:32:00  <planetmaker>
17:32:57  <planetmaker> I *think* I know that error... hm...
17:33:11  <planetmaker> might have fixed it for devzone repo but not for nml repo
17:33:45  <planetmaker> by the way: the weather in Paris sucks big time
17:34:10  <planetmaker> it changes between rain and heavy rain constantly
17:34:20  <DevZone> Project termite build #40-push: SUCCESS in 25 sec:
17:34:41  <DevZone> Project termite build #41-releases: SUCCESS in 21 sec:
17:34:50  <^Spike^> hehe
17:35:15  <^Spike^> sounds the same like the weather here :)
17:35:26  <andythenorth> and here
17:35:43  <planetmaker> but going by TGV here, that was great fun :)
17:36:06  <Rubidium> I hope it didn't hurt your ears
17:36:09  <planetmaker> reminds me... I need to know whether the tracks are build for curves or whether it has active tilt
17:36:17  <planetmaker> na, my ears were quite fine
17:36:22  <Rubidium> the tracks are built for curves
17:36:28  <planetmaker> ok :) ty
17:36:29  <Rubidium> there's also a max weight for trains
17:36:41  <planetmaker> it also seems limited to 320 km/h
17:36:52  <planetmaker> actively
17:36:59  <^Spike^> pm, can you check other universe aswell shortly? :)
17:39:27  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I guess there's some physical threshold around 300-320 km/h
17:39:53  <Rubidium> as also the (standard gauge normal rail) Shinkansen has around those top speeds
17:40:11  <Rubidium> well, top speeds during regular passenger runs
17:40:13  <planetmaker> well, there definitely is a power threshold. When there was a slight uphill track, it definitely slowed down from 320 to ~290
17:40:44  <planetmaker> the "problem" with higher speeds - iirc - is the switches.
17:41:01  <planetmaker> but I'm far from an expert. You're one :)
17:41:51  <Rubidium> diverging on switches at high speed is definitely a "problem", though with a good high speed switch with movable frog there should be no problems
17:44:02  <Rubidium> IIRC the 1:39 ratio switches have a diverging speed of somewhere around 160 km/h, 1:34 are about 140 km/h
17:45:16  <planetmaker> the funny thing in TGV is: they only display the speed in the passenger terminal in the wagons if v>=230 km/h :)
17:45:33  <Alberth> :)
17:46:42  <andythenorth> isn’t there some wheel-rail interface problem above those speeds?
17:47:01  <andythenorth> I can’t remember, but I read something about the upper limits of steel-on-steel
17:47:10  * andythenorth might be smoking crack
17:47:21  <Rubidium> there undoubtedly be some limits
17:47:33  <Rubidium> not sure whether there are already at 300 kph
17:50:06  <Rubidium> joy... looking for steel on steel speed limits... option #7: ttdpatch wiki
17:50:21  <andythenorth> he
17:50:32  <Rubidium> ah well, time to test the Eurostar on Wednesday
17:50:43  <Rubidium> maybe planetmaker and I will be in France at the same time
17:51:50  <andythenorth> maybe it’s the curve size that would be needed
17:52:03  <andythenorth> at very high speeds, curve radius gets huge
17:52:49  <Rubidium> that'd only make things less practical to build, though the new high speed lines in France already are designed with 7 km radii
17:53:04  <Rubidium> and loads of superelevation
17:53:12  <planetmaker> yes, we will be, Rubidium. I only return home on Saturday
17:53:18  <planetmaker> going to Paris, Rubidium?
17:53:37  <planetmaker> we could meet. Wedensday is basically a boring day, no interesting talk here. Only conference dinner in the evening
17:53:41  <Rubidium> taking the Eurostar to Paris would be pretty expensive ;)
17:53:46  <planetmaker> oh :)
17:53:48  <planetmaker> yeah
17:57:44  <Rubidium> anyhow, I'll be going to Newbury (for Wednesday evening - Friday afternoon), and then London (Friday evening - Sunday afternoon)
17:58:40  <planetmaker> work or fun? Or in that order?
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18:01:23  <andythenorth> Rubidium: Newbury?  Oh the glamour :)
18:02:16  <Rubidium> planetmaker: in that order
18:02:43  <Rubidium> andythenorth: I hope the town is more interesting than Nossegem (Belgium)
18:03:58  <andythenorth> I hope so too :)
18:04:00  <andythenorth> I haven’t been
18:04:04  <andythenorth> to either :P
18:12:29  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so how would I provide a Makefile.local for devzone build?  Is that nml.spec or such?
18:12:52  <planetmaker> wait... Makefile.*local*?
18:13:11  <planetmaker> what does devzone need which others don't?
18:13:35  <andythenorth> PYTHONPATH needs to be specified
18:13:47  <andythenorth> otherwise python gets in a big pickle about modules
18:13:51  <planetmaker> ok
18:14:33  <andythenorth> we rely on the environment being python 3 (which nml needs), and then tell the python 2 compile script where their python 2 modules are
18:14:35  <planetmaker> there's the principle possibility to define your own build script, in the same way like nml does itself
18:15:04  <planetmaker> but can't you set the python envs in the Makefile, or does it need to be specific to the machine?
18:15:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: L11
18:15:31  <andythenorth> there might be a better way, this is what Eddi suggested
18:15:47  <andythenorth> can probably set the defaults in the Makefile?
18:16:05  <andythenorth> obviously my Makefile.local provides my local paths for those vars
18:16:38  <planetmaker> that looks ok. It just needs defaults which work on the Devzone, yes. And when the defaults are devzone compatible it doesn't need a Makefile.local - but everywhere else :)
18:16:57  <planetmaker> which I'd prefer - as changes on the server are always ... well... need manual intervention
18:17:24  <planetmaker> so what you can do:
18:18:15  <planetmaker> define PYTHONPATH2 as we need on devzone
18:18:46  <planetmaker> ask for inclusion conditionally for Makefile.local (which you then could use to override the default for your system, or I on mine, or whoever compiles it, too)
18:19:12  <planetmaker> ~/bin/repos/nml$ which python2
18:19:12  <planetmaker> /usr/bin/python2
18:19:19  <planetmaker> ^ does not look totally out of box
18:20:05  <planetmaker> hm.. but modules... how do I find that path?
18:20:17  <andythenorth> 10s
18:20:33  <andythenorth> my local equivalent is PYTHONPATH2=../../lib/python2.6/site-packages
18:20:56  <andythenorth> usually site-packages is the default module location afaik
18:22:01  <planetmaker> right... but there are no custom modules in that dir :D
18:22:05  <andythenorth> :P
18:22:15  <andythenorth> grep for chameleon?
18:22:30  <planetmaker> that's installed via apt... so elsewhere
18:24:39  <andythenorth> hmm
18:24:55  <andythenorth> python and module search paths :(
18:25:02  <andythenorth> I have a hard time with it :)
18:25:20  <Alberth> don't use anything outside standard libraries? :)
18:25:44  <planetmaker> well, chameleon used to work...
18:30:05  <frosch123> did it hide?
18:30:12  <planetmaker>
18:30:23  <planetmaker> so seems it's in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages
18:30:30  <planetmaker> where apt installs stuff
18:30:47  <andythenorth> well let’s try that :)
18:40:22  <DevZone> Project yeti build #5-push: SUCCESS in 1 hr 52 min:
18:42:40  <Alberth> s/in/after/
18:42:59  <planetmaker> no, really *in*
18:43:11  <planetmaker> otherwise it should read "built"
18:43:59  <planetmaker> or maybe it should always read 'built'. Dunno :P
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19:01:58  <DevZone> Project termite build #42-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec:
19:06:58  <andythenorth> bbl
19:06:59  <andythenorth> driving
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20:29:57  <DevZone> Project termite build #43-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec:
20:59:48  <DevZone> Project termite build #44-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec:
21:11:59  <DevZone> Project termite build #45-push: SUCCESS in 22 sec:
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21:15:11  <DevZone> Project termite build #46-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec:
21:15:34  <DevZone> Project termite build #47-releases: SUCCESS in 23 sec:
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21:32:35  <andythenorth> bye
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22:26:00  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #269-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 19 sec:
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