Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 27th October 2014:
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10:54:28  <DevZone> Project 2ccts build #349-push: SUCCESS in 1 min 42 sec:
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16:48:25  <DevZone> Project road-hog build #454-push: SUCCESS in 37 sec:
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16:52:52  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #529-push: SUCCESS in 3 min 49 sec:
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17:11:42  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Landscape build #64-push: SUCCESS in 24 min:
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17:38:01  <Alberth> planetmaker: actually I have a question about the landscape thingie I translated yesterday:
17:38:01  <Alberth> is "allowed" height good there, shouldn't it be "available" height?
17:39:00  <Alberth> and then there is the question how "allowed" and "maximum" relate there
17:40:39  <planetmaker> with 'allowed height' I mean the setting of the maximum height you set on map generation. No tile can be higher (hard limit). The actually highest tile can be much lower though
17:41:14  <planetmaker> probably allowed and maximum should be replaced by the same word...
17:41:20  <planetmaker> not sure which :)
17:42:36  <Alberth> "allowed" to me means to me a (upper) limit here, ie a bigger value cannot exist
17:43:21  <Alberth> (it would be an error)
17:43:41  <planetmaker> well. Currently you can set a maximum allowed height. And the absolute height of course is limited to 255 whatever that setting. But the user should not care, I guess
17:43:57  <planetmaker> Not sure actually whether one can change that heightlevel setting after map creation
17:44:28  <Alberth> probably not, newgrf parameters cannot be changed in-game
17:44:46  <planetmaker> it's not a newgrf paramter. I mean the setting for map generation
17:44:55  <planetmaker> but as newgrfs can read it... probably not safe :)
17:45:22  <Alberth> you might be able to change it using rcon :)
17:46:17  <planetmaker> I don't think it should work in multiplayer. As NewGRFs can read it and depend their action on it. Like OpenGFX+Landscape :)
17:47:13  <planetmaker> Do you have a good suggestion on how to reword the English to make it clearer?
17:47:21  <Alberth> but anyway, wouldn't it be easier to talk about highest available height?   whether I use 160 or 14 doesn't matter much if the highest tile is at height 10 (assuming max height to be 64 for example)
17:47:57  <planetmaker> highest availabe = highest tile I could create, yes?
17:48:23  <Alberth> no, the highest tile after map generation
17:48:32  <planetmaker> the newgrf doesn't care about how the map actually looks. The parameters don't care about that either
17:49:15  <Alberth> is there a difference in my example at all?
17:49:30  <Alberth> ie, bigger than max height vs too high in my map
17:50:12  <planetmaker> hm, I guess I start to get what you mean :) Slightly different than what I did :)
17:50:26  <planetmaker> so you want to say: if there's no higher tile around, there won't be snow
17:50:38  <planetmaker> I wanted to say: if there cannot be a higher tile, there can never be snow
17:51:03  <Alberth> that seems easier than talking about max height which is purely theoretical in many cases
17:51:08  <planetmaker> your case can be changed by terraforming, rising a mountain, so that there might actually appear snow
17:51:26  <planetmaker> you're right
17:51:44  <planetmaker> so... I guess we could even use your formulation
17:52:19  <Alberth> terraforming is fine, if the highest available tile is above the limit, you get snow :)
17:53:36  <planetmaker> If there is no tile higher than this level, there will be no snow. For OpenTTD < 1.5.0 and earlier than r27010 the maximum terrain height is 15.
17:53:38  <Alberth> s/\<if\>/iff/   :)
17:53:39  <planetmaker> ^ like that?
17:54:06  <planetmaker> ... no tile can be higher than 15.
17:54:12  <planetmaker> instead of maximum...
17:54:36  <Alberth> it's extra information, but it would be fine I think
17:57:14  <planetmaker> ok, I'll then change it to "If there is no tile higher than this level, there will be no snow. For OpenTTD < 1.5.0 and earlier than r27010 no tile can be higher than 15."
17:57:42  <Alberth> hmm, double negation is not so nice
17:58:06  <planetmaker> ah
17:58:09  <planetmaker> yes :)
17:58:33  <Alberth> Tiles above this level get snow. For OpenTTD < 1.5.0 and earlier than r27010 tiles are always below 16.
17:59:37  <Alberth> for the versions, I said something like "For OpenTTD versions before 1.5.0 or r27010, ..."  in the translation
18:00:53  <planetmaker>  Tiles above this level will be snowy. For OpenTTD versions earlier than 1.5.0 or r27010 no tile can be higher than 15.
18:03:05  <planetmaker> yes, let's use ^
18:03:20  <Alberth> +1
18:07:06  <planetmaker> I pushed the lang file update
18:07:13  <planetmaker> now building for 30 minutes :P
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18:09:06  <planetmaker> hm, I just learnt that our scotish gaelic translator is a she :)
18:10:07  <planetmaker> seems she totally overhauled wideland's string system :)
18:10:20  <Alberth> nice :)
18:10:36  <Alberth> now she tries to do the same with ours? :)
18:11:04  <planetmaker> I don't think so. I mean... she got already a new language in OpenTTD and a new plural version :P
18:11:21  <Alberth> :D
18:11:38  <planetmaker> just the official wideland news refer to the nick as 'she'
18:12:07  <frosch123> what if the news author was a she?
18:12:18  <planetmaker> but I've seen that nick active in several projects
18:12:37  <planetmaker> "This endeavor was spearheaded by GunChleoc. She showed very strong dedication..." is quite clear :)
18:14:23  <frosch123> well, yes, but what should have been used if the new author did not know the gender?
18:14:36  <frosch123> sure, this is more of a personal message, so they likely know
18:15:06  <frosch123> but still... most of the time i refer to unknown people as "he", but sometimes i use "she" just because
18:15:23  <planetmaker> :)
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18:15:51  <frosch123> btw. widelands news need a proper date sytem
18:15:52  <Alberth> dedicated persons are welcome no matter what gender :)
18:16:07  <frosch123> at least i hope it's not my locale that makes them use mm--dd-yy
18:16:28  <planetmaker> it's same here, yes
18:16:43  <frosch123> i thought it was a recent news item :p
18:17:35  <planetmaker> :P
18:18:59  <planetmaker> oh, they use bazaar as vcs
18:22:44  <Alberth> I used that too, before switching to hg :)
18:22:56  <planetmaker> :)
18:23:08  <planetmaker> how did you solve your yesterday's issues, btw?
18:23:20  <Alberth> I used histedit
18:23:36  <planetmaker> actually I think currently, if you don't want anything development extension, mq can be used for parts of that, too
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18:23:53  <planetmaker> but good if histedit did the trick for you
18:24:01  <planetmaker> did you enable phase=draft for you generally?
18:24:13  <planetmaker> I very much would recommend that :)
18:24:31  <Alberth> ah yes, that was an important step, thanks for that
18:24:35  <Alberth> I made it default
18:24:50  <planetmaker> :) I even have it as secret, but that's a matter of taste
18:25:04  <planetmaker> thus I won't accidentially push anything which I didn't change phase on
18:25:31  <Alberth> makes sense
18:25:38  <planetmaker> and allows me to keep unfinished commits in the same repo and still push :)
18:25:59  <Alberth> on the other hand, i n all the years of public by default, nothing bad happened either :)
18:26:22  <planetmaker> no. changing it to draft is the setting which doesn't affect your workflow at all
18:26:26  <Alberth> maybe that's the difference, I tend to make a new clone for hacking
18:26:30  <planetmaker> secret allows slightly different ones
18:26:39  <planetmaker> yes, then that's not needed :)
18:26:56  <planetmaker> and with hg a good practise actually
18:26:59  <Alberth> and push is then to the mirror clone rather than the remote repo
18:27:20  <Alberth> yeah, but bookmarks seem to change that somewhat
18:27:44  <planetmaker> yes... though I'm not totally at friends with them yet
18:28:41  <Alberth> I tried finding a working evolve for some time, but all pages led to a dead end
18:29:07  <Alberth> although I am not sure I am ready for that, the last time I tried I had a hard time understanding what was happening
18:29:14  <planetmaker> I have locally mercurial and evolve repos and update them at the same time
18:29:32  <planetmaker> that makes it usually easier to get the right version for evolve
18:29:35  <Alberth> really bleeding edge :p
18:29:35  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Landscape build #65-push: SUCCESS in 23 min:
18:29:51  <planetmaker> well, I only use stable hg or rcs, thus their tags
18:30:18  <planetmaker> not into their development repos (yet?) :P
18:31:07  <planetmaker> must keep myself informed when supporting devzone. That's my excuse ;)
18:31:17  <Alberth> the next problem was a lack of hg-enabled FreeRCT repos yesterday :p
18:31:30  <planetmaker> "hg-enabled"?
18:31:42  <Alberth> and somewhat, a lack of code review from hg
18:31:57  <planetmaker> well, if you like, you can well have a repo or two at devzone
18:32:03  <Alberth> "hg -enabled" as in a hg mirror to push to :)
18:32:37  <Alberth> I know, but the lord considers it wrong :)
18:32:42  <planetmaker> where did the previous one go to?
18:32:54  <planetmaker> *previous repo
18:33:20  <Alberth> we still have svn at google code, which is the first repo
18:33:31  <Alberth> except perhaps some stuff I had locally
18:33:42  <planetmaker> uh, right
18:33:47  <Alberth> lord aro added a GH mirror
18:33:52  <planetmaker> hgsubversion for the rescue :)
18:34:02  <Alberth> and an automagic Travis build script thingie
18:34:09  <planetmaker> that's not a bad thing, no
18:34:28  <Alberth> yep, I use hgsubversion to make a local hg mirror
18:34:44  <Alberth> I tried pushing with it at work, but that ended in disaster
18:34:57  <planetmaker> :(
18:35:11  <Alberth> hg accepted change sets, and on push SVN refused them :p
18:35:27  <planetmaker> he
18:35:37  <planetmaker> you should report it as bug to hgsubversion :)
18:35:56  <planetmaker> but meh, that's tedious work, too :)
18:35:56  <Alberth> so it popped up a merge editor
18:36:03  <planetmaker> ups?
18:36:09  <Alberth> and hard to reproduce
18:36:39  <Alberth> at the time, I made a clone of the repo, and was the only person working in it
18:36:44  <planetmaker> :)
18:37:03  <Alberth> so there should have been no conflict at all
18:37:25  <planetmaker> maybe file properties or so
18:37:51  <Alberth> but at the size of the changes we do at work, it's no fun figuring out what is wrong, or what part is missing etc
18:38:13  <planetmaker> nope, not at all. It's only annoying
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18:40:29  <DevZone> Project road-hog build #455-nightlies: SUCCESS in 28 sec:
18:51:20  <Alberth> hmm, "eints" seems to like changing strings, it's author of some strings :)
18:51:34  <frosch123> whitespace
18:51:37  <planetmaker> hm
18:51:39  <planetmaker> :)
18:51:52  <frosch123> whenever there is a new project or something, or a custom lang file upload
18:52:01  <frosch123> eints will fix whitespace on next push
18:53:29  <Alberth> wouldn't it be caused if the project owner changes a language file, and gets pushed to eints?
18:54:11  <Alberth> there is no proper translator credit in the language file itself
18:54:37  <frosch123> ah, that way
18:54:42  <frosch123> i thought in the commit message
18:55:12  <frosch123> but yes, first upload counts as "eints"
18:55:14  <planetmaker> commit message works for me
18:55:28  <planetmaker> pretty well on my projects
18:55:37  <Alberth>   <-- that one is by Eints, according to the translator
18:55:39  <frosch123> if commits are only whitespace, eints will change the file, but not print credits
18:56:03  <frosch123> (which is correct, but gives half-empty commit messages)
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