Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 6th November 2014:
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08:30:27  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #1121-push: SUCCESS in 3 min 13 sec:
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17:23:51  <frosch123> i prepared some patch for #1085, but i need some consultancy again :)
17:24:19  <frosch123> in the spriteset/template where you can set CROP/NOCROP today i added 6 additional flags
17:24:57  <frosch123> they enable/disable warnings about pure-white, animation colours, and semi-transparent rgba pixels
17:25:13  <frosch123> the latter is meant for groundsprites which may not have any semi-transparent pixels
17:25:32  <frosch123> the default is to warn on white and anim, but not on semi-transparent
17:25:57  <frosch123> however, i wonder whether there should be command line options to globally disable these warning
17:26:05  <Alberth> alpha is actually opacity rather than transparency :p
17:26:33  <frosch123> also ALPHA/NOALPHA may be consusing, but SEMI/NOSEMI is not much better :p
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17:27:04  <Alberth> TRANS/NOTRANS ?   or TRANSP/NOTRANSP?
17:27:18  <frosch123> well, 0% and 100% opacity are allowed
17:27:25  <frosch123> it warns about 1% to 99%
17:27:42  <Alberth> OPAQUE/TRANSPARENT ?
17:27:46  <frosch123> <- unpolished, just for context
17:27:56  <Alberth> hmm, not good either
17:29:26  <Alberth> from your description I wonder why you'd need ALPHA/NOALPHA flags
17:29:41  <frosch123> for 32bpp ground sprites
17:29:49  <Alberth> since you know when a groundtile is defined, and it is not allowed to have transparency
17:30:09  <Alberth> ie flag it as an error
17:30:29  <frosch123> i do not know that in all cases
17:30:46  <frosch123> i do not know it for basesets, and for spritelayouts it is quite non-trivial as well
17:31:06  <frosch123> for stations it may even be impossible to tell
17:32:41  <frosch123> so, i think nml can only support the coder in checking the source sprites, but not do it on its own
17:34:04  <Alberth> sum(0xD9 <= p <= 0xF4 for p in mask_sprite_data)  <-- interesting way to count :)
17:34:58  <frosch123> yeah, sum also works for bools :)
17:37:52  <Alberth> you know membership testing is normally done with 'in'?  <value> in <set-or-dict-or-list>
17:38:26  <Alberth> what's the use case for disabling the warnings?
17:38:51  <frosch123> i know "a in b", what code piece did i mess up? :p
17:39:18  <frosch123> i wondered about an option to disable anim-colour warning globally, since there seem to be some sets which use it in a ton of sprites
17:39:19  <Alberth> (sprite_info.flags.value & real_sprite.FLAG_NOCROP)   <-- all that bitwise testing :)
17:39:43  <frosch123> those values are directly from the NML code
17:40:04  <frosch123> user would put "NOCROP | ANIM | NOALPHA" in the source
17:40:27  <Alberth> you can add that to a specific real sprite?
17:40:42  <Alberth> that would be my preference
17:40:50  <frosch123> yes, per realsprite
17:41:01  <Alberth> although arguably, you then need to warn if the suppression is not needed
17:41:04  <frosch123> if the set uses templates it would likely need two templates
17:41:44  <frosch123> for example vehicle sets would use one template with no-anim, and one template with anim
17:41:54  <frosch123> most vehicles would use the anim one
17:42:08  <frosch123> but stuff like fizzy drink transporters and such would use the anim one
17:42:41  <frosch123> however xussr seems to have fiery pixels on almost all steamers
17:43:11  <Alberth> some sets are different :)
17:44:37  <Alberth> tbh since a user can already specify whether or not he wants a warning (lazy users can put their NOCROP | ANIM | NOALPHA default in the template), I don't see much use for a more global suppression
17:45:06  <frosch123> also true :)
17:45:26  <Alberth> you have a similar case with translations that are broken wrt the base language, but afaik you cannot suppress that
17:45:39  <Alberth> that would be useful to globally suppress, imho
17:46:28  <Alberth> I can imagine a special --check-my-suppressions  flag to find suppress flags which are not needed
17:46:34  <Alberth> but that's bonus :)
17:46:55  <frosch123> i think that would comflict with the idea of templates
17:47:35  <Alberth> not giving a way to globally disable the warning also pushes people to be careful with their sprites, imho
17:47:40  <frosch123> if you make the flags have to match exactly, you need to distinguish a lot more templates
17:49:05  <Alberth> no, I mean like the Java editor of Eclipse, which warns about an unneeded annotation
17:49:23  <Alberth> ie knowing where to add a flag is easy, just run the tool
17:49:42  <Alberth> knowing what suppression to remove is often not so easy
17:49:56  <Alberth> a computer tends not to give that information :)
17:50:35  <Alberth> my special flag would print that to the output, so a user can check them or remove them or so
17:50:40  <frosch123> that sounds like a hard task :o
17:51:00  <frosch123> it would need to track all usages of templates and check whether any usage needs the flag
17:51:46  <frosch123> not sure whether people create templates via the c preprocessor
17:51:53  <frosch123> that would likely completely break it :p
17:52:16  <Alberth> not at all, you have to decide whether to print a warning. If you don't print it because the sprite is good, check whether it has a suppression flag, and print a warning that the suppression flag is not needed (the latter only if requested)
17:53:08  <frosch123> that sounds rather useless to me tbh
17:53:24  <frosch123> if you have a template for animated vehicles, some views of such vehicles will always have no animation
17:54:23  <frosch123> hmm, but ok, the other way around it is also useless
17:54:39  <frosch123> it would not detect if you use the anim-template on a non-anim vehicle
17:54:44  <Alberth> yes, but if you have 8 such lines, something interesting may be going on :)
17:54:47  <frosch123> so, possibly it could be done per spriteset
17:55:29  <Alberth> but as said, it's bonus to add such functionality :)
17:55:37  <planetmaker> hi ho
17:55:44  <Alberth> moin planetmaker
17:55:57  <frosch123> hai pm :)
17:56:14  * planetmaker reads back
17:59:07  <Alberth> better start at the top :p
18:00:26  <planetmaker> frosch123, what about the WHITE/NOWHITE flag... what's the use case really?
18:00:40  <frosch123> i just added it for completeness :p
18:00:47  <frosch123> but nuts was using white for a while
18:01:10  <planetmaker> you add the flags like NOCROP | NOWHITE | ALPHA, i.e. bitmasks?
18:01:26  <frosch123> yes, like the compression in nml 0.1 or something
18:01:51  <frosch123> using "bitmask" would be incompatible, so it needs to be "|"
18:01:58  <planetmaker> NOANIM warns about animated pixels? That might be useful. And ALPHA?
18:02:20  <planetmaker> transparency in 32bpp?
18:02:26  <frosch123> NOALPHA warns about semi-transparent pixels in 32bpp sprites
18:02:31  <frosch123> meant for 32bpp ground sprites
18:02:49  <frosch123> i.e. with NOALPHA only 0% and 100% opacity are allowed, but not 1% to 99%
18:03:29  <planetmaker> using those flags - contrary to CROP - is purely optional, thus doesn't change the grf output, right?
18:03:36  <Alberth> PARTIAL_TRANSPARENT  ?
18:03:58  <frosch123> yes, those flags only change warnings
18:04:43  <planetmaker> I think it only makes sense for 100% not transparent. So just OPAQUE?
18:05:15  <frosch123> what? ground sprites are not rectangular
18:05:23  <planetmaker> hm, yes
18:05:36  <planetmaker> so... where / how can I use it then at all?
18:05:39  <frosch123> it is about enforcing hard edges, no antia-aliased edges
18:06:14  <planetmaker> ah, hm. NO_ALPHA then :)
18:06:14  <Alberth> NOALIAS?
18:17:06  <V453000> NOWTF
18:17:47  <frosch123> <- hmm, cannot really find the actual post i had in mind, but this is the use case for NOALPHA
18:17:48  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - zBase (32bpp base set by Zephyris) (at
18:17:55  <frosch123> V453000:
18:18:06  <frosch123> your water is animated :p
18:18:24  <V453000> thats correct? :D
18:21:29  <Alberth> lol
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18:40:37  <DevZone> Project road-hog build #467-nightlies: SUCCESS in 36 sec:
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19:16:23  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #567-push: SUCCESS in 3 min 44 sec:
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19:50:36  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #569-push: FAILURE in 36 sec:
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20:03:51  <DevZone> Yippee, build fixed!
20:03:51  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #572-push: FIXED in 4 min 43 sec:
20:08:48  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #530-push: SUCCESS in 4 min 58 sec:
20:21:53  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #573-push: SUCCESS in 6 min 36 sec:
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22:19:14  <DevZone> Yippee, build fixed!
22:19:15  <DevZone> Project World Airliner Set build #578-push: FIXED in 4 min 25 sec:
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