Log for on 22nd October 2009:
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01:01:27  *** KenjiE20|LT has joined
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01:01:37  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
02:34:18  *** KenjiE20|LT has quit IRC
06:46:05  *** ^Spike^ has joined
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07:21:50  *** Webster has joined
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10:57:53  <planetmaker> !info
10:57:53  <ProZone> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Martburg Springs Transport'  Year Founded: 1970  Money: 1496102897  Loan: 0  Value: 1593477689  (T:535, R:7, P:2, S:20) unprotected
10:58:04  <planetmaker> !ip
10:58:04  <ProZone> planetmaker:
10:58:44  <planetmaker> !password
10:58:44  <ProZone> planetmaker: navies
11:00:12  <planetmaker> !players
11:00:14  <ProZone> planetmaker: There are currently no clients connected to the server
11:11:58  *** Chris_Booth has joined
11:29:07  *** Ammler sets mode: +i 
11:29:11  <Ammler> +i ?
11:29:38  <Chris_Booth> i dont know y irc doesnt have a pw entered
11:29:45  <Chris_Booth> and doesnt ask for one
11:30:02  *** Ammler sets mode: -i 
11:30:23  <Ammler> +s at least
11:30:40  <Chris_Booth> and last time i check Razaekel wasnt in pz
11:30:54  <Ammler> where did you check
11:30:55  *** KenjiE20 has joined
11:30:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20
11:31:01  <Ammler> maybe a member invited him?
11:31:10  <Chris_Booth> i dont know
11:31:19  <Chris_Booth> i said last time i checked
11:31:27  <Ammler> where?
11:31:27  <Chris_Booth> meaning it could have changed
11:32:01  <Chris_Booth> its a figure of speach
11:33:01  <Ammler> @kick Razaekel you aren't on the pro list
11:33:02  *** Razaekel was kicked by Webster (you aren't on the pro list)
11:33:02  *** Razaekel has joined
11:33:21  <Ammler> @ban Razaekel
11:33:27  <Ammler> @kick Razaekel you aren't on the pro list
11:33:27  *** Razaekel was kicked by Webster (you aren't on the pro list)
11:33:27  *** Razaekel has joined
11:33:59  <Ammler> @kban Razaekel you aren't on the pro list
11:33:59  *** Webster sets mode: +b *!~asdf@
11:34:01  *** Razaekel was kicked by Webster (you aren't on the pro list)
11:35:09  <Ammler> @topic add Members, please note invites on a51
11:35:09  *** Webster changes topic to " - Advanced #openttdcoop gameplay | #9 (r17814) | STAGE: Building | visit | Members, please note invites on a51"
11:35:10  <Chris_Booth> Ammler: are you sure he isnt on the pro list?
11:35:18  <Ammler> yes :-)
11:35:22  <Chris_Booth> ok
11:35:30  <Ammler> let me check, if you are :-)
11:35:38  <Chris_Booth> i am not
11:35:41  <KenjiE20> technically neither am I, but I think I've bypassed that :P
11:35:54  <Mark> do we have a pro list?
11:35:55  <Ammler> KenjiE20: me neither :-P
11:35:59  <KenjiE20> lol
11:36:11  <Ammler>
11:36:35  <Mark> oh :P
11:36:39  <Chris_Booth> Ammler: what about a bot that allows none pros in the channel, but not voiced?
11:36:57  <KenjiE20> we could do that
11:37:03  <Mark> i did invite some people but never knew about the list.. :P
11:37:05  <Ammler> could is the key ;-)
11:37:06  <KenjiE20> but you'd probably need to register
11:37:17  <Ammler> Mark: is raz one?
11:37:24  <Mark> i dont know :P
11:37:39  <Ammler> well, he can complain....
11:39:02  *** ChanServ sets mode: +nts 
11:39:37  <Ammler> the channel is hidden now, so at least nobody can complain about it is public.
11:40:43  <Ammler> we should move the pro list to wiki
11:41:20  <Ammler>
11:52:12  <Ammler> ok, I made the inital copy :-)
12:35:03  *** [1]Blue has joined
12:35:19  <[1]Blue> !password
12:35:19  <ProZone> [1]Blue: gnomes
12:35:39  <ProZone> *** Blue joined the game
12:37:47  <planetmaker> !info
12:37:48  <ProZone> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Martburg Springs Transport'  Year Founded: 1970  Money: 1496102897  Loan: 0  Value: 1593477689  (T:535, R:7, P:2, S:20) unprotected
12:43:01  <KenjiE20> but you're not supposed to be here :(
12:43:19  <planetmaker> KenjiE20, I invited him so he could watch
12:43:22  <KenjiE20> unless pm, is officially inviting
12:43:32  <KenjiE20> !players
12:43:34  <ProZone> KenjiE20: Client 17 is Blue, a spectator
12:43:44  <planetmaker> might have given the pw myself via private message to him, though
12:44:03  <KenjiE20> that may have been the prudent course
12:44:05  <planetmaker> but that thought didn't occur to me.
12:44:10  <KenjiE20> hehe
12:45:53  <Ammler> I banned raz and pm invited a newbie ;-)
12:46:04  <planetmaker> :-D
12:46:07  <[1]Blue> I joined this channel, then asked for the password with the command... Planetmaker directed me to this channel...
12:46:17  <Ammler> today, we work well together :-P
12:46:19  <[1]Blue> You guys mind if I just watch and learn?
12:46:21  <KenjiE20> lol Ammler
12:46:24  <planetmaker> yes :-) Nothing your fault, [1]Blue
12:46:32  <KenjiE20> no, clearly its pm's
12:46:34  <KenjiE20> :P
12:46:45  <planetmaker> [1]Blue, well... it would mean that we join now and continue to build
12:46:48  <Ammler> [1]Blue: yes, it's fine.
12:46:56  <planetmaker> Looking at my schedule today... unlikely for me to happen.
12:47:28  <Ammler> :-)
12:48:12  <KenjiE20> @voice Chris_Booth Yexo
12:48:12  *** Webster sets mode: +vv Chris_Booth Yexo
12:48:12  *** ChanServ sets mode: +nt 
12:48:20  <KenjiE20> @mode s
12:48:20  *** Webster sets mode: +s 
12:48:27  <KenjiE20> silly chanserv
12:48:31  <KenjiE20> @op Mark
12:48:32  *** Webster sets mode: +o Mark
12:50:53  <Ammler> KenjiE20: never op someone else, didn't we discuss that just ;-)
12:51:03  <KenjiE20> did we?
12:51:16  <Ammler> it could be someone, who stole Mark the nick :-P
12:51:52  <Mark> EXACTLY
12:51:53  <KenjiE20> except this mark's in the alter-verse and his host matches :)
12:51:55  <Mark> KBAN AMMLER
12:52:01  <Ammler>
12:52:13  <Ammler> Mark: quite useless ;-)
12:52:24  <Ammler> you need to be MASTER to ban me :-P
12:52:32  <Mark> oh :P
12:52:41  <KenjiE20> haha
12:53:22  <Ammler> @banme
12:53:39  <Ammler> KenjiE20: didn't you have such a command?
12:53:44  <KenjiE20> it's kbanme
12:53:51  <KenjiE20> or kickme
12:53:53  <Ammler> ah, indeed
12:53:57  <Ammler> @banme
12:54:05  <Ammler> ah
12:54:09  <KenjiE20> *snort* lol
12:54:13  <Ammler> @kbanme
12:54:13  *** Webster sets mode: +b *!
12:54:14  *** Ammler was kicked by Webster (Ammler)
12:54:24  <KenjiE20> yaaay
12:54:27  <KenjiE20> :P
12:56:47  *** Webster sets mode: -b *!
12:57:05  <KenjiE20> aw
12:57:15  *** Ammler has joined
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12:57:25  <KenjiE20> :D
13:01:15  *** Thraxian|Work has joined
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13:02:07  <KenjiE20> btw [1]Blue that was about as exciting as it gets, I'd go back to PS
13:02:09  <KenjiE20> :P
13:03:28  <[1]Blue> Still examining your network :P
13:03:45  <[1]Blue> I'm intrigued by the many different industries in the PZ game
13:04:04  <KenjiE20> FIRS
13:04:54  <[1]Blue> I noticed single ML (LR), why not double??
13:05:32  <KenjiE20> because of the spread of traffic, probably
13:06:09  <[1]Blue> So instead of 1 wide ML you used several smalleer ones?
13:06:44  <KenjiE20> terrain plays a part too
13:07:34  <[1]Blue> As in minimal terraforming?
13:07:35  <KenjiE20> PZ games tend to have much more intricate and fine tuned gameplay
13:08:08  <planetmaker> and PZ games stretch over months... :-P
13:08:23  <Ammler> pz games aren't well planned mostly, but because people knows what to do, it isn't really needed anymore.
13:08:25  <planetmaker> but yes, here the detail-fetishists gather :-)
13:08:57  <planetmaker> well. Often we agree upon a certain game style before we actually start it :-)
13:09:01  <KenjiE20> "omg train 1563 is going 5 tiles too far!!"
13:09:04  <[1]Blue> Good, I like a fully functional network consisting of pure eye-candy
13:09:31  <KenjiE20> eye-candy is pretty much always secondary
13:09:38  <KenjiE20> even here
13:09:49  <Ammler> no
13:09:55  <KenjiE20> although we generally have a better sense of how and where to place
13:09:56  <Ammler> maybe in _this_game
13:10:34  <KenjiE20> depends on your definition of eye-candy I guess
13:11:03  <Ammler> nice looking lines
13:11:16  <Ammler> terraforming for better looking ;-)
13:11:20  <KenjiE20> that's not eye-candy in my book
13:11:33  <[1]Blue> and huge station consisting of more than just the platforms
13:11:34  <Ammler> and nice stations
13:11:56  <[1]Blue> using the correct grfs on the right industry types
13:12:11  <KenjiE20> eye-candy to me, is sacrificing certain elements of free flow, to create a 'realitic' (note tic, not ism) look
13:12:44  <Ammler> KenjiE20: you know the WD games?
13:12:54  <KenjiE20> no?
13:13:02  <[1]Blue> I don't think it's always needed to sacrifice certain game elements though...
13:13:08  <KenjiE20> it's not
13:13:20  <KenjiE20> but this is my personal description
13:13:38  <KenjiE20> the old Oil pickup in 141? was a good showcase
13:13:43  <[1]Blue> and you are entitled to it :p
13:13:43  <KenjiE20> till it got rebuilt
13:14:00  <Ammler> IMO games like WD1+2 are very much eye-candy
13:14:11  <Ammler> or swiss inc
13:14:32  <[1]Blue> I think I'm going to start a new game for myself and try to build a good AND eye-candy-like network :0
13:14:33  <Ammler> dunno, if the prozone has such
13:15:01  <Ammler> [1]Blue: check out archives for MemberZone games.
13:15:14  <KenjiE20> & <-- my games tend to look like that
13:15:18  <Ammler> those are the "Pro"-Progames
13:15:29  <[1]Blue> I want to use NARS 2.0 (amongst others) ... Is it advisable to start as early as 1850 (first trains are available)?
13:15:43  <KenjiE20> the gallery ones are probably more indicitive
13:15:50  <Ammler> well beside trains, there is nothing else so early
13:15:55  <[1]Blue> I'll take a look at that Ammler
13:16:19  <KenjiE20> there's plenty of flow, but it's design and layout is deliberately sub-optimal :)
13:16:26  <[1]Blue> But trains is the part I'ld like to practice with
13:16:35  <Ammler> [1]Blue: MemberZone games are superceded by ProZone
13:17:06  <Ammler> since Members don't play anymore :-(
13:17:24  <KenjiE20> ever
13:17:26  <[1]Blue> The thing is... I do want to upgrade to Maglev when available... Is the conversion do-able when my network is almost complete by that time?
13:17:48  <Ammler> it isn't realistic either
13:17:59  <Ammler> you do add new lines with maglev/monorail
13:18:10  <[1]Blue> No upgrades?
13:18:10  <Ammler> not replace existing ones.
13:18:35  <[1]Blue> But then my main network wouldn't be as fast as it could be would it?
13:18:41  <Ammler> if coop decide to use maglev, it cheats to the year, it is available
13:18:42  * KenjiE20 has only ever upgraded a network from rail to maglev once
13:18:58  <KenjiE20> that took about 3 days solid work, in TTDLX
13:19:17  <Ammler> KenjiE20: ps#33 was upgraded from rail to monorail manually
13:19:34  <KenjiE20> @psgsave 33
13:19:34  <Webster> PSG 33 Archive entry;
13:19:35  <Ammler> with around 300 trains
13:20:12  <[1]Blue> Was it do-able, or did you decide never to do such an upgrade again?
13:20:25  <Ammler> ups 34 it was
13:21:00  <Ammler> [1]Blue: in coop it isn't quite easy, if you have enough people doing it  ;-)
13:21:09  <Ammler> -n't
13:21:25  <ProZone> *** Blue has left the game (leaving)
13:21:43  * KenjiE20 forgets what would've been available tool wise in r<10k
13:22:03  <Ammler> not more than now
13:22:25  <Ammler> depot everything, convert
13:22:26  <KenjiE20> yea, I did it solo in deluxe, with about 200 trains
13:22:28  <KenjiE20> hardcore :P
13:22:43  <Ammler> oh, that meant to remove old tracks?
13:22:45  <KenjiE20> heh, mine was a rolling upgrade
13:22:55  <KenjiE20> yes
13:23:04  <Ammler> well, at least that was realistic.
13:23:04  <KenjiE20> I went section by section
13:23:09  <[1]Blue> WOW :O
13:23:41  <KenjiE20> had to manually catch everything passing through an area and catch it
13:23:47  <KenjiE20> *depot
13:24:15  <KenjiE20> I did end up with no trains running briefly, while the core two junctions got swapped
13:24:36  <KenjiE20> then a trickle release as the maglev track worked it's way out
13:24:48  <[1]Blue> I think I'll just start as early as 1850, build my network (with eyecandy), then try to upgrade it all to Maglev when available...
13:25:12  <[1]Blue> But in COOP upgrading is not-done??
13:25:27  <KenjiE20> not normally
13:25:43  <KenjiE20> coop stuff is usually planned right from the outset
13:26:53  <KenjiE20> I *did* have an idea for PZ invloving IS2, a network rail company, shared backbone track and limited building
13:26:59  <[1]Blue> Are there any GRF's in particular which would give me nice eyecandy stuff?
13:27:24  <KenjiE20> something tells me, it would get a love/hate reaction
13:27:25  <Ammler> those used by coop?
13:27:40  <KenjiE20> ^
13:27:41  <[1]Blue> Yeah, but I can't use all of them at once ;)
13:27:50  <KenjiE20> you can use all the station ones at once
13:28:03  <Ammler> which are mostly for the eyecnady stuff
13:28:27  <[1]Blue> Any use in roads/bridges/tunnels?
13:28:31  <KenjiE20> yup, and add in vehicle sets and eye-candy be ready :)
13:28:46  <Ammler> and swedish houses
13:28:57  <KenjiE20> generally, bridges, you need to work with what works for a trainset
13:28:57  <Ammler> well, all house sets ;-)
13:29:08  <KenjiE20> i.e. Jset shinkansen changes things
13:29:41  <KenjiE20> if rail types/gfx are left, go with TBRS tbh
13:29:42  <[1]Blue> But OTTD mostly gets its buildings (towns) from the first GRF which contains them...
13:29:52  <KenjiE20> not anymore
13:30:04  <KenjiE20> grf list doesn't require much ordering now
13:30:18  <KenjiE20> only to resolve occasional conflicts
13:31:04  <[1]Blue> So... NARS 2.0, Swedish Houses (or more), All Station Sets
13:31:21  <KenjiE20> with NARS, I'd use TTRS
13:31:32  <[1]Blue> A railset?
13:31:33  <KenjiE20> or find the old NATS
13:32:06  <KenjiE20> total town renewal, and north american town, respectively
13:32:15  <KenjiE20> hmm
13:32:18  <KenjiE20> @glossary
13:32:18  <Webster> bananas, bbh, cl, coop, distantjoin, ecs, ecsvectors, ice, is, lb, ll, ml, mm, nars, pax, pbs, pf, prio, prios, ps, roro, rr, rv, rvs, setdef, sl, slh, sml, srnw, stationwalk, stationwalking, tf, tgv, TL, ttt, yapf, h2h, 2cc, psg, msh, 2tt, 3tt, firs
13:32:32  <KenjiE20> yea, thought ttrs wasn't on
13:32:44  * KenjiE20 makes mental note
13:36:40  <[1]Blue> Just one more thing before I start... Electric trains or normal trains?
13:36:56  <KenjiE20> both
13:37:00  <KenjiE20> :)
13:37:25  <[1]Blue> why both? they can't run on eachothers tracks can they?
13:37:26  <KenjiE20> non etrains can run perfectly fine on erail
13:37:36  <KenjiE20> just like in real life
13:37:45  <[1]Blue> but the other way around?
13:37:55  <KenjiE20> diesel doesn't care if there's a power line, so long as the gauge is the same
13:38:02  <[1]Blue> gauge??
13:38:16  <KenjiE20> well obviously, an EMU couldn't run if there's no power
13:38:45  <KenjiE20> gauge is the width of track, always the same in ttd
13:39:29  <Ammler> NACity?
13:39:36  <[1]Blue> but why should i use normal trains then? electric seems to have more advantages..?
13:40:18  <KenjiE20> some diesel's can be better for tractive effort, note can, not always
13:40:20  <Ammler> cheaper?
13:44:07  <Mark> steamers are much cooler
13:45:33  <KenjiE20> in SP I quite like to only electrify high speed/busy lines
13:45:47  <KenjiE20> and run a mix of stuff
13:46:48  <[1]Blue> okay, well, i guess i'm gonna select the above mentioned grf's and start my hopefully succesfull and beautiful empire :D
13:47:24  <KenjiE20> another good place for grf ideas; Screenshots on TT-F
13:49:06  <Mark> KenjiE20: do you really play SP?
13:49:14  <KenjiE20> yup
13:49:25  <KenjiE20> less recently, but I do potter about in SP
13:49:52  <Mark> i stopped SP when i discovered MP :P
13:50:08  <Mark> when i have an idea for a game nowadays i just load it here..
13:51:06  <KenjiE20> a good chunk of how I like to play wouldn't work in MP
13:51:10  <Ammler> then you have your slaves :-P
13:51:32  <Mark> KenjiE20: it might on the PZ
13:51:36  <Mark> (see current game)
13:51:39  <Mark> Ammler: exactly :P
13:52:12  <Ammler> KenjiE20: isn't it WD-style?
13:52:26  <KenjiE20> 14:26:58  @KenjiE20 | I *did* have an idea for PZ invloving IS2, a network rail company, shared backbone track and limited building
13:52:28  <KenjiE20> 14:27:12    @KenjiE20 | something tells me, it would get a love/hate reaction
13:52:49  <KenjiE20> Ammler: I still have no idea what that means
13:52:58  <KenjiE20> you never explained
13:53:02  *** Mark has quit IRC
13:53:11  <Ammler> please check MemberZone Archive
13:53:20  <KenjiE20> I killed Mark's brain :(
13:54:07  <Ammler> your screens looks that way.
13:54:50  *** Mark has joined
13:55:39  <Mark> crappy ubuntu crashed again
13:55:42  <KenjiE20> lemme have a look at the save
13:55:51  <KenjiE20> repaste for Mark;
13:55:53  <KenjiE20> 14:26:58  @KenjiE20 | I *did* have an idea for PZ invloving IS2, a network rail company, shared backbone track and limited building
13:55:55  <KenjiE20> 14:27:12    @KenjiE20 | something tells me, it would get a love/hate reaction
13:56:59  <KenjiE20> Ammler: similar, but not quite
13:57:41  <Ammler> and you think, you wouldn't find people here who would like to play such a game?
13:57:50  <KenjiE20> I never said that
13:58:23  <Ammler> [15:49] <KenjiE20> a good chunk of how I like to play wouldn't work in MP
13:58:58  <Ammler> how would you like to play?
14:00:54  <KenjiE20> much less efficiently than WD :P
14:01:27  <KenjiE20> put it this way, in that 2038 save, most all of my cargo net looses money
14:02:51  *** Progman has joined
14:03:27  <KenjiE20> running on avg. -£60k a year
14:05:01  <KenjiE20> I used about 80% of trains available to me, and run mixed lines
14:05:32  <KenjiE20> and long twisty sections, because it looked cool
14:06:35  <KenjiE20> oh and breakdowns, ofc
14:09:02  <planetmaker> KenjiE20, such game for the PS would be a nice idea with IS2
14:09:11  <planetmaker> Maybe we should go for that somewhen soon :-)
14:09:24  <KenjiE20> I still have the save I was building
14:09:25  <planetmaker> and order a new build of the IS2 repository
14:09:37  <planetmaker> we should use a new one :-)
14:09:45  <KenjiE20> I can finish off what I wanted to finish if you want to have a go
14:09:47  <planetmaker> Repo changed since last release quite a bit afaik
14:10:08  <planetmaker> No rush. But I'll see to get maybe a build by openttd's CF
14:10:15  <KenjiE20> essentially, network rail own and operate the main backbone lines, and the bigger stations
14:10:21  <planetmaker> you have / prepare a map of choice?
14:10:35  <KenjiE20> franchises are free to build smaller lines and stations, where allowed
14:10:35  <planetmaker> and the others the branch lines?
14:10:40  <KenjiE20> and run trains on the ML
14:10:42  <planetmaker> sounds like fun
14:10:45  <planetmaker> to me
14:11:00  <KenjiE20> oh and ML will allowed mixed runs
14:11:12  <planetmaker> what do you mean with "mixed"?
14:11:19  <KenjiE20> but there are yards along the way for filtering and prioritising into bottlenecks
14:11:46  * KenjiE20 grabs a screen
14:11:52  <planetmaker> uh... that sounds complicated :-)
14:12:09  <KenjiE20> yes
14:12:26  <KenjiE20> quite
14:12:29  <planetmaker> train lengths and / or speed filters?
14:12:34  <planetmaker> or what kind?
14:12:39  <KenjiE20> speed, mostly
14:12:46  <planetmaker> I know those two.
14:12:47  <planetmaker> ok
14:13:19  <KenjiE20> <--
14:13:36  <KenjiE20> one of the control yards, for entering the bottleneck
14:15:08  <KenjiE20> (same map that "THE BEAST" was on)
14:16:10  <KenjiE20> so same restriction zones, and about 4 or 5of those bottlenecks
15:08:50  <Chris_Booth> @kickme
15:08:50  *** Chris_Booth was kicked by Webster (Chris_Booth)
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15:33:42  *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest120
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16:57:09  <Mark> Chris_Booth: try @banme too
16:57:55  <KenjiE20> it's kbanme, and I think he was here when petert did it, with hilarious results :P
17:01:25  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
17:01:27  <ProZone> *** tneo joined the game
17:01:35  <tneo> !pause
17:01:35  <ProZone> *** tneo has paused the server.
17:01:37  <ProZone> *** Game paused (not enough players)
17:02:13  <ProZone> *** tneo has left the game (leaving)
17:33:44  <KenjiE20> shouldn't that be auto?
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18:37:33  <Ammler> tneo: why !pause?
18:38:34  <Ammler> well you guys should know how to unpause again
18:44:02  <^Spike^> eh...
18:44:06  <^Spike^> with !die?
18:44:08  <^Spike^> :)
18:44:16  <^Spike^> or was it !quit? :)
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19:28:03  <Chris_Booth> @voice
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19:30:12  <Chris_Booth> @whoami
19:30:13  <Webster> Chris_Booth: I don't recognize you.
19:31:22  <planetmaker> @voice Chris_Booth
19:31:22  *** Webster sets mode: +v Chris_Booth
19:31:49  <Chris_Booth> why didnt webster voice me?
19:32:27  <planetmaker> @users
19:32:56  <Chris_Booth> @users
19:33:03  <planetmaker> wrong command ;-)
19:33:07  <planetmaker> I guess
19:33:08  <Chris_Booth> webster wont voice me in .dev either
19:33:14  <Chris_Booth> @whoami
19:33:14  <Webster> Chris_Booth: I don't recognize you.
19:33:23  <planetmaker> ^ you should then identify to it.
19:33:34  <planetmaker> @identify
19:33:39  <planetmaker> --> @identify
19:33:52  <Chris_Booth> @identify
19:33:58  <planetmaker> hehe
19:34:22  <KenjiE20> lulz
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