Log for on 30th October 2011:
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06:55:14  *** ODM has joined
06:55:14  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM
07:32:41  *** Progman has joined
07:51:17  *** TWerkhoven has joined
14:40:19  *** mfb- has joined
14:40:19  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb-
14:40:26  <mfb-> hi
14:40:45  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
14:40:45  <ProZone> *** mfb joined the game
14:44:53  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000190EA:
14:51:33  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0001151D:
15:03:32  <V453000> !password
15:03:32  <ProZone> V453000: newton
15:03:47  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
15:03:47  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:03:49  <ProZone> <V453000> hi
15:03:50  <ProZone> *** V453000 joined the game
15:03:53  <mfb-> hi
15:04:12  <ProZone> <V453000> mfb that is no injection, just a test how far apart do TL1s need to be
15:04:24  <ProZone> <mfb> ah
15:04:26  <ProZone> <V453000> which isnt complete since it needs a lot of adjusting :/
15:05:10  *** LoPo has joined
15:05:14  <LoPo> !password
15:05:14  <ProZone> LoPo: newton
15:05:34  <ProZone> <mfb> what about the usual 5.x tiles between trains?
15:05:36  <ProZone> *** LoPo joined the game
15:05:41  <ProZone> <V453000> you should stay in the channel as well as #openttdcoop :p hi
15:05:48  <ProZone> <V453000> I guess
15:05:54  <ProZone> <LoPo> hi ^^
15:06:02  <ProZone> <V453000> but if you count it, you need 5 (right?) tiles behind one TL5
15:06:12  <ProZone> <V453000> so add at least 2 more tiles for TL1
15:06:14  <ProZone> <V453000> 8?
15:06:26  <ProZone> <mfb> ?
15:06:33  <ProZone> <mfb> 1TL1, train spacing, 1TL5, train spacing
15:06:35  <ProZone> <mfb> repeat
15:06:54  <ProZone> <mfb> with "train spacing" somewhere near 5 tiles
15:07:04  <ProZone> <V453000> you dont need that much space behind TL1
15:07:10  <ProZone> <V453000> as it doesnt get longer in the diagonal
15:07:28  <ProZone> <mfb> ok, right
15:07:34  <ProZone> <mfb> so two different spacings
15:07:50  <ProZone> <V453000> sort of
15:08:14  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000F523:
15:09:24  <ProZone> <V453000> could make the TL1s without the wagon for a tiny bit better performance, but I think it is nice to have it there so we know
15:10:06  <ProZone> <V453000> clever test :)
15:10:11  <mfb-> !pause
15:10:11  <ProZone> *** mfb- has paused the server.
15:10:12  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:10:21  <mfb-> !auto
15:10:21  <ProZone> *** mfb- has enabled autopause mode.
15:10:23  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:10:31  <ProZone> <V453000> the commands should work in game too
15:10:32  <mfb-> !pause
15:10:32  <ProZone> *** mfb- has paused the server.
15:10:33  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:10:35  <mfb-> ok
15:10:41  <ProZone> <mfb> 4 tiles now
15:10:43  <ProZone> *** mfb has enabled autopause mode.
15:10:45  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:10:45  <ProZone> <V453000> yes
15:10:57  <ProZone> <mfb> slow down
15:10:59  <ProZone> <mfb> 4 tiles minimum
15:11:01  <ProZone> <V453000> did it?
15:11:03  <ProZone> <V453000> ok
15:11:23  <ProZone> <mfb> better 4.5
15:11:34  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0001C6E8:
15:11:35  <ProZone> <LoPo> nice things :)
15:12:13  <ProZone> *** mfb has paused the server.
15:12:15  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:12:19  <ProZone> *** mfb has enabled autopause mode.
15:12:21  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:12:25  <ProZone> <V453000> 6?
15:12:31  <ProZone> <mfb> let's see
15:12:37  <ProZone> <mfb> still enough
15:12:40  <ProZone> <V453000> 5 should be the number I think
15:12:50  <ProZone> <V453000> as pzg13 had 5  iirc
15:12:52  <ProZone> *** mfb has paused the server.
15:12:54  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:13:02  <ProZone> <mfb> 4.8 or something like that
15:13:02  <ProZone> *** mfb has enabled autopause mode.
15:13:04  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:13:04  <ProZone> <V453000> yes
15:13:04  <ProZone> <LoPo> now its almost 4
15:13:06  <ProZone> <V453000> :)
15:13:12  <ProZone> <LoPo> so 5 i think
15:13:18  <ProZone> <mfb> and slow down
15:13:20  <ProZone> <mfb> 5
15:13:30  <ProZone> <V453000> well that isnt a big difference :D
15:13:37  <ProZone> <mfb> 4.5 and 5.5 maybe
15:13:51  <ProZone> <mfb> +5+1 are 16 tiles per TL1
15:14:02  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm, that is tricky for injections
15:14:12  <ProZone> <V453000> why?
15:14:22  <ProZone> <mfb> you need a very good timing then
15:14:30  <ProZone> <V453000> not so sure
15:14:54  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000FF28:
15:16:18  <ProZone> <mfb> the TL5 injection
15:16:52  <ProZone> <mfb> btw. how do you send all trains to the depot?
15:17:02  <ProZone> <LoPo> all?
15:17:04  <ProZone> <V453000> what do you mean?
15:17:06  <ProZone> <LoPo> in the train list
15:17:12  <ProZone> <LoPo> at service
15:17:16  <ProZone> <mfb> ah
15:17:19  <ProZone> <LoPo> Manage list i mena
15:17:21  <ProZone> *** V453000 has paused the server.
15:17:23  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:17:27  <ProZone> <V453000> duh its slow
15:17:27  <ProZone> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
15:17:29  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:17:31  <ProZone> *** V453000 has paused the server.
15:17:33  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
15:17:33  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm well that requires a train group
15:17:41  <ProZone> <V453000> 16 tiles between the two trains
15:17:47  <ProZone> <V453000> or shared orders
15:17:50  <ProZone> <mfb> =5+5+6
15:18:11  <ProZone> <LoPo> if they cant find a depot on route they will not go to one
15:18:15  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000FB1C:
15:18:17  <ProZone> <V453000> this makes 16 tile gap
15:18:23  <ProZone> <V453000> which should not be able to get smaller
15:18:29  <ProZone> <V453000> in some lucky moment it would
15:18:47  <ProZone> <mfb> well, as long as we continue to inject trains it is fine
15:18:58  <ProZone> <mfb> after that: use prios
15:19:09  <ProZone> <mfb> same result
15:19:13  <ProZone> <V453000> question is where do we actually use this gap
15:19:20  <ProZone> <V453000> it cant be on the ML
15:19:23  <ProZone> <mfb> ?
15:19:57  <ProZone> <V453000> well I suppose we should have some sort of TL1gap regulator
15:20:10  <mfb-> where, how?
15:20:18  <ProZone> <mfb> why?
15:20:24  <ProZone> <LoPo> do you mean to make the gap?
15:20:35  <ProZone> <V453000> well if we expect everything to work 100%, then it is fine. But if anything slow downs anywhere, we need to rearrange the gaps
15:20:49  <ProZone> <mfb> well, that injection can do it
15:20:55  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeah we probably need that
15:20:57  <ProZone> *** mfb has enabled autopause mode.
15:20:59  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
15:21:01  <ProZone> <V453000> where do you put the injection then
15:21:05  <ProZone> <V453000> this cannot be on the ML
15:21:14  <XeryusTC> logic game?
15:21:19  <ProZone> <V453000> and how do TL1s get out of the ML then, split them in some area?
15:21:24  <ProZone> <V453000> XeryusTC: I told you :p
15:21:35  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0001011E:
15:22:04  <ProZone> <V453000> but where do the TL1 come from mfb?
15:22:19  <ProZone> <mfb> in case of emergency, from the ML
15:22:29  <ProZone> <V453000> how do you recognize that time
15:22:33  <ProZone> <V453000> manually?
15:22:40  <ProZone> <mfb> "omg jam everywhere!!"
15:23:06  <ProZone> <LoPo> cant you just make a "repacker" at some points on the ML
15:23:06  <ProZone> *** XeryusTC joined the game
15:23:18  <ProZone> <mfb> what to do with the cargo trains there?
15:23:20  <ProZone> *** XeryusTC has left the game (leaving)
15:23:26  <ProZone> <V453000> LoPo: you can, but .. :|
15:24:01  <ProZone> <LoPo> well, you have them or not, but that "repacker"works with and without them
15:24:11  <ProZone> <V453000> the thing is, it does not have to jam completely, just one or two could get out of position by a slowdown
15:24:18  <ProZone> <V453000> will we recognize it then?
15:24:20  <ProZone> <LoPo> and basicle replacing the origine of the TL1 trains
15:24:22  <ProZone> <mfb> that repacker needs to take care of the cargo trains somehow
15:24:36  <ProZone> <V453000> repacker is impossible I think
15:24:42  <ProZone> <mfb> we see it, as it will cause problems everywhere ;)
15:24:44  <ProZone> <LoPo> you will still recognize them
15:24:46  <ProZone> <V453000> or well, is possible ,but major pain
15:24:55  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0001011F:
15:24:56  <ProZone> <LoPo> becasue your counting
15:24:58  <mfb-> hmm
15:25:13  <mfb-> an idea...
15:25:23  <ProZone> <LoPo> the info is in the order of trains not in distance etc..
15:25:34  <ProZone> <mfb> no orders
15:25:40  <ProZone> <LoPo> so slowdowns / accel should not matter
15:25:46  <ProZone> <V453000> order as place where they are
15:26:04  <ProZone> <LoPo> i mean the "order" of trains; not their orders
15:26:14  <ProZone> <mfb> ah ;)
15:26:19  <ProZone> <LoPo> so Ore/Steel/Goods etc...
15:26:49  <ProZone> <V453000> I think it would be possible to make a re-packer but it would be a major pain
15:26:51  <ProZone> <LoPo> imo the system should be able to have more than 1 train in between the TL1 ;P
15:27:01  <ProZone> <LoPo> but that will be much harder to build
15:27:23  <ProZone> <V453000> LoPo: actually, why would it be harder
15:27:29  <ProZone> <LoPo> well, the TL1 must have a starting point
15:27:35  <ProZone> <V453000> yes
15:27:49  <ProZone> <LoPo> well maybe its not harder
15:27:55  <ProZone> <V453000> but the TL1  nor the TL1 counters do not care if there is one or five TL5 trains behind it
15:27:57  <ProZone> <LoPo> but uhmm :P nvm
15:28:03  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye
15:28:10  <ProZone> <LoPo> so problem solved? :)
15:28:13  <ProZone> <V453000> so it wouldnt be that bad
15:28:15  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000A142:
15:28:34  <ProZone> <V453000> no, problem is the same
15:28:41  <ProZone> <V453000> you still need to be able to automatically keep TL1 spacing
15:29:05  <ProZone> <V453000> more TL5 trains for TL1 just means more TL1 trains, therefore makes them more spaced out, but does not change the issue
15:29:15  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye i see the point
15:29:31  <ProZone> <LoPo> but why would the TL1 train get closer to each other?
15:29:53  <ProZone> <V453000> in ideal case it wouldnt
15:30:07  <ProZone> <V453000> but when building something somewhere, trains slow down, instant issue
15:30:21  <ProZone> <V453000> but we could allow build while paused  ... if that works without desyncs
15:30:31  <ProZone> <LoPo> hmmm
15:30:33  <ProZone> <V453000> that might help a lot
15:30:49  <ProZone> <V453000> in such case we should be able to keep the distances if we keep ML lengths
15:31:17  <ProZone> <V453000> it is PZ game after all, we should be able to do it precisely
15:31:31  <ProZone> <LoPo> aha
15:31:36  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00009B52:
15:31:45  <V453000> !rcon set build_while_paused
15:31:45  <ProZone> V453000: 'build_while_paused' is an unknown setting.
15:31:52  <V453000> !rcon set build_on_pause
15:31:52  <ProZone> V453000: 'build_on_pause' is an unknown setting.
15:32:02  <V453000> !rcon list pause
15:32:02  <ProZone> V453000: ERROR: command not found
15:32:09  <V453000> !list pause
15:32:32  <V453000> !rcon command_pause_level = 1
15:32:32  <ProZone> V453000: ERROR: command not found
15:32:36  <V453000> !rcon set command_pause_level = 1
15:32:36  <ProZone> V453000: - Change setting for all clients. Usage: 'setting <name> [<value>]'
15:32:36  <ProZone> V453000: - Omitting <value> will print out the current value of the setting.
15:32:40  <V453000> !rcon set command_pause_level
15:32:41  <ProZone> V453000: Current value for 'command_pause_level' is: '1' (min: 0, max: 3)
15:32:43  <V453000> !rcon set command_pause_level 3
15:32:43  <ProZone> V453000: ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games.
15:32:48  <V453000> right
15:33:23  <ProZone> <V453000> what do you think mfb?
15:33:47  <mfb-> keep the ML right :)
15:33:55  <ProZone> <V453000> fine
15:34:01  <ProZone> <V453000> then lets just make the TL1 initial injector
15:34:07  <ProZone> <V453000> and play safe
15:34:30  <ProZone> <V453000> I will allow the build on pause and magic dozer later
15:34:44  <ProZone> <V453000> (wondering which of them will I forget)
15:34:56  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00009F53:
15:38:16  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00009750:
15:38:30  <ProZone> <V453000> I am not sure what is that supposed to do :)
15:38:44  <ProZone> <mfb> repacker idea
15:38:48  <ProZone> <V453000> if we need only injection in the very beginning when starting the ML, we do not need it
15:38:50  <ProZone> <V453000> ah
15:38:52  <ProZone> <V453000> hm ok
15:40:06  <ProZone> <mfb> oh, wait...
15:40:08  <ProZone> <mfb> that was stupid
15:41:36  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00007B50:
15:42:11  <ProZone> <LoPo> but in priciple the ML TL1 trains are a cycle
15:42:43  <ProZone> <LoPo> so when there is some space lacking somewhere else there should be additional space...
15:44:56  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00008B4B:
15:48:16  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000AD50:
15:48:57  <ProZone> <mfb> ok
15:49:07  <ProZone> <mfb> no train stopper now
15:49:13  <ProZone> <mfb> but as long as there are trains, it should work
15:49:28  <ProZone> <LoPo> aha
15:51:37  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00008952:
15:52:12  <ProZone> <mfb> ah, wrong counts
15:53:51  <ProZone> <mfb> oh, and can we use ore->steel->goods as order?
15:53:54  <ProZone> <mfb> it is just more... natural
15:54:08  <ProZone> <LoPo> ofc
15:54:57  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00009D48:
16:01:37  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00009944:
16:02:43  <ProZone> <LoPo> does the probability drop split v1 work? :P
16:02:55  <ProZone> <mfb> it should
16:03:17  <ProZone> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
16:03:58  <ProZone> <LoPo> hmmm
16:04:31  <ProZone> <LoPo> ah
16:04:50  <ProZone> <LoPo> now i see it :)
16:04:57  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000152E9:
16:05:56  <ProZone> <LoPo> darn :P
16:06:02  <ProZone> <LoPo> k
16:08:18  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0000ACA1:
16:11:40  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00014ACF:
16:16:48  <ProZone> <LoPo> weird :S
16:16:54  <ProZone> <mfb> waypoint for ML?
16:18:59  <mfb-> @clcalc rail 230
16:18:59  <Webster> mfb-: Required CL for rail at 230km/h is 7 (12 half tiles) or TL
16:20:41  <ProZone> <LoPo> hmmm
16:20:44  <ProZone> <LoPo> i dont get it :P
16:21:38  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000140DA:
16:23:24  <mfb-> what?
16:23:34  <ProZone> <mfb> ah
16:23:46  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye i think i see it :P
16:24:07  <ProZone> <LoPo> the "split" is the straight track
16:24:41  <ProZone> <mfb> no
16:24:47  <ProZone> <LoPo> no?
16:24:58  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000154DD:
16:25:34  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm strange
16:25:40  <ProZone> <mfb> it slows down
16:25:54  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeah becuase its not failsave
16:25:58  <ProZone> <mfb> it is
16:26:06  <ProZone> <LoPo> ah o
16:26:08  <ProZone> <LoPo> hehe :P
16:26:10  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeh k
16:26:52  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm timing is bad
16:27:33  <ProZone> <mfb> maybe we have to freeze the decision
16:27:35  <ProZone> <LoPo> and now it works
16:27:41  <ProZone> <mfb> because it is 100% split
16:27:47  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye
16:28:05  <ProZone> <LoPo> yes, but i was talking about the TL1 dudes...
16:28:15  <ProZone> <mfb> I gave them a dummy order
16:28:19  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00014AE5:
16:28:22  <ProZone> <LoPo> ow
16:28:41  <ProZone> <LoPo> k but
16:29:05  <ProZone> <LoPo> hmmmm
16:29:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> lol :P
16:29:33  <ProZone> <LoPo> it works fine now
16:30:01  <ProZone> <LoPo> still some slowdowns but.. meh
16:31:27  <mfb-> not meh
16:31:39  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000184D5:
16:31:39  <mfb-> we rely on precise spacings on the ML
16:31:50  <mfb-> we may not have -any- slow down there
16:31:58  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye i know
16:32:10  <mfb-> not even for one train in 1000
16:32:42  <ProZone> <LoPo> ah
16:32:48  <ProZone> <LoPo> TL = 5.5
16:32:54  <ProZone> <LoPo> maybe thats the problem
16:33:21  <ProZone> <LoPo> ow
16:33:23  <ProZone> <LoPo> hu!
16:34:04  <mfb-> ...
16:34:51  <ProZone> <LoPo> well the train is not precice 5
16:34:59  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000176DF:
16:35:02  <ProZone> <LoPo> although the depot says it...
16:38:19  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000150CF:
16:41:17  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeah, that might give problems
16:41:23  <ProZone> <LoPo> those trains are longer that 5
16:41:29  <ProZone> <mfb> ah
16:41:40  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000186FD:
16:41:47  <ProZone> <LoPo> so :P
16:57:26  <ProZone> <LoPo> k i have made some new trains now
16:57:33  <ProZone> <LoPo> they should be TL5
16:58:20  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 000144E0:
17:15:14  <ProZone> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
17:15:14  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
17:19:03  <ProZone> *** LoPo has left the game (leaving)
21:02:31  <LoPo> !password
21:02:31  <ProZone> LoPo: flaked
21:02:55  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:02:58  <ProZone> *** LoPo joined the game
21:11:42  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 00018704:
21:12:10  <ProZone> *** LoPo has left the game (leaving)
21:42:27  *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined
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23:16:34  *** Progman has quit IRC
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