Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 30th May 2011:
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00:02:11  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has left the game (connection lost)
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00:42:40  <Stablean> <Anson> seems i got carried away a bit when i was tired this morning and was running myself on half-automatic ... feeling like i willö get a cold soon
00:43:02  <Stablean> <Anson> my attempt at building a goods station was a bit .... oh well :-)
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03:41:36  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo
03:41:38  <Stablean> <Sylf> ello
03:42:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> hrm, much of the map is already filled...
03:42:11  <Stablean> <Anson> seems i got carried away a bit when i was tired last morning and started to build some doods service :-)
03:45:47  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i just finished "my new splitter :-)" ... had a double mainline splitting to 2 lines and 2 stations
03:45:49  <Stablean> <Sylf> there's still plenty to play with :)
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03:46:25  <Stablean> <Anson> it worked very well, even though i had only used even level crossings and PBS
03:47:30  <Stablean> <Anson> with my current amount of trains, there was no bigger jam, but at most 3-4 trains waiting when a train crossed the other rail
03:52:46  <Stablean> <Anson> amounts of cargo are insane at this age
03:52:55  <Stablean> <Sylf> it can be
03:53:09  <Stablean> <Anson> i have a single rubber plantation which gives more than a million :-)
04:14:09  <Stablean> <Sylf> Now I'm going nuts on expanding the network
04:19:33  <Stablean> <Anson> i am desperate on finding which is the "best" train and car
04:19:52  <Stablean> <Sylf> that really depends...
04:20:30  <Stablean> <Sylf> EH40 Masai of course is the fastest general loco
04:20:40  <Stablean> <Anson> the capacity of all wagons is only given as absolute number ... but with all the varying TL, that tells almost nothing :-(
04:20:46  <Stablean> <Sylf> WAM-12 is almost as fast, and has even more horsepower
04:21:13  <Stablean> <Sylf> Class 20E really gives pretty good power for good towing
04:21:32  <Stablean> <Sylf> 3C EX AC is of course a monster, but slow
04:21:50  <Stablean> <Anson> i saw the AT12 and it looks nice ... max speed for 160 kmh rails :-) and 572 tractive effort
04:22:24  <Stablean> <Sylf> Then, for food and goods, nothing really beats Tropic Refurbishment's Container Car
04:22:30  <Stablean> <Sylf> instant load, instand unload
04:22:40  <Stablean> <Sylf> and pretty good load volume too
04:22:54  <Stablean> <Anson> instant ? where can i see that ? or do i have to read forums and readme's for that ?
04:23:20  <Stablean> <Sylf> I just know it from experience
04:24:08  <Stablean> <Sylf> To see it in person see Newcastle station
04:24:10  <Stablean> <Anson> there should be lots more info in the display when selecting wagons
04:24:44  <Stablean> <Anson> like that additional info (load instantly), or also the length and the capacity per tile
04:25:10  <Stablean> <Sylf> those are something you'll have to learn through experience
04:25:25  <Stablean> <Sylf> There aren't that many to learn
04:25:37  <Stablean> <Anson> i just bought a few cars to make trains <= 5 tiles ... box car with capacity 18 allows 16 cars for a total of 288,
04:26:13  <Stablean> <Anson> next bigger is 25, 13 cars, total of 325 ... next is 32, but only 11 cars, and thus total 352
04:26:47  <Stablean> <Anson> and then another type of box car: 34 capacity, but only 10 cars, and thus total only 340 !!!
04:29:21  <Stablean> <Anson> i also hate it when a car is refittable, but i have no idea about its capacity until i have bought and refitted it
04:32:31  <Stablean> <Anson> what do you think of the AT12 train ... with speed 160 (for high speed rails) and a giant 571 tractive effort for good accelaration of filled trains
04:33:37  <Stablean> <Anson> the CT60 is very fast (300 kmh) but only has 207 tractive effort and thus probably takes too long for acceleration after it is stopped somewhere ?
04:33:40  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's a good loco... but you don't need that much TE for acceleration
04:33:58  <Stablean> <Sylf> CT60 can only pull pax and diamonds wagons
04:34:26  <Stablean> <Sylf> For acceleration, you need to have a good balance of horsepower and TE
04:34:40  <Stablean> <Sylf> for that, AT12 is fine
04:34:42  <Stablean> <Anson> ARGS ... that is what i meant about mssing info in the "buy car" dialog
04:34:58  <Stablean> <Sylf> ?
04:35:08  <Stablean> <Sylf> HP is displayed there
04:35:22  <Stablean> <Sylf> Like, AT12 has 7097hp
04:38:52  <Stablean> <Anson> GRF ERROR !!!!!
04:39:00  <Stablean> <Anson> text is :
04:39:06  <Stablean> <Sylf> I know
04:39:16  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's been known
04:39:27  <Stablean> <Anson> NewGRF tropic refurbishment set v0.3.1 provides incorrect information
04:39:55  <Stablean> <Anson> cargo/refit info for AT12 differs from purchase list after construction
04:41:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's not gonna kill us
04:41:11  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's not gonna kill the game
04:41:21  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's safely ignorable
04:42:17  <Stablean> <Anson> quite a few times, i couldn't replace vehicles in another game
04:42:24  <Stablean> <Anson> might be such errors were the cause ?
04:43:16  <Stablean> <Sylf> nope
04:43:55  <Stablean> <Sylf> if the game refuses to replace one vehicle with another, the cause is something else
04:44:07  <Stablean> <Anson> the error message said that it might cause autorenew/replace to work incorrectly
04:44:09  <Stablean> <Sylf> like cargo incompatibility
04:44:19  <Stablean> <Sylf> really, it works fine
04:48:22  <Stablean> <Anson> the AT12 transports oil ? or is that some special function of the vehicle ?
04:49:11  <Stablean> <Sylf> AT12 doesn't trasport anything - it's just a locomotive
04:49:31  <Stablean> <Anson> capacity = 35000 litres of oil !!!!!
04:51:02  <Stablean> <Sylf> that's a glitch
04:51:06  <Stablean> <Sylf> I wouldn't count on it
04:51:33  <Stablean> <Sylf> and I really wouldn't use that loco, if there's that kind of bug in this climate
04:51:43  <Stablean> <Anson> on the other hand, it would be a good idea (not only for this train) to use "full load ANY CARGO :-)
04:52:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> seriously, you'd be better off finding another loco
04:53:45  <Stablean> <Anson> you told me that CT60 can't transport rubber, which leaves only 4 other locos at 160+
04:54:10  <Stablean> <Sylf> I told you, EH40 is good, so is WAM-12
04:54:21  <Stablean> <Sylf> Class 91 isn't too shabby either
04:54:30  <Stablean> <Sylf> or is it Class 90....
04:54:54  <Stablean> <Sylf> and Class 20E really is a goood loco too
04:56:01  <Stablean> <Anson> checked the list three times and couldn't find EH40
04:56:52  <Stablean> <Sylf> sort the available train list be max speed
04:57:22  <Stablean> <Anson> i did ... first check with max speed, second with name, third with max speed again
04:58:19  <Stablean> <Sylf> EH '40' Masai, max speed 250km/h
04:58:21  <Stablean> <Sylf> it's there
04:59:55  <Stablean> <Anson> new rail vehicle, sorted by speed, read from bottom to top : thre break vans, the CT60, and then immediately after that 4-6-2 Streak (185 kmh), and the 5 locos with 160 kmh
05:00:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> oh
05:00:17  <Stablean> <Sylf> make sure you have electrified train depot
05:00:43  <Stablean> <Anson> ah, is it electric ? and i my whole network is only high speed w/o cat
05:01:02  <Stablean> <Sylf> then your option is much more limited
05:01:24  <Stablean> <Sylf> Deltic probably is your next best bet
05:01:38  <Stablean> <Sylf> If it's in UKRS2
05:02:01  <Stablean> <Anson> how important is the tractive effort ? i saw lots of my trains accelerating very slowly, losing lots of speed when loaded, and also very slow uphill
05:02:04  <Stablean> <Sylf> just use 2 EE Deltic per train
05:02:23  <Stablean> <Sylf> if they slow down, just use 2 or 3 locos per train
05:02:29  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's an easy solution
05:02:51  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's even done in real life
05:03:07  <Stablean> <Anson> in this game, costs is no more a problem :-) but otherwise, 2 or 3 locos double or triple the running costs
05:03:21  <Stablean> <Sylf> yes
05:03:27  <Stablean> <Sylf> But it's done often in this game too
05:04:17  <Stablean> <Anson> deltic has 224 effort, 2 would have 448 ... that's why i chose the AT12 with 571 ... but it already has double length (1 TL instead of 0.5 TL)
05:04:39  <Stablean> <Sylf> stop arguing
05:04:45  <Stablean> <Sylf> start playing and start learning from experience
05:04:51  <Stablean> <Sylf> it's really the best way to learn
05:05:18  <Stablean> <Sylf> It's just, personally, that display about oil capacity will definitely keep me away from that loco in this climate
05:05:28  <Stablean> <Sylf> anyway, I'm off
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07:17:15  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
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07:37:43  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo
07:37:51  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
07:37:59  <Stablean> <Anson> just finished autoreplacing all trains ... quite a jam
07:38:18  <Stablean> <V453000> reaplacing this long trains to the weak masais might not be the best choice :)
07:38:20  <Stablean> <Anson> and with the new longer trains, there are still some more small "slowdowns"
07:38:45  <Stablean> <Anson> the trains were length 5 only
07:38:55  <Stablean> <V453000> are they now? :D
07:39:01  <Stablean> <Anson> but shorter cars, and thus they are now 7 tiles
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07:39:19  <Stablean> <V453000> you know autoreplacing has "remove wagons" ,right?
07:39:33  <Stablean> <Anson> yes, but its workings are a bit strange :-)
07:39:42  <Stablean> <V453000> no, it works perfectly
07:40:02  <Stablean> <Anson> i read somewhere that the last wagon would be removed when using a double engine
07:40:17  <Stablean> <V453000> of course
07:40:20  <Stablean> <V453000> so that you keep train length
07:40:45  <Stablean> <Anson> but in reality, the trainlength is first rounded up to the next integer, and then all wagons are removed that would make the train exceed that length
07:41:41  <Stablean> <V453000> autoreplace worked always perfectly for me.
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08:09:26  <Stablean> <V453000> hi :p
08:09:32  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> ello
08:19:29  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> anythin interesting happen recently?
08:19:49  <Stablean> <V453000> dunno, I just replaced all my trains to dualhead and I am waiting for them to unjam
08:20:25  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> always fun
08:20:33  <Stablean> <V453000> sure is
08:20:36  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> can you use auto-replace for that btw?
08:20:43  <Stablean> <V453000> no
08:20:53  <Stablean> <V453000> but there are some techniques in the depot to make it faster
08:20:53  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> didnt think so
08:20:55  <Stablean> <V453000> but still manual
08:22:54  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> i get to manually add a wagon and refit it for every train
08:23:00  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> luckily i don't have that many trains yet
08:23:18  <Stablean> <V453000> it is better to make one long train of wagons
08:23:24  <Stablean> <V453000> and then ctrl+click when moving them in the depot
08:23:33  <Stablean> <V453000> which moves the whole tail
08:23:50  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> oooh, new thing learned then
08:35:31  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> and from the looks of things itll be time to change my drop as well
08:35:45  <Stablean> <V453000> not getting the CT60? :(
08:35:59  <Stablean> <V453000> the 300kmh engine
08:36:05  <Stablean> <V453000> compatible with diamonds
08:36:21  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> maybe when the wagons are replaced and a new station is in place
08:36:33  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
08:37:00  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> right now it jams once a certain amount of engines has been replaced, and the remainer gets stuck in the depots unless i help them
08:37:12  <Stablean> <V453000> I have jams like everywhere now
08:37:25  <Stablean> <V453000> the fast engines and slowly unloading wagons just changed stations tremendously
08:38:14  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> hehe
08:38:25  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> you could stick to slower track for a bit
08:38:29  <Stablean> <V453000> no :p
08:38:31  <Stablean> <V453000> boring
08:39:49  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> hehe
08:40:16  <Stablean> <V453000> well apart from "boring" it is also nice to see if the upgrade actually helped (enough)
08:40:28  <Stablean> <V453000> or I could just upgrade back to fast rails and see that it actually didnt
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08:41:00  <V453000> hm this doesnt help either :D
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08:46:56  <Stablean> <V453000> finally :D
08:47:07  <Stablean> <V453000> took only 2 or 3 disconnects to build a damn drop :D
09:25:39  <Stablean> <V453000> is there no end tho the jams? :D
09:25:44  <Stablean> <V453000> *to
09:32:37  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> not for a while it seems
09:32:53  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo ... new lesson learned : parallel bridges only are good if traffic is fast ... they cause more jams when there is a little stop once
09:33:57  <Stablean> <Anson> at least for fast trains (250), TL 7, and bridge length 4
09:34:54  <Stablean> <V453000> Anson: yes, we call it "evil mode"
09:35:12  <Stablean> <V453000> double bridges are always good, but you are expected not to have jams ;)
09:35:34  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> signle bridge wont be any better/worse when theres jams
09:35:47  <Stablean> <V453000> so the problem is not double bridges but your drop station is the cause
09:37:33  <TWerkhoven> !gap 3 9
09:37:33  <Stablean> TWerkhoven: You need 2 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 9.
09:37:40  <TWerkhoven> !gap 3 10
09:37:40  <Stablean> TWerkhoven: You need 3 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 10.
09:39:56  <Stablean> <V453000> and the super weak trains dont help either of course :)
09:41:06  <Stablean> <Anson> when i try to clean up a jam manually, i often stop a train, simulating a traffic light that gives right of way to 3-6 trains in a row, then for the other direction
09:41:23  <Stablean> <Anson> did you already try to create some logics to simulate that ?
09:41:31  <Stablean> <V453000> yes, there are some
09:41:33  <Stablean> <V453000> but as I said
09:41:36  <Stablean> <V453000> fix your drop station
09:41:51  <Stablean> <V453000> trains probably slow down there
09:42:05  <Stablean> <Anson> i just have something like that here where three lines join on a single main line
09:43:02  <Stablean> <Anson> in the other direction, there are large gaps between trains when they drive full speed. but in this direction, they alternate in stoppoing and accelerating :-(
09:43:16  <Stablean> <V453000> ye
09:43:24  <Stablean> <V453000> because playing with badly accelerating trains is extremely hard
09:43:43  <Stablean> <V453000> and you obviously have no means to prevent them from slowing down
09:44:30  <Stablean> <Anson> would be nice if trains could slow down in front of a busy join, instead of driving up to it at full speed and then stopping to zero
09:44:49  <Stablean> <V453000> you understand that the join is only where the issue is being visible?
09:44:53  <Stablean> <V453000> but the root of it is elsewhere?
09:45:34  <Stablean> <Anson> problem is that trains arrive from several resources on several tracks, and that is not synchronized
09:45:57  <Stablean> <V453000> still solvable
09:46:44  <Stablean> <V453000> but it will probably take you demolishing your drop entirely
09:46:58  <Stablean> <V453000> and maybe you still need to strengthen/replace trains
09:47:43  <Stablean> <Anson> i am not speaking of the drop, but another JOIN ... sign "3 lines"
09:47:57  <Stablean> <V453000> whre
09:48:05  <Stablean> <V453000> ah
09:48:09  <Stablean> <V453000> uhm
09:48:14  <Stablean> <V453000> how would you synchronize a join
09:48:28  <Stablean> <V453000> well, you can make some packer thre
09:48:30  <Stablean> <V453000> but that wont help :)
09:48:46  <Stablean> <V453000> as the drop etc. will not be able to take that stress
09:48:55  <Stablean> <V453000> just add another line
09:49:39  <Stablean> <Anson> my drop could be improved ... but by how much ?
09:49:52  <Stablean> <V453000> the current state is super bad
09:50:09  <Stablean> <Anson> one of the stations behind the "3 lines" is piling up ... 10 million rubber waiting
09:50:57  <Stablean> <Anson> at least, i have no nmore jams at "my new splitter :-)" ....
09:51:42  <Stablean> <Anson> it had only PBS wirth even-level crossings before ... that worked astonishingly well, but not good enough
09:51:54  <Stablean> <V453000> PBS sucks
09:52:40  <Stablean> <V453000> if you want to improve, try to play without it
09:52:50  <Stablean> <Anson> i like PBS since itz allows fast layouts at first ... and it often saves 1 or two tiles forwhich there is no space
09:53:05  <Stablean> <V453000> yes
09:53:14  <Stablean> <V453000> fast layouts also are dumb layouts
09:53:29  <Stablean> <Anson> to replace PBS with entry/exit signals, i will have to move the track one tile to have space between the bridge and the track
09:53:59  <Stablean> <V453000> and mainly change the whole systematic layout of tracks a LOT. This is what makes the difference - PBS makes you build stupid solutions
09:54:32  <Stablean> <Anson> tempting "solutions" :-)
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09:56:00  <V453000> interesting ... every time my wifi signal says it has 4/5 (good) then it disconnects :D
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09:57:13  <Stablean> <V453000> anyway, feel free to use PBS still, but trust me that PBS really makes people stuck in being noobs. Feel free not to believe me, but note that I might have some reasons why to say it ;)
09:58:27  <Stablean> <Anson> at first sight, PBS is the same as entry/exit system, but much smaller since you can omitt the intermediate signals
09:58:46  <Stablean> <V453000> it might seem so
09:58:56  <Stablean> <Anson> i know that there is more to it, but i still lack to see where exactly the advantages are and how to use them
09:58:59  <Stablean> <V453000> but the causes and effects to building styles it has are totally different
09:59:37  <Stablean> <V453000> well, technically, PBS does not have disadvantages (there are some but meh). The point is that block signals do not allow you to make some constructions which are messy
10:00:01  <Stablean> <Anson> in an offline game, i can finally (with version 1.x) pause and still build ... thus i can demolish a drop completely and start over ... here it is more difficult
10:00:19  <Stablean> <V453000> why?
10:00:26  <Stablean> <V453000> why do you pause to rebuild
10:00:55  <Stablean> <Anson> to rebuild the drop *I* need 1 or 2 years, during which time all my trains are jamming and resources might die off
10:01:02  <Stablean> <V453000> no
10:01:11  <Stablean> <V453000> it takes much longer time for primaries to die
10:03:20  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i need a personal trainer who shows me the details, how to build the drop
10:03:35  <Stablean> <Anson> for my own standards, this one works really well :-)
10:03:47  <Stablean> <V453000> does it jam here?
10:03:54  <Stablean> <V453000> it does :)
10:04:52  <Stablean> <Anson> i probably would need to start with smaller stations
10:05:13  <Stablean> <V453000> see !example too ;)
10:06:03  <Stablean> <V453000> as for stations, you know openttdcoop wiki, dont yu
10:06:17  <Stablean> <Anson> i have read a lot
10:06:23  <Stablean> <Anson> tested some layouts
10:06:35  <Stablean> <Anson> but quite often they don't work like expected
10:06:43  <Stablean> <V453000> maybe you did them wrong
10:06:52  <Stablean> <V453000> actually most likely ;)
10:06:56  <Stablean> <Anson> or i see strange things which i don't understand and for which i didn't find any help in the wiki
10:07:13  <Stablean> <Anson> like the one tile 45 degree tracks in front of stations
10:07:45  <Stablean> <V453000> then you probably dont need to know :)
10:08:08  <Stablean> <V453000> just take it as it doesnt change anything
10:08:22  <Stablean> <Anson> someone said that my station which i had shown him didn't work because i was missing such a dead end after a twoway signal ....
10:08:52  <Stablean> <V453000> if there were trains without orders, he was right
10:08:56  <Stablean> <V453000> although I doubt that :)
10:09:00  <Stablean> <V453000> you cant believe everyone :P
10:09:22  <Stablean> <V453000> that is one of the reasons why you need to try stuff yourself so you see the reasons why to build what
10:09:35  <Stablean> <Anson> it ws about reverser, a depot to catch too many waiting trains, etc
10:09:43  <Stablean> <V453000> hehe
10:09:47  <Stablean> <V453000> then it was needed
10:10:51  <Stablean> <V453000> k, want to know what it does?
10:11:10  <Stablean> <V453000> simple or more detailed way? :)
10:11:50  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i just followed a train acrosse the ehole map, and maybe it was lucky, but it stayed at 250 topspeed except for onece slowing down to 150
10:12:00  <Stablean> <Anson> i ned to go AFK now
10:12:19  <Stablean> <Anson> but when i have a moment time to listen carefully, i would be glad to get the explanation
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10:36:08  <Stablean> <V453000> no jams? :D
10:36:41  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> nice jungletour
10:36:47  <Stablean> <V453000> :p
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10:38:25  <TWerkhoven> note to self, don't talk to V
10:38:27  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (general error)
10:38:31  <TWerkhoven> he loses connection when i do
10:38:45  <V453000> oh so YOU are the reason :P
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10:49:31  <Stablean> <V453000> hi, please change your nickname Player
10:49:37  <Stablean> <V453000> it is nice to talk to "somebody"
10:49:46  <Stablean> <Player> How to change nick?
10:49:52  <Stablean> <V453000> read the signs?
10:50:48  <Stablean> <V453000> hm that probably doesnt allow paces
10:50:50  <Stablean> <V453000> spaces
10:50:59  <Stablean> <Anson> doesn't it require ""
10:51:03  <Stablean> <V453000> I dont think
10:51:09  <Stablean> *** V453000 has changed his/her name to V
10:51:15  <Stablean> *** V has changed his/her name to V453000
10:51:15  <Stablean> <V453000> simple as that
10:51:29  <Stablean> *** Player has changed his/her name to 2ndhole
10:51:53  <Stablean> <V453000> a name with space is probably not possible
10:52:00  <Stablean> <V453000> console doesnt allow it either
10:52:06  <Stablean> <Anson> what about troy ? probably set the name before joining the game ?
10:52:12  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> yup
10:52:18  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> it works there
10:52:26  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yep
10:52:36  <Stablean> <V453000> hm :)
10:53:09  <Stablean> <2ndhole> wow
10:53:25  <Stablean> <2ndhole> this is... horses?
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10:53:35  <Stablean> <V453000> ?
10:53:43  <Stablean> <2ndhole> ...
10:54:01  <Stablean> <V453000> there are horses in road vehicles you mean
10:54:40  <Stablean> <Anson> i would like to have an option to set the max train length for autoreplace :-) ... how can i truncate all my trains from 7 to 6 or 5 ? ... replace by shorter train and then replace again with car removal on ?
10:55:07  <Stablean> <V453000> yes, just replace back to the short wagons
10:55:13  <Stablean> <V453000> and then replace again with wagon removal on
10:55:15  <Stablean> <V453000> should work
10:55:41  <Stablean> <Anson> now i only need to find some wagons which make my trains 4.1 to 5.0 TL :-)
10:57:11  <Stablean> <V453000> the Welded Tank Wagon will make your trains long 5
10:57:17  <Stablean> <V453000> in the end of the process
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10:58:31  <Stablean> <Anson> tested on 1 train : TL 4.6 ... should work
10:58:41  <Stablean> <V453000> it will
10:58:47  <Stablean> <Anson> and for the opposite, to make a train longer ?
10:58:55  <Stablean> <Anson> no possiblity ?
10:59:01  <Stablean> <V453000> not that I know
10:59:44  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, we need more options in the interface, miost of all with all these different train and wagon GRFs
10:59:54  <Stablean> <V453000> ?
11:00:08  <Stablean> <V453000> lengthening isnt as simple as shortening :)
11:00:16  <Stablean> <Anson> min length and max length as numbers, an option to duplicate the loco
11:01:27  <Stablean> <Anson> there are lots of GRFs with new wagons ... when i upgrade from a small one to a standard one, size increases, but when i upgrade again for a wagong from some GRF, size will be smaller
11:01:38  <Stablean> <V453000> these things have been requested many times, yet unimplemented ... I think there is something problematic about it
11:01:46  <Stablean> <Anson> with options for min and max length, this could be solved
11:02:10  <Stablean> <V453000> all wagons go from short to long over time, so you would have to replace something wrongly
11:03:53  <Stablean> <Anson> example : bogie tanker has 28000, but is longer than a box car with 32 crates (refit to 32000)
11:04:05  <Stablean> <V453000> yes
11:04:09  <Stablean> <V453000> because there are two different newgrfs
11:04:19  <Stablean> <V453000> which arent probably expected to be together
11:05:14  <Stablean> <Anson> probably not, but we have them and thus i would like the option :-)
11:05:27  <Stablean> <V453000> good luck requesting it then
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11:06:43  <Stablean> <Anson> similar request : more details in the "buy wagon" dialog ... like cargo per TL, or other limitations like "can only pull passenger vehicles", "loco carries oil", etc
11:07:12  <Stablean> <V453000> too much needless information imo
11:07:20  <Stablean> <Anson> with dozens of wagons and locos, it is difficult to find all that out yoursef
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11:09:23  <Stablean> <2ndhole> bye
11:09:23  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hi
11:09:25  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi Chhris
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11:09:27  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> bb
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11:12:28  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> why do all windows installer think they need to bundle some other software
11:13:00  <Stablean> <Anson> not all ... there are better installers, like for openTTD :-)
11:13:16  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> never installed openttd
11:13:20  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> so I wouldn't know
11:13:30  <Stablean> <V453000> not like it is something different than unzipping :p
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11:29:20  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> TWerkhoven: those nice new lines are missing lots of connections
11:30:43  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> WIP
11:31:00  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> theres going to be an slh where the llrr finishes
11:31:59  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> and only then will i clean up the existing slh
11:35:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> that was just temp
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11:47:20  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> trying the 20E
11:47:28  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> will be nice to have a mix of locos
11:47:39  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
11:47:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> 20 E for iron
11:48:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> those iron trains are heavy!!
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12:00:43  <Stablean> <Sunus> qq
12:00:49  <Stablean> <Sunus> hallo
12:00:55  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
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12:00:59  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
12:02:38  <Stablean> *** tom joined the game
12:03:03  <Stablean> <tom> afternoon
12:03:06  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
12:03:09  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> ello
12:03:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
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12:30:38  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> lol
12:30:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ?
12:30:49  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> check !thic
12:30:59  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> :P
12:31:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> quite senseless yea
12:31:09  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> very
12:32:42  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> hehe
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12:45:05  <Stablean> <Sunus> haha
12:46:29  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> you laughing at my crash?
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12:49:35  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> ey V
12:52:25  <Stablean> <Anson> just back from AFK one more time
12:53:05  <Stablean> <Anson> a crash ? ... did you know that there can be a crash when you have a trainhalfway  in the depot and reverse direction several times ?
12:53:38  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> no as with most normal people I don't do silly things like that
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12:55:26  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, the profit graph looks quite interesting for yellow :-)
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12:57:59  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> its a rollercoaster
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13:54:27  <Stablean> <DnZ-Ali> hi
13:54:44  <TWerkhoven> ola
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14:12:06  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hi Troy McClure
14:12:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> wb
14:12:46  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> that is officialy the sadest and best film I have ever seen
14:12:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> which?
14:13:06  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Senna
14:14:42  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> i am moving Zebediela Forest
14:14:46  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> so we have more room
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14:18:35  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> anotherone bites the dust
14:18:50  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> anyone buy him?
14:18:56  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> nope
14:19:22  <Stablean> <Sunus> wtf
14:19:32  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> you went bankrupt
14:20:23  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
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14:20:33  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> eya
14:20:51  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hi V453000
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14:26:42  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> any idea why autoreplacing thewam12 with the c60 won't work?
14:26:50  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> says incompatible railtype
14:26:52  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> cargo?
14:27:34  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> neither carry cargo
14:28:08  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> CT 60 only for pax
14:28:16  <Stablean> <Anson> CT60 is a special train and accepts only one special passenger car
14:28:26  <TWerkhoven> ah
14:28:35  <TWerkhoven> so i'd need to change my wagons first
14:28:42  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> yes
14:28:46  <Stablean> <Anson> not only passengers in general, but only for ONE passenger car, and that car is only for that one train
14:29:52  <Stablean> <Anson> i think the passenger car for the CT60 is the last car in my list, cost 17500, 18 tons, 56 passengers
14:30:57  <Stablean> <V453000> you have wrong wagons I think
14:31:05  <Stablean> <Anson> there are a few other trains likethat ... one special car and two locos which only fit together in those groups
14:31:42  <Stablean> <V453000> you nee to use the Express car that can carry 60 bags of mail
14:31:44  <Stablean> <Anson> it might work when you replace loco and cars at the same time ...
14:32:10  <Stablean> <V453000> see my train 450
14:32:38  <Stablean> <Anson> you can NOT change the wagons first, since those wagons only fit together with that one special loco
14:32:44  <Stablean> <V453000> no
14:32:48  <Stablean> <V453000> I use them too
14:32:52  <Stablean> <V453000> on different locomotives
14:33:04  <Stablean> <V453000> hm, do I
14:33:18  <Stablean> <V453000> hm probably not :D
14:33:55  <Stablean> <V453000> you can
14:33:57  <Stablean> <V453000> ofc
14:34:19  <Stablean> <V453000> but interestingly enough, they will have much more capacity with CT60
14:35:45  <Stablean> <V453000> the more expensive 60bag cars :)
14:35:47  <Stablean> <V453000> there are 2
14:36:10  <Stablean> <V453000> one is for 6000 and one for 8000
14:36:28  <Stablean> <Anson> i just did the test : bought a CT60 and then bought one of each passenger car ... only ONE would be added to the CT60 : the one with 56 passengers, 18t, 17500$
14:36:38  <Stablean> <V453000> yes, of course
14:37:05  <Stablean> <V453000> because it is the express car of tropic refurbishment set, makes sense
14:37:29  <Stablean> <V453000> I admit that it requires you to know the newgrf sets
14:37:47  <Stablean> <Anson> similar applies to the sprinter and express sprinter locos which only match the high speed passenger cars
14:38:22  <Stablean> <V453000> makes sense as well
14:38:42  <Stablean> <V453000> many train sets have special wagons for special trains
14:39:12  <Stablean> <V453000> if you have problems with it, either play without newGRFs or just get over it and get to know the sets
14:39:37  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Chris?
14:39:43  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> yes
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14:40:03  <Stablean> <Anson> would be nice if the loco would have that info as comment in the data, like cost, running cost, capacity, etc
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14:40:16  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> no, its not needed
14:40:22  <Stablean> <V453000> it is in the newGRF readme
14:40:26  <Stablean> <V453000> most likely
14:40:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> I was thinkingg about connecting the De Aar and Grahamstown mines to the temp anyway part
14:40:47  <Stablean> <Anson> it is not needed when you know the set ... but when each game uses different GRFs in different combinations ... :-(
14:40:55  <Stablean> <V453000> it is in the bloody readme.
14:40:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but it might be too far off
14:41:18  <Stablean> <Anson> when i started this MP game, i didn't get a readme
14:41:29  <Stablean> <V453000> of course, you need to find and read it
14:41:35  <Stablean> <V453000> google is a good friend
14:41:39  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> well Troy McClure it makes no difference
14:42:56  <Stablean> <V453000> still, we use it on this server and we like it. Nobody forces you to do the same
14:43:32  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> V453000: did anyone even make the GRF so you can reverse engines?
14:43:40  <Stablean> <V453000> I dont think
14:43:58  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> that sucks
14:44:00  <Stablean> <V453000> I think Ammler was trying to but got stuck on retrieving engine IDs
14:44:06  <Stablean> <Anson> i had bought the AT12 hours ago but got error mesages. thus i deleted it and never bought it again. but i just got the error message again about tropicl refurb set providing incorrect info concerning cargo/refit of AT12
14:44:18  <TWerkhoven> its replacing now
14:44:20  <Stablean> <V453000> yes, happens
14:44:35  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: makes no difference
14:50:26  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
14:50:33  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, yellow ... you were lucky by a few seconds ... i was about to add a third rail to my line whee you just built the bridge
14:50:43  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> i am testing WAM 12 vs BR 90 Troy McClure
14:50:53  <Stablean> <Anson> no problem for me ... i can build it on the inside now
14:51:11  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: they are temp
14:51:15  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> just testing 2 trains
14:51:21  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> if you wait 5 mins they will be gone
14:51:25  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Anson, you know sunus is taking goods from your fac?
14:52:03  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hhm make fuck all difference
14:52:08  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> 0.5 tiles
14:53:00  <Stablean> <Anson> hadn't seen that yet ...
14:53:30  <Stablean> <Anson> as long as my big goods station isn't working yet, i don't mind if he gets money from goods, but afterwards he needs to delete it
14:53:30  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> what was the verdict on the 20 E earlier/
14:54:19  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> looking at the 20E now
14:54:33  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you know were runnin a 20 E /
14:54:43  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> yes on goods#
14:54:47  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> tested it yesterday, never got rid of it
14:55:01  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> 20E is way better
14:55:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, but not UKRS
14:55:13  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> 3 tiles in 1 aceleration
14:57:55  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> they are the same as 2x WAM 12
14:58:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes,but its easier to replace to class 20E
14:58:32  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> since you  can just do: Brel>Class 20E
14:58:40  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no need to depot all and add engines
15:00:30  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Anson?
15:00:55  <Stablean> <Anson> yes ?
15:00:59  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> youre running overloaded 251 kph  trains on limitless tracks
15:01:15  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> how is that good?
15:01:29  <Stablean> <Anson> it is faster than 160 :-)
15:01:31  <V453000> very good obviously
15:02:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> they barely get above 160 when hauling cargo
15:02:24  <Stablean> <Anson> i just improved the entry of my drop, but still using PBS :-(
15:02:48  <Stablean> <Anson> without jams, they are at 250 all the time :-)
15:03:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yeah, theoretically
15:03:19  <Stablean> <Anson> too bad that the tracks get really crowded ... and then even 130 would be enough for the track type
15:04:13  <Stablean> <Anson> problem is how to deliver all hat rubbish to my drop ... some stations have 10 mio and more waiting ...
15:06:35  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Troy McClure: AT12 and Class 20E both very good
15:06:43  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> we could do 50% of each
15:07:37  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> then id rather have at12  for goods and 20E fro Iron ore
15:07:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> *than
15:08:24  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has left the game (connection lost)
15:09:15  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Sunus: you don't need a 3rd track there
15:09:36  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> not every train needs 1 track
15:09:42  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> look how others have built
15:10:12  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: I have removed my test track
15:11:25  <Stablean> <Anson> i just followed two trains leaving my drop ... both went to the resource stations at full speed, except for one train slowing to 170 when both merged on the same line, and a little later a sharp bend
15:13:04  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure joined the game
15:13:35  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> the bends slow trains down
15:13:41  <Stablean> <Anson> on the way back to the drop, they had full speed again until they got into the big slowdown which is caused by the drop
15:17:39  <Stablean> *** Sunus has left the game (connection lost)
15:17:49  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> omg Sunus sucks
15:18:17  <Stablean> <Anson> bend corrected ... now slowing down to 200 only
15:18:34  <Stablean> *** Sunus joined the game
15:18:35  <Stablean> <Anson> and most of all, slowing down only after leaving the mainline
15:19:20  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I think there is a CL calculator
15:19:27  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> but not sure if its loaded here
15:19:42  <Stablean> <Anson> curve length ?
15:19:44  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@clcalc(erail 3)
15:19:44  <Webster> Stablean: (clcalc <railtype> [<tilt>] <cl|km/h>) -- For a number <30 this calculates the speed for <cl> on <railtype>. For any other numbers, this calculates the CL required for <railtype> travelling at <km/h>, assuming TL is small enough. [<tilt>] will apply tilt bonuses to the calculation.
15:20:32  <Stablean> <Sunus> em
15:20:39  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 251)
15:20:39  <Webster> Stablean: Required CL for rail at 251km/h is 7 (13 half tiles) or TL
15:20:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> like that Chris?
15:20:53  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> thats the one Troy McClure
15:20:59  <Stablean> <Sunus> why i getting disconet after while from server ?
15:21:05  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> so you need 7 tiles to turn Anson
15:21:20  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> dont know, what is your disconnect message?
15:21:30  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> bad connection Sunus, or a PC that has a low clock speed
15:22:24  <Stablean> <Sunus> :)
15:23:30  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 160)
15:23:30  <Webster> Stablean: Required CL for rail at 160km/h is 3 (5 half tiles) or TL
15:23:52  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I know CL 3 4 and 5
15:23:58  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> after that is get :S
15:26:06  <Stablean> <Anson> just counted the tiles ... i have 5 tiles straight, followed by 7 halftiles diagonmally ... speed first goes down to 223 and then 196
15:26:18  <Stablean> <Anson> my TL is 7
15:26:32  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 5)
15:26:32  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 5 (9 half tiles) gives a speed of 216km/h or 135mph
15:26:37  <Stablean> <Anson> loco + 13 cars
15:26:48  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 4)
15:26:48  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 4 (7 half tiles) gives a speed of 196km/h or 122mph
15:27:32  <Stablean> <Anson> 7 -> 196 ... confirmed :-)
15:28:10  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson if you use 2 locos or 3 you would get much better acceleration
15:28:20  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> which would reduce your jams
15:28:38  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth has joined spectators
15:28:42  <Stablean> <Anson> but before that, i have 45 degrees, 5 straight tiles, and 45 degrees --> 223 km/h
15:28:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 5)
15:28:58  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 5 (9 half tiles) gives a speed of 216km/h or 135mph
15:29:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 6)
15:29:11  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 6 (11 half tiles) gives a speed of 228km/h or 142mph
15:29:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> 223 is wrong anyway
15:30:04  <Stablean> <Anson> look at my sign "CL 5 -> 223"
15:30:34  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> thats not CL5
15:30:49  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> and your CL7 is CL5
15:31:01  <Stablean> <Anson> 5 straight tiles between two 45 degree tirns ... isn't that CL 5 ???
15:31:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> his CL7 is CL4
15:31:22  <Stablean> *** md joined the game
15:31:25  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> 7 diagonals
15:31:31  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 5)
15:31:31  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 5 (9 half tiles) gives a speed of 216km/h or 135mph
15:31:40  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, read the sign : "CL 7 diagonals"
15:31:55  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hmm, still calculation is off
15:32:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> @@(clcalc erail 6)
15:32:09  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 6 (11 half tiles) gives a speed of 228km/h or 142mph
15:32:29  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> anyways,
15:32:45  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> that curve there shouldnt be a problem
15:33:00  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> im more worried about your drop
15:33:43  <Stablean> <Anson> i have put the formula from the wiki in a program a while ago .. that tells me 195 for 7 and 222 for 10 (2x5=10)
15:33:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> mm, okay
15:34:13  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> probably a rounding error somewhere
15:34:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> 222>223
15:34:29  <Stablean> <Anson> Maximum speed in km/h = 231 - (13-CL)^2
15:36:00  <Stablean> <Anson> but as i read the wiki, it said that horizontal and vertical tiles are counted for TL, and for diagonals every half tile would be counted
15:36:22  <Stablean> <Anson> but as the result shows, 5 straight tiles are as good as 10 diagonals
15:37:07  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG joined the game
15:37:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
15:37:14  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hi
15:37:25  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> You tripled :D
15:37:32  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes,
15:37:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> chris helped
15:38:01  <Stablean> <Anson> and yes ... 222/223 and 195/196 is the rounding up/down ... but your calc giving 216 is a bit off ... 5 tiles are as good as 10 diagonals, not 9 or 11 :-)
15:38:04  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> I had to change some major junctions
15:38:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, anson
15:38:48  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> i just call upon that calculation, i didnt make it
15:39:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> now stop chattering and perfect your tracks :P
15:39:32  <TWerkhoven> lol
15:39:43  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> The first SLH to the drop line is very slow
15:39:52  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> where?
15:40:15  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> true
15:40:54  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> only way to really solve it is to disconnect it from the main network
15:41:01  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Maybe the LLL_RRR should be carried right up to the station to allow those trains an extra track to choose from
15:41:20  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I dont think a disconnection is neccesary
15:41:47  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> okay, but YOU build the 3rd rail near the station
15:41:54  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> xD
15:41:56  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Fine
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15:42:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ?
15:42:25  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> That CB or someone else?
15:42:37  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> someone else
15:42:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> CB is here too
15:42:47  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Oh
15:43:03  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Ugh 10 platforms how to split evenly
15:43:27  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> 3/4/3
15:43:35  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> or perhaps 4/3/3
15:43:47  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I wanted to make each X section equal though
15:43:53  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> reduce to 9?
15:44:01  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Can be increased if theres a problem
15:45:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> good wagons, so I think so too
15:45:37  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> You guys mind if i stop traffic? Will make it a lot easier and quicker
15:46:04  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> brb 1 min actually
15:47:55  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> bk
15:48:01  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Oh
15:48:03  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> you started :P
15:49:09  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> What is that for?
15:49:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> dont know
15:49:18  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :P
15:50:22  <Stablean> *** Chris has left the game (leaving)
15:51:10  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hmm might need more room
15:51:27  <Stablean> *** Chris joined the game
15:52:56  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ?
15:53:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> like that?
15:53:08  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Is that long enough?
15:53:10  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> The bay
15:53:28  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hmm thats shorter :P
15:53:28  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hmm, north cant et on it...
15:53:44  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I think that junction shoudl be shifted down
15:54:53  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Clear trains out of junction and move it?
15:58:30  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Stil not logn enough?
15:58:57  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hmm
16:02:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> gtg
16:02:29  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :/
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16:53:29  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> wb :P
16:53:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> thx
16:54:41  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I think the drop exit should be redone to since its 5-4 but im eating atm so wont do it :D
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17:02:26  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> cl?
17:02:37  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> where?
17:06:18  <Stablean> *** tom joined the game
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17:08:38  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Alot faster :D
17:08:52  <Stablean> <tom> hey all
17:08:56  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hi tom
17:09:14  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi tom
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17:29:43  <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game
17:30:04  <Stablean> <Sylf> ello
17:30:08  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hi
17:30:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
17:36:27  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I liked the mini road network :'(
17:36:41  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> sorry man
17:36:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> couldnt handle the capacity
17:36:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> and it was getting in the way of tracks
17:36:59  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :P Its fine
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18:00:17  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> err
18:00:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Anson?
18:04:29  <Stablean> <Anson> i am always semi AFK ... coming and going
18:04:39  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I noticed :P
18:04:45  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> what does the speed test test
18:04:47  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i didn't continue to build, but did two tests
18:05:06  <Stablean> <Anson> i added a second loco to halftrains
18:05:17  <Stablean> <Anson> and the speed test tests the speed :-)
18:05:23  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> I think you should try to minimise the tight corners on your network
18:05:31  <Stablean> <Anson> of loaded and unloaded trains, with single and double locos
18:05:54  <Stablean> <Anson> in 15 days, the test will start
18:05:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> isnt speed test kinda senseless with timetable and TL1 stations?
18:06:12  <Stablean> <Anson> all 4 trains running on schedule at 1 july
18:06:20  <Stablean> <Anson> and then every 40 days
18:06:39  <Stablean> <Anson> speed test for acceleration
18:06:42  <Stablean> <Anson> and top speed
18:07:04  <Stablean> <Anson> timetable is only a means to start them all at the same time :-)
18:07:08  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> You could just do it now?
18:09:52  <Stablean> <Anson> what i had not expected : unloaded trains and double engine loaded&unloaded are no big difference (24, 26, 27 days to travel 2 x 100 tiles)
18:10:14  <Stablean> <Anson> there is only one loser : single loco with a kloaded train ... 32 days
18:10:21  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> What? That was the most predictable outcome possible :?
18:10:45  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Double varieties woudl obvious beat the single ones of their type...
18:11:04  <Stablean> <Anson> of course
18:11:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> try them with triple engines
18:11:11  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :/
18:11:54  <Stablean> <Anson> but that an unloaded single would be 1 day faster than a double loaded .... not after what i was told earlier ... to always use double for better speed
18:12:15  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has left the game (connection lost)
18:12:15  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> That doesnt make sense...
18:12:28  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> You cant compare loaded and unloaded
18:12:46  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure joined the game
18:12:50  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> You compare loaded with loaded and vice versa
18:13:01  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has left the game (connection lost)
18:13:47  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Because if you doubled the locos the double loaded would obviously be faster than the single
18:13:57  <Stablean> <Anson> my trains go back and forth ... half of the time they are unloaded, and half the time they are loaded :-)
18:14:23  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yes and when doubled they be faster both ways...
18:14:43  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Because the double loaded beat the single loaded and the double unloaded beat the single unloaded...
18:15:05  <Stablean> <Anson> thus the total amount of time for a trip back and forth would be needed ... like comparing 26+32=58 with 24+27=51
18:15:44  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yes but you were comparing double loaded with single unloaded... completely unrelated
18:16:07  <Stablean> *** Sylf has left the game (leaving)
18:16:31  <Stablean> <Anson> in front of the drop, they are often stuck ... thus top speed is not so important, and accelaration is ... or it's not if the train catches up to the jam at the signal after the next one :-)
18:17:21  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Which has nothing to do with comparing double loaded and single unloaded? As the are loaded in frot on the drop and loaded only?
18:18:56  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Bta you do realise that somone is stealing your goods?
18:18:59  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> *btw
18:19:07  <Stablean> <Anson> all those numbers are only interesting ... and i can compare the color or taste of apples and pears ... although you the saying is that you can't compare them :-)
18:19:42  <Stablean> <Anson> i have set up a crazy goods station, but not yet started any trains on it
18:20:11  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yes i am they are completely different, not to mention the fast that you're testing the obvious, most people test between different loco varieties. Its common knowledge that if you double a loco acceleration will be better.
18:20:19  <Stablean> <Anson> when i sometime in the future will start delivering those goods, i want all of them :-)
18:20:34  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> ^Better tell that so Sunus :D
18:20:50  <Stablean> <Anson> thus thanks for the hint, and remember that i (also some time ago) have said that i don't mind until i am starting on them
18:21:09  <Stablean> <Anson> he didn't answer, but he was online when i said it
18:21:31  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :P Sounds like your gonan have trouble getting him to stop (talking from experience)
18:21:51  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost)
18:22:21  <Stablean> <Anson> his rating on that station is appaling with 0% :-)
18:22:53  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, now a train has arrived and he gets a few percent, up to 4% now, and already back to 3%
18:23:00  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :P
18:23:37  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
18:23:38  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
18:23:40  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hihi
18:23:43  <Stablean> <Anson> or is there a problem, like factory being deleted when the goods are picked up but too badly ?
18:24:01  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> As far as i know factorys only close when nothign is being supplied
18:24:12  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Dont think whats or how something is picked up matters
18:24:40  <Stablean> <V453000> exactly
18:24:46  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :)
18:24:52  <Stablean> <V453000> what the fuck is pink doing
18:24:59  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Thats what i said :P
18:25:09  <Stablean> <V453000> Sunus: do you know that you are stealing goods and thus breaking the rules?
18:25:17  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Anson said he doesnt mind until he starts delivering though
18:25:23  <Stablean> <Sunus> no idea
18:26:05  <Stablean> <Anson> Sunus, when you just had built that Goods pickup, someone told me that you were taking them
18:26:35  <Stablean> <Anson> and i replied that i wouldn't min since i currently would be busy enough delivering rubber to the factory
18:26:45  <Stablean> <V453000> Sunus: do not EVER take others goods, even if they arent taking them
18:26:47  <Stablean> <Sunus> i just making money
18:26:55  <Stablean> <Anson> but that i would need the goods myself as soon as i set up a working delivery
18:26:57  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Sounds like an Ediz :D
18:28:08  <Stablean> <V453000> just note that at the moment Anson stops liking it, I delete your company
18:28:41  <md_> !date
18:28:41  <Stablean> md_: 23 Feb 2122
18:28:54  <Stablean> <Sunus> so i have to change server o that ?
18:29:05  <Stablean> <V453000> you can play here, but do not steal
18:29:29  <Stablean> <Anson> it is not liked on this server that someone takes produced goods when he didn't deliver the resources himself
18:29:43  <Stablean> <V453000> (because it is fucking rude)
18:29:47  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> xD
18:30:05  <Stablean> <Anson> applies to chains as well, like wood, paper, lumber, chemicals, ink, printing goods, etc
18:30:24  <Stablean> <V453000> and if someone considers it not-rude, it still makes anger and hate
18:30:30  <Stablean> <Sunus> i think i am not stealing anything, the goods just waiting for picking it up
18:30:37  <Stablean> <V453000> YOU ARE.
18:30:48  <Stablean> <V453000> I am not asking if you are or not
18:30:53  <Stablean> <V453000> I am telling you to stop
18:30:56  <Stablean> <Anson> the goods are only waiting there because i deliver all the rubber to produce them
18:31:02  <Stablean> <V453000> or rather, recommending to stop
18:31:04  <Stablean> <Anson> with a network of 100 trains
18:31:18  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Promoting your network Anson ;)
18:32:20  <Stablean> <V453000> Anson: just type my name when you start your goods transport
18:32:23  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
18:32:25  <Stablean> <Sunus> however, i am playing fist time online this game :) so be kind to newbies
18:32:35  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :D
18:32:35  <V453000> you should read the rules ;(
18:32:51  <Stablean> <Sunus> where is the rules ?
18:32:57  <Stablean> <Anson> i know that it is hard to get money at first, but i was busy enough with delivering the ruibber to produce all the goods ... thus i didn't mind you getting a bit of money AT THAT TIME
18:32:59  <TWerkhoven2> !rules
18:33:00  <V453000> read the signs?
18:34:17  <Stablean> <Anson> not many rules ... miostly politeness and common sense
18:34:49  <V453000> !rules
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18:36:49  <Stablean> <Anson> with 17 mio $, it should now be possible to start some production chain yourself ...
18:37:00  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Woah 17mil already
18:37:40  <Stablean> <Anson> half a day of transporting goods across half the map ... even with one small train and while offline, that adds up :-)
18:37:58  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Oh i thought he just started now :P
18:38:20  <Stablean> <Anson> btw: when i look at the map, i can see that everybody mostly stay in some area of the map ...
18:38:38  <Stablean> <Anson> except for yellow and red, but i do only rubber and yellow does everything else
18:38:44  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> thats just because everyone tends to add to existing network
18:38:55  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> and thats easiest when staying near existing stuff
18:39:05  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yep
18:39:19  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Having seperate lines everywhere just seems annoying to me
18:39:44  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> and lines look better when well-used
18:39:51  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> ^
18:40:02  <Stablean> <Anson> for coop, it would be interesting to allow transfer stations between different players
18:40:52  <Stablean> <Anson> maybe someone can invent a "transfer factory" which accepts cargo and produces a little less of the same cargo so that someone else can pick it up and continue transport ...
18:40:54  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Thats basically a charity then? Coop does all the work and someone else delivers the finished cargo :P
18:41:04  <V453000> IS does that, but it sucks
18:41:10  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> IS IS GOOD
18:41:13  <V453000> better to build as one big company already
18:41:15  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> anson: its called passengers/mail
18:41:25  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> usually found in towns
18:41:30  <V453000> IS is stupid, it is just playing together while in different companies .... 1 company is far better
18:41:34  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> But the transfer factory idea sounds silly to me, why drop cargo only for it to be shrunken
18:41:53  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> But with IS YOU maintain control over YOUR own company :D
18:41:59  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> And get paid
18:42:01  <V453000> yes
18:42:16  <V453000> money = retarded and you cannot edit jamming junctions, you have to wait for the other one to edit it
18:42:17  <V453000> stupid
18:42:44  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Well if the other players junctions suck build your own and stop using that persons network :P
18:42:50  <V453000> ..
18:43:05  <V453000> that kinda loses the point of the sharing ;)
18:43:12  <V453000> pointing at the fact that it sucks :P
18:43:45  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> the coop servers work fine
18:43:53  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Well true but if you cant get them to upgrade then do it yourself, maybe someone might pay you to use your trakcs then
18:44:11  <Stablean> <TWerkhoven> you may not be able to share infrastructure with eachother, but usually someone can give you some start-up money so you can make your own
18:44:12  <V453000> how could you upgrade it if you cannot edit their stuff
18:44:33  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Take your trains off their infrastructure
18:44:35  <V453000> imo IS is just retarded version of cooperation
18:44:52  <V453000> well, when you are off their infrastructure, you do not need IS :)
18:45:29  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yes but thats only in the case of their junctions sucking, in which case your shouldnt have asked to use their tracks in the first place :D
18:45:43  <V453000> every junction breaks some time
18:46:09  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Well thats true
18:46:17  <V453000> and some other noob overloads your main BBH and what will you do
18:46:40  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Tell them to build their own shizz :)
18:46:51  <V453000> again, not using IS :)
18:47:11  <V453000> anyway, it still is retarded from my point of view, and you will probably not convince me otherwise :P
18:47:11  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> ButI personally would IS with a retard anyway...
18:47:14  <V453000> so I am off for dinner
18:47:19  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> :P FINE
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19:41:33  <Stablean> *** Phil has started a new company (#9)
19:42:58  <Stablean> *** Anson has joined spectators
19:44:57  <Stablean> *** twerkhoven joined the game
19:45:14  <Stablean> *** twerkhoven has left the game (connection lost)
19:48:51  <Stablean> <Phil> hey chris can you give 1 mil plz?
19:49:53  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth has joined spectators
19:49:57  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
19:50:26  <V453000> !rcon set pathfinder_for_ships
19:50:26  <Stablean> V453000: Current value for 'pathfinder_for_ships' is: '0' (min: 0, max: 2)
19:50:36  <Stablean> <Phil> sunus are you there?
19:51:10  <Stablean> *** Phil has left the game (leaving)
19:53:35  <Stablean> *** TWerkhoven joined the game
19:55:36  *** MrD2DG has quit IRC
19:58:49  *** MrD2DG has joined #openttdcoop.stable
19:58:54  <MrD2DG> !players
19:58:57  <Stablean> MrD2DG: Client 352 (Pink) is Sunus, in company 8 (Sunus & Co.)
19:58:57  <Stablean> MrD2DG: Client 327 is Anson, a spectator
19:58:57  <Stablean> MrD2DG: Client 407 is TWerkhoven, a spectator
20:25:10  *** Hirundo_ has joined #openttdcoop.stable
20:25:40  *** ^ekipS^ has joined #openttdcoop.stable
20:26:10  *** XeryusTC2 has joined #openttdcoop.stable
20:26:46  *** MrD2DG has quit IRC
20:26:46  *** Hirundo has quit IRC
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20:26:46  *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC
20:26:46  *** Hirundo_ is now known as Hirundo
20:26:46  *** ^ekipS^ is now known as ^Spike^
20:28:47  <Stablean> *** Sunus has left the game (connection lost)
20:28:47  <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players)
20:29:23  <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
20:29:24  <Stablean> *** Sunus joined the game
20:34:05  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ^Spike^
20:55:08  <Stablean> *** Player has left the game (leaving)
20:56:35  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG joined the game
20:56:51  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG has left the game (connection lost)
20:57:17  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG joined the game
20:57:33  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG has left the game (connection lost)
20:57:53  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG joined the game
20:58:09  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG has left the game (connection lost)
21:00:30  <Stablean> *** Anson has joined company #4
21:19:31  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:32:02  <Stablean> *** TWerkhoven has left the game (leaving)
21:42:23  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG joined the game
21:42:57  <Stablean> *** Player has left the game (leaving)
21:44:10  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG has joined company #5
21:48:06  <Stablean> *** tom joined the game
21:48:21  <Stablean> *** tom has left the game (connection lost)
22:11:19  *** TWerkhoven2 has quit IRC
22:13:54  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth joined the game
22:14:01  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Hey CB
22:14:04  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hi MrD2DG
22:14:40  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Was it you who upgraded the track?
22:14:44  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> no
22:14:48  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Oh
22:14:50  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I went back to 160
22:14:57  <Stablean> <MrD2DG> Yeah just noticed
22:34:54  <Stablean> *** Adir joined the game
22:38:33  <Stablean> *** MrD2DG has left the game (connection lost)
22:39:20  <Stablean> *** Adir has left the game (leaving)
22:47:17  <md_> !date
22:47:17  <Stablean> md_: 11 Feb 2141
22:54:33  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I am off now
22:54:33  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> nn
22:54:38  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)

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