Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 29th June 2011:
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04:04:20  <Stablean> <doonz> hey anson :)
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04:25:10  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, all :-)
04:25:14  <Stablean> <doonz> hihi :)
04:26:07  <Stablean> <Anson> Sylf also greeted me, as i see only now ... but i was partly busy updating my network, and partly sleepy :-) .. i do NOT live in australia :-)
04:26:23  <Stablean> <doonz> haha
04:26:25  <Stablean> <doonz> whats the time there?
04:26:39  <Stablean> <doonz> you are up at the most abnormal hours :)
04:27:10  <Stablean> <Anson> yesterday, i had tried to work out a design for an easy station which has storage for trains, but to the ML only an invisible depot
04:27:24  <Stablean> <Anson> 6.30
04:27:26  <Stablean> <doonz> am?
04:27:45  <Stablean> <doonz> heh yeah i saw all that in console
04:27:48  <Stablean> <doonz> had no idea what you guys were talking about
04:27:57  <Stablean> <Anson> neither am nor pn ... we use 24 hour format hre ... thus it translate to am for you :-)
04:29:39  <Stablean> <doonz> you use 24 hour format? ;o
04:29:41  <Stablean> <doonz> why
04:30:24  <Stablean> <Anson> did you ever put down a station on a new game, with a simple connection only, a bit later expanded that to two platforms (terminus style) with pbs or enty/exit ?
04:30:46  <Stablean> <Anson> where i live, everybody uses 0.00 to 23.59
04:30:49  <Stablean> <doonz> wow
04:30:56  <Stablean> <doonz> thats crazy :p
04:31:02  <Stablean> <Anson> and we also use :-)
04:31:13  <Stablean> <doonz> we use dd/mm/yy
04:31:21  <Stablean> <doonz> using mm/dd/yy would be weird.
04:31:59  <Stablean> <doonz> no ive never done that before
04:33:00  <Stablean> <Anson> i can understand if someone would write ... just like hh:mm:ss ... all descending in rank
04:33:14  <Stablean> <doonz> hehe i would still find that weird!
04:33:20  <Stablean> <Anson> but not the alternating sequence like the usa do
04:33:36  <Stablean> <doonz> usa do everything weird
04:33:41  <Stablean> <doonz> like their units
04:33:43  <Stablean> <doonz> ickkkk
04:33:49  <Stablean> <Anson> for data files, i often use yyyy-mm-dd-hh-mm-ss ... easier to sort
04:34:11  <Stablean> <doonz> i wish they just used metric units
04:34:56  <Stablean> <Anson> over here, it is only metric ... and a few years ago, it was difficult to adjust to the last few units they changed ...
04:35:20  <Stablean> <Anson> PS (= hp in english) was replaced by W
04:35:29  <Stablean> <doonz> we use W here
04:37:23  <Stablean> <Anson> back to the stations : hehe, what kind of station do you use at first ? :-)
04:37:33  <Stablean> <doonz> usually terminus
04:37:51  <Stablean> <doonz> but i want to get into the habit of just doing RoRO as i always usually upgrade them later anyway
04:39:03  <Stablean> <Anson> you use just what i said, eg at !here : two platforms, terminus style, with entry/exit or pbs
04:39:26  <Stablean> <doonz> yea
04:39:32  <Stablean> <doonz> because i wanted to save money
04:39:34  <Stablean> <Anson> on those stations, i had the problem of trains queueing back into the mainline
04:40:06  <Stablean> <doonz> oh i see
04:40:21  <Stablean> <Anson> offline, you can always watch the stations, and add more trains when needed, but online/AFK, mines might increase production
04:41:03  <Stablean> <Anson> then you need to add trains in advance, but that might give the above problem, or you have too few trains, resulting in dropping ratings and thus no more growth
04:41:45  <Stablean> <doonz> i see
04:41:53  <Stablean> <Anson> of course, you can use "dirty tricks" like a truck which guarantees that there is always someone picking up cargo :-) but that is ugly
04:42:28  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i wanted to add some storage ... a depot which also is used elsewhere as overflow
04:43:12  <Stablean> <Anson> but the disadvantage is that a proper overflow is big and in the early game it is a lot of slow work do build, needs lots of space, especially when terraforming is costly, etc
04:44:15  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i did a simplified version of overflow ... had seen a big overflow on the wiki or in blogs, and then constructed the small one i also use in this game
04:44:46  <Stablean> <Anson> for an example, look !here
04:45:11  <Stablean> <doonz> im here
04:45:37  <Stablean> <Anson> i stopped the two trains ... now wait for the third
04:46:00  <Stablean> <doonz> wow thats cool
04:47:27  <Stablean> <Anson> that's the principle of all overflows ... set signals so that trains are led to an empty rail, possibly doing a short roundtrip to some depot, and let them wait there
04:48:24  <Stablean> <Anson> the version !here, is very simple, but it does the most important trick in a big network : the reverser part of the station hides the depot from the ML when the pathfinder looks for "nearest depot"
04:49:00  <Stablean> <Anson> if the depot may be visible, it is even easier, but not much, and not much smallereither
04:49:11  <Stablean> <doonz> so if they were sent to the deport.. they wouldnt go to that deport?
04:49:47  <Stablean> <Anson> try this layout and try sending trains to a depot ... they won't find any
04:50:05  <Stablean> <Anson> the only place from where they can find this depot is from the reverser and the station itself
04:50:57  <Stablean> <Anson> just look at the connection between the entering track and the depot : there is no path between them, only a 90 degree turn
04:52:13  <Stablean> <Anson> at the first crossing after the entry signal, the pathfinder has to decide where to send the train ... a direct rail to the first or decond platform, or a rail to "someplace else"
04:52:49  <Stablean> <Anson> if that "someplace else" would be only a dead end, the pathfinder wouldn't use it, and thus the little "arrow" is added to the end
04:53:19  <Stablean> <Anson> that makes the pathfinder believe that there might be more choices later on that route and sends trains to the dead end
04:54:19  <Stablean> <Anson> (the last three lines apply only, if the signals at the platform a red, of course :-)
04:55:33  <Stablean> <doonz> looks like it works pretty well :)
04:55:44  <Stablean> <Anson> the train entered the station area because it saw at least one green exit signal : the signal in front of the depot ... but that is completely separate from the pathfinder which does not see the depot :-)
04:57:32  <Stablean> <Anson> and when the train has entered the depot, the depot will have a red entry signal since the combo in front of it is red, and that is because from that side, only twoexit signals (at the the platforms) are visible
04:58:02  <Stablean> <Anson> that red entry signal is the invisible signal which every depot has
04:58:44  <Stablean> <Anson> and when a platform is free again, the combo signal and the invisible entry signal are green and the train leaves the depot
04:59:14  <Stablean> <Anson> this solution is simple, and it requires only as much space as an additional platform
05:00:02  <Stablean> <doonz> did you do all overflow like that then?
05:00:05  <Stablean> <Anson> small disadvantages : while a new train is reversing, it blocks the entire entry/exit area of the station
05:00:26  <Stablean> <Anson> and you also can't do it with PBS
05:01:00  <Stablean> <Anson> for that simple station, PBS would be slightly faster than entry/exit since one train can enter the right station while another leaves the left one
05:02:06  <Stablean> <Anson> butmost of the time and in early game such pickup stations have no heavy traffic
05:02:23  <Sylf> <Anson> Sylf also greeted me, as i see only now ...  <--- I was only gonna ask if people wanted a new map yet
05:02:36  <Sylf> sounds like you folks are still keeping yourselves busy
05:03:00  <Stablean> <Anson> usage of those depots : when you see resources piling up, just add 2 or 3 more trains in that depot, and they are used when needed
05:03:44  <Stablean> <Anson> i was solo for a long time ... and just explaing my invention of storage depots :-)
05:04:08  <Stablean> <Anson> where is the server located ? what time do YOU have, Sylf ?
05:04:21  <Sylf> server itself is in Germany
05:04:22  <Stablean> <doonz> yay
05:04:24  <Stablean> <doonz> look @ !works
05:04:25  <Sylf> I'm in US
05:04:42  <Stablean> <Anson> over here, it is 7 now (am for the english non-metrics :-)
05:05:12  <Stablean> <doonz> only one problem.. the trains seem to prefer the right side when both signals are green :(
05:05:24  <Stablean> <Anson> since you are here, i have a question about the pathfinder ....
05:05:50  <Stablean> <Anson> doonz: as always ... they take the nearest platform
05:06:20  <Stablean> <Anson> i tried exactly the same layout for a station that i am now explaing OFFLINE
05:06:21  <Sylf> nearest open platform, sort of...
05:06:48  <Stablean> <Anson> but in an offline game, the train just looks for a platform and won't go into the reverser
05:07:14  <Stablean> <Anson> thus it deadlocks the station immediately when the third train arrives
05:07:44  <Stablean> <Anson> i also saved an online game, and that runs perfectly offline too
05:08:03  <Stablean> <Anson> is there some setting in all these games here that offline games don't have ?
05:08:30  <Stablean> <Anson> that also would be the answer to my question, why all my overflow stations at home didn't work :-(
05:09:46  <Stablean> <Anson> just found that out last evening and thus didn't look up the pathfuinder and all its parameters yet .... probably in some forum or maybe ina wiki too ?
05:11:54  <Stablean> <Anson> back to the stations : yesterday, i wanted to extend that station layout to three platforms since traffic was heavier, and it failed miserably : trains wouldn'Ät enter the depot, but instead go to the third platform and lock the station up :-(
05:12:20  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, are you still reading (and understanding), doonz ? :-)
05:12:28  <Stablean> <doonz> haha not really :P
05:13:01  <Stablean> <doonz> im reading and kinda understanding :p
05:13:20  <Stablean> <Anson> look !here now again ... i added a third platform
05:13:39  <Stablean> <Anson> as long as there are only 3 trains, it works
05:15:47  <Stablean> <doonz> hmm
05:16:34  <Stablean> <Anson> station too spread out ... but you see the problem even without the third platform now
05:16:52  <Stablean> <Anson> there is a fork in front of the second platform now !!!!
05:17:10  <Stablean> <Anson> thus the pathfinder chooses that direction to send trains left
05:17:17  <Stablean> <doonz> hmm
05:17:35  <Stablean> <doonz> what if you had an exacty copy of that but had an entry + two exits to both?
05:17:52  <Stablean> <doonz> like this
05:18:06  <Stablean> <Anson> the pathfinder also looks ahead a bit ... a few signals in advance
05:18:19  <Stablean> <Anson> and it also would find any forks towards the platforms
05:18:54  <Stablean> <doonz> like that?
05:19:58  <Stablean> <Anson> that should work ... BUT you probably will end up with 100 trains in one depot and zero in the other
05:20:16  <Stablean> <doonz> what if you had a timer thingy on entry
05:20:22  <Stablean> <doonz> so that one train would go left and the other right
05:20:29  <Stablean> <doonz> i suppose that would defeat the purpose of trying to save room though lol
05:20:59  <Stablean> <Anson> timer requires a logic/timer train ... not recommended when do it at every resource station and early in the game
05:22:11  <Stablean> <Anson> that was the situation i was discussing with TWerk yesterday
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05:22:40  <Stablean> <Anson> and i think that i found the "not strictly, but somewhat mathematical" proof that it can not work :-)
05:23:56  <Stablean> <Anson> proof : when a train enters a tile, it can have at most 3 exits from that tile ... all other directions would be at least 90 degree and thus not possible for the pathfinder
05:25:00  <Stablean> <Anson> to enter two platforms, you need two direct connections without forks, and the third direction is used for the reverser with one fork at its end ... thus all three exits from the tile are used up
05:25:39  <Stablean> <Anson> by connecting a new platform, you would ad a fork somewhere, and it wouldn't work anymore
05:26:29  <Stablean> <Anson> nice try, you just did there ... but : how will trains get from those depots to the platforms ???
05:26:49  <Stablean> <doonz> wooops :P
05:27:15  <Stablean> <Anson> now they can go from one depot only to one platform, and from the other only to one other
05:27:25  <Stablean> <doonz> yeah
05:27:31  <Stablean> <doonz> wouldnt be as effective ;/
05:27:49  <Stablean> <Anson> you could have added horizontal connections in front of the platforms
05:28:19  <Stablean> <Anson> then trains would be able to enter the platforms from any depot, and even more importantly, also leave any platform :-)
05:28:29  <Stablean> <doonz> :D
05:28:55  <Stablean> <Anson> big BUT : that would also connect the depots directly to the entering track, and thus make them visible to the ML !!!!!
05:29:41  <Stablean> <Anson> for my simple reverser+depot to work, they need to be on the side of the entering track
05:29:51  <Stablean> <doonz> oh ic
05:30:07  <Stablean> <Anson> so that a 90 degree turn connects entry track and depot for the signals, but not for the pathfinder
05:30:57  <Stablean> <Anson> with TWerk, we had some cionstructions like yours, and always found flaws in them
05:31:21  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i sat down last afternoon and messed around with the last map offline, testing more variants
05:31:32  <Stablean> <Anson> until i finally had some solution :-)
05:31:50  <Stablean> <Anson> to see it go to the sign "@RWerk ..."
05:32:08  <Stablean> <Anson> ofcourse @TWerk
05:32:48  <Stablean> <doonz> wow
05:33:42  <Stablean> <Anson> make the station transparent to see the rails :-) ... and ignore the Steel Reversing Control Center ... that is only eye candy :-)
05:35:10  <Stablean> <doonz> neat
05:35:44  <Stablean> <Anson> the principle is the same ... get trains to enter by having a green exit signal at each platform and the depot, and prohibit them from exiting the depot by not seeing the depot's green signal
05:36:42  <Stablean> <Anson> by making it a roro, i avoided the problems of colliding entry and exit rails which male it impossible to connect everything and still have it invisible from the ML
05:37:38  <Stablean> <Anson> took me some time, a few hours, but i developed it compltely myself from the old design ... although probably many other people have done similar :-)
05:38:44  <Stablean> <Anson> footprint is still almost the same ... equivalent to x+1 platforms
05:39:42  <Stablean> <Anson> or if you cound the incoming track (which now may come from everywherem, even straight like a true roro) then it requires space like x+2 platforms
05:41:44  <Stablean> <Anson> of course, this is much slower than a true roro station since it lacks the intelligent and fast (no sharp curves) entry, but it is easy and small at first, and can be expanded as easily and fast even during midgame
05:42:22  <Stablean> <doonz> still looks like it can process alot of trains
05:43:16  <Stablean> <Anson> adding more logic to it would be possible, eg to avoid trains leaving the depot when a new train approaches at full speed ... but that would make it much bigger, and then you can use the uasual overflow concepts
05:44:02  <Stablean> <doonz> indeed
05:44:22  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, did you just see the train which came back from the reverser and entered a platform that JUST was freed ?
05:44:50  <Stablean> <doonz> hehe yes, i was thinking it was going to go to the deport.. then the station, but instead it goes straight to the free station, which is really neat
05:45:00  <Stablean> <Anson> will ghappen again now
05:46:14  <Stablean> <Anson> the biggest time loss is from the signal spacing between entry/depot and end of reverser ... when platform 1 becomes free just after the train passed it
05:47:36  <Stablean> <doonz> with priority.. can you have multiple entry points along a line so that the trains never have an opportunity to slow down?
05:48:22  <Stablean> <Anson> a train going to the leftmost platform will block the entry block for some time ... like 7 tiles of signal gap
05:49:18  <Stablean> <doonz> like if you had a side line going onto a main line.. could you have multiple entry points so that the trains entering the mainlain never slow down?
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05:49:41  <Stablean> <Anson> depends ... when you have two parallel tracks and two trains parallel on each one, then one HAS to slow down, take a turn or whatever to line up behind the other
05:50:43  <Stablean> <Anson> but you can invest a lot in some joiner which has several tracks, leading new trains to other tracks so that they reach the ML just when the train there has passed completely
05:50:58  <Sylf> "why all my overflow stations at home didn't work
05:51:04  <Stablean> <Anson> that would allow trains on the SL to be only slowed down instead of stopped
05:51:10  <Sylf> there's one setting you should watch out for
05:51:29  <Sylf> yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol
05:51:37  <Sylf> make sure that's set to true
05:51:50  <Stablean> <Anson> Sylf: that is what i thought :-) ... but there was no hint on it where i saw discussion of overflows etc :-(
05:52:28  <Stablean> <Anson> where can i find all those params ? in a forum thread on YAPF ? or where can i find a readme ?
05:52:43  <Sylf> that's a part of having to read the entire coop website, including all wiki pages
05:53:19  <Sylf> one of those wiki pages has somewhat outdated but still good copy of coop server's basic config
05:53:21  <Stablean> <Anson> i already read many ... but there is no button "next page" and thus i probably missed a lot of pages in the tree
05:53:55  <Stablean> <doonz> afk for a few
05:54:25  <Stablean> <Anson> in the meantime with some new/different search phrases, i also found a blog about curve speed :-)
05:54:56  <Sylf> curve speed is best documented in wiki
05:57:04  <Stablean> <Anson>
05:57:22  <Stablean> <Anson> but that info is wrong/misleading too :-(
05:59:01  <Sylf> actually, that page looks pretty accurate to me
05:59:40  <Stablean> <Anson> from that article :
05:59:43  <Stablean> <Anson> Interesting fact is that the source code considers what we call a half diagonal tile as an entire tile
06:00:00  <Sylf> yes, that is true
06:00:03  <Stablean> <Anson> We would call the leftmost picture a CL5 (or 4.5) curve and the upper a CL9 curve, while they’re both considered 9 tile curves by the formula, meaning they allow for the same maximim speed
06:00:18  <Sylf> that's not completely accurate
06:00:35  <Sylf> we know that 1 straight piece is considered 2 half tiles
06:00:57  <Sylf> just read this:
06:01:04  <Stablean> <Anson> very misleading to say that diagonal halftiles and tiles are the same for CL :-(
06:01:25  <Sylf> just take that wiki, and stick to it
06:01:36  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, exatly that article is what i wanted to show you next for misleading/inaccurate :-)
06:01:41  <Sylf> with the nice table and all, there's no need to go back to that blog entry
06:02:08  <Stablean> <Anson> the page that you just showed has this text :
06:02:11  <Stablean> <Anson> "Curvature" means the average number of wagons of the train between turns
06:02:25  <Sylf> right
06:02:44  <Stablean> <Anson> ouch ... that applies only with standard wagons and locos which are exactly one halftile in size ... and what about "average" ?
06:02:56  <Sylf> "average number of wagons" pretty much means 8/8 size train
06:03:24  <Stablean> <Anson> what happens to CL when i use 0.25 tile length cars ?
06:03:33  <Sylf> It's the standard default trainset locos and wagons
06:03:48  <Stablean> <Anson> then i need to build a CL 4 curve for a TL1 train ? .-)
06:04:36  <Sylf> just take curvature as number of half tiles, and you won't go wrong
06:04:38  <Stablean> <Anson> when did you last use standard wagons only in your games ? and what about the standard steam locos which are 2+ halftiles in size ?
06:05:17  <Sylf> standard?  All the time.  Lots of train sets contain regular 8/8 size wagons
06:05:27  <Stablean> <Anson> the problem we had yesterday : a TL3 train would not slow down in a CL5 curve !
06:05:43  <Sylf> most of the latest wagons in UKRS2 are the "average" size ones
06:05:48  <Stablean> <Anson> i meant "ONLY standard wagons"
06:06:16  <Sylf> OpenGFX+ trains
06:06:31  <Sylf> Or actually using default train set too
06:06:37  <Stablean> <Anson> did you know that TL3 trains don't slow down in CL5 curves ?
06:06:42  <Sylf> we actually do it regularly
06:06:46  <Sylf> yes
06:06:48  <Stablean> <Anson> TL3 = 6 halftiles :-)
06:07:10  <Sylf> but as long as the train only has 1 bend at any given time, that's good enough
06:07:20  <Stablean> <Anson> and when counting the halftiles, it doesn't work out
06:07:58  <Sylf> but when you start using really small wagons (like the earliest wagons from NARS), you might get penalty unexpectedly
06:08:12  <Stablean> <Anson> that was just the problem ... when looking at the numbers, a TL3 train is 6 halftiles long and one would assume that it touches two 45 degree curves on a CL5 curve
06:08:31  <Sylf> even stuff like Tropic Refurbishment Set's Ore Hopper + WAM12 combination can slow down unexpectedly
06:08:52  <Sylf> don't think too hard
06:09:01  <Sylf> just watch lots of game, and learn from experience
06:09:18  <Stablean> <Anson> for us, the unexpected was just the opposite : that a train of 6 halftiles length did NOT slow down inm a CL5 curve
06:09:31  <Sylf> just play more
06:09:45  <Sylf> it's not that hard
06:09:52  <Stablean> <Anson> for TL3 at full speed, i previously had built CL7 curves ... which is unneccessarily long
06:10:16  <Sylf> gotta go to bed
06:10:40  <Stablean> <Anson> or made trains shorter, only used TL 3.5 trains to be able to use CL7 curves ... which is not necessary either
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06:11:10  <Stablean> <Anson> last line : our results from experiments etc :
06:11:48  <Stablean> <Anson> the CL is rounded up to the next integer for determining WHETHER a train is slowed down, and it is taken as halftiles to determine BY HOW MUCH
06:12:54  <Stablean> <Anson> I'll be off soon too ... and when i am done making a screensho of my new station, i am no longer opposed to restarting the map :-)
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07:53:47  <Stablean> <Jewcookie> Hello
07:57:07  <Stablean> <Jewcookie> wtf
07:57:10  <Stablean> <Jewcookie> My ship
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14:00:46  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, DD
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14:05:49  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, DD
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20:18:48  <Stablean> <Anson> Hallo, Fab
20:18:54  <Stablean> <Fablok> hi
20:19:04  <Stablean> <Fablok> just looking around :)
20:19:34  <Stablean> <Anson> i think this map will be reset "soon" ... maybe a few hours, maybe less
20:19:46  <Stablean> <Fablok> :)
20:20:00  <Stablean> <Fablok> any special rules at this server?
20:20:38  <Stablean> <Anson> when you play here, watch for ships and aircraft ... people like big train networks, and no ships or aircraft and no large terraforming, thus prices are modified
20:20:58  <Stablean> <Anson> most important rule : be nice and don't steal
20:21:14  <Stablean> <Fablok> so common rules :)
20:21:24  <Stablean> <Fablok> at what year server starts?
20:21:36  <Stablean> <Anson> every time a different map
20:21:43  <Stablean> <Anson> every time different newGRF files
20:21:46  <Stablean> <Fablok> oh why dont U use roro stations for picking up iron ore
20:22:13  <Stablean> <Anson> and quite often a corresponding date ... sometimes 1950, sometimes 1920, whatever
20:22:41  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i started shortly after the map started
20:23:03  <Stablean> <Anson> and my problem now are not the ore pickups, but the ore drop and steel pickup
20:23:29  <Stablean> <Anson> they were working nicely 50 years ago, and i don't want to move them out of town
20:23:53  <Stablean> <Fablok> U mean Frunningsrone Woods?
20:24:00  <Stablean> <Fablok> sry my english :/
20:24:34  <Stablean> <Anson> no prob ... where are you from ?
20:24:56  <Stablean> <Fablok> well first i would recommend to move exit signals closer to platforms for iron ore drop station
20:24:58  <Stablean> <Fablok> Poland
20:25:26  <Stablean> <Anson> there are people here who don't speak english either, but australian, american, etc :-) LOL
20:25:36  <Stablean> <Fablok> :)
20:25:52  <Stablean> <Anson> i am about to move the iron drop a little to make a better entry
20:26:10  <Stablean> <Anson> but currently, the authority doesn't allow building new station tiles :-(
20:27:14  <Stablean> <Anson> look at the bridge !here
20:27:28  <Stablean> <Fablok> yes im looking there
20:27:50  <Stablean> <Anson> twi such bridges were the old entrance ... just finished moving the entry tracks to the mountain behind town :-)
20:28:04  <Stablean> <Fablok> :)
20:28:26  <Stablean> <Fablok> well not enough trains to pickup all stell?
20:28:28  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i got a free rail, separating the steel from the tunnel and leaving ore
20:29:03  <Stablean> <Anson> until you came, the ore and steel trains were queuing back a dozen miles :-)
20:29:13  <Stablean> <Fablok> :)
20:29:39  <Stablean> <Anson> only now, can the ore be dropped again, and thus steel trains can pick it up ... need to wait until it settles down a bot ... i have 60 steel trains now :-)
20:30:35  <Stablean> <Anson> in his game, my primary goal was to test the new layout of my steel pickup station ... not as mass pickup, but as simple "early game" pickup station
20:30:51  <Stablean> <Anson> and to see where the limits are ... i think found them now :-)
20:31:29  <Stablean> <Anson> but with that type of station (and that's what i wanted to test) i need little space and still can just drop 20 more trains in the depot
20:31:44  <Stablean> <Fablok> single enter single exitstation  i think can take about 30-35 trains at lenght 12 tiles
20:32:18  <Stablean> <Fablok> thats from my experience
20:32:54  <Stablean> <Fablok> so i think U can add there few stell trains
20:33:09  <Stablean> <Anson> maybe ... but it also depends on the trainsets ... some wagons are almost instant drop, some take a long time, and acceleration of locos is important too ... i could double engines maybe ...
20:33:11  <Stablean> <Fablok> and it shouldnt stuck
20:33:59  <Stablean> <Fablok> sometimes i even triple engines but here doubling is enough since station max lenght is 9
20:34:18  <Stablean> <Anson> need to clean up at "clean up" sign next
20:34:43  <Stablean> *** Chris Booth joined the game
20:34:44  <Stablean> <Anson> from drop and pickup to that place, trains were almost standing still half an hour ago :-)
20:35:02  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> hi
20:35:05  <Stablean> <Fablok> hi
20:35:15  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> have I got jams?
20:35:15  <Stablean> <Fablok> if U can try to seperate them
20:35:51  <Stablean> <Anson> i think it will be interesting when you join, Fab ...
20:35:59  <Stablean> <Anson> i have to go AFK now ...
20:36:02  <Stablean> <Fablok> if i will :)
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20:36:22  <Stablean> <Fablok> ok ill watch rest of your company
20:36:28  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> join the madness
20:36:46  <Stablean> <Anson> Fab, you might want to start a company and look at the typical prices for construction and ships/planes :-) they are almost the same in every game her ... all other grfs differ
20:37:01  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: why build eitherside of a busy line of mine that need doubling?
20:37:04  <Stablean> <Fablok> ye i will :)
20:37:45  <Stablean> <Anson> Sylf asked whether we should restart the map ... 12++ hours ago, and i was the only one playing
20:37:57  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: check !WTF
20:38:03  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I asked for a restart
20:38:15  <Stablean> <Anson> didn't think it would run as long as it does now, and thus simply put down a funny track to have a more distant drop :-)
20:39:05  <Stablean> <Anson> when i built that track, i thought the map would be restarted maybe 30 mins later
20:39:16  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> well it isn't :'(
20:39:22  <Stablean> <Anson> sorry when it now blocks you from expansion
20:39:36  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I don't want to expand realy
20:39:38  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> just pointing it out
20:39:44  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I would rather a new map
20:39:58  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> if I wasn't such a nob I could have reset myself
20:40:09  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> but instead of which I am a nob
20:40:39  <Stablean> <Fablok> only nob around is me :P
20:40:46  <Stablean> <Anson> i have to go AFK now ... saved the map to have a look later for improvements to my station (offline) ... restart whenever there is someone offering a new map :-)
20:40:52  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Fablok I am sure you are not
20:41:14  <Stablean> <Anson> oh no, Fab is no n00b, but only new to this server :-)
20:41:22  <Stablean> <Fablok> im first time at this server :)
20:41:25  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> I have big big jams on my ML
20:41:31  <Stablean> <Fablok> so im nob that way or another :D
20:41:47  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> nob doesn't mean noob
20:42:05  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> nob a way of calling my self stupid
20:42:05  <Stablean> <Fablok> i know but also can be a reason to be1 :D
20:42:27  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, Fab : look at my iron ore trains now ... all the mess is cleaning up slowly now :-)
20:42:47  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> Anson: want to help me LLL_RRR my wood lines
20:42:57  <Stablean> <Anson> there were enough trains ... more than enough, but they were waiting in queues for dropping, instead of waiting to pickup
20:43:11  <Stablean> <Fablok> yep looks smothly now :)
20:44:09  <Stablean> <Anson> will be back later ... GL
20:44:11  <Stablean> <Chris Booth> bye bye
20:44:13  <Stablean> <Fablok> cya
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21:00:56  <Stablean> <V453000> hello
21:00:59  <Stablean> <Fablok> hi
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22:21:33  <Stablean> <Fablok> Anson here?
22:21:44  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo ... just returned from AFK
22:21:54  <Stablean> <Fablok> can U check pls my lines?
22:22:00  <Stablean> <Fablok> sign "is this legal here"
22:22:14  <Stablean> <Fablok> and sign "or such a lines?"
22:22:14  <Stablean> <Anson> /V left me a coment on my pick stations ... really nice : easier and more fail-safe than before
22:23:02  <Stablean> <Fablok> check it now
22:23:12  <Stablean> <Fablok> its not better
22:23:15  <Stablean> <Fablok> oh unstuck
22:23:22  <V453000> :p
22:24:04  <Stablean> <Fablok> i would left combo at enter to that station
22:24:06  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, you are just the opposite of a player who was here a few days ago : he didn't ask, we told him that his actions were not legal, and he only said "as long as game parameters allow, i will do it" ... such action seems to be almost the only reason for a kick/ban here
22:24:28  <Stablean> <Fablok> so i cant build like this?
22:24:38  <Stablean> <Fablok> better ask it never harms :D
22:25:28  <Stablean> <Anson> the depots have an invisible signal at their entrance/exit ... i didn't know that that would be also set as entry signal when there was a mixture of exit and normal signals in my station
22:26:03  <Stablean> <Fablok> yep depots have signals builtin ;)
22:26:14  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, those double-bus stations are to be discussed :-)
22:26:28  <Stablean> <Fablok> whats wrong with them?
22:26:46  <Stablean> <Anson> some people use them to increase production of resiurces, and that probably is legal here, but not liked :-)
22:26:52  <Stablean> <Fablok> pick at city1 drop city2 fastest way as its possible :)
22:27:10  <Stablean> <Fablok> thats not my point at least not here
22:27:28  <Stablean> <Anson> but i think that using stations to "teleport" cargo across rivers etc shouldn't be legal ... but i haven't heard a final word on it yet
22:27:28  <Stablean> <Fablok> ye i know the method to increase production drop and pick up at same station
22:27:38  <Stablean> <Fablok> but check it those R 2 different stations
22:27:48  <Stablean> <Fablok> just thing is they R near each other
22:28:15  <Stablean> <Fablok> left station is TRarham right is Findwood
22:28:49  <Stablean> <Anson> better ask people who do more city building ... i specialize in cargo :-)
22:28:51  <Stablean> <Fablok> mostly i would like to know how far i can get with CTRL-Station types
22:29:01  <Stablean> <Anson> for towns, thre are some rules
22:29:11  <Stablean> <Fablok> ye i read it
22:29:21  <Stablean> <Anson> towns should only be grown if you use them (transport 50%+)
22:29:32  <Stablean> <Anson> and stations in towns shouldn't "walk"
22:29:46  <Stablean> <Fablok> ye i dont get walking part
22:30:20  <Stablean> <Fablok> as i can see 341 of 535 and 192 of 251 passanfers a month
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22:30:36  <Stablean> <Fablok> and my stations covers almost whole cities
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22:30:40  <Stablean> <Fablok> findwood whole
22:30:50  <Stablean> <Fablok> rarham 80%
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22:30:52  <Stablean> <Anson> i think it means dropping a station in front of a town and then using the spread only to get lots of pax, instead of really setting up a network to transport and transfer them
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22:31:37  <Stablean> <Fablok> ok so i will ask ppl about my town setup
22:31:47  <Stablean> <Fablok> now pls look at "or such a lines?"
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22:31:56  <Stablean> <Anson> but as i said : get the final word from some other player/admin ... i don't know the exact details since i just skip pax transports until now :-)
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22:32:24  <Stablean> <Fablok> i dont do it as well (mostly) but easiest way to explain
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22:34:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hmm, teleporting cargo?
22:34:11  <Stablean> <Anson> btw : there is an IRC channel connected to this server ... you just saw a message from V from that channel commenting on your "unstuck now" ...
22:34:30  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> me?
22:34:44  <Stablean> <Fablok> teleporting?
22:34:54  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
22:35:00  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> very much
22:35:26  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> look at your cargo+pax delivery
22:35:29  <Stablean> <Fablok> like at Nudinghead Woods?
22:35:35  <Stablean> <Anson> station spread usually should be used to get lots of cargo .. eg putting a station in the middle and droping single bits at several resources around it ... or setting up a large drop or pickup and have space for entries and exits, a bit distant from the factory
22:35:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> at Rarham, Findwood
22:36:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> its illegal
22:36:11  <Stablean> <Fablok> ye thats why is that sign
22:36:17  <Stablean> <Anson> in this case, i would say that the bus station teleports cargo, and not only extends its area .. thus at least "not liked here"
22:36:24  <Stablean> <Fablok> to make things clear before i start to play here :)
22:37:02  <Stablean> <Anson> better ask V or sylf ... i am only a player and this is only my opinion :-)
22:37:13  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> in short: all your bus/lorry trucks are against the rules
22:37:32  <Stablean> <Fablok> as i read them they shouldnt be
22:37:48  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> station spread is used to make lare stations like Grindston Valley
22:37:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> not teleportin
22:38:10  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
22:38:12  <Stablean> <Fablok> so other words all tiles of station should be near it?
22:38:14  <Stablean> <V453000> hi
22:38:16  <Stablean> <Fablok> hi
22:38:22  <Stablean> <Fablok> admin?
22:38:26  <Stablean> <Fablok> can i ask U smth?
22:38:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> it was not against the rules, until about a week   ago
22:38:38  <Stablean> <Fablok> or can U check my stations and clear things out
22:38:44  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> when v banned it :P
22:39:06  <Stablean> <V453000> do you really enjoy doing this bullshit?
22:39:09  <Stablean> <Fablok> sings "is this legal here?" and "or such a lines?"
22:39:23  <Stablean> <Anson> ah, that was one of the two people i just spoke about ... he used that everywhere
22:39:50  <Stablean> <V453000> the busses are totally wron
22:39:52  <Stablean> <V453000> g
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22:40:14  <Stablean> <Fablok> now at busses?
22:40:21  <Stablean> <V453000> the wood trucks are ... ridiculously pointless
22:40:27  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i think Fab is only setting up some extreme cases to make clear what is meant :-) ... and better ask now than annoy people in the next real game
22:40:45  <Stablean> <Fablok> true Anson
22:40:47  <Stablean> <V453000> Fablok: just build NORMALLY please
22:40:57  <Stablean> <V453000> teleporting cargo like this is lame and sucks
22:41:07  <Stablean> <Fablok> makes more profit
22:41:07  <Stablean> <V453000> and prohibited, yes
22:41:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> errm
22:41:12  <Stablean> <Fablok> but since forbiden ok
22:41:14  <Stablean> <V453000> openttd is not about profit
22:41:16  <Stablean> <Fablok> ill stop
22:41:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Anson?
22:41:28  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> really, rails next to ours so we cant expand?
22:41:34  <Stablean> <Anson> it probably should be the same like terraforming : if it looks natural, it is ok, but flattening a mountain, or building a 100x100 town in the open water isn't
22:42:06  <Stablean> <Fablok> i think that such a rule would clear things out :)
22:42:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> Anson?
22:42:39  <Stablean> <Anson> already taked with chris about that ... i built them when Sylf had asked whether we should start a new map ... i assumed server would restart soon and thus i quickly built that
22:42:53  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hmmm
22:43:02  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you are right
22:43:05  <Stablean> <V453000> :D
22:43:15  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> time for restart is near anyway :P
22:43:15  <Stablean> <Anson> but that was a whole while ago ... don't know whether the server will restart soon or not
22:43:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> V?
22:43:36  <Stablean> <V453000> dont ask me I dont care
22:43:54  <Stablean> <V453000> already making map for PS
22:44:00  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ah, okay
22:44:14  <Stablean> <Fablok> V can U pls look now at wood delivery line?
22:44:33  <Stablean> <V453000> yes now it is fine
22:44:43  <Stablean> <Fablok> ok
22:44:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> not all, but the ones you changed
22:45:07  <Stablean> <Fablok> so other words from town name to town name (no teleporting) no spreading station titles
22:45:15  <Stablean> <Fablok> kk working on it
22:46:52  <Stablean> <Fablok> now wood lines are fine?
22:47:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
22:47:13  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> now pax :P
22:47:28  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ow, about pax
22:47:38  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> before expandin a town
22:48:02  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> try to get most of the passengers transproted
22:48:17  <Stablean> <Fablok> well the "old" way i had about 75%
22:48:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> easy
22:48:31  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> do it the new way :P
22:48:33  <Stablean> <Fablok> but to do it with single station?
22:48:53  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no, lots of them
22:49:12  <Stablean> <Fablok> like rarham1 rarham2 etc etc?
22:49:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
22:49:28  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> preferably iinterlocal
22:51:14  <Stablean> <Fablok> Troy what about Rarham station now?
22:51:25  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
22:51:30  <Stablean> <Fablok> if i need bigger station and i dont want to destroy the city?
22:51:38  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
22:51:51  <Stablean> <Fablok> so its ok like this
22:51:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you can add more bus stations, if needed
22:52:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> like 3 or 4 in a row, say
22:52:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but only if its needed
22:52:32  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> otherwise: add more different stations to the route
22:52:54  <Stablean> <Fablok> can U jump to my firm and show it how U would do it pls?
22:53:04  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has joined company #10
22:54:15  <Stablean> <Anson> red company : i am reworking my line, in case the server restart will take a while longer ... all modified areas are marked with signs "RED: xxxx"
22:55:26  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> thats how iwould do it
22:55:40  <Stablean> <Fablok> kk just wanted to get things clear before i start :)
22:55:54  <Stablean> <Fablok> thx for explanation
22:56:08  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> np
22:56:10  <Stablean> <Fablok> and sorry for bad english :/
22:56:13  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> at least your open to it:P
22:56:21  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> its not that bad
22:56:46  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> btw, thx Anson
22:56:48  <Stablean> <Fablok> prefer to ask before i got in troble :)
22:56:56  <Stablean> <Anson> i already told him that we don't have only native english speakers here, but also australian, american, .... :-)
22:57:04  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> :P
22:57:30  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has joined company #2
22:57:39  <Stablean> <Fablok> kk
23:06:19  <Stablean> <Fablok> guys sign "here pls" if i want to spread station this way its ok?
23:06:39  <Stablean> <Fablok> tiles not touching each other tho i want them to be both side entrance
23:06:49  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> seems good enoug
23:06:55  <Stablean> <Fablok> kk
23:06:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but its very annoying too
23:07:12  <Stablean> <Fablok> little lack of space :(
23:07:22  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> I have now way to expand my rails easily
23:07:32  <Stablean> <Fablok> just say U want to expand
23:07:38  <Stablean> <Fablok> and i remove them
23:07:49  <Stablean> <Fablok> as i said its just to clear some things out :)
23:08:11  <Stablean> <Fablok> so station is ok but to close to another player lines correct?
23:09:22  <Stablean> <Fablok> line is removed
23:09:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> k
23:10:55  <Stablean> <Anson> Fab : look at the signs "RED: xxx" ... o had built my lines very near, trapping the red lines, since i thought server would be restarted soon ... now i move my lines so that red can build four lines ... and everything is ok
23:11:12  <Stablean> <Anson> this server is not about competition, but about building nice networks
23:11:42  <Stablean> <Fablok> ok i didnt put those stations to block him :)
23:11:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no, but they do anyway :P
23:11:59  <Stablean> <Fablok> just that was the wood quite close for my cars
23:12:16  <Stablean> <Fablok> but if i reach same wood from other side it will be ok?
23:12:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> theres almost always another way
23:12:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> sure
23:15:02  <Stablean> <Anson> at !station spread, two people are using the station spread to access resources and factories more easily ... i think that is ok, although at least purple might easily have been able to tilt the lines and move the station a little closer
23:15:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> kinda
23:16:50  <Stablean> <Anson> need to go AFK suddenly and urgently ... will be back later
23:17:01  <Stablean> <Fablok> tyt
23:25:46  <Sylf> !date
23:27:45  <V453000> !date
23:27:49  <V453000> need to write that wice
23:27:51  <V453000> !date
23:27:51  <Stablean> V453000: 15 Jul 2180
23:27:54  <V453000> works for the 2nd time
23:27:56  <V453000> dont ask me why
23:28:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> why?
23:33:37  <Stablean> <Anson> RED : should have moved everything far enough away for 4 red rails, extended bridges and tunnels ... now i want to se that new line :-) LOL
23:35:02  <Stablean> *** Fablok has changed his/her name to Fablok-afk
23:35:19  <V453000> just move to spectators if you afk
23:35:29  <Stablean> *** Fablok-afk has joined spectators
23:35:38  <Stablean> <Fablok-afk> ok
23:38:46  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> thans
23:39:04  <Sylf> 2180... we're probably ready for a new game
23:39:23  <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game
23:39:48  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you wanna make it?
23:39:54  <Stablean> <Anson> red : there will be tight curves at the multi-bridges anyway :-(
23:40:04  <Stablean> <Sylf> If nobody's making a map, I'll make one
23:40:16  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no rush yet
23:40:21  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but if you would be obliged, be my guest
23:40:29  <Stablean> <Sylf> I want to help out testing nml version of FIRS
23:40:35  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> nml?
23:40:54  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> not necessarily, Anson
23:41:14  <Stablean> <Sylf> yeah, FIRS was recently converted from native nfo coding format to nml coding
23:41:22  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> ah
23:41:28  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> means nothing to me
23:41:34  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> anything new?
23:41:42  <Stablean> <Sylf> it means programming code to build FIRS was changed
23:41:45  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> or just trying to explore errors?
23:41:51  <Stablean> <Sylf> absolutely no new features
23:42:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, so it *should* be the same
23:42:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> but I'm sure they can use more and more stress tests
23:42:11  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> sure ;)
23:42:25  <Stablean> <Sylf> But that version won't be available on bananas
23:42:38  <Stablean> <Sylf> so you'll have to download and install that version manually
23:42:46  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hmm, not a big fan of that
23:42:54  <Stablean> <Sylf> from
23:43:18  <Stablean> <Sylf> it's still in beta
23:43:26  <Stablean> <Sylf> unless they released it today...
23:44:11  <Stablean> <Sylf> looks like not
23:52:44  <Sylf> map is made
23:52:53  <Sylf> ready?
23:52:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no
23:53:00  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but do it anyway
23:54:31  <Sylf> !rcon ls
23:54:31  <Stablean> Sylf: 0) .. (Parent directory)
23:54:31  <Stablean> Sylf: 1) archive/ (Directory)
23:54:31  <Stablean> Sylf: 2) StableTempS02.sav
23:54:31  <Stablean> Sylf: 3) StableTempS01.sav
23:54:31  <Stablean> Sylf: 4) StableTropS01.sav
23:54:33  <Stablean> Sylf: you have 21 more messages
23:55:05  <Sylf> !restart
23:55:05  <Stablean> Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
23:55:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> k
23:55:17  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has left the game (leaving)
23:56:01  <Stablean> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
23:56:01  <Stablean> Thank you for playing 1.1.1.
23:56:05  <Stablean> Server has exited
23:56:05  *** Stablean has quit IRC
23:56:32  *** Stablean has joined #openttdcoop.stable
23:56:32  <Stablean> Autopilot engaged
23:56:32  <Stablean> Loading savegame: '{#openttdcoop} Welcome Server ('
23:56:32  *** Webster changes topic to "#openttdcoop Welcome to OpenTTD Server | 1.1.1 | Admin channel (ask for op) | IF you prepare map, read | run !setdef after loading a new game"
23:56:32  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Stablean
23:56:41  <Stablean> V450000000000, now you can execute !-commands ;-)
23:56:53  <Sylf> !rcon pwd
23:56:53  <Stablean> Sylf: /home/ottdc/svn-stable/autopilot/save/
23:56:58  <Sylf> !rcon ls
23:56:58  <Stablean> Sylf: 0) .. (Parent directory)
23:56:58  <Stablean> Sylf: 1) archive/ (Directory)
23:56:58  <Stablean> Sylf: 2) autosave/ (Directory)
23:56:58  <Stablean> Sylf: 3) uploads/ (Directory)
23:56:58  <Stablean> Sylf: 4) restart.sav
23:56:59  <Stablean> Sylf: you have 4 more messages
23:57:05  <Sylf> !rcon cd 3
23:57:11  <Sylf> !rcon pwd
23:57:11  <Stablean> Sylf: /home/ottdc/svn-stable/autopilot/save/uploads/
23:57:14  <Sylf> !rcon ls
23:57:14  <Stablean> Sylf: 0) .. (Parent directory)
23:57:14  <Stablean> Sylf: 1) archive/ (Directory)
23:57:14  <Stablean> Sylf: 2) StableTempS02.sav
23:57:14  <Stablean> Sylf: 3) StableTempS01.sav
23:57:14  <Stablean> Sylf: 4) StableTropS01.sav
23:57:15  <Stablean> Sylf: you have 21 more messages
23:57:18  <Sylf> !rcon load 2
23:57:20  <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players)
23:57:39  <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game
23:57:57  <Sylf> that's what I thought....
23:58:11  <Stablean> *** Troy McClure joined the game
23:58:26  <Stablean> <Sylf> There's no new FIRS or BATS on the server.... or both
23:58:33  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> so?
23:58:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> no Firs?
23:58:46  <Stablean> <Sylf> so this isn't the map I made
23:58:52  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hehe:P
23:59:02  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> what now?
23:59:20  <Stablean> <Sylf> we'll just play another generic game
23:59:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> k
23:59:25  <Stablean> <Sylf> I'll take requests
23:59:32  <Stablean> <Sylf> industry set, town set, train set...
23:59:34  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> well, some newgrfs would be nice
23:59:44  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> same as previous, more hilly
23:59:48  <Stablean> <Sylf> more hilly?
23:59:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> more water (about as much previous)
23:59:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> this is shit for hilly

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