Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 6th August 2012:
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04:02:38  <Phillip> lol
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06:26:05  <DiAbL0> Cameron, can u please pause the game for a bit?
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06:43:55  <DiAbL0> !pause
06:43:55  <Stablean> DiAbL0: you must be channel op to use !pause
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07:51:56  <Anson> shall i pause it?
07:54:11  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, cameron, are you online, or AFK, or maybe fallen asleep ?
07:54:25  <Stablean> <Cameron> both i guess
07:54:31  <Stablean> *** Cameron has joined spectators
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07:54:35  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe
07:54:43  <Stablean> <Cameron> i do have to leave tho
07:55:20  <Stablean> <Anson> there often are people who have problems to join the game while it is running, and they lose con because "processing map took too long"
07:55:32  <Stablean> <Anson> it then helps to pause the game, let them join, and continue
07:55:37  <Stablean> *** Anson has paused the server.
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08:07:01  <Stablean> <Anson> diablo, try again now :-)
08:07:01  <Stablean> *** Diablo joined the game
08:07:08  <Stablean> <Diablo> hi anson
08:07:12  <Stablean> <Diablo> thanks
08:07:22  <Stablean> *** Diablo has enabled autopause mode.
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08:07:58  <Stablean> <Anson> cameron is logged in a lot, but i don't know whether he got what it takes to help you :-)
08:08:39  <Stablean> <Diablo> camerons on almost 24/7, but never talks
08:09:15  <Stablean> <Anson> a few minutes ago, he did ... when i asked whether he was online, afk or fallen asleep ... he answered "bith i guess"
08:10:18  <Stablean> <Diablo> at least hes active
08:10:28  <Stablean> <Anson> I'm online a lot too ... and i try to spectate when i am not busy, but also sometime fall asleep while watching trains autoreplace or something :-)
08:11:11  <Stablean> <Diablo> that has got to b 1 of the boringist parts of the game
08:12:01  <Stablean> <Anson> also depends in the size of the network ... even without jams, it takes half a year at least for mine
08:12:36  <Stablean> <Diablo> what do u think of my idea of banks at major cities?
08:13:03  <Stablean> <Cameron> go for it :)
08:13:05  <Stablean> <Cameron> V may not like it
08:13:10  <Stablean> <Anson> that is the only cargo besides pax and mail allowed in this game ... thus a nice addition
08:13:56  <Stablean> *** Cameron has joined company #4
08:14:15  <Stablean> <Anson> the mixture of mail, pax and valuables also adds a bit of a challenge to a pure pax network :-)
08:14:20  <Stablean> <Diablo> increased ncome by 3.5mil in the first year
08:14:22  <Stablean> <Cameron> built two banks
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08:17:13  <Stablean> <Diablo> watch olympics?
08:18:33  <Stablean> <Anson> only occasionally ... eg when i eat in the kitchen, i switch on that TV set :-)
08:19:11  <Stablean> <Diablo> what country r u in again?
08:19:33  <Stablean> <Diablo> germany?
08:19:48  <Stablean> <Anson> mostly, i stay with my usual routine of RL tasks, ottd, and watching old series which they finally show on some new stations
08:19:56  <Stablean> <Anson> yes, berlin
08:20:38  <Stablean> <Anson> what do you think of the old tv series ? most of them are better than the new ones ... less action and more contents
08:21:04  <Stablean> <Diablo> what decade?
08:21:42  <Stablean> <Diablo> im too young to remember the 90s and early 00s
08:21:45  <Stablean> <Anson> for movies, they replaced contents with action ... you won't remember the story, but the special FX ...on old b/w movies, i often can't remember whether they were b/w or color :-)
08:22:16  <Stablean> <Anson> i am a bit older :-) ... a tiny bit :-) ... watched star trek when it was new :-) LOL
08:22:38  <Stablean> <Diablo> u once told me that u owned an original apple mac
08:23:05  <Stablean> <Anson> no, not mac, but Apple ][+
08:23:15  <Stablean> <Anson> that one was a few year before the mac
08:23:36  <Stablean> <Diablo> ooooohhhhh :-)
08:24:11  <Stablean> <Anson> at that time, you had a choice of three computers ... PET (an ancestor of the C64), Apple ][+, or TRS/80
08:24:29  <Stablean> <Diablo> trs/80?
08:25:05  <Stablean> <Anson> C64 and apple had 6502 processors, TRS-80 had the Z80
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08:26:24  <Stablean> <Diablo> is that b4 the 8xxx series ROMs?
08:26:29  <Stablean> <Anson> those processors all had at most 64 KB ram ... and later bill gates did the famous statement about the newPC that nobody ever would need more ram :-)
08:26:52  <Stablean> <Anson> Z80, 8080, etc
08:27:18  <Stablean> <Diablo> and look at us now; desktops can have upto 64GB
08:28:12  <Stablean> <Anson> that series evolved to the current PC processors, while the 6502 had the 68000 as successor (able to address more than 64kb, up to several MB :-)
08:28:46  <Stablean> <Diablo> does that still exist?
08:29:08  <Stablean> <Anson> the 6502 and 68000 still exist ... im my storage room :-)
08:29:19  <Stablean> <Diablo> lol
08:29:37  <Stablean> <Anson> but i don't think there are many people using those old computers
08:29:37  <Stablean> <Diablo> so thats a possibly not
08:30:11  <Stablean> <Diablo> let me guess; ur still using an intel
08:30:21  <Stablean> <Anson> there are emulators on the PC, to emulate the old apple ][+ and C64 ....
08:30:47  <Stablean> <Diablo> i know, used 1 b4
08:31:19  <Stablean> <Anson> i once (many years ago) used an emulator for the mac on my old PC, and on that mac, i used an emulator for the Apple ][+ :-)
08:31:45  <Stablean> <Diablo> lol
08:31:56  <Stablean> <Anson> and even many years ago, that Apple ][+ emulator on a mac emulator on a PC was a LOT faster than the original Aple ][+
08:33:55  <Stablean> <Anson> don't ask me about exact numbers, but processor speed increased a lot when i switched from 6502 to 68000 ... a gigantic 1 MHz
08:34:29  <Stablean> <Diablo> r u still using an intel like back in the day?
08:34:44  <Stablean> <Anson> to be hones ... i don't care :-(
08:35:02  <Stablean> <Anson> I'm now using a PC ...
08:35:42  <Stablean> <Anson> in the old days, i programmed the CPU ... using assembler, or most of the time even programming it directly in hex :-)
08:36:08  <Stablean> <Diablo> complex stuff
08:36:12  <Stablean> <Anson> at that time, you could know all the details of the operating system, know all the port addresses, etc, and program it directly
08:36:44  <Stablean> <Anson> with 64 kb ram, the operating system was in some rom with only a few KB ... not much to learn
08:37:36  <Stablean> <Anson> a friend and me once modified our apples ... added som,e more ram :-)
08:37:46  <Stablean> <Diablo> u need a lot of study for programing ports etc
08:38:08  <Stablean> <Diablo> now
08:38:15  <Stablean> <Anson> the original apple had 16, 32 or 48 KB ram, and operating system, ports etc were in the remaining 16 kb address space
08:38:45  <Stablean> <Anson> (remember: i am speaking of KB, not MB or GB)
08:39:19  <Stablean> <Diablo> i know, i am well familiar with computer
08:39:30  <Stablean> <Anson> later, apple offered a ram extension which (with some tricks) would allow 64 KB ram to be used, together with those 16KB for OS and ports
08:40:00  <Stablean> <Diablo> watching the hockey?
08:40:20  <Stablean> <Anson> we thought it would be a nice idea to add more ram ... and upgraded the 24 chips in our computers to 4 times normal capacity
08:40:51  <Stablean> <Diablo> thats a big mobo
08:41:09  <Stablean> <Anson> just as big as current mobos
08:41:39  <Stablean> <Diablo> 30cm*30cm
08:42:01  <Stablean> <Anson> the "ports" were not like todays usb, graphics or whatever, but they were simple pins which could be switched on and off ... eg to do yound on the speaker :-)
08:42:27  <Stablean> <Anson> that was before the time when computers got sound chips
08:43:37  <Stablean> <Anson> the external storage were floppies with 140 KB capacity ... and since we quadrupled our 48 KB ram, we got an additional 144 KB :-) whatr a coincidence
08:44:09  <Stablean> <Anson> ideal to put a morror image of a floppy in that ram, and the driver for the ramdisk in the remaining 4 KB
08:44:27  <Stablean> <Anson> my friend did the hardware mod, and i programmed the drivers
08:45:05  <Stablean> <Diablo> brb
08:45:11  <Stablean> <Anson> some game which was not playable before since it took 2 minutes to load the next level now would load the next level in 2 seconds :-)
08:47:03  <Stablean> *** Diablo has left the game (general timeout)
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08:49:15  <Stablean> <Anson> WB
08:50:44  <Stablean> <Anson> can you imagine producing computer sound with a simple speaker which only could be triggered on and off, no analog input and no multipls channels ?
08:50:46  <Stablean> <Diablo> i think ur winning in olympic hockey
08:50:59  <Stablean> <Diablo> no
08:51:00  <Stablean> <Anson> i don't win ... i am not playing :-)
08:52:06  <Stablean> <Anson> the computer hardware (amplifier from digital output to drive a speaker) was so slow that you could generate a high frequency and the speaker would be stuck "in the middle"
08:52:37  <Stablean> <Diablo> lol :)
08:52:48  <Stablean> <Anson> by changing the relation of on and off signal, you could make the speaker behave like an analog device, producing better sound
08:53:10  <Stablean> <Diablo> sounds faesible
08:53:56  <Stablean> <Anson> i improved on that methos by mixing two sound sources and computing the needed merged on/off ratio :-)
08:54:12  <Stablean> <Diablo> nice
08:54:22  <Stablean> <Anson> and there you had it : two-voice analog output with a simple flip flop trigger :-)
08:54:44  <Stablean> <Anson> more than 2 was not possible since speed of the computer was too slow
08:56:10  <Stablean> <Anson> anyway, that was a time when i knew all those details about the OS and ports, and when i programmed the processor in hex
08:56:57  <Stablean> <Anson> when i switched to the next computer, it was a bigger Atari 1040, which had a new OIS with graphics, like windows without multitasking :-) LOL
08:57:19  <Stablean> <Diablo> do u still remember how to spell ur name in computer languages?
08:57:37  <Stablean> <Anson> that was more than you could learn to program yourself (in detail), and when it broke down after some thunder&lightning, i had to buy a new one
08:58:03  <Stablean> <Diablo> damn t&l
08:58:15  <Stablean> <Anson> 65 is A ... and i could compute the rest in my brain :-)
08:58:57  <Stablean> <Anson> and at that time, there were not many alternatives ... either the old mac or a PC ...
08:59:27  <Stablean> <Anson> the mac had less features, you couldn't add some new cards to modify anything, and it cost double of the PC
08:59:45  <Stablean> <Diablo> like it does now
08:59:51  <Stablean> <Anson> thus i got my first PC ... and then was stuck with it since i wanted to keep using old software on it
09:00:29  <Stablean> <Anson> even though i can't run some of the old software (it requires DOS, not a dos clone on windows shell)
09:00:51  <Stablean> <Diablo> DOS-Box?
09:01:14  <Stablean> <Anson> and snce that time, i still program, but no longer the CPU directly, nor assembler
09:01:48  <Stablean> <Anson> i still have the original TT floppy, but it would need a clean DOS and won't run in a dos box on vista
09:02:14  <Stablean> <Diablo> iv dled that game
09:02:37  <Stablean> <Diablo> i played it on DSOS-Box0.74
09:02:47  <Stablean> <Diablo> *DOD
09:02:53  <Stablean> <Diablo> *DOS
09:03:32  <Stablean> <Anson> i think the games and other software on PC were better (more choices) than on mac ...
09:03:46  <Stablean> <Diablo> still is
09:04:25  <Stablean> <Anson> and since i have some programs which requires windows, i still use it ... and not linux or something like that
09:05:03  <Stablean> <Diablo> iv never used any unix based oses
09:05:38  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, i use a *nix clone all the time ... it is the OS in my videorecorder :-)
09:06:33  <Stablean> <Anson> i can access it over my LAN and have done a small program on windows to query it for its disk directories and compute how much space is still available :-)
09:06:52  <Stablean> <Anson> it helped a lot to know some *nix features to do that
09:07:14  <Stablean> <Diablo> similar to disk manager?
09:08:04  <Stablean> <Anson> the program logs into the VCR, does a directory query and my program counts the space :-)
09:08:38  <Stablean> <Anson>  # ls -lR /tmp/usbmounts
09:08:48  <Stablean> <Diablo> we both lost the hockey
09:08:59  <Stablean> <Anson>  /tmp/usbmounts:
09:09:25  <Stablean> <Diablo> anything after that?
09:09:27  <Stablean> <Anson> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root    2249732096 Aug  6 09:00 20120806_0728_01.mpg
09:10:11  <Stablean> <Diablo> :/
09:10:20  <Stablean> <Diablo> :?
09:10:46  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, that is a recording done this morning ... 90 mins of video in 2.2 GB
09:11:12  <Stablean> <Diablo> tv show or movie?
09:11:19  <Stablean> <Anson> that's what i meant that knowing a bit of *nix is useful ...
09:12:07  <Stablean> <Anson> -rex are permissions, root is the owner, 2249... is the filesize, then the date and filename
09:12:40  <Stablean> <Anson> it is on an USB stick which i later plug in my comp and can cut the commercials to keep only the pure movie
09:13:58  <Stablean> <Anson> most boring part about it is to wait for the cut movie to be written ... almost takes 15 mins for every hour of video :-(
09:14:38  <Stablean> <Diablo> *sigh*
09:14:48  <Stablean> <Anson> later i store it on some big external USB drives ... makes for nice collections :-)
09:15:14  <Stablean> <Anson> will take years if i ever should decide to watch it :-) LOL
09:15:29  <Stablean> <Diablo> cheaper than store bought DVDs
09:15:51  <Stablean> <Anson> depends ....
09:16:14  <Stablean> <Anson> if you buy the DVDs only a year later, you can get many of them for a few EUR only
09:16:40  <Stablean> <Anson> and you may not calculate the cost of time when doing it yourself :-)
09:16:50  <Stablean> <Diablo> 1 yr to come down to 1 EUR
09:17:08  <Stablean> <Diablo> thats short
09:17:31  <Stablean> <Anson> buy DVD : 1 DVD = 2-20, mostly 5 EUR
09:17:50  <Stablean> <Anson> burn DVD yourself : 1 DVD = 2 movies
09:18:13  <Stablean> <Diablo> 1 EUR=~NZ.5
09:19:07  <Stablean> <Diablo> brb
09:21:45  <Stablean> <Anson> store on USB drive : 4 GB = 3 hours = 2 movies (like i had on burnt DVDs), thus my newest harddisk holds maybe 2200 hours = 1100 mivies = 4000+ episodes :-)
09:23:23  <Stablean> <Diablo> thats a few
09:24:49  <Stablean> <Anson> not much if you record a series ...
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09:25:52  <Stablean> <Anson> we just had a new station 3 months ago, and they started broadcasting complete reruns of some series ... 100 episodes of 4 series = 400 total in only 3 months
09:26:46  <Stablean> <Anson> TV is always running in the background when i am onklie :-)
09:26:59  <Stablean> <Anson> * online
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09:28:51  <Stablean> <Diablo> seen the league table recently?
09:29:18  <Stablean> <Anson> you are 2nd
09:29:43  <Stablean> <Diablo> thats higher than i expected to be
09:30:11  <Stablean> <Anson> red was top for years ...
09:30:13  <Stablean> <Diablo> i expected to be within the bottom 5
09:30:47  <Stablean> <Diablo> then something bad happened in 2037
09:30:58  <Stablean> <Anson> look at the performance history chart
09:31:35  <Stablean> <Anson> i was on top a few years ago, for exactly 2 years ... then dropped by 100 points
09:31:42  <Stablean> <Anson> that is caused by the metros ...
09:32:00  <Stablean> <Anson> metros will never earn 20000$ or more
09:32:22  <Stablean> <Anson> thus everybody using metros in a pax game has a handicap for the performance rating
09:32:40  <Stablean> <Diablo> which 1s are the metro?
09:32:56  <Stablean> <Anson> the small ones collecting pax in towns
09:33:10  <Stablean> <Anson> no matter what train type it is
09:33:14  <Stablean> <Diablo> the suburbans
09:34:04  <Stablean> <Diablo> mine can earn upto 30k annually
09:34:20  <Stablean> <Diablo> $
09:34:37  <Stablean> <Anson> mine are doing 1k$ to 3k$, if "transfer costs" are enabled
09:35:00  <Stablean> <Anson> in games without the transfer costs credited, they will even do negative profit
09:35:34  <Stablean> <Anson> that's one point why the performance rating doesn't tell much on how good someone plays
09:36:37  <Stablean> <Anson> i could just put down 50 more stations in other towns to get a better rating for 80+ stations
09:37:18  <Stablean> <Anson> max rating in this game is not possible anyway since it requires 8+ different types of cargo and we have mostly pax, maybe mail, and then an occasional valuables transport
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09:39:15  <Stablean> <Diablo> IM kinda supprised the server hasnt crashed or reset yet
09:39:33  <Stablean> <Cameron> good ol' gamecube still works
09:39:47  <Stablean> <Cameron> runs an 11 yo game fine
09:40:06  <Stablean> <Diablo> the wii will play them also
09:40:30  <Stablean> <Cameron> my wii can't run anything
09:41:10  <Stablean> <Cameron> Im thinking it's the way it was built(the wii) for the disc tray
09:41:29  <Stablean> <Cameron> dust gets in but you can't clean it?
09:41:55  <Stablean> <Cameron> 007: Nightfire
09:41:57  <Stablean> <Diablo> discovered the camecube part?
09:42:19  <Stablean> <Cameron> collecting dust in the furnace room :P
09:44:21  <Stablean> <Anson> i got a PC and don't need any PS, cube, station or whatever :-)
09:44:58  <Stablean> <Anson> when i have WOW, OTTD and my VCR, why should i get something else ? .-)
09:48:10  <Stablean> <Diablo> i got to go now
09:48:15  <Stablean> <Diablo> cyas later
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10:44:47  <Stablean> <Dixon296> :)
10:46:45  <Stablean> <Dixon296> whats the third ?
10:47:00  <Stablean> <Anson> valuables ... if you fund banks yourself
10:47:13  <Stablean> <Dixon296> k
10:48:52  <Stablean> <Anson> the bank buildings look really nice .... but i would like to have a heli landing space on them :-) LOL
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10:53:04  <Stablean> <Anson> WB
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10:53:07  <Stablean> <Dixon296> ty
10:54:15  <Stablean> <Anson> it's hard to lose con when you have just stopped trains or are doing some rebuild ....
10:54:30  <Stablean> <Dixon296> yup
10:54:41  <Stablean> <Anson> good to have a "little" cash reserve in such a case .... which we both do :-) LOL
10:55:42  <Stablean> <V453000> hu
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10:55:55  <Stablean> <Anson> ho, v
10:55:57  <Stablean> <Dixon296> hi V
10:58:10  <Stablean> <Anson> your trains are really nice, but i can't decide whether to use maelstrom or timewave ...
10:59:13  <Stablean> <V453000> lol :)
10:59:19  <Stablean> <Anson> one type leaves 30000 pax waiting at the station but gives a multiple income ... the other transports all pax, but tends to jam because of its low speed and gives much less income
10:59:22  <Stablean> <V453000> on this long distance it should be kinda obvius
11:00:07  <Stablean> <V453000> also there are a few trains in the middle too :p not just those two extremes
11:00:29  <Stablean> <Anson> depends on whether your personak goal is to please all citisens and transport them all, or make profit like a tycoon
11:00:46  <Stablean> <V453000> well you can please citizens also with the faster trains :)
11:01:00  <Stablean> <V453000> it depends on your network a lot too
11:01:47  <Stablean> <Anson> probably ... but quite some work to completely rebuild some transfer station
11:02:18  <Stablean> <Anson> platforms are not many enough and not long enough
11:02:36  <Stablean> <V453000> well the Maelstrom for sure eats a lot more platforms than a local train .. :)
11:04:03  <Stablean> <Anson> on MY network, the timewave needs more ... it transports more, but has much worse stats and needs more time to enter/load/leave stations
11:04:29  <Stablean> <V453000> well obviously if you use one engine for TL8 it is just wrong
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11:05:33  <Stablean> <Anson> i was too lazy to replace everything by hand ... 100+ trains at one time, and autoreplace doesn't take care of doubling engines
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11:06:25  <Stablean> <V453000> well making TL8 with 1 engine is bad in the first place :P
11:06:35  <Stablean> <V453000> although the rail ice might be almost ok with it
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11:08:18  <Stablean> <Anson> if you can keep the track jam-free, one engine is not too bad ... on a long route, trains have enough time to accelerate
11:08:32  <Stablean> <V453000> not really
11:08:38  <Stablean> <V453000> they accelerate for like 400 tiles
11:08:58  <Stablean> <Anson> keeping it jam-free is the problem, but probably shouldn't be solved by (only) using more power and TE
11:09:32  <Stablean> <V453000> well it helps a lot
11:09:39  <Stablean> <V453000> especially as these trains are so weak
11:10:50  <Stablean> <Anson> just tested : it takes 75 tiles to 400, 135 to 500, and 235 to full speed (603)
11:10:57  <Stablean> <V453000> ..
11:11:04  <Stablean> <V453000> thats awful
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11:11:25  <Stablean> <Anson> much better than the 400 you guessed :-)
11:11:32  <Stablean> <V453000> 300 isnt that far from 400 :)
11:12:07  <Stablean> <Anson> and the other trains i had tested accelerate much better (good against jams) but then are capped to 200 or 250 or something, so that after maybe 50 ties one maelstrom still is faster than the others
11:12:29  <Stablean> <Anson> 235 !
11:13:51  <Stablean> <V453000> yes but they also likely have higher capacity
11:15:10  <Stablean> <Anson> timewave almost has 2000 capacity, but earns only 350k$, while the maelstrom has less than 600 and earns 400k$ in a quarter of the time
11:16:49  <Stablean> <Anson> the cargo rate for pax would have to be adjusted :-) LOL ... so that the faster trains get more income per pax, but don't get too much just for the fast delivery
11:17:15  <Stablean> <V453000> it just doesnt matter
11:17:21  <Stablean> <V453000> some cash ..
11:17:44  <Stablean> <V453000> I really have no idea how could the economy be improved in order to make more emphasis on how the network looks
11:18:11  <Stablean> <Anson> yes, with your cheap running costs, cash is no problem (after the initial part of setting smething up)
11:18:13  <Stablean> <V453000> even if you have high running costs
11:18:23  <Stablean> <V453000> still the only two aspects are speed and distance
11:18:29  <Stablean> <V453000> both of which are trivial to reach
11:19:04  <Stablean> <Anson> i think the running costs need to be split, just like in real life ...
11:19:09  <Stablean> <V453000> ?
11:19:28  <Stablean> <V453000> it just doesnt matter at all
11:19:36  <Stablean> <V453000> your train is either profittable or not
11:19:42  <Stablean> <Anson> one part is general maintenance, for having the train at all, and one part is for maintaining it every xx kilometers, fuel/electricoty, etc
11:19:50  <Stablean> <V453000> based on its profit, which comes only out of speed and distance
11:20:16  <Stablean> <V453000> well 2cc set does something like that and I think that makes it even a lot more dumb, because if your trains jam, they cost less to run
11:20:26  <Stablean> <V453000> so you dont even need to try to have your network flow well
11:20:53  <Stablean> <Anson> o was also thinking of planes and some discussion on making maintenance for airports more costly (which i read only partially)
11:21:24  <Stablean> <V453000> more costly = changes nothing at all
11:21:34  <Stablean> <V453000> the logic how you play the game doesnt change
11:21:41  <Stablean> <V453000> it just takes longer to make money
11:22:19  <Stablean> <V453000> having any cost higher or lower doesnt matter
11:22:25  <Stablean> <V453000> having something like 2cc set does (less costs when trains stop) does matter, but in the wrong way imo
11:22:39  <Stablean> <Anson> when running costs are split, a jam should still have the same general costs (some maintenance, insurance, etc) while fuel cots would of course be lower :-)
11:23:00  <Stablean> <V453000> amazingly realistic
11:23:03  <Stablean> <V453000> zero sense for the game
11:23:12  <Stablean> <V453000> seriously did you even read what I just said
11:23:36  <Stablean> <Anson> the company performance also has the wrong goals for network games like this
11:24:07  <Stablean> <Anson> if you use metros to collect pax for some feed, you never will get 20k$ for ALL trains as min income
11:24:50  <Stablean> <V453000> you will if you do it correctly
11:25:02  <Stablean> <V453000> as in, if every transfer is helpful
11:25:27  <Stablean> <V453000> so your trains have to transfe towards the target, not out of it
11:25:27  <Stablean> <V453000> which is quite a limitation but it is easy to do
11:26:12  <Stablean> <Anson> this is only my second pax game ever ... did i do it completely wrong with the small trains in my towns ?
11:26:34  <Stablean> <Anson> they only get 1000-4000 per year ...
11:27:04  <Stablean> <V453000> it does not matter at all
11:27:23  <Stablean> <V453000> but in order to reach performance you would have to do it differently yes
11:27:32  <Stablean> <V453000> but again, the only difference is that you transport in different direction
11:27:38  <Stablean> <V453000> it doesnt change anything
11:27:58  <Stablean> <V453000> structure is still transfer A->B. ... all the difference is rotation
11:28:43  <Stablean> <V453000> money just dont have any effect in this game
11:46:18  <Stablean> <Anson> i still think that money has some influence ... except when you can make money first for a million years and have lots of it :-)
11:46:30  <Stablean> <Anson> eg the TF costs for water and even for land ...
11:47:07  <Stablean> <V453000> the TF is just optical thing really
11:47:21  <Stablean> <Anson> with high costs, you can only build "nicely" fitting the landscape, and not build straight lines
11:47:29  <Stablean> <V453000> the economy model stays as basic as it is
11:47:34  <Stablean> <V453000> well yes but what does that change in the end
11:47:48  <Stablean> <V453000> having a straight or curved line is ... the same
11:47:58  <Stablean> <V453000> sure, it could add some distance but ..
11:48:08  <Stablean> <Anson> more work (and more fun) to build a flowing network, instead of flattening the world
11:48:31  <Stablean> <Anson> straight or curved ... think of TL and CL ...
11:48:41  <Stablean> <V453000> that isnt related to economics
11:49:17  <Stablean> <V453000> the high TF costs etc are here only to make people behave normally. But when you play on the "unlimited" public server all that goes away
11:50:11  <Stablean> <Anson> but you stikll have some agreement on whether to do no TF, low TF, or flatten if needed ?
11:50:11  <Stablean> <V453000> and actually it does make a little bit of a difference in the start - people who are able to build without TF do get a large boost to train count early on
11:50:22  <Stablean> <V453000> well sure
11:50:33  <Stablean> <V453000> nobody "flattens" generally
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11:51:47  <Stablean> <Anson> i ws never on the PS ... only saw a few savegames, but couldn't load some of the interesting ones, and mostly also couldn't understand why something was done as it was ... would have to see the development of it
11:52:35  <Stablean> <Anson> like a movie of the whole world in a speedy version
11:53:37  <Stablean> <V453000> well it is the output of what do you reach when you ignore money
11:54:51  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, what do you think of a version where you get a large amount at first, but later on need to watch the income since normal basecost mods apply
11:55:37  <Stablean> <Anson> an easy start, but later a normal game, maybe even with harder settings for running costs etc when the network is built with the initial money
11:55:56  <Stablean> <V453000> zero influence
11:56:10  <Stablean> <V453000> once you make money and have a big start you likely have enough money to continue expanding
11:56:16  <Stablean> <V453000> no matter how you built your network
11:56:47  <Stablean> <Anson> in offline games, i sometimes cheat 1 billion money at first to build a network from the start without moneymakers etc, and later pay it back when the network is started
11:57:09  <Stablean> <V453000> sure why not
11:58:03  <Stablean> <Anson> i hate all those MM business ... either doing planes, or coal transports, and later don't like to demolish it to build over those tracks for having a nice network
11:58:41  <Stablean> <Anson> also too bad when i first make money only, skipping the challenges by slow trains etc, and later when i have money, only building fast tracks and fast trains
12:00:43  <Stablean> <V453000> well that is also something to consider, when I play on stable my "moneymaker" is always the final network too
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12:53:38  <Stablean> <Sassafrass> Anson
12:53:53  <Stablean> <Anson> yes ?
12:53:58  <Stablean> <Sassafrass> at the sorry, dear mountain sign
12:54:01  <Stablean> <Sassafrass> why is it confusing my brain
12:54:21  <Stablean> <Anson> sorry, i don't know your brain :-)
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12:54:52  <Stablean> <Anson> usually, TF should be as few as possible
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12:58:38  <Stablean> <Dixon296> hi again
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12:58:56  <Stablean> <Anson> WB
12:59:00  <Stablean> <Dixon296> ty
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13:03:01  <Stablean> <Anson> WBBBB
13:03:08  <Stablean> <Dixon296> Re-Hi
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13:08:36  <Stablean> <Dixon296> grrr
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13:26:50  <Stablean> <Sassafrass> lost internet
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19:56:23  <Stablean> <Phillip> gap 64 1
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20:45:33  <Anson> hallo, can anybody read me? (test for my connection)
20:45:55  <Stablean> <Jam35> I'm here!
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20:46:34  <Anson> i'll be back home and online in a minute :-)
20:46:59  <V453000> I cant read you
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20:49:33  <AnsonMobile> ok, i' back on my wlan again. .. previously via phone only
20:51:25  <AnsonMobile> strange.... why did i get a new username (that i had specified as alternate nick if my primary was taken)?
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21:06:46  <Anson> ah... irc kept my name reserved until timeout 480 :-)
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23:18:50  <Stablean> <Anson> everybody still/again watching olympics, sleeping, etc ? :-)
23:19:17  <Stablean> <Anson> only the same usual suspects are logged in ... cameron and me :-) :-(

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