Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 23rd June 2013:
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00:21:34  <Stablean> *** MadDoctorMilton has left the game (leaving)
00:41:27  <Stablean> <Anson> in most games, i have set trees t be invisible and don't care where i build since every (longer) detour also destroys something
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00:52:59  <Stablean> <Anson> when you build a route like ketford to waham, and then use only a single train, it costs lots of maintenance and you do't earn much
00:54:01  <Stablean> <Anson> imagine how mch you would get when you transport 10x as many pax
00:56:27  <Mazur> !serdef
00:56:30  <Mazur> !setdef
00:56:30  <Stablean> *** Mazur has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, ai_in_multiplayer; enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns, extra_dynamite, mod_road_rebuild, forbid_90_deg, rail_firstred_twoway_eol and set path_backoff_interval to 1, train_acceleration_model to 1
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00:57:59  <Stablean> <Speedy> bbl
00:58:06  <Stablean> <Anson> thanks for doublechecking the parameters, mazur
00:58:16  <Stablean> <Mazur> Anson, do ytou still need your signals checked?  If so, where?
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00:58:34  <Stablean> <Anson> i don't know what i did wron but after i deleted it and built it again, it suddenly worked :-)
00:59:42  <Stablean> <Mazur> Btw, you can check the settings in your own client,  in the console, you just can;t change them.
01:00:48  <Stablean> <Anson> but i never can't remember all those variable names :-) :-(
01:01:07  <Stablean> <Mazur> I generally check for them in my config file.
01:01:17  <Stablean> <Mazur> Or the channel log.
01:01:47  <Stablean> <Mazur> You;ve got a jam building.
01:02:10  <Stablean> <Mazur> Near Budingstone North/Transfer.
01:03:05  <Stablean> <Mazur> Well, more a case of a full line.
01:05:35  <Stablean> <Anson> i once had all those parameters edited in the config ... also changed all the keyboard shortcuts ... but after my computer crashed an i got a new one, everything was gone and i didn't take the time to do it again yet
01:06:04  <Mazur> Yeah, I keep .sav copies of mine.
01:08:37  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, my lines are only crowded, and there are some trains with speed 80 between the fast trains, but because of a bug, those slow trains transport 10 times as much cargo as faster trains would :-)
01:08:59  <Stablean> <Anson> the real queue you see there are the yellow trains, but those are not mine
01:10:22  <Stablean> <Anson> my comp was 5+ years old ... when i bought it it was the second best :-) ... thus it was old anyway, and then the fan crashed
01:10:38  <Mazur> Fans are cheap.
01:11:00  <Mazur> With me it's power supplies.
01:11:24  <Stablean> <Anson> take that literally : the fan crashed ... it sometime had started a bit vibrating, then loosened itself, and finally fell from the motherboatrd and dropped down to the bottom ....
01:11:29  <Mazur> With my comp running 24/7 they tend to run out.
01:11:37  <Mazur> lol.
01:12:21  <Mazur> My CPU fan vibrated at first after I replaced the power supply recently, but it has resettled.
01:12:49  <Stablean> <Anson> and since it was the CPU fan, the cpu and parts of the motherboard were overheated and the comp couldn't be repaired ... and while dieing, it crashed the hardware too, not physically, but overwriting or deleting MBR, partition tables and important files ....
01:13:03  <Mazur> ouch.
01:13:27  <Mazur> No auto-shutdown on hot CPU, then?
01:13:50  <Mazur> Mine (now) has.
01:14:33  <Stablean> <Anson> don't trust the "has settled" !!!! on my comp, i thought it had settled down, but it really had broken a leg (a pin to fasten it to the motherboard). thus it disn't vibrate since it had completely lost connection to the CPU, and what does a CPU without fan do ?
01:15:00  <Mazur> Dieof lineliness, like any star...
01:15:05  <Mazur> loneliness
01:17:05  <Stablean> <Anson> yes, it shut down ... but it probably already had run with no real cooling for weeks, and when the rest of the fan fell down and lost connection, it took seconds to overheat too much for repair
01:18:36  <Stablean> <Anson> did you see the yellow trains and the queue ? next to the sign "rework"
01:18:59  <Stablean> <Anson> it looks like that for almost a hundred years now .-)
01:19:37  <Stablean> <Anson> i think the most critical part of it is the tight curve at the entrance ... it won't help much to add more platforms ....
01:19:47  <Stablean> <Mazur> I saw the blocking at one of his diamond mines.
01:20:39  <Stablean> <Mazur> Plenty of room to make a good entrance.
01:21:09  <Stablean> <Anson> how do you like my hub at sign "LOL" ? .-)
01:22:35  <Stablean> <Mazur> You won;t win prizes for it.
01:24:45  <Stablean> <Anson> that factory is the unload station for my slow trains ... a few years ago, when i had shorter trains, one such rubber train could easily deliver enough cargo to fill three trains with goods .... once every 3 months :-) LOL
01:26:25  <Stablean> <Anson> those wagons transport 15k oil, but after refitting it is 117k water/rubber/.... should probably be 17k and not 117k :-)
01:29:35  <Stablean> <Mazur> Japanese train set, no idea whether they're well maintained.
01:30:09  <Stablean> <Mazur> Not even sure if I've ever seen them before.
01:31:52  <Stablean> <Anson> i like nuts
01:32:07  <Stablean> <Mazur> We all do.
01:32:21  <Stablean> <Anson> and every other game which doesn't have nuts should have universal rails :-)
01:34:23  <Stablean> <Mazur> Anyway, I'm off.
01:34:26  <Stablean> <Mazur> Have fnu.
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01:52:21  <Stablean> <Anson> select electric rails and use the icon which looks like a U turn, 2 right of the tunnel
02:03:17  <Stablean> <Anson> the depot looks nice, but why did you put it down with the door opposite the rails ? .-)
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02:46:14  <Stablean> <Anson> all my labels are valid for wagons with 0.5 tiles length
03:03:41  <Stablean> <Anson> btw: max output of resources is 2040
03:16:41  <Stablean> <Anson> i just watched the two trains ... one of them briefly flickered in the speed display, thus barely could keep 120 speed uphill at one point ... but that is ok
03:17:04  <Stablean> <Anson> you only need to watch whether a full train would slow down a lot
03:20:55  <Stablean> <Anson> when both parameters are high, like 10% steepness and factor 10x, you will need two striong engines to pull one wagon of wheat uphill with very low speed :-) !!!
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03:48:59  <Stablean> <Tenpoints> hey
03:49:11  <Stablean> <Anson> hoi
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04:17:28  <Stablean> <<GriffinOneTwo>> Do people usually use PBS?
04:21:04  <Stablean> <Anson> pbs is a question of philosopy :-)
04:21:26  <Stablean> <Anson> some use only pbs, some never use it, and some megre
04:21:34  <Stablean> <ROM5419> in my country it means school-based assessments
04:21:38  <Stablean> <ROM5419> LOL
04:21:54  <Stablean> <Anson> pbs allows to build something very fast, and the game does the routing
04:22:53  <Stablean> <Anson> but using signals allows to do the same and even more, most of all logic cicuitry etc
04:23:32  <Stablean> <Anson> i use pbs t do something fast and in tight spaces, and don't use it on many other occasions
04:23:32  <GriffinOneTwo> I''m just learing the game, at the beginning PBS seems fine, however it gets congested later in the game, I'm not certain how to deal with that, without just adding more lines and or stations
04:24:26  <Mazur> Best learn regular block signals first, do completely without PBS, unless you haven;t got the room for it.
04:24:31  <GriffinOneTwo> I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I've re-read the wikis several times
04:24:50  <GriffinOneTwo> kk
04:25:10  <Stablean> <Anson> pbs is easy to use ... and you easily are tempted to ignore the other signals
04:25:21  <Stablean> <Anson> when you ned them, you get in trouble
04:26:12  <Stablean> <Anson> thus best to use normal signals first ... except when you need very simple constructions which are quicket to set up with pbs at the start of a new game
04:26:46  <Mazur> Once you learn block signals, they're just as easy then.
04:27:21  <Mazur>
04:27:51  <GriffinOneTwo> yea, I read all those, and the ones on the coops wiki too
04:28:34  <Stablean> <Anson> yo, or nes :-) ... when i want to quickly set up a station with four platforms, i need to plan the entry and exit, or just connect the incoming rail with all platforms and let pbs do the rest :-)
04:28:39  <Mazur> The one I just mentioned is rather old, anyway.
04:29:15  <Mazur> And I do so just as quick with pre- and exit signals.
04:29:36  <GriffinOneTwo> yea, PBS usually works fine at platforms for me, its the intersections I get screwed at
04:31:48  <Stablean> <Anson> with signals, you need a bit more space than with pbs, but you can specify details much better
04:32:06  <GriffinOneTwo> Like the first how it works example on <> they always sem to get jammed sooner or later
04:34:38  <Stablean> <ROM5419> due to a lack of space, my rails literally hug the ocean
04:36:48  <Stablean> <ROM5419> I'm surprised uranium is still being used in 2210... where is cold fusion?
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10:26:01  <Mazur> !rcon move 1113 255
10:26:02  <Mazur> "Player", when you play in a company, use a proper nick, you can set one with !name yourname in the textbox
10:26:07  <Stablean> Mazur: ‎*** Player has joined spectators
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10:26:49  <Mazur> !rcon move 1113 255
10:26:49  <Mazur> "Player", when you play in a company, use a proper nick, you can set one with !name yourname in the textbox
10:26:55  <Stablean> Mazur: ERROR: Invalid client-id, check the command 'clients' for valid client-id's.
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10:54:49  <Stablean> <Muel> hi
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16:35:41  <Stablean> <KTG> plane maintenance costs a fortune here, just saying
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22:45:04  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo
22:45:08  <Stablean> <KTG> hi
22:46:10  <Stablean> <Anson> i just scrolled back a bit and saw that you were "just saying" that plane maintenance costs a fortune here ....
22:46:28  <Stablean> <Anson> did you already have a look at the prices for ships ?
22:46:34  <Stablean> <KTG> hehe the guy had started three companies
22:46:40  <Stablean> <KTG> the first one he made planes and left right away
22:46:46  <Stablean> <KTG> the second one he gave up
22:47:01  <Stablean> <KTG> and the third one he indeed made ships
22:47:04  <Stablean> <KTG> two even
22:47:38  <Stablean> <Anson> you know why there are ships in this game ?
22:47:57  <Stablean> <KTG> I only use them for oil in singleplayer
22:48:39  <Stablean> <Anson> buy them for free anytime !!!! and then go bancrupt fast, to delete a company and start over with a new one
22:49:42  <Stablean> <Anson> empty companies (with no vehicles) are removed quickly anyway, but if you messed up it would be a bit more difficult to remove all the remains
22:52:48  <Stablean> <KTG> I have more creative ways of going bankrupt :)
22:53:03  <Stablean> <KTG> but using ships for it this way is pretty funny
22:55:13  <Stablean> <Anson> you asked on a sign "why no signal at the end of the bridge here?" ...
22:55:31  <Stablean> <KTG> yeah I was curious.. forgot or intended?
22:55:58  <Stablean> <Anson> maybe it was a nice idea : first train goes on right rail and thus blocks the exit on left, so that the second train won't overtake and stay behind the first train ...
22:56:37  <Stablean> <Anson> but when the second is still on the bridge, and a third comes on the right rail, that third would stop the second and overtake ...
22:56:51  <Stablean> <Anson> thus my guess is : simply forgot the signal :-)
22:57:41  <Stablean> <Anson> look at the opposite direction: there are both signals
22:57:44  <Stablean> <KTG> I did
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23:00:31  <Stablean> <Anson> you have left behid some rails ...
23:00:49  <Stablean> <Anson> at the sign BLOCKED, did you intend to build there someday ?
23:01:35  <Stablean> <KTG> I had a network there at the start of the map
23:01:47  <Stablean> <KTG> but then the industry decided to close down right as I put trains
23:02:01  <Stablean> <KTG> probably forgot to take away those bits
23:02:15  <Stablean> <Anson> that's bad ... happens quite often to me too :-(
23:02:37  <Stablean> <KTG> it rarely happens to me
23:02:44  <Stablean> <KTG> but in this map the building costs are intense
23:02:58  <Stablean> <KTG> so I underestimate the amount of money needed for a track
23:03:10  <Stablean> <Anson> in one game, a forest died on me ... then i built a longer track to the next one and it died when i was just done
23:03:24  <Stablean> <KTG> thus ending up with tracks not finished for a long time and that's when the industries go
23:03:30  <Stablean> <KTG> yes, happened to me in this map
23:03:40  <Stablean> <KTG> I think I had a total of 4-5 dead industries
23:04:06  <Stablean> <Anson> and to finish me off, when i connected the third forest, which didn't die (LOL), the indistry died at the wood drop
23:04:34  <Stablean> <KTG> that is why I usually transport passengers to get some starting money
23:04:44  <Stablean> <KTG> they don't disappear that easily
23:06:19  <Stablean> <Anson> everything will stay and not die for a few years ... thus on a new game, the first people rarely have such problems
23:06:49  <Stablean> <Anson> i prefer to look at the map first and study available engines, industries, etc, and that takes time
23:06:56  <Stablean> <KTG> yep, except I missed the first 20 years
23:07:12  <Stablean> <Anson> and thus everything is dead when i barely have connected it
23:09:58  <Stablean> <Anson> what did you do 2-5 years ago ? ... you suddenly earned lots of money, and then dropped back to lower income again
23:13:01  <Stablean> <Anson> lol ... had not notived that i myself had missed that signal at the bridge :-)
23:13:20  <Stablean> <KTG> I messed up with a huge nice traffic jam
23:13:42  <Stablean> <KTG> stopped traffic to renew an area
23:13:52  <Stablean> <KTG> forgot to start traffic afterwards *facepalm*
23:17:59  <Stablean> <Anson> what about the partial track at the sign "unused????"
23:20:06  <Stablean> <Anson> do you want to extend that ? or will you remove it ?
23:23:40  <Stablean> <KTG> uh there was an industry next to Budingstone Copper Ore Mine
23:23:50  <Stablean> <KTG> that I wanted to reach, but it somehow disappeared as well
23:24:08  <Stablean> <KTG> there, gone
23:24:44  <Stablean> <Anson> thanks ... one less bottleneck
23:30:08  <Stablean> <Anson> should we clean up the crossing at "HILL" ?
23:31:36  <Stablean> <Anson> or should i go above your lines with bridges ?
23:32:04  <Stablean> <Anson> anyway, the old version made no sense, with you going up and down, and i going even "upper" above that :-)
23:32:18  <Stablean> <Anson> i think, i have less traffic
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23:32:39  <Stablean> <Anson> and can do double bridges easier ... : you just build dtraight
23:33:18  <Stablean> <Anson> delete the tunnels
23:33:28  <Stablean> <Anson> build straight and i use bridges
23:33:34  <Stablean> <KTG> hmm ok
23:33:54  <Stablean> <Anson> will you double that line to LLRR, or stay with LR ?
23:34:08  <Stablean> <KTG> there, have fun
23:34:10  <Stablean> <KTG> hmm not sure yet
23:34:37  <Stablean> <Anson> meaning: short or long bridges for me ?
23:34:57  <Stablean> <KTG> I doubt I'll double
23:35:11  <Stablean> <Anson> ok, i will double them anyway, and then it makes no difference ...
23:35:21  <Stablean> <KTG> and if I'll let LL go under your bridges and let RR go over your straight track
23:35:24  <Stablean> <Anson> ouch
23:35:26  <Stablean> <KTG> ok, that works too
23:35:32  <Stablean> <KTG> it does
23:35:42  <Stablean> <KTG> power station in the way for you
23:35:42  <Stablean> <Anson> the power plant :-(
23:36:36  <Stablean> <KTG> move your tracks to the right for the time being?
23:37:02  <Stablean> <KTG> from where I bomb to where I bomb
23:37:16  <Stablean> <Anson> moving one track might be a good idea anyway
23:37:34  <Stablean> <Anson> L_R ... easier to do several double bridges/tunnels in a row
23:37:56  <Stablean> <Anson> can you lift your track by a bit at my tunnels ?
23:38:20  <Stablean> <Anson> to enable me doing double tunnels ?
23:39:02  <Stablean> <KTG> uhm put me a sign
23:39:08  <Stablean> <KTG> scrolled away and don't know where it was
23:39:19  <Stablean> <Anson> sign "lift?"
23:40:07  <Stablean> <Anson> or do you build straight and i use bridges again ?
23:40:51  <Stablean> <KTG> I will life mine up
23:41:09  <Stablean> <KTG> ok or that
23:42:32  <Stablean> <Anson> ok, you have space enough for LLRR again
23:42:35  <Stablean> <Anson> thanks
23:42:42  <Stablean> <KTG> very nice
23:43:04  <Stablean> <Anson> for me, one side is higher anyway, thus no additional ramps when i use bridges
23:49:23  <Stablean> <Anson> LOL ... i just counted the CL between all those bridges ... guess what it is ?
23:49:45  <Stablean> <KTG> CL?
23:50:12  <Stablean> <Anson> curve length, to get no slowdown
23:50:25  <Stablean> <KTG> aah
23:50:39  <Stablean> <Anson> my trains are TL5, and thus i need CL5
23:51:26  <Stablean> <Anson> have to get an idea for the fourth bridge ... that may have a CL3 in one of 4 combinations ....
23:53:32  <Stablean> <Anson> stupid me ... forgot that i changed my old plans and made trains TL3 and not TL5
23:53:38  <Stablean> <KTG> lol
23:54:16  <Stablean> <Anson> but did you see the curves between all those double bridges that i have now ?
23:55:27  <Stablean> <Anson> 4 tiles between the merge and the split, and thus CL5 since the next 45 degree turn is one tile before or behind them ... total of 4+1=5 :-)
23:56:18  <Stablean> <Anson> but on the first, it is only 3 tiles straight, and thus a train that merges from the side and splits to the side would have CL4, while the three other combinations would have no CL at all
23:56:40  <Stablean> <KTG> sounds like you need to go over plans again?

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