Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 17th August 2013:
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00:02:15  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
00:02:41  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> whoops
00:03:07  <Stablean> <Anson> select NEW STATION
00:14:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> does that screenshot website work?
00:23:18  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but I guess the point is handling deliveries correctly
00:26:54  <Stablean> <Anson> no, there are dozens of alternatives
00:37:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, let's see how this then goes then I guess
00:42:07  <bug_sniper> so do passengers just need to go anywhere, or does it help to give them a lot of options as to where to go?
00:43:53  <Stablean> *** Player has started a new company (#9)
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00:46:13  <bug_sniper> I'll be eating dinner too right now
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01:24:45  <bug_sniper> ok, back
01:27:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I was going to carry passangers from the other side of the town
01:32:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see that you've made the same improbements to the oil well station
01:39:23  <Stablean> <Anson> but not much, if you want to build more tracks and/or change something else ...
02:09:15  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, hope that's ok
02:18:07  <Stablean> <Anson> @@(clcalc rail 3)
02:18:08  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 3 (5 half tiles) gives a speed of 168km/h or 105mph
02:22:39  <Stablean> <Anson> @@(clcalc rail 2)
02:22:40  <Webster> Stablean: A rail Curve Length of 2 (3 half tiles) gives a speed of 132km/h or 82mph
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02:36:40  <Stablean> <Big Meech> happy gets all the bitches with his wood
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02:48:42  <Stablean> <Anson> that replaces all tracks with electric tracks in one go
02:50:20  <Stablean> <Big Meech> hi Sylf :)
02:50:30  <Stablean> <Sylf> meh.
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02:57:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
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03:12:15  <Stablean> <Anson> you should think what you want ... a normal engine with TL0.5 or a double engine with TL1.0 ....
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03:28:40  <Stablean> <Anson> where are goods trains ?
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03:45:29  <Stablean> <ROM5419> @Cameron: you forgot to add catenary on your station
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03:54:47  <Stablean> <Anson> if you would use entry/exit signals at "here", only one train from the left or one from the right could continue
04:06:02  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah,  to for example count how many trains have gone through an area
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04:39:13  <Stablean> *** Player has changed his/her name to Ricky
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04:45:14  <Stablean> <Big Meech> :DDDDDDD
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04:45:34  <bug_sniper> so, why do people like to limit the number of boats and planes?
04:45:49  <Stablean> <Big Meech> b/c they are dumb
04:46:19  <bug_sniper> yeah, but they are how I move valuables
04:46:30  <Stablean> <Big Meech> train
04:47:02  <bug_sniper> but I would need 2 extra trucks and an extra train route to do that
04:47:12  <Stablean> <Big Meech> not that difficult
04:47:40  <bug_sniper> yeah, unless you're living on a cramped island
04:47:56  <Stablean> <Big Meech> V would say irrellevant
04:48:50  <bug_sniper> having another train would add another train to my tiny queue, which can't handle the extra delay
04:49:20  <Stablean> <Anson> sniper, how long are you playing ottd now ?
04:49:27  <bug_sniper> 2 days so far
04:49:53  <Stablean> <Anson> meech, ask V whether that is irrelevant too ? :-)
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04:50:37  <bug_sniper> the first day I was doing just singleplayer and building just busses and single track trains
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04:51:21  <Stablean> <Big Meech> he would probably say yes
04:52:41  <bug_sniper> and I was also trying out what the tutorial said about connecting two towns with busses, and confusing trains with signals so that they get lost and crash eachother
04:53:17  <Stablean> <Big Meech> you will not want to make ships, busses or planes in this server
04:53:44  <bug_sniper> you can certainly see why I would at least sometimes prefer boats and planes from what I've said above
04:53:58  <Stablean> <Big Meech> ignore all the tutorials you've read
04:56:43  <Stablean> *** Anson has joined company #3
04:56:52  <Stablean> <Big Meech> just look around here, build what you see then learn more more more :D
05:04:11  <Stablean> *** Diablo joined the game
05:04:14  <Stablean> <Big Meech> yo
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05:04:29  <Stablean> <Diablo> hello
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05:07:17  <bug_sniper> also, how are you supposed to develop single-town small islands without boats?
05:07:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> like Naninghall
05:07:33  <Stablean> <Big Meech> bus service
05:08:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> seabus service?
05:08:09  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> look at it
05:08:39  <Stablean> <Big Meech> `
05:08:41  <Stablean> <Big Meech> `
05:08:45  <Stablean> <Big Meech> what's the question?
05:11:56  <bug_sniper> and what happens if I demolish part of ann industry
05:12:03  <bug_sniper> does that demolish the whole industry?
05:12:13  <Stablean> <Big Meech> what are you demolishing?
05:12:18  <bug_sniper> because I'd like to make railroad tracks between 2 adjacent industries
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05:13:00  <Stablean> <Anson> if you can delete an industriy at all, the whole will be deleted when you delete a tile
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05:26:42  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> morgen
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05:32:47  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> can someone explain why my train isn't going to sunbourne north?
05:33:02  <bug_sniper> by the way, thnaks for the help, Anson
05:33:58  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> by default the industries can only be remvoed with magic bulldozer, which is turned off
05:35:14  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, I've placed a help me sign where I need help
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05:36:34  <Stablean> <Big Meech> you need electric track there i think
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05:36:52  <Stablean> <Big Meech> woo
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05:36:58  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that did it, thanks
05:37:01  <Stablean> <Big Meech> np
05:37:29  <Stablean> <Big Meech> also you dont need stations that close together
05:37:53  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> do you have another idea?
05:38:07  <Stablean> <Big Meech> mine would have been further apart
05:38:21  <Stablean> <Big Meech> when you start to build you get staiton placement and the white bounding box is the cachement area
05:39:47  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes, I can seperate them a little bit, though  it looks like 2 trains and 2 depots are as much as I can do here
05:44:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I mean, what are you supposed to do about getting mltiple feeder trains in the same place?
05:44:24  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> aside from building multiple stations close together
05:45:02  <Stablean> <Big Meech> you would want the busses to feed the train stations then have the train stations go to another train station
05:49:09  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so, 4/8 means that a place accepts 4 goods at a time, and goods means that it accepts unlimited goods?
05:50:37  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> I think the 4/8 means you need 2 such buildings to make your station accept goods
05:50:47  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> but it always accepts infinite amount
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05:54:56  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, is there any problem with just blowing a strip through the city to replace the roads with railroads?
05:55:26  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> the city will probably have a problem with that :) I do not think players would
05:57:36  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there are now a lot of building without roads connecting them, I feel sorry for their occupants
06:03:36  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how did you build that oil storage tank?
06:03:47  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I need another one of them
06:14:27  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> the oil storage tank is just for show
06:14:41  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> you can build addition buildings under the station tool, to the right
06:14:56  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> most of them serve no real purpose, just neat to the eye
06:19:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
06:19:26  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but which submenu is it under?
06:19:36  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> search
06:22:59  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there, finally found it
06:23:05  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it took forever to find it again
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06:45:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how do you attach a 6th car to a train?
06:45:27  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and make it use up a 6 tile station?
06:46:21  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> never mind
06:59:40  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so, are humongous trains like these ones good?
07:00:16  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> I like short trains
07:13:55  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, is bus scheduling important?
07:13:57  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> no
07:14:27  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> only trains are important
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07:37:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> why is my train unloading passengers then picking up the same passengers?
07:38:14  <planetmaker> !fish
07:38:14  <Stablean> planetmaker: Today's fish is Trout a la crème. Enjoy your meal.
07:38:38  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> could be the transfer orders or something
07:38:40  <planetmaker> bug_sniper transfer and take cargo does that. Use transfer and leave empty
07:38:54  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> that
07:38:58  <planetmaker> or don't use transfer, if you only want to deliver to the final destination
07:39:10  <planetmaker> just use normal 'goto' orders
07:40:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> a conductor would have to be really stupid to make a trainsfer that reloads everyone it drops off
07:40:22  <planetmaker> :-)
07:40:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> stupid game logic
07:40:53  <planetmaker> thinking of how stupid the passengers are then even :-)
07:41:18  <planetmaker> bug_sniper, not really. you simply don't use the orders how they're meant to be used
07:41:35  <planetmaker> if you tell them to get off and then load accepted cargo... that's what happens
07:41:59  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> What orders? It's supposed to be a two-way station
07:42:04  <planetmaker> without cargodist two-way transfers at a single stations don't work
07:42:48  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> what is cargodist?
07:43:22  <planetmaker> one solution to what you complain about ;-) Found in nightly versions so far only
07:43:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah
07:43:35  <planetmaker> Basically it distributes cargo among possible destinations
07:43:50  <planetmaker> thus cargo gets off or onto the train depending on where it thinks it should go
07:45:02  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that should be assumed to be pretty important, because otherwise, it's like shining a laser onto a mirror and not getting a reflection
07:46:28  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and those people on brintford halt are stuck there with nowhere to go once they arrive
07:46:43  <planetmaker>
07:47:06  <planetmaker> anyway... cargodist is not in stable or testing for another 5 months or so
07:47:57  <V453000> we will not be using it here when it is either though, games get too cpu heavy in later stages already
07:48:58  <planetmaker> so on this server you can't use it for now... and might help you though
07:50:25  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> The other problem with that is that I can't put goods on passenger trains
07:50:47  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so such a 2 way feeder service would require 3 or 4 parallel train lines
07:51:41  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and that is what I would probably expect to use only on a main train line
07:52:57  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> anyways, I'll leave and see the public server
07:53:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and see what they are doing there
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07:54:51  <planetmaker> bug_sniper, that's realistic ;-)
07:55:12  <planetmaker> you can't put containers with metal bars in passenger wagons in RL either :-)
07:55:46  <bug_sniper> lol
07:55:49  <bug_sniper> I know that
07:56:17  <bug_sniper> but the unrealistic stuff, combined with the realistic stuff, is what does it
07:56:55  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> I think you can have cargo trains connected to express wagons
08:01:24  <bug_sniper> I guess that's what you call it
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08:37:31  <Stablean> <Vinnie> hello
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09:07:32  <Stablean> <thepower12n> cameron could you remove wruntfield airport?
09:10:39  <Stablean> <Anson> after playing and chatting with sniper for a while, i finally took care of my own network and added a few trains to ships and planes :-) ... just for info: sniper is playing ottd for 2 days now ...
09:12:13  <Stablean> *** solo joined the game
09:13:15  <bug_sniper> hi
09:13:31  <bug_sniper> I'm looking at the public server right now actually, and the pro server to spectate
09:15:13  <Stablean> <Anson> after your first network today, you should read the wiki again to refresh details, but most of all, build a new network, maybe for cargo, on a bigger island on the next map
09:19:41  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, almost can't believe that you are playing ottd for 2 days only ... many people have lots of problems, and joining the PS is not easy
09:22:28  <Stablean> <Anson> about merging different wagons (pax and cargo) on one train : whether that is possible depends on the used trainset ... nuts lists those restrictions in the description when you buy engines and wagons, other trainsets may require that you buy, test, and then sell when it doesn't fit
09:23:31  <Stablean> <Anson> but for bigger networks, it generally should be better to not merge different cargoes, and not cargo and pax ... then it is easier to handle, and you can use full load orders better
09:26:29  <bug_sniper> I see
09:30:23  <Stablean> <Anson> you also should build separate stations for all cargoes that you pickupso that you can better separate waiting trains ... for dropping cargo, it is not important
09:30:34  <bug_sniper> yeah, but there isn't much room
09:30:59  <bug_sniper> I could go with what I did in my lower town, and make it single track with multiple stations
09:31:53  <bug_sniper> but that whole system looks very ugly
09:32:44  <Stablean> <Anson> the small island was good to experiment and test, and not take away space from other people ... but on the next map, take a normal island for yourself and build bigger :-)
09:32:53  <bug_sniper> yeah
09:33:20  <Stablean> <Anson> or is there another island on this map which is not yet used and you start over on that island ?
09:33:20  <bug_sniper> everyone wants me to take a bigger location
09:33:41  <bug_sniper> there was when I left it
09:34:32  <bug_sniper> I haven't checked though
09:34:49  <Stablean> <Anson> i probably will only build a farm network on my island ... if you leave a little space next to farms and next to my rails, you can also build on my island
09:36:15  <Stablean> <Anson> i think most indistries have died already :-( ... but at least there should be more towns with space around them ... you also may use the towns where i transport pax (without such a permission, this would be considered stealing)
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09:36:46  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so how is the game going now?
09:37:20  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, on my small island, I had good reason to use boats
09:37:30  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and maybe even planes if I have to connect my island
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09:39:49  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so I'm still making money here
09:40:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> though the rate is decreasing
09:41:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there's a semi decent island near slinhill
09:41:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it has a farm, a factory, a copper mine, and 2 cities
09:43:03  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and everything bigger seems to be taken
09:43:06  <Stablean> <Anson> that should be good enough for a nice start ... three types of cargo for the factory, and then goods from there to a town ...
09:43:36  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah
09:43:38  <Stablean> <bug_sniper>
09:44:04  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but there is a farm next to a factory in a peninsula
09:44:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I can't test any fancy trains like maglevs on it
09:45:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and all these farms are going to be expensive to build on
09:45:30  <Stablean> <Anson> why not ... maglev are fastzer and have better acceleration ... or you can use wet rails :-) ... they are a nice part of the nuts set
09:46:13  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, there are farms everywhere, so it will be expensive to build anything
09:47:03  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and the factory seems to have dissapeared
09:47:14  <Stablean> <Anson> i am just using chameleon trains ... a subset of nuts which drives on monorails, but you can only use chameleon engines and wagons together, not merge with other monorail
09:47:44  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the only thing I'd be carrying are passengers between towns
09:48:10  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> unless I found a factery again
09:48:20  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> or I fund one
09:49:10  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so I would have to pay 3.5 million for the factory
09:49:17  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> which is most of my savings
09:49:24  <Stablean> <Anson> you'll have enough to do to train building tracks, setting up signals, and giving orders ... and on the next game come bigger networks with different cargoes :-)
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09:49:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> can the next game be in candyland please
09:49:55  <Stablean> <Anson> factory costs 13 million now
09:50:19  <Stablean> <Anson> now 14 ... inflation is on :-)
09:50:37  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it's only 3.5 million points for me though
09:50:40  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> in price
09:50:54  <Stablean> <Anson> which currency ? .-)
09:51:09  <Stablean> <Anson> i use DM ... we don't have the euro yet :-)
09:51:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> GBP
09:51:20  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the default
09:51:28  <Stablean> <Anson> my default is DM
09:51:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> you mean DEM?
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09:52:40  <Stablean> <Anson> yes ... official three letter abbreviation is DEM, like GBP ... inofficial name is DM and pund
09:52:47  <Stablean> <Anson> * pound
09:52:59  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, it's 14 million DEM, and I have only 16 million DEM
09:54:09  <Stablean> <Anson> while we played, i got only 19 millions and i spent already 30+ millions now ... but with a train network, i earn much more than with those ships and planes :-)
09:54:09  <Stablean> <thepower12n> could anyone lend me 1 mil?
10:01:51  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> Why was I referred to the rules?
10:03:23  <Stablean> <Anson> the player Macezadon asked for the !rules ... and later you typed !rules yourself
10:03:57  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so it wasn't an answer to a request for a different game tpye
10:04:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> type
10:07:18  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so I figured out how to make sure these feeder trains pick up some passengers from 1 side
10:09:05  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm using timetables to handle it
10:14:24  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> This game is confusing as to where mail should come from and where it should go
10:14:42  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> often, people just get off and get back on the same train
10:14:56  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> which is a good reason not to like this game
10:18:54  <Stablean> <Anson> the rules are simple for loading and unloading ... if you unload something where it is accepted, it will go to the town/factory ... if you transfer, it is unloaded but stays on the station to be picked up by the next train
10:19:24  <Stablean> <Anson> if you load something, it is loaded, and it doesn't matter whether you yourself just had unloaded it with a transfer command
10:19:34  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and what happens if it comes back to where it came from?
10:19:56  <Stablean> <Anson> cargo is not accepted at the station where it came from
10:20:28  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how about if it goes in all the way across the map and ends up near where it started?
10:21:50  <Stablean> <Anson> taht's why i put an "unload and leave empty" at a factory drop and not rely on "unload" to do the work ... if a (new) mine/farm appears near the factory, that carho could be loaded automatically and then i would be stuck with full trains which don't know where to unload (since the factory doesn't accept the cargo that was loaded at the same station)
10:22:18  <Stablean> <Anson> near = different .... same = not accepted
10:23:44  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, is it better for trains to wait or to move?
10:24:30  <Stablean> <Anson> ask a train :-) ... but waiting and running costs the same running costs ... only being explicitly stopped will reduce running costs to 0
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10:31:29  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> well, I could take the place behind Diablo's area
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10:33:02  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, I've done what I can
10:33:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> with the little Island I have
10:34:38  <Stablean> <[RO] RTM> hi all
10:34:40  <Stablean> <r1kkie> hi
11:03:05  <Stablean> <thepower12n> lol 26 trains and already jams;9
11:08:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how do you see behind industries?
11:08:29  <Stablean> <[RO] RTM> X
11:08:35  <Stablean> <[RO] RTM> all hidden
11:11:35  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and how do you lower strips of land?
11:12:39  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it's too bad I can't just lower squares of land
11:13:14  <Stablean> <r1kkie> what do u mean?
11:13:44  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm trying to get a third side station next to my refinery
11:15:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I tried tunnelling, flattening, and using the landscape lower command, but can't create a path from the leftmost track to the roghtmost track
11:16:42  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Do u see my signs?
11:16:44  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it's very wrong how landscaping is so expensive but there's no assurance that you'll get any benefit out of it.
11:17:14  <Stablean> <Anson> without the high TF costs, some people would start flattening whole mountains
11:17:25  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Yep
11:17:43  <Stablean> <Anson> same for modifying water ... without the high costs, some people would just flatten the whole world
11:17:45  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and yes, tha'ts what I mean
11:18:27  <Stablean> <Anson> the map should also roughly have one island for each player (max 15 companies on this server)
11:18:50  <Stablean> <Anson> with cheap water terraforming, people would make one big island out of two islands
11:19:06  <Stablean> <Anson> that's also a reason why bridges are relatively short
11:22:04  <Stablean> <Anson> what do you want to achieve ? put up a sign where you want the new additional station to be ...
11:22:38  <Stablean> <Anson> a new pax station ?
11:22:48  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> why not let people flatten mountains? People have done it with explosives before.
11:23:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> a new goods station over there actually
11:23:13  <Stablean> <Anson> i am speaking of FLATTENING them, not of lowering parts
11:23:45  <Stablean> <Anson> and when people start to flatten the world, we wouldn't need any maps at all, just a flat 512x512 area
11:24:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but why build tracks under that bridge?
11:24:34  <Stablean> <r1kkie> You told me the left track should connect to the end of your track to the right. :)
11:25:04  <Stablean> <Anson> because we don't understand what you want to do ... rikkie thought that you wanted to connect the pax tracks to the main line/loop ....
11:25:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there's that's what I'm trying to do
11:25:58  <Stablean> <Anson> you see where to put the rails to connect ?
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11:28:10  <Stablean> <Anson> btw: you have set up a few bad signals ...
11:29:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> where?
11:29:22  <Stablean> <Anson> i put signs
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11:30:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> does that work
11:30:50  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> afternoon
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11:33:28  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> what a tricky game this is
11:33:52  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, you didn't see the spacial tricks yet :-)
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11:34:34  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes
11:35:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm on beginner's island right now
11:35:07  <Stablean> <Anson> there are more signals to adjust ... start with them to get rid of those small problems ...
11:35:09  <Stablean> <r1kkie> :)
11:35:35  <Stablean> <r1kkie> its easier to build on a bigger island where u have more space. :D
11:36:45  <Stablean> <Anson> i think this small island started just as demonstration how to build a large loop/oval :-)
11:36:57  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> maybe
11:37:27  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> goods are slow to make for some reason
11:37:53  <Stablean> <Anson> goods are made in relation to the oil you deliver
11:38:03  <Stablean> <Anson> if you deliver no oil, you get no goods
11:38:13  <Stablean> <r1kkie> That sucks. ;)
11:38:13  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I deliver a lot
11:38:25  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> a lot is relative :)
11:38:35  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Haha yes it is. :D
11:38:49  <Stablean> <Anson> NOW you delivered, and also got goods
11:39:49  <Stablean> <Anson> look at the refinery window : production / %transported is a fraction of what you could get when serviced very good with fast trains etc
11:40:11  <Stablean> <Anson> currently, you get something like 60% only
11:40:29  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it varies
11:40:43  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> because I've been doing a lot of contruction
11:41:09  <Stablean> <Anson> then you don't have to winder why you get few goods only
11:42:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> why should 2 way blocks be 1 way?
11:42:51  <Stablean> <Anson> do you want trains to go backwards into the station ?
11:43:09  <Stablean> <Anson> if no, you should use 1way block signals
11:43:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it won't matter, that's rare and it won't cause collisions with the signals
11:43:41  <Stablean> <Anson> 1way block signals should be the default, and be used whenever possible
11:44:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> if so, it should be easier to do so
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11:45:38  <Stablean> <Anson> when you use 2way signals, it has some side effects ... you will notice that when you put them near splits ... and at joins and straights, it doesn't matter, and thus you should stick to the default of 1way block signals
11:46:26  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'd be happy to do so if therer was an automated process to fix that
11:46:45  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but I'm too tired right now
11:46:52  <Stablean> <Anson> and if you don't do it for yourself, do it so that other people easily see that it's a normal rail, and no special case
11:47:19  <Stablean> <Anson> an automated process to change a single signal ? how ? .-) LOL
11:47:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> did that work?
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11:48:06  <Stablean> <r1kkie> You connect a wire to your brain and think it. :)
11:48:48  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> my train of thought shakes goes backwards sometimes
11:51:22  <Stablean> <Anson> signals should be ok now
11:52:12  <Stablean> <Anson> problem remains : what did you want to build ? a third station ? where ? at the border of the map ?
11:52:48  <Stablean> <Anson> at the border of the map, it would make no sense ... a station has only range 4, and thus there would be no houses in range ... thus no station needed
11:53:58  <bug_sniper> an extra station to get goods to the other town while one stopped accepting goods
11:54:30  <Stablean> <Anson> speaking of signals and their defaults .... there is a setting in advanced settings, where you can select whether you want to have block or path as default, and whether you want a signal gui
11:55:13  <Stablean> <Anson> ah, a platform for goods
11:55:55  <Stablean> <Anson> you probably best will use the curtent oil drop for the goods pickup, and add a new station with one platform for the oil drop
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11:56:27  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it's not necessary now
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11:59:53  <Stablean> <Anson> done :-)
12:00:19  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok
12:00:30  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the landscaping must have been expensive though
12:00:57  <Stablean> <Anson> you only need to give orders now .... change orders for oil drop to use the new station Brintford Heights, and give orders to two goods trains to full load at Brintford East
12:01:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I already have my goods handled at the top city for now
12:01:57  <Stablean> <Anson> to see prices of ANY actions you want to make, do it but hold shift while doing so ...
12:02:43  <Stablean> <Anson> raising one dot/vortex costs only 168k euro, or 84k pounds
12:04:05  <Stablean> <Anson> houses are only built on either side of a road, and only directly next to the road ...
12:04:19  <Stablean> <Anson> thus it is best to put a road in the middle when you have 3 tiles space
12:04:55  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that was a mistake
12:05:29  <Stablean> <Anson> hold ctrl --> cursor turns red and you can remove rails or roads
12:05:55  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but does it work to build roads over railroads on signals to add area to a city?
12:06:47  <Stablean> <Anson> maybe a bit slower, but houses are built everywghere that a road connects, even through tunnels or over bridges
12:09:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so, it doesn't work to put roads like that?
12:09:03  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> !date
12:09:03  <Stablean> BoXcAr_MeEcH: 26 May 2004
12:10:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that train system works fine from what I saw
12:13:26  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I think the path reservation signals worked fine there
12:13:38  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> because  trains spend a lot of their time there
12:14:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> now I can't get trains between the depot and the second line
12:14:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> oh, I see, you had another idea
12:14:54  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but how are trains going to go from brintford north to the depot?
12:15:01  <Stablean> <Anson> it is a double track now ... one rail forth and the other back
12:15:09  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> yoooooooooooooo
12:15:21  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, I originally made that
12:15:36  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> line and planned it for very long trains
12:15:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> which is why the stations are so long
12:15:52  <Stablean> <Anson> you said that it worked ... but the trains always deadlocked at the pbs signals you had
12:16:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, at the newer sings
12:16:40  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that I was using to try to get a street crossing on the train tracks
12:16:46  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that was the only problem there
12:16:53  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> they worked originally
12:17:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> well, I guess this may as well be better
12:18:02  <Stablean> <Anson> you can't safely put a street crossing on rails ... either the trains are slow enough and the buses fast enough so that they can avoid crashes themselves, or it will crash sooner or later ... no signals can stop a train when a bus is on the track
12:18:24  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
12:18:54  <Stablean> <Anson> that's why on this server, towns are forbidden to build such road crossings
12:19:10  <Stablean> <Anson> (besides the fact that towns also are forbidden to build roads at all :-)
12:20:08  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> also, is there any way to get more oil out of the wells?
12:20:14  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> or get oil faster
12:20:36  <Stablean> <Anson> patience, wait a few hundred years, and hope for good luck
12:21:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> wow, sunbourne is doing well, even though there aren't any goods coming to it
12:21:17  <Stablean> <Anson> on average(!), resources should increase production over time, up to 2000+ ... but oil is a bit special sometimes
12:22:23  <Stablean> <Anson> click the town name : the town will grow every 38 days ... that is caused by transporting lots of pax
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12:22:47  <Stablean> <Anson> no need for long distance transports ... an inner city bus is good enough
12:23:42  <Stablean> <Anson> but you have a deadlock in Sunbourne too ... two trains face each other on a single track line ....
12:24:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes, I was trying something else out
12:25:15  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm not sure why those trains aren't going anywhere
12:25:25  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> they worked in the past
12:26:41  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it's odd how brintford woods started accepting goods and it now has a not of them waiting at the station
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12:27:27  <Stablean> <Anson> you probably unloaded them ... thus they stacked up at the station while it did not accept goods
12:27:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, there isn't much to do about those trains in that south city
12:29:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> why not put signals on a single rail?
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12:30:14  <Stablean> <Dnz-Ali> hi
12:30:28  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I like the Y building by the way
12:30:34  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and the o building
12:33:17  <Stablean> <Anson> you will always have a problem with two trains on a single track, and even more so when their orders overlap like this : track goes ABCD, one train services AC and the other BD ... that never can work
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12:34:13  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see, so they deadlocked like that
12:34:36  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> though it must have been problematic from the beginning
12:34:59  <Stablean> <Anson> no ... at the beginning, you had two stations and one train :-)
12:36:57  <Stablean> <Anson> when two trains share a rail or a platform, you should always avoid "full load" orders since one train might be faster on his side and then have to wait for the other
12:37:09  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
12:37:52  <Stablean> <Anson> when a train might block a platform, always have a bypass ready, or in case the two trains want to load at the same station, have some waiting space in front of the station
12:38:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok
12:40:06  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> have a good one guys :)(
12:40:20  <Stablean> <Anson> look at the oil drop ....
12:40:34  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
12:40:48  <Stablean> <Anson> there is waiting space in front of the station, so that trains don't queue back onto the mainline and jam it
12:40:54  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
12:41:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I think I need to get some rest, so good night
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12:41:37  <Stablean> <Anson> both stations can always have 3 trains servicing them ... one station has 1 platform and 2 waiting bays, the other 2 platforms and one bay
12:42:19  <Stablean> <Anson> i need some food first, and then also some sleep :-)
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12:44:24  <Stablean> <Liuk Sk> hi
12:45:15  <Stablean> <Anson> sniper, do you still hear me on IRC ?
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14:00:32  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> hello everyone!
14:01:16  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> brb actually
14:01:20  <Stablean> <Jam35> hi Smashy
14:01:30  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> oh wait, still here
14:01:32  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> hello jam
14:01:38  <Stablean> <Jam35> Smashy fingery
14:02:04  <Stablean> <Jam35> so... how ?
14:02:30  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> how what? did i get my name?
14:02:36  <Stablean> <Jam35> yep :)
14:02:46  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> woodsplitters man
14:03:04  <Stablean> <Jam35> ouch
14:03:40  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> so, I'm new to this server. are there no steel mills?
14:04:14  <Stablean> <Jam35> open gfx industries
14:06:21  <Stablean> <Jam35> look at the industry chains if you're stuck
14:06:29  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> ah, right!
14:06:31  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> ty
14:08:21  <Stablean> *** Jam35 has joined company #6
14:19:22  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> gtg now
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14:19:31  <Stablean> <Jam35> bb
14:20:34  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> thepower12n: the dock is fine, but the airport will be a problem :(
14:20:54  <Stablean> <thepower12n> where?
14:21:08  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> there is only one airport near my tracks :)
14:21:43  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> ty
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14:42:26  <Stablean> <Muel> hi
14:42:30  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> hy
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14:44:27  <Stablean> <King Peky> Hello
14:44:29  <Stablean> <Muel> hou
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15:35:28  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> my network is now officially awesome
15:35:32  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> trains replaced :>
15:35:54  <Stablean> <solo> jam free :>
15:36:18  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> well the new trains are asolutely horrible in transporting, so I will need more of them but still .. :)
15:36:29  <Stablean> <solo> ye but that acceleration
15:36:55  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> doesnt quite compensate for the halved capacity :D
15:37:01  <Stablean> <solo> is it halved?:p
15:37:07  <Stablean> <solo> i thought 2/3
15:37:10  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> in compare to chameleons, about half
15:37:25  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> different wagon capacities and chameleon engines can carry cargo
15:37:35  <Stablean> <solo> k
15:37:42  <Stablean> <solo> whats next step then
15:37:48  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> more trains? :)
15:37:51  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> or next engine?
15:38:13  <Stablean> <solo> no idea, i never play here just learning this pre signalling a bit:)
15:38:24  <Stablean> <solo> dont know if usefull for me but looks alright like this
15:38:38  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> no clue what are you talking about
15:38:54  <Stablean> <solo> combination of combo/pre/block signals
15:39:13  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> quite good to know yes
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15:52:32  <Stablean> <solo> looks challenging :)
15:53:48  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> what is challenging? :)
15:53:58  <Stablean> <solo> what you are doing looks challenging :-)
15:54:32  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> hm :)
15:54:54  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> well it certainly is a lot more interesting than building for just a few years :)
15:55:34  <Stablean> <solo> x)
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16:00:02  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> hi all
16:00:12  <Stablean> <Jam35> hi
16:00:18  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> how  things
16:00:21  <Stablean> <Jam35> good
16:00:41  <Stablean> *** happy tran {} sport has joined company #6
16:00:58  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> good  thanks
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16:18:55  <Stablean> <Muel> hi
16:18:59  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> hello
16:19:01  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> hi
16:19:03  <Stablean> <solo> hiho
16:19:11  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> solo btw see the first article on if you want to see challenging :)
16:19:23  <Stablean> <solo> its that about the 5k trains thingy?
16:19:29  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> y
16:19:35  <Stablean> <solo> i read it a bit
16:19:35  <Stablean> <solo> :)
16:19:45  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> the savegame is more important for more people probably :)
16:19:51  <Stablean> <solo> ye
16:19:53  <Stablean> <As_Thunder> also im done
16:19:55  <Stablean> *** As_Thunder has changed his/her name to V453000
16:19:59  <Stablean> <V453000> screw you Jam35
16:19:59  <Stablean> <solo> where is the savegame?
16:20:05  <Stablean> <V453000> there is a link to it in the blog
16:20:11  <Stablean> <V453000> in the introduction
16:20:17  <Stablean> <solo> oh
16:20:30  <Jam35> haha
16:20:34  <Stablean> <V453000> I mean come on I wasnt even evil enough to hide it in the conclusion :P
16:20:41  <Jam35> Mrs bottom burp :D
16:20:45  <V453000> :(
16:21:15  <Stablean> <V453000> I thought I will play one game without people talking to me, and Jam35 recognizes me after 2 years of playing
16:21:17  <Stablean> <V453000> seriously :(
16:21:32  <Stablean> <solo> call me crazy but i dont see the savegame :>
16:21:36  <Jam35> as soon as I joined :P
16:21:56  <V453000>
16:21:58  <V453000> it gets you there
16:22:01  <Stablean> <solo> ye
16:22:02  <V453000> which is where the savegame is
16:22:05  <Jam35> all the clues: brown company, the name, most importantly build style
16:22:11  <Jam35> who else?
16:22:11  <Stablean> <solo> got it
16:22:27  <V453000> your argument is invalid Jam35 , you are a bitch
16:22:35  <Stablean> <V453000> BUT
16:22:45  <Stablean> <solo> what version is it?
16:22:45  <Stablean> <V453000> to remedy your bitch illness, there is one new engine in NUTS
16:22:55  <Stablean> <V453000> nightly, just get the newest
16:23:33  <Stablean> *** Muel has left the game (leaving)
16:24:20  <Jam35> another C4T?
16:24:25  <Stablean> <V453000> you will see
16:24:32  <Stablean> <solo> haha
16:24:38  <Stablean> <solo> what have you done to that map
16:24:40  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
16:24:47  <Stablean> <solo> ok let me figure it out a bit :)
16:25:13  <Stablean> *** {[RO]} RTM joined the game
16:25:25  <Stablean> <V453000> the blog articles help with figuring out :)
16:25:31  <Stablean> <V453000> savegame is for going wtf :)
16:25:33  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Ohh crap!
16:25:43  <Stablean> *** [RO] RTM has left the game (processing map took too long)
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16:25:47  <Stablean> <V453000> wat
16:26:01  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Told all my trains to go to depots instead of te ships. :(
16:26:04  <Stablean> <V453000> :))
16:26:12  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Epic fail
16:26:42  <Stablean> <solo> thats a nice way to inject trains to mainline
16:26:49  <Stablean> <V453000> the most effective one there is
16:26:55  <Stablean> <r1kkie> :P
16:26:57  <Stablean> <V453000> or well, with the most effective result
16:27:23  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Lost train all over. haha
16:27:37  <Stablean> <solo> and thats that dummy use for simultaniously loading trains right?
16:27:40  <Stablean> <V453000> the way to do it is so hard and the things you have to do for it are so space consuming (requires whole game to adapt to it) that you  probably cant talk about "Effective" :)
16:27:46  <Stablean> <V453000> yes pretty much
16:27:53  <Stablean> <V453000> we call that @@srnw
16:27:53  <Webster> srnw: Self-regulating Network, see also:
16:28:01  <Stablean> <solo> ye just read through that one
16:28:07  <Stablean> <solo> :)
16:28:13  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
16:28:27  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Going to take a while...
16:28:30  <Stablean> <V453000> well, that is the absolutely hardest game I ever played :P
16:28:57  <Stablean> <solo> mygod haha
16:29:08  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Haha
16:29:23  <Stablean> <solo> so purely timebased injectors using trains as timers
16:29:27  <Stablean> <solo> sweet
16:29:29  <Stablean> <V453000> one timer
16:29:36  <Stablean> <V453000> you can see !central timer near the drop
16:29:50  <Stablean> <V453000> rest is just logic to make it work precisely
16:30:04  <Stablean> <V453000> you can read about that in the article about the original game, there is a link in the blog too
16:30:11  <Stablean> <solo> ok
16:30:21  <Stablean> <solo> whats this station size
16:30:43  <Stablean> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
16:30:48  <Stablean> <V453000> 64xsomething
16:30:54  <Stablean> *** happy tran {} sport has joined spectators
16:31:07  <Stablean> <solo> ye ok
16:31:09  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Haha talk a about jam. haha
16:31:32  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> be back  later
16:31:40  <Stablean> <r1kkie> cya
16:31:42  <Stablean> <Anson> rikkie, what's the problem ? did you have visible depots ? .-)
16:31:58  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Yep. Haha
16:32:00  <Stablean> *** happy tran  sport has left the game (leaving)
16:32:12  <Stablean> <r1kkie> I guess
16:32:32  <Stablean> <Anson> if someone asks why people should have invisible depots, I'll send them to you, ok ? .-)
16:32:43  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Sure. :P
16:32:55  <Stablean> <r1kkie> But Im not sure what an invisible depot is... :P
16:33:04  <Stablean> *** Dom joined the game
16:33:07  <Stablean> <Dom> hello
16:33:10  <Stablean> <V453000> hy
16:33:21  <Stablean> <Anson> a depot that the pathfinder doesn't see, so that it can't send trains there from the mainline
16:33:31  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Ah ok.
16:33:54  <Stablean> <Anson> invisible depots are behind terminus stations and reversers
16:34:12  <Stablean> <r1kkie> Gona hit the shower, see if the trafic is ok again. :P
16:34:46  <Stablean> <Anson> i think i just built a nice overflow depot with invisible depot :-)
16:36:16  <Stablean> <Anson> at Flinnton Grain 2
16:38:26  <Stablean> *** Dom has started a new company (#14)
16:41:51  <Stablean> <solo> thanx V that is a cool watch
16:41:55  <Stablean> <V453000> yw
16:42:13  <Stablean> <V453000> do that without presignals :P
16:42:16  <Stablean> <solo> impossible :)
16:42:22  <Stablean> <V453000> I know
16:47:06  <Stablean> <V453000> MOR RAILZ
16:51:34  <Stablean> *** r1kkie has left the game (leaving)
16:53:27  <Stablean> <solo> that huge hill at the end of the line
16:53:34  <Stablean> <solo> stylish :)
16:53:48  <Stablean> <V453000> that actually pretty bad, the station should be built a lot better
16:53:54  <Stablean> <V453000> but rebuild that ...
16:54:16  <Stablean> <solo> hmm
16:54:52  <Stablean> <V453000> for "general public" viewers it is good enough :P
16:55:31  <Stablean> <solo> half of the merges injectors prioritizers overflowers cyclotron-likes have no clue how they work so :)
16:55:49  <Stablean> <solo> but thats because i never worked with these pre-signals
16:55:49  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
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17:00:16  <Stablean> <Anson> I'll have to eat something ... will be back later
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17:42:18  <Stablean> <solo> cu :)
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18:34:02  <Stablean> <Dom> how come my trains arent making any money xD does transfering doesnt get your cahs?!
18:34:25  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> maybe
18:34:47  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> I forget how it works. are you trying to move the product further or stop it there?
18:34:55  <Stablean> <Dom> moving pax
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18:35:17  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> sorry, what are pax?
18:35:23  <Stablean> <Dom> passengers
18:35:54  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> ah, not sure about those then. you might have to just unload them? dont quote me on that tho
18:37:08  <Stablean> <Dom> fail
18:37:10  <Stablean> <Dom> epic fail
18:37:48  <Stablean> <Dom> transfering doesnt actually get you money it just shows you cash but you dont get it ...
18:37:50  <Stablean> <Dom> lol
18:37:56  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> hm
18:39:24  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> are you doing anything with that copper ore mine, farm, and factory by Gronwood Woods
18:39:26  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> ?
18:39:44  <Stablean> <Dom> me?
18:40:30  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> \
18:40:52  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> shoot, is there a way to turn on a chatlog?
18:41:06  <Stablean> <Dom> go into the irc channel
18:41:25  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> erm, what does that mean?
18:41:36  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> sorry, bit of a noob
18:41:40  <Stablean> <Dom> irc  = internet relay chat
18:41:46  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> AHA
18:41:52  <Stablean> <Dom> @@ quickstart
18:41:55  <Stablean> <Dom> ...
18:42:19  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> and yes i was talking to you when i was talking about the farm factory and mine
18:42:37  <Stablean> <Dom> no im not using industries
18:43:39  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> im going to build there if you dont mind then
18:50:21  <Stablean> <V453000> open the console
18:50:23  <Stablean> <V453000> key under Esc
18:50:31  <Stablean> <Dom> or that
18:52:13  <Stablean> <V453000> but of course irc is better :)
18:52:23  <Stablean> <V453000> you can easily access one from
18:52:47  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> i just use console
18:56:17  <Stablean> <V453000> lol Dom :)
18:58:11  <Jam35> will that TL10 PS game not make the archives as not much happened?
18:58:30  <Stablean> <V453000> :d no someone who archived it (Mark) just did not write it
18:58:32  <Stablean> <V453000> so please do :>
19:00:10  <Stablean> <Jam35> I'll have a look, where do I find the game?
19:00:20  <Stablean> <V453000> just copy a link of any game
19:00:26  <Stablean> <V453000> and replace the number
19:01:00  <Stablean> <V453000> if you cant find it, its lost and we can blame meech :)
19:01:02  <Stablean> <V453000> or Mark
19:01:25  <Stablean> <Jam35> :) oky
19:02:05  <Stablean> *** bug_sniper joined the game
19:03:19  <Stablean> <V453000> these cute little cunts require full signalling on diagonals
19:03:21  <Stablean> <V453000> too good acceleration
19:06:45  <Stablean> <Jam35> ... except don't I need all the game info? dates , game version etc?
19:06:59  <Stablean> <V453000>  @@coopstats
19:07:00  <Webster> #openttdcoop @ OFTC stats by Webster -
19:07:22  <V453000> see the bottom
19:07:25  <V453000> topic changes
19:07:51  <Stablean> <V453000> no comments on my number of lines etc
19:08:40  *** bug_sniper has joined #openttdcoop.stable
19:09:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> hi
19:09:11  <Stablean> <V453000> hello
19:09:29  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> greeting
19:11:44  <bug_sniper> so it looks like Anson did a nice job of upgrading my small operation
19:12:36  <Stablean> <V453000> thats quite a progress to be playing openttd for 2 days and get slaves working for you already
19:12:39  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
19:13:08  <Stablean> *** Liuk Sk joined the game
19:13:11  <Stablean> <Liuk Sk> hi
19:13:14  <Stablean> <V453000> hy
19:14:56  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> how big does a town have to be to accept goods?
19:15:02  <Stablean> <V453000> any size
19:15:08  <Stablean> <V453000> only specific buildings matter
19:15:11  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> huh, ty
19:15:22  <Stablean> <V453000> if you pick the "?" tool on the right of the top menu
19:15:28  <Stablean> <V453000> you can check the Good (X/8)
19:15:42  <Stablean> <V453000> if you have buildings which together combined give more than 8/8, it accepts goods
19:15:58  <Stablean> <V453000> or something like that I dont know exactly the numbes but I assume it is 8/8
19:16:32  <Stablean> <V453000> so you can basically demolish all buildings and keep just the accepting ones, get a town with ~100 population, and still have goods drop :)
19:16:34  <Stablean> <Anson> back from eating ...
19:16:44  <Stablean> <SmashedFinger> haha
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19:17:51  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> to the public server? someone told me it
19:18:09  <Stablean> <V453000> what do you mean by that
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19:24:19  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, sniper ?
19:24:25  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> hi
19:25:15  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I think it's easier to do that with irc
19:25:25  <Stablean> <Anson> please open the console and read team chat :-)
19:25:51  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the console is how I read my chat history
19:27:25  <Stablean> <Anson> shall i tell a private password on irc, or rather in team chat ?
19:27:39  <Stablean> <Cameron> keep it in team
19:27:40  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> you can do it by irc
19:28:19  <Anson> this can be read by everybody
19:28:58  <V453000> type /query bug_sniper
19:29:14  <Stablean> <Anson> /query bug_sniper
19:29:59  <V453000> in irc...
19:30:26  <Anson> i did both... no reaction here in irc
19:30:40  <bug_sniper> did you get my pm?
19:30:56  <bug_sniper> let me see how andchat works
19:31:19  <Anson> depends on how complete the irc client implementation is... mine is minimal
19:31:33  <bug_sniper> use /msg
19:31:42  <Stablean> <V453000> I havent yet seen client without query
19:32:00  <bug_sniper> they use different names for the command
19:32:02  <Stablean> <V453000> and I only use webclients which I believe are rather simple
19:32:08  <Stablean> <V453000> hm
19:32:18  <bug_sniper> Anson can't because he is on the android
19:32:18  <Stablean> <V453000> well clicking the nickname in the client list usually also works
19:34:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> are there any planes that can be used for making money?
19:34:00  <Stablean> <Anson> lol ... that might work ... there is a butoon for the client list, and the client list has buttons below it for message, whois, ignore, and more
19:34:27  <Stablean> <Cameron> 747, and A380 good right now
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19:37:09  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> those are very expensive planes you're running
19:37:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> are there any less expensive ones?
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19:44:30  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> are there any airports near my area?
19:44:49  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> or can I guild an airport in someone else's area?
19:52:31  <Stablean> <Anson> sniper .. besides farmsand a little space next to my rails, you can use my island
19:55:07  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> is it possible to get passengers all the way from my airport to yours Anson?
19:55:21  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I think the aircraft required would be too expensive
19:55:55  <Stablean> <Anson> airports are stations ... you cant ghet pax from or to my airports
19:56:46  <Stablean> <Anson> just like you can't connect yor rails to my stations
19:57:53  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> this is wierd, I removed a station and I can't build it back now
19:58:21  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> says flat land is required
19:58:35  <Stablean> <Anson> not at all :-( ... when you have a bad reputation, authorities won't allow building
19:59:10  <Stablean> <Anson> you can plant trees to improve reputation, or if you have a working station nearby you can wait until reputation improves
20:00:06  <Stablean> <Anson> reputation will drop when you destroy something or terraform, or for any unused/inactive stations you have there ... and it will increase for every well serviced station you have there
20:00:20  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, figured that out
20:00:31  *** ODM has quit IRC
20:00:39  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and got that done
20:02:05  <Stablean> <Anson> btw: i replaced the default stations you had with nicer japanese stations :-) and i replaced the monorails with purr, using white for the mainline, green for pax and goods stations, and blue for oil, yellow for feeder lines
20:03:03  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, thanks
20:03:25  <Stablean> <Anson> now you can replace trains by any other trains ... including maglev, rail, chameleon, and even wet :-)
20:03:55  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how about monorails?
20:06:49  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> auto renew fail, can attach only on WET rails
20:07:12  <Stablean> <Anson> purr are universal rails and can be used for all other railtypes ... yes, also mono
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20:09:55  <Jam35> V45300: ok I entered it 3 TIMES and loss of session data each time. Fuck it now :)
20:10:14  <Jam35> *V453000
20:12:05  <Stablean> <Anson> if you look at your oil tankers now : max speed is only 80 and other trains are 120 (50% faster), but the wet trains have nice capacityof 45 tonnes or 45k liters while the best rail wagons have 35 only, and the 1st generatiion that you had, only 24 ...
20:12:44  <Stablean> <Anson> and wet trains have LOTS of power and TE
20:15:08  <Stablean> <Anson> how do i leave a message/channel on irc ?
20:15:56  *** Anson has quit IRC
20:16:24  *** Anson has joined #openttdcoop.stable
20:17:34  <Stablean> <Anson> .... /leave ? ... /exit ? ... neither works ... and /quit disconnects all channels, but the private chat stays
20:22:17  <Stablean> <V453000> Jam35: lol :D
20:23:34  <Jam35> unlol :(
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20:25:35  <Stablean> <Dom> huhu
20:26:17  <Stablean> <V453000> hoho
20:27:38  <Stablean> *** Yoshi joined the game
20:27:53  <Stablean> <Yoshi> hi
20:31:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> hi yoshi
20:34:22  <Stablean> <Yoshi> NUTS forever? :D
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20:34:33  <Stablean> <Yoshi> @V: very impressive network :D
20:35:41  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> why can't I make a train that carries half livestock and half grain?
20:35:47  <Stablean> <V453000> hello :)
20:36:02  <Stablean> <V453000> nuts forever indeed
20:36:28  <Stablean> <Anson> you shouldn't attempt that ... but in case you still want to do it :
20:37:19  <Stablean> <Anson> make a train with wagons and refit to grain ... then remove some grain wagons in the depot and refit the train to livestock ... then add the grain wagons again
20:38:29  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> exactly what I wanted, thanks
20:38:31  <Stablean> <Anson> that is the flipside of being able to refit universal wagons to anything ... but who wants to mix those cargoes on one train anyway ?
20:38:37  <Stablean> *** Dom has left the game (leaving)
20:39:25  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how about someone who otherwise has a lot of fields in the way
20:39:43  <Stablean> <Anson> it is more work, but also more efficient to build two stations, one for grain and one for livestock
20:43:25  <Stablean> <Cameron> holy shit V
20:43:35  <Stablean> <Cameron> build much :P
20:43:41  <Stablean> <V453000> what :)
20:47:39  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> because I'm tring to let the trains reserve a path through this intersection
20:48:45  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> oops, can't even get more than a small station in there
20:49:21  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how about we do it this way
20:51:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I know it's not that great, but what better option do I have?
20:51:30  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and I think that's CL0
20:52:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the hills make it hard to have a good curve length
20:53:07  <Stablean> <Anson> the train is short ... you need only a station with 3 tiles for TL 2.5
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20:57:24  <Stablean> <Anson> did you build the station electrified ?
20:57:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes
20:57:41  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I hope so
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21:01:10  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so is this better?
21:02:30  <Stablean> <Anson> yes !
21:04:42  <Stablean> <Anson> like you built it now, you easily can add another platform (if needed on longer routes, when you have more than 1 train)
21:09:20  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, always be careful when removing signals
21:09:46  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I don't think we need lots of connections between these train lines
21:09:53  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> they can be seperated
21:09:56  <Stablean> <Anson> do you see which connection is missing ? one single rail
21:10:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> no, I don't
21:10:29  <Stablean> <Yoshi> bye :)
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21:10:43  <Stablean> <Anson> the train comes from A and you told it to go to B ... then there HAS to be a connection
21:11:38  <Stablean> <Anson> that second rail would have been nice, in case you add a second goods train
21:11:49  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes, but that leads to confusion
21:12:03  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> and I'd have to destroy bigger building to make that
21:12:13  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> maybe
21:12:15  <Stablean> <Anson> no .. the confusion was only the missing rail that you just have added
21:15:34  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> so as you can see, for now, my only use of track sharing is to have multiple trains use the same depot
21:16:48  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> let me see how it works though
21:17:16  <Stablean> <Anson> it will work most of the time ... and sometime trains will face each other --> deadlock
21:18:50  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> but how can it lead to deadlock if the trains aren't releasing their space?
21:19:45  <Stablean> <V453000> byez
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21:20:09  <Stablean> <Anson> if you have several separate tracks and only one train on each, you get no problems ... but who wants to have 5 tracks for 5 trains ?
21:21:35  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> how about someone who wants to limit it to 1 train in each segment of the track, except maybe for 2 way stations
21:21:41  <Stablean> <Anson> i have one doubletrack (one for each direction) with a few sidelines for stations, for 100 trains ... i would hate to build 100 tracks for them :-)
21:23:47  <Stablean> <Anson> if you have longer distances, you need more than one train for the same connection ... i assume that you don't want to build in such small places with tracks of 10-20 length all the time ?
21:27:09  <Stablean> <Anson> the train is stuck now ... it didn't turn around in the station and went back to Slunfingbridge because of a one way signal on that track
21:28:04  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see, thanks
21:30:14  <Stablean> <Anson> on twoway signals, a train selects the best route first, but when that signal is red, it takes the other
21:31:20  <Stablean> <Anson> that can be useful when used properly, but can confuse trains when used improperly ...
21:31:48  <Stablean> <Anson> as i said above : when you have only one track and one train, you need no signals
21:35:07  <Stablean> <Anson> you still have a oneway signal on the single track
21:35:45  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there
21:36:56  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the train won't go past the corner for some reason
21:37:10  <Stablean> <Anson> read the sign ... it is not electrified
21:38:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> wow, to I have wet trains now
21:38:31  <Stablean> <Anson> replaced the old weak trains 1 or 2 hours ago :-)
21:39:17  <Stablean> <Anson> wet has more capacity than the old trains, 33% less speed, but much more power and better acceleration
21:39:48  <Stablean> <Anson> and speed is not important for those short routes
21:39:59  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah
21:40:13  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> not that the routes are well designed for it
21:40:20  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> for speed
21:40:44  <Stablean> <Anson> also no big problem : wet is slow (80 kph) and thus needs no big curves#
21:41:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah
21:41:29  <Stablean> <Anson> @@(clcalc maglev 80)
21:41:30  <Webster> Stablean: Required CL for maglev at 80km/h is 1 (0 half tiles) or TL
21:41:58  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> @@ccalc maglev 200
21:42:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> @@(ccalc maglev 200)
21:42:22  <Stablean> <Anson> @@(clcalc maglev 200)
21:42:23  <Webster> Stablean: Required CL for maglev at 200km/h is 2 (2 half tiles) or TL
21:42:41  <bug_sniper> @@(clcalc maglev 400)
21:42:45  <bug_sniper> @(clcalc maglev 400)
21:43:12  <bug_sniper> <Anson> @@(clcalc maglev 300)
21:43:12  <Webster> bug_sniper: Required CL for maglev at 300km/h is 3 (4 half tiles) or TL
21:43:27  <bug_sniper> > @@(clcalc maglev 400)
21:43:27  <Webster> bug_sniper: Required CL for maglev at 400km/h is 5 (8 half tiles) or TL
21:43:34  <bug_sniper> > @@(clcalc maglev 700)
21:43:35  <Webster> bug_sniper: Required CL for maglev at 700km/h is 7 (13 half tiles) or TL
21:43:47  <bug_sniper> ok, now that's absurd
21:44:06  <Stablean> <Anson> be careful with answers of 7 : the clcalc truncates everything at 7 :-)
21:44:32  <Stablean> <Anson> @@(clcalc maglev 7)
21:44:32  <Webster> Stablean: A maglev Curve Length of 7 (capped at 13 half tiles) gives a speed of 464km/h or 290mph
21:45:01  <Stablean> <Anson> everything above 464 will result in the (false) answer 7
21:46:59  <Stablean> <Anson> back to your farm: you loaded grain once at Tunston Heights ... thus the farm will now forever deliver some small part of grain to that station
21:47:29  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> 70-75%
21:47:56  <Stablean> <Anson> there is nothing you can do about it ... except to delete that station, build a new one, and adjust all orders to use that new one
21:48:26  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> what is your idea?
21:49:00  <Stablean> <Anson> either ignore it and a bit of grain will be wasted ... or delete the station and build a new one
21:50:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm not sure what that would do. Isn't my network over there at least functional?
21:50:08  <Stablean> <Anson> with larger production, you won't transport everything anyway ... but i personally hate when there is cargo that shouldn't be there
21:50:51  <Stablean> <Anson> you CAN leave it just as it is ... your decision
21:53:25  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> like that?
21:55:23  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'll get something to eat. If you want to, you can fix it up how you'd like while I'm gone
21:55:25  <Stablean> <Anson> yes
21:55:52  <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, yes to both ... it was correct, and i can change it :-)
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22:20:00  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so the production rate is better
22:20:22  <Stablean> <Anson> went ip from 60 or 70 to 108 ... and from 6 to 30
22:20:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I see
22:21:07  <Stablean> <Anson> production is completely random, but favors good service :-)
22:21:37  <Stablean> <Anson> even with best service, mines can vanish, but VERY rarely
22:21:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> my transport rating with the city is now appalling
22:21:56  <Stablean> <Anson> even with worst service, mines can increase, but very rarely
22:22:40  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I can probably even bribe the city and fail and have a better rating
22:22:47  <Stablean> <Anson> two towns, two ratings
22:23:02  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> slumfingbridge
22:23:05  <Stablean> <Anson> trhe farm is Tunston --> very good
22:23:23  <Stablean> <Anson> since the stations are serviced very well
22:24:01  <Stablean> <Anson> at the other town you had worked a lot and the station there only gets goods occasionally --> it will take a while for the value to improve
22:24:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeahy
22:24:27  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> can I bribe them?
22:24:49  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> you should bribe
22:24:54  <BoXcAr_MeEcH> bribe always
22:25:06  <Stablean> <Anson> you can try .... but it costs a lot and you sometimes will be detected ... tghen you are at the lowest possible rating
22:25:24  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> lower than what I am already at?
22:25:30  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'm already appalling
22:25:40  <Stablean> <Anson> better to build lots of trees and have a working station ... then wait
22:26:03  <Stablean> <Anson> appaling is from worst to a little better than worst :-)
22:27:05  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> did you just bribe  them?
22:27:07  <Stablean> <Anson> now very poor
22:27:18  <Stablean> <Anson> no ... i planted lots of trees
22:27:24  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I  see
22:27:34  <Stablean> <Anson> you can drag a rectangle and place lots of trees very fast
22:28:56  <Stablean> <Anson> now good :-)
22:29:27  <Stablean> <Anson> but watch out: there are lots of tzrees now, and when you put down new tracks and stations, you delete some, and thus your rating drops again
22:29:57  <Stablean> <Anson> thus first place the station if you want to ... and afterwards place rails etc which can always be done, also with bad rating
22:32:43  <Stablean> <Anson> do you want to go to that factory ?
22:32:53  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yes
22:33:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the hills are in the way though
22:38:24  <Stablean> <Anson> long distance = double track = one to go there, one to come back :-)
22:38:51  <Stablean> <Anson> thus you need a connection like the primitive X
22:39:09  <Stablean> <Anson> and also at least one signal behind bridges to reduce the signal gap
22:39:11  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> or we can reus that goods stations
22:40:09  <Stablean> <Anson> before you build under the signs, you should read them and then delete what is no longer needed
22:42:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> not sure why you're connecting them that way
22:46:39  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> the grain train is going to the copper mine
22:47:17  <Stablean> <Anson> copper mine ? whwre ?
22:47:51  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> it was
22:48:01  <Stablean> <Anson> how would you connect them ? use one rail for grain and the other for livestock ?
22:48:16  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> that was my original plan
22:48:34  <Stablean> <Anson> then y train would have to go all the way back and forth before the next can go to the factory
22:48:44  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> look at the copper mine now
22:48:50  <Stablean> <Anson> with better production, the second train will wait a long time ...
22:49:01  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> oh, that's a factory not a mine
22:49:40  <Stablean> <Anson> where is a copper mine ?
22:50:14  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I thought I saw a copper mine donw there, but it was just a factory
22:50:24  <Stablean> <Anson> you mean Prinnford Woods ? that is a drop for another factory
22:55:42  <Stablean> <Anson> now the goods are taken from the new factory too
22:58:20  <Stablean> <Anson> and you should delete the unused old stations at the factory, so that the town rating doesn't drop because of three unused stations
22:59:12  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, I'll get to that later
23:01:34  <Stablean> <Anson> the rating is already appaling ... over time it will become better when the stations are gone
23:01:56  <Stablean> <Anson> takes 10 seconds to do :-)
23:02:02  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> which stations?
23:02:16  <Stablean> <Anson> the unused stations at the old factory
23:03:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> they won't let me built it back
23:03:16  <Stablean> <Anson> done
23:03:30  <Stablean> <Anson> the rating is appaling
23:03:44  <Stablean> <Anson> but why would you build a station again ?
23:04:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> maybe I wasn't sure what was going on
23:04:45  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I wish the game would let me sell back my bridges
23:05:12  <Stablean> <Anson> you wanted to use another factory ... thus needed a new drop and goods pickup, and the old drops and pickup could be deleted
23:06:56  <Stablean> <Anson> i don't know what else you do ... but did you watch the goods train ?
23:07:10  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> not sure
23:07:36  <Stablean> <Anson> since it is a longer distance now, i added a second goods train ...
23:08:06  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I think I don't like the whole idea of using this factory as opposed to the old onw
23:08:17  <Stablean> <Anson> sometimes, bioth goods trains are on their way, and i just saw one of them waiting for the other since part of the route is still one rail only
23:08:31  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> because the goods aren't going to the old town
23:08:37  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> or any town
23:08:47  <Stablean> <Anson> why not ?
23:09:09  <Stablean> <Anson> Slunfingbridge still accepts goods
23:09:15  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah
23:09:19  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, hope this works
23:10:17  <Stablean> <Anson> it already worked .... but when it works too well, both goods trains are on their way ... might use a third :-)
23:10:55  <Stablean> <Anson> and/or the track to the goods drop needs to be doubled, to avoid that goods trains need to wait for the other goods train to return from the drop
23:11:05  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I was actually trying to connect a far away copper mine. Did you see it?
23:12:03  <Stablean> <Anson> no ... i was still looking at what we had done, and had changed the goods train to use the new factory too ... it would make no sense to produce goods there and not get them
23:12:33  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> ok, so where should the copper go?
23:16:47  <Stablean> <Anson> don't know where the factory is, but we have a factory already with a goods connection
23:17:05  <Stablean> <Anson> * where the copper is ...
23:17:51  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> there, at the sign
23:21:37  <Stablean> <Anson> who is the grey player with the strange company name "--" ?
23:22:39  <Stablean> <Anson> building something small at the cost opposite your tiny island might have been ok, but if you now build on his island, all across the isand ... ?
23:23:10  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, guess it may have been a mistake
23:23:52  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> yeah, the tunnel was convenient but extremely expensive
23:25:47  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> well, I'm getting bored of this game and all these trains
23:25:49  <Stablean> <Anson> and what are all those tracks across the island ? most are dead ends, or end up at several different factories ?!
23:26:09  <Stablean> <bug_sniper> I'll be going now
23:26:19  <Stablean> *** bug_sniper has left the game (leaving)
23:26:23  <bug_sniper> see you later
23:26:29  <Stablean> <Anson> CU
23:26:45  <Stablean> <Anson> i will clean up what you built (dead ends, etc )
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23:55:36  <bug_sniper> tell me when there's a new map

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