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00:04:51 <Sylf> I don't see a problem with that for now. 00:05:25 <Sylf> People want to be stupid in general, so there you go. 00:06:36 <Stablean> <Anson> there were an anonymous player and some other (to me unknown) username who said "companies full" and left ... didn't know that that was intended by you 00:54:51 *** bug_sniper_ has joined #openttdcoop.stable 00:58:14 *** bug_sniper has quit IRC 01:06:39 *** bug_sniper_ has quit IRC 01:41:42 *** bug_sniper has joined #openttdcoop.stable 01:41:43 <Stablean> *** Diablo joined the game 01:42:04 <Stablean> *** Diablo has joined company #3 01:56:49 *** bug_sniper has quit IRC 02:12:00 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (processing map took too long) 02:12:00 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (connection lost) 02:12:29 <Stablean> *** Big Meech joined the game 02:12:42 <Stablean> <Big Meech> re-hi 02:13:04 <Stablean> <Diablo> helo 02:46:10 <Stablean> <Anson> hallo 02:47:25 <Stablean> <Anson> i tried a drop station that i had seen on the wiki, slightly modiied from 2 to 3 eails :-) ... but something is wrong ... 02:47:39 <Stablean> <Big Meech> where 02:47:42 <Stablean> <Big Meech> >? 02:48:04 <Stablean> <Anson> Ballanced_Pre-Signal_Bypass_entry 02:48:54 <Stablean> <Big Meech> wrong signal? 02:49:25 <Stablean> <Big Meech> wrong train length? 02:49:44 <Stablean> <Anson> it SHOULD allow trains to enter when a direct connection is not free, but another further down the road ... 02:49:50 <Stablean> <Big Meech> 2-way signal? 02:50:20 <Stablean> <Anson> probably the next segment is still red, but the bypass already allows green and thus the train takes the wrong route 02:51:08 <Stablean> <Anson> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/7/74/Ballenced_Pre-signal_Bypass_Entry.png 02:52:22 <Stablean> <Big Meech> I think I see the problem 02:52:49 <Stablean> <Anson> yes ? 02:53:11 <Stablean> <Big Meech> maybe not, sorry 02:53:18 <Stablean> <Big Meech> where's the wiki link? 02:54:29 <Stablean> <Big Meech> I thin kyour 2 ways need to be 1-way 02:55:32 <Stablean> <Big Meech> hellO? 02:56:00 <Stablean> <Anson> any free out should trigger it, thus signal in one direction ... and the train needs to get that signal, thus signal inb the other direction too --> twoway ... 02:56:18 <Stablean> <Anson> the picture is a bit difficult to see 02:56:32 <Stablean> <Big Meech> you're also using PBS and the eample is all presignals 02:56:46 <Stablean> *** Diablo has left the game (leaving) 02:57:02 <Stablean> <Anson> btw: i had done it already and got no such problem, when the station was 6 pairs of platforms, for a double ML 02:57:24 <Stablean> <Anson> now i wanted to test a triple ML version, and failed 02:57:27 <Stablean> <Big Meech> maybe it doesnt work with stations that are 3 each, only 3 02:57:30 <Stablean> <Big Meech> I mean only 2 02:57:56 <Stablean> <Anson> where ? directly in front of the station ? 02:58:06 <Stablean> <Anson> needed to do that for space reasons 02:58:28 <Stablean> <Big Meech> the example only has 2 stations tiles per split 03:03:15 <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game 03:03:44 <Stablean> <Anson> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Ballenced_Pre-signal_Bypass_Entry.png 03:03:54 <Stablean> <Sylf> don't use pre signal bypass 03:04:12 <Stablean> <Sylf> that is an outdated, oversized construct 03:04:15 <Stablean> <Anson> Sylf : it is not fail safe ? 03:04:49 <Stablean> <Sylf> use two-way signal like how you use them for overflows 03:05:15 <Stablean> <Sylf> it does the exact same intended job, does it much better, and it's much smaller. 03:06:09 <Stablean> <Sylf> also, if you have 3 incoming lines, it doesn't make sense to only have 2 outgoing lines 03:07:13 <Stablean> <Sylf> and FYI, with the slow unloading speed of chameleon trains, you will need quite a few platforms 03:07:19 <Stablean> <Anson> i had a double ML and was about to expand it to triple ... started with the station and the ML towards the station, to see whether it works 03:07:57 <Stablean> <Sylf> also, you don't need two sided exit signals with PSB 03:08:11 <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, yes ... it would be 8 platforms or something per rail, thus 16 for double and 24 for triple :-) 03:08:17 <Stablean> <Sylf> wait... that PSB construct doesn't look right 03:09:20 <Stablean> <Anson> which PBS construct ? directly at the entrance to the station ? 03:10:03 <Stablean> <Sylf> well 03:10:26 <Stablean> <Sylf> it just will work the best if you use something other than PSB 03:10:46 <Stablean> <Sylf> It's a fancy system that really isn't the best. 03:11:12 <Stablean> <Anson> at the sign "noPBS?" ? 03:11:26 <Stablean> <Sylf> what's wrong with that spot? 03:11:49 <Stablean> <Anson> you just said to not use PBS ... was that for this location ? 03:11:59 <Stablean> <Sylf> PSB != PBS 03:12:15 <Stablean> <Sylf> PSB = Pre Singal Bypass 03:12:23 <Stablean> <Sylf> PBS = Path Based Signal 03:12:37 <Stablean> <Anson> SFB :-) ... that is our local TV station :-) 03:13:31 <Stablean> <Anson> it also takes a lot of space ... not the best, but i wanted to test it since i had seen it on the junctionary 03:14:53 <Stablean> <Anson> is there something that you would recommend for the drop station ? 03:15:01 <Stablean> <Anson> and which trains would be better ? 03:15:24 <Stablean> <Sylf> there's no true better or best trains 03:15:32 <Stablean> <Sylf> you can make many different things 03:16:14 <Stablean> <Sylf> you're limiting yourself to 12-tile wide space for you station. 03:16:32 <Stablean> <Sylf> You can do a lot more within 12x12 space. 03:16:50 <Stablean> <Sylf> Or you can use waypoint to work around the station spread limit 03:17:20 <Stablean> <Anson> or simply use two drop stations, one for grain and one for the pigs :-) 03:17:38 <Stablean> <Sylf> Or you can use some other trains that unloads faster, such as standard monorail or maglev. You can do your own experiment to see what works the best for what you want to accomplish 03:18:36 <Stablean> <Anson> testing different trains would have been next ... but i asked you since you are here anyhow, and i need to leave very soon 03:20:22 <Stablean> <Sylf> also, if you're using TL2, within 12x12 space, you can at least cram in 40 usable platforms 03:20:53 *** bug_sniper has joined #openttdcoop.stable 03:21:04 <Stablean> <Sylf> It may block the space for pick up trains, so the practical limit may be lower 03:22:31 <Stablean> <Anson> 3 rows of 12 = 36 ... accessing 12 from left, 12 from right, and squeezing the other 12 in the remaining 6x12 area ... very tight fit, and a big mess with the entry and exit :-) 03:23:21 <Stablean> *** Sylf has joined company #9 03:24:46 <Stablean> <Sylf> See Kefingford Woods 03:25:52 <Stablean> <Sylf> Use tunnels, and you can have a few more platforms in the middle 03:26:38 <Stablean> <Anson> "why not use tunnels to the center too" .... was the first thing that came to my mind when seeing this ... but i didn't dare to say that loud .-) 03:28:30 <Stablean> <Sylf> also, with that kind of construct, you will probably want your industry in the middle 03:28:36 <Stablean> <Anson> easy 48 platforms ... or maybe with some efford even 56 :-) 03:28:47 <Stablean> <Sylf> so the actual usable tiles left in the middle will be limited 03:29:45 <Stablean> <Sylf> yeah, that's possible too 03:30:11 <Stablean> <Sylf> but with the giant construct you will need in front of the platforms will mean reaching the middle will not be very effective 03:30:37 <Stablean> <Sylf> having the platforms accessible from all 4 sides is already pushing the usable limit 03:31:11 <Stablean> <Anson> hehe, would be a task for homework :-) 03:31:13 <Stablean> <Sylf> anyway, my point is, not all of your platforms need to be facing the same direction 03:31:52 <Stablean> <Big Meech> woo! 03:31:54 <Stablean> <Sylf> even some simple construct like that gives you 20 platforms 03:32:56 <Stablean> <Sylf> systematic design like that is kinda boring though 03:33:26 <Stablean> <Anson> anyway ... with the current trains, that would be barely enough for a double ML 03:33:49 <Stablean> <Anson> but might be really nice with faster loading for a quad ML :-) 03:34:19 <Stablean> <Sylf> use terminus style station, and you will have far more usable platforms 03:34:33 <Stablean> <Sylf> ro-ro is not always the answer. 03:37:28 <Stablean> <Sylf> the oil refinery area in Public Server Game 193 is one of my favorites, showing a very organic design, containing both ro-ro and terminus, if I remember right 03:37:34 <Stablean> <Anson> i recently did something similar to Kefingford for a TL1 chami network :-) 03:38:00 <Stablean> <Sylf> I hate that design. 03:38:27 <Stablean> <Sylf> the signal gap from the PBS to the last platform is too big 03:38:34 <Stablean> <Anson> most of all, it uses PBS, and that stopped filling the stations some time ... only accessed the first 8 or so 03:38:36 <Stablean> <Sylf> same goes true foc the exit 03:39:43 <Stablean> <Anson> the gap was not too bad when i grouped the exits ... the unloading time took care of it 03:40:43 <Stablean> <Sylf> that's one way to build without any signal gaps 03:41:10 <Stablean> <Sylf> and it works better than pre signal bypass 03:41:40 <Stablean> <Sylf> the problem with that is you can't fit very many platforms within 12x12 space 03:41:54 <Stablean> <Anson> i tried that too ... but the least bit of disturbance, and it is no longer synced, thus causeing stop&go :-( 03:42:12 <Stablean> <Sylf> what synch? 03:42:18 <Stablean> <Sylf> there's no synch in that design 03:42:32 <Stablean> <Anson> how do you do the exits ? 03:42:43 <Stablean> <Sylf> separately. 03:43:01 <Stablean> <Sylf> also, use the braking space in front of the platforms 03:43:51 <Stablean> <Sylf> hmmmm 03:44:09 <Stablean> <Sylf> so the power stations in this industry set do not die 03:44:23 <Stablean> <Sylf> bummer. 03:47:51 <Stablean> <Anson> btw: i like the compact design of all my farm pickup stations, besides the one fact that makes them a NONO in real networks : visible depots 03:48:39 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (general timeout) 03:48:39 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (connection lost) 03:49:09 <Stablean> <Sylf> I'm still against having overflows at primaries 03:49:27 <Stablean> *** Big Meech joined the game 03:50:31 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (general timeout) 03:50:31 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (connection lost) 03:50:31 <Stablean> <Anson> always depends ... when using refitting, you either need a large waiting bay or overflow depots at primaries ... even more so when playing here when nobody takes care of the network while you are afk 03:51:07 <Stablean> <Sylf> if you use conditional order, it may make some sense. 03:51:29 <Stablean> <Sylf> Or if the trains go to many different drops. 03:51:31 <Stablean> *** Big Meech joined the game 03:51:48 <Stablean> <Sylf> i.e. any style of orders where there may be a wave of trains. 03:51:58 <Stablean> <Sylf> Still, at primaries, they will dissipate eventually. 03:52:08 <Stablean> <Sylf> Secondaries don't work itself out. 03:52:16 <Stablean> <Sylf> So that's where it really makes sense to have overflows. 03:52:38 <Stablean> <Sylf> a temporary jam at the end of sidelines? who cares? 03:52:38 <Stablean> <Anson> i like the overflows to take care of growing or shrinking production while i am not online 03:57:56 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (general timeout) 03:57:56 <Stablean> *** Big Meech has left the game (connection lost) 03:58:05 <BiG_MeEcH> I dont know why im lagging so bad tonight 03:58:09 <BiG_MeEcH> Sorry =\ 04:04:25 <Stablean> <Anson> total around 800 trains now ... 04:09:32 <Stablean> <Anson> i need to leave now ... thanks for all the hints, Sylf ... and if we don't have a new map until tonight or tomorrow, i might rebuild the ML to triple or quad and add a nice drop station for it :-) 04:16:54 <Stablean> *** Sylf has joined spectators 06:00:14 <Stablean> *** Diablo joined the game 06:01:38 <Stablean> *** Diablo has joined company #3 06:13:19 <Stablean> *** Sylf has left the game (general timeout) 06:13:19 <Stablean> *** Sylf has left the game (connection lost) 06:29:16 <Stablean> *** Anson has joined spectators 06:30:13 <Stablean> *** Diablo has left the game (leaving) 06:30:13 <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players) 08:07:18 *** AnsonMobile has quit IRC 08:08:12 *** Anson has joined #openttdcoop.stable 08:18:39 *** bug_sniper has quit IRC 08:34:11 <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players) 08:34:12 <Stablean> *** Diablo joined the game 08:34:15 <Stablean> *** Diablo has left the game (leaving) 09:04:56 *** bug_sniper has joined #openttdcoop.stable 09:45:49 <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players) 09:45:49 <Stablean> *** omer584 joined the game 09:46:27 <Stablean> *** omer584 has left the game (leaving) 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clients connected to the server 15:08:09 <BiG_MeEcH_> !date 15:08:09 <Stablean> BiG_MeEcH_: 4 Nov 2346 15:25:46 <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players) 15:25:49 <Stablean> *** RTM joined the game 15:26:22 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.stable 15:26:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM 15:26:48 <Stablean> *** RTM has left the game (leaving) 16:35:15 <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players) 16:35:16 <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 16:35:18 <Stablean> *** Troy McClure joined the game 17:10:12 <Stablean> *** Dnz-Ali joined the game 17:10:16 <Stablean> <Dnz-Ali> hi 17:10:18 <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi 17:19:56 <Stablean> *** Dnz-Ali has left the game (leaving) 17:45:43 <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has joined spectators 17:45:43 <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players) 17:47:15 <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has joined company #2 17:47:15 <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 17:49:44 <Stablean> *** thepower12n joined the game 17:54:31 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<Stablean> *** Troy McClure joined the game 20:04:11 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 20:05:09 *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop.stable 20:05:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Maraxus 20:10:37 <Stablean> *** RTM joined the game 20:11:01 <Stablean> <RTM> hi all 20:11:04 <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi 20:11:06 <Stablean> *** RTM has left the game (general timeout) 20:11:06 <Stablean> *** RTM has left the game (connection lost) 20:42:49 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 20:54:16 *** Jam35 has quit IRC 21:19:09 <Stablean> <thepower12n> what you gonna do ;p? 21:19:51 <Stablean> <Troy McClure> reroute some trains to the northern drop 21:42:04 *** Anson has joined #openttdcoop.stable 21:58:11 <Stablean> *** thepower12n has left the game (general timeout) 21:58:11 <Stablean> *** thepower12n has left the game (connection lost) 22:06:51 <Stablean> *** Troy McClure has joined spectators 22:06:51 <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players) 22:06:53 <Stablean> *** Cameron has left the game (general timeout) 22:06:53 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