Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 27th September 2013:
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00:02:42  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
00:02:44  <Stablean> *** Big Meech joined the game
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03:51:44  <Stablean> <Big Meech> wooooooooooo!~
03:52:11  <Stablean> <Sylf> joo
03:52:25  <Stablean> <Big Meech> want to start a company, Boss?
03:52:36  <Stablean> <Sylf> no
03:52:39  <Stablean> <Sylf> you go ahead
03:52:45  <Stablean> <Big Meech> wooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOO!
03:52:55  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo ... you didn't play this map yet ?
03:54:01  <Stablean> *** Big Meech has started a new company (#7)
04:00:40  <Stablean> <Sylf> no
04:09:19  <Stablean> *** Sylf has left the game (leaving)
04:09:37  <Sylf> that's about all the time I have for tonight
04:09:43  <Stablean> <Big Meech> okie doke
04:43:07  <Stablean> *** Djanxy joined the game
04:43:18  <Stablean> <Djanxy> mornin
04:46:25  <Stablean> <Big Meech> yoDJ!
04:46:43  <Stablean> <Djanxy> hmm, why did troy build a mini line at purple ?
04:47:26  <Stablean> <Big Meech> dunno maybe purple didnt build it?
04:47:32  <Stablean> <Big Meech> and its like a dead giveaway?
04:47:55  <Stablean> <Djanxy> perhaps
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09:39:26  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, anonymous player
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15:40:11  <Stablean> *** thepower12n joined the game
15:40:32  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, power
15:40:54  <Stablean> <thepower12n> hi
15:40:57  <Stablean> <Anson> i just had a look at your net and have some hints for you ... see signs :-)
15:42:07  <Stablean> <Anson> your versions mostly work, but can be improved a bit ...
15:42:21  <Stablean> <thepower12n> yea i see
15:43:01  <Stablean> <Anson> watch all your stations when two trains are stopped in the platforms, and a third arrives ...
15:44:03  <Stablean> <thepower12n> afk a sec
16:00:26  <Stablean> <thepower12n> back
16:00:45  <Stablean> <Anson> wb
16:01:07  <Stablean> <Anson> do you see the train waiting at the 2way signal in front of the depot ?
16:01:57  <Stablean> <Anson> this often happens when using a depot with a signal in front of it ... try to avoid it, and it is not needed anyway
16:02:48  <Stablean> *** thepower12n has joined company #5
16:04:08  <Stablean> <Anson> what does your train #10 do ???
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16:04:43  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Maraxus
16:05:18  <Stablean> <Anson> lost trains behave similar ... either go back and forth, or ghet stuck in front of a used platform ...
16:05:48  <Stablean> <thepower12n> i gonna delete my comp
16:05:54  <Stablean> <thepower12n> he can't reach the drop;p
16:05:57  <Stablean> <thepower12n> so he is lost
16:08:31  <Stablean> <Anson> your stations are almost perfect ... but a tiny change is needed for most of them
16:09:35  <Stablean> <Anson> you see how my version of the overflow works ?
16:09:46  <Stablean> <thepower12n> yea
16:10:01  <Stablean> <thepower12n> need to remove entry and combo signals
16:10:05  <Stablean> <Anson> no path from the reverser to the exit, thus trains are forced into the depot
16:10:43  <Stablean> <Anson> on most of your stations, trains will leave the reverser and exit the station completely, sometimes even getting lost ...
16:12:01  <Stablean> <Anson> and if a lost train (by some other mistake or replace etc) ends up in a depot, it won't be able to leave, but go back and forth between reverser and depot, or even try entering a used platform and then be stuck completely
16:12:55  <Stablean> <Anson> that's why there should be an emergency exit for lost trains, from the depot to the exit ... normal trains will leave the depot only when a platform is empty and enter it, thus no problem with them
16:14:45  <Stablean> <Anson> ok, did you read the signs ? can/should i remove everything ?
16:15:00  <Stablean> *** thepower12n has joined spectators
16:15:37  <Stablean> <thepower12n> you can remove them;p
16:16:47  <Stablean> <Anson> did you also see the hint for the drop station ?
16:18:57  <Stablean> <Anson> by splitting 2:2 first and then again 1:1, the path may become shorter, and at least the signal gap is better ... trains can alternate the two pathes right from the beginnming, and don't wait when only the last two platforms are free
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16:29:13  <Stablean> <Anson> hallo, troy
16:29:19  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi Anson
16:29:29  <Stablean> <Anson> whyt do you mean by "blame purple #13" ?
16:30:17  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you see that rail?
16:30:20  <Stablean> *** Jam35 joined the game
16:30:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> it should be annoying
16:30:45  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but train #13 was blocking  the entrance to delivering trains
16:30:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> so the whole network jammed
16:31:33  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> so it's #13s fault that I had to put up a train over there to provide minimum delivery
16:31:35  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> so as not to get stuk
16:31:38  <Stablean> <Anson> yes, looks like an attempt at a conditional overflow, but failed because of missing reverser and depot
16:32:12  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> it actually looks like shit altogether
16:32:22  <Stablean> <Anson> tzrain #14 is waiting there now and trying to full load CANDY
16:32:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, but the sweet factory already disappeared
16:33:48  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
16:33:49  <Stablean> <V453000> moooo
16:33:51  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi V
16:34:29  <Stablean> <Anson> but drek will not go bankrupt soon, thus no problem for him, unless other resources die too because they are not serviced
16:37:00  <Stablean> <Anson> i think, purplr can start over ... i see almost no stations which still get resources
16:37:34  <Stablean> <V453000> I dont think TL3 maglev is effective at all Troy :)
16:37:48  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> why not?
16:37:54  <Stablean> <V453000> why yes really
16:37:57  <Stablean> <V453000> low capacity, meh acceleration
16:38:23  <Stablean> <V453000> maglev is generally only useful if you can use the shortened CLs
16:38:30  <Stablean> <Anson> i use TL3, and when switching from mono to maglev, income dropped below 50%
16:38:53  <Stablean> <V453000> income doesnt define how good trains are what so ever
16:39:08  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> nope, but they give an indication
16:39:14  <Stablean> <V453000> not at all
16:39:36  <Stablean> <V453000> especially as speed completely changes the values
16:39:50  <Stablean> <Anson> if trains are faster but give much less income, there is probably something wrong with the selection :-)
16:40:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> $ is dependent on running costs, distance, and cargo delivered at one time and speed
16:40:16  <Stablean> <V453000> running costs are irrelevant
16:40:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> since you are changing 2 parameters (speed and cargo)
16:40:25  <Stablean> <V453000> distance is kept if you autoreplace
16:40:27  <Stablean> <V453000> yes
16:40:42  <Stablean> *** Jam35 has joined company #4
16:40:44  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> and the other one are the same or negligible
16:40:46  <Stablean> <Jam35> heloo
16:40:52  <Stablean> <V453000> how your network works is defined by amount of moved cargo
16:40:54  <Stablean> <V453000> not by income
16:40:56  <Stablean> <V453000> hi Jam35
16:41:10  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> its moved cargo over time
16:41:14  <Stablean> <V453000> obviously amount of moved cargo increases income, but is skewed by speed
16:41:28  <Stablean> <V453000> what isnt over time really
16:41:42  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> and since the 2 changed parameters you are changing  in income happen to be the same in this case
16:41:48  <Stablean> <Anson> on this map, running costs and maintenance are almost 0 ... thus the bad income is caused by lower capacity and MUCH worse acceleration, which in turn causes lots of jams
16:41:58  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> they are a good indication
16:42:06  <Stablean> <Anson> speaking of jam ... hallo, jam :-)
16:42:44  <Stablean> <V453000> still, if fast train network jams it can still make equal profit as slow network without jamming
16:42:54  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
16:42:57  <Stablean> <V453000> so simply by looking if it jams is a lot better indicator than any numbers
16:43:04  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> so that's why it's an indication, but not the same
16:43:26  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> and what if both don't jam?
16:43:29  <Stablean> <V453000> k enjoy your worthless indication, im done
16:43:47  <Stablean> <V453000> then obviously fast ones get more money for same amount of cargo
16:43:49  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> I agree, seeing jams are a good indication
16:43:56  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> of bad network
16:44:34  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but what if network density (and other characteristics) just isn't enough to cause jams in an old and a new case?
16:45:20  <Stablean> <V453000> wtf?
16:45:34  <Stablean> <V453000> then obviously faster network gets more profit? which doesnt indicate shit?
16:47:00  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> which indicates that you can haul the same amount of  cargo under the same network conditions, but at a higher speed
16:47:32  <Stablean> <V453000> sure enjoy your indications I dont have time for that
16:47:38  <Stablean> <V453000> I will just look at my network if it jams or not, done
16:47:41  <Stablean> <Anson> the main difference between looking for jams and looking at the profit is that you need to check the whole network for james, but can see a simple number for profit ... thus the profit is the first and easiest indicator, and when it drops, i look for jams to see the real causes
16:47:43  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yeah right back at ya
16:48:05  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> looking is apparently wholly unbiased and objective
16:48:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> right
16:48:17  <Stablean> <V453000> LOL
16:48:35  <Stablean> <V453000> jams too much Y/N, what is biased
16:49:42  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yeah, screw objective indicators altogether...
16:49:56  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> the reason is not that they measure accurately what you want to know
16:50:04  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but that they do it objectively
16:50:15  <Stablean> <V453000> I seriously dont get your problem
16:50:29  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> I seriously don't get yours
16:50:40  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> YOU are saying that money isn't a good indicator at all
16:50:46  <Stablean> <V453000> which is true
16:50:56  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, and that's my problem
16:51:03  <Stablean> <V453000> oh, still
16:51:05  <Stablean> <V453000> k
16:51:09  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> your stubbornness to even go in on arguments
16:51:12  <Stablean> <Anson> example : i don't take the time to watch the whole map all the time ... but i just saw a big drop in the red companies income, and then i had a closer look and see that it is jammed
16:51:23  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> in fact you're saying: it's true, cause it is
16:52:25  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yeah, trains stopped
16:52:29  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> rebuild
16:52:31  <Stablean> <V453000> I gave you clear reasons multiple times - because train speed skews everything related to income
16:53:02  <Stablean> <V453000> amount transported cargo is a better indicator, as I already said
16:53:08  <Stablean> <V453000> but keep your profit indication, I dont care
16:53:18  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> lol you didn't say that
16:53:21  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> and that is a better indicator
16:53:39  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> a far better indicator than profit
16:53:50  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but you were talking about  looking for jams
16:54:02  <Stablean> <V453000> I said both.
16:55:28  <Stablean> <Anson> i don't rely on the transported display ... with bigger wagons, more cargo can be transported, even when there are jams, slow speed, etc ...
16:56:22  <Stablean> <V453000> which isnt true
16:56:36  <Stablean> <V453000> if your network managed to transport more, that is all you need
16:57:15  <Stablean> <Anson> of course, it would be best to check the whole map for jams, AND look at income indicators AND look at cargo transport indictator, AND .... but then i would need a few more sets of eyes and a much bigger screen
16:57:49  <Stablean> <V453000> strange that I am fine with 2 eyes and no number indicators
16:58:15  <Stablean> <Anson> when only transported amount would be important, SH*P trains would be better than mono or maglev ? :-)
16:58:54  <Stablean> <Anson> they have much better capacity, good acceleration, but are too slow
16:59:08  <Stablean> <V453000> then show me how do ships reach higher transported amount
16:59:10  <Stablean> <V453000> go ahead
16:59:34  <Stablean> <V453000> because they most likely will not
17:00:36  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> since income is a function of a number or things, you can interpret data from income and amount delivered: when units of cargo stay the same, but income drops, you obviously have a drop in average speed
17:00:38  <Stablean> <V453000> btw higher speeds can mean increase of station ratings by like 20% which could further skew any number graphs
17:00:42  <BiG_MeEcH> hi
17:00:54  <Stablean> <V453000> hi Meech
17:02:01  <BiG_MeEcH> !date
17:02:01  <Stablean> BiG_MeEcH: 12 May 2025
17:02:12  <Stablean> <V453000> and you really want to combine X graphs to indicate if your network is doing fine Troy?
17:02:14  <Stablean> <V453000> okay
17:02:32  <Stablean> <V453000> I would say train stats are equally useful indicator for that
17:02:50  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes
17:03:17  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but you need to know how everything in the statistics interact or be experienced with that
17:03:27  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> both of which apply to you
17:05:49  <Stablean> <V453000> conclusion, by your indication maglev is a good choice for TL3? :D
17:05:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> nope, didn't say that
17:06:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> looking at the situation, I'm not glad with it
17:06:15  <Stablean> <V453000> then go research more indications :)
17:06:29  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> yes, I'm looking at jams right now ;)
17:06:39  <Stablean> <V453000> good start :D
17:07:00  <BiG_MeEcH> Jam 35?
17:07:27  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> my situation both validates my and your point
17:07:41  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> profit is the same, units of cargo is the same
17:08:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> but that's not enough to conclude this is a good network
17:09:57  <Stablean> <V453000> CL1 > reversers with maglev :P
17:10:05  <Stablean> <V453000> they go through it just so quickly
17:10:27  <Stablean> <Jam35> Meech?
17:10:29  <Stablean> <Jam35> hi
17:10:59  <Stablean> <V453000> Meech went to kill himself he said
17:11:05  <Stablean> <Jam35> ah right
17:11:21  <Stablean> <V453000> I told him nuts is coming tonight, he couldnt take it
17:16:25  <Stablean> *** Revelation has started a new company (#5)
17:16:28  <Stablean> *** Revelation joined the game
17:16:31  <Stablean> <Revelation> Hi!
17:16:33  <Stablean> <Revelation> :D
17:16:33  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
17:16:47  <Stablean> <Jam35> hi
17:16:59  <Stablean> *** Revelation has left the game (leaving)
17:17:03  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> bye
17:17:09  <Stablean> <Jam35> right
17:17:52  <Stablean> <Anson> new nuts tonight, maybe at midnight ?
17:18:02  <Stablean> <Anson> would be a nice present for me :-)
17:18:14  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> what, is it your birthday?
17:18:24  <Stablean> <Anson> tomorrow
17:18:24  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you wants it for your birthday?
17:18:34  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> lets him have it
17:28:55  <Stablean> *** ismael joined the game
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17:45:01  <Stablean> <Jam35> plane :D
17:45:11  <Stablean> <ismael> bad ?
17:45:14  <Stablean> <Jam35> bb ismael :P
17:45:17  <Stablean> <Jam35> yes
17:45:27  <Stablean> <ismael> ships ?
17:45:29  <Stablean> <Jam35> running cost is sky high
17:45:35  <Stablean> <Jam35> (no pun intended)
17:45:42  <Stablean> <Jam35> ships also
17:45:48  <Stablean> <ismael> is ships good ?
17:45:48  <Stablean> <Jam35> ground it quick
17:47:08  <Stablean> <Anson> when you want ships, build SH*Ps instead :-)
17:47:34  <Stablean> <Jam35> *SHI*
17:47:54  <Stablean> <Jam35> troats is a better name
17:48:00  <V453000> FAKOF
17:48:03  <V453000> :)
17:48:17  <Stablean> <Jam35> brains?
17:48:53  <V453000> yay
17:48:55  <Stablean> <Jam35> brains run on brails
17:49:53  <Stablean> <Anson> i tried using them last night, but didn't think of the length (car removal). thus my network was soon jammed completely, and i only could think "SHI* happens" :-)
17:50:27  <Stablean> <Jam35> noob error :P
17:50:33  <Stablean> <Jam35> is still do that
17:50:35  <Stablean> <Jam35> *I
17:51:09  <Stablean> <Jam35> and it is a bitch :)
17:51:31  <Stablean> <Anson> and the second error, i often do : select a filter in the buy menu, buy a vehicle or wagon, and then start it ... wondering why it tries to load goods or whatever and not what i wanted
17:51:58  <Stablean> <Jam35> not done that
17:52:00  <Stablean> <Jam35> yet
17:52:06  <Stablean> <Jam35> forget refit though
17:52:09  <Stablean> <Anson> would really be nice when buying a vehicle would automatically refit it according to the filter that was used
17:52:11  <Stablean> <Jam35> frequently
17:53:01  <Stablean> <Jam35> 'they' would say: code it
17:54:07  <Stablean> <Anson> to avoid that problem, and to avoid similar problems when i copy trains, i added a refit order as first order .... (and added a "jump to #2" at the end, to not send them to the depot on normal use
17:55:14  <Stablean> <Jam35> I doubt i could be bothered with that
17:55:20  <Stablean> <Jam35> just remember
17:55:35  <Stablean> <Jam35> over-engineered solution maybe :)
17:55:37  <Stablean> <Anson> or even a "if maintenance = false jump to #2" ... that causes trains to use a specific depot and never get lost by ebtering routes with visible depots
17:59:29  <Stablean> <Anson> i like programming orders, lots of conditionals on my refitting trains, and even on Sbahn feeders and similar :-)
17:59:51  <Stablean> <Jam35> well fair enuf
18:00:05  <Stablean> *** Jam35 has joined company #4
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18:27:06  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> something the matter, V?
18:27:40  <Stablean> <V453000> setting up stats for new trains :)
18:28:07  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> okay
18:28:17  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> you're coming with a new game then tonight too?
18:28:27  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> or will that wait untill, say October 1st?
18:29:09  <Stablean> <V453000> idk
18:29:39  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> k
18:30:46  <BiG_MeEcH> hi! :D
18:30:57  <Stablean> <Troy McClure> hi
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18:45:04  <Stablean> <Jam35> hi
18:45:14  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> hi all
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19:32:14  <Stablean> <happy tran  sport> ok   bb
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19:32:23  <Stablean> <Jam35> cya
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20:03:25  <Stablean> *** Player has changed his/her name to olome
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20:51:29  <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players)
20:59:50  <V453000> !content
20:59:51  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Connection established
20:59:51  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Downloading 0 file(s) (0 bytes)
20:59:51  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Nothing to download
20:59:53  <V453000> !content
20:59:55  <Stablean> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
20:59:55  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Downloading 2 file(s) (1448360 bytes)
20:59:58  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2869
21:00:00  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2868
21:00:00  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] All 2 downloaded
21:00:00  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
21:00:02  <V453000> !content
21:00:04  <Stablean> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
21:00:04  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Downloading 4 file(s) (2387790 bytes)
21:00:04  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2881
21:00:04  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2880
21:00:05  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2884
21:00:05  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2883
21:00:06  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] All 4 downloaded
21:00:07  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
21:00:09  <V453000> !content
21:00:11  <Stablean> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
21:00:11  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Downloading 0 file(s) (0 bytes)
21:00:11  <Stablean> V453000: [Content] Nothing to download
21:00:16  <V453000> !restart
21:00:17  <Stablean> Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
21:01:01  <Stablean> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
21:01:01  <Stablean> Thank you for playing 1.3.2.
21:01:05  <Stablean> Server has exited
21:01:05  *** Stablean has quit IRC
21:01:27  *** Stablean has joined #openttdcoop.stable
21:01:27  <Stablean> Autopilot engaged
21:01:27  <Stablean> Loading savegame: '{#openttdcoop} Welcome Server ('
21:01:27  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Stablean
21:01:27  *** Webster changes topic to "#openttdcoop Welcome to OpenTTD Server | 1.3.2 | Admin channel (ask for op) | IF you prepare map, read | run !setdef after loading a new game |"
21:01:55  <Stablean> V450000000000, now you can execute !-commands ;-)
21:07:06  <V453000> !getsave
21:07:09  <Stablean> V453000: OK :-)
21:07:10  <V453000> !rcon cd 3
21:07:13  <V453000> !rcon load 2
21:07:15  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
21:07:25  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
21:07:27  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
21:07:32  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
21:07:41  <V453000> !auto
21:07:41  <Stablean> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
21:07:43  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:24:58  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:24:59  <Stablean> *** bon joined the game
21:26:22  <Stablean> <bon> nice that its at least FIR instead of ECS (but thats just a personal remark)
21:26:41  <V453000> hello
21:26:47  <V453000> you will probably never see ECS on this server :)
21:26:51  <Stablean> <bon> umm hi?
21:26:55  <Stablean> <bon> heh nice
21:27:06  <Stablean> <bon> I never liked some parts of ECS too much .. the steel mill as well
21:27:22  <Stablean> <bon> FIRS at least let you serve only one instead of both cargos without any penalty
21:27:40  <Stablean> <bon> anyway...I'm looking around trying to find a good place to start :)
21:27:59  <Stablean> <bon> you?
21:28:32  <V453000> probably wont play this game :)
21:28:40  <Stablean> <bon> blah? :P
21:29:11  <V453000> I drew a lot of new trains in this train set, rather tired :)
21:29:16  <Stablean> <bon> would you know what kind of non-vehicle cost ratio there are?
21:29:22  <Stablean> <bon> ohhh right you nutty nut! :)
21:29:34  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:29:34  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
21:29:46  <Stablean> <bon> mind you I kinda like the "ships" even although they are running on artifical water
21:30:08  <Stablean> <V453000> well then check out the ships in this version XD
21:30:23  <Stablean> <bon> 1940 is too early tho..or did you change it?
21:30:34  <Stablean> <bon> I thought the first one was like mid 50's
21:30:48  <Stablean> <V453000> only one way to find out :)
21:31:06  <Stablean> <bon> as soon as I find where to start .. I have no idea how much construction I can do :)
21:31:22  <Stablean> <V453000> as much as you can :)
21:31:32  <Stablean> <bon> wait...its super-cheap here?
21:31:55  <Stablean> <V453000> I dont know how I set up the costs
21:32:03  <Stablean> <V453000> I really dont :D loaded some old preset
21:32:14  <Stablean> <V453000> should be somewhat cheap
21:32:33  <Stablean> <bon> so I wouldn't bust 1M trying to build dual lines 400 tiles long? :)
21:33:20  <Stablean> <V453000> generally the rule here is stay in your own area and develop it :)
21:33:28  <Stablean> <V453000> so 400 lines long thing generally isnt likde :)
21:33:30  <Stablean> <V453000> liked
21:37:20  <Stablean> <bon> heh..bit hard to find certain industries now..still looking
21:37:27  <Stablean> <bon> at least that industry chain dialog thing helps
21:37:46  <Stablean> <V453000> starting with passengers before you get orientated is also an option :)
21:37:57  <Stablean> <bon> where do I find STONES?
21:37:59  <Stablean> <bon> :P
21:38:09  <Stablean> <bon> heh
21:38:48  <Stablean> <V453000> quarry
21:39:47  <Stablean> <bon> quick question as its been a while re FIRS..
21:40:14  <Stablean> <bon> for one with two outputs .. does it simply output both all the times or it "prefers" one if thats the only one being load?
21:41:20  <Stablean> <bon> ok I think I found an area I could do :)
21:43:22  <Stablean> <V453000> it outputs both
21:43:34  <Stablean> <bon> right..thanks
21:48:22  <Stablean> *** bon has started a new company (#2)
21:48:24  <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
21:49:04  <Stablean> <bon> heh actually there is something that looks like a tug boat with one log barge already
21:49:18  <Stablean> <bon> so I guess you did improve the NUTS ships recently
21:49:58  <Stablean> <bon> does seem a bit costly here...need quick rethink
21:50:04  <Stablean> <bon> yeah you're right maybe passengers
21:50:38  <Stablean> <bon> huh...the WET rails don't even cost much at all
21:51:29  <Stablean> <bon> maybe I'll be a sailing company heh?? :)
21:56:24  <Stablean> <V453000> costs are high if you terraform
21:56:28  <Stablean> <V453000> otherwise it should be cheap
21:57:02  <Stablean> <bon> heh I hate players that think they can blow out a mountain just because they want their dumb "perfect flat" rails even with 3000+hp locomotives on short train
21:57:04  <Stablean> <bon> :|
22:00:22  <Stablean> <bon> hope I remember my buoy directions right
22:00:36  <Stablean> <V453000> :)
22:02:02  <Stablean> <bon> ehh no extra barges yet. oh well :->
22:02:14  <Stablean> *** V453000 has started a new company (#1)
22:02:19  <Stablean> <V453000> OH
22:02:21  <Stablean> <V453000> missing wagons XD
22:02:25  <Stablean> <V453000> those come in 1950 then
22:02:35  <Stablean> <bon> I always can try do by with short capacity for now :)
22:02:54  <Stablean> <V453000> probably better choice to just get different engines for the moment XD
22:03:04  <Stablean> <bon> well this is just for fun so :)
22:03:27  <Stablean> <V453000> I will cheat the date
22:03:28  <Stablean> *** solo joined the game
22:03:29  <Stablean> <V453000> hang on
22:03:30  <Stablean> <solo> yo
22:03:31  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
22:04:23  <V453000> !getsave
22:04:26  <Stablean> V453000: OK :-)
22:04:31  <V453000> !rcon load 2
22:04:34  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
22:04:41  <Stablean> *** solo joined the game
22:04:42  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
22:04:45  <Stablean> *** bon joined the game
22:05:26  <V453000> !auto
22:05:27  <Stablean> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
22:05:28  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:05:42  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:05:42  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
22:05:44  <Stablean> <V453000> uhmm
22:05:44  <Stablean> <V453000> how
22:05:54  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
22:06:06  <Stablean> <bon> don't fret it too much ok?
22:07:03  <V453000> k got it now
22:07:11  <Stablean> <bon> I always can start one or two passenger trains till 1950s if I have to anyway :)
22:07:11  <V453000> !getsave
22:07:13  <Stablean> V453000: OK :-)
22:07:19  <V453000> !rcon load 2
22:07:23  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
22:07:30  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
22:07:30  <Stablean> *** solo joined the game
22:07:32  <Stablean> *** bon joined the game
22:07:33  <V453000> !auto
22:07:33  <Stablean> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
22:07:34  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:07:43  <Stablean> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:07:43  <Stablean> *** V453000 joined the game
22:07:45  <Stablean> *** V453000 has joined company #1
22:07:45  <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
22:07:53  <Stablean> <V453000> there you go :)
22:07:55  <Stablean> *** V453000 has joined spectators
22:07:55  <Stablean> *** Game paused (number of players)
22:09:12  <Stablean> <V453000> enjoy :D I am off to bed
22:09:14  <Stablean> <V453000> gnight
22:09:16  <Stablean> <solo> go temperate :p
22:09:18  <Stablean> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
22:09:25  <V453000> why temperate, firs is the same in all climates
22:09:36  <Stablean> <solo> ye true but this colors :)
22:09:50  <Stablean> <solo> nvmd, gn8
22:11:13  <Stablean> *** solo has left the game (leaving)
22:13:30  <Stablean> <bon> will start lumber boating in a moment...supper's being a bit problem :-s
22:23:45  <Stablean> *** bon has started a new company (#2)
22:23:45  <Stablean> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
22:24:10  <Stablean> <bon> yaaa .. WET wagons :)
22:25:14  *** Maraxus has quit IRC
22:36:30  <Stablean> <bon> don't worry about my lack of signal..just still in middle of supper here :->
22:46:39  <Stablean> *** Djanxy joined the game
22:46:47  <Stablean> <Djanxy> Hi bon
22:49:41  <Stablean> *** Djanxy has started a new company (#1)
22:51:57  <Stablean> <bon> hi..just was eating..done now :)
22:52:01  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :D
22:52:11  <Stablean> <bon> so yeah like my company name says...its only WET for me :)
22:52:17  <Stablean> <bon> talk about being nutty eh?
22:52:23  <Stablean> <Djanxy> FIRS always confuses me ;)
22:52:29  <Stablean> <Djanxy> hehe a little ;P
22:52:51  <Stablean> *** tux_R2D2 joined the game
22:54:35  <Stablean> *** tux_R2D2 has left the game (leaving)
22:57:29  <Stablean> <bon> djanxy .. can't wait to see what you build too btw ;)
22:57:47  <Stablean> <Djanxy> me neither lol
22:58:19  <Stablean> <bon> I'm working on a further 2nd forest now
22:58:33  <Stablean> <bon> then I'll stop a bit and see where I am operating profit wise before planning more ;)
22:58:41  <Stablean> <Djanxy> good choice :P
22:58:43  <Stablean> <bon> still its funny watching these little tugs chugging! :P
22:58:46  <Stablean> <Djanxy> hehe
22:58:57  <Stablean> <Djanxy> ye, will be fun to watch as it expands
22:58:59  <Stablean> <bon> noone told them water doesn't head uphill or downhill :)
22:59:29  <Stablean> <Djanxy> should add canals with boats for ultimate confusion
22:59:40  <Stablean> <bon> HEH that would be....silly :)
22:59:46  <Stablean> <Djanxy> but
22:59:49  <Stablean> <Djanxy> fun none the less
22:59:57  <Stablean> <bon> nuts = nutty
22:59:59  <Stablean> <bon> period :)
23:00:02  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :P
23:00:16  <Stablean> <bon> see how to lay down the station..
23:01:50  <Stablean> <bon> I sometimes get a tad bit confused by the gridless landscape tho
23:01:54  <Stablean> <bon> but its no major biggie tho
23:01:56  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah
23:02:06  <Stablean> <Djanxy> bit hard on the eys at first
23:02:16  <Stablean> <Djanxy> eyes*
23:02:42  <Stablean> <bon> especially when you thought you were avoiding a cut but then find your white line humping over it
23:03:45  <Stablean> <bon> I hope noone minds me using a bridge for now for lack of terraform cashflow :->
23:12:45  <Stablean> <bon> yeah I suspect these tugs do not even know what hills are!
23:12:51  <Stablean> <bon> they just chug 70kph straight :)
23:12:53  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :D
23:13:03  <Stablean> <bon> but that may be also due to the shorter train lengths tho
23:13:09  <Stablean> <bon> the newer route uses more barges so we'll see
23:13:52  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah, and realistic acceleration
23:16:22  <Stablean> <bon> yeah it doesn't hiccup uphill with six barges yet :)
23:16:33  <Stablean> <bon> nice to know I don't have to worry about short steep slopes with these
23:16:48  <Stablean> <bon> still going try make as smooth as I can in case of future upgrades/replaces tho...
23:16:58  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah
23:17:12  <Stablean> <Djanxy> oh man, that snow
23:17:26  <Stablean> <bon> or to put it another way .. you know how it is when you have a line that worked ok for early 60kph trains but then finding your newer 140kph locos getting slapped down in random tight spots
23:17:33  <Stablean> <bon> (did that make sense I hope?)
23:17:43  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah
23:17:54  <Stablean> <bon> np :)
23:18:00  <Stablean> <Djanxy> try to keep my curve lenght reasonable for my train lenght :D
23:18:12  <Stablean> <bon> well I have rather broad curves and somewhat gentle slopes
23:18:26  <Stablean> <bon> its only broken up by the short curves into platforms but thats when you're supposed to slow down anyway!
23:19:41  <Stablean> <bon> mm nice coal route
23:20:04  <Stablean> <bon> you're lucky this is FIRS not ECS ... the ECS steel mill hates it when you don't provide both outputs .. believe me!
23:20:19  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :D
23:20:29  <Stablean> <bon> heh and oil too? mmm you seem to be having fun
23:20:35  <Stablean> <Djanxy> never really played with either
23:21:18  <Stablean> <bon> well FIRS has a bit long chains to learn but its easy to play due to no "need x with y to be able to have steady z" complications
23:21:36  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah, looks like it's mainly bonuses ?
23:21:42  <Stablean> <bon> aye
23:21:56  <Stablean> <bon> and the "____ supplies" are a bit of a fun production booster too
23:22:10  <Stablean> <Djanxy> ye, that's what im gonna try out
23:22:16  <Stablean> <bon> anyway I'll check again later on to see what you have running around so far :)
23:22:35  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :P
23:23:22  <Stablean> <bon> btw look near Nefinghill ... thats where you can get engineering supplies for the coal mine boost ok? :)  just letting you know ;)
23:23:42  <Stablean> <bon> you'll have to find lumber but...heh theres sawmills near your lines too
23:23:52  <Stablean> <bon> so...yeah you have it easy
23:24:03  <Stablean> <Djanxy> :P
23:24:14  <Stablean> <bon> I need to think what I want to do with lumbers yet
23:24:20  <Stablean> <bon> but thats not for right now tho
23:24:22  <Stablean> <Djanxy> takes a little effort to get to know the chains i guess
23:24:29  <Stablean> <bon> yeah and btw you know what?
23:24:47  <Stablean> <bon> I forgot which ottd version started it but click on an industry and click on 'display chain' .. so clever eh?
23:24:57  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah i know :D
23:25:27  <Stablean> <bon> going add 3rd forest in a moment...heh ;)
23:26:49  <Stablean> <bon> btw theres one slight silly thing I sometimes do (not very realistic but whatever) with arctic maps...
23:27:23  <Stablean> <bon> careful steady route uphill even if its much longer due to being loops .. but downhill is "as straight as it goes...damn the brakes!!!" ... hehe
23:27:45  <Stablean> <Djanxy> hehe
23:27:48  <Stablean> <bon> nothing like spending several days watching a train climb uphill to finally reach a station .. then after it loads it takes one single day to zoom full speed straight down the wall :)
23:27:58  <Stablean> <bon> hehehe
23:28:05  <Stablean> <Djanxy> alright, 6k left :D
23:28:08  <Stablean> <Djanxy> time to wait
23:28:31  <Stablean> <bon> oic...yeah thats why I kinda decided to go boating....rails are a teeny expensive to me
23:28:41  <Stablean> <bon> but to our own gameplay choices right? :)
23:29:23  <Stablean> <Djanxy> pretty cool still :D
23:30:02  <Stablean> <Djanxy> mm, sometimes miss fast forward from singleplayer
23:30:12  <Stablean> <bon> me? :P
23:30:22  <Stablean> <bon> (unless you don't like watching watery stuffs)
23:30:22  <Stablean> <bon> ;)
23:33:33  <Stablean> <Djanxy> oops ,had full load on both ends of oil trains :D
23:33:39  <Stablean> <bon> ops? :->
23:34:01  <Stablean> <Djanxy> doesnt speed up the income :=)
23:34:27  <Stablean> <bon> ok thats 3 to 1 in a single loop now
23:34:33  <Stablean> <Djanxy> sweet
23:34:39  <Stablean> <bon> (I could do a 4th forest closely but I'll think later)
23:34:57  <Stablean> <bon> now to mull about lumber or yet more wood somewhere else
23:35:00  <Stablean> <bon> :)
23:36:10  <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game
23:36:12  <Stablean> <bon> hi sylf
23:36:14  <Stablean> <Djanxy> hi sylf
23:36:16  <Stablean> <Sylf> hi
23:36:30  <Stablean> <Sylf> good, we have new nuts here too
23:36:40  <Stablean> <bon> sylf...aye..look at my company name
23:36:46  <Stablean> <bon> it'll give you a hint how silly I look! :D
23:36:46  <Stablean> <bon> hehehehe
23:36:52  <Stablean> <bon> chug chug chug ;)
23:37:54  <Stablean> <Sylf> those look like barges with trailers
23:38:05  <Stablean> <bon> tugboat hauling barges...aye :)
23:38:27  <Stablean> <Sylf> wait until there are fat ships
23:38:38  <Stablean> <bon> theres at least 3 ships I think
23:38:44  <Stablean> <bon> so mm yeah I'll be able to have a bit variety anyway
23:38:54  <Stablean> <Sylf> there will be at least 9 ships in the end
23:39:01  <Stablean> <bon> anyway seem I lucked out..theres a lumber yard for me :D
23:39:04  <Stablean> <bon> 9? neat
23:39:54  <Stablean> <Sylf> and these ships are quite fit for refit games, if you're ever into those
23:40:12  <Stablean> <bon> yeah thats one thing I've found amusing about the 'universal wagon' idea indeed
23:40:30  <Stablean> <bon> but it doesn't quite fit with my gameplay tho harm done
23:42:05  <Stablean> <Sylf> I'll come and build later today...
23:42:11  <Stablean> *** Sylf has left the game (leaving)
23:42:15  <Stablean> <bon> np I'll watch for you tomorrow
23:42:17  <Stablean> <bon> ah drats :)
23:42:23  <Sylf> the evening is still young
23:42:29  <Stablean> <bon> heh
23:42:51  <Stablean> <Djanxy> the talk about refit has intrigued me
23:43:13  <Stablean> <Djanxy> could be sweet for this since everything produces something
23:43:32  <Sylf> One of the limiting factor about refit game is the depot, and how they slow the trains down
23:43:39  <Stablean> <Djanxy> yeah
23:43:49  <Sylf> Because the ships are so slow, the depots are less of bother
23:43:55  <Stablean> <Djanxy> but could be fun to try out at least
23:44:02  <Stablean> <bon> 62kph entry/exit speed or something like that right sylf?
23:44:13  <Sylf> yeah, something around there
23:44:21  <Stablean> <Djanxy> 61 iirc ;)
23:44:23  <Stablean> <bon> yeah that could slow down a lot of trains indeed
23:44:30  <Sylf> the fastest ever ships will travel at 120km/h
23:44:40  <Stablean> <bon> 120? thats pretty fast :P
23:44:48  <Stablean> <bon> I'm ok with plodding speed right now tho ;)
23:44:53  <Sylf> as long as you don't use 30 tile trains for refit games, you'll be set
23:45:20  <Stablean> <bon> duh took me some time to find where a Hardware Store is
23:45:22  <Stablean> <Djanxy> i've gone with TL3, so shouldnt be too nad
23:45:29  <Stablean> <bon> of course its a damn small 1x1 building
23:45:40  <Stablean> <bon> I should had thought they would be so small you can easily miss them :)
23:45:43  <Stablean> <Djanxy> too bad*
23:46:04  <Sylf> I should leave a MM line...
23:46:09  <Stablean> <bon> ok lets see.. forest>sawmill>lumber yard>hardware store .. thats a full chain .. fun
23:46:27  <Stablean> *** Sylf joined the game
23:47:46  <Stablean> *** Sylf has started a new company (#3)
23:50:46  <Stablean> <bon> curse the hill...may have to make some backfill to fit station :->
23:58:12  <Stablean> <bon> there we go..ever-longer tug :)
23:59:10  <Stablean> <bon> <still can't stop wondering how silly boats on land is

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