Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 29th December 2013:
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00:00:01  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> i'll let you know when I'm done, and you can see if they keep going there
00:01:07  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> oh the horror
00:02:11  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> yoyo
00:02:21  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
00:02:33  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
00:02:43  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I just smoked some crack
00:02:52  <coopserver> *** Big Meech has joined
00:02:52  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
00:03:14  <coopserver> <Big Meech> hell yeah!
00:07:37  <coopserver> <Big Meech> fizzy drop is in a bad spot
00:07:57  <coopserver> <Big Meech> for blue
00:08:01  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> y
00:09:52  <coopserver> <Big Meech> I like bright yellows transport
00:11:53  <coopserver> <Anson> you saw them disappearing, but don't know where ? .... strange
00:13:08  <coopserver> *** Big Meech has left the game (general timeout)
00:13:52  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> Wh ydont you put the cola and bubbles drop further down the island that the drop is on currently ? on the top of that bigger plateau
00:17:30  <coopserver> <Anson> who is messing with the sweet pickup ?
00:17:45  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> not I
00:18:27  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> i fuck around with it homeboy
00:18:28  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> do we need electric now?
00:23:28  <coopserver> <Anson> what did you do to my sign ???
00:23:35  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> well I'm outta here for now
00:23:37  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> i smashed it
00:24:05  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> SLH002 is done, and fizzy drop should be working
00:24:27  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> nice grate  job  joe
00:25:00  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> hell yeah Joe Schmoe
00:25:46  <coopserver> *** JoeSchmoe has left the game (Leaving)
00:29:49  <coopserver> <Anson> train 8 is another such train ... lost and trying to replace someplace
00:33:46  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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00:34:05  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi  Slicey
00:34:08  <coopserver> <Slicey> hello!
00:34:33  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi
00:35:13  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> joe  has   join  me     on this  map he  was  to  late  to  start  on   a  company Slicey
00:35:21  <coopserver> <Slicey> alright
00:35:42  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> so  u  can  join as  will
00:35:48  <coopserver> <Slicey> alright :)
00:35:59  <coopserver> <Slicey> i will when i get back be back later
00:36:01  <coopserver> *** Slicey has left the game (Leaving)
00:39:03  <coopserver> <Anson> trains 8 and 80 delivered their cargo at the proper station now, and are back on schedule now
00:43:03  <coopserver> <Anson> about the orders of train 190 :
00:43:32  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> yep i  see   it
00:59:35  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> hell yeah
00:59:40  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I just got a 24 pack
01:00:33  <happy_> and  u  going to  drink  them  all  rite
01:01:06  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> yeah
01:01:13  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I hope i can drink it all in 2 hours
01:01:27  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> 2 days ago i drank so much i think i died
01:01:42  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> pretty fucking cool
01:03:29  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> how much you pay if i can drink these 24 can  s in 1 hour?
01:03:30  <happy_> will    u  whont  to  be     died  then  yes  if  not  then  dont  drink  them  in  2   hours     but   thats  my  say  u doo  whont  u like
01:03:53  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> k
01:04:35  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> how much you paY?
01:05:41  <happy_> not  shor
01:07:28  <happy_> i can not  to  night  i am  doing  a  dreem  rite  now  and  i  am  in a play   tat  no   won  as  been  be for
01:07:45  <coopserver> *** Yianni has left the game (Leaving)
01:09:32  <happy_> woo   nice  place  i  am in
01:10:45  <happy_> dame  internet   is  slow to  night  dame  poker   players
01:13:41  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> you pay 10L ?
01:13:47  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> i got 1 beer down
01:13:48  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> 23 more
01:13:50  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> to go
01:14:31  <happy_> 10L ?
01:14:44  <happy_> whonts  is  that
01:16:12  <happy_> ok  i got  10  mints  be  for  i  am going in my dreems
01:19:39  <happy_> heem   this place     i  have  seen  this  place  be for    wate   or  hill  yer       i am  in   jurassic  park    get  in
01:23:10  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> 22 beers
01:23:19  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> Happy you ar gonna owe me pounds sterling
01:23:55  <happy_> eney  way  u  got  to  find  me  in  the   jurassic  park        HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH   if  u  whont  me to  pay u
01:24:49  <happy_> hell yeah    this  place  is    grate   get in
01:25:56  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> lol i have no idea wtf you are talking about
01:26:03  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> maybe i need to do more crystal meth
01:27:03  <happy_> have  u  not  play  the  jurassic  park
01:27:26  <happy_> wher  u doo  your   jurassic  park
01:30:28  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has joined spectators
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01:30:32  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> On what? Super Nintendo?
01:31:00  <happy_> no    on  pc
01:32:16  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> How old is that game? 20 years old?
01:33:37  <happy_> jurassic  park    Operation Genesis   on  pc
01:34:39  <happy_> woo  i got  a grate   plan  for  to  morr  onn the open  ttd  he  he
01:35:17  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> oh yeah i beat that game twice
01:35:35  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> while drinking
01:35:40  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> 21 beers to go
01:36:01  <happy_>      jurassic  park           Operation Genesis   is  the     best     jurassic  park       game  ar  out  ther   i  love  it
01:36:13  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I prefer real life Jurrassic park
01:36:19  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> where i kill dinosaurs while i am on LSD
01:36:54  <happy_> u  can  doo  that  on  jurassic  park     Operation Genesis
01:37:41  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> onh sweet
01:37:49  <happy_> yep
01:39:14  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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01:40:46  <happy_> and     just  think  all    the  passengers  u  can let  the     dinosaurs   cume  out  and  kill  them  all HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH
01:44:09  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> hell yeah
01:44:13  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> 20 beers to go
01:44:14  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> that is the best
01:44:33  <happy_> eney  way   gn  all  got to go and get  sume  sleep     have  fun    whive  your     20    berr
01:45:17  <happy_> be  back  to mor
01:47:38  <happy_> its  good  bay to  happy   tran sport and     say  hi  to     welcume  to  jurassic  park       whive  the best  plyer    its  happy   jurassic  park
01:48:21  <happy_> hill  yer
01:49:08  <happy_> woch  out  the dinosaurs ar  cume   so  woch  out
01:49:17  <happy_> he he  he
01:49:24  <happy_> hill  yer
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01:57:04  <coopserver> <Cameron> rawr
01:57:10  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> yoooooooooo
01:57:27  <coopserver> <Cameron>
01:58:26  <coopserver> <jurassic park> welcume  to  jurassic park    woch  out
01:58:26  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> Sup Boss!
01:58:30  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I got 19 more beers
01:58:36  <coopserver> *** Cameron has joined company #5
01:58:48  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> what about thunder storm?
01:58:55  <coopserver> <Cameron> idk
01:59:32  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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01:59:41  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> hell yeah
01:59:43  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> ill drink to that
02:00:14  <coopserver> <Cameron> lol
02:00:24  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> yer  u  doo  that  he  he  he
02:01:14  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> woch out  the  thunder  storm  is  cuming
02:01:21  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> he he
02:01:30  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> id hate to get that on my face
02:01:38  <coopserver> <Cameron> pink deadlocked again
02:02:31  <coopserver> *** Cameron has left the game (Leaving)
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02:03:05  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo
02:03:40  <coopserver> <jurassic park> welcume  to  the   jurassic park      and  now  the  best  player    is   cuming   on  rite  now
02:04:07  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, happy
02:04:17  <Cameron> oh, look, a wild Anson appeared xD
02:04:32  <coopserver> <jurassic park> how   happy
02:04:42  <coopserver> <jurassic park> i  dont  no   hem
02:04:51  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> shoot it
02:04:54  <coopserver> <Anson> pink almost won the contest for smalles loop that causes a deadlock :-)
02:05:07  <Cameron> :P
02:05:34  <Cameron> alright, lemme go get my 12ga and then we can go, ok?
02:05:59  <coopserver> <Anson> speks lik haapy, mut bi haapy :-)
02:06:25  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> don't worry... be happy
02:07:57  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
02:08:00  <coopserver> *** jurassic park   happy has joined
02:08:00  <coopserver> <jurassic park> will  u  will  find out  now   he  is  the  best     jurassic  park   player  is   juassic  park   happy
02:08:03  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
02:08:50  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> thsnks  jurassic  park
02:09:47  <coopserver> <Anson> I'll start #190 now
02:10:17  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> and  yes    i  am    the  best  player     and  now  the  jurassic  park  is  now  open   woch  out
02:11:30  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> dame  juarssic park    we  ar  on  the  rone     place  this  is  the  open  ttd  not  the  juraasic park
02:11:48  <coopserver> <jurassic park> ar     dame
02:12:44  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> how  meny times     did  i  say  u  fort  to  tern  left
02:13:11  <coopserver> <jurassic park> will    u got     the  map
02:13:43  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> yes      i have  the  map
02:14:28  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> lest  not  start  this  a  gen
02:15:05  <coopserver> <jurassic park> y  not   its  the  thunder  storm     he  start  it
02:15:52  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> look   just  stop it  now
02:15:59  <coopserver> <jurassic park> ok
02:16:03  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> ok
02:16:45  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> now   wher  the   wtf    is  that  phone
02:16:58  <coopserver> <jurassic park> i  got  it
02:17:03  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> good
02:17:53  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> now    phone  the    player  and  get  to   cume  and  help  us
02:18:02  <coopserver> <jurassic park> k
02:18:46  <coopserver> <jurassic park> ok    i  just  tel  hem we  need  help
02:18:54  <coopserver> <jurassic park   happy> yes
02:19:39  <coopserver> <jurassic park> hi   can  u  help  us  we  got  lost        player
02:19:42  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
02:19:45  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has joined
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02:20:34  <coopserver> <Anson> test done, and found a bad signal (reversed :-)
02:20:51  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> whont   now  jurassic  park      i  was just  going  to   bed
02:21:05  <coopserver> <jurassic park> we  got  lost
02:21:57  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> will   d  i  did  say   doo  u  no  ther  way     and  u say  yes i doo
02:22:07  <coopserver> <jurassic park> true
02:23:20  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> look  just  get  of  this  server  ok  u   need  the  juassic  park   server  i45667 990
02:23:33  <coopserver> <jurassic park> ar
02:23:36  <coopserver> <jurassic park> k
02:23:41  <coopserver> *** jurassic park has left the game (Leaving)
02:25:15  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> thats  gos  to  u   to  jurassick  park happy
02:25:28  <coopserver> *** thunder  storm has left the game (Leaving)
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02:25:46  <coopserver> *** jurassic park   happy has left the game (Leaving)
02:26:55  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> whont  ar  u  doing  doing  on  this  server thunder  storm
02:27:14  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> Y  NOT
02:28:34  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> how  meney  times  doo i  have to  say to u   u  as will ar on  the  rone  server  u need  the  storm   server 345787
02:28:48  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> u shord  no  by now
02:28:58  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> ar   thanks
02:29:54  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> now  get  out  out  ov  ther     this  for the players  that  love  tran
02:30:06  <coopserver> <thunder  storm> ar   i   see
02:30:12  <coopserver> *** thunder  storm has left the game (Leaving)
02:31:51  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> rite   now     wher  was  i   ar yes     bed  time   ar  hi anson   did  not seer u ther  i    soory  a bout  that  i  chek  that  tran  in the  moring
02:32:07  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> have  fun
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03:09:21  <coopserver> <sim-al2> hi
03:09:26  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> hi
03:11:18  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Company 6 is in dire straits...
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03:12:17  <coopserver> <Anson> pink already had one deadlock, but intead of fixing the problem everywhere, pink now has the same kind of problem again ...
03:13:16  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Kinda a pity that everything got built up only to bleed money like crazy
03:17:01  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Any reason for the two locomotive + four wagon trains? Acceleration is nice but aren't the running costs rather high?
03:30:27  <coopserver> <Anson> look at our profits ... does the cost for double engines matter ? .-)
03:30:44  <coopserver> <sim-al2> True
03:31:04  <coopserver> <Anson> there are two facts to decide :
03:31:04  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> i never understand why Happy has such small trains
03:31:23  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> true fact
03:31:36  <coopserver> <Anson> how much cargo can be transported with 1 engine + 5 wagons, or with 2 engines + 4 wagons
03:31:44  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> 25% more
03:31:53  <coopserver> <Anson> and how is the acceleration with 1 or 2 engines
03:32:15  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> perfect
03:33:01  <coopserver> <Anson> with 2 engines, power and TE are better, and with fewer wagons, weight is less and thus accelartion is better too
03:33:02  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> one slow 8, would give us more power and only drop 5km/h
03:34:19  <coopserver> <Anson> thanks for reminding me ... replacing medium 6 with medium 8 now ... much more power and TE and more speed too
04:02:40  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, sim ... look at !! ACCEL TEST :-)
04:03:17  <coopserver> <sim-al2> ok
04:03:46  <coopserver> <Anson> four trains, each combination of full and empty trains, 1 and 2 engines
04:05:20  <coopserver> <Anson> first is empty 2 engines, last is full 1 engine, and thw other two are almost the same medium speed
04:06:19  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Single loaded lags behind, which is a big deal in a large network
04:06:21  <coopserver> <Anson> nice difference between 1 and 2 engines ...
04:07:16  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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04:07:52  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I see happy puts two locos on trains fairly early, but he seems to run longer trains early on and shortens them up later
04:08:21  <coopserver> <Cameron> easier to manage, but I dislike that
04:10:07  <coopserver> <Anson> i marked with X those tiles where the trains got max speed
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04:10:30  <coopserver> <Woodbutcher> hi
04:10:40  <coopserver> <sim-al2> There was a coop game on in the archive that had long trains with a superstrong type locomotive that I liked
04:10:43  <coopserver> <sim-al2> hi
04:10:45  <coopserver> <Anson> 11 tiles (minus 3 for length) for the double engine, and 5 more for the single
04:11:12  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> when I do my own company, I don't mind the slow accel, because once I get them on the ML they rarely stop
04:11:12  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Big difference, I agree
04:11:38  <coopserver> <Anson> you have no hubs, no merges,  etc ?
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04:12:11  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> no I have them, but they are prioritized
04:12:23  <coopserver> <Anson> every hub and merge has a chance for collision and one train needs to stop and accelerate again
04:12:26  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> also longer trains = less of them
04:12:39  <coopserver> <Cameron> we missed the ship running cost again...
04:12:52  <coopserver> <Anson> even if the train on the ML doesn't stop (because of prios etc), the other train has to stop
04:13:25  <coopserver> <Anson> and when it takes 50% longer to accelerate from the sideline, the gap between trains on the ML needs to be a lot bigger for the sideline trains to merge
04:13:28  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> true, but it isn't on the ML yet
04:14:22  <coopserver> <Anson> when a train stops at a prio, it IS on the ML as soon as it starts accelerating
04:14:28  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> if we were running TL5 with one engine we would have less than half the trains
04:14:40  <coopserver> <Anson> and then it is very useful if it gets max speed as fast as possible
04:15:53  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> I've got an expirement lines up for the next reasonable map
04:16:17  <coopserver> <Anson> prios (and gaps between ML trains) need to be how long, when the merging train has 1 or 2 engines ?
04:17:28  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> half the trains = half the number of gaps
04:18:03  <coopserver> <Anson> much slower acceleration = need for triple gaps
04:19:12  <coopserver> <Anson> on the test we just watched, the double headed train was 5 tiles faster to get to max speed, and thus the prios can be much smaller
04:20:14  <coopserver> <Anson> and igf the network is not perfect, there will be more slowdowns, jams, whatever and the missing acceleration takes effect more often
04:20:27  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> i'm not arguing that it isn't faster and better accel. I'm arguing that you can move more cargo on the same network with longer trains, and can make more profit by having 1/4 the engines
04:20:51  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I did have that problem on the previous map where one sideline would have trouble getting trains on the mainline. I partially solved that by building a dedicated out line for one industry, but I think I would have built another lane on the mainline for the other industry
04:22:01  <coopserver> <Woodbutcher> Ahhh hot diggity dog diggity boom whatcha do to me...
04:22:06  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I think short trains makes it less stressful to get a good network going though, because you have a little more leeway in corners and hills
04:22:40  <coopserver> <Anson> acceleration is also needed
04:22:50  <coopserver> <Anson> at those tight corners
04:23:24  <coopserver> <Anson> and tight is relative ... on TL3, CL is never needed bigger than 3, but on TL5, TL7, or more .....
04:23:36  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I love the superstrong class
04:23:42  <coopserver> <Woodbutcher> night guys
04:23:44  <coopserver> <sim-al2> locomotives
04:23:47  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Night
04:23:54  <coopserver> *** Woodbutcher has left the game (Leaving)
04:24:20  <coopserver> <Anson> there is a parameter for weight of trains ... that usually is 1, but can be set to larger values to multiply the weight of trains
04:24:56  <coopserver> <Anson> i once did a game with slope steelness 5 and weight multiplier 5 ... wheat trains needed one engine per wagon to go faster than 10 kph
04:26:12  <coopserver> <Anson> might be interesting to see a map with hills, where people need to find the best combination of multiple engines, train length, etc
04:27:26  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> well so far so good on the fizzy drink route
04:30:45  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> Well next map I want to try something like TL7
04:31:01  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> With a gap of 5 or 6
04:31:43  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> but at merges drop that to 1,2,3 so that it gives trains some time to accelerate
04:31:43  <coopserver> <Anson> too bad that there is no easy option to do a more variable autoreplace, eg replacing EWWWWE with EWWWWW (Engines and Wagons)
04:31:54  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yeah
04:32:23  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> you almost have to build two identical routes to see how it works
04:32:23  <coopserver> <Anson> gap 5 ? you mean the signal spacing ?
04:32:29  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yup
04:32:40  <coopserver> <Anson> i think that should always be 2, independent of the train length
04:33:02  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> signal space it at 1,2 at the merge
04:33:22  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> well expected gap of 5-6...
04:33:38  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> huge benefit there would be no more double bridges/tunnels
04:34:43  <coopserver> <Anson> you still need double bridges for best speed
04:35:08  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> not if your gaps are 5-6
04:37:03  <coopserver> <Anson> but with that larger gap, you need a lot more space ...
04:37:20  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> more space in what way?
04:39:07  <coopserver> <Anson> build two tracks, one with spacing 2 and one with spacing 3 or 4 ...
04:39:42  <coopserver> <Anson> then fill the track with trains and start emptying them ... and watch how long it takes until the last train starts moving
04:40:01  <coopserver> <Anson> it takes quite some more time for gap 3+
04:40:47  <coopserver> <Anson> gap 1 would be better for straight tracks, but since you have gap 2 anyway at every split and merge, best spacing should be 2
04:41:14  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> I understand that.. let me think about an expirement for a moment
04:44:42  <coopserver> <Anson> experiment set up near the old test site, at sign !! ACCEL TEST
04:45:06  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> ok
04:45:11  <coopserver> <sim-al2> ok
04:47:11  <coopserver> <Anson> same test again with sopacing 4
04:47:58  <coopserver> <Anson> test should be done again on a larger loop, without tight curves
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04:49:44  <coopserver> <Anson> the problem with large spacing is that the first train in a queue needs to advance eg 4 tiles instead of only 2 until the next starts moving at all. that one needs to move 4 too, etc ... and all those delays add up a lot
04:50:47  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yes, but my idea is to have the first spacing after a merge be 1 or 2, then grow the spacing to 5 or 6
04:51:21  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> that way trains can start moving faster, but the acceleration time leads to a 5-6 tile gap
04:51:41  <coopserver> <Anson> that will be very difficult ... trains which pass the merge at full speed need their usual spacing
04:52:03  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> they will maintain it from earlier spacing
04:53:18  <coopserver> <Anson> and if a train has some "medium" speed, it will be tii fast for the train in front of it which accelerates slower, and thus catch up and might even stop completely. thuis it would ned to accelerate again ...
04:53:37  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> that is the risk
04:54:04  <coopserver> <Anson> remember that on most networks, there are not only 2 different speeds and accelerations, but each type of cargo has a different weight, and thus different acceleration of trains
05:12:25  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> Anson
05:12:33  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> take a look at TL Test
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05:16:34  <coopserver> <Anson> ok, i am watching now
05:16:49  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> ok, here we go
05:18:12  <coopserver> <Anson> in the curves, trains slow down to 132 kph ... CL 1.5 only
05:18:28  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> CL1.5 for TL7 as well
05:18:53  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> plus loading time would be much reduced for only 3 trains, vs 9 trains
05:19:30  <coopserver> <Anson> looks like 10 tiles gap between trains
05:19:37  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> and I
05:19:57  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> and I can fit additional trains on the TL7 network
05:20:06  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> where the TL network is full already
05:20:41  <coopserver> <Anson> loading time per train would be the same, but faster for the same number of wagons ... but don't forget that longer trains cause a bigger gap on the platforms and thus entry and exit takes longer too
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05:23:27  <coopserver> <Anson> what about the CL ?
05:23:34  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> TL7 running cost 3 engines, TL3 running cost 18 engines
05:23:55  <coopserver> <Anson> when you have a low CL that slows down both trains, they both will go only 132 kph
05:24:21  <coopserver> <Anson> but when you have short trains, you easily can extend CL1.5 to CL2.5 and go full speed
05:24:57  <coopserver> <Anson> with the longer trains, they would still be slowed down a lot, even with CL2.5, 3.5, 4.5, ...
05:25:14  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yes with long trains you don't have to go full speed through corners, they don't run as fast to begin with
05:26:11  <coopserver> <Anson> true ... superstrong 5 is only 105 kph, a lot less than the max speed of CL1.5 (132kph)
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05:26:44  <coopserver> <Anson> but what about max speed and transported cargo ?
05:27:02  <coopserver> <Anson> when a train goes twice as fast, you only need half as many trains ...
05:27:03  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> whats the max speed on the cl 2.5?
05:27:22  <coopserver> <DimonT92> im Russian
05:27:28  <coopserver> <DimonT92> )))
05:27:30  <coopserver> <Anson> @@(clcalc rail 3)
05:27:32  <Webster> coopserver: A rail Curve Length of 3 (5 half tiles) gives a speed of 168km/h or 105mph
05:27:53  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> so thats is above strong 8's max speed
05:28:13  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, dimon ... as long as you don't type with russian letters, that doesn't matter :-)
05:28:23  <coopserver> <DimonT92> ?
05:28:32  <coopserver> <DimonT92> руддщ
05:28:37  <coopserver> <DimonT92> hello
05:28:48  <coopserver> <DimonT92> sory
05:28:52  <coopserver> <Anson> i only saw lots of "?"
05:29:38  <coopserver> <Anson> can you all read äöü ÄÖÜ ß § ?
05:30:38  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> 3x the wagons still counters that
05:31:01  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> so basically, there is a good balance in the game
05:31:15  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> you can make a great network either way
05:31:34  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> either with quantity, or with speed
05:32:30  <coopserver> <Anson> strong 8 = 155 kph ... maglev medium 2 = 334 kph ... capacity is 35 vs 22 ... which is better ? .-)
05:34:03  <coopserver> <Anson> the maglev is twice as fast, but still has more than 50% capacity ...
05:34:09  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> for the same number of wagons it would be maglev, but factor it 3x the wagons with strong
05:34:27  <coopserver> <DimonT92> i understood a little English, end iuse a translator , if you do not remember ste letters and translations
05:35:36  <coopserver> <DimonT92> я Русский)) вы так наверно не понимаете наш язык))
05:35:52  <coopserver> <Anson> on this server, there are people from many different countries and continents ... thus everybody should be able to communicate in english
05:37:00  <coopserver> <Anson> in your last line, i only read "? ???????)) ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ????))"
05:37:12  <coopserver> <DimonT92> не понел
05:37:16  <coopserver> <DimonT92> )
05:37:23  <coopserver> <DimonT92> not
05:38:11  <Anson> hehe. here, i can read cyrillic. but i still do not understand it.
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05:43:22  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> wtg Anson
05:43:32  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> now he'll never come back :(
05:47:59  <coopserver> <Anson> i don't understand "wtg2 either ... will you leave now and never come back ? .-)
05:48:47  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> I will
05:48:50  <HAPPYNEWYEAR_MEECH> bye
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05:49:36  <coopserver> <Anson> i didn't know that i am that powerfull ... usually, only V succeeds in that :-)
05:49:43  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> well Anson you have been too cruel to everyone else, so I might as well leave too
05:49:57  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> but my real reason is that it is bed time
05:50:30  <coopserver> <Anson> your BBH seems to work realy nice
05:50:34  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> ty
05:50:44  <coopserver> <Anson> will you do another rebuid tomorrow ?
05:50:56  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> rebuid?
05:51:08  <coopserver> <Anson> the sweet rntry and exit is a bit sour now ...
05:51:19  <coopserver> <Anson> * rebuild
05:52:07  <coopserver> <Anson> it worked well enough to add 60 candy trains, but i think that is almost the limit now
05:52:40  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> well if you only had 20 candy trains each carrying 3x the candy....
05:52:52  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> lol
05:53:02  <coopserver> <Anson> and still 2000+ candy waiting at the station, with a low rating of 34 only ... thus we could produce twice what we do now when we get more candy trains and better connections
05:53:18  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> anyways, i'll be on a bit tomorrow, though i won't have much free time
05:53:33  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> gnite
05:53:40  <coopserver> <Anson> g'n8
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09:30:44  <coopserver> <Anson> an admin once saved them, and i might donate some money, but that is only possible (and then no longer needed) when someone is logged in for that company ...
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09:48:10  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
09:48:29  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, Sam
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09:57:52  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Hi there
09:58:00  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, syl
09:58:44  <coopserver> <Anson> tough lessons for some people, how not to build junctions ... too bad that they can't see what happened
09:59:25  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Tough lesson for me too :D
09:59:33  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> how to not start a compagny :D
09:59:39  <coopserver> <Anson> one had deadlock for the second time and went bankrupt, the other still has deadlock, but still earns enough to survive
09:59:52  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> which one ?
10:00:02  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> oki, green
10:00:11  <coopserver> <Anson> pink went bankrupt ... yannie or some similar name
10:00:30  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> I see who it was
10:02:09  <coopserver> <Anson> and i had deadlocks for 2 years too ... some people didn't follow the standards and thus lots of trains got lost when i tried to autoreplace
10:03:36  <coopserver> <Anson> currently, i am testing long trains, right between the short trains :-)
10:04:15  <coopserver> <Anson> do you have an idea how to split traffic at some point with TL3 going to one set of platforms, and TL12 to another ?
10:05:28  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Way points ?
10:08:34  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, that would be one option ... but i would like to do it automatically
10:09:16  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> I think you must use some logic gates but I really don't know how to do that
10:10:02  <coopserver> <Anson> currently, i have a solution, but to make it failsafe, i needed to increase signal gap at one point :-( ... second problem doesn't hurt (false detection of a few TL3 which are sent to long platforms)
10:10:26  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Anson, here I'm like a beginner xD
10:10:55  <coopserver> <Anson> i have used kind of a prio, but which looks behind the train and then switches a 2way signal in front of it
10:13:19  <coopserver> <Anson> grats to fourth place :-)
10:13:25  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> xDDDDD
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10:16:06  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> I think i will have to redo my entire network later
10:16:55  <coopserver> <Anson> oh, yellow just got problems too
10:17:52  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> I don't know you can do a shitty station like at grunfingford
10:18:01  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> that's a deadlock too
10:19:36  <coopserver> <Anson> he tried to imitate my overflow depots, without understanding what they really do
10:26:44  <coopserver> <Anson> and now we got another massive jam ... deadlock probably too
10:26:52  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> where ?
10:26:56  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> yellow too ?
10:27:10  <coopserver> <Anson> WE, dark blue .-)
10:27:17  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> ow ...
10:27:52  <coopserver> <Anson> 30+ fizzy trains waiting for pickup and blocking access to the drop
10:28:57  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> That's not a deadlock :D
10:29:28  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Well, bad game for me ...
10:29:55  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> I quit :) cya Anson
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10:30:11  <coopserver> <Anson> it is ...
10:30:55  <coopserver> <Anson> when trains block each other, it is a deadlock ... here it is indirect, by blocking access to a drop which is needed to pickup something else
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11:43:40  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, yianni (and all others)
11:43:49  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi
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11:43:56  <coopserver> <Anson> you were the old pink company too ?
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11:44:08  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yeah, which died :-/
11:44:38  <coopserver> <Anson> you had a deadlock once and an admin saved you
11:44:52  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yeah same thing happened again
11:45:01  <coopserver> <Yianni> deadlock
11:45:15  <coopserver> <Yianni> but I wasnt't so lucky this time
11:45:21  <coopserver> <Anson> later you were online, but didn't change a lot, and thus the same problem (at a sifferent spot) happened again .... and you went bankrupt
11:46:34  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yeah, I need to improve my junction designs
11:47:27  <coopserver> <Anson> if you build junctions like you did, you have to leave enough space behind each crossing to take an entire train without blocking the crossing with the last few wagons
11:47:50  <coopserver> <Anson> that will make the network slower, but it can't deadlock
11:49:08  <coopserver> <Anson> look at the green company ... they have exactly the same problem ... signals in front of junctions and not enough space behind them. thus trains being stopped on the crossing and deadlocking
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11:49:37  <coopserver> <Yianni> I see.
11:49:49  <coopserver> <Yianni> It stops everything from moving
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11:52:08  <coopserver> <Anson> first train blocks second ... no problem ... second blocks third ... still no problem ... sooner or later they all will move again when the first moves
11:52:45  <coopserver> <Anson> but when the first is blocked by another train, eg the third, then they all block each other and require manual intervention ... else deadlock forever
11:53:59  <coopserver> <Anson> there is also an "indirect" deadlock ... several trains block the entrance to a drop station, and thus they will not be able to pickup produced goods, and thus continue blocking the drop trains
11:55:02  <coopserver> <Anson> this kind of deadlock can be resolved by other people : an additional line to the factory will cause it to produce goods again and thus the blocking trains will be loaded and free the entrance to the drop
11:55:53  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : yellow has a deadlock too ... this map seems to be the deadlocking game :-)
11:56:03  <coopserver> <Yianni> Haha
11:57:25  <coopserver> <Yianni> It's difficult, you have to have a map of where everything's going, and how it's going to get there
12:00:56  <coopserver> <Anson> there are several methods how to organize the network
12:02:18  <coopserver> <Anson> the usual method on the public server and by miost coop players is to have a network with a backbone ... some mainline, some sidelines which are connected at hubs, and then connecting mines and similar to the sidelines
12:03:08  <coopserver> <Anson> with such a system, you don't have to know where trains will go ... simply connect a new mine to a sideline, and trains will find their path to a drop station automatically
12:04:32  <coopserver> <Anson> in those networks, there is (almost always) only one drop station for every type of cargo and a group for all those trains in the train list window
12:05:21  <coopserver> <Anson> if you want to connect a new mine, just copy one such train, replace the pickup order with the new pickup order, and clone a few more trains ... done :-)
12:05:21  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ok
12:07:36  <coopserver> <Anson> do you want to see an example of how to connect a new mine to the network ?
12:07:51  <coopserver> <Yianni> Sure
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12:08:22  <coopserver> <Anson> we have a station Trinningpool Woods for cotton
12:08:48  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ahh, yes
12:08:52  <coopserver> <Yianni> I see it
12:08:58  <coopserver> <Anson> nearby is another cotton forest : Grennpool Cotton Candy Forest
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12:09:34  <coopserver> <Yianni> uh huh
12:11:31  <coopserver> <Anson> station built
12:11:35  <coopserver> <Anson> now the trains
12:12:03  <coopserver> <Yianni> That's nice, no dodgy intersections
12:12:34  <coopserver> <Anson> done
12:12:59  <coopserver> <Yianni> What does the pronged piece of track here do?
12:13:12  <coopserver> <Anson> and i don't know where the cargo is going ... just copied from another cotton train
12:13:53  <coopserver> <Anson> watch what happend when the trains return ...
12:15:12  <coopserver> <Anson> if all platforms are used and all 2way signals are red, the train "evades" the red signals and goes to the reverser
12:15:39  <coopserver> <Anson> from there, it can only go to the depot, and then has to wait there until a signal turns green again
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12:16:52  <coopserver> <Yianni> Oh ok, that makes sene
12:16:57  <coopserver> <Yianni> *sense
12:18:12  <coopserver> <Anson> some people don't like networks with overflow depots, and if you have built it nice, with an entrance rail that has enough space for 1 or 2 trains at least, you probably don't need one ... but i like them, taking care of unexpected events, avoiding queues and jams
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12:18:56  <coopserver> <Anson> on the wiki, there are several pages and also some blogs about stations and overflows
12:19:55  <coopserver> <Anson> some of them are rather old (5+ years) and thus not the "state of the art" ... but there are lots of useful hints
12:20:17  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ok,thanks for the tip(s) :D
12:21:38  <coopserver> <Cameron> 1.6 millin hp train
12:21:46  <coopserver> <Cameron> train 22
12:21:53  <coopserver> <Anson> look at the sign "SLH001" and "SLH002" ... those are SideLineHubs ... connecting a mainline with the sideline where i connected the new station
12:22:06  <coopserver> <Cameron> I'm bored, and tir...
12:22:47  <coopserver> <Anson> goal of those SLH is to have no level crossings, but only splits and merges
12:23:35  <coopserver> <Yianni> They all look impressive!
12:23:46  <coopserver> <Anson> so that the mainline has priority, trains on the ML won't ever stop (almost), and trains from the sideline will merge onto the ML when there is enough space for them
12:25:25  <coopserver> <Anson> BBH is the big brother of the SLH ... it connects mainlines with each other and thus is bigger and more complicated
12:27:49  <coopserver> <Anson> and at the end of one such mainline is a big drop station (and pickup for its produced goods) ... in our network, one such station is Sindbury Candy Resource West ... but it is really messy since it was not well planned, built at a location with not enough space for expansion
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12:29:22  <coopserver> <Yianni> But it still flows quite well?
12:29:44  <coopserver> <Anson> later it became even more messy when i started to replace TL3 trains with TL12 trains on the same network .... something which is rarely done and i wanted to test that on this map
12:30:02  <coopserver> <Yianni> They look cool though :P
12:30:17  <coopserver> <Yianni> and over 1 million profit! wow
12:30:22  <coopserver> <Anson> if you want to see really huge stations, go to the public server, or get some savegames from the archive at the wiki
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12:31:04  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
12:31:21  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
12:32:42  <coopserver> <Anson> there are 127 trains which deliver their cargo at those two stations ... 92 of them at Sindbury West alone
12:33:28  <coopserver> <Yianni> Wow
12:33:34  <coopserver> <Anson> total number of trains around 300 ... and that is not possible with such level crossings where trains stop each other all the time
12:33:52  <coopserver> <Yianni> absolutely
12:34:43  <coopserver> <Anson> on the public server, there is only one company and all people work together ... those networks easily have 700-1000 or more trains, and the maximum which is hardcoded in ottd was also reached some time : 5000
12:35:28  <coopserver> <Yianni> Good god,
12:35:58  <coopserver> <Yianni> I imagine the entire map to just be track :P
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12:36:24  <coopserver> <Anson> those maps often are bigger than this one
12:36:54  <coopserver> <Anson> but even on a map like this one, 1000 trains would be no problem when all people have a single company
12:37:55  <coopserver> <Anson> the biggest hub that i saw (and built part of it) was for a crossing of two mainlines, each with 7 lanes in each direction (4x7 incoming and 4x7 outgoing) :-)
12:38:23  <coopserver> <Yianni> phwoar,
12:38:57  <coopserver> <Yianni> much junction, very big, such amaze
12:38:59  <coopserver> <Yianni> :D
12:39:41  <coopserver> <Anson> the first 4 or 5 lanes were connected "all to all", allowing trains from any incoming laneto go to any outgoing lane ... later 2 more were added which only were "all to all" among themselves, and "all to some" with the others ... that hub was something like 128x128 tiles :-)
12:40:35  <coopserver> <Anson> but those games run for a lot longer time than the maps on this server, and many people work together on a single company
12:40:54  <coopserver> <Yianni> That makes sense
12:41:19  <coopserver> <Yianni> I imagine people get given sections to work on, and that becomes 'theirs'
12:43:09  <coopserver> <Anson> those games start by looking at the map, inventing some plan what to do, and then vioting for those plans
12:43:38  <coopserver> <Anson> that can take from a few hours to a few days until building starts
12:44:30  <coopserver> <Anson> during all that time, some money maker is running to have enough money for building the big net
12:44:49  <coopserver> <Yianni> That's a lot of coordination! and thanks for saving me :D
12:45:21  <coopserver> <Anson> then some people build mainlines first to have the skeleton of the network, followed by the drop stations .... and finally some sidelines that are used to collect the resources
12:47:11  <coopserver> <Anson> those maps are mostly for building huge networks ... money is not important when there is a big network, and terraforming usually is cheap too since people there are reasonable and won't flatten entire mountains or create continents from the sea
12:49:04  <coopserver> <Anson> i like to look at networks like you had before, with lots of small lines and lots of connections ... althogh such networks will easily break when you get more trains and more cargo later in the game
12:50:29  <coopserver> <Yianni> Indeed, as mind did
12:51:04  <coopserver> <Anson> but when you build like you did now, trains will slow down a lot at tight corners, thus taking more time and earning less, and most of all also blocking other trains behind them, causing jams when there are more trains ...
12:52:19  <coopserver> <Anson> avoid curves with CL0.5 ... CL = curve length = distance between two 45 degree turns which turn in the same direction ... trains will be slowed to only 88 kph
12:53:40  <coopserver> <Yianni> ahh, I see
12:53:55  <coopserver> <Anson> example : at sign !better curves" you have only an S-bend now which doesn't slow down trains at all
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12:54:31  <coopserver> <Anson> since it is a 45 degree left and one right, it is no CL, but an S-bend
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13:01:25  <coopserver> <Anson> on most networks, a signal spacing of 2 is used, no matter what the train length
13:02:16  <coopserver> <Yianni> Let's give that a try
13:02:52  <coopserver> <Anson> that allows for smaller gaps between trains, and 1 would be best, except that the largest gap on a track determines the density of trains, and that is 2 at least since every split or merge causes a gap of 2+
13:17:50  <coopserver> <Yianni> Thanks for your help! I need to go now, will be back soon!
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13:29:18  <coopserver> <Firestar> hai
13:29:31  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, fire
13:29:40  <coopserver> <Anson> how do you like the new trains ? .-)
13:30:03  <coopserver> <Firestar> pretty nice but i dont really care bout the new trains
13:30:15  <coopserver> <Anson> TL12 :-)
13:30:16  <coopserver> <Firestar> i care bout how the network ist doing its job ;)
13:32:01  <coopserver> <Anson> we had 60+ candy trains which couldn't keep up with production ... 3000+ candy piled up at the pickup, and only at 30% rating
13:32:48  <coopserver> <Anson> now with the new trains, the network is used even a little less, and less is piling up, while at 60% rating (double amoungt of candy transported)
13:33:37  <coopserver> <Anson> but it is difficult to have those long trains between other trains, and most of all where they split and merge at pickup and drop
13:34:11  <coopserver> <Firestar> at least its not causing traffic jams yet
13:34:22  <coopserver> <Firestar> so its not a problem till then
13:34:57  <coopserver> <Firestar> btw you could make some XXL trains for the fizzy drinks too to avoid bad ratings
13:35:44  <coopserver> <Anson> i have sent all the old candy trains to a depot ... let's test and exchange them for the long trains
13:36:37  <coopserver> <Anson> long trains go to the depot now and short come out of the depot
13:38:22  <coopserver> <Anson> maybe we should try that on the next map ... mainline with max TL only ... and instead of hubs to sidelines, using transfer stations which collect from TL3 and send TL12
13:41:10  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : i use 4 engines only for the TL12 ... that would be single engines for 4 trains of TL3 instead
13:42:14  <coopserver> <Anson> thus requiring 4 tinmes as many trains, and carry 4x140 = 560 only, instead of 700 on the long trains
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13:42:52  <coopserver> <Firestar> hey anson try making some more of those TL12 trains for the candy just made some long stations for them
13:45:17  <coopserver> <Anson> check the stations ... you messed it up a bit
13:45:29  <coopserver> <Anson> some tiles of the long platforms belong to the EAST station
13:48:45  <coopserver> <Anson> why are you making short stations now ?
13:52:17  <coopserver> <Firestar> ye well when the next game starts  here lets try those XXL trains in our own company kay?
13:52:49  <coopserver> <Anson> don't know when that will be and how much time i will have
13:53:31  <coopserver> <Anson> why did you change the stations to short platforms again ?
13:56:33  <coopserver> <Firestar> did you write smth?
13:56:40  <coopserver> <Firestar> couldnt read it sry
13:57:00  <coopserver> <Anson> i just added a platform at the drop
13:57:07  <coopserver> <Firestar> kay
13:58:50  <coopserver> <Anson> the rating for candy pickup is between 20% and 30% now ... and 60 short trains ... that would correspond to 12 long trains for the same capacity, and the network looked less filled with 25 long trains than now with the 60 short
13:59:13  <coopserver> <Anson> and we would have to double their number to 120+ trains to have the same capacity
13:59:50  <coopserver> <Firestar> we could try to transform the candy pickup trains to tl12 and maybe save some of the ratings again
13:59:52  <coopserver> <Anson> look how jammed the network is now :-)
14:00:33  <coopserver> <Firestar> i know thats because i accidently crashed two trains
14:01:05  <coopserver> <Anson> but it was almost jammed anyway, with all those short trains
14:01:31  <coopserver> <Firestar> but with long trains it would be jammed and we would have had to make it LLLRRR
14:01:38  <coopserver> <Firestar> the ML i mean
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14:01:50  <coopserver> <Anson> i have to take a short break ... biobreak for food and for the opposite too :-) ... will be back in maybe 15 minutes ... and then do the test with more long trains !?
14:02:14  <coopserver> <Firestar> ye we could try it
14:02:18  <coopserver> <Firestar> in the mean time
14:02:33  <coopserver> <Firestar> im gonna try and make the ML to LLLRRR
14:02:37  <coopserver> <Firestar> kay?
14:03:22  <coopserver> <Anson> 12 long trains correspond to the capacity of 60 short trains, but even with 25 long trains the network will be less filled ... i think :-)
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14:57:11  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Hihi
14:57:35  <coopserver> <Anson> it's xmas ... thus it should be HoHoHo :-)
14:57:50  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Haha, well it's a little late for that
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16:03:24  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi  MrD2DG
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16:25:30  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
16:25:34  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
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16:32:29  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi  Vinnie
16:32:32  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hey
16:33:01  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> how  things
16:33:06  <coopserver> <Vinnie> good
16:33:11  <coopserver> <Vinnie> and with you?
16:33:14  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> good
16:34:07  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has joined company #4
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16:38:00  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> did   the  server  whent  of  line  be  cours  the  trsan
16:38:10  <coopserver> <Vinnie> i dont know
16:38:26  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> the  tran  cost to run  is  ver  hi
16:38:33  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> heem k
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16:39:48  <coopserver> <Vinnie> inflation maybe
16:39:56  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> heem   yer
16:40:01  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
16:40:02  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
16:40:03  <coopserver> <Vinnie> hi
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16:45:10  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> eney  way    be  back  later  just  cume  and  chek  my  net  werk  and is  all  goof
16:45:13  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> good
16:45:21  <coopserver> <Vinnie> looks nice :)
16:45:55  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> yep   fill  free  to   join
16:46:25  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> bb
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16:46:33  <coopserver> <Vinnie> cu
16:47:21  <happy_> i  think   my  sweet  drop of  needs  to  be   biger
16:47:30  <happy_> bur  looks  nice
16:48:26  <happy_> i  be  back  in  the  irc  in a minte
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17:25:22  <happy__> hi jam
17:28:30  <Jam35> hi
17:28:59  <happy__> how things jam
17:33:46  <Jam35> fine how's you?
17:34:42  <happy__> good
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18:31:48  <coopserver> <Player> !name Ronnie
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18:42:37  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo ... how do you stay awake while replacing trains and waiting two years to finish that ? :-)
18:43:31  <happy_> hi anson
18:45:52  <coopserver> <Anson> in case that someone from happy's company reads this : the sweet trains are short again to see how much load they do on the network ... currently 60 x TL3 = 60 x 140 bags = 8400 bags ... and the sweets line is almost full
18:52:34  <coopserver> <Anson> you can look at the delivered cargo graph, and at the station info for candy pickup : 2000-4000 bags waiting, and with station rating only 20-30% ...
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19:00:22  <coopserver> <Anson> since ottd has cargodist in trunk now for version 1.4+, the station shows "monthly supply and local rating: 1650 / poor (29%)"
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19:02:22  <happy_> anson the sweet factroy drop of needs to be biger
19:10:06  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, but will we do it on this map or wait for the next one ?
19:10:37  <Anson> !date
19:10:37  <coopserver> Jul 07 2090
19:13:35  <happy_> hemm ok is all the fizzy trans ok be cours  ther ar sume in the  deport at the drop of
19:14:44  <coopserver> <Anson> there are two sets of sweet trains, 60 small and 30 long, and one set is in the depot while the other is used
19:16:12  <happy_> k
19:22:57  <happy_> i try to bee on the server at 9:00pm  but my internet was  slow larst night so but i.bee on the irc still
19:23:50  <coopserver> <Anson> do you want to have a look now, before i switch the sets back from those 60 TL3 to the 30 TL12
19:24:46  <happy_> ok give me a minte
19:25:46  <happy_> i have a  look be for udoo that
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19:26:22  <coopserver> <Anson> i am on the phone and waiting to do the two clicks for exchanging ...
19:26:58  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> i see  the   sweet  trans
19:28:24  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> ok  u can  swich  now
19:28:33  <coopserver> <Anson> look at the station window of the candy pickup and at the delivered cargo graph ... and how full the mainline is
19:28:48  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> yer
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19:30:11  <coopserver> <Anson> switchibng now ... at the depots near the sweet drop
19:31:00  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
19:31:03  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> u  can  swich  the sweet  trans     if  u whont    i got to  go  and       play   a  war  game  be  back    at   9  pm
19:31:08  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
19:31:20  <coopserver> <Anson> switching already started ...
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19:31:58  <coopserver> <Muel> when you give newgame ?
19:32:11  <happy_> if u need me i ber on the irc
19:33:11  <happy_> not me i can not
19:33:37  <happy_> u need to arsk jam or v
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19:41:26  <coopserver> <Firestar> hai
19:41:34  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
19:41:46  <happy_> hi
19:42:07  <coopserver> <Firestar> ey happy why dont you come ingame too?
19:42:38  <happy_> i will soon
19:42:48  <coopserver> <Anson> switch done ... noiw using the 30 long trains only
19:43:04  <coopserver> <Firestar> good
19:43:32  <happy_> my.internet is slow so i.have to.wate
19:43:33  <coopserver> <Firestar> and sry for leaving before i had to go and help my friend installing windows 7
19:43:52  <happy_> thats ok
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19:44:03  <Firestar> t/nickserv identify MrShadow1617
19:44:43  <coopserver> <Firestar> at last im indentified in irc too
19:45:11  <coopserver> <Firestar> damn we have enough money to be able to play a PSG round with it xD
19:45:38  <happy_> true
19:46:43  <happy_> anson did the server whent.of  line latst night be cours the trans cost is hi
19:47:58  <coopserver> <Anson> back from phone now
19:48:10  <coopserver> <Anson> this map is with inflation on
19:49:00  <coopserver> <Anson> i think it will rise until 2050 (end of original ttd games) ... you can also see the high max loan
19:49:24  <happy_> but that was not.on when the map  start
19:50:41  <coopserver> <Anson> it was ... but you only see it after the first 1 or 2 years, and even then won't notice it, except for a max loan of 2200000 instead of 2000000
19:51:16  <happy_> ar i see
19:52:25  <coopserver> <Anson> the two train sets are exchanged now ... the other was 60 TL3, transporting 60x140=8400 bags, and having 2000-4000 bags waiting at the pickup, with rating 20-30%
19:54:05  <coopserver> <Anson> now we have 30 TL12 trains, with 30x700=21000 capacity, and again waiting 2000-4000 bags, but now at more than double production of almost 70% ... and the station window shows monthly supply and rating at 3500 / 65% instead of 1500 / 25% ...
19:54:28  <coopserver> <Anson> but the tracks look more empty than before with twice as many short trains :-)
19:55:27  <coopserver> <Anson> you can also look at the delivered cargo graph and the profit graph to see the difference between the short and the big trains
19:55:51  <coopserver> <Firestar> i just made a new tl12 8 platform station for the fizzy drinks
19:56:26  <coopserver> <Firestar> and it could use some tl12 trains too
19:56:30  <happy_> nice
19:56:44  <coopserver> <Firestar> around 1.5k fizzy drinks waiting there
19:57:27  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : when i did the last autoreplace from medium 8 to medium 9, we giot some bad jams and even a deadlock :-(
19:58:02  <coopserver> <Firestar> well i gtg now cya tomorrow evening
19:58:18  <coopserver> <Anson> two stations were rebuilt and one new station, all without depots nearby, and thus trains started going acrosss the whole network, and then were stuck as lost trains
19:58:22  <coopserver> <Firestar> oh ye that long pickup is a seperate station the game wont allow m e to connec it
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19:58:54  <coopserver> <Anson> i used TL12 since station spread is 12
19:59:18  <Firestar> i  disconnected that staion network for now work out how it can be made useful kay?
19:59:19  <Firestar> cya
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20:00:20  <coopserver> <Anson> when we really want to switch from one to the other, a station can be deleted, and a new station nearby can be built while holding CTRL
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20:01:04  <coopserver> <Anson> but you need to watch out for the local rating with the nearest town, so that you are not suddenly stuck without the old station and with the new station disallowed by local authorities
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20:01:33  <coopserver> <Anson> that happens easily when doing some TF to build a station of size 8x12 :-)
20:01:34  <happy_> true
20:02:31  <coopserver> <Anson> rating at Wintown (town next to the fizzy station) is now Appalling ...
20:03:11  <happy_> heem
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20:03:51  <coopserver> <Anson> best to delete the unused new station so that it gives no bad points for an unserviced station, but put down some markers or normal rails so that no industry pops up on the flat area, and then wait a few years ...
20:04:55  <happy_> just doo trees at the town
20:05:58  <coopserver> <Anson> after massive TF, a few trees are not good enough
20:06:25  <coopserver> <Anson> they help, but not enough to be sure that a new station may be built
20:07:20  <coopserver> <Anson> i just removed the new station, which has to be removed anyway, and there are only normal rails now ... rating should soon improve
20:09:13  <happy_> remov all trees at the town but yer thats true
20:10:07  <coopserver> <Anson> hiow do you remove only trees and not accidentally remove houses, rails or something else too ?
20:10:26  <coopserver> <Anson> lots of work, and still no guarantee for good rating
20:12:06  <happy_> heem i have a look  in a minte
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20:14:18  <coopserver> <Anson> the TL12 trains accelerate very well for their length ... and i am using only quad engines ... that corresponds to a single engine for TL3 :-)
20:16:34  <coopserver> <Anson> rating Poor after all the work ... is that good enough ?
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20:18:15  <coopserver> <Anson> very poor now ...
20:18:35  <coopserver> <Anson> deleting trees subtracts more points than new trees give back
20:19:06  <coopserver> <Anson> the trick is only that the points are capped at some negative value and you can delete more trees without lowering the rating more
20:19:49  <coopserver> <Anson> but when you are already at poor, deleting trees will first get you down to very poor or appalling and replanting won't help to go back to the old poor rating
20:20:18  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, now it is Good ... what did you do ?
20:20:43  <coopserver> <Anson> oh ... that is risky ...
20:20:53  <coopserver> <Anson> i never had success with bribes
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20:21:40  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> we  got  lots  ov muney    so  y  not  spend it
20:22:04  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> Well f.
20:22:12  <coopserver> <Anson> i thought that there was a limit how often you can fail at bribing in a short time ...
20:22:15  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> I don't understand that at all.
20:22:45  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> How the hell do my trains get stuck like that?
20:23:16  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> I.M.Legos:    the  tran  cost    is   ver hi   so     take  out  the  lone  and  fixs  that  trans  jam
20:23:40  <coopserver> <Anson> ok, rails should be connected now ... moving the station :-)
20:23:40  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> Even if i took a lone i woulden't be out of debt.
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20:24:26  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> To be honest the signaling is fine it's the AI that's killing me
20:24:47  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> i  will  give  u then   muney      when  u take  the  lone
20:25:05  <coopserver> <Taede> anson: also, only the first tree on a tile counts
20:25:16  <coopserver> <Taede> planting more than 1 tree on a tile doesnt have any effect
20:25:35  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> My hand is hurting
20:25:37  <coopserver> <Taede> where do you need approval rating?
20:26:09  <coopserver> <Anson> ctrl-click to pay back as much as possible at once
20:26:20  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> Oh.
20:26:44  <coopserver> <Anson>
20:27:00  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> How do i fix my problem?
20:27:10  <coopserver> <Anson> where is webster ?
20:27:35  <coopserver> <Taede> in irc
20:27:39  <coopserver> <Anson> that wiki page is named "Hidden Features"
20:28:14  <coopserver> <Anson> when i write a link here in chat, webster always looked up titles of web pages
20:29:07  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> try  sume   blok  sigmal   on  it  or  re  doo  it
20:29:16  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> i  .m
20:29:33  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has joined spectators
20:29:42  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> eney   way  be back  soon
20:30:13  <coopserver> <Anson> it is the old problem with level crossings of tracks
20:30:18  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has left the game (general timeout)
20:30:36  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> afk
20:31:20  <coopserver> <Anson> when i set up the sign for your deadlock, there were already two more deadlocks at other companies, one of them was fixed by an admin, and later that company got one more deadlock and went bankrupt
20:34:59  *** skyem123_ is now known as skyem123
20:36:11  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> that should be better.
20:37:30  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> T L O?
20:37:57  <coopserver> <Anson> signal directly behind crossing leaves space for no trains = length 0 :-)
20:39:38  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> To be honest i'm completly lost on this problem.
20:40:07  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> you're hints stoped my trains >_>
20:40:26  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> Signal AI is broked.
20:41:22  <coopserver> <Anson> you put a signal on one rail and no signal on the opposite rail --> the train made the signal red by itself
20:43:07  <coopserver> <Anson> you should try to have at least TL+1 tiles between crossings, so that you have enough space for a signal and an entire train ... you currently have 3 tiles most of the time, good enough only for a signal and TL2, while your trains are TL3
20:44:30  <coopserver> <I.M.Legos> I'm just ganna leave until next map
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20:45:53  <coopserver> <Anson> read
20:46:35  <coopserver> <Anson> they speak of good and bad waiting locations for trains ... with bad meaning that a train waits on a crossing ... just what you have on your network
20:47:00  <coopserver> <Anson> of course, the best solution would be to avoid that type of crossings completely
20:47:42  <coopserver> <Anson> and leaving and doing the same problems on next map won't help ... just as leaving and not trying to understand the problem doesn't help either
20:49:07  <happy_> true
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21:01:40  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
21:01:57  <happy_> hi
21:03:51  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, Y ... this time with a different color to have better luck ? :-)
21:04:19  <coopserver> <Yianni> Haha, you could put it that way, I guess :D
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21:05:31  <coopserver> <Anson> i tried to explain, and the signs for that are still there, near the sign "best solution" ... if you want to have a look ...
21:05:38  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Hi
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21:06:06  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, mr
21:06:18  <happy_> hi mr
21:06:33  <coopserver> <Anson> and happy: we now have a new working pickup for fizzy, but the drop needs to be rebuilt too .....
21:07:11  <happy_> k i see whont i.can.doo
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21:08:35  <coopserver> <Yianni> Anson, where are the signs that I'm looking for?
21:12:13  <coopserver> <Anson> look for the sign "best solution" and all the other signs near it
21:13:20  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : i just aded new long platforms to the station "Fizzy Drop" at Saningbury ... and that depot there also has the potential to cause deadlocks ...
21:15:06  <coopserver> <Anson> there is only 8 tiles space for trains that leave the station towards the depot, and the last wagons can block all platforms ... thus a train leaving the depot towards the station will stop and block the entry to the depot --> deadlock
21:15:27  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ahh yes I see
21:19:17  <coopserver> <Anson> to fix that problem, i made the track to the depot longer now, at least 12 tiles for the trains with TL12, and will count the tiles now, so that i can put a signal right at that tile where the last wagon will be when a train stops
21:19:50  <coopserver> <Anson> that will cause trains in the platforms to stop on the platforms and not advance and block the rails in front of the station
21:21:10  <coopserver> <Anson> moved a signal by half a tile so that it is now at the end of a waiting train
21:22:14  <coopserver> <Yianni> All makes sense now! :P
21:22:23  <coopserver> <Anson> but there is a second part to it too : trains should not start exiting the depot if they can't leave it completely ... and that is more difficult since there are two different waiting positions on the main track, depending whether another train is already waiting there or not
21:31:13  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, now we have an indirect  deadlock
21:32:15  <coopserver> <Anson> i released lots of stopped trains and thus they queue at the fizzy pickup station, blocking the trains that shall drop resources and produce drinks, and thus the drink trains are also stopped forever
21:35:09  <coopserver> <Anson> primitive solution : building a visible simple iverflow depot which takes those additional trains ... at sign "temp: simple overflow"
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21:37:05  <phatmatt> is there an archive of welcome server games?
21:37:27  <coopserver> <Cameron> there might be a way
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21:37:51  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> I'm sure there used to be one
21:38:28  <phatmatt> hmm
21:38:37  <phatmatt> it's no biggie anyway
21:42:13  <coopserver> <Anson> is there someone from our company ?
21:44:00  <coopserver> <Anson> i trusted that the new station for long fizzy trains would be good ... but it is too distant from the factory ... needed to cut it down to only 5x5 tiles, to get a dummy tile near enough to the factory to load anything at all
21:45:43  <coopserver> <Anson> we ned to move the factory, and then probably part of the pickup and/or drop station too ... or (since we probably can't easily move the factory), the long pickup station need to be moved again, back to where the old one was, with longer platforms and new access tracks ...
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21:48:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> wotcher
21:48:47  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Whaddup Jam
21:48:50  <coopserver> <Jam35> that means hi
21:49:02  <coopserver> <Jam35> alwight Dave
21:49:51  <happy_> hi jam
21:49:59  <coopserver> <Jam35> HI
21:50:08  <coopserver> <Jam35> GOOD
21:50:41  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Can coop if you want, haven't really played this game. I always join too late :P
21:51:20  <coopserver> <Jam35> hmm....
21:51:27  <coopserver> <Jam35> thinking...
21:54:24  <coopserver> <Jam35> PM the pass and if I think of something will do in a minute :)
21:54:35  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Lol cool
21:54:44  <coopserver> <Jam35> or do you have a plan?
21:54:52  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Nope
21:55:01  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> I just want to play a PAX game, been so long
21:55:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> so what's with the sweeties? :)
21:56:26  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> I didn't mean this game, this game is just me building for no reason :P
21:56:35  <coopserver> <Jam35> ah right
21:57:00  <coopserver> <Jam35> a pax game is a nice idea for new map
21:57:17  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Yup
21:59:52  <coopserver> <Anson> just chatted on IRC
22:01:03  <coopserver> <Yianni> Could you assist with this junction of mine?
22:01:34  <coopserver> <Anson> which one ?
22:02:00  <coopserver> <Yianni> Grendinghll Plastic
22:02:15  <coopserver> <Yianni> I say junction, I meant station
22:02:44  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> You need splits on the platforms lines
22:02:50  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> To stop trains getting lost
22:03:08  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> /trying to enter occupied platforms
22:03:20  <coopserver> <Anson> how such an overflow works :
22:03:55  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has started a new company #10
22:03:57  <coopserver> <Anson> on this server, a setting is changed and thus 2way signals might behave differently than in offline games
22:04:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> shorten the platforms by one tile
22:04:15  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> See: what jam just did
22:04:17  <coopserver> <Jam35> and place those tracks there
22:04:20  <coopserver> <Anson> that setting is to consider red 2way signals to be a dead end, or end of line
22:04:57  <coopserver> <Anson> when the pathfinder hits on such a signal, it ignores that path and selects another one
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22:05:28  <coopserver> <Anson> and when a train can't go to the first or second platform because of this, it will go to the next, which is the reverser
22:05:49  <coopserver> <Anson> then, from the reverser, it has only one choice . to go to the depot
22:06:53  <coopserver> <Anson> and then it will stay in the depot, since depots have implicit signals that match the signals outside : since there are exit signals, the depot has an entry signal inside and trains wait until one platform is free gaain and the 2way signal is green
22:07:25  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> The problem is the lack of splits, it stops things from working is certain orientations...
22:10:10  <coopserver> <Jam35> boom
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22:11:53  <coopserver> <Anson> yianni, still there ? .-)
22:12:43  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi sorry, I'm back
22:13:04  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has started a new company #10
22:14:34  <coopserver> <Anson> should be done now
22:14:44  <coopserver> <Yianni> ok, lets test
22:15:39  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hey hey!
22:15:52  <coopserver> <Anson> one last detail ....
22:16:17  <coopserver> <Anson> if trains get lost, they go to random direction and most often don't go into a platform
22:16:35  <coopserver> <Anson> thus they only leave the depot, go to the reverser, and back in the depot
22:17:01  <coopserver> <Anson> to solve that problem, add an emergency exit for lost trains :-)
22:17:50  <coopserver> <Yianni> Which would allow the train to continue?
22:18:28  <coopserver> <Anson> now lost trains will first wait in the depot, but when a platform is empty and signal is green, they can leave the whole station directly towards their destination
22:18:50  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ok, sounds good :D
22:19:30  <coopserver> <Anson> that "fork" at the end of the reverser is a trick for the pathfinder
22:20:02  <coopserver> <Anson> without it, the pathfinder would consider it to be a dead end and send no trains there, just like with the red 2way signals
22:20:32  <coopserver> <Anson> and with three impossible tracks, it would select a random, probably a random platform
22:20:44  <coopserver> <Anson> and then be stuck there, causing a deadlock
22:21:26  <coopserver> <Yianni> Makes sense
22:21:29  <coopserver> <Anson> but when a track has a split (the fork), it is no longer a dead end for the pathfinder and trains go there instead of the red 2way signals
22:22:23  <coopserver> <Anson> some people like jam also do such forks in front or behind stations, but that is not needed 99.9% of the time
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22:23:37  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ok, which would prevent the liklihood of deadlock - even more!
22:23:41  <coopserver> <Anson> about the length of the reverser : to make it as fast as possible, make it as short as possible ... 4 tiles for TL4
22:23:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> as MrD2DG said certain orientations/configurations will break
22:23:56  <coopserver> <Jam35> failsafe is to build them
22:24:11  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Better to be safe than sorry tbh
22:24:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> that exact station will break 25% of the time
22:24:48  <coopserver> <Anson> there can be a problem in 0.1% of the reversers : depending on orientation and whether they go straight or diagonal, a train could select the short branch of the fork and then only have 3.5 instead of 4 tiles length in the reverser
22:25:05  <coopserver> <Anson> in those few cases, you need to build it one tile longer
22:27:02  <coopserver> <Anson> on another map, i had such a problem and found that it broke in one of 4 possible directions, and only when the reverser was on one side and not the other ... thus it would be breaking in 1 out of 8 cases ... and on this map, all stations are working for me
22:28:18  <coopserver> <Anson> and i didn't need those small forks at a station at all in any game (at least until now :-)
22:28:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> hardly any of the overflows are even in use
22:28:57  <coopserver> <Jam35> you haven't tested them all
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22:29:49  <coopserver> <Anson> that strange behavior is NOT random ... it happens for specific rare combinations of direction etc, and then it happens always ... thus test it once and when it works, it will keep working
22:30:41  <coopserver> <Jam35> in any case I already put extra track on the majority yesterday
22:30:52  <coopserver> <Jam35> because one broke
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22:31:33  <coopserver> <Anson> if you take a little time, it is not too bad anyway to watch a train go all along a new track (or check it now and then) to see whether there is a signal in the wrong direction or some other problem ... and when the train comes back to the station, you will see whether the reverser works :-)
22:32:34  <coopserver> <Anson> when i did an autoreplace last morning, three of our stations were bad and sent trains to random depots, causing massive jams and even a deadlock
22:32:49  <coopserver> <Yianni> Wow
22:33:01  <coopserver> <Anson> cause was missing depots at two of them, and bad/missing orders to go to depots
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22:34:41  <coopserver> <Anson> with a depot right behind the terminus stations, or an overflow depot like i like to build, AND with the order to maintain (right after loading), they will never go to any random visible depots, but only to that specific nearest depot
22:35:45  <coopserver> <Anson> when the depot is missing or the order is missing, they get lost and/or go to any other visible depot and then can cause problems
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22:37:28  <coopserver> <Anson> reason : on this server, breakdowns are always off, and thus automatic servicing is also off by sefault ... EXCEPT when you do an autoreplace ... THEN it will be activated and trains go to any visible depots nearby
22:37:53  <coopserver> <Player> why would you want to them to go to a depot anyway? ah, there you go ^^
22:38:11  <coopserver> <Anson> but that also has an exception : when the train orders include any order to go to a depot, trains will only follow that order and never go to a depot automatically
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22:39:50  <coopserver> <Player> nice little deadlock there at the.. what's that, eastern corner?
22:40:05  <coopserver> <Anson> by adding such a service order (english maintenance, british service :-) you can decide when and to which depot to go
22:41:31  <coopserver> <Anson> player : where ? which company ?
22:42:09  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Yellow, evidently
22:42:24  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Also player you should probably change your name to something not 'player'
22:42:48  <coopserver> <Player> you're right, sorry about that
22:42:52  <coopserver> *** Player has left the game (Leaving)
22:43:15  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
22:43:17  <coopserver> *** Josta has joined
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22:43:20  <coopserver> <Josta> better
22:43:26  *** happy_ has joined #openttdcoop.stable
22:43:34  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> You don't have to leave to change name btw :P
22:43:39  <coopserver> <Jam35> !name Josta would do that
22:43:41  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> .!name YOURNAME
22:43:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> ^
22:43:51  <coopserver> <Anson> by sending trains to a nearest depot right after loading, i distribute all the slowdowns by trains that enter a depot and leave it again, to all the different stations, and trains rarely queue for autoreplacing ... most of the time, you can't see it on the graphs, just in contrast to having no such service orders and all trains jamming at few depots for half a year or longer, or even causing deadlocks
22:43:53  <coopserver> <Josta> i forgot all that stuff ^^
22:44:00  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> :P
22:44:05  <happy_> how the net werk  anson
22:44:50  <coopserver> <Anson> a default username can be set on the top right corner of the window where you select a server
22:45:00  <coopserver> <Josta> yes that's the way i did it now
22:45:07  <coopserver> <Anson> then you don't need to do it ingame and won't forget it :-)
22:45:23  <coopserver> <Josta> ;)
22:45:46  <coopserver> <Anson> !name simplename
22:45:46  <coopserver> *** Anson has changed his/her name to simplename
22:46:05  <coopserver> <simplename> !name "a name with spaces"
22:46:06  <coopserver> *** simplename has changed his/her name to a name with spaces
22:46:14  <coopserver> <a name with spaces> !name Anson
22:46:14  <coopserver> *** a name with spaces has changed his/her name to Anson
22:48:35  <coopserver> <Anson> ah, that deadlock on yellow is old ... i wrote those signs last night :-)
22:48:50  <coopserver> <Josta> guess he gave up ^^
22:49:08  <coopserver> <Josta> is there a way to make the chat history reappear?
22:49:13  <coopserver> <Josta> not using irc
22:49:22  <coopserver> <Jam35> `
22:49:29  <coopserver> <Josta> `
22:49:33  <coopserver> <Jam35> top left
22:49:40  <coopserver> <Josta> got it
22:49:53  <coopserver> <Anson> looks as if he tried to copy my overflow depiots, but didn't understand anything how it is supposed to work, and thus got a deadlock when the station got a bit busier
22:50:20  <coopserver> <Josta> appears so
22:51:17  <coopserver> <Anson> Yianni, did you see what yellow did badly at !deadlock ?
22:52:00  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yup
22:52:05  <coopserver> <Anson> even with the reverser properly connected, it might not work since the 2way signals work a bit differently than most people (including me) first thought ....
22:53:31  <coopserver> <Anson> the pathfinder does NOT see four red 2waya signals at once (at the pbs signal) and then send the train to the reverser, but it sees the nearest 2way, then the next, then the next ... and thus probably will go to the most distant 2way signal and be stuck there, instead of going to the reverser on the near side
22:54:55  <coopserver> <Anson> thus the reverser probably would be better on the left side of the station, and not that bunch of diagonals either ... that was also a suggestion by me, but only for a terminus station without overflow and reverser
22:56:03  <coopserver> <Jam35> what PBS?
22:56:13  <coopserver> *** Josta has left the game (Leaving)
22:56:23  <coopserver> <Anson> path based signaling
22:56:29  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
22:56:32  <coopserver> *** Josta has joined
22:56:32  <coopserver> *** Josta has started a new company #10
22:56:33  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
22:56:33  <coopserver> <Jam35> where?
22:57:04  <coopserver> <Anson> what are you talking about ?
22:57:26  <coopserver> <Jam35> you were talking about !deadlock: what PBS?
22:58:28  <coopserver> <Anson> ah, yianni, you want to test whether trains go to the wrong side and get stuck there, like i just described for the yellow !deadlock ?
22:58:53  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yes, sure
22:59:19  <coopserver> <Anson> oh, sorry, i meant the signal on the incoming track
23:00:02  <coopserver> <Anson> when it was a simple terminus with a pbs, i did the suggestion with that diagonal grid ... and then he rebuilt it with a bad reverser
23:00:09  <coopserver> *** Yianni has left the game (general timeout)
23:00:24  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:00:29  <coopserver> <Josta> what's the Purrr's for in the building menu?
23:00:48  <coopserver> <Anson> purr = PURR Universal Rainbow Rails
23:01:04  <coopserver> <Anson> just colored universal rails where any tape of train can drive
23:01:08  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:01:14  <coopserver> <Josta> rgr got it
23:01:17  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:01:18  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has left the game (general timeout)
23:01:39  <coopserver> <Anson> except for the new MEOW trains, the color is not important and can be used to mark sections of the net or whatever
23:02:26  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:02:27  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:02:34  <coopserver> <Josta> someone is having connection issues
23:03:07  <coopserver> <Anson> yianni just left with a timeout ....
23:03:21  <coopserver> <Anson> and mr too
23:03:36  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:03:44  <happy_> hi all
23:04:01  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:04:04  <coopserver> <Josta> hi
23:04:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> hiag
23:04:26  <coopserver> <Anson> happy, i didn't rebuild the fizzy ... it works, and someone else can rebuild it :-)
23:04:35  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:04:44  <happy_> how  things going
23:04:45  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:04:57  <happy_> k
23:05:03  <coopserver> <Anson> i will finish the drop for drinks, so that the long fizzy pickup can be used when someone does the rebuilding
23:05:22  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:05:28  <happy_> i see
23:05:56  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:06:43  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : three platforms per incoming lane are good enough for TL12 ... the first will have loaded and left until the next two have entered and the fourth is approaching
23:06:46  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:07:52  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:08:03  <coopserver> *** Yianni has joined
23:08:03  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:09:05  <coopserver> *** Josta has left the game (Leaving)
23:09:18  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:09:24  <coopserver> *** Josta has joined
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23:09:25  <coopserver> <Anson> WB, yianni
23:10:07  <coopserver> <Yianni> Thanks, dunno what happened there?
23:10:17  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:10:21  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has joined
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23:10:29  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Hmm
23:10:36  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has joined company #8
23:10:45  <happy_> wb mr
23:11:01  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Thanks, was I the only one that got d/c'ed?
23:11:03  <coopserver> <Yianni> You wanted to show me a test?
23:11:13  <coopserver> <Anson> yianni, you see the signs at your plastic station ?
23:11:19  <coopserver> <Yianni> Nope, same happened to me :-/
23:11:46  <coopserver> <Anson> where do you live ? same provider ?
23:11:53  <coopserver> *** Yianni has left the game (general timeout)
23:12:23  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> London, Sky Broadband
23:12:25  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:12:43  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Couldn't reconnect either, my net was fine though...
23:12:56  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:13:04  <coopserver> <Anson> we saw a few failed connection attempts
23:13:08  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:13:13  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Hmm
23:13:37  <coopserver> <Anson> germany, telekom, VDSL ... without problems
23:13:52  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:14:01  <coopserver> <Jam35> fine here
23:14:09  <coopserver> <Jam35> Southampton
23:14:16  <coopserver> <Jam35> (UK one) :)
23:14:35  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:14:51  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, Berlin, the german one, and to be more specific, the bigger one :-) LOL
23:14:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> wishing it was the Jamaican one
23:15:05  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Haha
23:15:20  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:15:28  <coopserver> <Anson> i once was in the smaller berlin ... really funny :-)
23:15:59  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:16:21  <coopserver> *** Yianni has joined
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23:16:21  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:16:33  <coopserver> <Anson> 1 main road, 50 meters across town ... 3 small roads, rather holes in the sand ... and that was the town :-)
23:17:06  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> :P
23:17:58  <coopserver> <Anson> i think that there are 12 or 13 towns with that name in the USA ... no idea how many in other countries
23:19:21  <coopserver> *** Wigal has joined company #1
23:19:48  <coopserver> <Anson> yianni, whwere are you from ? also from england/london, like the other one which lost con at the same time ?
23:20:04  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> The 'other one'...
23:20:16  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yeah, England and very near london
23:20:29  <coopserver> <Yianni> So it must be a 'localised' issue
23:20:37  <coopserver> <Anson> then the connection roblems might be local to the providers there ...
23:21:06  <coopserver> *** Wigal has left the game (Leaving)
23:21:27  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yeah, probably
23:21:46  <coopserver> <Anson> i wrote some signs for yianni, at the plastic station
23:22:29  <coopserver> *** Yianni has left the game (general timeout)
23:22:45  <coopserver> <Jam35> uh-oh
23:22:55  <coopserver> <Jam35> other one is about to leave
23:23:06  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> I keep getting the possible connction loss message :/
23:23:06  <coopserver> <Anson> :-)
23:23:10  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has left the game (general timeout)
23:23:15  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:23:18  <coopserver> <Josta> there he goes
23:23:31  <coopserver> <Anson> not only "possible", but very real now
23:23:59  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:24:26  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:25:09  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:26:16  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:26:25  <coopserver> *** Yianni has joined
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23:26:36  <coopserver> <Anson> WB
23:26:44  <coopserver> <Yianni> Haha, thanks
23:26:47  <coopserver> <Yianni> again...
23:26:47  <coopserver> <Josta> wb
23:27:22  <coopserver> <Anson> you just had loast con when mr said "i get the messages for possible connection loss ... which turned very real a second later :-) :-(
23:27:58  <coopserver> <Yianni> Haha yeah,
23:28:18  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:28:20  <coopserver> *** Benny has joined
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23:28:37  <coopserver> <Benny> oh man, toyland again
23:28:38  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:28:41  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has joined
23:28:41  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (connecting clients)
23:28:42  <coopserver> <Yianni> I don't get it, the connections fine throughout the  entire day, but now it's just died.
23:28:47  <coopserver> <Jam35> hey Benny
23:28:50  <coopserver> <Benny> hello hello
23:28:54  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
23:29:03  <happy_> hi
23:29:08  <coopserver> *** MrD2DG has joined company #8
23:30:44  <coopserver> <Anson> i had such problems some time ago ... first a connection loss and 5 minutes later complete shutdown of all my internet (which includes phone, internet and TV too) ... they did nightly maintenance (or service, for you british people) for 4 hours each nigght, for three days(nights) ...
23:31:16  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> My internet seems to be fine otherwise though, I can still browse etc
23:31:44  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> The only problem seems to be my connection with the coop server
23:32:11  <coopserver> <Anson> maybe different timeout settings in ottd and the browser
23:32:31  <coopserver> <Yianni> mmm possibly
23:32:42  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> That's true but my brother is also playing GTA online with no problems
23:32:50  <happy_> mite be
23:32:56  <coopserver> <MrD2DG> Anyway it seems to be fine now
23:38:08  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:38:13  <coopserver> *** Player has joined
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23:38:40  <coopserver> <Player> my eyes burn
23:39:16  <coopserver> <Benny> haha, yes toyland does that
23:39:32  <coopserver> <Player> replace it with mars or sth
23:39:35  <coopserver> <Player> see you then :)
23:39:40  <coopserver> *** Player has left the game (Leaving)
23:40:21  <coopserver> <Jam35> it's way better if you turn off the trees :p
23:40:30  <coopserver> <Benny> oh lord
23:40:36  <coopserver> <Benny> ive never seen toyland with trees on
23:40:43  <coopserver> <Benny> am i on mushrooms
23:41:01  <coopserver> <Jam35> the artist was
23:42:35  <coopserver> <Josta> still pretty ugly even with the trees off
23:45:58  *** Benny has joined #openttdcoop.stable
23:46:31  <coopserver> *** Benny has left the game (Leaving)
23:47:02  <coopserver> *** Jam35 has left the game (Leaving)
23:47:07  <Jam35> gn
23:47:11  *** Jam35 has quit IRC
23:47:15  <coopserver> <Anson> the artist of the trees probably was eating too much Haribo :-)
23:49:23  <coopserver> <Anson> I'm just doing a test run for a new XXL fizzy drink train .... with 700 (bottles?, barrels?) of drinks ...
23:51:08  <coopserver> <Anson> watch train 349 if you are thirsty :-)
23:56:57  <coopserver> *** Yianni has left the game (general timeout)
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23:57:53  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
23:58:11  <coopserver> <Anson> they should go to the olympics, for some kind of snchro competition :-)
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