Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 30th December 2013:
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00:06:05  <coopserver> *** Josta has left the game (general timeout)
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00:49:21  <coopserver> <Yianni> TC_X  You make sure you're using electric rail
00:49:30  <coopserver> <Yianni> to fix that junction
00:49:34  <coopserver> <TC_X> lol
00:49:36  <coopserver> <TC_X> thanks
00:49:45  <coopserver> <Yianni> Np I did exactly the same thing!
01:00:10  <coopserver> <Josta> later guys
01:00:14  <coopserver> <Yianni> cya
01:00:42  <coopserver> <Anson> back ... was afk while sending a set of long trains through the net
01:01:39  <coopserver> *** Josta has left the game (Leaving)
01:02:34  <coopserver> <Anson> loading times are terrible when the train doesn't fit :-) :-(
01:13:46  <coopserver> <Yianni> cya
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01:17:11  <happy_> hi jurrassic pack
01:17:30  <coopserver> <Jurassic Park> salut
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02:26:22  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> gn  all
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02:46:21  <coopserver> <Cameron> I have more toys to make Santa Clause go out of business xD
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05:14:57  <coopserver> <TC_X> have a good one all...going to call it a night
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08:50:47  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, Sam
08:52:16  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
08:54:27  <coopserver> <Anson> do you want to play, or just watch ?
08:54:47  <coopserver> <Muel> watch ... why ?
08:55:11  <coopserver> <Anson> for watching, i can recommend the chaos of having TL3 and TL12 on the same tracks :-)
08:55:35  <coopserver> <Anson> eg at the sweets factory
08:55:48  <coopserver> <Anson> and i am about to do the same for fizzy too :-)
08:57:11  <coopserver> <Muel> i know, when you have tl3+tl12 on one track it is nice
08:57:42  <coopserver> <Anson> one of the TL12 trains carries as much cargo as 5 TL3 trains
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08:58:13  <coopserver> <Josta> morning
08:58:26  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
08:58:45  <coopserver> <Anson> we had 60 TL3 first, and 24 TL12 seem to cause a little less traffic or at most the same traffic as those 60
08:59:20  <coopserver> <Anson> that would be twice the cargo for less jams
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08:59:59  <coopserver> <Muel> i see on "this"
09:03:19  <coopserver> *** Muel has left the game (Leaving)
09:04:21  <coopserver> <Anson> such an X can be useful and also very bad ...
09:05:03  <coopserver> <Anson> it is useful when trains are allowed to use a double bridge to be faster, no matter whether they come from left or right
09:05:38  <coopserver> <Anson> but bad when they start switching tracks all the time ... se "evil mode" on the wiki
09:07:33  <coopserver> <Josta> woops
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09:31:38  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello! :d
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09:32:53  <coopserver> <Gumili> !name
09:32:56  <coopserver> <Gumili> !rules
09:32:56  <coopserver> Server rules can be found here:
09:47:35  <coopserver> <Josta> later
09:47:42  <coopserver> <Yianni> Cya
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09:55:33  <coopserver> <Cameron> GREEN'S DEAD
09:55:42  <coopserver> <Cameron> sorry caps
09:57:50  <coopserver> <Anson> he has a deadlock for 2 days ... then he tried to fix it and still had a deadlock ... didn't understand how it happened and when i tried to explain, he said that he still doesn't understand and would come back for the next map and try again
09:58:11  <coopserver> <Anson> i doubt, that he automatically will understand on a new map ...
09:58:32  <coopserver> <Cameron> well, you gotta learn sooner or later
09:58:57  <coopserver> <Anson> you still can see all the signs that i wrote to explain it ...
09:59:09  <coopserver> <Cameron> yuppers
09:59:28  <coopserver> <Anson> is there anything better/more to explain what to do ?
09:59:55  <coopserver> <Cameron> idk
10:01:05  <coopserver> *** Cameron has joined company #5
10:01:52  <coopserver> <Cameron> well, we need a new map anyway
10:01:52  <coopserver> *** Gumili has left the game (Leaving)
10:02:26  <coopserver> <Cameron> dare she blows xD
10:04:05  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, an island just became available for a new company :-)
10:04:36  <coopserver> <Cameron> I have 372k toys, santa's in trouble now :-)
10:05:58  <coopserver> <Anson> didn't you deliver them yet ? Xmas is over for this year ...
10:06:11  <coopserver> *** Benny has started a new company #2
10:06:14  <coopserver> <Cameron> no :/
10:06:41  <coopserver> <Cameron> we need bigger planes and ship doe
10:06:57  <coopserver> <Cameron> and more trucks
10:07:07  <coopserver> <Benny> wtf
10:07:12  <coopserver> <Benny> is inflation turned on?
10:07:26  <coopserver> <Cameron> yes
10:07:30  <coopserver> <Anson> yes :-(
10:07:42  <coopserver> <Cameron> 2%
10:07:57  <coopserver> <Benny> :/
10:08:14  <coopserver> <Anson> no, i think the 2% is the interest rate for loan, independent of inflation
10:13:50  <coopserver> <Cameron> no inflation is controlled by interest rate
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10:33:59  <happy_> moring all
10:34:07  <coopserver> <Yianni> Morning
10:34:11  <coopserver> <Benny> hello
10:34:27  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, happy
10:34:35  <happy_> how things
10:34:46  <coopserver> <Anson> almost finished moving the fizzy station back ...
10:34:49  * happy_ slaps Anson around a bit with a large fishbot
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10:41:01  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> beback  soon
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11:58:00  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
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13:06:12  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi
13:06:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> hi
13:06:23  <coopserver> <Benny> hello
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13:23:40  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
13:23:43  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello
13:24:00  <coopserver> <Benny> hi
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13:26:07  <happy_> hi  alll  how things   going
13:26:25  <coopserver> <Benny> good, finally making money after fighting inflation for ages
13:26:44  <coopserver> <Benny> hilarious how im having more fun managing 10 trains here than 500 on an SP game
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14:35:30  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, yianni
14:35:40  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi :D
14:35:42  <coopserver> <Anson> problems with Prefingpool Bridge ?
14:36:40  <coopserver> <Yianni> Haha yes, I might have left it next to an industry for a while - with out transporting anything - and then the industry closed down :-(
14:37:25  <coopserver> <Anson> the depot is connected a bit strangely ...
14:38:18  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yes, I was a little limited in funds at the time and would have liked to lower the land
14:38:27  <coopserver> <Yianni> Which would have made it a tad more compact
14:38:41  <coopserver> <Anson> incoming trains need to be forced into a reverser if the platforms are used ... you have left two options for them: the reverser and the exit ...
14:42:33  <coopserver> <Anson> you can connect the depot to the platforms at "connect" ... there should be no connection between entry and exit (just remove the railpiece at "no rail") ... and move the X by one tile
14:43:26  <coopserver> <Yianni> Yes, I see - otherwise the train could just leave as soon as it enters
14:44:58  <coopserver> <Anson> it is always good to place the split for the reverser very near to the 2way signals
14:45:25  <coopserver> <Anson> that's why i use an X in front of them
14:46:59  <coopserver> <Anson> at Luntborough Woods, you have a connection from entry to exit ... one train just saw that the station is used and left
14:49:11  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, without that rail, trains go to the reverser now
14:49:27  <coopserver> <Yianni> good good!
14:49:35  <coopserver> <Anson> but you paid for it by removing the "emergency exit" for lost trains ...
14:50:25  <coopserver> <Anson> you can move 2 or 3 rails to get it more compact and have space for that emergency exit ...
14:51:20  <coopserver> <Yianni> sorry, brb
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14:53:43  <coopserver> <Josta> Hey guys
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15:43:18  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo ... WB, Yianni
15:43:23  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hi again
15:44:13  <coopserver> <Yianni> That was very close, I got one signal wrong which caused a deadlock, which almost bankrupted my company :-/
15:46:06  <coopserver> <Anson> that should help a bit :-)
15:46:13  <coopserver> <Yianni> :D thanks
15:46:25  <coopserver> <Anson> you have a lost train ...
15:46:53  <coopserver> <Anson> at sign "lost train", station Prefingpool Bridge Woods
15:47:14  <coopserver> <Yianni> Thans
15:47:41  <coopserver> <Anson> look at the other station nearby ... Luntborough Woods
15:47:58  <coopserver> <Anson> you can make it a bit smaller and it will work better ...
15:48:05  <coopserver> <Anson> see template next to it
15:48:25  <coopserver> <Yianni> Ahh, yes thank you
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15:48:41  <coopserver> <Anson> when built like that, it has an emergency exit for lost trains
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15:51:06  <coopserver> <Anson> WB again
15:51:24  <coopserver> <Yianni> thanks, the disconnection issues have started!
15:52:42  <coopserver> <Anson> since the two stations are mirror images of each other, you can do the same at Prefingpool Bridge Woods and thus will get rid of the lost train ...
15:54:04  <coopserver> <Yianni> Huzzah, I see
15:54:27  <coopserver> <Anson> no need to delete that much
15:54:38  <coopserver> <Anson> just move 5 rail pieces .-)
15:56:45  <coopserver> <Anson> done
15:56:54  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hey hey, looks good!
15:57:12  <coopserver> <Anson> and now the same for the other station ... nirrored ...
15:57:38  <coopserver> <Yianni> Indeed
16:05:01  <coopserver> <Anson> without connection from depot to platforms, trains will leave :-)
16:05:12  <coopserver> <Anson> one already did :-)
16:06:21  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, now i have a deadlock too ... wrong direction of signals ...
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16:32:18  <coopserver> <Player> !rules
16:32:18  <coopserver> Server rules can be found here:
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16:50:26  <coopserver> <Josta> whatup
16:57:46  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello, I'm back :d
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19:10:11  <Cameron> omg, my internet is on it's period again >.>
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19:21:51  <happy__> how the net werk anson
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19:32:11  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, happy
19:32:19  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
19:32:32  <coopserver> <Anson> how do you like the fizzy pickup now, completely rebuilt ...
19:32:47  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> ver  nice
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19:34:14  <coopserver> <Muel> hi
19:34:34  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
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19:39:51  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> anson  chek  tran 10  and     58    the  2 trans    can not  get out
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19:40:24  <coopserver> <Muel> happy tran  sport:  train 37
19:40:37  <coopserver> <Cameron> train 77 is also booped
19:40:45  <coopserver> <Muel> 114
19:41:02  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> yer   the  ml is  fall  up
19:41:18  <coopserver> <Arexander> Trains
19:41:24  <coopserver> <Arexander> Trains everywhere
19:41:38  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> and  ther  nufing we can doo  now
19:42:00  <coopserver> <Arexander> I'm dizzy
19:42:56  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, and the queues behind those two trains too ...
19:43:19  <coopserver> <Arexander> Umm, I found a weird track I do'nt understand
19:43:31  <coopserver> <Arexander> I'm guessing there's a reason for that bit too but I just don't get it
19:43:39  <coopserver> <Cameron> where?
19:43:45  <coopserver> <Arexander> At Dardinghead Cross Valley
19:44:24  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> the  net  werk    nneds  LLLLRRRR      and  then    the  ml    mite  not be  fall  up
19:45:24  <coopserver> <Arexander> So...anyone know the idea behind the track after Dardinghead Cross Valley?
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19:45:35  <Djanxy> !dl win64
19:45:35  <coopserver> Djanxy:
19:45:46  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> doo   asign  i  will  chek it  out later
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19:46:10  <coopserver> <Anson> ah, that reverser ... i built it :-)
19:46:18  <coopserver> <Arexander> Why?
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19:46:55  <coopserver> <Anson> with the reverser, the pathfinder won't find a depot in front of trains that are done unloading and want to do maintenance
19:47:04  <coopserver> <Arexander> Ah, okay
19:47:13  <coopserver> <Arexander> I knew there was a reason for it
19:47:18  <coopserver> <Anson> thus the pathfinder also starts looking backwards and finds the overflow depot
19:47:46  <coopserver> <Anson> and when the pathfinder has found a depot, it will also find a path to it, eg by reversing trains and sending them there
19:48:22  <coopserver> <Arexander> Right, so instead of the train driving miles for a random depot, it goes to the depot behind the station
19:48:49  <coopserver> <Anson> alternative would be to put a depot behind the station, but that would be visible to the entire network and might attract trains which have bad orders
19:48:55  <coopserver> <Djanxy> Cameron, ships need to run on Wetrails for full effect - they are penalized on anything else
19:49:04  <coopserver> <Arexander> Yeah, cue lost trains
19:50:49  <coopserver> <Anson> i had to experiment a bit to find this out : when a depot is known, the pathfinder finds a path, including to reverse first ... but for finding the depot, you need to either specify the depot, or some complicated rules are followed
19:51:32  <coopserver> <Anson> first rule: search forward for any depot on the entire net ... second rule : search backwards if none fiound on forward search
19:51:57  <coopserver> <Arexander> Btw, is there also a reason for the "arrows" pointing at the depot?
19:52:12  <coopserver> <Anson> the effect is strange : a train would rather go to a depiot on the opposite side of the network, instead of just turning around and going back two tiles
19:52:47  <coopserver> <Anson> you know that red 2way signals act like a dead end on this server ?
19:53:14  <coopserver> <Anson> thus trains will use any other path, and if the only path is the reverser, they will use it
19:54:09  <coopserver> <Anson> BUT if there is a pure reverser, without that arrow, it will also be considered a dead end, and trains still go to a random path, most probable a red signal at a platform ... and then are stuck and cause deadlocks
19:54:42  <coopserver> <Arexander> Okay, you just lost me
19:54:47  <coopserver> <Arexander> Heh
19:54:50  <coopserver> <Arexander> I'm bad at this
19:54:54  <coopserver> <Anson> with the arrow, the reverser will not be seen as dead end, but the red 2way signals are, and thus trains go into the reverser, then to the depot
19:55:04  <coopserver> <Arexander> Ah
19:55:06  <coopserver> <Arexander> Right
19:55:08  <coopserver> <Arexander> Got it
19:55:34  <coopserver> <Arexander> And now I feel stupid xD
19:55:34  <coopserver> <Djanxy> the arrow makes the train think t has more than one option when going into the reverser, which the pathfinder needs for it to function correctly
19:55:45  <coopserver> <Anson> it doesn't need to be an arrow, but any split of the line is good enough
19:56:06  <coopserver> <Arexander> Yeah, e.g. when the terrain prevents the arrow
19:56:10  <coopserver> <Djanxy> ye, will often see just one side of the arrow
19:57:39  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : i use those depots not only as overflow depots, but also for doing the autoreplace
19:58:18  <coopserver> <Arexander> Stop two trains at the station and the others will auto-replace when overflowed
19:58:25  <coopserver> <Arexander> Then order the two in station to maintenance
19:58:35  <coopserver> <Anson> having a service order on a train causes it to do maintenance only at exactly that order, and thus a "nearest depot" is always the overflow depot at the station entrance ...
19:58:57  <coopserver> <Anson> most useful since that causes all trains to go to different depots and not cause massive queues obn the ML
19:59:28  <coopserver> <Anson> no, much simpler to handle : look at order 2 of all trains
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20:00:01  <coopserver> <Arexander> Ah, right
20:00:30  <coopserver> <Arexander> So they will service only when they need to be replaced
20:00:36  <coopserver> <Arexander> As maintenance is off
20:00:41  <coopserver> <Anson> this server has breakdowns off, and thus also maintenance off. but when you do an autoreplace, maintenance is automatically switched on
20:00:53  <coopserver> <Arexander> Exactly =D
20:01:07  <coopserver> <Anson> and without any service order in the order list, trains would pick a random visible depot
20:01:13  <coopserver> <Arexander> Yeah
20:01:23  <coopserver> <Arexander> Cue lost trains and jams
20:01:31  <coopserver> <Anson> that's also why depots should be invisible to the pathfinder
20:02:20  <coopserver> <Anson> on the last autoreplace that i did, the network deadlocked with dozens of lost trains ...
20:02:26  <coopserver> <Arexander> Ouch
20:02:57  <coopserver> <Anson> because someone had built two stations without those overflow depots, and didn't do the service order for a third station
20:03:06  <coopserver> <Arexander> =/
20:03:31  <coopserver> <Arexander> There's a jam at TC_x's southernmost station
20:04:01  <coopserver> <Arexander> One-way path signal at a junction before station and two-way block signals in-front of the station
20:04:42  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, seems like he tried to copy my overflow depots, but used a path signal instead of the block signal at the entrance
20:05:01  <coopserver> <Arexander> Also block signals instead of exit blocks
20:05:19  <coopserver> <Anson> with the path signal, the 2way signals no longer have that end-of-line effect when they are red
20:05:27  <coopserver> <Arexander> Yup
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20:06:10  <coopserver> <Arexander> There's another station with similar setting but fewer trains and more space so no deadlocks
20:06:13  <coopserver> <Anson> 2way block instead of 2way exit signals would have a bad effect later :-)
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20:06:34  <coopserver> <Anson> they would allow trains from the depot to leave when no platform is free
20:06:35  <coopserver> <Arexander> Also the train orders are messed up, I think
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20:06:44  <coopserver> <Liuk Sk> hi
20:07:00  <coopserver> <Arexander> At least for e.g. train 72, servicing the other station with messed up signals
20:07:02  <coopserver> <Arexander> Heya
20:07:11  <coopserver> <Anson> and thus they would use the emergency exit for lost trains and leave the station ... and then they themselves would be lost and travel through the network ...
20:07:17  <coopserver> <Arexander> Yeah
20:07:37  <coopserver> <Arexander> Okay, pretty much every station that isn't ro-ro is messed up
20:08:33  <coopserver> <Arexander> I'm surprised there aren't anymore jams
20:10:10  <coopserver> <Anson> what is the problem with train 72 ? ... is is "goto depot" instead of "maintain at depot" ... thus a trip not needed, but shouldn't really hurt either
20:10:10  <coopserver> <Arexander> There's one station design similar to yours but with a half-arrow before the stations too
20:10:21  <coopserver> <Arexander> That order, basically
20:10:31  <coopserver> <Arexander> And the station is also messed up
20:10:36  <coopserver> <Arexander> But nothing serious
20:11:38  <coopserver> <Arexander> WRD Toffee 2 has a half-arrow before the platforms, do you know why?
20:11:49  <coopserver> <Arexander> RWD - Toffee 2*
20:12:25  <coopserver> <Anson> i think our ML is too crowded now ... we would need at least triple the double ML, and double the single ML ...
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20:14:14  <coopserver> <Anson> i don't know whether it was an old problem and is fixed now, or whether it is still a very rare event : sometimes, trains would have problems going to dead ends, even when the dead end was a station that they should go to ... the arrow in front of (or behind) stations fixes that
20:14:25  <coopserver> <Arexander> Huh
20:14:30  <coopserver> <Arexander> Never heard of it
20:14:38  <coopserver> <Anson> and some "old" players have the habit of using arrows everywhere
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20:15:49  <coopserver> <Arexander> Alright, I think I'll skedaddle for now
20:15:51  <coopserver> <Anson> i once saw a similar problem ... it happened only with one specific of the four possible directions, and only when the reverser was on one specific side of the station, and not when station or reverser were mirrored ...
20:16:07  <coopserver> <Arexander> Thanks for explaining stuff for me. =)
20:16:14  <coopserver> <Arexander> I'll see you later!
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20:16:57  <coopserver> <Anson> thus most peiple will never see the problem, but when it happens, it happens always ... i don't do those additional arrows but usually watch the station once to see whether it works ... and then it will work always or i can still add an arrow
20:22:23  <coopserver> <Anson> Cameron, why did you extend the station at sign "????" ?
20:24:31  <coopserver> <Anson> WET trains get a penalty of 30% to speed, power and TE when they don't drive on WET rails
20:26:03  <coopserver> <Anson> only MEOW trains get a bonus for driving on specific colors of PURR rails
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21:45:55  <coopserver> <Firestar> hai
21:46:58  <happy_> hi
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21:47:29  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> how  things
21:47:33  <coopserver> <Firestar> #fine
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22:02:43  <coopserver> <Anson> fizzy drop is not jammed by itself ... it is the mainline which is jammed everywhere
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22:20:59  <coopserver> <Firestar> cya
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22:41:41  <coopserver> Player: Please change your name before joining/starting a company. Use '!name <new name>' to do so.
22:41:41  <coopserver> *** Player has started a new company #11
22:41:41  <coopserver> Player: Please change your name before joining/starting a company. Use '!name <new name>' to do so.
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22:43:04  <coopserver> <Anson> i just finished tripling the ML between where it was triple already and SLH1
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22:49:00  <coopserver> <Yianni> Hello :d
22:49:03  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
22:50:40  <coopserver> <Anson> too bad that the third line ends at BBH1 and the merge still causes a jam
22:50:58  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> yer      true
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