Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 13th January 2014:
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01:30:17  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi  all
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02:21:20  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> gn  all
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03:33:40  <coopserver> <Ezequiel> un rre lag
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03:36:28  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, grif
03:36:45  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> lo
03:37:30  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> graphics lag now makes it hard to do anything
03:37:33  <coopserver> <Anson> since i wanted to modifiy my stations later, i skipped adding an overflow to the big drop/pickup ...
03:38:20  <coopserver> <Anson> and as a result, i got a deadlock while afk : too many food trains blocked access to the drop, and thus everything stopped, and the factory itself even died
03:38:40  <coopserver> <Anson> happy fixed it by buying me a new factory :-)
03:38:40  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> crape
03:38:56  <coopserver> <Anson> even before my primaries could die
03:39:21  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> you can place a factory were you want, I thought you could only prospect for somewhere random on the map
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03:40:51  <coopserver> <Anson> now i have completely rebuilt the drop and pickup, to work as refitting network ... but i still have to adjust train orders, and eg use the old food trains for grain and pigs
03:41:34  <coopserver> <Anson> I'm just looking at your tracks ... you replaced those many 2way pbs with block ... looks much better now ...
03:41:43  <coopserver> <Anson> at one place, you removed a bit too many
03:41:59  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> was it the Pinning bury food factory?
03:42:01  <coopserver> <Anson> at sign !sig, a signal is missing
03:42:32  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> OC
03:43:24  <coopserver> <Anson> Daston food factory
03:43:26  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> thnx
03:45:17  <coopserver> <Anson> there is always a dilemma when you build crossings
03:46:03  <coopserver> <Anson> if you have not enough space reserved behind the crossing, trains might deadlock, mist of all if there are several crossings near each other and/or in opposing directions
03:46:23  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> yes
03:46:31  <coopserver> <Anson> but if you have that space, that causes signal gaps which slows down throughput of the entire line
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03:47:22  <coopserver> <Anson> thus the best method is to avoid such crossings and build hubs instead, simple splits, and proper mergers, choices, etc
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03:48:06  <coopserver> <Anson> and having space behind a crossing makes only sense if you use pbs in front of the crossing
03:48:30  <coopserver> <Anson> else a train behind the crossing still will block the entire block of tracks
03:49:24  <GriffinOneTwo> yea I can build a hub, but terrain and terminating usually discourages me
03:49:42  <coopserver> <Anson> and when you have a simple merge of two lines, there is absolutley no reason to have space reserved behind that merge, eg next to SAN
03:49:42  <GriffinOneTwo> it happen its cheap enough on this one
03:50:21  <GriffinOneTwo> hmm, let me find that
03:50:35  <coopserver> <Anson> sign "no use for space...."
03:52:08  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> just to not block, perhaps two few signals sue to signal spacing
03:52:50  <coopserver> <Anson> you forgot that without pbs, even a train behind the crossing still blocks it
03:53:04  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> or are you saying that if it blocks it is of no issue?
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03:53:48  <coopserver> <Anson> without pbs, the entire block of rails is used by one train, no matter whether it stopped on the crossing or behind it
03:54:18  <coopserver> <Anson> and when it blocks the crossing anyway, you don't need to reserve space behind the crossing
03:55:52  <coopserver> <Anson> at A) trains which are on or behind the merge will block evrything anyway, thus no use for the reserved space
03:56:09  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> thnx for the advice?
03:56:25  <coopserver> <Anson> at B) similar applies : a train that waits there will still block the entire enry area of the station
03:56:33  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> IC
03:57:11  <coopserver> <Anson> without PBS, absolutely no use for that space
03:57:34  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> worried about jam there, thats why I would rather have PBS, on interchange at that station, it wouldn't jam as much
03:57:54  <coopserver> <Anson> and at C) you have enough waiting space for at least two trains ... which of course makes no sense, no matter whether pbs or not
03:58:43  <coopserver> <Anson> the current jam was caused by a single train waiting on the track at C)
03:59:03  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> umm I need the depo for overflow
03:59:30  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> BRB
04:01:51  <coopserver> <Anson> which depot ? the depot at C doesn't work as overflow depot anyway
04:02:15  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> it doesn't?  tthe next one?ey going to bypass to
04:02:53  <coopserver> <Anson> why would a train near C) take the penalty to enter a depot when it can continue on the track ?
04:04:21  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> do you have a lot of lag, or it just me?
04:04:35  <coopserver> <Anson> ah, had my sign on that rail piece ... it is a forced depot ... that might work
04:04:48  <coopserver> <Anson> would be a very interesting solution
04:05:10  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> they seem to use entry depot for overlow now
04:05:25  <coopserver> <Anson> to force trains in the depot and thus use it as overflow for SAN, and at the same time let trains pass to san heights
04:06:24  <coopserver> <Anson> but there is one problem : when a train for the next station (san heights) has entered the depot, it will only leave when at least one platform at SAN is free
04:07:59  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> can I put a pbs there to fix that?
04:08:57  <coopserver> <Anson> even when the path is longer, you might want to give san heights an entry path of its own instead of leading the trains through an overflow of another station
04:09:52  <coopserver> <Anson> i would think of a track like i marked in yellow
04:10:23  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> hmm
04:10:23  <coopserver> <Anson> first bypassing san, and then a dedicated track to san heights
04:10:34  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> I can try that
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04:11:05  <coopserver> <Anson> then you can move the depot back right next to the SAN station to work only as overflow there
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04:11:15  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> yoooooooooooooooo BALLERz
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04:13:37  <coopserver> <Anson> of course, a multi purpose station is a challenge by itself, and even more when it is in a town
04:14:19  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> it usually comes down to how I start off whith too little money
04:15:15  <coopserver> <Anson> that's whyt i hate too ... i have a nice plan but need to make money first, and then the monemaker (MM) is right where i would need to build the nice hubs and stations
04:19:04  <coopserver> <Anson> to make use of the new tracks, you still need to change the connection at the entrance to san heights
04:21:31  <coopserver> <Anson> at sign "change connection"
04:22:22  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> hmm?
04:22:29  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> at dig, do what?
04:22:36  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> err sig
04:22:50  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> oh that missing track
04:22:51  <coopserver> <Anson> first the connection of the track to san heights
04:23:59  <coopserver> <Anson> the signs "sig" all indicate missing signals right after splits or merges ... better throughput without those signal gaps
04:25:40  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, train 28 just took the new track :-)
04:26:48  <coopserver> <Anson> even though that track is a bit longer, it has much less penalties (the switches in front of SAN, and the forced depot)
04:29:13  <coopserver> <Anson> the new track is only for access to san heights, right ?
04:30:02  <coopserver> <Anson> then it might improve that path when you don't merge it first, before trains split off to PRI
04:30:46  <coopserver> <Anson> that new merge is faster than the old version through the depot, but not enough waiting space for trains that come from SAN and thus block the entrance area to SAN
04:31:12  <coopserver> <Anson> my suggestion : a bridge and merging aftzer the split to PRI
04:31:41  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> sorry got inturrupted
04:32:07  <coopserver> <Anson> NP ... you still can read in IRC or in the console
04:32:15  <GriffinOneTwo> I did
04:32:26  <GriffinOneTwo> I was thinking about a bridge there
04:33:18  <coopserver> <Anson> the road bridge should not be needed if you don't send buses or trucks there
04:33:55  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> who's lost Fruts?
04:33:58  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> *fruits?
04:34:08  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> ope not I
04:34:45  <coopserver> <Anson> in san heights are 260 pineapples
04:34:55  <coopserver> <Anson> 366 now
04:34:57  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> no, there is a company called lost fruits
04:35:01  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> they are jammed permanently
04:35:30  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe, i thought that "'s" was for "has" :-)
04:35:52  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> oh haha
04:36:03  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> TOO MANY PINEAPPLES WAITING
04:36:12  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> THEY ARE BORED IN THE STATION!!!!!
04:37:33  <coopserver> <Anson> other end of bridge needs connection ... i have removed the yellow indicator rails
04:39:06  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, that is possible too, and even avoids merging to the other line at all ... at the cost of a CL0.5 with speed limit
04:39:54  <coopserver> <Anson> but not severe problem since it is near the pickup station and no other trains can be slowed by it
04:43:16  <coopserver> <Anson> it looks MUCH faster now ... trains to san heights bypass SAN and thus leave more time for entering and leaving trains there
04:44:00  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> hard for me to tell with so much lag
04:44:40  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> sheesh, grain and food keep piling up
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04:50:03  <coopserver> <Anson> meech, thanks for the hint
04:50:20  <coopserver> <Anson> i was too busy with the other recosntruction to see that
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05:54:04  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> help I'm new here
05:54:06  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> !rules
05:54:06  <coopserver> Server rules can be found here:
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05:55:45  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> yoyo!!!!!
05:56:49  <phatmatt> the rules are 1) no planes or ships. 2) "Yes, I Can Build A Bridge Over Your Junction". 3) bend over for V
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05:58:43  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I like rule 2
05:58:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> and rule 3 when I'm only in a dress
05:59:00  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> DONT JUDGE ME :P
05:59:10  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> xD
06:29:46  <GriffinOneTwo> Ben Dover, I heard he was the life of you Parties?
06:30:42  <GriffinOneTwo> s/you/your
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10:54:38  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo
10:55:08  <coopserver> <Anson> i just started to wonder why i add more and more trains, and the cargo still keps piling up more and more ...
10:55:47  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> I have that issue too, till I have sill qty of trains for that station
10:56:55  <coopserver> <Anson> then i looked at the date and saw that it is 2110 ... around 2100, that happens often to me ... does production start to only increase and not decrease, or to triple instead of double when increasing, starting in 2100 ?
10:57:20  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> beats me
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11:13:05  <coopserver> <Anson> looking at the "delivered cargo graph" : increase from 15k to 20k ... that's a full 33% increase, and i didn't add more stations or new tracks, but only bought new trains to keep up with increasing production
11:13:34  <V453000> could easily be higher station ratings I would assume
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11:13:44  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, V
11:13:47  <V453000> hy
11:14:06  <coopserver> <Anson> it almost always happens to me around 2100, on most maps
11:14:32  <coopserver> <Anson> a really strange increase of production of the whole net
11:15:18  <V453000> it is especially strange to be dependent on date
11:16:02  <coopserver> <Anson> and why should the station rating increase suddenly ? ... if at all, it would decrease since i replaced a few of the short maglev trains by slower rail trains
11:17:04  <coopserver> <Anson> those trains have a bit more capacity, but that shouldn't be that significant, and also only apply to that one station where those trains drive
11:17:53  <coopserver> <Anson> if you could see my transportation graph, it really went up during the last 5 years by 33%
11:18:30  <coopserver> <Anson> we can check again on the next map ... between 2090 and 2120
11:20:11  <V453000> new trains = higher rating, more trains could mean the same
11:22:02  <coopserver> <Anson> the stations all have two platforms and waiting trains ... and i stiffed the overflow depots so that trains would be added when needed. waiting cargo was almost 0 all the time, and after adding more trains it was around 0 again, but needed more trains to transport everything
11:22:58  <coopserver> <Anson> rating is between 73% and 88% sinjce at least 20+ years when i bought statues
11:23:11  <V453000> well then the production increased or something, not like it matters :)
11:24:23  <coopserver> <Anson> for the first 50++ years, production seems to not increase at all, and starting around 2100, production explodes ... at least that is how it feels to me on most maps
11:25:27  <coopserver> <Anson> that's also why i sometimes talked about how nice it would be to have the lower limit of production capped in early years and the upper limit in later years
11:25:33  <V453000> I doubt it has anything to do with the year. It does however have to do with station ratings, most noticably train speed
11:26:53  <coopserver> <Anson> i got a new set of trains 20 years ago and stayed with that type all the time
11:27:17  <V453000> well it can take some time I assume
11:27:23  <V453000> [it generally does]
11:27:55  <V453000> I dont get why do you even bother with it though
11:28:09  <coopserver> <Anson> at one farm, i have small (TL1) feeder trains, and i recently converted them back from maglev to rail. thus speed went down from 400+ to 200 ... certainly no increase .-)
11:28:13  <V453000> you have enough to transport or not, Y/N
11:28:30  <V453000> 255+ kmh doesnt matter, read wiki
11:28:57  <coopserver> <Anson> until 2100 i could use more, but after 2100 i mostly have a multiple of what i can transport
11:29:20  <V453000> see, then focus on expanding network :D
11:29:46  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, speed bonus is capped at 255, but a speed decrease from above 255 to 196 certzainly will niot increase the rating
11:30:22  <V453000> obviously
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13:21:25  <tyteen4a03> !playercount
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15:53:49  <happy_> hi
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16:05:56  <happy_> hi
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16:18:02  <happy_> hi sim
16:18:10  <coopserver> <sim-al2> hi
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16:31:56  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Anyone else getting very bad lag?
16:32:00  <coopserver> <Berkel> no
16:32:05  <coopserver> <Berkel> everythings smooth
16:32:26  <coopserver> <Berkel> perhaps it depends on your hardware ;)
16:32:44  <coopserver> <Berkel> with my old celeron CPU i had also lags with so many trains running on a map :D
16:32:47  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I was perfectly fine at home.
16:32:57  <coopserver> <sim-al2> Core i7
16:33:01  <coopserver> <Berkel> ok ^
16:33:52  <coopserver> <sim-al2> I guess my school's internet has greater latency than I orginally thought...
16:35:05  <Taede> !dl lin64
16:35:05  <coopserver> Taede:
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16:40:24  <happy_> hi taede
16:40:32  <Taede> ola
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17:05:31  <coopserver> *** sim-al2 has left the game (Leaving)
17:05:32  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
17:07:55  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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17:08:23  <happy_> hi skyem123
17:08:34  <coopserver> <skyem123> hello
17:14:23  <happy_> how things
17:35:36  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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17:37:07  <happy_> hi syl59
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17:49:16  <happy_> hi jam
18:00:41  <Jam35> hi
18:01:16  <V453000> omg hy!
18:01:25  *** happy_ has quit IRC
18:08:10  <Jam35> you don't exist
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18:12:59  <V453000> oh
18:13:02  <V453000> okay
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20:01:55  *** happy_ has joined #openttdcoop.stable
20:02:43  <happy_> hi all
20:03:17  <skyem123> hellp
20:03:22  <skyem123> *hello
20:05:29  <happy_> how the pax going
20:06:28  <skyem123> overloaded
20:06:48  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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20:08:31  *** Djanxy has quit IRC
20:09:44  <happy_> doo mor trans at the town then
20:10:10  <skyem123> the prolem is that it is using road vehiles
20:10:47  <happy_> true
20:32:07  <coopserver> <skyem123> Tyteen transport is deadlocked
20:34:58  <happy_> ar  he got a password so  ther nufing i. can doo
20:39:05  <skyem123> I want cargodist on everything in the next map! :-D
20:41:58  <happy_> nice
20:46:50  <skyem123> poop
20:47:01  <skyem123> I just mess up my other stations
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21:02:08  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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21:18:16  <coopserver> *** skyem123 has left the game (Leaving)
21:18:16  <coopserver> *** Game paused (number of players)
21:18:18  <skyem123> Goodbye!
21:18:22  *** skyem123 has quit IRC
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21:21:34  <coopserver> *** BiG MeeCh has joined
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21:22:28  <happy_> hi big meech
21:22:29  <coopserver> *** BiG MeeCh has left the game (general timeout)
21:27:27  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
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21:28:19  <coopserver> *** RTM has left the game (Leaving)
21:28:21  <happy_> hi rtm
22:02:54  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
22:02:58  <coopserver> *** Cameron has joined
22:02:58  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:03:27  <coopserver> <Cameron> still this map??
22:04:06  <happy_> yep
22:04:30  <coopserver> *** Cameron has joined company #9
22:04:30  <coopserver> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
22:04:51  <coopserver> *** Cameron has joined spectators
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22:42:58  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
22:43:10  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has joined
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23:26:54  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (connecting clients, number of players)
23:27:00  <coopserver> *** Xall has joined
23:27:00  <coopserver> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:27:13  <coopserver> <happy tran  sport> hi
23:28:21  <coopserver> *** Xall has left the game (Leaving)
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