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00:18:06 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-194-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 00:31:26 *** stavrosg_ [n=stavrosg@athedsl-20144.otenet.gr] has joined #OpenTTD 00:33:09 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athedsl-16067.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:11 *** limon22 [n=Fire_Up@34-84-235-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #openTTD 01:14:18 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp83-237-234-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 01:27:53 *** Tobin_ [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:28:20 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B77327.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:32:40 *** limon22 [n=Fire_Up@34-84-235-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:49 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:11 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:40:15 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 01:46:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B77BD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:21 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:29:04 *** stavrosg_ [n=stavrosg@athedsl-20144.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:58 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:05:10 *** Tobin_ is now known as Tobin 03:47:58 *** Pingwincheg [n=schamane@p5498FCC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 03:58:15 *** dp__ [n=dp@p54B2F54E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:12:49 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2CBC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:50 *** dp__ is now known as dp-- 04:32:22 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 05:18:02 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 05:27:30 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:28:54 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:48:02 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has joined #openttd 05:55:02 <zen--> jey 05:55:05 <zen--> :) 06:01:47 *** Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Zr40 06:01:47 <CIA-5> tron * r4269 /trunk/water_cmd.c: We don't use GNU indentation style 06:03:49 *** Netsplit over, joins: Zr40 06:04:55 <CIA-5> tron * r4270 /trunk/industry_cmd.c: Rename some bogus map5 to gfx 06:13:58 <peter1138> morning 06:15:55 * Vornicus ponders that he has never actually /seen/ gnu indentation style. 06:16:14 <Vornicus> other than in works about indentation style. 06:16:30 *** Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:17:57 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:17 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #openttd 06:19:22 <peter1138> heh 06:20:45 <Rockj> how far has the AI in nightly build come? 06:21:05 <Rockj> more then vehicles? 06:21:26 <peter1138> it has hardly been touched 06:22:00 <Rockj> oh, I just noticed there was an aplha ai. hehe. 06:22:57 <Vornicus> there is an alpha AI which can take you to school on buses. 06:25:09 <CIA-5> tron * r4271 /trunk/ (smallmap_gui.c tree_cmd.c tree_map.h): s/\<TR_/TREE_/ resp. s/\<TR_/TREE_GROUND/ 06:25:28 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 06:26:29 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:31:26 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 06:31:39 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:43:22 <zen--> im thinking about providing SpiderMonkey javascript embedding to openttd 06:44:53 <Fujitsu> ... 06:45:17 <zen--> would that help custom AI scripters in the long run? 06:45:33 <zen--> or instead provide a com object 06:46:18 <Fujitsu> COM!? 06:46:43 <peter1138> gpmi will help ai scripters 06:48:48 <zen--> k 06:48:50 <zen--> :) 06:52:37 <zen--> c with constructors, instance methods etc would look similar to: http://zen.pastebin.com/639402 06:54:34 <Fujitsu> Why the .NET-generated code, zen--? 06:56:57 <zen--> refactoring, classes, synthetic sugar... compiled down to c 06:57:10 <zen--> note that the base class library if dot net is not used 06:57:54 * Vornicus gently points out that C++ was and essentially still is a set of gnarled preprocessor scripts for C. 06:58:08 <zen--> http://zen.pastebin.com/639409 06:58:09 <Fujitsu> :O 06:58:14 <zen--> the original source 06:58:18 <Fujitsu> It isn't, Vornicus! 06:59:03 <zen--> which is more straight forward? 06:59:12 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 06:59:20 <zen--> i bet the later 07:00:46 <peter1138> casting ints to int! 07:01:06 <peter1138> it's shit 07:01:25 <Fujitsu> Why .NET!? 07:01:39 <peter1138> get rid of all casts, and all redundant returns, and see where you are then 07:01:58 <zen--> redundancy will be removed later 07:01:59 <zen--> :) 07:02:00 <peter1138> (all pointless casts, that is) 07:02:24 <zen--> perhaps some inlineing and code analysis aswell 07:02:43 * Fujitsu gently points out to Vornicus that C was and essentially still is a set of gnarled preprocessor scripts for ASM. 07:03:02 <zen--> exactly 07:03:04 <zen--> btw 07:03:06 <peter1138> why are you discussing this in #openttd anyway? would #c or #msil (or whatever) be better? 07:03:18 <zen--> because i will use it in openttd sometime near 07:03:32 <peter1138> *snigger* 07:03:36 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82D97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:17:03 <zen--> removed redundant returns: http://zen.pastebin.com/639423 07:17:23 <zen--> now 07:17:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B77327.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:17:32 <zen--> you mean casting to int from literal ints? 07:19:36 <zen--> why .net? well now i can code at higher level and compile into native c, plus i get to write custom inline c or asm as i see fit in my .net source 07:20:02 <zen--> i wonder when the ms will be on the market with a similar product 07:37:05 * Vornicus looks through all that stuff. Wonders what the hell all these methods do, since they're named uselessly. 07:37:34 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:45:01 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:45:37 * Vornicus fiddles, decides that this stuff is useless because you have to go over it with a fine-toothed comb anyway to get rid of all the idiocies. 07:48:27 * Fujitsu thinks it's silly. 07:49:55 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.85] has joined #openttd 07:58:07 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82D97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:58:40 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B82D97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:43 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:16 <MiHaMiX> morning 08:09:32 <ThePizzaKing> morning MiHaMiX 08:10:16 * Vornicus wonders if ThePizzaKing delivers. 08:10:50 <ThePizzaKing> only if you pay much much dollar sign thingies 08:11:25 * Fujitsu eats TPK. 08:11:31 <ThePizzaKing> not again 08:12:37 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 08:16:07 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 08:16:19 * ThePizzaKing 's tea is ready 08:16:22 <ThePizzaKing> wooooooooo 08:16:29 <ThePizzaKing> and it's not Pizza 08:16:47 * Vornicus wonders if there's a money back satisfaction guarantee. 08:17:22 <ThePizzaKing> well, there is, but there are many conditions 08:17:42 <ThePizzaKing> 1. Only if you haven't eaten any of the Pizza 08:17:58 <ThePizzaKing> 2. Only if you payed twice as much in the first place 08:18:10 <ThePizzaKing> then you get the value of the Pizza back :) 08:21:12 <Vornicus> 08:22:07 <FauxFaux> 08:24:26 <Fujitsu> 08:24:27 <Fujitsu> 08:26:05 <Scia> 08:26:24 * FauxFaux 08:36:23 <Vornicus> :P 08:39:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 08:43:44 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has quit [] 08:52:13 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 08:52:34 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:52:35 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:14 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 08:55:26 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:57:18 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3D009.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:57:32 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3D009.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:57:33 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3D009.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:58:49 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:15:22 *** BurtyB [n=chris@cpc1-nwrk1-4-1-cust153.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:21:04 *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-195-75.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:21:52 <Sacro> Richk67: ping 09:23:44 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 09:32:18 *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-195-75.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["Sacro has no reason"] 09:36:37 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 09:55:53 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:13 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 10:14:08 <MiHaMiX> brb, reboot after 90 days 10:14:10 *** MiHaMiX [n=miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu] has left #openttd ["Session terminated."] 10:15:38 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@84-74-150-246.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd 10:17:37 *** MiHaMiX [n=miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu] has joined #openttd 10:18:13 * MiHaMiX is back :D 10:31:50 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176116183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:34:58 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:56:18 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 10:59:23 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has joined #openttd 10:59:54 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.229.137] has joined #openttd 11:01:37 *** sk [n=sk@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #openttd 11:11:03 <zen--> any good cvs clients for windows (vs05)? 11:11:48 <peter1138> tortoise 11:11:48 <Fujitsu> I don't know about CVS... SVN is more my stuff. 11:15:53 <zen--> openttd is using both? 11:16:10 <Fujitsu> SVN is what it uses. 11:18:23 *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight 11:35:55 <CIA-5> celestar * r4272 /trunk/ (npf.c rail.c ship_cmd.c station.h station_map.h): -Codechange: Moved the map-accessing stuff from station.h into station_map.h 11:40:14 <peter1138> *sigh* 11:41:56 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:45:55 <CIA-5> celestar * r4273 /trunk/station_map.h: -Fix: Removed a problem where trains would stop in the middle of a platform if there were both elrails and convrails along the platform 11:46:04 <CIA-5> egladil * r4274 /branch/32bpp/ (gfx.c gfx.h): [32bpp] -Make the blitter and sprite converter a bit more readable. 11:51:18 <CIA-5> celestar * r4275 /trunk/station_map.h: -Codechange: Use of map accessor functions inside station_map.h when possible 11:51:21 <Celestar> ok 11:51:26 <Celestar> me=>boss 11:59:42 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:01:23 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 12:01:32 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:05:20 *** J37- [n=gamma@70-57-153-59.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:17 *** J37 [n=gamma@70-57-153-59.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:51 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:16 *** raspi [i=raspi@phpfi.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:12:03 *** Morlark [n=Sean@host86-141-121-129.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:16 <MiHaMiX> hmm 12:17:19 <ThePizzaKing> MiHaMiX: Have you taken peter1138's job of saying 'hmm' at random times? 12:17:28 <Fujitsu> It would appear that way. 12:17:39 <Fujitsu> Although I took it for a number of hours on Saturday. 12:19:10 <MiHaMiX> ThePizzaKing: well, it's a shared job, I already sharing it with lots of people (including peter1138) for a long time :) 12:19:29 <ThePizzaKing> ah, ok then 12:30:22 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:31:35 <CIA-5> celestar * r4276 /trunk/elrail.c: -Codechange: Cleaned DrawCatenaryOnBridge a bit (requested by Tron) 12:34:58 *** tank [i=tank@meinungsverstaerker.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:35:00 *** tank__ [i=tank@meinungsverstaerker.de] has joined #openttd 12:36:41 <Tron> huh? 12:36:55 *** Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Bye all."] 12:39:57 *** glx [n=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:45:55 <black_Nightmare> hey glx 12:46:21 <glx> hi black_Nightmare 12:56:03 * ThePizzaKing goes to bedd now 12:56:06 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Don't worry, I'll be back tomorrow to annoy you then :)"] 12:56:17 <peter1138> hm 12:57:14 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:57:56 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 12:59:21 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Client Quit] 13:02:11 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 13:04:47 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:22 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/98 <= happens only on release builds :S 13:14:51 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@cl-1124.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:14:53 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athedsl-20144.otenet.gr] has joined #OpenTTD 13:18:12 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:18:15 *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ 13:20:57 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 13:23:45 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E767.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:32:18 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181108119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:42:02 *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater 13:52:44 <Darkvater> goddammit 13:53:05 <peter1138> morning 13:53:13 <Darkvater> STUDENTENREKENING -251,04 EUR 13:53:20 <Darkvater> my checkings account :( 13:53:23 <Darkvater> hi peter1138 13:53:24 <peter1138> o_O 13:53:33 <Celestar> Darkvater: ? 13:53:50 <Darkvater> some...eh slight money problems :s 13:54:03 <Celestar> nothing unknown .. 13:54:20 <Darkvater> this sucks, I never had a negative balance for the last 15 years 13:55:26 <Belugas> Does it mean you now have a gf? 13:55:57 <Darkvater> I'd wish. This is just me :( 13:56:51 <Belugas> Lesson I've learned : always pay with cash. All but car and house, of course :) 13:57:57 <Celestar> bah I can't believe that pylon drawing fails on windows :S 13:59:50 <Darkvater> Belugas: I hate paying with cash, such a hassle 13:59:57 <Darkvater> but I always took care of me money 14:00:08 <Darkvater> well, except now it seems :/ 14:01:54 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181108119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 14:04:53 <Darkvater> Celestar: got a test/desync-server running? 14:05:40 <Celestar> Darkvater: no. should I= 14:05:41 <Celestar> ? 14:06:03 <Darkvater> you know to test it :) 14:06:08 <Belugas> I hate using credit card (or debit card, same thing) becasue it gives you a false sens of financial securitty. With cash, you know what is left in your wallet, so you won't overrun your budget. Well.. that is my way of doing. 14:06:55 <Darkvater> Belugas: I only use CC to buy stuff on the internet. My cash card simply refuses to work if my account is negative, so that's ok as well 14:07:11 <Belugas> cash card? 14:07:15 <Darkvater> it's only when your monthly payments just deduct horrible amounts from the account 14:07:34 <Darkvater> Belugas: perhaps wrong name 14:07:38 <Darkvater> simple card with pin-code 14:07:53 <Belugas> Ho... Ok...here, it is a debit card 14:07:59 <Celestar> I have an overrun limit of 1000 EUR 14:08:21 <glx> my card ask my bank for each operation 14:08:40 <Celestar> ok 14:08:49 <Darkvater> yeah that's the debit card then I think 14:08:57 <Celestar> any objection to introducing FACIL_BUOY and FINALLY get rid of HVOT_BUOY ? 14:08:59 <Darkvater> pinpas for the dutchies :) 14:09:30 <Belugas> not from me, Celestar 14:11:54 <Darkvater> lol though 14:12:01 <peter1138> i should get a credit card 14:12:11 <peter1138> they're good for only one thing: increasing your credit rating 14:12:12 <Darkvater> I am buying an xbox 14:12:29 <Darkvater> I wonder how I'll manage that with my current balance :p 14:12:40 <Belugas> peter1138 : that is worth something when shopping for a house :) 14:13:04 *** zen-- [n=zen@mindware.ee] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:19 <peter1138> indeed 14:13:29 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 14:14:05 <Belugas> Funny : when I needed a credit card they all said : Yio don't have an history, blablabla... Then, when finally VIAS let me have one, everybody is at the door offering theirs. 14:14:12 <blathijs> I forgot my PIN code last week, so I have to do everything from the handful of coins I have left... 14:14:29 <Darkvater> blathijs: auch 14:14:36 <blathijs> yup 14:14:43 <blathijs> It took me 4 days to remember it 14:14:55 <Darkvater> what was it? 14:15:16 <Darkvater> I bet you remembered ONE number on each day 14:15:20 <Darkvater> ^^ 14:15:33 <blathijs> nope 14:15:43 <blathijs> I remembered that it was "something with a 7" 14:16:01 <Darkvater> go on ;) 14:16:26 <blathijs> And after the first 2 desperate tries, I thought, "Okay, now only one more try, I have to be absolutely sure" 14:16:44 <blathijs> Then I remembered, and punched in 3756 14:16:49 <blathijs> which blocked my card 14:16:57 <Darkvater> :) 14:17:06 <blathijs> a few minutes later I remembered that 3756 is the telephone number of our study association 14:17:11 <blathijs> D'oh! 14:17:19 <glx> my brother had the same story with his card 14:17:38 <glx> needed to call the bank to command a new card 14:18:00 <blathijs> The weird thing was that I forgot it on tuesday, and had absolutely no clue about what it was until friday night 14:18:04 <blathijs> yes, I did that too 14:18:25 <blathijs> waiting for my new pincode now (I think I can still reuse my old card, since I went there physically with ID) 14:18:43 <Darkvater> that is weird. At ABN AMRO I just go to the bank, tell'em I forgot the pincode, identify myself and set it up there 14:18:46 <Celestar> you guys need to use that stuff more often :P 14:19:17 <glx> funny thing is that he thougt to call me to look in his papers and give him is pin code after he blocked his card :) 14:19:24 <blathijs> Darkvater: Rabobank is more uptight about security I guess. Dunno why... 14:19:43 <blathijs> glx: I don't have it written down anywhere, I mean, who forgets his pincode? 14:19:52 <blathijs> anyway 14:19:54 * Darkvater points at noone in particular 14:19:54 <blathijs> Breakfast./ 14:24:49 <Darkvater> blathijs: because it's a farmer's bank :P 14:29:00 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012]"] 14:31:14 <Celestar> \o/ no more HVOT_BUOY 14:32:46 * Darkvater misses CIA 14:34:54 <Celestar> well not committed yet. 14:34:56 <Celestar> still testing. 14:35:56 <Celestar> BAH 14:36:00 <Celestar> buoys need their own code. 14:37:02 <glx> buoys can be considered like waypoints 14:37:28 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:41 <Celestar> hm. 14:38:13 <glx> the problem is actually waypoints are railway specific 14:38:27 <Darkvater> and bouys are ship specific 14:39:17 <glx> I meant waypoint code 14:40:00 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:40:28 *** kujeger [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:40:33 <Celestar> I think a buoy should be part of MP_WATER 14:42:09 <Celestar> just like a waypoint is part of MP_RAILWAY 14:46:58 *** kujeger [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:33 *** ector- [n=meloditr@ygun.brg.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 14:49:42 *** ector- is now known as ector 14:50:38 <glx> yeah and there is enough free bits in MP_WATER to do so 14:54:08 <Brianetta> I need a new passphrase 14:54:51 <Brianetta> Something like hOwcbA4o9Dew&fhaK<7teAs=Ed( 14:54:56 <Brianetta> only longer 14:55:00 <Celestar> glx: the question is where to store it internally. 14:55:04 <Celestar> maybe waypoints. 14:55:04 <Brianetta> and perhaps a little less guessable 14:55:20 <Tron> <@Celestar> just like a waypoint is part of MP_RAILWAY <--- i think waypoints should just go away 14:55:33 <Celestar> Tron: you mean out of MP_RAILWAY? 14:56:00 <Celestar> they do come in handy at times. 14:56:41 <glx> in this case it's still possible to use a new tile type 14:56:52 <Celestar> YATT? :P 14:57:12 <glx> B,C,D,E,F are unused AFAIK :) 14:57:24 <Celestar> some will be used possibly :) 14:57:47 <Darkvater> I think Tron means that waypoints should be gone totally 14:58:05 <Darkvater> eg do not even have the possibility to build them even 14:58:11 <Celestar> Darkvater: and what should be the replacement for them? 14:58:31 <Darkvater> donnu, I'm not saying I agree 14:58:31 <Brianetta> Waypoints are important 14:58:51 <peter1138> there's always the ttdp way, heh 14:58:54 <Brianetta> I don't want some smelly freight train holding up my passenger trains 14:58:59 <Celestar> the TTDP way SUCKS 14:59:07 <Brianetta> What's the TTPD way? 14:59:13 <Celestar> using stations as waypoints 14:59:17 <peter1138> Brianetta: special stations that you can't stop at 14:59:19 <Brianetta> That way sucks 14:59:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B77327.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:31 <peter1138> it's better for one thing: you can span multiple tracks 14:59:40 <Brianetta> I like to keep orders lists short, and have "all stops" trains 14:59:42 <Celestar> Tron: you have come up with an alternative? 15:00:01 <Celestar> peter1138: waypoints can do that too, implementing it is rather easy imho. 15:00:34 <Brianetta> Are the waypoint graphics people keep drawing, based on signal boxes? 15:00:51 <peter1138> Celestar: ok :) 15:01:03 <peter1138> Brianetta: usually 15:01:10 <Brianetta> ah 15:01:26 <Brianetta> I keep seeing things like, "these are based on real waypoints seen in Germany" and so on 15:01:40 <Brianetta> and I'm thinking, "there's no such thing in real life..." 15:01:50 <Celestar> Brianetta: no waypoints. 15:02:09 <Celestar> but little checkpoints nearby railway crossings and stuff 15:02:16 <Brianetta> There's a railway junction near where I live which has a signpost telling you which track goes where 15:02:35 <Brianetta> Like the train driver can do anythin gabout the switch (: 15:03:32 <Celestar> Brianetta: he can stop and change it manually? ;) 15:04:15 <Brianetta> Celestar: Nope - it's not a manually operable switch. I think it's for track maintenance crews. 15:04:23 <Celestar> possibly 15:04:31 * Celestar gets reminded of his track maintenance patch 15:04:50 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 15:06:38 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 15:06:56 <Celestar> I also have a speed-limit-on-crossing patch 15:07:30 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 15:07:41 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:07:54 <Celestar> we must do anything about the different loco types. 15:08:03 <Celestar> I don't like people using an ICE3 for pulling around coal. 15:08:13 <Celestar> I don't even thinks it would work out. 15:08:24 <peter1138> there is a callback that stops that 15:08:31 <peter1138> but we don't support it yet 15:08:34 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:39 <Celestar> peter1138: when will we? 15:08:41 <Celestar> ;) 15:08:45 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:49 <peter1138> hmm 15:08:50 <peter1138> well 15:08:57 <peter1138> i'll see what i can do tonight 15:09:06 <Celestar> how many callbacks do we miss? 15:09:07 <peter1138> it may not stop it, of course, as it depends what's in the grf 15:09:10 <peter1138> most, heh 15:09:17 <peter1138> we only do a few of the vehicle ones 15:09:17 <Celestar> or rather: how much of newgrf do we miss? 15:12:17 <Brianetta> Celestar: UKRS encourages correct use of locomotive. I see people using Gresley A4s to pull coal, with the rolling stock limited to 70km/h. When I point out that a tank engine is as fast, and costs about a tenth as much to buy and run, they get the idea. 15:15:14 <Celestar> Brianetta: do "we" support wagon speed limits properly? 15:15:34 <peter1138> partly 15:15:41 <peter1138> ttdp implements speed limits on default wagons too 15:15:46 <peter1138> as an option, i believe 15:15:48 <Brianetta> It works well enough with a grf 15:16:00 <Celestar> peter1138: well, THAT is easy enough to implement :P 15:16:04 <peter1138> it also increases the speed limit (by a user defined amount) if the wagon is empty 15:16:13 <peter1138> Celestar: yes, but probably not desirable 15:16:23 <Celestar> peter1138: difficulty setting 15:16:30 <peter1138> hmm 15:17:24 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.85] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 15:17:52 <Kalpa> hmm. 15:26:54 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.229.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:09 <Darkvater> hmm.. 15:29:32 <glx> hmm... 15:30:45 <Darkvater> hmm\..* 15:31:31 <peter1138> hmm 15:32:39 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-195-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:33:55 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tsch??"] 15:35:44 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:41:34 <black_Nightmare> couldn't canals be owned to a particular company? 15:41:36 *** Tron__ [n=tron@p54A3D135.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:37 <black_Nightmare> just curious 15:42:41 *** TronBSD [n=tron@p54A3D135.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:51 *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away 15:50:54 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 15:51:27 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181108119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:55:00 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3D009.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:14 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3D009.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:29 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [i=Q@p54A7E767.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:12:56 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 16:14:20 <CIA-5> KUDr * r4277 /branch/yapf/ (15 files): Sync with trunk 16:16:31 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E767.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:07 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@84-74-150-246.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:28:23 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x53588af2.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:28:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:30:49 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:31:09 *** Patrick` [n=pitt2@i-195-137-14-213.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 16:31:19 <Patrick`> ooi, what happened to the realistic acceleration fix? 16:35:12 <Darkvater> KUDr: ping 16:35:28 <KUDr> I am at your service, my lord 16:35:54 <Patrick`> oh, and rar siggui 16:36:00 <Darkvater> you don't have to sync with trunk every day unless you change something locally so that it is worth syncing :) 16:36:35 <KUDr> it is easier for me to keep it in sync, then later sove many conflicts 16:36:45 <KUDr> and now i want to help Celestar 16:36:51 <KUDr> with elrail bug 16:37:04 <KUDr> and if i fix it, i will try it here 16:37:15 <KUDr> or is it bad idea? 16:39:41 <Darkvater> nah, it's ok 16:40:22 <KUDr> he has bug that happen on windows only (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/98) 16:40:30 <KUDr> so i try to find it 16:40:39 <Patrick`> oh, that reminds me 16:40:45 <Patrick`> I need to port my own project to windows 16:40:52 <Patrick`> it was platform-agnostic until I buggered around with it 16:41:14 <Patrick`> using stdout, setsid, chdir("/") and stupid crap like that 16:41:21 <Patrick`> well, sensible crap that's not on windows 16:42:39 <Patrick`> did diagonal cargo payment calculations ever get corrected? 16:43:49 <Noldo> are they calculated with L1 norm ? 16:44:07 <Belugas> Nice quote (anonymous tough) : "Mac users swear by their computers. PC users swear at their computers. 16:44:07 <Belugas> " 16:44:26 <Patrick`> my current understanding, which is 6 months out of date, is that it's done by delta_x plus delta_y 16:44:30 <Patrick`> not the RMS of the two 16:45:31 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@84-74-150-246.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd 16:47:30 <Bjarni> <KUDr> I am at your service, my lord <-- I didn't call for you 16:47:50 <Patrick`> you rang? 16:48:02 <KUDr> sorry my lord, not alone 16:48:25 <Bjarni> Belugas: so true 16:48:47 <Belugas> Bjarni : I have to admit :) 16:51:09 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54947C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:52:12 <Bjarni> lol @ the windows only elrail display bug 16:52:28 <KUDr> Bjarni: yes, crazy 16:52:45 <KUDr> and only in Release build 16:52:52 <KUDr> not in Debug 16:54:07 <Bjarni> I can't reproduce it 16:54:15 <Bjarni> so it really is windows only 16:54:51 <Bjarni> once again VS optimise to make a bug that no other platform get 16:55:00 <peter1138> gets 16:55:05 *** Cheery is now known as cheery 16:55:18 <peter1138> (and optimises) 16:55:41 <Bjarni> I can remember the last time. It took ages to find because it was not there in debug builds either 16:55:50 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:56:36 <Bjarni> I once had such issues on OSX as well. Tunnels failed to be build. The reason was that I had added an unsafe optimisation flag in the makefile by accident 16:57:06 <Bjarni> after I removed it, the problem went away until somebody decided to readd it :p 16:57:23 <Bjarni> then I removed it again and it have worked ever since 16:57:30 *** test_ [n=test@host147-81.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #openttd 16:57:49 <test_> hey 16:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> unsafe flag == improper code? 16:58:45 <Bjarni> maybe, but the actually warned about using that flag in the manual because weird stuff like this could happen 16:59:02 <Bjarni> KUDr: maybe the bug is in the flag settings in VS 16:59:11 <DaleStan> Unsafe flag is something like "Assume no aliasing" when there is aliasing. 16:59:35 <KUDr> I don't know any such flag that can lead to 'unsafe' optimization 17:03:34 <DaleStan> Assume no aliasing is the only one I'm aware of. It'll cause breakage when (1) an object is modified through one pointer and then accessed directly or through a different pointer, or (2) when an object is modified directly and then accessed through a pointer. 17:04:35 <KUDr> DaleStan: what flag in MSVC controls that? 17:05:07 <Patrick`> --yesimalunatic ? 17:07:25 <test_> can you tell me what's the status of the patch for the bug I reported some days ago? 17:10:17 <Patrick`> probably not 17:10:20 <Patrick`> mister ... test? 17:10:21 <DaleStan> KUDr: /Oa is "assume no aliasing", /Ow is "Assume aliasing across function calls". (MSVC 2003) Both have to be entered manually, AFAICT. 17:10:36 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@84-74-150-246.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:10:59 <KUDr> DaleStan: thanx, will check it 17:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> test_: the network thing? there were some commits about it, i believe... 17:12:01 <KUDr> not there 17:12:16 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> [02.04. 14:43] <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4241 /trunk/network_server.c: - Fix: Perform validation on the error number that a server receives from a client. An invalid value may cause the server to terminate. 17:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> [03.04. 20:34] <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4267 /trunk/ (network.c network_client.c network_data.h network_server.c): - Fix (r4241): also validate the error number that a client receives from a server, and encapsulate this functionality into GetNetworkErrorMsg(). 17:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i can tell ;) 17:15:21 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 17:23:22 *** dune [i=lalela@v235b.studby.ntnu.no] has joined #openttd 17:23:34 <dune> can someone help me to understand how to implement those huge airports richk67 made? ive never coded before.. ^^ 17:23:47 * dune slaps Richk67 around a bit with a large trout 17:23:49 <dune> hehe 17:24:27 <dune> maybe someone have made an executable? 17:25:00 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 17:26:59 * Kalpa gently pats dune 17:27:12 <dune> hi Kalpa :) 17:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> dune: you don't need to code 17:27:31 <dune> what do i do then :s 17:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> just use svn and apply the patch/diff file 17:27:36 <dune> <--n00b 17:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> go to the wiki 17:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and read up on compiling the sources 17:27:49 <dune> k 17:27:53 <dune> ill try :D 17:29:44 <Belugas> Slapping Richk67 won't help, by the way, dune. 17:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> why? i always punch people in the face when i ask them to do something ;) 17:30:54 * Brianetta eats Crunchy Nut Corn Flakes with evaporated milk 17:31:29 <dune> hehe, i dont really use to care about slaps :p i use them to get peoples attension ^^ 17:31:42 <Belugas> Because, in my case, it just increase the level of inerty and force me to do absolutely NOTHING for the slapper 17:32:15 <Belugas> a ping is worth much more... 17:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i tend to reach for the kick-finger then ;) 17:32:32 <dune> lol 17:33:23 <dune> this is actually the first time i see someone really care about the stupid slap-function :D 17:34:17 <Brianetta> Oh man 17:34:19 <Brianetta> dune 17:34:22 * hylje slaps dune with a large Belugas 17:34:24 <Brianetta> you need to sort your client out 17:34:29 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [i=Q@p54A7E767.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:34:31 <Brianetta> Your version reply is breaching your privacy 17:34:37 <hylje> :o 17:34:44 <Belugas> hylje : lol 17:34:49 <dune> btw Eddi|zuHause, could you give me a direct link to that thing you explained to me. My head isnt really working atm (headache etc) 17:35:00 *** Tron__ [n=tron@p54A3D135.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:35:04 *** TronBSD is now known as Tron 17:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> err... no... 17:37:56 <dune> well well.. thx for the help and im sorry if anyone is "offended" by my use of slap. 17:38:01 <dune> im out of here, bye 17:38:05 *** dune [i=lalela@v235b.studby.ntnu.no] has quit ["no comment"] 17:39:22 *** Mucht [n=kvirc@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 17:40:40 <test_> thanx for the info Eddi, do you know also when the new stable version will be released? 17:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no... 17:41:01 <glx> hard to say test_ 17:43:05 <test_> well thanx 17:43:07 <test_> BYEZ 17:43:21 <ector> http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~tronic/ai.png << the new AI can sabotage for each other unintentionally ... interesting bug 17:43:33 *** test_ [n=test@host147-81.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:45:48 <blathijs> hmm, briljant 17:46:05 <blathijs> something broke my bdb SVN repos, without leaving errors 17:46:10 <blathijs> it just stopped working 17:46:20 <hylje> ector: quite small resolution you got 17:46:23 <blathijs> but svnadmin recover seems to work 17:46:30 <ector> hylje, i don't normally play like that 17:46:36 <hylje> :O 17:46:37 <ector> i just wanted to keep the screenshot focused on the bug 17:47:16 <blathijs> pretty funky: Broken subversion repos kept killing my apache webserver, since each request involving the broken repos blocked a worker process, and the GoogleBot kept trying :-) 17:48:04 <hylje> SPIDER OF DOOM! 17:48:32 <blathijs> indeed :-) 17:48:45 <blathijs> I suspected the googlebot before, but couldn't find how and why exactly 17:48:49 <blathijs> anyway, it's fixed now :-) 17:48:58 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012]"] 17:49:19 <Bjarni> blathijs: warnings in npf... 17:49:40 <blathijs> ah, yes :-) 17:49:50 <blathijs> just needs some initializing IIRC 17:51:08 <blathijs> hmm, let's stop harvesting all kinds of data from my webserver, that'll probably help :-) 17:54:04 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 17:57:23 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176105074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:01:01 *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 18:11:35 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176116183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:27 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:13:28 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 18:14:53 <KUDr> SOLVED! (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/98) 18:16:54 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 18:18:38 <ector> and the problem was? 18:19:13 <Belugas> The SOLUTION is ? 18:19:13 <ector> if it's a VS2005 bug i want to be able to work around it if it ever bites me :P 18:19:13 <KUDr> signed/unsigned add 18:19:21 <ector> oh 18:19:41 <Belugas> hehe 18:19:44 <KUDr> uint = uint + char + char 18:20:02 <KUDr> Can I check it in? 18:20:44 <ector> i would :P 18:21:18 <KUDr> will be in yapf branch soon 18:21:35 <Belugas> I would for a dev to check, KUDr. That's what I do (most of the time) 18:21:41 <Belugas> +wait 18:22:39 <Tron> <KUDr> uint = uint + char + char <--- please be more vague, otherwise it could be possible somebody could confirm the cause of the problem 18:23:51 <ector> at what year does electric rails become available? 18:24:14 <Tron> SH30 is the first electric train 18:24:31 <KUDr> Tron: last char was sometimes negative 18:24:37 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 18:24:40 <Tron> *sigh* 18:24:40 <KUDr> and overflowed 18:24:52 <Tron> a line number or something is too much asked for, i guess 18:25:03 <KUDr> elrail.c 18:25:04 <KUDr> byte temp = PPPorder[i][GetTLG(ti->tile)][k]; 18:25:04 <KUDr> if (HASBIT(PPPbuffer[i], temp)) { 18:25:04 <KUDr> int x = ((int)ti->x) + x_pcp_offsets[i] + x_ppp_offsets[temp]; 18:25:04 <KUDr> int y = ((int)ti->y) + y_pcp_offsets[i] + y_ppp_offsets[temp]; 18:25:16 <Darkvater> KUDr: line :) 18:25:17 <Darkvater> eg 18:25:18 <KUDr> was missing that (int) 18:25:18 <blathijs> and still no line number ;-) 18:25:21 <Tron> slowly you're going on my nerves 18:25:23 <Darkvater> elrail.c:35423 18:25:30 <KUDr> i changed line numbering 18:25:35 <KUDr> by other fixes 18:25:39 <Darkvater> he :P 18:25:42 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:25:47 <KUDr> ca 264 18:25:55 <blathijs> Darkvater: I hope that was a typo? 18:26:01 <blathijs> or is elrail really 35K lines? 18:26:02 <blathijs> ;-) 18:26:04 <Tron> thank you very much *shakes head* 18:26:05 <Darkvater> overflow ^ 18:26:12 <blathijs> heh 18:26:41 <Darkvater> anyone know how I can exclude directories within the ant build-system? 18:26:46 <Darkvater> (java) 18:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> ector: whenever the first electric engine is available... the DBSetXL has them from 1920 18:27:19 <ector> ok ok 18:27:53 <ector> Darkvater, dunno if you saw this: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~tronic/ai.png << that's two AI:s ... look at what it did to the slope 18:28:02 <Darkvater> looks funky 18:28:03 <ector> new AI 18:28:55 <Vornicus> o.O 18:28:59 <ector> i'm not sure which of the AI:s is at fault, who built the road first... if the red one failed to build a square or if the green one overwrote 18:29:19 <ector> in any case it looks like a bug :) 18:30:15 <ector> also the AI:s tend to choose the same industries to connect, or maybe it's just bad luck :P 18:30:28 <guru3> cause they all think the same perhaps? 18:30:50 <Darkvater> you needa contact TrueLight for the newai, but I don't think it's developed any more 18:30:55 <ector> ok 18:31:07 <Darkvater> he's moved over to GPMI wholly 18:31:24 <ector> hm, was that the ai plugin interface thingy? 18:32:01 <ector> ah, a script language interface 18:32:56 <Darkvater> yes 18:34:14 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 18:35:08 <KUDr> Celestar: https://147.229.12.195:8443/doctor/pub/ottd/elrail.draw.pylon.on.windows.diff 18:38:21 *** tank__ is now known as tank 18:39:06 <Belugas> KUDr, line 38 of your diff : a tab has been added after } else { 18:39:40 <Tron> CHAR? WTF?! 18:39:55 <KUDr> ohh, mistake happened 18:40:07 <Tron> it's platform dependent if char is signed or unsigned 18:42:24 * Vornicus wonders which platforms make it signed, and which make it unsigned. 18:46:15 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:46:16 <Tron> btw: the () next to the cast are superflous, casts have the 2nd highest priority in the operator hierachy 18:47:02 <KUDr> Tron: right, but it should be there as it is more clear to everybody 18:47:36 <Darkvater> gn all 18:47:41 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["bye cruel world"] 18:47:42 <KUDr> gn 18:47:43 <Tron> i think it's confusing, () always tell me "something special is going on" and then i'm looking and after some time i realise that nothing happens 18:48:31 *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 18:48:40 <Tron> except for << and >> the C operator hierachy is very sane and usually does The Right Thing(tm) 18:49:16 <Richk67> very ANDy that ;) 18:50:24 <Patrick`> shit! 18:50:36 <Patrick`> magic bulldozer means that building train lines will flatten anything 18:50:41 <Patrick`> I clipped one corner of a forest 18:50:42 <Patrick`> and bam 18:51:07 <KUDr> hmm 18:51:20 <Tron> +static const signed char 18:51:25 <Tron> we have int8 for that 18:51:55 <Patrick`> aand I got bored 18:51:58 <KUDr> i know, but for Celestar it could be more clear what was missing 18:52:52 <Tron> i'm not sure i understand what you're trying to tell me 18:53:23 <KUDr> if 'signed' is added, it is clear, why i chanded it 18:53:52 <KUDr> otherwise he can see it as cosmetic change 18:54:06 <Tron> the change is not acceptable this way (even the original code wasn't) 18:54:12 <Belugas> If int8 is replaced, it would be even more evident, no? 18:54:47 <KUDr> lot of people thinks that int8 == char 18:55:00 <Maedhros> out of interest, why change it from unsigned (and undefined) to signed? i'm not entirely sure what it's doing, but i'd guess x and y are co-ordinates and therefore always positive? 18:55:01 <KUDr> so it is not 18:55:09 *** Mucht [n=kvirc@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'"] 18:55:29 <ector> Patrick`, with magic bulldozer, cities will eat your industries when they expand 18:55:53 <Patrick`> ector: it's ok, I got jaded and disillusioned anyway 18:56:00 <Patrick`> I'm going to take another break from ottd 18:56:03 <Richk67> int8 == -128..127, char/byte==0.255 ?? 18:56:05 <ector> ok, good. :P 18:56:06 <Patrick`> I don't have the time to invest currently 18:56:25 <Tron> char/byte==0.255 ?? <--- no 18:56:31 <KUDr> Maedhros: 20 + (-1) could be 19 or 275 18:56:51 <Richk67> 0..255 18:57:12 <Tron> Maedhros: don't assume, read the code, some items in the array are negative 18:57:19 <Tron> <Richk67> 0..255 <-- no 18:57:31 <Tron> as i just told: it's platform dependent if char is signed or unsigned 18:57:44 <KUDr> agree 18:57:46 <Maedhros> Tron: fair enough 18:57:51 <ector> it's a compiler switch in vc 18:57:57 <Richk67> apologies for not reading the text that was typed before i arrived 18:58:10 <Richk67> :P 18:58:20 <Tron> ector: it's a switch on most compilers, but it defaults to one or the other depeding on architecture 18:58:44 <Richk67> okies - makes sense... forgot there are weird machines out there ;) 18:59:10 <Tron> if you want to call the POWER architecture weird... 19:00:03 <Tron> that's a platform on which char is unsigned 19:00:24 <Richk67> ZX - Spectrum too ;) 19:01:20 <Richk67> Celestar ping :) 19:02:12 *** C-Otto [i=cotto@c-otto.de] has left #openttd [] 19:02:34 *** Patrick` [n=pitt2@i-195-137-14-213.freedom2surf.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:08:46 <Richk67> tron: i have a question... if i have code with a patch that sets a config patches var as "saved", it seems I can no longer load the opentitle.dat game... it bombs with the classic "SIGetoffs != ...." error.... is this right? 19:12:38 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:12:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ 19:12:44 <Darkvater> peter1138: got something juicy for ya :) 19:12:57 <Darkvater> peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=425985#425985 19:13:18 <Darkvater> donnu if it's newgrf err or openttd err 19:13:22 <Darkvater> bleh 19:13:23 *** Darkvater [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:31 <Tron> KUDr: given that char is signed on x86 then according to §6.3.1.3.2 (conversion of negative values into unsigned types) and §6.2.5.9 (modulo reduction of unsigned types) it's a bug in the MS C compiler 19:14:01 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:14:02 <black_Nightmare> hey 19:15:07 <Tron> Richk67: is the new patch setting depedent on the savegame version? 19:15:43 <Richk67> actually it may be worse than that - i just commented out the only change in settings.c, and it still bombed 19:15:47 <black_Nightmare> if there's one thing I would like if possible ..... 19:15:54 <Richk67> im just checking a fresh compile 19:15:54 <KUDr> Tron: if project has not set: Default Char Unsigned = Yes 19:16:02 <black_Nightmare> could network maps not alter your own settings? (like its on its own seperate settings) 19:16:09 <KUDr> Which is set 19:16:24 <black_Nightmare> I sometimes am a bit tired of a no-plane map (set to zero) then going back to trying make my own map that I want to use many planes on 19:16:25 <black_Nightmare> etc 19:16:31 <Tron> then just change the char to int8 and check if the problem is gone 19:16:38 <Tron> (who set that to unsigned?!) 19:16:54 <KUDr> heh 19:17:20 <Tron> the C standard says it has to be gone 19:18:03 <Tron> and the next question: why was there no warning that an unsigned type is initisalised with signed data 19:18:09 *** cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:18:51 <KUDr> Tron: yes, it is gone 19:19:14 <Tron> good, than slap Celestar for using char 19:19:25 <Tron> and please check if there's more stuff like that 19:19:43 <KUDr> but still I think it should not mix signed and unsigned values in one expression 19:21:13 <Tron> the C standard says that exactly that happens what you expect to happen - it just says it in a very complicated way 19:21:36 <KUDr> Tron: it is about style 19:21:41 <KUDr> not about standard 19:21:49 <KUDr> it must be readable 19:22:01 <Tron> style for me is to use as few useless casts as possible 19:22:05 <peter1138> evening 19:22:10 <KUDr> not that I must stury standard on each line 19:22:12 <Tron> because every useless casts is a potential bug 19:22:44 <Tron> and the cast to (int) really buys me nothing in terms of readability 19:22:54 <KUDr> if it improves readability and code is more clear, it is not useless 19:23:09 <Tron> i'm perfectly fine with adding a small signed offset to an unsigned value 19:23:11 <KUDr> then all comments would be useless too 19:23:17 <Tron> i guess you do that more often than you thing 19:23:19 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has joined #openttd 19:23:23 <Tron> s/thing/think/ 19:23:38 <KUDr> if i do it then as a mistake only 19:23:56 <Tron> <KUDr> if it improves readability and code is more clear, it is not useless <--- a i just said i think it reduces readability 19:24:07 <Tron> <KUDr> then all comments would be useless too <--- i haven't said or implied this 19:24:19 <Celestar> Richk67: pong 19:24:32 <Tron> <KUDr> if i do it then as a mistake only <--- size_t, ssize_t, just an example 19:24:55 <Tron> offset_t 19:24:59 <Tron> ptrdiff_t 19:25:13 <KUDr> Tron: don't take it personally, but it is not good style to write code which you can understand only with manual at hand 19:25:16 <Tron> i guess you never cast when you use one of them 19:25:40 * Vornicus points out that he has never seen casting done without parentheses. 19:25:59 <Tron> KUDr: don't take it personally but casting to int suggests that the result could be negative which is simply untrue 19:26:10 <KUDr> I think i cast them or use proper types 19:26:14 <Richk67> celestar: hi... did you see ive now completed the 3 new airports, so the patch is now 6 airports? 19:26:22 <Tron> Vornicus: those are just types, not casts 19:26:24 <KUDr> the mistake is that x and y is uint 19:26:26 <Celestar> Richk67: no I didn't. 19:26:39 <Celestar> Richk67: will check later. I've been rather busy recently :( 19:26:55 <Celestar> stupid stupid work 19:27:11 <Richk67> Celestar: link - http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423544#423544 for perusal at your leisure ;) 19:27:17 <Vornicus> wait. you've got somethng like unsigned int foo and you're using (unsigned int) foo? 19:27:24 <Celestar> Richk67: will 19:29:49 <Celestar> I need opinions of what to do with buoy. the current implementation is giving me the creeps. 19:30:09 <KUDr> [21:28:01] <Tron> KUDr: don't take it personally but casting to int suggests that the result could be negative which is simply untrue <-- bad suggestion - it suggest that it should be signed operation 19:30:21 <Celestar> Suggestion: Move the buoy information into water tiles and the handling code into waypoints. 19:30:25 <Celestar> RFC. 19:30:40 <Tron> KUDr: no, it's not 19:30:47 <KUDr> if all operands are signed then it is clear without reading books 19:30:52 <Tron> it just adds a small offset to an unsigned value 19:31:02 <ector> can't you just upcast the small offsets to whole ints and be done with it? 19:31:39 <Tron> ector: that's not the problem, the problem was the small offset was accidently declared with an unsigned type, but initialised with signed data 19:31:50 <ector> oh aha 19:32:06 * Vornicus tries to follow the consequences of Celestar's thingum 19:32:10 <Celestar> what are we discussing= 19:32:17 <Celestar> something I did? 19:32:18 <peter1138> so is it fixed yet? 19:32:27 <peter1138> or are you just arguing about casting ;p 19:32:33 <Tron> Celestar: yes 19:32:42 <Tron> Celestar: _NEVER_ use char except for strings 19:32:46 <Celestar> ok what did I fxck up? 19:32:56 <KUDr> Celestar: https://147.229.12.195:8443/doctor/pub/ottd/elrail.draw.pylon.on.windows.diff 19:33:11 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACD65E8D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 19:33:13 <Tron> it's platform dependent if char is signed or unsigned 19:33:20 <Celestar> yuck 19:33:30 <peter1138> must've been a late night :) 19:33:49 <Tron> Celestar: just change the chars in table/elrail.h to int8 19:34:54 <Richk67> gotta go... see yas later 19:34:55 *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 19:35:08 <Celestar> Tron: I didn't really know that chars CAN be unsigned? 19:35:10 * peter1138 looks at the problem DV pointed him to 19:36:22 <Celestar> Tron: it also seems to depends on optimization settings on Windows :P 19:36:43 <peter1138> still, use int8 / uint8 / byte / whatever, i guess 19:36:45 <Tron> no, it's a compiler flag 19:36:54 <Tron> gcc has a similar flag 19:37:00 <Tron> char is signed on x86 19:37:11 <KUDr> Celestar: there is defined char to be unsigned in project settings (for Release build). Dunno why 19:37:18 <Tron> but somebody set the flag for unsigned chars in the project file 19:37:31 <Celestar> ok KUDr 1) why the != in the isflat computation. 19:37:39 <Celestar> 2) reasons for the cast? 19:37:53 <Tron> Celestar: just change the chars to int8 19:38:22 <Celestar> Tron: does that WORK on windows? 19:38:26 <KUDr> Celestar: we had here long discussion with Tron about that 19:38:38 <Celestar> KUDr: and I cannot see you agreeing? 19:38:57 <Tron> Celestar: int8 is defined as signed char 19:39:15 <KUDr> Celestar: we didn't agree 19:39:19 <Tron> Celestar: the problem was that you initialise the (unsigned) char array with signed values 19:39:32 <KUDr> we read the same code differently 19:39:34 <Celestar> Tron: yes I learned that meanwhile. 19:39:44 <Celestar> but what are you disagreeing about? 19:39:52 <Tron> KUDr: instead of disagreeing rather tell my why there is no warning that the unsigned arrays is initialised with signed data 19:40:13 <Tron> Celestar: nothing, just fix the problem 19:40:14 <peter1138> hmmm 19:40:21 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 19:40:36 <KUDr> Tron: I don't know. Is it not suppressed by #pragma? 19:40:56 <KUDr> Tron: on GCC there is such warning? 19:40:58 <peter1138> newhq.grf 19:41:02 <peter1138> is it me, or is it b0rked 19:41:07 <Tron> yes, there is, i've seen it 19:41:07 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:41:37 <Tron> though it doesn't warn on other occasions... 19:41:43 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC"] 19:41:44 <Tron> there is really no compiler with sensible warnings 19:41:56 <Celestar> Tron: it doesn't warn in this case? 19:42:10 <Tron> icc spits out so many warnings, it's totally useless 19:42:12 * peter1138 pokes Born_Acorn 19:42:18 <peter1138> heh 19:42:21 <Tron> Celestar: who doesn't warn in what case? 19:42:37 <Celestar> Tron: it only spits out many warnings because of enum mismatches. 19:42:49 <Celestar> Tron: gcc doesn't if I do "unsigned char" in the elrail_data.h 19:42:50 <Tron> Celestar: not only that 19:43:00 <Celestar> Tron: which others? 19:43:20 <Tron> Celestar: casting the result of a comparison to char 19:43:31 <Tron> it could lose "significant bits" 19:43:50 <Tron> yeah, sure, you can lose something from a result which is either 0 or 1 19:44:00 <Celestar> Tron: that's not a warning, I think its a "remark" 19:44:14 <Celestar> pointless nevertheless:P 19:44:16 <Tron> is there a data type with 0 bits width and therefore couldn't store a signle bit? 19:44:26 <KUDr> # pragma warning(disable: 4244) // 'conversion' conversion from 'type1' to 'type2', possible loss of data 19:44:26 <KUDr> # pragma warning(disable: 4761) // integral size mismatch in argument : conversion supplied 19:44:27 <Tron> Celestar: pointless several hundred times 19:44:34 <KUDr> stdafx.h 19:44:40 <Celestar> bah 19:44:46 <Celestar> stdafx.h is utter crap 19:46:06 <KUDr> but it is not the reason 19:46:21 <CIA-5> celestar * r4278 /trunk/table/elrail_data.h: -Fix: changed char to uint8 because signedness of char is undefined. Thanks to KUDr and Tron for research and stuff. (FS#98) 19:46:29 <Celestar> that ok now? 19:47:36 <KUDr> Celestar: it also fixed your drawing bug :) 19:47:37 <Celestar> icc "remarks" also that you lose bits when your have byte foo69(int a) {return a & 0xF;} 19:47:44 <peter1138> mr Born_Acorn 19:48:22 <Tron> Celestar: the *ehem* remark isn't bad per se, but it's totally useless without range value propagation 19:48:44 <Celestar> Tron: yes. 19:48:56 <Tron> Celestar: and the best part: if you cast it to get rid of the remark, then it remarks that you could lose bits by the cast 19:49:01 <peter1138> so how are you supposed to convert from int to byte with icc? 19:49:04 <Celestar> Tron: I know :) 19:49:09 <Tron> peter1138: not at all 19:49:20 <Celestar> peter1138: switch off remarks :) 19:49:20 <peter1138> o_O 19:49:29 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe there is some way? 19:49:42 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:49:49 * Celestar goes digging 19:49:55 <Tron> question: does it remark char f(char a, char b) { return a + b; } ? 19:50:02 <Celestar> Tron: trying 19:50:02 <Tron> technically it should... 19:50:09 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:50:24 <Tron> a and b get promoted to int for the addition 19:50:30 <Tron> so the result of the + is int 19:50:41 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181108119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [] 19:50:57 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 19:52:08 <Celestar> Tron: ?! 19:52:13 <Celestar> have a look 19:52:20 <Tron> hm? 19:52:49 <Celestar> http://pastebin.com/640687 19:53:00 <Celestar> others, too if interested in compilers 19:53:02 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:07 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:53:16 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:17 <KUDr> Tron: warning C4245: 'initializing' : conversion from 'int' to 'const unsigned char', signed/unsigned mismatch 19:53:24 <Tron> Celestar: as i predicted 19:53:30 <Celestar> Tron: not fully 19:53:37 <Celestar> (char)(a & 0xFF) doesn't warn 19:53:38 <Tron> Celestar: what? 19:54:07 <Tron> hm, i've seen that remark 19:54:20 <Tron> which version of icc? 19:54:21 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 19:55:00 <black_Nightmare> brb 19:55:06 <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/tmp]> /opt/intel/cce/9.0/bin/icc -dumpversion 19:55:06 <Celestar> 9.0 19:55:23 <Celestar> Tron: so actually the remarks are not TOO stupid. 19:55:28 <Tron> hm, maybe they switched that remark of because too many complained 19:55:40 <Celestar> only the a & 0xFF is a bit stoopid imho 19:56:07 *** Sacro [i=Ben@83.100.255.109] has joined #openttd 19:56:33 <Celestar> Tron: but I really like some other commands :) 19:56:48 <Celestar> remarks 19:56:52 <Celestar> not commands :) 19:58:32 <KUDr> Tron: warning C4245: 'initializing' : conversion from 'int' to 'const unsigned char', signed/unsigned mismatch <-- needs only to be enabled 20:01:50 <Celestar> ok 20:01:59 <Celestar> any comments on buoys? 20:02:08 <Sacro> they should float 20:02:17 <peter1138> hmm 20:02:29 <peter1138> fio doesn't protect against reading past the end of files o_O 20:02:41 <hylje> potential sploit+ 20:03:19 <Tron> Celestar: leave them as they are, there is more important stuff than this change which could cause nothing but problems 20:03:27 <Celestar> Tron: not today. 20:03:31 <Celestar> but on the long run. 20:03:33 <Tron> and without any sensible pathfinder ships are useless anyway 20:03:45 <Celestar> Tron: what is this "more important stuff" 20:03:47 <Celestar> oh yes. 20:04:02 <Celestar> I recommend moving the chunk handlers for map to map.c as well as the debug output... 20:04:40 <hylje> chuck handler! 20:05:59 <Celestar> objections? 20:06:30 <Celestar> Tron: are you planning to get rid of FindLandscapeHeight COMPLETELY? 20:06:58 <Tron> yes, no, maybe 20:07:04 <Celestar> or 20:07:10 <Tron> oh, and thanks for the conflicts in CmdBuildRoad() 20:07:17 <Celestar> sworry (= 20:07:41 <Celestar> only FindLandscapeHeight should have a better name ... 20:07:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o MiHaMiX] by ChanServ 20:08:05 <Celestar> ok I'll move the stuff around. 20:08:11 <Tron> the map5 in TileInfo shouldn't be there 20:08:20 <Tron> the type attribute is almost obsolete 20:08:22 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:08:25 <Tron> which stuff? 20:08:40 <Celestar> map chunk handlers. 20:08:42 <Tron> and then there isn't too much left anymore in TileInfo 20:08:58 <Celestar> just move the code, no change to it. 20:09:02 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:09:21 <Celestar> and ti->tileh is not of much use either .... 20:10:01 <Celestar> Tron to prevent any further conflicts: we mainly have work in industry_cmd and rail_cmd left. who will clean these files? 20:10:03 <peter1138> having ti->tile and tile variables around can cause fun :) 20:10:54 <MiHaMiX> is Darkvater around? 20:11:22 <Tron> Celestar: i'm still not done with roads, somebody caused quite some conflicts, if you remember. And i don't have very much time to work at it 20:12:32 <Celestar> Tron: I can take care of the two others. 20:12:38 <Celestar> hm. 20:12:52 <Celestar> x and y coordinates are used in TileInfo. 20:13:00 <Tron> at least it want to see it before you take care 20:13:18 *** Scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:24 <Celestar> possibly FindLandscapeHeight might want to be called GetTileInfo ? 20:13:32 <Celestar> Tron: syntax error 20:14:17 <Tron> ? 20:14:26 <Celestar> < Tron> at least it want to see it before you take care 20:15:51 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:04 <peter1138> bah 20:16:15 <peter1138> so i make fios check for read past end of file 20:16:27 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:16:28 <peter1138> but that breaks a missing sample.cat :/ 20:16:51 <Tron> missing sample.cat was always broken 20:16:59 <Tron> or do you mean empty sample.cat? 20:17:03 <peter1138> sorry, empty, yes. 20:17:47 <Tron> well, it's a partly unintentional feature that an empty sample.cat works 20:17:56 <black_Nightmare> back 20:18:49 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp83-237-234-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 20:21:08 <KUDr> [21:41:53] <Tron> KUDr: instead of disagreeing rather tell my why there is no warning that the unsigned arrays is initialised with signed data <-- if you enable that warning, there are 224 of them 20:21:49 <Celestar> KUDr: paste them somewhere. 20:22:08 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-156-192-106.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:29 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-157-122-144.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:25:13 <KUDr> Celestar: https://147.229.12.195:8443/doctor/pub/ottd/ottd.C4245.txt 20:25:20 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:25:22 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:25:48 <Celestar> KUDr: it prompts me for un/passwd 20:26:11 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [""Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett"] 20:26:17 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x53588af2.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:26:21 <KUDr> Celestar: and now? 20:27:57 <Celestar> wait 20:28:07 <Celestar> works 20:28:12 <KUDr> k 20:29:18 <Celestar> KUDr: these warnings are VERY VERY stupid 20:29:32 <KUDr> :) 20:29:46 <KUDr> not always 20:29:49 <Celestar> most of them 20:31:10 <SimonRC> I have a radical idea, which I am totally not suited to implement. 20:31:56 <SimonRC> It might be good to do more Copy-On-Write type coding, to speed up autosaves. 20:32:20 <SimonRC> Ther is a noticeable pause late in the game on large maps. 20:32:41 <Sacro> yeah, thats true 20:32:42 <SimonRC> I have a feeling this is rather impractical without languae support, though. 20:32:58 <SimonRC> *cough* Haskell *cough* 20:33:01 <SimonRC> :-) 20:33:50 <Celestar> ? 20:34:45 <Tron> on *nix the solution is rather simple: fork() and save in the child. copy on write for free! 20:38:44 <Celestar> well 20:38:54 <Celestar> *nix is a multitasking OS :) 20:38:59 <Celestar> Win* is not :) 20:40:40 <Celestar> \o/ FAB36 is finally in service 20:41:05 <Sacro> FAB36? 20:41:29 <Celestar> AMD's new plant 20:41:42 <Celestar> capable of producing about 100 million CPUs a year 20:41:57 <Celestar> or in CPU-maker terms 20.000 WSPM 20:43:16 <hylje> but amd is behind intel in technology generations 20:43:21 <hylje> 65nm :x 20:43:51 <Celestar> well 20:44:00 <Celestar> FAB36 is already spitting out 65nm samples. 20:44:06 <hylje> wow 20:44:14 <hylje> thats good 20:44:17 <Celestar> supposedly revenue production will ramp up in 2nd Half 2006 20:44:20 <Celestar> which is good. 20:44:44 <Celestar> because until Conroe is launched, Intel has nothing to be competitive anyway, apart from the Core Duo 20:45:02 <hylje> laptops 20:45:11 <Celestar> Core Duo .. that's what I meant 20:45:32 <Celestar> but their entire desktop/workstation/server portfolio sucks. From the Celeron to the Itanium 2 20:45:41 <hylje> indeed 20:45:59 <hylje> current opteron beats the shit from pre-release intel protoypes 20:46:12 <hylje> +out, t 20:46:26 <Celestar> each of these products is either grossly underperforming or grossly heat-producing 20:46:36 <Celestar> 135W TDP for server processors :o 20:46:46 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 20:47:57 <hylje> well, lets see what intel does in the near future 20:48:09 <Celestar> good stuff from preliminary performance data. 20:48:43 <Celestar> I guess that with Conroe, Intel will have some lead over AMD until AMD switches 65nm. 20:48:55 <Celestar> or the K8L core is a whole lot better than K8 20:49:22 <hylje> knowing amd, it could be quite good 20:49:54 <Celestar> well 20:50:12 <Celestar> the part I know is that FPU performance is going to be improved quite a bit. 20:50:22 <Celestar> not sure about Integer performance 20:50:44 <Celestar> but AMD would do good getting about 5-10% more performance outta the core 20:51:13 <hylje> currently flops are more important? 20:51:28 <Celestar> not really. 20:51:34 <Celestar> not in real-world applications. 20:51:40 <Celestar> for me, I only care about flops. 20:52:15 <Celestar> I'm rather amazed how very insensitive K8 is towards cache sizes 20:52:25 <Celestar> (apart from games) 20:53:08 <Celestar> I dunno if most codecs are more FPU or more Int sensitive 20:54:00 <Matt-W> peter1138: I've just got back from a conference 20:54:23 <Celestar> lets see how AMD performs on DDR2-800 20:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume that codecs use ints... 20:54:33 <Matt-W> depends 20:54:58 <Matt-W> standard MP3 stuff seems to use floating-point 20:55:02 <Celestar> not sure. 20:55:03 <Matt-W> for example 20:55:10 <Celestar> my audio editor is floating-point 20:55:21 <Matt-W> but you can get pure-integer MP3 decoders too 20:55:40 <ector> most video codecs use almost exclusively MMX, or integer SSE if available, anyway 20:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in our picture/movie compression lesson everything was based on ints 20:55:51 <Matt-W> mmm only sensible 20:56:11 <Celestar> I wish x86 would get REAL vector units one day :S 20:56:13 <Matt-W> I think you can do it either way 20:56:18 <Matt-W> but if you have an FPU you can do it faster 20:56:25 <Matt-W> although my understanding of these things is quite vague 20:56:35 <Celestar> considering the vector lengths of our Hitachi 20:56:51 <Celestar> registers are 16 KILObits in length 20:57:09 <hylje> vector-oriented programming! 20:57:13 <Celestar> yay :) 20:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like fun ;) 20:57:43 <Celestar> .oO(that thing has more storage space in the REGISTERS than my first computer had in RAM. let alone cache) 20:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you are really old man then ;) 20:58:22 <Celestar> nope 20:58:30 <Celestar> I just had a computer when I was very young :P 20:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (computer-wise) 20:58:57 <Celestar> hylje: but Intel is already making 45nm samples. 20:59:09 <hylje> :o 20:59:11 <hylje> nice 20:59:24 <hylje> i wonder how far the accuracy can go 20:59:32 <Celestar> well.. 21:00:00 <Celestar> Intel expects to have 32nm samples mid-2007 and 22nm end-2008. 21:00:29 <Celestar> considering the time it takes for such a process to mature, one would say development on 32nm has already begun 21:00:59 <Celestar> hylje: how far down? dunno. 21:01:03 <hylje> at least it is faster than developing a commercial plane 21:01:11 <Celestar> hylje: I know. been there. 21:01:23 <Celestar> we went broke. 21:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> they might need to stop at a couple of Å probably ;) 21:02:05 <Celestar> 45nm, 32nm, 22nm, 16nm then things will get ugly 21:02:13 <Celestar> quantum effects and crap 21:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> 1Å = 0,1nm 21:02:45 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: one Si Atom has > 0.1nm diameter. 21:02:58 <Celestar> and one might think you need at least 3 of them to form a transistor :P 21:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ;) 21:03:30 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has quit ["Que?"] 21:03:32 <Celestar> my first CPU has 40 pins and like 10000 transistors :P 21:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "has" ;( 21:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ;) 21:03:54 <Celestar> it still is somewhere :P 21:04:11 <hylje> only 10k 21:04:25 <Tron> the sign for Ångstrom is Å 21:04:34 <Celestar> Tron: not in UTF-8 21:04:46 <hylje> äää 21:04:47 <Tron> Ångström even 21:04:49 <hylje> oops 21:04:51 <hylje> ååå 21:04:52 <Tron> Celestar: that wasn't UTF8 21:05:41 <Celestar> dunno 21:05:45 <Celestar> can't read it anyway :P 21:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> mine should have been UTF-8 21:06:28 <Celestar> I can read yours :) 21:07:04 <Celestar> wow . 21:07:16 <Celestar> the Intel 4004 had 2300 transistors 21:07:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a 4-bit processor? 21:07:46 <Celestar> yes 21:08:28 <glx> it was the first in space 21:09:12 <Celestar> and had 10 microns circut size 21:09:37 <Celestar> then intel went to 6 microns for the 8080 21:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so we are factor 100 smaller now? 21:10:31 <Celestar> about yes. 21:11:23 <Celestar> today, and Intel 4004 costs about as much as an Athlon X2 4800+ 21:12:03 <Celestar> and had 16 pins. 21:12:08 <Celestar> socket F has 1207 pins 21:13:40 <Celestar> it used around 0.05 A, while then Pentium XE is somewhere about 100A 21:13:56 <hylje> :o 21:14:42 <Celestar> 100 Apms, I wonder how much of the power is lost in the transmission TO the cpu :P 21:15:32 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 21:17:22 <Celestar> http://www.qdb.us/57267 <= HAHAHA 21:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> rofl ;) 21:23:29 <Sacro> is it sad that i read it when it was in the queue :( 21:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> probably ;) 21:24:20 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:35 <Sacro> i need to make my life more interesting 21:25:44 <Celestar> so that you can get un QDB? 21:26:12 * Sacro checks the queue for the 5th time tonight 21:28:09 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:31 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:33:41 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:17 <CIA-5> tron * r4279 /trunk/ (7 files): s/\<CL_/CLEAR_/ 21:39:08 <MiHaMiX> aaauch, it hurts 21:39:20 <MiHaMiX> it closed down my browser :( 21:39:54 <SpComb> hmm? 21:40:27 <MiHaMiX> SpComb: firebug (it's a firefox extension) probably has a bug 21:41:16 <SpComb> hah 21:43:05 <MiHaMiX> Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIOnReadyStateChangeHandler.handleEvent]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://firebug/content/firebug.js :: anonymous :: line 612" data: no] 21:45:59 * peter1138 > sleep 21:48:51 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 21:50:10 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54947C93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["n8"] 21:51:27 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["Sleep"] 21:53:25 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 21:53:58 *** Sacro [i=Ben@83.100.255.109] has quit ["Sacro has no reason"] 21:55:13 *** CC`2|denver [i=denver@host-81-190-193-56.gizycko.mm.pl] has joined #openttd 22:10:24 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 22:11:33 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:11:51 <Born_Acorn> mr peter1138. 22:12:34 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:45 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:14:13 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B83D6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:19:50 <CC`2|denver> hi you there ;) 22:21:18 *** Morlark| [n=Sean@host86-141-121-129.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:21:39 *** CC`2|denver [i=denver@host-81-190-193-56.gizycko.mm.pl] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 22:22:41 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:23:56 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"] 22:27:39 *** ector [n=meloditr@ygun.brg.sgsnet.se] has left #openttd [] 22:37:00 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:37:27 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 22:37:44 *** Morlark [n=Sean@host86-141-121-129.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42:47 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 22:44:03 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:08:02 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACD65E8D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 23:11:16 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:19:35 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:24:29 *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 23:27:36 <Richk67> hi guys 23:30:11 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E063.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 23:37:36 <Vornicus> hi rich 23:38:17 <Richk67> hi vornicus... gone quiet tonite... 23:38:26 <Vornicus> yes. 23:39:12 <Richk67> serves me right for going to the cinema i guess ;) 23:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what did you watch? 23:45:47 <Richk67> v for vendetta :) very good 23:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that film is genious ;) 23:46:26 <Richk67> good fireworks too - i work with fireworks companies, and they were good ;) 23:47:14 * Vornicus eyes the run of svn update. 23:47:19 <Richk67> hugo weaving and natalie portman were both very good 23:47:32 <Vornicus> UU os_timer.c <---- usually it just says "U" once. 23:47:44 <Kjetil> UberUpdate 23:47:48 <Richk67> devs have been busy boys ;) lots of changes recently in lots of files 23:48:04 <Vornicus> yes. 23:48:32 <Richk67> just need a few changes to airports.c, and maybe landscape.c ;) 23:48:42 <glx> Vornicus: first U is for file updated, second is for properties updated 23:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... conflict 23:49:33 <Vornicus> glx: ah 23:49:37 <Richk67> i had one of those... i took it outside and ... dealt with it ;)