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00:00:17 <Bjarni> so right now gfx.h relies on openttd.h gets included before itself gets included 00:00:20 <Bjarni> which is bad 00:00:34 <KUDr> Bjarni: try repair it 00:00:49 <KUDr> i don't have osx to see the problem 00:00:50 <Rubidium> Bjarni: it happens all the time and all over the place :( 00:01:17 <Bjarni> I know one way to fix this... include openttd.h in gfx.h, but obj-c files can't include openttd.h 00:01:35 <KUDr> Bjarni: so try obj-C++ 00:01:49 <KUDr> this would solve the problem forever 00:01:53 <Darkvater> gn all, see you Monday :) 00:02:08 <KUDr> as the osx is last platform without full C++ ability 00:02:19 <KUDr> Darkvater: gn 00:03:01 * Bjarni is completely clueless about obj-C++ 00:03:06 <Bjarni> never heard of it before 00:03:15 <Bjarni> #ifndef __cplusplus 00:03:15 <Bjarni> typedef uint32 SpriteID; 00:03:15 <Bjarni> #endif //__cplusplus 00:03:17 <Bjarni> #include "../gfx.h" 00:03:28 <Bjarni> this is likely the ugliest fix I can think of, but it works 00:03:38 <Bjarni> in cocoa_v.m 00:04:12 <KUDr> #ifndef __cplusplus is not needed 00:04:52 <KUDr> add just "typedef uint32 SpriteID;" into gfx.h 00:05:18 <Rubidium> KUDr: think that works? 00:05:28 <KUDr> why not? 00:05:47 <Rubidium> redefinitions? 00:05:47 <KUDr> typedef can be there many times if it is the same 00:05:55 <KUDr> must be the same 00:06:02 <KUDr> then it is correct 00:06:06 <Rubidium> that's ugly 00:06:10 <KUDr> at least in C++ 00:06:17 <KUDr> it is not macro 00:06:25 <KUDr> it is namespace update 00:06:41 <KUDr> like forward declarations 00:06:51 <KUDr> they can be there multiple times too 00:09:30 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8140 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: 00:09:30 <CIA-1> -Fix [FS#54]: Combat helicopter flies past factory before it shoots. Chopper 00:09:30 <CIA-1> comes from the north-east, so it looks in +15 direction (forward), not -15 00:09:30 <CIA-1> direction. Probably bad copy-paste from airplane-destroys-oil-refinery disaster. 00:09:41 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:36 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:18:56 <Wolf01> i have a problem, there is anybody who can help me? is about button's dropdown list 00:19:08 <glx> again ? 00:19:18 <Wolf01> yes :| 00:19:40 <glx> I though it worked in previous version of your patch 00:19:51 <Wolf01> the problem is the map button, it have two different lists, one for the game and one for the editor 00:20:02 <Wolf01> i didn't noticed it previously 00:20:57 <Wolf01> so in the editor the string appear "transparency toolbar" instead of "town directory" and opens the town directory 00:21:19 <Wolf01> option1: duplicate strings 00:21:19 <Wolf01> option2: i don't know 00:21:20 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 00:28:36 <glx> Wolf01: you just need to update MenuClickScenMap() 00:29:29 <Wolf01> how to tell it to jump the transparency string line? 00:29:52 <glx> why remove transparency options in scenedit? 00:30:16 <Wolf01> mmm right... why remove them 00:30:35 <glx> update ToolbarScenMapTownDir() too and it should work 00:31:24 <glx> (transparency inserted between sign list and town dir) 00:34:18 <Bjarni> Mac OS X 10.1 introduces the Objective-C++ front-end to the Mac OS X version of the GCC compiler. 00:34:27 <Bjarni> found that on Apple's homepage 00:34:41 <Bjarni> now that I know that it's there... how to use it? :) 00:38:10 <Wolf01> there is a reason why the gui opens in the game but not in the editor? 00:38:35 <Wolf01> (and after this problem is still only the shift-bits problem and all should be done) 00:38:39 <ln-> http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_49299.shtml 00:39:24 <glx> Wolf01: after you updated the 2 functions I said? 00:39:29 <Wolf01> yes 00:40:05 <glx> show me the diff 00:42:19 <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/transparency_options_813x_after_chaos.diff 00:45:48 <glx> Wolf01: if (!IsValidPlayer(_current_player)) return; <-- I think it's the problem :) 00:46:08 <Wolf01> oh ok 00:48:00 <Wolf01> works 00:54:00 <BFM> KAPOW http://msnrunes.i8.com/ 00:58:22 <CIA-1> bjarni * r8141 /trunk/src/video/cocoa_v.h: 00:58:22 <CIA-1> -Fix r8128: [OSX] now OSX can compile again. 00:58:22 <CIA-1> Note: this is again another not so nice workaround as Objective C fails to include C++ code in the headers 00:58:22 <CIA-1> We should move to Objective C++ as soon as possible, but such a change is not done overnight and 00:58:22 <CIA-1> this quick fix will allow OSX to compile until the prober solution is done 00:58:46 <Wolf01> any chance to have transparency gui merged in trunk? 00:59:34 <Bjarni> goodnight 00:59:49 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:19 <ln-> rewrite the whole game in Obj-C 01:02:29 <Smoovious> do it in Logo 01:02:30 <Smoovious> :) 01:03:05 <Wolf01> do it in english language directly :) 01:03:39 <Wolf01> mmm i think i must sleep, i have to wake up in 6 hours to go to work 01:03:42 *** ozatomic [~ozatomic@203-206-142-212.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:06:32 <Wolf01> 'night all (merge transparent options gui patch!!! -> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/transparency_options_gui.diff , thanks :D ) 01:06:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host140-232-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 01:10:57 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:11:56 *** robobed is now known as roboboy 01:12:50 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:09 *** Bytefox [~digitalfo@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 01:14:28 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:16:16 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 01:17:17 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 01:17:44 <ln-> http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/13/water.intox.ap/index.html 01:31:54 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-226-85.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:50 <ThePizzaKing> ln-: Interesting, but it doesn't say how much water she consumed 01:33:26 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498EB8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:33:51 <ln-> ThePizzaKing: it also doesn't say whether she was given the Wii. 01:34:43 <ThePizzaKing> Hmmm 01:36:00 <ln-> or her family. 01:38:03 <ThePizzaKing> I should really find out how much they were drinking (I haven't the faintest idea how much 8 ounces is) 01:39:50 <ThePizzaKing> 227 grams 01:43:07 <ln-> half pint they say 01:43:23 <ln-> and everybody knows a pint is 0.568 litres 01:46:12 <ThePizzaKing> I do? 01:47:11 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:48:05 <ThePizzaKing> But that's the UK pint, I assumed that it would be a US pint, which is apparently 0.473 litres 01:48:46 <ln-> ah, great, it's nice that they have their own variants of units. 01:49:31 <ThePizzaKing> I'm just glad that Australia uses internationally standardised units to avoid these problems 01:50:44 <ThePizzaKing> "A pint of beer in Australia or New Zealand is 570 ml, except in South Australia where a pint is 425 ml and 570 ml is called an imperial pint." 01:51:11 <ThePizzaKing> South Australia always has to be different 01:51:23 <Sacro> 8 ounces? 01:51:46 <Sacro> would that be fl oz? or just oz? 01:52:19 <ThePizzaKing> you mean there's a difference 01:59:56 *** sPooT [~spoot@e156067.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> fl oz is a unit of volume, oz is a unit of mass 02:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> like liter and kilogram 02:05:44 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-187-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> i just never have the slightest idea how much they are, or how they are related 02:08:29 <ThePizzaKing> But you can measure Liquids in volume and Mass 02:08:48 <ThePizzaKing> Luckily 1 gram of water = 1 millilitre of water 02:09:16 <ThePizzaKing> That makes things much less confusing 02:11:21 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:44 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-160-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:54 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but i have no idea if that is the same with oz and fl oz 02:19:00 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498F888.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:22:33 <ThePizzaKing> There's even a metric ounce 02:22:37 <ThePizzaKing> Or two 02:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> i only know that germany introduced a "metric" pound (=500g) 02:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> before that, there were probably like 10 dozen different pounds in use ;) 02:31:33 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76563.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was probably around 1870/71 02:32:28 <Sacro> :o 02:32:31 <Sacro> they are breeding 02:36:53 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-236-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:01 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7714C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:38:18 <ThePizzaKing> Apparently there's a Dutch ounce - 100g 02:38:26 <ThePizzaKing> and a Chinese one - 50g 02:39:03 <ThePizzaKing> But I suppose they're not official measurements 02:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm actually surprised they did not introduce a metric time 02:40:48 <Sacro> they did 02:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, not widely ;) 02:41:04 <Sacro> its @153.70 02:42:50 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498F888.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:14 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:24 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 03:16:35 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:20:54 <CIA-1> glx * r8142 /branches/newhouses/ (150 files in 15 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r8044:8127 03:22:06 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB5282.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:36:16 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:38:21 *** ozatomic [~ozatomic@203-206-142-212.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:34 <l_Blue_l> Hey does anyone know much about the devlopment of graphics related things? 03:49:01 <DaleStan> l_Blue_l: Are you talking about writing GRF files, writing support for GRF files, writing 32bpp .tars, or supporting 32bpp .tars? 03:50:24 <l_Blue_l> I am wondering how the 32bpp branch is going as i am thinking of makeing some imagers for it 03:52:24 *** dp [~dp@p54B2F2EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:59:14 *** dp_ [~dp@p54B2F8EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:06 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:21 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc206.host1.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:36:21 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:55 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-140-81.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 06:05:07 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:25:33 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc74.host2.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 06:30:15 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:05 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3FA5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:46:33 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 06:48:49 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3F576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:52:36 *** roboboy_ [~leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:53:34 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 06:57:23 <roboboy_> what ports does openttd user for mp? 06:57:50 <peter1138> 3979 mostly 06:57:54 <roboboy_> ok 06:58:17 <roboboy_> ill ask my dad to unblock them so i can have servers 06:58:44 <Smoovious> I think servers use 3978 too... I saw mention of it on another page, but if you're not serving you don't have to worry about it, for clients it is outgoing only (think it was only UDP too) 07:01:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: please respond 07:23:58 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:02 <peter1138> bah 07:24:06 <peter1138> too many breakdowns 07:24:20 <peter1138> reliability: 0% breakdowns: 11 07:24:21 <peter1138> hee 07:26:24 <Smoovious> yeah, that'll do it 07:26:43 <peter1138> and bah, damn ufos 07:28:38 * Smoovious chuckles. 07:28:52 <Smoovious> just had a thought about something donewith UFO's that would just make people think I'm creepy 07:29:02 <Smoovious> er... more creepy that is 07:29:44 <peter1138> bah, even the modern trains are breaking down 07:29:46 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:57 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:32:54 <Celestar> damnit 07:33:19 <Celestar> how many places do we have that modify town rating? :o 07:35:03 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:33 <peter1138> hmm? 07:38:40 <CIA-1> tron * r8143 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp dock_gui.cpp rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): 07:38:40 <CIA-1> Remove the landscaping button from the build toolbars. 07:38:40 <CIA-1> The landscaping toolbar can be reached at least as easy directly from the main toolbar. 07:38:40 <CIA-1> Further two of the four toolbars uses 'l' as keyboard shortcut for this button, which plain does not work (The letter has to be uppercase). 07:38:40 <CIA-1> This was covered by the fact there is a global shortcut 'L' to open the landscaping toolbar, so the individual checks in the four build toolbars were redundant anyway. 07:39:37 <Tron> what an essay for removing less than 30 lines of code 07:41:06 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 07:42:44 <MiHaMiX> hm 07:42:50 <MiHaMiX> I used those buttons :-( 07:42:53 <MiHaMiX> never mind 07:43:08 <MiHaMiX> I'll use the L shortcut 07:43:51 <peter1138> the main toolbar button isn't that far away 07:44:14 <Tron> the other button with the same effect is about 2cm left and a bit higher 07:44:31 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:44:52 <MiHaMiX> ok, no problem. will that patch settings still work, which opened the landscaping toolbar when I open a construction toolbar? 07:45:00 <peter1138> yes 07:45:13 <MiHaMiX> ok, in this case I'm no longer crying :D 08:02:33 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0D83F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:07:46 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0FF96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:36 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 08:08:36 <TheMask96> !logs 08:10:53 *** xerxes [~destroyer@ppp28-60.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:08 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:19:16 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:22:13 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 08:43:24 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gonozal_VI@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 08:53:35 *** alfons_winkel [~alfonswin@84-72-156-17.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd 08:59:58 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:09:12 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:09:18 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B824E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:37 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:32 <Darkvater> morning 09:11:21 <peter1138> hi 09:12:09 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B804AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:12:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:16:55 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8098 09:17:00 <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8098 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp (2007-01-13 15:00:40 UTC) 09:17:02 <_42_> -Fix (r6964): For editboxen, always fill the background with black, and not only after a valid call to FillDrawPixelInfo. This solves some graphics glitches with background widget-colour showing through on frequent redraws. 09:17:06 <Darkvater> hmm 09:17:12 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8080 09:17:13 <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8080 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp (2007-01-12 16:30:41 UTC) 09:17:15 <_42_> -Codechange (r8079): Move the *WHOLE* performance code into the #ifndef and some style changes. 09:17:23 <Darkvater> wow I'm good, only finding my own commits ;p 09:17:25 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8090 09:17:26 <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8090 /trunk/src/string.cpp (2007-01-13 13:13:32 UTC) 09:17:28 <_42_> -[win32] Fix (r8089): for *nprintf 'ret = count' NOT 'ret = 0'... 09:17:30 <Darkvater> lol 09:17:36 <Darkvater> ok but this isn't working 09:18:50 <Darkvater> there we go 09:18:54 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8107 09:18:56 <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8107 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2007-01-13 17:44:11 UTC) 09:18:58 <_42_> -Codechange (r8106): Show the MD5SUM of the original GRF (saved in savegame) instead of that of the replacement so a user can still go hunt for the original GRF if needed. 09:19:15 <Darkvater> peter1138: I think I'll revert this change as it's confusing and the savegame is saved with a grf-md5sum that wasn't used 09:20:32 <Darkvater> we might need some 'debug' button (as ttdp) have to print out the current grf list and/or give the list saved with the savegame 09:20:59 <Darkvater> cause if you're missing some or have incompatible grfs all you see is their name/grfid 09:22:36 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Perhaps a force-load option 09:22:41 * Darkvater reads back..was that just me talking all alone for the last 5 minutes 09:22:50 <Brianetta> which skips the MD5 check 09:22:52 <Darkvater> Brianetta: it always loads savegames now, albeit with a warning 09:23:00 <Brianetta> ah, cool 09:23:10 <Brianetta> 0.5 doesn't at all (: 09:23:18 <Darkvater> that is incorrect 09:23:23 <Darkvater> 0.5 RC3 doesn't at all 09:23:28 <Brianetta> ooh 09:23:38 *** Proeliator [~simen205@ti231110a080-4938.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 09:23:43 <Brianetta> Is there a timescale for a new candidate? 09:23:46 <Darkvater> however this makes it a bit more difficult to go hunt for the exactly matching grf files 09:24:06 <Darkvater> well I think we all did great work, so I'll start backporting once home 09:24:17 <Brianetta> Right 09:24:18 <Darkvater> depending on what time I have tonight, or tomorrow right 09:24:24 <Darkvater> s/right/night 09:24:29 <Brianetta> So, next gameon my server could be the last at this revision 09:24:49 <Rubidium> Brianetta: has your server experienced more desyncs (or experienced them earlier in the game) when you had loaded a specific combination of newgrfs? 09:25:06 <Darkvater> I just hope no other serious faults are found/exist to have RC4 be the last 09:25:18 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Hard to say, since I almost always load the same set. 09:25:27 <Darkvater> you switched train-sets 09:25:31 <Brianetta> I did 09:25:33 <Darkvater> ukrs / nars 09:25:33 <Brianetta> and will tonight 09:25:52 <Brianetta> The NARS game didn't desync, but neither did any RC3 game until last night 09:26:06 <Brianetta> and I'm on the fourth 09:26:28 <Brianetta> sorry, it wasn't NARS, it was usset 09:27:04 <Darkvater> :O I thought you picked NARS since it has sounds ;) 09:27:17 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Quit: HMage] 09:27:17 <Brianetta> In all cases, the game desyncs new players very aggresively, then eventually stops doing so. 09:27:28 <Brianetta> Darkvater: I have replaced usset with NARS for all future games 09:27:42 <Brianetta> I used NARS because it was GPL and needed no research 09:27:48 <Brianetta> usset, damnit 09:27:53 <Brianetta> I used usset because it was GPL and needed no research 09:27:53 <Darkvater> ah 09:28:04 <Darkvater> and pikka gave you permission? 09:28:10 <Rubidium> Brianetta: that might be caused by some difference in the cached values for vehicles and such 09:28:12 <Brianetta> but I spoke to Pikka, and he said NARS was way better, nigh-on perfect, etc 09:28:25 <Darkvater> lol 09:28:53 <Darkvater> Rubidium: hmm, that's some bad cache then if recalculating it on load does not result in the same values as ingame 09:29:37 <Rubidium> yeah, but basically all vehicle variables that are not saved are suspect 09:29:53 <Darkvater> that's true 09:30:11 <Brianetta> Need a secondary path for info 09:30:21 <Brianetta> after the save, then send cache info 09:30:41 <Darkvater> the point of the cache is that it can be fully reconstructed on load 09:30:47 <Darkvater> if it weren't then it would be saved 09:30:54 <Brianetta> hmm 09:30:55 <Brianetta> (: 09:30:58 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:31:04 <Rubidium> Brianetta: any idea whether somebody was autoreplacing at the moment of the desyncs? 09:31:20 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Highly likely, as one of the players was asking me how to do it 09:31:37 <Brianetta> road vehicles 09:32:55 <Rubidium> ok, I really start to suspect autoreplacing 09:33:11 <Brianetta> I love the way that DaleStan comes down like a tonne of very pedantic bricks on anybody who says they have version 5.0 of openttd 09:33:25 <Darkvater> the player settings are supposedly synced on join 09:33:26 <Rubidium> leave_depot_instantly <- that variable is never set to something on load 09:33:48 <Rubidium> Darkvater: yes, but 'NOSAVE' variables of vehicles are not synced on join 09:34:24 <Darkvater> I think I asked bjarni about that once and he said it was really a no-care...but you know.. it's bjarni 09:34:52 <Rubidium> so you join and for the server/older players the vehicle leaves the depot immediatelly and for the new players it could be that the vehicle stays in the depot 09:36:36 <Darkvater> that is a possibility if you join just at the right time 09:37:17 <Rubidium> but with dozens and dozens of vehicles replacing 09:37:20 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=542045#542045 << the cat's out of the bag 09:37:49 <Darkvater> all this fuss about WTF OMGZ I CAN'T READ SVEGAME FORMAT IN NOTEPAD boils down to editing the map with playres in the scenario editor 09:38:50 <Brianetta> Darkvater: DaleStan ahs a goo dpoint about scenarios and companies 09:40:07 <Darkvater> yes, it was meant to be a discussion point whether to allow this or not; or just load the game and add 'reset player stuff' in there 09:40:15 <Darkvater> but it got in the backburner a bit 09:40:24 <Darkvater> the original reason for doing this was to prevent cheating 09:40:28 <Brianetta> I'd like scenarios with companies 09:40:38 <Brianetta> "This conpany underperforms. Help it to beat the other company." 09:40:52 <Brianetta> A scenario, ultimately, should be reworked to have goals, too 09:40:59 <Brianetta> at the option of the author 09:41:35 <Brianetta> and if you manage to slip a "build lock" button into 0.5's scenario editor, I'd be really grateful 09:42:03 <Brianetta> a scenario with working canal networks isn't feasible atm 09:42:55 <Brianetta> Ooh, it's late 09:42:58 <Brianetta> I have to go to work 09:43:02 <Darkvater> :) 09:43:02 <Brianetta> biab 09:59:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 09:59:18 <valcalculus> Brianetta! 09:59:19 <peter1138> back 09:59:32 <peter1138> yes, the cache rail variables are now majorly dependent on newgrf 09:59:49 <peter1138> so it's possible to return different values at different states 10:00:22 <peter1138> solution is to save, or make the server recalculate when it saves the network gmae 10:00:47 <Rubidium> first one should check whether that happens 10:01:19 <peter1138> it's almost certainly possible 10:01:31 <peter1138> might not be what's causing the issues though 10:01:53 <Darkvater> peter1138: what do you mean 'server should recalculate'. Doesn't the server have already the up-to-date values? Or you mean "reset" after save so it has the same as the clients 10:01:59 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-236-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:02:11 <peter1138> recalculate/reset, same difference 10:02:18 <Darkvater> but it's not possible for joined clients to achieve the same rail-cache state as the server just by going through afterloadgame? 10:02:24 <peter1138> no 10:02:38 <peter1138> because, say, the server did the updates at different times, in depots etc 10:02:56 <peter1138> the client will be doing them at a later point (obviously) 10:03:08 <Rubidium> the cached variables look fairly safe though 10:03:16 <peter1138> "look", yes 10:03:27 <peter1138> it's unlikely any set would return different values for it 10:03:30 <Darkvater> those values are also input for other states no? Not only output 10:03:31 <peter1138> but it is possible 10:03:39 <peter1138> hmm? 10:03:49 <Darkvater> eg decisions are based on their vaue 10:03:51 <Darkvater> +l 10:04:13 <peter1138> certainly 10:04:14 <Darkvater> because then, as you said, they should either be saved or recalc-d by server on save 10:04:16 <peter1138> that's why they exist 10:04:31 <peter1138> the alternative is to not cache at all 10:04:38 <peter1138> but that would probably hurt performance a lot 10:04:47 <Darkvater> I'd vote for save than as it's less kludgy then if (_networking&&_network_server) recalc 10:05:00 <peter1138> *nod* 10:05:05 <Rubidium> peter1138: the more I look at leave_depot_instantly the worse it becomes 10:05:09 <Darkvater> oh which reminds me; have you committed spritecache 1MB > 2MB? 10:05:15 <peter1138> Rubidium: i couldn't figure that one out 10:05:20 <peter1138> Darkvater: no 10:05:43 <peter1138> i was wondering about making it configurable, heh 10:05:48 <peter1138> but probably not needed 10:06:05 <peter1138> if someone needed it smaller for a small machine the define can be changed back, heh 10:06:31 <Darkvater> for porting ;) 10:06:38 <peter1138> ya 10:06:50 <Darkvater> -DSPRITECACHE_SIZE 10:06:50 <Darkvater> ;p 10:08:05 <peter1138> heh 10:08:12 <peter1138> SPRITE_CACHE_SIZE i think ;p 10:08:22 <peter1138> #ifndef SPRITE_CACHE_SIZE... hmm 10:08:40 <Darkvater> #ifndef spri_size #define spri-size 1<<21 10:08:57 <peter1138> what to do with this sergej guy? 10:09:08 * Darkvater had to get calc to get the binary of 2MB 10:09:31 <Darkvater> peter1138: have you checked the Private Area? There's a thread about it, but I can't reach it atm 10:10:03 <peter1138> there was a thread about the stuff on grfcrawler 10:10:10 * peter1138 checks 10:10:23 <peter1138> ah 10:11:09 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:17 <Darkvater> I should write him a PM after lunch I think and close the thread until he gives satisfactory answer(s) 10:11:36 <peter1138> hmm 10:11:42 <peter1138> i was going to move it now ;( 10:11:54 <peter1138> move it, let him explain himself 10:12:14 <Darkvater> perhaps nicer to give mod-reply, close thread 10:12:48 <peter1138> he's a fuckwit, no need to be nice 10:13:40 <Darkvater> he's russian, don't think they know too much about copyright 10:16:47 <Darkvater> I must say though, Quark did a much more efficient implementation of 'unlimited' sprites 10:16:50 * Darkvater hides 10:18:22 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp34-71.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:29 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp34-71.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [] 10:18:49 <Darkvater> 2 lines vs 640KB diff; who's the better coder now, eh? ^^ 10:20:18 <setrodox> DaleStan, did quark just try to change a constant for that, without any additional code? 10:20:21 <setrodox> erm 10:20:23 <setrodox> Darkvater, 10:20:33 <setrodox> damn tab completion 10:20:44 <Darkvater> yes he did 10:21:46 <setrodox> did you give him the standard "there's a reason why they are called constants" talk? :D 10:22:22 <Darkvater> I think Dalestan did; and peter as well 10:22:37 <setrodox> ah, ok 10:25:18 <peter1138> Darkvater: yeah, sorry about that 10:25:54 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC73CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:26:15 <peter1138> the real change was only 2 lines 10:26:17 <peter1138> the rest was an accidental commit 10:26:41 <peter1138> heh, and wolf01 updated his patch but used int32 img o_O 10:26:44 <Darkvater> hmm, I'll let it slip this once 10:26:49 <Darkvater> but don't do it anymore 10:27:25 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 10:27:42 <peter1138> hmm, so, longvehicles, dbsetxl and newstatsw all load together now 10:27:48 <peter1138> longvehicles still looks shit though 10:27:53 <peter1138> and it needs some newcargo support 10:28:00 <Rubidium> peter1138: do you know a GRF that uses the vehicle depot trigger? 10:28:24 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 10:28:28 <peter1138> not off the top of my head 10:28:31 <peter1138> DaleStan might 10:29:00 <Darkvater> wb blathijs, KUDr 10:29:37 <blathijs> Bah. Something rebooted my machine, just as it was trying to wake me up with music... 10:30:05 <peter1138> so that's your excuse for oversleeping... 10:30:26 <blathijs> yup 10:30:57 <blathijs> Should have woke up at 7.00, but I did not do so until 9.00 (thinking, why do I feel so awake? Can't be right...) 10:31:41 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:36:29 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:41 <Brianetta> valcalculus: What? 10:38:41 <Brianetta> Col screenshot on the webcam 10:38:44 <Brianetta> a plane crash 10:39:47 <peter1138> heh 10:40:03 <peter1138> hmm, and a bug 10:42:56 <peter1138> or maybe it did that anyway 10:44:43 <peter1138> oh, it did that anyway 10:48:47 <valcalculus> Brianetta: I'm looking for cheap hosting of a website and a few mailing list adn mail redirects - would you happen to know a good address for that? 10:53:42 <Darkvater> peter1138: what bug? 10:53:55 <Darkvater> did anyone see the very important bug I fixed yesterday? 10:54:02 <Darkvater> the attack helicopter one? ^^ 10:54:56 <ThePizzaKing> :o I reported that one 11:00:01 *** roboboy_ [~leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:03:38 <peter1138> Darkvater: i thought it was a coloured newspaper bug 11:03:44 <peter1138> but it turns out it's supposed to be darker 11:04:17 <Darkvater> ah 11:06:31 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 11:06:42 <Darkvater> hi Purno 11:06:47 <Purno> hi DV 11:07:39 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 11:07:56 <Darkvater> hi Belugas 11:20:32 <Brianetta> valcalculus: um... no 11:21:09 <Brianetta> valcalculus: I don't need services like that (I own a server of my own) so I don't know what the state of the market even is. 11:21:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E3D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:33:54 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:30 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM 11:48:15 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gonozal_VI@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has quit [] 11:57:06 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:00:02 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:23 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 12:04:35 <Rubidium> Brianetta: what savegame from ppcis.org/standard is the one that desynced yesterday? 12:05:02 <Brianetta> Rubidium: The game is still running 12:05:08 <Brianetta> no save on the website yet 12:05:12 <Brianetta> and the desyncs have stopped 12:05:43 <Rubidium> I would really like to have a save from a few months before the desyncs happen :) 12:05:47 <Brianetta> but I have a save from the moment the autopilot saw "has joined the game" for every desync 12:05:59 <Brianetta> if I can csroll back in IRC far enough to see when that happened. 12:06:33 <Brianetta> 23:23 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error) 12:06:33 <Brianetta> 23:24 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error) 12:06:35 <Brianetta> It was then 12:06:38 <Brianetta> two secs 12:07:16 <Rubidium> the savegame from the join previous to all the desyncs would probably be a good starting point 12:07:29 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 12:08:09 <Brianetta> Rubidium: On the site, join*.sav 12:08:17 <Brianetta> the hex is the UNIX date 12:08:31 <Brianetta> so sorted ascii, they are in chonological order 12:08:39 <Brianetta> the first is from a couple of hours before 12:08:45 <Brianetta> the next three are my three desyncs 12:09:00 <Brianetta> which happened within 2 minutes 12:11:03 <Brianetta> Aditionally, Devil desynced twice this morning 12:11:19 <Brianetta> and his first join attempt was about an hour after the one before 12:11:59 <peter1138> maybe they've got the wrong newgrfs! 12:12:11 <Brianetta> peter1138: er. 12:12:34 <roboboy> whats the current date 12:12:55 <Brianetta> on my server, 5th of November, 2039 12:12:59 <Brianetta> Bonfire night 12:13:04 <Brianetta> except there's no night in OpenTTD 12:14:19 *** Lisby [~rendmig@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:14:58 <alfons_winkel> Hello all. I was wondering whether there are any plans for OpenTTD to go 3d sometime in the future? I've been searching through the forums to find anything related to that. But apart from a thread where someone wrote, that this topic has come up a couple of times, I wasn't able to find anything else. Although searching for 'openttd 3d' gives numerous results all of them don't seem to be related to what i'm looking for. I guess you 12:15:09 <Rubidium> hmm, loading the savegame gives me: 12:15:17 <Rubidium> (in my own semi-debug version) 12:15:18 <Rubidium> Cache inconsistency of variable cached_power of vehicle 2268 (8200 vs 16400) 12:15:18 <Rubidium> Cache inconsistency of variable cached_max_te of vehicle 2268 (138125 vs 276250) 12:15:28 <Brianetta> My server is disconnecting players on join 12:15:31 <Brianetta> not desync 12:15:33 <Brianetta> "Connection lost" 12:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> they take too long to download the map? 12:16:01 <roboboy> both Brianetta and my self currently 12:16:18 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause2: Hardly 12:16:34 <Brianetta> We get gut off after the map has loaded 12:16:56 <Brianetta> OK, I'm in 12:16:58 <Brianetta> and connected 12:17:05 <Brianetta> It might have been net.weather 12:17:34 <roboboy> i just got the conection lost eror 12:18:28 <Brianetta> roboboy: Spectating? 12:18:38 <roboboy> yep 12:19:15 <alfons_winkel> did anyone read what i posted? 12:20:01 <Brianetta> alfons_winkel: We have no idea. 12:20:09 <Brianetta> Try looking at the read count. 12:20:11 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 12:20:19 <Brianetta> roboboy: RC3 has a spectating bug 12:20:24 <roboboy> ok 12:20:27 <alfons_winkel> read count? 12:20:29 <alfons_winkel> where? 12:20:35 <Brianetta> On each topic 12:20:39 <alfons_winkel> in irc? 12:20:50 <alfons_winkel> i didn't post in the forum 12:20:57 <alfons_winkel> i just posted here 4 min. ago 12:21:49 <Brianetta> You don't post to IRC 12:21:51 <Brianetta> you say 12:22:04 <alfons_winkel> ah. sorry ;-) 12:22:11 <Brianetta> and you said more than most people will read 12:22:17 <Brianetta> in short, no, no 3D plan at all. 12:22:27 <alfons_winkel> k. thats all i wanted to know 12:23:17 <Brianetta> Caladan is spectating my game without desyncing 12:23:21 <Brianetta> That's clever 12:23:31 <Brianetta> I had to compile my own RC3 with a bug fix toachieve that 12:23:58 <caladan> yes, im checking 12:24:08 <caladan> ive got normal rc3, without any patches 12:24:28 <caladan> can check with any patch if you need 12:30:54 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:11 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 12:32:02 <caladan> Brianetta: what's the sever of yours configuration? 12:32:36 <Rubidium> Celestar/peter1138: why is the power and max_te of a vehicle influenced by the CheckSavegameVersion(42) branch in AfterLoadGame? 12:35:13 *** Aracirion_ [~Aracirion@c-82-192-249-219.customer.ggaweb.ch] has joined #openttd 12:35:27 <Aracirion_> hi 12:35:39 <alfons_winkel> hi 12:36:10 <Aracirion_> whats up? 12:38:52 <Darkvater> Brianetta: it is irrelevant of the fact if you were spectating or not 12:38:53 <Aracirion_> nobody talking anymore? 12:39:01 <Darkvater> usually linux clients crash; windows just gives garbage 12:39:23 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-76.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:39:44 <alfons_winkel> windows is garbage... 12:40:03 <Digitalfox> alfons_winkel: Why? 12:40:38 <alfons_winkel> nvm 12:40:49 <peter1138> Rubidium: it's not? 12:41:08 <Digitalfox> alfons_winkel: Whats nvm?? 12:41:14 <alfons_winkel> nevermind 12:41:20 <peter1138> Rubidium: it's affected by the version 24 change though 12:42:05 <Aracirion_> Ok now that nobody is really talking I might have a go ... in the forum we were discusssing new size relations for 32bit graphix, and I would be very happy if at least one coder could give his opinion 12:42:23 <Aracirion_> It feels so like there's nothing ever going to be done if people just ignore it 12:42:23 <Rubidium> before that CheckSavegameVersion(42) a TrainConsistChanged on all vehicles does not change anything, right after it does. 12:42:51 <Darkvater> Rubidium: cached_power is wrong? I thought that only can change when you buy the vehicle and afterloadgame updates these values 12:42:55 <Brianetta> caladan: hardware? 12:43:17 <caladan> yes 12:43:18 <Rubidium> Darkvater: well, that's what happens when I load the savegame in trunk 12:43:26 <Brianetta> Heh, one player on my server sold all 49 ships, leaving only 6 belongong to competitors 12:43:33 <Brianetta> CPU use fell from over 80% to under 40% 12:43:34 <Rubidium> have not reproduced a cache-mismatch in 0.5.0-RC3 12:43:44 <Brianetta> caladan: P4 1800, 512MiB RAM 12:43:51 <Celestar> Darkvater: the power can change on every tile 12:43:51 <Brianetta> 100Mpbs network 12:43:53 <peter1138> Darkvater: it changes when a mixed type (diesel & electric) train moves 12:44:04 <peter1138> if it switches from elrail to normal rail, for example 12:44:31 <peter1138> Rubidium: what data gets changed? 12:44:48 <Rubidium> max_te and max_power 12:45:06 <Darkvater> ah 12:45:08 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489EC01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:45:14 <peter1138> perhaps there's an incorrect railtype returned somewhere 12:45:28 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: the 32bpp branch is not really going anywhere at the moment it seems 12:46:40 <Aracirion_> member:Darkvater: Does this mean its unsure if anything's going to be implemented? 12:46:52 <peter1138> member? 12:46:58 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:37 <Aracirion_> peter1138: I dragged his name from the chat window instead of typing and the irc app wrote membor not me 12:47:44 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 12:47:48 *** caladan_ [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:11 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 12:48:24 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: does this mean its uncertain if anything's going to be implemented in terms of new gfx? 12:49:07 <Darkvater> yes, it still remains uncertain. 32bpp is still in a wip status 12:49:20 <Darkvater> even after it's done the size relations will remain the same as for current 8bpp graphics 12:49:35 <Aracirion_> yeah thats why I was asking in that post 12:49:48 <Darkvater> going bigger (tiles, changing relations, whatelse) is really just theoretic atm 12:50:01 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489E669.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:50:05 <Aracirion_> becuase if size relations are never going to be changed, the gfx should have a slightly different approach 12:50:35 <Darkvater> never is never, but looking at the current state I think it's pretty far off right now 12:50:52 <Aracirion_> and would you still go on modelling to scale? 12:51:17 <Aracirion_> because as I said, a system could be worked out to create the cartoon style of the original 12:51:30 <Darkvater> "still go on modelling to scale" ? 12:51:37 <Aracirion_> that would probably look better than modeling to scale and then shrinking 12:52:15 <Aracirion_> well the current way we are creating 32bit sprites modelling with real-worlds sizes 12:52:22 <Aracirion_> 1metre = 1 metre 12:52:40 <Aracirion_> the idea is that then things are shrunk to meet the current sizes 12:53:51 <Aracirion_> but if different size relations will never be done with 90% certainty that's much more work and probably looks less good than modelling for a cartoon style from the start 12:54:03 <Darkvater> that won't really work unless you scale some objects more/less than others 12:54:11 <Darkvater> eg airplanes/busses houses/airports 12:54:23 <Aracirion_> yeah that was the idea 12:55:07 <Aracirion_> as of now, for most buildings one tile would be 12,5m 12:55:09 <Darkvater> and, I think I am safe to say, about 80% of the users play (O)TTD for the nostalgic feeling back then; changing graphic styles is therefore a very sensitive matter 12:55:44 <Aracirion_> in the poll we had about 75% wanting different sizes 12:55:56 <Aracirion_> with 87 votes 12:56:08 <Aracirion_> only 22 wanted to keep sizes the way they are now 12:56:24 <Darkvater> 87 votes against a download count of 100.000+ 12:56:30 <caladan> but the game would be what it is now with change of graphics... 12:56:55 <Aracirion_> but then making new gfx 32bit is pointles anyway 12:57:01 <Aracirion_> because it will look very different 12:57:03 <Darkvater> hardly a significant representation 12:57:25 <Aracirion_> and nostalgia also requires pixellated graphics 12:57:28 <peter1138> if it looks anything like simutrans then i don't want it :) 12:57:33 <Darkvater> not really. Look at AV8 (newgrf airplane set for TTD) 12:57:51 <Darkvater> it's 3D rendered in 32bpp then rescaled to fit. It looks good and still has the TTD feel 12:57:55 <Aracirion_> well I like av8 a lot but i also would favour different size relations 12:58:11 <peter1138> rescaled and also touched up by hand massively 12:58:32 <Darkvater> cause really...simutrans might be a great game, but it's graphics are so damn ugly I'd never play it 12:58:43 <Darkvater> yes, even the new 128bpp tileset 12:58:48 <Darkvater> ok not ugly...just not fitting 12:58:51 <peter1138> it's slow too, heh 12:58:53 <peter1138> 128bpp? heh 12:58:55 <Darkvater> or look at locomotion 12:58:57 <Aracirion_> did u ever have a look at the 32bit gfx being developed? 12:58:57 <Darkvater> *shudder* 12:59:02 <caladan> hu, locomotion :/ 12:59:26 <peter1138> locomotion is of course 8bpp 12:59:37 <caladan> but it's ugly anyway :D 13:00:00 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: yes, I've looked over the thread. Really, really stunning models were in there. I think it'd look great (ok different, not TTD) as a full replacement for 32bpp ottd 13:00:10 * Brianetta eats a hot steak pasty 13:00:44 <Aracirion_> the problem with the bigger resolution is that you will notice much better how weird scales are 13:00:47 <Aracirion_> http://www.tt-forums.net//files/small_airport_pathetic_109.png 13:00:51 <Aracirion_> thats a mockup I made 13:00:52 <Darkvater> but, as I don't think two different size-relationships will be developed for the same game unless someone forks openttd and goes a seperate way it needs the same relationships 13:01:00 <Darkvater> do I dare look at it? ;) 13:01:02 <Aracirion_> no definite textures, just for scale 13:01:08 <Darkvater> that _pathetic_ part is not really encouraging 13:01:18 <Aracirion_> :) 13:01:20 <Darkvater> alltaken has done some really nice farm-fields 13:01:29 <peter1138> hmm 13:01:32 <peter1138> that fills my monitor 13:01:39 <peter1138> that's not really a good thing 13:01:48 <Aracirion_> its just the new tile-size 13:01:59 <Aracirion_> you can of course zoom out 13:02:11 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-236-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:15 <peter1138> Darkvater: looks like it'd more than 2MB... heh 13:02:42 <Aracirion_> compare the size of the plane to the bulidings 13:02:45 <Darkvater> -DSPRITE_CACHE_SIZE 1<<25 13:03:12 <peter1138> even that probably wouldn't be enough 13:03:26 <peter1138> 4* tile size? 13:03:49 <Aracirion_> 4x tile size yeah 13:03:58 <peter1138> so for 32 bpp, 4 * tiles 13:03:59 <Darkvater> 64x64 I think it was 13:04:14 <peter1138> 64MB would be equivalent to the current 1MB cache 13:04:31 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: yes, it looks more to scale...but loses the original feel at once 13:04:42 <peter1138> it's not to scale, though 13:04:56 <Darkvater> forget the runway ;p 13:04:57 <peter1138> look at the door of the building, heh 13:05:02 <Darkvater> hehe 13:05:02 <peter1138> and forgetting the planes 13:05:12 <peter1138> and the hangar 13:05:28 <Darkvater> they RC-planes 13:05:35 <peter1138> ahh 13:06:00 <Aracirion_> some time ago I was putting some test images together how different size relations could look 13:06:01 <Aracirion_> http://www.tt-forums.net/files/testcity_early_166.png 13:06:44 * Darkvater likes that pic :) 13:06:56 <Aracirion_> compare that with the pathetic airport 13:07:06 <Aracirion_> plane vs. building 13:07:20 <Darkvater> but once you try to go to the realistic side; you're screwed and size-relations-mistakes become so much more apparent 13:07:38 <Darkvater> in your testcity screen the runway is *way* too short 13:07:46 <Aracirion_> yeah 13:08:05 <Darkvater> and things will get bigger, and bigger and bigger 13:08:17 <Darkvater> and in the end your 2048x2048 world map ends up a single city 13:08:48 <Aracirion_> well, I think if cities were a little bigger that wouldn't be too bad, after all maps are much bigger than they were 13:10:03 <Brianetta> We need a V2 mail delivery system in OpenTTD 13:10:12 <Brianetta> a V2 rocket, launched from an airport helipad 13:10:13 <Celestar> Aracirion_: there is a simple rule 13:10:16 <Brianetta> lands nose-first on another 13:10:20 <roboboy> gnight 13:10:23 * roboboy is away: 13:10:31 *** roboboy is now known as robobed 13:10:35 <Digitalfox> I use tortoise to svn in windows, but alfons_winkel uses Mac, what SVN browser can he use?? 13:10:38 <Celestar> Aracirion_: a tile is: 50m for normal stuff, 500m for airports and 5000m for distances :) 13:11:06 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-125-222-27.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 13:11:20 <Aracirion_> Celestar: something like that was proposed, but it requires a totally different approach to modelling than is done now 13:11:22 <Darkvater> Digitalfox: google it. There's a graphical svn client for OSX. Or just use the cli 13:11:27 <Aracirion_> thats why I am bringing this up 13:11:36 <peter1138> Brianetta: you could emulate one with a helicopter :) 13:11:45 <Darkvater> harrier! 13:11:51 <Brianetta> peter1138: Ballistic flightpath and all? 13:11:58 <Brianetta> Harrier would be LOL 13:12:02 <Brianetta> 1 unit of valuables 13:12:03 <Biff> Digitalfox: os x can run the cli svn client 13:12:21 <Biff> should be able to atleast 13:12:54 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: don't want to hurt anybody but if I look at the curren state and development: 32bpp with same size relations as TTD: highly likely to get working soon (as 32bpp branch is finished); 32bpp in any other size relationship: _long_ way off 13:14:00 <Brianetta> Size relationship - is that a global scale, or is it the scale between (for example) road and rails? 13:14:04 <Celestar> Aracirion_: you cannot do it with realistic sizes. 13:14:17 <Aracirion_> so what would you tell people doing Graphics: To work out a system of size relations that works with current sizes, or to model in realistic scales and resize? 13:14:33 <Darkvater> Brianetta: scale as it is now 13:14:34 <Celestar> Aracirion_: a runway needs to be 4000m. so if you make it 20 tiles long, one tile is STILL 200m, and thus basically holds an 8-car train. 13:15:02 <Celestar> and this very runway would be 1/3rd of a tile in length 13:15:10 <Celestar> or, if you wanna go for the 50m... 13:15:12 <Aracirion_> Personally I would prefer having vehicles at realistic scales, but things like runways etc. all smaller 13:15:19 <Celestar> one runway is 80 tiles long 13:15:37 <Celestar> that'S why the 50/500/5000 approach works rather well 13:16:07 *** l_Blue_l [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 13:16:14 <Aracirion_> Celestar: so you like the pathetic airport? 13:16:18 <Brianetta> I'd like to see rails squeezed two-to-a-tile, but not necessarily have that tied to 32bpp 13:16:43 <Celestar> Aracirion_: it could be a tad bigger 13:16:51 <peter1138> that defeats a tile being the base unit 13:17:11 <Celestar> like about 5 tiles longer and 3 tiles wider so that larger aircraft do not spill onto the runway. 13:17:14 <peter1138> and thus isn't going to happne 13:17:26 <Celestar> peter1138: you have two rails per tile in horiz and vert directions ... 13:17:50 <peter1138> shush 13:17:51 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: I think all objects by themselves are to scale (with themselves). Just their relational scale is different. I'm no gfx artist so i can't tell you which one rescaled will look best 13:18:19 <Celestar> Aracirion_: to give you an example. 13:18:39 <Celestar> if you have a 50mx50m tile, than this thing almost fills a 256x256 tile map: 13:18:41 <Celestar> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1031217/L/ 13:19:11 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: that won't work. that way, a railcar would either be way to long or way too narrow. like in the original, a railcar has to be wider but shorter 13:19:26 <Celestar> Darkvater: they are not, planes are often too small in relation, let alone ships. 13:19:31 <Celestar> Darkvater: but I agree that they should be larger. 13:19:42 <Aracirion_> Celestar: nobody is talking about realistic airport sizes! 13:19:49 <Celestar> a ship should be about 2-6 tiles in length. 13:19:51 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: ah sorry, you're right about that. I was thinking of buildings only 13:19:58 <Celestar> Aracirion_: good :) 13:20:14 <peter1138> well 13:20:19 <Celestar> so, for all objects apart from airports/runways, 50 meters a tile is a good dimension 13:20:26 <peter1138> at least we won't run out of sprite ids for the extra angles now... 13:20:31 <Celestar> airports should be scaled by a factor of 10. 13:20:37 <Celestar> and distances by another factor of 10 13:21:04 <Darkvater> peter1138: :) 13:21:05 <Aracirion_> Celestar: with 50m / tile you could hardly make out your train because it is so narrow !!! 13:21:17 <Aracirion_> a train is about 2m wide 13:21:31 <Aracirion_> Original size relations HAVE to be cartoon style 13:22:18 <Celestar> Aracirion_: a train is about 3 meters wide 13:22:30 <Aracirion_> Celestar: big diffference 13:22:35 <Celestar> Aracirion_: ok make it 30meters. 13:22:37 <Aracirion_> 3 pixels instead of 2 13:22:38 <Celestar> or 32 13:22:49 <Darkvater> yeah. You can't have size relations without changing the entire game. Just look at trains and curves..A single curve could fill up a 64x64 map 13:23:00 <Celestar> Aracirion_: just add another zoom level :) 13:23:11 <Celestar> Aracirion_: what tile size would you suggest? 13:23:24 <Celestar> Aracirion_: a normal train carriage is 26.4m 13:23:31 <Aracirion_> Celestar: Currently people are working for 12,5n tiles 13:23:46 <Celestar> Aracirion_: that means one train carriage is 2 tiles long?! 13:23:54 <Aracirion_> personally I would consider going 25m 13:24:06 <Brianetta> Celestar: All train carriages are half their own length, always have been 13:24:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: we're talking about changing that :P 13:24:24 <Brianetta> So yes, two tiles long 13:24:25 <Celestar> I think the food cars are 27.0m 13:24:28 <Aracirion_> Celestar: thats why entirely realistic is not possible 13:24:36 <Celestar> Aracirion_: so 25m is an option 13:24:39 <Darkvater> if you start changing train sizes you have to change building sizes (a single carriage bigger than a small town?), then you have to fix the roadvehicles as well, etc. etc. etc. 13:24:58 <Celestar> 25m is doable without distorting stuff tooo much 13:24:59 <peter1138> george! 13:25:00 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Compare any train wagon to a TTD beach (: 13:25:19 <Aracirion_> what I would propose is above all that everything should be consistent with a certain size of people 13:25:22 <Celestar> with 25m, an aircraft could be up to 3 tiles in legnth and width. 13:25:31 <Darkvater> peope are 2x1 pixel 13:25:38 <Darkvater> or was it 3x2? 13:25:45 * Celestar agreed with 2x1 pixels :) 13:25:45 <Darkvater> MB's newstations 13:25:54 <Darkvater> I think he even copyrighted that ;p 13:26:21 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: thats in the original gfx, and thats why it doesn t matter there! In the new zoom levels people will be visible theoretically, thats why it will look much stranger if things don't fit with eachother 13:26:43 <Darkvater> ? 13:26:43 <Celestar> Aracirion_: what's the goal? 13:26:52 <Darkvater> you can't change size-relations with an additional zoom-level 13:27:20 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: ? 13:27:35 <Brianetta> You can 13:27:40 <Brianetta> zoom out to see your plane 13:27:44 <Brianetta> zoom in to see your truck 13:27:51 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 13:27:55 <Brianetta> zoom way out to see your oil tanker 13:27:57 <Celestar> but the relation stays the same :) 13:28:04 <Brianetta> nah 13:28:14 <Darkvater> so in lvl1 I have a truck being half the size of my plane, and then I zoom in and suddenly the plane is 4 times as big as my truck? 13:28:18 <peter1138> newstations is 3x2, i think, so you can see them 13:28:23 <peter1138> else people look like fence posts 13:28:36 <Celestar> so 3x2? 13:28:38 <Aracirion_> Celestar: currently people are making graphics (especilly buildings) with 1tile=12,5m in mind 13:28:51 <Celestar> a person is closed to square? 13:28:58 <peter1138> 12.5? hmm 13:29:01 <Celestar> Aracirion_: well that can be halved easily 13:29:06 <Celestar> Aracirion_: it'd vote for 25m 13:29:10 <Darkvater> Celestar: they're americanski 13:29:17 <peter1138> maybe 4x2 then, i dunno 13:29:22 <Aracirion_> Celestar: not easily, because then all the windows are double size 13:29:50 <Celestar> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0848622/L/ <= the "town" right above the airport has almost 50.000 inhabitants 13:30:48 <Brianetta> That airport-town ratio is about what I see onmy server 13:30:52 <Celestar> Aracirion_: again 12.5 meters is not too good an idea. if rail vehicles become bigger than one tile, things get ugly in the code methinks 13:31:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, it's not very unrealsitc. 13:31:10 <peter1138> heh 13:31:23 <peter1138> i like the way the engine is in focus... and so is the ground 13:31:25 <Brianetta> As I read that, there was a bit flip-flopping in my brain 13:31:43 <Brianetta> peter1138: Plenty of light 13:31:48 <Brianetta> Practically a pinhole focus 13:31:51 <peter1138> *nod* 13:31:57 <Aracirion_> Celestar: if you would want 25m you should post in the forum 13:32:00 <Celestar> Aracirion_: what *is* wrong with 25m ? 13:32:07 <Aracirion_> currently people are modeling at this scale: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:English_Village_h2.png 13:32:26 <Darkvater> nice pic 13:32:28 <Aracirion_> Celestar: I don't say theres anything wrong with it, I even say I'd consider it! 13:32:42 <Aracirion_> the problem is that people are modellign for 12,5 right now 13:32:43 <Darkvater> both 13:32:54 <Celestar> Aracirion_: nice pic, but one might consider putting 4 of those houses onto one tile. 13:32:56 <Brianetta> 12,5 was decided upon way back, in that forum 13:32:58 <stillunknown> anyone knows how to make a prototype for a class? 13:33:09 <Brianetta> People went out and measured the roads outside their houses and all sorts 13:33:18 <peter1138> looks fine at 25% ;) 13:33:21 <Aracirion_> Celestar: yeah if tiles were 25m then that would change the approach we take on modelling! 13:33:30 <Celestar> a highway lane is 3.5 meters wide 13:33:37 <Celestar> I don't need to measure that :P 13:33:49 <peter1138> metres! 13:33:49 <Aracirion_> yeah 12,5 m seems ideal for roads 13:33:53 <Brianetta> Celestar: In Germany, perhaps 13:33:54 <Darkvater> it's 2m 13:33:58 <Darkvater> if roadworks are active 13:33:59 <Brianetta> It's between 2 and 4 here 13:34:10 <Celestar> Brianetta: well, normally 3.5m 13:34:17 <Celestar> Brianetta: sometimes 3.2 or something 13:34:19 <Aracirion_> 50m tiles will have weird empty space between buildings 13:34:32 <Aracirion_> in cities 13:34:39 <Celestar> Aracirion_: give link to post :) 13:34:51 <stillunknown> anyone knows how to make a prototype for a class? 13:34:58 <Aracirion_> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29268&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 13:35:00 <Celestar> Aracirion_: how many tiles should a mid-sized town be? 13:35:07 <Brianetta> Trains probably won't have the correct length:width ratio 13:35:15 <Brianetta> trains are really long and thin 13:35:15 <Aracirion_> Celestar: dunno 13:35:22 <Brianetta> and aren't really long and thin in the game 13:35:31 <caladan> stillunknown: class name; 13:35:42 <caladan> it should work 13:35:46 <stillunknown> but then it will complain certain functions don't exist 13:35:48 <Aracirion_> Celestar: personally I would opt for a 12,5m tile size but have more things occupying several tiles 13:36:03 <Celestar> Aracirion_: about the economy, don't change it. :) 13:36:03 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:07 <Sacro> peter1138: pign 13:36:09 <peter1138> pong 13:36:10 <Aracirion_> Brianetta: what about 1 traincar/tile 13:36:16 <caladan> you got that in .h? 13:36:20 <Brianetta> Aracirion_: What about it? 13:36:20 <Sacro> peter1138: topic requested locking in openttd graphics 13:36:25 <stillunknown> caladan: i want a forward declaration for a header file 13:36:30 <peter1138> yes, not that locking would do any good 13:36:31 <Aracirion_> Brianetta: I thought it might look good 13:36:39 <Celestar> Aracirion_: long passenger wagons yes, shorter ones not :) 13:36:43 <Sacro> peter1138: well... its breach of copywrite 13:36:52 <peter1138> and locking doesn't change that 13:36:55 <Brianetta> In real-life proportion, you need at least four coaches side by side to make a square 13:37:03 <Aracirion_> Celestar: yeah 13:37:04 <Sacro> peter1138: hmm... maybe not 13:37:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: 4? 13:37:21 <peter1138> i would move it, but Darkvater said he was going to send something about it 13:37:24 <Brianetta> Celestar: on adjacent tracks 13:37:25 <Celestar> in GErmany, track-to-track spacing is 3.6m iirc 13:37:35 <Aracirion_> Brianetta: I made 1-tile traincars in my scale mockup 13:37:35 <Celestar> so 25 meters is somewhere near 8 tracks 13:37:36 <caladan> stillunknown: I don't get it really 13:37:42 <Sacro> peter1138: hmm... he needs to be talked to in russian, i dont think his english is too good 13:38:09 <stillunknown> foo.cpp contains a class, foo.hpp will be included in bar.cpp, which needs to acces the class in foo.cpp 13:38:14 <Darkvater> oh yes, I need to login and write something 13:38:56 <caladan> stillunknown: ok, so you have full prototype in .hpp 13:39:02 <peter1138> hehe 13:39:05 <caladan> with all methods 13:39:13 <peter1138> 12.5 m tiles makes a 2048x2048 map 25 km across :P 13:39:15 <Celestar> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0623143/M/ <= nice 13:39:15 <stillunknown> caladan: is that neccesary? 13:39:37 <caladan> that's how you do things like that 13:39:43 <Celestar> Brianetta: a standard-sized platform has afaik 7.2 meters between adjacent tracks with the platform in between. 13:39:45 <peter1138> stillunknown: yeah, it's not c# :) 13:39:50 <caladan> .hpp holds class prototype 13:40:01 <caladan> and .cpp holds bodies of functions 13:40:15 <Aracirion_> Celestar: I posted some airliners.net pics to show size relations earlier in the post 13:40:19 <Aracirion_> thread i mean 13:40:20 <Brianetta> Celestar: In the UK it's usually more ocmmon to have two platforms facing, with track between at the regular spacing 13:40:39 <stillunknown> peter1138: never used c# 13:41:02 <Aracirion_> Celestar: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29268&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=17 13:41:23 <Darkvater> he, they're changing the airco just above me 13:41:25 <Celestar> Brianetta: it depends, that is done here too, but the line throu my hometown is 4 tracks, so |||P| 13:41:29 * Darkvater moves out to safety 13:41:49 <Celestar> Aracirion_: already reading 13:42:21 <Aracirion_> I have to go have a shower, ill be back in 20 min or so 13:42:29 <Celestar> " 13:42:29 <Celestar> "And maps have to become larger anytime soon! 13:42:29 <Celestar> 2048 is not enough as it is now thats for sure. 13:42:30 <Celestar> Im thinking ATLEAST 8192x8192 (4 times bigger than max now) " 13:42:32 <Celestar> WTF? 13:42:54 <Celestar> people really need to GET A LIFE 13:42:55 <Aracirion_> Celestar: what? (bigger maps would be nice) 13:43:09 <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2k x 2k is the limit of what we can do. 13:43:31 <Celestar> a full 2k x 2k map gets my FX-57 near something like 100% load 13:44:03 <Aracirion_> Celestar: couldn't empty tiles be made to use hardly any resources? 13:44:04 <setrodox> i'm getting to a rather high capacitiy with 500 trains on a 512x512 map already :P 13:44:17 <setrodox> *load 13:44:28 <Celestar> Aracirion_: 1) well ... yes and no, but you still have to walk through them. 13:44:50 <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2) not every function is grateful enough to scale linearily with the map size. 13:44:52 <Aracirion_> maybe bigger maps should also have less industry/towns per square mile 13:44:52 * Brianetta pokes his server with a stick 13:45:23 <Aracirion_> could have quiote big lakes etc 13:45:46 <peter1138> 2048x2048 is plenty for that, imo 13:45:55 <Aracirion_> 2k is not bad yeah 13:46:05 <peter1138> 1024*1024 is pretty massive 13:47:32 <Darkvater> stillunknown: don't you want to use virtual functions for prototype class? Those don't need implementation only decleariont 13:48:01 <Celestar> Aracirion_: if you have a look at a state-of-the-art game, like Civilization IV, it cannot even handle 256x256 maps 13:48:06 <Aracirion_> yeah right I just had a look again, 2k is hardly used is it 13:48:13 <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2048x2048 is 64 times as many tiles. 13:48:28 <Aracirion_> so map size is ok 13:48:32 <stillunknown> Darkvater: you mean: myfunc(int a, int b); in the class 13:48:33 <Aracirion_> :) 13:48:44 <stillunknown> and myclass::myfunc outside? 13:48:51 <setrodox> we had one 2kx2k game on my server once, but we had to cancel it because of the load :P 13:48:55 <Aracirion_> so I think current map sizes would already allow some vehicles to be bigger etc. 13:49:03 <setrodox> though, we had mass amounts of ship on that one ^^ 13:50:34 <Darkvater> stillunknown: well donnu what you want to do, but for a pure class prototype you use virtual functions. These functions need to be implemented in inherited classes 13:50:47 <Darkvater> but I think you just wanted class-function declerations 13:51:05 <stillunknown> i'll look into virtual functions 13:51:26 <caladan> stillunknown: if you need help with that i can help :D 13:51:30 <stillunknown> i do have a strange problem 13:52:00 <stillunknown> i put the class in the header file 13:52:17 <stillunknown> and the actual functions (longer than a few lines) outside, in the cpp file, but somehow 13:52:23 <stillunknown> it's not picking those up 13:52:41 <caladan> and how you do write that? 13:52:46 <Darkvater> orudge: ping 13:52:48 <caladan> you must include that .hpp 13:52:52 <stillunknown> i did 13:53:22 <caladan> and got that class::method? 13:53:23 <stillunknown> i can show the code if you want 13:53:24 <orudge> Darkvater 13:53:40 <caladan> show 13:54:08 <stillunknown> header file 13:54:09 <stillunknown> http://rafb.net/p/TwenZl80.html 13:54:34 <stillunknown> cpp file 13:54:35 <stillunknown> http://rafb.net/p/pXciVZ50.html 13:54:53 <stillunknown> new_vehicle.[cpp,hpp] 13:55:28 <caladan> you didnt include that .hpp in .cpp 13:55:45 <stillunknown> #include "new_vehicle.hpp" 13:55:45 <caladan> ah, no sorry, it;s there 13:55:57 <caladan> and the error msg is? 13:56:21 <stillunknown> /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3486: warning: 'void TrainLocoHandler(Vehicle*, bool)' defined but not used 13:56:44 <stillunknown> /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3552: undefined reference to `Train::Tick()' 13:56:54 <stillunknown> that's a linker error 13:57:01 <stillunknown> and there was one i seem to miss 13:57:43 <stillunknown> just to be sure i did a clean, because i seem to miss one error 13:58:31 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:39 <caladan> and what is the compile command? 13:59:05 <stillunknown> /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/new_vehicle.hpp:78: warning: inline function 'void Train::Tick()' used but never defined 13:59:07 <stillunknown> just make 13:59:14 <alfons_winkel> hey which methods inside GameLoop call drawing methods? 13:59:20 <stillunknown> that error only happens the second time 13:59:40 <stillunknown> when i include the header were i want to use the class 14:00:24 <stillunknown> when compiling new_vehicle.cpp i don't get that errro 14:00:39 <stillunknown> the other errors seem to be gone 14:00:45 <Celestar> Aracirion_: I did post my opinion. 14:01:08 <caladan> and did you include that new_vehicle to the object list in make? 14:01:20 <stillunknown> source.list, ye 14:01:24 <stillunknown> *yes 14:01:33 <caladan> and you compile it to .o? 14:02:03 <stillunknown> the code on it's own is pretty useless, but yes the actual new_vehicle.cpp file compiles fine 14:02:33 <stillunknown> only when i try to acces the class from a place that doesn't define the actual function, it goes wrong 14:02:33 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 14:02:51 <stillunknown> so my idea of logic must not apply to what i'm trying to do 14:03:10 <caladan> and in train_cmd you got that new_vehicle.hpp included? 14:03:14 <stillunknown> yes 14:03:23 <Celestar> Brianetta: so a 25meter wide tile would carry like 6 tracks right? :S 14:03:41 <stillunknown> but only in new_vehicle.cpp is the declaration of Train::Tick 14:04:30 <stillunknown> do i have to use extern's somewhere or anything like that? 14:04:37 <Brianetta> Celestar: Hang on, let me read what led up to that 14:04:57 <caladan> hmm, dont think so... 14:05:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=542145#542145 <= shortcut to "what led up to that" 14:05:16 * Brianetta clicketififies 14:05:21 <caladan> something wrong wit includes and so on... 14:05:51 <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd say four was reasonable 14:06:02 <Celestar> Brianetta: yeah, but it is not going to happen anyway :P 14:06:26 <Celestar> Aracirion_: i'd even prefer a 32m tile :) 14:06:37 <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd like to see two with the current OTTD graphics 14:06:56 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, but that means about rewriting the vehicle handling code from scratch :P 14:07:04 <Brianetta> If you do a cut'n'paste mockup you'll see that you can get two per tile and it looks correct 14:07:05 <Celestar> and breaking savegame compability :P 14:07:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, it does. 14:07:13 <Brianetta> It just needs new map 14:07:38 <Brianetta> and for new map to include some way of switching regular tiles to "double tiles" 14:08:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: and how to move from "straight" to "diagonal" tracks? 14:08:30 <Brianetta> Celestar: squish something 14:08:37 <Celestar> Brianetta: well I have an idea... 14:08:45 <Celestar> but I'm not sure that works so well :P 14:08:48 * Celestar goes trying. 14:08:57 <Brianetta> Perhaps just exclude the possibility of diagonal double-track 14:09:18 <Celestar> no wait :P 14:10:15 <peter1138> if you want double track, make the tiles *smaller* 14:10:22 <peter1138> aka... zoom out :P 14:10:31 <Darkvater> lol 14:10:32 <hylje> :o 14:10:52 <Darkvater> now, /me looks through the screenshot forum 14:10:59 <hylje> maybe split the current tiles into four pieces for train collision use? 14:10:59 <Celestar> peter1138: sub-tiles :) 14:11:04 <Darkvater> and it's also soon about time to update the screenshots on the openttd websites ^_^ 14:11:28 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 14:12:19 <Aracirion_> Celestar: concerning realistic map sizes: vehicles have approximately realistic speed now, so if you want to fly a plane over 2000km that would take more than 2 hours! So I think distances don't need to be realistic 14:13:05 <hylje> openttd is totally not in scale 14:13:29 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@dns1.netanday.it] has joined #openttd 14:13:32 <Celestar> Aracirion_: time is a different thing 14:13:54 <Wolf01> hello 14:14:00 <Brianetta> ppcis.org/standard/dodgy.png 14:14:06 <Wolf01> is the svn server down? 14:14:22 <Brianetta> The extra two tiles (excluding reflections and rotations) needed to get to and from double-tiles 14:14:26 <Celestar> peter1138: what about some fractal approach? :P 14:14:35 <Brianetta> double-tiles only available orthogonally, not diagonally 14:15:07 <Purno> Darkvater , R U here? 14:15:32 <Aracirion_> Celestar: isn't it relevant to you post about a map being 65 km in length? 14:15:49 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-124-46-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 14:16:15 * Darkvater looks around 14:16:35 <Darkvater> Brianetta: missing a steady hand? :p 14:16:52 <Celestar> Aracirion_: I'm only talking about geometry here, not times 14:17:03 <Brianetta> Darkvater: I am, actually. My penmanship is no better. 14:17:16 <Aracirion_> ok ok 14:17:19 <Brianetta> Dysgraphia, caused by a lack of fine motor control 14:17:47 <Darkvater> is that related to eh.. seeing-colours-in-letters-anomaly? 14:17:53 <Darkvater> *swap* 14:18:00 <Celestar> damnit 14:18:01 <Brianetta> Devil has left the game (desync error) 14:18:03 <Brianetta> Caladan has left the game (desync error) 14:18:05 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 14:18:05 <Wolf01> !logs 14:18:06 <Brianetta> simultaneous 14:18:09 <Celestar> 4 parallel tiles by track is bitchy :P 14:18:10 <Aracirion_> Celestar: So my point is: you never look at the whole map at the same time, so its not so apparent that there's scaling going on. But you do see a jumbo jet beside a train/bus sometimes 14:18:13 <Brianetta> gam'e paused 14:18:22 <Celestar> Aracirion_: I agree 14:19:06 <Celestar> and the maximum length of a rail vehicle should be sqrt(2) * tile_size / 2 14:19:11 <Aracirion_> Celestar: That's why I propose to use the size of one human as refernce 14:19:31 <stillunknown> caladan: found my problem, i was trying to inline the function 14:19:44 <Aracirion_> Celestar: If planes ought to be smaller you could just as well make a cartoon-jumbo, which nontheless has a door big enough for such a homunculus 14:20:24 <Celestar> on a 32 meter tile, with 64x64 pixel tiles, a human would be 4x2 pixels 14:20:33 <Celestar> and jumbo jet would be 2x2 tiles. 14:20:41 <peter1138> stillunknown: now that's silly :P 14:20:56 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-125-222-27.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:57 <Celestar> now take 128x128 tiles and a human is 8x2 pixels or something 14:21:11 <Aracirion_> yeah right, but then that's a totally different approach from the onetaken 14:21:27 <Aracirion_> people are modelling at that scale right now: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:English_Village_h2.png 14:21:59 <Celestar> Aracirion_: yes I have seen it 14:22:05 <Aracirion_> I think we have to questions: 1) desirability and 2) doability 14:22:14 <Celestar> Aracirion_: I can tell you what is not doable: 14:22:34 <Celestar> 8192x8192 (and larger maps) with 256x256 pixels each 14:22:43 <Aracirion_> thats not necessary I think 14:23:07 <Aracirion_> 2k is quite big and would support the sizes in my testrender, don't you think? 14:23:10 * peter1138 desires the current scale ;p 14:23:31 <Celestar> peter1138: the scale is ok, but better and independent graphics are desirable 14:23:51 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-124-46-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:54 <KUDr_wrk> where is 32 bpp? 14:24:03 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-124-40-229.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 14:24:19 <stillunknown> KUDr_wrk: is it true that virtual functions are slow? 14:24:30 <Aracirion_> Celestar: anything else not possible? 14:25:14 <Celestar> Aracirion_: a different track layout to what we have now (at least for the time being) 14:25:21 <KUDr_wrk> stillunknown: if called offten then yes. Their execution cost is normal, but their call cost is 3..30x higher 14:27:09 * Darkvater likes the screenshot-forum 14:27:48 <Aracirion_> peter1138: It should be possible to switch between original size relations and new ones. The question is if Gfx artists should spend extra work to make other size relations possible 14:28:00 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 14:28:17 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net//files/kinston_railroad_02_106.png << ugh, this is what you get with PBS a huge web of brainless junctions 14:29:04 <Celestar> Darkvater: screenshot forum? 14:29:09 * Dominic instinctively just tried dragging the image to move around the map 14:29:17 <Celestar> Dominic: me too :P 14:29:29 <Darkvater> yeah 14:29:36 <Darkvater> subforum 14:29:42 <Celestar> ah 14:30:21 <Darkvater> last year there was a screenshot with a newspaper on it and I was pressing <space> to close it, and F1 to get the game unpaused 14:30:25 <Darkvater> really sad 14:30:47 <Brianetta> Darkvater: I clicked on my server webcam to open the detais of a crashed plane form the news article 14:30:59 <Darkvater> :D 14:31:24 <Celestar> peter1138: any idea when the plane units patch will be finished? as soon as it is, I'll start branching the balancing&economy branch :) 14:32:03 <Brianetta> Balancing (: 14:32:06 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-124-40-229.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:08 <Brianetta> might check out that branch 14:32:25 <Celestar> Brianetta: I hope that you'll run a server with it, because it does need TONS of testing. 14:32:48 <peter1138> planespeed :D 14:32:56 <Celestar> peter1138: see above :) 14:33:03 <peter1138> do you want rv units the same too? :p 14:33:07 <Brianetta> Celestar: I'll run it from home 14:33:09 <Celestar> peter1138: yes. 14:33:14 <peter1138> o_O 14:33:36 <Brianetta> My server server is getting a bit overcrowded 14:33:52 <Celestar> Brianetta: how much traffic does your server take (about?) 14:34:00 <Celestar> s/take/get 14:34:02 <Brianetta> Not sure 14:34:03 <Darkvater> isn't rv the same scale as trains? 14:34:08 <Darkvater> so therefore already correct? 14:34:08 <Brianetta> It's CPU that is the main cost 14:34:18 <Darkvater> if we take trains as a base 14:34:20 <peter1138> Darkvater: displayed speed, yes 14:34:21 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-125-222-185.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 14:34:24 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Vehicle are, track/road isn't 14:34:25 <peter1138> internally 255 = 127 mph 14:34:27 <Darkvater> ah but internally 14:34:29 <peter1138> roughly 14:34:31 <Celestar> Brianetta: ok how much do you run? 14:34:40 <Celestar> how many* 14:34:43 <peter1138> hmm 14:34:50 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 14:34:51 <Brianetta> There are three on my server, but they're rarely all unpaused together 14:34:59 <Brianetta> Both #openttdcoop servers and my Standard 14:35:04 <peter1138> or does it 14:35:16 <Brianetta> I used to run my deathmatch server from home 14:35:27 <peter1138> 127kmh 14:35:29 <Brianetta> so I'll run a balancing branch server there 14:35:29 <Celestar> peter1138: ok. if I give you access to a server, would you maintain it? :) 14:35:40 <Celestar> er 14:35:51 <Celestar> Brianetta: ok. if I give you access to a server, would you maintain it? :) 14:36:00 <Brianetta> Celestar: I could 14:36:01 <Celestar> like setting up maps and stuff? 14:36:03 <Celestar> good 14:36:04 <Brianetta> yes 14:36:11 <peter1138> i can run a server myself too 14:36:22 * peter1138 lunches 14:36:24 <Brianetta> How many are needed? 14:36:24 <Celestar> I'll get back to you as soon as I have some results :P 14:36:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: I'd start out with one and see what is happenning 14:36:43 <Celestar> s/nn/n 14:36:49 <Celestar> GNAH 14:36:55 <Celestar> can't ... type ... 14:37:05 * Brianetta adds another/ 14:37:20 <Celestar> Darkvater: station payment fix will be applied now :) 14:37:32 <Darkvater> good 14:37:40 <Brianetta> Celestar: If peter's rnning one, itmight make sense to use his. He traditionally runs a nightly in any case. 14:37:50 <Brianetta> It would also concentrate any players of that branch 14:37:53 <Celestar> Brianetta: cool 14:37:58 <Brianetta> of which there are unliekly to be hundreds 14:38:17 <Brianetta> Oh, I still have the Gimp running 14:38:23 <Brianetta> .me closes the dodgy tiles 14:38:32 <Brianetta> Can I have that slash back? 14:38:40 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:40:07 <Rubidium> Brianetta: would you mind if your standards server does some extra checks to (hopefully) find the cause of the desyncs? 14:40:34 <Brianetta> Rubidium: By all means. Just send a patch - new game tonight. 14:40:53 <Brianetta> I expect to have to test release candidates 14:41:36 <Rubidium> http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/check_caches.diff <- against 0.5.0-RC3 14:42:38 <CIA-1> celestar * r8144 /trunk/src/ (7 files): 14:42:38 <CIA-1> -Fix: [FS#163] When a station is removed, vehicles do not get excessive payment 14:42:38 <CIA-1> any longer, as the origin TILE is now stored as long as the origin STATION for 14:42:38 <CIA-1> the transported cargos. Basically this is only a temporary fix until 14:42:38 <CIA-1> cargopackets are implemented, but it fixes one of the oldest known bugs (Special 14:42:40 <CIA-1> Thanks to Darkvater for lots of testing) 14:42:57 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 14:44:00 *** setrodox__ [~setrodox@83-65-235-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 14:45:31 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-125-222-185.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:36 <Brianetta> Rubidium: If RC4 isn't out tonight, tht patch will be applied. If it is out, I'll see if it applies cleanly, else I'll get another from you. 14:46:06 <Darkvater> Rubidium: commented out cachec_max_te? 14:46:16 *** setrodox__ is now known as setrodox 14:46:23 <Rubidium> that's not in 0.5 (I think) 14:46:27 <Darkvater> well, I'm willing to delay RC4 a bit longer if this diff helps fixing (a) desync(s) 14:46:32 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 14:46:40 <Darkvater> oh yeah yo're right about that 14:51:45 <picitlama> if i don't build the train station next to the oil refinery, then the station doesnt accept oil. 14:51:53 <stillunknown> if things like u and v were abstracted into a call function, what would be preferable? 14:51:58 <picitlama> even if the distance is only one sqare. 14:52:24 <stillunknown> something like Get()->data 14:53:49 <Darkvater> picitlama: not all parts of an oil refinery accept oil, use the query tool and acceptance area to get the correct place 14:56:49 <picitlama> oh 14:57:00 <stillunknown> ignore my last question, it's not relevant anymore 15:02:38 <Purno> Darkvater : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=542156#542156 15:06:03 <Darkvater> checking 15:06:42 <Darkvater> I'll have to check isles of scilly 15:06:53 <Darkvater> last time I had a look at it, it was pretty crap 15:07:20 <Darkvater> using heightmap to create scenario != good scenario 15:07:37 <Darkvater> but thanks Purno, I think I'll have my job set out for me tonight :) 15:07:44 <hylje> Darkvater: regarding that, how hard would it be to show "caught" cargo along with accepts? 15:07:51 <Purno> Darkvater , yw :) 15:08:15 <Darkvater> hylje: caught cargo? 15:08:23 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:30 <hylje> Darkvater: the cargo the station area collects from nearby industries 15:08:43 <Darkvater> ah; hard cause that's not how the system is set up 15:08:53 <hylje> ok 15:09:00 <Darkvater> but basically: if acceptance are touches *any* tile of an industry it gets cargo 15:09:06 <Darkvater> area 15:09:52 <Darkvater> you exluded your own scenario? :) 15:09:55 <Darkvater> Purno that is 15:10:49 <Purno> Darkvater , yeah 15:10:50 <Purno> I did 15:10:57 <Purno> Others were better 15:11:08 <Darkvater> :) 15:11:13 <Purno> well, it's only an advice anyways :P 15:11:24 <Purno> If you think you want a 2048x64 scenario included :P 15:11:34 <Darkvater> he 15:13:35 <Aracirion_> hm so is there any progress on the size relations? 15:16:10 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 15:19:16 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29670 15:19:17 <Darkvater> hehe 15:19:20 <Darkvater> DaleStan scores again 15:19:50 <Darkvater> Aracirion_: not really besides that we'd like to keep existing sizerelations 15:20:12 <Darkvater> that carpark picture is nice though 15:22:01 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: So 90% alternative size relations will never be coded? 15:22:30 <hylje> Aracirion_: relative size will be relevant given a 3d engine 15:22:40 <hylje> Aracirion_: with sprites it isnt really feasible.. it just doesnt scale as nicely 15:23:00 <Aracirion_> hylie: have you read the thread about size relations? 15:23:04 <hylje> no 15:23:11 <Aracirion_> hylie: could you please? 15:23:20 <hylje> i have coding to do 15:23:26 <Darkvater> 90% TTD-like or 90% changed? 15:23:44 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: I mean 90% probability it won't be coded 15:24:05 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 15:24:17 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: because then quite a different approach should be taken on modeling 15:24:31 <Darkvater> based on a reasonable timescale, I don't see much probability this being coded for the current OpenTTD project by the current developers 15:25:29 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: could you write something along that line in the forum thread? it would really require that the whole newgfx concept be changed 15:26:13 <Darkvater> ok. Will do that once at home(+- 1 hour) 15:26:19 <Darkvater> eh +- 1-2 hours 15:26:20 <Aracirion_> Darkvater: thanx 15:29:18 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:55 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F1592.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:33:09 <peter1138> hmm 15:33:19 <peter1138> Darkvater: but! i wanted to hardcode carparks! 15:33:26 <peter1138> they'll look really cool in 1920 15:33:34 <hylje> :o 15:34:19 <Darkvater> he, a HUGE station with a carpark and 2 cars in it for the elite 15:37:18 *** Aracirion_ [~Aracirion@c-82-192-249-219.customer.ggaweb.ch] has quit [Quit: Aracirion_] 15:41:12 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 15:41:28 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 15:41:57 <KUDr_wrk> wow, they repaired my Internet 15:42:05 <peter1138> woohoo 15:42:11 <peter1138> quicker than mine i guess? 15:42:17 <hylje> :o 15:42:22 <KUDr_wrk> i called them today morning 15:42:36 <KUDr_wrk> it was crap from yesterday 15:42:45 <Darkvater> :) 15:43:19 <Brianetta> Darkvater: There's a parenthesis mis-match in your SergeyS post 15:43:25 <peter1138> bah, i'm hungry again now 15:44:45 <Darkvater> will fix tonight 15:44:48 <Darkvater> or someone can edit 15:46:06 <peter1138> you'll fix up some food for me? 15:46:27 <Darkvater> what ya want? 15:49:06 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 15:51:04 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:53:25 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:34 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:28 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:47 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:56:02 <Belugas> #I want to rock'n'roll all night 15:56:09 <hylje> nice comment 15:56:49 <Belugas> mmh... just the wrong channel, i guess ^^ 15:57:49 <Brianetta> Ban lists need a subnet mask 15:58:00 <Brianetta> I can't type in the IPs from a /18 15:58:03 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:03 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 15:58:56 <Darkvater> it doesn't recognise it? 15:59:20 <Darkvater> you're getting the same 'clientid not found' problem still? 15:59:38 <Darkvater> have you tried outside rcon/autopilot? 16:00:04 <Brianetta> No, just banning a nob 16:00:19 <Brianetta> so I whois his IP 16:00:22 <Brianetta> and it's dynamic 16:01:03 <Brianetta> 85.10.37.39 is part of 85.10.0.0/18 16:01:44 <Darkvater> ah 16:01:48 <Darkvater> what's that /18? 16:01:52 <caladan> mask 16:02:00 <caladan> How many bits are in local network 16:02:19 <caladan> More-less :D 16:02:28 <Darkvater> ? 16:02:32 <Darkvater> < network noob 16:02:36 <Brianetta> It's the nu,ber of bits that are notinthe network 16:02:39 <caladan> When you have IP 16:02:51 <Brianetta> 255.0.0.0 = /8 16:02:54 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B804AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:55 <Brianetta> 255.255.0.0 = /16 16:03:00 <Brianetta> 255.255.255.0 = /24 16:03:08 <caladan> right 16:03:16 <Darkvater> ah 16:03:22 <caladan> and then if you want to show a whole network, just show IP and netmask 16:03:35 <caladan> and it will do like, if IP&NETMASK == NET_IP 16:03:49 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:03:49 <caladan> then that IP fits into that subne 16:04:16 <Brianetta> 18 is 255.255.64.0 16:04:22 <Brianetta> I think 16:04:31 <Brianetta> or 63 16:04:35 * Brianetta shrugs 16:04:35 <caladan> nope 16:04:39 <Brianetta> anyway, it's plenty of IPs 16:04:53 <Brianetta> and I ain't typing them all in 16:05:05 <Brianetta> My openttd.cfg would be humongous 16:05:10 <caladan> you're wrong, not... 16:05:17 <caladan> not 255.255.64.0 16:05:30 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84D2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:05:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:05:33 <caladan> last nonzero must be odd 16:05:44 <caladan> that's the first thing 16:05:51 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498F888.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:15 <stillunknown> Darkvater: is there code in the train "control" that is considered ugly and for what reason? 16:06:58 <stillunknown> i know it's not pretty, but i'd like to know the shortcomings before trying to change it 16:07:42 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:07:43 <Darkvater> the whole code is considered 'ugly' 16:08:32 <Celestar> it's not THAT ugly anymore 16:08:36 <caladan> 255.255.192.0 == /18 16:08:44 <Celestar> it used to be much worse 16:09:12 * peter1138 replaces all map accessors with shifts and masks 16:09:19 <Celestar> lol 16:09:32 <Celestar> guys ... about balancing... 16:09:39 <peter1138> yeah? 16:09:43 <stillunknown> I have begun trying to approach the situation with more class, but i'm unsure what to do with some things, or what larger changes are desirable 16:09:52 <Celestar> I was pondering over the catchment areas, and I don't like the way they behave. 16:10:13 <peter1138> indeed, they suck 16:10:18 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 16:10:22 <caladan> stillunknown: dont do too many classes, you know KISS rule? 16:10:28 <Celestar> especially big airports + station walking cheat. 16:10:33 <Celestar> so I came up with an idea. 16:10:36 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:36 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 16:10:38 <Dextro> KISS rockz :P 16:10:38 <stillunknown> KISS rule, no 16:10:59 <Celestar> and I wanna know your opinions on this. 16:11:04 <setrodox> stillunknown, it's "keep it simple, stupid" ;) 16:11:04 <Dextro> KISS the band I personally never eared them :P 16:11:05 <caladan> Keep It Simple Stupid :-) 16:11:25 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [] 16:11:29 <Celestar> The current radii stay unchanged, but first of all there is an idea of a "principal station" 16:11:32 <caladan> If you got like 10 classes to desribe one simple thing, that's wrong 16:11:41 <stillunknown> 4 currently 16:11:51 <stillunknown> generic vehicle, train, generic car, traincar 16:11:54 <Celestar> the principal station is that one that defines the catchment radius. 16:11:56 <stillunknown> not exactly those names 16:11:56 <caladan> You know UML> 16:12:09 <peter1138> Celestar: i'd say it should simply reflect what's on the map, heh 16:12:10 <stillunknown> me, no 16:12:17 <peter1138> rather than just be a huge rectangle 16:12:29 <Celestar> however, if any "lower" station is added to the principal station, (like a bus stop to an airport), the catchment does NOT change. 16:12:34 <Brianetta> Walking stations to the city centre = lame-arsed 16:12:57 <Celestar> also, things like railways stations have a total maximum catchment length. 16:12:59 <Celestar> and width 16:13:06 <stillunknown> caladan: ? 16:13:11 <Celestar> like 8x8 tiles or 10x10 or something. 16:13:24 <peter1138> then your huge station can only catch itself 16:13:35 <caladan> stillunknown: it's describing classes, i dont know if that classes have you know, consistency.. 16:13:49 <Celestar> peter1138: dunno yet :P 16:14:33 <Celestar> peter1138: another option would be to have unconnected rail tiles to not count towards the catchment radius. 16:14:34 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:16:22 <Celestar> peter1138: what do you think about the effort to improve the trolly AI by some user :) 16:17:06 <peter1138> if it works, good 16:17:23 <peter1138> our other AI seems to be hit by unfixed bugs 16:17:34 <Celestar> peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net//files/mpai_862.png <= this is how it works 16:17:39 <peter1138> but none of us use the AI to notice it 16:17:52 <Celestar> peter1138: because it is so messy that no one wants to meddle with it 16:17:56 <peter1138> indeed 16:18:10 <stillunknown> is it possible to abstract struct_ptr->variable, into something that still allows --, ++, =, etc? 16:18:26 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: how easy/difficult would it be to use YAPF for AI? 16:18:41 <Celestar> stillunknown: if variable is one of the basic types, it should work, should it not? 16:18:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E3D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:11 <peter1138> i think a decent AI needs to plan its route in advance 16:20:19 <peter1138> and keep state 16:20:36 <Celestar> peter1138: I think a decent AI places the route in one go. 16:20:36 <Brianetta> That shot of the IA is yuck 16:20:43 <Brianetta> two stations per train 16:20:44 <Brianetta> not good 16:20:52 <peter1138> Celestar: that's not fair game wise though :) 16:21:04 <Celestar> Brianetta: it's a huge step up from what we have now. 16:21:05 <peter1138> i'd say it should plan the route in one go 16:21:09 *** Rens2Oblivion [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 16:21:10 <peter1138> and then try to build it 16:21:13 <peter1138> step by step 16:21:25 <Celestar> and then place 2, 4, 6 trackbits per second? :P 16:21:28 <peter1138> replan "if it needs to" 16:21:31 <Celestar> depending on difficulty 16:21:37 <Brianetta> peter1138: It could buy all the squares really quickly 16:21:38 <peter1138> yeah 16:21:42 <Brianetta> and then build track more slowly 16:21:45 <peter1138> hmm 16:21:49 <Brianetta> Giving you a chance to serve first 16:22:02 <Brianetta> or even race for a subsidy 16:24:14 * Celestar dreams of a code where there is one, and only one, pathfinder 16:24:21 <stillunknown> Celestar: let's say i make a function to return a variable, i still won't be able to modify it, a pointer doesn't seem to be the anser 16:24:25 <Celestar> pathfinder: there can be only one 16:26:04 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:34 <Celestar> stillunknown: er what 16:26:52 <caladan> stillunknown: what exactly you want to do? 16:26:52 <stillunknown> i'll tell you by example 16:26:59 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: possible, pf itself is ready for any kind of routes. But something like current track follower must be done that will be able to walk throug clear tiles, trees, etc. Maybe few weeks. 16:27:16 <stillunknown> if i want to abstract v->speed into a function Speed() 16:27:27 <stillunknown> if i return a pointer i can't increment it 16:27:38 <stillunknown> if i return a value, i can only read it 16:27:57 <peter1138> just using v->speed directly is probably good enough... 16:27:59 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:00 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: but at some point we can "convert" trolly-ai to yapf without too much effort, right? 16:28:21 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: yes, it should be possible 16:28:25 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: we're not really in a hurry there 16:28:26 <Celestar> good 16:28:28 <caladan> why not to use inline incspeed()? 16:28:30 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 16:29:06 <Celestar> er no 16:29:07 <stillunknown> caladan: some things are not used enough to justify many functions 16:29:12 <KUDr_wrk> stillunknown: better to use usual way: GetSpeed()/SetSpeed() 16:29:17 <Celestar> Vehicle::operator ++ 16:29:23 <KUDr_wrk> :)) 16:29:27 <caladan> Hmm, that wont work 16:29:36 <Celestar> er wait that increases the vehicle :P 16:29:37 <stillunknown> i don't want overload the operator for the entire class 16:29:37 <caladan> I mean, it can, but it isn't clear 16:29:43 <Darkvater> ugh stuck for another 30 minutes 16:29:46 <Celestar> stillunknown: yeah got it :P 16:30:02 <caladan> so do a speed class :P 16:30:04 <Darkvater> I don't think we should get _too_ carried away here with classes 16:30:22 <Darkvater> if v->speed++ is enough, there does not need to be a v.increasespeed() function 16:30:22 <peter1138> hee, i've got a plane taking off at 50mph 16:30:28 <Darkvater> just cause it's cpp 16:30:47 <caladan> ok, but there's need for v->checkspeed(); 16:30:55 <stillunknown> i'm considering if abstracting everything is possible, appearantly not 16:31:02 <hylje> peter1138: fun with speeds? 16:31:10 <peter1138> abstracting for the sake of abstracting, eh? 16:31:16 <caladan> it is, but there is no need to do all in classes 16:31:19 <caladan> let it be ++ 16:31:20 <Brianetta> 200 planes 16:31:28 <Brianetta> that player is choking the skies 16:31:49 <caladan> Sh*t, true , 192 planes :D 16:31:49 <CIA-1> belugas * r8145 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Featurette: Allow for Tropic Farm to plant fields after producing cargo, like its counterpart in temperate climate. 16:32:08 <Darkvater> o_O incorrect commit message! 16:32:18 <peter1138> Fix! 16:32:22 <Darkvater> lol peter1138 16:32:23 <peter1138> Fixette 16:32:28 <Darkvater> @ other 16:32:40 <Celestar> rofl 16:32:50 <stillunknown> peter1138: the way vehicle data is stored might change at some point 16:32:53 <Celestar> Brianetta: I has 170 the other day :P 16:33:06 <peter1138> stillunknown: i somehow suspect that speed will stay a variable 16:33:11 <Brianetta> Well, they don't grind like ships 16:33:21 <Brianetta> I might cap it at 100 per player 16:33:23 <peter1138> no pathfinding, heh 16:33:24 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h208214.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:33:24 <Brianetta> not sure 16:33:29 <stillunknown> peter1138: it was just an example, but in this case yes 16:33:29 <Belugas> hey... i'm just following your footsteps, peter1138 :D 16:33:46 <peter1138> :D 16:34:11 <caladan> Brianetta: guess that he could reduse half of these planes, as they stay at airports most of the time... 16:34:19 <Brianetta> yes 16:34:23 <Brianetta> or in holding 16:34:44 <Brianetta> I think I'll cap planes at 100 and ships at 40 in future 16:34:48 <SpComb> use xml for openttd savegame files! 16:35:22 <hylje> xml and javascript! 16:35:58 <caladan> and java and C# 16:36:03 <Darkvater> cleartext! 16:36:05 <Rubidium> yeah, making the whole savegame format will solve a lot of issue; also those nasty desync issues 16:36:17 <Darkvater> #vehicle current speed: threehundredfiftysix# 16:36:25 <Darkvater> #vehicle number: zero# 16:36:30 <Celestar> hm? 16:36:39 <caladan> use brainfuck ;-) 16:36:43 <Darkvater> he's sarcastic 16:36:48 <SpComb> and then use the gecko rendering engine for the OpenTTD GUI 16:37:04 <SpComb> newgrfs could be css files with js resources 16:37:19 <caladan> or let users make up all togheter with Paint! 16:37:25 <hylje> :o 16:37:36 <Proeliator> when u guys start a new game, do u start with passengers/mail or goods? :) 16:37:44 <hylje> coal 16:37:46 <SpComb> starting with goods is hard 16:37:57 <Celestar> BAH 16:38:12 <caladan> but few buses build up cities :-) 16:38:13 <Darkvater> start with valuables! 16:38:17 <peter1138> freight 16:38:22 <peter1138> coal if i'm lazy 16:38:27 <Brianetta> wood 16:38:32 * Darkvater always starts with goods 16:38:45 <peter1138> wood or iron-ore for something that needs a chain 16:38:56 <peter1138> farms suck too much 16:39:40 <Belugas> start a new game? Mmmh... I never do that... I just test code! 16:39:53 <Belugas> If it compiles, it's fine :D 16:40:31 <Celestar> lol 16:40:31 *** jonty_comp [~jonty@88-107-41-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:54 <Darkvater> yeah wood's good 16:41:06 <jonty_comp> Hey there, I'm having some trouble making RC3 work on my dedicated server :( 16:41:15 <Darkvater> but as soon as I have a few million I invest in a lumber-mills, set up the route and let the cash roll in 16:41:21 <jonty_comp> I compiled it with ./configure --dedicated, and did ./openttd -D 16:41:28 <jonty_comp> But it gives a Segmentation Error 16:41:39 <jonty_comp> dbg: [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111 16:41:39 <jonty_comp> dbg: [NET][UDP] Advertising to master server 16:41:39 <jonty_comp> Segmentation fault 16:41:57 <jonty_comp> Did I do something wrong? RC2 worked fine 16:42:49 <Darkvater> using any newgrf files? 16:43:05 <jonty_comp> Yup, all the UKRS ones 16:43:13 <jonty_comp> Should I try commenting them out? 16:43:19 <Rubidium> jonty_comp: ok, wild guess: open newgrf.c, go to line 2421 and change the 'grfmsg(7, ' to DEBUG(grf, 7)(' 16:43:27 <jonty_comp> Ok, I'll try htat 16:43:29 <jonty_comp> *that 16:43:47 <Darkvater> Rubidium: the wild guess is 100% correct 16:44:07 <jonty_comp> Heh 16:45:11 <Rubidium> well, at the moment I wrote (that part) it I didn't know he was using grfs 16:45:13 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:45:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:45:48 <jonty_comp> Compiling now... 16:46:05 <Darkvater> Bjarni: ... 16:46:11 <Darkvater> Bjarni: Rubidium wants a word with you 16:46:48 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:01 <picitlama> good old MiHaMiX. 16:47:04 <hylje> word 16:47:10 <Bjarni> sentense 16:47:20 <picitlama> paragraph? 16:47:39 <hylje> chapter 16:47:47 <Bjarni> novel 16:47:52 <hylje> book 16:48:00 <Bjarni> library 16:48:00 <picitlama> bookshelf 16:48:03 <Bjarni> internet 16:48:07 <Darkvater> idiot 16:48:10 <Bjarni> hah, now I outdid you :P 16:48:10 <hylje> internets 16:48:30 <Rubidium> Darkvater: huh? 16:48:42 <Bjarni> nobody said anything about politics 16:48:47 <Bjarni> or lack hereof 16:48:51 <jonty_comp> Hmm 16:48:53 <jonty_comp> newgrf.c:2423: warning: implicit declaration of function âtestâ 16:48:53 <jonty_comp> newgrf.c:2423: warning: passing argument 1 of âdebugâ makes pointer from integer without a cast 16:48:53 <jonty_comp> make: *** [newgrf.o] Error 1 16:49:07 <jonty_comp> I didn't edit THAT line :o 16:49:15 <Rubidium> how does line 2421 look? 16:49:44 <Darkvater> Rubidium: v->insteant_depot_leave? 16:49:56 * Bjarni shares a word with Rubidium 16:49:57 <Bjarni> done 16:50:04 <Rubidium> oh, that, got no definite proof for that (yet) 16:50:08 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 16:50:21 <jonty_comp> Rubidium: DEBUG (grf, 7)( "GRFID 0x%08X unknown, skipping test", 16:51:13 <Rubidium> nothing after the comma? 16:51:36 <jonty_comp> BSWAP32(cond_val)); is on the next line 16:53:48 <Rubidium> can you revert newgrf.c and apply http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/newgrf-0.5.0-rc3.diff ? 16:54:39 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@dns1.netanday.it] has quit [] 16:55:06 <jonty_comp> I think so 16:57:09 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 16:58:35 <Bjarni> Rubidium: you wanted to tell me something? 16:59:19 <Rubidium> that v->instant_depot_leave can be different for server and client, but I'm not certain whether that is the case when it is actually used. 17:00:26 <Rubidium> Brianetta: is going to run his server with a patch to check whether it happens or not and maybe we will find the cause of his desyncs :) 17:01:15 <peter1138> hmm 17:01:23 <Bjarni> it's always false except that it can be set when a vehicle enters a depot during the vehicle loop. When the loop is done, all vehicles entering a depot this tick will get autoreplaced if needed and if they got this flag set, they will be started again and the flag is reset 17:01:55 <Bjarni> doing the autoreplace in the vehicle loop fucked up the game as the number of vehicles should be constant during the loop 17:02:04 <Rubidium> Bjarni: that is _not_ true. You can easily verify that 17:02:42 <Bjarni> well, it is my solution to the fact that we got asserts when replacing in the loop 17:03:07 <Bjarni> and it is not supposed to work this way 17:03:18 <Bjarni> if it's not working like this, then it's a bug 17:03:53 <Rubidium> yeah, but it is only a bug when it happens to be the case when the variable is read when it is not written in the same game tick/frame. 17:04:57 <Bjarni> at the end of each vehicle loop, all vehicles are looped and then no vehicle should have this flag set 17:05:21 <Bjarni> if it's set anyway, then it's a bug in the clearing of the flag or something 17:06:57 <jonty_comp> Yay, it's working now 17:07:07 <jonty_comp> Thanks for that, I'll keep the diff handy 17:07:45 <Brianetta> I have teh patchz0rz 17:08:19 <Bjarni> Rubidium: you got an issue with that flag? 17:08:21 <Rubidium> Bjarni: apply http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/leave-depot-instantly-not-reset.diff and just let it run for a while in the introgame 17:08:34 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 17:08:41 <Brianetta> Rubidium: If you have ssh and would find it useful, I can add your key to the openttd server's account 17:09:23 <Rubidium> Brianetta: it's not needed at the moment. 17:09:31 *** scia_ [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:36 <Brianetta> patching file vehicle.c 17:09:36 <Brianetta> patching file vehicle.h 17:09:36 <Brianetta> patching file openttd.c 17:09:40 <Brianetta> Patch applied cleanly 17:10:20 <Brianetta> make DEBUG:=3 ? 17:10:28 <Rubidium> not needed 17:10:36 <Brianetta> I'll set it to 1 17:10:46 <Brianetta> which is my usual 17:11:04 <Rubidium> I only need to know if it spams the console with inconsistency warnings 17:11:25 <Rubidium> and a savegame from just before it starts with those warning would be greatly appreciated :) 17:11:26 <Brianetta> Which debug_level is that? 17:11:35 <Celestar> Brianetta: I've added some minor stuff to the balancing script 17:11:39 <Celestar> draft 17:11:40 <Celestar> whatever 17:11:58 <peter1138> Brianetta: it's not :) 17:12:04 <Rubidium> it doesn't use debug, it uses printf 17:12:04 <peter1138> lol 17:12:09 <Brianetta> Excellent (: 17:12:10 <peter1138> bjarni :D 17:12:21 <Brianetta> because I turn the default net=2 off 17:12:29 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/the-future.pdf <= please anyone tell me what you think :) 17:13:07 <Brianetta> Wow, compiling takes a while if your OpenTTD server is actually up and running... 17:13:24 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 17:13:31 <Brianetta> Hey pathmaster 17:13:36 <Celestar> heya KUDr 17:13:39 <KUDr> hey 17:14:23 <peter1138> Brianetta: or... if you're using my pc 17:14:40 <Brianetta> heh (: 17:14:47 <Brianetta> My server's only a P4 1800 17:14:54 <Brianetta> It's not a modern powerhouse 17:15:06 <caladan> wht's the OS? 17:15:10 <Brianetta> I thought it'd just be dishing out web pages 17:15:15 <Brianetta> Trustix Secure Linux 17:15:34 <caladan> Wow :-) 17:16:02 <caladan> maybe libs are compiled for i386? :> 17:16:23 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:48 <Bjarni> Rubidium: well, after reading the code (not your diff) I will have to say that it's not set correctly. I'm not sure if it matters though since the code is able to unset this flag when entering a depot where it is supposed to stay 17:16:52 <Bjarni> I will fix this anyway 17:17:46 <jonty_comp> Hey, I had to apply that patch to my local openttd too, does that mean anyone with my grfs has to? 17:17:48 <Brianetta> I might have to turn on autosave 17:17:50 <Celestar> Brianetta: you literally need to sort out your priorities :P 17:17:57 <Brianetta> Celestar: I have done 17:18:03 <Celestar> ok :) 17:18:04 <peter1138> Brianetta: "only" ? 17:18:05 <Brianetta> openttd Standard is niced to 5 17:18:11 <Brianetta> the #openttdcoop ones to 10 17:18:21 <peter1138> Brianetta: that's a ghz faster than my pc :) 17:18:38 <Brianetta> peter1138: I sometimes run a server on my Celeron 433 server 17:18:42 <Brianetta> the one in the house 17:18:54 <Brianetta> from which I am IRCing in screen 17:19:47 <Celestar> Brianetta: we need dual-core servers :P 17:19:53 <Brianetta> yes 17:20:03 <Brianetta> with 4 dual-core CPUs 17:20:15 *** jonty_comp [~jonty@88-107-41-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:15 <Celestar> that could run abupt 16 servers :) 17:20:16 <Brianetta> in my 1U case 17:20:23 <Celestar> hehe 17:20:37 <Brianetta> and my 0.5amp power 17:20:37 <caladan> how much RAM on that 433? 17:20:50 <Celestar> HR HR 17:20:56 <Celestar> "please expedite vacating" 17:21:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: you'll laugh, I did that once 17:21:03 <Brianetta> 190MB, I think 17:21:21 <Celestar> Brianetta: I've tried running openTTD on a 32-thread Sun Niagara Server 17:21:32 <Celestar> Brianetta: it worked, and it pullsed about 140 Watts 17:21:36 <Celestar> with 32 threads 17:21:42 *** scia_ [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:21:45 <Celestar> only xosview kind of sucked :P 17:21:53 <caladan> I got P3-500 with 300MB ram to run openttd and it's ok for few players :-) 17:21:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:22:11 <Celestar> it was ok for 512x512 maps at most 17:22:15 <blathijs> Celestar: How did you get ottd to use 32 threads? :-) 17:22:18 <Brianetta> I started running my nightly server on my Celeron at home 17:22:25 <Celestar> blathijs: starting 32 dedicated servers :) 17:22:25 <Brianetta> before I transferred it to sarah 17:23:02 <blathijs> Celestar: ah :-) 17:23:08 <Celestar> blathijs: each thread itself was rather slow (a 512x512 map with about 250 trains maxed it). 17:23:10 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387F3E9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:23:17 <Celestar> but the thread gatling-gun took care of the rest :P 17:23:23 <hylje> ottd needs improved network stuff 17:23:36 <hylje> to allow for several servers on the same port/IP 17:23:47 <Celestar> why? 17:23:51 <blathijs> same port is technically impossible 17:23:53 <Celestar> I mean why same port? 17:23:59 <Celestar> it makes little sense 17:24:14 <hylje> well, to not have a fuckton of different ports on a hueg server 17:24:15 <Celestar> blathijs: nope, you could add the PID to each server in the packet :P and only sniff packets for you :P 17:24:26 <hylje> :D 17:24:41 <Celestar> hylje: you HAVE a fuckton of unused ports anyway ... 17:25:02 <peter1138> you need different ports or multiple IPs 17:25:04 <KUDr> Celestar: pssible on UDP 17:25:07 <peter1138> ports is more sensible 17:25:08 <KUDr> but not TCP 17:25:18 <Celestar> KUDr: I *was* kind of kidding :P 17:25:28 <KUDr> heh, then yes 17:25:40 <Celestar> how much is a fuckton anyway 17:25:41 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CBB1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:47 <Celestar> :P 17:26:12 <Celestar> hylje: believe me, you have more ports in your stack than you can sensibly be running openttd dedicated servers :P 17:26:17 <Brianetta> 65535 - 1024 17:26:50 <Celestar> ruffly, yes 17:27:36 <caladan> what other services eat up that many ports? :> 17:27:43 <Celestar> I'm off 17:27:44 <KUDr> Celestar: any progress with http://bugs.openttd.org/task/552 ? 17:27:50 <Celestar> KUDr: looking 17:28:12 <Celestar> KUDr: yes, adding glx.h to variables.h fixed it 17:28:25 <KUDr> so commit it.. 17:28:26 <Celestar> KUDr: it happens only on very few g++ses it seems 17:29:41 <KUDr> didn't happen for you? 17:29:44 <stillunknown> why should there be a check for stations or invalid rail, when staying in the same tile? 17:29:58 <Celestar> KUDr: only on one out of four computers 17:30:09 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 17:30:10 <KUDr> hmm 17:31:36 <stillunknown> train_cmd.cpp, around line 3000, TrainController 17:32:05 <CIA-1> celestar * r8146 /trunk/src/variables.h: -Fix (FS#552, r8038): a C/C++ linkage problem on some very few incarnations of gcc 17:32:14 <Celestar> I needa go 17:32:21 <Celestar> Brianetta: please feedback on the new document :) 17:32:34 <Brianetta> Going home. Any last minute requests (patches etc) I'll be back in about 40 minutes. 17:32:42 <Brianetta> Celestar: I see the catchment calcs 17:32:44 <CIA-1> bjarni * r8147 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: 17:32:44 <CIA-1> -Fix: [autoreplace] v->leave_depot_instantly was not always reset correctly 17:32:44 <CIA-1> While it's not certain if this would have any serious sideeffects (or any at all), it's reset when intended now 17:32:48 <Celestar> Brianetta: good 17:32:59 <Brianetta> Perhaps a big fee for big stations, too 17:33:08 <Celestar> Brianetta: it will be anyway 17:33:09 <Brianetta> so that two stations inthe same area work out cheaper to maintain 17:33:09 <caladan> I like idea of coal and other raw materials waiting patiently for pickup 17:33:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: because it will be per-tile 17:33:23 <Celestar> caladan: good :> 17:33:33 <Bjarni> Rubidium: now it should be solved (even if I think it wouldn't matter) 17:33:49 *** Lisby [~rendmig@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:34:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:34:24 <Bjarni> KUDr: do you plan to be online next weekend? 17:34:31 <KUDr> yes 17:34:35 <Bjarni> good 17:34:42 <KUDr> obj_C++? 17:34:50 <Bjarni> because then I will attempt to try objC++ 17:34:56 <KUDr> wow 17:34:56 <Wolf01> hello 17:35:04 <Bjarni> I haven't got the time before the weekend to try something as big as that 17:35:24 <KUDr> Bjarni: prepare VNC server 17:35:29 <KUDr> so i can watch 17:35:56 <Bjarni> I tried to compile cocoa_v.m as obj-C++, but it failed big time due to incorrect types and stuff 17:36:08 <Bjarni> vnc is still blocked for incoming access 17:36:13 <KUDr> not problem 17:36:18 <KUDr> grr 17:36:32 <Bjarni> bbl 17:36:33 <KUDr> ok, i will prepare webex 17:36:54 <Bjarni> I got stuff to do and I hang around on IRC, I will not work on the right stuff :P 17:37:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:03 *** Green-devil [~spam@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:42:07 <stillunknown> anyone familiar with/made the TrainController function? 17:43:17 * Wolf01 is syncing the patches 17:43:22 * Wolf01 does the rain dance 17:43:47 <Celestar> stillunknown: slightly but I'm on my wait out so hurry 17:44:24 <stillunknown> what's the use of checking a train station will be entered when staying in the same tile? 17:44:57 <stillunknown> as the TrainEnterStation seems to have no affect or speed 17:46:36 <stillunknown> Celestar: same for invalid rail check 17:48:17 <Celestar> stillunknown: stanby 17:48:44 <stillunknown> *affect on speed 17:49:44 <Celestar> stillunknown: the VehicleEnterTile returns only 0x2 if the Train STOPS. 17:49:46 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h208214.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:00 <Celestar> stillunknown: otherwise VehicleEnterTile modifies the speed. 17:50:10 <Celestar> peter1138: we gotta change that. 17:50:32 <stillunknown> thank you, i think i'll change that beheaviour 17:50:38 <Celestar> peter1138: only the TrainController should modify things like the speed 17:50:52 *** alfons_winkel [~alfonswin@84-72-156-17.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: alfons_winkel] 17:52:25 <peter1138> hmm? 17:52:26 <Celestar> ok really out now 17:52:49 <Celestar> peter1138: VehicleEnterTile should be given a (const Vehicle *) not a (Vehicle *) imho 17:52:51 <peter1138> oh, for bridge speed limit 17:52:59 <Celestar> peter1138: or station entrance 17:53:14 * Celestar will try to implement that later 17:53:18 <Celestar> cu later 17:54:03 <peter1138> heh, along with more prediction, they should, imho, set a target speed and let the acceleration function handle stopping 17:54:19 <peter1138> but it can't stop on a dime, which is needed 17:54:28 <stillunknown> peter1138: you understand what VehicleEnterTile does? 17:54:44 <peter1138> yes, it's called when a vehicle... enters... a tile 17:57:00 <stillunknown> no it's called when staying in a tile 17:57:09 <stillunknown> and it's not exactly clear how it modifies speed 17:58:10 <peter1138> how? it sets the speed... 17:58:20 <peter1138> hmm, yes, EnterTile was a bad name 17:58:47 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-157-43.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:58:48 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-157-43.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 18:02:02 <peter1138> stillunknown: what's unclear about it? it's not elegant or clean, but... 18:03:35 *** Empero [empero@host-212-149-222-156.kpylaajakaista.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:52 *** Empero [empero@212.149.222.156] has joined #openttd 18:05:55 <stillunknown> peter1138: i seem to understand it now 18:06:03 <peter1138> "seem to"? heh 18:07:26 <peter1138> lol 18:07:30 <peter1138> these planes are funny 18:09:15 <caladan> what planes? 18:09:34 <hylje> :o 18:12:42 <peter1138> these! 18:13:23 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-76.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 18:13:55 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 18:14:46 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:56 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:19:26 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157117.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:22:25 <peter1138> hmm, this speed thing is fragile 18:26:45 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC73CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:56 <peter1138> hmm 18:28:27 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 18:28:27 <Wolf01> !logs 18:28:34 <CIA-1> miham * r8148 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:28:34 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-15 19:25:31 18:28:34 <CIA-1> brazilian_portuguese - 4 fixed by fukumori (4) 18:28:34 <CIA-1> bulgarian - 1 fixed, 48 changed by groupsky (49) 18:28:34 <CIA-1> croatian - 163 fixed, 60 changed by Ydobon (223) 18:28:36 <CIA-1> danish - 23 changed by MiR (23) 18:28:36 <CIA-1> esperanto - 2 changed by LaPingvino (2) 18:29:26 <MiHaMiX> italian - 4 fixed by sidew (4) 18:29:26 <MiHaMiX> japanese - 5 fixed by ickoonite (5) 18:29:26 <MiHaMiX> norwegian_bokmal - 4 fixed by brygge_2 (4) 18:29:26 <MiHaMiX> norwegian_nynorsk - 830 changed by khaavik (822), Eikje3 (8) 18:29:30 <MiHaMiX> portuguese - 4 fixed by izhirahider (4) 18:29:31 <MiHaMiX> slovenian - 4 fixed, 64 changed by Necrolyte (68) 18:30:26 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 18:31:55 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:33:26 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176122247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:38:50 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 18:48:09 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:24 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ 18:52:39 <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Trying to execute a packet in the past! 18:52:39 <Brianetta> openttd: network.c:1197: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed. 18:52:41 <Brianetta> arse 18:53:04 <Sacro> openttd || echo "arse" ? 18:54:41 <Darkvater> back 18:54:55 <Brianetta> Something to do with the scenario 18:55:15 <Brianetta> I get this assert every time 18:56:02 <Brianetta> but not from cli 18:58:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:00:47 <Sacro> real 0m33.157s 19:00:47 <Sacro> user 0m58.100s 19:00:47 <Sacro> sys 0m3.776s 19:00:49 <Sacro> not bad 19:02:39 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:43 <Sacro> hmm... i have an autosave that segfaults 19:04:07 <Brianetta> This new output is really confusing autopilot, and I'm not sure why 19:04:29 <Sacro> your server be broked :( 19:04:39 <Brianetta> only when I load a scenario or save 19:05:03 <Brianetta> or. if Ilaod a scenario without using autopilot 19:05:12 <Brianetta> Neither are options I'm going to entertain 19:05:57 <Sacro> hmmm 19:12:18 <Celestar> Darkvater: back 2 19:12:47 <Brianetta> Rubidium's cache checking diff breaks autopilot. Let's see if I can see why it does. 19:13:38 <Darkvater> then we're both back \o/ 19:15:23 <Rubidium> Brianetta: that means it must be giving some output 19:15:29 <Brianetta> It is. Lots. 19:15:38 <Brianetta> And it's causing an assert 19:15:42 <Brianetta> in openttd 19:15:49 <Brianetta> hang on 19:15:54 <Brianetta> I have to keep Helen company 19:15:54 <Darkvater> it's *magic* it even stays in sync, eh? 19:15:57 <Brianetta> in th kitchen 19:17:14 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 19:21:46 * Brianetta returns 19:26:56 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:22 * Brianetta pokes Rubidium 19:28:33 <Brianetta> It outputs a bunch of CRLFs now that it never used to 19:28:43 <Brianetta> expect: does "\r\nCurrent/maximum spectators: 0/10\r\n" (spawn_id exp5) match r 19:28:46 <Brianetta> egular expression "Current/maximum clients: *[ 0-9]*/[ 0-9]{2}"? no 19:28:54 <Brianetta> that last "no" should be a "yes" 19:29:03 <Brianetta> but the server_info output has changed somehow 19:29:44 <Darkvater> ? 19:30:02 <Brianetta> Darkvater: That's what I thought 19:30:04 <Darkvater> last time I looked Rubidium's diff only added a few printf() debugging prints 19:30:12 <blathijs> Brianetta: I think clients will not match spectators ? 19:30:23 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 19:31:11 <Brianetta> blathijs: Yeah, you're right 19:31:31 <Brianetta> So why the heck does "a few printf() debugging prints 19:31:35 <Brianetta> " cause ana ssert? 19:31:54 <Darkvater> where's that diff again? 19:31:58 <Rubidium> running two servers in the same directory? 19:32:03 <Brianetta> Rubidium: no 19:32:17 <Rubidium> Darkvater: http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/check_caches.diff 19:32:18 <Brianetta> It works if I start a new game 19:32:26 <Brianetta> It fails if I laod a game or scenario 19:32:32 <Brianetta> and it works in all cases without autopilot 19:33:01 <Rubidium> hmm, changing the frame_counter in afterloadgame might cause trouble with the server 19:33:05 <Brianetta> but since I'm going to run a scenario in autopilot, either I figure out what's wrong or I revert the patch 19:33:13 <Brianetta> I'm attempting the former 19:33:15 <Rubidium> oops :) 19:33:42 <Darkvater> hmm 19:33:46 <Darkvater> + TrainConsistChanged(v); 19:33:46 <Darkvater> ? 19:33:47 <Rubidium> in a networking server it should not touch _frame_counter :) 19:33:56 <Brianetta> Rubidium: It does say: 19:33:57 <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Trying to execute a packet in the past! 19:33:57 <Brianetta> openttd: network.c:1197: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed. 19:34:01 <Rubidium> that totally messes with everything of the networkserver 19:35:21 <Rubidium> ok, Brianetta can you redownload and reapply the patch? 19:35:43 *** Sacro_ [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 19:36:04 <peter1138> Rubidium: why is it ok for cached_* to be 0? 19:36:14 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 19:36:57 <Brianetta> compiling 19:37:00 <Rubidium> hmm, good question 19:38:32 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:54 <Brianetta> Server is up 19:38:58 <Brianetta> No assrtion failure 19:39:03 <Brianetta> no crying 19:39:23 <Brianetta> Why oh why is there always a company after loading a scenario in a dedicated server? 19:39:43 * Brianetta resets it 19:39:59 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 19:40:03 <Brianetta> OK, there's the ground 19:40:06 <Brianetta> Definitely a new game 19:40:19 <Darkvater> :) 19:40:45 <Rubidium> how do we monitor whether the patch openttd is printing stuff to the console? 19:40:58 <Rubidium> when it's running with the autopilot? 19:41:10 <Brianetta> Rubidium: It's spewed to the console, same as ever 19:41:22 <Darkvater> you should've used DEBUG() :) with developer=2 and script debug.txt 19:41:33 <Brianetta> It can hide the console, but doesn't on my setup 19:41:46 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Who was that addressed to? 19:42:04 <Brianetta> It's running -d 19:42:17 <Darkvater> in general 19:42:22 <Darkvater> but with -D it doesn't matter 19:42:27 <Brianetta> ah 19:42:33 <Darkvater> since it's the same output 19:42:48 <Brianetta> Devil has joined the game 19:42:55 <Brianetta> Map sucessfully saved to /home/autopilot/openttd-svn/save/join_45abd933.sav 19:43:04 <Brianetta> All console output is appearing as normal 19:43:29 *** Green-devil [~spam@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [] 19:43:50 *** Sacro_ [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:16 <Darkvater> but when using DEBUG() you can redirect it to the ingame console and from there to a logfile without any piping 19:44:21 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:44:25 <Darkvater> so it might still be useful 19:44:59 <Darkvater> and your output only gets messages from DEBUG() 19:45:15 <peter1138> tum te tum 19:45:28 <Brianetta> btw, I am *particularly* proud of tonight's scenario 19:45:28 <Brianetta> available in-game or on the web site 19:45:30 <peter1138> hidden features nobody except Darkvater knows about ;p 19:45:45 <Darkvater> eh, I'm even wrong 19:46:00 <izhirahider> svn/openttd/src/network/network_gui.cpp: In function 'void NetworkLobbyWindowWndProc(Window*, WindowEvent*)': 19:46:01 <Darkvater> cause the console puts all shit it gets from the console into a logfile ;p 19:46:07 <izhirahider> svn/openttd/src/network/network_gui.cpp:878: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault 19:46:20 <izhirahider> wow, never got one of these before 19:47:12 <peter1138> nice :) 19:47:23 <peter1138> i did 19:47:27 <peter1138> but it was a cyrix 6x86 19:47:37 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 19:47:38 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 19:47:47 <Darkvater> lol 19:48:00 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 19:51:00 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 19:51:00 <Belugas> !logs 19:51:30 <Darkvater> Rubidium: why did you change frame counter in the diff? 19:51:55 * Maedhros ponders DaleStan's callback size patch 19:51:56 <Darkvater> (just curious) 19:52:04 <Darkvater> :O 19:52:07 <Darkvater> another ponderer 19:52:25 <Maedhros> well, sometimes it just has to be done :) 19:53:13 <Rubidium> so I could see the amount of time the game had progressed in single player (from the load of the savegame) 19:53:18 *** Xera [~jamie@88-111-155-215.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:53:44 <Xera> could someone tell me where openttd.cfg is located in linux? 19:53:49 <Darkvater> Rubidium: ah ok :) 19:54:01 <Darkvater> find . -name "openttd.cfg" 2> /dev/null 19:54:16 <Xera> no result 19:54:17 <Xera> lol 19:54:20 <Darkvater> it only appears after the first run of the openttd executable though 19:54:29 <Xera> well it's been run more than once :P 19:54:33 <Darkvater> or more correctly: after the first successfull shutdown 19:54:45 <izhirahider> peter1138, it was gone after a 'make clean' and re-make 19:55:07 <izhirahider> I find myself doing a lot of it lately with this new build system 19:55:07 <Xera> Darkvater: ah, thanks 19:55:33 <Darkvater> I'll be back in a few hours. Instead of the real snow Belugas has, I have to satisfy myself with some fake ice 19:55:48 <Xera> also, is it possible to add new grf files into ~/.openttd/data ? 19:55:56 <Darkvater> yes 19:55:59 <Darkvater> add them there 19:56:05 <Xera> ok 19:56:10 <Belugas> [14:53] <@Darkvater> another ponderer <--- what would you expect from Britts? they are using Pounds! 19:56:14 * Belugas hides 19:56:19 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:56:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Wolf01|AWAY))] 19:56:27 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 19:56:28 <Xera> lol 19:56:42 <Xera> it's Brits btw :P 19:58:31 <Belugas> ho... sorry... Brits then :) 19:58:40 <picitlama> wow. the new bank building quite impressive. 19:58:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:58:54 <izhirahider> I have a savegame that by waiting a few days, money goes from +1million to -12 million ... 19:59:08 <izhirahider> anyone noticed a buffer overflow problem lately? 20:00:43 <Xera> one last question, when i add new grf's to openttd.cfg, and they're in a sub dir of "data", do i put "data/mydir/something.grf" or just "mydir/something.grf" 20:01:10 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: where? 20:01:22 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@i157163.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:01:31 <Maedhros> Xera: there's an in-game gui you can use for adding grfs now 20:01:37 <Xera> oh :O 20:02:30 <Xera> i see, but it's not picking up any files 20:03:02 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:44 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 20:04:07 <picitlama> MiHaMiX: Püspökkürt 20:04:33 <picitlama> MiHaMiX: and i have a city called "szentföld" and i think this is very funny :) 20:04:53 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: hehhe :DD 20:06:00 <picitlama> MiHaMiX: i think the station called "Szentföldi hegy" soon became "Golgota" 20:06:10 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: :DDD 20:07:21 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157117.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:21 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 20:07:43 <picitlama> MiHaMiX: when can i build hub airports? 20:08:22 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: ask someone else, since I rarely play with the game :) 20:08:39 <Xera> Maedhros: it won't pick up the files 20:09:33 <Maedhros> are the permissions right? (on the mydir directory, as well as the files) 20:10:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Wolf01|AWAY))] 20:10:02 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:10:29 <Maedhros> is there another data/ file that opentd might be looking in? (e.g. /usr/share/games/openttd/data, for Gentoo) 20:10:30 <Xera> well, i changed it so everybody/thing can right/read 20:10:50 <Xera> yes, /usr/share/games/openttd/data is there 20:12:14 <Xera> should i make a link? 20:14:09 <Maedhros> try it and see what happens ;) 20:14:25 <CIA-1> celestar * r8149 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (190 files in 15 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with -r8038:8038 from trunk (the cpp merge) 20:14:32 <picitlama> i am using lots of ships, for a few ports with big traffic 20:14:44 <hylje> Celestar: 8038:8038? 20:14:47 <picitlama> when 5-6 ships starts from a port, the sound is very good :) 20:15:10 <Xera> Maedhros: it works :P 20:15:32 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 20:15:38 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 20:15:38 <Digitalfox> !logs 20:16:14 <Maedhros> Xera: good :) 20:16:52 <Xera> now how do i use it ingame? (lepkka's new water) 20:17:02 <Xera> i'm such a noob, i know :P 20:21:22 <nairan> Celesttar nice pdf and yes the balancing and changes makes player vs player harder and more competitiv and ppls dont get passive 20:22:05 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 20:22:13 <izhirahider> Ok, doing my part of bug reporting: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/555 20:22:15 *** ufoun [~ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 20:22:24 *** ufoun [~ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [] 20:23:40 <Brianetta> Celestar: There's a town onmy server named after you 20:24:41 <Celestar> Brianetta: ? 20:25:07 <Brianetta> Celestar: There's a town on my server named after you 20:25:19 <Celestar> who did that? :P 20:26:02 <Brianetta> There's one for Sacro and Rich, too 20:26:14 <Sacro> me what? 20:26:20 <Sacro> :o a tribute 20:31:07 *** TSC [~user@c220-237-36-237.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:32:44 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:18 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 20:35:43 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:37:03 * robobed is away: 20:37:12 *** robobed is now known as roboboy 20:43:22 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 20:43:59 <Wolf01|AWAY> what hotkeys are better for the transparency? ctrl+number, shift+number, alt+numbers, ctrl+Fn??? 20:44:02 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 20:44:57 <Wolf01> or just numbers? 20:45:04 <Maedhros> hmm, something's really not working right when trying to join a multiplayer game hosted on my computer 20:45:39 <Belugas> Wolf01, something that all OSs can handle 20:45:42 <Naksu> Ding! you get skeleton key! 20:45:55 <Belugas> Maedhros, what? 20:46:11 <CIA-1> glx * r8150 /branches/newhouses/src/ (98 files in 6 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r8127:8148 20:46:51 <Maedhros> glx++ 20:47:11 <Maedhros> as for the network game, i start a new multiplayer game, which is fine 20:47:36 <Maedhros> if i search for servers on the internet, they don't go away when i search for servers on the LAN 20:48:26 <hylje> yeah 20:48:32 <hylje> we need a clear button for servers 20:48:46 <Maedhros> i can't actually join that game from any other clients though 20:48:49 <hylje> and also a "save server" button to automagically add said server to list 20:48:58 <hylje> (local list) 20:49:21 <Maedhros> if i add 127.0.0.1 it says the server is offline 20:50:24 <Maedhros> if i click find server, i get 3 new servers appearing - 127.0.0.1 being one of them, with one player, and the other 2 having no name and no players 20:51:13 <Maedhros> attempting to join the server at 127.0.0.1 makes the game lobby blank, with no option to join or do anything other than refresh the server 20:52:20 <Maedhros> i've got "dbg: [net] Cannot resolve ''" in the console which happens when selecting a blank server and pressing "refresh" 20:53:47 <peter1138> o_O 20:54:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E3D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:36 <hylje> yeh 20:54:40 <hylje> had that sometimes too 20:54:47 <hylje> network has some minor bugs 20:56:37 *** Xera is now known as xera 20:58:42 <Wolf01> case '1': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 0); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //station signs 20:58:42 <Wolf01> case '2': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 1); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //trees 20:58:42 <Wolf01> case '3': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 2); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //houses 20:58:42 <Wolf01> there's a way to make it better? 20:59:14 <hylje> i'd do some dynamically created code 20:59:23 <hylje> its fairly redundant 21:00:16 <glx> TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, x - '1'); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; 21:00:20 <Wolf01> but i don't know how to transform a number in string 21:00:32 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 21:00:40 <Belugas> '1' = char(49) 21:01:12 <Belugas> bit to set/unset = 49-byte(char) 21:01:34 <Wolf01> (in gamemaker is more easy :D -> '1'=string(1) 21:01:59 <hylje> python and some other languages support muting '1' strs to int 21:02:00 <glx> '1' is not a string, it's a char 21:02:06 <glx> "1" is a string 21:02:49 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:04:11 *** kampasky_ [pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:05:44 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@i157163.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 21:05:57 <Wolf01> case '1' | '2' |... is correct? 21:06:12 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@i157163.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:12 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 21:06:12 *** kampasky [pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 21:06:40 <glx> in C no, but I dunno for C++ 21:06:46 <Belugas> no, i don't think so 21:06:51 <blathijs> it should be? 21:07:00 <blathijs> char is an integral type, so should be case-able 21:07:02 <blathijs> I think 21:07:18 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-227-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 21:07:36 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-140-81.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:07:43 <glx> blathijs: but what about the "|" syntax ? 21:07:54 <blathijs> oh 21:07:54 <blathijs> heh 21:07:54 <Maedhros> that won't work, surely... 21:07:55 <blathijs> duh 21:08:02 <blathijs> no, not supported 21:08:17 <blathijs> Wolf01: case '1': case '2': case '3': etc will work, though 21:08:21 <blathijs> due to fall through 21:09:03 <glx> would be nice to have VB style "case '1' to '5'" 21:10:55 <Wolf01> mmm i'm at the same point 21:11:22 <Belugas> or delphi case 1..5, case 1,2,5,8,9 without the switch even! 21:12:47 <Wolf01> i think i confused a little C with bash 21:13:19 <peter1138> Wolf01: are you using SpriteID img instead of int32 img yet? 21:13:53 <Wolf01> mmm i'm using the palette switching 21:14:14 <Wolf01> so SpriteID pal 21:16:06 <Wolf01> for (uint i=0; i<7; i++) { 21:16:06 <Wolf01> case char(i+49): TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, i); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; 21:16:06 <Wolf01> } 21:16:06 <Wolf01> this could be a good solution... if it was possible to use a variable on cases 21:16:47 <Wolf01> but cases are static 21:18:50 <hylje> dont use a case? 21:18:51 <Rubidium> what are you trying? if (c >= '1' && c <= '7') { TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, c - '1'); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); } 21:19:51 <Wolf01> i think it become really understandable as hotkey 21:20:59 <Wolf01> peter1138, do you want the patch to see what you can break? maybe so you can merge it too 21:21:29 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy] 21:21:46 <peter1138> Wolf01: patches are applied, branches are merged 21:22:53 <Wolf01> you understood it anyway :) 21:24:38 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:52 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 21:29:38 *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176101236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 21:35:20 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176122247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:21 <Wolf01> i just noticed that number keys are used for construction toolbars 21:37:46 <Wolf01> ok, the hotkeys are done 21:37:52 <Wolf01> (with ctrl) 21:38:38 <Wolf01> i finished working on it, now i only need to keep it synced 21:43:33 * peter1138 wonders what other massive changes he can make... 21:44:40 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:45:40 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 21:51:32 <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/transparency_options_gui.diff enjoy 21:54:59 <Tron> why does variables.h depend on gfx.h? 21:56:05 <KUDr> some linkage mismatch 21:56:50 <Tron> that's what the log says 21:57:01 <Tron> which is about as informative as "bla" 21:57:37 <KUDr> it was on FS 21:57:40 <KUDr> as bug 21:57:41 <Tron> introducing random dependencies is just plain wrong 21:58:59 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 21:59:00 <Tron> aha 21:59:05 <KUDr> variables needed by cocoa are enclosed inside extern "C" in gfx.h 21:59:11 <Tron> so instead of doing the Right Thing(tm) 21:59:14 <KUDr> and defined in variables.h 21:59:20 <Tron> i.e. killing one of the declarations 21:59:28 <Tron> now there is a random dependency 21:59:29 <KUDr> killing? 21:59:29 <Tron> great 21:59:40 <KUDr> how? 21:59:47 <Tron> KUDr: kill, remove, delete, exterminate 21:59:58 <KUDr> but which one? 22:00:10 <Tron> preferebly the one in variables.h 22:00:18 <Tron> mostly because this file should be non-existent 22:00:27 <Tron> s/ebl/abl/ 22:00:33 <peter1138> if only :) 22:00:36 <KUDr> then we need to instantiate them somewhere else (gfx.c?) 22:01:27 <Tron> and? 22:01:35 <Tron> is there any problem? 22:01:44 <KUDr> i dunno if it is agreed concept 22:01:56 <KUDr> i would vote for it 22:02:14 <Tron> having totally random dependencies is definatly not an agreed concept 22:03:37 <peter1138> erk 22:03:38 <Tron> bah, this stuff should not be in gfx.cpp 22:03:54 <KUDr> which stuff? 22:04:03 <Tron> gfx.cpp has nothing to do with resolutions and fullscreen or windowed display 22:04:53 <peter1138> sdl (well, X) lets me pick 800x512... and it comes up purple and blue and not happy looking 22:05:00 <KUDr> then they should not be in gfx.h 22:05:27 <KUDr> so if not gfx.h, not hal.h, then we have new problem with cocoa 22:06:09 <KUDr> logically they don't belong there, but technically we have in first part of gfx.h all stuff needed by cocoa 22:06:18 <Tron> exactly this kind of crap makes stuff hard to maintain 22:06:34 <KUDr> so i would wait with cleanup until cocoa id in obj-C++ 22:06:51 <peter1138> you could be waiting a while 22:06:52 <Tron> just changing random stuff till the problem seems to be gone away instead of thinking about a proper solution for a minute 22:06:52 <KUDr> which should happen soon 22:07:12 <Tron> "soon" 22:07:14 <Tron> sure 22:07:21 <KUDr> this weekend 22:07:26 <KUDr> if we succeed 22:07:38 <KUDr> Bjarni already ordered my time 22:07:54 <KUDr> so we can do it together 22:08:03 <Tron> is there any problem with doing it right now? 22:08:21 <KUDr> now cocoa doesn't want to compile (C++ types stuff) 22:08:31 <KUDr> Bjarni is the problem 22:08:41 <peter1138> he 22:08:44 <KUDr> he has no time just now 22:08:57 <KUDr> and i can't do it without him 22:09:08 <peter1138> hmm 22:09:12 <peter1138> the compile farm can compile it 22:09:14 <peter1138> so... 22:09:16 <KUDr> if you want, take some mac around you and do it 22:09:20 <peter1138> or anyone with OS X 22:09:42 <KUDr> then i need access to anyone's computer 22:09:57 <KUDr> and anyone's help with mac 22:09:59 <peter1138> urgh, iMacs are horrible these days 22:10:37 <Tron> <KUDr> now cocoa doesn't want to compile (C++ types stuff) <--- and the problem with this is? 22:10:44 <Tron> extern "C" 22:10:44 <Tron> done 22:11:13 <KUDr> compile whole code as extern "C" would not help 22:11:21 <KUDr> did you ever try it? 22:11:28 <Tron> overkill? 22:11:31 <KUDr> it is still C++ compiler 22:11:47 <KUDr> still same strict about type conversions 22:12:00 <Tron> hello? 22:12:05 <KUDr> here 22:12:05 <Tron> the problem is name mangling 22:12:32 <KUDr> not if you compile it as obj-C++ 22:12:54 <KUDr> there problems in .m files 22:13:02 <Tron> *sigh* 22:13:16 <Tron> you are making it way way way more complicated than it is 22:13:23 <KUDr> the same we had in our old .c files 22:13:33 <KUDr> me? 22:13:55 <KUDr> Bjarni told me that there are many errors in .m when compiling as obj-C++ 22:14:10 <KUDr> so tell me how i am making it more compicated :) 22:14:28 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:34 <Tron> the problem is a freaking variable which has two declarations 22:14:37 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:14:43 <Tron> one is extern "C", the other not 22:14:49 <Tron> nothing more 22:15:02 <KUDr> if the first one is extern"C", then there no problem 22:15:17 <KUDr> opposite order is a problem 22:15:19 <Tron> if there were just one declaration, there would be even less problems 22:15:28 <Tron> s/were/was/ 22:15:46 <KUDr> but this wouldn't solve .m compilation 22:15:46 <Tron> again: adding some plain random dependency is VERY bad 22:16:09 <Tron> and how does including gfx.h in variables.h magically solve .m compilation? 22:16:13 <KUDr> again: without Bjarni i can't do it properly 22:16:31 <KUDr> .m now compiles as obj-C 22:16:37 <KUDr> not ++ 22:16:40 <Tron> they always did 22:16:51 <Tron> maybe the reason is they ARE objective C files 22:17:02 <KUDr> maybe 22:17:14 <Tron> still i fail to see what are you trying to tell me 22:17:30 <KUDr> so all variables it uses need to be extern "C" for the rest of project 22:17:43 <KUDr> nothing 22:18:02 <KUDr> i already explained how "magically" it solved the problem 22:18:11 <KUDr> but don't want to understand 22:18:24 <Tron> you /totally/ miss the point 22:18:31 <KUDr> what point? 22:18:40 <CIA-1> maedhros * r8151 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Automatically build semaphores before a configurable date, which can be set by each network player seperately. 22:18:57 <Tron> the dependency of variables.h on gfx.h is just plain wrong 22:19:04 <Tron> and also unnecessary 22:19:08 <KUDr> i agreed with you already 22:19:19 <Tron> having two declarations for one variable is equally wrong 22:19:21 <KUDr> so what more should i do? 22:19:26 <KUDr> kill myself? 22:19:35 <Tron> no, kill one declaration 22:19:43 <KUDr> which one? 22:19:48 <KUDr> variables.h? 22:19:51 <peter1138> the wrong one 22:19:51 <peter1138> heh 22:19:54 <Tron> well, if you really have to, you could kill yourself 22:20:03 <Tron> though it would not solve this particular problem 22:20:43 <KUDr> so which one? 22:20:49 <Tron> the current "solution" is just random unmaintainable garbage 22:20:54 <KUDr> no 22:21:02 <KUDr> gfx is more low level 22:21:06 <KUDr> it is not random 22:21:14 <KUDr> it is 'controlled chaos' 22:21:25 <Tron> nonsense 22:21:28 <KUDr> :) 22:21:44 <Tron> two wrongs doesn't make a right 22:21:57 <Tron> having two declarations is wrong 22:22:12 <Tron> adding an unnecessary dependency just makes it worse 22:22:39 <KUDr> ok, so again: which one? 22:23:20 <peter1138> well there's no variables.cpp is there? 22:23:24 <Tron> let's first find out who added the second 22:23:29 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:50 <Tron> hm, interesting 22:24:01 <KUDr> why you need to know "who" when talking about solution? 22:26:55 <peter1138> hmm, i wonder if it's possible to get the AI to understand build-on-slopes 22:27:37 *** Rens2Oblivion [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 22:30:16 <peter1138> sleepy time 22:30:17 <peter1138> nini 22:30:40 <KUDr> gn 22:33:28 <MUcht> question: will there ever be a chance to get this in: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/53 ? 22:33:48 <MUcht> not exactly this patch, but an increase max_players 22:34:13 <MUcht> wait: I requested it already :P http://bugs.openttd.org/task/294 22:34:14 <MUcht> ;-) 22:34:37 <MUcht> we dont't need more companies but more clients ;-) 22:38:59 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:06 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-201-206.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:40:24 <Maedhros> ThePizzaKing: i've finally closed your bug about building semaphore signals before a certain year :) 22:40:24 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:45 <peter1138> lol 22:40:53 <peter1138> just read an email from my isp 22:41:09 <peter1138> BT say they found "no fault" with the line when it was tested 22:41:13 <peter1138> yet it magically worked... 22:41:42 <peter1138> um, yes, nini 22:42:19 <Maedhros> hehe 22:42:22 <Maedhros> good night from me, too 22:46:08 <Wolf01> the nice thing is that i and ThePizzaKing coded the same patch, at the same time and with the same bug 22:47:33 *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176101236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 22:48:12 <Wolf01> or at least, mine was older, but was for miniIN where it wasn't affect from the bug because of the signal gui, i introduced the bug with the porting to the trunk 22:50:42 *** xera [~jamie@88-111-155-215.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:48 *** xera [~jamie@88-111-155-215.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:30 <Wolf01> peter1138, are you planning to break again my patch with another good feature? you are so quiet tonight 22:59:40 *** PandaMojo_ [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:48 <ThePizzaKing> Maedhros: Cool 23:03:13 <ThePizzaKing> Too bad the option won't be in 0.5 though 23:04:19 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:34 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:46 *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo 23:05:37 <Wolf01> is somebody thinking about coding a proper catchement area function? 23:10:24 <Rubidium> Wolf01: yes, Celestar to be exact 23:10:54 <Wolf01> good, i have an half-done "show catchement area" to sync with trunk 23:12:58 <Rubidium> I'm not certain Celestar is going to write a "show catchment area" function. 23:13:25 <Rubidium> he just has some ideas to modify the catchment radii 23:13:25 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:50 <Wolf01> what i need is that a L shaped station have a L shaped catchement area, not a width*height one 23:15:44 <Wolf01> and after that should be easy use the thd to show the area 23:15:49 <Rubidium> you really need to talk with Celestar, as he is still in the 'writing down and evaluating ideas' phase 23:16:02 <Darkvater> great 23:16:13 <Darkvater> why does bjarni write 140 character long comments/ 23:16:22 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8147 23:16:24 <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r8147 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2007-01-15 17:32:42 UTC) 23:16:26 <_42_> -Fix: [autoreplace] v->leave_depot_instantly was not always reset correctly 23:16:28 <_42_> While it's not certain if this would have any serious sideeffects (or any at all), it's reset when intended now 23:16:50 <Darkvater> this is totally braindead 23:17:44 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 23:19:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E3D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:48 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x5735f016.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [] 23:24:02 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:25 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 23:30:03 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 23:32:06 <Darkvater> goodnight 23:34:46 *** PandaMojo_ [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:36:55 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:38:34 <Wolf01> 'night 23:38:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 23:39:34 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:39:43 *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo 23:49:56 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-42-109.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]