Log for #openttd on 14th March 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours

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00:40:14  * fjb hates it when serviced ECS industries are closing down only because the related town didn't get a statue yet.
00:40:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of stupid system is that anyway?!?
00:41:47  <fjb> The statue keeps your rating high enough to keep the industry working.
00:42:53  <fjb> With a station rating below 75% the industry has a good chance to lower it's production every month.
00:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes... as i said before... with difficulty set to stable industry, industries that are serviced should never _ever_ close down... it's a total misdesign of the grf...
00:49:29  <fjb> Difficulty is changing economy. But even then it shouldn't close down when it always has trains or trucks waiting. And the trains and trucks in the early game are not fast enough to keep the rating at 75%. That is only the case the first year after buying the vehicle. Then the rating goes down to 69% if you always have a vehicle waiting at the sation.
00:52:44  <fjb> And when you are using a vehicle set like UKRS where the running costs are almost as high as the building costs you can only use the cheapest and slowest vehicles till you start to earn really big money. But that becomes a problem when all industries start to decrease their production.
00:53:29  <fjb> 30 tons are not much production for a mine.
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01:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly... 75% is a pretty sharp threshold
01:20:32  <SmatZ> what happens if it is not serviced at all?
01:20:37  <SmatZ> it closes soon?
01:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik the industries have a "protection period" of 5 years until they start closing down
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01:49:10  <mattt_> Does cargo transfer between two different stations that are near each other?
01:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
01:50:22  <mattt_> ok
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02:01:39  <mattt_> What happens to cargo if I have a train that transfers and picks up the same cargo at the same station?
02:01:59  <mattt_> will it pick up the 'same' cargo?  or will it matter?
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02:09:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it will pick up the cargo it just dropped
02:10:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> transfer only makes sense with "and leave empty"
02:14:18  <mattt_> i wanted to relay cargo to maximize distance between delivery points..
02:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but it only works one way
02:23:37  <mattt_> yeah.. I just thought of setting up a big series of relays
02:23:49  <mattt_> I can do it with separate stations
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08:53:07  <Celestar> heyo
08:53:32  <Forked> mornin
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08:58:38  <peter1138> Hi
09:06:58  <Celestar> gah some people suck
09:07:07  <Gekz> some dont
09:07:14  <Gonozal_VIII> and others do
09:07:17  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
09:07:18  <Celestar> some people "accidently" remove central installations for critical programs and then go on holiday :S
09:07:32  <Celestar> leaving me with the task of repairing the broken installation
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09:09:56  <Celestar> lusers :S
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09:37:52  <Draakon> hello everyone
09:38:00  <peter1138> Morning...
09:39:36  *** hal [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd
09:40:41  <Draakon> its afternoon here
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10:13:37  <shodan> haha
10:13:44  <shodan> a1270: your exit message is... funny
10:13:48  <shodan> what's it in relation to?
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11:01:38  <a1270> shodan, is part of a review of a japanese movie. I don't remember which one though.
11:03:38  <Gonozal_VIII> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0227036/usercomments
11:05:53  <a1270> yes, thanks for finding that Gonozal_VIII.
11:06:35  <Gonozal_VIII> that was easy... the only other hit on google was a chatlog of this chan
11:06:55  <a1270> Probably one i idle in.
11:07:15  * a1270 tried googling a few weeks back and got zero hits
11:07:18  <Gonozal_VIII> this as in this ;-)
11:07:39  <a1270> ah
11:07:43  * a1270 is still tired
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12:47:16  <SmatZ> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=672610#p672610 anyone else noticed this? :)
12:47:47  <peter1138> I noticed the thread...
12:48:53  <SmatZ> mmm... "experienced" is a better word here?
12:48:58  <SmatZ> I guess it is a joke
12:49:09  <SmatZ> but it looks interesting
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12:51:17  <klauskaan> hi all
12:51:29  <SmatZ> hi klauskaan
12:52:02  <klauskaan> how come my usual nick is now protected?
12:52:14  <klauskaan> its been a while ;)
12:52:39  <ln> SmatZ: certain display drivers support changing screen orientation, even on-the-fly.
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12:53:06  <ln> well, not screen but graphics card drivers.
12:57:39  <Gonozal_VIII> those upside down screenshots are rofl
12:59:39  <Gonozal_VIII> if it's a fake, it was a lot of work
13:00:17  <SmatZ> I am not sure if you do a screenshot when you have rotated screen
13:00:26  <SmatZ> if it will be rotated or not
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13:00:33  <SmatZ> I think it won't
13:00:56  <LordAzamath> hello
13:01:07  <SmatZ> because when you open that screenshot in an editor with rotated screen
13:01:12  <SmatZ> it would be rotated twice
13:01:14  <SmatZ> I guess
13:01:30  *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd
13:01:31  <Gonozal_VIII> strange, that trees, buildings, cursor, everything is rotated but the terrain and road sprites seem to be ok
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13:02:24  * LordAzamath got his report card today
13:02:57  <Gonozal_VIII> is that something important?
13:03:23  * frosch123 puts "australian view"-patch on this todo-list
13:03:31  <Gonozal_VIII> heeh
13:03:41  <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII, my marks for this term are there :P
13:04:38  <Gonozal_VIII> so that's a no?
13:05:07  <LordAzamath> .. maybe
13:05:36  <LordAzamath> but the important thing aong with it is that I now officially have holidays
13:05:43  <peter1138> School is bullshit.
13:05:58  <peter1138> LordAzamath, so lots of time to play OpenTTD?
13:06:21  <LordAzamath> peter1138, who knows?
13:06:40  <LordAzamath> maybe I have some other MORE important things to do :P
13:06:55  <peter1138> Like what? Graphics for (Open)TTD(Patch)?
13:07:02  * LordAzamath wonders what is more important than 24/7 nolife OpenTTD :P
13:07:09  <LordAzamath> peter1138, perhaps
13:07:10  <peter1138> EXACTLY
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13:14:53  <peter1138> # imagine me saying the following
13:24:22  * Gonozal_VIII imagines peter1138 saying "the following"
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13:33:41  <Celestar> :)
13:34:28  <SmatZ> Celestar: welcome :)
13:34:43  <Celestar> heya SmatZ
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13:34:54  <Celestar> peter1138: you got RichK's email addy?
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13:39:22  <Belugas> # remember when you were young
13:39:29  <Belugas> #you shone like the sun
13:39:44  <Belugas> #SHINE ONE You crazy Diamond
13:39:54  <HMage> ЌяЌя, всеЌ прОвет
13:39:58  <Celestar> Belugas: ?
13:40:03  <Belugas> #Now there's a look in your eyes
13:40:11  <Belugas> #like black holes in the sky
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13:40:41  * Belugas sings Pink Floyd, Shine on you crazy Diamond ;)
13:41:00  <Belugas> ans listens to it too...
13:41:17  <NukeBuster> Are you able to play that song aswell?
13:41:29  <Belugas> of course...
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13:42:11  <NukeBuster> Nice :)
13:43:26  <peter1138> Celestar, no
13:43:34  <Belugas> when Wish You Were Here got out to the stores, i bought it the same day, and spent the following week practicing the solos
13:43:53  <Belugas> i mean... nothing else than playing it
13:44:08  <Belugas> like... not a foot outside, just eating sleeping and playing
13:44:20  <Belugas> man... that album blew me away for good
13:46:16  <Belugas> psychedelic era
13:46:20  <Belugas> good old times...
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13:46:53  <SmatZ> [14:44:09] <Belugas> like... not a foot outside, just eating sleeping and playing <--- yeah, like coding OTTD :)
13:48:39  <Belugas> maybe for you :)  but now, i've got a kid who likes grabbing all my attention when he's awake :D
13:48:53  <Celestar> http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/images/f23.gif
13:49:24  * Belugas did a brief computation and found out he was 11ish at that time... staggering how time flies
13:49:36  <Celestar> Belugas: at what time?
13:49:42  <Celestar> when Voyager 1/2 were launched?
13:49:54  <Belugas> in 75?
13:50:00  <Celestar> 79
13:50:09  <Celestar> er 77
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13:50:13  <Belugas> your pic reminds me of The Finger Of God
13:50:33  <Celestar> August and September 1977. I wasn't even born then
13:50:39  <Belugas> i was
13:50:45  <Celestar> and both probes are still actively doing science
13:50:53  <Belugas> i don't remember any particuliar brouhaha for the event...
13:51:11  <Belugas> i do remember clearly the first time the shuttle was launched
13:51:22  <Celestar> well. It was manned. So Brouhaha :)
13:51:41  <Celestar> Voyagers were planned to last 12 years.
13:51:45  <Belugas> i do remember seeing it flying around Montreal, on top of a 747 too...
13:51:56  <Celestar> now they're over 30 years old
13:52:04  <frosch123> hmm, I guess my generation clearly remembers tschernobyl on tv...
13:52:07  <Celestar> expected to operate for another 12.
13:52:36  <Celestar> That'd be 42 years of continuous operation.
13:52:43  <Celestar> Nice power plant they have ;)
13:52:48  * Belugas agrees with frosch123
13:53:01  <frosch123> was 4 at that time :)
13:53:17  * SmatZ was 1 :)
13:53:19  <Celestar> 420 Watts nominal (down to 300 something how I think)
13:53:48  <Belugas> was a tiny little bit older...
13:54:07  <Belugas> # remember when you were young
13:54:08  <Belugas> ...
13:54:11  <Belugas> so true...
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13:54:31  <frosch123> I was no longer allowed to eat blueberries from the forrest :(
13:55:10  <Celestar> Voyager 2 is the only probe to have visted Uranus and Neptune. No missions to those planets till then. Shame.
13:55:33  <Belugas> no kidding frosch123 ????
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13:56:45  * Celestar wishes the politians would finally increase space spending :S
13:56:56  *** Zr40 [~zr40@82-168-238-114.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
13:57:16  <Celestar> like about 10% of what the Iraq war cost could go to NASA :)
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13:57:31  <Celestar> another 10% in fusion research
13:57:33  <ln> frosch123: forest
13:57:34  <frosch123> Belugas: The avarage radiation was increased for at least one year in europe, and noone knew what was coming down with the rain
13:57:35  <Belugas> space does not bring back oil ...
13:57:58  <Celestar> Belugas: with fusion power plants and space flight, there's no need for oil
13:58:35  <frosch123> ln: average?
13:58:38  <Celestar> You just get He-3 and H-2 from space and fuse it on Earth. 75% of our planetary problems would be solved.
13:59:12  <frosch123> Celestar: like you want to bomb three quarter off?
13:59:19  <Celestar> frosch123: nope.
13:59:34  <frosch123> :p
13:59:46  <Celestar> but 75% or our problems are because of the ill-distribution of wealth which is directly correlated to the ill-distribution of energy.
14:00:05  <Celestar> Fusion power is a way to solve the dilemma. The only way I can see up to now.
14:00:16  <frosch123> insert water between wealth and energy
14:00:36  <Belugas> Celestar, obviously, the problem is how much is going into the pockets of the rich ones ;)  Dropping oil is going to stirr some controversy.  PLus, rememeber petroleum is not only generating gaz for the pumps...
14:00:39  <Celestar> frosch123: not between, but the water distribution problem is also part of the energy distribution problem.
14:00:56  <Celestar> Belugas: no, but 99+% is
14:03:16  * Celestar is amazed by the shortsightedness of politicians every day
14:05:24  <Celestar> it may sound cruel, but maybe the Columbia disaster was the best thing that happend to space exploration in 30 years.
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14:08:54  * Belugas though it was the mars twin robots...
14:09:18  <Celestar> space exploration without human exploration is meaningless imho
14:09:46  <Celestar> The Shuttle resulted in a "go nowhere, do doing"-approach that NASA had for 25 years.
14:09:56  <Belugas> or Cassini-Huygens probe even...
14:10:06  <Celestar> similar to us Europeans, who still have a "go nowhere, do nothing"-approach
14:10:25  <Celestar> Cassini-Huygens is an outstanding mission
14:10:29  <Belugas> i differ from your opinion, Celestar.  Robot expolaration is far more usefull than human ones
14:10:40  <frosch123> agrees with belugas
14:10:40  <Belugas> they last way longer,
14:10:45  <ln> -l
14:10:46  <Belugas> can accomplish way more,
14:10:49  <Celestar> nope
14:11:08  <Belugas> and have way more instrunments to evaluate surroundings
14:11:18  <Belugas> they only lack quick decisions
14:11:20  <Celestar> From a rocket scientist point of view, Robot exploration is (should be) used to pave way for human exploration.
14:11:41  <frosch123> and what shall the humans do, which robots cannot?
14:11:51  <Celestar> Robots transmit data, Humans transmit cognitions.
14:11:58  <HMage> VERSION=`svnversion -n`
14:12:00  <Belugas> and make errors...
14:12:01  <ln> frosch123: reproduce
14:12:03  <Tefad> rocket scientist.. i assist in research and development for flight vechicle guidance and control, does this acount for anything?
14:12:16  <Celestar> frosch123: search for evidence of past life on Mars.
14:12:28  <Celestar> frosch123: pave way for future "usage" of Mars
14:12:36  <Belugas> and robots can take decisions too, if they are not using OpenTTD AI, they should do well...
14:12:39  <Tefad> usage.. exploitation
14:12:57  <Celestar> Tefad: "colonization & Terraforming" is the politically correct term :>
14:12:57  <HMage> robots with openttd ai will walk in a very funny waty
14:12:59  <HMage> way*
14:13:22  <Celestar> plus: from a cost point of view, robotic missions are no cheaper the human missions.
14:13:31  <Belugas> huu????
14:13:34  <Celestar> They never have been, and never will be.
14:14:05  <Celestar> Belugas: cost per experiment or cost per obtained knowledge is pretty equal between robotic and human missions.
14:14:36  <keyweed_> humans have been built and tested. they're fairly reliable and can adapt without the need of elaborate programming
14:14:40  * Belugas cannot imagine the cost of having humans doing the job of Spirit and Opportunity for the 1470 days and more they are working out there
14:14:45  <Celestar> for experiments, the average is around  million / experiment. ISS can lower this to around .
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14:15:43  <keyweed_> the downside of using humans is that they usually want to be flown back
14:15:48  * Belugas thinks Celestar is not rational on that matter.
14:15:51  <Celestar> keyweed_: yes.
14:15:58  <Celestar> Belugas: I'm pretty pragmatic on that matter.
14:16:45  <Celestar> A manned mission to the moon, if done right, is no more expensive than Cassini-Huygens.
14:17:05  <Celestar> "The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labor"
14:17:13  <Belugas> then, give me the digits of having 2 humans walking on Mars for 1470 and more days. Including life support and all
14:17:14  <keyweed_> too bad people aren't willing to go on kamikaze space missions
14:17:24  <keyweed_> that would reduce cost a lot
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14:17:59  <Celestar> Belugas: the thing is, how much do we obtain from a 500-day human mission to Mars. Estimations are about 100x that of what all missions to Mars have given us up to now.
14:18:16  <Belugas> or better yet, waht type of spaceship will be required to sustain a human on the Cassini mission...
14:18:36  <Belugas> no... we are talking about costs, not dividents
14:18:45  <Celestar> A properly designed human mission to Mars is about 30 billion dollars.
14:19:00  <Celestar> that's 2.5 months worth of war on Iraq
14:19:14  <Belugas> how long for that mission?
14:19:19  <keyweed_> i think it can be done cheaper
14:19:24  *** keyweed_ is now known as keyweed
14:19:36  <keyweed> virgin (russian?) style
14:19:36  <Celestar> Belugas: 500 days there, 1000 days on Mars, 500 days back. 6 people.
14:20:24  <Belugas> is it a personal estimate?
14:20:35  <keyweed> but it doesn't matter much what we think. the human race rather spends it's time blowing eachother to small bits.
14:20:50  <keyweed> and i think this will be the most popular activity for a long time to come.
14:21:06  <Celestar> Belugas: no, it's an estimate from people who iterate reference missions to Mars within NASA
14:21:16  <Belugas> got the link?
14:21:18  <Belugas> dir
14:21:23  <keyweed> ls
14:21:23  <Belugas> ous..
14:21:25  <Celestar> Belugas: not here. At home somewhere.
14:21:25  <Belugas> +p
14:22:07  <Celestar> Belugas: you can also read up on the "Mars Direct"-mission by Robert Zubrin.
14:22:16  <Belugas> noted
14:22:32  <Celestar> 30 billion however, assume that a limited number of missions are flown, not only one.
14:22:51  <Belugas> will look at it when time allows it, which i snot the case anynmore
14:22:52  <Belugas> work@work
14:22:55  <Celestar> ;)
14:23:17  * Celestar heads back to analyzing 1.5 TB of data :S
14:25:58  <Celestar> damnit. I think I'm getting sick
14:26:05  <Celestar> dunno if it's the data or something else :P
14:26:30  <Celestar> "Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month." :)
14:26:48  <keyweed> 'out of memory in central nervous system'
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14:32:19  <Ammler> frosch123: is it possible to save output from grf2html on a custom location?
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14:33:30  <frosch123> Ammler: like some "-o path" option to put data in "path/grfname/..."
14:35:07  <Ammler> yoh :-)
14:35:43  <Ammler> well, else I could make a script and move it somewhere else...
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14:39:57  <Ammler> hmm, does that mean, there is such a option?
14:40:18  <frosch123> no yet :), but maybe in 0.5
14:41:06  <frosch123> I guess easiest way is currently to copy the .grf to the wanted location and execute grf2html there
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14:46:45  <Ammller> frosch123: and could you upgrade the output to XHMTL
14:47:27  <Ammller> then you could use the output easier for other things too...
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14:48:52  <Ammller> I thought about using your tool for extracting GRFID and Name...
14:48:54  <frosch123> my knowledge about html and xhtml is on a level of 2002. If they are small changes you have to give me an example, or write a patch :) If they are big changes you will have to wait at least for 0.7
14:49:20  <frosch123> Ammler: In that case get the svn source, get freepascal and use the newgrf parser
14:50:28  <frosch123> of grf2html
14:51:35  <LordAzamath> Ammller, you meant vehID?
14:51:54  <Ammller> LordAzamath: no, just GRFID and Name (Action8)
14:52:14  <LordAzamath> but... Why do you need that?
14:52:33  <Ammller> I like to semiautomate "our" GRFTable
14:52:39  <LordAzamath> hmm..
14:52:40  <LordAzamath> ok
14:53:04  <Ammller> and also including GRFID and md5sum
14:54:04  <frosch123> Ammller: Have you tried to run OTTD with "-d grf=3"?
14:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> and why not just use the openttd code?
14:54:14  <frosch123> I guess it prints the information you are searching for
14:55:13  <LordAzamath> If you start making that xhtml thingie, you could add an option so it would gather all used IDs for vehicles.. So one can see which one is free :P
14:55:50  <frosch123> LordAzamath: Something similiar will be in 0.5
14:56:12  <Ammller> frosch123: is it possible to run OTTD without starting the game?
14:56:29  <frosch123> Try "--help" or "-h"
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15:03:38  <Ammller> hmm, I fear ottd debug mode doesn't help
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15:04:07  <glx> Ammler: probably with -v null:ticks=0
15:04:15  <Yorick> hello
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15:42:05  <Draakon> hello
15:42:13  <Yorick> hello
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15:50:46  <UnderBuilder> one question... is possible to put desert in temperate?
15:51:11  <Yorick> wwottdgd hacked it
15:51:14  * Sacro plays with WUBI
15:51:42  <Yorick> http://wiki.openttd.org/images/4/42/Temperate-snow-desert.png
15:52:03  <Draakon> plain mock-up perhaps?
15:52:20  <Yorick> no, because it had a patch released
15:52:29  <Draakon> where?
15:52:48  <UnderBuilder> :O
15:53:00  <Yorick> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/wwottdgd_snow_desert.patch
15:53:09  <Draakon> 404 - Not Found
15:53:09  <Yorick> but it got kinda removed })
15:54:03  <Yorick> maybe you could ask TrueBrain
15:54:33  <Draakon> hes not here
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15:55:05  <UnderBuilder> how they made it? I hear that the desert and the snow had the same ID for terrains and then would be impossible to have them together
15:55:25  <Yorick> if you change the ID
15:55:35  <frosch123> UnderBuilder: It only worked for exactly that map. Hardcoded.
15:55:41  <Yorick> its "hacked"
15:56:05  <frosch123> UnderBuilder: But you can open the cheat menu and switch landscape until ottd crashes :p
15:56:50  <Yorick> desert gets changed to snow that way
15:56:53  <Yorick> same id ^^
15:57:03  <UnderBuilder> would more fun if toyland were too added
15:57:05  <UnderBuilder> lol
15:57:10  <Yorick> but cola factories that produce wood are fun :)
15:57:10  <Draakon> it crashes for that? i have been switching landscape for 10 min row(after i closed the game) and no crashed happend
15:57:11  <UnderBuilder> but that's a overload
15:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a "if (coordinate in rectangel and height > blah) make desert"
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15:59:44  <Yorick> :o
15:59:54  <Yorick> itsn't that "make snow"?
16:00:54  <Belugas> 1) there is snow level in temperate
16:01:23  <Belugas> 2) it's currently a binary system: if there is not desert, it's forest (or none)
16:01:33  *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N891P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
16:01:52  <Belugas> 3) the sysatem will have to be extended to "regions" of snow/desert/forest/tree forest
16:02:28  <Belugas> 4) the whole climate scheme wil have to be re-think over, as there are lots of entertwined logics here and there
16:02:36  <Belugas> so dream on baby
16:02:53  <Draakon> lol, why dream if you can code?
16:03:13  <Belugas> 1) there is NO snow level in temperate...
16:03:19  <Sacro> Draakon: why code if you can dream
16:03:36  <Belugas> why code if it does not appeal?
16:03:55  <Draakon> sacro: so you can have the feature instead dream of it
16:03:56  <Belugas> why code a rewrite??
16:04:14  <Draakon> maybe its needed?
16:04:17  <frosch123> why code if you don't dream
16:04:19  <hylje> entwined!
16:04:54  <Belugas> wy code a lenghty process just for an eye candy?
16:05:05  <Belugas> bullshit
16:05:06  <Draakon> so the game looks good
16:05:13  <Draakon> and morden
16:05:15  <Draakon> :D
16:05:18  <hylje> to lift constraints
16:05:41  <Belugas> the game looks old by nature.
16:05:50  <Belugas> that does not going to make it fresher
16:05:57  <Belugas> this is not a constraint
16:06:00  <Belugas> this is a desing
16:06:09  <Belugas> to change it means a rewrite of the design
16:06:21  <hylje> design is pretty much about what to constrain
16:06:38  *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489B6EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:07:06  <Belugas> a constraint is not a requirememt for a change of design
16:07:18  <Belugas> that is called a new feature
16:07:31  <Draakon> right right, for conclusion, we can code, we can dream or we can play
16:07:58  <Belugas> a constraint is , for example, no more than 32 widgets to be referenced in a single window
16:08:06  <Belugas> that has been lifted
16:08:54  <Belugas> a constraint is that there is no more than 255 slots for vehicle types
16:09:01  <Belugas> and it's going to be liffted
16:09:18  <Belugas> but the climate stuff is not the same thing at all
16:09:39  <Belugas> so dream on, and shift climate with the cheats
16:09:50  <Belugas> and play, of course
16:10:09  <Draakon> or code, if person wants to code, let him code, shall we?
16:10:53  <Sacro> SISTERS ARE DOING IT FOR THEMSELVES!
16:10:56  * Sacro whistles
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16:11:33  *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489E8EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:11:39  <UnderBuilder> well, the climates thing for me is not necesary, so instead why not make a grf for making tropic/artic only industries appear in temperate?
16:12:16  <UnderBuilder> that would be nice to see in WWOTTDGD instead of the buggy multi-climate patch
16:13:03  <Belugas> there are two ways of coding.  To hack or to code.    I hope that if anyone wants to dwelve on the matter, it would be to code it, and not to hack it
16:14:25  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/]
16:14:43  <Yorick> what's the dev opinion about my flags-in-clientlist-patch?
16:17:55  <UnderBuilder> so, what about the omni industrial temperate?
16:18:43  <frosch123> UnderBuilder: Read newgrfspecs about Action0 for cargos and industries. That should be enough for you to do it.
16:19:36  <Belugas> Yorick: Me? sorry to be blunt, but i don't care, since i dont play network.  and i don't kow where it is right now, so i can't even comment on the code style nor the code itself
16:19:54  <frosch123> If you fear hex coding, use grfmaker, which should suit perfectly for an action0-only task.
16:20:50  <Draakon> grfmaker? what the heck is that?
16:20:59  <Yorick> ok, (but no MP?!)
16:21:21  *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493CFE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:21:25  <Belugas> i don't even play anymore
16:21:29  <Belugas> i code and i code
16:21:32  <frosch123> Draakon: a gui-based program for coding newgrfs, search forums
16:21:45  <Yorick> I'll upload it somewhere as soon as I have the extra language flags in place
16:21:45  <Draakon> hmm, sounds neet
16:25:38  <Draakon> frosch123:do i still need to write in Hex with GRFMaker?
16:25:59  <Belugas> yup
16:26:04  <Belugas> waht's wrong with hex?
16:26:48  <Draakon> bunch of numbers and letters that doesnt make sense(c++, java, php and python for example make)
16:27:06  <Draakon> like reading some cordinates
16:27:08  * frosch123 has tried grfmaker only one or two times and does hardly know details.
16:27:15  <Belugas> well... they do make an awfull lot of sens....
16:27:45  <Belugas> and there are easy ways to translate them
16:28:38  <Belugas> on windows, the calculator has a "scientific" mode where yu can switch between hex, dec and binary
16:28:38  <Draakon> for me, as a noob, looked at C++ in the first time and Hex coding in grf, i understanded C++ better then Hex
16:28:41  <Belugas> even octal...
16:28:59  <Belugas> hex is so simpler than c++...
16:29:12  <Belugas> the mian idea to keep in mind in 16
16:29:13  <frosch123> Draakon: You won't have to deal with hex that much when using grfmaker
16:29:15  <Belugas> that's the key
16:29:31  <Belugas> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16:29:41  <Belugas> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
16:29:45  <Belugas> that's it
16:30:02  <Belugas> with that, you can understand it
16:30:22  <Draakon> belugas: C++ is like a normal text that you can like read like a story of an adventure, while Hex you read it like it was your first time in even reading something
16:30:56  <Yorick> I fail at adding flags :(
16:32:04  <Belugas> Draakon, hex is just a numbering system based on 16.  C++ is a whole language on its own
16:32:10  <Belugas> you cannot compare them at all...
16:32:32  <Draakon> maybe some can, but still C++ is easier for me
16:32:34  <Yorick> it displays a questionmark in the client list, and a lang_any sprite in the client window
16:32:46  <Yorick> I probably forgot a place
16:33:06  <Belugas> well... don't let it stop you
16:33:25  <Belugas> just have a hex to dex and a dec to hex converter
16:33:39  <Belugas> and after a while, it will come fluidly
16:33:42  <Yorick> ?base 16 10 0xFF
16:33:52  <Belugas> and for the record, i prefer a lot more the hex system...
16:33:57  <Yorick> @base 16 10 FF
16:33:58  <DorpsGek> Yorick: 255
16:34:45  <Yorick> when I decode openttdw.grf, the extra flags are in it
16:35:01  <Yorick> I've not changed the md5 check yet, but that shouldn't be a problem
16:35:58  <UnderBuilder> is there a programming language hex-based like nfo?
16:36:28  <frosch123> UnderBuilder: There are languages based on whitespace
16:36:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> UnderBuilder: you can code directly in machine code
16:37:00  <frosch123> Yorick: Did you increase FLAGS_SPRITE_COUNT ?
16:37:06  <glx> Yorick: did you update the action 5 handler?
16:37:12  <Yorick> the what?
16:37:14  <frosch123> hehe, faster :)
16:37:16  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
16:37:33  <Yorick> I increased the FLAGS_SPRITE_COUNT yes
16:37:59  <Yorick> the sprites are added to the info
16:38:11  <frosch123> Does "openttd -d grf=2" report that the correct amount of sprites was loaded?
16:38:18  <Yorick> I'll see
16:39:29  *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Meh, hex is teh l337 speak :P]
16:40:08  <Yorick> no
16:40:12  <Yorick> it doesn't
16:40:19  <Yorick> it reports 28 sprites loaded
16:40:27  <Yorick> while the default flag count is 29 :o
16:40:36  <glx> I know, you didn't update the action 5 line in nfo
16:40:48  <Yorick> I probably didn't no ^^
16:41:06  <Yorick> I don't know anything about nfo
16:41:36  <frosch123> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action5
16:41:37  <Yorick> 05 14 1D, it says
16:41:47  <frosch123> update the <num-sprites> field
16:42:05  <glx> 1D -> 1E
16:42:29  <Yorick> @base 16 10 1D
16:42:29  <DorpsGek> Yorick: 29
16:42:57  <Yorick> lets see
16:43:37  <Yorick> @base 10 16 36
16:43:37  <DorpsGek> Yorick: 24
16:44:14  <Yorick> that's clear, isn't it, but not very 1Ey
16:45:36  <Yorick> I'll try with 05 14 24
16:48:29  <Yorick> ok, now the server list fixing
16:49:53  <Patrick`> @base
16:49:53  <DorpsGek> Patrick`: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
16:50:07  <Patrick`> @base 10 1 30
16:50:07  <DorpsGek> Patrick`: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
16:50:10  <Patrick`> aww.
16:50:13  <Patrick`> @base 10 2 30
16:50:14  <DorpsGek> Patrick`: 11110
16:50:48  <Celestar> hm
16:51:01  <UnderBuilder> I'm guessing...
16:51:09  <UnderBuilder> @base 10 5 28
16:51:09  <DorpsGek> UnderBuilder: 103
16:51:15  <UnderBuilder> :)
16:51:18  <Celestar> oh man
16:51:36  <Patrick`> aww, he only goes up to base 36
16:51:41  <Celestar> I really need some help with that Newgrf stuff soon :P
16:51:50  <Yorick> now it still displays the any flag in the network list
16:52:00  <Yorick> I probably forgot something else
16:52:29  <LordAzamath> Celestar, what for?
16:54:17  <Celestar> I'll go ahead with the Newgrf_ports
16:54:23  <Celestar> and join forces with RichK on this one
16:55:14  <Celestar> Belugas: why do we still have a newhouses branch?
16:55:19  * Yorick needs help
16:55:35  * LordAzamath is willing to help :P
16:55:35  <Celestar> doing what?
16:55:46  <Yorick> LordAzamath can't help :p
16:55:51  <Yorick> I'm adding some flags
16:56:01  <LordAzamath> I can check your nfo :P
16:56:07  <Yorick> but the gamelist keeps displaying the anyflag on unknown languages
16:56:15  <Yorick> new*
16:56:26  <Yorick> LordAzamath: the loading is done correctly ;)
16:57:11  <Celestar> Yorick: where is the draw-flag code?
16:57:23  <Yorick> network_gui.cpp
16:57:32  <Yorick> but, I have to go now :(
16:57:34  <Yorick> bye all!
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17:03:01  <Belugas> Celestar, we do still have newhouses ?
17:03:10  <Belugas> that is new to me
17:04:27  <frosch123> no, there is no newhouses branch
17:08:07  <Belugas> svn list svn://svn.openttd.org/branches do confirm both my surprise and frosch123's statement :)
17:09:00  <peter1138> map.. hehe
17:09:18  <Belugas> yeah :D
17:09:23  <Belugas> wb peter1138
17:09:37  *** pax```_ [~pax@DSL217-132-166-103.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #openttd
17:10:37  <Yexo> When trying to compile openttd under cygwin, I keep getting "pngread.c: (...): undefined reference to `_setjmp`"
17:10:49  <Yexo> libpng and libpng-dev are installed
17:10:52  <pax```_> hi, i've a problem... I can't seem to find `win' button =( jk, I was wondering what makes a town/station no longer accept goods... Is there some kind of goods counter that says a town needs x goods and as soon as it's fulfilled it doesn't accept anymore?
17:11:28  <LordAzamath> no
17:11:28  <Belugas> nope
17:11:51  <Belugas> mostly, the town has shrinked
17:11:52  <LordAzamath> if it doesn't have enough goods accepting buildings in range
17:12:04  <LordAzamath> then it won't accept goods
17:12:14  *** Morloth [~bram.ridd@mail.tjip.com] has quit [Quit: Awaaaay!]
17:12:15  <Belugas> gonna said that...
17:12:23  <Belugas> saved me some keystrokes :D
17:12:27  <Gonozal_VIII> use the ? tool and click on buildings, then you see things like 3/8 goods
17:12:32  <pax```_> =( Is there a way to make it unshrink? >.<
17:12:46  <Belugas> not deleting houses, for once...
17:12:49  <Yexo> build a pax netwerk :)
17:12:52  <LordAzamath> have a passenger service running to the town
17:13:09  <LordAzamath> and perhaps Fund new buildings
17:13:20  <Tekky> Is the current passenger destinations patch similar to passenger destinations in SimuTrans?
17:13:33  <Belugas> dunno
17:13:34  <UnderBuilder> idea for controlling the town grow in temperate: make the towns only grow when passengers/mail/goods are being supplied
17:13:37  <Belugas> maybe, maybe not
17:13:46  <Belugas> ask prissi
17:14:05  <Patrick`> UnderBuilder: isn't that already implemented?
17:14:09  <Yexo> UnderBuilder, but goods are only accepted by big enough towns, so small towns cannot grow that way
17:14:21  <Patrick`> delivering passengers to small towns makes them grow
17:14:31  <Patrick`> but towns naturally grow at a slow rate, is that what you want to disable?
17:14:41  <Yexo> yeah, but UnderBuilder said make them ONLY grow when they are supplied
17:14:52  <mrfrenzy> it would be nice if all towns accepted goods, the amount proportionate to town size
17:15:07  <mrfrenzy> and town growth increases the more goods, food, and passengers they get
17:15:08  <UnderBuilder> I forget, only towns with above 1000 citizens require goods
17:15:39  <UnderBuilder> or maybe 500/750
17:15:48  <pax```_> Ouch... Fund new buildings is costly :(
17:16:17  <Belugas> you think?  chek how it cost to fund a new industry ;)
17:16:30  <UnderBuilder> so you require to transport pax and mail constantly to make the city build offices and buildings that accept goods and then you can do it grow more
17:16:43  <Patrick`> buildings accept goods.
17:16:56  <Patrick`> Yexo: I thought they still grew on supply when town growth was set to "off"
17:17:05  <glx> Yexo: setjmp is not provided by libpng
17:17:21  <glx> it should be part of standard dev env
17:17:30  <Yexo> Patrick`, didn't know that, gonna try it out
17:17:43  <Yexo> glx, any idea what package it could be in?
17:17:56  <LordAzamath> ok.. bbl perhaps
17:17:58  <LordAzamath> bye
17:18:07  <glx> dunno
17:18:13  <UnderBuilder> also, wasn't actually the town grow in temperate based on quantity of stations active?
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17:18:33  <frosch123> Yexo: try libc
17:18:34  <Yexo> I can compile, but only with ./configure --without-libfreetype --without-libpng
17:22:23  <glx> you followed http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Cygwin ?
17:23:01  <Yexo> glx, shame on me, I didn't
17:25:39  <UnderBuilder> one question, the town growth in temperate depends on passengers transported or in the quantity of stations active in the city?
17:27:22  <Yexo> looks like my cygwin install is f*cked up
17:27:45  <Yexo> A lot of packages I'm sure I have installed don't show up in the setup program
17:32:44  <Yexo> reading the wiki better did it
17:32:50  <Yexo> I had to pass --disable-static to ./configure
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17:35:44  <pax```_> Is there a way to tell trains to just wait until they have a green light rather than going back looking for another way?
17:36:31  <mrfrenzy> how do you mean "going back"
17:36:46  <mrfrenzy> if you use one way signals they will not reverse
17:37:14  <Yexo> they will reverse even with one-way signals
17:37:35  <Yexo> only there turn back quickly because they arrive at the back of another one-way signal
17:37:58  <mrfrenzy> well unless you disable reversing like me ;)
17:38:32  *** anhedral is now known as dih
17:38:43  <pax```_> Hmm... How do you disable reversing then?
17:38:48  <dih> :-)
17:39:01  <mrfrenzy> in the patch "trains only reverse at stations and end of line"
17:39:04  <mrfrenzy> or somethng like that
17:43:14  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:43:15  <kaan> I just found the nicest bug :) http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1849
17:43:43  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:45:29  <dih> say( !Sacro ? 'shit' : 'hello' );
17:45:31  <dih> shit
17:45:35  <dih> ^^
17:45:41  <dih> what a friendly welcome, eh?
17:45:45  <glx> kaan: probably nothing we can do :)
17:46:10  <mrfrenzy> kaan: WHY, do you keep your music in C:\testpath890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 ?!
17:46:11  <Sacro> hm
17:46:14  <kaan> glx: oh, thats too bad
17:46:17  <Yexo> I linked openttd succesfully now, but it won't start
17:46:36  <Yexo> It shows a window that is completely black with the openttd-cursor in it
17:46:37  <kaan> mrfrenzy: actually i dont
17:46:44  <mrfrenzy> :P
17:46:48  <mrfrenzy> kinda figured ;)
17:47:07  <kaan> mrfrenzy: i keep it in C:\Documents and Settings\Klaus\My Documents\My OTTD Builds\trunk_r12187_yapp_r12187_v4_3_svn.patch_08-03-2008_14-41-02
17:47:26  <mrfrenzy> aah, that's actually a valid path ;)
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17:51:09  <UnderBuilder> UnderBuilder>	one question, the town growth in temperate depends on passengers transported or in the quantity of stations active in the city?
17:53:13  <Tekky> Yexo: which operating system do you have problems running OpenTTD on?
17:53:21  <Yexo> windows xp
17:53:36  <Tekky> which compiler are you using?
17:53:39  <Yexo> and I can run openttd fine, just my newly compiled version gives problems
17:53:55  <Yexo> gcc 3.4.4 under cygwin
17:54:06  <mrfrenzy> Yexo: have you tried buildottd
17:54:11  <Yexo> yep, works fine
17:54:13  <mrfrenzy> works really smooth here
17:54:29  <mrfrenzy> you can also use that environment to build whatever version you like
17:54:40  <Yexo> if I compile with ./configure --without-libfreetype --without-libpng && make it works fine
17:54:51  <Tekky> I'm not sure if the cygwin POSIX emulation environment is compatible with OpenTTD. Try using MinGW/MSYS instead.
17:54:57  <Yexo> But I just compiled with ./configure --disable-static and that gives problems
17:55:07  <kaan> Yexo: when compiling under cygwin there are some .ddl files you need to copy to the ottd dir
17:55:40  <Yexo> I did that, before it wouldn't even start
17:55:41  <dih> .ddl ?
17:55:50  <Yexo> and that's only when compiling with --disable-static
17:55:51  <glx> Yexo: if you use --disable-static you need the dlls
17:55:52  <kaan> oh, .dll
17:58:56  <UnderBuilder> one question, with an 256k connection what is the maximum mapzise of the server I can join?
17:59:29  <mrfrenzy> doesn't matter
17:59:39  <mrfrenzy> only problem is if you can't keep up to the changes
17:59:52  <glx> depends onmax_join_time I think
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18:02:11  <Celestar> boo :P
18:02:21  <Bjarni> hi Celestar
18:02:23  <Bjarni> long time no see
18:02:26  <Celestar> ya
18:02:31  <Bjarni> we missed you
18:03:33  <dih> Bjarni!
18:03:36  <dih> :-)
18:03:53  <kaan> hi bjarni
18:04:02  <Yexo> Well, I'll just give up for now ;(
18:04:19  <Bjarni> hi kaan
18:04:23  <Bjarni> long time no see :)
18:04:28  <kaan> yup
18:04:42  <Bjarni> did I enter some sort of time warp or something?
18:04:53  <kaan> yes, but dont tell anyone ;)
18:04:57  <Bjarni> the channel is full of people who haven't been here for ages
18:05:42  <Celestar> ;)
18:05:45  <Celestar> shit happens :P
18:05:53  <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni!
18:06:10  <dih> you are late
18:06:13  <dih> late late late
18:06:27  <Gonozal_VIII> channel was not scrolling and i didn't notice :-/
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18:12:41  <Belugas> kaan, i think that your http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1849 is not related to ottd
18:12:44  <peter1138> Right, so...
18:13:02  <kaan> Belugas: ok, then what is it?
18:13:06  <Belugas> it might be more related to the os's palyer it self
18:13:31  <Belugas> thing is, i do not see yet any array delimiting the name been send to the driver yet
18:13:33  <peter1138> Not MAX_PATH?
18:13:38  <Belugas> in fact, it it a pchar
18:13:48  <glx> shoud be MAX_PATH
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18:14:02  <peter1138> Which is 260.
18:14:03  <kaan> hmmm, then it would be likely that its a windows thing
18:14:10  <Belugas> dmusic.cpp:140
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18:14:37  <Belugas> your filename reaches 130 chars, more or less
18:14:56  <Belugas> unles...
18:14:57  <Belugas> MultiByteToWideChar
18:15:32  <Belugas> who will double, i think, the lenght, or something
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18:16:51  <Belugas> char filename[MAX_PATH];
18:16:52  <Belugas> right
18:17:47  <Belugas> so...
18:18:15  <glx> kaan: using win32 or dmusic?
18:19:00  <kaan> glx ohhh, dont ask tough questions ;) where do i look it up? i think it might be win32 as i didnt include any dx headers
18:19:16  <glx> ,...char start_song[260]; <-- nice magic value there :)
18:19:29  <Belugas> where?
18:19:45  <glx> win32_m
18:20:00  * Celestar is going home
18:20:02  <Celestar> have a nice weekend
18:20:08  <peter1138> Bye Celestar.
18:20:08  <kaan> bye :)
18:20:32  <Belugas> ehehe
18:20:35  <Belugas> bye Celestar
18:21:30  <Sacro> !seen michi_cc
18:21:34  <Sacro> ~seen michi_cc
18:21:37  <Sacro> @seen michi_cc
18:21:38  <DorpsGek> Sacro: michi_cc was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 21 hours, 18 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <michi_cc> well, that doc change before was rather telling. enough time to prepare. I'm watching commits rather closely currently, have to keep up with what I might have to change this time again :)
18:21:41  <Sacro> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `yapf/follow_track.d', needed by `yapf/follow_track.o'.  Stop.
18:21:44  <Sacro> :(
18:21:58  <peter1138> Use the right revision...
18:22:06  <peter1138> 12179. YAPP 4.2...
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18:24:23  <kaan> afk
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18:28:53  <Belugas> glx, maybe, just wid guess, the 260 value has been hardcoded since it would have been a mess to add the proper include
18:28:57  <Belugas> wild
18:29:11  <dih> hello Belugas
18:29:21  <Belugas> hey Dih
18:29:45  <dih> a capital D ??
18:29:48  <dih> that hurts
18:29:50  <dih> :'(
18:30:02  <Bjarni> it calls for a capital punishment
18:30:09  <dih> lol
18:30:38  <glx> Belugas: no MAX_PATH is available :)
18:31:16  *** Pinchiukas [~lox@62.212.218.187] has joined #openttd
18:31:58  <Pinchiukas> isn't there a free version of the data files so I could play openttd?
18:32:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12366 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Codechange: use MAX_PATH instead hardcoded value
18:32:30  <glx> no you need the original files
18:32:56  <dih> how far is the OpenGFX project?
18:33:05  <dih> how OPEN is it actually :-P
18:33:19  <Belugas> depends wghere you are, regarding the forums server, dih :D
18:33:55  <kaan> back
18:34:21  <dih> lol
18:35:12  <Belugas> point taken and proven, glx
18:35:15  <Wolf01> hello
18:35:24  <Belugas> hey Wolf01
18:35:35  <kaan> hi Wolf01
18:36:17  <LordAzamath> dih, if you want to ask about OpenGFX, please highlight me :D
18:36:40  <peter1138> Is it open?
18:36:43  <Pinchiukas> glx: as if everybody here has bought the game? :)
18:36:57  <LordAzamath> peter1138: Is it closed? :o
18:37:16  <peter1138> Is it up?
18:37:25  <LordAzamath> IIRC it used to be open though..
18:37:27  <ln> Bjarni!
18:37:47  <LordAzamath> well.. It hasn't yet died..
18:38:08  <LordAzamath> but we haven't got any serious things lately either
18:38:09  <Bjarni> ln: what now?
18:38:48  <LordAzamath> but one can... Bjarni!.. can't hope that somebody makes atleast one good thing per day
18:38:54  <Pinchiukas> somebody give me the damn data files :) I'm so keen to try the game
18:38:57  <ln> Bjarni: just an announcement that i noticed you have joined the channel.
18:39:13  <pax```_> Pinchiukas, you can get  the game at abandonware sites(hope i'm not breaking room rules by saying that >.<)
18:39:22  <kaan> Pinchiukas: do a search in the forums
18:39:26  <LordAzamath> breakruler :|
18:39:32  <Pinchiukas> pax```_: if you were telling me a warez site then maybe
18:39:43  <Pinchiukas> pax```_: anyway, thanks :)
18:39:47  * peter1138 ponders running a Gonozal_VIII's patch-pack server
18:40:04  <Pinchiukas> I'll make a package of the files and openttd and post it to my local tracker :D
18:40:08  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
18:40:12  <LordAzamath> peter1138: Soon another ChrisIn will appear too :P
18:40:21  <LordAzamath> then another server? :P
18:40:29  <peter1138> no
18:40:38  <glx> Pinchiukas: don't do that
18:40:52  <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> but one can... Bjarni!.. can't hope that somebody makes atleast one good thing per day <--- I make at least one good thing each day
18:40:52  <glx> openttd files should not be distributed with ttd files
18:41:02  <Bjarni> in fact I make a lot of great stuff every day
18:41:14  <Bjarni> so much that it's hard for me to find time to code OTTD stuff :s
18:41:21  <Pinchiukas> glx: why not? It's already an illegal warez site
18:41:26  *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
18:41:37  <ln> glx: that doesn't make any difference really, does it.. (though I agree with you)
18:42:03  <LordAzamath> bjarni, I was referring to OpenTTD related stuff..
18:42:07  <LordAzamath> good things...
18:42:16  <Pinchiukas> you're all confusing me
18:42:21  <LordAzamath> like another sprites
18:42:32  * LordAzamath sometimes confuzes himself too
18:43:20  <LordAzamath> and because people have to do some other good things in their day aswell, you may not fear some several-day stallings :P
18:43:22  <glx> OpenTTD requires TTD files, but it should not distribute them
18:43:42  <LordAzamath> Because the grfs are copyrighted
18:43:45  <glx> we may have problems if it's the case
18:43:54  <LordAzamath> and OpenTTD has no rights to distribute them :P
18:44:20  <Bjarni> some people add those files though but we can't recommend those downloads... who knows if they have been modified in any way ;)
18:44:45  <Bjarni> well
18:45:05  <Bjarni> there are some people drawing sprites and hoping that we will some day have our own graphics
18:45:08  <Pinchiukas> so if I put the ttd data files along with openttd, then openttd would still not be distributing them
18:45:21  <Pinchiukas> how many sprites are there anyway?
18:45:30  <LordAzamath> trg1r.grf has...
18:45:30  <Bjarni> err
18:45:32  <Bjarni> a lot
18:45:33  <Belugas> over 5000
18:45:37  <ln> glx: if the copyright holders wanted to get OTTD in trouble, that would very well succeed with the current things. whether the graphics are distributed with it is only a small nuance.
18:45:41  <LordAzamath> 4791 sprites
18:45:43  <Pinchiukas> but they're so small and simple
18:46:00  <LordAzamath> Pinchiukas: Then try to draw them
18:46:06  <Belugas> sprites, sounds, music...
18:46:08  <LordAzamath> if you think they are small and simple
18:46:11  <glx> ln: right, but it's safer to have separate things ;)
18:46:14  <Pinchiukas> I'm not a drawer at all, but it looks simple to me :)
18:46:16  <Bjarni> ln: I disagree
18:46:23  <SmatZ> ln: I doubt
18:46:28  <Pinchiukas> I assume some of you are openttd developers?
18:46:34  <Bjarni> no
18:46:41  <Bjarni> we are all just freaks in here
18:46:50  <Pinchiukas> did you try contacting the ttd owners to ask to make the game open source or something?
18:46:50  <LordAzamath> bjarni, glx and SmatZ certainly not
18:46:50  <Belugas> the point is, right now, distribution of data has never happended.
18:46:51  <Belugas> only exe
18:46:56  <Bjarni> doing nothing but bullying the new guys :P
18:46:57  <SmatZ> nor Belugas
18:47:25  <Pinchiukas> I was also curious about the multiplayer thing - how is that done? I just see scores of others? that doesn't sound much fun :/
18:47:30  <ln> Bjarni: you are completely free to disagree, but that doesn't change anything.
18:47:31  <Bjarni> DorpsGek is a developer though
18:47:38  <SmatZ> :-)
18:47:40  <Belugas> it's not a matter of contacting or not
18:47:46  <LordAzamath> Pinchiukas: Atari was contacted..
18:47:49  <Belugas> it is a matter of ditribution
18:48:05  <Pinchiukas> Belugas: I don't quite understand what you mean
18:48:23  <Belugas> distributin is not allowed
18:48:27  <Belugas> that's it
18:48:45  <Belugas> we tried many time to contact Atari
18:48:46  <Pinchiukas> but if atari released the game/content as freeware, it'd be legal
18:48:48  <SmatZ> Belugas: do you mean distribution of TTD?
18:48:57  <Pinchiukas> Belugas: what did they say?
18:48:59  <ln> Bjarni: copyrighted text strings are distributed with OTTD, for one.
18:49:04  <Belugas> the fact we did not received any answers does not mean we can distribtue anything
18:49:20  <Pinchiukas> of course
18:49:25  <Pinchiukas> ah the bastards! :)
18:49:27  <glx> <Pinchiukas> but if atari released the game/content as freeware, it'd be legal <-- and ttd is still not free
18:49:48  *** pax```_ [~pax@DSL217-132-166-103.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49:58  <Pinchiukas> it's a shame :/
18:50:09  <Pinchiukas> but don't tell me that all of you have bought the game :)
18:50:10  * LordAzamath wonders if a fundraiser to buy TTD rights to the community would have any value..
18:50:20  <LordAzamath> Pinchiukas: I have bought the game
18:50:33  <Pinchiukas> I'd think they would want a lot more money than a fundraiser could raise
18:50:34  <Belugas> LordAzamath, a million might not be enough i fear
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18:50:43  <Belugas> $
18:50:43  <Pinchiukas> though I'm not an expert in those matters :)
18:50:45  <ln> LordAzamath: first one would have to find out who owns the copyright.
18:50:53  <LordAzamath> Well.. yes
18:51:05  <peter1138> CS's agency say they do.
18:51:13  <LordAzamath> Marjack?
18:51:17  <glx> atari doesn't know :)
18:51:18  <LordAzamath> j->y
18:51:24  <SmatZ> Pinchiukas: nobody says you have to get TTD in an illegal way - everytime somebody asks where to download TTD, devs (and everyone else here) say to buy it
18:51:42  <Pinchiukas> is it even possible to buy it now?
18:51:45  <LordAzamath> yes
18:51:48  <glx> on ebay
18:52:33  <LordAzamath> but it's so old game.. Maybe the owners would be so kind to "sell" the rights for a symbolic 1 EUR or something :P
18:52:42  <LordAzamath> just for freewill
18:52:53  <SmatZ> LordAzamath: I doubt :)
18:52:57  <LordAzamath> why not
18:52:57  <Ammller> SmatZ: you should give him that link: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3407
18:53:21  <SmatZ> Ammller: well, I am not happy this thread is at tt-forums
18:53:35  <LordAzamath> it doesn't bring in any money to anybody even right now..
18:53:48  <glx> SmatZ: tt-forums is not ottd forum
18:54:49  <SmatZ> glx: yes, at least :) but it stil can be connected with OTTD, and theoretically it could be used against OTTD (like owen is an OTTD dev, tt-forums are the most known forum about OTTD, many OTTD devs are speaking there, etc)
18:54:52  <Ammller> I couldn't play ottd without that thread or simular at tt-ms.de
18:55:05  <Ammller> lost my floppies long time ago
18:55:39  * peter1138 pats his trusty CD
18:55:45  <Ammller> :-)
18:55:46  <peter1138> Let's add a CD check...
18:56:14  <Ammller> online activation :P
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18:56:56  <SmatZ> yeah, distribute OTTD with SecuRom or similiar soft :-x
18:57:03  <SmatZ> running on all platforms...
18:57:58  <hylje> get some bored hacker do elaborate activation stuff
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19:02:49  <LordAzamath> I still think tha.... Well.. stupid thought
19:03:44  <Belugas> therefor yiu still are
19:03:49  <Belugas> that's good :D
19:05:40  <LordAzamath> I still am what?
19:06:43  <Gonozal_VIII> cogito ergo sum
19:06:45  <Belugas> "i think, therefor I Am"...
19:06:49  * Belugas nods
19:07:03  <LordAzamath> ...
19:07:08  <LordAzamath> /leave pff
19:07:11  <Belugas> but i was avoiding the latin text, as it wold have confused LordAzamath even more...
19:07:12  <LordAzamath> hmm..
19:07:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
19:07:23  <LordAzamath> ...
19:07:41  <Gonozal_VIII> i never learned latin but that's the kind of stuff you just know
19:08:02  *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
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19:08:40  <yorick> Celestar, have you looked into the language flags?
19:08:49  <LordAzamath> helllo yorick
19:08:55  <orudge> SmatZ / Ammler / whoever: as long as no official OpenTTD devs give out those links and suggest they be used with OpenTTD, I don't see it's too much of a problem
19:08:57  <yorick> hello :p
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19:09:02  <orudge> although you may argue it's dubious
19:09:03  <orudge> well, yes
19:09:12  <orudge> but if not, we'd just get way too many threads asking where to get TTD
19:09:32  <LordAzamath> orudge: But aren't you also a dev..? :P
19:09:38  <yorick> he was
19:09:46  <orudge> well
19:09:47  <orudge> I am
19:09:49  <Belugas> STILL
19:09:51  <orudge> I'm just semi-inactive
19:09:55  <orudge> :P
19:10:01  <orudge> I do have that new sound engine patch to finish up
19:10:05  <orudge> but it's not likely to be 0.6 anyway
19:10:14  <orudge> as it'd be a fairly major change
19:10:15  <LordAzamath> orudge: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Developers
19:10:17  <LordAzamath> :P
19:10:31  <yorick> he retired, but unretired some time ago
19:10:36  <yorick> not to make any commits after that
19:10:45  <orudge> not true
19:10:53  <orudge> but my commits tend to be minor in nature :p
19:10:55  <orudge> eg, related to OS/2
19:10:57  <orudge> anyway
19:11:06  <orudge> I'm still active in that I maintain the forums and the donations and all that sort of stuff
19:11:21  <orudge> [19:09:30] <LordAzamath> orudge: But aren't you also a dev..? :P <-- yes, but I haven't said "oh use these downloads WITH OpenTTD"
19:11:23  <orudge> I just link to them...
19:11:26  <orudge> which isn't quite the same
19:11:36  <orudge> anyway, it's all a bit dubious, but I can't see there's much of a way around it
19:12:52  <peter1138> OFFICIAL TOP GUN JOYSTICK
19:12:56  <peter1138> I'm so proud :o
19:13:16  <orudge> :o
19:13:26  <hylje> OFFICIAL TOP GUN ANTI TANK MISSILE LAUNCHER ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCcFgSHSP8E )
19:13:55  <hylje> what, no top gun, i teh lied
19:13:58  <hylje> top gear rather.
19:14:11  <peter1138> Fail.
19:14:18  *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493CFE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:14:19  <orudge> hmm, Top Gun meets Top GEar
19:14:22  <orudge> that could be interesting
19:14:25  <Ammller> another link for downloading ttdx: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=transport+tycoon+download+-open&btnG=Google+Search
19:14:29  *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:14:44  <peter1138> We should release RC1.
19:14:58  <peter1138> Then we're bound to get another dozen bug reports for beta5...
19:15:16  <peter1138> Ammller, nobody cares.
19:15:19  <orudge> Ammler: download.transporttycoon.net was set up mainly because I got literally hundreds of people asking for it on my site
19:15:23  <SmatZ> hylje: I do not like it when people hurt things :-x
19:15:24  <orudge> if Chris Sawyer/whoever would just rerelase TTD
19:15:32  <orudge> it would probably make them back a bit
19:15:33  <orudge> of course
19:15:39  <orudge> that could then bring OpenTTD into further murky waters
19:15:40  <orudge> but oh well
19:18:00  <Ammller> the only thing he could do is sponsoring ottd...
19:18:05  <LordAzamath> hmm... But what does Chris Sawyer think of (Open)TTD(Patch)?
19:18:07  <LordAzamath> anyway
19:18:11  <orudge> He doesn't like either of them
19:18:15  <LordAzamath> why?
19:18:19  <hylje> OpenTTDPatch
19:18:22  <LordAzamath> :P
19:18:22  <orudge> he likes his games they way he makes them
19:18:25  <orudge> he doesn't like people modifying them
19:18:30  <orudge> or messing with his "artistic vision" and so on
19:18:45  <LordAzamath> hmm.. Could learn from Valve :P
19:18:48  <Ammller> LordAzamath: same as some GRF Maker do too...
19:19:13  <LordAzamath> Ammller: Michael Blunck?
19:19:32  <Ammller> buhh, dunno, if he don't like it
19:19:43  <LordAzamath> well then, who?
19:19:57  <Ammller> but some other guys has in the licence that you should not change nfo
19:20:17  <LordAzamath> even fo your own use?
19:20:26  <Ammller> exactly
19:20:38  <LordAzamath> well... he'll never know..
19:21:27  * LordAzamath considers licencing all his work so far with no-use licence :P. That means that you are not allowed to use them.
19:21:43  <Ammller> yup, has nothing to do with legality, but respect
19:21:44  <LordAzamath> but you are allowed to download them though
19:22:11  <yorick> LordAzamath: which means that the whole opengrf project is not very open anymore
19:22:23  <LordAzamath> It's not my work
19:22:45  <LordAzamath> I only started discussion and update (sometimes) first two posts
19:23:01  <yorick> and the tropical bank?
19:23:10  <yorick> the flags?
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19:23:44  <LordAzamath> gahh.. I've done too many things to now deny them :P
19:23:56  <yorick> >)
19:24:09  <LordAzamath> so use them as you like as long as you won't say that you made them :P
19:24:21  <LordAzamath> And that's usually my whole licence
19:24:33  <Ammller> hmm, did you also public the source?
19:24:46  <LordAzamath> Ammller: Well.. no
19:24:53  <yorick> @base 16 10 24
19:24:54  <DorpsGek> yorick: 36
19:25:02  <Ammller> so its closed, but free
19:25:02  <LordAzamath> I don't have most of commented nfos myself
19:25:11  <yorick> stupid...I only remember the hex values now XD
19:25:20  <LordAzamath> I *could* release uncommented nfos though :P
19:25:28  <LordAzamath> as a source
19:25:43  <ln> DorpsGek: are you as smart as Bjarni?
19:26:19  <yorick> try chatting with another bot, The_Master for example
19:26:26  <Patrick`> DEADBEEFBABE
19:26:31  <Pinchiukas> so Chris Sawyer is the author of all these tycoon games?
19:26:35  <yorick> yes
19:26:41  <Patrick`> YES
19:26:43  <yorick> [20:26] <@yorick> The_Master, are you as smart as Bjarni?
19:26:43  <yorick> [20:26] <@The_Master> yorick: I know.
19:26:49  <ln> what "all these tycoon games"?
19:26:59  <yorick> rollercoaster, transport
19:27:01  <Patrick`> transport, railroad, rollercoaster
19:27:15  <Pinchiukas> locomotion, transport tycoon
19:27:16  <yorick> locomotion aswell
19:27:19  <yorick> ^^
19:27:24  <ln> then the answer must be Chris Sawyer is the author of some of them.
19:27:25  <Patrick`> him and sid meier basically had a thing going where they'd hang out and swap game ideas
19:27:34  <Patrick`> and DNA.
19:27:44  <Pinchiukas> lol
19:27:53  <yorick> Chris Sawyes is a company, not a person name ;)
19:27:53  <Patrick`> also: I'd take it in the ass for spore.
19:28:05  <Patrick`> scuse me, someone has control of my terminal
19:28:11  * LordAzamath knows no Sawyes company :o
19:28:40  <yorick> NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES         =   36 <-- shouldn't this be changed in the masterserver_updater aswell?
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19:28:58  <LordAzamath> If you ask it, it probably should
19:29:01  <Pinchiukas> so how does multiplayer in openttd work?
19:29:34  <LordAzamath> you join a server and play
19:29:43  <yorick> and have chat, see others actions
19:29:45  <LordAzamath> against other opponents
19:29:55  <LordAzamath> and get addicted
19:29:59  <Pinchiukas> :)
19:29:59  <yorick> can play in the same companies and agains other
19:30:11  <Pinchiukas> I can connect my railroads to my opponents?
19:30:15  <yorick> no
19:30:18  <yorick> not (yet)
19:30:26  * Pinchiukas has only played some railroad tycool 2 :)
19:30:32  <Pinchiukas> *tycoon
19:30:39  <yorick> a patch for doing that has been made, but is not in the trunk
19:30:46  <Pinchiukas> I see
19:30:55  <Pinchiukas> for some reason the game seems pretty popular :)
19:31:09  <Belugas> not for "some"
19:31:09  <yorick> for the technical details about MP, there is an (outdated) wiki page
19:31:11  <Belugas> for GOOD
19:31:16  <Belugas> reasons
19:31:26  <Pinchiukas> like what? :)
19:31:35  <yorick> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Network_Protocol
19:32:39  <Belugas> 'cause it's good, and it looks good, and it plays good, and it's good'ly coded, and it's good to watch, and it has all those good new features...
19:32:43  <Belugas> ZOMG!!
19:32:51  <Belugas> FEATURES !!!!
19:33:28  <orudge> Belugas has gone all weird!
19:33:29  <Patrick`> mmm
19:33:37  * orudge calls for a man in a white coat
19:33:53  <Patrick`> I always read him as beluga
19:34:00  <Patrick`> as in the ship from BGE
19:34:11  <Pinchiukas> "looks good"? :/
19:36:16  <Belugas> weird? me?  naaaaaa...
19:37:07  <Belugas> [15:34] <Pinchiukas> "looks good"? :/  <--- right... i should have said TASTES good instead :S
19:39:19  <Pinchiukas> ok, off to watch some google tech talks :P
19:41:44  <yorick> if (info->server_lang >= NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES)  info->server_lang = 0;, so I've done NETWORK_NUM_LANGUAGES         =   36,
19:41:49  <yorick> but it still fails to work
19:45:00  <yorick> http://paste.openttd.org/1034
19:45:13  <yorick> the GetCurrentIsoCode should be removed
19:45:25  <yorick> but bugfixing comes first
19:47:11  <Belugas> ho... my eyes hurts...
19:47:12  <Belugas> -s
19:47:23  *** Pinchiukas [~lox@62.212.218.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47:52  * yorick is proud of hurting eyes, because his eyes got hurt with that toyland
19:47:57  <Belugas> iso_codes is not aligned
19:48:20  *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
19:48:21  <Belugas> -> // Draw flags  ->>  /* Draw flags */
19:48:26  <Draakon> hello
19:48:32  <Belugas> #
19:48:32  <yorick> that was a copy-paste
19:48:32  <Belugas> +VARDEF uint8 _network_current_networklang;  // The current language for the network to be shown in the client list
19:48:42  <Belugas> should be ///<
19:48:49  <yorick> oki
19:48:54  <Belugas> that was not an excuse
19:49:02  <Belugas> #
19:49:02  <Belugas> +/* Send the changed language over the network */
19:49:06  <Belugas> should be
19:49:17  <Belugas> +/** Send the changed language over the network */
19:49:21  *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:49:26  *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd
19:49:49  <Belugas> const char *GetCurrentIsoCode() should be documented
19:50:08  <yorick> as I said, it should be removed
19:50:12  <yorick> ^^
19:50:18  * Belugas nods
19:50:29  <ln> Belugas: and the documentation would be approximately "returns the current iso code"?
19:50:34  <yorick> [20:45] <yorick> the GetCurrentIsoCode should be removed
19:50:34  <yorick> [20:45] <yorick> but bugfixing comes first
19:50:41  <yorick> true ^^
19:50:48  <ln> why should it be removed?
19:50:57  <yorick> because it's not used anymore
19:51:12  <yorick> I replaced it by the grf_isocode table
19:51:13  <Belugas> i say, whatever you propose so someone else, add comments for the others not to spend time guessing
19:51:16  <Belugas> i say
19:51:44  <yorick> and I say, I just say that that function was still in there, and it should be removed
19:51:52  <yorick> saw*
19:52:11  <yorick> but well, when was the previous flag-adding commit
19:52:13  *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
19:52:18  <yorick> as I can't find it
19:52:58  *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org]
19:53:56  <Draakon> *yawns*
19:54:37  <yorick> as I can't find it out with svn log, because someone *cough* split network.h
19:55:24  <yorick> there
19:55:28  <peter1138> What?
19:55:33  <yorick> 10017
19:55:39  <peter1138> Splitting a file does not remove history.
19:55:51  <yorick> I found out
19:57:15  <Belugas> svn blame is really usefull too...
20:02:25  <yorick> @calc 36-29
20:02:25  <DorpsGek> yorick: 7
20:02:30  <yorick> 7 :o
20:02:51  <yorick> is me sure?
20:03:02  <Bjarni> lol
20:03:20  <Draakon> @seen dih*
20:03:20  <DorpsGek> Draakon: dih* could be dih (1 hour, 28 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), dih_ (3 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), dihedral (8 weeks, 3 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dihedral_ (17 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), dihedral|work (19 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), dihedral|lunch (19 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 44 seconds (1 more message)
20:03:26  <Bjarni> (36+1)-(29+1) = 37 - 30 = 7
20:03:34  * yorick thought he only added 6 sprites
20:03:51  <yorick> @more
20:03:51  <DorpsGek> yorick: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more.  To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
20:03:58  <yorick> @more Draakon
20:03:58  <DorpsGek> yorick: ago), dihedral|afk (19 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes, and 52 seconds ago), dihedral|away (20 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting (25 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 40 seconds ago), or dihedral|laptop (37 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 5 minutes, and 22 seconds ago)
20:03:59  <Bjarni> @less
20:04:04  <Draakon> lol
20:04:24  <yorick> dih* has many kinds
20:04:29  <yorick> @seen Yorick*
20:04:29  <DorpsGek> yorick: Yorick* could be yorick (4 seconds ago), yorickSatan (6 days, 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 42 seconds ago), Yorick|AFK (1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 44 minutes, and 50 seconds ago), or Yorick[1] (7 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 25 seconds ago)
20:04:41  <Draakon> yoricksatan xD
20:04:50  <yorick> that wasn't me
20:04:56  <Draakon> was
20:05:00  <Bjarni> it was your evil twin
20:05:11  <Bjarni> but we can't tell the difference
20:05:20  <Bjarni> so who knows who we end up burning
20:05:38  <Draakon> hmm
20:05:45  <Draakon> let me test something
20:05:48  <Draakon> @seen yorick
20:05:49  <DorpsGek> Draakon: yorick was last seen in #openttd 58 seconds ago: <yorick> that wasn't me
20:05:53  <Draakon> lol
20:07:07  <Draakon> @seen me
20:07:08  <DorpsGek> Draakon: I have not seen me.
20:07:19  <yorick> @seen openttd
20:07:19  <DorpsGek> yorick: I have not seen openttd.
20:07:30  <yorick> there was someone called that way
20:07:48  <Draakon> @seen dropsgek
20:07:48  <DorpsGek> Draakon: I have not seen dropsgek.
20:07:55  <Draakon> wow
20:08:03  <Draakon> ups
20:08:04  <Draakon> typo
20:09:45  <ln> is it currently possible add a new feature to OTTD without rewriting half of the game?
20:09:50  <yorick> yes
20:10:01  <ln> yorick: you are not qualified to answer.
20:10:25  <yorick> yes, thanks
20:10:32  <peter1138> Yes.
20:11:48  <Bjarni> ln: that depends on what feature you want but generally yes
20:12:39  <ln> is it possible to e.g. attach a 4-byte integer to each tile without breaking everything?
20:12:46  <ln> err.. 4-bit i meant.
20:13:11  <yorick> yes
20:13:18  <yorick> probably
20:13:26  <Patrick`> yes.
20:13:26  <yorick> but why do you want such a thing?
20:13:27  <ln> 22:10 < ln> yorick: you are not qualified to answer.
20:13:35  <yorick> bytes enough on the map array ^^
20:13:36  <Draakon> shh!
20:13:37  <Patrick`> it'll break saves, it'll break networks and everything
20:13:41  <Patrick`> but as a branch it'll survive.
20:13:43  <Bjarni> ln: that's not even hard but why? :)
20:13:59  <Patrick`> I guess to add more map info per tile
20:14:06  <Patrick`> like, say, for heterogenous diagonal rails
20:14:13  <ln> yorick: i want a public telephone box on each tile, and a telephone needs a number.
20:14:16  <Bjarni> but what should be stored
20:14:27  <glx> Patrick`: there are enough free bits for that
20:14:27  <yorick> ah
20:14:35  <Belugas> 4 bits ??
20:14:50  <Belugas> 8 i would understand, but 4...
20:15:06  <yorick> 0-16 ?!
20:15:15  <Bjarni> ln: seriously what are you trying to store?
20:15:18  <glx> ln: use the TileIndex ;)
20:15:43  <dih> Whatsup ladies?
20:15:58  <ln> Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD".
20:15:59  <yorick> hello dih
20:16:01  <Bjarni> not your language skills :P
20:16:02  <ln> (that was a hint)
20:16:10  <Draakon> dih: when did you come online?
20:16:15  <Draakon> ups
20:16:21  <Draakon> forgot one thing'
20:16:26  <yorick> loong time ago
20:16:26  <Draakon> hello dih
20:16:33  <dih> look at my whois?
20:16:43  <yorick> not in there ;)
20:16:50  <Bjarni> ln: ahh.... I didn't know that you would actually do it. Besides I have been really busy lately
20:17:05  <dih> yorick: tis
20:17:15  <dih> [21:16]  * [dih] idle 00:00:42, signon: Tue Mar 11 20:35:19
20:17:18  <yorick> I stilll don't know where the whole countries is about
20:17:23  <yorick> nope...
20:17:36  <dih> say that again
20:17:36  <yorick> only for self ;)
20:17:41  <ln> Bjarni: i'm gathering information to be able to decide whether it's doable without an insane amount of work.
20:17:55  <Patrick`> now, I remember when bigmaps were first introduced
20:17:56  <dih> how about /msg info dih
20:18:00  <Belugas> ln, sorry, but... phone box is one thing, but countries?  should not be requiring bits on the map
20:18:03  <Patrick`> and at one point the max map size was 4096 square
20:18:04  <Bjarni> would 4 bits be enough?
20:18:11  <yorick> info no such nick/channel
20:18:12  <Bjarni> imagine the Europe map
20:18:25  <yorick> 16 countries
20:18:32  <Patrick`> so I propose that the map size should not be limited to 2048 in each direction, but instead limited to 2048 ** 2 tiles
20:18:34  <dih> yorick: looser ^^
20:18:40  <Patrick`> so you could have an 8192 x 512 map :)
20:18:46  <ln> Belugas: well yes, countries could be stored to some other structure.
20:18:46  <Belugas> proposal rejected
20:18:51  <Patrick`> aww :(
20:18:53  <Belugas> indeed ln,
20:18:55  <Patrick`> it'd be trivial to code though
20:19:01  <Patrick`> to the branchmobile!
20:19:24  <Bjarni> <yorick> 16 countries <-- I know what 2^4 is but the question is if it's enough
20:19:26  <Belugas> it's the only sane way to go, i think
20:19:42  <Belugas> but, to be honest, i don't like at all the whole country idea
20:19:42  <ln> 22:18 <@Bjarni> imagine the Europe map  <-- "i thought Europe is a country!"
20:19:48  <Bjarni> :D
20:19:59  <Draakon> lol
20:19:59  <yorick> me neither
20:20:11  <Draakon> Europe is a part of the world
20:20:21  <yorick> a very cooperative one
20:20:31  <Belugas> if ever the map should be divided, it wold make way more sens to have geological regions, or economical ones
20:20:36  <yorick> we wouldn't be here speaking english otherwise ^^
20:20:47  <Draakon> we would
20:21:01  <Bjarni> ln: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o31GDLgDyD0 <-- you are thinking of this one, right?
20:21:10  * Belugas puts on ignore list both draakon and yorick
20:21:12  *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
20:21:12  <ln> btw, btw, it's still not technically possible to have all three types of climates in one map?
20:21:24  <yorick> :(
20:21:27  <Draakon> why Belugas?
20:21:30  <ln> Bjarni: exactly that one.
20:21:35  <yorick> I don't believe him
20:21:54  <Belugas> as i explained earlier, yes it can be done, but to a big extend
20:22:11  <Belugas> lot of work, in fact
20:22:20  <Belugas> if it has to be done properly
20:22:39  <ln> (are you answering to me?)
20:22:44  <Belugas> yes
20:22:46  <ln> cool
20:23:11  <Belugas> as the others who might have slipped usual non sens comments are now on ignore
20:23:29  * Draakon ignores everyonre
20:23:29  <ln> it's just that all climates on one map would make sense.
20:23:34  <Draakon> everyone*
20:23:40  * Belugas does not agree
20:23:52  <yorick> does your igore list work with hostmasks?
20:24:00  <Draakon> mine?
20:24:08  <yorick> no, Belugas's
20:24:17  <ln> Belugas: why not?
20:24:47  <Belugas> the thing is, it might make sens visually on big maps, but as the map size is getting smaller, it will look silly for once
20:25:08  <Belugas> second, the chain of production as it is will be useless
20:25:23  *** paulsen [~paulsen@77.222.191.52] has quit []
20:25:24  <Draakon> you only add tiles
20:25:34  <Belugas> since all industries are connected in their own world
20:25:34  <yorick> hmm...it finally works!
20:25:34  <Belugas> if i may say so
20:25:39  <ln> ok, there could be some minimum distance between climates, so many wouldn't fit on a small map.
20:25:50  <Draakon> yorick: What? where who?
20:25:50  * Belugas nods
20:25:53  * yorick can see the South-African flag on the server-list!
20:26:04  <dih> nice
20:26:07  <Belugas> but technically, it wold be a huge task
20:26:07  <dih> join it
20:26:11  <Gonozal_VIII> http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/openttd/terrain.png
20:26:13  <Draakon> picture or this dint happen
20:27:04  *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:27:21  <dih> i have seen that before Gozy
20:27:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, i posted it here before...
20:28:05  <Gonozal_VIII> but since the climate on same map topic came up
20:28:11  <Gonozal_VIII> ...
20:28:16  *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]]
20:28:19  <ln> i just noticed my working copy of openttd has my previous attempt to introduce a new symbol into station signs, the tram stop.
20:28:21  <dih> get yourself a highlight for gozy
20:28:27  <dih> think i might stick to that
20:28:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think so polly :P
20:28:58  *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
20:29:01  <dih> lol
20:29:16  <yorick> nathanael, it was?
20:29:58  <dih> well done for looking up a whois on a domain name
20:30:13  <yorick> http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs225&d=08115&f=screenshot_3468.png
20:30:20  <yorick> actually, I remembered
20:30:34  <dih> that img host sucks
20:30:46  <Gonozal_VIII> what img host?
20:31:09  <dih> that xs.to
20:31:18  <yorick> hmm...now I can blame myself for clicking cancel on a screenshot and trying to fix a bug because it freezed ^^
20:31:28  *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:31:42  <Gonozal_VIII> ah... i ignored that link since it came from yorick
20:31:50  <dih> hehehe
20:31:51  <yorick> but its a good one
20:31:55  <Gonozal_VIII> i figured it would just be the same flag stuff again
20:32:02  *** Pinchiukas [~lox@62.212.218.187] has joined #openttd
20:32:08  <yorick> its another flag stuff ^^
20:32:10  <dih> but actually for a 13 year old yorick is not doing bad, in regards to at least writing his own little patches
20:32:26  <yorick> LordAzamath was nice enough to draw me some flags
20:32:37  <yorick> ^^
20:33:16  <dih> LA does a lot of stuff if you ask him kindly :-)
20:33:26  <dih> he made me a flag too
20:33:27  <Gonozal_VIII> afrikaans... where is that spoken? africa has plenty of languages...
20:33:35  <dih> south
20:33:36  <yorick> South-Africa?
20:33:47  <ln> there
20:33:49  <dih> beautiful language
20:34:31  <yorick> it is a mix of english and 18th-century dutch
20:35:03  <Gonozal_VIII> and dutch is a mix of german and english...
20:35:10  <yorick> no its not
20:36:40  <Gonozal_VIII> german dialect then?
20:37:18  <dih> lol
20:39:29  <ln> danish dialect?
20:40:56  *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-79-110.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
20:41:22  <TheJosh> good morning everyone long time no see
20:41:58  <yorick> good evening TheJosh never no nee
20:42:08  <yorick> see*
20:42:16  <dih> you blind?
20:42:42  <yorick> I don't look at the client list
20:43:02  <TheJosh> I havent been around for a while, and im back
20:43:21  *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit:  And I go]
20:43:57  <TheJosh> quick question, is the trunk going to be frozen any time soon?
20:44:14  <Gonozal_VIII> why would that happen?
20:44:20  <ln> where are the tiles drawn?
20:44:23  <TheJosh> 0.6.0
20:44:52  <Belugas> it is frozen (feature wise) as we speak,
20:44:59  <Belugas> but would not be for long
20:45:22  *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F54C8E.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:45:28  *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:45:55  <TheJosh> ok. so when will it be de-frozen? basically to get to the point, i would like to rewrite shares, and I would do it in a number of patches, with the first being a new GUI seperate from the company details GUI
20:46:36  *** roadfish [~user@ip-66-203-169-11.ac1.golden.net] has joined #openttd
20:47:39  <dih> then write it
20:47:43  <dih> :-)
20:48:02  <TheJosh> duh but if the trunk is feature frozen then it wont get in for ages
20:48:12  <roadfish> at talk:Village Pump, I read about a "Offline Wiki" that can be downloaded ... where is download located?
20:48:13  <dih> no
20:48:25  <dih> that is a completetly different thing
20:48:37  <dih> you writing a patch and it getting in to trunk are separate things
20:48:44  <Belugas> trunk is frozen 'cause of release of 0.6
20:48:56  <Belugas> it's going to be unfrozen after ward
20:49:03  <Belugas> release is imminent
20:49:07  <TheJosh> i know
20:50:04  <TheJosh> so theres no point me writing a patch until its defrozen
20:50:11  <glx> why?
20:50:13  <TheJosh> or i will be waiting for ages to get it in
20:50:18  <Belugas> well.. you would be pretty fast...
20:50:34  <dih> thejosh - wrong approatch
20:50:39  <TheJosh> ok ill write now
20:50:44  <dih> :-)
20:50:50  <Belugas> writing a patch and getting it into trunk are totally not related in anyways
20:50:57  <roadfish> #join /wiki
20:50:58  <dih> at least then you also have time to introduce it on the forums and get feedback :-)
20:51:08  <TheJosh> good point
20:51:16  <dih> remember bugs
20:51:24  <dih> they are never intended, but always present
20:51:40  <peter1138> Except rivers ;)
20:51:50  <roadfish> wiki
20:52:00  <dih> :-P
20:52:10  <dih> true
20:52:17  <dih> rivers are not always present ^^
20:52:18  *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
20:52:41  <TheJosh> So is a new shares system a desirable feature?
20:53:04  <dih> what you want to achieve?
20:53:23  <Belugas> objectives?  why is it required?  What was the problems with the old one?
20:53:34  <Belugas> who required it?
20:53:37  <Belugas> whne?
20:53:39  <TheJosh> 1. New GUI - a seperate window listing all the companies and how much of the actual company they own
20:53:39  <Belugas> where?
20:53:42  <peter1138> Well the shares cheat is a good reason to revamp it ;)
20:54:09  <TheJosh> 2. Shares not stored as percentages but as numbers (20,000 total per company for example)
20:54:10  <peter1138> But these things need stating...
20:54:22  <TheJosh> 3. Proper calculation of the share price
20:54:30  <TheJosh> they are the patches
20:54:38  <TheJosh> the reason - because of the cheat basically
20:54:52  <TheJosh> and theres a feature request for better shares
20:54:55  *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
20:55:09  <peter1138> Who owns the shares by default?
20:55:25  <TheJosh> 100% owned by the company itself to begin with
20:55:28  <peter1138> Quite.
20:55:37  <peter1138> The current method makes no sense there...
20:56:00  <TheJosh> the first patch will be just the gui. the specifics of how shares will work will come in the later patches
20:56:06  <peter1138> I'm for it as long as it still remains simple.
20:56:22  <peter1138> Oh, and maybe toggleable.
20:56:31  <TheJosh> alright
20:56:33  *** roadfish [~user@ip-66-203-169-11.ac1.golden.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.4 (IRC client for Emacs)]
20:56:40  *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:51  <TheJosh> i may even leave the buy-by-percentage and just have good share price calculations
20:57:19  <peter1138> Well the old system is already turn on-and-off-able.
20:57:29  <Belugas> 1. New GUI - a seperate window listing all the companies and how much of the actual company they own   <--- i'm a bit confused
20:57:53  <peter1138> I don't think it needs a new GUI. Just extend the existing bit.
20:58:03  * peter1138 "accidentally" opens a b eer.
20:58:12  <Belugas> a list of all the companies, and with the amount of shares the current company has in each of them?
20:58:21  <TheJosh> no
20:58:23  <Belugas> hoooo... beer
20:58:36  <TheJosh> currently is says on the company details page, 25% owned by ...
20:58:55  <TheJosh> and it will show upto 2 companies, when in fact 3 can own 25% each - thats a bug
20:59:36  <TheJosh> instead there needs to be a full list of all the owners of a company - so the company details window needs to be bigger, or just a new 'ownership details' window
20:59:49  <TheJosh> listing all the owners of a company, and how much they own
21:00:15  <Noldo> btw what is the point of owning part of a company?
21:00:38  <peter1138> TheJosh, simple enough to make it dynamically sized now, so each owner adds a new line.
21:00:49  <peter1138> That would keep it simple but able to show enough info.
21:00:57  <peter1138> (And adding a new GUI always makes patches massive)
21:02:16  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I'm getting too technical already ;)
21:02:24  *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
21:02:42  <TheJosh> ok you make a good point
21:02:45  <peter1138> Noldo, if it's done properly, you should be able to get a share of the profits.
21:03:03  <TheJosh> currently its just a way to cheat basically
21:03:33  <peter1138> So the question is, why sell off any of your company if you may lose profits?
21:03:44  <peter1138> (Maybe you need the up-front cash?)
21:04:04  <Noldo> that would be the reason why real companies do it
21:04:08  <Noldo> to get capital
21:04:56  <Noldo> it's basically just another kind of loan
21:05:06  <peter1138> Currently the first company able to buys up 75% of the other companies.
21:05:13  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think dividends should be paid
21:05:38  <peter1138> But then they never sell because the other companies either go bust (and the purchaser's lost ) or continue making profit and there's no real point in selling...
21:06:01  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, what other incentives are there?
21:06:09  <Gonozal_VIII> value increase
21:06:36  <Noldo> somewhat irrelevat to the concrete gameplay
21:06:51  <Noldo> +n somewhere
21:07:01  <TheJosh> it should be done well or removed I think
21:07:14  <TheJosh> kinda pointless and switched off on tons of servers now
21:07:25  <Belugas> And would the real cash in hand be used as a measure?  or would it be the money plus the assets?
21:07:31  *** peter1138 is now known as not_peter1138
21:08:02  <Gonozal_VIII> could create a loop
21:08:20  <not_peter1138> not_not_peter1138?
21:08:44  <Belugas> not not makes it true
21:09:16  <Noldo> I wish I knew these accounting terms in english
21:09:46  *** not_peter1138 is now known as peter1138
21:10:06  <Gonozal_VIII> calculating of company values including shares should be possible with equations
21:10:16  *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
21:10:24  <Gonozal_VIII> without creating a loop
21:10:30  <TheJosh> share price is more than just company value.
21:10:35  <peter1138> current system is silly as you don't own your own company
21:10:36  <Noldo> yes, but it has some quite interesting effets
21:10:42  <peter1138> so...
21:10:47  <Noldo> peter1138: but who is you?
21:10:52  <hylje> i prefer AC
21:11:29  <peter1138> Noldo: as a 'client' of the 'company' you get full control, therefore you are acting on behalf of the mysterious 'owner'
21:11:30  <Gonozal_VIII> you should definitely get the money if somebody buys your shares
21:11:43  <TheJosh> share price is what someone is willing to pay for your company. doing it that detailed would be too complicated, so you would probably make share price = total value of assets / number of shares in existance
21:12:03  <Noldo> peter1138: similar to railroad tycoon II ?
21:12:14  <peter1138> Noldo: never played it beyond building a train.
21:12:17  <Gonozal_VIII> peter, you start with zero capital only loan, so you are the owner
21:14:15  <peter1138> So basically we're saying that TheJosh should just get on with it? ;)
21:15:00  <Noldo> I'm not convinced that the shares add anything to the game, if you don't count the buyout option
21:15:23  *** Pinchiukas [~lox@62.212.218.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:15:25  <Belugas> well... there has been a lot of talks on badly current system is... so if anyone is willing to work on it, it wold be very intersting to look at the work that willbe done
21:15:32  <Belugas> i'd say yes
21:15:58  <TheJosh> "i'd say yes" - yes to what?
21:16:51  <Belugas> [17:14] <@peter1138> So basically we're saying that TheJosh should just get on with it? ;)
21:16:52  <Belugas> that
21:17:21  * Belugas is tired
21:17:22  *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
21:17:42  * Belugas goes to home
21:17:44  *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
21:17:45  <Belugas> night all
21:17:49  <Gonozal_VIII> night
21:17:54  <TheJosh> once i get my newly-installed debian system setup for development I will start
21:17:54  <peter1138> Noldo: subsidaries and buyouts! in MP games!
21:18:28  *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18:35  <TheJosh> i had to wipe because of a hdd crash and now i have forgotten how to get gcc to work :(
21:19:01  <Tefad> "gcc" done?
21:19:03  <Tefad> : x
21:19:37  <TheJosh> i think i have found the package I need
21:19:38  <peter1138> libsdl1.2-dev (or similar)
21:19:52  <TheJosh> nah ive got that. i just didnt have the right version of gcc
21:20:17  <Noldo> in case of buyout, what happens to the player that used to controll the company?
21:20:37  <Noldo> -l
21:21:00  <TheJosh> i havent thought any of this through. Im gonna go the GUI thing first - and that can be counted as a bugfix
21:21:04  <peter1138> 1) it has to be agreed, no forced buyouts
21:21:24  <TheJosh> i agree
21:21:39  <peter1138> 2) player could just be switched to the buying company, or become a spectator.
21:21:51  <TheJosh> window popup: <player> has requested to buy you out
21:22:21  <Noldo> so no hostile takeovers then ;)
21:22:58  <dih> ^^
21:23:17  <dih> how a bout a lend money system
21:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause3>  <ln> Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD". <- but why do you want to store country in the map? wouldn't it make more sense to e.g. group some towns into a country, and then decide "country authority" by nearest town authority?
21:25:43  *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:26:10  <TheJosh> does anyone here run debian because i cannot get openttd to configure
21:27:01  <TheJosh> ive installed 'gcc', 'gcc-3.4', 'gcc-4.1' and 'g++-3.4'
21:27:02  <peter1138> What does it say? heh
21:27:21  <TheJosh> checking build c++... g++ not found
21:27:21  <TheJosh> I couldn't detect any g++ binary on your system
21:27:21  <TheJosh> please define the CC/CXX environment to where it is located
21:27:24  <peter1138> Get rid of 3.4, install g++-4.1
21:27:31  <TheJosh> there inst one
21:27:56  <peter1138> also make sure libc6-dev is installed.
21:28:27  *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DA0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
21:29:11  <TheJosh> i found g++-4.1 sweet
21:29:32  <peter1138> Oh, are you using a gui to install packages? Heh
21:29:58  *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N891P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30:55  <TheJosh> on all my srevers i use command-line, but for my personal computer I just cannot be bothered
21:31:17  <TheJosh> although i still use the command-line a fair bit more than average
21:31:50  <peter1138> I just find aptitude/synaptic way slower to use than apt.
21:33:54  *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:59  <TheJosh> your a debian user?
21:34:19  <peter1138> On servers, Ubuntu on my desktop.
21:34:39  <TheJosh> gentoo on my servers, debian on the desktop
21:34:42  <hylje> (desktop debian sucks implied)
21:35:06  <TheJosh> and a slackware server at my church
21:35:07  <peter1138> Gentoo... on servers... :o
21:35:22  <TheJosh> its tweakable
21:35:35  <peter1138> My servers get installed, set up, and left.
21:35:42  <TheJosh> its only my one server so i really dont care
21:35:48  <peter1138> Ah.
21:36:04  <TheJosh> i should say this. debian on my box, gentoo on my server, and slack on the server at my church
21:36:27  <peter1138> Well, nice bit of variety, heh
21:36:34  <TheJosh> slack uptime = 310 days :)
21:36:44  <peter1138> Not much then.
21:37:14  <TheJosh> im happy with it
21:37:21  <TheJosh> for what it is
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21:51:07  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause3>  <ln> Bjarni: ah, you haven't been here any of the times when i've said: "how about introducing the concept of countries into OTTD". <- but why do you want to store country in the map? wouldn't it make more sense to e.g. group some towns into a country, and then decide "country authority" by nearest town authority? <-- that depends on how often this info is needed and hence how fast we need to be able to read this i
21:51:07  <Bjarni> nfo
21:51:41  <peter1138> Are you unable to write replies without quoting the whole line?
21:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> i quoted the line because it was written an hour ago
21:53:42  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.172.253] has joined #openttd
21:54:14  <peter1138> You didn't over-quote ;)
21:54:27  *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493CFE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:55:13  <Prof_Frink> "'`over-quote`'"?
21:55:25  <peter1138> Hmm, drive-through road stops do need improving.
21:56:24  *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-98-200-106-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
21:56:35  <Bjarni> well
21:56:48  <Bjarni> it's not like I interrupted anything
21:57:05  *** josch [~josch@p57AD7C55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:57:12  <josch> woohooo!! openttd!!!!
21:57:23  <josch> hello there!
21:57:36  <Wolf01> no, wrong chat, bye
21:57:38  <Wolf01> :P
21:57:50  <josch> is there a way to support the project by buying the official transport tycoon from you?
21:58:20  <Wolf01> no, but you can always donate
21:58:47  <TheJosh> hey i just realised one of my patches was partially applied
21:58:57  <josch> i have to buy ttd - is there a preferred webshop for this?
21:59:04  <TheJosh> a fix that would show the owners of a company properly
21:59:06  <TheJosh> sweet
21:59:07  <Wolf01> I should do it, I promised, but I still don't have the prepaid card to be able to purchase via internet :/
21:59:44  <ln> josch: try amazon.co.uk
21:59:48  <Wolf01> josch, ebay, or if you are lucky, a local store warestock... or some sites
21:59:54  <josch> okay - so the usual way...
22:00:30  <Wolf01> or simply download it
22:00:32  <josch> well I thought that maybe you guys have something like: buy here and we get something from your payment
22:00:56  <josch> lol download? isn't ttd still illegal to download?
22:01:23  <peter1138> Yes.
22:01:53  *** Zr40_ [~zr40@82-168-238-114.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
22:01:54  <Prof_Frink> the first rule of ttd-downloaders club...
22:02:20  <josch> never tell anyone about the ttd-downloaders club?
22:03:38  <Prof_Frink> The second rule of Robot Club is: You do not talk about- no wait, I got that wrong.
22:03:45  <josch> hrhr
22:03:46  <Prof_Frink> The second rule is "No Smoking."
22:04:27  <peter1138> # What do you do? What do you do, in the bath?
22:07:31  <josch> hrm... to whom should I donate my last euros on paypal? wikipedia or openttd?
22:07:59  <peter1138> tt-forums!
22:08:03  *** Zr40 [~zr40@82-168-238-114.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:00  <Prof_Frink> josch: The Prof_Frink Beer Fund
22:14:52  <josch> i have to meditate about this decision...
22:22:37  *** Munchlax [~root@cpe-76-175-221-148.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
22:22:59  <Munchlax> hi people
22:23:31  <Bjarni> hey
22:23:31  <Patrick`> there's a ship called the pearl necklace
22:23:35  <Bjarni> this channel is mine
22:23:40  <Bjarni> so it's my people
22:23:50  <Bjarni> you shouldn't try to steal them >_<
22:24:02  <peter1138> Have we been announced somewhere? Seems quite an influx this evening...
22:24:40  <Bjarni> good question
22:24:50  <Munchlax> ok
22:25:02  *** Zr40_ is now known as Zr40
22:25:48  *** Munchlax [~root@cpe-76-175-221-148.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
22:25:58  *** Munchlax [~Math02003@cpe-76-175-221-148.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
22:26:29  <Bjarni> hi Munchlax
22:26:33  <Munchlax> hi
22:26:36  <Bjarni> haven't I seen you before?
22:26:41  <Bjarni> you sound familiar somehow
22:26:41  <Munchlax> no...?
22:26:44  *** jm [~jm@66.211.107.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:26:48  <Munchlax> hm
22:26:51  <Munchlax> well
22:27:02  <Munchlax> this is my first time comming to this server and this channel
22:27:16  <TheJosh> welcome
22:27:16  <Bjarni> technically it's your 2nd time right now :P
22:27:27  <Munchlax> oh
22:27:28  <Munchlax> yeah..
22:27:39  <Munchlax> i was on with my ipod..
22:27:48  <Bjarni> ...
22:27:54  <Bjarni> you got IRC on your iPod???
22:27:57  <Munchlax> yes
22:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> your ipod runs as root?
22:28:07  <Munchlax> there is openttd on ipod
22:28:17  <Bjarni> oh right
22:28:17  <Munchlax> so thats how I got to know
22:28:20  <Bjarni> iPod touch
22:28:24  <Munchlax> yeah.
22:28:29  <Munchlax> Jailbroken
22:28:38  <Munchlax> or you could go on IRC with safari
22:28:42  <Bjarni> we didn't make that port
22:28:42  <josch> there ist also openttd on neo1973 with openmoko - works great! :-D
22:28:56  <Munchlax> hmn
22:28:58  <Munchlax> well
22:29:08  <Munchlax> I dont think you guys did
22:29:09  <Bjarni> but it's based on our source code
22:29:11  <Munchlax> zodttd
22:29:12  <Munchlax> whatever..
22:29:27  <Patrick`> oh, the fork from the forking eejits
22:29:37  <Patrick`> who didn't honour the GPL for like 3 months
22:29:49  <Munchlax> ?
22:30:07  <Patrick`> the openttd fork for handhelds
22:30:13  <Munchlax> who
22:30:20  <Patrick`> iuno
22:30:26  <Munchlax> lol
22:30:26  <Patrick`> I just remember this fuss a few years back
22:30:35  <Munchlax> well.
22:30:39  <Munchlax> i dont know who it is
22:30:39  <Munchlax> :)
22:30:43  <Bjarni> I'm not sure the iPod touch port is made by those people. I think it's a new person/group who is/are behind it
22:30:48  <Bjarni> but I'm not sure
22:31:05  <Munchlax> oh
22:31:07  <Munchlax> still
22:31:09  <kaan> night all
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22:31:11  <Munchlax> i can play that..
22:31:22  <Munchlax> do I have to take picture of it
22:31:25  <Bjarni> you can play OpenTTD which is the important part
22:31:26  <Munchlax> :D
22:31:32  <Munchlax> yesw
22:31:34  <Munchlax> i have one
22:32:12  <Munchlax> oww!! I gotta figure out how to play this game!
22:32:16  <Munchlax> it seems fun
22:34:06  <Bjarni> I once heard this one: "I tried to build a rail line and added a train. When it made income I made a new line and built a new train. That one started to make income too and then I figured that I had tried everything in the game so I ditched it because it wasn't my type of game. Too much of the same stuff over and over"
22:34:09  <Bjarni> or something like that
22:34:28  <Bjarni> this is what NOT to say ;)
22:34:36  <Munchlax> ok..
22:34:40  <Munchlax> ?
22:34:44  <Munchlax> i wouldnt say that
22:35:03  <Munchlax> what is this whole purpose of playing this game
22:35:27  <Prof_Frink> killing time
22:35:36  <Bjarni> it would be like playing Doom and say "now I figured out how to move forward and backwards so I did that a bit and ended up finding it boring so I quitted"
22:35:41  *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E0B.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:35:41  <Prof_Frink> which it does *very* effectively
22:35:59  <Bjarni> <Munchlax> what is this whole purpose of playing this game <-- to make money
22:36:06  <SmatZ> :-D
22:36:11  <Prof_Frink> "Hmm, a new line here, some buses here, ooh, it's 2AM"
22:36:12  <SmatZ> to have fun
22:36:17  <Munchlax> :D
22:36:19  <Munchlax> I mean..
22:36:34  <Munchlax> i tried stuff on this 'small' ipod
22:36:37  <Munchlax> and I dont know
22:36:42  <Munchlax> how to transport stuff
22:37:02  <SmatZ> :-D
22:37:20  <Bjarni> hehe
22:37:48  <Bjarni> first you switch to a resolution as big as possible because you can see shit on that small display
22:38:04  <Bjarni> maybe it would be adviceable to start on a real computer so it's easier to read the text and so on
22:38:12  <Munchlax> yeah
22:38:16  <Munchlax> :)
22:38:21  <Munchlax> server..?
22:38:26  <Munchlax> do you play this online too?
22:38:29  * peter1138 plays at 640x480 :o
22:38:35  <peter1138> Yes
22:38:45  * peter1138 is playing 'against' Sacro
22:39:00  <Munchlax> thats cool
22:39:04  <Sacro> hmm
22:39:06  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: old school
22:39:31  <Munchlax> is it full screen
22:39:32  <Munchlax> ?
22:40:26  <Bjarni> on a computer it supports both fullscreen and window modes
22:40:40  <Munchlax> cool
22:40:43  <Munchlax> and it says
22:40:49  <Munchlax> sample.cat is missing
22:40:52  <Munchlax> on data folder
22:40:59  <Bjarni> rtfm
22:41:03  <Bjarni> you have to add that yourself
22:41:06  <Bjarni> as it's copyrighted
22:41:12  <Bjarni> we can't distribute that one
22:41:27  <Munchlax> ohhh
22:41:46  *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-128-245.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
22:41:47  <Slowpoke_> but you find it using google ;)
22:42:00  <Munchlax> lol
22:42:09  *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
22:42:34  <Bjarni> o_O
22:42:40  <Bjarni> now you summoned lolman
22:42:47  <Munchlax> -_-
22:42:54  <Slowpoke_> :D
22:43:11  <lolman> :o
22:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Bjarni> [...] it's a new person/group who is/are behind it <- group is also singular
22:43:41  <Munchlax> like right after i said lol
22:43:45  <Munchlax> he was summoned
22:44:01  <lolman> For I am the great lolman
22:44:13  *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
22:44:23  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: ...
22:44:28  <Bjarni> time for bed
22:44:31  <Bjarni> goodnight
22:44:33  *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c2b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:44:37  <Slowpoke_> TTD is now abandonware?
22:44:47  <peter1138> Bzzt.
22:44:57  <Munchlax> i need to find that sample.cat thing
22:44:59  <Munchlax> :)
22:45:00  <peter1138> No such thing. Move along.
22:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> there is no such thing as abandonware
22:45:22  <lolman> Abandonware is a legal grey area
22:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> and sample.cat is in the same location as the trg*.grf
22:45:43  *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-24-98.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:46:03  <Tekky> yes, I am sure none of us have downloaded TTD from an abandonware site :)
22:46:03  <lolman> Copyright still applies bte there's noone to enforce it
22:46:03  <lolman> but*
22:47:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> which is not the case with TTD, so stop right there
22:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, stop three lines ago
22:47:52  <Slowpoke_> good night
22:47:57  *** Slowpoke_ [~Lobster@dslb-088-072-178-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:50:40  <Munchlax> yey
22:50:43  <Munchlax> I got it worked
22:51:38  <TheJosh> how do you resize a window?
22:51:42  <TheJosh> in code
22:52:05  <TheJosh> or is it easier to just make the window big enough to begin with
22:52:34  <Munchlax> um
22:52:37  <Munchlax> what is the patch for
22:53:04  <TheJosh> better shares
22:53:31  <TheJosh> im going to research the widget docs
22:53:51  <peter1138> TheJosh: ResizeWindowForWidget()
22:55:05  <peter1138> night
22:55:23  <TheJosh> night
22:55:23  <SmatZ> night peter1138
22:56:52  <Sacro> someone needs to fix this newgrf issue
22:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> *wave hand* this is not the issue that you seek
22:57:27  <Sacro> this is not...
22:57:30  <Sacro> yes it is
23:00:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:19:09  <Ammlller> hmm, orudge didn't change my name, was too less complicated, I fear. :-)
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23:26:14  <orudge> Ammler: you didn't ask, did you?
23:26:18  <orudge> or if so, I somehow missed it
23:26:24  <orudge> feel free to post in said topic
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23:46:20  <fjb> Hello
23:48:03  <SmatZ> hi fjb
23:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> "oh noes" ;)
23:48:25  <fjb> Oh, I'm not alone.
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23:53:19  <TheJosh> When I resize a window with ResizeWindowForWidget, it is leaving garbage from where the window was
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23:54:26  <TheJosh> ive tried calling RedrawScreenRect() but thats just segfaulting
23:55:52  <TheJosh> any ideas anyone?
23:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> MarkWholeScreenDirty() or something
23:55:59  <TheJosh> http://paste.openttd.org/1042
23:57:18  <TheJosh> sweet. thats not an expensive function is it?
23:58:05  <TheJosh> ah I only call it when the window actually needs resizing so it shouldnt be too bad. Thanks for the help