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00:00:46 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:02 *** welshdragon2 [~desktop@adsl-83-100-132-215.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:10:18 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@87.102.18.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:20 <Wolf01> 'night 00:10:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:19:35 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: latest project: javascript physics - http://204.11.32.106/~mortal/jsphysics/ http://204.11.32.106/websvn/wsvn/jsphysics/] 00:32:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B768B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:59 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon-pc 00:38:37 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:38:42 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 00:39:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:54 *** Nazcafan [~fou@laf31-4-82-236-42-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:58 <Nazcafan> hello 00:44:31 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:13 <Rubidium> 'lo 00:46:16 <Nazcafan> I am trying a recent build of openttd, but I get an error message at startup saying that come characters (maybe euro sign) might not be available with the current language setting 00:46:50 <Nazcafan> I checked the readme file, and I tried to add Sans as the font in my openttd.cfg file, but I get this error: 00:47:04 <Nazcafan> Unable to use 'Sans' for large font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead 00:50:06 <Nazcafan> is there something I misssed? 00:51:30 <Rubidium> looking at the error number tells me: "cannot open resource", i.e. it cannot find the font 00:53:25 <tokai> Don't you have to specify a .tff file? so /path/to/you/font.tff maybe? At least that's how it works here AFAIR. 00:53:42 <tokai> .ttf actually 00:56:34 *** welshdragon2 [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:56:34 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@adsl-83-100-132-215.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:58 <Nazcafan> mhh 01:02:09 <Nazcafan> tokai, Rubidium right, giving the font/path/...ttf works fine 01:02:14 <Nazcafan> thanks 01:05:31 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@82-171-144-153.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:00 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@82-171-144-153.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:13:57 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@82-171-144-153.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 01:14:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.170.152] has joined #openttd 01:18:32 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@82-171-144-153.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:21:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.175.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:07 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 01:33:20 <Antdovu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40391 01:33:43 <Antdovu> any suggestions how to do the old/new method separation in a reasonable way? 01:34:55 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@82-171-144-153.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 01:35:26 <benjamingoodger> erm 01:35:42 <benjamingoodger> I'm with commanderZ and yexo here 01:36:42 <benjamingoodger> it seems useful in theory, but not very much in practise 01:36:43 <benjamingoodger> I would, instead, have the clone button as a toggle, so it stays in clone mode once you have cloned a train 01:38:11 <Antdovu> the toggle part seems like a good idea 01:38:20 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:38:32 <Nazcafan> I don't like the idea of entering the number of clones 01:38:40 <Nazcafan> I mean, typing it 01:39:38 <Nazcafan> I use a french keyboard, and typing such number requires holding the shift key, i.e. leave the mouse 01:40:42 <benjamingoodger> surely you can hold shift with your left hand? 01:40:43 <Nazcafan> I wonder whether an interface that let the user set the number of clones, maybe with +/- buttons would be more efficient 01:40:59 <benjamingoodger> I can type shift-7 with one hand 01:41:12 <Nazcafan> benjamingoodger, I can, but it is not convenient 01:41:44 <Antdovu> do you really have to use 2 keys at once to type a number? :S 01:41:49 <benjamingoodger> I...see 01:41:57 <Nazcafan> benjamingoodger, I can, but it is not convenienti 01:42:01 <Nazcafan> argh 01:42:10 <Nazcafan> Antdovu, yes, I do 01:42:31 <Nazcafan> I couls also use the num-keypad, but it is not available on laptops 01:43:53 <Antdovu> the lack of one key numbers doesn't sound too convenient 01:47:04 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:15 <Antdovu> but any ideas how to make the old button act the same as it does now & at the same time give a prompt on a slightly different input sequence? 01:47:38 <Antdovu> ctrl+click & shift+click won't work 01:48:20 <Antdovu> and two buttons with the similar content length would be too large 01:54:54 <Nazcafan> what about a double click? 01:55:57 <welshdragon> Nazcafan, buy a usb numpad 01:57:48 *** welshdragon2 [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:58:41 <welshdragon> Nazcafan, http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=usb+keypad&x=0&y=0 02:00:01 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:46 <Antdovu> can you accurately detect a double click? 02:02:23 <Antdovu> for some reason I usually get 2 single clicks in row even if I have OnDoubleClick() defined 02:02:58 *** Nazcafan [~fou@laf31-4-82-236-42-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:03:21 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:04:16 <Antdovu> the only way OnDoubleClick() gets called is when the button is already down 02:06:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 02:06:19 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:14:24 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:21:58 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-93-183.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.170.152] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:13 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41672.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:43 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:50 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 03:50:21 *** Char2 [~Ich@d83-189-158-93.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:50:33 *** Char [~Ich@d83-189-158-93.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:01:53 *** benjamingoodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Cheese Error +++] 04:02:31 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180069136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:06:00 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:07:31 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:35 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:18:28 *** benjamingoodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:32:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:23:09 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 05:25:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:36 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 06:00:31 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 06:06:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:49 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 06:14:44 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 06:16:57 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-132.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has left #openttd [] 06:35:43 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:47 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:29 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28EAC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:58 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229112235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:15:53 *** rubyruy [~ruy@76-10-185-116.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 08:16:13 <rubyruy> so i finally figured out why i could only make a profit using mamoth trains running coal using the longest possible engine 08:16:35 <rubyruy> APPARENTLY the US Set has ridiculously high running costs and these are only adjustable by adjusting building cost 08:16:37 <rubyruy> why... is that? 08:23:52 <Rubidium> because you get the American model with it free of charge; the model where everything is extremely expensive and you have to take enormous debts to buy something useful. Otherwise, ask the authors of the set who are AFAIK not in this channel. 08:24:58 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-212.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:26:50 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:29:04 <rubyruy> i wish it WERE engine cost because as things stands you pay K for a locomotive that costs 0K/yr in running costs and basically 2 thirds of the cargoes can't make a profit :/ 08:29:24 <rubyruy> having the actual buy price be exorbitant would make much more sense 08:29:42 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:29:55 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:00 <rubyruy> and i can't tone down this particular diificulty without also toning down build costs 08:33:51 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:45 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 09:49:29 *** fonso [~fonso@e178091025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:51:14 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 09:52:09 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 09:54:19 <rubyruy> could somebody enlighten me as to the status of the ttdpatch community? 09:54:55 <rubyruy> ever since openttd was announced i assumed GRF developers would migrate to openttd whole hog, maybe ttdp would keep on a few people for legacy support reasons and not much else 09:55:31 <rubyruy> but it seems there's a pretty hefty amount of fresh development effort (for grf sets) going into ttdpatch 09:55:33 <rubyruy> why is this? 09:57:45 <ln-> because ttdpatch was and perhaps still is more advanced, has more features, etc. 09:57:50 <fonso> because of custom bridge heads missing in openttd 09:58:00 * fonso ducks 09:59:02 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 10:00:51 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:22 <fonso> FS#730 / FS#2320 are still without any official comment. 10:02:56 <fonso> I still think that diagonal levelling is very useful, especially on large maps. I also can't see what is wrong with the implementation I give there. 10:03:21 <fonso> Additionally it offers a new and very nice (IMO) way to iterate over tiles without macros. 10:05:29 <fonso> actually I made two patches implementing that functionality in different ways and I'd even implement a third version if necessary. 10:11:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdaae.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:35 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227033081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:08 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 10:47:30 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-212.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Quit: I'll get you next episode, Inspector Gadget! NEXT EPISODE!] 10:53:08 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:53:12 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 11:03:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:51 <SpComb> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=40401 <-- oh my, someone at least used to use myottd 11:10:11 *** davis [~suckyours@p5B28EAC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:17 <petern> heh 11:15:54 * davis morning 11:17:35 <fonso> Has anyone ever tried to develop a higher level "frontend" language for nfo, so that you can actually read the code and don't have to fiddle around with cryptic bitmasks all the time? 11:18:51 <fonso> "Frontend" meaning that you compile the code into real nfo afterwards. It should be fairly straigh tforward ... 11:19:33 <frosch123> I guess there are about a dozend tries (not all realeased though) 11:19:52 <fonso> I only see graphical frontends 11:20:01 <fonso> not language frontends 11:20:13 <fonso> and an nfo to html converter 11:20:46 <Aali> a graphical frontend is alot more useful though 11:21:03 <fonso> only if it is really good. 11:21:06 <Aali> since you're not really doing much programming in an nfo 11:21:24 <Aali> its mostly defining properties for your stuff 11:21:35 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:21:43 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 11:21:50 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:21:54 <fonso> Yes, but you don't want to be tied into a potentially buggy GUI for doing that 11:21:55 <frosch123> Aali: there are two parts of an nfo. One about aligning sprites and defining bounding boxes. That one could be done by some graphical frontend 11:22:13 <fonso> A compiler for some high level language can be much simpler than a GUI 11:22:17 <frosch123> And one that is more like programming and deals a lot with bit shifting and masking 11:22:33 <frosch123> For the second part a graphical interface is IMO more a step backwards 11:22:38 <fonso> and you can still build a GUI around the frontend language. 11:23:02 <Aali> frosch123: and the programming part for your average grf is not very complicated 11:23:07 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:23:25 <frosch123> Aali: But it is the part, fonso asked about, didn't he? 11:23:39 <Aali> sure 11:25:00 <Aali> but a graphical frontend is still pretty good at doing action0s, action2s and action3s 11:25:06 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:25:34 <frosch123> no, it isn't 11:25:57 <Aali> anything more complicated and you still end up writing the same code, its just in a different format 11:26:03 <frosch123> you think about very simple grfs, which only use some constants 11:26:12 <Aali> yes 11:26:13 <fonso> No one prevents you from writing one. But instead of producing nfo directly it could output some other language which you can read and then further work on. 11:27:11 <Aali> i haven't seen any grfs that weren't that simple 11:27:19 <Aali> sure, they probably exist 11:27:26 <fonso> Look at the canadian trains set 11:27:32 <fonso> or dbset xl 11:27:33 <Aali> but they're not that many 11:28:36 <frosch123> or any industry grf 11:32:01 <fonso> Building a consistent high level language would also be a good opportunity to find and repair inconsitencies in nfo itself. For example the fact that you can define a callback to decide if industry tiles need a foundation to be drawn but you can't do the same thing for houses. 11:33:15 <frosch123> if you count that as inconsistency, you should hope to never hear about 8 and 15 bit callbacks 11:34:52 <fonso> So I hope ... but I also hope you are going to disappoint me right now. 11:37:21 <frosch123> well, the problem becomes smaller when grf coders do not know about it :) 11:39:27 <fonso> Basically, I think we won't get around the ugliness of nfo for some time. But we can hack it up so that all properties and callbacks are consistent with each other. If we have a nice compiler for the resulting high level language we can integrate it in openTTD and skip the nfo step. For TTDPatch you could still compile it into nfo then. 11:39:38 <fonso> Is that a viable strategy? 11:40:28 <frosch123> for an other example: take a look at the speed properties of the different vehicle types. or even better take a look at the two weight properties of rail vehicles, and then at the two cost properties of bridges 11:41:38 <frosch123> or take a look which properties can be modified by callback 36, and which have their own callback 11:42:28 <frosch123> also callback 36 is called at different times for different properties (e.g. running cost every tick, vehicle length only in depot, ...) 11:42:53 <fonso> nice ... what a mess 11:43:28 <frosch123> or generally, from a grf creator point of view, you might wonder, why most vehicle callbacks apply to all vehicle types, but the house/station/industry callbacks are separate though they do the same 11:44:25 <frosch123> to sum up, nfo depends highly on how ttd works. and the grf coder has to know about those ttd details, as ttdp/ottd cannot support everything that might be codeable with nfo 11:45:04 <fonso> Openttd should be able to support more things than ttdpatch 11:45:30 <fonso> and we can implement a permissive and a restricted compiler 11:45:39 <frosch123> there is no big difference between ottd and ttdp in that point 11:45:54 <fonso> the restricted compiler would check for things that can't be done in ttdp. 11:46:43 <fonso> The house tile foundation thing would be trivial to implement in openttd, but simply isn't specified. 11:46:49 <frosch123> I would really like to see a compiler, that ensures that the vehicle length callback does only change its return value, while inside depot 11:47:24 <fonso> Is it possible to check that statically? 11:47:32 <frosch123> [12:48] <fonso> The house tile foundation thing would be trivial to implement in openttd, but simply isn't specified. <- and why is there a open fs task since a half year? 11:47:46 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 11:47:50 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:48:05 <fonso> I just commented on it. With sample code. 11:48:10 <frosch123> [12:49] <fonso> Is it possible to check that statically? <- in the mean time ottd checks it at run time 11:48:48 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:48:54 <fonso> perhaps the whole thing is not that straight forward. 11:49:06 <Korenn> petern: will you be moving that cargo grf to a new hosting spot, or should I just remove all mention of them from the wiki page? 11:50:47 <frosch123> fonso: your fs patch does hardly a 1/4 what is needed 11:51:18 <fonso> well, if you define that flag you also need to recognise it when parsing. I know. 11:51:22 <frosch123> you also need some slope-check callback on construction and an autoslope callback 11:51:51 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 11:51:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 11:51:53 <frosch123> and the autoslope callback in its current form is one of the less usable callbacks at all 11:52:32 <fonso> those would be the same as with industries, wouldn't they? 11:53:51 <frosch123> ok, then restart from somewhat earlier in the discussion: would you add a new callback as it is done for the animation stuff, or would you use the same callback number as for industries as it shall return the same stuff? 11:54:30 <frosch123> and the autoslope callback is a bit more critical for houses 11:54:59 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 11:55:24 <frosch123> i.e. currently there is now way to figure out, what would the slope look like after autoslope. so currently all industry grfs, that have custom foundations, just disable autoslope. 11:55:47 <frosch123> but would like every second house inside a town to disallow autoslope? 11:56:19 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:22 <fonso> won't work, of course. Because houses can be next to each other. 11:56:43 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 11:56:50 <fonso> but can't industries be placed next to each other, too? 11:56:57 <fonso> bah, I'm confused. 11:57:37 <frosch123> or would you rather like some callbacks which tell what slope the house needs, and ottd/ttdp then draw a matching flat/inclined/whatever foundation? 11:57:52 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-134.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 11:59:55 <fonso> I see there is a problem. We have to decide on which foundation the given house can be built. Right? So, how is that solved for industries and why can't we reuse that solution? 12:00:35 <frosch123> Industry tiles have a slope-check and an autoslope callback 12:01:28 <George> hey, are you discussing FS 2069? May I take part in? ;) 12:01:37 <fonso> Action0IndustryTiles 12:01:38 <petern> Korenn, yes i will 12:01:43 <frosch123> and as I already said, the autoslope callback can only be used to disallow any autosloping, i.e. not depening on how the player is about to terraform the tile 12:01:51 <fonso> So why can't we have Action0HouseTiles? 12:01:58 <frosch123> yes, George, you are welcome :) 12:02:24 <frosch123> fonso: because there are no house tiles? 12:04:17 <fonso> Is that only because we don't have the respective callback in Action0Houses? 12:05:08 <George> So, as you could see on my screen shot, I came to the idea to have houses, which require sloped land the same way industries do. Unfortunately, 2x2 and 2x1 houses can be placed on a different tile than a northern one (2x1 house have 2 possible locations, while 2x2 houses have 4). The idea was to grant houses just the same behaviour as industry tiles have. 12:06:36 <George> Hope, the idea is understandable, I hope ;) I'd like to know, would it be hard to apply this part of the industry tiles code to houses? 12:06:42 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:09:08 * frosch123 wrote a small summary in the fs task 12:10:08 <Korenn> petern: oki, thanks :) 12:11:11 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:12:17 <George> Question about a) can't the code be changed to disallow a house be build on the other place (build on the northern tile only) 12:15:08 <George> b) well, for most buildings the callback 3C may return 0. For some special buildings, who require callback 3C, it may be 1. 12:15:30 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:04 <frosch123> hmm, maybe a) is no longer true 12:16:57 <frosch123> George: I can imagine that some point most buildings on hills build into the hill instead of using an ugly foundations 12:17:32 <frosch123> that would basically disable autoslope in towns for hilly terrain 12:18:23 <George> b) also, why not to implement a new var for callback 3C, that will return new slope byte for all 4 tiles affected. So, when a point is trying to be lowed or raised, it will happen only if all 4 tiles will allow it 12:19:27 <frosch123> so IMO the industry concept is not that useable here. Maybe let the custom slope callback return the slope the house expects. So OTTD/TTDP could draw a matching flat/inclined slope to create the expected slope on any terrain 12:20:02 <George> frosch123: Well, if house set would provide different graphics for sloped tiles, then I suppose it should prevent terraforming. And a player would know it when loading such a set 12:21:00 <frosch123> yup, that would be the classical solution :) i.e. to leave everything up to the grf coder :p 12:21:09 <George> frosch123: Let me disagree with you here. If a house set prevents terraforming - it's a concept of a house set. It is just designed that way. Why is it not acceptable for houses? 12:21:37 <George> frosch123: Yes. Don't you love grf coders? ;) 12:22:26 <George> Imho, very good solution :) :) 12:22:49 <frosch123> err, I did not said disallowing autoslope would be intended by the grf creator, just that is basically the only way to prevent the house from falling up or down or being disconnected from other tiles of the same house 12:24:02 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet549.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:24:36 <frosch123> and just passing the new slope to the autoslope callback would IMO make things for grfs far too complicated 12:25:25 <George> You mean the GRF coder should control then that tiles of a house are still connected the right way? Well, It would not frighten me ;) 12:26:10 *** davis is now known as davis- 12:26:52 <frosch123> see also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=625008#p625008, but please do not bump the thread :) 12:31:45 <frosch123> though maybe instead of adding a new property to control that stuff, the autoslope callback could return different values. but that would require grf version 8, as the current autoslope callback is not extensible 12:35:01 <George> frosch123: >* houses/industries if they allow that. (This is controlled by newgrf properties resp. their default values) 12:35:03 <George> How do hoses allow/disallow autoslope? 12:35:59 <frosch123> houses have a "only allowed on flat ground" flag in some action 0 property 12:36:18 <frosch123> that one is also evaluated for houses in ottd, but IIRC not in ttdp 12:36:43 <George> that affects construction only, isn't it? 12:36:57 <frosch123> in ottd also autosloping :) 12:37:02 <frosch123> but only for houses 12:37:24 <frosch123> industry autosloping does not check any of the during-construction-slope-restrictions 12:37:57 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 12:38:10 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:40:15 *** fonso [~fonso@e178091025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 12:41:25 <Antdovu> is it supposed to be the case that you can't double click a WWT_TEXTBTN unless it is in a lowered state? 12:42:17 <Antdovu> for example the clone button in depots is of that type 12:49:45 *** Char [~Ich@d83-176-35-85.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 12:49:45 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:52 *** Char2 [~Ich@d83-176-35-85.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 12:55:27 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.165.94.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:00:03 <Wolf01> hello 13:01:45 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:02:03 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-212.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:03:33 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:05:33 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:09:44 <George> frosch123: Call callback 3C which can deny autosloping. Variable 60 represents the landscape that would result from the terraform operation (i.e. the new slope of the calling and neighboured tiles). If the callback fails, threat it like not enabled, i.e. allow autoslope. 13:09:45 <George> Does it work? Cool, why didn't you write it on wiki? Also, would it change all the bits of var 60, or slope info only? For example, lowing land to water level would make it water? 13:10:19 <frosch123> no, it does not work 13:10:21 <ln-> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericrolph/3010522725/ 13:10:46 <frosch123> George: the whole thread is full of suggestions, but none became reality 13:11:25 <George> fro 13:11:57 <George> frosch123: ops, I supposed it is a PATCH, the thing that is coded. sorry 13:22:02 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:35 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 13:45:36 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82AEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:48:00 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82EB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:48:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:00:32 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-134.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:02 <George> frosch123: I've read the topic. I could not understand - what is the future of getting more information during callback 3c about sloped land? Do you plan to implement it? 14:15:04 <George> Also, what about hoses? Can they be build not at northern tile or not? And what do you think about implementing all these callbacks (3C, 2F, 30) for houses? 14:15:18 *** rortom [~rortom_@5acfc1f1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:21 <rortom> hi 14:15:30 <rortom> whats the format for the GUI widgets again? 14:15:42 <glx> what do you mean? 14:15:44 <rortom> { WWT_CLOSEBOX, RESIZE_NONE, COLOUR_GREY, 0, 10, 0, 13, STR_00C5, STR_018B_CLOSE_WINDOW}, // SVW_CLOSEBOX 14:16:00 <rortom> x,y, width,height? 14:16:30 <glx> top, bottom, left, right 14:16:47 <rortom> ah, thank you very much, i always forget it ;) 14:17:27 *** Antdovu1 [~Otinn@vpn2-135.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:17:47 <Antdovu1> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40391 14:17:49 <Antdovu1> Any further criticism/suggestions? 14:18:44 <glx> rortom: indeed it's left, right, top, bottom :) 14:18:45 <rortom> nice idea :) 14:18:55 <rortom> glx: lol, thanks ;) 14:19:17 <glx> window_gui.h:81 14:20:18 <frosch123> George: Implementing is on my TODO list. For OTTD all suggestions (which I have heard of) are possible. Just that noone had good arguments for or against the different specs. 14:21:17 <George> frosch123: Do you mean about hoses or industries? 14:22:14 <frosch123> However usually these discussion end up in nothing. See engine pool discussion wrt. attaching wagons from other sets, the autoslope discussion, dalestan's discussion about removing sprite numbers in nfo version 8, the noai discussion about reworking the AI callback, ... 14:23:13 <frosch123> [15:23] <George> frosch123: Do you mean about hoses or industries? <- both, in fact fonso is right that implementing is easy, after the specs are finished 14:24:55 <George> frosch123: Confused. Why not to use industry spec for houses? (2F, 30, 3C) 14:26:02 <frosch123> only when the autoslope situation for callback 0x3C is resolved. I dislike duplicating problems. 14:26:46 <George> Oh, I see. Well, is there a sum post for all the problems left? 14:27:32 <rortom> rewriting gui stuff is unnice :\ 14:28:20 <frosch123> I am working on one, but that might take some time... 14:29:01 <George> Let me know when it is written, please. 14:30:01 <rortom> isnt there a new c++ based GUI? 14:31:10 *** PhoenixII [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:31:22 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:58 <Antdovu1> there is a new GUI since 0.6 14:32:24 <Antdovu1> as in, after 0.6 14:33:06 <rortom> is there anything in 0.6 written in it? 14:33:13 <dih> Antdovu1, as a default action it sucks :-P 14:33:31 <Alberth> rortom: we switched to derived Window classes for each window 14:33:45 <dih> shift and ctrl are already taken 14:33:58 <Antdovu1> if you are talking about the clone patch: the default action is now the same as in trunk 14:34:10 <dih> you could amke an 'advanced settings' option where people can enable that dialog as a default, but i doubt it's _that_ useful 14:34:14 <Antdovu1> new behaviour only with double click 14:34:23 <dih> nobody clones a vehicle 20 times in one go 14:34:39 <Antdovu1> nobody needs more than 560KB of memory ;) 14:34:45 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:34:55 <dih> Antdovu1, that is a totaly unrelated comment 14:35:11 <Antdovu1> translation: I actually did need it, more than in one game 14:35:13 <dih> as i did not say nobody uses more than 20 vehivles 14:35:20 <dih> i said they dont clone that many in one batch 14:35:30 <dih> YOU did ;-) 14:35:43 <Antdovu1> there are other people with HUGE networks 14:35:48 <dih> yep 14:35:52 <dih> openttdcoop for example 14:35:57 <dih> you still clone when it's needed 14:36:12 <dih> you dont just send 50 trains to the station 14:36:33 <Antdovu1> what about when converting from one railway type to another? 14:36:35 <dih> just to avoid a huge queue and a loss of money for the first 2 years 14:37:19 <Antdovu1> routes on 2048^2 maps can give you quite a bit of room for such actions :) 14:37:41 <dih> no - just because it's possible does not mean it's done ;-) 14:38:09 <dih> just because a 2048^2 map allows you to level 3/4 of it and still have a 1024^2 map does not mean it's done 14:38:24 <rortom> Alberth: is there any example in the code whee i can see how to use the new windowing system? 14:38:42 <Alberth> rortom: any *_gui.cpp file will do probably 14:38:52 <dih> Antdovu1, for the most cases it's not worth overriding the default handling of cloning 14:39:10 <Antdovu1> as I said, I already changed the default action 14:39:32 <dih> i know you said that 14:39:46 <rortom> Alberth: but the system still defines the widgets using that array? 14:39:47 <dih> as i said - you'd have more interested people if you did not :-P 14:39:59 <Alberth> rortom: yes 14:40:29 <Antdovu1> which is why I made it work the way people suggested ;) 14:40:29 <rortom> ok, thanks :) 14:41:09 <dih> still - i doubt it will have any amount of use 14:42:00 <Mark> that clone patch is the best suggestion i've seen in a long time 14:42:07 <dih> ? 14:42:19 <Alberth> rortom: what are you making? 14:42:31 <rortom> Alberth: you will see later ;) 14:42:36 <dih> Mark, sinse when do you clone that many vehicles that you could not click faster? 14:42:51 <Mark> clicking makes your fingers hurt 14:42:54 <Mark> and, you do 14:43:09 <Mark> in coop games it often happens you clone 50 or more trains in a time 14:43:25 <Mark> hundreds even, when using selfregulating networks 14:43:30 <Mark> i know i'd use that feature a lot 14:43:48 <dih> do :-P 14:43:55 <dih> i think it's silly 14:43:56 <dih> :-P 14:45:07 <Antdovu1> good to see that someone thinks it is useful :P 14:45:30 <dih> Antdovu1, you even have people that would like to see war as a desaster in OpenTTD :-P 14:46:34 <Mark> another situation where it's useful: when converting a large network to a new track type 14:46:50 <dih> since when does openttdcoop do that? :-P 14:47:05 <Mark> since when don't we? 14:47:10 <dih> ? 14:47:22 <Mark> see prozone game 2 14:47:23 <dih> i have only seen you guys stick with one single track type for the entire game 14:47:28 <dih> pz 14:47:35 <dih> pz has lived for 2 games during 3 months 14:47:45 <dih> that is a huge flopp imo 14:47:57 <Mark> that's quite unrelated to my point 14:48:27 <dih> mz / pz games are totally different from ps games 14:48:35 <dih> of course in those games you may have had upgrades 14:48:42 <dih> and of course they occure in other network games 14:49:03 <dih> but that is a single situation 14:49:12 <dih> a single semi usefu. one 14:49:19 <dih> *useful 14:49:39 <Mark> [15:42] <Mark> clicking makes your fingers hurt -> that was actually a serious point 14:49:46 <Mark> have you ever cloned 1000 trains? 14:50:15 <dih> in all honesty i doubt you have 14:50:16 <SpComb> have I ever wanted to clone 1000 trains? 14:50:33 <dih> even on coop games where you do have that number of trains 14:50:39 <Antdovu1> 1000 on usually different routes I presume 14:50:54 <dih> Antdovu1, they often share a mainline 14:51:00 <Mark> yeah, on different routes 14:51:27 <Mark> still, one needs to click 1000 times 14:51:30 <Antdovu1> I converted ~800 from electric to maglev in my last big game 14:51:49 <dih> Mark, name one game where you have actually YOURSELF had to clone even close to that number of trains 14:51:59 <dih> i really doubt you ever did that 14:52:03 <Mark> alright 14:52:09 <Mark> hold on 14:52:25 <Mark> i do remember a situation, it was actually on your server 14:52:42 <dih> Mark, you never had 1000 trains on my servers 14:52:49 <Mark> fine then, 500 14:53:02 <Mark> still, 500 clicks is a lot 14:53:06 <dih> so we just dubbled a number to make a point? 14:53:16 <Antdovu1> see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=30679&start=320 for my post 14:53:17 <Mark> and takes a lot more time than typing "500" 14:53:30 <Antdovu1> a single player game with 1800 trains in the end 14:53:38 <dih> and where did you have 500 vehicles serving one station so you could really use the tool and type 500 in that dialog window? 14:54:07 <Mark> i did - in the game i just mentioned 14:54:18 <Mark> i had a ring around the map, with trains visiting 8 cities 14:54:19 <dih> you had 500 trains serving the same route? 14:54:22 <Mark> yep 14:54:25 <dih> lol 14:54:36 <dih> and you upgraded that ring 14:54:40 <Mark> yeah - twice 14:54:47 <dih> that sounds like a game with Prince Daniel :-P 14:54:55 <Antdovu1> just accept the fact that people play openttd in different ways :) 14:54:57 <dih> or shortley after :-P 14:55:01 <Mark> could have been 14:55:09 <dih> Antdovu1, i do very well know people play in different ways 14:55:13 <Mark> it's a while ago indeed 14:55:26 <dih> Antdovu1, no need to point that out to me ;-) 14:55:39 <dih> it's a style PD used to play 14:56:02 <dih> Antdovu1, i also know that you dont usually have 500 trains serving the same route 14:56:08 <dih> it's a very rare situation 14:56:23 <Antdovu1> it doesn't matter whether it is 1 or 10 routes 14:56:24 <dih> if you have 50 trains serving the same route you are using steamers on a large map :-P 14:56:31 <Mark> so, why shouldn't it be implented? 14:56:33 <dih> Antdovu1, it does matter 14:56:37 <Mark> because it won't be used a lot? 14:56:44 <dih> if you only have 5 - 20 trains serving the same route i click 14:56:52 <dih> and you are faster clicking 14:57:08 <Mark> i'm sure there are plenty of people who'd use it, and i doubt the patch would be insanely big or complex 14:57:43 <dih> Mark, as someone who does not even look at code, that is a lovely statement to make :-D 14:58:01 <dih> but it should not be big :-P 14:58:05 <Mark> that's why i said "i doubt" 14:58:08 <Antdovu1> in its current form it isn't too large and it creates less network traffic than cloning all one by one 14:58:09 <Mark> and not "i'm sure" 14:58:54 <dih> :p 14:59:06 <dih> Antdovu1, you added a special network packet? 14:59:11 <dih> lovely 14:59:17 <dih> something the server can block :-D 14:59:26 <dih> so it's not just a client side patch 14:59:31 <Antdovu1> just changed the clone command slightly 14:59:36 <dih> i think people would love you more for making it client side only 14:59:50 <Antdovu1> no, they wouldn't -- trust me 15:00:00 <Antdovu1> I tried it that way before 15:00:23 <dih> they would - c'ause then they could use it on network games 15:00:29 <dih> this way you need a server to support it 15:00:30 <Antdovu1> it had to use an ugly hack to be even usable 15:00:42 <dih> + then all clients need to support it also 15:00:55 <Antdovu1> it ran into the same problem as copy-paste in network games 15:01:03 <dih> Antdovu1, a ugly hack? even less reason to talk about it 15:01:04 <dih> :-P 15:01:12 <dih> nice 15:01:16 <dih> gnah 15:01:17 <dih> :-P 15:01:30 <dih> anyway - i am off 15:01:33 <Antdovu1> basically you could overwhelm the server with the flood of commands 15:01:42 <dih> you always can 15:01:46 <dih> if you have a patched client 15:01:57 <Antdovu1> yeah, but the current way doesn't do that 15:04:07 *** davis [~suckyours@p5B28F850.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:24 *** Antdovu1 is now known as Antdovu 15:05:48 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm130.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 15:05:58 <rortom> has someone time and will to help me find a bug in my code? :\ 15:06:04 <rortom> its a little one only 15:06:24 <petern> no 15:06:35 <petern> when will ror handle vehicle physics properly ;) 15:07:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:07:06 <rortom> haha :p 15:07:31 <rortom> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m7884fa2b 15:07:45 <rortom> the top row bar resizes sometimes correctly, and sometimes not?! 15:07:47 <Rubidium> is that an euphemism for: please implement my idea? 15:07:53 <davis> that looks .. fun 15:07:57 <rortom> no 15:08:05 <rortom> its why do i have that gui bug?! 15:08:24 <rortom> i will implement my stuff on my own ... 15:08:40 <davis> what is that code for? 15:08:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-178-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:09:01 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:10:33 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2023rd%20Jun%201950.png 15:10:59 <rortom> it should be a tab thing 15:11:19 <davis> ah 15:11:39 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28EAC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:18 <glx> rortom: in station_gui.h you have an align problem 15:12:46 <rortom> it works with resizing, but not all the time 15:14:24 <rortom> like that: http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2015th%20Jun%201950.png 15:14:34 <Rubidium> glx: it's *everywhere* where he touched code 15:14:47 <glx> indeed ;) 15:15:01 <rortom> :| 15:15:26 <Rubidium> and to quote an old teacher of mine: "your documentation/comments are missing, so the compiler doesn't understand what you want it to do" 15:15:34 <rortom> i think putting the information into tabs would look better then now? 15:15:40 <rortom> whahahaa :p 15:15:47 <glx> rortom: your enum has duplicates 15:15:52 <rortom> oh? :| 15:16:12 <glx> no wonder it doesn't work 15:16:17 <Rubidium> glx: now you spoiled the fun... I was waiting for him telling what his bug was 15:16:26 <davis> lol 15:17:01 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit] 15:17:03 <rortom> i know that it was my bug 15:17:04 <rortom> :| 15:17:57 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:24 <rortom> also, the enum list has duplicates in its original form :\ 15:19:19 <rortom> i just increased the numbers 15:20:06 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [] 15:24:15 <Muxy> hello here 15:26:19 <glx> hmm ok the enum looks right indeed 15:27:43 <Doorslammer> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=111777031 15:37:45 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:39:31 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 15:39:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:47 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@ip54534322.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:46:15 <rortom> :D 15:46:16 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2020th%20Jun%201950.png 15:46:19 <rortom> working 15:46:34 <rortom> just the small glitch with horizontal rizing is still there 15:46:38 <rortom> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m69afd65 15:48:04 <rortom> mh, the glitch happens if i resize vertically :\ 15:50:51 <davis> :| 15:54:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.170.152] has joined #openttd 15:56:10 *** bottiger [~arvid@psi0.nbi.dk] has joined #openttd 15:58:10 <bottiger> Okey, I have a couple of questions. First, what determins how much money you earn? my trucks earn about 2000 each, while my opponent earns about 6000 ? 16:00:08 <Doorslammer> Profit 16:00:08 <frosch123> the cargo type, the amount of cargo transported, the distance, the speed and the vehicle running costs 16:00:50 <frosch123> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cargo_income 16:01:21 <bottiger> "the distance" - I suspected that. Is it good to have long (rail)roads? 16:02:03 <rortom> yep 16:02:12 <frosch123> at least it is easier with them 16:03:30 *** insulfrog [~trainslov@92.0.210.54] has joined #openttd 16:03:56 <insulfrog> hi all :) 16:04:06 <bottiger> so that may be why I suck so hard :P 16:04:45 <rortom> lol ;) 16:05:21 <benjamingoodger> yeah, anything under ten squares between stations is likely to be inefficient 16:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a problem for tram networks without cargodest... 16:06:23 <benjamingoodger> in towns, also, it is nearly impossible to get a good spot, so I install a tram station in the centre and run trams to the outside station 16:06:25 <benjamingoodger> oh? 16:06:38 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051076183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:07:32 <Antdovu> anyone want to tell me which deadly sins my fast clone patch commits? 16:07:37 <bottiger> also, does i matter how close you place your station on the resource? 16:07:42 <bottiger> or is it just in or out? 16:07:55 <benjamingoodger> bottiger: I think as long as it's within the station's catchment area you're OK 16:08:43 <bottiger> benjamingoodger: ok 16:09:12 <bottiger> and at last - what's the point of "platform length" ? just larger coverage area? 16:09:24 <benjamingoodger> and longer trains..? 16:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> trains that are longer than the platform take much longer to load 16:09:55 <insulfrog> the platform lengh is dependant on your train length 16:09:55 <bottiger> ohh 16:09:58 <bottiger> thanks you 16:10:07 <benjamingoodger> as well as blocking the interchanges outside the station 16:11:50 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: does cargodest solve the problem of having massive imbalances in passenger numbers between cities and towns? 16:12:31 <insulfrog> I have a few questions to ask myself, has anyone heard of the OTTD spinoff? 16:12:37 <Aylomen> yes, me 16:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> not directly, but there are measures in place that people prefer "bigger stations", whatever measure there is to determine that 16:12:49 <benjamingoodger> for instance, a train starting at a city may leave full and leave some behind, and dump everyone onto the next stop, and then run empty for the next few stops until returning to the city 16:13:14 <benjamingoodger> OTTD spinoff? 16:13:30 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82EB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "the" OTTD spinoff? 16:13:45 <Aylomen> are there more spinoffs? 16:13:46 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227033081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:46 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 16:13:53 <ln-> spinoff as in tv series where a new series is made based on one or two characters of the original? 16:13:54 <insulfrog> there is a thread about it on the OTTD forums 16:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you're not talking about "Transpoerter 0.1", are you? 16:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> -e 16:15:06 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8417E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:15:09 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:15:24 <insulfrog> its the ' Open TTD Challenge Spinoff 2 Beta' 16:15:58 <Aylomen> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=16072&hilit=spinoff+OTTD 16:16:11 <frosch123> "2 beta". is that the ancient one, or the newly started? 16:16:19 <rortom> uhm is there a string where i can just display the cargo's name and not the amount? 16:16:41 <frosch123> grep for {CARGO} 16:16:48 <rortom> atm im using STR_0009 16:16:55 <frosch123> in english.txt 16:16:55 <insulfrog> thats the one :) 16:16:56 <rortom> done that, saw that 16:17:04 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-212.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Quit: I'll get you next episode, Inspector Gadget! NEXT EPISODE!] 16:17:09 *** davis is now known as davis- 16:17:16 <benjamingoodger> hmm, looks fun 16:17:56 <insulfrog> I am trying to run it, as I would like to have a go at it myself 16:18:26 <insulfrog> however, its looking for various grf files 16:18:49 <insulfrog> one of them is the 'autorail.grf' 16:19:09 <Aylomen> it's based on a very old revision 16:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> rortom: the build vehicle window must somehow create the list of refittable cargo types 16:19:36 <Aperculum> so, euro isn't allowed unit until 1999 in game? 16:19:54 <Aperculum> currency* 16:20:07 <benjamingoodger> sounds sensible 16:20:16 <Aylomen> I think, it is 2002 16:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> euro was introduced in 2002 in most countries 16:20:35 <Aperculum> but euro became official in 1999} 16:20:57 <rortom> Eddi|zuHause: indeed, thanks for the tip :) 16:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the Y2K bug backwards 16:21:09 <Aperculum> cool 16:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't set values below 2000 16:21:30 <benjamingoodger> gordon brown says: "my criteria for joining the eurozone is that the pound must be worth less than the euro" ~~~ on this basis, the UK will be printing its first euro banknotes tomorrow afternoon 16:21:46 <insulfrog> hmm... sounds like I need to do some extra digging around 16:22:07 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:22:28 <rortom> uhm, as far as i see we have SHORTCARGO and CARGO 16:22:45 <rortom> which both contains an amount? 16:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how about you feed it a generic {STRING} parameter? 16:24:55 <rortom> good idea :) 16:25:07 <rortom> far easier then creating a new type ;) 16:25:55 *** Zorni [zorn@e177113014.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:19 *** Zorn [zorn@g224106076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:27:53 <frosch123> DrawStringCentered(x + 6 + cg_ofst, y + cg_ofst, cs->abbrev, TC_BLACK); <- that one is used in the station list 16:28:24 <frosch123> CargoSpec contains the stringid for both the full name and the abbreviation 16:28:59 <frosch123> so, yes, you can use the stringid directly 16:29:01 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] 16:32:18 *** insulfrog [~trainslov@92.0.210.54] has left #openttd [] 16:35:15 <rortom> ah, thanks :) 16:40:14 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2019th%20Jun%201950.png 16:40:18 <rortom> that worked thanks :) 16:40:26 <rortom> what you think of my idea 16:40:34 <rortom> i think its pretty good space usage 16:40:54 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm130.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:41:13 <rortom> i should mark the current selected button 16:49:05 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host183-181-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:49:05 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2398 16:49:05 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 16:49:58 <ln-> ciao a |AWAY 16:51:56 *** Guest2398 [~wolf01@host15-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:18 <davis-> rortom 16:53:25 <davis-> i like that idea . 16:56:01 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@ip54534322.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 17:01:21 <rortom> thanks ;) 17:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> really, the produced cargo should also appear in the station window... it's a real oversight to only do that for the build station window 17:05:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:31 <rortom> mh, good point 17:09:09 *** Nuke2 [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 17:09:09 <rortom> how to create toggle buttons btw? 17:09:29 <rortom> manually -> this->LowerWidget(SVW_WAITINGBTN); ? 17:10:40 <rortom> SetWidgetLoweredState ? 17:11:24 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:13:14 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:09 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:20 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:16:27 <rortom> working :) 17:18:05 <frosch123> when you are doing stats, you could also implement station variable 69 :p http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Stations#Information_about_cargo_accepted_in_the_past_69_ 17:18:17 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%202nd%20Jul%201950.png 17:18:50 <rortom> oh, thanks for the hint :) 17:19:22 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:24 <rortom> maybe put accepts/produces under one tab? 17:19:34 <rortom> but how to call the tab then? 17:19:50 <frosch123> "Cargos" 17:20:06 <rortom> ok, good idea :) 17:20:44 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:57 <frosch123> btw. the stats looks crowded, maybe put it in a tooltip when clicking on the accepted/provided cargos 17:21:08 <frosch123> -s 17:21:56 <rortom> :\ 17:22:07 <rortom> i wanted to provide lots of stats 17:22:15 <rortom> thatfor i want to use the scroll area 17:22:54 <rortom> like 17:22:59 <rortom> goods / year 17:22:59 <frosch123> maybe add "generate pdf report" button? 17:23:03 <rortom> :| 17:23:13 <rortom> if you have a big station 17:23:29 <rortom> how do you know how much stuff is transferred there per month? 17:24:15 <frosch123> isn't goods per month enough? 17:24:33 <frosch123> industries also do not have more info 17:26:15 <frosch123> I also do not understand the ratings window 17:26:28 <rortom> why? 17:26:43 <frosch123> the cargo rating should go into the "provided cargo" tab 17:26:59 <rortom> mhm 17:27:17 <rortom> so we have just a cargo tab 17:27:22 <rortom> with accepted cargo 17:27:28 <rortom> and its rating 17:27:32 <rortom> and provided cargo 17:27:45 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:28:56 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BAF58.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:29:17 <frosch123> well, maybe two tabs for "outgoing" cargo (with ratings and waiting cargo) and "ingoing" cargo (only the cargo) 17:29:36 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:38 <frosch123> er, "incoming" 17:29:41 <rortom> yes, i will see what looks good 17:30:23 <frosch123> well, the disadvantage of having so many tabs is that you have to switch all the time 17:31:27 <frosch123> hmm, but true, waiting cargo is not necessarily outgoing, it can also be transferred, especially when using cargodest 17:33:25 <frosch123> maybe also show cargos, which would be provided, when a vehicle would arrive. maybe "no rating yet" 17:33:36 <rortom> mh, where can i find the code to determine the provided cargo 17:33:46 <rortom> (produced one) 17:34:08 <frosch123> the build gui shows that 17:34:13 <frosch123> so look how it is done there 17:35:08 <frosch123> however, the "ratings" is basically the "provided", except of the "no rating yet" :p 17:35:11 <rortom> just found :) 17:35:16 <rortom> yes 17:35:54 <rortom> if (cargo[i] >= (supplies ? 1U : 8U)) { 17:36:01 <rortom> obfuscated code FTW :| 17:37:14 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:37:32 <Rubidium> that's not obfuscated 17:39:11 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i see at least two magic numbers 17:40:34 *** davis [~suckyours@p5B28D1D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you mean that in the way of "that's not a knife... THAT is a knife!" :p 17:42:02 <frosch123> the 1 has the unit "number of tiles providing the cargo", the 8 has the unit "1/8 of tile acceptance" 17:43:08 *** davis is now known as davis-- 17:43:22 <frosch123> so it just the usual mixing of different units in one formula, which causes space probes to miss their target 17:46:53 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:48:11 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28F850.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:56 <rortom> uhm 17:51:04 <rortom> thats going to be more complicated? 17:51:11 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:13 <rortom> it just provides DrawStationCoverageAreaText 17:51:29 <rortom> but no function to detect the provided cargo for a whole station 17:51:31 <rortom> :\ 17:51:47 <frosch123> where do the ratings come from? 17:53:02 <rortom> const GoodsEntry *ge = &st->goods[i]; 17:53:05 <rortom> SetDParam(2, ge->rating * 101 >> 8); 17:54:13 <rortom> the struct is not fed with the actual production data i guess 17:55:47 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:57:46 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:48 <frosch123> take a look at UpdateStationWaiting 17:59:05 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:00:17 <frosch123> i.e. you could just add another bit PROVIDED in addition to PICKUP and ACCEPTANCE 18:01:09 <frosch123> PROVIDED would need setting in " if (_settings_game.order.selectgoods && st->goods[type].last_speed == 0) continue; // Selectively servicing stations, and not this one" 18:01:52 <frosch123> though that line would need to be moved a little downwards 18:03:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:04:20 <rortom> uhm 18:04:28 <rortom> let me see if i understand that ;) 18:05:16 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:07:16 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:29 <rortom> mh 18:07:36 <rortom> seems thats a little too complex for me 18:07:49 <rortom> could you provide me with some little patch? :) 18:08:11 <frosch123> no, I have to deal with plane crashes 18:08:18 <rortom> ok ;) 18:08:33 <rortom> thanks for the hints so far 18:09:15 <Chrill> poke Brianetta or Sacro 18:10:09 <Chrill> Server's down and the dear sarah_pilot is not in #autopilot! :O 18:13:19 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2020th%20Jun%201950%231.png 18:13:39 <Brianetta> yeas 18:13:58 <Brianetta> I saved it, then decided I'd rather go and have my tea and read a book than immediately restart the game 18:14:15 <Brianetta> This way, I get longer before somebody pages me 18:15:50 <Brianetta> !version 18:15:50 *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 18:15:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:51 <Brianetta> !version 18:15:51 *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 18:15:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:55 <Brianetta> !version 18:15:55 *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 18:15:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:03 <Brianetta> !version 18:16:03 *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 18:16:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:03 <rortom> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m3354a536 :) 18:17:05 <rortom> working now 18:17:17 <rortom> just supplied goods missing 18:17:24 <rortom> i fixed the glitch as well :) 18:18:19 <rortom> (its far from done) 18:19:26 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%201st%20Jul%201950.png 18:22:07 <welshdragon-pc> !version 18:22:07 *** welshdragon-pc was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 18:22:19 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:22:20 <welshdragon-pc> fail 18:24:42 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:36:45 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0CA52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:37 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-147-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:56 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8417E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:49 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8385B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:48:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:49:20 *** Sacro__ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause> in the accepting part, there is no empty line after "Nothing" 18:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and the text colours should be the same in both sections 18:50:32 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdragonbabe 18:51:16 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:54 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:43 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BAF58.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 18:58:59 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:07:24 <Aperculum> so, why do I need original ttd .grf files, can't you just create free ones to remove that requirement? 19:07:45 <ln-> "just" 19:07:50 <Ammler> there are 19:09:23 <ln-> Aperculum: how many hours of work would you estimate it would take to "just" create new graphics? 19:10:20 <rortom> Eddi|zuHause: agreed, but i think thats details ;) 19:11:49 <Aperculum> ln-, is it bigger work than it was to create rest of openttd? 19:12:06 <Aperculum> it's graphics, not code 19:12:58 <planetmaker> have you tried either, Aperculum ? 19:13:46 <ln-> Aperculum: why don't you create some graphics and we'll see how much have you finished by tomorrow? you have 24 hours. 19:14:00 <planetmaker> :) good proposal. 19:14:15 <ln-> i don't even expect you to have a complete graphics set, but something. 19:15:46 <Ammler> well, if you know, how zeph 19:15:59 <Ammler> works, it might be possible in 24 hours :-P 19:16:13 <planetmaker> :P 19:16:48 <ln-> Aperculum: besides, a lot of the of the openttd code was not created (by this project anyway), but rather it was directly taken from TTD by disassembling the exe. 19:16:58 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-133-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:17:00 <Antdovu> I could easily create new and very artsy graphics for openttd in 24h 19:17:35 <planetmaker> yeah. It'd look lovely, I assume? 19:17:40 <Antdovu> I would call the style "rand()" 19:17:41 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2028th%20Jun%201950.png 19:17:44 <Antdovu> yes, it would :P 19:17:48 <planetmaker> :P 19:17:49 <rortom> lol 19:20:34 <rortom> any improvement ideas? 19:21:40 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:39 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-147-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:39 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 19:23:51 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:25:51 <frosch123> rortom: I doubt that those stations supply all cargos 19:26:03 <rortom> thats the problem 19:26:13 <rortom> i need to add a new feature for that :\ 19:26:18 <rortom> not fully done 19:26:28 <rortom> but it shows the direction :) 19:31:47 <frosch123> DaleStan, petern: is the "cc" field of vehicle variable 42 suitable for anything, when the cargo is not translated? 19:42:04 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:42:29 <DaleStan> frosch123: cc field of var 42 is never translated. 19:43:00 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:31 <frosch123> yes, but what shall a vehicle grf do with it? it could be any cargo 19:46:13 *** welshdragonbabe is now known as welshdragon 19:56:04 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:59:06 *** welshdragon2 [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:00:59 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:13 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 20:02:43 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:03:50 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:20 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon-pc 20:04:29 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:12 *** tarzicius [~tarzicius@82.141.133.18] has joined #openttd 20:29:57 <tarzicius> Ãdv nektek. 20:30:25 <ln-> kadv zikzak. 20:30:47 <tarzicius> Valaki el tudná mondani, hogyan kell az Transport Tyccon Deluxe (OPEN TTDX)-et telepÃteni openSUSE LINUX 10.3-ban? 20:31:09 <tarzicius> nagyon fontos lenne. 20:31:48 <ln-> ban? banna dig sÃ¥ hÃ¥rt. 20:32:01 *** Char2 [~Ich@d83-176-35-85.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:01 <tarzicius> Tessék? 20:32:07 *** Char2 [~Ich@d212-152-15-96.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 20:32:23 <tarzicius> Nem értem. 20:32:38 <ln-> SitÀhÀn minÀkin. 20:33:14 <dih> english please ln- :-D 20:33:20 <davis--> ! 20:33:45 <tarzicius> I want to play wit TTDX in openSUSE LINUX 10.3. 20:33:53 <tarzicius> How can I play? 20:34:01 <tarzicius> How can I install it? 20:34:15 <ln-> You need Wine. Then you can possibly install it from the CD. 20:34:35 <tarzicius> Already I have installed wine. 20:35:14 <tarzicius> What I have to do? 20:35:31 <ln-> Then you need to buy TTDX from e.g. Amazon. 20:36:04 <tarzicius> So. have You got it? 20:36:10 *** Char [~Ich@d83-176-35-85.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:20 <tarzicius> have You got it? 20:36:39 *** Char [~Ich@d212-152-15-96.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 20:36:40 <ln-> I bought one through Amazon.co.uk, but I haven't opened the package. 20:37:44 <tarzicius> Shall You send me TTDX? 20:37:51 <davis--> arnt there links in the tt-forums? 20:38:45 <tarzicius> ok. 20:38:49 *** tarzicius [~tarzicius@82.141.133.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:55 <davis--> o.o 20:41:04 <rortom> mh, in the station logic 20:41:13 <rortom> UpdateStationWaiting is used for generated good 20:41:16 <rortom> by factories? 20:41:30 <rortom> whats used to update the good that arrive via train or so? 20:41:50 <davis--> transferwaiting? 20:42:05 <frosch123> those are not "supplied" at least :) 20:43:52 <rortom> mh 20:44:01 <rortom> so we have logically three categories? 20:44:12 <rortom> incoming (target station) 20:44:19 <rortom> outgoing (source) 20:44:25 <rortom> and transferring? 20:44:51 <davis--> logical yes .. i think 20:45:09 <frosch123> you have "outgoing with rating", "incoming as acceptance" and "waiting" 20:46:37 <frosch123> rortom: take a look at the images at the bottom: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cargodest 20:46:58 <frosch123> you do not want to distinguish between produced waiting and transferred waiting cargo 20:46:58 <Wolf01> 'night 20:47:02 <frosch123> night 20:47:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host183-181-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:47:12 <ln-> frosch123: you succeeded \o/ 20:47:24 <frosch123> yeah, but for Wolf was not enough time :) 20:54:40 <arachnid> Do the OTTD routing algos build an abstract graph in memory, or work directly from the track etc information? 20:54:45 <arachnid> Just out of curiosity 20:55:54 <Aali> arachnid: cargodest builds a graph out of order lists 20:56:04 <Aali> regular ottd doesn't care 20:56:14 <arachnid> Sorry, I meant the train routing algorithm in OTTD 20:56:21 <arachnid> Not the cargo routing algorithm in Cargodest 20:56:22 <frosch123> yapf has has a cache, the other path finders not 20:56:27 <Aali> well thats up to the pathfinder 20:56:39 <arachnid> frosch123: Ah, so even yapf only caches? 20:58:10 <frosch123> well the other pathfinders always start from scratch, and as you always have to use a edge at most once, there is no point in creating a graph 20:58:26 <arachnid> You could create a single graph for all trains to use 20:58:32 <arachnid> And update it when the track layout changes 20:58:38 <frosch123> that is what yapf does 20:58:45 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 20:58:50 <frosch123> but only to some limited extent 20:59:01 <frosch123> as the costs of the edges change over time 20:59:08 <arachnid> Right. I meant you could maintain the whole thing in memory authoritatively 20:59:10 <Aali> IIRC, yapf keeps track of "segments" 20:59:24 <Aali> instead of individual pieces of track 20:59:32 <Aali> but its not much more complicated than that 20:59:33 <arachnid> Aali: That's what I was meaning when talking about a graph 20:59:50 <arachnid> frosch123: How do the costs change? 21:00:12 <frosch123> yapf has penalties for red signals which the train could reach near future. those change their states 21:00:22 <arachnid> Ah, right 21:00:45 <arachnid> Well, you could still maintain the graph, and apply per-pathfinder penalties. :) 21:01:05 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:07 <arachnid> I'm mostly just curious how it differs from how I'd attack the problem. It's obviously pretty efficient already. :) 21:01:30 <Aali> you could always take a look at the code 21:01:55 <frosch123> well, yapf is the most complicated one. I do hardly know all details of it. I only know that the other path finders start from scratch and work directly with the tracks 21:01:57 <arachnid> I tried that. A lot of digging to get started, though. :) 21:02:27 <frosch123> though yapf sucks for ships, as the graph is just too big 21:03:12 <arachnid> Hm 21:04:16 <arachnid> You'd need some way to simplify the graph, that's for sure 21:04:21 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet549.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:38 <frosch123> the recommended pathfinder for ships is still the original pathfinder. it only considers a maximum of 4 turns to reach the destination. that is fast, but you need a lot of buoys in non-straight terrain 21:05:12 <arachnid> yeah, it tends to result in some pretty stupid behaviour :P 21:05:25 <arachnid> It's an interesting problem, though :) 21:06:03 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2030th%20Sep%201950.png 21:06:06 <rortom> stats working :D 21:06:16 * Sacro wants RoR to work with his g25 21:06:25 <arachnid> Though given that ship routes change far less often than train networks, you could probably use a naive dijkstra-based pathfinder and save the best path - and share it between all ships that share a leg. :) 21:06:53 <arachnid> rortom: looks good 21:07:09 <Antdovu> will you actually be able to show the amount of incoming cargo? 21:07:22 <rortom> yep 21:07:29 <Antdovu> awesome :) 21:07:34 <rortom> ;) 21:07:56 <arachnid> I don't know how you'd know when to recalculate. You could force one if a piece of land obstructs the route, but how would you know when to look for a _more_ efficient one? 21:08:16 <Antdovu> it's a shame when your busiest station is at a power station and you have no idea how much coal is delivered... 21:08:43 <frosch123> arachnid: oh, I forgot. the main problem of ship pathfinding is, that the paths are not saved. pathfinding is restarted in every junction, which means every tile for ships 21:09:08 <arachnid> frosch123: Right. I'm just speculating about a dedicated pathfinder that _could_ save paths. :) 21:09:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:22 <arachnid> Unless there's some architectural barrier to doing that? 21:09:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B763B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:49 *** Nazcafan [~fou@laf31-4-82-236-42-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:53 <Nazcafan> hello 21:09:57 <Antdovu> Surely it is possible to have a better pathfinder for ships 21:10:07 <frosch123> well, you could store the paths, and recompute them only, when some player action modifies the drivable water 21:10:13 <rortom> Antdovu: thats the idea i had as well about the power station ;) 21:10:19 <Nazcafan> I have trouble when using dock -> train transferts 21:10:33 <Nazcafan> I chose transfert instead of "unload" 21:10:39 <arachnid> frosch123: Right. But you don't want to recalculate every time any piece of water changes. 21:10:45 <Nazcafan> however, the ship keeps swallowing back the oil 21:11:08 <frosch123> arachnid: that is far less often than a ship reaches a new tile :) 21:11:10 <Antdovu> you need to set it to transfer and unload 21:11:27 <planetmaker> Nazcafan: choose 'don't load' or 'no loading' 21:11:29 <arachnid> frosch123: True, but if you have many ships, every 'click' of earthmoving could lead to a _lot_ of routefinding. :P 21:11:38 <planetmaker> additionally to 'transfer' 21:11:47 <Nazcafan> planetmaker, how 21:11:49 <arachnid> Though admittedly even with many ships, probably the number of unique legs is still low 21:11:55 <frosch123> still, it is in any case less than currently 21:11:58 <Antdovu> there are a limited number of interesting paths for ships 21:12:20 <arachnid> frosch123: But grouped with user actions, could lead to significant latency when trying to earthmove. :) 21:12:37 <Antdovu> but that extra info would be useful 21:13:02 <Antdovu> in multiplayer some people block ships by raising ground... 21:13:06 <frosch123> well, you can add a "invalidate flag" to the stored path of all ships, which would be evaluated when a ship reaches the next tile 21:13:11 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:13:24 <arachnid> Maybe I'm overestimating the amount of pathfinding required even for large numbers of ships 21:13:50 <arachnid> frosch123: True. In fact, a ship could validate all the tiles along its precalculated route are still drivable as it crosses each tile 21:13:52 <Antdovu> do a large game with a lot of ships? :P 21:13:56 <planetmaker> Nazcafan: at the load button: you choose 'no loading' at the unload button you obviously already chose transfer 21:14:12 <arachnid> And recalculate only if it encounters land, or at the end of a leg if there's been earthmoving 21:14:17 <planetmaker> but might be that it is now in the recent nightlies different than in the stables, not sure... 21:15:21 <planetmaker> so you should end up with "transfer and leave empty" 21:15:34 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: lol.] 21:16:51 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8385B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:43 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-135.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:15 <frosch123> night 21:18:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdaae.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:47 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B830E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:18:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:19:46 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:18 <dih> <Antdovu> in multiplayer some people block ships by raising ground... <- some people try to clear ships paths and they 'flood' the entire map 21:23:40 *** Nazcafan [~fou@laf31-4-82-236-42-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:24:03 <rortom> uhm 21:24:16 <rortom> i need to find my hook points in order to setup good stats 21:24:27 <rortom> where would i put them in the best way? 21:25:50 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:53 <rortom> UpdateStationWaiting is maybe too general and cannot distinguish bestween incoming/outgoing :\ 21:27:01 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@93-80-100-125.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:29:55 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:30:31 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.165.94.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:29 <Aperculum> is there a way to increase car/train reliability? 21:32:02 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:32:45 <ln-> you should be busy drawing graphics for tomorrow. 21:33:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-178-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:47 <Aperculum> ln-, did I ask it "you should immediately do n" 21:35:02 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 21:35:15 <Aperculum> my point is that openttd isn't really going to be free until all components are free 21:35:23 <rortom> orly? :p 21:35:36 <planetmaker> Aperculum: you should read the 100+ pages thread on OpenGFX. 21:35:47 <planetmaker> or rather threads. 21:35:58 <planetmaker> And the one on the sound replacement project 21:36:25 *** mortal``` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:36:29 *** Mortal is now known as Guest2436 21:36:29 *** mortal``` is now known as mortal 21:36:37 <Aperculum> so there is people working on this 21:36:39 <Aperculum> great 21:37:13 <Aperculum> and what did I get when I asked for this "draw sum for tomorrow plz" 21:38:06 *** Guest2436 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:06 *** mortal is now known as Guest2438 21:38:09 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:39:00 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 21:39:45 <ln-> you showed how badly you underestimate the amount of work required, and how little you appreciate graphics artists' work. 21:39:56 <planetmaker> indeed. 21:42:21 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:33 *** KritiK__ [~Maxim@89-178-229-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:42:35 *** KritiK__ is now known as KritiK 21:42:42 <Aperculum> no, I just asked why it's not being done and you could have said "there are over 7000 sprites in original graphics files" instead you just started talking about me drawing some images that didn't really contain any information why 21:42:50 <Aperculum> you know, politeness 21:42:57 <Rubidium> Aperculum: nothing because people have been working on a replacement set for years and it still isn't finished. And with the current progress it won't be finished tomorrow neither 21:43:17 <Aperculum> I didn't mean to undermine the work there is, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression 21:44:52 <Aperculum> also someone could have said there is people working on it already which I didn't know when I asked 21:44:58 <Rubidium> and it probably also had something to do with the way you asked the question 21:45:10 <Aperculum> probably 21:45:21 *** Guest2438 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:21 <Aperculum> but the response could have been more helpful also 21:46:06 <dih> <Aperculum> ln-, is it bigger work than it was to create rest of openttd? <- that implies that in your eye's OpenTTD simply could not have been a lot of work 21:46:35 <dih> just the wrong approach to get a decent answer 21:46:36 <dih> imo 21:47:05 <Aperculum> I don't see how that implies that openttd isn't a lot of work 21:47:27 <dih> you used the word "just" about graphics replacement and came up with that line! 21:47:55 <dih> i serisouly dont see where that is a uplifting, sayting 'thanks', showing appreciation 21:47:57 <Aperculum> I admit, I could have chosen my words more carefully 21:48:01 <dih> :-P 21:48:02 <dih> yep 21:48:04 <dih> :-P 21:48:11 <dih> ^ tripple p 21:48:51 <dih> you could have asked if there was such a project, rather than asking why it's not done 21:48:58 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229112235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: computer has gone to sleep] 21:49:18 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 21:49:23 <Aperculum> and answer could have contained link to that project since they knew it was being done 21:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> <rortom> i need to find my hook points in order to setup good stats <- what about LoadUnload* or something? 21:49:30 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@93-80-100-125.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:20 <Aperculum> but enough of this, I admit my mistake with my sentence and hope people try to be more helpful with their answers although asker isn't so thoughtful 21:50:37 <Aperculum> :) 21:50:46 *** Nuke2 [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> since when are we here to give helpful answers? 21:52:08 <rortom> Eddi|zuHause: i thought about it, but there should be a better one i guess? 21:52:48 <glx> rortom: how long before 0.36 ? ;) 21:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's the place where cargo actually gets loaded into the vehicles... just have to sum that up 21:53:04 <rortom> glx: GRML 21:53:17 <rortom> yep ;) 21:53:20 <planetmaker> g'night folks 21:53:31 <rortom> ge->cargo.MoveTo(...) is the main thing i guess 21:53:33 <rortom> nite 21:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you want stats about how much the industries produce, just hook into the acceptance loop, and sum up all surrounding industries' production 21:54:20 <rortom> one patch after another ... ;) 21:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> NO! EVERYTHING! RIGHT NOW!1!111!einself 21:57:04 <rortom> :| 21:57:16 <rortom> not that its likely that my stuff gets merged 21:57:27 <rortom> but that makes it even more unlikely 21:57:47 <Aperculum> but you do it anyway, that's the spirit! 22:01:12 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:01:33 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 22:02:01 <Aperculum> hi 22:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why do i have the feeling that Aperculum has absolutely no clue what he is talking about? 22:03:15 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: because you and I share a telepathic bond 22:03:18 <Aperculum> oh but I have some glue here 22:03:25 <rortom> aehm 22:03:31 <Aperculum> ;) 22:03:42 <rortom> at some point everyones new ;) 22:04:08 <Aperculum> Eddi|zuHause, clue concerning what? 22:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> see? 22:04:29 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 22:04:33 <Aperculum> graphics, coding? 22:05:00 <rortom> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m15a42cd2 22:05:08 <rortom> the hooks are bad :( 22:05:22 <rortom> somehow i must understand the cargo flow first ;) 22:07:48 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:09:36 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:18 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]] 22:12:17 <rortom> agrh 22:12:20 * rortom is stupid 22:12:29 <rortom> found a bad bug :\ 22:12:44 <dih> in your kitchen? 22:12:54 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 22:12:56 <rortom> in my toaster :| 22:13:20 <rortom> btw 22:13:28 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:28 <rortom> how to use the scrollbars? 22:13:37 <rortom> do i have to care myself about clipping? 22:13:44 <rortom> and moving, etc? 22:20:58 <rortom> :D 22:21:01 <rortom> got it working :) 22:21:10 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:22:22 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/Flardhattan%20Transport%2C%2029th%20Sep%201950.png 22:22:22 <rortom> :D 22:22:53 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 22:23:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:11 *** Sacro__ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:45 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:32:31 <dih> rortom is monologing 22:32:34 <dih> :-P 22:33:12 <rortom> yeah :( 22:33:12 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14570 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (regression/regression.nut wrightai/main.nut): [NoAI] -Fix: add two ';' in .nut files, to make NAIL (v2) accept those files 22:33:13 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:33:18 <rortom> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m4c23c89d 22:33:30 <rortom> http://modclub.rigsofrods.com/thomas/.34759265/rortom%20Transport%2C%2023rd%20Mar%202122.png 22:33:33 <rortom> working good now 22:37:09 <rortom> so 22:37:18 <rortom> cleaning up now :\ 22:38:02 <rortom> what is the convention if i want to add new strings? 22:38:17 <rortom> just continue the numbering? 22:38:57 <petern> ignore the numbers 22:41:37 <rortom> ok, so just add like i wish? 22:41:51 <rortom> like -> http://ottd.pastebin.com/m4c23c89d 22:42:05 <glx> numbers are from old strings (and don't match for most of them) 22:45:12 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:55 *** Sacro__ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:49:56 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:20 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:20 <rortom> done: http://ottd.pastebin.com/m4b497686 22:50:34 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B830E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:34 <rortom> should i ask if anyone wants to test? :| 22:52:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B829BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:52:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:54:20 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.4] has joined #openttd 22:54:51 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:59 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051076183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 22:58:54 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:03:07 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 23:04:57 *** lobstah is now known as lobster 23:05:35 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:06 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:09:17 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:09:31 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:01 *** elmex [~elmex@e180069136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:05 *** welshdragon-pc [~desktop@adsl-83-100-138-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:11 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 23:17:57 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone 23:34:22 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 23:37:53 *** benjamingoodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Cheese Error +++] 23:41:34 *** Sacro__ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:49:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:51 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]