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http://static.flickr.com/103/304387953_3e41e86945.jpg 07:37:56 <planetmaker> morning folks 07:39:15 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:39:23 <planetmaker> gynter: you can - just depends how many tiles you want to use for it :) 07:39:46 <gynter> :P 07:40:22 <planetmaker> there are no diagonal roads and I haven't ever seen a patch for it and no one discuss it earnestly either. 07:40:42 <gynter> ye thats sad 07:40:49 <gynter> diagonal tunnels and bridges would be good too 07:40:55 <gynter> is there patch for those? 07:41:48 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 07:42:28 <petern> "isometric" worlds don't really lend themselves to diagonals 07:57:04 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 07:57:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 08:15:59 <planetmaker> petern: isometric view in itself doesn't say anything about a rotational thing. It just excludes scaling due to distance effects :P Sure enough, in games' reality it holds true, though :) 08:16:35 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work 08:17:09 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 08:17:55 <Celestar> heh 08:18:10 <Celestar> a female austronaut lost her "handbag" yesterday during an EVA :P 08:18:48 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 08:19:17 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 08:19:48 <planetmaker> :D 08:20:12 <planetmaker> top of the loss-list, I assume, are space lipstick and a beauty mirror? ;) 08:20:13 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 08:20:28 <Celestar> nah, it was full of tools 08:20:37 <Celestar> nail clippers, etc. :P 08:20:49 <planetmaker> :P got a link? 08:20:59 <Celestar> www.welt.de has a small story 08:21:04 <Celestar> and several other newspapers 08:21:28 <planetmaker> I only briefly scimmed over spiegel and didn't see it :) 08:21:31 <planetmaker> thx mate 08:21:39 <petern> planetmaker, no that's orthogonal vs perspective rendering... 08:22:13 <Celestar> i think it was on nasa tv as well 08:22:36 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:22:54 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 08:23:33 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179058123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:23:45 <planetmaker> petern: hm, then I might have till now understood "isometric" wrongly :) Thx for pointing out, you're right. 08:24:09 <planetmaker> it's more restrictive than I thought. 08:24:32 <Celestar> 60° 60° 90° 08:24:36 <Celestar> 1:1:1 08:24:39 <Celestar> that's isometric (= 08:25:51 <Celestar> why am I always hungry? :S 08:26:12 <Zahl> cause you never eat 08:27:27 <planetmaker> hm... I think strictly speaking OpenTTD might not be isometric as the diagonals (e.g. tile borders) are not 60° but something like 45° (or am I wrong again?) off the vertical. 08:27:53 <petern> you are wrong :) 08:27:54 <planetmaker> Celestar: that's because of the omni-present low-carb, low-fat, low-protein diet. Very unhealthy :) 08:27:57 <petern> it's not isometric 08:28:01 <petern> it's trimetric 08:28:39 <planetmaker> hm? You say OpenTTD is tri-metric? 08:28:40 <gynter> it was a toolbag 08:28:45 <gynter> not handbag' 08:29:21 <petern> hmm 08:29:33 <gynter> didn't knew that.. 08:29:34 <petern> no 08:29:38 <petern> i meant axonomic 08:29:44 <petern> axonometric 08:29:45 <petern> even 08:30:13 <petern> hmm, no 08:30:20 <planetmaker> well, wiki tells that isometric projection is an axonometric one :) 08:30:22 <petern> axonometric covers isometric anyway, hehe 08:30:23 <petern> yeah 08:30:40 <petern> and it explains the reasons why computer graphics are the way they are :p 08:30:54 <planetmaker> yep :) 08:32:05 <planetmaker> dimetric projection is it :) 08:32:15 <DASPRiD> pm \o/ 08:32:28 <planetmaker> moin DASPRiD 08:32:31 * Celestar burps 08:32:51 <planetmaker> cheers. 08:32:54 <DASPRiD> pm: see www.dasprids.de :) 08:33:37 <planetmaker> I'd say: congrats, DASPRiD :) 08:33:42 <DASPRiD> :) 08:33:57 <DASPRiD> we have no snow in germany, but at least on my website ;) 08:34:13 <Celestar> there IS snow in Germany ... 08:34:14 <planetmaker> :P 08:34:30 <DASPRiD> Celestar, not in the places i life :) 08:34:41 <Celestar> where do you live? 08:34:50 <DASPRiD> karlsruhe 08:34:54 <DASPRiD> and bonn 08:35:01 <Celestar> ah 08:35:06 <Celestar> the warmer regions (= 08:35:10 <DASPRiD> indeed 08:35:11 <DASPRiD> :/ 08:35:13 <Celestar> I'll be in Bonn on Saturday 08:35:17 <DASPRiD> oh heh 08:35:58 <DASPRiD> what are you doing there? 08:36:12 <Celestar> Watching the Ballroom World Championship ;) 08:36:19 <DASPRiD> oh :x 08:36:29 <planetmaker> Celestar: is it a dancing competition? 08:36:32 <Celestar> yeah 08:36:36 <planetmaker> cool. 08:36:42 <planetmaker> classic or latin or both? 08:36:46 <Celestar> I got a 58 EUR ticket from Munich to Bonn and back. good price. 08:36:47 <DASPRiD> pm: you'd loose, nevermind :P 08:36:50 <Celestar> planetmaker: classic 08:37:08 <planetmaker> nice :) Does your girlfriend take part? ;) 08:37:28 <Celestar> nope, she comes with me (= 08:37:33 <planetmaker> :) 08:37:55 <planetmaker> my girlfriend doesn't like dancing :S 08:38:21 <Celestar> now that's a first :D 08:38:52 <DASPRiD> i have no girlfriend :S 08:39:38 <gynter> There's snow in Estonia too 08:39:48 <gynter> second day in snow already :P 08:40:03 <Celestar> O_o the ISS needs a spacewalk just to lubricate the bearings of the SARJs? 08:40:12 <Celestar> this whole design is totally fucked up 08:42:58 <planetmaker> hehe. The design is 30 years old :P 08:43:57 <Celestar> "The correct way to build a space station is to design a heavy-lift launch vehicle and use it to launch the station to space *in one piece*" 08:44:04 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 08:44:40 <gynter> push it using lasers 08:44:50 <Celestar> an Saturn V is enough. 08:44:55 <Celestar> Skylab has proven that 08:45:09 <Celestar> in 1973! 08:45:20 <Celestar> single launch space station 08:45:27 <Celestar> about the same usable volume as the ISS 08:46:01 <Celestar> less than 1/25th of the cost (adjusted for inflation) 08:47:09 <Celestar> plus, when not needed, it could be shut down and deserted, and then be re-activated a year later 08:47:30 <Celestar> plus, it wasn't in the totally idotic orbit the ISS is in. 08:48:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 08:48:47 <Celestar> it can't be used as a stopover or save haven for any usable destination 08:49:29 <Celestar> but we learnt one thing from the ISS: How not to build an orbital structure (= 08:49:42 <DASPRiD> push it using emitting high-engery light 08:49:51 <DASPRiD> (called photon-engine) 08:50:03 <Celestar> very nice for space transportation, pretty unuable for launching stuff 08:50:23 <Qball> we just need a moon-base 08:50:38 <Celestar> that we do. 08:50:54 <Celestar> and it will NOT be built in 10-ton chunks 08:51:34 <Qball> think of the most idiotic way you can build it, then add some stupid.. that will be it 08:51:46 <benjamingoodger> I would have thought that the world's governments had better things to spend money on at this time than space exploration, which is --- let's face it --- largely pointless 08:51:57 <Celestar> I beg to differ 08:52:19 <Celestar> not to be rude, but that's an incredibly shortsighted attitude 08:52:28 <benjamingoodger> I'm sure it is 08:52:36 <benjamingoodger> but, hey, humans are shortsighted 08:52:48 <benjamingoodger> I don't plan to live for more than sixty-five more years 08:52:51 <Celestar> people were sure the Earth was a disk .... 08:52:58 <planetmaker> he, I noted in the wiki that it's actually a dimetric view instead of isometric - with a link to en.wikipedia now :) 08:53:26 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: you sound like an average politician :D 08:53:33 <planetmaker> [09:47] <Celestar> "The correct way to build a space station is to design a heavy-lift launch vehicle and use it to launch the station to space *in one piece*" <-- why is that 'correct'? 08:53:40 <planetmaker> and where do you get a Saturn V? 08:53:44 <benjamingoodger> actually, nobody of significance has ever thought the earth was a disc 08:54:11 <Gekz> it's not a disc 08:54:17 <Gekz> it's clearly a hypercube 08:54:34 <Celestar> planetmaker: because its cheaper, more reliable, can actually be on time and gives you the added bonus of a heavy lifter 08:54:35 <planetmaker> hypersphere. 08:54:35 <benjamingoodger> starting from the ancient greeks, everyone has always known it to be round 08:54:46 <benjamingoodger> or nearly round, at least 08:54:49 <Gekz> planetmaker: that's the universe 08:54:55 <planetmaker> I still want a space escalator. 08:55:09 <planetmaker> nasty nanotubes are not reliable enough yet... :S 08:55:13 <Gekz> planetmaker: visualising a hypersphere, or at least attempting it, caused me to have a seizure 08:55:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: give us the material and we will build it (= 08:55:19 <benjamingoodger> so, Celestar, what use do you think space exploration has? 08:55:20 <Gekz> it caused my seizure to have a seirzure 08:55:21 <Gekz> lol 08:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you build it, he will come 08:55:38 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: what use does exploration have ? 08:55:41 <planetmaker> Gekz: most interesting fact: 7D sphere has the biggest surface to volume ratio for all dimensions ;) 08:56:07 <planetmaker> IIRC that is ;) 08:56:55 <Gekz> dont make me cry please 08:56:56 <benjamingoodger> we're not going to get any benefit from lunar exploration in our lifetimes or indeed ever, with the exceedingly improbable exception of helium-3 mining 08:56:56 <Gekz> lol 08:57:11 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: long story short: 1) to solve Earth's problems, 2) to turn us into a multi-planet species. 08:57:30 <Qball> I want moonbase 08:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: it's really easy, you just find a representation for arbitrary dimensions, and then have 7 dimensions as a simple special case 08:57:39 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: there was no advantage to finding a shiping route to india sailing westwards either. 08:57:51 <benjamingoodger> planetmaker: bollocks 08:57:54 <Celestar> Mining the He-3 from the Moon at 4ppb is pretty stupid if it is readily available in huge quantities as Saturn. 08:58:01 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: no, planetmaker is absolutely right 08:58:03 <benjamingoodger> the advantages have always been clearly stated 08:58:04 <DASPRiD> Celestar, that doesnt solve our problems ;) 08:58:13 <Celestar> DASPRiD: many of them. 08:58:14 <DASPRiD> even when you ship a million people to mars (very hard) 08:58:17 <benjamingoodger> it was a faster route 08:58:25 <DASPRiD> still 6 billiion remain here 08:58:29 <Celestar> DASPRiD: and? 08:58:33 <DASPRiD> nothing solved 08:58:34 <planetmaker> obviously not. And it was guarded by monsters and all. 08:58:35 <DASPRiD> except 08:58:40 <DASPRiD> when on of the million is bill gates 08:58:41 <benjamingoodger> why would you want to ship a million people to mars? 08:58:44 <DASPRiD> then you solved many problems 08:58:57 <Celestar> the thing is not to ship a million people to mars. 08:59:02 <benjamingoodger> there is nothing on mars except a huge carbon dioxide atmosphere 08:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: the only reason the spanish started to find a different route to india was that the portuguese already controlled the other one... 08:59:05 <DASPRiD> Celestar, but? 08:59:06 <benjamingoodger> and we have enough carbon dioxide already 08:59:08 <Celestar> the thing is to solve the energy problem we have HERE. 08:59:26 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: well, then... the advantage is clearly obvious nonetheless 08:59:27 <DASPRiD> Celestar, how are they solved by multi-planet? 08:59:34 <gynter> black humor (i'm not a racist): "Ship all the black people and jews, then problem is solved." 08:59:35 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: except... water, all kinds of ore, anything you need to sustain life :) 08:59:44 <benjamingoodger> hmm 08:59:46 <DASPRiD> planetmaker, yeah we just need some terraforming 08:59:48 <Celestar> DASPRiD: multi planet solves another problem.. 08:59:49 <gynter> it's a quote from somebody who I can't remember 08:59:53 <DASPRiD> Celestar, tell 08:59:54 <gynter> recall* 08:59:56 <benjamingoodger> we don't yet have any actual proof that there is water on mars 09:00:00 <Celestar> DASPRiD: like surviving when Earth goes boom? 09:00:05 <planetmaker> DASPRiD: start with small habitats. 09:00:07 <gynter> but there's tractors on mars! 09:00:08 <planetmaker> feasable. 09:00:19 <benjamingoodger> earth is not going to go boom, for god's sake! 09:00:25 <Celestar> ... 09:00:29 <DASPRiD> Celestar, well very long term vision :P 09:00:30 <benjamingoodger> well 09:00:36 <benjamingoodger> not before mars goes boom, at least 09:00:36 <Celestar> Earth goes boom about every 60 million years. 09:00:38 <DASPRiD> but it doesnt solve energy problems does it? 09:00:46 <Celestar> DASPRiD: He-3 will solve the energy problem 09:00:52 <gynter> Celestar, i don't care, I'm dead then 09:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's 5 million years late :p 09:01:05 <Celestar> gynter: yeah, you sound even worse than the average politician. 09:01:09 <gynter> :)) 09:01:11 <planetmaker> yeah, we could climb trees again... :S 09:01:12 <Celestar> it's not about you, or me. 09:01:30 <benjamingoodger> who, then? 09:01:37 <planetmaker> Celestar: no curiosity, no vision.... :S 09:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> me. 09:01:39 <Celestar> the generations that FOLLOW us. 09:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i plan to live on for more than one generation 09:02:08 <planetmaker> Celestar: I guess the "I have no girlfriend thread" in the forums is that big as it is for a reason. No reason for them to care... 09:02:13 <benjamingoodger> it sounds incredibly heartless, I know, but I really don't care about them 09:02:15 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 09:02:16 <Qball> benjamingoodger: :D 09:02:25 <benjamingoodger> particularly since I plan never, ever to reproduce. I hate children 09:02:36 <DASPRiD> ;) 09:02:41 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: this has nothing to do with being heartless, this is being, excuse me, stupid. 09:02:45 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: ok, I may then consider you a selfish brag. 09:02:53 <gynter> Celestar, well, currently theres 2 generations of farmers with iq < 70 09:02:54 <petern> wrong 09:02:55 <petern> he's a twat 09:03:06 <benjamingoodger> planetmaker: as soon as you can define the word "brag" 09:03:17 <planetmaker> I can't. Peter found the word ;) 09:03:28 <benjamingoodger> woop 09:03:48 <benjamingoodger> don't let's degenerate into childish name-calling, you're not global warming theorists 09:04:05 <DASPRiD> well, if america ends like in the movie idocracy, i don't really care if they make boom 09:04:10 <gynter> farmers as brainless teens who thing that driving drunk with BMW is normal 09:04:25 <benjamingoodger> anyway, I still don't see any practical use for further space exploration 09:04:39 <Celestar> what do you see practical use for? 09:04:41 <DASPRiD> benjamingoodger, fun, joy and fluff 09:04:48 <Qball> it keeps people busy 09:04:54 <benjamingoodger> the earth is abundant in practically everything 09:05:01 <planetmaker> 30 years ago there was no practical use for lasers, 80 years ago, everything except small details were already discovered in physics. 09:05:01 <Celestar> O_o 09:05:01 <Qball> make space exploration, not war 09:05:02 <DASPRiD> Qball, playing openttd does that as well 09:05:05 <benjamingoodger> we need never leave it for energy purposes 09:05:09 <planetmaker> Max Planck was advised to study something else. 09:05:40 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: oil is running out.. 09:05:43 <benjamingoodger> there is still no practical use for lasers :P 09:05:45 <Celestar> coal a little later 09:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: given that the earths ressources are finite, that's proof that there's never going to be "abundance" of any ressource 09:05:51 <benjamingoodger> I'm not talking about oil 09:05:55 <gynter> maybe start using nuclear power? 09:06:01 <DASPRiD> Celestar, yeah, especcialy after those pirates stole 300 million liters of raw oil ;) 09:06:06 <petern> surgery seems a pretty practical use for lasers 09:06:13 <Celestar> gynter: sounds good to me actually 09:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: nuclear power is not unlimited either 09:06:23 <gynter> oh sorry, those greecrapguys are crying about nuclear power 09:06:25 <DASPRiD> yeah 09:06:31 <planetmaker> cd drives... cashier scanners... distance warners... 09:06:35 <gynter> but it'll give use time to find another good resrouce 09:06:35 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: well, I don't see our _exceedingly hot_ mantle bleeding away into space 09:06:35 <DASPRiD> uran will run out in about 80 years 09:06:45 <planetmaker> surgery, welding... 09:06:50 <DASPRiD> wedding 09:06:52 <Celestar> why protect the climate? we don't care about future generations anyway. 09:06:53 <benjamingoodger> I also don't see our surface area decreasing 09:07:20 <benjamingoodger> also, we have a big lump of rock going around us 09:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they are even concerned that they don't have enough lithium to provide for all the electric cars in the next few decades 09:07:31 <benjamingoodger> which occasionally makes water move up and down! 09:07:33 <gynter> deny all vechiles by lawand waste problem is solved 09:07:38 <gynter> also close all mcdonalds 09:07:40 <gynter> 's 09:07:46 <planetmaker> [10:11] <benjamingoodger> also, we have a big lump of rock going around us <-- you think it's better exploitable than Mars? 09:07:55 <Brianetta> Celestar: No need. Piracy at sea is on the rise. 09:08:01 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker and I have proven that wrong (= 09:08:02 <gynter> k afk 09:08:14 <planetmaker> :P 09:08:24 <benjamingoodger> planetmaker: well, considering I can do it for about £50, I'd say it's a bit more cost-effective 09:08:47 * Celestar shakes head in utter disbelief 09:09:02 <Celestar> I really hope a 20km asteroid hits us SOON. 09:09:14 <benjamingoodger> I'm sure it will 09:09:18 <Celestar> good. 09:09:22 <Celestar> then most of you will be dead. 09:09:25 <Celestar> (= 09:09:25 <planetmaker> Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Laurence J. Peter 09:09:33 <benjamingoodger> excellent quote 09:09:41 <benjamingoodger> do I disagree with it? no. 09:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: so, you want to derive >70% of the energy demands of the human race from geothermal and tidal powers? 09:09:59 <Celestar> or make it 30km, then even more will be dead, likely all. 09:10:05 <DASPRiD> geothermal, yeah, kill the planet ^_° 09:10:31 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: well, it's not like that's particularly difficult... 09:10:32 <planetmaker> probably we wouldn't even notice such rock with sufficient warning time... :S 09:10:38 <benjamingoodger> expensive, sure, but not difficult 09:10:44 <Celestar> planetmaker: we wouldn't. no chance. 09:10:50 <benjamingoodger> nope 09:11:01 <Celestar> planetmaker: with current technology (i.e. using H-bombs) we'd need about 140 years warning time. 09:11:10 <benjamingoodger> we'd have to build, oh, let's see, two billion space shuttles to escape 09:11:14 <planetmaker> yep... 09:11:23 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: we COULD move the astroid off the way ... 09:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that we have a significant amount of geothermal power stations yet... 09:11:27 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: that's not the point we advocate :) 09:11:32 <planetmaker> you're fighting wind mills. 09:11:57 <benjamingoodger> meh 09:11:59 <Celestar> which is AGES easier to do if you have a smallish Mars base than from Earth. 09:12:21 <planetmaker> best power source is still the sun. It's 1kW/m^2 as opposed to 5W/m^2 geothermal power. 09:12:27 <benjamingoodger> we have more energy radiating onto the earth's land area each second than the entire human race uses a day 09:12:35 <planetmaker> or was it 0.5 or even 0.05W/m^2 geothermal? 09:12:40 <Celestar> yeah, and no means to reasonably extract it. 09:12:42 <benjamingoodger> much smaller than that 09:12:52 <benjamingoodger> it's something like 400 kWh/day 09:13:02 <benjamingoodger> per m^2 09:13:11 <Celestar> we still don't have any kind of solar cells that produce significantly more energy than their production takes. 09:13:32 <benjamingoodger> actually, we do 09:13:41 <benjamingoodger> it's called a stirling engine 09:13:44 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179058123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:45 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228011059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:13:51 <benjamingoodger> PV cells are appalling, though, I agree 09:13:53 <Celestar> OMG then you're still stuck with thermodynamic cycles. 09:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and nobody talks about the disposal costs of this heavy metal contaminated stuff 09:14:20 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@192.87.217.56] has joined #openttd 09:14:24 <benjamingoodger> OMG you're still stuck with gravitation. 09:14:37 <planetmaker> [10:16] <Celestar> we still don't have any kind of solar cells that produce significantly more energy than their production takes. <-- that's not really true anymore afaik 09:14:39 <benjamingoodger> let's move to mars! there's no gravitation there 09:14:52 <planetmaker> ^^ neither true. it's 40% of earth's 09:15:00 <benjamingoodger> I'm being sarcastic 09:15:01 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah, the best ones (i.e. most cheap ones with about 8-12% efficiency) are around 1.2 09:15:24 <Celestar> planetmaker: this does NOT include shipping, installation and maintenance of cells. 09:15:29 <benjamingoodger> to illustrate my annoyance at celestar insulting me because he doesn't like our universe's physical laws 09:15:31 <planetmaker> [10:18] <benjamingoodger> I'm being sarcastic <-- obviously in lack of arguments ;) 09:15:47 <benjamingoodger> I have plenty of arguments 09:16:07 <Celestar> we're eager to hear them, the count so far is: 0 09:16:07 <Eddi|zuHause> none of which brought you any further in this discussion 09:16:15 <planetmaker> ^^ 09:17:02 <benjamingoodger> my first argument is that space travel is currently a waste of money, one of its sole legitimate applications being energy generation, which is more cost-effective to do on earth 09:17:15 <Celestar> "one of its sole" ... 09:17:18 <Celestar> ENOPARSE 09:17:36 <benjamingoodger> learn to speak english, you will get on better in life 09:17:40 <Brianetta> Celestar: Why not? Most pairs of shoes have two soles... 09:17:48 <petern> "one of its sole" does, indeed, not make sense 09:17:57 <benjamingoodger> "sole" is _not_ a singular-only adjective 09:17:58 <petern> sole is one. one of its one? 09:18:06 * Brianetta has two soles 09:18:13 <benjamingoodger> oh well 09:18:14 <petern> okay, that too :p 09:18:16 * keyweed_ has two souls 09:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> import soul 09:18:34 <benjamingoodger> from soul import trinity 09:18:36 * planetmaker visited Seoul 09:18:40 <Celestar> there are _several_ reasons to go to space 09:18:54 <benjamingoodger> right. reason number 1: show the commies we've got stones 09:19:02 <benjamingoodger> reason number 2: show the chinese we've got stones 09:19:14 <benjamingoodger> reason number 3: pipe-dream energy programmes 09:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the most important reason to use _any_ new technology is to increase its efficiency for the next run 09:19:33 <Brianetta> benjamingoodger: Space travel isn't about energy generation. Ultimately it's about colonisation. This planet will be pretty much full once we hit 30 billion. If we choose to cull ourselves, we're not really making any progress as a species. 09:19:46 <benjamingoodger> reason number 4: futile planetary defence schemes 09:19:50 <Qball> There is one good reason about space travel.. I want my frig*** moon base 09:20:05 <planetmaker> Brianetta: he already announced he'll luckily not contribute to human race's growth. 09:20:13 <Brianetta> Qball: I'd rather have a habitat that isn't down a gravity well. 09:20:20 <Qball> luckely 09:20:29 <Celestar> 1) Survival, 2) Preservation, 3) Growth, 4) Evolution, 5) Vision ... 09:20:30 <benjamingoodger> the forces of nature have, so far, done an excellent job of keeping species in check 09:20:33 <Brianetta> planetmaker: I probably won't in the reproductive sense. 09:20:45 <benjamingoodger> when we run out of food, population growth stops 09:20:45 <planetmaker> he :) 09:20:49 <Qball> I don't care.. I want my moon layer 09:21:14 <benjamingoodger> at that point, the problem is its own solution 09:21:34 <Brianetta> So benjamingoodger believes that our species must remain constrained by our gravity well. That growth is fine until we reach the bounds of our fish tank. 09:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: where do you get the figure of 30 billion from? the last figure i heard is that current food (=engergy) supply would be expected to sustain 12 billion people (if properly distributed) 09:21:55 <benjamingoodger> well, it's the only fish tank we have 09:21:56 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: Physical space, rather than food. 09:22:04 <Brianetta> benjamingoodger: Unles we build more! 09:22:06 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: hydrofarming could extended to about 30 billion. 09:22:16 <Celestar> extend that* 09:22:21 <benjamingoodger> hmm 09:22:22 <planetmaker> [10:25] <benjamingoodger> well, it's the only fish tank we have <-- and it's not a good idea to look for a 2nd one? 09:22:30 <benjamingoodger> sure 09:22:36 <benjamingoodger> just not when we're in a recession 09:22:40 <Brianetta> There's enough metallic material in the solar system to build plenty of orbital habitats 09:22:42 <Celestar> the 2nd one has been staring into our face since 70s 09:22:46 <planetmaker> oh... yeah, sure. 09:22:50 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: exactly WHEN we're in a recession. 09:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> we're always in some kind of recession 09:22:55 <benjamingoodger> as I said at the beginning, we have better things to chuck money at 09:23:07 <Brianetta> Money's an artificial construct. 09:23:08 <petern> like banks and car manufacturers... 09:23:13 <Brianetta> You need to get past that thinking. 09:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean a war in iraq and afghanistan? 09:23:25 <Celestar> yeah. like bailing out incompentent companies like Chrysler and GM? 09:23:27 <planetmaker> yeah... corrupt bankers, inable automobile managers... right. futile wars... 09:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> which is easily costing more than all space programs in the world combined? 09:23:30 <Brianetta> Money's just a means of rationing. 09:23:39 <benjamingoodger> feeding the people we already have, for instance, rather than providing living space for hypothetical off-world people 09:23:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: in one year! 09:23:51 <benjamingoodger> Brianetta: actually, it is not. go look up fiat currency and the banking system 09:23:54 <Brianetta> benjamingoodger: I wouldn't be hypothetical, given the chance. 09:24:02 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: let's see... all space programs in the world combined cost less than GERMANY pays for the military (which is about nothing). 09:24:08 <Brianetta> Just like all the hypothetical European Americans before colonisation. 09:24:26 <planetmaker> :) 09:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 80% of germany's tax money goes into social security systems... 09:24:43 <Brianetta> Like Lex Luthor said. Land. It's the one thing they're not making any more of. 09:24:54 <benjamingoodger> well, actually, we just rounded up all our religious nut-jobs and piled them into a ship 09:24:55 <Celestar> There's also no momentum to solve the energy problem (read: fusion) .. 09:24:55 <Qball> lets ship all criminal to the moon 09:25:01 <Celestar> no no no 09:25:02 <Qball> with or withouth a moonbase 09:25:04 <Celestar> let them stay on earth (= 09:25:17 <Brianetta> I want to play Elite for real (: 09:25:24 <Celestar> oolite? 09:25:27 <benjamingoodger> Celestar: so you want to form a new race of super-humans that excludes the inferior? 09:25:28 <Brianetta> yah 09:25:30 <Qball> withouth moonbase it is 09:25:33 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: not really. 09:25:35 <Brianetta> with the Hoopy Casinos mod 09:25:49 <benjamingoodger> hrrm 09:25:49 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: but the first few hundres of colonists will need to be carefully selected. 09:26:03 <benjamingoodger> yes, yes 09:26:08 <Brianetta> Celestar: nah... just rich enough 09:26:11 <benjamingoodger> while the rest stay on earth to die 09:26:20 <planetmaker> they need to be sufficiently trained. Like earlier you needed able ship crews to sail the atlantic and indic. 09:26:20 <benjamingoodger> only the fittest to be part of the new world order, etc 09:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if you ship all criminals to <remote place>, you'll end up with australia 09:26:26 <Celestar> you wanna die anyway, so what's the problem? 09:26:33 <Brianetta> Australia's not so bad 09:26:38 <benjamingoodger> I thought everyone wanted to die 09:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but we already have that ;) 09:26:48 <Celestar> do they? 09:26:52 <benjamingoodger> I don't necessarily want to die in only sixty-five years 09:26:59 <Celestar> do they want humanity to die ? 09:27:00 <Brianetta> benjamingoodger: Everybody's going to die; that's not to say everybody wants it. 09:27:08 <Qball> I don't wnat to live to 65 09:27:17 <Celestar> Qball: more like 650? 09:27:26 <benjamingoodger> can you honestly say that if you personally became unable to die that you'd be happy? 09:27:33 <Qball> naah 09:27:35 <Brianetta> I'd accept that. 09:27:42 <Qball> a few more years is sufficient 09:27:53 <benjamingoodger> you'd get bored 09:27:54 <Celestar> my happiness has nothing to do with me being immortal or not. 09:27:54 <Qball> then I load myself into the computer 09:28:00 <Brianetta> It would suck to see friends grow old and die, but meh. 09:28:16 <benjamingoodger> I refer you to Bicentennial Man 09:28:36 <planetmaker> nice novel. 09:28:37 <Brianetta> Different psychology. 09:28:41 <Celestar> it's not really unlikely that many of us talking here will live well above 100 years ... 09:28:42 <Brianetta> He wasn't human. 09:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the Q continuum... if humanity is getting immortal, they'll invent more effective means of killing themselves... 09:28:54 <benjamingoodger> he was eventually... 09:28:59 <Brianetta> Legally. 09:29:06 <benjamingoodger> and biologically 09:29:16 <benjamingoodger> and, in software, from the start 09:29:18 <benjamingoodger> that was the whole point 09:29:37 <Brianetta> I think you're confusing fiction with the point. 09:29:53 <benjamingoodger> that was the point of the character 09:30:12 <Brianetta> It was very entertaining, too. I never related to him. 09:30:22 <Celestar> I fail to see the connection to growing old or not? 09:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, you will never have an effective way space travel if you don't invest time and money into developing the ineffective space travel first 09:30:52 <benjamingoodger> _my_ point is that being unable to die would be horrifying 09:31:14 <Celestar> I'm not talking about individual that are unable to die. I'm talking about the species. 09:31:14 <Gekz> lol wtf 09:31:19 <benjamingoodger> living forever would become torturously boring 09:31:24 <Gekz> This is quite offtopic 09:31:25 <planetmaker> ah, the usual red herring argument ;) 09:31:27 <Gekz> Celestar: BAD OP 09:31:36 <benjamingoodger> well, clearly the species has to die as well 09:31:47 <Gekz> can I kill you all? 09:31:53 <Gekz> I suppose that would be a crime >_> 09:32:00 <benjamingoodger> technically, it would, yes 09:32:04 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: does it have to? why? 09:32:11 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: why 'clearly'? 09:32:17 <planetmaker> why at all? 09:32:22 <benjamingoodger> every species has to die eventually, to be replaced by a superior species that it evolved into 09:32:34 <Celestar> that's not dying? that's evolving. 09:32:41 <DASPRiD> btw, we don't need to travel to other planets, planetmaker will make us a new one 09:32:49 <planetmaker> no 09:32:54 <Celestar> DASPRiD: which will be quite a bit AWAY 09:32:54 <Gekz> Who wants some stockings 09:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> humanity getting (near) immortal will effectively slow down the evolutionary cycles, so eventually the evolution of other species will surpass the one of humanity, and they're going to be left behind 09:33:02 <Celestar> you can'T put them in Earth's orbit. 09:33:03 <planetmaker> I will tell you how long to wait for a new one and where to look :) 09:33:13 <DASPRiD> Celestar, but you could replace earth with it :) 09:33:27 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause: as long as they care for us 09:33:41 <benjamingoodger> Gekz: feeding time! 09:33:45 <Celestar> DASPRiD: there's by far not enough non-planetary material in the solar system to make another Earth-sized planet. 09:33:56 <benjamingoodger> Celestar: try venus 09:34:06 <benjamingoodger> it's very nearly the same size and density 09:34:07 <Celestar> "non planetary". 09:34:13 <Celestar> when last I looked, it was a planet. 09:34:21 <benjamingoodger> no, I mean you don't need to make another planet ¬.¬ 09:34:28 <DASPRiD> Celestar, we could start with a tiny one 09:34:36 <Celestar> we have Mars. right 09:34:41 <Celestar> much easier to colonize 09:34:48 <DASPRiD> mars is smaller than earth :/ 09:34:53 <benjamingoodger> frankly, mars is boring IMO 09:35:02 <benjamingoodger> CO2 atmosphere, rapidly leaking into space 09:35:07 <benjamingoodger> solid core 09:35:11 <DASPRiD> or how about mirror-erth? just hard to reach ;) 09:35:24 <Celestar> DASPRiD: unstable. 09:35:26 <benjamingoodger> low temperature, iron-rich but not much else 09:35:41 <Celestar> if you mean one in the L3 point. 09:35:41 <DASPRiD> Celestar, yeah i know the physics facts that a mirror earth is not possible :P 09:35:46 <benjamingoodger> you just need to breed plants that can survive at 400 degrees and dump them on venus, and wait for them to produce an oxygen atmosphere 09:35:49 <DASPRiD> Celestar, correct 09:36:01 <Celestar> DASPRiD: a smallish one would be possible. 09:36:20 <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: sure. Much easier than having lichen survive on 10 mbar CO2 atmosphere... 09:36:37 <DASPRiD> Celestar, so lets send our moon there 09:36:38 <DASPRiD> :) 09:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: and then wait 4 billion years for terraforming to kick in? 09:37:09 <DASPRiD> Eddi|zuHause, we have time ;> 09:37:14 <benjamingoodger> meh, plants on venus or lichen on mars, they'll both take the same time 09:37:24 <benjamingoodger> I just think venus is more interesting 09:37:50 <Celestar> I thought you wanted neither?! 09:38:19 <planetmaker> I guess he wants an example where he can say 'impossible'. 09:38:32 <benjamingoodger> I don't want either 09:38:32 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:35 <Celestar> planets could basically grow on Mars now. 09:38:39 <benjamingoodger> it's a waste of my money at this time 09:38:54 <Celestar> it's a waste of money subsidising wind power plants. 09:39:01 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:39:01 <benjamingoodger> I want clean energy using existing terrestrial technology 09:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> even if you could plant some kind of stable lifecycle into venus, it can't ever be water based (for physical reasons), and thus never possible to sustain human life 09:39:14 <benjamingoodger> I want socialised healthcare that doesn't kill you in hospital 09:39:17 <planetmaker> yep. Get a chimney and chop down some trees. 09:39:28 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: it could. put the human colonies underground. 09:39:37 <benjamingoodger> I want an education system that brings out the best in every student 09:39:39 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: we HAVE socialised healthcare. 09:39:56 <benjamingoodger> Celestar: not worldwide 09:40:20 <benjamingoodger> also, the UK's socialised healthcare system is appalling 09:40:24 <planetmaker> then let those people sort it out in the countries who don't have. It's their governement. Not ours. People choose their government. 09:40:30 <benjamingoodger> I imagine the german system is far better 09:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't even have worldwide food distribution, how do you expect that to work with health systems? 09:40:47 <benjamingoodger> actually, most people don't choose their government 09:41:21 <benjamingoodger> their government is chosen by the people with the most guns, or petrodollars, or the most charismatic method of reading the koran 09:41:30 <benjamingoodger> or the bible... 09:41:30 <planetmaker> you want to force their luck onto them? Look at Iraq and Afghanistan and think again. 09:41:37 <benjamingoodger> no, I do not 09:41:48 <planetmaker> so... what's the point then? 09:41:49 <benjamingoodger> and we both know that those wars weren't about democracy 09:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> every people gets the government they deserve 09:41:59 <benjamingoodger> there's no point, it's a side issue 09:42:25 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: I'd like to believe you don't really mean that 09:42:43 <planetmaker> it's true to some degree. 09:43:01 <planetmaker> Are you willing to become in volved in politics, benjamingoodger ? 09:43:06 <planetmaker> Are you willing to run as PM? 09:43:14 <planetmaker> No? Well, then... 09:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't think you deserve your government, there is _ALWAYS_ a way to get involved to change it 09:43:33 <Celestar> Are you willing to be involved in anything outside your own home? 09:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> even in dictatorships 09:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> dictators do need personell to support them 09:43:44 <benjamingoodger> the point is that we have problems that can't be solved with space exploration, and other problems that can be solved with far cheaper and easier methods than methods involving space exploration 09:44:03 <Celestar> most dicatatorships didn't step aside, they were thrown over. By people who care. 09:44:04 <benjamingoodger> I am willing to run for prime minister, yes. I have even prepared a lengthy manifesto that I don't currently have on this machine 09:45:10 <benjamingoodger> but if you are a woman with children, living in afghanistan, then you have no choice in your government --- it is decided by which of the local islamo-fascists (I hate using that term, it makes me sound like a Daily Mail reader) has the biggest munitions budget 09:45:41 <planetmaker> you always have a choice. 09:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so what? there are also means to improve your own munitions budget 09:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if that's what it takes to change the government 09:46:15 <benjamingoodger> *shakes head sadly* 09:47:02 <planetmaker> Mostly there's no "I want it all and I want it now" way though. 09:48:02 <planetmaker> you need to convince other people of your view. 09:48:13 <benjamingoodger> hmm 09:48:24 <benjamingoodger> I think the aforementioned afghanistani women have tried that 09:48:28 <planetmaker> and then even a woman in Afganistan _can_ do things. Remember Butho in Pakistan? 09:48:30 <benjamingoodger> it usually results in stonings. 09:48:50 <benjamingoodger> unfortunately, I will never be elected for prime minister, because the UK's ludicrous two-party system will never elect anyone but Labour or the Tories, and I'd sell both my lungs to raise money for neo-nazis before joining either of those parties 09:49:43 <planetmaker> so you're not really willing to stand up for your opinion and try to convince people? 09:49:53 <benjamingoodger> oh, sure I am 09:49:58 <planetmaker> (the latter is the important part) 09:50:16 <benjamingoodger> it's just that, as I'm not a moron, I know that few will listen to me and fewer will agree 09:50:44 <planetmaker> then you must believe that your idea is not very convincing ;) 09:50:51 <Celestar> hm .. 09:50:55 <benjamingoodger> it's not very convincing, no 09:51:08 <benjamingoodger> good ideas usually aren't, that's why democracy is so flawed 09:51:08 <Celestar> I like the idea of floating cities on Venus :) 09:51:21 <planetmaker> so... either all other people are stupid or your idea isn't that good after all :) 09:51:25 <benjamingoodger> floating on what? 09:51:37 <benjamingoodger> actually, the former is statistically correct 09:52:12 <benjamingoodger> people with an IQ of <110 or so are known to be incapable of making rational political decisions 09:52:27 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: on the exceedingly dense atmosphere. 09:52:34 <benjamingoodger> ah 09:52:41 <Celestar> all you need is a large cushion filled with Nitrogen. 09:52:45 <benjamingoodger> breathing what, then? 09:52:53 <Celestar> er ... oxygen? 09:53:00 <benjamingoodger> generated by? 09:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a secondary problem to provide an internal atmosphere :) 09:53:07 <Celestar> by photosynthesis? 09:53:09 <planetmaker> CO2 -> C + O2? 09:53:21 <benjamingoodger> planetmaker: that's not even close 09:53:23 <Celestar> there is PLENTY of CO2 on Venus. 09:53:55 <benjamingoodger> so, in fact, you like the idea of a floating suburbia on venus :) 09:53:59 <china> im thinking about building another solar robot 09:54:03 <china> the cats will love it 09:54:05 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-19.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 09:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> synthetic photosynthesis would be cool 09:54:14 <benjamingoodger> yes 09:54:22 *** Rexxie [~rexxars@85.19.218.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:25 <benjamingoodger> unfortunately, if we knew how to do that, we wouldn't have an energy shortage 09:54:56 <Celestar> in an altitude of 50km, Venus has a pressure of about 1 bar and a temperature of around 300K 09:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes you think that? even if we could do it, it'd take colossal amounts of energy to begin with 09:55:03 <planetmaker> we have sufficient technology. It's only not applied to its fullest extend. 09:55:10 <china> Eddi|zuHause> synthetic photosynthesis would be cool 09:55:18 <china> oh, sorry 09:55:18 <planetmaker> ... in order to provide sustainable energy. 09:55:22 <china> i was about to write: yes indeed. 09:55:35 <china> actually, i have constructed a planting robot, speaking of wich 09:55:40 <Celestar> and air is a lifting gas on Venus. 09:55:55 <benjamingoodger> I am aware of the basic principles of displacement 09:56:01 <china> it doesnt really have anything to do with the photosynthesis, though its.. well, a big project. 09:56:05 <benjamingoodger> I'm not eight 09:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: well, basically, you'd build a city within a giant balloon 09:57:23 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: more on top of it, but yeah, that's the basic idea. 09:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> just that the outer hull of the ballon must be able to sustain sulphuric acid ;) 09:57:54 <planetmaker> :P 09:57:55 <china> i need to read up on synthesis. 09:57:58 <benjamingoodger> oh, yeah, I forgot about the H2SO4 09:58:09 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: and? 09:58:22 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: any decent rubber can sustain that ... 09:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing and... just wanted to point that out ;) 09:59:00 <Celestar> ;) 09:59:23 <china> http://fac.dndr.se/poo/Bilder/?page=konstruktion 09:59:31 <china> excluding the missile drawings. 09:59:39 <Celestar> we could use a similar technology on Saturn. An automated, floating plant that extracts He-3 and H-2 from the atmosphere. 09:59:57 <planetmaker> You would probably go to Enceladus or Europa. 10:00:02 <planetmaker> IF you go that far. 10:00:05 <benjamingoodger> china: start with 6CO2 + 12H2O -> C6H12O6 + 9O2 ... I think 10:00:17 <china> benjamingoodger: wait what. 10:00:18 <Celestar> planetmaker: for the He-3 and H-2 ? 10:00:21 *** Rexxie [~rexxars@85.19.218.49] has joined #openttd 10:00:25 <planetmaker> Celestar: for water ;) 10:00:30 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28E276.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:00:35 <china> benjamingoodger: i have no idea what you just said. 10:00:36 <Celestar> planetmaker: I want fusion fuel, not water :D 10:00:43 <benjamingoodger> china: I think that's the formula for photosynthesis... 10:00:45 <DASPRiD> probably we should try to terraform the moon as a testcase ;P 10:00:52 <Qball> hmm 10:00:57 <benjamingoodger> carbon dioxide + water -> glucose + oxygen 10:01:02 <planetmaker> Helium is scarce on any minor body. But you might still strip it of Saturn itself. 10:01:02 <Celestar> DASPRiD: difficult, it can't hold any reasonable atmosphere. 10:01:04 <benjamingoodger> not sure about the multipliers 10:01:13 <china> benjamingoodger: aha. well, now you know much i know. :D i need to re-read it, study it from a basic scholar lever, so to speak. 10:01:23 <DASPRiD> Celestar, well, at least some paraterraforming 10:01:26 <benjamingoodger> ah 10:01:39 <china> now you know how much i know* 10:01:43 <benjamingoodger> it's poorly understood, hence the lack of artificial implementations 10:02:01 <china> does artificial photosyntesis exist? 10:02:10 <benjamingoodger> not...usefully 10:02:13 <benjamingoodger> at this stage. 10:02:14 <china> ok 10:02:19 <benjamingoodger> regrettably 10:02:20 <Celestar> benjamingoodger: it's not poorly understood, just our means to do it artificially are not efficient enough. 10:02:43 <benjamingoodger> that makes it poorly understood by my book 10:02:58 <DASPRiD> Celestar, i really wonder, at current state of technology, para-terraforming of the moon would be possible 10:03:03 <china> the robot im building doesnt really have anything with the artifical photosynthesis to do. though the idea comes from nasa, where theyre actually trying to build an fully automated planting robot 10:03:17 <china> where the ideas come together.. of some sort 10:03:23 <benjamingoodger> wouldn't that be fairly simple? 10:03:28 * china realizes he doesnt have that much to contribute 10:03:28 <planetmaker> DASPRiD: you'd basically need to build habitats. 10:03:36 <Celestar> DASPRiD: yes of course 10:03:37 <planetmaker> Probably build caves and seal the surface. 10:03:40 <DASPRiD> planetmaker, that is meant by that 10:03:43 <china> well, yes. but still, its a fun project for a technician like me. 10:03:43 <Celestar> it's been possible since the 70s 10:03:45 <benjamingoodger> dig hole, deposit seed, cover hole, irrigate 10:03:57 <FauxFaux> Story of my life. 10:04:00 <benjamingoodger> heh 10:04:12 <Celestar> if some idiot hadn't decided to build the stupid shuttle, we'd have moon habitats by now 10:04:14 <china> benjamingoodger: well, that part is coverd, yes. though, there are still issues about recognizing a good from a bad seed/plant/soil. 10:04:16 <benjamingoodger> I bet I can design an apparatus to do that, however, without the age of microchips 10:04:22 <DASPRiD> Celestar, ? :x 10:04:26 <benjamingoodger> *aid 10:04:27 <benjamingoodger> hmm 10:04:28 <china> and using that for "eternity" in a space ship without maintainance. 10:04:49 <benjamingoodger> we don't use a seed-by-seed quality control system on earth 10:04:54 <benjamingoodger> is it vital to do so in space? 10:04:58 <china> maybe 10:05:13 <benjamingoodger> hmmmm 10:05:16 <china> depends on what quality a geen based seed may be when used. 10:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> china: "Die guten ins Töpfchen, die schlechten ins Kröpfchen" 10:05:25 <benjamingoodger> *strokes proto-beard* 10:05:27 <china> Eddi|zuHause: excuse me? 10:05:30 <china> benjamingoodger: :) 10:05:54 <china> benjamingoodger: im building my own here in my house, and so far i have just "pre-invented" the automation process. 10:05:57 <DASPRiD> Celestar, i wonder how good the ping from moon to earth is... still playable? 10:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> china: it's part of the fairy tale "Aschenputtel" [Cinderella] 10:06:18 <benjamingoodger> DASPRiD: nope :( 10:06:25 <china> Eddi|zuHause: ah, ok. 10:06:30 <Celestar> DASPRiD: well, only counting the signal time it's around 2400ms 10:06:39 <DASPRiD> hm, that sucks for online gaming 10:06:45 <DASPRiD> they have to find a solution for that 10:06:49 <china> Eddi|zuHause: relevance? 10:06:53 <Qball> gives in game lag a new meaning 10:06:57 <Celestar> er ... subspace communication? 10:07:01 <benjamingoodger> DASPRiD: you can increase the speed of light if you like 10:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> china: it's about sorting the good peas from the bad peas ;) 10:07:13 <DASPRiD> Celestar, how'd be the ping then? 10:07:20 <china> benjamingoodger: the thing is, i know a helluva lot about robotics. though, my knowledge now ends at the chemistry and life processing ..stuff 10:07:20 <Celestar> ask LaForge 10:07:24 <china> that i really need to study. 10:07:28 <china> Eddi|zuHause: ah. :-) 10:07:45 <china> well, thats actually the big issue in automated growth. 10:07:57 <benjamingoodger> china: you are to be congratulated, I wish I knew much about robotics 10:08:03 <china> you -can- make a perfect pea, and the cover the gene and chemistry index 10:08:37 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:08:45 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 10:08:48 <china> though, the definition of the perfect pea -after 10 000 000 geneations of growth- is yet to be seen. 10:08:52 <DASPRiD> benjamingoodger, irc bots are robots as well, so you surely also know a bit about robotics ;) 10:09:19 <china> "the monkey and humanity" is a well knows phrase (in swedish) for this problem. 10:09:24 <benjamingoodger> DASPRiD: actually, I know absolutely nothing about irc bots, beyond what knowledge I have reverse-engineered from using them 10:09:34 <china> and as far as the study goes, the pea and the monkey-human issue is a NP problem. 10:09:37 <DASPRiD> oh, hehe 10:09:50 <china> benjamingoodger: oh, you create eggdrops? :) 10:10:00 <benjamingoodger> *blink* 10:10:07 <DASPRiD> i coded my own irc bot \o/ 10:10:07 <benjamingoodger> I have absolutely no idea what you just said 10:10:12 <china> oh, ok 10:10:14 <china> never mind. 10:10:21 <benjamingoodger> it would probably make more sense in swedish 10:10:25 <china> we actually used a megahal code for a speech robot 10:10:37 *** Zorni [zorn@e177238211.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:05 * china spends his free time building missiles and solar driven cat toys 10:11:17 <benjamingoodger> yes... so you've said 10:11:17 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81371.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:11:23 <benjamingoodger> ... 10:11:25 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 10:11:27 <china> -_- 10:12:22 <DASPRiD> ^___^ 10:12:29 <china> \o 10:12:41 <china> btw, i must ask: what is really the main discussion in this channel 10:12:48 <DASPRiD> world and stuff 10:12:50 <china> regarding openttd; the programming or just the game? 10:13:11 <benjamingoodger> mostly the latter from what I can tell. most of the development seems to happen in the forum 10:13:25 <planetmaker> china: both ;) 10:13:44 <china> oh. 10:14:03 * china simply enjoys trains. 10:14:05 <china> -s 10:14:11 <benjamingoodger> +s 10:14:23 <china> really? 10:14:23 <benjamingoodger> that sentence was grammatically correct... 10:14:26 <china> oh 10:14:40 <china> fantabulous 10:14:52 <benjamingoodger> technically, you were in the third person, because of the usage of the noun rather than "I", despite talking about yourself 10:15:05 <benjamingoodger> stupid english language... *mutters* 10:16:06 <china> stupid autocad electrical 10:17:24 <benjamingoodger> quite. 10:17:24 <china> -550MB disc space - yey! 10:17:33 * Celestar prefers CATIA 10:17:52 *** Zorn [zorn@e177113008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:57 <benjamingoodger> that's "disk", when talking about hard disks (but not compact discs), since you seem to be interested in improving your english 10:18:07 <benjamingoodger> and is that negative? 10:18:08 <china> once payed for (!): mechanical+electrical+inventor is great, at least for my needs. 10:18:40 <china> benjamingoodger: yes, negative space. and thank you. one tries. 10:18:54 <china> and i still need to fix the `ÂŽ'^š 10:19:05 <china> but thats a rather irrelevant thing on IRC. 10:19:06 <planetmaker> eh... disc is as valid as disk. 10:19:24 <china> i used "disc" since its a direct translation of the swedish word and meaning. 10:19:34 <benjamingoodger> the convention is "disk" when talking about hard disks, since these are not discs 10:19:47 <china> wait 10:19:48 <benjamingoodger> and "disc" in british english, when talking about disc-shaped objects 10:20:08 <china> isnt that why we used "disc" in the first place? 10:20:22 <planetmaker> interesting. 10:20:28 <china> the swedish word for the HDD is "disk", just because "disk" refers to the disc shaped object. 10:20:32 <planetmaker> didn't know _that_ differentiation. 10:21:00 <china> all though, im not in the position to argument language. 10:21:01 <china> :> 10:21:08 <benjamingoodger> china: that'll be US English then... they have "disk" for disc-shaped objects 10:21:13 <benjamingoodger> *although 10:21:21 <china> and i have to excuse myself, since thats something you people (yes you) take more serious the others on IRC. 10:21:22 <benjamingoodger> (tell me to stop correcting you when it becomes annoying) 10:21:36 <benjamingoodger> excuse me, my cat wants attention 10:21:51 * china gives benjamingoodger one of his homemade cat toys 10:22:15 <benjamingoodger> spotty doesn't seem to like toys 10:22:43 <china> http://fac.dndr.se/poo/Bilder/djur/SL274681.JPG 10:22:47 <china> highly crimical brothers. 10:23:09 <benjamingoodger> he just likes food, sleep and slow-moving rodents, and for some reason, for me to stroke him on the head constantly 10:23:10 <benjamingoodger> aww, sweet 10:23:21 <benjamingoodger> http://www.catswhothrowupgrass.com/kill.php 10:23:29 <china> they are six months by now 10:23:46 <china> epic site. 10:23:53 <benjamingoodger> eh, quite 10:24:23 <benjamingoodger> it's interesting how humans find other species' babies "cute" 10:24:40 <benjamingoodger> chimpanzees, which of course are our nearest relatives, find other species' babies to be a tasty meal 10:25:06 <SpComb> but we do horrible things to our food before eating it 10:25:19 <benjamingoodger> yes, but those are all adults 10:25:22 <china> :o 10:25:24 <benjamingoodger> mostly 10:25:51 <china> time to make some food 10:25:52 <benjamingoodger> and we don't eat species that continue looking like human babies, such as cats, small rodents and most dogs 10:26:02 <petern> "most of the development seems to happen in the forum" < hehe, you have no idea 10:26:06 <china> by the way, english uses "sambo", right? 10:26:14 <benjamingoodger> what? 10:26:14 <davis-> :o 10:26:25 <china> :O 10:26:41 <davis-> :0 10:26:42 <benjamingoodger> you may be introducing me to words in my own language that I don't know 10:26:51 <benjamingoodger> if you are, please stop, as it frightens me :P 10:26:54 <china> haha :D 10:27:07 <petern> racial term? never heard of it 10:27:21 <petern> "Sambo is a racial term for a person with mixed Amerindian and African heritage in the Caribbean, also for a black or South Asian person in the United States and the United Kingdom. It is considered a racial slur in the U.S. and the UK, but not in the Caribbean." 10:27:32 <benjamingoodger> ah... 10:27:41 <benjamingoodger> that explains why I've never heard of it 10:27:47 <benjamingoodger> there are no black people here 10:28:34 <petern> right 10:28:43 <petern> do i bother beating my current car insurance people up 10:28:46 <petern> or do i just switch 10:28:57 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 10:29:08 <benjamingoodger> to what degree will openttd development suffer, if you are incarcerated for assault? 10:29:13 <petern> none 10:29:25 <benjamingoodger> in that case, beat the bastards to death 10:29:36 <petern> however, beating them up would mostly involve trying to convince them to lower their quote 10:29:49 <petern> quite fruitless, i suspect 10:30:00 <benjamingoodger> hmm 10:30:09 <benjamingoodger> how much is the quote? and to insure what? against what? 10:30:26 <petern> car insurance, as i said 10:30:33 <benjamingoodger> ah yes 10:30:40 <petern> they quoted £560 10:30:50 <benjamingoodger> that's better than mine... 10:30:50 <petern> i've got another quote for £290 10:31:11 <petern> at that difference, customer loyalty can be forgotten... 10:31:21 <benjamingoodger> quite 10:31:23 <benjamingoodger> what's the car? 10:31:35 <petern> 1.8 citroen xantia 10:31:47 <petern> not exactly known for being a performance beast 10:31:50 <benjamingoodger> quite 10:31:52 <petern> however 10:31:57 <petern> i did get one quote for £1300... 10:32:01 <benjamingoodger> I have a 1.6 nissan primera 10:32:07 <benjamingoodger> the best quote is for £950 10:32:23 <benjamingoodger> and that's with me as a named driver, with my parents as primary policyholders 10:32:30 <petern> heh 10:32:43 <petern> my first car cost £400 to insure 10:32:43 <benjamingoodger> it's infuriating 10:32:55 <petern> 0.9 fiat uno :D 10:33:01 <benjamingoodger> *shudder* 10:33:12 <petern> it was cheap, that was the point 10:33:16 <benjamingoodger> ah 10:33:27 <benjamingoodger> well, my primera is hardly a speed-machine already 10:33:29 <petern> cheap car with cheap insurance to build up the no claims 10:33:32 <benjamingoodger> in fact, it's severely underpowered 10:33:56 <Celestar> http://www.qdb.us/262095 10:33:57 <davis-> sex 10:34:00 <Celestar> bahahah 10:34:05 <petern> some policies give ncb to named drivers these days 10:34:12 <benjamingoodger> but I have to pay stupid money to insure it just because I'm eighteen... it's maddening 10:34:32 <davis-> lol Celestar 10:34:41 <benjamingoodger> heheh, good one 10:34:47 <petern> the £400 was when i was 18 10:35:04 * benjamingoodger cannot think of the insurance price when he gets his new car next year... 10:35:28 <china> bah 10:35:32 <china> not to be modest 10:35:32 <china> but 10:35:36 <davis-> anyone here plays guitar? //offtopic 10:35:47 <china> im unemployed, but definetly feel confident on the rest of my life 10:35:52 <china> building robots and plying jazz. 10:35:55 <china> +a 10:35:57 <benjamingoodger> :) 10:36:04 * china np: michael bublé - feeling good 10:36:12 *** china is now known as appe 10:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> davis-: Brianetta does 10:36:37 <davis-> alright thanks 10:36:40 <petern> i played a guitar once 10:36:41 <Rubidium> you want to say that the rest of the "talking" wasn't off topic? 10:36:46 <petern> once or twice 10:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... Belugas i meant 10:37:15 <benjamingoodger> I'm unemployed, but I'm heading for a master's degree in business administration, and am also starting a publishing company and a charitable organisation producing creative-commons literature, and am also writing a novel. and I'm extremely insecure about the rest of my life, leading to huge depression 10:37:27 <benjamingoodger> modesty pah! 10:37:29 <davis-> tmi 10:37:38 <appe> ah 10:37:40 <appe> itl work out 10:37:46 <appe> just keep yourself busy 10:38:01 <benjamingoodger> how could I possibly be any more busy? 10:38:02 <benjamingoodger> :P 10:38:09 <petern> ah, about to waste several years of your life studying 10:38:23 <benjamingoodger> yes 10:38:25 <benjamingoodger> yes I am 10:38:27 <appe> im trying to do as much as i can of my time, building, repairing instruments and robots (im collecting older claviatures), starting my own business, making music, entertaining my girl 10:38:35 <appe> study is never a waste 10:38:38 <appe> -never- 10:38:44 <benjamingoodger> it is when you're doing an MBA 10:38:46 <appe> as long as you want to, at least. 10:38:49 <appe> mba? 10:38:56 <benjamingoodger> master's in business administration 10:39:02 <davis-> iam in year 12 out of 13 and ive less lessons than in year 5 10:39:06 <davis-> hail the education system 10:39:20 <benjamingoodger> davis-: further education woop 10:39:23 <appe> o' lord. 10:39:30 <benjamingoodger> the only point of doing an MBA is to put the letters "MBA" on your CV 10:39:38 <davis-> :P 10:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 13 years of school... you poor child 10:39:46 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 10:39:51 <davis-> haha "abitur" :P 10:39:56 <benjamingoodger> I'm in my fourteenth 10:40:11 <petern> business administration sounds like a jumped name for receptionist, to me :p 10:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well... we were intelligent enough to do it in 12 ;) 10:40:19 <benjamingoodger> nope 10:40:30 <davis-> times change Eddi 10:40:31 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but your country has a competent education system 10:40:37 <davis-> iam not the one to blame :P 10:40:48 <benjamingoodger> the British education system exists solely to prepare people for university 10:41:02 <benjamingoodger> which, in turn, exists solely to make people more employable 10:41:10 <benjamingoodger> we learn nothing of any use, it's all CV-mongering 10:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you think that is different in germany? 10:41:36 * appe does live on the university, but doesnt study 10:41:40 <appe> im not yet 22, so. 10:41:49 <davis-> lol 10:41:53 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: I don't know, I just presumed it couldn't possibly be worse than GB 10:42:06 <davis-> german education system is kind of a mess 10:42:08 <benjamingoodger> the real reason I'm going to university is to try and overcome my various social problems, and also so I can move to kent 10:42:43 <davis-> :] 10:43:19 <petern> grrrrrrrrrrr 10:43:33 <benjamingoodger> I'd go to sweden to university, but I fear living in a country whose language I don't speak 10:43:39 <appe> you know what? there is a thing thats so good about robotics and jazz 10:43:44 <appe> and it's espresso. 10:43:49 <davis-> petern took bull hormone's 10:43:54 <appe> it's a must for both parts. :) 10:43:56 <davis-> :3 10:44:20 <petern> davi's? 10:44:23 <benjamingoodger> I am aware that practically all swedes speak excellent english, but I would be extremely offended if I was a swede who had to deal with presumptuous englishmen all the time 10:44:30 <davis-> nvm :] 10:44:50 <appe> benjamingoodger: im swedish, and my english is above average. still i have trouble with the spelling and stuff. 10:45:07 <appe> or well, my language is good, i even do dialect. though the spelling is ..something else. 10:45:07 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad51a6f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:10 <appe> :-< 10:45:25 <appe> but yes, i like the fact that english is a big thing here 10:45:36 <appe> and practically nobody feels offended by "not using swedish" in everything 10:45:41 <appe> like the germans seem to. 10:45:46 <benjamingoodger> yeah 10:45:52 * appe notes "seem to" to not offend anyone. 10:46:25 <benjamingoodger> but if I went over there with no knowledge of the language, and just presumed you'd all speak english for me, you'd be at least a little offended? 10:46:26 <Rubidium> mai ingrish iz alzo abov wold avridge ;) 10:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> germans get especially offended when people use "fancy" english words when there would be perfectly fine german words for the object 10:46:47 <appe> Rubidium: ;) 10:46:52 <benjamingoodger> :) 10:46:54 <petern> avrij 10:47:00 <benjamingoodger> better 10:47:10 <appe> im not blaming them, it's just that our language aint that big of a deal for us, i guess 10:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: considering that at most 1/6th of the world population even learned english ;) 10:47:26 <benjamingoodger> appe: I refer you to my above statement, which you may have missed 10:47:47 <appe> benjamingoodger: no, not at all 10:48:11 <appe> as far as i know, most swedes speak good english, and knows about the fact that most other people don't know swedish. 10:48:14 <appe> any, at all. 10:48:31 <benjamingoodger> yes, but surely if I came over there to live 10:48:32 <benjamingoodger> and made no effort to integrate? 10:48:42 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81371.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> german is the most spoken mother language in europe ;) 10:49:00 <appe> benjamingoodger: as an englishman, no problem. 10:49:08 <Rubidium> then I'm not in the "most other people" group ;) 10:49:10 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 10:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'd say about twice as english) 10:49:29 <appe> benjamingoodger: as said, english is so well integrated. the people you would have trouble with is the older generation, if so. 10:49:45 <petern> benjamingoodger, did you happen to see the newsnight special just after obama was elected? 10:49:46 <benjamingoodger> I'm not saying it would cause problems with communication 10:50:14 <appe> benjamingoodger: me neither. i dont think people would feel offended by you talking the second most used language 10:50:17 <benjamingoodger> petern: no, unfortunately I could only stay up watching the live footage on bbc 1 until he won california, and then collapsed 10:50:24 <benjamingoodger> hmm 10:50:31 <appe> swedes would be more offended by other swedes not talking any english at all. 10:50:32 <petern> benjamingoodger, it was the next day, mid-evening... 10:50:34 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B813C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:50:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:50:37 <benjamingoodger> ah 10:50:39 <Rubidium> appe: that really depends on the situation 10:50:40 <benjamingoodger> no, didn't see that 10:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> winning california? isn't that a) clear from the start, and b) when the really interesting part is already over= 10:51:06 <benjamingoodger> precisely 10:51:07 <petern> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM1XrVVVBAk 10:51:10 <petern> watch and cringe... 10:51:14 <benjamingoodger> that's why I went to bed after confirming it for myself 10:51:16 <Rubidium> if the staff of a Dutch supermarket start talking in German to me then that can be experienced as offending 10:51:19 <benjamingoodger> cheers petern 10:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> are there so many germans shopping in the netherlands that this really happens? 10:52:46 <davis-> for frikandeln 10:53:42 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, especially at the coast in the vacation 10:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i don't understand a word he's saying 10:53:51 <benjamingoodger> appe: when english people move to spain, for the cheap alcohol and the sunshine, they typically move to a town populated entirely by english people, do not bother learning spanish, and continue watching British television that they import via satellite 10:54:07 <benjamingoodger> this is considered to be distasteful 10:54:13 <Rubidium> though at the border with Germany the Germans come by the thousands getting coffee ;) 10:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> err... yes, of course :p 10:55:15 <benjamingoodger> similarly, when people from various places in asia move to great britain, there is a perception that they do not bother to learn english, interface only with existing asians, etc 10:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and behind the border the police is collecting the coffee again ;) 10:55:20 <benjamingoodger> and this is also considered problematic 10:56:09 <benjamingoodger> so I would consider myself to be offending sweden if I moved to sweden with no knowledge of the language and little of the culture and way of life, and just carried on as I had done in england 10:56:30 <Rubidium> hmm... Eddi's assuming the wrong coffee I guess ;) 10:56:59 <petern> benjamingoodger, yeah, but it's racist to complain about our immigrants.. 10:58:03 <Rubidium> anyhow, in the supermarket here about half of the coffee is coffee with german labels on it 10:58:18 <Rubidium> but I don't really care about that because I don't drink it anyways 10:58:21 <benjamingoodger> hence the use of the _extremely_ non-committal "perception" 10:58:22 <benjamingoodger> since I haven't seen anyone with non-white skin for months, except for the Nepalese guy in my accounting class who speaks excellent english, I can't vouch 10:58:57 <petern> where i live there's a "high" population of asian people 10:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of chinese students increased dramatically here 11:00:15 <petern> heh, notable residents... germaine lindsay, one of the london suicide bombers 11:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ha ha :p 11:00:35 <ln> it's alright to live in sweden and not to integrate with the rest of the society, not to follow their rules. 11:00:54 <benjamingoodger> oh, I forgot the endless chinese students, muttering to themselves, never speaking to anyone but each other 11:01:08 <benjamingoodger> but it's racist to complain about them. 11:01:41 <Rubidium> of the psychology students at my university over half is German 11:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a wonder, psychology was invented by germans ;) 11:02:27 <benjamingoodger> well, I suppose german psychologists have to learn somewhere 11:03:13 <DASPRiD> yeah we germans are nice people :XY 11:03:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and because of that they study it abroad? 11:04:01 <benjamingoodger> nah, that's just residual cruelty 11:05:25 <Brianetta> Last time I was in Germany, I was impressed by the willingness of the average German to at least try to meet me half way when I ran out of German. 11:05:38 <benjamingoodger> everyone on earth does that 11:06:14 <Brianetta> The French weren't like that at all... they loved to see the Englishman squirm. 11:06:18 <benjamingoodger> we can communicate a frankly shocking about of data without the use of comprehensible words 11:06:25 <benjamingoodger> oh, yes, the french... 11:06:35 <ln> in Malmö (a swedish city) there are certain areas where ambulances refuse to go without being accompanied by police. 11:06:52 <Brianetta> Malmö isn't a city. It's a piece of Ikea furniture. Duh. 11:06:59 <benjamingoodger> :D 11:07:01 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:07:19 <ln> right 11:07:29 <Brianetta> Ikea. It's Swedish for Ikea. 11:07:35 <Gekz> Brianetta: lol. 11:07:45 <benjamingoodger> eh? 11:07:48 <Gekz> it seems if you live in Scandinavia, you live in Malmoe 11:07:58 <Gekz> I only ever hear of this place. 11:08:20 <Brianetta> Surely you've heard of Hell? 11:08:25 <benjamingoodger> if you immigrate to scandinavia from somewhere really backward, rather, you go to malmo 11:08:46 <Brianetta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway 11:08:56 <Gekz> i've heard of Hell. 11:09:02 <Gekz> I'm going to learn Swedish one day 11:09:08 <Gekz> then go there for a while and ask myself 11:09:11 <benjamingoodger> heh 11:09:14 <Gekz> wtf possessed me to go to Sweden 11:09:22 <Gekz> then go to France and ask the same question 11:09:23 <Gekz> then go home 11:09:29 <Brianetta> Sweden is full of extremely fit females. 11:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd think swedish should be really easy if you know english and german 11:10:09 <Gekz> I'm studying German 11:10:14 <Gekz> and Swedish looks far easier than German 11:10:45 <Aali> actually, swedish is supposedly quite hard to learn 11:10:55 <benjamingoodger> can't be as hard as finnish.. 11:11:06 <Aali> well, finnish isn't a language 11:11:06 <petern> borkborkbork 11:11:09 <Aali> its just gibberish 11:11:17 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 11:11:40 <Brianetta> Aali: Levan Polka by Loituma tell you that? 11:11:56 <Brianetta> The bit that was used for th eleek twirling meme was indeed gibberish 11:12:36 <Gekz> haha Finnish 11:12:46 <Gekz> piraattipuolue 11:12:50 <Gekz> Pirate Party. 11:12:58 <benjamingoodger> piratbyran! 11:13:05 <Aali> seriously though, finnish people are hilarious when they're speaking in english 11:13:07 <benjamingoodger> it's a very well designed language, however 11:13:12 <Aali> because it still sounds like finnish 11:13:16 <Gekz> languages arent designed 11:13:17 <Gekz> lol 11:13:30 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 11:13:43 <benjamingoodger> evolution has made it appear well-designed then 11:13:46 <Gekz> French music is terrible people. 11:13:52 <benjamingoodger> btw, esperanto and a few others were designed 11:13:53 <Gekz> except like, one band 11:14:00 <Gekz> benjamingoodger: constructed. 11:14:12 <Gekz> esperanto, interlingua, volupuk, etc are conlangs 11:14:17 <Gekz> the rest are just evolutions 11:14:23 <benjamingoodger> you can't construct something before you design it 11:14:25 <Gekz> mainly from Proto-indo-european 11:14:28 <Brianetta> The myth of Intelligent Language 11:14:40 <benjamingoodger> :) 11:14:47 <Gekz> benjamingoodger: you cant design without a plan 11:14:54 <benjamingoodger> "in the beginning there was the ZAMENHOF" 11:15:30 <benjamingoodger> "and the ZAMENHOF said, Let there be simplified conjugation. And it was so, and the ZAMENHOF saw that it was good. And that was the first day." 11:15:45 <benjamingoodger> I could go on. pray I don't 11:18:26 <benjamingoodger> or rather, "komence estis la ZAMENHOF, kaj li diris, "estu konjugaciado simpla. kaj tio okuzis, kaj li vidis ke gxi estis bona; kaj tio estis la unua tago" etc. 11:18:54 <benjamingoodger> *okazis 11:19:00 <ln> 13:13 < Aali> because it still sounds like finnish <-- yeah, except for the ones who actually speak good english 11:20:18 <benjamingoodger> that happens with all strong accents, anyway 11:21:13 <ln> Aali: on the other hand, swedes are notorious for thinking they speak good english, while they actually mix english and swedish grammar and words here and there, due to the similarities. 11:21:51 <benjamingoodger> meh 11:21:59 <benjamingoodger> that's forgiveable so long as we can understand each other 11:22:36 <benjamingoodger> I can understand appe despite his constant errors. it's not problematic 11:24:38 <Aali> ln: thank you for taking it so personal and serious 11:25:04 <Aali> can i go back to poking fun at finnish people that dont speak good english now? 11:25:21 <benjamingoodger> don't mind ln, he's having a little tantrum 11:26:42 <Aali> yeah, i noticed he's a little displeased with the world around him 11:28:43 <Rubidium> Aali: /ignore has been developed to battle such instances 11:28:56 <appe> :o 11:29:01 <petern> so has /kb :D 11:29:12 <appe> :( 11:29:40 <ln> Aali: i was merely stating two facts, i took nothing personally. 11:30:19 <Aali> i'm sure you didn't 11:31:06 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad923c1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:31:53 <ln> my apologies. 11:33:39 <Celestar> 1,009,697,871 /tftpboot/32bit/var/log/xinetd.log 11:33:40 <Celestar> :o 11:34:00 <Rubidium> did it crash the server yet? 11:34:08 <Celestar> nope 11:34:42 <roboboy> gnight 11:36:03 <Rubidium> Celestar: then what's the point ;) 11:36:21 <Rubidium> a quite big logfile... just logrotate it! 11:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: come again when you have another triplet in that number ;) 11:37:44 <davis-> thatnfra project isnt supported by openttd , is it? grf compatibility wise 11:37:48 <davis-> that infra* 11:38:12 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:38:23 <Rubidium> depends on what it does and doesn't use of the GRF specs 11:38:54 <davis-> ah.. 11:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> a recent thread in the forum suggested that the main blocker to move the whole project to openttd was the lack of custom bridgeheads 11:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> which has nothing to do with grf support 11:40:31 <davis-> well i just seen some pretty impressing screenshots , so i wondered 11:42:18 <appe> does openttd have mods? 11:42:27 * appe want to build trains with the speed of light 11:42:40 <davis-> lol 11:42:43 <SpComb> then you wouldn't even be able to see them 11:42:45 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-19.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:09 <Ammler> are the infra screen 100% from ingame? 11:43:36 <benjamingoodger> where are these to be found? 11:43:36 <Ammler> like the shore edges. 11:43:43 <Rubidium> appe: then make teleporters as shown by the openttdcoop guys 11:44:08 <davis-> 12:43 Ammler: are the infra screen 100% from ingame? 11:44:14 <davis-> i dont know realy .. 11:46:01 <ln> hello 11:46:21 <davis-> hi 11:46:22 <Ammler> benjamingoodger: SAC screens? http://ttartist.freeforums.org/index.php 11:46:40 <benjamingoodger> cheers 11:46:59 <benjamingoodger> ...that's not showing any forums 11:47:08 <benjamingoodger> do you have to log in to read it 11:47:08 <appe> Rubidium: well, light speed may be too much, i want them to be "seen", but still really awesomeness fast. 11:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the screenshots are said to be from a real game, no photoshopping 11:47:09 <benjamingoodger> ? 11:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: afaik 65535 is the max speed 11:47:54 <appe> thats more then enough 11:48:10 <davis-> 12:47 benjamingoodger: ...that's not showing any forums 11:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and in that case, it's a matter of 3 lines in a grf 11:48:11 <davis-> weird 11:48:17 <davis-> yesterday i could read it without an account 11:48:22 <appe> how does one get mods into a singleplayer game? any extra software thats used, or is it a "grf" (or what ever you now call it) 11:48:26 <appe> :-) 11:49:13 <davis-> anyhow benjamingoodger 11:49:14 <davis-> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=27761&start=220 11:49:18 <davis-> screenshots aswell 11:49:29 <benjamingoodger> thank you 11:49:30 <appe> holy crap cat poo smells like ..poo. 11:49:51 <davis-> chakaladeng 11:51:48 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:51:55 <yorick> http://paste.openttd.org/176821 <-- first impressions? 11:52:31 <appe> Rubidium: are there mods for it? 11:52:40 <appe> not the speed itself, but in general 11:53:38 <Ammler> davis-: ttartist has nicer ones :-) 11:53:54 <davis-> well , he made the forum acessable for registrated users only 11:54:02 <davis-> and iam to lazy to create some account now 11:54:18 <Ammler> http://ttartist.freeforums.org/files/ttartist/attachments/infra1003_288.png <-- does that work? 11:54:28 <davis-> nope 11:54:37 <Ammler> it is worth to register :P 11:54:37 <davis-> leads me to the portal.php 11:54:46 <davis-> he must have changed it today ::p 11:54:53 <davis-> cause yesterday i still could read it all 11:55:19 <benjamingoodger> pointless.. 11:55:22 <petern> yorick, why add a new water class? 11:55:37 <Celestar> man 11:55:45 <Celestar> IBM's dsm sucks 11:55:51 <yorick> petern, to retain backward compatibility? 11:56:36 <appe> o 11:56:37 <appe> noo! 11:56:38 <appe> crap 11:56:54 <appe> one of the cats ate the solar panel from one of the beanbots 11:57:02 <appe> i dont think thats rather healthy 11:57:13 <benjamingoodger> !.! 11:57:44 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 11:57:54 <davis-> :| 11:58:19 <Sacro> >:3 11:58:58 <davis-> the bird is the word 11:59:21 <appe> :< 11:59:21 <petern> wogan played some country version of 'word up' this morning 11:59:27 <petern> that was quite scary 11:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> http://ttartist.freeforums.org/files/ttartist/attachments/infra1003_288.png <-- does that work? <- it says i'm logged in [impressive, that must have been years ago], but still redirects me to portal.php 11:59:47 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: " with some graphics illusion. It's still work in progress though... " <-- implies to me, it is not a GRF :-) 12:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, it's a grf, but things like underground stations are graphical illusions 12:00:19 <petern> Ammler, you're wrong 12:00:31 <petern> ttd was built with illusions 12:00:44 <petern> the illusion that vehicles fit under bridges and tunnels 12:00:52 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you might need to login, after that, it should work. 12:00:58 <davis-> everybody knows that the bird is the word 12:05:05 <benjamingoodger> right, time for college 12:05:10 <benjamingoodger> good afternoon, ln 12:05:14 <benjamingoodger> :D 12:05:36 <petern> when college starts at 9 and finishes at 5, every day, i might respect students :p 12:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: well, i can view the threads and the pictures in the threads, but this direct link doesn't work 12:06:06 <Ammler> well, it is the 2. screen 12:06:11 <Ammler> of the postcard thread. 12:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know these 12:06:25 <benjamingoodger> 1.15 start woot 12:06:32 <Ammler> I am wondering about the rounded edge. 12:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that's just a normal tile with a foundation 12:07:13 <ln> 'night 12:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of the optical illusions 12:09:52 <Ammler> for those without login at ttartits: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/screens/roundedge1.png 12:10:27 <petern> not really an 'illusion' 12:10:35 <petern> it's just appropriately placed pixels 12:10:41 <Sacro> fuck me that's beauitful 12:10:44 <Sacro> petern: porn? 12:10:46 <Ammler> :-) 12:10:58 <petern> Sacro, same applies... 12:11:46 <Qball> nice screenshot 12:12:38 <Ammler> maybe she used different new shores grfs and switch them for screens. 12:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it's not a shore, it's a house on a foundation 12:13:48 <petern> it's a 2x2 house 12:14:38 <petern> incidentally the curve isn't quite right for the 'isometric' view 12:14:49 <petern> especially the one on the left 12:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i'm watching Episode II now 12:19:08 <yorick> Yexo, I got a working patch :) 12:26:20 <appe> Eddi|zuHause: i think i have solved the pea problem. 12:26:21 <appe> :D 12:30:20 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.152.115.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:58 <Yexo> yorick: nice, can we test it? 12:36:05 <yorick> look at tt-forums :) 12:36:15 <Yexo> ok ;) 12:37:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.46] has joined #openttd 12:40:17 <Yexo> yorick: openttd: /home/thijs/openttd/trunk/src/water_map.h:50: WaterClass GetWaterClass(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY)' failed. 12:40:34 <yorick> meh 12:40:38 <yorick> when did that happen? 12:40:51 <Yexo> when the river was flooding 12:41:05 <Yexo> I generated a random scenario, placed one source tile, and pressed fast forward 12:42:36 <Yexo> it looks like it happens as soon as the rivers reaches sea 12:43:33 <yorick> meh, it does not happen here 12:44:02 <appe> >< 12:44:30 <yorick> yexo, savegame? 12:45:07 <Ammler> yorick: same here 12:45:26 <Ammler> the river reaches the sea, but does still flood 12:46:18 <yorick> savegame? 12:48:27 <Ammler> terraforms quite a lot :-) 12:49:07 <yorick> it should only terraform if it gets trapped 12:49:09 <Ammler> yorick: it assert everytime. 12:49:20 <yorick> Ammler, do you have a scenario on which it does? 12:49:21 <Yexo> not everytime here, but often 12:49:31 <Yexo> yorick: I attached a scenario to your thread 12:49:35 <yorick> ok 12:49:47 <Ammler> I start a scenario and place one piece river on top of a mountain. 12:50:13 <Ammler> then fastforward until it reaches sea, then it will assert. 12:50:35 <Ammler> like if to rivers crash together 12:50:42 <Ammler> !s/to/two/ 12:51:13 <yorick> aha 12:51:13 <appe> http://www.forexcult.com/charts.php?q=SEKJPY&range=1d&type=l 12:51:14 <Ammler> yes, I can crash it without sea :-) 12:51:16 <appe> not so good. 12:51:26 <yorick> I was hunting that bug down 12:53:34 <yorick> it fails to reach a coast tile 12:53:52 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-133.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:55:17 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.5] 12:55:22 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd 12:57:04 <yorick> ammler, how can you crash it without sea? 12:57:53 <Ammler> I guess, it is more something when it gets stocked 12:59:51 <yorick> Yexo's problem occurs when it has a coasttile in sight, but can also flood other tiles 13:00:09 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:00:53 <Ammler> lol 13:01:08 <Ammler> now it terraformed a whole sea 13:01:18 <Ammler> and flooded it 13:01:54 <yorick> maybe I should remove the coast-magnet 13:02:59 <Celestar> stupid externals HDDs. Why do they all ship with fat32 13:03:27 <Ammler> yorick: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/scenarios/UNNAMED.scn 13:03:49 <Tefad> Celestar: because fat32 is inefficient for large drives containing small files 13:04:13 <Ammler> Celestar: if you find a better FS for stupid usb HDs, tell me. 13:04:19 <Ammler> (using xfs now) 13:04:22 <Tefad> ntfs 13:04:28 <Qball> ext3 13:04:30 <Qball> </hides> 13:04:36 <petern> Celestar, because it works on everything 13:04:37 <Ammler> ext3 isn't 13:04:46 <Qball> ext3 always worked for me 13:04:48 <Qball> (tm) 13:05:02 <Ammler> which options do you use 13:05:09 <Antdovu> Qball: unexpected end tag 13:05:09 <Qball> for usb disk depends 13:05:24 <Qball> if it is plugged in/out alot I mount it sync and high commit rate 13:05:35 <Qball> if it is always in.. not synced mount and lower commit rate 13:10:57 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 13:11:30 <Celestar> Ammler: xfs (= 13:11:49 <Ammler> hmm, another experiment :P 13:12:23 <DASPRiD> ext3 works 13:13:15 <DASPRiD> welll they usually choose fat32 because it's readable and mostly writable on any system ;) 13:13:16 <Ammler> I guess, it depense a lot of the disk itself, 13:13:35 <Tefad> ntfs is readable and mostely writable on any system. 13:13:45 <Tefad> -e. 13:14:00 <Ammler> some "cheap" disk becomes too hot 13:14:00 * Brianetta uses TrueCrypt, often with Ext3 inside 13:14:13 <DASPRiD> Tefad, linux kernels older than a year cant 13:14:17 <DASPRiD> (write) 13:14:18 <Tefad> sure they can 13:14:25 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228011059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:25 <Tefad> ntfs-3g works on 2.4 kernels even 13:14:39 <DASPRiD> means special kernel module, no thanks 13:14:39 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228011059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:14:45 <DASPRiD> it should work out-of-the-box 13:14:46 <Tefad> it means using fuse 13:14:51 <Tefad> which is out of the box in many distros 13:15:20 <DASPRiD> fat32 is simply sadly the way to go, plug it into any computer ant it works 13:15:25 <Tefad> if your OS is that dated, why are you trying to use such large drives with it 13:15:42 <Tefad> ntfs is replacing fat32 in that regard thanks to the efforts behind ntfs-3g 13:15:55 <yorick> hm, how do I test for coast tiles with some water on? 13:16:10 <Brianetta> Tefad: Lowest common denominator. FAT works on OS X, Linux, Windows and even Morph OS. 13:16:11 <DASPRiD> Tefad, well uhm, i dont really care about windoze partition types that much 13:16:40 <Brianetta> If you know enough to care, you can put another filesystem on in around three seconds. 13:17:16 <Ammler> you need something which can be almost safely unpluged wihout unmount 13:17:17 <Brianetta> For the average user who wants to cart around their MP3s, photos, Word documents and the odd ISO image FAT is just fine. 13:17:33 <Tefad> perhaps if you're using morphOS you should stick to what works with morphOS.. 13:17:59 <Brianetta> You're missing the point. None fo the hard drive manufacturers are forcing you to use FAT. 13:18:08 <Ammler> and ext3 with sync didn't work properly here. 13:18:16 <Brianetta> They're installing it to make it useful to the majority, who don't care what a filesystem is. 13:19:54 <Ammler> those user, who knows what FAT is, can reformat to something better quite fast and easy, indeed. 13:20:06 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad923c1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:20:42 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad1d189.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:21:14 <Ammler> will there ever be a "better" FAT? 13:21:23 <Ammler> filesize > 4 GB 13:21:27 <Tefad> most likely not 13:21:31 <Ammler> or was it 2? 13:21:37 <Tefad> it was 2 or 4 depending on the driver. 13:21:43 <Tefad> the filesystem itself supports 4GB 13:21:55 <Ammler> VFAT is 4 13:24:08 <Tefad> microsoft was the main proporter of the FAT system, they shifted efforts into NTFS 13:24:27 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet561.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 13:25:11 <Tefad> as microsoft filesystems seems to be the standard, it is only logical to look into NTFS as a common one.. unless of course microsoft OS becomes a minority and something replaces it. 13:31:43 <appe> is fat ever usefull? 13:32:26 <Celestar> appe: yes. floppies. 13:32:46 <appe> oh. 13:32:47 <Celestar> that's what it has been made for. that's what it is good for 13:32:53 <appe> oh, ok. 13:33:27 <appe> i know a thing or two about computers, or at least the hardware. but a funny thing about me is that im always very narrowed 13:33:44 <appe> for instance, my server is soon to be six years old, and i still cant say what filesystem it uses. 13:34:06 <appe> and sometimes i have to think twice before i remember what os i use on it. :D 13:34:11 <Antdovu> depending on what the purpose of the server is, that might not even matter 13:34:36 <Celestar> all my comps run the same OS :) 13:34:47 <appe> well, it weird. i can build a press stacker machine ts900 from scratch (two cubic meters of electronics), but i cant remember where i put my favourite shirt. 13:34:53 <appe> selective memory at its best. 13:36:17 <appe> or for instance, this morning i forgot where i parked my car, but i still remember the lyrics from a song ive only heard two times in the last eight years. 13:36:23 <appe> the human brain is really something. 13:40:56 *** thingwath [~thingwath@88.83.164.57] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 13:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is that you park your car mostly by reflex, and reflexes are impossible for the brain to remember 13:43:11 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: many don't drive their car "by reflex" 13:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd be amazed how large the part of reflexes is when driving 13:43:56 <Celestar> when I drive, yes (= 13:44:16 <Celestar> 99.x % 13:44:35 <Celestar> usually I don't even conciously "process" traffic lights 13:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the main reason for the "Schrecksekunde", which is the time the brain needs to activate from the reflex/subconcious state 13:45:02 <Celestar> when you ask me, one second after passing it, whether it was red or green, I normally have no idea 13:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 13:45:33 <Celestar> I remember yellow though 13:45:40 <Celestar> especially the darker shades of it :P 13:45:43 <appe> <@Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: many don't drive their car "by reflex" 13:45:47 <appe> i would rather say the opposite. 13:45:48 <Gekz> you remember it because you consciously speed through it 13:45:48 <Gekz> lol 13:45:55 <Celestar> Gekz: er .. yes 13:45:58 <appe> it's like holding your balance while using a bike. 13:46:30 <Celestar> appe: you don't drive with bad drivers often 13:46:41 <appe> wait what. :D 13:46:47 <Celestar> appe: they use 90% of their processing power to actually operate the car 13:46:47 <appe> aha 13:46:52 <Celestar> it's scary 13:46:54 <appe> i took "bad drivers" in a different perspective. 13:46:54 <appe> :D 13:47:06 <Antdovu> it is pretty bad in the UK, most of them drive on the wrong side of the road 13:47:06 <appe> Celestar: i guess that makes the bad driver. 13:47:37 <Celestar> appe: yes, because they have hardly any resources left to monitor traffic 13:47:39 <Antdovu> and then they get mad when I use the right side 13:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, teach them! :p 13:48:13 <appe> :> 13:49:15 <Gekz> Antdovu: that's pretty arrogant 13:49:21 <Gekz> there is no "wrong" side of the road 13:49:25 <Gekz> there is simply left or right 13:49:35 <Gekz> all because a country drives on the left doesnt make them wrong. 13:49:44 <Celestar> there is a "wrong" side: Thats the one I'm not on ;) 13:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the reflex thing gets kinda annoying when you want to go somewhere you don't normally go, and take all the wrong ways at the crossings 13:49:56 <appe> Eddi|zuHause: for for once, speeding. 13:50:04 <Gekz> it's quite a mindfucking experience to drive on the right for the first time 13:50:09 <Gekz> when youve driven on the left your entire life 13:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and 2 seconds after turning, you thing "wait, i wanted to go the other way 13:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: well, the opposite of "right" is "wrong", clearly. 13:51:11 <appe> haha 13:51:29 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I once remember driving to the airport (60 km from home) and upon arriving on the curbside, I realized that I actually didn't want to go there :P 13:51:39 <Celestar> I even had passengers with me :P 13:51:42 <Gekz> Celestar: lolwhat 13:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> ha ha ;) 13:51:59 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 13:52:04 <appe> Celestar: o_0 13:52:24 <appe> holy canoli 13:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually had an accident this way... while on the crossing i switched the directions i wanted to go... 13:52:28 <appe> my new dish washer is way exact 13:52:39 <appe> it made a full program on 60 minutes, on the second! 13:52:43 <appe> awesome. 13:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and didn't yield correctly 13:54:39 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:58:01 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:12 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:01:24 <yorick> Ammler, yexo, I fixed it up a bit 14:08:28 <Yexo> yorick: I still got an assert 14:08:35 <yorick> :o 14:08:39 <Yexo> it happened when one river terraformed another river away 14:09:07 <ln> goodbye 14:09:30 <Yexo> and the rivers often 'close themself in' and never reach sea 14:10:55 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 14:15:09 *** ln [~lanurm@castor.utu.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> my suggestion at that point was to form a lake, and when the lake level rises, you terraform up, until you either hit a chance of becoming a sink, or you find a new exit 14:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "sink" begin a chance that the new river tile is not flooding anymore 14:17:58 <appe> well 14:18:00 <appe> time to leave. 14:18:02 *** appe [~huset@user84.77-105-204.netatonce.net] has left #openttd [] 14:40:09 *** ttdopen is now known as PierreW 14:47:21 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:47:45 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14594 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2412]: trains could get their their last visited station reset when still (un)loading causing an invalid state. 14:48:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-235-60.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:16 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D8DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:21 <fjb> Hello 14:58:46 <gynter> no 15:07:37 <Antdovu> I disagree 15:13:32 <yorick> stupid thing, don't terraform when you're a downwards slope, thereby flattening yourself and asserting! 15:14:14 <Sacro> haha 15:18:15 <Antdovu> it almost sound like you are developing a new disaster... 15:18:25 <Qball> esp the aseert 15:22:29 <yorick> Antdovu, I think I am... 15:23:00 <yorick> rivers you can divert to flatten som towns or break some railway 15:27:12 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 15:27:43 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:27:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F895.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-73.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 15:29:21 <Celestar> my RAID array spits out a "WARNING" if you remove a drive, but a "SERIOUS" if you log in via the http interface 15:30:13 <Rubidium> then you're using a RAID6 array and changing settings of the array is seen as hacking ;) 15:30:26 <Celestar> your assumption is correct (= 15:30:27 <Rubidium> or is it a RAID0 array ;) 15:30:38 <Celestar> this assumption is not correct :P 15:31:35 <Rubidium> *or* SERIOUS means someone logged in with the right credentials the first time so it's someone that's likely a serious admin 15:32:17 <Rubidium> whereas multiple failed attempts makes the admin stressed and then it warns 15:32:30 <Celestar> uh huh :P 15:33:26 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:39 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow 15:33:49 <yorick> *or* it correctly identifies you as a stupid person who should not try to change the settings 15:34:47 * Celestar pokes yorick with a blunt spoon 15:34:55 * yorick gets a trout 15:36:15 * planetmaker hands Celestar Miraculix' special draught. 15:36:49 <Celestar> heh. 15:37:01 <Celestar> my server has 65536 files in the / file system :P 15:37:26 <Qball> Celestar: that is not good 15:37:34 <Qball> I had that in my tmp once, thx to webcvs 15:38:49 <Celestar> Qball: whole file system, not that one dir 15:38:57 <Qball> owh 15:39:10 <Qball> I had that in one dir.. made the quiet deadish for most things 15:39:15 <Qball> if it cannot create files in /tmp 15:39:57 <yorick> Ammler, Yexo, asserts have been fixed :) 15:41:13 <Antdovu> yorick: #define NDEBUG 15:41:24 <Antdovu> ;) 15:41:27 <yorick> ? 15:41:37 <Antdovu> fixes all asserts 15:41:53 <yorick> not the crashing 15:42:05 <yorick> asserts are the more nice way of crashing 15:42:27 <Antdovu> I know ;) 15:42:45 <Celestar> an assert is not a crash 15:42:55 <Celestar> it's a commanded program termination 15:43:10 <Antdovu> depends on the definition of a crash 15:43:44 <Celestar> a "crash" is usually a SIGSEGV 15:43:52 <Rubidium> Celestar: using that logic some stack overflows aren't crashes either 15:44:01 <Celestar> Rubidium: not all (= 15:44:35 <Yexo> yorick: it still asserts 15:44:39 <yorick> what 15:44:58 <yorick> how did you manage to assert it this time? 15:45:18 <Antdovu> assert(0); 15:45:26 <Yexo> just creating a mountanious, very rough landscape and placing a single river 15:46:45 <yorick> I like my asserts more byte-size 15:47:28 <planetmaker> he, rivers are a bitch :P 15:47:52 * Rubidium wonders when OpenGFX becomes really usable; cause now the old mapgen fails horribly :( 15:47:58 <Qball> sudo find / | wc -l -> 483183 15:48:14 <petern> heh 15:48:33 <petern> anyone would think those sprites are mystical 15:49:34 <Rubidium> filling them with noise would probably solve the problem 15:51:57 <yorick> omg, my river actually suicided this time 15:52:05 <yorick> it terraformed and killed its source :p 15:53:15 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 15:53:17 <yorick> ooh, I asserted it 15:53:33 <yorick> it flowed up the mountain and then asserted 15:54:18 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 15:54:31 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 15:54:58 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 15:59:57 <Antdovu> remove the anti-gravity ;) 16:01:19 <yorick> seems like the water flow table was not really made for steep slopes 16:01:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c386a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:01:42 <yorick> btw, shouldn't the slopes have 1<<0, 1<<1 values instead of hex ones? 16:09:54 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:13:58 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:16:26 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14595 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs): 16:17:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Add: Estonian currency. 16:17:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Change: Slovenia switched to the Euro in 2007. 16:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: fix it 16:19:48 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5ED06979.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:19:54 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 16:20:47 <frosch123> but use the CORNER enum in that case 16:21:59 <yorick> I already fixed my problem :) 16:43:15 <Fantasya> afk 16:43:16 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has quit [] 16:45:45 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@192.87.217.56] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 16:52:57 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14596 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14591): Missing 'return'. 16:53:05 <SpComb> dun dun dun 16:53:23 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:53:33 *** yorick is now known as Guest4068 16:53:33 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 16:59:37 *** Guest4068 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:50 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 17:05:24 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:01 <Celestar> why is my Cordless Logitech Keybaord so crappy compared to the one in my notebook ... 17:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> all the logitech keyboards i have seen had totally weird key layout 17:07:08 <Celestar> it's not the layout. 17:07:12 <Celestar> it feels ... wrong 17:08:40 * Celestar returns to using his notebook 17:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> when i switch keyboards, i never hit the right keys anyway 17:09:00 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:00 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 17:11:42 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:11:50 * Belugas has a Logitech at home. Loves it. For more than 2 years now. Maybe it's just the change that makes Celestar feeling like tghat 17:12:44 <Celestar> Belugas: I've noticed that once you have a Thinkpad, you never want a different keyboard again. 17:12:51 <Celestar> I'm not the only one with that "problem" 17:12:53 * fjb stays with Cherry G80-3000. 17:14:01 <Celestar> heh. Jaguar didn't manage to catch Roadrunner 17:14:32 <Antdovu> I know what you are talking about ;) 17:14:48 <Celestar> good :D 17:14:51 <Antdovu> but openttd still wouldn't run fast enough on either of those 17:14:57 <Antdovu> :P 17:15:10 <Celestar> I don't know what openttd you're talking about :P 17:15:21 <Antdovu> the other one 17:15:50 <Celestar> hah 17:16:04 <Antdovu> but they would probably be quite good as heaters 17:16:06 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-191-213.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:52 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:03 <Celestar> hm Jaguar has 7MW, while Roadrunner has around 2.5 MW 17:20:14 <welshdragon> just a quick query: is there/will there be an xbox 360 port of openttd|? 17:20:43 <Celestar> if you make one, there will be one (= 17:21:07 <welshdragon> aah 17:21:22 <Antdovu> I'd make it 17:21:42 <Celestar> I just don't think anyone ever tried. 17:21:49 <Celestar> can imagine it's easier on the PS3 17:21:50 <Antdovu> but I am currently busy porting it to my doorbell 17:22:59 <Antdovu> I already managed to make linux run on it but the average time to boot up is currently 2 days 17:24:28 <Antdovu> someone suggested that I might not need radiation hardened components for it so I'm investigating the claim 17:26:16 <Celestar> maybe you should have your skull radiaton-hardened? :P 17:27:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-73.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:20 <Antdovu> I regularly wear my tinfoil hat but thanks for the suggestion 17:28:55 <benjamingoodger> I believe I read an article one about a study that had found that tinfoil hats actually amplify EM radiation 17:29:16 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:29:32 <Celestar> "Sir, I believe I know what is causing the neutrino emmissions" 17:35:09 *** yorick is now known as Guest4073 17:35:10 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 17:36:10 *** Guest4073 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:49 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:37:28 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 17:37:34 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 17:38:37 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 17:41:25 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:36 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:46:42 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:52 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-233.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 18:04:25 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:05:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-73.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:02 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-233.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:16 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-247.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:46 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry 18:28:08 <planetmaker> Rubidium here? 18:30:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:31:11 <Wolf01> hello 18:31:23 <dihedral> hello Wolf01 18:33:39 <Antdovu> I am looking for C8H10N4O2 18:34:00 <Wolf01> looks a kind of sugar 18:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like an explosive :p 18:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> sugar doesn't usually contain N 18:34:54 <Wolf01> thank you, I missed the N 18:34:59 <Antdovu> C8H10N4O2 is a bitter white crystalline xanthine that acts as a psychoactive stimulant drug. 18:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's close enough to an explosive ;) 18:35:29 <SmatZ> I would use some C2H5OH 18:35:39 <planetmaker> ^^:P 18:35:46 <planetmaker> easier to get hold of ;) 18:35:51 <SmatZ> :) 18:35:56 <Rubidium> yeah right... 18:36:18 <Rubidium> C8H10N4O2 is easier to acquire than C2H5OH 18:36:37 <planetmaker> sure? 18:36:41 <SmatZ> it depends... I don't drink coffee 18:36:47 <planetmaker> ah... :P 18:36:48 <Rubidium> Caffeine vs Alcohol 18:36:59 <Antdovu> planetmaker: google for the formula :P 18:37:01 <Belugas> caffeine, thanks 18:37:07 <Rubidium> the latter has age limits in more countries 18:37:12 <Rubidium> the former usually doesn't 18:37:14 <Belugas> but tonight, i would not mind alcohol 18:37:15 <SmatZ> though I dring a lot of tea 18:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i have Kaffeine, that's usually enough ;) 18:37:18 <SmatZ> drink 18:37:19 <Belugas> rhu8m, actually 18:37:22 <Rubidium> ergo the former is easier to acquire than the latter 18:37:22 <SmatZ> :) 18:37:25 <planetmaker> yeah... but with caffeine the structure matters. the sum isn't all which is important. 18:37:50 <SmatZ> "Caffeine is also called guaranine when found in guarana, mateine when found in mate, and theine when found in tea; all of these names are synonyms for the same chemical compound." <--- I didn't know that 18:38:10 <planetmaker> yup. I knew tea and coffee. 18:38:12 <Belugas> and slurp when found in my mug 18:38:20 <Rubidium> jeez.. some people really didn't pay attention during chemistry 18:38:20 <SmatZ> hehe 18:38:30 <planetmaker> :P 18:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what these others are supposed to be 18:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but i know that theine and caffeine are the same thing 18:39:05 <Antdovu> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Caffeinated_spiderwebs.jpg/170px-Caffeinated_spiderwebs.jpg 18:42:08 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14597 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:42:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-19 18:43:03 18:42:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 165 fixed, 227 changed by nubllett (156), burgerd (236) 18:42:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed, 5 changed by Excel20 (7) 18:42:50 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed by glx (2) 18:42:51 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: german - 6 fixed, 2 changed by jonathan159 (2), MaSch (6) 18:42:53 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed, 20 changed by oklmernok (21) 18:47:37 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:47:37 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:40 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 18:49:55 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28E276.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:27 *** Zorn [zorn@e177238211.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:51:37 *** Zorni [zorn@e177238211.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:37 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28E276.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:37 *** Mortal is now known as Guest4081 18:51:38 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:58:45 *** Guest4081 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:53 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:04:27 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:14 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:10:32 *** yorick is now known as Guest4084 19:10:32 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 19:15:43 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 19:16:00 *** Guest4084 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:44 *** rortom [~rortom_@5ac3db29.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:53 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:26:27 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:20 *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:43:57 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:12 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-247.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:46 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-136-217.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:02 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:29 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 20:19:05 *** mikl_ [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 20:21:38 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 20:24:30 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 20:26:34 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:42 <Fantasya> g' evening 20:30:14 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 20:33:43 <gynter> no 20:34:17 <davis_> ok 20:38:29 <Antdovu> yes 20:49:29 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:03 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:25 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-133.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:03 *** rortom [~rortom_@5ac3db29.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-139-103.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:09:57 *** Killer11 [~Killer11@82-135-222-146.static.zebra.lt] has joined #openttd 21:10:09 <Killer11> erm hi 21:10:30 <yorick> hi 21:11:57 <Rubidium> that's a strange greeting 21:13:41 <Killer11> I'm strange too so why should I care 21:13:53 <yorick> because we are also strange 21:14:17 <Killer11> but 21:14:29 <yorick> but...but 21:14:30 <Killer11> then you shouldn't care too 21:14:48 <yorick> yes, but I'm strange, so because of a strange reason, I do 21:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> better than "YOU ALL SUCK DICK" ;) 21:15:03 <Killer11> BUT U DOOOO 21:15:05 <Killer11> lol 21:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... -1 points on the in-jokes 21:15:35 <Killer11> wait 21:15:37 <yorick> -1 on the greeting 21:15:41 <Killer11> do we actualy have points here? 21:15:46 <yorick> no 21:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't. 21:16:07 <yorick> unless you're strange in a strange way 21:16:19 <Killer11> doack 21:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you owe us points 21:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't pay, we will sue the guts out of you 21:16:46 <Killer11> i owe you nothing 21:16:48 <Killer11> except oxen 21:16:53 <Killer11> lots of oxen 21:17:38 <yorick> I don't need oxen 21:17:48 <Killer11> no 21:17:49 <Killer11> you do 21:17:57 <Killer11> everyone does 21:17:57 <yorick> no, I'm strange 21:18:00 <yorick> I don't 21:18:34 <Killer11> i see 21:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> my plonklist feels strangely empty, if that counts 21:18:41 <yorick> no you don't 21:18:50 <Killer11> you are one of them oxen-haters 21:19:18 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FAAE.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:19:19 <yorick> no, I like oxen, but I don't actually need them 21:19:36 <Belugas> would a vegetarian need oxen? 21:19:43 <Killer11> people are starting to flee... 21:19:50 <yorick> no, and vegetarians are also strange 21:19:53 <yorick> so that explains 21:20:08 <Rubidium> Belugas: yes 21:20:12 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b14e.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:20:17 <Rubidium> just to work the fields 21:20:30 <yorick> they'd use soja-creatures for that 21:20:41 <Killer11> yup 21:20:42 <Killer11> soja 21:21:38 <Killer11> soja-moose is not amused by your mocking of soja 21:21:52 <Belugas> oh.. killer11... i know that guy. on the forums. 21:22:09 <Killer11> oh dear 21:22:12 <Killer11> I am known 21:22:23 <Killer11> I should be delighted or smth 21:22:57 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 21:23:09 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-72-224.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:09 <Killer11> i'm currently actively talking to myself in my trainset topic 21:23:13 <Killer11> THE FUN! 21:23:54 <Killer11> atleast people download it 21:24:06 <yorick> do they? 21:24:10 <Killer11> but they don't say a word... 21:24:20 <Killer11> last release got like 19 downloads and no comments 21:24:26 <yorick> maybe you just download it yourself 21:24:27 <Belugas> maybe it's better this way 21:24:31 <yorick> on your sleep 21:24:44 <Killer11> MUST DOWNLOAD MY SET 19 TIMES 21:24:50 <yorick> ^ 21:24:50 <Belugas> maybe you would not like to ear what they have to say 21:25:06 <Killer11> problem is that i would 21:25:10 <Killer11> even if it sucks 21:25:12 <Belugas> maybe they are afraid to talk to someone who nicknamed self as "killer" 21:25:14 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 21:25:44 <Killer11> people who are afraid of nicknames have alot of problems 21:25:45 <Fantasya> killer :D 21:25:48 <Killer11> serious problems 21:25:53 <Fantasya> Im listening now The_killers :D 21:25:57 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that you french speaking people like to skip 'h's when speaking, but that you don't even write them now is new to me :p 21:26:06 *** yorick is now known as Guest4098 21:26:07 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 21:26:09 <Belugas> meybe they are those kind of people who just download any grf passing by and using them in bundles, not even knowing what is what and which is wich 21:26:32 <Killer11> maybe 21:26:35 <Killer11> oh whatever 21:26:54 <Killer11> i'm kinda happy to be the sole person that bothers making eastern block locos 21:27:07 <Killer11> i mean stuff that was used very videly in USSR 21:27:11 <yorick> didn't LA do that too? 21:27:21 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b14e.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:31 <Killer11> elaborate please 21:28:08 <Killer11> was that set released? 21:30:23 <yorick> no 21:30:27 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:52 <Killer11> Mine is out even now 21:30:54 <yorick> does it even exist? 21:31:15 <Killer11> i don't really know 21:31:29 <Killer11> first time i hear that someone else was making an effort 21:31:56 <Killer11> so far my set is one mans job except for some little help on sprites by other people 21:32:00 <Killer11> alot of that stuff i' 21:32:05 <Killer11> ll redraw 21:32:23 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 21:32:32 <Killer11> the only graphics of other artists that will stay will be the steamers 21:32:39 <Killer11> as i have no idea how to draw steamers 21:33:04 *** Guest4098 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:17 <Fantasya> cars will replace horses 21:33:20 <Fantasya> :) 21:33:43 <Fantasya> this is the big problem :/ 21:34:34 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.152.115.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:57 <Killer11> erm? 21:35:01 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]] 21:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Fantasya: welcome to 70 years ago ;) 21:38:19 *** AgentLeMan [~AgentLeMa@BAF771b.baf.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 21:38:22 <frosch123> poor Killer11, manual industries is already at two comments and 118 downloads :p 21:38:38 <frosch123> did you already created a grfcrawler entry? 21:39:11 <AgentLeMan> good evening :o) 21:42:45 <Fantasya> Eddi 21:42:56 <Fantasya> cars will replace horse :))))))))))))) 21:43:10 <Fantasya> but one problem :DDDD 21:43:49 <AgentLeMan> Fantasya, you are working on the "OpenTTD: Medieval" total conversion? ;o) 21:44:14 <Fantasya> no no. I like maglev 8) 21:44:29 <Killer11> frosch, Yes I do have a grfcrawler entry 21:44:45 <Fantasya> :DDD 21:45:01 <Killer11> problem is most people on tt-forums are geared towards western europe/north america 21:45:08 <Fantasya> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk8vdZ1AVj8 21:45:11 <Fantasya> my video :DDD 21:45:14 <Killer11> it would be unrealistic for me to get high number of downloads 21:45:40 <Killer11> i checked the CSD set right now 21:45:46 <AgentLeMan> can you give me a direct link, killer?` 21:45:51 <frosch123> [22:47] <Killer11> frosch, Yes I do have a grfcrawler entry <- hehe, since when? (Last edit: 2008.11.19) 21:45:53 <Fantasya> shitty junction in video, but then i was be newbie ;D 21:45:54 <Killer11> and it does have exactly one locomotive that is in my set 21:45:55 <planetmaker> Killer11: most people may come from there. I once saw some images / words of intention on George's website. I'd love to see such set 21:45:59 <Killer11> it's M62 21:46:55 <Killer11> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22273&start=0 21:47:02 <Killer11> read the info of usage 21:47:17 <Killer11> i am a totaly crude when it comes to coding 21:47:18 <AgentLeMan> thanks 21:47:24 <Killer11> i'll prolly need a coder later 21:47:33 <Killer11> as i don't know how to make articulated engines 21:47:34 <Killer11> ... 21:47:40 <Killer11> so i developed my own way 21:47:55 <Killer11> crude but reasonable 21:48:23 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 21:48:25 <Killer11> the screenshot on that post is from abit older version 21:48:33 <Killer11> COCKBUST!!!!! 21:48:36 *** mikl_ [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl_] 21:48:38 <Killer11> anyways 21:48:50 <Killer11> quite some sprites have been redone 21:49:06 <Killer11> basicly i remade this whole set in like 4 or 5 days 21:49:29 <Killer11> as when i started to recover it it was like totaly broken and unusable 21:50:32 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:35 <Killer11> if anyone wants I could dig up some screenies from older versions of the set 21:50:56 <Nite_Owl> Hello everyone 21:51:12 <AgentLeMan> what did he mean with "manual industries" though? 21:51:43 <AgentLeMan> frosch123> poor Killer11, manual industries is already at two comments and 118 downloads :p 21:51:50 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 21:52:29 <AgentLeMan> wow.. trafficlights! :o))))) 21:52:31 <frosch123> AgentLeMan: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=244 21:52:50 <AgentLeMan> good to see the vehicles get some attention too 21:53:14 <AgentLeMan> will we get parachutes for plane-emergencys too? ;o) 21:54:47 <Wolf01> 'night 21:54:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:55:32 <AgentLeMan> frosch123, hm, that sounds, as if we then wouldnt be just transporters, but more like... suppliers too, like in transport giant? 21:56:06 <planetmaker> frosch123: nice grf :) 21:56:20 <planetmaker> I think it's especially suitable for certain kind of scenarios... 21:57:07 <AgentLeMan> and i guess, it wont work with ECS 21:57:14 <frosch123> hehe, thanks :) Though I don't know why someone can enjoy playing with it, I put it on grfcrawler when the download counter passed 50 :s 22:00:41 *** sladen [paul@193.28.45.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:18 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 22:02:03 *** sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #openttd 22:03:30 <planetmaker> frosch123: another proof that peoples perception of "fun" may greatly vary - and a big amount of people has more ideas than a few :P 22:04:20 <planetmaker> mind, I added download 119 ;) 22:04:42 <AgentLeMan> planetmaker, thats why a modulesystem would be great, as far as i know, you cant do everything with GRFs? 22:05:05 <Rubidium> you can't do everything with any module system either... 22:05:15 <planetmaker> hehe. yeah 22:05:25 <AgentLeMan> hm, i thought of something like the mutators in unreal tournament 22:06:09 <Rubidium> does UT allow you to replace the complete graphics rendering with your own scripted version? 22:06:17 <Rubidium> no? so why should we do that? 22:06:57 <planetmaker> Rubidium: well... you nearly do ;) It just needs newrails / newroads ;) 22:07:41 <Rubidium> that only changes the input, not the rendering process itself 22:08:25 <planetmaker> ok :) 22:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> AgentLeMan: what makes you think loading of grfs is not a module system? 22:08:47 <AgentLeMan> Rubidium : because people can then develop additions without knowing much about the system itself, or wont have to go too deep into the whole development process? 22:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there's even a second module system, for the AIs 22:09:36 <frosch123> AgentLeMan: tell that to a newgrf coder, that he does not need to know much about ttd 22:09:38 <planetmaker> AgentLeMan: you think there's anywhere a way to make good additions to anything without knowing the base you work on? 22:10:20 <Rubidium> yay... more people who talk without knowing what they are actually talking about... 22:10:47 <AgentLeMan> Rubidium : thats called "learning" 22:10:57 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28E276.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:35 <Rubidium> making such unfounded statements makes it all the more likely to end up on the ignore lists of the people who can actually help you 22:12:59 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:13:22 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet561.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:00 <AgentLeMan> theres no need to be so touchy. i didnt intended to offend anyone, nor make your work sound bad. i dont know, why theres suddenly this rise of tension. 22:14:59 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:19:48 <Rubidium> because there's a fairly large number of people telling all kinds of lies and then there are other people who get upset by the lies 22:20:20 <frosch123> maybe we can rename "NewGRF" to "TTDScript" :p 22:21:07 <planetmaker> :) 22:22:08 *** elmex [~elmex@e180069048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:14 *** keyweed_ [~keyweed@home.keyweed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:39 <AgentLeMan> Rubidium : have you an example? 22:23:17 <frosch123> somehow putting spaces in front of colons reminds me about babyottd 22:26:19 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:27:00 <Rubidium> people telling that PBS was in trunk without it being in trunk, people telling that fixing the ship path finder is simple 22:27:13 <Rubidium> people telling that their patch is desync safe 22:27:43 <AgentLeMan> °grins° youre not possibly referring to uhm... how was it called... plenking? 22:28:00 <Rubidium> people telling that their patch is savegame safe when they aren't 22:28:33 <Rubidium> people telling that making everything configurable is easy and makes it more useful for the users 22:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> people telling that switching to XML makes extensions easier ;) 22:30:53 <AgentLeMan> that is an assumption i cant agree with, Rubidium. i in no way said, it was easy. someone having an idea without knowing, if or how it works, or if the implentation would be easy/hard/possible, still has an idea. 22:31:27 <Rubidium> did I say you said that? 22:32:11 <AgentLeMan> sorry, it sounded to me like you did. as that was kinda something i did. 22:33:01 <Rubidium> of all "new" ideas a very small percentage is actually new; the rest is just the so manyth time asking for the same thing 22:33:04 <Killer11> http://polishduckreverse.ytmnd.com/ i am out of words 22:33:14 <Killer11> POLAND WHAT DID YOU DO 22:33:27 <Killer11> how come your ducktales song reversed soudns liek this 22:33:34 <Killer11> twisted people 22:34:02 *** Killer11 [~Killer11@82-135-222-146.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:42 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 22:34:43 <AgentLeMan> Rubidium: yes, after i again tried out OpenTTD after some pause, i thought about some things with a firend i play often over the net and, as i then later looked at the wiki, i saw, many og those things are already in place or in development. 22:35:28 *** lobstar_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 22:39:17 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:39:34 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Enohp eht no S'enilorac, Regor... 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