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00:01:08 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:02:09 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 00:02:27 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:05:25 *** mincepie [~ben@host86-146-20-113.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:41 *** izhirahi1er [~izzy@squareroot.divisionbyzero.net] has joined #openttd 00:06:02 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: izhirahider 00:10:16 *** benjamingoodger [~ben@host86-146-20-113.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:10:17 <thingwath> happy new year to our UTC friends :-) (even though I don't really believe it is going to be happy) 00:10:40 <benjamingoodger> my computer helpfully crashed due to the leap second 00:18:19 <tokai> impact of time 00:19:41 *** OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@129.80-202-76.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:12 *** hermitek [~hermitek@a40-brn1-5-113.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:25 *** benjamingoodger is now known as goodger 00:32:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:02 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 01:10:10 <Wolf01> 'night 01:10:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:12:59 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:08:13 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C51A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 02:12:17 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-128-252-186.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:47 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:41:21 <XeryusTC> HAPPY NEW YEAR 02:45:13 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:46:34 <goodger> indeed 02:56:40 <murr4y> yeah, what he said 03:05:39 <Belugas> From the bottom of my heart, happy new year to ya all. I still have 2 hours to go, but i'll just go crashing in my bed instead 03:05:45 <Belugas> so ENJOY AND BE GOOD! 03:08:56 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm45.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 03:12:17 <nicfer> happy new year from me, too 03:15:53 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 03:30:13 *** nicfer [~usuario@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:29 *** Zorni [zorn@e177235093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:03:16 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180066246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:07:29 *** elmex [~elmex@e180068254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:30 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:07:34 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-77-149.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:54 *** Zorn [zorn@e177114117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> happy you know what... 04:10:51 <goodger> thank you, Eddi|zuHause 04:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. it's still another hour in new york 04:14:57 <goodger> I thought you were german? 04:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> does that mean i am too selfish to care for people half around the world?Ãà 04:16:40 <goodger> traditional wisdom suggests "yes" 04:17:16 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 04:17:35 <goodger> however, I don't think so 04:17:41 <goodger> nonetheless, I don't think you need to 04:30:05 <murr4y> evolution suggests compassion for other humans being a generally good idea 04:30:30 <murr4y> however that applies more to people you are likely to meet again, like family and friends, more than strangers half-way around the world 04:31:15 <goodger> *nod* 04:31:19 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 04:31:42 <goodger> I don't think anyone will beat the london fireworks this year :P 04:40:13 *** michi_cc [5cc70aad03@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:34 *** Hoju [~Jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 05:07:53 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit] 06:21:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:03:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:21 *** Hoju [~Jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has quit [] 07:27:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has joined #openttd 08:07:58 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:03 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 08:20:34 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80A34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:22:21 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82291.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:22:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 08:31:22 <petern> heh 08:31:31 <goodger> hello petern 08:31:34 <petern> "They said the law, which makes it illegal to discriminate against gay applicants, went against their beliefs." 08:31:46 <goodger> burn them! 08:31:58 <petern> which is precisely why the law is there... 08:32:05 <goodger> indeed so. 08:32:08 <petern> yeah, burn the catholics! 08:32:12 <goodger> heh 08:32:20 <petern> oh wait, that was a few hundred years ago 08:32:22 <goodger> "cold is God's way of telling us to burn more Catholics!" 08:32:52 <goodger> I recommend burning many of them nowadays 08:33:12 <petern> yeah, i believe that too 08:33:16 <goodger> they are largely responsible, for instance, for the AIDS plague in Africa 08:33:19 <petern> unfortunately there are laws against my beliefs! 08:33:26 <goodger> indeed 08:33:43 <petern> responsible for? 08:34:06 <goodger> yes. the pope sits, year after year, wearing his silly hat, and telling people never to use condoms 08:34:24 <goodger> and, resultantly, practically everyone in subsaharan africa does not use a condom 08:34:36 <petern> ah yes 08:34:39 <goodger> and, resultantly, what seems like all of them have contracted HIV 08:36:19 <goodger> hmm... dissecting the events of my novel into bullet points, it seems that the parts _shown_ in the novel are about 30% of the story 08:36:53 <goodger> so I had better learn how to write exposition. 08:38:44 <petern> hmm 08:38:52 <petern> start with the e :) 08:39:05 <goodger> indeed... 08:47:32 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:35:19 <petern> argh 09:35:22 <petern> tesco need shooting 09:35:33 <petern> the local one is closed, and there is a sign that says 09:35:42 <petern> "You're local Express Store will be open as normal" 09:35:55 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:56 <goodger> petern: it is new year's day, after all 09:39:15 <goodger> do you even have a local tesco express? we don't... 09:39:21 <goodger> we have a coop, and they're closed 09:42:54 <petern> yeah 09:42:57 <petern> we do 09:43:03 <petern> but it was the "You're" :o 09:43:11 <goodger> oh, I see 09:43:20 <goodger> that's just the store managers 09:43:53 <goodger> poor grammar is a by-product of stupidity, which is required to desire/attain employment at Tesco 09:47:10 <petern> no 09:47:15 <petern> it's a big printed sign 09:47:18 <petern> not hand written :) 09:47:38 <goodger> even stupid people have access to printers in these, the late 2000s 09:47:55 <petern> i see 09:48:18 <dihedral> i always preferred saisburry's 09:48:21 <petern> one that prints full colour on a 4m x 1m (ish) canvas? 09:48:35 <goodger> yep 09:49:00 <goodger> no point in making such signs centrally and shipping them from cheshunt at short notice 09:49:13 <petern> the sainsbury's here sucks 09:49:25 <goodger> all sainsburys suck 09:49:35 <goodger> sainsbury in general sucks 09:49:43 <petern> not been in any others recently, heh 09:49:49 <petern> (recently being about 10 years) 09:50:08 <goodger> sainsbury has forgotten how to be sainsbury 09:50:19 <goodger> they're trying to be wal-mart, but they don't have the floor space 09:51:32 <petern> hehe 09:51:46 <petern> our sainsburys had refurbishment in 2005 09:51:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:51:57 <petern> there was absolutely no difference except to the entrance and exit areas 09:52:05 <Wolf01> hello! 09:52:10 <goodger> heh 09:52:12 <goodger> hello wolf 09:52:14 <goodger> 01 09:52:15 <goodger> damn 09:52:18 <goodger> hello Wolf01 09:52:22 <Wolf01> :) 09:52:24 <petern> "Customers at the new-look store will benefit from a brand new delicatessen, a new ATM and a new kiosk." 09:52:28 <petern> £2.5 million for that... 09:52:32 <goodger> *nod* 09:54:41 <goodger> that will soon be worth three euros and sixty-nine cents 09:58:58 <dihedral> petern, in oxford there was a really nice sainsburry's i used to go to - tesco's there really sucked :-P 09:59:12 <dihedral> it was alway to crammed full to suit my shopping taste :-P 09:59:41 <dihedral> and some of their products were really horrible (imo) 09:59:51 <dihedral> but, that is a few years ago no 09:59:52 <dihedral> w 10:05:55 * goodger has finished repairing his firefox profile and cursing mozcorp extensively 10:08:47 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 10:12:07 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [] 10:12:25 *** Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 10:12:55 *** Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [] 10:13:01 <goodger> hrrm 10:13:55 *** Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:10 *** Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 10:16:05 <goodger> hrrrm! 10:19:24 <petern> gah 10:19:33 <petern> system crawling :o 10:23:09 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has joined #openttd 10:24:12 <goodger> one of my friends wanted more murders in the book (he specified 9001, in fact), so I started by naming a character after him and having them murdered 10:24:46 <goodger> this was inexplicably considered odd behaviour 10:31:47 <petern> hah 10:33:23 <dihedral> i would consider it some very good humor :-) 10:34:08 <goodger> I'm sure you would 10:34:35 <goodger> perhaps a chat room full of transport simulator enthusiasts is not the best target for such discussion 10:35:03 <dihedral> :-P 10:35:22 <dihedral> hehe - i see Muxy had some joins.. 10:35:27 <dihedral> he started sending me emails 10:35:38 <dihedral> just as "fierce" as his forum replies - LOL 10:35:48 <goodger> eh? 10:36:09 <dihedral> just some kid getting irate over nothing 10:36:21 <goodger> what was the nothing in question? 10:36:27 <goodger> I could do with some moderate amusement 10:36:45 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41099 10:39:32 <goodger> hm 10:39:48 <Wolf01> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/PopularScience/11-1936/prop_bike.jpg O_O really useful indeed 10:39:48 <dihedral> it's not really that funny 10:39:52 <goodger> he is a little disgruntled, isn't he 10:40:06 <dihedral> a wee bit yeah 10:40:48 <goodger> what's that about fixing links before the new year? 10:41:36 <dihedral> he found some links to some patches of mine, which i had removed from my server, so the links 404'd 10:41:45 <goodger> ah 10:41:47 <dihedral> and he wanted me to fix the links 10:41:50 <goodger> ¬.¬ 10:42:01 <goodger> it's the time frame I find a little annoying 10:42:36 <dihedral> "And also, instead of saying people : "hey sir, why dont you search 10:42:36 <dihedral> yourself into the forum to something we already have discuss ?", please, 10:42:36 <dihedral> because you know it, give the link : share your knowledges. But i agree, as 10:42:37 <dihedral> old forum guy (you), it's quite irritating to see newby (me) posting 10:42:39 <dihedral> something that could have been talked before..." 10:42:42 <dihedral> from his second email 10:42:59 <goodger> 0.o 10:43:08 <dihedral> i told him i dont see the need to do the work (searching) for him :-P 10:43:12 <goodger> he has a point. 10:43:27 <goodger> phpBB's search function has never worked for me 10:43:45 <dihedral> not? it worked for me, quite well on many occasions so far 10:43:59 <goodger> maybe it's my weird brain generating incorrect search terms, but phpbb's search function has never returned the correct result 10:44:26 <dihedral> i usually only give search terms, rather than links to posts 10:44:35 <dihedral> (unless it's really required) 10:44:47 <goodger> so I always conclude that the topic I searched for has not been previously discussed; this leaves me well-prepared to be shot down in flames by people going "search n00b lol" and such 10:45:04 <dihedral> hehe 10:45:31 <goodger> it's maddenning 10:47:21 <goodger> the man is probably not trying to be rude; French people seem always to sound rude no matter what they're saying, just like Germans always sound like they're shouting 10:47:43 <goodger> (though the latter effect occurs only when actually speaking German) 10:48:29 <petern> the wiki search is worse 10:48:32 <dihedral> thanks! i'll take that as a compliment :-P 10:48:45 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, might do too 10:49:15 <goodger> petern: yeah, mediawiki's search function is pretty appalling... I think it might be something to do with jimmy wales' commercial interests 10:49:23 <dihedral> goodger, anyway - i dont have a problem with that guy! it's him who has a problem with me :-D 10:49:33 <goodger> hm, true 10:54:06 * goodger resolves to develop intravenous caffeine drip 10:55:15 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:55:24 <dihedral> look what you have done! 10:55:46 *** [alt]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:56:05 <goodger> alas, poor yorick --- we hate him, dihedralo 10:56:20 <goodger> hi yorick \o/ 10:56:20 <dihedral> with a passion, goodger 10:56:48 <goodger> I don't particularly understand why 10:56:52 <dihedral> but i dont think 'hate' expresses it correctly 10:57:13 <goodger> he seems reasonably sane... could do with MPH, but sane nonetheless 10:57:48 * yorick feels like missing something 10:57:51 <dihedral> i think sanity is not relative when it comes to annoying people 10:58:10 <goodger> am I annoying? 10:58:15 <dihedral> no - not you 10:58:20 <goodger> oh, good 10:58:23 <yorick> no 10:58:29 <dihedral> ^ that kid 10:58:31 <goodger> I sometimes wonder 10:58:39 <yorick> I'm trying to ignore half of the converstation 10:58:53 <dihedral> yorick, i still thought you had put me on your ignore list 10:58:56 <yorick> ah, you too sometimes wonder :) 10:59:23 <goodger> I sometimes wonder whether some of the things I say are truly considered funny or just irritating 10:59:31 <yorick> ^^ 10:59:46 <dihedral> goodger, if it's just 'some' of the things - you dont have to worry as much :-P 10:59:57 <dihedral> for some people... 11:00:02 * dihedral looks at yorick 11:00:09 <dihedral> ... it's "most of the things" 11:00:38 <dihedral> but in all fairness - i dont think he does it on purpose 11:01:03 <goodger> heh 11:01:24 <dihedral> (which does not necessarily make it any better :-P) 11:01:32 <goodger> well, not everything I say is designed to be funny 11:01:55 <dihedral> funny is in the eye of the "beer" holder 11:02:04 <goodger> otherwise, I would be a character in a very poorly written sitcom, such as Friends 11:02:27 * dihedral thinks of Mac Guyver 11:03:26 <goodger> never seen that. the fact that selma and patty bouvier like it is enough to warn me off it 11:03:29 <dihedral> "i have a scre, a ball point pen, tweezers, and could i please have that gum you are chewing?"..... 11:03:31 * yorick discovered that the windows 7 snipping tool is in fact in vista too 11:03:34 <dihedral> *screw 11:03:42 <goodger> heh 11:04:09 <dihedral> ... boom 11:04:24 <goodger> XKCD on MacGuyver: "if I press this trigger, a small gunpowder charge will ignite, propelling a metal slug into the guard's head." 11:04:39 <dihedral> :-D 11:04:45 <goodger> randall munroe is absolutely mad 11:05:09 <dihedral> i don't think he's all to chuffed to be associated with that character 11:05:24 <goodger> but so long as he remains mad in the sense of XKCD, rather than in the sense of shooting people for fun, he can remain mad 11:05:28 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:05:30 <dihedral> he had a bunch of interviews, where people gave him little things and asked him to build something 11:05:48 <goodger> heh--- randall munroe is the author of XKCD 11:06:07 * yorick wonders why there is a depot pool, as it contains only xy and town index, which could be stored in m2 11:06:09 <dihedral> well - i mean this other guy - whoever plays Guyver 11:06:22 <goodger> *nod* 11:06:27 <dihedral> yorick, you are off-topic :-P 11:07:04 <goodger> heh 11:07:11 <yorick> no idea why depots need a town index :p 11:07:31 <goodger> they are named after the nearest town, aren't they? 11:07:39 <yorick> ah 11:08:04 <goodger> Little Fundlingchuddworth Train Depot and such 11:08:17 <yorick> that explains why it needs a town index, but still not why it needs to loop through all depots when one clicks a window 11:08:24 <yorick> instead of 1. just storing the contents in m2 11:08:27 <goodger> (who wrote that town name generator? who?!) 11:08:37 <yorick> or 2.storing the depot index in m2 11:32:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C927.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:42 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:57:31 <goodger> agh, my brain has stopped working 11:57:34 <goodger> I should have gone to bed 12:03:12 <roboboy> !logs 12:07:47 <yorick> http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 12:17:23 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DD72.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, might do too <- actually, i do have a loud voice... my friends are always complaining about that 12:27:57 *** michi_cc [57233346df@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 12:28:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 12:28:45 <goodger> it's just the texture of the language 12:30:24 <goodger> if you say "KÀtzchen sind sehr weichen!" for instance, it _sounds_ angry 12:35:33 <roboboy> gnight 12:40:03 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:43:54 <George> OTTD r 14775 finds and enables OpenGFX and enables it even if # graphicsset = opengfx in the cfg. even if I remove opengfx.obg. Only deliting opengfx*.grf returns OTTD to default graphics. graphicsset = orig_win simply does not work (error message generated - faild to select). Is it intended? 12:45:22 <yorick> what? 12:45:39 <George> To load OpenGFX by default 12:45:47 <yorick> not that I know of 12:45:51 <yorick> and it doesn't do that here 12:46:15 <George> I had no problem like that in r19692 12:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i never tried opengfx... all the previews given here are very dark and depressing 12:47:23 <yorick> no, just the ground sprites are a bit dark 12:48:20 <George> I did it a try, but did not want to use it by default. For the strange reason OpenTTD selects it as default graphics. 12:48:23 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you are changing the wrong .cfg? 12:49:32 <George> it happens even no cfg is present 12:50:09 <yorick> not in your home dir? 12:50:53 <George> yorick: yes 12:51:17 <petern> graphicsset = orig_win simply does not work (error message generated - faild to select) 12:51:26 <petern> indicates that your original graphics couldn't be used for some reason 12:52:10 <George> when I remove OpenGFX it is used without any problem. What may be wrong? 12:52:27 *** macee [~maceex86@dsl4E5C1F35.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 12:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> start "openttd -d 3", and it tells you more about what it is doing (on the console) 12:53:12 *** macee [~maceex86@dsl4E5C1F35.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 12:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> can also be more specific "openttd -d grf=3" or "openttd -d misc=3" 12:56:59 <George> it writes a lot in the screen, how can I redirect it to a file? 12:58:54 <yorick> openttd -d 3 > file 12:59:47 <George> file is empty 13:00:06 <Yexo> use 2> instead of > 13:00:16 <Alberth> or >& to capture both 13:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> not to confuse with &> ;) 13:02:10 <George> A reason for a bug found. There was a data folder in the my home directory and in the OTTD directory 13:02:33 <yorick> ^^ 13:02:38 <George> if I remove a data folder from Ottd directory it works as intended 13:07:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 13:11:21 *** Runr [~Runar@138.14.erx-lhm.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:55 *** Runr [~Runar@138.14.erx-lhm.eidsiva.net] has quit [] 13:26:08 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:39:08 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 13:47:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 13:52:34 *** Skyruner2 [~Skyruner2@ip-88-153-186-115.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 13:59:14 *** qball [~qball@ipd50a4125.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:09:13 <petern> pom te pom 14:09:26 <qball> paddy pom pom pet 14:10:17 <qball> petern: we should start a band! 14:10:48 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:12:54 *** Skyruner2 [~Skyruner2@ip-88-153-186-115.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:29 *** gryph [~gryph@0x50a1213f.hrnxx7.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:28:38 *** Runr [~Runar@138.14.erx-lhm.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 14:32:08 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:01 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-219-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> http://failblog.org/2008/12/30/grammar-lesson-fail/ <- there's something for petern ;) 14:43:37 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:44 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:56:32 <petern> :) 14:58:04 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54464e82.lns3-c12.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:59:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C927.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:16 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 15:01:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:08:25 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm45.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26:05 <petern> oh fuck 15:26:08 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: ... 15:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 15:26:40 <petern> remember that link with all the different stupid units? 15:26:52 <petern> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=405731#p405731 15:27:18 <petern> we can actually blame bjarni again... 15:27:30 <glx> as always 15:40:27 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 15:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the "progress bar" on the forums is completely useless... 15:47:07 <goodger> *nod* 15:49:39 <qball> what should it do? 15:50:18 <petern> there is one? 15:52:10 <goodger> it is an apparently ill-conceived method of gauging one's rank in the forum, by post 15:52:35 <petern> oh that 15:52:50 <petern> never look at it :) 15:59:08 <glx> and usually assholes talk more than useful people 15:59:41 <qball> that is why I my bar is completely white 15:59:49 <goodger> nice try, qball 16:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i meant when uploading afile 16:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> as attachment 16:02:12 <goodger> oh 16:02:19 <goodger> depends how big the file is. 16:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it is just an animated gif, it has no indication when the upload might be finished nor how much of the file has actually been tranfered 16:03:22 <goodger> obviously a couple of hundred kilobytes of PNG isn't going to justify it, but people apparently use phpbb with larger files also 16:03:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C927.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you are trying to say 16:20:52 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 16:21:02 <TrueBrain> Happy New Year!!! :p 16:21:33 <Wolf01> new year? what new year? 16:21:44 * TrueBrain slaps wolf01 16:21:49 <TrueBrain> in what timezone do you live? 16:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> another one? 16:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i already have enough years 16:22:30 <TrueBrain> poor Eddi|zuHause 16:22:43 <Wolf01> happy new year to you too, TrueBrain ;) 16:22:49 <TrueBrain> :) :) :) :) :) 16:23:34 <TrueBrain> so how are you all doing? :p 16:23:37 <TrueBrain> well, I am leaving ... 16:23:40 <TrueBrain> boring aint it? 16:23:46 <TrueBrain> enjoy this first day of 2009 :p 16:23:50 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish] 16:24:59 <planetmaker> happy new year all here :) 16:25:35 <yorick> happy new year pm 16:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm gonna be sick... 16:38:10 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: may I join you? 16:39:22 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry 16:45:40 <petern> hmm, so 17:07:54 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:02 <yorick> is there any nice way to convert series of tiles into series of rectangles? 17:25:22 <Sacro> use a series of conversions 17:25:46 <yorick> aha, what conversions? 17:25:56 <petern> tiles to ractangles conversions, duh 17:26:03 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:26:05 <petern> *rect :o 17:26:14 <yorick> how do they go? 17:26:24 <Sacro> from tiles 17:26:26 <petern> who knows 17:26:30 <Sacro> to rectangles 17:26:35 <petern> sacro knows :D 17:26:44 <yorick> how do I use them? 17:31:40 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:58 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:32:16 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeje153.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:34:40 <petern> glx, 14777 broke it 17:37:07 <petern> in vbs And will test all parts even in the first part is false, i suppose 17:38:57 <petern> CheckFile = FSO.FileExists(filename) 17:38:57 <petern> If CheckFile = True Then CheckFile = (FSO.GetFile(filename).DateLastModified >= FSO.GetFile(filename & ".in").DateLastModified) 17:39:01 <petern> that works for me 17:41:23 * Sacro will write you some c# :D 17:42:47 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:43:44 <Sacro> "The 10-minute fireworks display began after midnight was sounded by the chimes of Big Ben. " 17:43:50 <Sacro> the BBC really need to proofread 17:44:25 <Sacro> oh hm, i suppose after 5 reads it makes sense 17:44:35 <Sacro> should have "that" in though for better readability 17:45:31 <petern> heh 17:46:49 <goodger> it's not meant to be "that" 17:47:07 <Sacro> meh, shower! 17:47:08 <goodger> it is meant to be "after midnight was sounded by the chimes of big ben, the 10-minute fireworks display began" 17:48:30 <thingwath> Ding-dong, then boom boom. 17:49:00 <goodger> or, in the original phrasing, "boom boom after ding-dong" 17:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that is why german has clear rules about separating minor clauses by commas 17:53:24 <yorick> any reason why the distant join station patch is still not in trunk? 17:53:30 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:32 <goodger> English has them also. the BBC is apparently unaware of them 17:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "Das zehnminÃŒtige Feuerwerk begann, nachdem Mitternacht durch die Glocken von Big Ben eingeleutet wurde." 17:54:34 <goodger> *nod* 17:55:00 <goodger> putting the comma there in English would give a slightly different connotation due to the pause. 17:55:07 <goodger> but it would be a lot clearer 17:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> commas in german do not denote pauses, they denote structure of sentences 17:56:04 <yorick> they do both in dutch 17:56:30 <yorick> but it wouldn't put a comma there 17:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you usually can make pauses at commas, but that is not because the comma suggests a pause, but the higher structure that demands the comma also suggests the pause 17:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an instance of correlation vs. causality 17:58:51 <yorick> ^^ 17:59:05 <goodger> they denote structure _and_ pauses, independently, in english 17:59:09 <goodger> it's very confusing 17:59:46 <thingwath> they are confusing in every language 18:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> in absolutely no case in my 12 years of german class, there was ever the talk of "you make a comma where you would make a pause when speaking" 18:01:58 <goodger> see, this is why I cannot read German 18:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not saying the rules about commas in german are easy. they are probably quite difficult. i said they are clear. 18:02:38 <thingwath> in czech, many people simply have a list of "comma-words" and put the comma in front of them 18:03:14 <thingwath> (no, it's not how it should be done) 18:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are certain cases in german, where that would work, too. 18:03:26 <goodger> "Das zehnminutige <em>Feuerwerk</em> begann <br/> nachdem <em>Mitternacht</em> durch die <em>Glocken</em> von...." 18:03:44 <goodger> that's the sensation inside my head when I read your sentence 18:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it is a foreign language for you, after all ;) 18:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's much different if you grew into it :) 18:05:28 <goodger> I'm sure 18:07:50 <petern> hmm 18:07:58 <petern> testing max_te combined and separate 18:08:03 <petern> big discrepancy 18:08:47 <petern> can be near double the tractive effort applied 18:09:55 <petern> not that you'd mix a GEC-A 'Eurostar' with an EE 'Type 3' normally... 18:10:12 <goodger> does anyone care to define tractive effort? 18:12:12 <petern> F = P / v 18:12:30 <glx> petern: of course MS can't do boolean math like everybody else 18:12:49 <petern> neither can the openbve author :D 18:13:05 <goodger> force equals power divided by velocity? 18:13:19 <petern> yeah 18:13:27 <goodger> hmm 18:13:36 <goodger> so where does TE come into that? 18:13:47 <goodger> is it a fancy name for force? 18:13:58 <goodger> I associated it with friction 18:14:10 <petern> it's not a fancy name, it's a description 18:14:28 <petern> like air drag is a measurable force 18:15:02 <petern> maximum TE is associated with friction, yes 18:15:13 <petern> hence F is limited when velocity is 0 18:15:48 <glx> btw some debug stuff was left 18:16:38 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:44 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:18:27 <glx> fixed 18:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> friction is "just" a force, too, or is my translation engine broken? 18:18:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r14780 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix (r14777): of course VBS evaluates all parts of a boolean expression 18:19:24 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: yes it is 18:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> max te is basically the static friction between the rails and the wheels 18:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the point just before the wheels would start sliding 18:21:00 <Swallow> Either that or the maximum force the engine can deliver, whichever is lower 18:21:12 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: that's a bit lower level than what we do 18:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, you have to chose the right level of abstraction ;) 18:22:17 <goodger> right 18:22:46 <goodger> so tractive effort is a synonym for the force the engine can deliver, considering its power 18:22:51 <goodger> that makes much more sense 18:23:04 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has joined #openttd 18:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, basically 18:24:15 <goodger> goodo 18:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there are two functions limiting that force 18:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> at low speeds, the friction between wheels and rail 18:24:32 <goodger> so I see 18:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and at high speeds the power of the engine vs the air drag 18:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSetXL readme has a rather good explanation of this 18:25:48 <petern> i've surmised that despite what hertogizanasdzxd says, the current model is not so bad, just the units are imperial... 18:26:05 <goodger> heh 18:26:20 <goodger> petern: the current model is perfect, so long as the actual physics is correct... 18:26:40 <petern> there are a few magic constants that can be tweaked 18:27:02 <goodger> but yeah, obscure units doubleplusungood 18:27:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has joined #openttd 18:27:07 <petern> hhaa 18:27:54 <petern> things like lbf * 4 = N is wrong, it should be nearer 4.44 18:28:18 <goodger> there is no need to do that operation 18:28:51 <goodger> the system should be designed so that it does not arse about converting between obscure and proper units 18:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> *40/9? 18:29:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:19 <De_Ghosty> anyone remember what's the max size window support? 18:29:28 <De_Ghosty> xp 32 /vista 64? 18:29:35 <petern> max size what? 18:30:20 <petern> goodger, well you could convert all internal units to SI 18:30:23 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:29 <petern> (but velocity is problematic, as usual) 18:30:46 <goodger> how is it problematic? 18:30:50 <petern> decimals 18:31:04 <goodger> how are decimals problematic? 18:31:07 <petern> of course matching SI units to the in-game scale is pointless 18:31:16 <petern> we use integer maths :) 18:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> can't use float maths because of network play 18:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> different processors round differently, etc. 18:32:01 <goodger> I was about to refer to that as a silly presupposition 18:32:19 <goodger> luckily, I was stopped by Eddi|zuHause filling in for me 18:32:37 <goodger> so basically, nothing involving a decimal point is permissible? 18:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can interpret integers as fixed point 18:33:18 <goodger> right 18:33:34 <goodger> I have a painful feeling that I've been through this conversation before 18:33:54 <goodger> why is doing fixed-point arithmetic problematic? 18:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> celestar's gamebalance branch has a fixed point data type 18:34:21 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h72-2-8-124.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 18:34:38 <goodger> right 18:34:43 <goodger> I feel this will not lead anywhere 18:34:49 <goodger> returning to the original point: 18:35:06 <goodger> why is using SI units internally problematic? 18:35:42 <Swallow> This pdf doc may be interesting: http://www.arema.org/eseries/scriptcontent/custom/e_arema/Practical_Guide/PGChapter2.pdf 18:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in the end, fixed point arithmetics is exactly the same as unit conversion 18:36:56 <goodger> ...but a lot less messy 18:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the conversion factor is as arbitrary as any other 18:37:22 <goodger> you can use fixed-point arithmetic in a class, rather than constantly reimplementing it 18:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in the end, the number has to fit in 32 or 64 bit 18:38:07 <petern> goodger: m/s is a very 'small' unit 18:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> where an SI based system would use 10^x conversion factors, fixed point arithmetics would use 2^x 18:38:50 <goodger> oh, I see, that's essentially the complete opposite of what I understood by conversion factors 18:38:55 <petern> 1 m/s = 0.447 mph 18:39:09 <petern> err 18:39:12 <petern> no 18:39:16 * goodger raises eyebrow 18:39:17 <petern> 0.447 m/s = 1 mph 18:39:48 <petern> without using decimals, 2 mph granularity sucks 18:43:42 <petern> incidentally 18:44:40 <petern> m/s is almost but not quite the same as internal-tile-units/second 18:46:27 <goodger> I think it would help if this game were to scale 18:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it is to scale... 18:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> at least 5 of them :p 18:47:37 <goodger> precisely :P 18:51:15 <petern> real life scale? :p 18:56:51 <goodger> would be nice 18:56:57 <petern> impossible in this game 18:57:17 <petern> impossible for any game 18:57:50 <goodger> houses are the same length as train carriages in this game, and major population centres are situated about 250m apart by my reckoning... 18:58:08 <goodger> it is easily possible to have correct scale in "any game" 18:58:24 <petern> but tedious 18:58:35 <petern> so it becomes not a game, but "merely" a simulation 18:59:09 <goodger> you're saying all the fun would suddenly evaporate if the game was to scale? 18:59:18 <petern> yes 18:59:24 <goodger> explain 18:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> there is nothing wrong about having different scales 18:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they just have to be clearly defined 18:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which they aren't 19:01:06 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:01:28 <petern> well, if, for example, you used m/s as your basic velocity unit 19:01:51 <petern> what do you represent s by? 19:02:16 <petern> obviously m can be represented graphically quite simply 19:02:30 <goodger> some user-configurable multiple of a second (variable time compression FTW) 19:10:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:18 <petern> hehe, scaling to ttd's day means a tick stop (1/33th of a second) is 19 minutes 19:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you could approach it something like this: when a train running 160km/h can stop in 1km distance, how many seconds does that take? and go on from there: how many tiles and how many ticks should such a stop take? 19:18:08 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28EF45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:18:38 <petern> that's meaningless :) 19:20:40 <petern> hmm 19:21:32 <De_Ghosty> what revision was pbs implemented? 19:28:25 <petern> several 19:30:00 <yorick> 13926 was the first 19:30:03 <De_Ghosty> which one was final 19:30:05 <yorick> it took 42 19:30:18 <De_Ghosty> kk thx 19:30:48 <yorick> and a whole lot of fixes after that 19:31:09 <yorick> try 13976 19:31:32 <petern> hmm, calculating it for 1 day = 1 game year seems to work reasonably well 19:31:41 <petern> wasn't that the set up for that timetable patch? 19:44:41 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:47 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 19:45:31 <petern> hmm, no it doesn't, i did the maths wrong :) 19:47:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has joined #openttd 19:48:27 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:52:30 *** welshdragon is now known as em 19:52:38 *** em is now known as englisghrose 19:52:41 *** englisghrose is now known as englishrose 19:54:10 <petern> how long does a eurostar take to get up to speed? 19:54:29 <Sacro> up or downhill? 19:54:38 <petern> flat 19:54:54 <thingwath> free fall :o) 19:54:56 <Sacro> Performance Metrics: 16 kW/tonne / 0.98 tonnes/seat / 15.90 kW/seat 19:55:23 <petern> Sacro, for a long or short train? 19:55:27 <Sacro> petern: yes 19:55:30 <petern> wrong 19:55:48 <petern> they both have 4 powered cars, just less unpowered 19:55:48 <Sacro> http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/eurostar.html 19:56:11 <petern> therefore kW/tonne varies 19:56:15 <Sacro> hmm 19:56:23 <Sacro> that's probably quoted unformatted 19:57:27 *** englishrose is now known as welshdragon 19:59:06 <petern> "Eurostar's power to weight ratio is still the worst in the TGV family." heh 20:03:13 <petern> i guess they don't use the third rail pick up anymore... 20:06:28 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-224-236.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:55 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:55 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-130-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:57 <petern> omnomnom 20:09:00 <petern> brandy cream :D 20:12:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.214.226] has joined #openttd 20:14:09 <petern> Converting drag to horsepower using the "familiar" 1 HP = 550 ft-#/sec and the "familiar" 60 mph = 88ft/sec : 100 mph is 147 ft/sec 20:14:12 <petern> WHY 20:14:14 <petern> WHY DO PEOPLE USE THESE UNITS 20:15:32 <qball> what? feet/sec 20:18:21 <Prof_Frink> petern: openttd should use fff. 20:18:52 <Prof_Frink> Much better than this SI nonsense. 20:19:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.212.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:44 <valhallasw> Prof_Frink: furlongs! <3 20:27:07 <Prof_Frink> Quite. 20:27:17 <Prof_Frink> And what are the other two? 20:27:52 <petern> firkin and fortnight 20:32:12 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 20:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it possible that knight rider gets worse every episode? 20:33:52 <glx> old or new? 20:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean it began at an incredibly low level already... 20:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> new 20:42:48 *** Yexo_ [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 20:43:05 *** Yexo is now known as Guest408 20:43:05 *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo 20:47:56 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:47:56 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:49:24 *** Guest408 [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:19 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:54:35 *** Mortal is now known as Guest411 20:54:35 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 21:01:18 *** Guest411 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:49 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:03 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:13:11 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:24 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:21:22 *** Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EA49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:49 <petern> ahh 21:23:01 <petern> i think i got air drag sorted out 21:23:28 <petern> it was an order of magnitude too low 21:24:24 <petern> class 43 tops out at 145 mph which is not far off 21:24:54 <glx> that's a silly speed unit ;) 21:24:59 <petern> yup 21:25:43 <petern> 64 m/s 21:26:13 <petern> the current drag_coefficient values are totally wrong, of course 21:27:00 <petern> i've taken some short cuts with magic conversion values which lessens the number of conversions needed 21:27:01 <goodger> of course, the 43's top speed is the top speed attainable on the decaying tracks that go from Paddington to Reading 21:27:21 <goodger> on other tracks it will probably be different 21:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the ICE3 can't even reach its top speed on brand new tracks 21:29:04 <petern> according to everyone's favourite 100% reliable source the absolute max speed is 148mph 21:29:35 <petern> could be tweaked by adjusting the drag coefficient 21:29:51 <goodger> are you sure that 3mph absolutely needs to be shaved off? 21:29:55 <petern> nope 21:30:01 <petern> seeing as it's limited to 125 anyway 21:30:11 <goodger> well then 21:30:29 <petern> i tested with the speed limit removed as the max reachable speed gives a better indication of whether the values are correctish 21:32:01 <petern> 145 is a much better value than 225 21:32:29 <goodger> *nod* 21:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> now... a 500t coal train dragged by an E94 up a 3% slope? 21:33:50 <goodger> 40mph 21:34:15 <petern> god i'm sad 21:34:22 <petern> i love using spreadsheets to model these things ;) 21:34:23 <goodger> *nod* 21:34:57 <petern> heh, a eurostar drops below its max_te at 100mph 21:35:00 <petern> that's... fast 21:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what? slightly more than 60km/h? 21:35:33 <petern> er, slightly year 21:35:37 <petern> 160km/h 21:36:45 * goodger could make an ironic joke about Eddi|zuHause's knowledge of the imperial system being akin to goodger's knowledge of the long scale at this time, but he is too tired 21:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i was referring to the 40mph 21:37:30 <goodger> ah 21:37:40 <goodger> in that case, yes, about 65-ish 21:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 40*1.6, but i can't calculate anymore 21:37:52 <goodger> multiply by 1.6 21:38:24 <goodger> 64.37376 kph 21:38:41 <goodger> hurrah for google's intimate familiarity with significant figures 21:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> " Also ich hab ja mal in den 70er Jahren als Stellwerker in Karl-Marx-Stadt/Siegmar gewerkelt, da waren gerade die ersten 250er im Probebetrieb z. B. mit den "Wismut-ZÃŒgen" aus Pirna nach SeelingstÀdt. Grenzlast 2060 t mit 2 x 242, auf dem Tharandter Berg die HÀlfte! Die 250 brachte auÃer auf besagter Rampe den Zug dann allein bis Werdau, die Regellasten wurden dann aber auf 1500 t begrenzt (zum Vergleich: "Eisenschwein" E 94/254 - 21:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 1400 t; Ludmilla 132 - 1300 t, 242 solo 1030 t). Auf der Thrandter Steigung war die E 94 mit 600 t, die E 42 mit 515 t dabei!" 21:40:12 <Prof_Frink> Quite. 21:40:16 <goodger> indeed 21:40:42 <petern> google's unit understanding is great stuff 21:40:59 <petern> hmm, of course, ICE 3 has less power than a eurostar 21:40:59 <goodger> I was just thinking, "what I'd really like now is for Eddi|zuHause to paste some German esoterica into the channel" 21:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> figures of different engines and their pulled trains on the "Thrandter Steige" 21:41:08 <goodger> petern: it is. but still, significant figures are good 21:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> where the regular track goes up to 2.5%, and some sections up to 3% 21:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> on the main track, the E 94 drags 1400t, and on the steep part 600t 21:42:32 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: do you mean "hauls"? "drag" has a specific meaning in mechanics 21:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yees 21:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean "hauls" 21:42:49 <goodger> righto 21:42:52 <petern> according to my maths, the ICE3 tops out at 330km/h 21:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what Mark Twain said about "Zug" :p 21:43:04 <goodger> nope 21:43:11 <petern> hm 21:43:13 <petern> bit off 21:43:18 <Prof_Frink> Move Every Zug? 21:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: not quite :p 21:43:38 <goodger> nope 21:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html <- search for "zug" 21:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "Zug means Pull, Tug, Draught, Procession, March, Progress, Flight, Direction, Expedition, Train, Caravan, Passage, Stroke, Touch, Line, Flourish, Trait of Character, Feature, Lineament, Chess-move, Organ-stop, Team, Whiff, Bias, Drawer, Propensity, Inhalation, Disposition: but that thing which it does not mean -- when all its legitimate pennants have been hung on, has not been discovered yet." 21:45:35 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, what's the pertinent specs for the E94? 21:45:40 <petern> power/mass/maxte 21:45:45 <goodger> heh 21:46:18 <petern> E 94 does not seem very searchable 21:46:28 *** Dextro [~Dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 21:46:47 *** Dextro is now known as d3x7r0 21:47:24 *** d3x7r0 [~Dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has left #openttd [] 21:47:29 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:47:31 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet's readme says 4400hp and 393kN 21:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to miss the mass 21:48:02 <Rubidium> as if the DBset's stats are the real stats... 21:49:46 <petern> allegedly 21:49:55 <petern> he always made out it was realistic 21:50:08 <petern> apart from that bug in ttdpatch that got fixed... 21:50:43 <Rubidium> what about the wrong power/TE for the ICE3 in DBset? 21:51:30 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeje153.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll have to discuss that with The Man himself, i am just quoting what it says in the readme 21:51:42 <petern> as i said 21:51:44 <petern> apart from that bug in ttdpatch that got fixed... 21:52:29 *** canhoto [~dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 21:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRB_Baureihe_E_94 <- anyway, that's the first google result, it has stats on the right side 21:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Mass: 118,7t 21:53:17 <petern> yeah 21:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> long range power: 3000kW 21:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> short range power: 3300kW 21:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> tractive effort: 363kN 21:53:38 <petern> that's about right 21:53:49 <petern> (in dbsetxl) 21:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i mistyped that number earlier 21:54:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not going to explicitly tell him bugs in his stuff when he can't be bothered to tell what bugs he found in OpenTTD's NewGRF implementation 21:54:10 <petern> heh, it would do 237 km/h allegedly 21:54:21 <petern> with 500t on flat 21:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, i had that kind of discussion with him lately, too. 21:54:39 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:40 <petern> Rubidium, well, mixing sets is a bug.... 21:54:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I know 21:55:04 <petern> right... now to emulate a 3% slope... 21:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i think for flat land the design was to pull 2000t 21:56:46 *** canhoto [~dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has quit [] 21:56:47 <petern> uh huh 21:57:51 <petern> 3% slope, 500t, 56 km/h 21:57:59 <petern> or there abouts 21:58:15 <petern> more like 60km/h 21:58:46 <petern> 2000t won't move up 3% 21:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that sounds about right 22:01:05 <petern> so i just need to document these magic numbers... 22:01:31 <petern> like the magic 2669 22:01:39 <yorick> "loading game failed, (undefined string)" 22:01:48 <petern> power * 2669 / speed, obvious, eh? 22:02:46 <Rubidium> *3.6/1.6? 22:03:05 <Rubidium> and that times 100 and then divided by 9.81 or so? 22:03:10 <petern> no :) 22:03:26 *** canhoto [~dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 22:05:42 <canhoto> Hi there guys, mind if I ask a question? 22:06:03 <Rubidium> you already did... 22:06:30 <canhoto> ok, I'll rephrase to a second question then 22:08:05 <canhoto> I was just wondering if there's something wrong with the svn server since I've been trying to get the source code for some time and it's kind of slow 22:09:10 <Rubidium> which protocol do you use? http:// or svn:// ? 22:09:16 <petern> it's (power * 746) / (speed / 1.6 * 2.23), or something 22:09:41 <canhoto> svn 22:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what's 2.23 there? 22:09:59 <petern> mph to m/s 22:10:14 <petern> hmm 22:10:18 <petern> have i done it wrong again? :( 22:10:51 <Rubidium> canhoto: there seems to be nothing wrong there 22:11:04 <Rubidium> canhoto: what are you checking out exactly (full url)? 22:11:05 <canhoto> strange... 22:11:19 <canhoto> probably my router showing his age or something 22:11:27 <petern> should be / 2.23 22:11:37 <petern> the constant i have is right 22:12:29 <petern> but anyway, that's one conversion multiplication instead of 3... 22:12:31 <canhoto> svn.openttd.org/trunk 22:12:39 <canhoto> just tried with http and worked like a charm 22:13:06 <petern> hmm, instead of 5, in fact 22:13:25 <Rubidium> svn should really be faster and it isn't slow for me 22:13:57 <canhoto> it's probably my router or my firewall, thanks anyway 22:20:44 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 22:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "Im BAHN-REPORT 1/2005 steht ein Artikel ÃŒber den Lok-Wechsel auf der RÃŒbelandbahn (Harz). Die bisher eingesetzten DR-Loks 251/171 hatten bergwÀrts bei 63 %o eine Höchstlast von 300 t !. (Zum GlÃŒck waren die ZÃŒge nur talswÀrts beladen.)" 22:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> some day i need to model that railway ;) 22:21:50 <petern> heh 22:21:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14781 /trunk/ (52 files in 4 dirs): 22:21:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Change: someone changed _cur_year; so update it in a few hardcoded places... happy new year! 22:21:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix (r11790): a few instances were forgotten. 22:22:05 <petern> hm 22:22:15 <petern> yeah, 3% slopes don't work so well 22:22:24 <petern> cos they're too short 22:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> like i suggested earlier, as long as one part of the train is on a slope, it should take that slope for the entire train 22:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not some weird kind of average value 22:23:39 <petern> this 500t BR 194 tops out at 75 km/h 22:23:43 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 22:23:52 <petern> but takes a long slope with no flats to get it all on 3% 22:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the slope grade should not be dependent on train length 22:24:51 <petern> it's that stupid scale thing again 22:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet wagons have too little load, i think 22:25:43 <petern> i used goods wagosn with 80 crates 22:25:47 <petern> 50t per wagon 22:25:49 <petern> hmm 22:25:53 <petern> freight weight! 22:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> someone said 1 crate equals half a ton 22:26:24 <petern> yes 22:26:34 <petern> 40t + the wagon weight 22:26:59 <petern> okay, 1900t train 22:27:03 <petern> it stalls 22:27:24 <petern> hah! 357kN vs 571kN 22:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> someone in this forum i am reading said 15 4-axle hopper wagons should have 1200-1300t 22:28:06 <petern> well 22:28:08 <petern> ships are worse ;) 22:28:35 <petern> let's try a run up 22:28:49 <petern> hehe 22:28:51 <petern> no chance 22:28:56 <petern> and that was without the speed limiter 22:32:08 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:09 <petern> was that 300t up 6.3%? 22:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that was a BR 251 (not in the set) 22:35:43 <petern> hmm 22:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> those were engines specifically designed for that route (RÃŒbelandbahn) 22:36:25 <petern> hm 22:36:50 <petern> your E94 could do that at 57km/h 22:37:05 <petern> allegedly 22:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the actual problem with that route was, that the track was electrified due to its steepness, but it was isolated from the rest of the electric network, so they couldn't take the 15kV / 16 2/3Hz, but instead took 25kV / 50Hz from the local power station 22:40:48 <petern> too many commas! :o 22:41:11 <petern> so it had more power... 22:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, people keep telling me that my sentences get too long ;) 22:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> they could not reuse any of the regular engines anyway, so they designed completely new ones 22:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they are not much stronger than the E 94. BR 251: 3300kW, 373kN 22:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> mass: 124t 22:45:29 *** gryph [~gryph@0x50a1213f.hrnxx7.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Weimar_251_012.JPG&filetimestamp=20040422073224 <- they are not that beautiful, though 22:56:39 <Rubidium> it doesn't need to be beautiful to be effective 22:57:09 * Rubidium dislikes the looks of the newer Shinkansens, but they are more silent and faster 22:57:23 <Rubidium> and less noisy for the neighbourhood 22:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> a freight engine for steep slopes is not exactly comparable to a super high speed train :p 22:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> have i mentioned this year already that i needed diagonal bridges? 22:59:47 <Rubidium> so code them? 23:00:30 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DD72.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:01:57 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/Treham%20Transport,%2025th%20Mar%202395.png <- could use diagonal bridges too 23:03:27 <Rubidium> and signalled bridges and tunnels 23:04:35 <Rubidium> still it's more fun without as that makes the optimisation process more fun ;) 23:06:46 <petern> Sacro! Sacro! 23:15:57 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 23:21:09 *** mortal`` is now known as mortal 23:22:49 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like there was some serious restructuring going on since the last screenshot i saw (assuming that's still the same game) 23:34:04 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 23:34:09 *** mortal is now known as Guest436 23:34:09 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 23:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> why has that picture so odd dimensions? 8192x4096 minus one row of void tiles? 23:37:18 <Rubidium> if the last screenshot was after the 13th of July 2007 then it's likely the same game 23:37:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: looks like it yes 23:38:16 <Rubidium> 64 in X and 32 in Y sounds quite familiar 23:39:10 <petern> sigh, openbve developer based their decision to use & version && on a benchmark program 23:39:14 <petern> *versus 23:39:24 <petern> stated that & was faster on dual core cpus 23:39:54 <petern> that code needs tronification :) 23:40:13 *** Guest436 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:32 <petern> Rubidium: is that one of your 'busier than openttdcoop' games? 23:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the one that you complained about being less efficient when using YAPP 23:41:10 <Sacro> petern: ? 23:42:09 <Rubidium> well... the X times more transported cargo over 4 quarters than Pile Final game, where X is nearing 2 at the moment 23:42:47 <Sacro> petern: you rang m'lady 23:44:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the two bridges east of Treham South (south end of longest aqueduct) are to force YAPP to choose the platforms that are further away 23:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't ever do this coop style gameplay 23:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: shouldn't you instead increase the blocked platform penalty? 23:45:29 <Rubidium> well... that means changing other penalties too 23:45:41 <Rubidium> which makes YAPP wait more at other junctions 23:55:48 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: :ZZzz,,..] 23:57:58 *** canhoto [~dextro@lx1-84-90-228-135.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]