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timeout: 480 seconds] 04:38:23 *** goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-163.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:38:50 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-164-137-215.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53:39 *** amixppc [~Michal@062016234094.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd 04:58:58 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:59:32 *** racetrack [~rob@lena.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:09:43 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 05:09:43 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:46 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 05:33:34 <De_Ghosty> the tree gowing thing is awsome 05:33:40 <De_Ghosty> when you just make a giant map 05:33:40 <Forked> good morning 05:33:46 <De_Ghosty> and press forward 05:37:26 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:47 *** Mortal 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#openttd 07:04:23 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:37 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:11:37 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:40 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 07:16:44 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 07:16:44 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:30 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad51a52.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:30 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad51a52.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:31 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 07:35:19 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 07:35:20 *** bleepy is now known as Guest365 07:35:20 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 07:41:31 *** Guest365 [bleepy@5ad51a52.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:58 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:13 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 08:03:26 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:41 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 08:08:55 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:11 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 08:15:51 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:38 *** Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:25:10 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 08:37:38 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:49:50 <Arsonide> So 08:49:58 <Arsonide> Apparently there are some high resolution graphics for this somewhere 08:50:18 <Arsonide> But I'm not familiar with the terminology you guys use...so I'm not even sure what I'm looking for. 08:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly you mean "32bpp extra zoom levels", but they are not supported in the official version 09:00:38 <Arsonide> They're gorgeous though 09:00:46 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:06:23 <Arsonide> I assume using new graphics isn't allowed in multiplayer games? 09:06:41 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:06:41 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 09:11:46 <petern> why not? 09:12:54 <Arsonide> In most games using modified files in multiplayer is prohibited. I guess it would affect this game less though. 09:13:03 <Arsonide> I was asking if it was or not 09:14:05 <Forked> modified files != newgrf I belive.. modified is probably "I changed the source code to cheat"? 09:16:12 <Arsonide> And newgrf is the term you use for these 32bpp extra zoom level graphics? 09:17:57 <petern> no 09:26:33 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:26:33 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:34 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 09:26:45 <TSC> Arsonide: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/NewGRF explains newgrf 09:29:36 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad9f842.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:29:37 *** bleepy is now known as Guest370 09:29:37 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 09:34:37 *** Guest370 [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:19 <planetmaker> hm... would it be possible to add a direct download link to the tars currently availble on Bananas? 09:42:06 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:42:06 *** bleepy is now known as Guest371 09:42:06 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 09:43:25 *** [wito] [~wito@212251244230.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 09:45:37 *** [wito] is now known as H 09:45:37 <H> Hello. :) 09:45:53 <Forked> or you could have tried: /me e l l o . 09:45:54 *** H is now known as [wito] 09:46:18 <[wito]> I accidentally my nick. :P 09:47:12 <[wito]> anyway, has anyone had any success with express lines, e.g. to an airport, where the trains only load (and don't unload) on the way to the gathering point? 09:47:42 *** Guest371 [bleepy@5ad9f842.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:53:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E098.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:57:20 <Timitry> Just use normal load + no unloading orders for the normal stations, and transfer orders at the airport 10:01:13 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 10:01:44 <[wito]> Well 10:01:50 <[wito]> given stations A B C and airport D 10:02:09 <[wito]> with those orders, wouldn't that lead to loading at A, unloading and loading at B, etc. until transfer at D? 10:02:34 <[wito]> What I want is passengers from A, B and C delivered at D 10:02:48 <[wito]> without passengers from A at B or from B at C 10:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no, because you tell it to "not unload" at B 10:03:05 <[wito]> there is a no unloading order? 10:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in 0.7.0, in the dropdown with "full load" 10:04:11 <[wito]> ah 10:04:17 <[wito]> I have 0.6.3 10:06:40 <[wito]> Also, am I understanding the documentation correctly in that station_spread is safe for huge values as long as you are using YAPF? 10:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not ;) 10:08:50 <[wito]> heh 10:08:56 <[wito]> large+sane, then? 10:09:03 <[wito]> (16-20) 10:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo delivery from houses to stations is probably the most influental part with station spread 10:09:33 <energetic> cargo from houses? 10:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> passengers? mail? 10:10:01 * energetic checks definition of cargo.... 10:10:10 <energetic> thought it was cargo==goods 10:10:13 <energetic> never mind 10:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if you have a halfway modern computer, you should not have any real problems with station spreaD 10:11:06 <energetic> err my bad cargo=payload != goods 10:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what a payload is 10:12:20 <energetic> great :) we be learning both something today ;) 10:13:15 <energetic> i was hoping on a scret trick to generate goods out of houses there 10:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you are misinterpreting my sentencethen 10:13:52 <energetic> no, i was using the wrong definition of cargo ;) 10:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the other sentence 10:16:35 <energetic> which? 10:20:01 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-160.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 10:22:26 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:48 <[wito]> I say! 10:22:54 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:23:02 <[wito]> 0.7.0b1 is quite a lift from 0.6.3 ^_^ 10:23:31 <[wito]> Now, if I could just figure out how PBS works, I might be able to build me some bypass tracks and express lanes! 10:23:57 <Noldo> put signals on safe waiting positions 10:24:02 <energetic> y 10:24:11 <energetic> i hate typing in the wrong window 10:24:19 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:05 <planetmaker> Now, if I could just figure out how PBS works, I might be able to build me some bypass tracks and express lanes! 10:27:06 <planetmaker> [11:23] <Noldo> put signals on safe waiting positions <-- there and only there :) 10:27:19 <Noldo> good point :) 10:27:51 <planetmaker> :) 10:28:18 * planetmaker remembers several thread where people had problems with exactly that concept, ignoring the "not there" ;) 10:28:51 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:35 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 10:29:35 *** bleepy is now known as Guest374 10:29:35 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 10:29:39 <Ammler> station_spread warning is obsolete ;-) 10:30:15 *** Guest374 [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:42 <planetmaker> wrt speed probably not. Though I don't care :P 10:30:44 <Ammler> (hmm, scroll down next time) 10:34:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E098.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:37 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 10:35:13 <Ammler> yeah, you need around 3 pbs lines to replace a good old signal line :-) 10:35:40 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051041190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:27 <petern> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3035179432_37bcfc74de.jpg 10:36:49 <Noldo> yours? 10:37:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 10:37:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:39:30 <petern> unfortunately not 10:39:37 <[wito]> hmm 10:39:47 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm86.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 10:40:01 <[wito]> it appears my junction of choice (the cloverleaf) sort of breaks down with YAPP 10:40:30 <[wito]> that could be because the inner tracks aren't long enough, tho', and thus gives no safe waiting positions. :/ 10:40:42 <Timitry> look at this page: 10:40:43 <Timitry> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/User:Timitry/4-way_junctions 10:40:48 <Timitry> just created it 10:41:00 <Timitry> and use the SECOND cloverleaf! 10:41:08 <Timitry> as written there... 10:41:44 <[wito]> ye 10:42:10 <[wito]> it's a bit... 10:42:18 <[wito]> involved. :P 10:43:17 <petern> argh 10:43:20 <petern> junction examples :( 10:44:01 <[wito]> cool! 10:44:04 <[wito]> Aqueducts! 10:44:21 <Ammler> Timitry: you should let trains using your junctions ;-) 10:44:22 <petern> cool, someone who can spell it ;) 10:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Timitry: why does it say "3 way" on the heading but then show "4 way" pictures? 10:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate the opengfx rails... 10:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> they are too dark, and they look like rendered/anti-aliased without proper hinting, so everything gets somehow fuzzy 10:51:49 <petern> heh, yeah 10:53:09 <Noldo> beats a black box 10:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> on the contrary, the existence of this "bad" track prevents designing a proper track graphic 10:54:21 <Ammler> did someone already make bad experience with path_backoff_interval = 1 ? 10:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that do? 10:54:45 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: how? 10:55:13 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: it tells the train, how long it should wait to search for a new path 10:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: as in "we already have this one, we should focus on missing sprites first" 10:55:17 <Ammler> afaik 10:55:34 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: that's just delaying 10:55:35 <Ammler> default is 20 10:56:06 <Ammler> which we think is very high 10:56:59 <petern> you would 10:57:05 <petern> it's there for a reason, though 10:57:30 <Singaporekid> Is anyone still using IE6? 10:57:42 <Ammler> hmm, someone changed it on a 2k trains map 10:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it is the time to wait to retry reserving a path after one reservation failed, right? 10:57:51 <Ammler> he didn't see a difference 10:57:56 <Timitry> petern: "argh, junction examples :(" <--- still better than the crap currently on the wiki, and it's not for advanced players, anyway, and those are tutorials that might help new players to develop their own junctions 10:58:30 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was one of the reasons for some to not like pbs on fast tracks. 10:58:32 <Timitry> Eddi|zuHause: "why does it say "3 way" on the heading but then show "4 way" pictures?" ---> Copied the 3-way page, it's now fixed, thanks 10:59:19 <Ammler> with "1", they behave like the ususal signals 11:04:53 <[wito]> well 11:05:06 <[wito]> YAPP is going to take some getting used to 11:08:34 <Ammler> Timitry: junctions in use: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Junctionary 11:08:51 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:15 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> a few general rules of thumb with YAPP: 1) forget everything you know about signals, 2) replace entry signals with one-way signals, 3) replace two-way-exit signals with two-way path signals facing the station, remove one-way-exit signals, 4) less is more in many cases 11:10:00 <[wito]> Eddi|zuHause: the first one is the toughest to get your head around. :P 11:10:40 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: 2way signals on terminus stations are just eye-candy 11:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i like eye candy ;) 11:11:11 <[wito]> Ammler: that's only true with YAPP, no? 11:11:19 <[wito]> With YAPF it's still sensible, innit? 11:11:23 <Ammler> [wito]: of course :-) 11:11:45 <Ammler> " a few general rules of thumb with YAPP" 11:11:49 <[wito]> anyway, Ammler, got a 4-track terminus that demonstrates good YAPP usage? ;) 11:12:52 <Timitry> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Railway_stations#Advanced_Terminus 11:12:55 <Timitry> Maybe? 11:12:57 <Ammler> "we" do not work with templates ;-) 11:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> before: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png 11:13:05 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 11:13:14 <Timitry> just to give you an idea, of course 11:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> after: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%201.%20Jul%201981.png 11:14:14 <Timitry> But you could just do like that with 2 more bays: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Railway_stations#Terminus , and you might want to use safe waiting positions for the exits 11:14:36 <[wito]> huh 11:14:42 <dihedral> ^^ 11:14:49 <[wito]> Re: #Advanced_Terminus 11:14:53 <[wito]> The 10-bay one 11:14:53 <[wito]> wow 11:15:37 <Timitry> ugly 2*45°-curves 11:15:39 <Ammler> if you add safe waiting, you have also to double the line 11:16:06 <dihedral> else you lose a part of the game ^^ 11:16:14 <Ammler> :-) 11:16:35 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.57] has joined #openttd 11:17:10 <Ammler> safe waiting is like removing a signal on a line 11:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> a terminus station of mine: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2018.%20Dez%201982.png 11:18:53 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: do you try to build "junctions" only at stations? 11:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:19:06 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has left #openttd [] 11:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> mostly 11:19:21 <Ammler> "belugas" style ;-) 11:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> err... 11:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 11:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> except this one: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png 11:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> was a "very few towns" game, so there was no way to place a station near there ;) 11:21:00 <Ammler> I really enjoyed the first cargodest game with celestar, as we tried to build also that style 11:21:01 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause: that's a nice one 11:21:14 <Ammler> it is not very liked in coop zone. 11:21:15 <[wito]> pah 11:21:34 <[wito]> these stations and such makes my networks look almost childish in comparison. :( 11:22:24 <dihedral> just takes time wito 11:22:30 <Ammler> [wito]: it isn't the 1. game from Eddi|zuHause ;-) 11:22:39 <[wito]> hehe 11:22:58 <Ammler> !s/./st/ 11:25:36 <Ammler> dbg: [sprite] Ignoring 1200 unused extra bytes from the sprite from /nars2w at position 2325874 11:26:27 <Ammler> does it help to report such things to pikka? 11:32:26 <Ammler> hmm, there is a bugfix release between... 11:33:14 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:33:14 *** bleepy is now known as Guest379 11:33:14 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 11:33:27 *** Guest379 [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BC59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:53 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:37:53 *** bleepy is now known as Guest381 11:37:53 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 11:39:15 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=42108 <-- OMG, it's a wiki! 11:40:32 <SpComb> a wikipedia! 11:41:48 <[wito]> mail and goods are only "cash cows", ya? 11:41:54 <[wito]> or do they affect town growth? 11:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they affect town growth like any other transport service 11:44:17 *** Guest381 [bleepy@5ad456ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:26 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:38 <[wito]> ah, ok 11:44:43 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:45:58 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:32 <[wito]> wait 11:46:47 <[wito]> are you saying that iron ore delivered to a city steel mill will affect growth=? 11:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:47:04 <Noldo> if it's close enough? 11:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (if you want a "realism" argument there: the steel mill provides jobs, so it attracts its workers to move into the town) 11:47:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.201.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:58 <[wito]> actually, steel mills accept passengers from the get-go, for whatever reason 11:48:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.205.30] has joined #openttd 11:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that is unrelated ;) 11:48:26 <[wito]> so I guess Power Station would be a better example. :) 11:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and you never heard of the famous soylent green steel? 11:49:10 <Zahl> hmm... could faulty newgrfs cause memleaks? 11:49:27 <[wito]> soylent steel, eh? 11:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Zahl: no, grfs have only limited storage space 11:50:08 <Zahl> hm ok 11:55:00 <Zahl> Eddi|zuHause: which os are you running? 11:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> why does that matter? 11:55:31 <dihedral> depending on the os, towns grow faster 11:55:58 <dihedral> + you get grf's for windows *w.grf which do not run on linux or mac :-D 11:56:10 <Zahl> well someone has to tell me its either normal that the game constantly uses more mem (about 8k per second with a big game) or tell me its my computer :P 11:56:58 <Rubidium> Zahl: as long as I can't reproduce it, I can't fix it 11:56:59 <dihedral> are you just missing mem or can you see that it is openttd? 11:57:19 <Zahl> Rubidium: i can send you my savegame... but as you already said, it might be a windows issue 11:57:28 <Zahl> dihedral: i can watch it in the taskmanager 11:57:52 <dihedral> well - if Rubidium looked at it ;-) 11:57:58 <Zahl> dihedral: it starts at ~30Meg and goes up to like 200 if i leave it running long enough 11:58:00 <Rubidium> the information the task manager shows can be misleading 11:58:26 <Zahl> http://cod.spieleplanet.eu/testsave.sav 11:58:39 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 11:58:46 <dihedral> Zahl: it's not the savegame! 11:58:56 <dihedral> oh - wait - you run a patched client? 11:59:19 <Zahl> dihedral: yes, but also happens in the trunk version 11:59:29 <Zahl> and the only think that i modifies is pretty much ticks per day 11:59:44 <Ammler> isn't it just that every cargo packet produce mem? 11:59:47 <dihedral> yes but? on a new game it also happensin trunk? 12:00:24 <Ammler> so you might have a lot waiting cargos :-) 12:00:52 <Zahl> dihedral: seems so, but i did not play a recent version with that many trains.. but anyways... loading this savegame in the trunk version should not behave like that anyway shoud it? 12:01:29 <dihedral> you play a patched client 12:01:29 <dihedral> totally not interesting 12:01:55 <dihedral> and you got Rubidiums opinion on it already - you should valuethat 12:02:21 <dihedral> rather than running around to everybody else who dares to engage in the conversation 12:02:25 <Zahl> well it will take me some time to get a savegame as big as that one in trunk but i'll try :-O 12:02:38 <dihedral> how many trains? 12:02:48 <Zahl> about 1k i think 12:03:25 <dihedral> then you could download a sav from openttdcoop games 12:03:48 <Ammler> Zahl: your save works with trunk 12:03:53 <planetmaker> indeed. E.g. get #131. It's only 600 or so, but 600 vehicles, too 12:04:06 <Zahl> i'll try that 12:04:12 <Ammler> uses 100% of my cpu 12:04:18 <planetmaker> :O 12:05:09 <Ammler> well 70% 12:05:40 <Ammler> but no mem 12:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know "no ma'am" 12:06:18 <dihedral> Zahl: works steady and fine for me 12:06:38 <Zahl> ... 12:06:44 <dihedral> but i am on a mac, so if that should be a win issue i dont know 12:07:00 <dihedral> if the issue is related to win - you just lost ^^ 12:07:51 <dihedral> and that is a clean version of OpenTTD 12:10:43 <Zahl> well i got a ottdcoop game now, same thing with recent trunk version... 12:11:00 <Zahl> ok using newgrfs 12:11:13 <Zahl> i'll leave it running for an hour or so 12:11:14 <Rubidium> Zahl: even a normal game without newgrfs and/or vehicles causes the same behaviour? 12:11:14 <dihedral> unpatched game i hope 12:11:21 <Zahl> to see it it stays like that in the ling run 12:11:58 <Zahl> Rubidium: problem is i don't have a bug game with a recent clean trunk version... it will take me some time to achieve that, but i will try ;) 12:12:00 <Ammler> how long does it take to have "the effect"? 12:12:03 <Zahl> big* 12:12:03 <dihedral> Zahl: what os (exactly) 12:12:10 <Zahl> winxp sp3 12:12:35 <dihedral> then i should be able to reproduce that when i get home 12:12:38 <dihedral> or at least try 12:12:46 <dihedral> and i will not use any patches 12:12:53 <dihedral> if you patch your game that is your own fault ^^ 12:13:18 <Ammler> :-) 12:13:27 <Zahl> yeah i know, this is why i'm not starting a big "zomg this game has memleakz" thread in the forums ;) 12:14:01 <dihedral> but you file a bug report!!!! 12:14:14 <dihedral> at least in the forums we could bash you right now :-P 12:14:17 <dihedral> hihi 12:14:39 <dihedral> i loaded the map in clean trunk and it's fine 12:14:41 <dihedral> oh wait 12:14:53 <dihedral> what rev are you playing when you say 'clean trunk' 12:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... sometimes, when i used my volume keys, kmix eats all my keyboard input :( 12:15:19 <dihedral> ^^ 12:15:31 <Zahl> and i admit i don't know the source too well, but i just wonder: would it actually be possible that some stupid stuff a patch does gets into a savegame and causes a memleak even in the trunk version? 12:15:39 <Zahl> dihedral: r15599 12:15:41 <Ammler> r15553 12:15:52 <Ammler> hmm, at least, that is what the gamelog says 12:15:53 <dihedral> no 12:16:09 <Zahl> recent nightly just downloaded from the website 12:16:13 <dihedral> Ammler: that could have been the patched version 12:16:27 <Ammler> r15476M 12:16:35 <Ammler> is the gamestart 12:16:38 <dihedral> right 12:17:12 <Ammler> and 15591 is my rev at last 12:17:17 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177225065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:18:13 <Ammler> [13:15] <Zahl> and i admit i don't know the source too well, but i just wonder: would it actually be possible that some stupid stuff a patch does gets into a savegame and causes a memleak even in the trunk version? <-- good question, I guess, that is the reason for the gamelog 12:18:50 <dihedral> what on earth does he mean with a patch getting into the savegame? 12:18:51 <Ammler> I assume, if a save ever is touched by a M-rev, you can drop it as bug report. 12:19:26 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051041190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:19:40 <Zahl_> dihedral: i mean that some bug gets into the savegame 12:20:09 <Zahl_> and that if you load this savegame in a clean trunk version, it causes this behavior, whereas a clean savegame would not 12:20:37 <Zahl_> just technically speaking 12:20:52 <dihedral> and it's a game you added and removed grf's from 12:21:04 <dihedral> you really think anybody wants to support that? 12:21:06 <dihedral> nope 12:21:10 <Rubidium> I see no reason why it couldn't happen, but it seems unlikely 12:22:02 <dihedral> and cheated the landscape? 12:22:17 <planetmaker> Zahl: Rubidium: patched versions can introduce things like unowned stations and stuff... 12:22:18 <dihedral> no 12:22:21 <dihedral> sorry 12:22:23 <dihedral> my bad 12:23:58 <planetmaker> I seem to remember some mega cool person complaining about funny behaviour of his map made with such patches... 12:24:15 <planetmaker> or is just my memory faulty? 12:24:37 <dihedral> patched games just are the users own silly fault 12:24:38 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177231083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:24:39 <planetmaker> oh... and I didn't see a "n't" in Rubi's answer :P 12:24:51 <dihedral> complaining about them is like - totally stupid 12:24:55 * planetmaker needs more tea 12:25:53 <HerzogDeXtEr> the original landscape generator isnt working, it crashs openttd 0.7.0-beta1 12:25:58 <planetmaker> dihedral: certainly depends upon the patch. A daylength game which doesn't save and change anything else... but then you never know :) 12:26:07 <planetmaker> HerzogDeXtEr: afaik it's fixed in trunk 12:26:12 <HerzogDeXtEr> k 12:26:15 <Zahl_> dihedral: like i said, i'm still trying different things etc, i do not claim the game is buggy (yet ;)) 12:26:36 <dihedral> you are asking for support ^^ 12:26:41 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051041190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:41 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 12:26:41 <dihedral> or at least you are costing ^^ 12:26:58 <Zahl> i know, but you do not have to give support if you don't want ;) 12:26:59 <dihedral> and trying to claim a game is butty with a patched game is just as stupid ;-) 12:27:10 <HerzogDeXtEr> is there still the problem that all indutries are dying on very big maps? 12:27:36 *** Brokkoli [~Brokkoli@f054022000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:27:41 <planetmaker> @r15111 12:27:47 <planetmaker> hm... 12:27:52 <dihedral> ? 12:28:01 <planetmaker> dihedral: the revision of the assert fix :) 12:28:14 <dihedral> are you looking for @openttd commit 15111 12:28:19 <planetmaker> yes :) 12:28:22 <planetmaker> ty 12:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i really wonder why the so called "junction wikis" never mention this style of junction... 12:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png 12:28:55 <Zahl> dihedral: so i guess if it also happens in a ottdcoop savegame it is not a valid argument either because of newgrf? so i should start a clean game with trunk... 12:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2026.%20Feb%201934.png 12:29:49 <dihedral> Zahl: clean trunk is the best thing to use if you want to find / report a bug 12:30:09 <Zahl> ok.. might take some time :-D 12:30:10 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.104.111] has joined #openttd 12:30:11 <planetmaker> Zahl: if the thing is related to use of newgrf, of course you cannot test it w/o newgrf :) 12:30:25 <planetmaker> but if it isn't - a testgame w/o is far better. 12:30:44 <planetmaker> Zahl: run an AI test game. They build fast and w/o you doing anything :P 12:30:58 <Zahl> but then it could also be caused by ai 12:31:03 <planetmaker> yep 12:31:03 <dihedral> planetmaker: afaik ai's leak 12:31:04 <Ammler> Zahl: if you use a save, type "gamelog" in the console to check if there isn't a midified version. 12:31:07 <dihedral> or at lest squirrel does 12:31:17 <planetmaker> dihedral: ok, then that rules out use of them 12:31:23 <Ammler> also possible coop games are from a modified one. 12:31:45 <planetmaker> might be 12:31:51 <dihedral> + coop games are usually crammed with newgrf's 12:31:53 <Ammler> maybe 1 or 2 12:32:13 <planetmaker> dihedral: depends on dfinition of "crammed wiht" :P 12:32:27 <planetmaker> But yeah, I usually add all station grfs I can get :) 12:34:03 <petern> write a patch to remove the unnecessary station class limit! 12:34:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: what bridges did you use? 12:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think that was the cantilever replacement set 12:34:37 <planetmaker> petern: even though I didn't find any limit there :) Adding them only defers the decision which to use to ingame :) 12:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and the brick viaduct 12:34:54 <planetmaker> ah, brick viaduct might be what I wondered about 12:35:17 <Rubidium> dihedral: AFAIK squirrel doesn't leak anymore, but given the way you said it: could you give me the game where it leaks? 12:35:18 <petern> not really 12:35:26 <petern> if you go over the limit they'll just end up in the default class 12:36:03 <petern> it is 32 as that was the limit on dropdowns when it was made 12:36:42 <planetmaker> ah... :) That explains why I sometimes have more than the default station in the first entry? 12:36:53 <planetmaker> I always assumed that it was a grf modifying that. 12:36:56 <petern> yup 12:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the buffers grf adds to the default station 12:37:38 <planetmaker> yes. But I once at least had more :) 12:37:43 *** Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:38:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 12:38:23 <Ammler> are there more then 32 station grfs? 12:38:26 <planetmaker> 32 different stations is sufficient though. 12:38:44 <dihedral> Rubidium: i have rather large other leak issues on the vps 12:39:00 <dihedral> it's kinda linked to openttd, but i cannot follow up on the vps 12:39:11 <petern> ... 12:39:15 <dihedral> however, whenever openttd dies, i have an extra 600MB of free mem 12:39:17 <Ammler> hmm, same grf could have more classes 12:39:19 <dihedral> it sucks 12:39:25 <dihedral> ^^ 12:39:56 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.57] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity] 12:40:11 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng22-2-0-cust533.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:41:06 <dihedral> i wish i could find out where the issue was and how it was caused, but i cannot, i dont even get to see the issue within the vps 12:42:21 <planetmaker> dihedral: hm... last time I ran openttd for a day, it also had 570MB of virtual memory reserved. But only 28 resident... 12:42:58 <planetmaker> hm... 12:43:07 <Rubidium> dihedral: so it can also be that openttd got killed, then another process in another VPS got more memory, wasted that too, got killed and then you looked how much memory was free 12:43:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: virtual memory includes stuff like opened 'files' 12:44:39 <planetmaker> what files does it open? Beside newgrfs? 12:44:53 <planetmaker> hm... screenshots it made? 12:45:07 <Rubidium> the binary, the libraries, tars, network sockets 12:45:20 <Rubidium> video (if not-dedicated) 12:45:44 <planetmaker> yes. It was my client I had running the whole day to take a screenshot every 2 ingame months 12:45:47 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.57] has joined #openttd 12:46:27 <planetmaker> and I didn't watch memory over time. So it was just a confirmation on the total amount :) - I guess the virtual memory will after termination also be freed :) 12:46:46 <Rubidium> and randomised memory allocation causes such things to 12:46:57 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:05 <planetmaker> can you reccomend a tool to log the memory usage over time? 12:47:22 <planetmaker> Then it's easy for me to run tests throughout the day(s) 12:47:23 <Rubidium> no, but valgrind'll tell whether it leaks 12:47:59 <Noldo> how does the original mapgen use the sprites it needs? 12:48:05 <planetmaker> that's a test which doesn't require the programme to run, right? I've no idea about valgrind... 12:48:24 <Rubidium> Noldo: you'll have to find out yourself 12:48:34 <Noldo> oh great 12:55:17 *** goodger [~ben@host86-158-205-163.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:56 <dihedral> Rubidium: it's a dedicated server, and i went through the issues with TB 12:56:02 <dihedral> and yes, it runs in shared mem 12:56:12 <dihedral> and i can watch the shared mem rise 12:56:19 <dihedral> and i can predict when the app gets killed 12:56:24 <dihedral> it's been going on for over a month 12:56:32 <dihedral> however, this does not happen if it's not running in the vps 13:03:38 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-173.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:06:05 <petern> heh 13:06:05 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:09 <petern> http://84.246.155.101:8081/ 13:06:32 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:06:48 <Forked> it's OpenTTD! 13:07:17 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:07:44 <Forked> using that to guide the mouse pointer looks sort of painful 13:08:06 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:08:38 <petern> impossible :o 13:09:20 <Forked> no delete button? =p 13:10:46 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:11:43 <planetmaker> nice :) But seems like it's lacking a bit of interface comfort :) 13:12:03 <Forked> mmm Unix 13:12:56 <Forked> what OS on that phone? 13:13:10 <petern> oh damn 13:13:12 <petern> i've lost the pointer 13:13:13 <petern> because 13:13:17 <petern> it can go OFF THE SCREEN 13:13:21 <petern> who thought that was a good idea, eh? 13:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> lmao :p 13:13:26 <petern> it's series 60 13:13:35 <Forked> haha 13:13:49 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has joined #openttd 13:14:30 <[wito]> ok 13:14:38 <[wito]> time for a YAPP experiment! 13:14:41 <[wito]> Wish me luck! 13:15:19 <Noldo> luck 13:17:56 <petern> no signal :( 13:32:14 <|Japa|> wippitty: http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/d8e5fc78fzwfuw1043j0.png 13:38:32 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 13:46:21 *** mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.240] has joined #openttd 13:46:21 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:27 <dihedral> Japa: that looks like tiles in a kitchen 13:46:30 <dihedral> a very old kitchen 13:46:52 <planetmaker> could be ground tiles for a toyland replacement 13:47:05 <dihedral> true 13:47:17 <dihedral> that would be lot nicer too ^^ 13:48:30 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:13 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:48 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-away 13:54:39 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:04:51 <|Japa|> I really like the look of this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=760561#p760561 14:05:06 <|Japa|> so I was trying to start replicating it by memory 14:05:56 <|Japa|> also, it's my first attempt at making a GRF 14:13:26 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:36 *** jpm_ [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 14:21:16 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:22:28 <petern> um 14:22:30 <petern> yeah 14:22:33 <petern> it's not a grid 14:22:34 <petern> and 14:22:37 <petern> no need to do it as a grf 14:22:46 <petern> do it as 32bpp :D 14:22:58 <petern> i did a ground sprite similar to that, but no more 14:23:08 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> can/should 32bpp sets be handled with .obg files? 14:27:43 <Rubidium> no 14:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> imho it should. allows people to switch from the default graphics to 32bpp graphics the same way as to opengfx graphics. 14:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> also allows to show a message window like "openttd must be started in 32bpp mode to support these graphics, the changes will be in effect on the next restart" 14:33:23 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:37:14 <[wito]> bah! 32bpp! 14:38:20 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:40:23 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-173.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:42:31 <planetmaker> Rubidium: with respect to translation and 1,000 ⬠vs. 1.000 ⬠vs. 10,00.00 â¬... There's a number of strings which go like "{BLUE}{COMMA}"- 14:42:55 <planetmaker> doesn't the {COMMA} denote how the number is spaced for bigger numbers? 14:43:29 <Rubidium> no, just that it is 14:43:39 <planetmaker> So far I have no idea on the use of that {COMMA} - I assumed to replace it by {DOT} 14:43:45 <planetmaker> would work. 14:44:01 <planetmaker> (and wanted to test that tonight) :) 14:44:10 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 14:44:35 <planetmaker> So... no easy way for a translator to fix that? 14:45:02 *** [1]KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.104.111] has joined #openttd 14:45:39 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest399 14:45:39 *** [1]KenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20 14:45:46 <Rubidium> as I said... whether commas, dots or spaces are used isn't a language decision 14:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: {CURRENCY} != {COMMA} 14:48:04 <planetmaker> yes :) 14:48:11 *** Guest399 [~KenjiE20@92.20.104.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:48:16 * planetmaker should have done a stfw before :P 14:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as for the Language-{COMMA}-Separator, i had a patch for that. 14:48:35 <Ammler> and currency is a local setting, not language :P 14:48:40 <Rubidium> as I said... whether commas, dots or spaces are used isn't a language decision 14:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, languages cannot override currency settings. 14:53:05 <planetmaker> hm... ok, so not translatable change then :) 14:53:06 <[wito]> speaking of currency settings 14:53:20 <[wito]> is the #{sep}### format hard-coded? 14:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2287 <- but has nothing to do with currencies 14:53:31 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:53:36 <[wito]> because some currencies should have groups of 4, not 3 14:53:43 <[wito]> (most notably JPY 14:54:10 <Rubidium> [wito]: yes 14:54:46 <Rubidium> and then JPY isn't the hard one to support; the Indian format'll be the hard one 14:55:02 <[wito]> how is the indian one? 14:56:35 <Rubidium> 1,000 1,00,000 1,00,00,000 1,000,00,000 (or that's what I understand from wikipedia) 14:56:38 <[wito]> but actually, the separator concern would apply to all numbers in the Japanese translation 14:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so alternating groups of 2 and 3? 14:58:31 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: your patch would need something like a 2. base language, so you could make language files for de_CH and use de as base, but don't need to replace all strings. 14:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, we discussed that already ;) 14:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly add a "##fallback" pragma? 14:59:15 <Ammler> oh, indded, might be :-) 14:59:39 <[wito]> so changing number formats in translation a no-go on the whole? 15:00:05 <Rubidium> haven't I said that like a three times already? 15:00:12 <[wito]> yaeh 15:00:28 <[wito]> or actually, I kept subtly rephrasing the question. ;) 15:00:32 <[wito]> Anyway, bbl 15:00:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I don't know how the indian numbering actually works 15:03:19 <Rubidium> comma is used at levels of thousand (1000), lakh (100 000) and crore (10 000 000) which would suggest at 3, 5, 7, 10, 12, 14, ... 15:05:30 <Rubidium> but then the wiki seems very inconsistent to me 15:10:44 <petern> handy 15:11:28 <Belugas> comic pack... too bad it cannot be used somewhat :( 15:14:38 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has joined #openttd 15:14:40 <dihedral> what is it lisenced under? 15:15:17 <Rubidium> other pages seem to suggest that indian is last group of 3, groups before that of 2 15:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> do the indians themselves even know? 15:15:52 <planetmaker> Belugas: yeah... :S that'd be a nice look :) 15:15:53 <Rubidium> chinese/japanese seem to want to add their 10 000/100 000 000 etc. characters in between 15:16:37 <Rubidium> so you'd get something like 2 million 345 thousand 678 15:17:02 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051041190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:17:09 <|Japa|> ohh, what'd I miss here? 15:17:28 <Rubidium> yourself 15:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well, more like "2M345k678" i presume, since they would be "1-character-words" 15:17:42 <dihedral> Rubidium, nobody else missed that ^^ 15:18:05 <|Japa|> we talking languiages? 15:18:14 <|Japa|> klingon needed 15:18:18 <|Japa|> :P 15:18:19 <petern> thousand separators 15:18:24 <|Japa|> oh 15:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> not languages, numbering formats 15:18:46 <|Japa|> so for the possibility of having Rs. 10,00,00,00,000 ? 15:18:53 <|Japa|> want 15:20:33 <petern> if you ... really wanted 15:21:24 <|Japa|> I'd learn to program, yeagh 15:21:24 <dihedral> planetmaker, as for crashed planes: "bei dem unfal gab es {num} tote und ein paar zwerquetschte" ^^ 15:21:45 <dihedral> |Japa|, really? 15:22:00 <planetmaker> dihedral: you're a registered translator :P 15:22:07 <dihedral> hehe 15:22:20 <dihedral> i was makeing a joke, not wanting to force it into the strings 15:22:31 <planetmaker> hehe :P 15:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that was actually funny ;) 15:24:02 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051041190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:02 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 15:24:46 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@e224212.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:25:19 <|Japa|> dihedral, if I can't even manage to download the source, it doesn't bode well for my chances of sucess at anything programming wise 15:26:04 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:19 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 15:28:36 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.104.87] has joined #openttd 15:28:50 <nicfer> hi 15:29:04 <Rubidium> not being able to download a tarball sounds like a serious offense to me 15:29:05 <|Japa|> hi 15:29:29 <|Japa|> well, not gettin SVN to work right, anyways 15:29:43 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:32:55 <Belugas> planetmaker, it would look so much better than all those photorealistic packages ;) 15:33:08 <nicfer> I'm wondering - would be too many work to rewrite industries like towns? 15:34:22 <nicfer> that would be, if you destroy a tile (like houses in towns) it gets rebuilt in a nearby place 15:35:47 <planetmaker> Belugas: well... not necessarily better IMO. But it would IMO be THE replacement for toyland :) 15:35:55 <planetmaker> And then really look nice. 15:36:11 <planetmaker> And it's something very unique in its own. Nice style 15:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: yes, that would be too much work 15:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> comic as 32bpp replacement for toyland... interesting idea 15:40:06 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:40:13 <Belugas> planetmaker, it would be better. not just for toyland 15:40:23 <Belugas> photorealism makes the game loos part of his ... 15:40:26 <Belugas> interest 15:40:27 <Belugas> appeal 15:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but the images i have seen from the comic set might be too much based on "real" building to suit as toyland replacement 15:41:23 <planetmaker> Belugas: well... :) I like both styles. Variety's the spice of life ;) 15:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with belugas, photorealistic breaks the game style. besides, some of the perspective-trickeries get really apparent with pseudo-photorealism (e.g. the shortened wagons) 15:41:43 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (or other scale "misalignments" 15:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 15:44:32 <[wito]> Rubidium: re japanese number format: japanese only usually adds the characters when the number is written as a word 15:44:38 <[wito]> (like you would on a check) 15:45:18 <[wito]> when they write as numbers they write 1.0000.0000 15:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that work anyway? in latin-based alphabets, this "word" writing of numbers on checks was introduced as a measurement to avoid cheating (e.g. replacing digits, or adding digits) because you can replace the words less easily by just writing over them 15:47:25 *** Firzen [~chatzilla@dslb-088-069-239-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:47:58 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:20 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 15:48:22 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@145.118.72.57] has joined #openttd 15:48:28 <TrueBrain> hello lovely people 15:49:15 <Rubidium> hello lovely person 15:49:29 <TrueBrain> :) 15:49:36 <glx> hey TrueBrain 15:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, in germany that works differently... 15:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> one person says "Prost ihr SÀcke" 15:49:50 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad87cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:49:50 *** bleepy is now known as Guest408 15:49:51 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 15:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and the others reply accordingly "Prost du Sack" :p 15:50:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nobody cares about german people 15:50:17 <Belugas> TrueBrain! 15:50:20 <TrueBrain> they are insane 15:50:23 * TrueBrain hugs Belugas 15:50:32 <Belugas> Welcome back! 15:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be true, but the two statements are totally uncorrelated :p 15:52:17 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad87ccc.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:52:17 *** bleepy is now known as Guest409 15:52:17 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 15:53:30 <TrueBrain> every 6 months I order for the same amount of money a new HD ... a few years back that was 160 GB ... now it is 1 TB ... weird times .. 15:54:20 <Yexo> hello TrueBrain 15:54:56 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I redirected some user to you with a NoAI related question 15:55:01 <TrueBrain> didn't feel like reading what he was asking :p 15:55:23 <Yexo> that's fine, but I haven't seen any question yet 15:55:56 *** Guest408 [bleepy@5ad45691.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:20 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad87cce.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:58:20 *** bleepy is now known as Guest410 15:58:20 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 15:58:53 *** Guest409 [bleepy@5ad87cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:01:04 *** pleeby [bleepy@5ad9f86e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:01:05 *** bleepy is now known as Guest412 16:01:05 *** pleeby is now known as bleepy 16:01:21 <TrueBrain> bleepy: would you mind either staying or leaving? 16:03:09 <Rubidium> seems like he likes leaving 16:03:31 <TrueBrain> that I gathered, yes 16:03:36 <TrueBrain> thank you for that clearification ;) 16:03:59 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my C application fails to download at 100 mbit/sec :( 16:04:21 *** Guest410 [bleepy@5ad87ccc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:17 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd 16:06:15 <Rubidium> read in bigger blocks? 16:06:21 <Rubidium> write in bigger blocks? 16:06:41 <TrueBrain> it is reading 16:06:43 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:00 <TrueBrain> and I guess I need to increase the sendbuffer of the socket yes :) 16:07:21 *** Guest412 [bleepy@5ad87cce.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone lingually and musically educated enough to explain to me how to translate the musical intervals ("Prime", "Oktave", "{groÃe|kleine} {Sekunde|Terz|Sexte|Septime}" and "[verminderte|ÃŒbermÀÃige] {Quarte|Quinte}") into english? 16:08:21 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 16:08:45 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: I can translate some of them into french ;) 16:09:21 <planetmaker> http://www.dict.cc/?s=verminderte+Oktave <-- Eddi 16:10:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: ^ :P 16:10:08 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:11:01 <nicfer> release dates suck, and is one of the motives because some games are ruined 16:11:11 <nicfer> example, duke nukem forever 16:11:12 <nicfer> lol 16:12:46 <Firzen> How to solve a new grf conflict? 16:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> err... i don't think this "example" fits your statement 16:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: deactivate one. 16:13:02 <Firzen> Do the clients need to download the grf files manually? 16:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: if the GRFs are not available on the content server, they have to be downloaded manually 16:13:48 <Firzen> Ok. 16:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> an established quasi-standard for that is the Coop-GRFPack 16:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which should contain about 98% of the GRFs found on servers 16:14:56 <Brokkoli> it does not ;) 16:15:08 <Brokkoli> but at least about 80% *g* 16:15:21 <TrueBrain> nobody likes a smartass 16:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> 93,6% of all statistics are made up on the spot. 16:15:46 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8031C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:15:47 <planetmaker> :) 16:15:56 <Brokkoli> try the crawler http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ to find the grfs 16:16:33 <planetmaker> that's no good way, if you want people join your server. You need a central grf repository for that 16:16:57 <Brokkoli> but u dont have... 16:17:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no 0% of all statistics are made up on the spot 16:17:25 <planetmaker> well... bananas is one. And the coop grfpack is the predecessor with some grfs more 16:17:32 <Brokkoli> if you want people to join your server, only use bananas grfs 16:17:40 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80044.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:17:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:17:41 <planetmaker> which cannot or won't be uploaded to bananas. 16:17:49 <Brokkoli> yes the coop is ok 16:17:51 <planetmaker> We won't include bananas content anymore, though 16:17:59 <Brokkoli> why? 16:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, basically, that is a direct lemma of "Do not trust a statistics that you did not fake yourself" 16:18:14 <planetmaker> Brokkoli: why should we? It's much work to update. 16:18:22 <Brokkoli> not to much 16:18:29 <planetmaker> And bananas is usually more up to date. 16:18:31 <Brokkoli> and i think its worth the work 16:18:37 <planetmaker> Brokkoli: you did it already several times, eh? 16:18:51 <Brokkoli> no i didn't 16:18:58 <TrueBrain> I see this channel gained an other know-it-all 16:19:13 * planetmaker wonders how people aways see things other people do as "not much work"... 16:19:27 <Ammler> we we only delete grfs from the pack anymore, I hope ;-) 16:19:31 <Brokkoli> ok sorry i havn't meant it that way 16:20:32 <Rubidium> planetmaker: is it much work for them? No, then it's not much work 16:20:34 <planetmaker> main reason is: bananas is up to date. 16:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if you can convice MB to put the DBSet 0.9 on bananas ;) 16:20:48 <planetmaker> Rubidium: :) 16:21:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I'll definitely give it a try :) 16:21:20 <Brokkoli> or the newships 16:21:23 <Brokkoli> would be great 16:21:32 <planetmaker> But then, I think, it was easier, if bananas allowed to download the grfs via webinterface 16:21:39 <planetmaker> That way also TTDP users could use it. 16:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't hope for a near release of another newships grf 16:21:57 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: or TTDP could use the open protocol to make an ingame thingy too! :) 16:22:09 <Brokkoli> ok not a new but the old one.. for the "bananas-only" users 16:22:09 <glx> TrueBrain: I'm following your howto crosscompile for mac, works quite well (I already have i686-apple-darwin9) 16:22:10 <Rubidium> planetmaker: nothing prevents them from implementing the protocol 16:22:20 <planetmaker> That'd be the nicer solution, certainly :) 16:22:28 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah ... when I write documentation, it mostly adds up ;) 16:22:36 <TrueBrain> nice to see there is still interest in that ;) 16:22:44 <Ammler> don't think there will be big new feature for ttdp anymore. 16:23:27 <TrueBrain> then why bother at all ;) 16:23:46 <glx> TrueBrain: it's more like we have a weird problem with osx 10.3.9 nightlies (and we don't know yet what cause it) ;) 16:23:54 <Ammler> well, but something for the server admins would be nice. 16:23:55 <TrueBrain> glx: so I read 16:24:08 <TrueBrain> and by the lack of a certain person to produce any binary for 10.3.9 .. I guess it isn't going anywhere either ;) 16:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD would not be where it is now if it did not have TTDPatch to lead it (feature-wise) 16:24:16 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: dedicated servers :) 16:24:34 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:24:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and visa versa ;) 16:24:48 <planetmaker> And it would make grf authors more comfortable, I think, as their work is then available from _one_ place, even without a client 16:25:37 <glx> TrueBrain: yeah, that's why we need another way to try things ;) 16:25:42 <planetmaker> "it's not much work to implement a download of the tars" :P 16:25:45 * planetmaker hides 16:25:51 <glx> btw I have a 10.3.9 pearpc VM 16:25:55 <Ammler> TrueBrain: currently, you have to load a save local and transfer the content to the server... 16:25:56 <TrueBrain> glx: creating your own i686-apple-darwin9 most likely won't really help 16:26:03 <Rubidium> TTDP seems to be killing itself by not making a new release and thus having people disregard it as they downloaded the stable and can't get many things working 16:26:13 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has joined #openttd 16:26:15 <TrueBrain> glx: the problem might be in the fact it is darwin9 .. you might also want to try darwin8, although there shouldn't be any difference :) 16:26:22 <planetmaker> Rubidium: might be, yeah 16:26:51 <TrueBrain> Ammler: then I wonder how I download AIs via my dedicated server 16:26:58 <glx> but the weird thing is it stopped working without any changes 16:27:02 <TrueBrain> I guess it is my imagination that those files get where they should go ... 16:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so i am not the only one who finds it weird that they started 2.6.alphas before finishing a 2.5 release? 16:27:23 <TrueBrain> glx: well, that might be only perspective :) No 'registered' changes ;) 16:27:41 <TrueBrain> I think it is a relocation error .. might be the binary size, might be the blocksize .. 16:27:42 <TrueBrain> who knows :) 16:28:28 <TrueBrain> glx: but having a VM to test on, might greatly help solving the problem ;) 16:28:49 <Ammler> TrueBrain: workaround was to download all, indeed. 16:29:24 <Ammler> but that might fail, if a older version is needed. 16:29:44 <TrueBrain> 'a server' and 'older version needed' doesn't combine 16:29:46 <TrueBrain> ever 16:30:02 <TrueBrain> as even as client you can't download an 'older' version (unless you join an already running server with an older version) 16:30:59 <TrueBrain> glx: anyway, good luck ;) I hope you can find something .. let me know if you need anything :) 16:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can, if you e.g. run a 0.7.x server and 0.8-nightly, some grfs might be flagged as "requires 0.8-nightly", while an older version of that grf might be available for 0.7.x 16:31:17 <TrueBrain> (I would btw start with compiling OpenTTD under 10.3.9 natively, see if that fixes theproblem ;)) 16:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you run both servers with the same data-directory 16:31:46 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a non-issue for the situation Ammler created 16:32:16 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 16:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you accidently updated, and want to roll back to the older version, because you did not like the changes? 16:33:16 <Ammler> that is even not possible for the uploader ihimself 16:33:36 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and having a method to download via the websites solves that ... how? :p 16:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that might be a point ;) 16:34:09 <Ammler> if you load the save, it outputs the grfid and md5sum 16:35:43 <wollollo> logout 16:35:45 <wollollo> logout 16:35:51 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1204-191.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:48 <planetmaker> [17:33] <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and having a method to download via the websites solves that ... how? :p <-- that's two completely different issues 16:37:02 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we were talking about that, right? 16:37:14 <TrueBrain> Ammler started wining about something to me, so I can only conclude it was related to that :p 16:37:26 <planetmaker> yes, we were talking about web download at least initially :) 16:37:39 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:41 <TrueBrain> at least I am not going mental ;) 16:37:46 <Ammler> hmm 16:37:55 <planetmaker> Ammler's issue is indeed another. 16:37:57 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:38:02 <planetmaker> But it's a valid one IMO, too :) 16:38:20 <TrueBrain> so wine to who ever you need to wine about that 16:38:23 <TrueBrain> just not to me :p 16:38:26 <planetmaker> it's very tricky to get the needed grfs of a savegame to a dedicated server 16:39:12 <planetmaker> Well :) 16:39:34 <Ammler> is the source available? 16:39:47 <TrueBrain> 'the source' 16:39:52 <TrueBrain> don't you just love people 16:39:53 <Ammler> of bananas 16:39:55 <TrueBrain> 'is the internet down' 16:39:57 <TrueBrain> lol 16:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=42112 <- please, i do not get this guy... the things that i think he is proposing can never work properly... 16:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: "the whole internet?" 16:41:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: YES! 16:41:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: RUN! 16:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i had such a discussion a few days ago 16:42:06 <Rubidium> yup, googling google breaks the internet, which is a small black box 16:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, a meta-discussion, as in "what do you respond when someone asks this kind of question" 16:42:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: with a light on top of it! 16:42:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: in the same line of questions: what is the black hole? 16:42:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I think he has a serious issue with understanding how these signals are meant to work and how he can use them to create exactly what he wants. 16:42:50 <TrueBrain> (mind the 'the', not 'a') 16:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'd relay that question to planetmaker ;) 16:43:18 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the part of you that talks shit ;) 16:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> he's the expert ;) 16:43:33 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: nasty :p 16:44:38 <TrueBrain> hmm .. Xen seems to drop my IO performance with 50% ... 16:44:55 <TrueBrain> I need to add I am downloading at 100 mbit/sec .. so IO delays are very noticable ;) 16:50:19 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has joined #openttd 16:57:20 <Brokkoli> i've got an idea about a new "pbs signal" there are now pbs and pbs-one-way... sometimes i'd need a thing which acts as a pbs-one-way from one side - blocking the way back - but from the othere side there should not be a valid stopping position.. so it's no signal at all... just kinda "oneway-sign" for tracks 16:57:24 <Brokkoli> how about that? 16:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> wow, a completely new never-heard suggestion! how rare is that! 16:58:33 <planetmaker> lol @ Eddi|zuHause & Brokkoli 16:58:41 <planetmaker> Brokkoli: play the game, test the signals and find out 16:58:58 <planetmaker> or look into the wiki 16:58:59 <Brokkoli> there is no signal like that 16:59:06 <Brokkoli> or is it? 16:59:18 <planetmaker> have you played with path signals actually? 16:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no, there is not, and i don't think there will be 16:59:26 <Brokkoli> sure 16:59:42 <Brokkoli> why not? 17:00:08 <Brokkoli> sometimes i got problems with trains turning around.. and going the wrong way.. because there is nothing like that 17:00:14 <planetmaker> you cannot block one way and at the same time allow passing through from that side 17:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the two remaining signal types are kinda-reserved for "advance" (yellow) path signals 17:00:34 <Brokkoli> from the other side 17:00:35 <planetmaker> Turning trains is another issue. Change wait_on_pbs_signal = 255 17:00:40 <planetmaker> or something like that 17:00:47 <Brokkoli> i know 17:01:01 <Brokkoli> but sometimes turning is ok 17:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think you are missing the point 17:01:13 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@145.118.72.57] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 17:01:16 <planetmaker> I guess :) 17:01:30 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:31 <Brokkoli> i'll create a screenshot 17:02:52 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: oh... I think, I get it now. Just a "no entry" sign. 17:02:58 <planetmaker> right, Brokkoli ? 17:03:09 <Brokkoli> yes 17:03:44 <Brokkoli> http://einniemand.dyndns.org/openttd/pbs.png 17:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i think they might be kinda useful on certain complex switch-blocks 17:03:57 <Brokkoli> the red line is a valid parking position 17:04:07 <Brokkoli> but the blue signal is not ok there 17:04:13 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.84.19.37] has joined #openttd 17:04:30 <Brokkoli> - but when i don't have it there trains could turn around and go the dotted line 17:04:43 <Brokkoli> so it sould be only a no-entry 17:04:53 <Brokkoli> in the blue circle 17:07:14 <petern> i prefer to not let my trains turn around 17:07:36 <Brokkoli> me too, but by default they will do 17:07:38 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 17:07:54 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:08:03 <Brokkoli> and its a server setting, not a client setting.. so i cannot avoid it 17:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd prefer my trains would throw a message instead of turning around when they are stuck 17:08:21 <Brokkoli> yes 17:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody listens to me 17:14:09 <Belugas> what? 17:14:45 <[wito]> am I the only one who uses LHD? ;) 17:15:53 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:15 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> what? <- exactly. ;) 17:18:42 <petern> [wito], no, all sensible people do 17:18:56 <Rubidium> but it isn't the right side of the road 17:19:51 *** Rexxie [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has quit [Quit: edgepro: A man who smiles when things go wrong knows who to blame.] 17:21:46 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 17:23:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:25:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:28:36 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:18 <[wito]> Rubidium: of course it isn't 17:30:20 <[wito]> it's the left 17:30:23 <|Japa|> I've had a problem with PBS sometimes 17:30:31 <|Japa|> I get trains playing leapfrog 17:30:39 <|Japa|> is there a way to avoid that? 17:31:05 <[wito]> |Japa|: I hope I won't get quieted for telling you this; 17:31:16 <|Japa|> ? 17:31:39 <[wito]> but real track configurations are generally a N-S track and a S-N track with a central two-way track 17:31:55 <|Japa|> hmm... 17:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> |Japa|: not reliably 17:32:04 <|Japa|> makes sense 17:32:26 <[wito]> The two-way two-track configuration is simply not a realistic approach to building railways 17:32:47 <[wito]> This extends to roads as well; 17:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> [wito]: it is, but the signalling system is not able to handle it very well 17:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> [wito]: many german double track lines are refited for "Gleiswechselbetrieb" (i.e. operating both rails in both directions) 17:34:01 <[wito]> ORLY 17:34:31 <[wito]> Well, at present rail conductors are often somewhat more intelligent even than YAPP. ;) 17:34:36 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:36 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 17:34:38 <|Japa|> well, the line I travel on a lot here in india has 4 tracks on it 17:35:11 <[wito]> I assume that cycles 3-1, 2-2, 1-3? 17:35:17 <|Japa|> also, http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/bkg446512akz8bcncjb.png $%%@#%^$$%^@ coal mine 17:35:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffd4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 17:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is you cannot reliably tell the slow trains to not attempt overtaking 17:36:14 <|Japa|> I guess I have to test with different distances between crossovers 17:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, realistically, the slow train will go on the "wrong" track, you can't model that properly either) 17:37:43 <|Japa|> I wonder if there's a good way to handle trains of different speeds on the same track 17:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> |Japa|: i have given up on attempting a bi-directional double track. they are usually too crowded in either direction, that overtaking is simply not possible, and if overtaking is possible, the wrong train attempts the overtake 17:38:05 <[wito]> I've been doing a bit of testing with that 17:38:25 <[wito]> not with PBS, tho' 17:38:27 <[wito]> that's what I'm going to test now 17:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what i have done meanwhile is having freight trains split to a secondary track near intermediate stations, and forcing them to wait there, while any faster train behind them will overtake 17:39:25 <|Japa|> specially with cargodest, it makes sense to have local and express trains 17:40:09 *** cudar [~cudar@79.113.60.38] has joined #openttd 17:40:15 <Ammler> 3 lines where only the middle one is bidirectional works well 17:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have done this for a really overcrowded line 17:40:55 *** cudar [~cudar@79.113.60.38] has quit [] 17:41:08 <[wito]> Ammler: I take it that works best when you use VA crossovers instead of XX ones, ya? 17:41:20 <nicfer> lmao, my antivirus is detecting that explorer.exe (a system's task!) is trying to create a file called autorun.inf 17:41:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2029.%20Mai%201930.png <- for example this stations, the freight trains will be scheduled to wait on the siding even if they have nothing to load/unload at the station, to allow faster passenger trains to overtake them 17:42:05 <|Japa|> you's be surprised how many viruses names themselves explorer.exe 17:42:19 <Ammler> [wito]: not sure, what you mean 17:43:09 <[wito]> Ammler: on a N-S track: N-branch, N-merge, S-branch, S-merge .... 17:43:13 <nicfer> that app is in the directory c:\windows 17:45:00 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: are all signals pbs there? 17:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:45:27 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.104.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:16 <Ammler> he, you don't like X 17:46:39 <[wito]> Ammler: I don't like X. :P 17:46:54 <[wito]> It causes my trains to do these silly 90 deg maneuvers at all times. .P 17:47:07 <Ammler> [wito]: disable that 17:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> [wito]: you can turn off 90° curves 17:47:28 *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:13 <[wito]> does that work with YAPF? 17:48:21 <[wito]> I thought that required NPF 17:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> cool... i still have the build for this paxdest savegame! :p 17:50:25 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: we need the advance signals :) 17:50:47 <Ammler> [wito]: I guess, at least NPF 17:51:01 <Ammler> yapf is a little bit more :-) 17:52:05 <[wito]> ah 17:52:20 <[wito]> I thought (because of the name) that YAPF was something else entirely 17:52:35 <[wito]> but if YAPF is more like NPF++, I guess it would work. ^_^ 17:52:41 <Yexo> it is, but it also supports that setting 17:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png <- my triple-track section 17:53:26 <[wito]> heh 17:53:29 *** lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:43 <[wito]> turns out that specific aspect has been clarified in the 0.7.0 patch interface 17:53:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D12A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:58 <[wito]> instead of (Requires NPF) it says (Not with NTP) 17:54:17 <[wito]> don't know why I haven't tried turning it on before, tho'. :P 17:54:27 <[wito]> sillynoob is silly. :P 17:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> come back when sillynoob has run out of silly 17:58:19 <[wito]> hehe 17:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%202.%20Jan%201942.png <- PS: this is why triple-tracking that section was necessary 17:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> PPS: don't try to scroll on a screenshott 18:00:34 <[wito]> Eddi|zuHause: that's surprisingly hard 18:00:45 <[wito]> What's even harder is not holding tab when images are loading slowly. ;) 18:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't have that reflex 18:02:46 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.126] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 18:02:52 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:18 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:04:40 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-17-159.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 18:05:24 *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has joined #openttd 18:05:33 <petern> and the unpause button does not work :( 18:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this game has serious daily hiccups... it's basically unplayable... 18:10:45 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]] 18:11:14 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:07 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@rb5am141.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:12:18 <[wito]> such as? 18:12:30 <[wito]> also 18:12:39 <[wito]> in the german station names, I see a lot of Gbh 18:12:42 <[wito]> what does that mean? 18:13:16 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@rb5am141.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "GÃŒterbahnhof" as in "Cargo station" 18:14:38 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 18:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> compare to "Hbf" (Hauptbahnhof -> Main station), "Pbf" (Personenbahnhof -> Passenger station), "Rbf" (Rangierbahnhof -> Shunting station) 18:16:35 <[wito]> so is that a manual renaming convention, or is that part of the language files (a.la. Mines, Forest in English)? 18:16:53 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@rb5am141.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:18:37 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177225065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that is manual 18:20:48 <[wito]> k. :) 18:24:01 <[wito]> how, by the way, does the 'Distant Joining of Stations' work? 18:25:08 <[wito]> nm. :P 18:25:21 <[wito]> "When in doubt: CTRL key." 18:26:21 <petern> aka "hidden feature" key 18:26:55 <[wito]> ya 18:27:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: How did you cheat in your alpine game to make the town grow? 18:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea, it just did... 18:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or i remember wrongly and the town actually was below the snow line sometimes... 18:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a trunk-loadable version of that game somewhere... (only changes back then were daylength, station catchment radius and middle stop, i believe) 18:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (later i added yapp, and maybe a few other patches) 18:32:06 <Ammler> frosch123: since when doesn't a town grow in apline? 18:32:51 <Ammler> well, maybe we have only arctic games, need to check... 18:34:56 <Ammler> yeah, the games I had in mind, were before newindustries 18:35:03 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 18:35:25 <Ammler> might be possible, Eddi|zuHause started that game before too :-) 18:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i started it with an early version of newindustries, afair 18:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it went on a rather long time 18:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> now... i am sure i uploaded the savegame before... but where... 18:36:53 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Regenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Apr%201970.sav <- might require right-click and save as 18:40:05 <frosch123> that is a different game 18:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> right 18:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> misread 18:40:29 <Zahl> dihedral: starting 1k-trains-in-clean-trunk project now, wish me luck (whatever that means here :p) 18:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> starts with R, too ;) 18:40:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15602 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:40:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-03 18:40:15 18:40:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1) 18:40:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1) 18:40:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed, 12 changed by planetmaker (13) 18:40:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by alyr (1) 18:40:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 fixed by fanioz (1) 18:40:43 <Sacro> SPAMMAH 18:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav 18:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> matches the regexp "R.*wald" :p 18:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody reads the middle of a word ;) 18:42:20 <frosch123> you hacked dbset ? 18:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> where? what? 18:43:06 <frosch123> i have only a compatible grf 18:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, i did, but afaik not when i started that game... 18:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... 18:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i edited the introduction dates for the oil wagons for a later game 18:44:19 <planetmaker> full-moon hacker Eddi|zuHause :P 18:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember doing anything else with the dbset 18:45:07 *** Yeggs-away is now known as Yeggstry 18:45:33 <Ammler> he needed to test his compiler ;-) 18:46:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the town is not above the snowline for the whole year :) 18:46:17 <frosch123> or, maybe it is 18:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a savegame of july, where the town appears to be exactly on the snow line 18:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it says "requires food" there 18:49:13 <frosch123> that is said when the town is above summer snowline 18:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i have towns way below the snow line that say that 18:52:00 <frosch123> ok, started a new scenario with a town definitely above snow line, and it also grows 18:52:06 <frosch123> at least when funded 18:55:56 <frosch123> ah, yes, funding building circumvents the food/water test 18:56:44 <db48x> maybe that's what you're spending your money on 18:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but afair i funded buildings only once 18:58:27 *** Powerek38 [~chatzilla@static-62-233-206-85.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #openttd 18:58:41 <Powerek38> hello 18:59:41 <Powerek38> is there any vehicles that enables to carry products from new industries (like fruit, oil seeds etc.) by road? I've found it possible only by rail so far... 18:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always amazed about how many connection stubs i have spread around the whole network... 19:00:15 <[wito]> Powerek38: I think there's an RV refit NewGRF 19:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Powerek38: yeah, for example the german road vehicle set 19:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it adds lots of trams, and busses, and it makes the regular trucks carry new cargos 19:01:07 <Belugas> plus, of course, it's german. 19:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also pikka's "hovs" set, but afair that one is unfinished 19:01:47 <Powerek38> Eddi|zuHause: ok, I'll check whether I've already downloaded and added that German set 19:02:03 <Ammler> Powerek38: there are a lot just check grfcrawler 19:03:09 <Ammler> (dunno, if there is a rv set not supporting new cargos) 19:03:10 <glx> eGRVTS should be able to transport thet too 19:03:42 <Ammler> (would at least be harder to find ;-) 19:07:15 <Powerek38> ok, thanks a lot :) 19:07:17 *** Powerek38 [~chatzilla@static-62-233-206-85.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]] 19:10:12 <Belugas> funny... another example of "i dowloaded it all, but i do not know what it's used for" 19:10:16 *** Firzen [~chatzilla@dslb-088-069-239-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]] 19:11:26 <Aali> obviously, more grfs = bigger e-penis 19:11:54 <Belugas> and as usual, more on something == less on other... 19:12:05 <Belugas> like .. brain ;) 19:12:20 <Belugas> by the way, i'm pretty stupid! 19:12:53 <Noldo> oh? 19:13:37 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm86.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: sleep] 19:16:02 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 19:25:55 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 19:26:43 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 19:32:07 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:36:51 *** 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[~RSCN@216-165-17-159.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 20:26:21 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:27:31 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:29:12 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15603 /trunk/src/ (core/alloc_type.hpp gfx.cpp): -Fix [FS#2696]: crash when using an extraordinarily large sprite as cursor. 20:34:13 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-184.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:35:09 <Zuu> Hmm, now thats a neat bug, using an extraordinary lange cursor sprite. :-) 20:35:18 <Zuu> large* 20:35:33 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:37:24 <Belugas> like... protect the bugs.openttd.org from noobs who try their best to overpopulate it 20:37:55 <Rubidium> yeah, cursors in excess of 128x128 pixels (8bpp) or 64x64 pixels (32bpp) 20:38:02 <Rubidium> like the aircraft of OpenGFX 20:38:52 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:43:28 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:41 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:19 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:50:14 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.84.19.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:45 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 20:52:11 *** jpm_ [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:22 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:37 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:54:13 *** genclay [~mind@cpc2-rdng22-2-0-cust533.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:56:29 *** NightKhaos 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quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:32:20 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity] 21:38:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffd4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:36 *** MrFrans [~MrFrans@a80-101-158-105.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: *Adios Amigos*] 21:44:01 *** MrFrans [~MrFrans@a80-101-158-105.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:00:14 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:01:51 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:38 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:38 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 22:06:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 22:16:33 <el_en> B*! 22:19:41 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]] 22:20:41 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:22:01 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 22:25:31 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has joined #openttd 22:28:07 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:04 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet612.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 22:37:28 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred@resnet612.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 22:39:41 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 22:41:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:43:04 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 22:43:31 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet612.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:44:28 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [] 22:46:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15604 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2661]: towns would only build houses where the grid would not be, even when they aren't allowed to build roads and the user 'implements' another layout. 22:46:57 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 22:50:05 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:52:22 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:54:52 <RS-SM> hmm 22:57:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:16 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:58:36 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 22:59:14 <RS-SM> hello 22:59:38 <Nite_Owl> Hello RS-SM 23:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> huhuu 23:01:34 <Nite_Owl> Hello Eddi 23:06:48 *** snorre [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:44 *** Cutter [Cutter@sev93-1-82-227-246-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 23:12:47 <Cutter> hi 23:13:20 <Cutter> why is it impossible to build diagonal rails on slopes? 23:13:49 <Cutter> is it planned? 23:14:17 <Brokkoli> it isnt? 23:14:23 <Brokkoli> not impossible 23:14:48 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:56 <Cutter> how? 23:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few design problems before even starting to implement those 23:16:40 <Brokkoli> its not possible? 23:16:44 <Cutter> Eddi: what problems? 23:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like the connection between sloped diagonal rails and level rails, because the "cut" must be orthogonal to the diagonal rails, but the tile border is not 23:17:04 *** snorre [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 23:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> also, diagonal slopes are steeper than normal ones 23:18:03 <Cutter> right 23:18:54 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:08 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred@resnet612.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:22 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet612.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 23:19:44 <Brokkoli> ah now i understand shich slopes you mean ;) 23:20:04 <Brokkoli> w 23:20:39 <Cutter> what about one rail half sloped half levelled? 23:21:10 <Cutter> so the connection doesn't have to be in the middle of a cell 23:25:07 *** Ralphis [~ralphis@216-15-110-27.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #openttd 23:26:32 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80044.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> then you need at least 3 adjacent tiles for a complete slope, so you need tile-sets that cannot be split 23:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, each rail tile is handled individually 23:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need additional (program) infrastructure to handle multi-tile-rails 23:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be cool, because similar infrastructure could be used for wider road curves, two tile wide highways, it could be used as a basis for newgrf road stations 23:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but it is a hell lot of work, and it must be designed properly 23:30:09 <Bjarni> diagonal slopes will need quite a lot of coding. I guess Eddi|zuHause pointed out one major issue with the multi tile tracks 23:30:31 <Bjarni> but also slope handling for acceleration is hardcoded for one tile 23:31:03 <Bjarni> in fact quite a lot of stuff is hardcoded for the current use 23:31:24 <Bjarni> if this were easy to add, then it would have been done a long time ago ;) 23:32:02 <Bjarni> like signals in tunnels. If it were as easy as some people imagine then it would have been added years ago 23:34:02 <Bjarni> also regarding different grades of slopes: if it should be of any use then we would need a better resolution of height. Say we want half of the grade, then we would need a tile border that's say 3 and 1/2 over sea level, but we can only accept 3 or 4 in the current design 23:35:40 <Bjarni> <Cutter> so the connection doesn't have to be in the middle of a cell <-- currently all rail code is hardcoded to have the rails in the middle of a tile border. I guess it would be messy to change that 23:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the multi-tile-issue gets even worse, since they are actually multi-half-tile (people WILL demand to put two rails in parallel) 23:36:39 <Bjarni> I wouldn't mind the result, but recoding to allow this would be like starting over 23:36:49 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE] 23:38:23 <Bjarni> I think ludde started coding 9 years ago. It goes without saying that changing something fundamental is hard at this time 23:38:34 <Bjarni> also it would waste a lot of the time already spent coding 23:39:35 <RS-SM> This game 23:39:45 <RS-SM> by the way, what engine is it, or is it some horrible custom make 23:40:57 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80044.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:41:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever you mean by "horrible", the "TT engine" was created by Chris Sawyer by himself 23:45:56 <SmatZ> RS-SM: what game? 23:46:15 <RS-SM> oppen ttd 23:47:05 <SmatZ> RS-SM: what is bad about using "custom" engines? do you have any idea what engine could be used? 23:47:18 <RS-SM> no, I don't mind custom engines 23:47:24 <RS-SM> Its just from hearing all the code talk 23:47:35 <RS-SM> this game seems like it has 2 cores 23:48:48 <SmatZ> 2 cores? 23:49:30 <RS-SM> 2 core parts, since it acts like a early 90s DOS game, yet the modern hacks like that underground rail thing someone showed off 23:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean there would be less code-talk if it was a "non-custom-engine" (whatever that is)? 23:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if only that "someone" would continue developing that :p 23:50:53 <Cutter> has openttd been rewritten from scratch? 23:51:25 <SmatZ> RS-SM: I don't think there's something "modern" about it... 23:51:34 <Cutter> or is it based on Chris Sawyer's code? 23:51:47 <RS-SM> II'mt trying to say cutter 23:51:49 <RS-SM> Er um.. 23:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Cutter: it was disassembled 23:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and then rewritten in C 23:53:53 <Cutter> ok 23:54:34 <Nite_Owl> I thought it was C+ or did that come later 23:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that was done later 23:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> large parts of the code are still C, which is just compiled as C++ 23:57:06 <RS-SM> thanks Eddi 23:58:10 <petern> heh 23:58:22 <petern> should there be some universal game engine or somethiing? :o 23:58:52 <Aali> we should be using the crysis engine 23:59:10 <Brokkoli> great idea ;) 23:59:11 <Aali> you'll need one modern computer per train, but thats fine 23:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: ohloh says it would take 40 person years (i.e. 4 years with a 10 person team) and 2.2 Mio $ to rewrite openttd from scratch 23:59:58 <Brokkoli> Chris Sawyer himself didn't need that time...