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Log for #openttd on 19th March 2009:
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00:29:01  *** eMJay [~michael@60.241.9.164] has joined #openttd
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00:30:29  <emjay88> hi all
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00:34:00  <Rubidium> howdy
00:36:02  <Ammler> Good night #openttd
00:40:18  <emjay88> How is everything?
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00:56:07  <Rubidium> I'd say it's quiet
00:58:05  <emjay88> I think I'd agree
00:59:32  <emjay88> What have you been up to, OpenTTD wise?
01:02:00  <Rubidium> reproducing fancy bugs/fixing bugs
01:02:41  <emjay88> sounds like fun :P
01:05:10  <Rubidium> yeah, especially when it turns out that the only way to reproduce the bug is installing a Windows in a foreign language (Chinese/Korean), removing! the fonts to display those languages, rebooting and then reinstalling them
01:05:25  <Rubidium> and then rebooting again
01:05:34  <Rubidium> and only then you can reproduce the bug
01:06:17  <emjay88> isn't that a fairly obscure bug?
01:06:34  <emjay88> like "I pulled out a RAM module while playing and now it doesn't work"
01:07:03  <Rubidium> actually upgrading Windows might cause the same behaviour as fonts get replaced
01:07:55  <Sacro> emjay88: we've had s/RAM/sound\ card.
01:07:59  <Sacro> erm
01:08:04  <Rubidium> still, if you're removing the font that OpenTTD autodetected and you do not reboot before starting OpenTTD you'll get three errors and possibly lots of question marks
01:08:06  <Sacro> s/\./\//
01:09:17  <Rubidium> and then there some Windows installs (again of Asian origin) that randomly use localised and english names for fonts which messes up things quite thoroughly too
01:09:30  <emjay88> Rubidium: aren't fonts stored in the GRFs? I seem to remember some dicussion in the Graphics Replacement dev thread...
01:09:34  <glx> yeah it was fun :)
01:09:36  <Rubidium> should I continue about Windows and font handling?
01:09:39  <emjay88> Sacro: O_o
01:09:50  <glx> even more when clean trunk fails to compile on these windows
01:10:12  <Rubidium> emjay88: nobody has made a GRF with CJK characters
01:10:27  <emjay88> good point
01:10:36  <glx> would be a very big project
01:11:11  <Rubidium> nah... Japanese only has 1800 official characters
01:11:44  <glx> @calc 1800 * 3
01:11:44  <DorpsGek> glx: 5400
01:11:48  <Rubidium> (the rest gets just 'borrowed' from Chinese and isn't often used in official government documentation)
01:12:42  <Rubidium> oh the 1800 is only the Kanji; so there like 100 Hiraganas + Katakanas too
01:13:15  <Rubidium> which is slightly more than the two dozen or so Cyrillic or Greek characters
01:13:33  <Rubidium> and then there's the world of Arabic languages which is even more fun
01:14:28  <[wito]> Rubidium: 1945
01:14:51  <Rubidium> as different 'letters' combine differently meaning they need to be drawn differently
01:15:01  * glx still waits for a font with all unicode ranges
01:15:17  <Rubidium> there'll never be one
01:15:36  <Rubidium> as I doubt there's any useful filling for the private area
01:15:53  <glx> arial unicode contains already a lot
01:16:51  <[wito]> Rubidium: Sci-Fi channel could probably supply a lot of things to fill it with
01:17:09  <goodger> glx: dejavu sans has most
01:17:14  <[wito]> (unicode block 88: Goa'ould :P)
01:18:51  <[wito]> also
01:19:21  <[wito]> the number of kanji in use in japan is about 10030; tho' very many of those only appear in a single place name or surname
01:19:28  <[wito]> or only a handful
01:20:27  <[wito]> a few of them are in fact so rare that noone knows how to pronounce them or what they mean
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01:20:40  <[wito]> but I digress
01:20:41  <[wito]> good night
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03:58:59  <emjay88> man, I really want to help the graphics replacement stuff but I'm just not a good artist :S
03:59:05  <emjay88> (or coder)
03:59:12  <emjay88> *sad face*
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06:14:59  <Forked> morning
06:16:07  <el_en> yes, why not
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07:35:17  <dihedral> close them quietly!! they usually have handles you know!
07:35:47  <Doorslammer> How original
07:43:15  <Forked> love handles?
07:48:42  <petern> well if you will name yourself doorslammer...
07:50:31  <Doorslammer> OK, Ill assume dihedral is an odd shape and Forked really is just that
07:55:34  <dihedral> one m less would be odd too
07:55:40  <dihedral> DoorsLamer
07:55:41  <dihedral> ^^
07:56:16  <Noldo> please
07:58:50  <Forked> I'm more borked than forked really :\
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08:02:21  <dihedral> Fborked?
08:03:00  <Doorslammer> I at least dont add a k between the i and the h
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08:08:38  <Forked> such a hostile morning :\
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08:11:45  <dihedral> Ammler, do you know when planetmaker is back?
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09:05:35  <Ammler> [09:19] <dihedral> [09:11:45] Ammler, do you know when planetmaker is back? <-- he is absent this week...
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09:36:39  <el_en> good beforenoon
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09:41:32  <Timitry> Hm... Which is the "master file" of the language files? The "english.txt"?
09:42:26  <petern> yes
09:42:29  <Timitry> I get a compiler warning "string xxx does not exist in master file" (patched version, not trunk!)
09:42:37  <Timitry> So i would have to add that string to english.txt ?
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09:43:05  <petern> it might be that a string was removed in english.txt by the patch
09:43:08  <Rubidium> you better ask yourself why the string was removed in the first case
09:43:23  <el_en> Rubidium: did you mean: in the first *place*?
09:49:37  <Timitry> Yeah, someone screwed up the copypaste patch a little
09:50:08  <Rubidium> nah, they just make it a nice desyncer ;)
09:50:30  <Timitry> He also created the patch file not from the folder that contains the data and other folders, but from a folder above of that...
09:50:50  <Timitry> Which is not too nice if you want to apply the patch
09:50:53  <Rubidium> with a/ and b/, right?
09:51:26  <Timitry> no, with "openttd-0.7.0-rc1-orig"
09:51:42  <Timitry> so i had to make a folder called exactly like that and apply the patch to its top-folder
09:51:42  <Rubidium> there's nothing technically wrong with that
09:51:48  <Rubidium> it's actually quite common
09:51:52  <petern> try -p1 :p
09:52:03  <Timitry> Using TortoiseSVN :P
09:52:07  <petern> no, it's shit
09:52:22  <petern> i do use tortoisesvn for svn work
09:52:29  <petern> applying patches is not svn's job
09:57:08  <Timitry> Well... Got it working now... ;)
09:58:02  <Timitry> I also get a warning about an unused variable, __ct_assert__ - A remain from bugtesting the patch which can be removed? Or should i rather not remove that?
09:59:43  <Rubidium> upgrade your compiler and leave it there
10:01:33  <Timitry> Hehe
10:03:37  <Rubidium> as it
10:04:21  <Rubidium> as it's there to prevent some quite hidden bugs from happening when someone changed some code somewhere totally different
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10:24:12  <petern> raaa
10:24:23  <petern> allocated an ip block for myself :p
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10:48:21  <blathijs> Hmm, www.openttd.org seems broken?
10:48:42  <blathijs> matthijs@xanthe:~$ nc www.openttd.org 80
10:48:42  <blathijs> www.openttd.org [85.17.162.188] 80 (www) : Connection refused
10:48:43  <Timitry> Puh, finally succeeded with my first patch update :)
10:48:45  <blathijs> Rubidium: ^^
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10:49:00  <petern> probably oom'd again
10:49:36  <petern> Mem:           781        741         39          0          0          0
10:49:37  <petern> :o
10:49:55  <blathijs> Who can fix it?
10:50:32  <petern> dunno if that's normal
10:50:44  <petern> despite 0 cache/buffers that's responsive as normal
10:50:56  <blathijs> works again
10:51:01  <blathijs> (I contacted Truebrain)
10:51:31  <petern> oh
10:51:48  <Noldo> still no idea what's hogging the memory?
10:53:12  <petern> apache2's quite large
10:54:23  <petern> hmm, one of my vservers is being odd :o
10:55:12  <blathijs> petern: It's lighttpd
10:56:19  <petern> if only it were that simple :)
10:57:58  <blathijs> How simple?
10:58:08  <petern> lighttpd is only the front end
10:58:32  <petern> it proxies to other services
10:59:39  <blathijs> petern: Yeah, but it is actuall lighttpd that takes up way too much space
11:00:05  <blathijs> petern: And I suspect it does not forward to apache? Or perhaps for SVN?
11:00:20  <petern> for dav_svn i believe
11:00:27  <petern> hmm
11:00:32  <petern> anyway
11:00:38  <petern> it's my mirror vserver that's broken :/
11:00:44  <petern> or i've got some settings wrong
11:00:53  <petern> it tried to shutdown the whole machine when i stop it :o
11:01:04  <petern> fortunately it doesn't have permission at that point
11:01:17  <blathijs> yipes
11:01:36  <dihedral> hehe ^^
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11:09:54  <Celestar_> oy peops
11:09:57  *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
11:10:02  <Forked> greetings, sir
11:11:19  <Celestar> how's it?
11:11:33  <Forked> depends what it is
11:11:59  <Celestar> your life :P
11:12:21  <Forked> life is pretty good. We're looking for a place to buy
11:13:47  <Celestar> Mars
11:14:04  <Celestar> heard it's pretty decent :P
11:14:28  * Celestar tries to remember how to use mercurial :P
11:15:47  <Forked> a house thats on this green earth would be nice though
11:15:57  <Forked> Mars is a bit far away from where i work.. and I heard internet there is pretty laggy
11:16:07  <Celestar> it all comes down to the neighbours I guess
11:16:21  <Celestar> yeah, ping times exceed 20 minutes sometimes
11:16:34  <Celestar> it's EVEN worse than Draft-N
11:16:37  <Timitry> http://paste.openttd.org/180653
11:16:42  <Timitry> What have i done wrong if i get that message?
11:17:01  <Timitry> Seems like something wasn't properly updated in the .patch file or something like that...
11:17:23  * petern ponders just installing this dodgy vserver
11:17:25  <dihedral> CELESTAR :-)
11:17:28  <dihedral> how nice to see you :)
11:17:41  <Timitry> Since it wants to create something in OpenTTD/copypaste_test2... while i am compiling in OpenTTD/copypaste_newstationbuildgui...
11:17:45  <dihedral> petern, get some nice hardware, install esx-i and enjoy :-)
11:17:56  <petern> no
11:18:02  <dihedral> esx-i is lovely
11:18:20  <petern> yes but this system is already installed
11:18:23  <Celestar> :)
11:18:23  <dihedral> handles it's vm's very nicely
11:18:33  <petern> along with using software raid1...
11:18:34  <Celestar> dihedral: working on a sync with trunk
11:18:38  <dihedral> TB even switched over to it :-)
11:18:40  <Timitry> "Celestar tries to remember how to use mercurial :P" <--- Because you finished CargoDest? (Hope dies last :D)
11:18:40  <Celestar> dihedral: currently installing SDL :P
11:18:42  <dihedral> Celestar, no way!
11:18:44  <Timitry> oh...
11:18:47  <dihedral> that is awesome
11:18:48  <Timitry> Cool!
11:19:01  <dihedral> so.... striving towards 0.8 then with it?
11:19:03  <petern> Celestar: someone had patches for the order list changes
11:19:14  <petern> possibly Aali, though i can't remember
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11:19:23  <dihedral> Aali had a complete update for it
11:19:30  <Celestar> petern: cool
11:19:46  <Celestar> petern: let me first get a dev env installed. I've just upgraded my system :P
11:20:02  <dihedral> ^^
11:21:05  <petern> also, vserver is nice & light weight
11:21:13  <petern> which is good cos i only have old generation xeons
11:21:33  <dihedral> ah
11:21:35  <petern> (£100 server versus £2000 server, innit)
11:21:53  <petern> as it's personal use...
11:21:54  <dihedral> 500£ for a R200 quad core ^^
11:21:59  <dihedral> that'll run esxi
11:22:01  <dihedral> ^^
11:22:14  <Celestar> yay.
11:22:17  <Celestar> it compiles :P
11:22:29  <petern> btw, does esx-i require hardware virtualization support?
11:22:51  <Noldo> petern: have you tried other free options?
11:23:12  <dihedral> esx-i sadly does not run on all hardware, it's kinda picky when it comes to that
11:23:23  <dihedral> but, it only has a 32mb footprint
11:23:30  <dihedral> and is the best hypervisor i know of
11:23:55  <dihedral> sadly i dont know the ins and outs of it :-P
11:24:00  <dihedral> tb will ^^
11:24:13  <petern> Noldo: which in particular?
11:24:44  <petern> vserver suits my needs because it doesn't require a virtual machine type set up
11:25:02  <petern> and i've another vserver on here that works perfectly... only this mirror one that's messed up
11:25:24  <Noldo> we are building a virtual server platform for a computer club, just exploring the options
11:25:40  <petern> ah
11:25:52  <petern> < not an expert
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11:38:35  <Celestar> ok
11:38:41  <Celestar> now the sync ..
11:38:52  <Celestar> how did this work right away?
11:41:26  <dihedral> ^^
11:42:01  <petern> hmm?
11:43:06  <Celestar> I'm trying to merge :P
11:44:45  <Noldo> uuuuh!
11:44:45  <Celestar> without causing a quantum singularity
11:44:50  <Celestar> \o Noldo
11:44:54  <Noldo> o/
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11:45:21  <Celestar> saveload.cpp is no more?
11:48:18  <Celestar> 713 files updated, 86 files merged, 21 files removed, 30 files unresolved
11:49:29  <Celestar> O_o how do I see the unresolved stuff in "hg st" ?
12:00:06  <Aali> you need to configure a merge program to resolve those unless you want to do it manually
12:00:23  <Aali> oh and I have a bundle you might like
12:07:00  <Celestar> can I revert a "hg merge" ?
12:07:10  <Aali> you can strip it
12:07:34  <Aali> or rather, you can strip the changesets you pulled
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12:15:21  <Celestar> I'll work on that ...
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12:37:04  <Rubidium> Celestar: saveload.cpp went to saveload/saveload.cpp
12:37:54  <petern> nah!
12:37:58  <petern> we removed save game support
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12:53:14  <Rubidium> Celestar: good luck with syncing, especially the order stuff rewrites
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13:11:39  <Belugas> good day all
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13:14:27  <petern> hello Belugas
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13:15:56  <Belugas> hello Sir :)
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13:40:22  <petern> odd
13:40:24  <petern> *** Game paused (not enough players)
13:40:27  <petern> 'cept it wasn't :o
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13:45:00  <dihedral> petern, did you run unpause at anytime?
13:45:02  <dihedral> manually
13:45:25  <Rubidium> dihedral: it's YOUR fault ;) (well... FS#2745 is)
13:45:55  <petern> no, i loaded a savegame
13:46:11  <dihedral> uh
13:46:14  <dihedral> Rubidium, i'll fix it ;-)
13:49:37  <dihedral> eh.....
13:49:52  <dihedral> NetworkServerDoMove does CheckMinAvtiveClients
13:51:56  <Belugas> the best admin tool available!  No player to administer :D
13:52:05  <dihedral> :-D
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13:52:49  <petern> yeah
13:52:56  <dihedral> Yexo_, you look a bit .... trod on
13:52:57  <petern> it works when switching companies but not when creating one
13:53:09  <dihedral> ahhh.....
13:57:20  <dihedral> that is the smallest patch ^^
13:57:43  <dihedral> http://paste.openttd.org/180657 ^^
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14:01:08  <Rubidium> dihedral: what if someone becomes a spectator?
14:01:19  <dihedral> that is a standard move
14:01:26  <dihedral> and that already is handled
14:01:36  <dihedral> in the NetworkServerDoMove (last line)
14:01:56  <petern> last time i remember it always checked the number of clients ;)
14:03:00  <dihedral> creating a new company is a doCommand
14:03:06  <dihedral> the Move code is not touched for that
14:03:16  <Rubidium> petern: that must've been an awfully long time ago
14:04:08  <Rubidium> 0.5 checks the number of clients with a valid playas (i.e. non-spectators)
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14:05:20  <petern> yerrrs
14:05:23  <petern> that's not what i meant
14:05:35  <petern> i mean it did it in the networking loop rather than a specific function call
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14:52:53  <dihedral> forget that patch ^^
14:53:53  <petern> \o/
14:55:00  <[wito]> dihedral!
14:55:04  <[wito]> Gief paxdest!
14:57:21  <dihedral> fails because of recursive doCommand :-P
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15:06:30  <dihedral> hmm ouch
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15:48:48  <kbrooks> Hi
15:48:52  <kbrooks> Uh
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15:49:07  <kbrooks> Does 0.7.0 still require game files?
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15:50:00  <Sacro> kbrooks: yes
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15:51:34  <kbrooks> What version do you think will stop requiring game files?
15:52:13  <Sacro> I don't
15:52:20  <Sacro> actually
15:52:29  <Sacro> I can't say whether 0.7.0 will require game files
15:52:33  <kbrooks> You don't know?
15:52:34  <Sacro> because it isn't actually out yet
15:52:56  <Sacro> we are still at -RC1
15:52:57  <kbrooks> I know it isn't.
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15:53:05  <kbrooks> I'm guessing it will though.
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15:55:00  <petern> don't be silly
15:55:05  <petern> openttd is always require game files
15:55:16  <petern> s/is/will/
15:56:19  <kbrooks> petern: I was referring to *proprietary* game files.
15:56:35  <petern> then *state* that
15:56:48  <Yexo> and techincally you don't need them at the moment either
15:56:57  <Yexo> just download opengfx and use an empty sample.cat
15:57:02  <kbrooks> "technically"?
15:57:09  <petern> you won't get sounds
15:57:16  <Yexo> well, opengfx still has a lot of black boxes, and ^^
15:57:23  <kbrooks> What about the _graphics_?
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15:57:40  <kbrooks> ah ok
15:57:41  <petern> is this 'use every type of highlight' day?
15:57:43  <kbrooks> Reading
15:57:46  <kbrooks> thanks.
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15:58:20  <kbrooks> Whoa - 89 percent done.
15:58:37  <petern> allegedly
15:59:04  <kbrooks> "allegedly"?
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15:59:50  <Sacro> can we kick him for quoting constantly
16:00:44  <Biolunar> "quoting"?
16:00:54  <Biolunar> *scnr*
16:01:00  <kbrooks> Sacro: I believe I quoted twice so far. Including the highlights, I have done so 4 times so far.
16:01:28  <kbrooks> I'm not sure how that goes under the definition of the word constant.
16:02:21  <petern> well
16:02:40  <petern> 89% is no use if the other 11% are common graphics...