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00:02:43 <Terkhen> good night 00:06:36 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 00:15:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:19 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:20:33 *** lightekk is now known as AFK|lightekk 00:21:01 <__ln__> AFK|lightekk: no public aways, please 00:22:29 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5C32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:23:04 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:23:21 *** Chruker [~no@87-104-39-161-dynamic-customer.profibernet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:32 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 00:23:49 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 00:24:22 *** Razmir is now known as Guest1122 00:26:26 *** Guest1122 [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 00:37:37 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@60.51.82.143] has joined #openttd 00:40:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@60.51.82.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:54 <DJNekkid> if anyone might care: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=47349 00:44:01 <DJNekkid> ('finished' nutracks) 00:44:15 <DJNekkid> ./</shameless self-add> 00:46:28 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF81B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:25 <SmatZ> :-) 00:48:00 <FauxFaux> NutRacks sounds like a very painful torture device. 00:48:09 <Pulec> good ad 00:48:20 <Pulec> any videos to explain to super stupid? 00:49:04 <Pulec> forget it i dont wanna know :D 00:52:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:56:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:04:04 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:11 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-16.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-69-202.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:07 *** Keiya [kyevan@thay.Stanford.EDU] has left #openttd [] 01:11:18 *** Fixer [~Fixer@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 01:12:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:16:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:25:51 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:33:38 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:38:42 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@60.51.82.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@60.51.82.143] has joined #openttd 02:00:59 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:02:22 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 02:06:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:24 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:18:50 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:22:07 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 02:27:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:20 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-128.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 03:11:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-227-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:23:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:acbf:fa32:c2d8:2dd5] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:35:17 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:18 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fntb.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:23:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 05:38:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77BF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:46:49 *** xb [~ggnn@197.0.207.200] has joined #openttd 05:46:52 <xb> http://www.mediafire.com/?06zvdsxsj0cee4e 05:48:43 *** xb [~ggnn@197.0.207.200] has quit [] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77BF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:02 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-61.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 06:33:19 *** Guest178 [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:54 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:11 *** Wizzleby is now known as Guest1154 06:35:19 *** Guest1154 [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 06:47:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:55:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:56:44 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:01:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:08:14 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:10:09 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:18:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:22:15 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 07:33:27 <dihedral> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4433 <- lol 07:33:33 <dihedral> good morning 08:01:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DE62.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DE62.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:05:40 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 08:09:45 <Terkhen> good morning 08:10:33 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:28:32 * andythenorth wonders how planes choose different sprites for take off / level flight 08:29:05 <andythenorth> can't see any special action 3 handling in the spec 08:32:49 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:36:33 <dihedral> you could check how its done in av8 08:38:05 <andythenorth> ho 08:38:14 <andythenorth> I'll just invent something - this is for ships anyway :) 08:38:35 <dihedral> i did not know they fly 08:42:18 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC56B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:24 <andythenorth> dihedral: hydrofoils ;) 08:42:37 <andythenorth> I guess it is actually flying of a sort 08:45:13 <andythenorth> hydrofoils should 'taxi' as they get close to a dock :P 08:45:17 <andythenorth> state machine... 08:48:36 <andythenorth> someone should have cookies for design of standard action 1 / 2 /3 08:50:34 <dihedral> either that - or you define them as planes which need special airports / runways :-) 08:50:53 <andythenorth> water planes? 08:50:55 <andythenorth> hmm 08:50:56 <andythenorth> could work 08:51:02 <andythenorth> they might fly a bit high... 08:52:04 <dihedral> hehe 08:52:13 <dihedral> yes and they could then fly over land too :-P 08:52:33 <andythenorth> maybe hovercraft should be planes :P 08:52:53 <andythenorth> but with a new cb to specify altitude 08:53:02 * andythenorth ponders reading plane code 08:53:26 <dihedral> nah - making them planes is not correct ;-) 08:53:44 <dihedral> you'd lave at seeing a hydrofoil passing over houses :-P 08:59:07 <andythenorth> grr 08:59:23 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:59:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:59:25 <andythenorth> B4 W Current speed (note, units different for each vehicle type) 08:59:39 <andythenorth> how the units are different is not explained :D 08:59:49 <Alberth> moin 09:00:27 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:04 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 09:07:32 <andythenorth> ships need realistic acceleration option :P 09:07:40 <andythenorth> Terkhen: :D ^ 09:18:02 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:20:33 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:28:02 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:33:41 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 09:35:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 09:36:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host179-63-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:36:48 <Wolf01> hello 09:45:06 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 09:49:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:53:38 *** AFK|lightekk is now known as lightekk 09:53:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21886 /trunk/src/ (33 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move documentation towards the code to make it more likely to be updated [n]. 10:03:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5c4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:04:50 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:11:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21887 /trunk/src/ (network/core/tcp_admin.h newgrf_industrytiles.h road_gui.h): -Fix-ish: some headers weren't including the headers they depend on 10:14:52 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:14:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DE62.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BD47.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:21:06 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21888 /trunk/src/ai/ (64 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove some unneeded (for the AI header) headers from some AI headers, reducing the include tree 10:35:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:36:04 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 10:44:07 <planetmaker> good day 10:45:18 <Terkhen> hello planetmaker 10:46:05 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:53:41 <Zuu> hello 10:54:07 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:16 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 11:04:00 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:35 *** TheDirtyOne [~chatzilla@178.34.148.185] has joined #openttd 11:07:48 <TheDirtyOne> 0hai. 11:10:49 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 11:12:48 <Alberth> hi 11:15:34 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:36 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:27 <TheDirtyOne> why does OTTD look for the config and content at my documents? 11:16:34 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:17:13 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF96E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:20 <TheDirtyOne> so for valid installation I do this: Unpack OTTD to the folder in my documents tat it wants to use, unpack the opengfx to data. 11:18:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B1D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:20:39 <Terkhen> it looks at another places too, check the readme 11:21:05 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 11:21:12 <Terkhen> and OpenTTD can be unpacked anywhere, it does not need to be at that folder 11:25:52 <TheDirtyOne> it checks at its install place, but prioritizes my documents and creates the config there 11:27:07 <Alberth> it has to create the config someplace 11:27:28 <TheDirtyOne> so why does it create it into documents, not into itself? 11:27:40 <Alberth> but read the readme, it has detailed explanations on what it all does 11:28:17 <Alberth> I guess becauses of shared installs 11:28:26 <TheDirtyOne> and there's one more weirdness - sound/music 11:29:21 <TheDirtyOne> ottd with legacy pack (full with sfx) takes the same space as openttd with opengfx alone 11:36:13 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:00 <Terkhen> TheDirtyOne: the installer is not intended for creating portable installations 11:37:06 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:37:33 <Terkhen> download the zip archive and use its own data folder if you want to have everything in the same folder 11:38:06 <Terkhen> but IMO having them in the My documents folders is more useful, then you don't lose your data and savegames if you reinstall 11:42:04 <TheDirtyOne> Terkhen: zip tries that too. 11:42:32 <Terkhen> you need an openttd.cfg file there too 11:43:00 <Terkhen> as I said, check the readme 11:43:01 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 11:43:38 <TheDirtyOne> zip just lacks the cfg 11:44:00 <TheDirtyOne> just one empty file with .cfg extension. 11:44:11 <Alberth> no, otherwise it would overwrite an existing cfg 11:44:17 <Alberth> and it gets created anyway 11:44:43 <TheDirtyOne> it gets created in documents automatically 11:45:34 <TheDirtyOne> is there a switch to make it into exe's folder? 11:45:34 <Terkhen> meh 11:45:50 <Terkhen> believe me, it's all explained in the readme 11:47:14 <TheDirtyOne> oh, 1.05 got rid of this - files get found even with an outside cfg 11:50:24 <Alberth> way way before that version already, actually, afaik 11:53:25 <TheDirtyOne> and why are there 2 music files in content system? 11:53:29 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:53:44 <TheDirtyOne> openmsx and anthology-something 11:53:45 <Alberth> so you have a choice 11:54:26 <TheDirtyOne> is OTTD compatible with patched MIDIs? 11:55:19 <planetmaker> depends upon what you call a 'patched midi' 11:55:32 <TheDirtyOne> FeelSound patching 12:00:48 <TheDirtyOne> MIDIs fixed by instrument swapping and patched with FeelSound using PSMPlayer - http://psmplayer.com 12:02:07 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 12:03:05 <TheDirtyOne> fixing might be needed for MIDIs with bad instrument codes, and so on... 12:03:42 <planetmaker> Should work to just modify an existing midi 12:03:46 <Alberth> I have no clue at all what that means 12:05:12 <TheDirtyOne> planetmaker: PSMPlayer makes fixing/feelsound patching easy 12:05:45 <planetmaker> I've not heart of any of those tools, sorry 12:06:03 <TheDirtyOne> I managed, over chat, to guide one person to fixing the MIDI file that was causing MIDI library misinterpreting instruments. 12:06:18 <TheDirtyOne> Just get PSMPlayer - it's very small. 12:06:25 <TheDirtyOne> http://psmplayer.com 12:08:14 <Alberth> we have had enough commercials now, thank you 12:10:06 <planetmaker> oh no. definitely not. and not for my OS 12:10:39 <TheDirtyOne> it's not advertising. It's a win32 app to work with MIDIs. 12:12:07 <planetmaker> see. the point. Nothing which is remotely usable for me 12:12:11 <Alberth> whatever, nobody is interested 12:12:16 <Terkhen> ^ 12:12:46 * TheDirtyOne is a sick, mindless fatty that plays random games and is always full of weird//stupid questions... 12:13:02 * TheDirtyOne explodes 12:13:04 *** TheDirtyOne [~chatzilla@178.34.148.185] has left #openttd [] 12:14:00 <Terkhen> explodes == never will come back? 12:14:44 <Alberth> don't get your hopes up too much :) 12:15:00 <Terkhen> :D 12:15:33 <planetmaker> :-D 12:19:48 <andythenorth> anyone playing FIRS? 12:19:55 <andythenorth> I am wondering what to work on 12:22:55 <Alberth> so many projects, and still out of ideas :) 12:22:58 <Terkhen> I have not played FIRS in a long time 12:23:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: you're out of ideas or me? 12:23:33 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps it is time to try playing FIRS again 12:23:39 <Alberth> andythenorth: I meant you 12:23:42 <andythenorth> he 12:23:44 <andythenorth> I have ideas 12:23:55 <andythenorth> what I don't have is an easy way to prioritise :) 12:24:04 <andythenorth> I did have DanMacK sending me sprites for a bit 12:24:10 <andythenorth> that set a direction for FISH 12:24:24 <andythenorth> but he's not here today ;) 12:25:05 <Terkhen> :) 12:25:52 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:32:21 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:32:42 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-14-44.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:36:08 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-72-104.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:36:28 <Razmir> just for your interest, monorails should be available since year 1909 :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail 12:41:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:45:05 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listowel_and_Ballybunion_Railway 12:49:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:07:11 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has joined #openttd 13:07:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:18:28 <ZirconiumX> I think BR had a maglev prototype - around 1970 13:23:26 <frosch123> yeah, ottd should also have an option to waste lots of money into researching prototypes which will never become available 13:23:53 <ZirconiumX> "I had a million - but now I don't..." 13:23:59 <ZirconiumX> "Why" 13:24:51 <ZirconiumX> "I spent it on ill-fated prototypes - and now everyone hates me for spending their money..." 13:25:06 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:33:54 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:cd1a:12ba:4bc8:af7f] has joined #openttd 13:33:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:36:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:38 <andythenorth> wallyweb has got a bit excited about electricity :o 13:38:06 <andythenorth> a power circuit is just a lot of little men passing buckets of charge to each other yes / no? 13:38:12 <andythenorth> that's what we drew in school anyway :P 13:42:15 <__ln__> i don't think such a fundamental phenomenon of physics could have changed since you were in school. (whenever that was) 13:43:33 <Alberth> except it are actually 'holes' that move from+ to - :) 13:43:59 <Alberth> (or electrons that move from - to +) 13:44:39 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC56B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 13:44:56 <andythenorth> adding an actual electrical grid seems somewhat overkill 13:46:16 <andythenorth> however....if the map could handle storing point values of arbitrary properties like charge.... 13:46:34 <andythenorth> ...then a 'proper' spot price economy would also be possible 13:47:45 <Alberth> I fail to see the point of it all, play simcity instead would be much easier 13:48:04 <andythenorth> everyone has their pet project :D 13:48:12 <andythenorth> mine is roadtypes :P 13:49:26 <andythenorth> and also rv-wagons 13:56:43 <andythenorth> Terkhen: http://pastebin.com/W6XXAy2J 14:00:44 <devilsadvocate> you could model it as something that satisfies poisson's equation 14:01:29 <devilsadvocate> put in sources at power plants, sinks at usage points, and then charge people based on 'availability' at that specific point 14:02:00 <devilsadvocate> of course, that way, you can end up 'using' more than you produce 14:02:37 <devilsadvocate> but solving actual power flow equations would be a big more ugly 14:09:57 <Terkhen> andythenorth: how do you enable CB1D? 14:11:22 <Rubidium> Alberth: we already had the idea to have a cargo "electrons", so you ship 1 ton of electrons per train or something ;) 14:11:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:15:34 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 14:15:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I was going to say extend prop 17 14:15:37 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0RoadVehicles#Callbacks_17_ 14:15:45 <andythenorth> but if it's a byte, it's full :P 14:15:53 <Alberth> in fact, we are already shipping electrons in toyland batteries 14:16:22 <andythenorth> Terkhen: we could abuse prop http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0RoadVehicles#Miscellaneous_flags_1C_ 14:16:25 <andythenorth> 1C 14:16:38 <andythenorth> or a new action 0 prop is needed 14:16:55 <frosch123> if trains have no flag for 1d, rv should not have one either 14:17:01 <andythenorth> hmm 14:17:03 <Terkhen> using 17 would be the most desirable option, yes 14:17:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: that presents an interesting conundrum 14:17:31 <Terkhen> yes, as it makes sense that the default behaviour is identical to what we have now 14:17:31 <andythenorth> that means either all RVs become attachable, or none 14:17:59 <frosch123> "none" of course? 14:18:21 <andythenorth> so every single vehicle that is attachable has to explicitly handle cb 1D? 14:18:30 <andythenorth> bleargh 14:18:41 <frosch123> just as every train vehicle which is not attachable, right? 14:18:49 <Terkhen> but wouldn't that make handling of the CB different between trains and road vehicles? 14:19:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: train vehicles are attachable by default though? 14:19:15 <andythenorth> so the inverse :) 14:19:30 <frosch123> Terkhen: usually "failed callback" is defines as "default behaviour as if the cb was not enabled" 14:19:35 * andythenorth wonders what fraction of road vehicles *should* be attachable 14:19:44 <frosch123> so, it is perfectly fine, if failed cb means different things for trains and rv 14:19:53 <andythenorth> buses generally probably aren't attachable 14:19:55 <Terkhen> yes, that's what I meant 14:20:00 <andythenorth> trucks don't attach to each other 14:20:10 <Terkhen> I guess they would only differ on the handling of "failed cb" 14:20:12 <andythenorth> so basically trailers would need to handle CB1D to become trailers 14:20:18 <Terkhen> andythenorth: none by default 14:20:25 <frosch123> in fact, it would be uncommon if failing cb 1d for rv would allow attaching 14:20:33 <andythenorth> ok 14:20:44 <andythenorth> do it the other way - explicitly enable attaching 14:20:45 <andythenorth> fail by default 14:21:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: actually i see no point in generally allowing any attaching 14:21:28 <frosch123> that would allow attaching a bus to a truck engine 14:21:38 <andythenorth> yes 14:22:18 <frosch123> just take a look at the tons of complains, that trains allow attaching wagons from other grfs 14:22:29 <Terkhen> my preference for adding a callback flag was for not handling the CB1D differently, but I don't really mind if it is only the failed cb result 14:22:45 <frosch123> if rv engines allow attaching busses from other sets, that will certainly cause a lot of trouble 14:22:46 <andythenorth> frosch123 there are probably as many complaints the other way? :P 14:22:50 <andythenorth> anyway, I'm convinced 14:22:53 <andythenorth> by your argument 14:23:16 <andythenorth> so I should change the spec - default is to fail with the default message 14:24:18 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:24:27 <frosch123> not sure. i guess there is some difference between attaching rvs and trains 14:25:01 <frosch123> while you can attach most rv wagons to any rv which can accept some wagon, you usually cannot attach multiple rv engines 14:25:24 <andythenorth> I think that would have to be handled by the newgrf author 14:25:31 <frosch123> just because your truck can pull any trailer, it cannot pull every engine 14:25:55 <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/9Yh9kRDs 14:26:12 <frosch123> so, maybe multiheaded-compatible could be a misc flag for rv 14:26:27 <frosch123> i.e. most engines can only be put at the front, not as secondary engines 14:26:35 <andythenorth> I can think of edge cases where multi-headed RVs are desirable 14:26:40 <andythenorth> but they are definitely non-standard 14:27:03 <Terkhen> IIRC for starters we were going to disallow all multiheaded 14:27:05 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:27:13 <Terkhen> introducing a flag latter for those special cases would make sense 14:28:45 <andythenorth> really we could live without them 14:29:16 <andythenorth> Terkhen: don't we need to disallow them under the current RV acceleration model? 14:29:22 <andythenorth> RVs can't have powered trailing vehicles yes / no? 14:29:51 <Terkhen> I don't remember how is that handled, but since the code between trains and road vehicles is unified the change required should be minimal 14:30:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: articulated parts are never powered for consistency 14:30:20 <frosch123> that does not hold for separately attached things 14:30:29 <andythenorth> ok 14:30:45 <andythenorth> but would there be any harm in the spec saying "'Engines' cannot be attached as trailing vehicles. " 14:30:49 <andythenorth> ? 14:31:13 <frosch123> i guess not 14:31:34 <devilsadvocate> in RV, you mean? 14:31:36 <frosch123> am i right, that multiheaded rv usually consist of the same type of engine, i.e. are more like multiple-unit trains? 14:31:36 <andythenorth> means I can't add multiple bulldozers to a consist :P 14:31:55 <frosch123> and train MUs are not done via attaching multiple engines these days 14:32:04 <andythenorth> frosch123: multi-headed RVs are basically some form of heavy-haulage unit 14:32:19 <andythenorth> it would be 'nice' to be able to attach them, but not necessary 14:32:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF96E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: Terkhen i.e. I would like to include these in HEQS, which could be done as articulated RV, but much better creating a consist with attaching: 14:33:43 <andythenorth> http://www.ptrans.com.au/ 14:34:20 <andythenorth> another case would be this sort of heavy haul: http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/d_child_rotran.htm 14:34:54 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fntb.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:35:27 <frosch123> http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/dennis_child/rotra_sasol_reactors_man_tandem.jpg <- i ike the ABNORMAAL :p 14:35:39 <Terkhen> :D 14:36:13 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: FauxFaux, @Belugas, Eddi|zuHause2, glevans2, tokai|mdlx, mikegrb, Markavian, murr4y, ar3k, CIA-2, (+16 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 14:37:07 <Terkhen> what about the trams? :) 14:37:34 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d820f16.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:45 <andythenorth> multi-headed trams - good point 14:38:15 *** Fixer [~Fixer@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 14:38:17 <andythenorth> and also there might be a case for creating consists of PAX trams 14:38:36 <andythenorth> so if there's no implementation problem, engines should be attachable (if allowed) 14:38:41 *** Fixer [~Fixer@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 14:38:49 <andythenorth> does that need a flag on the lead vehicle, the one being attached, or both? 14:39:16 *** Netsplit over, joins: Andel, xiong, EyeMWing, verm__, FauxFaux, @Rubidium 14:40:10 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:10 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-58-238-188.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** ServerMode/#openttd [+ov Belugas Belugas] by oxygen.oftc.net 14:40:34 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** murr4y [~murray@122.84-48-65.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** PeterT [PeterT@peter.tarkoy.com] has joined #openttd 14:40:34 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess a flag for the second engine, and the usual cb for the front 14:46:04 <frosch123> wrt. trams: you do not need to attach multiple engines. isn't it more plausible than someone introduced a passenger wagon with livery override just as for trains? 14:46:29 <andythenorth> I don't know 14:46:34 <andythenorth> I don't understand livery over-rides 14:46:57 <frosch123> take a look at the train sets 14:47:01 <frosch123> e.g. 2cc 14:47:05 <andythenorth> how would I combine two articulated trams? 14:47:10 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:16 <frosch123> they have a mu wagon which you can attach to other mu-engines 14:47:17 <maddy_> hi folks 14:47:35 <andythenorth> is the mu wagon powered? 14:47:41 <planetmaker> can be 14:47:56 <andythenorth> so do RVs need powered wagon concept? 14:47:59 <planetmaker> there's a powered wagon CB 14:48:10 <planetmaker> rv don't need that imho 14:49:27 <frosch123> afaik the wagons are not powered usually, but the engine reports different power via cb36 depending on the number of attached wagons 14:49:44 <andythenorth> I can't think of a case where it would be needed for RVs 14:50:09 <andythenorth> do PAX trams need powered wagons? 14:51:43 <frosch123> you talked about attaching multiple trams 14:51:56 <frosch123> that can be done by attaching engines, or by attaching wagons 14:51:58 <andythenorth> I think that's cleaner 14:51:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21889 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4434]: crash when scrolling outside of the main window (with some video backends) 14:52:13 <andythenorth> I can't see a case for powered RV wagons using CB 14:52:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: might be, but it is not the way it is done for trains usually :) 14:52:31 <frosch123> at least in the train sets i used 14:52:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21890 /trunk/src/ (95 files in 10 dirs): -Cleanup: remove some unneeded includes 14:52:38 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-128.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:52:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@60.51.82.143] has joined #openttd 14:52:38 *** Maedhros [~d417gm@crystal-gauss.chem.dur.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:52:38 *** Mikael [~Mikael@46.32.63.243] has joined #openttd 14:52:38 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 14:52:42 <frosch123> maybe planetmaker knows better 14:52:44 <andythenorth> but trams != trains... 14:52:57 <frosch123> but, ottd player == ottd player 14:53:02 <planetmaker> :-P 14:53:30 <planetmaker> frosch123, I doubt that I know more about newgrfs than you ;-) 14:54:05 <frosch123> i am sure you played with more, and know whether you attach wagons or engines to mus 14:54:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am confused :) do you make case for or against having powered wagon cb? 14:54:22 <planetmaker> wagons are attached to mus 14:54:24 <frosch123> esp. as i dislike pax transporation and usually only do cargo 14:54:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: i am agains attaching multiple tram engines to make trams longer 14:54:53 <planetmaker> and they can have a powered wagon CB and thus provide power. 14:55:37 <andythenorth> I think it would be weird to have a 'tram' and then a 'fake tram' 14:56:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: how do you control the length of the tram? 14:56:13 <frosch123> do you attach multiple engines of each 3 articulated parts 14:56:18 <andythenorth> yes 14:56:33 <frosch123> or do you build one front, and then attach 5 wagons, which are partially powered 14:56:51 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:56:55 <andythenorth> articulated trams seem like fixed units to me 14:57:18 <frosch123> the latter is done by most train sets, the former is done by e.g. the csd train set 14:57:28 <frosch123> take a look at it, i consider it crappy gameplay :) 14:57:52 <andythenorth> so powered wagon cb is needed? 14:58:00 <frosch123> you want to control the length of trams with single wagons, not in bunches of 3 parts 14:58:17 <planetmaker> callback <whatever> defines "can wagon be attached" 14:58:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: not necessarily, there are multiple ways to code that 14:58:32 <planetmaker> that'd be what trains do 14:58:39 <frosch123> planetmaker: that part is easy, it is more about, "this engine can be attached to some other" 14:58:42 <frosch123> i.e. the reverse 14:58:52 <planetmaker> it's the same callback, though 14:58:59 * andythenorth is condused: how to add powered wagons without powered wagon cb ? 14:59:01 <planetmaker> it goes by ID - IIRC 14:59:06 <frosch123> just because you have a truck which can pull every trailer, it does not mean you can attach another truck to it 14:59:12 * Terkhen is confused by the same reason :) 14:59:19 <frosch123> planetmaker: but it is only from the pov of the front, not of the wagon 14:59:44 * andythenorth supposes consist length could be checked and hp adjusted accordingly? 14:59:47 <planetmaker> frosch123, true. But IIRC that works by ID, and you return the CB for 'can attach' true for those vehIDs which you like 14:59:58 <planetmaker> yes, from the engine, indeed 15:00:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: sure, but again: you do not ask the engine which is going to be attached 15:01:11 <frosch123> and that problem is bigger for rv than for trains 15:01:38 <frosch123> for trains it is mostly only about mixing grfs 15:02:15 <planetmaker> frosch123, maybe I did something wrong. But "MU" is an engine property with a CB where I add the singe wagon IDs which I want to allow 15:02:33 <planetmaker> It's quite limited, doesn't allow cross-grf-talk, but... well. It's ok 15:02:40 <Terkhen> bbl 15:03:03 <andythenorth> I thought the wagon being attached would check for IDs in the rest of the consist. 15:03:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: that part is fine. but now think about the reverse 15:03:21 <andythenorth> if all of those IDs are allowed, allow attaching 15:03:36 <planetmaker> uhm, yes? You mean a wagon which asks whether it wants to be able to be attached? 15:03:39 <planetmaker> Not possible afaik. 15:03:46 <frosch123> planetmaker: exactly 15:03:54 <frosch123> and i think that is important for rv 15:04:03 <planetmaker> uhm... is it? 15:04:06 <frosch123> but it might also be of use for trains 15:04:17 <planetmaker> yes, if for both, please ;-) 15:04:51 * andythenorth had misunderstood cb1D 15:04:56 <planetmaker> indeed, thinking of it, you're right. It just need both: can be attached and wants to be attached 15:05:20 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-126-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:05:24 <planetmaker> or better: can tow / can be towed 15:06:20 <andythenorth> some kind of friend / foes list :P 15:06:23 <maddy_> seems gui windows are of type "struct" in current version, but my patch uses "class", will that be a prob? 15:06:58 <frosch123> some compilers complain about deriving struct from class and vice versa 15:07:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth, nah, not explicitly. Just a callback to the (already existing) consist with "can I tow (more)" and another to the new vehicle which reads "can i be towed" 15:07:19 <frosch123> (iirc) 15:08:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if checking other vehicle IDs...it will come to a friends / foes list, but in a varaction 2 :D 15:09:21 <fonsinchen> hrm ... refactor smallmap to split out linkgraph overlay in a clean == produce a huge pile of trivial diff 15:09:32 <fonsinchen> not split out linkgraph overlay == ugly 15:10:20 <planetmaker> trivial diffs are more or less easy to review ;-) 15:10:44 <Terkhen> I'm a bit confused about this callback talk, I should try to code something with it before wondering how to make it work 15:10:58 <andythenorth> Terkhen: a train thing? 15:11:00 <fonsinchen> And it's a lot of boring work to produce them. 15:11:03 <andythenorth> or an RV thing? 15:12:58 <fonsinchen> well ... time to create some new branches 15:14:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: so if there was a new cb like 1D, but for the vehicle being attached... 15:15:09 <andythenorth> ....a special flag for 'allow multiple engines per consist' is not needed 15:18:48 <frosch123> yup 15:19:45 <andythenorth> is it a new cb, or a modification of 1D? 15:20:05 <andythenorth> I guess a new cb 15:21:13 <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes 15:21:54 <andythenorth> 15C? 15:26:16 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@75.91.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 15:27:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-126-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen: do you need to code a newgrf to get your head around it? 15:29:56 <planetmaker> opengfx+RV ;-) 15:32:26 <andythenorth> Terkhen: a good test for rv-wagons might be HEQS 2 15:32:41 * andythenorth is puzzled how version numbers work 15:33:00 <andythenorth> HEQS 1.0 will go into maintenance....so probably there will be HEQS 1.1, 1.2 etc 15:33:08 <andythenorth> probably a branch 15:33:15 <andythenorth> meanwhile HEQS 2 is a redevelopment 15:33:23 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:33:29 <andythenorth> so I guess I just have to use nightly build numbers :o 15:33:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-126-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:36:44 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-126-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43:18 <planetmaker> why do you? 15:44:10 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think so, it helped with the rest of callbacks 15:52:28 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest1210 15:52:31 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@135.140.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 15:53:06 *** Chruker [~no@87-104-39-161-dynamic-customer.profibernet.dk] has joined #openttd 15:56:28 *** Guest1210 [~ABCRic@75.91.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:48 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fntb.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 16:06:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:56 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has joined #openttd 16:09:35 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fntb.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:13:55 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 16:16:58 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:21:34 <andythenorth_> Terkhen: HEQS wouldn't be a bad place to hack 16:21:41 <andythenorth_> it has both rvs and rail vehicles... 16:21:52 <andythenorth_> and I have a case for new wagons using cb 1D 16:21:57 <andythenorth_> maybe 16:22:05 <Terkhen> I'll have a hard enough time trying to learn how to do it in NML :) 16:22:29 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:08 <andythenorth_> nfo puts it into your head with more...force :P 16:29:12 <andythenorth_> hmm 16:29:42 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:58 <andythenorth_> cb1D isn't what I need 16:31:14 <andythenorth_> I need the new, unimplemented 'check for this wagon' cb 16:31:14 <andythenorth_> :P 16:31:34 <Terkhen> andythenorth_: I agree, but NFO also gives you stronger headaches 16:31:50 <andythenorth_> that is the sign of the brain learning : 16:31:52 <andythenorth_> :P 16:32:08 <andythenorth_> frosch123: what would be a good ID for the new cb? 16:33:50 <glx> next free ID maybe 16:34:04 <andythenorth_> looks like 15C 16:37:26 <frosch123> yup, next free one :p 16:43:41 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-126-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 16:45:36 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:02:38 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 17:02:49 <DanMacK> Hey all 17:03:11 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: tokai|mdlx, Maedhros, Mikael, KouDy, Noldo 17:04:48 *** Netsplit over, joins: tokai|mdlx, KouDy, Maedhros, Mikael, Noldo 17:07:27 <Terkhen> hi DanMacK 17:08:06 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has joined #openttd 17:08:06 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has left #openttd [independentt@hotmail.com] 17:08:26 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has joined #openttd 17:08:27 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has left #openttd [independentt@hotmail.com] 17:11:28 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has joined #openttd 17:11:29 *** MtlGuard [~jk26@114.243.64.28] has left #openttd [independentt@hotmail.com] 17:15:22 <andythenorth_> hmm 17:15:30 <andythenorth_> cb 15C looks to be occupied 17:15:38 <andythenorth_> objects 17:15:41 <andythenorth_> 15E then 17:20:27 <__ln__> wouldn't a window seat be nicer 17:20:31 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@114.243.64.28] by SmatZ 17:33:19 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:38:23 <andythenorth_> cb1D looks to be train specific at the moment 17:38:40 <andythenorth_> at least, it's defined in train_cmd.cpp 17:38:50 <planetmaker> nice when finally theory and experiment somewhat agree... and two ways to solve one problem give the same result :-) 17:38:55 <andythenorth_> would it be better to unify train / rv stuff before or after adding a cb? 17:39:06 <planetmaker> I earned my dinner today ;-) 17:39:43 <Terkhen> andythenorth_: in which part of train code is it being called? 17:40:06 <andythenorth_> Terkhen: CheckTrainAttachment 17:40:14 <andythenorth_> l973 17:40:38 <andythenorth_> maybe that calls another function already? 17:40:40 <andythenorth_> that isn't train specific? 17:41:31 <Terkhen> at first glance that function does not have many train specific code 17:41:58 <Terkhen> it would get unified up to ground_vehicle at some point in rv-wagons 17:42:29 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:43:18 <andythenorth_> I should read it more :P 17:43:27 <andythenorth_> (baby bath time right now) 17:47:36 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:47:51 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:32 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 17:55:04 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest1221 17:55:11 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@55.180.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 17:58:31 *** Guest1221 [~ABCRic@135.140.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:01:10 * andythenorth_ just fell down the stairs 18:01:10 <andythenorth_> and isn't even drunk :P 18:05:12 <SmatZ> :-x 18:06:18 <andythenorth_> no damage to my laptop though :P 18:06:24 <andythenorth_> no code was lost :P 18:08:18 <andythenorth_> I don't understand how GetVehicleCallbackParent is handling wagon attachment 18:08:39 <andythenorth_> it seems to offload the check somewhere else, but I can't see where 18:10:25 <andythenorth_> I'm in newgrf_engine.cpp 18:10:26 <peter1138> parent = head of chain 18:11:40 <andythenorth_> ok 18:11:55 <Rubidium> looks like that callback is "special" in the way that it passes the parent instead of getting the parent from the vehicle 18:12:18 <Rubidium> which makes sense as it's not yet connected, although NewGRFs assume it to be connected for the test 18:12:22 <andythenorth_> and the actual logic for 'allowed / not allowed' -> return value is all in nfo? 18:12:29 <Rubidium> yes 18:12:31 <andythenorth_> and the cb just gets back a value from a varaction 2 ? 18:12:38 <andythenorth_> ok 18:12:41 <Rubidium> precisely 18:12:59 * andythenorth_ was looking for some 'if' code that won't exist :P 18:13:01 <Rubidium> a few lines later callback is evaluated 18:13:15 <Rubidium> s/callback/callback result/ 18:22:07 *** ABCRic_ [~ABCRic@55.180.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 18:22:07 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest1224 18:22:07 *** ABCRic_ is now known as ABCRic 18:26:28 *** Guest1224 [~ABCRic@55.180.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:31 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.17.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:27 <__ln__> is there a term for the sensation of surprisedness that a frenchman (or a belgian) experiences when he realises the person he's speaking to does not understand french? 18:46:12 <Alberth> 'impossible' 18:49:21 <__ln__> 'vousneparlezpasfrançais!?' is a bit long for a term 18:49:50 <Terkhen> ':O' 18:50:20 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-30-225.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:50:34 <__ln__> such an observation usually doesn't stop them from continuing to talk in french 18:51:49 <ABCRic> je ne parle pas français? 18:52:01 *** lightekk is now known as PUB|lightekk 18:52:24 *** fjb is now known as Guest1227 18:52:26 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC77E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:11 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-61.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:13 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-14-44.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:54 <andythenorth_> frosch123: adding a new attach cb... 18:55:11 <andythenorth_> would that need to be checked after current attach cb check? 18:55:57 <frosch123> i guess it needs calling at the same point in the code. but i guess it does not matter which one first 18:56:25 <andythenorth_> so l982-991 in train_cmd.cpp would basically need repeating? 18:56:27 <Terkhen> will this cause another mayhem such as CB15/CB36? :P 18:56:36 <andythenorth_> and something like this adding: 18:56:37 <andythenorth_> uint16 callback = GetVehicleCallback(CBID_WAGON_ALLOW_ATTACH_TO_CONSIST, 0, 0, head->engine_type, t, head); 18:57:44 <frosch123> not 'head' 18:57:54 <frosch123> you want to call it for the wagon, not for the head 18:59:00 <andythenorth_> vehicle->engine_type? 18:59:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21891 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): 18:59:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:59:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 1 changes by nurriz 18:59:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: japanese - 12 changes by kokubunzi 18:59:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 1 changes by ntadej 18:59:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: turkish - 107 changes by niw3 18:59:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 60 changes by Fixer 18:59:14 *** Guest1227 [~frank@p5DDFCECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:48 <frosch123> i guess GetVehicleCallback(CBID_WAGON_ALLOW_ATTACH_TO_CONSIST, 0, 0, t->engine_type, t) 19:00:40 * andythenorth_ isn't sure about the invalidate cache stuff 19:00:45 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:00:49 <andythenorth_> does that need repeating if two cbs are handled? 19:01:07 <frosch123> no 19:01:14 <frosch123> that is only for moving the vehicle 19:01:33 <frosch123> i.e. the function attached the wagon, then calls the callbacks, and detaches the wagon again 19:03:21 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/pxtsRqDg 19:03:21 <andythenorth_> ? 19:03:46 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:04:05 <frosch123> there the wagon is already partly detached again 19:04:23 <frosch123> call the callback immediatelly after the other, and assign the result to callback2 or whateer :) 19:05:34 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/7Rh6PNRv 19:06:37 <frosch123> looks a bit duplicated, but should work 19:07:05 <andythenorth_> so I need to add the cb to newgrf_callbacks.h 19:07:12 <andythenorth_> is it that simple :o 19:07:17 <frosch123> :) 19:07:53 <frosch123> likely also to table/newgrf_debug_data.h 19:16:52 <andythenorth_> frosch123: no cb mask in this case? 19:16:58 <andythenorth_> i.e. I can set CBM_NO_BIT 19:17:27 <frosch123> andythenorth_: i guess it would be better if you change the cb results to < 0x3FF for custom text, 0x400 = allowed, 0x401... 19:17:44 <frosch123> cb1d has no mask either 19:20:00 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/jBj0gHne 19:20:22 <frosch123> aren't they sorted by id? 19:21:11 *** Chruker [~no@87-104-39-161-dynamic-customer.profibernet.dk] has quit [] 19:21:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC56B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:20 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/2G4Y3dDS 19:23:16 <frosch123> s/ /\t/ 19:23:30 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-180-179.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:24:21 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-30-225.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:44 <andythenorth_> ? 19:25:47 <andythenorth_> tabs vs. spaces? 19:26:01 <frosch123> yeah :) 19:26:32 <andythenorth_> silly old xcode 19:27:12 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/memnWC9w 19:27:22 * andythenorth_ should write newgrf to test this :P 19:40:47 <DanMacK> Go for it :D 19:41:08 <DanMacK> Use a dozer and a trailer to test :P 19:44:51 <Alberth> andythenorth_: Gmund Mog is not very useful is it? 2t fruit & vegetables 19:44:53 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-180-179.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:58 <andythenorth_> he 19:45:10 <andythenorth_> haul ENSP + FMSP with it 19:45:16 <andythenorth_> or....help with rv-wagons :P 19:45:21 <Terkhen> isn't it is a bit slow for that? 19:45:40 <andythenorth_> http://pastebin.com/YS1cSmGa 19:46:22 <Alberth> 51km/h is not bad compared to the alternatives No 6 or 8 crawler, at 16/17 km/h :) 19:48:57 * andythenorth_ broke the compile 19:49:06 <Terkhen> I usually use HEQS along with another road vehicle set 19:51:22 * andythenorth_ fixes the compile 19:53:18 <andythenorth_> here's my diff :) http://pastebin.com/jTkSdJxB 19:53:19 <andythenorth_> now to make a newgrf 19:58:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:18 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76176.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:41 <Terkhen> hmm... stupid templates 20:10:53 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:35 <Wolf01> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs742.ash1/163410_183782664966634_133455056666062_677819_6354317_n.jpg they noticed the pre r21863 cargo bug too :P 20:12:29 <__ln__> what's the fail part of the photo, everyone seems to have a seat 20:12:55 <Wolf01> they could have used a larger train, see the tracks 20:17:20 * andythenorth_ forgets 20:17:32 <andythenorth_> how do I handle a cb ID that doesn't fit in a byte? 20:17:50 <andythenorth_> do I just go word sized, or do I add 80? 20:27:24 <frosch123> you _always_ have to use words for checking callback ids 20:27:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:35:50 <andythenorth_> hmm 20:36:43 <andythenorth_> frosch123: this shouldn't work then? http://pastebin.com/WHGSfHRP 20:38:29 <frosch123> that makes use of some downwards-compatibility thing 20:38:48 <frosch123> imagine there would be a callback 0x123 20:38:57 <andythenorth_> I'll amend 20:38:58 <frosch123> you would put it in the 0x23 case 20:39:32 <frosch123> that's the reason why cb numbering jumped from 3d to 140 :) 20:40:12 <frosch123> everyone was only testing the byte, so when cb 00 to ff would have been assigned, you would be screwed when adding 100 20:42:13 <andythenorth_> 15E is 01 5E 20:42:19 <andythenorth_> or 15 E0? 20:42:32 <planetmaker> \wx15E 20:42:42 <andythenorth_> heh 20:43:00 <planetmaker> escapes rule ;-) 20:43:32 <andythenorth_> not as pretty :| 20:43:46 <andythenorth_> less rhythmic 20:45:04 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: how do I stop make bailing out on a renum error? 20:45:15 <andythenorth_> there's a switch? 20:45:59 <frosch123> make -ik 20:47:15 <planetmaker> make NFO_WARN_LEVEL=10 20:47:21 <frosch123> btw... is brainfuck highlighting suitable for nfo? 20:47:49 <andythenorth_> it seems to be my saved selection at pastebin :) 20:47:52 <andythenorth_> hmm 20:47:54 <andythenorth_> my new cb doesn't 20:52:53 <andythenorth_> :( 20:55:03 <andythenorth_> frosch123: this is my nfo http://pastebin.com/UrN1KUki 20:55:44 <andythenorth_> and this is my ottd diff: http://pastebin.com/7eQLyKm3 20:56:50 <frosch123> both look fine :) 20:56:55 <andythenorth_> gah 20:57:16 <andythenorth_> maybe there's more to do to create this cb 20:58:12 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:13 <andythenorth_> frosch123: in context of CheckTrainAttachment, what is variable t? 21:00:18 <andythenorth_> the vehicle, or the train it's being attached to? 21:01:23 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:02:44 <andythenorth_> hmm 21:02:49 * andythenorth_ sees some problems 21:03:12 <frosch123> t is the wagon 21:03:13 <andythenorth_> callback and callback2 are silly variable names :P 21:03:34 <andythenorth_> and I'm silly for not updating references to callback 21:03:35 <planetmaker> that depends 21:04:25 <andythenorth_> ha 21:04:39 <andythenorth_> this might just work :) 21:07:52 <frosch123> on rereading. i guess you need to use GetVehicleCallbackParent() instead of GetVehicleCallback() for this callback as well. looks like the wagon is not attached while calling the callback 21:08:04 <frosch123> but that should not hurt your testgrf 21:09:19 <andythenorth_> frosch123: I had missed something stupid 21:09:24 <andythenorth_> it currently seems to work 21:09:25 <andythenorth_> more or less 21:09:39 <andythenorth_> there is an odd edge case I just found with a savegame 21:09:47 <andythenorth_> so I have enabled 15E for a rail vehicle 21:10:00 <andythenorth_> and return FD to prevent attach 21:10:10 <andythenorth_> but in my savegame these vehicles are already in a consist 21:10:23 <andythenorth_> I can't take vehicles out of the consist to an empty line in depot 21:10:40 <andythenorth_> it's correct 21:10:45 <andythenorth_> but might be problematic? 21:10:48 <frosch123> move all at once 21:11:12 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1A8CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:47 <andythenorth_> I'll screenshot 21:13:15 <frosch123> buy a new wagon to a separate line, then ctrl+drag the whole consist behind it 21:13:23 <frosch123> you should always be allowed to do that 21:15:19 <andythenorth_> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/cb15E.png 21:15:24 <andythenorth_> you're right about the new wagon method 21:15:25 <andythenorth_> works 21:15:31 <andythenorth_> the other behaviour is correct 21:15:41 <andythenorth_> and should only occur in the case of save games 21:16:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B1D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:31 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 21:17:29 <andythenorth_> frosch123: what else needs to be done for this? 21:17:41 <andythenorth_> you suggested changing the cb return values? 21:17:47 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:38 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:07 <andythenorth_> the defines (constants?) names should be cleaned up 21:19:39 <frosch123> andythenorth_: you seem to need GetVehicleCallbackParent(), so the parent scope is set up correctly 21:20:05 <andythenorth_> CBID_TRAIN_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH is too train specific 21:20:05 <andythenorth_> CBID_WAGON_ALLOW_ATTACH_TO_CONSIST implies specific to wagons 21:20:37 <frosch123> grf version 8 will change all those 0xfd, fe, ff special results, and replace them with >= 400, so you can use all D4xx text itds 21:21:01 <andythenorth_> what's the issue? Some varacts will fail if they reference (e.g. 82)? 21:21:13 <frosch123> i am not sure whether it is better to do that in advance for new callbacks, or whether it is better to make cb 1d and 15e consistent 21:21:46 <frosch123> andythenorth_: the cb is called while the wagon is not attached, so parent scope will refer to the wagon as well 21:21:55 <frosch123> so you cannot access the head 21:22:01 <andythenorth_> ok 21:22:12 <andythenorth_> do I need to use head->engine_type in params? 21:22:19 <andythenorth_> instead of t->engine_type 21:24:46 <frosch123> no 21:24:58 <andythenorth_> but I do need to add head to params? 21:24:58 <frosch123> you need to append head as the additional parameter to the other function 21:25:02 <andythenorth_> or it doesn't compile :) 21:25:16 <andythenorth_> uint16 callback2 = GetVehicleCallbackParent(CBID_WAGON_ALLOW_ATTACH_TO_CONSIST, 0, 0, t->engine_type, t, head); 21:25:18 <andythenorth_> seems to work 21:25:25 <frosch123> :) 21:25:30 <andythenorth_> callback2 looks like a silly name to me 21:26:07 <frosch123> i guess keep the cb results as they are 21:26:15 <andythenorth_> ok 21:26:29 <andythenorth_> so should I clean up the var names callback and callback2? 21:26:38 <andythenorth_> I don't really know the ruling style :P 21:26:44 <frosch123> if you can come up with good ones :) i cannot :p 21:26:54 <andythenorth_> callback1 and callback2 :P 21:27:19 <andythenorth_> cb_result_1, cb_result_2 21:27:38 <frosch123> then i prefer wagon_callback and engine_callback 21:28:18 <andythenorth_> fine by me 21:28:37 <andythenorth_> my code always has very long var names, which seems to bother other people :) 21:30:18 <andythenorth_> CBID_TRAIN_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH <- is that define or a constan? 21:30:20 <andythenorth_> +t 21:31:13 <andythenorth_> i.e. what is correctly known as when discussing? 21:37:23 <frosch123> what? 21:39:32 <andythenorth_> when asking questions, I don't know how to refer to the things in src that look to me like CPP defines 21:39:50 <frosch123> CBID_TRAIN_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH is an enumeration value 21:40:18 <andythenorth_> ok 21:41:04 <andythenorth_> I've changed it to CBID_ENGINE_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH 21:41:25 * andythenorth_ wonders if cb1D is only applied to lead vehicle, or all engines in consist? 21:41:31 <andythenorth_> looks like lead vehicle only 21:42:44 <frosch123> yeah, we do not call 16384 callbacks for trains of 128 wagons :p 21:42:50 <frosch123> hmm, 8192 only 21:42:59 <andythenorth_> heh 21:43:01 <andythenorth_> I think I've done it 21:43:03 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-176-109.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:43:10 <andythenorth_> post to fs? 21:43:20 <frosch123> where else? 21:43:39 <frosch123> i doubt anyone on the forums can make use of it :) 21:46:41 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 21:46:43 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:06 <andythenorth_> frosch123: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4437 21:50:10 <frosch123> please add the testgrf as well :) 21:56:37 <andythenorth_> frosch123: it's uploading....ridiculously slowly :o 21:56:50 <andythenorth_> it may time out :o 21:58:29 <andythenorth_> frosch123: I was just thinking about rv-wagon attachment 21:58:55 <andythenorth_> if there were several truck sets, it might worth providing a way for trailers in one to be compatible with trailers in another... 21:59:14 <andythenorth_> i.e. a system of labels + a translation table 21:59:24 <Terkhen> :O 21:59:31 <Terkhen> that sounds scary 22:00:20 <andythenorth_> for articulated (fifth wheel trucks) it would need the graphics to be highly standardised 22:00:34 <andythenorth_> for drawbar (conventional) trailers it would work quite easily 22:00:56 <andythenorth_> frosch123: fs updated http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4437 22:01:24 <andythenorth_> Terkhen: I now understand attachment a little better :) 22:03:00 <Terkhen> I'm not sure that's good news if that understanding leads to scary stuff like labels :P 22:03:13 <andythenorth_> forget them for now :) 22:03:29 <Terkhen> ok :) 22:04:14 * andythenorth_ wonders why it wasn't suggested before by anyone 22:04:37 <andythenorth_> it would be a way to provide cross-grf attachment rules without having to check grfids 22:05:56 <Terkhen> how many labels would that need? 22:06:02 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure 22:06:19 <andythenorth_> cargo labels have (mostly) worked because mb is very anal about them 22:06:20 <andythenorth_> which is useful 22:06:41 <andythenorth_> rail type labels are...unproven wrt to how useful they are + whether they will degrade 22:06:51 <andythenorth_> for rvs...let me think 22:07:21 <Terkhen> the issue I'm seeing is that you can have many more engines than cargo types, so you would need much more labels 22:07:44 <frosch123> andythenorth_: currently every fool defines his own rail labels, though you cannot necessarily tell the difference 22:08:40 <andythenorth_> for trucks it would really only be 'articulated' and 'drawbar' 22:09:29 <andythenorth_> anything relating to cargos for example should be handled by varaction 2 in cb 15E, not by esoteric labels 22:09:46 <andythenorth_> trams shouldn't need labels 22:10:03 <andythenorth_> farm tractors and other odd vehicles would need a bit of thought 22:11:13 <andythenorth_> it would need to check the vehicle being attached to, not the lead vehicle 22:11:24 <andythenorth_> it would also need to then check the following vehicle to 22:11:26 <andythenorth_> hmm 22:11:43 <Terkhen> :) 22:12:20 <andythenorth_> it's basically to do with how vehicles are physically coupled together 22:13:55 <andythenorth_> a smart newgrf author might be able to handle it all with graphics.... 22:14:27 <andythenorth_> but the graphics would need to depend on the preceeding vehicle 22:17:17 <Terkhen> I think this is quite subjective 22:17:35 <Terkhen> unless there is some kind of unified view everybody will do whatever he wants with the labels 22:17:36 <andythenorth_> I think it's down to newgrf authors to handle 22:17:42 <andythenorth_> no labels 22:17:57 <Terkhen> also, engines are not as standarized as cargos or railtypes 22:18:24 <andythenorth_> it will produce the interesting result that truck sets will be incompatible with each other 22:18:39 <andythenorth_> i.e. truck in set A can't haul trailers from set B 22:18:59 <andythenorth_> but that's better than no rv-wagons at all 22:21:44 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:57 * andythenorth_ can't see a varact 2 for getting ID of preceeding / following vehicle in a chain 22:22:05 <andythenorth_> I don't want to check their props, just ID 22:23:34 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:23:59 <andythenorth_> like var C6, but with offsets of +1 or -1 in the consist from current vehicle 22:28:30 * andythenorth_ bed time 22:28:55 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:17 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:29:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:30:00 <Terkhen> good night 22:35:07 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:39:05 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:42:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:33 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 22:43:48 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest1250 22:43:54 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@154.50.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 22:48:33 *** Guest1250 [~ABCRic@55.180.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:40 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:58:02 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 22:59:45 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:13 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 23:07:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21892 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#4421]: only some scenarios from the main scenario folder and no heightmaps could be started in the "start server" window 23:08:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21893 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Update (r21892): remove the strings from the other language files as well 23:09:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21894 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp openttd.h): -Cleanup: get rid of the unused SM_START_SCENARIO 23:09:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21895 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h fios_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: get rid of the unused SLD_NEW_GAME 23:13:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21896 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Cleanup: remove the unused StartScenario 23:18:47 <SmatZ> Ammler: the suse build system should expect that 23:19:02 <SmatZ> like, compile with -D__TIME__=1234 ... or sth like that :) 23:19:27 <SmatZ> also, makedepend (or other tools) tell you what headers are needed for rebuild 23:19:31 <SmatZ> including system libraries 23:19:42 <SmatZ> so if those changes, then the package should be rebuilt 23:19:52 <SmatZ> (unless you are using static linking) 23:20:36 <SmatZ> Ammler: just replace __DATE__/__TIME__ by "built by OpenSuSE", or whatever you feel nice :) 23:20:49 <Ammler> well, for openttd it isn't that bad as it is a "end binary" 23:21:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:39 <Ammler> but it would be bad, if e.g. grfcodec would use it 23:22:21 <Rubidium> Ammler: ask him how we should be able to detect which build of the OBS system is creating the crash 23:22:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5c4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:51 <Rubidium> as apparantly we are not allowed to store "rebuild" information into the binary 23:23:17 <Ammler> Rubidium: how does debian handle that? 23:23:17 <Rubidium> i.e. you're not allowed to change the version number either as that would give a different binary and rebuild stuff as well 23:23:28 <Rubidium> it just rebuilds the binary 23:23:54 <Rubidium> if it's a library and the ABI changes all packages depending on the ABI are rebuilt 23:24:17 <Rubidium> otherwise it doesn't rebuild stuff 23:24:34 <Rubidium> as that'd be insane for each time core utils or gcc is updated 23:24:42 <Ammler> yes, but what if the rebuild time is the only thing, which changed? 23:25:00 <Rubidium> Ammler: that's not happening with Debian 23:25:15 <Rubidium> there's always a reasonable reason to rebuild 23:25:37 <Ammler> so if grfcodec changes, openttd would not rebuild? 23:25:49 <Rubidium> yes, it's not needed is it? 23:26:03 <Ammler> and how does the buildsystem know that? 23:26:36 <Rubidium> the binary package doesn't depend on grfcodec 23:26:41 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest1262 23:26:43 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@170.214.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 23:26:44 <Rubidium> only the source package does 23:27:06 <Rubidium> even then, SuSE rebuilds the WHOLE repository each time gcc is updated? 23:27:33 <Ammler> I think so, yes 23:28:41 <Rubidium> I know that occasionally a huge farm is used to rebuild the whole of Debian's repository to find broken builds, but that's only testing one architecture 23:28:49 <Ammler> hmm, maybe not, I need to ask 23:28:58 <Rubidium> and not the dozen or so architectures Debian supports 23:29:54 <Ammler> well, usual persons can only use i586 and x86_64 on suse, the rest needs some privilegs 23:30:01 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-76-217.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:23 *** Guest1262 [~ABCRic@154.50.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:31 <Ammler> there are 200 build hosts running for those 2 23:32:57 <Rubidium> Debian has only a hand full of builders for those platforms 23:34:10 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@170.214.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: The bad thing about quit messages is that you never know how people react to them.] 23:35:29 <Rubidium> handfull = 5 for i386 and amd64 combined 23:35:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 23:36:47 <Rubidium> which is more than enough as those boxes are idling quite a lot 23:37:04 <Rubidium> really makes a difference whether gcc compiles in 4 or 24 hours 23:37:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:56 <guru3> Right. Got to 1st on the Company League Table in this online game. Now I can go to bed. 23:38:00 <Ammler> since everyone can make his own repos and quite easy branch packages and add his own patches, the suse hosts are quite busy, mostly >1000 packages in the queue 23:39:16 <Rubidium> (or 3 vs 31 hours for openoffice) 23:39:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 23:39:57 <guru3> Good night. 23:40:36 <Ammler> a lot people have their custom kernels 23:44:37 <Ammler> Rubidium: I asked anc got confirmed, changed gcc does also rebuild openttd :-) 23:45:23 <Rubidium> that does more harm w.r.t. rebuilds than our debugging stuff 23:45:30 <Ammler> that is why __DATE__ and __TIME__ is bad on obs :-) 23:45:58 <Rubidium> Ammler: but updating gcc more or less implies that the binaries will be different anyhow 23:46:19 <Ammler> well, they said, I could also just ignore the warning which I do for openttd, as it is end product 23:47:01 <Ammler> Rubidium: yes, in our case, it would harm if grfcodec would have such a thing 23:47:09 <Rubidium> not really 23:47:36 <Wolf01> 'night 23:47:43 <Rubidium> as it'd basically only be rebuilt when there's a new gcc, and then OpenTTD would be rebuilt in any case 23:47:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host179-63-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:57 <Rubidium> likewise for libpng (as OpenTTD depends on that as well) 23:48:44 <Ammler> maybe you are right :-) (and lucky) 23:48:51 <Rubidium> even though it's completely unneeded for OpenTTD to be recompiled when libpng gets updated, except when the API/ABI changes in such a way it's not binary compatible anymore 23:49:00 <Ammler> but you see, that the warning about it is legal? 23:49:39 <Rubidium> Ammler: but... my point is: how would you know which of the many rebuilds you have, and as such what library/compiler/whatnot it's compiled with 23:49:41 <Ammler> Rubidium: it is good to know, if openttd does still build with newer libpng 23:50:15 <Rubidium> Ammler: in 99% of the cases newer is just some additions or internal library changes 23:50:58 <Rubidium> they better spend a few days in analysing the library, than to spend a load of time into making packages not use some arbitrary defines 23:51:30 <Ammler> hehe 23:51:44 <Rubidium> for what it's worth, we list the gcc and library versions as well in the crash log 23:52:18 <Rubidium> so if *any* of those are updated the data in the crash log will change 23:52:30 <Ammler> those are legal changes 23:53:00 <Ammler> Rubidium: just imagine, we would use build date and time for the newgrfs 23:53:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@82-69-99-113.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:53:38 <Rubidium> Ammler: to counter that, then we'd be storing the version of grfcodec in the NewGRF as well 23:54:02 *** PUB|lightekk is now known as lightekk 23:54:39 <Ammler> yes, we know, why you don't :-) 23:54:53 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:55:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: but if they don't like __DATE__ and such, we could just rebuild rev.cpp each time and inject the date into there so their system doesn't notice it 23:55:50 <Ammler> nah, that would just hide the error 23:55:59 <Ammler> as said, I can ignore it, no issue 23:56:40 <Ammler> I was just wondering, why the newest rpmlint does warn about and got the answer 23:57:07 *** lightekk is now known as DRUNK|lightekk 23:57:22 <Rubidium> openttd.i586:âW:âno-manual-page-for-binaryâopenttd 23:57:26 <Rubidium> what? 23:57:50 <Ammler> that is because I splitted the package for dedicated binary 23:57:58 <Ammler> so the man page is in data 23:58:05 <Ammler> subpackage* 23:59:31 <__ln__> *split, split, split 23:59:43 <Ammler> that is something I could bugreport