Config
Log for #openttd on 28th June 2011:
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00:01:02  <MNIM> nobody ever learns. :P
00:01:12  <MNIM> we just think we'd about know it by now
00:01:48  <Mazur> Yeah.
00:01:59  <Mazur> Registry of my old PC, I think.
00:02:18  <Mazur> I mean, it's in hte registry, no?
00:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what's an XP key?
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00:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, you mean the license code
00:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is stored in the registry somewhere
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00:05:53  <Mazur> Thnx
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01:22:18  <lugo> www-client/chromium-13.0.782.32       merge time: 12 hours, 7 minutes and 57 seconds
01:22:22  <lugo> wtf..
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07:03:46  <Terkhen> good morning
07:20:10  <__ln__> good morning, sir
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07:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> MB: "Und warum sollst *du* mich diesbzgl "beschwatzen"? Kann Ingo nicht selber schreiben?" :p
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08:00:22  <planetmaker> moin
08:00:27  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: in reply to what?
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08:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the railtypes thing ;)
08:01:14  <planetmaker> well, I left that to you on purpose :-P
08:01:44  <planetmaker> got a link? Or via e-mail?
08:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> PM
08:02:22  <planetmaker> well... should I write?
08:02:56  <planetmaker> I mean... after all the rail classification thing as we consider was in this form your idea...
08:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll answer him, but first i have a dentist appointment... :(
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08:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> he also says there is already a CETS (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47655)
08:17:10  <Mazur> Nice!
08:17:27  <Mazur> I had my system tuned to perfection, everything working....
08:18:11  <Mazur> And they had to bloody go and change SYSV init scripts and something to do with sound, so the whole bloody mess fails at EVERY TURN again.
08:18:31  <Mazur> Hand me a machine gun, someone.
08:18:51  <planetmaker> Well... maybe we should re-consider the name, though... not sure
08:19:06  <planetmaker> maybe TOC ;-)
08:19:14  <planetmaker> trains of central Europe ;-)
08:21:40  <peter1138> well it seems to be dead anyway
08:29:39  <planetmaker> yes... that's why I'd not be overly concerned to continue to use cets
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08:44:54  <Mazur> Ah, there ismy sound.
08:45:22  <Mazur> They muted it in an uprgade.
08:46:01  <Mazur> SOmething like: "Oh, wanna use fedora 15?  You know, then you will not want your sound anymore.  No, we know better than you."
08:46:29  <Mazur> "No, really.  Turn it off!"
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08:46:59  * Mazur tracks and tortures whoever had that bright idea.;
08:47:43  <peter1138> well, if you will use fedora...
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09:24:50  <fjb_> Poor Eddi.
09:29:33  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker, or maybe merge with that existing cets?
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09:41:50  <planetmaker> for certain definitions of 'merge'
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09:51:52  <Mazur> peter1138, what's the best distro these days, then?
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10:08:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: the focus of that set is rather South-East Europe than central Europe ;-)
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10:37:20  <Sacro> mroning peter1138
10:37:29  <Sacro> oh damn it, missed by a minute
10:37:32  <Sacro> or have I
10:37:33  <peter1138> awww
10:37:36  <peter1138> yeah :(
10:37:40  <Sacro> /bin/sh: ntpdate: not found
10:37:42  <Sacro> D:
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11:43:53  <__LN__> GUESS WHAT DAY IT IS
11:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> PLANETMAKER: I GUESS THE MEANING OF "CENTER" VARIES ON YOUR OWN POSITION :P
11:44:58  <Eddi|zuHause> DAMN, MY CAPS IS STUCK
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12:26:30  <Ammler> well, then call your set DeutschelandeBÀhndle
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12:37:51  <dihedral> "ich liebe deutscheland..."
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12:47:18  <Vikthor> "Das alles ist Deutschland - das alles sind wir ..."  :p
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13:50:03  <H-land> I need some advice. I'm bored, and not quite sure what I want to do, but I think I want to play OpenTTD. I've got 1.1.0 downloaded on this machine, with trams and... well, that's the only NewGRF I'm using. What new NewGRFs should I try out?
13:52:31  <H-land> Well. Guess this is the time of day when the channel is asleep, then.
13:54:32  <lugo> H-land, av8, ukrs, egrvts, FIRS and FISH are a good start i think :)
13:55:08  <H-land> Okay. I'll take a look at those.
13:55:11  <MNIM> sorry, being lame
13:55:34  <MNIM> and I agree with that. not sure about ukrs. Id sooner advise ttrs
13:55:40  <lugo> respectivly replacing aircrafts, trains, buses/lorries, industries and ships
13:55:46  <lugo> MNIM, ukrs is a train set
13:55:58  <MNIM> oh, thought it was road set, not rail set
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14:29:19  <planetmaker> H-land: it strongly depends on what you like
14:29:29  <planetmaker> bug... lugo's advice is somewhat my own, too
14:29:42  <planetmaker> Additionally, if you want to start slowly, I rcommend to use the OpenGFX+ series
14:29:48  <H-land> I'm trying out the FISH and FIRS right now.
14:29:59  <planetmaker> which enhances defaults without completely modifying everything
14:30:22  <H-land> And the eGVRTS.
14:32:11  <planetmaker> all good choices. But you're missing a train set
14:32:21  <planetmaker> or you'll not enjoy FIRS
14:32:40  <planetmaker> Thus... possibly go for OpenGFX+ Trains additionally
14:33:52  <planetmaker> [15:54]	H-land	Well. Guess this is the time of day when the channel is asleep, then. <-- btw: 5 minutes response time is NOT long. It's not like people here constantly look at the channel only waiting for given the chance to answer a question ;-)
14:34:40  <planetmaker> though... European evening hourse are the most busy ones in this channel. And it's not yet evening ;-)
14:34:42  <H-land> I'm just used to move chitchat and such in channels with over 50 people, I guess.
14:34:57  <planetmaker> most here are around 24/7
14:35:02  <planetmaker> but not physically
14:35:20  <planetmaker> they'll use a bouncer which gives them the history once they connect
14:35:25  <planetmaker> just as I do ;-)
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14:40:11  <Terkhen> for example, I have to go now but the bouncer will stay connected
14:40:12  <Terkhen> bbl
14:43:59  <Chris_Booth> afternoon all
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15:25:45  <MNIM> hmmmmh
15:25:49  <MNIM> oopsie
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15:39:05  <Terkhen> hi
15:40:55  <Chris_Booth> hi Terkhen
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15:53:30  <H-land> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1513855/openttd/Clipboard01.png Assuming I want this stub-end station to connect to a main line perpendicular to it... That is, any suggestions on what I should do with interchanges?
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15:56:07  <Chris_Booth> H-land: remove the 2 way signals infornt of the platforms
15:56:23  <Chris_Booth> and then build a nice Side line hub in front of it
15:56:29  <Chris_Booth> the connect to a 4 lines ML
15:56:39  <Chris_Booth> T junctions are easiest to build
15:57:15  <Chris_Booth> maybe check wiki.openttd.org or wiki.openttdcoop.org for ideas
15:57:24  <Chris_Booth> they both have noice building guides on them
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16:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause> put path signals in front of the platforms
16:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause> do not ever put path and block signals on the same junction
16:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> build a second X, that's a major bottleneck
16:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or make the entry in-out-in-out
16:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of in-in-out-out
16:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> (preferably both)
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17:05:20  <alluke> what set are those waypoint from?
17:05:21  <alluke> http://wiki.openttd.org/images/2/21/Checkpoints.png
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17:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause> those are the default waypoints
17:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> or not?
17:19:49  <Yexo> perhaps opengfx vs original?
17:20:41  *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd
17:21:52  <Ammler> has ogfx it's own?
17:23:22  *** Intexon^ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd
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17:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if they didn't copy it from openttd.grf
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17:43:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22611 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/basque.txt:
17:43:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:43:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: basque - 10 changes by Thadah
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18:00:43  <andythenorth> evening
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18:20:21  <andythenorth> and all through the house
18:20:28  <andythenorth> no-one was stirring, not even a mouse
18:20:38  <andythenorth> quiet here
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18:20:59  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
18:22:04  <andythenorth> hello Alberth
18:22:11  <andythenorth> caused any arguments recently :P
18:22:15  <andythenorth> :D
18:22:18  <Alberth> hello andy
18:22:24  <andythenorth> hmm
18:22:32  <andythenorth> foobar has suggested removals from advanced settings
18:22:37  <andythenorth> let's see if he was right
18:24:43  <andythenorth> broadly
18:24:49  <andythenorth> he misses a few that should go
18:24:53  <andythenorth> and cuts a few that should stay
18:25:52  <Alberth> it seems others have taken all the necessary steps :p
18:26:51  <andythenorth> we should add a new advanced setting: show advanced settings
18:26:55  <andythenorth> :P
18:27:11  * andythenorth wonders how the .cfg works
18:27:17  <andythenorth> presumably name value pairs
18:29:59  <andythenorth> if it was "name value group" users could create their own advanced settings gui
18:30:08  <andythenorth> thereby avoiding a holy war
18:30:16  <andythenorth> or xml for the cfg
18:30:26  <andythenorth> xml for cfg has been suggested before
18:30:32  <andythenorth> it didn't seem to be a sick joe
18:30:36  <andythenorth> joe?  joke :P
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18:48:24  <Alberth> name value group?
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18:49:05  <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file  <-- a global description of the cfg format
18:49:45  <Alberth> as in, there is no single commonly agreed definition :)
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18:56:12  <Ammler> andythenorth: then rather yaml
18:58:04  * andythenorth googles yaml
18:58:27  <Ammler> andythenorth: just follow the ini wiki alternatives
18:58:49  <andythenorth> "omg, I can't believe it uses whitespace, this is freaking insane, how will that ever workup"
18:58:51  <andythenorth> etc etc :P
18:59:19  <Ammler> andythenorth: yeah, don't use google
18:59:48  <Ammler> I guess, python does that too, doesn't it?
19:00:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and plenty of people complain about that :p
19:00:43  <andythenorth> they're wrong :P
19:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> admittedly, it IS a hassle when your editor has certain tab/space rules that are not compliant with the suggested way
19:01:04  <andythenorth> and they're probably not people you'd want to spend time with
19:01:20  <Ammler> well, everything is better as xml
19:01:24  <Ammler> e.g. json
19:01:30  <andythenorth> I am no fan of xml
19:01:43  <andythenorth> having written flash parsers for it, and written the xml for them
19:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody is a fan of xml
19:01:46  <andythenorth> I think it is suck
19:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> at least nobody who ever came in physical contact with it
19:02:17  <andythenorth> basically for each item in openttd cfg, it would be desirable to specify:
19:02:19  <andythenorth> value
19:02:26  <andythenorth> location in advanced settings menu
19:02:28  <andythenorth> (if any)
19:02:55  <andythenorth> then we can provide a sane default set, and all the special case people can provide they're own (there will be few, but they will be very noisy)
19:03:04  <andythenorth> they're / their
19:03:36  <andythenorth> http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/  ??
19:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you intend to specify position (and especially order) in the advanced settings gui?
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19:04:39  <Ammler> on the other side, it doesn't really matter, what format the settings file has
19:04:40  <andythenorth> good point
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19:04:43  <Terkhen> while you are at it you could generalize the tree GUI code used by advanced settings :)
19:04:44  * Rubidium wonders which user is the first to say that the window to configure the advanced settings window is too complex
19:04:49  <Ammler> as you should make a gui for it too :-P
19:04:57  <andythenorth> drag and drop :P
19:04:58  <Rubidium> or specifically, that it lists way too many things
19:05:06  <andythenorth> lets say it now
19:05:17  <andythenorth> the window to configure the advanced settings window is too complex
19:06:51  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the order is significant?
19:07:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sometimes
19:07:36  <andythenorth> probably
19:07:38  <andythenorth> ach
19:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you want to introduce dozens of subgroups
19:07:49  <andythenorth> ok screw em
19:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> to keep logically similar settings together
19:07:57  <Alberth> Rubidium: isn't that the whole topic of the 'ottd getting too complex' thread?
19:07:57  <andythenorth> make them edit the cfg file to change settings
19:08:08  <andythenorth> lets just remove lots and see who complains
19:08:27  <andythenorth> we could split test binaries with different ones removed :P
19:09:06  <Alberth> nah, use the IP address or the time of the day to decide :p
19:10:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if we wanted to go by the number of complaints, we would make build-while-paused a cheat and allow changing newgrfs
19:10:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a very good metric :p
19:10:57  <Rubidium> Alberth: yes, that's why adding a window to configure that window isn't a solution at all
19:11:33  <Alberth> I must have skipped a few posts :p
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19:13:09  <Yexo> Alberth: that was never in a post, just here in the backlog
19:13:56  <Alberth> ok, thanks :)
19:14:18  <andythenorth> Rubidium: why not a window to configure the configure window?
19:14:23  <andythenorth> it makes total sense
19:14:29  <andythenorth> completely logical
19:15:00  <Terkhen> why is that needed?
19:15:20  <andythenorth> to reduce the complexity of the window that reduces the complexity of advanced settings :P
19:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> who wants to understand recursion must first understand recursion
19:15:30  <Terkhen> configuring the configure window would require checking all items
19:15:51  <Terkhen> then I'd ignore the configuring configure window option and just check all items once to enable/disable them
19:17:05  <andythenorth> no no
19:17:23  <andythenorth> it might be *really* important to you to be able to configure certain things
19:17:42  <andythenorth> and if it isn't enabled, you'll be 100% certain that ottd will never succeed in capturing a large audience
19:17:48  <andythenorth> especially among young people
19:18:05  <andythenorth> besides, all modern games offer this feature
19:20:12  * andythenorth beer
19:20:58  <MNIM> WHERE!?
19:22:03  <andythenorth> in my glass
19:23:06  <MNIM> hmmmmh
19:23:14  <MNIM> that's not right
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19:23:51  <Alberth> why not, he has given us breweries and and many other industries and vehicles
19:24:09  <supermop> i want some recursive beer
19:25:32  <Alberth> to get infinitely drunk :p
19:26:14  <MNIM> lol
19:26:29  <MNIM> he made the ecs industries?
19:26:30  <supermop> to get as drunk as I like to get drunk
19:26:33  <MNIM> or firs?
19:27:54  <Alberth> firs, heqs, and fish
19:28:08  <Alberth> and I am sure I missed one or two :p
19:29:12  <MNIM> lol
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20:13:02  <Dozz> How to disable trains broking on the tracks?
20:13:19  <Yexo> set breakdowns to none in the difficulty window
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20:15:11  <Dozz> thx
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20:40:45  <Dozz> How can I replace vehicles with no more lifetime?
20:42:19  <Alberth> autoreplace
20:42:42  <Dozz> They weren't replaced
20:42:43  <Dozz> :|
20:43:16  <Alberth> you have to switch it on
20:43:44  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace
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21:34:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't think MB is overly convinced...
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21:44:06  <Terkhen> good night
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