Config
Log for #openttd on 9th July 2011:
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00:00:07  <Zuu> Also, you don't drop off wood in a depot, but at a station.
00:00:45  <Hellaciouss> loading bay isn't the same?
00:00:57  <Zuu> a loading bay is a station
00:01:34  <Zuu> a depot is not a station, and you wrote "depo" which to me looks closer to "depot" than "loading bay"
00:01:52  <Hellaciouss> ok, im dropping wood off at a loading bay, but saw mill is not using it
00:02:10  <Zuu> Is the station close enough?
00:02:22  <Hellaciouss> it's touching
00:02:25  <Hellaciouss> the mill
00:02:39  <Zuu> In which window do you see that it "does not use it"?
00:03:06  <Hellaciouss> where it says it requires wood and production last month 0 crates of goods
00:03:57  <Zuu> Does the wood cargo pile up at the station?
00:04:02  <Hellaciouss> yes
00:04:12  <Hellaciouss> and slowly disappears
00:04:15  <Zuu> Do you use any NewGRFs?
00:04:28  <Zuu> Do you use orders that force unloading?
00:05:01  <caracal> does the factory require anything in addition to wood?
00:05:11  <caracal> like rubber, copper ore, etc?
00:05:20  <Zuu> Not if no NewGRFs are used.
00:05:22  <Hellaciouss> no, just says wood, i will take a screen shot
00:05:57  <Zuu> But if you use a NewGRF it can change it so that you need to fullfill any condition you might (and might not) imagne.
00:06:58  <Hellaciouss> http://i56.tinypic.com/15i6fbc.png
00:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause> do not use "transfer" orders
00:07:32  <Zuu> Don't use Transfer and leave empty orders.
00:08:08  <Zuu> The transfer orders are used when you want to transfer cargo from one vehicle to another.
00:08:43  <Zuu> The transfer order tells the vehicle to explicitly not to deliver the cargo to any industry, so that it can be picked up by another vehicle.
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00:11:13  <Hellaciouss> ah ok, giving them orders like that is what I was doing wrong
00:11:15  <Hellaciouss> thanks :)
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05:54:11  <andythenorth> bonjour
05:56:54  <andythenorth> this is a stupid river http://tt-foundry.com/misc/stupid_river.png
05:57:06  <andythenorth> ignore the pink dots
05:57:41  <andythenorth> building rivers that can flow perpendicular to slopes is silly
05:57:53  <andythenorth> maybe rivers should have directed flow
05:58:12  <andythenorth> bit mask identifying which corner the flow comes from?
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07:21:15  <Terkhen> good morning
07:21:35  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
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07:22:37  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
07:26:02  <Terkhen> what do you mean?
07:28:35  <andythenorth> being facetious :P
07:38:42  <andythenorth> Rubidium: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_11.png
07:38:45  <andythenorth> most shores done
07:38:52  <andythenorth> those marked with coloured dots are not valid imo
07:39:19  <andythenorth> there is also a clipping problem with some rapids that I need to look into
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07:42:09  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/325/ <-- any sed (or awk or whatever) wizard here who could hint me how to find a good replacement for that
07:42:26  <planetmaker> moin also :-)
07:44:49  <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_12.png
07:45:16  <andythenorth> hello planetmaker
07:46:13  <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth the "unneeded" corners in the NE of your setup: they only happen as you have a river tile at sea level there afaik
07:47:17  <andythenorth> yes
07:47:41  <andythenorth> rivers at sea level is a silly case
07:47:46  <andythenorth> I'm not drawing graphics for it
07:47:55  * andythenorth is grumpy about rivers - does it show?
07:47:57  <andythenorth> :P
07:52:17  <andythenorth> the 'river going along a hillside' case is more dumb
07:52:21  <andythenorth> :)
07:54:38  <planetmaker> rivers at sea levels IMHO need not a special graphics case but some code modification.
07:55:01  <planetmaker> All needed sprites are there, but the sprite logic fails in this case
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08:14:59  <Alberth> moin
08:15:05  <Wolf01> hello
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09:02:49  <planetmaker> moin Alberth
09:09:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: could you build water_features grf and give me your opinion on temperate sprites?
09:09:44  <andythenorth> if you're busy - nvm
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09:16:46  <planetmaker> he... andythenorth you should add a license.txt - install fails without ;-)
09:17:20  <planetmaker> hm... and changelog. Bad thing
09:17:28  <planetmaker> it shouldn't fail on it
09:17:42  <andythenorth> :o
09:17:45  <andythenorth> they're present
09:17:49  <andythenorth> maybe I didn't hg add them
09:18:28  <andythenorth> how odd
09:18:38  <andythenorth> they're hg tracked locally I think, but not in the repo
09:18:43  * andythenorth checks hgignore
09:19:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: fixed
09:19:40  <andythenorth> they were in the hgignore.  no idea why
09:19:48  <planetmaker> not by default
09:20:02  <andythenorth> I must have copied them in from somewhere
09:20:11  <planetmaker> they're in there twice even
09:20:20  <andythenorth> that means one of my other grfs doesn't have those files :o
09:21:26  <andythenorth> anyway - solved :)
09:27:36  <planetmaker> not all sprites are without funky colours, right?
09:28:28  <andythenorth> a bunch of sprites have coloured dots
09:28:40  <andythenorth> to indicate that they shouldn't exist in a sane world :P
09:29:17  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/newwater.png <-- like that, yes ;-)
09:29:28  <planetmaker> well... sane world - why not?
09:29:44  <planetmaker> could be a lake at sea level. They do exist
09:30:09  <andythenorth> well maybe those sea-level ones are valid
09:30:15  <andythenorth> although I think it's stupid and pointless
09:30:23  <andythenorth> and is a griefing opportunity
09:30:34  <andythenorth> (assuming ships that have different speeds for canal / sea)
09:30:44  <planetmaker> is there a reason to use other sprites at sea level than other heights?
09:30:58  <andythenorth> no idea :)
09:31:10  <andythenorth> rivers seem ill-thought out to me
09:32:08  <planetmaker> there's two aspects: graphics and game-incorporation / effect
09:32:18  <planetmaker> wrt graphics they're IMHO quite good
09:32:39  <andythenorth> they seem to fit the alternative water nicely :)
09:32:52  <andythenorth> and the opengfx temperate tiles
09:33:41  <planetmaker> indeed they do
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09:36:26  <andythenorth> my problems with rivers:
09:36:34  <andythenorth> - rivers can be built at sea
09:36:43  <andythenorth> - rivers can be built perpendicular to hillsides
09:36:59  <andythenorth> - player can demolish a river tile in game, leaving two halves of unconnected river
09:37:30  <andythenorth> - rivers with right angles don't look good, half-tiles are needed for – and |
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09:44:40  <planetmaker> perpendicular to hill sides is not wrong
09:44:49  <Alberth> we'll have to make a flood disaster :)
09:44:50  <planetmaker> a tile is 600km after all ;-)
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09:46:23  <Alberth> 600km?  Holland would be just one tile :D
09:47:34  <planetmaker> :-)
09:47:48  <andythenorth> how is it not wrong? :)
09:47:57  <planetmaker> how is it wrong, andythenorth ?
09:47:58  <andythenorth> sticky water?
09:49:13  <andythenorth> lets do an experiment
09:49:19  <andythenorth> take a bowl from the kitchen
09:49:21  <andythenorth> fill with water
09:49:38  <andythenorth> now tilt bowl to 30' angle - for added excitement, do this above your laptop
09:49:53  <andythenorth> report results here...
09:50:10  <__ln__> "Voor het vervoer gelden de vervoervoorwaarden."
09:50:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but landscape is not a bowel
09:50:39  <planetmaker> -e
09:50:49  <andythenorth> hmm
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09:52:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm not going to argue from reality too much :)
09:52:41  <andythenorth> I just find lakes on 30' slopes odd
09:52:59  <andythenorth> we have 'realistic' physics for some things, but 100% magic water
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09:53:43  <andythenorth> if others like the feature....fine
09:53:45  <planetmaker> odd: http://www.bundesregierung.de/Content/DE/Archiv16/Artikel/2008/12/Bilder/hightechserie-energie-pumpspeicher-kraftwerk-goldisthal,layoutVariant=Poster.html ?
09:54:21  <andythenorth> the slope on the surface of that lake will be quite small
09:55:07  <andythenorth> these are what I find odd: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_11.png
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09:56:21  <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's not a problem with the sprites but of the game engine. But currently it can only come into play by explicit player demand
09:56:27  <andythenorth> why don't those lakes run into the sea?
09:56:28  <planetmaker> So there's no issue either
09:59:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes it's an issue of the game engine ;)
09:59:43  <andythenorth> my critique was aimed in that direction
09:59:52  <planetmaker> yes. But good existing sprites can be motivation ;-)
10:00:11  <andythenorth> I'm not inclined to finish drawing sprites that I don't think should ever be seen :)
10:00:16  <andythenorth> I can remove the dots
10:00:25  <andythenorth> unless...
10:00:40  <andythenorth> we assume all such slopes being / end in a spring or sinkhole
10:00:53  <andythenorth> so I draw 'water disappearing underground' sprites
10:03:23  <Alberth> nice solution!
10:03:40  <andythenorth> sink hole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlapahaRiver2002.jpg
10:03:53  <andythenorth> but also your ships would travel through the sink hole?
10:03:57  <andythenorth> :P
10:06:10  <Alberth> they stay afloat, turning in circles above the hole forever  :p
10:07:54  <andythenorth> is that feature in trunk? :P
10:08:03  <andythenorth> kraken disaster
10:08:47  <planetmaker> Those sprites would also be seen ;-)
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13:38:41  <andythenorth> Alberth: this is why groups is hard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_components#Attributes :)
13:39:30  <andythenorth> and this is why consists are hard: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/salaakso/patterns/Master-and-Instances.html
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13:43:04  <Alberth> I'd settle for just a step in the right direction already :)
13:45:04  <andythenorth> it's a Hard Problem
13:45:26  <andythenorth> groups or consists alone would be solvable
13:45:33  <andythenorth> but trying to do them both well together....Hard
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13:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> do consists, and treat groups like database queries
13:58:58  <Alberth> imho 'do consists' starts with creating a Consist struct in the program first, which is quite non-trivial :(
14:03:54  <Alberth> my attempts broke on vehicle shuffling during replace/refit/clone/etc
14:05:07  <Alberth> If I want to do it, I'll probably have to take the Vehicle pool down, which means killing a large part of the program :p
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14:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably needs three categories: "consists" (virtual arrangements of vehicles), "instances" (actual copies or clones of a consist) and "vehicles" (single parts of a consist or instance)
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14:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause> things like cached speed limits etc that are currently only valid for front engines would become part of the instance
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14:20:49  <Alberth> in your terms, I was making an Instance class, without bothering about consists, just to move such data like cached speed limits to Instance
14:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that doesn't go far enough
14:21:44  <Alberth> I know, but it is a first step, and that already failed
14:23:31  <Alberth> although you may not need consists, you could also make a 'real' copy and not use it anywhere
14:23:53  <Alberth> but that kind of stuff was already too far for me :)
14:24:28  <Alberth> ha, openttd compiles again :p
14:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me i needed to update nml
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15:51:37  <bobgeldof> abc
15:51:39  <bobgeldof> def
15:51:47  <bobgeldof> g
15:51:50  <bobgeldof> hi
15:51:51  <bobgeldof> jk
15:51:53  <bobgeldof> lmno
15:51:54  <bobgeldof> [
15:51:55  <bobgeldof> p
15:51:56  <bobgeldof> qu
15:51:59  <bobgeldof> r
15:51:59  <bobgeldof> s
15:52:00  <bobgeldof> t
15:52:01  <bobgeldof> u
15:52:01  <bobgeldof> v
15:52:02  <bobgeldof> w
15:52:04  <bobgeldof> xyz
15:52:42  <bobgeldof> now i know my abcs
15:52:48  <bobgeldof> next time won't you sing with me?
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16:04:13  <murr4y> '[' wasn't a part of the alphabet last time i checked
16:04:15  <murr4y> DAMMIT
16:04:23  <murr4y> same second :V
16:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> your smilies are from the picasso-edition of the internet guide?
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17:34:35  <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-v.gif
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18:08:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22644 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Codechange: Use IsShipDepotTile() instead of single water- and depottests. (adf88)
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18:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: how is that helping? ;)
18:28:10  <ccfreak2k> That's what :v is.
18:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
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21:14:58  <MNIM> Eeeek, a UFO destroyed my beautiful intersection
21:16:27  <Terkhen> they travelled many light years just for that, let them have their fun
21:16:44  <MNIM> lol
21:21:04  <Terkhen> it's a good solution to Fermi's paradox too: aliens are too busy destroying computer game trains
21:23:33  <MNIM> fermi's paradox?
21:23:37  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:24:19  <Terkhen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
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21:29:36  <__ln__> is Frankfurt an der Oder a nice place?
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21:30:13  <frosch123> you might be able to see some newer gikes
21:30:15  <frosch123> *dikes
21:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it was kind of a neglected place when i was there ~12 years ago
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21:32:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is probably common with lots of minor east german cities
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21:34:20  <__ln__> so if i want to see a not-so-big east german city, that should be ok
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21:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
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