Config
Log for #openttd on 14th July 2011:
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06:03:56  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:43:31  <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14130854
08:46:12  <peter1138> ah, bbc impartially promoting some entrepreneur
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10:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the trackdirs are somehow wrongly ordered
10:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> TRACKDIR_X_NE and TRACKDIR_X_SW should be swapped
11:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> someone tell andythenorth i updated the diff at www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_and_adjacent_crossings_r22664.diff
11:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but i still have some issue where it doesn't reserve tracks properly
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11:19:34  <peter1138> hm
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11:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i always forget the -j12
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11:56:15  <dihedral> hoot hoot
11:56:23  <dihedral> ding ding ding ding ding
11:58:54  <MNIM> beep beep beep
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12:00:43  <nextinline> i got a strange bug
12:01:21  <nextinline> for some reason, the volume's really low even when the computer's at 100
12:01:43  <V453000> and openttd volume? ..
12:01:53  <nextinline> where do i find that
12:02:07  <V453000> in the music menu in game
12:02:43  <nextinline> for some reason its at minimum thanks
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12:41:47  <__ln__> http://narf-archive.com/pix/96f6bee30bd7fc28158450e89f5dc5b7f008c4a0.jpg  (sfw)
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12:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's skew (if that's the right word)
13:04:24  <LordAro> afternoon all
13:07:32  <Belugas> hello
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13:18:17  <peter1138> http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/humans_get_your_ass_to_mars.png
13:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it's fairly useless to get humans on mars, i think we should rather get plants to mars, and let an ecosystem developed
13:23:03  <__ln__> do plants survive without animals?
13:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> depends
13:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> ones that grow blooms probably not.
13:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> but to start up an ecology, you probably need more primitive ones
13:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the obvious first problem is the cold temperatures
13:28:25  <planetmaker> there are enough plants whose pollen carry by wind alone
13:28:34  <__ln__> and the lack of water
13:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> water might not be an immediate problem, so long as you have significant storages of oxygen and carbon atoms somewhere on the planet
13:30:46  <dihedral> cactus
13:31:06  <dihedral> well send a bottle of water every x years
13:31:30  <planetmaker> oxygen is there (that's why it's the red planet). Carbon... from the atmosphere. It's 95% CO2
13:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
13:31:59  <planetmaker> water... you have about a few µm of precipitation on Mars annually
13:32:30  <MNIM> You'll need bacteria and algae before big plants.
13:32:32  <planetmaker> compared to roughly a meter on Earth
13:32:54  <planetmaker> algae. lichen. They'll do for a starter indeed.
13:32:59  <MNIM> mostly because they're far more resilient, existing on both of our earth polar regions.
13:33:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the point is to get some sort of life cycle started, to build upon
13:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "life" in the sense of "processing chemicals"
13:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause> with a few pointers from mankind to make a process that takes 5 billion years to complete in a few hundred
13:35:44  <Eddi|zuHause> bonus points for getting a breathable atmosphere
13:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but that might not be necessary
13:38:10  <planetmaker> yohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy :-)
13:38:17  <planetmaker> uhm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy
13:39:09  <planetmaker> recommended reading on that topic ;-)
13:40:36  <__ln__> if e.g. the chinese chose to start terraforming mars, would other countries object?
13:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> countries will always object to anything...
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13:49:23  <__ln__> i would like the extra 39 minutes in a day that they have
13:49:37  <__ln__> the martians, not the chinese
13:54:08  <dihedral> just please leave japanese people here as they are damaging the earth anyway ... (more so than others at least :P)
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13:54:57  <planetmaker> that's not even true, if you go by media coverage.
13:56:18  <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not, mistakes and disasters bring further development than what would have happened otherwise
13:57:18  <Chris_Booth> if anything we should leave the canadians behind as they produce more CO2 and greenhouse gasses per person than any other nation in the world
13:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause> actually inhabitants of the gulf states have the highest ecological footprint on the planet
13:58:43  <Chris_Booth> are you sure about that Eddi|zuHause?
13:58:56  <TWerkhoven> isnt petrol less than 50p a litre there?
14:02:40  <Chris_Booth> http://www.breathingearth.net/
14:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: ecological footprint in "global hectar (hag)" per inhabitant: http://www.arte.tv/i18n/Import/MOK/articles/21116/imagesmap/im__2111607/3687608,property=imageData,maxWidth=634,scale=unproportional,templateId=scaled,v=1,CmPart=com.arte-tv.www.jpg
14:03:03  <Chris_Booth> A cool animated website showing CO2 and birth rates
14:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> CO2 makes around 50% of the ecological footprint
14:04:30  <Chris_Booth> yes I missed them on my cool map I was looking at as ther are so small
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14:29:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i am lacking an inspiration on what to do right now...
14:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause> not getting anywhere with the level crossing reservation problem
14:31:01  <dihedral> find me a nice holiday for around oct/nov ? :-P
14:31:04  <dihedral> 14 days please
14:31:22  <dihedral> (and affordable) :-P
14:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> strange time for a holiday ;)
14:34:59  <dihedral> well - no chance in getting 14 days off any earlier
14:35:13  <Belugas> dihedral: come here :)  I offer the bed, you offer the arms for basement painting and all ;)
14:35:22  <Alberth> dihedral: just quit your job :)
14:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: he already does that every half year :p
14:35:52  <dihedral> Belugas, that is honestly tempting
14:36:50  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, wrong :-P
14:36:56  <dihedral> has not happend in the last 6 months :-D
14:37:11  <dihedral> and i probably will not with this job either
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14:50:36  <andythenorth> why is alluke such an idiot?
14:51:34  <andythenorth> one of many unanswered questions in life :P
14:51:40  <andythenorth> the universe must know this stuff
14:51:59  <andythenorth> is there more information than there is universe?
14:52:35  <Belugas> dihedral, I'll allow you to get out of the basement at least once a day :)  I'll drive you around on sundays as well
14:52:37  <Belugas> hehehe
14:52:59  <Belugas> alluke? on forums?
14:53:11  <andythenorth> yarp
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14:56:03  <dihedral> "yarp" lol
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14:57:18  <peter1138> hurr, my du --max-depth 1 hasn't finished :S
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15:12:19  <dihedral> lol
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15:14:59  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44703&p=957110#p957110 <-- andythenorth ;-)
15:15:14  <andythenorth> he
15:15:26  <andythenorth> that's kind of what I wanted to say, except I would have been ruder
15:15:44  <andythenorth> I have history with that fine community member
15:16:16  <andythenorth> he accused me of discrimination - his claim was that FISH would support FIRS better than other sets iirc :P
15:16:20  <andythenorth> silly boy
15:16:47  <andythenorth> discrimination is (a) an exercise of taste in one meaning (b) a dangerous word to throw around loosely in its other meaning
15:17:05  * andythenorth back to work
15:17:32  <planetmaker> lool. Did he really hold that against you?
15:17:44  <planetmaker> oh my. Lost cause then
15:17:50  <andythenorth> he
15:18:52  <supermop> good morning
15:19:00  <andythenorth> hello super
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15:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i smell a spammer in the graphics forum
15:53:15  <supermop> spamming graphics?
15:53:33  <Chris_Booth> spam fritters?
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16:33:45  <LordAro> hi all
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16:38:41  <LordAro> Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1310570649#1310570649 <-- i can't be bothered to repeat myself, and get even more confused.. :L
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17:02:59  <__ln__> http://www.spotify.com/us/blog/archives/2011/07/14/hello-america-spotify-here/
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17:36:46  <Alberth> LordAro: my version of GrfHasReadme() does not use data members of the class (that is, it does not use "this->"). It can thus be a static function, or a function outside the class, whatever you prefer.
17:37:39  <Alberth> as for making a flag in the newgrf structure, it is an interesting idea, but are you going to support multiple languages?
17:38:04  <LordAro> not yet :]
17:38:43  <LordAro> so i just do (e.g.) static bool GrfHasReadme(... ?
17:38:57  <Alberth> if you do, you're going to need a flag for every language, making it a non-optimal solution, imho
17:39:11  <Alberth> static should work
17:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it could be a flag for "has at least english readme", and then dynamically check if translations are available when displaying the readme
17:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> or a very wide bitmask.
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17:41:25  <Alberth> just put the function somewhere. I don't know what the code will finally look like, and moving is pretty easy.
17:42:15  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22665 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt romanian.txt):
17:42:15  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:42:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
17:42:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 5 changes by kkmic
17:42:17  * frosch123 ->DoSports()
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17:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause> raise(ESportIstMord)
17:44:02  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it may be useful for enabling/disabling the 'read the readme' button perhaps.
17:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, for enabling that button, only knowledge of an english/fallback readme is relevant
17:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so you do not need a flag for each language
17:45:17  <Alberth> LordAro will keep it in mind :)
17:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> upon clicking the button, it will search for a readme in the appropriate language, or show the fallback
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17:46:02  <Alberth> why do people join and leave so fast?
17:46:20  <LordAro> will i? (keep it in mind? :)
17:47:23  <Alberth> of course!  :D
17:47:48  <Alberth> I made a note too, in case you misplaced that information :)
17:47:53  <Alberth> Thanks Eddi
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17:54:13  <Wolf01> hello
17:55:08  <__ln__> , said Wolf01
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18:12:01  * LordAro shoves the function in newgrf_config.cpp (for the record)
18:14:50  <Alberth> as long as it stays in your patch, it does not matter :)
18:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> how evil would it be to break all grfs which do ActionA replacement of level crossings?
18:18:22  <LordAro> gah, computer's too slow to compile and watch youtube at the same time >< :)
18:18:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. simply ignore that sprite)
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18:19:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you mean the stupid pre-composited crossing sprite by any chance?
18:19:29  <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause: would be funy IMO
18:19:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, that one. only allow the overlay-variant
18:19:55  <andythenorth> I proposed that earlier in the year :)
18:20:04  <andythenorth> when I dug into the crossing code, I thought it was a bit stupid
18:20:13  <andythenorth> I have n patches with different variations somewhere
18:20:36  <andythenorth> the cases for monorail and maglev suck I'm afraid
18:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, i updated the patch at the previous location, road vehicles should behave correctly now in both directions
18:21:06  <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/crossings-ng-rails.png
18:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the default rails need additional overlay sprites
18:21:26  <andythenorth> let me get my head back into everything I learnt about this
18:21:32  <andythenorth> I spent about a day on it in the end
18:22:28  <andythenorth> there's an issue that the pbs overlay sprite is also stupid, as it includes sleepers but not ballast
18:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have some case where it doesn't reserve paths correctly
18:22:43  <andythenorth> the pbs overlay should just include rails, but there's some reason it can't
18:22:52  <andythenorth> there's a different edge case somewhere iirc
18:23:00  <andythenorth> I was proven wrong at the time :P
18:23:35  <andythenorth> I remember my goal
18:23:51  <andythenorth> it was to prevent tram crossings showing tarmac where there's no tarmac road bit on the tile
18:23:54  <Alberth> get rich and famous ?
18:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> nah, you'll only have trouble with that
18:24:32  <andythenorth> I got this close: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/road-rail-crossing-10.png
18:25:09  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: anyway....do you need new sprites for diagonals?
18:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the diagonal sprites are ready
18:25:31  <andythenorth> oh how shiny
18:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> they are taken from Maedhros' old patch
18:25:42  <andythenorth> I didn't want to draw them...but I would if no-one else had :P
18:26:01  <LordAro> ahh! scary squirrel related error messages! http://pastebin.com/VAiCGTEY
18:26:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you need to eliminate that composite tile for your patch? As there is no diagonal
18:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the diagonal overlay sprites are here, if you want to take a look: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diag_cross.png
18:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> all standard rails and their toyland counterpart
18:27:46  <andythenorth> so they're overlays
18:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> plus the lights
18:27:49  <andythenorth> not composited with road
18:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:28:00  <andythenorth> I wondered about two consecutive patches
18:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i thought better remove the composite variant completely
18:28:07  <andythenorth> one eliminating that tile entirely...
18:28:14  <andythenorth> and the diagonal patch
18:28:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yep
18:28:34  <Chris_Booth> ooh diagonal rail crossing shiny
18:28:36  <andythenorth> you have code for eliminating the composite tile?
18:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:29:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i also have no overlay graphics for the straight rails
18:29:18  <andythenorth> let me see if I kept my patch :P
18:29:28  <andythenorth> it would be commit #3 for me
18:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause> always keep your patches :p
18:30:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52122&hilit=crossing
18:31:08  <LordAro> help me someone :) i haven't touched the squirrel files...
18:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that's the kind of error you get from forgetting a ; in a header file
18:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> or other syntax errors
18:35:50  <LordAro> i've looked... can someone check my patch file(s merged into one) : http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq
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18:41:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line"
18:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: compiles fine here, until newgrf_config.cpp
18:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: try a make clean?
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19:09:52  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: done that :/
19:10:17  <LordAro> the errors i posted happen in ai_instance.cpp
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19:16:28  <fjb> cr instead of crlf or the other way round at the end of a line?
19:17:21  <Rubidium> ai_instance.cpp includes a hell of a lot of files, so a missing } or something can yield a gigantic amount of errors that seem totally unrelated
19:17:35  <Rubidium> the problem almost certainly is in one of the headers you changed
19:18:17  * LordAro checks again...
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19:23:21  <Rubidium> can you show the diff?
19:25:22  <LordAro> http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq
19:27:01  <Rubidium> 1) why the fileio_func.h inclusion in newgrf_config.h?
19:28:01  <Rubidium> 2) constants are, IMO, more types that functions so it should be in fileio_type.h (is it actually used?)
19:28:55  <Rubidium> 3) for what its worth, it compiles ai_instance.cpp fine for me
19:29:02  <Rubidium> maybe it's the wrong diff?
19:29:41  <LordAro> 1) for the GrfHasReadme function
19:30:07  <LordAro> 2) maybe, its not used (yet) so it shouldn't be too much bother :)
19:30:09  <Rubidium> but only the implementation needs it, so the .cpp that implements it needs to include it
19:30:40  <LordAro> 3) okay... thats odd :)
19:30:45  <Rubidium> not some header, because in that case basically all headers need to include all other headers which makes compiling really really slow
19:31:15  <LordAro> ok, i'll check that
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19:50:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you want me to test your latest patch?
19:50:58  <andythenorth> where is it?
19:51:40  <supermop> new patch?
19:52:15  <andythenorth> crossings
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20:03:05  <supermop> cooool
20:04:11  <supermop> i tried making a spreadsheet of the different roadtype elements and superpositions i would like yesterday
20:04:29  <supermop> but got a little hung up on a philosophical/conceptual issue
20:05:08  <andythenorth> ?
20:05:51  <supermop> well if there are 3 possible bits
20:06:22  <supermop> i'm guessing you could have a matrix with 3 axes
20:06:46  <supermop> but what to put on each axis was the problem
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20:07:22  <supermop> at first i decided to have the first axis be for the pavement type
20:07:41  <supermop> and the second for area (rural/urban etc)
20:07:51  <supermop> then the 3rd for power
20:08:05  <Hellaciouss> hmmm i dunno what grf is in this game but monorail systems attached to raw materials seem to make the producer of the raw material skyrocket in produced products per month
20:08:16  <supermop> ie, none, cable vault, trolley wire
20:08:18  <Hellaciouss> this coal mine has 1,400 coal a month production
20:08:47  <Hellaciouss> and everything else being used in conjuction with monorail has fairly high output
20:08:57  <Hellaciouss> anything with maglev or electric is normal
20:09:55  <Rubidium> a high station ration significantly increases the chance of production increases, regardless the behaviour is 'random'
20:10:29  <Rubidium> so even with perfect ratings an industry can close, or with the baddest rating it can get to maximum production
20:11:21  <Rubidium> although maglev should do better than monorail in creating high ratings
20:11:34  <Rubidium> but... new vehicles temporarily create a higher rating as well
20:11:58  <Rubidium> so the results might be skewed for some reason
20:12:23  <Rubidium> also lots of waiting cargo reduces the ratings significantly
20:12:39  <Hellaciouss> well nothing without monrail has an abnormal production rating
20:12:53  <Hellaciouss> everything monorail has pretty high production rating
20:13:17  <Hellaciouss> guess it's just a coincidence
20:14:55  <Rubidium> in any case, the industry code has no clue what kind of station receives the cargo. So it can't be coupled to the type of station (or railtype)
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20:17:33  <Hellaciouss> just sayin, it's od that every single monorail connected facility has 3-4 times the production rate then any maglev or electic
20:17:46  <Hellaciouss> guess the stars just aligned
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20:51:31  <andythenorth> docks might cost more in property maintenance than rail stations? :o
20:51:51  <andythenorth> 14 rail stations is about £8 / year
20:52:06  <andythenorth> *10^3
20:52:22  <andythenorth> 14 docks seems to be about £16k
20:52:43  <andythenorth> are both tiles of a dock counted?
20:52:55  <andythenorth> I might be remembering wrong though
20:53:44  <planetmaker> bah... Nekomaster is soooo thick
20:55:07  <planetmaker> anyway... good night all :-)
20:55:41  <andythenorth> :)
21:03:20  * andythenorth is rather glad that pikka has no shame about infringing copyright
21:03:24  <andythenorth> it makes TAI rather good
21:03:33  <andythenorth> although of no use if we need to maintain his set :P
21:03:34  <supermop> never used it
21:04:09  <Terkhen> good night
21:04:46  <andythenorth> good night
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22:09:08  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:13:18  <Nowaker> hi. anyone can tell me how to generate a map from heightmap on dedicated server?
23:13:46  <Nowaker> what the commands are. I couldn't find it in ottd wiki
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23:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Nowaker: best if you generate the map on single player, and upload the scenario/savegame then onto the server
23:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if there actually are commands
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23:47:59  <Nowaker> Eddi|zuHause: I see. thanks

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