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00:40:58 *** welterde [welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 00:46:15 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-056-120.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:13:16 <supermop_> any dutch people around? 01:13:37 <Markk> Hoi 01:14:55 <supermop_> does that mean yes? 01:15:08 <supermop_> I dont know much dutch 01:15:18 <Markk> No, I'm swedish. :D 01:15:23 <Markk> Just fooling around. 01:15:41 <Markk> I learned some dutch words from a guy I shared a flat with before. 01:16:06 <pjpe> just say join a lot 01:16:07 <pjpe> moin 01:16:09 <pjpe> moin a lot 01:16:13 <Markk> :D 01:16:28 <Markk> I say Goedemoergen alot (on the morning that is). 01:16:48 <Markk> Especially because it's pretty close to the swedish words for it: God morgon. 01:17:19 <supermop_> heh 01:17:35 <supermop_> they just started selling aged bols in the us 01:32:04 <supermop_> ... i guess that is sort of a dutch thing 01:49:11 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 01:49:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:51:05 *** Pulec|XNB [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 02:22:11 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 02:27:00 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-241-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:25 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:44:33 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:55:14 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:17:44 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 03:17:59 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 03:18:41 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:18:49 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:39:30 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3db2:ef47:3367:324c] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:48:39 *** goldspirit [~goldspiri@modemcable184.179-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 03:48:46 <goldspirit> hi anyone 03:48:49 <goldspirit> i need some information 03:49:02 <goldspirit> so if you can chat me it will be very apreciate 03:49:29 <pjpe> yes 03:52:08 <goldspirit> i want to know how to make a multiplayer game for me and my uncle 03:52:29 <goldspirit> when i try to make the server it's say server offline 03:52:32 <pjpe> no 03:52:48 <goldspirit> we can't? 03:53:52 <pjpe> wat 04:01:03 <goldspirit> can i make a multiplayer game 04:01:12 <goldspirit> for me and my oncle and friend 04:01:24 <goldspirit> cuz when i try it.s making an ofline server 04:01:35 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:02:15 <goldspirit> can you help me? 04:03:03 <DDR> Odds are against it, but what's up? 04:03:28 <goldspirit> Odds? 04:04:20 <goldspirit> against multiplayer online with friend? 04:05:04 <DDR> I'd rate it as maybe 40/60 odds, against your favor, that I can help you. 04:05:27 <goldspirit> but what's the problem :O? 04:05:40 <DDR> Precisely. 04:05:59 <goldspirit> .... 04:06:03 <goldspirit> what?! 04:06:50 <DDR> I'll give it maybe 80% chance you actually tell me the problem, and then maybe half-and-half that I know the answer. 04:07:05 <goldspirit> AH LOL!!! sorry 04:07:06 <goldspirit> !!!! 04:07:06 <DDR> But, that's just an uneducated guess. I just got here! 04:07:12 <goldspirit> ok 04:07:22 <goldspirit> i want to make 04:07:35 <goldspirit> an online multiplayer game for my uncle and my friend 04:07:41 <goldspirit> but everytime i try it make 04:07:48 <goldspirit> an offline server 04:08:39 <DDR> Hm, I've had problems with that myself. Never figured out the answer, the other guy I was playing with could make. :/ 04:08:40 <DDR> Sorry. 04:09:00 <goldspirit> no problem if you finaly have an answer 04:09:10 <DDR> But, what happens every time? Perhaps someone else knows. 04:09:33 <goldspirit> i try to make the game and it'sa offline 04:10:06 <DDR> Ah. Tried making a private online server? 04:10:15 <goldspirit> maybe xD 04:10:18 <DDR> That might work around the problem, but you need internet access. :/ 04:10:39 <goldspirit> lol if im chatting here i have it :) 04:11:29 <DDR> Well, I have a friend who has three offline computers which we like to hook into a simple LAN to game. Those computers don't have access to the internet, but my laptop right beside it can hook into his wireless. 04:12:07 <goldspirit> wth? that strange 04:12:32 *** Theos_ [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:12:38 <DDR> Yep. 04:14:33 <goldspirit> maybe it's in the 04:14:44 <goldspirit> information in the game 04:15:12 <goldspirit> that we can change with 04:15:40 <goldspirit> worldpad 04:16:18 <DDR> Good luck. 04:21:12 <goldspirit> did you add some 04:21:52 <goldspirit> newgrf? 04:26:36 <pjpe> why does doing ./configure --enable-profiling && make run-prof only show me function calls related to os x drawing the game 04:28:32 <pjpe> that don't seem right 04:41:29 *** ar3k [~ident@ebo153.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 04:42:10 *** goldspirit [~goldspiri@modemcable184.179-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:48:53 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecw183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72E6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:01:09 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:08:21 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 05:21:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A25F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:27:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C283.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:09:41 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:39:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:44:08 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:37 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE451.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:54:11 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@89.204.137.100] has joined #openttd 07:56:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:56:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:57:44 <planetmaker> moin 08:00:51 <pjpe> hey there kiddo 08:03:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:03:41 <pjpe> huh someone made a patch for 10.7 full screen support 08:05:40 <Alberth> moin andy 08:10:08 <andythenorth> 10.7 is nonsense 08:10:13 * andythenorth ponders manual-dist 08:10:24 <andythenorth> uses the yacd cargo routing 08:10:32 <pjpe> ? 08:11:22 <andythenorth> but instead of yacd calculating destinations, player would go to (e.g. coal mine) and use a routing menu select a valid destination for coal 08:11:30 <andythenorth> with % allocations between n destinations 08:11:51 <planetmaker> you can do that without fancy menu... 08:12:42 <andythenorth> how? 08:13:54 <planetmaker> just distribute it to different sources and don't use yacd 08:13:58 <andythenorth> meh 08:14:03 <andythenorth> that's what gave me the idea 08:14:06 <planetmaker> that's 95% of what you asked... 08:14:19 <andythenorth> I am playing a non-yacd game 08:14:29 <andythenorth> I miss the smart cargo routing 08:14:39 <andythenorth> I don't miss some of the weirder side effects of routing primary cargo 08:17:08 <pjpe> am i wrong or is "./configure --enable-profiling && make run-prof" supposed to give me more than os x specific functions involving NSWindows and NSApplications and such 08:17:34 <andythenorth> also...if the routes could (optionally) be specified in SE, but not edited in game, that would be interesting for scenarios 08:17:57 <planetmaker> NS* is osx-specific 08:18:22 <pjpe> yeah i know 08:18:35 <pjpe> i figured the profiling would show me game code functions 08:18:39 <pjpe> not os-layer 08:18:40 <__ln__> not necessarily, those could be available also in GNUStep 08:20:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you upgrade to lion? 08:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the difference is automatic transfer (even in two directions) 08:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think most of that can be done using the "cargodist" type of routing 08:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i.e. the available destinations are chosen from the ones actually connected 08:28:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I didn't yet 08:29:27 <planetmaker> after cloning of my hdd seemed to fail on some circular symlinks, I was too pissed at that and too lazy to install everything anew on the new hdd 08:31:12 <andythenorth> I only just got snow leopard 08:31:20 <andythenorth> I won't upgrade to lion soon - if ever 08:31:21 <pjpe> jeez 08:31:24 <pjpe> behind the times guy 08:31:51 <andythenorth> at some point in the next few years I probably have to find a new OS :| 08:32:05 <pjpe> why 08:32:29 <andythenorth> it's almost impossible to believe Apple won't make an almighty mis-step 08:32:48 *** fjb|mobile_ [~fjb@p5794197E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:33:06 <pjpe> what makes you think that 08:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> apple will likely disappear into the marginal company it came from as soon as they miss out on one innovation step 08:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just look at nokia... 08:34:03 <andythenorth> not just one 08:34:11 <andythenorth> they'll miss a bunch in a row 08:34:35 <pjpe> nokia is a marginal company? 08:34:42 <__ln__> quickly becoming one 08:34:50 <pjpe> their revenue last year was 42 billion 08:34:52 <pjpe> euros 08:34:58 <__ln__> last year was last year 08:35:19 <__ln__> nonetheless, they are becoming an OEM manufacturer 08:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> missing out on the whole smartphone thing, not getting any of their products launched, then practically bought out by microsoft 08:35:50 <pjpe> first quarter this year it held 30 percent of the market share of cellular devices 08:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> market share dwindling drastically during that time 08:37:02 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@89.204.137.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:13 <__ln__> nokia is in that position because of religious reasons. (and the religion is symbian.) 08:38:04 <andythenorth> when I got OS X beta there were lots of older guys on forums saying "system 7 was quite good enough for me. I certainly don't want any of this unix nonsense" 08:38:09 <andythenorth> I have become that guy :P 08:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: what about meego? 08:39:52 <planetmaker> anyway, two tasks less in our bug tracker - and that without work 08:40:55 <andythenorth> why change an OS :P 08:41:03 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: it's been said most nokians were interested in meego only in the sense "how much will it cut down sales of symbian?" 08:41:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth: two reasons only: security and application support 08:41:26 <andythenorth> used to also be performance 08:41:26 <planetmaker> both don't call yet for lion 08:41:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:41:35 <andythenorth> lion == much less application support 08:41:54 <andythenorth> performance won't get much better until I can afford an SSD 08:42:10 <andythenorth> stability is a solved problem 08:42:17 <Wolf01> hello 08:42:24 <andythenorth> and new GUI stuff I can't be bothered to learn any more 08:43:11 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 08:45:56 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.124] has joined #openttd 08:46:06 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 08:47:12 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:48:07 <planetmaker> hardware support is actually a third criterion for OS upgrades 08:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem is the lack of backwards compatibility 08:50:23 <planetmaker> often yes 08:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (ranging from something just not working anymore because it was badly programmed in the first place, to deliberately deprecating fairly new APIs, meaning a rewrite for most apps older than 2 years) 08:55:19 <andythenorth> bbl 08:55:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:05:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D433.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:27 *** pjpe [ae5f3a02@64.62.228.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:12:44 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 09:35:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 09:42:00 *** fjb|mobile_ [~fjb@p5794197E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:12 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5794197E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:17 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5794197E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff56c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:03:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:14:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:15:36 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:05:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D433.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:48 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:18:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:02:09 <andythenorth> @seen Yexo 12:02:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 27 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Yexo> or gui from openttd pasted over graphics from some other game 12:03:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:08:40 *** ProgVal [ProgVal@mrtiserv.openihs.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:48 *** ProgVal [ProgVal@mrtiserv.openihs.org] has joined #openttd 12:34:26 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:653e:48c3:a9e5:7713] has joined #openttd 12:34:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:53:14 <Hirundo> What happens (or rather, should happen) if a railtype grf does not define all the 'required' entries in the action3, but does define some others? 12:54:10 <Hirundo> For example, a grf that defines only depot or catenary gfx, but no overlays/underlays 12:58:04 <frosch123> what currently happens: it draws nonsense 12:58:16 <frosch123> like mousecursors and character glyphs 12:59:25 <frosch123> what should happen? either draw the questionmark, or revert to default graphics 12:59:37 <frosch123> no idea how much work are either of those 13:02:58 *** Theos [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:33 <planetmaker> default graphics might be the nicer fallback and allow for more flexible customization 13:07:42 <Hirundo> Basically you need to supply all the stuff with rails on them in one go 13:08:04 <Hirundo> Having different overlays and underlays just makes no sense 13:08:15 <Hirundo> But supplying catenary and nothing else might, though 13:10:31 <Hirundo> IMO it should be 'all or nothing' for the required stuff (at least NML could enforce that), but all the others are optional and could be defined individually 13:16:12 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:16:19 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:51:02 * andythenorth is bored of station ratings 13:51:09 <andythenorth> maybe a grf to keep them at 100% :P 13:51:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:04:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31:15 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:05 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:12 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:57:42 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:13:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:29:45 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:42:54 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.124] has joined #openttd 15:52:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-025-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D433.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:52 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:46:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:46:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:48:51 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 16:56:03 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:08:53 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:44 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 17:15:47 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21:24 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:44 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:35:20 <Yexo> <Hirundo> [15:10:31] IMO it should be 'all or nothing' for the required stuff (at least NML could enforce that), but all the others are optional and could be defined individually <- but it's perfectly valid to check if a certain railtype is defined and if so, override only the depots 17:35:28 <Yexo> at least from what I remember that works correctly 17:38:19 *** LadyHawk [~here@office01.ldhosting.com] has joined #openttd 17:40:48 <LadyHawk> hmm so i'm playing ottd again with these huge amounts of trains over a small piece of track 17:41:12 <LadyHawk> and i found something that's a bit strange with path signals 17:42:02 <LadyHawk> basically, if a train entering a path signal block has 3 possible exits 17:42:37 <LadyHawk> it will pick the one that's been free the longest amount of time 17:42:49 <LadyHawk> even if that exit track's signal is green, but blocked off by another train 17:43:03 <LadyHawk> instead of picking a perfectly free path, the train STOPS and waits 17:43:15 <LadyHawk> which is bad? 17:43:54 <frosch123> do not mix path signals with exit signals 17:43:56 <planetmaker> the blue one 17:45:13 <LadyHawk> would it be possible to adjust the behaviour so it picks the SHORTEST free route instead? 17:45:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22852 /trunk/src/lang/ (finnish.txt unfinished/persian.txt vietnamese.txt): 17:45:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by USephiroth 17:45:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 3 changes by Peymanpn 17:45:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 2 changes by nglekhoi 17:45:51 <Ammler> LadyHawk: maybe your penalty settings are screwed up, try with a new cfg 17:46:00 <frosch123> LadyHawk: your observation is wrong, the pathfinder always picks the shortest wrong 17:46:02 <Ammler> (on a new game) 17:46:04 <LadyHawk> or is that a lot of coding? (i know hassle in the past with pbs) 17:46:16 <frosch123> likely your signal layout is wrong, but you did not show us a screenshot 17:46:35 <LadyHawk> i could show a screenshot, hang on 17:46:40 <LadyHawk> gotta take one firstg 17:46:48 <planetmaker> that is never required when talking about signals and vehicles moving or loading funnily 17:47:20 <LadyHawk> and i'll also have the issue i'm describing on the4 screenshot as well 17:50:11 <LadyHawk> tryiing to get into my ftp now.. 17:50:43 *** pjpe [ae5f3a02@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:56:33 <LadyHawk> i can't get in 17:56:36 <LadyHawk> this is annoying 17:59:23 <LadyHawk> http://i.imgur.com/khmTI.png 17:59:24 <LadyHawk> there 18:01:20 <LadyHawk> all tracks go to the exact same spot, so the waiting train should just go straight over, which is the shortest route and also the only free route available 18:01:23 <LadyHawk> but it doesn't want it 18:01:27 <LadyHawk> it wants track 2 18:01:57 <LadyHawk> because it was the longest free track until someone else reserved a path to it 18:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to change the amount of signals considered for lookahead 18:02:48 <LadyHawk> oh that sounds like something that's been annoying me for a while 18:03:21 <LadyHawk> where could i find this setting? 18:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in the console 18:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> try "list_settings lookahead" or something 18:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> default value is 10 18:05:03 <frosch123> at first you should remove at least the first three signals on every line after the junction 18:05:47 <LadyHawk> frosch123 i do that and the trains block up in front of the junction, there's too much traffic it needs to go fast ;) 18:05:56 <LadyHawk> Eddi|zuHause it's not actually showing me a value when i type that in 18:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: then the name is something else 18:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: try "list_settings signal" 18:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: or "list_settings pf.yapf.rail" 18:07:32 <LadyHawk> hmm list_settings signal showed me a bunch of things 18:08:02 <LadyHawk> pf.yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals 10 18:08:29 <LadyHawk> i'm guessing this is the one 18:08:59 <LadyHawk> so how would i change this one 18:09:09 <LadyHawk> setting signal pf.yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals 5 18:09:12 <LadyHawk> for example? 18:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: without the first "signal" 18:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so it would have been "look_ahead" earlier 18:10:27 <LadyHawk> done, it didn't give me any confirmation, just a new command line 18:10:29 <LadyHawk> probably yes 18:10:59 <LadyHawk> let me test :) 18:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you: all changes to pathfinder settings may cause trouble at the other end of your network 18:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> a guy recently had trouble because this setting was too low 18:13:17 <LadyHawk> i've set it to 2 18:13:35 <LadyHawk> and i must say, the trains stop behaving randomly 18:14:03 <LadyHawk> now they're showing a clear pattern as to which exit track they prefer when they have more than 1 choice 18:16:04 <LadyHawk> it's going a lot smoother on busy blocks like that now (116 trains in total on that track in the screenshot) 18:16:15 <LadyHawk> thanks a lot for showing me this :D 18:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> beware of loops when setting this to low values 18:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> a train might decide to go in circles instead of waiting for a signal to become green 18:18:06 <LadyHawk> the chosing depots thing looks broken now but at least it makes sense now as to what the train wants to do 18:18:15 <LadyHawk> so i can fix it properly 18:18:30 <LadyHawk> that's another thing the trains just kept doing at random... can't fix something if it seems random 18:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing is random in this game. not even the random values :p 18:19:29 <LadyHawk> if i can't spot a behaviour pattern i find it random enough 18:20:53 <LadyHawk> thanks again Eddi|zuHause, i'm gonna go now :) 18:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what you mean is chaotic :) 18:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> chaotic means there is a system behind it that we do not (yet) recognize 18:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's basically the opposite of random (which means there is no system behind it at all) 18:30:04 <supermop_> that's incorrect 18:30:28 <supermop_> chaos means 'without order' 18:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, until you bring in the phrase "the genious brings order to the chaos" 18:32:44 <supermop_> that implies that chaos has no order 18:33:06 <planetmaker> does it have? 18:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but it has, the non-genious is just unable to see it 18:33:32 <supermop_> if improved perception divines order, then it was not a chaos to begin with 18:33:44 <planetmaker> chaotic in a scientific term means that it depends on the initial conditions more sensitively than you can measure 18:33:51 <planetmaker> (or boundary conditions) 18:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> chaos is the oldest god (in greek mythology) 18:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> then gaia was born 18:35:36 <supermop_> yes, chaos is the primordial state before order was created 18:36:40 <planetmaker> hm... can an industry read the road bits of an adjacent tile? 18:36:55 <planetmaker> I only find that I can see "road yes/no" - but maybe I miss something 18:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the road bits can be read 18:37:21 <planetmaker> I want to draw a gate where the road goes towards the industry tile :-) 18:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: instead of road bits, you need something like "road continuation info" (similar to rail stations) 18:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: makes it more flexible wrt. bridge heads, road stations, depots, "traffic objects", ... 18:39:03 <planetmaker> yes, that would suit better 18:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you might want to draw a gate for rails as well ;) 18:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> for future flexibility, "road continuation info" may be a list of lanes with an offset and a direction 18:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> by default, offsets might be 6 and 10. in/out depending on road side 18:42:55 <planetmaker> hm... interesting, yes :-) 18:44:40 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 18:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you limit number of lanes to 4, you could bitstuff that into a dword (4 bit offset (0-15) and 3 bit direction (DIR_N..DIR_NW)) 18:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> leaves 1 bit for used/unused 18:52:41 *** supermop__ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:53:59 <Hirundo> Yexo: The guy in the NML topic complained that his depot-only grf didn't work 18:54:31 <Hirundo> As far as I've been able to see, depots are the only case where having the 'required' stuff is a prerequisite 18:59:48 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:51 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.158.84.228] has joined #openttd 19:02:59 <Hirundo> Which gave the confusing result that his grf only worked if loaded after a grf that re-defined "RAIL" itself (eg swedishrails) 19:07:11 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:49 *** LadyHawk [~here@office01.ldhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:05 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:02 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 19:24:26 <perk11> http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:Escapedepot.png why doesn't this combination seem to work anymore in 1.1.2? 19:24:35 <perk11> It used to work in previous versions 19:26:11 <Terkhen> what does it do now and what did it before? 19:26:57 <glx> exit signals without entry is strange 19:26:58 <perk11> the train went to the depot when all the paths are full 19:27:24 <perk11> and now they just choose the nearest path 19:29:10 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:30:01 <perk11> It worked maybe because there was a combo signal in the depot 19:31:00 <michi_cc> My guess: You have pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol set to false (the default since 1.1 or maybe 1.0, not sure) while the example assumes a value of true. There are a lot more situations where false makes more sense than those few that only work with true, which is why it was changed. 19:31:40 <perk11> ok 19:31:45 <perk11> I'll check it 19:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are variants of overflow depots that work without "eol" being set to true 19:33:56 <perk11> michi_cc: you are right 19:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> basically you need to make sure that firstred_exit_penalty is larger than the depot penalty 19:34:35 <perk11> Eddi|zuHause: maybe someone will add one of those to the wiki? 19:34:40 <perk11> Instead of that one 19:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i am pretty sure i have seen it somewhere 19:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> perk11: the wiki page should rather more clearly say that this value has to be said 19:35:21 <perk11> Eddi|zuHause: ok 19:37:55 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:40:24 <Hirundo> frosch123: Would this diff make sense: http://pastebin.com/xpPxjSZ9 ? 19:42:50 <frosch123> what shall it do? 19:43:52 <frosch123> ah, it allows replacing the depot without the tracks, right? 19:44:57 <frosch123> is this the only place? what about the gui? 19:45:14 <frosch123> i.e. the orientation picker 19:45:49 <Hirundo> The GUI sprite selection is not so picky 19:45:56 <Hirundo> either you replace or do not replace all sprites 19:46:44 <frosch123> i mean the orientation picker, not the toolbar 19:48:12 <frosch123> DrawTrainDepotSprite() needs the same change 19:48:24 *** xahodo [~chatzilla@energy.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:48:31 <xahodo> Hello 19:48:31 <Hirundo> indeed 19:48:51 <Hirundo> can't test right now as my just-compiled OpenTTD crashes on startup 19:50:42 <Hirundo> And now I did *something* that made MSVC think it needs a full recompile *argh* 19:51:12 <planetmaker> string change? 19:51:55 <Hirundo> string change doesn't rebuild blitters/drivers :S probably touched some config while messing with my repo 19:53:05 <xahodo> Which advanced setting regulates how long trains wait to find a path past a signal? 19:53:48 <xahodo> I've got trains waiting on a busy peace of track while a continued path is available. 20:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause> they calculate which path is the shortest and then wait until that exact path gets free. if an actually free path is longer, they never take that 20:04:29 <xahodo> problem is, they wait for the free route, even though they can already take it for some time. 20:04:34 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:05:29 <xahodo> it takes them about a second to realize they can move on. 20:05:39 * planetmaker senses again a discussion about "this train should go here or there" without savegame or least a screenshot 20:05:58 <xahodo> no 20:06:12 * xahodo foobared some patch setting, wonders which 20:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> xahodo: try the path backoff interval 20:07:55 * xahodo hugs Eddi|zuHause 20:07:57 <xahodo> THANKS 20:08:57 <Hirundo> frosch123: New diff, this time tested beyond compilation: http://pastebin.com/A6cmbkL6 20:09:50 <Hirundo> AFAIK, all other non-required stuff (catenary, gui) works the same 20:11:51 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 20:17:42 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:53 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.41] has joined #openttd 20:20:06 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:49 <xahodo> Thanks for the help Eddi|zuHause, but it turned out to be pf.wait_oneway_signal 20:20:56 <xahodo> I reduced its value to 2 20:22:50 <xahodo> errr... I also reduced pf.path_backoff_interval to 1 at first. but the latter setting did the trick. 20:24:26 <Wolf01> 'night 20:24:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:28:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22853 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Doc: Add a missing bit of AI documentation. 20:33:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22854 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Change: [NewGRF] Allow replacing depot sprites without having to provide rail overlays. (Hirundo) 20:34:08 <Hirundo> Thanks frosch123 :) 20:34:16 <frosch123> thanks as well :) 20:35:13 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:08 <planetmaker> great :-) 20:40:29 <supermop__> wait what? 20:43:44 <frosch123> night 20:43:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff56c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:15 <supermop__> what happened? 20:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> two people thanked each other and you missed the point. 20:47:27 *** totot [4f5a8652@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:38 <totot> hey 20:48:38 *** totot [4f5a8652@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 20:50:20 *** lessthanthree [lt3@d75-154-187-134.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:22 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:48 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:56:13 <pjpe> oh planetmaker 20:56:16 <pjpe> how did you get liblzma on os x 20:57:13 <planetmaker> sudo port install lzma 20:57:21 <pjpe> macports? 20:57:25 <planetmaker> yup 20:57:27 <pjpe> i tried brew install lama and opened doesn't recognize it 20:57:30 <pjpe> lzma 20:57:33 <planetmaker> brew? 20:57:34 <planetmaker> omg 20:57:54 <planetmaker> everytime I looked at their pages I was like "wth?!" 20:58:07 <planetmaker> if people follow their advice they're on the path to sudo rm -rf / 20:58:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@195-80-17-37-hg0.surfree-adsl.tcp.net.uk] has joined #openttd 21:01:24 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:25 <planetmaker> basically you'll have to teach the system to look for the header files and libaries in the proper paths, though 21:05:02 <planetmaker> and... the proper package name is liblzma of course 21:05:11 <planetmaker> also on macports 21:05:24 <planetmaker> but I guess the wiki describes it 21:05:42 <pjpe> brew only has one called lzma 21:06:02 <planetmaker> you need not the archiver but the development libraries and headers 21:06:13 <planetmaker> macports has both, lzma and liblzma 21:08:36 <pjpe> now why does make run-prof profile right on ubuntu but not on os x 21:08:37 <pjpe> wth 21:09:20 <planetmaker> osx is a bsd, not a linux ;-) 21:14:09 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.41] has joined #openttd 21:15:31 <__ln__> is there any unit of length that cannot be converted to metres by multiplying with a constant? 21:16:08 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:19:43 <Terkhen> good night 21:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you mean like a logarithmic scale? 21:30:45 *** xahodo [~chatzilla@energy.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 21:31:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@195-80-17-37-hg0.surfree-adsl.tcp.net.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:32:00 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: that, and/or zero has an offset. 21:32:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (off the top of my head) the only units which have an offset are for temperature and pressure 21:34:46 <__ln__> how boring 21:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (pressure used to be given in "AtmosphÀrenÃŒberdruck" (atÃŒ) with the offset 1 bar = 0 atÃŒ) 21:41:05 <planetmaker> energy has an arbitrary offset 21:41:14 <planetmaker> and needs gauging 21:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> energy, similar to distance, is a unit of differences, the offset is irrelevant there 21:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> basically all vectorial units have that 21:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the very nature of a vector 21:47:17 <planetmaker> energy is a scalar, not a vector 21:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you define as a vector ;) 21:48:01 <planetmaker> not really. Energy is never a vector 21:48:43 <planetmaker> you may calculate with the energy-momentum tensor. But that's a matrix rather 21:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a vector is a member of a set that has operations vector+vector and scalar*vector defined. clearly energy has that ;) 21:49:25 <planetmaker> no. As there's no vector 21:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but in comparison, temperature+temperature or pressure+pressure doesn't make a lot of sense 21:50:14 <planetmaker> with your definition of vector "1" is also a vector 21:50:33 <planetmaker> which is ... not true according to the usual algebra 21:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 1 (of set R) is a member of the vector-space R^1 21:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously, any field is in itself also a vector-space 21:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's perfectly legal for "1" to be both scalar and vector at the same time ;) 21:53:26 <planetmaker> and it's similarily pointless 21:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you have no clue of maths ;) 21:54:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:55:03 <planetmaker> sure. Good that you know then how to treat energy as a "vector". Which is physically nonsense 21:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll have to do away with the interpretation that "vector" is "something like a direction" 21:57:35 <planetmaker> you're forgetting that you argue physics - where energy is not useful to treat as vector 21:58:08 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:58:08 <planetmaker> thus you have to use actually something more than mathematical deduction ab initio 21:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i forgot that i was discussing with a physicist :) 21:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (and didn't make my nomenclature clear in the beginning) 21:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> let's just conclude that your idea of "vector" and my idea of "vector" don't quite match 22:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and thus i meant something different than you understood 22:00:28 <planetmaker> I know well the mathematical definition of vector. It simply does not apply to the context you used it 22:01:50 <planetmaker> saying a scalar quantity is a vector may be mathematically correct - but is physically nonsense 22:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what is the core of a vector (in my sense above) was that there is no defined "origin" 22:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what may make this distinction clear is the concept of time. there is a defined origin called "birth of christ" (even if that does not really match the actual event). and there are absolute times (like 29.8.2006 0:07) and relative times (2 minutes 3 seconds) 22:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the relative times are "vectors" in the mathematical sense 22:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> in the sense that you can freely add and substract them, or scale them 22:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but you cannot add absolute times, or scale them 22:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (you can substract absolute times, and get a relative time, though) 22:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (mathematically, the combination of absolute and relative times is an affine space) 22:10:21 * __ln__ 's Theorem: a vector is a more or less straight line drawn on paper, with an arrow in one end 22:10:22 <planetmaker> with that definition everything is a vector 22:11:22 <planetmaker> and... time is actually one of the worst things to speak of when using "absolute" in the same sentence 22:11:58 <planetmaker> your GPS would fail, if there was anywhere an absolute time 22:13:03 <planetmaker> temperature has an absolute zero, though 22:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, when you add the relativistic element, things get complicated :p 22:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the same argument holds with absolute temperatures and temperature-differences as well 22:15:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D433.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:48 <planetmaker> you can't "add" temperature 22:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i can add temperature-differences 22:16:13 <planetmaker> neither. 22:16:20 <planetmaker> You can add or remove energy 22:16:39 <planetmaker> which may or may not result in a temperature change 22:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that is technical blah :) 22:17:01 <planetmaker> not at all 22:17:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D433.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:23 <planetmaker> without this distinction time direction would be undefined as it defines entropy 22:17:48 <planetmaker> (around a few corners at least ;-) ) 22:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> in a simplified temperature-model, every material has a caloric constant, which directly scales an energy into a temperature difference 22:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> this means, temperature-differences and energy are isomorphic vector spaces 22:19:22 <planetmaker> this model is invalid if you want to include the zero-point 22:19:26 <planetmaker> for ALL materials 22:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (if you leave out all the crazy freezing stuff) 22:19:41 <planetmaker> even without phase transitions 22:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, a temperature model as simplified as this would have no absolute zero, since that cannot happen in a vector space :) 22:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (vector spaces must be defined over a field, which means it must be "open") 22:22:00 <planetmaker> a vector space has a well-defined 0 for the add operation 22:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but that is not the same as an "absolute 0" 22:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it also has nothing to do with an "origin" 22:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the "0" you think of would be a "0 temperature-difference", not a "absolute 0 temperature" 22:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> confusing the two clearly demonstrates that you still have not understood my point 22:25:26 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:26:33 <planetmaker> so you argue physics, throw away the physical boundaries, simplify to an unphysical, unbound vector space and I have mis-understood your point? 22:27:35 <planetmaker> I'd rather argue you're confusing some things ;-) 22:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> clearly, as the point was to throw away all the physical nonsense and discuss the underlying mathematical concept 22:28:15 <planetmaker> that was not what we started discussing nor I ever discussed 22:29:04 <planetmaker> the starting point was your statement that energy is a vector. Which remains of dubious quality 22:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what i meant to explain was that my concept of "vector" as used in the initial sentence was "anything that can reasonably be described as the difference of two absolute values" 22:30:29 <planetmaker> well. Energy already is not an absolute value as it's subject to the gauge invariance 22:31:49 <planetmaker> (though by all practical terms, the offset can usually be set to 0) 22:41:01 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-025-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:01:14 *** supermop__ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 23:18:48 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:14 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.158.84.228] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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