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00:25:38 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:02 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:38:05 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4838:564a:915f:17ac] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:38:57 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:39:42 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:44:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 00:50:22 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-90-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:54:49 <Wolf01> 'night 00:54:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:05:41 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has joined #openttd 01:06:02 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has quit [] 01:06:05 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has joined #openttd 01:06:21 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has quit [] 01:06:23 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has joined #openttd 01:06:39 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has quit [] 01:11:51 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has joined #openttd 01:11:56 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@82.74.125.226] has joined #openttd 01:12:15 <Malaca1077> hello 01:12:27 <Malaca1077> any1 there for a info about ttd? 01:15:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-57-249.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:46 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@82.74.125.226] has left #openttd [] 01:33:43 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-059-246.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:39:21 *** Malaca1077 [john@92.250.120.19] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 02:22:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:25 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:06 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73737.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7385B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:19:26 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 05:46:20 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:48:08 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 06:08:14 *** pjpe [ae5b533a@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:12:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:13:10 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:15:36 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:29:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:25 <andythenorth> morn 06:38:25 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:41:17 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:52:06 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:00:39 <planetmaker> heya 07:03:14 <V453000> morning 07:05:14 <andythenorth> planetmaker: want to help do a fun FIRS ticket? 07:05:39 <planetmaker> in principle yes 07:05:49 <planetmaker> I'm always doing fun tickets ;-) 07:05:52 <andythenorth> I want to give the food market 2 small climate-dependent trees 07:06:02 <andythenorth> currently it has two flower pots 07:06:09 <andythenorth> I'm slicing the graphics a bit more now 07:06:13 <planetmaker> that's relatively easy 07:06:15 <andythenorth> we can give it foundations at the same time 07:06:23 <andythenorth> easy ticket for a weekend :) 07:06:39 <andythenorth> I'll do my bit now + commit 07:06:44 <V453000> fuck guys I just got an insane idea I _have_ to draw :D 07:07:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I assume you want to use a tree from the default trees? 07:07:47 <andythenorth> base set yes 07:07:49 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 07:07:59 <andythenorth> there are some small fir trees and palm trees :) 07:07:59 <planetmaker> (or tree grf, whatever one uses) 07:08:24 <planetmaker> yes 07:12:52 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:13:31 <planetmaker> hm, foundations? 07:14:02 <andythenorth> black ground detai 07:14:03 <andythenorth> l 07:20:14 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:20:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:24:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what kind of tree? Leaf? fir? 07:24:24 <andythenorth> temperate: leaf; arctic: fir; tropic: cacti 07:24:44 <planetmaker> good. I'll look 07:26:15 <Alberth> moin 07:27:44 <andythenorth> hi 07:31:11 *** pjpe [ae5b533a@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:32:25 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 07:43:11 <Terkhen> good morning 07:50:27 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:51:43 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 08:12:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:14:51 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 08:28:02 <Wolf01> morning 08:32:53 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 08:46:49 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:35 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.185.151] has joined #openttd 08:59:00 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:01:17 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-90-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:10:52 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C377.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 09:10:56 <Amis> Hello o/ 09:11:42 <Amis> I was wondering if it's possible to set the "No. of towns" setting below "Very low" through some config tweaking or something? 09:11:54 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.185.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:33 <Alberth> not really 09:12:46 <Alberth> you could generate a map in the scenario editor though 09:13:21 <Alberth> but that is a bit more work than 1 "generate" button :) 09:13:34 <Amis> Yeah :/ 09:14:26 <Amis> Okkkeeey... 09:14:38 <Amis> It IS possible, I just had to upgrade my OpenTTD 09:14:57 <Alberth> oh? 09:15:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.69] has joined #openttd 09:15:27 <Amis> There's a "Custom" option in 1.13 09:15:32 <Amis> 1.1.3* 09:16:15 <Terkhen> yes :) 09:16:24 <Terkhen> you will have to scale the value to mapsize manually, though 09:16:35 <Amis> It's still a nice addition 09:16:44 <Terkhen> :) 09:19:08 <Alberth> hmm, I must play more openttd :p 09:19:57 *** const86 [~const@2001:470:1f0b:dc7:216:ebff:fe19:a8f4] has joined #openttd 09:20:36 <Amis> Now all you have to add is custom interest rates :> 09:20:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:33 <Alberth> that doesn't fix anything, it just postpones 09:23:03 <Amis> 4% is too low :/ you can vegetate with that and not go bankrupt 09:23:40 <Terkhen> I remember a discussion explaining what would happen in the forums 09:23:42 <Alberth> you know there are lots of base cost grfs, right? 09:23:56 <planetmaker> they don't change the interest, though 09:24:09 *** const86 [~const@2001:470:1f0b:dc7:216:ebff:fe19:a8f4] has left #openttd [] 09:24:11 <planetmaker> but indeed changing base costs is the way to get a much steeper challenge 09:24:27 <planetmaker> more than interest ever could - as that only would affect the beginning 09:24:57 <planetmaker> i.e. it's usually very tough for people, if you make terraforming really â¬â¬â¬â¬â¬â¬â¬ 09:25:06 * Alberth wonders about a "you were robbed of all your money" disaster 09:25:07 <planetmaker> like 1 million per tile, 10 million per tile of water 09:25:28 <planetmaker> it keeps you really from terraforming lots ;-) 09:25:38 <Terkhen> more money for the rest of stuff! 09:25:54 <Alberth> I tend not to do much terraforming anyway :) 09:26:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B25F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:27:57 <planetmaker> but less straight tracks ;-) 09:28:14 <planetmaker> Alberth: for single player that's usually a non-issue. You can do there what you want. 09:28:32 <planetmaker> But it's a great way to keep the landscape intact on open multi-player servers :-) 09:28:44 <Terkhen> yes :) 09:28:47 <Terkhen> specially the water costs 09:28:52 <planetmaker> yeah 09:32:24 <Elukka> increased base costs mostly just feel like they slow down the start of the game even more 09:32:31 <Elukka> eventually you'll still have effectively infinite money 09:33:34 <Elukka> well. if it's as drastic as "a million per tile", i suppose that keeps people from terraforming very much :) 09:35:43 <planetmaker> doesn't increased interest just slow down the start even more either? 09:36:01 <planetmaker> I mean... after 4 years I have no loan anymore - so where does it play a role then? 09:36:10 <Elukka> yeah, that doesn't do it either 09:36:13 <Elukka> i'm not sure what would 09:36:49 <Elukka> kidnap an economist, make him simplify and abstract a real world model into something fun and playable and make him code a patch 09:37:58 <Alberth> have a contract paying x for y tonnes in z years ? 09:39:01 <Terkhen> there is a sticky thread about economy in the development subforum 09:39:11 <Terkhen> I have always ignored it, money does not bother me :P 09:39:13 <Elukka> i saw that but isn't that kinda dead 09:39:23 <Terkhen> yes, but it might have some ideas and pointers 09:39:28 <Elukka> true 09:40:40 <Alberth> hmm, a contract system looks a lot like yacd 09:40:55 <Terkhen> yes :) 09:42:32 <planetmaker> rb has somewhere a new payment scheme. 09:42:38 <planetmaker> that provides also a new challenge 09:44:01 <Elukka> i do like what yacd does 09:44:03 <Terkhen> yes :) 09:44:12 <Terkhen> you can also abuse the cargo payment callback a bit 09:44:15 <Elukka> staying with cargodist until it gets ironed out a bit though 09:44:28 <Terkhen> and I'm waiting for a new version of yacd before I play again :P 09:45:03 <planetmaker> :-D 09:45:17 <Elukka> the most painful part is how you have to keep making vehicles manually skip orders cause every time you add a new vehicle to a route some of them will stop loading 09:48:53 <Terkhen> I always use go non-stop orders, specially with yacd 09:50:58 <Elukka> so do i 09:52:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:54:38 <planetmaker> Usually I do. Except possibly for local train networks 10:01:01 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:10:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:15:58 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/kerbal.png 10:15:59 <Elukka> spees 10:17:13 <Alberth> doesn't look like the nasa satellite :) 10:25:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:28:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:34:06 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 10:37:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 10:53:51 <MNIM> it ain't :P 10:54:44 <MNIM> http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ 10:54:52 <MNIM> it's awfully beta, though 10:56:16 <Elukka> awfully fun anyway 10:56:39 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp31QPE1-Zo 10:56:46 <Elukka> i'm currently trying to loft this to orbit and back 10:56:54 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:07 <MNIM> heh, nice 11:00:17 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-156-35.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:06:38 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 11:11:53 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:16:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-183-047.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:30:20 <andythenorth> too quiet 11:30:45 <Markk> Yep. 11:31:05 <planetmaker> yup. Have a nice day :-) I'm off for the rest. Too nice weather outside :-) 11:31:16 <Markk> Anyone speaking dutch? 11:31:50 <Terkhen> planetmaker: enjoy :) 11:32:09 <Alberth> Markk: at an english speaking channel? unlikely 11:32:40 <Alberth> but just try to express what you want to know 11:32:49 <Alberth> if it is unclear, we will ask again 11:32:57 <Alberth> for clarification 11:33:17 <Markk> Alberth: There is alot of german speaking people here. :) 11:34:04 <Markk> But ye, my question is if you can say: "Hoe gaat het?"? 11:34:11 <Markk> (In the meaning "How are you?". 11:34:17 <Markk> Or "what's up?" 11:34:26 <Alberth> busy, as always :) 11:34:59 <MNIM> actually, there's quite some dutch people in the ottd community, so it's quite likely there are 11:35:22 <Markk> Thought so. :) 11:36:49 <Markk> I shared a flat together with a dutch guy before, and I came to the conclusion that Dutch is more alike Swedish than German and Swedish. 11:36:55 <Alberth> MNIM: and the next question is then "kan ik je wat dingen vragen in een prive chat?" (can I ask you a few things in a private chat?) 11:37:27 <MNIM> 0-o 11:37:32 <Alberth> which is kind of counter-productive as more people means better answers 11:37:35 <Markk> Atleast when you've learned some basic things in Dutch. 11:37:37 <__ln__> and "pardon, bent u'n romulaan?" 11:37:45 <MNIM> ... 11:38:04 <MNIM> no, I'm not romulan, Im vulcan, mkayyy 11:38:19 <Alberth> __ln__: wrong universe :p 11:38:26 <MNIM> hehehe 11:38:58 <MNIM> but yeah, privmsg is kindof dumb 11:42:05 *** grovsalt [8mfy11@host-88-80-29-36.cust.prq.se] has left #openttd [WeeChat 0.3.5] 11:47:56 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:53:35 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-247-68.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:27 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:20 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 12:46:56 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C377.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:44 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-183-047.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 12:50:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f95e:7664:2fee:eb5b] has joined #openttd 12:50:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:10:24 *** xmirakulix [~flo@85-127-111-89.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 13:10:28 *** Silene [~chatzilla@p5DDA407F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:10:48 <Silene> hello 13:11:06 <Alberth> hi 13:11:41 <Silene> i just tried out openttd but might need some general help 13:12:06 <Alberth> you've come to the right channel :) 13:12:13 <Silene> great :) 13:12:34 <Silene> i managed to start a game and play a little 13:12:52 <Silene> but there are several things wich bug me 13:13:46 <Silene> first of all everything is going very fast 13:14:03 <Silene> while i'm building stuff i get popup windows all the time 13:14:13 <Elukka> popup windows? 13:14:14 <Silene> newspaper etc 13:14:56 <MNIM> ignore 'em, they're not that important 13:15:06 <Silene> idling busses 13:15:10 <Silene> etc 13:15:23 <MNIM> did you give 'em orders? 13:15:33 <Elukka> you can turn off newspaper messages for any events you like 13:15:46 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Message_settings <-- news settings 13:16:49 <Silene> is it possible to run the game slower? 13:16:54 <Alberth> as for speed, do you have the fast-forward switched on? http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_interface#The_Menu_bar 13:17:08 <Silene> no it's too fast on normal speed :-D 13:17:31 <Alberth> what is too fast exactly? 13:17:34 <Alberth> trains? 13:17:40 <Silene> time running 13:17:52 <Terkhen> you can enable build on pause 13:18:05 <Alberth> time is not of interest, you have 100 years, which is about 24h real-time playing 13:18:06 <Silene> i can? 13:18:08 <Elukka> huh. you can? 13:18:15 <Elukka> shows how much i know 13:18:15 <Alberth> yes, yes 13:18:22 <Terkhen> hmm... at least in nightlies, let me check if it is in 1.1.x 13:18:25 <MNIM> lol, you didn't know that, elukka? 13:18:32 <Elukka> i didn't! 13:18:33 <MNIM> but yeah, I do build in pause too 13:18:44 <Silene> time is important if i want subventions ^^ 13:18:47 <Terkhen> well, the conversion from cheat to setting is relatively recent 13:19:26 <MNIM> generally I spend more time paused than running, but game years still advance at a pace thanks to FFWD 13:19:49 <Terkhen> Silene: Options menu > Advanced Settings > Construction > When paused allow: all actions 13:21:13 <Silene> found it :) 13:21:37 <Silene> when i'm in the game, how do i get to the main menu? 13:23:31 <MNIM> exit current game (you will want to save first) 13:23:40 <MNIM> but if you want options, you don't want to do that 13:23:42 <Silene> via console? 13:23:50 <MNIM> ...console? no! 13:24:33 <Silene> so how? 13:24:42 <MNIM> click on the gear icon, hold click and move down to advanced settings 13:25:43 <Silene> gear icon? i think i don't have that one 13:26:02 <MNIM> right next to fast-forward and pause 13:26:03 <Silene> first icon is pause 13:26:56 <Silene> ah ok 13:27:09 <Silene> but that doesn't lead me to main menu 13:27:18 <Silene> i can do settings there, ok 13:27:30 <Terkhen> disk IIRC 13:28:10 <Terkhen> Silene: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_interface#The_Menu_bar 13:29:11 <Silene> ah on the load icon :). 13:29:34 <Silene> (and my gear looks like a wrench btw) 13:29:57 <Terkhen> you are using original ttd sprites then 13:30:02 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 13:30:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7385B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:30:29 <Silene> yes 13:31:23 <Silene> i played the game years ago ^^ 13:32:15 <Terkhen> the wiki is made (for the most part) with opengfx (the free graphics) but buttons are in the same places with both graphics sets 13:33:24 *** llugo [bnc4free@209.141.56.5] has joined #openttd 13:33:27 *** Vadtec_ [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 13:33:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7385B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:32 *** lugo [bnc4free@209.141.56.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:54 <Silene> ic. is there a big difference? 13:34:11 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:34 <Silene> the menu bar looks pretty much the same 13:34:40 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:44 <Silene> except for the gear/wrench ^^ 13:34:55 <z-MaTRiX> hi 13:35:09 <Elukka> so my friend recompiled the version i was looking for 13:35:14 <z-MaTRiX> :) 13:35:19 <z-MaTRiX> we have a winner 13:35:40 <z-MaTRiX> Sep 11 01:01:33 matrix sshd[17340]: Accepted password for root from 188.24.162.55 port 1588 ssh 13:35:42 <Elukka> i like how the folder is named "BUNDLE OF JOY - OPENTTD THAT WEIRDLY SPECIFIC VERSION YOU SO WANTED WITH CARGODIST PATCH" 13:35:58 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:35:58 *** Vadtec_ is now known as Vadtec 13:36:03 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@2600:3c00::2:2001] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:36:53 <Silene> is it possible to make the mouseover text appear faster? 13:37:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:28 <Terkhen> finally, the first person that asks about that :P 13:37:41 <z-MaTRiX> į believe it is the advanced menu "help appears after x seconds" 13:37:42 <Terkhen> Silene: advanced settings -> interface -> show tooltips 13:38:24 <Terkhen> Elukka: patchpacks are not including cargodist anymore? 13:38:40 <Silene> really? 13:38:55 <Elukka> i haven't found any cargodist binary new enough to work with recent FIRS 13:39:09 <Terkhen> patch packers must be on vacation too :P 13:39:22 <Elukka> the auto compile thing is on vacation also :P 13:39:31 <Terkhen> Silene: many just use "right click to show tooltip" 13:39:36 <Elukka> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/ 13:39:37 <Elukka> june 13:40:15 <Silene> i should've installed in english 13:40:17 <Elukka> chill's patchpack looks awful nice 13:40:22 <Elukka> probably going to play that if he ever gets it updated 13:40:30 <Terkhen> Silene: OpenTTD should include all languages 13:40:30 <Elukka> i hear he's busy with that pesky real life thing 13:40:41 <Terkhen> go to options and select the one you want 13:41:15 <Alberth> Elukka: yep, new house that needs some fixing before the winter 13:41:34 <Terkhen> sounds important :P 13:42:17 <Alberth> Elukka: but I am sure he doesn't mind if you help him with an updated patch pack ;) 13:42:37 <Elukka> i think i'm more useful drawing sprites :P 13:42:40 <Terkhen> updating a patchpack is a huge PITA 13:43:08 <Alberth> z-MaTRiX: sshd could use a bit more tightening :p 13:44:18 <Elukka> yay this works 13:44:18 <z-MaTRiX> not sure about it 13:44:28 <Elukka> FIRS 0.7 + cargodist <3 13:44:40 <Terkhen> happy testing :P 13:45:20 <Silene> next thing i wondered about is why my busses where having breakdowns so often 13:45:45 <Elukka> wellll it should work 13:45:48 <z-MaTRiX> though interesting its in the secure log 13:45:51 <Elukka> unless cargodist itself was recently broken of course 13:46:03 <z-MaTRiX> session got closed after 13:46:10 <Terkhen> Silene: there is a difficulty setting to modify how much they break, but by default they break as much as they did in the original game 13:46:12 <Terkhen> which is a lot :P 13:46:19 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8214eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:30 <Alberth> z-MaTRiX: root login from outside is not that good, normally, you log in as normal user through ssh, and then become root 13:46:49 <Silene> i didn't remember that ... 13:47:00 <Alberth> z-MaTRiX: a cracker then has to break two doors instead of one 13:47:01 <z-MaTRiX> how does SELinux feel about it? 13:47:14 <Silene> default is the "normal setting"? 13:47:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff81e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:47 <Alberth> no idea, I have sshd disabled entirely :) 13:47:55 <z-MaTRiX> hehe 13:48:49 <z-MaTRiX> but its kindof funny to see random user logins and password guesses 13:49:25 <Alberth> like spamming, but more subtle :) 13:49:51 <andythenorth> he 13:49:55 <z-MaTRiX> a slap after 6 tries btw 13:49:55 * andythenorth has the answer 13:50:05 <andythenorth> guess the question? 13:50:21 <z-MaTRiX> hi andythenorth whatsup? 13:50:29 <Alberth> what does it take for FIRS 1.0 ? 13:50:34 <andythenorth> hmm 13:50:46 <andythenorth> that question is related, hierarchically to my question 13:51:17 <Alberth> rofl 13:52:20 <andythenorth> orly? 13:52:24 <andythenorth> it's not that funny :P 13:52:42 * andythenorth is glad there aren't 255 cargos 13:52:49 * andythenorth has just had 5 new ideas 13:53:04 <andythenorth> in addition to rubber + auto parts, which is not new 13:53:19 <andythenorth> copper -> metal; copper -> electrical components 13:53:28 <andythenorth> electrical components -> factory 13:53:37 <Terkhen> sounds like something for economies 13:53:47 <andythenorth> sounds like something to mostly avoid 13:54:01 <andythenorth> chemicals -> paint factory -> building materials, manufacturing supplies 13:54:19 <andythenorth> not all ideas need to be brought to life 13:54:28 <Silene> what ki should i install. there are so many different 13:54:38 <Terkhen> Silene: ki? what do you mean? 13:54:45 <peter1138> ai 13:54:51 <Silene> ai 13:55:12 * Terkhen does not play with AI usually 13:56:29 <andythenorth> however 13:56:49 <andythenorth> metal + chemicals -> plating works -> mnsp + goods 13:57:30 <andythenorth> metal -> sheet metal works -> building materials, (auto parts - not in default economy) 13:57:41 <andythenorth> two new industries :o 13:57:50 <andythenorth> now I have to learn nml :o 14:02:22 <Terkhen> indeed :P 14:07:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 14:10:09 <appe> i think in need some help. 14:10:20 <appe> i have yet to discover new industries in openttd 14:10:34 <appe> where do i start? i cant seem to find any grf in the online content list? 14:10:39 <appe> (that i can use, that is) 14:12:02 <Alberth> there are two sets, ECS and FIRS 14:12:10 * andythenorth discovers a list of metal industries 14:12:18 <andythenorth> how about a Screw Mill ? 14:12:28 <Alberth> most industries are built from metal :p 14:12:30 <andythenorth> Chain Works? 14:12:49 <andythenorth> Boiler Shop? 14:13:00 <Alberth> sounds explosive :) 14:13:26 <Terkhen> appe: if you use a industry NewGRF set, you will also need vehicle NewGRF sets that are able to carry the new cargos 14:14:33 <andythenorth> http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/help/help.asp?code=BTThes/c132062.htm 14:17:46 <Alberth> doesn't work for me 14:18:23 <z-MaTRiX> btw.: why does openttd hang in case clicking on multiplayer servers list when network is stalled? 14:18:51 <appe> Terkhen: ah, i see. 14:19:09 <appe> i was just downloading the town vektor from ECS vectors v1.1.2 14:20:24 <andythenorth> hmm 14:20:34 * andythenorth can't be bothered to learn how to add industries to FIRS 14:20:37 <andythenorth> :P 14:22:05 <Terkhen> for ECS you should check its wiki 14:22:27 <Terkhen> I have not used it, but I know that you need at least some specific vectors, and in a specific order 14:24:06 <Terkhen> most vehicle sets should support ECS 14:25:30 <andythenorth> "nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/plating_works.pnml", line 10: Block with name 'metal_foundryspriteset_ground' has already been defined" 14:25:31 <andythenorth> ?? 14:28:46 <appe> ah, i just tried out the town vector 14:28:57 <appe> it seems like i for instance need trucks with tourist support 14:31:18 <Elukka> andy: will you be redrawing the default industries like the steel mill eventually? 14:32:04 <andythenorth> dunno 14:32:27 <Elukka> they're not quite up on the same prettiness level as the FIRS industries 14:32:36 <andythenorth> most are better than FIRS 14:32:48 <andythenorth> the original graphics are better than most of mine 14:33:10 <Elukka> lies 14:33:15 * llugo disagrees 14:33:26 <Elukka> they're also somewhat different in style 14:33:40 <andythenorth> oh :( 14:33:53 <andythenorth> I have been trying to improve my style to match the original 14:33:58 <andythenorth> I thought I'd got close 14:34:09 <Elukka> i think FIRS is very compatible with TTRS and swedish houses and DB set and stuff like that 14:34:10 <Elukka> i wouldn't 14:34:14 <Elukka> i like your style better 14:34:18 <Terkhen> andythenorth: you are using THIS_ID(spriteset_ground) elsewhere already 14:34:31 <Terkhen> rename them to THIS_ID(spriteset_ground_1) and so on 14:34:34 <andythenorth> how is my style different to original? (so I can improve) 14:34:54 <Elukka> but i don't wanna, i don't want it to change :P 14:35:18 <Elukka> i think yours is more realistic and detailed 14:35:40 * Terkhen agrees with Elukka, although that might have to do with me playing with OpenGFX instead of ttdoriginal 14:36:10 <appe> oboy 14:36:12 <appe> this was fantastic 14:36:15 <Elukka> if i'm gonna make a screenshot to show how openttd looks nice i'll take it with FIRS and TTRS or swedish houses and opengfx+ terrain :P 14:36:27 <Terkhen> :) 14:37:07 <andythenorth> it's a bit depressing tbh 14:37:14 <andythenorth> I thought I'd figured out the original style 14:38:16 <Elukka> <Miguel> he's wrong 14:38:21 <Elukka> see, random people think yours looks better than default too 14:39:05 <Elukka> opengfx trees are also more in home with the style of FIRS and TTRS than they are with default, i think 14:39:20 <andythenorth> hmm 14:39:30 <andythenorth> not much I can say to this 14:39:40 <andythenorth> my goal is to replicate the original style almost 100% 14:39:45 <andythenorth> looks like I failed :( 14:40:03 <Elukka> no, you improved on it 14:40:04 <andythenorth> some industries have been redrawn twice already for this goal 14:40:09 <Elukka> like many artists did 14:40:18 <andythenorth> most didn't improve on it 14:40:24 <andythenorth> most damaged it :P 14:41:11 <Elukka> TTRS, swedish houses, DBset, 2cc, opengfx trees, to name a few that pop to mind 14:41:14 <Elukka> improved upon it in very similar style 14:42:54 <Terkhen> the style is similar, but the sprites are better :P 14:43:04 <Elukka> i think moving it back to the default style would be a mistake 14:43:39 <andythenorth> I'm not sure even how I'd do it 14:43:44 <andythenorth> I've done everything I can think of 14:44:01 <andythenorth> the style is pretty much an exact pixel-by-pixel clone of original 14:44:06 <Elukka> you've already surpassed it in quality, and most other good grfs do the same 14:44:14 <Alberth> I think you are more careful with shades; the original seems so flat at times 14:44:37 <Elukka> keep improving however you can but don't make it weaker just to emulate the original game 14:44:54 <andythenorth> hmm 14:45:06 * andythenorth is mostly baffled 14:45:19 <Alberth> Elukka: it is not 'weaker', it's 'different' 14:45:32 <Elukka> well, true 14:45:56 <Elukka> a matter of taste 14:47:32 <appe> hm 14:47:49 <appe> i cant seem to find where i get the proper trains for the right ecs grf 14:48:19 <appe> oh, hold on 14:50:05 <appe> yes, i cant find it :( 14:50:32 <Elukka> i don't mean to disparage the efforts of opengfx artists; their job was to create something similar to the original graphics 14:51:26 <Terkhen> appe: most train sets shuld support it; 2cc, ukrs, nars, opengfx+ trains... 14:51:53 <appe> ok. just adding the esc basic vector gives me the industry, but doesnt change the train carts. 14:51:57 <Elukka> dbsetxl has an extra grf for ECS support too 14:53:14 <appe> ah, there we are 14:53:16 <appe> thank you :) 15:02:17 <Terkhen> :) 15:12:02 <appe> yet 15:12:05 <appe> im using the 2cc 15:12:16 <appe> what train works with the multiple unit wagon? 15:12:47 <Elukka> multiple units 15:12:55 <Elukka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_unit 15:15:51 <appe> there doesnt seem to be any train available in the same set that can use the wagon? 15:16:18 <appe> ah 15:16:19 <appe> oh! 15:17:16 <appe> crap. 15:19:26 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 15:19:56 <appe> nope, i cant get it to work. 15:21:00 *** Silene [~chatzilla@p5DDA407F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 15:32:08 <appe> http://gyazo.com/1ef073caec490ba5c19511a92fff0959 :DDD 15:33:23 *** xmirakulix [~flo@85-127-111-89.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: xmirakulix] 15:34:38 *** xmirakulix [~anonymous@85-127-111-89.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 15:35:59 <Terkhen> appe: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Vectors 15:39:18 <Elukka> okay. still puzzled by 2cc balance 15:40:01 <Elukka> multiple units are fast, powerful and really really cheap to run 15:40:14 <Elukka> why ever buy a passenger locomotive that costs 10 times more 15:43:18 <Alberth> for its looks? 15:43:53 <Elukka> seems a tad impractical 15:45:37 <Elukka> i do a bunch of things just for looks, but several times more running costs for no increase in performance... 15:46:23 <Elukka> hm. even the multiple unit wagons are much cheaper to run 15:46:34 <MNIM> elukka: did you factor in carrying capacity? 15:46:51 <Elukka> seems to be similar? 15:48:06 <Elukka> actually the multiple units carry more 15:50:25 <Elukka> locomotive hauled train with worse performance carries ~250 passengers at a running cost of ~100k/yr 15:50:39 <Elukka> equal length MU carries about 290 and costs less than 6k/yr to run 15:51:00 <Terkhen> yes, it's a bit crazy 15:51:33 <Elukka> it kind of breaks things for me :( 15:51:40 <Elukka> any other set out there with decent support for FIRS? 15:51:45 <Elukka> kinda boring when everything looks like coal :P 15:52:15 <Terkhen> OpenGFX+ Trains :P 15:52:32 <Alberth> I was going to suggest that too :) 15:53:09 <Terkhen> I don't think that any other major train sets besides 2cc and opengfx+ trains have good sprite support for FIRS 15:53:18 <Terkhen> and 2cc support is already outdated by months 15:54:22 <Elukka> hm. 15:54:31 <appe> hm.. 15:54:41 <Alberth> I have FIRS 0.5.1 if you want :p 15:55:33 <__ln__> at what point does passport control take place on EuroStar? 15:56:48 <Alberth> halfway, and you have to walk back :p 15:57:16 <__ln__> great 15:57:30 <Alberth> quite likely at both sides 15:57:38 <Elukka> it'd be nice if the missing cargo sprite graphic used iron instead of coal 15:57:42 <Elukka> less convenient for development though 15:57:50 <Elukka> but for most cargoes it'd look less aggressively wrong 15:58:19 <Alberth> they use black sheets for covering the cargoes 15:58:29 <Elukka> ha :P 15:58:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-183-047.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:59:18 <Terkhen> Elukka: in nml it is quite simple to use a different default sprite for missing cargos 15:59:24 <Terkhen> I still use coal in opengfx+ road vehicles, though :P 15:59:38 <Terkhen> but since I had no feedback since latest release I'm assuming that it is done :) 15:59:55 <Elukka> i wouldn't have a clue how to do that 15:59:59 <Elukka> i don't even know what nml is! :P 16:00:46 <Terkhen> nml == simpler thing to do newgrfs 16:00:53 <Terkhen> it is what CETS will use IIRC 16:01:05 <Elukka> reminds me i should do some drawing 16:01:09 <Terkhen> now you can suggest to use a better default knowing that it should be simple :P 16:01:23 <Elukka> i will! 16:01:31 <Elukka> i think most cargoes are brown 16:01:35 <Elukka> certainly more are brown than black 16:01:42 <Terkhen> yes 16:02:00 <Terkhen> with brown, you can at least say that the wagon is dark 16:02:19 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 16:02:56 <Elukka> okay, another question.. which train sets besides those mentioned have functional, if not graphical support, for current FIRS? (0.7) 16:03:38 <andythenorth> NARS 2 16:03:40 <andythenorth> UKRS 2 16:03:59 <andythenorth> OpenGFX + trains 16:11:31 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: how important do you think it is to shorten the 4 axle compartment coaches by 1 lu? i'd chalk it up to conflicting sources and be done with it (being built over a long stretch of time by 2 railway companies and all), but if they absolutely have to be shorter i'll do it some time later 16:11:38 <Elukka> if they're okay i'll get the post coach done first 16:11:51 <Elukka> otherwise i'm gonna work on some other wagons or engines for a change 16:15:49 <andythenorth> is it annoying to have two industries name 'Metal..[something]' 16:15:59 <andythenorth> mostly from a mini-map point of view? 16:16:58 <Terkhen> IMO not, it is easier to find them :) 16:17:09 <andythenorth> ok 16:18:54 <Elukka> whatever you do, by god draw them in your style 16:19:05 <Elukka> i honestly think you're among the top ttd artists 16:19:05 <andythenorth> hmm 16:19:23 <andythenorth> my style is 100% copied from Simon Foster 16:19:28 <andythenorth> it's slavish copying 16:19:38 <andythenorth> there is nothing original 16:19:40 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:21 <andythenorth> it's probably borderline a GPL violation 16:20:47 <__ln__> did Simon Foster license his work under GPL? 16:20:53 <andythenorth> nope 16:20:56 <andythenorth> absolutely not 16:24:21 <Elukka> style can't be copyrighted 16:28:57 <__ln__> Elukka: depends 16:29:18 <Elukka> works are copyrighted, but you can't say someone can't emulate your style 16:30:02 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:31 <__ln__> again it depends 16:31:58 <Elukka> in which case could style fall under copyright? 16:32:51 <__ln__> when it's practically the same as the original 16:33:20 <Elukka> the work itself or the just the style? 16:33:33 <__ln__> the work 16:33:45 <Elukka> well that's copying the entire work, not just the styel 16:33:47 <Elukka> style 16:34:18 <__ln__> i'd say the distinction between those two is not as clear as you imply 16:34:57 <andythenorth> the reality is that, analysed as a bitmap, some blocks of pixels will be identical to TTD which is copyright 16:35:18 <Elukka> if i paint an apple and you copy the exact same apple i guess you might be breaking copyright 16:35:26 <Elukka> (though i'm not even sure you would) 16:35:52 <Elukka> if i paint an apple and you paint an orange in the exact same style , even if some brush strokes are identical, you're most certainly not broking copyright 16:35:59 <Elukka> breaking 16:36:38 <Elukka> andy, analyzed at the chemical level many paintings have identical parts :P 16:43:57 <Alberth> not really imho, even batches paint from the same factory can be distinguished from each other 16:44:33 <__ln__> Elukka: do you contribute to the finnish wikipedia? 16:44:51 <Elukka> were ttd not palette-limited, and were there no color limits on computers at all, there would be very slight differences inttd sprites as well 16:44:54 <Elukka> ln, no, why? 16:45:17 <Elukka> all i've done on wiki is fix some easy mistakes a couple times on the english wiki, but i haven't even registered an account 16:45:40 <__ln__> Elukka: your approach and attitude to copyright just resembled theirs. 16:46:20 <Elukka> in which way? 16:47:20 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-136-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:26 <andythenorth> Terkhen: do you know where the industry ID defines are for FIRS? 16:47:41 <andythenorth> they're not in 'defines.pnml' 16:48:15 <__ln__> Elukka: denial of any possibility of copyright infringiment unless it's your own work that's being infringed 16:48:32 <Elukka> whut. 16:48:47 <Elukka> it's just true that style alone is not copyrighted 16:49:10 <Elukka> do you think there could be a copyright violation if i drew an apple and you drew an orange by emulating my style? 16:50:51 <__ln__> Elukka: no, but if you drew an apple asn a ttd sprite, and i drew another apple in your style, then it would be more ambiguous. 16:51:19 <Terkhen> andythenorth: let me check 16:51:27 <Elukka> long as you draw it rather than literally copypasting mine... 16:52:05 <__ln__> Elukka: yes, that's exactly the attitude i'm talking about. 16:52:57 * Pinkbeast detects a giant straw man being used on Elukka 16:53:35 <Terkhen> andythenorth: item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, smithy_forge, 6) <--- the 6 16:53:43 <andythenorth> oh 16:53:43 <Elukka> it might be almost identical to mine due to technical limitations (limited resolution and palette), but unless i could somehow show that it was actually copypasted i wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court 16:53:44 <andythenorth> ok 16:53:49 <andythenorth> so 16:54:01 <Terkhen> I prefer to note them as 0x06 to make them more visible, but we probably didn't check it after the conversion 16:54:02 <andythenorth> to find the list of IDs, I have to read every file :O 16:54:14 <andythenorth> that is awful 16:54:17 <andythenorth> I need to fix that 16:54:17 <Terkhen> a industry_defines.pnml file would make sense 16:54:22 <Elukka> if art was so limited by copyright that something that looks similar would fall afoul of it, it'd be pretty terrible 16:54:23 <__ln__> Elukka: whether it was technically copy-pasted doesn't matter at all 16:54:24 <Terkhen> #define SMITHY_FORGE_ID 0x06 16:54:29 <Terkhen> item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, smithy_forge, SMITHY_FORGE_ID) 16:54:32 <andythenorth> exactly 16:54:46 <andythenorth> this is worthwhile refactoring, even though FIRS industries are mostly 'done' 16:54:47 <Elukka> sure it does 16:54:54 <Elukka> if it's copypasted you're stealing mine, if you draw it it's yours 16:55:03 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I agree :) 16:55:20 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I wonder if it can just be copied from the nfo version :D :P 16:55:28 <andythenorth> I think it probably can 16:55:29 <Elukka> if i take a photograph and you use it as reference for a drawing, you still own the copyright to your drawing 16:55:31 <Terkhen> it probably can be adapted 16:55:47 <Terkhen> change the extension, add the gpl header if it is missing and so on 16:55:58 <andythenorth> I'll do it 16:56:13 <Terkhen> ok :) 16:56:18 <__ln__> Elukka: and if i paint a painting and you take a photograpth, .... 16:56:37 <Elukka> of the painting? 16:56:41 <__ln__> yes 16:56:53 <Elukka> hmm. i believe that would count as a reproduction of the painting 16:57:00 <Elukka> i couldn't claim the painting being photographed is mine 16:58:03 <__ln__> correct 16:58:22 <Sacro> depends how much effort went into the photo 16:58:29 <Sacro> if there was composition and lighting and such... 16:59:25 <Elukka> yeah, that'd probably count as an original work 16:59:36 <Elukka> or a derivative maybe? 17:00:12 <Elukka> but ln, it doesn't change that if i draw a ttd apple and you draw a similar apple, no copyright is being broken 17:01:55 <__ln__> Elukka: if i intensively look at the apple you drew and draw my own within the same very limited constraints (resolution, palette), then i wouldn't be to confident a court wouldn't decide i am breaking the copyright. 17:02:05 <Elukka> you drawing the same subject as me in the same medium is still an original work 17:02:22 <Elukka> how would either of us show that you did or didn't look at my apple? 17:03:44 <Elukka> in theory, i suppose, you would indeed be infringing copyright in that case 17:03:46 <Elukka> in practice it's irrelevant 17:03:51 <__ln__> if i don't deny it 17:04:07 <Elukka> well then they might judge against you 17:04:34 <__ln__> yes, my point exactly 17:05:21 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it's not as easy as I thought :( 17:05:26 <andythenorth> nml doesn't use hex? 17:06:22 <Terkhen> you can use 0x06 17:06:32 <Terkhen> but by default it uses dec 17:06:47 <Elukka> i guess we are in agreement then 17:07:08 <Elukka> simply drawing a similar ttd apple without staring intensely at mine clearly wouldn't be copyright infringement though 17:07:15 <Elukka> Pinkbeast: have you had a chance to try ts2012 yet? 17:07:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:07:44 * SpComb patents TTD apples 17:08:07 * Terkhen patents them in a different country under a slightly different name, and sues 17:08:47 <Elukka> hum. the most recent version of NARS2 is from 2009, but it still works with recent FIRS? 17:08:53 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Yes... new graphics engine doesn't work at all, old one runs still more like a drain. It may have to work until I upgrade rei 17:09:01 <Pinkbeast> *wait 17:09:14 <Elukka> that's unfortunate 17:09:18 <Elukka> mine works way worse than it should too 17:09:33 <Elukka> it looks nice but it's not very playable with the new engine 17:09:35 <Elukka> feels like trainz :P 17:09:48 <Pinkbeast> I gather shadows are the killer with the new engine, if you turn them off it's better. 17:10:12 <Pinkbeast> If the old one was "the same but with cab roll" I'd be happy, but the frame rate's gone from tolerable to intolerable in places 17:10:23 <Pinkbeast> I was going to upgrade rei anyway, so it's not the end of the world. 17:10:55 <Elukka> it runs badly on absolute minimum setings 17:10:57 <Elukka> settings 17:11:19 <Elukka> there's people with absolute top of the line ridiculously expensive computers who have it run terribly too 17:11:23 <Elukka> i hope they patch it soon 17:11:29 <Pinkbeast> Well, likewise. We shall see. 17:11:37 <Pinkbeast> Otherwise I guess it's back to OpenBVE :-) 17:12:58 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B655EE.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 17:16:54 <andythenorth> Elukka: NARS 2 works fine with FIRS 17:17:01 <andythenorth> I'm playing a game at the moment with it 17:17:04 <Elukka> interesting 17:23:39 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B655EE.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 17:32:38 * andythenorth is bored of copy paste 17:34:46 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:35:06 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 17:35:22 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.69] has joined #openttd 17:40:24 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:34 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22959 /trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt: 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 17:46:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:46:55 *** xmirakulix [~anonymous@85-127-111-89.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: xmirakulix] 17:47:16 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:17 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:48:17 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:52:27 <Elukka> http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=35699/Arctic_Eyeshadow_Duo/NARS/Eye_Shadow 17:52:30 <Elukka> well that wasn't what i was looking for 17:55:30 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:56:45 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:23 * andythenorth has tweaked FIRS metal chain 18:02:34 <Terkhen> tweaked how? 18:03:35 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:56 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:05:21 <andythenorth> added a new industry, renamed Foundry to Workshop to be a little more accurate 18:05:27 <andythenorth> also added acceptance of chemicals 18:05:44 <andythenorth> chemicals are very widely used in FIRS :) 18:06:15 <andythenorth> the new industry is Metal Fab. Plant 18:06:17 <Terkhen> hmm... let's see 18:06:28 <andythenorth> produces building materials, and in future, auto parts 18:07:09 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:02 * andythenorth ponders intro date for metal fab plant 18:09:11 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:09 <andythenorth> he 18:11:15 <andythenorth> the minimap is quite insane for FIRS :D 18:11:21 <andythenorth> 49 industry types 18:12:01 <Terkhen> andythenorth: metal fabrication plant and metal workshop use the same minimap colour 18:12:07 <andythenorth> yup 18:12:11 <Terkhen> also, I'm not sure if having them accept exactly the same cargos is a good idea 18:12:16 <andythenorth> I wondered that 18:12:19 <andythenorth> but it's kind of fine 18:12:21 <Alberth> limit is 64 industries iirc 18:12:42 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if industries had 3 outputs, there would only be 1 type here :P 18:12:43 <Terkhen> they feel too similar (even when ignoring that they are currently using the same sprites :P) 18:13:02 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:03 <andythenorth> they are pretty similar 18:13:06 <andythenorth> I'm open to suggestions 18:13:17 <andythenorth> this is basically a side effect of splitting goods into more categories 18:13:31 <andythenorth> although I didn't add it for that reason :) 18:13:44 <Terkhen> IMO either one of them should change chemicals for something else 18:13:56 <andythenorth> have a look, see what you think 18:14:01 <andythenorth> they could just use only metal 18:14:03 <Terkhen> yes, I'm checking it now :) 18:14:10 <Terkhen> no, using two input cargos is fine 18:14:13 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_8_release 18:17:21 <andythenorth> Terkhen: patch the game for 3 output cargos, I'll revert the new industry out of FIRS :D 18:18:09 <Terkhen> I'm fine with them being two industries 18:18:14 <Terkhen> but they shouldn't be so similar 18:18:26 <andythenorth> find any other options? 18:18:30 <andythenorth> could cut chemicals from one 18:18:35 <Terkhen> nope 18:18:49 <Terkhen> ask in the forums, I'm not that good at thinking chains :P 18:19:10 <andythenorth> I rely on Eddi|zuHause2 - and he already made his suggestion (factory) 18:24:40 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:47 <Terkhen> what does that do? 18:28:04 <andythenorth> metal + mnsp -> goods 18:29:05 <andythenorth> other ideas 18:29:11 <andythenorth> introduce 'tin' cargo 18:29:15 <andythenorth> tin -> metal works 18:29:21 <andythenorth> introduce 'paint' cargo 18:29:37 <andythenorth> chemicals -> paint -> metal works 18:29:48 <andythenorth> paint -> builders yard also 18:30:18 <Terkhen> confusing :) 18:30:32 <Terkhen> sounds like stuff for economies 18:30:51 <Terkhen> I'm thinking that maybe the new metal building could replace the old one in a "building" economy, or in less industry heavy economies 18:31:44 <andythenorth> the fab plant is definitely intended to produce auto parts in a future economy 18:31:57 <andythenorth> right now I added it because metal is under-represented in the main economy 18:32:03 <andythenorth> chemicals could stay or be removed 18:32:07 <andythenorth> from that industry 18:32:37 <Terkhen> time for dinner, bbl 18:32:47 <andythenorth> enjoy 18:33:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:35:06 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:48 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:40:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:41:11 <andythenorth> he 18:41:14 <andythenorth> rivers are so stupid :) 18:41:25 <andythenorth> I can just build whatever I want over them 18:41:36 <andythenorth> I guess bulldoze = culvert 18:43:52 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:09:08 <Terkhen> andythenorth: use a basecost newgrf 19:09:28 <andythenorth> it's more that I wonder where the river goes when I bulldoze 1 tile of it :) 19:17:37 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.189.228] has joined #openttd 19:28:04 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:28:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:29:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BADF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:53 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:34:54 * andythenorth is still puzzled 19:35:06 <andythenorth> compare FIRS textile mill + original ttd paper mill 19:35:13 <andythenorth> identical style imo 19:35:42 <Alberth> let me find some pictures first 19:36:35 <andythenorth> if anything, original version is more detailed 19:36:50 *** geheimdienst [~hk@p4FC95BAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:40 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:55 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:42:09 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:42:47 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:37 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:15 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:49:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:50:21 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:51:11 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/mills.png light/dark differences are much bigger with textile (which I like btw) 19:51:17 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:33 <Alberth> also, you have thicker 'circles' around the chimney, with bigger colour differences 19:53:31 <Alberth> your buildings have sharper edges at least compared to original industries 19:53:43 <Alberth> houses may be different 19:55:20 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:17 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:59 <Alberth> updated the image with original TTDX 20:02:28 <Alberth> original is closer to your style, but still different in the way I described imho 20:05:47 <Alberth> look at your lighter rooftop walls, eg 20:06:08 <Alberth> andythenorth: ^ 20:06:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: that's an old FIRS 20:06:31 <andythenorth> :) 20:06:33 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/ttd-v-firs.png 20:07:20 <Alberth> lies 20:07:26 <andythenorth> :P 20:07:39 <Alberth> it's 0.6.5-beta-3 20:07:50 <andythenorth> aaaaancient 20:08:09 <andythenorth> I told that 0.7.x has about 250 improvements or so on 0.6.x 20:09:45 <andythenorth> :) 20:09:48 <Alberth> :) 20:10:03 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:10:04 <Alberth> new mill is very close to original style imho 20:10:23 <andythenorth> it's almost a pixel-by-pixel clone :P 20:10:38 <andythenorth> I did draw by hand, but with a very magnified original nearby :P 20:11:18 <andythenorth> Elukka: ^^ 20:13:04 * Alberth must get used to the new style 20:13:42 <Alberth> they blend in with the original very well 20:14:15 * andythenorth hopes so ;) 20:18:52 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:19 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 20:40:55 * andythenorth wonders 20:41:12 <andythenorth> can ships be taught to prefer drive side when a waterway is >1 tile 20:42:57 <Elukka> hmm... one thing that makes them better than the originals in my opinion is the individual tiles and their arrangement 20:43:13 <Elukka> hey, andy, might i suggest reducing the running costs of crawlers in HEQS a tad? 20:43:37 <andythenorth> maybe 20:43:45 <Elukka> constantly running at capacity on a 20 tile route and can't make a profit 20:43:47 <andythenorth> they're kind of pointless eye candy anyway 20:43:55 <Elukka> it'd be nice if they were more useful 20:44:10 <Elukka> i'd just give them low running costs 20:45:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:50:01 <andythenorth> Elukka: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3093 20:50:50 <Elukka> :) 20:51:04 * andythenorth -> bed 20:51:08 <andythenorth> good night 20:51:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-144-142-157.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:58:25 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:03:18 <Terkhen> good night 21:29:38 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:45:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:42 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:21 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 21:59:49 <__ln__> is there some preferred place to find scientific articles about computer science, written in german? (other than the obvious scholar.google) 22:00:51 <peter1138> /dev/null 22:03:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:12:05 <__ln__> peter1138: it's not very readable. 22:13:12 <peter1138> neither is german 22:14:29 <planetmaker> http://www.gi.de/service/digitale-bibliotheken/io-port.html <-- maybe there, __ln__ 22:14:33 <planetmaker> but I don't know 22:14:46 <Progman> heise.de? 22:16:18 <planetmaker> certainly. But I'd not call it "scientific articles" mostly 22:16:37 <planetmaker> though they're a high-quality publisher 22:17:54 <__ln__> thanks, pm and Pm 22:18:07 <planetmaker> :-D 22:19:38 <__ln__> i'm searching for articles about software localization, so there's a particularly good reason to expect such could have been written in non-english. 22:19:52 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 22:22:25 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-224-56.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:26:58 <frosch123> cs papers are always written in english 22:27:02 <frosch123> same as for math 22:27:39 <frosch123> you might only be able to find diploma theses or so in german 22:28:39 <valhalla1w> frosch123: not in france 22:28:53 <valhalla1w> but in germany, you're probably right 22:29:17 <planetmaker> in real science also french certainly write English 22:29:28 <valhalla1w> not their PhD theses 22:29:33 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw 22:29:33 <planetmaker> yeah, well 22:29:42 <valhallasw> of course, published articles are still in English 22:29:56 <valhallasw> although I believe there are still a few French journals around 22:30:08 <frosch123> here phd are written in german as well 22:30:16 <planetmaker> we were talking about articles. not thesises 22:30:25 * planetmaker writes in English 22:31:01 <frosch123> though there might be quite some percentage of cs phds written in english 22:31:47 <frosch123> but that is hard to tell for me, as there was quite a high percentage of foreign guys writing cs phds at my university 22:33:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:34:14 <valhallasw> the Comptes rendus de l'Académie des sciences are still pretty much in french, though 22:36:32 <valhallasw> (although they publish on natural sciences and not on math/cs) 22:37:36 <__ln__> did Dijkstra write (any significant) things in dutch? 22:38:02 <__ln__> at least P and V are not english. 22:38:47 <valhallasw> I don't think there is much scientific literature in dutch, really 22:39:15 <valhallasw> or, well, for the natural sciences and math etc 22:39:28 <valhallasw> for the social sciences I can imagine there is some 22:40:00 <valhallasw> but for physics and math, most would be in german/french (early 1900s) / english 22:40:45 <__ln__> /chinese (late 00s) 22:41:19 <valhallasw> I meant publications from NL, specifically 22:41:31 <__ln__> yes, me too 22:41:40 <__ln__> predicting the future 22:41:48 <valhallasw> the 00s have passed already ;-) 22:42:15 <__ln__> first century of the 2000s 22:42:23 <valhallasw> http://scholar.google.fr/scholar?hl=en&q=edsger+dijkstra+language%3Adutch&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=&as_vis=0 22:42:55 <valhallasw> but these are mainly lectures, I think 22:42:57 <valhallasw> http://oai.cwi.nl/oai/asset/7390/7390A.pdf 22:43:16 <planetmaker> good night 22:44:26 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:44:32 <__ln__> "Kortste bomen uit een graph" like .. "Shortest trees from a graph"?? 22:44:46 <valhallasw> yes 22:44:52 <valhallasw> shortest path algorithm 22:46:29 <__ln__> well that's pretty significant 22:46:29 <valhallasw> "Ein algol-60-uebersetzer fuer die x1 : (zeitschrift fuer moderne rechentechnik und automation m.t.w., _8(1961), p 54-56, p 115-119) (1961)Open access" 22:46:38 <valhallasw> __ln__: it's just the text from a lecture 22:46:40 <valhallasw> it's not the article 22:46:48 <__ln__> sad 22:48:05 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:50:26 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:50:58 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:59 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:56:12 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:07 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has quit [Quit: Doei!] 23:00:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:56 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:59 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:24:20 <Wolf01> 'night 23:24:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:27:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff81e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:35 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-247-68.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:39 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:53:29 <__ln__> why so silent?