Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:09:38 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:01 <Terkhen> good night 00:16:19 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:16:32 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 00:27:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-003-018.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:28:29 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-135.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:42:40 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.46.117] has left #openttd [] 00:46:45 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:46:54 <Nat_as> you guys 00:46:58 <Nat_as> made me late for class 00:47:47 <__ln__> nobody has classes at midnight 00:47:58 <Nat_as> it's 4pm for me 00:48:16 <Nat_as> and it was 1:30 when I had my class 00:48:51 <Nat_as> man, "Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only" are the best rules Ever 00:50:53 <planetmaker> you'll laugh how often they're necessary to be pointed out ;-) 00:53:57 <Nat_as> I believe you. 00:54:09 <Nat_as> more than Believe the using MS paint to write letters 00:54:46 <Nat_as> man, I have to start the WHOLE MAP AGGAIN 00:54:47 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:54:47 <Nat_as> :C 00:58:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 01:01:25 <Nat_as> am I the only one who always turns off "Towns can build roads"? 01:04:51 <Nat_as> because fuck town 01:04:53 <Nat_as> towns 01:10:54 <DabuYu> Nat_as: that means that towns don't grow otherwise, if you don't maintain it themselves? 01:11:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:16 <DabuYu> towns do should grow in a better way (like prefering square grids) than they do now :) 01:11:29 <Nat_as> I build roads for them 01:11:37 <Nat_as> around my stations 01:11:46 <DabuYu> oh i sometimes do that too, but there's so many towns around the map 01:11:48 <Nat_as> growing towns is like growing bonsai. 01:11:53 <DabuYu> lol 01:11:58 <Nat_as> well only the towns connected to your network matter 01:12:04 <DabuYu> of course 01:15:42 <Nat_as> also depeding on the map, they are also the only ones that grow 01:19:30 <Nat_as> I don't think perfect squares are important, but it should try to make some effort at forming city blocks 01:19:34 <Nat_as> and not going crazy 01:19:46 <Nat_as> maybe a list of acceptable shapes 01:20:27 <Nat_as> roads should not be next to each other, and should also try to avoid gaps wider than 4x4 because then nothing will be built inside the hole 01:38:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:39:15 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:42:17 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-80-100.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:13:40 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:14:57 *** brendan10211 [~brendan10@cpe-069-134-169-113.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:17:19 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:17:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:38 *** brendan10211 [~brendan10@cpe-069-134-169-113.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:26:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:26:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:04 <Nat_as> hail lord pixall 02:27:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:28:19 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:28:19 *** Guest2680 is now known as Mark 02:29:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:29:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:32:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:32:35 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:34:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:35:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:36:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:38:35 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 02:38:36 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:43 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 02:39:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:39:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:40:54 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 02:44:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:44:50 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:44:58 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 02:47:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:48:22 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 02:48:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:49:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:50:06 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:54:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:55:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 02:55:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:56:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 02:56:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 03:00:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:01:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 03:02:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 03:06:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:09:00 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:09:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:13:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 03:16:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [] 03:17:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 03:20:52 <Nat_as> do stations have to be continuious for a tram to unload in it? 03:20:57 <Nat_as> does it have to cover the entire lenght? 03:21:02 <Nat_as> for the longer cargo trams 03:21:14 <Nat_as> and long trucks in general I guess. 03:21:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5da:b0f7:bbbd:71d4] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:23:49 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:24:14 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has joined #openttd 03:29:47 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:30:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:49 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:31:59 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 03:37:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:50:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:04:42 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:04:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:48 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:09:37 *** rickytaylor26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 04:10:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:10:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:30 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:19:18 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e01bad5.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:26:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f234c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:05 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:36 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:31:28 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e01bad5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:32:00 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:39:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:43 <DabuYu> Nat_as: late reply, but no, it's not necessary - but the unloading process goes faster when it's the right length (at least for trains it does) 04:40:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:45:20 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:45:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 04:50:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:24:12 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 05:24:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:18 <Nat_as> do prices of tunnels ever change? 05:24:22 <Nat_as> like become cheaper? 05:24:27 <Nat_as> as time progresses? 05:24:34 <Nat_as> because I don't remember them this expensive. 05:25:22 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:27:43 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:27:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:49 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 05:33:01 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:33:21 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 05:34:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:34:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:50 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:36:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:41:18 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 05:44:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:44:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:21 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 05:50:22 *** Mark is now known as Guest2759 05:50:23 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 05:56:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 05:56:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:57:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 05:58:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-137.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:58:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:01:58 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:02:02 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:02:22 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 06:04:43 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-27-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:07:24 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-2-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:10:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-137.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:10:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:11:37 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 06:14:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-202-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:14:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:17:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:40 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-2-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:25:06 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:25:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:11 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 06:29:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:29:56 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:45:17 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:51:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:53:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:57:49 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:57:49 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:00:06 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:06:29 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:06:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:15:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-54-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:17:35 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:17:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-202-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:20:20 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 07:25:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:25:40 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:16 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:35 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:37:47 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:37:47 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:15 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 07:49:20 <Nat_as> hmm 07:49:49 <Nat_as> what if there was snow plows in arctic maps 07:49:50 <Nat_as> http://images.4chan.org/k/src/1329375636066.jpg 07:50:08 <Nat_as> that were nessary above the snow line to prevent trains from slowing down. 07:50:38 <peter1138> there are snow plows in some newgrf sets 07:51:26 <peter1138> *plough 07:51:50 <Nat_as> do they have a mechanical effect or is it just cosmetic? 07:51:55 <peter1138> cosmetic probably 07:51:59 <Nat_as> I like it when things like cabooses have effects 07:52:29 <Nat_as> like freight trains need them unless the cars have continuous brakes. 07:52:41 <Nat_as> or passinger trains need an engine with a steam heat unit. 07:56:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:56:02 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:27 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.208] has joined #openttd 07:57:30 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.208] has quit [] 07:59:23 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:01:16 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:14:07 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:17:20 <Nat_as> http://www.3k-modellbau.com/images/Orient%20Express%20%28kompletter%20Zug%29.jpg 08:17:22 <Nat_as> I want this 08:17:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:26 <Nat_as> somebody make a newgrif of it 08:17:30 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:17:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:19:53 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 08:30:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:33:56 <Nat_as> Hey andythenorth 08:33:59 <Nat_as> you missed this 08:34:02 <Nat_as> http://www.3k-modellbau.com/images/Orient%20Express%20%28kompletter%20Zug%29.jpg 08:40:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.163.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:41:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:53:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:56:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:58:51 <peter1138> somebody(tm) 08:59:25 <peter1138> it appears to be quite massive 09:06:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:12:01 <Nat_as> yes 09:12:41 <Nat_as> although the centennial and big boy are only .5 cars long in the original sets so your mileage may vary. 09:13:13 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 09:13:20 <Nat_as> I'd just make this a 4 car long engine that can only carry high capacity passenger and mail cars. 09:13:38 <Nat_as> three front cars, and one tail car are part of the engine. 09:13:47 <Nat_as> and you add in doublestack cars in the middle. 09:25:25 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:26:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 09:30:46 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:36 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:10 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:36:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:38:57 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:21 <dihedral> greetings 09:47:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:27 <Nat_as> hi 09:48:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:49:54 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120210023155]] 09:49:55 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:51:38 * dihedral scrolls through bugs. in the hope to find something to do ^^ 09:53:16 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:00:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:02:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:03:46 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:03:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:12:50 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:15:45 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:24:50 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:24:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:28 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:37:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:41 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:45:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:47:42 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:58:47 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:59:48 <dihedral> TrueBrain, is there an api available to the openttd website? e.g. authentication? 11:02:02 <TrueBrain> API for news, yes, RSS; API for WT3, yes, Frontend uses it. API for bugs, yes, RSS. And a few more of those. Authentication, of course not. We are not an Signon Broker :) 11:02:34 <dihedral> :-P 11:02:55 <dihedral> i was wondering if i could create a thingy for the admin port that would authenticate against openttd accounts ^^ 11:03:21 <dihedral> via SOAP... via SOAP... :-P 11:03:36 <TrueBrain> I was about to comment you can of course via the most obvious way in front of you 11:03:41 <TrueBrain> but via SOAP: never 11:04:03 <dihedral> sending a post request :-P 11:04:22 <TrueBrain> just make a HTTP POST, yes :P But .. that I would not really appreciate 11:04:25 <TrueBrain> for the obvious reasons 11:04:47 <peter1138> dihedral gets all our passwords 11:04:48 <peter1138> nice one 11:04:49 <TrueBrain> in regards to logins on a server, I have some drafts to make a trusted chain, but .. hmm .. dont seem to have the time to implement any of it 11:05:16 <dihedral> i would not start doing posts to the server, which is why i asked for an api ;-) 11:05:20 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and for exactly that reason I would dsadvise anyone from using such login 'portal's :D 11:05:23 <dihedral> else i would have just gone ahead ^^ 11:05:58 <TrueBrain> it all doesnt really matter; how ever we play broker, we cannot give any promises you (or anyone else) doesnt .. 'use' the password for other goals 11:06:13 <Rhamphoryncus> TrueBrain: you admin the website? Does that include the wiki? 11:06:13 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:06:21 <dihedral> who says i need to send username and password? i could simply ask "is this ip authenticated" :-P 11:06:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:30 <TrueBrain> if anything, the client has to contact our server directly, get a token back, with which you can do validation 11:06:57 <TrueBrain> dihedral: too many people are behind the same IP 11:07:02 <TrueBrain> doesnt really give any form of trust 11:07:03 <dihedral> sadly 11:07:36 <TrueBrain> @topic 4 11:07:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: topic [<channel>] 11:07:40 <TrueBrain> @topic #openttd 4 11:07:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: topic [<channel>] 11:07:41 <TrueBrain> hmm 11:07:46 <TrueBrain> how does that crappy thing work? 11:07:47 <dihedral> @topic get 4 11:07:47 <DorpsGek> dihedral: 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever 11:07:57 <TrueBrain> @topic get 3 11:07:57 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Don't ask to ask, just ask 11:07:57 <dihedral> ;-) 11:08:00 <TrueBrain> Rhamphoryncus: ^^ 11:08:02 <TrueBrain> tnx dihedral 11:08:30 <dihedral> you're welcome 11:08:53 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, turns out asking first is sometimes a good idea. Otherwise I'd just repeat the same annoying every couple hours :P 11:09:00 <dihedral> would you (want to) implement that directly into openttd 11:09:11 <TrueBrain> dihedral: if anything, it is required, in my opinion 11:09:18 <dihedral> Rhamphoryncus, only untill you get the first kick :-P 11:09:19 <TrueBrain> I dont see another way without leaving us open to a shitton of abuse :P 11:09:57 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: which only makes me that much more right in asking first. Don't ask a question unless you expect someone can answer. 11:10:23 <dihedral> no - ask once, if of interest someone will answer* 11:10:26 <dihedral> *in due time 11:10:27 <TrueBrain> but dont except anyone can answer, without asking the question 11:10:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Anyway, thumbnail files are often much, much larger than the original image. Known issue? 11:10:52 <dihedral> too much meta data 11:10:52 <TrueBrain> http://bugs.openttd.org/ , Website section? Dunno .. 11:10:54 <dihedral> :-P 11:10:57 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: my experience here is to the contrary 11:11:06 <dihedral> ... 11:11:21 * dihedral was not being serious 11:11:34 <Rhamphoryncus> ah 11:11:46 <dihedral> TrueBrain, what about using s/mime certs? :-P 11:12:21 <TrueBrain> with NoGo the conversation pretty quickly ended up on servers which keep score 11:12:24 <TrueBrain> so you can compare etc 11:12:34 <TrueBrain> with that the reaslisation came that only works if you can uniquely identify people 11:12:45 <TrueBrain> I once tried it with 'uniqueid' in openttd.cfg, but that was a ... huge failure :P 11:12:54 <TrueBrain> as people copy their config WAY too much :P 11:13:21 <TrueBrain> so only other sane solution I could think off, was a centralized authentication with validation tokens for NoGo scripts to handle (which of course gets offloaded to the admin port) 11:13:28 <dihedral> yes, but checking back with the master server could say if 'a' client is already online with that s/mime cert 11:13:48 <TrueBrain> too much bookkeeping 11:13:56 <dihedral> think so? 11:14:06 <dihedral> how so? 11:14:13 <TrueBrain> well, I guess it depends 11:14:21 <TrueBrain> I guess it is the same as a validation token 11:14:25 <TrueBrain> which have to be stored either way 11:14:29 <dihedral> aye 11:14:37 <dihedral> but you already have a backend 11:14:50 <TrueBrain> but if you are only interested in clients 11:14:52 <TrueBrain> you already know that 11:15:00 <TrueBrain> I assume you want some kind of trust based on the name of that client 11:15:11 <dihedral> but you are interested in knowing the client ;-) 11:15:32 <dihedral> and if you get the feedback of - this cert is being used on 2 other servers ... 11:15:45 <dihedral> rather 1 other server, do not allow the connection 11:16:02 <TrueBrain> and that part is a bit too much bookkeeping :P 11:16:10 <TrueBrain> I was thinking a lot more simpler :) 11:16:17 <dihedral> it's a mysql db entry - hash -> server 11:16:19 <TrueBrain> as I dont care if you are logged in to 12 servers :P 11:16:32 <Rubidium> dihedral: maybe you can finish joan and friends to become a working replacement for AP(+)? 11:16:37 <dihedral> but then i create an account and share it with 12 others 11:16:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, :-) 11:16:57 <dihedral> i am already working on that ;-) 11:17:00 <TrueBrain> dihedral: against our TOS :P 11:17:02 <peter1138> is a n-bit crypto key that starts with a 0 bit an n-bit key or an (n-1)-bit key? 11:17:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:17:26 <dihedral> TrueBrain, but how would you check up on that without a bit of bookkeeping 11:17:42 <TrueBrain> not. that is the point 11:18:18 <TrueBrain> sounds like a pain in the tits if you can only be logged in to 1 server 11:18:29 <dihedral> what if that depends on the server? 11:18:34 <TrueBrain> of course if you know which client is connected, you can deny access to a client in a cluster of servers 11:18:44 <TrueBrain> but that is up to an admin script; not from the centralized point of view 11:19:04 <TrueBrain> all you as admin script want to know is: is this client really who he says he is 11:19:22 <TrueBrain> a simple 0/1 :) 11:20:03 <dihedral> i would accept a 0-255, 0 false, 1 - you are the first server, 2 you are the second server ... 11:20:14 <TrueBrain> and again, that is too much bookkeeping 11:20:21 <TrueBrain> it is not our job, as openttd.org, to keep track of that 11:20:25 <TrueBrain> that is your job, as admin script 11:20:33 <dihedral> ok :-) 11:20:37 <dihedral> can be done ^^ 11:20:48 <TrueBrain> exactly 11:21:08 <dihedral> however only if a unique id is then sent to the admin script 11:21:10 <TrueBrain> and it ensures us that things can only go wrong on a cluster of servers, as in .. hmm .. how to say this delecate without offending any possible loggers .. :P 11:21:21 <TrueBrain> if you decide in your cluster of servers to only allow to be logged in to 1 server 11:21:23 <TrueBrain> that is fine 11:21:23 <dihedral> :-D 11:21:32 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:32 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:33 <TrueBrain> but dont fuck a client over by not allowing him to login to another cluster of servers :) 11:21:38 <TrueBrain> that is a bit the mean idea :) 11:21:49 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has quit [] 11:23:03 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:23:04 *** George is now known as Guest2793 11:23:04 *** George|2 is now known as George 11:23:45 <TrueBrain> anyway, doing the validation of a client is kinda hard :) 11:23:52 <TrueBrain> so many options and posibilities 11:24:02 <TrueBrain> do you ask for a username / password, and change the nickname to the username? 11:24:07 <TrueBrain> do you allow custom nicknames? 11:24:18 <TrueBrain> does our website give you a token you use as validation of your account? (as client) 11:26:05 <TrueBrain> or, in reverse, does the server give you a token you have to enter in our website to allow that server access to validate you? 11:26:12 <dihedral> i would not tamper with the chosen username, but i would set a username stored in the token / cert in order for admins to see, or displayed in the clients command 11:26:29 <dihedral> that method would be nice, but too slow 11:26:42 <dihedral> unless openttd does that itself 11:27:06 <dihedral> or ;-) 11:28:24 <dihedral> client joins server, client informs ottd of the server it is joining, ottd sends ack to server 11:28:43 <dihedral> of course only if the server is known to ottd 11:28:58 <TrueBrain> what my optimal form is: when you go to multiplayer, you can select 2 modes: authenticated servers, and non-authenticated servers. For the first, you get a login button, where you enter your username + password, and allows you to join both authenticated and non-authenticated. The last works with a nickname only. 11:29:12 <TrueBrain> but that is kinda a huge step for OpenTTD 11:30:17 <TrueBrain> dihedral: how it is done on a technical level is not really in order here. The question is much more: how do you present it to the client 11:31:07 <TrueBrain> authenticated servers can have a few perks, like a company can lock down immediatly, and that you can add usernames to a whitelist, for example 11:31:16 <TrueBrain> which, to just talk crazy, can be configured on openttd.org 11:31:25 <TrueBrain> (I am just being silly here and thinking out loud, mind you) 11:32:02 <dihedral> why would it be a too huge step for ottd? 11:32:16 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:33 <TrueBrain> gradial changes are always easier :) 11:33:20 <dihedral> an extra login button on the main menu 11:33:21 <dihedral> :-P 11:33:27 <peter1138> all good fun when your auth server goes down and you can longer play 11:33:31 <TrueBrain> what I just suggested is not only an extra button :) 11:33:41 <dihedral> + console commands, so it could be scripted with the autostart script 11:33:56 <TrueBrain> peter1138: as much harm as the MSU goes down, I imagine 11:34:05 <TrueBrain> which .. happen to be on the same server 11:34:07 <dihedral> aye 11:34:11 <peter1138> true 11:34:32 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Just implement OAuth! 11:34:59 <dihedral> blathijs, but that does not stop people from having tons of accounts ;-) 11:35:01 <blathijs> (though that's more web-focused..) 11:35:12 <dihedral> this way TrueBrain has to give away the account details manually :-D 11:35:13 <TrueBrain> and doesnt really give help to how to present it to the client, does it? :) 11:35:31 <dihedral> why would the client be that much affected 11:35:45 <dihedral> a login button, a popup window with username / password would be all the client gets to notice 11:36:04 <dihedral> an extra padlock with open / closed symbol in the server list ... 11:36:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:36:33 <blathijs> dihedral: Not sure why you want to stop people from having a ton of accounts, couldn't find the reason in my backlog (though I didn't read supercarefully) 11:36:41 <dihedral> i would not change anything regarding the companies in the game 11:37:03 <dihedral> blathijs, the backlog would probably go back a few years for this topic ;-) 11:37:21 <dihedral> it's to prevent those causing trouble to constantly join with new accounts 11:37:42 <TrueBrain> just use a karma system for that 11:37:44 <blathijs> Ah, it's about banning :-) 11:37:56 <dihedral> it's about knowing who joins 11:37:59 <blathijs> I thought it was about using your openttd.org account to administrate a server 11:38:04 <TrueBrain> well, I was more talking about statistics, but he :) 11:38:13 <TrueBrain> blathijs: hmm, that is a nice one too :P 11:38:20 <dihedral> user tracking ;-) 11:38:26 <dihedral> and then selling the data to .... 11:38:33 <dihedral> :-P 11:39:12 <dihedral> i was getting tons of ad requests to one of my webservers, where the query included the size of the img to use, etc. 11:39:34 <dihedral> i was about to add an image of openttd 11:39:47 <dihedral> so they all place an openttd ad banner on their pages 11:40:14 <TrueBrain> afk a few, roommate needs help 11:40:15 <dihedral> however i decided to go for a rewrite rule wich forwarded them to a php script which gave a 404 and added the source ip to the iptables list with -j DROP ^^ 11:42:34 <blathijs> :-) 11:42:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:38 <dihedral> 77 hosts gathered so far ^^ 11:45:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 11:47:50 <Arafangion> dihedral: A very significant number! 11:48:42 <dihedral> 77 hosts requesting an image with every request those severs get is not a small number 11:48:52 <dihedral> i had something like an extra 45GB of traffic in 2 days 11:49:24 <dihedral> even though all requests ran into a 404 11:49:32 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: image that says "This image is requested from the wrong site. Here's some rick astley instead." 11:49:33 <dihedral> (before i added the script) 11:49:42 <dihedral> hehe 11:50:03 <dihedral> that would have been even more traffic for me ^^ 11:50:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Ouch, okay, drop rule wins on that one 11:50:32 <dihedral> not that i am concerned about the traffic, but on that server i prefer having less activity than too much 11:50:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Could make 1% produce the image instead :D 11:51:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:51:53 <Rhamphoryncus> Or "This html-monkey is incompetent, got the image host wrong, and probably sleeps with their mother." 11:53:09 <dihedral> i could just sell ad space :-P 11:53:46 <Rhamphoryncus> LOL 11:54:35 <Xaroth> return a 302 redirecting them to goatse ? 11:54:37 <blathijs> dihedral: Or doe a 301 redirect to some big image on their own site ;-p 11:55:08 <Arafangion> Nah, have it redirect to some large file on a *different* site! 11:55:13 <dihedral> a 301 was not working - the script must have been quite bad as the request still ran onto my ip 11:55:25 <dihedral> i tried to redirect them to google :-P 11:55:43 <TrueBrain> I would never permaban such IPs, openttd.org doesnt have any list of such kind, no, not at all 11:56:28 <TrueBrain> just tearpit those IPs, just because it can be done 11:56:40 <dihedral> tearpit? 11:56:45 <TrueBrain> TCP default timeout is 480 seconds, so .. 11:56:56 <TrueBrain> accept the connection, ack it, and let it sit there 11:57:01 <dihedral> lol 11:57:06 <TrueBrain> (close it on your side without RST) 11:57:16 <TrueBrain> so their side builds up a shitload of 'open' connections 11:57:23 <TrueBrain> should teach them not to be rude 11:58:04 <TrueBrain> that is how I deal with email spammers too 11:58:42 <TrueBrain> abusing the nature of TCP I guess 12:00:51 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-19-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:00:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:02:59 <TrueBrain> anyway, dihedral, the best solution I can think off as a quick solution would be if the adminport gives an URL to the clients connecting to validate themself, and that on openttd.org we create something to do that :P But it sounds like a lot of work for a hack :D 12:04:24 <dihedral> you mean something like https://auth.openttd.org/<hash> 12:04:39 <TrueBrain> yeah 12:04:49 <dihedral> and they then log in to the website? and then the server gets an ack from the master server? 12:04:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-54-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:05:08 <TrueBrain> the first, yes, the second, no 12:05:15 <dihedral> in which case i can imagine bugs. overflowing with 'allow copy and paste' or 'embed an html browser' 12:05:16 <TrueBrain> the first would also be like: if you are already logged in, you press a button 12:05:23 <TrueBrain> yup 12:05:32 <Arafangion> What do you guys do when the scammers spam that https://auth.openttd.org/<hash> site? 12:05:33 <TrueBrain> that is why I dont like it and called it a hack :D 12:05:51 <dihedral> i do not like it either 12:05:52 <Arafangion> Or rather, the site that gives teh hash - or does the openttd server itself give it? 12:06:04 <dihedral> the ottd server gives the hash 12:06:19 <TrueBrain> nah, dont be silly :) 12:06:29 <dihedral> aye 12:06:31 <TrueBrain> it would be in the form of <uniqueserveridrequestedbyadminport>/<hash> 12:06:44 <Arafangion> dihedral: It actually sounds prefectly reasonable to me, provided the openttd client allows you to click on such a link, and have it appear in a browser. 12:06:47 <TrueBrain> where hash is md5("thingtoldtheserverbyadminport" + username) 12:06:55 <dihedral> i quite like the idea of s/mime certs - as you have your token with that, and you can store further details in the cert 12:07:22 <TrueBrain> keep trying :D 12:07:26 <dihedral> pfft 12:08:04 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-13-109.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:08:23 <TrueBrain> it is too complex for a simple: yeah, this user is valid, system :) 12:08:31 <dihedral> all one needs to add is a setting in the config: path to cert, and send the modulus to the server, the server then talks to the master server passing the modulus and gets information such as valid/not valid, and username 12:08:36 <TrueBrain> we are not going to store any other information than: yes, I know this user, and it is valid :) 12:09:21 <dihedral> you do not have to - all you need to store is the token (which you must anyway) but you still have the ability to revoke them 12:09:39 <dihedral> the other information is stored inside the token 12:09:53 <TrueBrain> which is not what we are going to do :) 12:09:56 <TrueBrain> that is for an adminport to do 12:10:03 <Ammler> why is oauth bad for this? 12:10:11 <TrueBrain> wuth? Who said that? 12:10:39 <Ammler> because it sounds like you prefer to find a own solution :-) 12:10:50 <TrueBrain> I guess I have to repeat myself again .. one sec :D 12:11:07 <TrueBrain> [11:42] <TrueBrain> dihedral: how it is done on a technical level is not really in order here. The question is much more: how do you present it to the client 12:11:34 <TrueBrain> and I guess we can add: and what information the adminport receives :P 12:11:50 <TrueBrain> but that will only be: user is authenticated yes/no :) 12:12:26 <dihedral> the admin port would have to receive more information than authenticated yes/no ;-) 12:12:41 <TrueBrain> which is exactly why I dont want it; it shouldnt! 12:12:48 <TrueBrain> any information it has, it should have gathered himself 12:12:56 <Ammler> well, username 12:13:03 <TrueBrain> openttd.org is _not_ in the business of distributing information of users 12:13:22 <TrueBrain> Ammler: it only tells you if a client with a username is authenticated, meaning that is his username on the openttd.org site, yes :P 12:13:30 <TrueBrain> but that is an implication of the authenticated part :) 12:14:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-19-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:09 <dihedral> TrueBrain, regarding buiding statistics across a cluster, the admin port needs a constant hash ;-) 12:15:21 <TrueBrain> like said, it has a username 12:15:26 <TrueBrain> it is all it needs, and should want 12:15:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:40 <dihedral> but the username can be changed 12:15:46 <TrueBrain> a cluster on its turn can than have a site where you can give additional information for all I care, but that is not openttd.org's job 12:15:52 <TrueBrain> can you change your username on openttd.org? 12:15:54 <TrueBrain> that is completely new to me 12:15:58 <Ammler> dihedral: but then he needs to register again 12:16:11 <Ammler> nickname != username 12:16:17 <TrueBrain> exactly 12:16:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:32 <dihedral> TrueBrain, ah ;-) i was not aware that you want to then force the person to also play by that username ;-) 12:16:43 <TrueBrain> well, I tempt very much to that 12:16:46 <TrueBrain> but tbh, I dont fucking care 12:16:51 <dihedral> of course it is nice as that way you can reserve a nick across all servers that support the auth system 12:16:55 <TrueBrain> as long as the login is username/password, *shrug* 12:16:57 <Ammler> maybe that can be a server setting then 12:17:07 <TrueBrain> web-of-trust 12:17:13 <TrueBrain> if you force those two to be the same 12:17:19 <TrueBrain> TrueBrain is always me on such servers 12:17:32 <dihedral> true :-) 12:17:43 <TrueBrain> personally, I am more radical, and would disallow non-authenticated servers from the normal multiplayer list 12:17:50 <TrueBrain> but I am pretty sure many will dislike that :P 12:18:01 <Arafangion> It'd stop people like me from playing on them entirely. 12:18:15 <TrueBrain> a good thing I dont know you :P :D 12:18:19 <Ammler> Arafangion: servers don't need to use the service 12:18:20 <dihedral> :-D 12:18:28 <Arafangion> But if you could click on links and have them open, it might work. (as a user) 12:18:46 <Arafangion> Ammler: The data has to come from somewhere, though. Just having a website keep track fo things is annoying enough. 12:18:47 <dihedral> that wont happen either :-P 12:18:49 <TrueBrain> I started to grown to hate servers where you dont know if mister A is really mister A, of someone pretending to be mister A ..:( 12:19:12 <dihedral> that for sure is true 12:19:44 <TrueBrain> Minecraft kinda solved that nicely in my book 12:20:42 <dihedral> i have no idea how they handle that 12:20:46 <TrueBrain> but there, as pointed out earlier, if the auth server crashes, no MC :P 12:20:53 <TrueBrain> when you launch your game you authenticate 12:21:07 <TrueBrain> when you join a server you tell the MC-auth that, and the server requests that again from the MC-auth 12:21:09 <TrueBrain> in simplified terms 12:21:19 <dihedral> neat 12:21:23 <TrueBrain> your basic authentication 12:21:30 <TrueBrain> but all clients NEED to be logged in, basically 12:21:40 <TrueBrain> unless the server explicitely disables it, but meh :P 12:21:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74401.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:59 <TrueBrain> so on normal MC servers, if you see TrueBrain, it is me 12:22:03 <TrueBrain> it is that easy :P 12:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... 12:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> 2:0 12:22:11 <TrueBrain> owh, him again 12:22:17 <dihedral> i would work the other way round - if you introduce the system at this moment, i would set all servers to NOT support the system unless they explicitly set it to do so 12:22:35 <dihedral> but the idea is good :-) 12:22:52 <TrueBrain> but the more we talk about this 12:22:56 <dihedral> and servers have the ability to change the nick of a client already, in order to enforce that 12:22:57 <TrueBrain> the more I realise you also want some kind of web access 12:23:12 <dihedral> in order to change the password? 12:23:15 <TrueBrain> as you might want to login to a cluster 12:23:16 <V453000> openttd will have nickname database? or? :D 12:23:18 <TrueBrain> and see your stats 12:23:38 <dihedral> the stats ... is that then not up to the hoster of the openttd server and the admin port? 12:23:48 <TrueBrain> yes 12:23:49 <dihedral> as you do not want to store those details with openttd :-P 12:23:53 <TrueBrain> but say I want to see MY stats 12:24:04 <TrueBrain> how do I authenticate myself against YOUR website with my openttd.org details? 12:24:21 <dihedral> the same way you auth with the openttd server? 12:24:22 <Ammler> TrueBrain: that can be done later, with the edit profile form :-P 12:24:32 <TrueBrain> dihedral: which is much less simple :D 12:24:42 <dihedral> but not your problem ;-) 12:24:58 <dihedral> just as writing the bot to handle the stats from the admin port 12:25:09 <dihedral> people will write a lib as soon as the protocol is available 12:25:18 <TrueBrain> but like how we started this conversation 12:25:33 <TrueBrain> I do not (!!) want to fill in my username+password on YOUR website (no offense to you of course) 12:25:40 <dihedral> still - an s/mime cert could be implemented in the browser and remove that problem :-D 12:26:26 <dihedral> hihi 12:26:34 * dihedral feels a burning stare from TrueBrain 12:26:35 <dihedral> :-D 12:26:42 <Ammler> dihedral: there are 3 or 4 libs handling the admin port but still no productive app using it 12:26:50 <TrueBrain> nah; I moved on a while ago on that idea :P 12:26:52 <dihedral> i get the hint ;-) 12:26:52 <Rhamphoryncus> MC could be done much more robustly. When the client authenticates to the login server give it a signed token that lasts 1 week. Tell the client to attempt reauthentication after 5 days (means they have a 2 day grace period). Token is passed to game server when connecting, which only needs to verify that it is signed correctly and not expired. 12:27:39 <dihedral> that would also work for the website then 12:27:49 <TrueBrain> Rhamphoryncus: you are kinda missing an important part: if you login to a server, the client tells it is going to 12:27:54 <TrueBrain> preventing anyone from abusing my session 12:28:14 <Rhamphoryncus> TrueBrain: hmm? 12:28:31 <dihedral> what about working the other way round? 12:29:08 <dihedral> a config setting which allows giving the master server a url for a webservice, which allows openttd to fetch the data 12:29:17 <dihedral> simply by requesting data for the username 12:29:29 <dihedral> makes it more complicated on the openttd.org side of things 12:29:38 <TrueBrain> try to rephrase that 12:29:40 <dihedral> but stops people from passing login details to other websites 12:29:41 <TrueBrain> as it is kinda cryptic :P 12:29:43 <dihedral> ok 12:30:07 <dihedral> if i host a openttd server, the master server knows ip, port, game name, type, year, etc. 12:30:21 <dihedral> add another field for a webservice 12:30:42 <dihedral> the webservice is only the for openttd.org to fetch stats by sending a username and recieving further information 12:30:48 <dihedral> *there for 12:31:20 <dihedral> so the user TrueBrain logs in to a openttd.org website - wants statistics, openttd.org polls the server's webservice for details 12:31:35 <TrueBrain> hmm 12:31:39 <TrueBrain> no, I dont want openttd.org to be that 12:31:51 <TrueBrain> it should be in the middle of a cluster of servers to help the authentication 12:31:53 <TrueBrain> but nothing else 12:32:05 <TrueBrain> as what you suggest is full of exploitable possibilities 12:32:25 <dihedral> yes, i would mean you have to trust the server hosters 12:32:30 <TrueBrain> which we dont :) 12:32:33 <dihedral> :-) 12:32:39 <Rhamphoryncus> IMO this is way over-engineered. <TrueBrain> I once tried it with 'uniqueid' in openttd.cfg, but that was a ... huge failure :P <--- Put it in a separate file so it doesn't get copied. 12:32:57 <dihedral> ... 12:33:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:14 <dihedral> i am not sure copying is the only issue ;-) 12:33:39 <Rhamphoryncus> This isn't a pay-service. There's nothing to restrict someone from having 10000 accounts. 12:33:55 <dihedral> donate and you get an account :-P 12:33:58 <dihedral> hihi 12:33:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Even with minecraft there's shitloads of griefing. 12:34:45 <dihedral> i am not sure if TrueBrain would make it an automated services 12:35:41 <Rhamphoryncus> So then it's a clique. 12:35:48 <dihedral> why is that? 12:35:50 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:36:06 <Rhamphoryncus> If it's a manual service then random-new-person has a barrier to getting in 12:36:13 <Rhamphoryncus> So most of the userbase will not be involved 12:36:20 <dihedral> wrong? 12:36:21 <dihedral> ^^ 12:38:19 <dihedral> i.e. i do not think TrueBrain and Rubidium have had a vast amount of chats with all those who are registered as translators ;-) 12:38:40 <TrueBrain> who are they? 12:38:56 <TrueBrain> I Do agree with the suggestion: pay to play 12:38:58 <TrueBrain> solves it all! 12:39:03 <TrueBrain> and I will be rich of course 12:39:03 <dihedral> :-P 12:39:14 <dihedral> pay to play on auth servers only 12:39:30 <TrueBrain> we just give it a buzz word 12:39:32 <TrueBrain> like 12:39:34 <TrueBrain> euh 12:39:35 <TrueBrain> F2P! 12:39:43 <TrueBrain> and then ingame you have to buy Maglev 12:39:47 <TrueBrain> for .. 10 EUR reasonable? 12:39:48 <dihedral> Free 2 P(l)ay 12:39:55 <dihedral> :-D 12:40:17 <dihedral> talking of huge changes ;-) 12:40:58 <TrueBrain> talking about having no players in 1 month :P 12:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i broke widelands... 12:41:14 <TrueBrain> would finally solve having the same amount of servers as clients 12:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> every few seconds it uses 100% CPU, and when i save it, it says "bad_alloc" 12:42:25 <dihedral> TrueBrain, that time period has been gone for a while now 12:42:30 <dihedral> we have way more servers :-D 12:42:41 <TrueBrain> ^^ 12:43:25 * Rhamphoryncus golf claps Eddi 12:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> _somebody_ has to stop this on-topic discussion! 12:44:43 <TrueBrain> I am pondering a bit .. hmm .. hear me out for a sec, say what you think: 12:44:48 <TrueBrain> when you login as user to openttd.org 12:44:54 <TrueBrain> you can grant access to 'clusters' 12:45:04 <TrueBrain> I dont have a fancy name yet, I am sure we can think of one 12:45:08 <TrueBrain> once given that authorization 12:45:22 <TrueBrain> that cluster can track you on its own cluster 12:45:35 <dihedral> who stores the data? 12:45:41 <TrueBrain> the cluster, still 12:45:46 <TrueBrain> that wont change in any of my bla :) 12:45:52 <dihedral> how do you define a 'cluster' 12:45:57 <TrueBrain> a collection of servers 12:46:02 <TrueBrain> one that share a token, basically 12:46:11 <TrueBrain> you as server host request a token at openttd.org 12:46:14 <dihedral> ah - so servers get a token ;-) 12:46:15 <TrueBrain> that is your cluster token 12:46:24 <dihedral> ok 12:46:58 <dihedral> how else should the cluster track a user apart from on its own cluster? 12:46:58 <dihedral> ^^ 12:47:38 <dihedral> and what (other than terms of service) would stop me from sharing my login details? 12:48:22 <TrueBrain> I dont care if you share your login information 12:48:24 <TrueBrain> lolz 12:48:26 <TrueBrain> why would I 12:48:27 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 12:48:33 <appe> \o/ 12:48:43 <dihedral> as user a on one server should remain server a 12:48:47 <dihedral> ... user a 12:49:00 <TrueBrain> that is why the ToS does not allow it; what else can we do 12:49:02 <dihedral> throughout all servers supporting the system 12:49:03 <TrueBrain> I am not a police officer :) 12:49:21 <dihedral> tell the cluster on how many other clusters the user is actively playing ^^ 12:49:25 <dihedral> *g* 12:49:27 * dihedral hides 12:49:33 <TrueBrain> keep trying :) 12:49:49 <dihedral> then the cluster may decide wheather or not to accept the connection :-P 12:49:51 <TrueBrain> openttd.org is not in the business of supplying information about users :) 12:50:08 <dihedral> as if the user is active on one other cluster already, i do not trust it's the same user :-P 12:50:08 <TrueBrain> I dont want to be disallowed on cluster A because I am also on cluster B 12:50:10 <TrueBrain> it is silly, and wrong 12:50:19 <TrueBrain> silly assumption 12:50:25 <dihedral> but that could be up to the cluster admin ^^ 12:50:39 * appe kinda forgot about this channel 12:50:52 <dihedral> or - a bot connected to the admin port can address another central place that keeps track of that data 12:51:08 <dihedral> bad appe!! go to your basked! 12:51:11 <dihedral> *basket 12:51:58 <TrueBrain> hmm .. another solution would be: 12:52:11 <TrueBrain> you (as client) login to openttd.org, say you want an auth token, and you receive a token 12:52:22 <TrueBrain> instead of your password, you use that token on auth servers 12:52:26 <TrueBrain> no username+password, just that token 12:52:38 <TrueBrain> I wonder if that is easier for clients or not 12:52:48 <dihedral> and set the token as unique id, and the token is valid for 24h 12:52:58 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about a bit longer period of time :P 12:53:02 <TrueBrain> else it will be frustrating 12:53:09 <TrueBrain> although we can of course also fetch the token ingame 12:53:11 <dihedral> and eaiserly copied 12:53:15 <TrueBrain> but that is exactly what I Wanted to aviod ... 12:53:33 <TrueBrain> the reason why I bring this up, as I am wondering: 12:53:39 <TrueBrain> loging in every time you start OpentTD 12:53:42 <TrueBrain> would be rather .. annoying 12:53:48 <TrueBrain> but I also dont want to store the password locally 12:53:51 <TrueBrain> as well .. that is bad 12:54:00 <dihedral> like i said, a console command for the login and use autostart_client.scr 12:54:14 <TrueBrain> and how does that help? 12:54:15 <TrueBrain> lolz 12:54:25 <TrueBrain> it doesnt really solve the issue :P 12:54:36 <dihedral> that when openttd starts the command is executed and does the login for me 12:54:44 <TrueBrain> [13:06] <TrueBrain> but I also dont want to store the password locally 12:54:45 <TrueBrain> [13:06] <TrueBrain> as well .. that is bad 12:54:48 <appe> dihedral: your mother. 12:54:53 <appe> dihedral: ..is a delightful person! 12:54:57 <dihedral> oh i missed that 12:55:15 <TrueBrain> it is why it is an issue. your issue can be solved so much more elegant without that sillyness :D 12:55:26 <dihedral> :-P 12:55:32 * appe re-welcomes himself to the channel by putting blunt stuff into planetmaker 12:56:01 <dihedral> someone in need of attention? :-P 12:56:40 <dihedral> why does the client have to tell the server it is authenticated 12:56:52 <dihedral> why can the master server not tell the openttd server? 12:56:55 <appe> :p 12:57:14 <dihedral> a simple push 12:57:15 <TrueBrain> euh 12:57:23 <TrueBrain> the client will never tell the server it is authenticated 12:57:27 <TrueBrain> we talk about open source here 12:57:30 <TrueBrain> no fucking way that would work 12:57:41 <TrueBrain> but the MS needs to know if a client is authenticated, does it not? :D 12:59:05 <dihedral> login to the website, get token, start openttd, enter token, once token is set MS is informed of the server the client tries to join and pushes an ack to the server 12:59:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:21 <TrueBrain> yeah, but I think that is too hard on clients 12:59:36 <TrueBrain> exploring options .... how to make this as easy as possible :D 12:59:45 <dihedral> implement the 'login' process into openttd with a username and password promt 13:00:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:00:08 <dihedral> instead of username + password, use an s/mime cert :-D 13:00:13 * dihedral chuckles 13:00:24 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:26 <TrueBrain> [13:05] <TrueBrain> the reason why I bring this up, as I am wondering: 13:00:27 <TrueBrain> [13:05] <TrueBrain> loging in every time you start OpentTD 13:00:29 <TrueBrain> [13:05] <TrueBrain> would be rather .. annoying 13:00:30 <TrueBrain> damn, you are slow today 13:00:59 <dihedral> so you can think of further options, other than openttd website login and ingame login? 13:01:03 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 13:01:24 <TrueBrain> well, store such gained token on the client for a period of time 13:01:32 <dihedral> they already have to enter the password of a server or of their company or even both, so further login details would not hurt 13:01:48 <TrueBrain> there you have a point 13:01:55 <TrueBrain> and my end-goal is to avoid all those passwords 13:01:58 <dihedral> if you make it ingame - the token counts as long as the session 13:02:03 <TrueBrain> and replace it with: you are authenticated, so you have access to A B C and D 13:02:23 <dihedral> your nick is the username, you are promted for one password 13:02:32 <TrueBrain> yeah, I guess that works 13:02:37 <dihedral> it is up to the server to move you into your company 13:02:46 <TrueBrain> you can either click Login, or join an auth server 13:02:56 <TrueBrain> both popup the password dialog 13:03:04 <dihedral> aye 13:03:06 <TrueBrain> and only once for the runtime of your client 13:03:13 <TrueBrain> and maybe an invalidation every 24h or something 13:03:37 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [] 13:03:38 <dihedral> invalidate once the game is closed 13:03:53 <TrueBrain> then the server, by the means of a packet to admin port, receives information about the connecting user in terms of: username, validated 13:03:54 <dihedral> that already is good, else you have to enter the password on each connect 13:04:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:08 <dihedral> that will not work 13:04:12 <dihedral> by means of the admin port? 13:04:34 <dihedral> the admin port is limited to 16 connections and is password protected 13:04:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 13:04:48 <TrueBrain> euh? 13:05:04 <TrueBrain> I think you dont talk the same language :D 13:05:04 <Xaroth> o_O 13:05:11 <TrueBrain> what I mean is: when a client connects 13:05:14 <TrueBrain> it goes through the auth 13:05:23 <TrueBrain> then the adminport in the end receives a packet with the information about the auth 13:05:36 <TrueBrain> as it is the only part of OpentTD that cares basically 13:07:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Doh. Too much slack and my timetabling system "fails". It only skips a departure window if you were late enough to hit the next window, but it's also possible to have all your vehicles waiting at one stop while arriving late at all the others just quick enough to not trigger the skipping behaviour. 13:07:58 <dihedral> i still do not get why it must be to the admin port... i must be missing something 13:08:15 <TrueBrain> dihedral: yes, you are 13:08:19 <TrueBrain> as the word "must" is misplaced 13:08:30 <TrueBrain> what is the part of OpenTTD that cares about authentication yes/no? 13:08:35 <TrueBrain> what is the part that makes decisions on it? 13:08:40 <TrueBrain> the C++ part? Hell no 13:08:42 <TrueBrain> NoGo? 13:08:44 <TrueBrain> hell no 13:08:45 <TrueBrain> NoAI? 13:08:47 <TrueBrain> hell no 13:08:51 <TrueBrain> it is, indeed, the admin port :P 13:08:54 <dihedral> ... 13:09:04 <TrueBrain> does it click now? :D 13:09:14 <dihedral> if you accept or deny a client based on it's authentication of course it's not just the admin port 13:09:32 <dihedral> if it is the admin port, the client connected already 13:09:37 <dihedral> and has the map 13:10:21 <TrueBrain> anyway ... 13:11:12 <dihedral> any communication from the MS should be next to all other communication with the MS 13:11:14 <TrueBrain> for the webpart we can use other techniques .. like OAuth I guess 13:11:21 <TrueBrain> dihedral: ffs, read what I wrote :P 13:11:25 <TrueBrain> you really still dont get it :) 13:11:45 <dihedral> nope - then express yourself more clearly ;-) 13:11:53 <TrueBrain> [13:16] <TrueBrain> then the server, by the means of a packet to admin port, receives information about the connecting user in terms of: username, validated 13:12:03 <TrueBrain> the server receives information about the connecting user 13:12:13 <TrueBrain> how does it process it? Well, it sends a packet 13:12:18 <TrueBrain> you know, information 13:12:20 <TrueBrain> to the admin port 13:12:23 <TrueBrain> does it click now? 13:12:47 <dihedral> do we have a translator in this channel? 13:12:58 <TrueBrain> you do realise I have @kick access, right? :) 13:13:18 <dihedral> needing a kick command just because someone does not get what you are trying to say is sad ;-) 13:13:36 <TrueBrain> nah; I need the kick command because someone is pulling my leg by acting like he doesnt understand :P 13:15:20 <Xaroth> even i understand it 13:15:35 <dihedral> pffft 13:15:38 <dihedral> ^^ 13:15:50 <TrueBrain> that means absolutely nothing Xaroth, as you are most likely wrong :D 13:15:58 <dihedral> i offer time to code the network related parts ;-) 13:16:03 <Xaroth> correct 13:17:05 <TrueBrain> anyway, now we established how it should work, from client and admin side 13:17:36 <MNIM> Hmmmmh. 13:17:36 <TrueBrain> code-wise it is very easy: make the login button, send packet to MSU in form of: gettoken(username, md5(salted-password)) 13:17:39 <TrueBrain> receive a token back 13:17:50 <TrueBrain> when you join server which has auth, send token to MSU + server token 13:17:59 <TrueBrain> server queries MSU with username + server token 13:18:03 <MNIM> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned once already, but it would be nice to be able to use multiple town name GRFs at once. 13:18:04 <TrueBrain> that part is all easy 13:18:08 <TrueBrain> changing the MSU, that is a bitch .. 13:18:39 <dihedral> oh 13:19:01 <dihedral> is the MSU still in C? 13:19:19 <TrueBrain> C++, yes 13:19:28 <dihedral> would it make sense to port it to python? 13:19:37 <TrueBrain> none 13:19:40 <dihedral> k 13:19:53 <TrueBrain> its queried so many times 13:20:03 <dihedral> hehe - i bet :-P 13:20:17 <TrueBrain> then again, we once already made a draft of a new MSU, to reduce the load on all sides 13:20:28 <TrueBrain> but nobody replied on the topic Rb created about it, so he cosnidered nobody was interested :D 13:20:41 <TrueBrain> people should motivate the developers more by cheerful comments!! 13:20:52 <TrueBrain> not the endless bitching: WHY DOESN OPENTTD USE MULTICORES 13:21:00 <dihedral> i did not read that thread - i did not even see it 13:22:18 <TrueBrain> basically, it makes the MSU more useful, by allowing to send queries to it, and receive more server information than the IP:port 13:22:26 <TrueBrain> reducing the endless UDPs you send out when you hit: Find Server, atm :P 13:23:44 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 13:23:59 <dihedral> would increase traffic a bit ;-) 13:24:10 <TrueBrain> only on our side 13:24:17 <TrueBrain> but it does allow us to grow bigger 13:24:33 <TrueBrain> already some clients cant query all servers 13:24:37 <TrueBrain> because they have a tarded router :P 13:24:54 <dihedral> wow 13:32:03 <Rhamphoryncus> TrueBrain: openttd does too use multicores! That's where all the "thread spawned; thread exited" spam in gdb is from ;) 13:32:15 <Rhamphoryncus> (autosaving uses a background thread.) 13:32:22 <dihedral> ... 13:32:39 <TrueBrain> thank you dihedral for saying what I am thinking 13:32:51 <dihedral> hehe 13:32:53 <Rhamphoryncus> what? 13:33:07 <Xaroth> but you could make a SOAP api for the MSU if it was in python :o 13:33:07 <dihedral> the core of the game is not threaded 13:33:37 <TrueBrain> it is also funny that he is explaining me where threading is used :P 13:33:42 <dihedral> Xaroth, by the sound of it, python is not gonna be fast enough 13:33:42 <TrueBrain> well, he forgets a few 13:33:44 <TrueBrain> like genworld 13:34:03 <Xaroth> dihedral: obvious troll was not obvious enough? 13:34:05 <Rhamphoryncus> I know. It was a stupid pedantic response to an irrelevant offhand comment you made. That's why it's funny. 13:34:15 <dihedral> Xaroth, oh :-P 13:34:23 <Xaroth> I should have mentioned XML or something 13:34:26 <Xaroth> to make it more obvious 13:34:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:34:34 <dihedral> port it to .not 13:34:39 <TrueBrain> dihedral: @kick? 13:34:42 <TrueBrain> :P 13:34:49 <dihedral> me? or one of the others :-P 13:34:55 <TrueBrain> YOU! 13:35:03 <TrueBrain> like swearing in the church 13:35:06 <TrueBrain> come on! 13:35:08 <dihedral> nah - i am just quoting the 'movie' java4ever 13:35:24 <dihedral> from the makers of javatar 13:35:35 <TrueBrain> .... lolz 13:35:37 <TrueBrain> go to work 13:35:52 <dihedral> ^^ 13:36:05 <dihedral> with lenny linux and monalisa harddrive ^^ 13:38:15 <dihedral> just in case someone might not have seen it yet... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl1f1-Da0OI 13:39:15 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:39:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:41:32 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:44:03 <dihedral> Rubidium, by the way - any thoughts regarding fs4990? or no time so yet 13:48:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: TTFN!] 13:56:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-129-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:56:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:02:07 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-13-109.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:34 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:03 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:20:34 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:21:05 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-146-205.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:27:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-129-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:22 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:51 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 14:49:10 *** Chris_Booth [~53d9a528@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:49:17 <Chris_Booth> hi 14:52:23 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 15:03:04 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:06:29 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 15:06:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:06:37 <dihedral> hale the whale 15:09:37 <__ln__> http://i.imgur.com/X3bQJ.png 15:09:57 <Belugas> He sir dral :) 15:16:29 <Rhamphoryncus> __ln__: wow, that's pretty horrible 15:17:05 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:21:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:22:06 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds very wrong... 15:31:57 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 15:32:23 <krinn> hi 15:32:37 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:33:17 <krinn> i have a problem with my ai that let the VM crash, and openttd then segfault too, any hint/tips to help @ debug that, the crash log is not really of help 15:34:02 <TrueBrain> which OS, which OpenTTD version? 15:34:27 <krinn> tried 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 15:34:29 <krinn> gentoo 15:34:38 <TrueBrain> can you try with 1.1.5? 15:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> also, logs, savegame, AI, way to reproduce 15:35:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:35:32 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i have 0 doubt it's my AI, the only problem is that openttd crash because of the VM collapse, i'll try 1.1.5 15:35:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 15:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: an ai crash may never cause an openttd crash, as thus that is a bug in openttd 15:36:19 <krinn> that's what i mean 15:36:51 <krinn> the AI doesn't really crash, but the i think the AI (uninitialized variiable or something) let the VM crash and openttd collapse then 15:37:20 <TrueBrain> I wonder how a collapse looks like :D 15:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i just listed the required information for a dev to be able to look at it 15:37:32 <TrueBrain> anyway, do you have the crash.log? 15:37:37 <krinn> i use the console, and last thing i see in it are simple message from the AI, the AI doesn't stopped by itself 15:37:43 <krinn> yes i have a crash.log 15:37:59 <krinn> and i can produce as many as i wish 15:38:40 <TrueBrain> well, I am not really interested if you have one; I am more interested what is in it 15:39:01 <krinn> :) 15:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "can you tell me the time please?" "yes." 15:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 15:39:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:33 <TrueBrain> yeah .. polite ways of asking are often shut down with a flamethrower :P 15:39:41 <krinn> let me check if i can send it to you there (but i think this comp is behind my firewall) 15:39:44 <TrueBrain> I often wonder why we try to be polite; we should be rude and just ask what we want to know :D 15:39:52 <TrueBrain> krinn: just put it on a pastebin 15:40:00 <TrueBrain> or otherwise you can do this: 15:40:06 <TrueBrain> 1) update to 1.1.5, see if the problems happens 15:40:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has joined #openttd 15:40:18 <TrueBrain> 2) go to http://bugs.openttd.org/ , and make a bug report about it 15:40:30 <krinn> http://pastebin.com/uaiPatbr 15:40:31 <TrueBrain> attach your AI, a savegame and CLEAR INSTRUCTION to reproduce 15:41:03 <krinn> that's the problem, clear instruction to reproduce is just letting it run with it and wait 15:41:48 <TrueBrain> 0xffffe400 <- awesome location to call 15:41:54 <TrueBrain> how is that a problem? 15:41:58 <TrueBrain> that sounds like a very good method 15:42:10 <TrueBrain> so yeah, please do make a bug report, as this needs a debugger attached to diagnose 15:42:31 <TrueBrain> one of the more rare cases Windows is better: upon crashes :D 15:42:40 <dihedral> at least he knows pastebin ;-) 15:42:43 <TrueBrain> when we can reproduce it, we can fix it :) 15:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound awfully confident :p 15:43:14 <TrueBrain> it crashes in a valuator .. meh :) 15:43:18 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I am 15:43:28 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: emperical evidence :) 15:43:57 <krinn> ah nice tips for the valuator crash 15:44:19 <TrueBrain> but please do make a bug report, as we should fix this in OpenTTD :) 15:44:33 <TrueBrain> (assuming the 1.2 tree hasnt already, but lets assume for a sec it hasnt :)) 15:44:43 <krinn> will do 15:44:48 <TrueBrain> tnx 15:45:44 <TrueBrain> a crashing OpenTTD is an unhappy OpenTTD :D 15:46:25 <krinn> and i'm not really happy my AI does that 15:46:47 <TrueBrain> AI-wise: it seems you do a Valuate on an AIList, and this is breaking somehow .. if I have to guess, I think you call a Squirrel-valuator 15:46:54 <TrueBrain> so that might give you some insight where your problem is in the AI 15:47:12 <TrueBrain> I have no way of telling you atm if your code is valid and there is just a bug, or that you do something that is invalid, and we should just kill off your script :) 15:47:44 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:48:15 <krinn> yep, but i have very few valuators like that 15:48:55 <krinn> hence the nice tips to point this, i might find what is doing that and a fix to avoid it 15:49:18 <TrueBrain> if you find it, make sure to attach that to the bug report; might make our life easier :D 15:50:16 <krinn> sure, it would be easier to find if the VM stop the AI and produce an error instead of the crash :) 15:50:34 <TrueBrain> the ultimate goal ;) 15:51:03 <TrueBrain> lucky enough for us it is relative rare for the AI to crash OpenTTD, unlucky for you as you found an exception :D 15:52:25 <TrueBrain> bbl 15:52:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:52:28 <krinn> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5068 15:52:41 <krinn> ask for more files, details or anything need 15:52:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:52:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: procedural sprite generator :) 15:52:56 <andythenorth> interested? 15:53:13 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2449/procedural_truck_body.png 15:53:19 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1112/ 15:55:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4ef:f374:9026:6c03] has joined #openttd 15:55:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:56:33 *** Chris_Booth [~53d9a528@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:56:59 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: bye and thank you] 15:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: -- view is easy, the other views are interesting, with overlapping and stuff :) 15:58:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: limited use cases 15:58:09 <andythenorth> trailers only at this stage 15:58:32 <andythenorth> although I think masks can be used to comp details 15:59:00 <andythenorth> pretty certain you could do this for passenger carriages and freight cars 15:59:01 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 15:59:07 <andythenorth> not locomotives, no gain 15:59:24 <andythenorth> could also be used to generate primitives, which are then detailed by hand 15:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, it would be interesting to have better "generic" placeholder graphics instead of our green boxes 15:59:52 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you finished 'holiday' yet? 16:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like you feed it an axle scheme and a colour and it generates a steam/diesel/electric engine 16:01:49 <andythenorth> you feed it 'scaffolds' with magic colours imho 16:02:04 <andythenorth> as those are easier to place accurately, rather than feeding it a big 2 dimensional array 16:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, we already have the green template boxes 16:02:33 <andythenorth> each magic colour maps to a sequence of tuples with (x ,y, colour) 16:02:44 <andythenorth> x and y are offsets from current pixel 16:03:04 <andythenorth> drawing will be in scan order from top left 16:03:19 <andythenorth> so there are possible edge cases for overlapping being problematic 16:04:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: let me know if you want to play with it - the code is trivial :) 16:04:20 * andythenorth -> back to work 16:04:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:11:25 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:09 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19347.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:28 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 16:20:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:23:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 16:31:13 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:42:45 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:29 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 16:46:36 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:59 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 16:53:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 16:53:52 <Belugas> i guess i'm getting old. The company decided to change our screens from 20" to 24". I refused, did not like the change 16:54:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:54:09 <Belugas> Finally, i reluctantly accepted. 16:54:42 <Belugas> Now, I have two freaking large screens taking an immense space on my desk. 16:54:47 <Belugas> Does it feel better? 16:54:48 <Belugas> no 16:54:52 <Belugas> tuse... 16:54:54 <Belugas> thus.. 16:54:57 <Belugas> i'm getting old 16:59:28 <theholyduck> Belugas, well are they 24" higher res? 16:59:33 <theholyduck> and if so, significantly? 16:59:52 <theholyduck> Belugas, i' dont like using widescreens at all 16:59:56 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:57 <theholyduck> i run 3 19" 5:4's 17:00:32 <Belugas> yup they are. from 1024xsomething to 1920x1080 17:00:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-135.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 17:00:51 <Belugas> for debugging, it's quite a charm, i have to admit 17:01:01 <theholyduck> Belugas, i would personally have switched to small monitors with high res 17:01:06 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:01:09 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:01:18 <theholyduck> i mean, my next monitor upgrade is probably the 21.5" ultrasharps 17:01:20 <Belugas> pity for my eyes! 17:01:33 <theholyduck> 1920x1080, 21.5" 17:06:55 <Belugas> my glasses would not appreciate... too small for comfort, I have to admit 17:07:44 <Belugas> coffee time. too soon for lunch, even if my stomac says otherwise :( 17:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> modern screens somewhat violate moore's law... 17:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> resolutions practically stopped going up some 10 years ago 17:22:06 <Belugas> like CPUs speed, i'd say :) 17:23:43 <SpComb> everyone got stuck at 1080p video resolutions 17:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they increase the number of cores instead 17:28:30 <Belugas> does it run faster? it helps, but it's not significant enough, i'd say 17:29:12 <Belugas> note that transformer prime, with 4 cores, is incredibly faster than the other tablets with only two 17:32:08 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:44:40 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-103-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:44:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 17:47:56 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:48:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:49:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4969.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-146-205.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:11 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-79-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:00:26 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-103-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.64] has joined #openttd 18:12:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:20:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B9BF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:23:47 <supermop> has anyone been watching ths guy who made the patch for coupling? 18:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "moore's law" actually says "the number of transistors in a chip doubles every 1.5 years" [or similar] 18:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: he did not actually post a patch, or? 18:25:01 <supermop> nope just videos 18:25:18 <supermop> not sure what's going on there 18:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> <cynical>and even if he did, it would probably fail all sanity checks on code quality</cynical> 18:27:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:22 <supermop> still looks like fun though 18:28:27 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-72-46.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:29:16 <__ln__> url? 18:33:24 <supermop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9d7wfgMTMg&feature=youtu.be 18:34:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-79-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:30 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-053-202.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:35:51 <__ln__> pretty cool 18:37:07 <supermop> would be fun to have locomotives run around the train at end of line too 18:40:04 <__ln__> yeah, the teleporting locomotive looks bad in that context 18:40:45 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:41:07 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:10 <appe> dafuq is dat 18:43:57 <appe> i didnt know that was possible in ott 18:43:59 <appe> +d 18:44:03 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:44:05 *** Mark is now known as Guest2839 18:44:05 *** Guest2759 is now known as Mark 18:44:40 <__ln__> it isn't 18:49:45 *** Guest2839 [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:08 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 19:13:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 19:15:18 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:15:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:16:05 <Terkhen> hello 19:26:50 *** Mark is now known as Guest2842 19:26:50 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 19:30:31 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 19:30:31 *** Guest2842 is now known as Mark 19:33:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23955 /trunk/src/lang/ (arabic_egypt.txt french.txt lithuanian.txt): 19:33:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:33:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 37 changes by kasakg 19:33:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 14 changes by OliTTD, glx 19:33:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 34 changes by Stabilitronas 19:36:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:36:13 <Wolf01> evenink 19:36:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4969.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:20 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 19:38:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23956 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): -Fix (r23949): Fix wrong position argument in translated timetable strings. 19:38:32 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:40:24 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 19:42:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:47 <Alberth> oddink 19:45:29 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:51:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:51:16 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:53:28 <andythenorth> efening 19:53:41 <Alberth> hi ih 19:57:57 * andythenorth procedurally generates a greeting 19:57:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:59:01 * andythenorth is having some design headaches with pixel genrator 19:59:14 <andythenorth> the code isn't hard, the human interface needs a bit of thought 20:00:04 <andythenorth> as nobody has a fricking clue what I'm doing yet, I probably have to figure it out for myself :o :P 20:02:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:04:07 <appe> http://yvettesbridalformal.com/ 20:05:59 <Elukka> http://www.timecube.com/ 20:06:09 <Alberth> you can also explain what you've done, and ask for advice :) 20:06:29 <Alberth> http://www.openttd.org/ 20:07:02 <Elukka> that link doesn't fit in, it makes sense :P 20:07:22 <Alberth> http://www.example.com/ then :) 20:08:55 <Elukka> andythenorth: what's pixel generator? 20:09:01 <Elukka> does it make pixels so i don't have to 20:09:43 <Alberth> it mostly colours pixels, I think 20:15:05 <Alberth> andythenorth: working on mnml? (meta newgrf meta language) 20:15:52 <andythenorth> mnmlt 20:15:55 <andythenorth> meta nml toolset 20:20:53 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:38:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2456/a_test_trailer.png 20:38:20 <andythenorth> that's about 10 mins work 20:38:27 <andythenorth> wouldn't take a lot more to make it basically sound 20:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> might just be me, but the proportions look off... 20:41:37 <andythenorth> probably are 20:42:02 <andythenorth> they rely entirely on the scaffold that's drawn with magic colour 20:42:36 <andythenorth> this is halfway between drawing and pure procedures 20:51:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-66-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:58:20 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 21:00:45 <andythenorth> hmm 21:00:50 <andythenorth> so many possibilities 21:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> oh what have i done... i taught andythenorth the value of generators :p 21:05:02 <Terkhen> you did not think about the consequences? :) 21:06:20 <Alberth> wait until he finds out about generators that generate generators :D 21:12:05 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:47 * andythenorth is not new to generators 21:13:09 <andythenorth> like most people who tinker with web apps andythenorth has written an 'auto-magical form generator' 21:13:16 <andythenorth> followed by learning why they mostly fail :P 21:13:58 * andythenorth has also written lots of game code that generates levels, baddies, power ups etc :) 21:14:25 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: does CETS include NG? 21:14:26 <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=389701&nseq=46 21:18:07 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:53 <Elukka> that is a weird locomotive 21:22:00 <Elukka> i believe it technically does but nothing is drawn 21:22:36 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: i still have naggling concerns about the CETS palette being too muted in comparison to the rest of the game 21:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, but railtype support is incomplete 21:23:25 <andythenorth> that one looks more like HEQS trams anyway if I judge size correctly 21:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i believe the saxon IV K is already added to the core set 21:25:29 <andythenorth> awesome 21:25:33 * andythenorth likes NG 21:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/sax/IVK_4_sax.png 21:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/sax/IVK_4_DR.png <- probably slightly closer to the above picture 21:31:17 <Elukka> heh, i didn't realize ng stuff was drawn already 21:31:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23957 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#4990]: allow sending chat to pre-active clients as the clients start accepting once they send 'map ok' to the server, which is the same moment we change their status to pre-active 21:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that's purely oberhÌmer's fault :p 21:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> he did it "just because"... 21:32:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23958 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: don't allow chat messages from pre-active clients. As they haven't got the savegame yet, they won't have the interface to send them either (dihedral) 21:33:33 <Elukka> hey, eddi, if i have some minor changes to a sprite can i just throw it into the repository somehow 21:34:11 <Rubidium> Elukka: just start drawing 32bpp EZ sprites. Thenk you have way more colours to play with (and pixels) 21:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: you can post them to the tracker 21:35:22 <Elukka> i'd do 32bpp but EZ would wait until there's at least a good amount of normal zoom level sprites done 21:35:29 <andythenorth> 32bpp sprite generator :P 21:35:33 * andythenorth ponders 21:36:02 <andythenorth> I could encode the pixel sequences in dict: (tuples) 21:36:16 <andythenorth> or I could draw them in another png and then have the generator read them 21:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> §somebody wanted to provide a script for automatic 32bpp->8bpp conversion 21:36:36 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:44 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how I'd handle non-vertical sequences if they were drawn in a png 21:36:58 <andythenorth> I'd need some kind of control colour to say 'sequence starts here' 21:38:48 <andythenorth> or I could just code them in...code 21:39:16 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:39:55 <andythenorth> dunno about lighting either 21:40:01 <andythenorth> could just manually encode lighting differences 21:40:22 <andythenorth> or I could detect which angle is being drawn (using x position), then transform all pixels 21:42:30 * andythenorth is favouring manually encoding everything 21:42:36 <andythenorth> magic is untrustworthy 21:42:49 <andythenorth> procedural pixel generator is magic enough 21:44:56 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:52:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:37 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-23-41-5.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:56:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23959 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/run.sh: -Change: make regression less faily when spurious warnings are shown 21:59:53 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17066798 22:00:30 <andythenorth> __ln__: I think I'm in that video 22:00:34 <andythenorth> not the guy on the bike though 22:00:41 <__ln__> but in the bus? 22:00:52 <__ln__> driving it.. nah 22:00:55 <andythenorth> nah 22:00:57 <andythenorth> not so much 22:01:35 <andythenorth> 8.30 is a bit early for me 22:01:55 <andythenorth> but there is a cyclist crosses the frame near the end, identical bike, bag, coat to mine 22:02:07 <andythenorth> and that use to be one of my routes to work 22:02:29 <andythenorth> I have arguments with people at the same roundabout as the cyclist in that story 22:04:13 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:04:45 <__ln__> andythenorth: surveillance recorders' clocks are often off by who knows how many dozens of minutes 22:04:55 <andythenorth> it would need to be about 1hr off 22:05:02 <andythenorth> or on the wrong summer time setting 22:06:00 <__ln__> 1hr wouldn't surprise me at all. 22:07:23 * andythenorth generates a palette 22:07:25 <supermop> you are from bristol? 22:07:29 <andythenorth> not from 22:07:34 <supermop> in? 22:07:38 <andythenorth> yup 22:07:44 <andythenorth> spiritual home of TTD 22:07:53 <supermop> always pictured you as a northerner 22:08:02 <andythenorth> somewhat true 22:08:03 <supermop> thought tt was from up north 22:08:16 <andythenorth> chris sawyer and simon foster are from up north 22:08:26 <andythenorth> microprose was based in frampton cotterel 22:08:34 <andythenorth> the guy who fixed my windows used to work there 22:10:00 <supermop> hm nice 22:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos north... what's this talk about scottish independence? 22:10:20 <supermop> silly 22:10:22 <andythenorth> chipping sodbury / frampton cotterel /s 22:10:27 * andythenorth can't comment on that 22:10:36 <andythenorth> working on it professionally 22:10:49 <supermop> i can say that i think it is silly 22:10:51 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 22:11:04 * andythenorth hmms at PIL 22:11:08 <supermop> that from someone with much more scottish blood than english 22:11:28 <supermop> but i dont live there so not my issue to take issue with 22:12:10 <andythenorth> omg 22:12:15 * andythenorth has generated a palette 22:12:20 <andythenorth> with numbers and all 22:13:44 <supermop> seeing the word 'micropose' makes the TTO song play in my head 22:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and if scotland declares independence, what happens to northern ireland? 22:14:01 <supermop> its not part of scottland 22:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i do know that 22:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's something called a ripple or domino effect :p 22:14:41 <supermop> i have a feeling northern irish want to stay in the union more than the other nations would like to see them stay 22:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how did that happen anyway? what made them split up ireland that way, historically speaking? 22:16:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4969.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:46 <supermop> the people in the north wanted to stay, those in the south wanted to go 22:17:58 <supermop> north is more protestant than the south is 22:18:27 <supermop> obviously its not quite so black and white, but thats the simple explanation 22:22:07 <andythenorth> quak 22:23:16 <supermop> hm? 22:23:30 <frosch123> moin 22:30:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:24 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:33:41 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-23-41-5.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120208012847]] 22:34:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:34:54 * andythenorth joins ranks of 'people who have generated palette keys' http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2457/palette_key.png 22:35:46 <supermop> now you just need a way for python to automate the creation of clever truck names 22:36:36 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2865 22:36:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:37 *** Guest2865 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:40 <andythenorth> stupid wifi 22:36:50 <andythenorth> script needs a paletted input file: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1113/ 22:37:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: that's the wrong palette 22:37:19 <frosch123> also use ttdviewer for such things 22:40:12 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2866 22:40:13 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:40:13 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 22:41:37 * andythenorth experiments with ttd viewer 22:41:43 *** Guest2866 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:17 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: how do I get TTDViewer to tell me the palette index for each colour? 22:44:11 <frosch123> isn't there some tooltip? 22:44:19 * andythenorth checks 22:44:25 <andythenorth> yes 22:45:35 <frosch123> really? i cannot make it work 22:48:09 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2867 22:48:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:48:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: works in nightly, older version doesn't do it 22:48:17 <andythenorth> both are '1.0' 22:48:20 <frosch123> wow, how did i manage to not have an up-to-date version of ttdviwer :o 22:48:43 <frosch123> i did not even had the save button 22:49:23 <andythenorth> TTDViewer palette disagrees with the palette in my image 22:49:35 <andythenorth> the indexes are completely different 22:49:50 <frosch123> you are using the deprecated win palette 22:49:52 *** Guest2867 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:56 <frosch123> everything else uses the dos palette 22:50:12 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 22:50:29 <frosch123> also not that ttdviewer hides various colours by default 22:50:37 <frosch123> so, make sure to uncheck the stuff in the menu 22:51:40 <andythenorth> I thought I'd switched to the DOS palette from the ottd repo :o 22:51:51 <andythenorth> I had to switch because nml refuses to compile the windows palette I had previously 22:52:01 <andythenorth> perhaps I switched incorrectly :P 22:55:00 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:57:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:08 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2869 22:58:08 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@178.108.216.47] has joined #openttd 22:58:08 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 22:58:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: better? :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2458/palette_key.png 22:58:51 <andythenorth> wrong palette setting saved in photoshop 22:58:59 * andythenorth probably has lots of wrong images out in the wild :( 22:59:15 <frosch123> better :) 22:59:43 <andythenorth> TTDViewer is shiny, but I need a palette with numbers on 22:59:51 <andythenorth> I will be writing them into python a lot :P 23:00:04 *** Guest2869 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: did you see my insane project? :D http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2449/procedural_truck_body.png 23:01:37 <frosch123> i did not see yet any image 23:07:46 * andythenorth -> bed 23:07:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@178.108.216.47] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:10:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23960 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix/Change: [NewGRF] Make the properties for always/never refittable cargo types not behave incremental, but reset them on reassignment. 23:10:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 23:12:28 <frosch123> night 23:12:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4969.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:04 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:07 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:20 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 23:17:46 <Sacro> well, don't ever /exec yes 23:18:42 *** brendan10211 [~brendan10@cpe-069-134-169-113.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:18:52 *** brendan10211 [~brendan10@cpe-069-134-169-113.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:30 <__ln__> Is this cover photo of University Physics actually a mirror image? http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FAETNKH2L._SS500_.jpg 23:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> this cover photo of University Physics actually does not load 23:25:19 <__ln__> it does 23:25:33 <Terkhen> it loads fine for me 23:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it does now 23:27:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 23:31:02 <Stimrol> hello, Is there a way to enable kN (Tractive Effort) on 1.1.5 server? 23:31:56 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:08 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:33:18 <Terkhen> hi Stimrol 23:33:32 <Stimrol> hi 23:33:42 <Terkhen> enable advanced settings -> vehicles -> realistic acceleration for the vehicle type you are intested in 23:34:00 <Terkhen> if you mean the console command required for doing that, I don't know :) 23:34:49 <Stimrol> no i can do that, thanks 23:37:23 <Stimrol> This worked, thanks a lot 23:37:36 <Terkhen> you are welcome 23:38:40 <appe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YgACusQaTE&feature=BFp&list=PLC7082A4D54AAD0D6 23:38:42 <appe> <3 23:42:50 <Terkhen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Nevada_Observatory <--- I visited this one when I was a kid... not as spectacular, but quite impressive nonetheless 23:46:34 <Terkhen> good night 23:54:24 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd