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[Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:27 <dihedral> hello :-) 06:50:59 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.142.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:33 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:34 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@220.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:11:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has joined #openttd 07:11:41 <telanus> ollah 07:13:55 <dihedral> hello :-) 07:14:42 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has joined #openttd 07:14:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has quit [] 07:14:56 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has quit [] 07:15:39 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:18:19 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has joined #openttd 07:19:58 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-69-40.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:05 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@115.133.0.168] has joined #openttd 07:26:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has 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closed] 09:59:24 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.12.51] has joined #openttd 10:01:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:19 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.12.51] has quit [] 10:04:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.51] has joined #openttd 10:14:01 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-057-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:23:06 *** Hazzard [~7c418246@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:33:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A7AD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:15 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 10:38:15 *** guru3__ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:55 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.158] has joined #openttd 11:05:33 *** Hazzard [~7c418246@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:37:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A7AD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:46:37 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 12:13:46 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 12:55:35 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.142.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:07 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.86.160] has joined #openttd 13:20:49 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:39 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 13:45:44 <Belugas> hello 13:46:14 <__ln___> Belugas: the canadian is causing trouble over here again 13:47:02 <Belugas> who the hell is the canadian? 13:47:17 <__ln___> stephen elop 13:49:12 <__ln___> i just wanted to share this piece of information even though there's probably not much you can do about it 13:53:37 <planetmaker> for me there's only one "the canandian" ;-) And he's in this channel :-P 14:06:56 <Belugas> who the hell is stephen elop> I only know of stephen harper and i don't like him at all 14:07:21 <cornishpasty> Belugas: CEO of Nokia 14:08:56 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 14:09:33 <Belugas> thanks cornishpasty. and why is he causing trouble? he wants to stop ottd to run on his devices? 14:09:48 <cornishpasty> Belugas: no idea, I'm not __ln___ 14:11:50 <Belugas> planetmaker, i think i know who you are talking about :) 14:12:14 <planetmaker> hehe :) 14:12:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:14:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.185.126] has joined #openttd 14:17:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:19:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:21:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A7AD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:17 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:43:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:23 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:49:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:56:58 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: grfs have bananas metadata right? And metadata is fields? And field values are arbitrary (e.g. string), or from a taxonomy (e.g select), or range (date) 14:57:25 <andythenorth> so all this stuff about categorising is just a filter stack 14:59:01 <andythenorth> if we could inspect the actions in the grf we'd know what it provides 14:59:13 <andythenorth> 'includes trains' 14:59:21 <andythenorth> 'includes houses' 14:59:22 <andythenorth> etc 14:59:50 <andythenorth> inspecting the grf might be too magucal :P 15:05:24 <andythenorth> hmm 15:05:36 <andythenorth> give em accounts, then saved searches :P 15:05:44 <andythenorth> rss feeds of their search 15:06:45 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:07:53 <andythenorth> API! 15:08:02 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 15:09:02 <andythenorth> js widget rendering search results 15:10:08 <andythenorth> embed links to all openttcdoop grfs on ottdcoop site, all pikka grfs on pikka site, all usa grfs on usa set site etc 15:14:18 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 15:14:37 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.180] has joined #openttd 15:19:11 *** ben1066 [~quassel@2a00:dcc0:eda:89:14:179:e28f:960d] has joined #openttd 15:21:35 <ben1066> Is there any way to make the android version more usable 15:21:42 <ben1066> it always seems that everything on screen is too small 15:22:40 <Rubidium> 1) there is no android version, 2) the version that you have is just the normal version that runs on android, 3) not without a massive amount of effort or a significantly bigger screen 15:23:10 <ben1066> Ah okay 15:23:26 <ben1066> There isn't any way to make the UI more touch friendly? 15:23:31 <Rubidium> 4) none of the official developers work on an android version 15:24:07 <Rubidium> 5) design rules for the user interface are: min 640x480 screen and a mouse pointer 15:24:36 <ben1066> And let's see, android goes down to 240x320 with a fat finger :p 15:30:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A4F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:33:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2134:4e82:b816:384e] has joined #openttd 15:33:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:36:07 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 15:41:40 *** mal2_ [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has joined #openttd 15:48:52 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-118-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:58:38 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:10 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 16:02:26 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 16:03:33 <Sacro_> this isn't right 16:03:41 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [] 16:03:55 <Sacro> better 16:05:01 *** mal2_ [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:56 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:11 <supermop> hi 16:24:44 <Terkhen> hello 16:25:39 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-179.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:26:12 <LordAro> howdy 16:26:15 <Terkhen> hi LordAro 16:36:54 <planetmaker> ben1066: of course there is a way. But that way involves the path of creating a repo and supplying patches :-) 16:37:34 <ben1066> Wait, you mean effort :P Na, I'm just kidding 16:37:44 <ben1066> I like programming, but I'm crap at UI design 16:37:45 <planetmaker> the quoted 640x480 are what the current UI is designed for. Doesn't mean there can't be different solutions for smaller devices (though I wonder whether that's useful, especially given that even han.. 16:38:04 <planetmaker> ...even handheld devices have an increasingly higher screen resolution 16:38:12 <ben1066> True 16:38:16 <ben1066> But that doesnt help the SIZE of UI 16:38:20 <ben1066> The buttons are tiny 16:38:27 <planetmaker> yes, true. 16:38:38 <planetmaker> you know the opengfx biggui newgrf? 16:38:51 <planetmaker> it allows all ui sprites in 1.5x and 2x zoom 16:39:17 <planetmaker> it can be loaded statically so that it not needs activation for each game 16:39:38 <planetmaker> despite that, not all of the UI scales in all cases properly afair 16:39:47 *** team-pedro [b0197736@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:39:51 <Terkhen> I don't think that biggui would make a difference 16:39:57 <Terkhen> the control is too bad, at least on a phone 16:39:59 <team-pedro> i need help 16:40:11 <planetmaker> Terkhen: sure. But it's one step on a probably long road 16:40:31 <Terkhen> IMO the biggest problem with android support is that it would need a separate interface, and maintaining two interfaces would be a PITA :) 16:40:33 <team-pedro> haha funny lol 16:40:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:42 <planetmaker> like... better support for touch devices. On OSX there are some rudimentary support, but... 16:40:45 <Terkhen> team-pedro: we can't help you if we don't know your problem 16:41:22 <team-pedro> ok, im trying to start an internet server (which will appear on the list) how do i do this plz? 16:41:25 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, that'd be the PITA, if you have a completely different UI. Not sure it's needed entirely though. But possibly 16:41:40 <planetmaker> team-pedro: just start it as dedicated server and be done 16:41:43 <planetmaker> make sure ports are clear 16:41:46 <planetmaker> read multiplayer.txt 16:41:51 <planetmaker> @ports 16:41:51 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 16:42:06 <Terkhen> team-pedro: http://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server 16:43:13 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I tested it yesterday, maybe I made a poor selection wrt to how mouse is handled (the android app has a menu at the beginning that lets you choose) 16:43:45 <Terkhen> but even if it had better touch support the game interface would still be poorly suited for a small touchscreen 16:44:02 <planetmaker> aye. Well. I play openttd with a touchpad for years. That works for me. But ofc that still has "mouse" buttons 16:44:14 <team-pedro> i just tried the -D and it doesnt like it 16:44:24 <planetmaker> team-pedro: that's no error description 16:44:35 <team-pedro> problem with shortcut 16:44:53 *** Kylie__ [~Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:56 <planetmaker> -D is not -d 16:45:06 <Terkhen> team-pedro: and if you don't give us better error descriptions we will not be able to help you :) 16:45:07 <planetmaker> (if you didn't notice the difference) 16:45:18 <team-pedro> thats what i did and no luck 16:45:30 *** Kylie [~Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:32 <planetmaker> what's "that" 16:45:48 <planetmaker> you didn't quote a single complete line yet. Neither of input nor output 16:45:50 <team-pedro> i put -D and the end of the target 16:45:55 <planetmaker> How are we even supposed to start helping you? 16:46:10 <planetmaker> we don't even know which OS you're on yet 16:46:14 <team-pedro> says the target is not valid 16:46:19 <team-pedro> windows 7 16:46:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:46:47 <planetmaker> you need to have openttd in the path or be in the proper dir 16:46:53 <planetmaker> you know the command prompt? 16:47:16 <team-pedro> whats that 16:47:24 <planetmaker> if you just want to host a game from your home machine, just start it normally in non-dedicated mode 16:47:48 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_Prompt 16:48:03 <team-pedro> right i would like to have a game where me and my brother can play, he live 2hrs away from mand we are both on the internet 16:48:06 <Terkhen> team-pedro: if you don't know what is the command prompt it will be quite easier for you to do what planetmaker says; just start a non-dedicated server 16:48:16 <Terkhen> team-pedro: see http://wiki.openttd.org/Server 16:48:19 <planetmaker> team-pedro: ok, then don't bother with a dedicated server 16:48:23 <cornishpasty> planetmaker: Can you please explain to me how to do a very basic task on my own computer? 16:48:36 <planetmaker> cornishpasty: I'm afraid, I can't 16:48:44 <Terkhen> the link I just posted explains what you need to do, step by step 16:48:51 <team-pedro> ok thank you 16:48:55 <Terkhen> yw :P 16:49:07 <planetmaker> cornishpasty: as I have way too few info 16:49:18 <planetmaker> and the more basic the more difficult in general 16:49:18 <cornishpasty> planetmaker: exactly :P 16:49:31 <planetmaker> your point? 16:49:38 <cornishpasty> I was pretending to be team-pedro 16:50:05 <planetmaker> err.. yes. thank you 16:50:17 <cornishpasty> Don't thank me, wtf? 16:51:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:24 <SpComb> start by going to myottd... oh wait, no, that was 2008 17:13:01 <team-pedro> stilll cant work this out yet 17:14:15 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 17:14:52 <andythenorth> ho 17:15:01 <andythenorth> my two year old fails to understand the rules of a shunting puzzle 17:15:01 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_shunting_puzzle 17:15:12 <andythenorth> he just picks up thomas and puts him on another track :P 17:15:21 <team-pedro> lol 17:15:42 <TrueBrain> not to his father, I assume? :D 17:15:43 <team-pedro> andy maybe you can help, i would like to set up a server 17:15:45 <andythenorth> shunting puzzle with wooden train is challenging, the magnets are polarised (obv) differently on each end of the wagon 17:15:48 <SpComb> godmode 17:15:50 <Terkhen> andythenorth: sounds like a fine solution to me 17:16:00 <andythenorth> lateral thinking, literally 17:16:11 <Terkhen> team-pedro: as I said before, no one can help you if (s)he does not know your problem 17:16:14 <Terkhen> ask your questions directly 17:16:24 <team-pedro> ok ok 17:16:30 <Terkhen> that's faster for everyone involved :) 17:16:41 <team-pedro> to set a server to i have to change the target name? 17:16:44 <andythenorth> screenshots can help if you're using a gui 17:17:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's actually clever thinking of your 3-year old. He#s thinking out of the box. Something which adults have to learn again ;-) 17:17:34 <planetmaker> He well trancendents the problem ;-) 17:18:05 <team-pedro> its a little confus on how to set the server up 17:18:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: good thinking yes, but he fails to win :P 17:18:42 <planetmaker> :-D 17:18:56 <planetmaker> he does the OpenTTD-way of winning: "I set my own goal" :-) 17:19:01 <andythenorth> does ottd have a shunting puzzle in it? 17:19:12 <andythenorth> maybe it should :P 17:19:18 <planetmaker> I'm sure you can make one. After all you can make an ALU just with trains 17:19:39 <andythenorth> also, should I play Dwarf Fortress? Every game I ask says 'no' 17:19:53 <team-pedro> i would like to set a server for me and my bro, do i change the target name on my desktop? 17:19:55 * planetmaker has not heard of it 17:20:12 <Terkhen> team-pedro: what's a target name? 17:20:26 <team-pedro> "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" 17:20:33 <planetmaker> ehm... 17:20:36 <planetmaker> no 17:21:03 <team-pedro> then what do i change 17:21:07 <planetmaker> please just start openttd 17:21:07 <Terkhen> team-pedro: why do you prefer the dedicated solution to the non-dedicated one? 17:21:10 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you saw my comments wrt bananas above? 17:21:19 <planetmaker> and follow the steps on http://wiki.openttd.org/Server 17:21:19 <Terkhen> please use http://wiki.openttd.org/Server 17:22:34 <team-pedro> me and my bro did the stuff on the start new mutliplayer game but couldnt find it on the list of other servers 17:22:53 <planetmaker> your router blocks it probably 17:23:16 <planetmaker> @ports 17:23:16 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 17:23:19 <team-pedro> do i have to find the router and change some settings in there then 17:23:30 <planetmaker> ^^ your routers must support to forward these ports 17:23:42 <team-pedro> ok ill have a look 17:23:43 <planetmaker> so you might need to change some setting there 17:23:47 <team-pedro> ok 17:25:06 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: read, yes; but that is about it. It read like random mind-sparkles? 17:25:18 <andythenorth> that yes 17:25:24 <andythenorth> the filter stack I am serious about 17:25:34 <andythenorth> all the tree stuff I find perplexing tbh 17:26:02 <Nat_aS> Hey andy 17:26:02 <andythenorth> filter stacks are pretty common, and we can probably do it with filter in place, 17:26:05 <TrueBrain> no clue what you mean really, but please take all suggestions / ideas to the forum 17:26:08 <andythenorth> sure 17:26:08 <TrueBrain> otherwise they might get lost 17:26:23 <Nat_aS> if it were possible, would RVs that take up the whole road and can't be passed be a good idea? 17:26:30 <andythenorth> you probably have a filter stack in Jira 17:26:39 <Nat_aS> maybe RVs going the other way would pull over to let the larger truck pass. 17:27:07 <andythenorth> if Eddi|zuHause gets his way, and every tile is a state machine, then yes, that would be nice 17:27:13 <andythenorth> :D 17:27:31 <team-pedro> any idea where those settings would be? 17:27:51 <planetmaker> in your router... 17:27:53 <Nat_aS> basicly make your dump trucks into mini trains 17:27:55 <Nat_aS> :P 17:28:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4d7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:28:45 <planetmaker> quak 17:29:05 <team-pedro> ok so as long as it lts TCP and UDP it should work ok 17:29:47 <frosch123> moin :) 17:29:55 *** team-pedro [b0197736@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:30:14 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I am designing a system at work, so my mind is not really at BaNaNaS, or at english for that matter :P 17:30:22 <TrueBrain> just happy to be home atm :D 17:30:29 <Terkhen> hi frosch123 17:31:39 <frosch123> hola terkhen :) 17:36:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24343 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt polish.txt vietnamese.txt): 17:36:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:36:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by Jogio 17:36:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 36 changes by wojteks86 17:36:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi 17:39:34 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:40:32 <andythenorth> I just found my new favourite game http://precisionlabels.com/shunt/jpage330.html 17:43:44 <Nat_aS> that's not Dwarf fortress 17:44:10 <andythenorth> isn't it? 17:44:13 <andythenorth> frick 17:44:22 <Nat_aS> also requires IE4 17:44:25 <Nat_aS> who uses IE 17:45:23 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 17:45:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:45:54 <andythenorth> most of the world 17:45:59 <andythenorth> but not IE 4 :P 17:46:45 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.86.160] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:47:10 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 17:47:51 <Wolf01> hello 17:49:34 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 17:50:17 <Sacro> Nat_aS: my dwarfs all died :( 17:50:27 <frosch123> hai albert :) 17:50:33 * andythenorth might have to play this game 17:50:43 <andythenorth> seems to be a direct metaphor for life 17:51:12 <andythenorth> losing is winning 17:52:47 <Wolf01> dwarfs fortres? 17:52:49 <Wolf01> +s 17:54:33 <Nat_aS> yes 17:54:51 <Nat_aS> CUrrently my fortress is being raided by kobalds 17:54:59 <Nat_aS> and I still can't figure out the military UI 17:55:00 <Nat_aS> :C 17:55:08 <Wolf01> I hate that game, too much micro-management 17:56:01 <Wolf01> I once had a similar game, way more simple, which I enjoyed very much 17:57:06 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-234-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:58:13 <Alberth> theme-hospital? :) 17:58:48 * andythenorth has been pondering inventing (stealing?) a new tycoon / sim game 17:59:00 <andythenorth> Sid Meier's Railroads basically sucked according to reviews 17:59:15 <andythenorth> and I cba to get tied into a commercial game 17:59:20 <andythenorth> I considered buying Tropico 18:00:44 <Wolf01> tropico is good 18:00:56 <Wolf01> I have the first two 18:01:57 <Alberth> settlers? 18:02:05 *** Mazur [~mazur@546984B2.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:45 * andythenorth has ideas 18:02:49 <andythenorth> first....stories :P 18:02:59 <andythenorth> oh dear 18:03:01 <andythenorth> ideas 18:05:33 <ben1066> who here is knowledgable on the way OpenTTD does pathfinding? 18:06:32 * Alberth thinks it's done by magic 18:06:37 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-118-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:08:39 <frosch123> yay, a "WITH!!!" in a topic title :) 18:08:42 <ben1066> I wondered how it did it, trucks are the nearest to what im looking to do 18:09:15 <ben1066> And Im guessing roads and tracks etc, are completely tile based? 18:09:50 <frosch123> ottd is tile based 18:09:50 <Alberth> everything is tile based 18:10:11 <ben1066> Figures 18:10:23 <frosch123> all pathfinders work on rail-ish tracks, also road vehicles and ships 18:10:35 <frosch123> the pathfinders yapf and npf are A* 18:10:45 <frosch123> there are various cost functions for different types of tiles 18:10:59 <frosch123> depending on signal states, slope, curves,... 18:11:48 <andythenorth> hmm 18:11:51 <frosch123> [20:18] <frosch123> yay, a "WITH!!!" in a topic title :) <- he's from uk, so probably underaged: don't flame him! :) 18:11:58 * andythenorth plots an ideal game 18:12:29 <andythenorth> I liked the industry / business sim from railroad tycoon 3 (not the train bit) 18:12:37 <ben1066> How fast is A* on an alright PC 3 years ago 18:12:53 <andythenorth> take the construction / freeform fun from ottd (or minecraft, which I don't play but do look at on other people's screens sometimes) 18:12:59 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:13:00 <ben1066> how many routes could you solve/second or w/e 18:13:29 <frosch123> ben1066: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A* 18:13:41 <frosch123> the speed of pathfinders always depend on the problem to solve 18:13:47 <Alberth> ben1066: depends on your branching factor 18:13:58 <ben1066> Hmm 18:14:07 <andythenorth> take the 'nuke' option from lemmings :P 18:14:09 <frosch123> generally troublesome is when there are many paths with almost equal cost 18:14:15 <ben1066> WHats the most youd reasonably want to calculate a second 18:15:03 * andythenorth thinks it would be fun to let players play as industry owners, and also as town mayors [dictators] 18:15:07 <frosch123> it is said that at 2000 trains it starts to get quite slow 18:15:07 <Alberth> ben1066: beter ask the question the other way around, how many units do you need to move 18:15:21 <frosch123> no idea, how many crossings are reached by 2000 trains per second 18:16:09 <Alberth> ben1066: it also depends on the programming language, and how you implement it 18:16:17 <Alberth> so any number is quite useless 18:16:27 <Alberth> instead just program it, and try it 18:17:04 <Alberth> but A* is mostly defacto standard for routing, so it will probably do good enough for you 18:18:18 <ben1066> I guess 18:18:33 <ben1066> I was just wondering if it was viable with units into the thousands really 18:19:18 <frosch123> the number of units does not really matter 18:19:27 <frosch123> it's the type of terrain 18:19:36 <ben1066> Itd be 2d, with limitations 18:19:39 <frosch123> and whether units share paths, or usually do not meet 18:20:01 <ben1066> units cant collide 18:20:17 <frosch123> i do not mean colissions 18:20:25 <frosch123> i mean caching 18:20:27 <ben1066> Ah 18:20:32 <ben1066> Itd be of limited use 18:20:37 <ben1066> since their surroundings also change 18:20:43 <frosch123> if one units finds a path, and others go the same, the pf can share them 18:20:45 <andythenorth> can we have a nuke option? 18:20:52 <ben1066> Hence the issue of speed, since their routes would need to be updated relatively often 18:20:58 <andythenorth> basically call the 'crash' disaster on every vehicle you own 18:21:08 <frosch123> ben1066: well, the assumption of A* is that the whole world is known 18:21:18 <ben1066> Well it is 18:21:21 <frosch123> if you have limited sight, you have to use other exploration algorithms 18:21:24 <ben1066> Nono 18:21:28 <ben1066> It knows the whole world 18:21:32 <ben1066> its just that it MAY change 18:23:03 <Alberth> you can use D* 18:23:16 <Sacro> sigh, iudiots 18:23:28 <Sacro> yes, i'm aware my in-addr.arpa address is reversed 18:23:31 <frosch123> the map also changes in ottd :) 18:23:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: I updated that vehicle weight post 18:23:55 <andythenorth> thanks 18:24:24 * andythenorth has another silly idea 18:24:30 <andythenorth> 'go north' 18:24:35 <andythenorth> 'there is a train on this tile' 18:24:37 <Alberth> andythenorth: we have a nuke option of the program afaik, some magic key combination crashes the program in debug mode 18:24:46 <andythenorth> 'go west' 18:24:51 <andythenorth> 'there are 3 trees on this tile' 18:24:53 <frosch123> go north to meet andy? 18:24:57 <frosch123> sounds reasonable 18:24:59 <andythenorth> 'go east' 18:25:09 <andythenorth> 'this tile is coast. I can see a sign on this tile' 18:25:23 <andythenorth> 'go south' 18:25:38 <andythenorth> 'there is a town here. Would you like to read the town stats?' 18:25:48 <andythenorth> I bet we could do it, for easter 18:26:03 <ben1066> sounds like..oh what's that olde game 18:26:04 <andythenorth> we just walk the map array surely? 18:39:41 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083334.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:37 <Alberth> but most tiles are highly uninteresting, with twisty passages into every direction 18:49:08 <andythenorth> rain on my parade :P 18:49:18 <andythenorth> allow people to modify the landscape :P 18:49:47 <andythenorth> imagine building your transport empire, meanwhile there are lots of MUD players running around in a text adventure, modifying your landscape ;P 18:50:03 <andythenorth> and some other players dictating industry orders and town growth 18:50:12 <andythenorth> it would be insanely awesome 18:50:46 *** cornishpasty [users.158@brockwell.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:05 *** cornishpasty [users.158@brockwell.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 18:53:37 <andythenorth> would we make each tick wait until all players had made their turn? 18:54:14 <Alberth> nah, then people cannot stop playing and admire the trains passing by 18:54:50 <andythenorth> they have to admire the trains via text description :P 18:55:03 <andythenorth> we don't actually walk around the map in pictures :D 18:55:26 <andythenorth> ho ho ho 18:55:41 <andythenorth> we could do a flat rendering of the scene 18:55:46 <andythenorth> using only â views 18:55:48 <Alberth> http://www.ascii-art.de/ascii/t/train.txt 18:55:57 <andythenorth> nice 18:59:44 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: your reply, I do understand :P 19:00:15 <frosch123> the "[Blog]" tag is new, isn't it? 19:00:18 <frosch123> quite fitting :) 19:01:41 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:52 * frosch123 likes andy's tl;dr 19:03:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes, I added it, as people thhought it was about IS :P 19:04:17 <frosch123> haha :) 19:04:23 <Terkhen> now they'll think it is a blog about a developer coding IS :P 19:04:28 <Terkhen> it is not that easy to stop wishful thinking 19:04:37 <TrueBrain> poor Terkhen 19:04:41 <TrueBrain> does it keep you awake at night? 19:05:58 <Terkhen> me? no :P 19:06:14 <andythenorth> nothing keeps me awake at night any more 19:06:18 <Terkhen> I barely play OpenTTD anymore so I don't think about new features 19:06:23 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: pfew :D 19:06:29 * andythenorth used to be awake a lot worrying one thing or another :P 19:06:50 <andythenorth> now I eat my sleep like a person in a famine :P 19:09:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:20:29 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:20:50 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:30 *** HootzMcToke [~quassel@d50-92-68-219.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-163.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:54 <andythenorth> when are these being added to HEQS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWtJqdzw5as&feature=related 19:34:19 * andythenorth ponders some newgrf work 19:38:11 <Alberth> when they have been built for real? 19:39:00 <andythenorth> they haven't 19:39:53 <Belugas> ho... i see what __ln___ was referring... Nokia cutting 10000 jobs 19:39:55 <Belugas> bad bad 19:49:19 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> kilo.oftc.net quits: NGC3982, Ammler, OwenS, Devroush, mahmoud, HerzogDeXtEr1, Pinkbeast, Progman, dotwaffle, sla_ro|master, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:51:10 *** Netsplit over, joins: mahmoud, TheMask96, LordAro, Sacro, Progman, sla_ro|master, Devroush, HerzogDeXtEr1, Pixa, Zeknurn (+11 more) 19:51:12 <TrueBrain> wb 19:51:25 * Zuu says the same 19:54:39 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: GBerten2936, tparker, Nat_aS, Eddi|zuHause, @Belugas, guru3_, @orudge, jonty-comp, tokai|mdlx, mikegrb, (+24 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:55:07 *** Netsplit over, joins: @orudge, Born_Acorn, DDR, HootzMcToke, valhallasw, Biolunar, Wolf01, FLHerne, Kylie, kkimlabs_ (+24 more) 19:55:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 20:00:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-67-15.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:02:21 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: GBerten2936, tparker, Nat_aS, Eddi|zuHause, @Belugas, guru3_, @orudge, jonty-comp, tokai|mdlx, confound_, (+24 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 20:02:49 *** Netsplit over, joins: jonty-comp, Born_Acorn, @orudge, EyeMWing, DDR, HootzMcToke, valhallasw, Biolunar, Wolf01, FLHerne (+24 more) 20:04:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A4F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:06 <Terkhen> good night 20:07:00 * FLHerne wonders why everyone is joining and/or leavin 20:07:08 <FLHerne> good night, anyway :-) 20:07:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: opinionions on BANDIT offsets? 20:07:15 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3081/bandit-r551M.zip 20:07:21 <andythenorth> I compiled it for you ;) 20:07:36 <valhallasw> FLHerne: 'Did the server get restarted or something?' is pretty close 20:08:01 <valhallasw> FLHerne: the connections between two irc servers was closed, which means the network was split in half 20:08:34 <valhallasw> so you see 80 people leave, those 80 people saw you (among others) leave 20:10:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: your readme has quite some default values :p 20:10:39 <andythenorth> ho does it :) 20:10:42 <andythenorth> I didn't look 20:11:00 <frosch123> changelog is equally interesting :p 20:11:17 <andythenorth> he 20:11:25 <frosch123> you have no website? 20:11:43 <andythenorth> apparently not :P 20:11:55 <andythenorth> I'm at rev 551, but not very close to a release :P 20:12:06 <andythenorth> I think I released FISH at r30 or something :P 20:12:09 <frosch123> none of my grfs ever reached r551 :p 20:13:34 <frosch123> are the tires blinking or is that a rolling animation? 20:13:37 <andythenorth> blinking 20:13:45 <andythenorth> they should be removed :P 20:13:52 <andythenorth> I got distracted by offsets and such 20:14:22 <andythenorth> the offsets are...a bit odd in corners 20:14:57 <andythenorth> and very odd in depot view :) 20:15:15 <frosch123> i think your vertical view is too low 20:15:28 <andythenorth> plausible 20:15:53 <frosch123> (trailer of dragon in north direction) 20:15:54 <andythenorth> I should say - the articulated trucks: the sprites are 4/8, but the vehicle is 2/8 20:16:08 <andythenorth> yes the vertical looks too low there 20:16:34 <frosch123> same for south 20:16:49 <frosch123> the other directions seem to fit for the dragon 20:16:56 <frosch123> does the rest use the same offsets? 20:17:25 <andythenorth> yes, templated 20:17:46 <andythenorth> Grizzly / 352 are different length 20:17:52 <andythenorth> so actually different template 20:18:07 <andythenorth> you see cropping in depot? 20:19:47 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3082/depot_cropping.png 20:20:03 <frosch123> the grizzly looks also weird in horizontal and vertical direction 20:20:56 <frosch123> applies to all vehicle lists and also the vehicle details 20:21:17 <andythenorth> k 20:21:59 <andythenorth> work for me then 20:22:03 <andythenorth> thanks ;) 20:23:49 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 20:23:56 <frosch123> you're welcome :) 20:29:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:10 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 20:45:41 <frosch123> night 20:45:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4d7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:03 <andythenorth> hm 20:49:22 * andythenorth just made some trucks 20:53:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:35 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:10:43 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:16:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:04 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083334.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 21:40:37 *** Mazur [~mazur@546984B2.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:41:03 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:43:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120605113340]] 21:46:12 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 21:49:05 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:49:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:03:36 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:40 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-62-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:04:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:08:09 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-119-93.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:30 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-234-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:02 *** Hazzard [~72f6652c@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:42:25 *** Mazur [~mazur@546984B2.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:47 *** Mazur [~mazur@546984B2.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:58:30 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:52 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-179.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:32 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:22:23 *** Hazzard [~72f6652c@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:43:50 *** guru3__ [~guru3@stgt-5f702804.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:30 *** guru3_ [~guru3@stgt-5f702d4f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]