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00:02:02 *** oddjob [~oddjob@braxnacke.se] has joined #openttd 00:02:07 *** oddjob is now known as sopparus 00:02:10 <sopparus> hello 00:02:39 <sopparus> ive got version 1.2.2 and a bus got stuck in my town, it cant go anywhere even though there is a road 00:06:09 <sopparus> http://tinypic.com/r/t5hzxu/6 like that 00:06:35 <Supercheese> which bus? 00:06:37 <sopparus> the rating is ofcourse bad since the bus has been stuck for 10 years or so now 00:06:40 <sopparus> let me see 00:07:22 <Supercheese> if it's the one that appears to be at Ostra Fruwood, check to make sure there is a connecting road to the bus terminal 00:07:33 <Supercheese> station signs are blocking view 00:08:07 <sopparus> is the bus behind the airport 00:08:14 <sopparus> right behind the "radar" 00:08:18 <Supercheese> Ah 00:08:47 <Supercheese> Well, you could try holding down Ctrl and clicking the bus 00:08:55 <Supercheese> make sure it gets stopped/started 00:09:27 <Supercheese> also check to make sure there isn't another stopped bus blocking the terminal 00:12:01 <sopparus> lol there was 8 buses there 00:12:04 <sopparus> one was on stop 00:12:05 <sopparus> thanks 00:12:10 <Supercheese> you're welcome :D 00:21:24 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-064-027.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:30:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:02:42 *** sopparus [~oddjob@braxnacke.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:23:07 *** keoz [~keikoz@142.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 01:24:10 <Supercheese> Argg, can't build stations under bridges 01:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nope, annoying. especially for bus/tram stations... 01:35:32 <glx> prevents graphical glitches 01:36:40 <Supercheese> Well, at least the inverse works, tunneling underneath stations 01:38:48 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-100-198.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@37-144-120-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:49 <Supercheese> Is there any way, when renaming, to delete the line of existing text without just holding down backspace? Select all and Shift+Home don't work... 02:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 02:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the input GUI never was adapted for selecting and copy-paste 02:44:05 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-234-246.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:00 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:09 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:719e:5130:4a5a:9401] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:22:45 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 03:24:00 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 03:39:29 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 04:07:44 *** BenTrein [~bentrein@ppp-115-87-37-104.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #openttd 04:35:45 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-122-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 04:35:51 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:36:05 *** BenTrein [~bentrein@ppp-115-87-37-104.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C5A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:58:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D434.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5E56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:30:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD432C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:46:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 06:55:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@178.107.139.55] has joined #openttd 06:55:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-63-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:55:22 <andythenorth> hmm 06:55:56 <andythenorth> the world gets neither better nor happier if I reply to that newgrf changing thread, right? 06:59:27 * andythenorth should never go in the suggestions forum 07:01:05 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-12-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:02:18 <andythenorth> oh dear 07:05:13 <planetmaker> morning andythenorth and all others 07:05:23 <andythenorth> lo planetmaker 07:10:35 *** GondonyGlaz [~chatzilla@46.229.184.173] has joined #openttd 07:10:58 <GondonyGlaz> Are some Russians here? 07:12:29 <planetmaker> yes 07:12:35 <planetmaker> but I'm not one of them 07:15:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-40-46.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:22:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@178.107.139.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:33:55 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.130] has joined #openttd 07:35:50 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-40-46.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:37:09 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-15.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-40-46.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:45:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:07:27 <andythenorth> hmm 08:07:50 <andythenorth> some people seem to labour under the fallacy that open source is a collectivist, group effort towards some good end 08:08:33 <andythenorth> whereas it's a prime example of Ayn Rand-style individualism producing a beneficial result 08:08:50 <andythenorth> open source works because people pursue selfish ends 08:09:00 * andythenorth will now go away again 08:09:24 <andythenorth> philosophy is _probably_ not the anti-dote to fuckheads :P 08:10:14 <Kjetil> Go play with your closed source facistic OS 08:11:09 <andythenorth> is play allowed in the Kingdom of Apple? 08:11:34 <andythenorth> or must we all spend our time organising our music collections by genre? 08:11:44 <Kjetil> When you mention it.. probably not. You should probably go to some hipster cafe instead 08:11:48 <andythenorth> I have seen our future hell, and it is alphabetised 08:12:05 <Supercheese> and rated 1-5 stars 08:12:49 <andythenorth> and organised into playlists, to suit your every mood 08:13:23 * andythenorth writes some code 08:13:40 * Supercheese builds some airships 08:13:55 * planetmaker fixes some tunnel entrances 08:16:03 * Kjetil is going to spend the day watching a live broadcastt of a boat on TV 08:16:25 * Prof_Frink is going to jump off a cliff. 08:17:12 <andythenorth> do it when the tide is in 08:17:37 * Supercheese loves autorefit 08:18:10 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 08:18:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:18:18 <planetmaker> moin Alberth 08:18:47 <Alberth> o/ planetmaker 08:18:53 <andythenorth> o/ 08:19:00 <Alberth> hi andy 08:28:45 <Terkhen> good morning 08:28:51 <Alberth> yo Terkhen! 08:29:18 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen 08:32:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:38:36 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 08:55:59 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:56:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008998.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:57:01 <planetmaker> quak 08:57:10 <frosch123> moin :) 08:57:50 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:03 <Terkhen> hi frosch123 09:08:18 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:09:10 <frosch123> hola terkhen :p 09:09:38 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:06 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-008.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:21:11 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-100-198.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:28:02 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:28:59 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host228-221-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:37:04 <Wolf01> hello o/ 09:37:31 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 09:44:58 *** welshdragon [~anonymous@cpc8-oxfd20-2-0-cust37.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:53:07 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:57:09 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-36-194.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:02:15 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-100-198.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:06:12 *** welshdragon [~anonymous@cpc8-oxfd20-2-0-cust37.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 10:06:53 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:08:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:12:07 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has joined #openttd 10:14:50 <Zuu_> Hello 10:15:05 <andythenorth> Zuu_: ! \o/ 10:16:17 <Zuu_> Did you play any more games? I saw your PM but hav not yet had time to respond to it. 10:16:38 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:41 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has joined #openttd 10:16:54 <andythenorth> Zuu_: no more games yet 10:17:01 <andythenorth> my laptop died :P 10:17:23 <andythenorth> planetmaker Alberth yexo frosch123: fancy MP GS today ? 10:17:38 *** guru3 [~guru3@90-224-111-173-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:43 <Alberth> fine with me :) 10:17:49 <andythenorth> either FIRS NoCargoGoal, or we write this idea I had "Power Grid" :) 10:18:40 <andythenorth> "The 5 largest cities want to adopt electricity" 10:19:06 <andythenorth> "To earn tycoon status, build a power plant in each city, and deliver coal to it" 10:19:15 <planetmaker> sorry, I'm away today 10:19:16 <andythenorth> 30-40 years to get it done 10:19:23 <planetmaker> But sure you can use the server 10:19:29 <andythenorth> Default industry 10:20:03 <Zuu_> Im witing for my train home and will surely not hav stable enough internet to play on. 10:20:47 <andythenorth> could write a GS :D 10:20:56 <Terkhen> hi Zuu_ :) 10:21:02 <planetmaker> server is still running 10:21:02 <Zuu_> Hehe yep 10:21:15 <planetmaker> so it's easy to load a new game 10:21:29 *** guru3 [~guru3@90-224-111-173-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 10:22:56 <Zuu_> Collecting yearly cargo delivery statistics with exactly correct year change date is non-trivial in a GS. 10:23:19 <Zuu_> But with a few days give and take it is doable. 10:23:25 <andythenorth> could change the goal.... 10:23:29 <andythenorth> to be easier to code... 10:23:43 <andythenorth> is there a DNS problem in EU somewhere? 10:23:55 <andythenorth> various german / northern european sites are failing to resolve for me 10:24:00 <TrueBrain> lolz, too general question, answer has to be yes :P 10:24:09 * andythenorth will use down for me 10:24:28 <Rubidium> andythenorth: if you mean that /. is down for me, then yes ;) 10:24:36 <Zuu_> Possible. My Opera Mini fails at the moment but not the android default browser. 10:24:59 <andythenorth> "it's just me" 10:25:02 <andythenorth> must be this ISP 10:25:08 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 10 hours ago a major router in Germany crashed, but that is already fixed :P 10:25:22 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.1.217] has joined #openttd 10:32:24 <TrueBrain> ugh, websites where you cannot type a date, but have to select it ... I have to go back 4 years .... 10:33:48 <Terkhen> D 10:33:49 <Terkhen> :D 10:34:04 <Zuu_> Or when the leading zero for time is mandatory. 10:34:46 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I am making one of those right now 10:34:59 <andythenorth> oh 10:34:59 <TrueBrain> or otherwise annoying: in the time field, tab doesnt bring me to minutes 10:35:02 <TrueBrain> I have to CLICK to get there 10:35:11 <andythenorth> no I'm making the other way around. I have fields where you *have* to type only 10:35:24 <andythenorth> I haven't bothered testing a datepicker for Bootstrap yet 10:41:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: welcome to touchscreens :) 10:41:48 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.1.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:49 <frosch123> in 4 years you have to draw the number with your mouse on some area 10:42:07 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.223.206] has joined #openttd 10:56:27 *** welshdragon [~anonymous@cpc8-oxfd20-2-0-cust37.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:00:49 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 11:02:19 <andythenorth> so MP NoCargoGoal game later today, FIRS, maybe ~2 hours or so? 2pm UK time? 11:02:59 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:03:09 <frosch123> that's 15:00 in sane time? 11:03:23 <frosch123> :p 11:05:01 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has joined #openttd 11:05:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then join the channel so that I can give you ops so that you can command the server. Or whoever wants to play 11:05:37 <planetmaker> I'm about to leave in the next 30 minutes 11:05:51 <planetmaker> or ask ammler to give it to you later 11:06:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: do you know how to use !rcon? 11:06:05 * andythenorth doesn't 11:07:43 <frosch123> you need to be op in the channel at least or so 11:09:24 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:09:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't, but i know where to look in the source for the documentation :p 11:09:56 *** keoz [~keikoz@142.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:46 <welshdragon> Morning, Why can't I choose the 'large' option when founding towns? 11:17:09 <bolli> I thought the large option was only there for cities? 11:17:28 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:04 <planetmaker> welshdragon: that's for the SE only 11:18:11 <welshdragon> aah 11:18:23 <planetmaker> if you fund towns, you don't start big. You have to build it slowly ingame 11:23:02 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 11:23:51 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Zuu_] 11:24:10 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has joined #openttd 11:24:15 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@109.58.144.100.bredband.tre.se] has quit [] 11:24:38 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:26:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:21 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:35:02 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-120-175.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 11:45:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@37-144-244-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:46:48 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:48:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:04:55 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:05:58 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 12:06:49 <bolli> Hmm 12:07:15 <bolli> Is there any way to extract a crash log when the game just freezes and ends up getting zapped by the OS? :p 12:11:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:13 <frosch123> depends on what os you are :) 12:12:42 <frosch123> on linux you can attach a debugger, or alternatively send it signal 6 12:12:54 <frosch123> the former is better ofc 12:15:03 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:19:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c8ae:84f3:99dd:c2ec] has joined #openttd 12:19:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:21:58 <bolli> hmm 12:22:02 <bolli> I didn't get one then 12:22:05 <bolli> however: *** OpenTTD Crash Report *** 12:25:07 <planetmaker> please. Use. A. Pasteservice. Like pastebin.com. Or paste.openttdcoop.org 12:25:45 <bolli> Will do :p 12:26:00 <bolli> I'm just reading through it to see if theres anything I did to cause it.... 12:26:50 <glx> if there is an easy reason it's written at the begin 12:27:03 <bolli> ok :p 12:27:34 <bolli> http://pastebin.com/NRCbhUxx 12:27:53 <glx> segfault 12:28:47 <glx> .dmp is needed for more info 12:28:56 <bolli> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13385764/ottd/crash/crash.dmp 12:29:15 <bolli> and the interesting thing is that the sprite hasn't loaded on https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13385764/ottd/crash/crash.png 12:29:50 <bolli> on the purchase window 12:32:08 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 12:36:29 <glx> indeed crash when loading a sprite 12:37:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:37:16 * Rubidium smells (re)compiling a NewGRF while it's being used by OpenTTD 12:37:51 <bolli> Hmm 12:37:55 <bolli> Not recompiling 12:38:14 <bolli> But its in a dropbox folder that symlinked to newgrf 12:38:20 <glx> anyway broken newgrf is the more probable cause 12:38:27 <bolli> probably.... 12:38:39 <bolli> I'm fiddling with one currently... 12:40:21 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I do that all the time :) 12:40:29 <andythenorth> and sometimes...it causes a crash :) 12:42:12 <Hirundo> I recently changed NML to unlink the file before writing, but that only helps on linux-y systems 12:42:37 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 12:47:40 <SquireJames> Wow I overslept 12:48:01 <Fremen> join the club :p 12:51:04 <Fremen> anyone know a great 'infinite' server? as in no inflation, going hundreds of years :p just wondering how a map looks like after 1000 years of town growth 12:51:37 *** bolli1 [~Sam@193.221.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:42 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.223.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:28 <SquireJames> like something from Judge Dredd I imagine 13:07:28 <Terkhen> Fremen: open the multiplayer server list ingame and sort it by years 13:07:45 <Terkhen> the server that has been in the same savegame for 11000 ingame years looks promisingly eternal 13:08:25 <Fremen> hehe yeah, but would be bnice to be in one when it's around starting date 13:08:29 <Fremen> nice* 13:08:58 <Fremen> I'll think about running a server by myself 13:09:06 <Fremen> hoping that people find it :p 13:09:45 <Terkhen> given the client/server ratio, that is unlikely unless your server offers something that the others do not 13:12:13 <Fremen> i see 13:12:36 <Fremen> I should know more aout huw much network traffic a server generates 13:12:42 <Fremen> i mean this game 13:12:47 <TrueBrain> that is all well documented :) 13:12:55 <Fremen> oh 13:13:09 <TrueBrain> short answer: a non-issue for any non-dialup :P 13:13:24 <Fremen> nice 13:13:32 <TrueBrain> CPU on the other hand ... 13:13:37 <Fremen> I have a bandwidth limit though 13:13:48 <Rubidium> unless your broadband is capped at 500 MB/month or so 13:13:59 <Fremen> haha 100Gb a month:)p 13:14:06 <TrueBrain> @calc 500*1024 / 2 / 30 / 24 / 60 / 60 13:14:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0987654320988 13:14:24 <TrueBrain> @calc 500*1024 / 2 / 30 / 24 / 60 13:14:24 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 5.92592592593 13:14:30 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 13:14:32 <TrueBrain> even then you can run 6 people Rubidium, 24/7 :P 13:14:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, my math is in failure somewhere ... what-ever :P 13:15:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 2*60*60*24*30 13:15:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 5184000 13:15:28 <TrueBrain> I am lost :( 13:15:47 <Rubidium> 5GB / client a month if connected 24/7 13:16:05 <Fremen> for what size of map? 13:16:08 <TrueBrain> any 13:16:08 <Warod> hah 13:16:11 <Rubidium> and actually using the 2 kB/s 13:16:26 <TrueBrain> map size is totally irrelevant for network traffic 13:16:30 <Fremen> okay 13:16:51 <Fremen> so a 6 player would result in 30GB per month 13:16:59 <Fremen> if continuously connecte 13:17:00 <Fremen> d 13:17:00 <TrueBrain> worst case, sure 13:17:29 <Rubidium> and that includes the players building stuff, chatting and such 13:17:54 <Rubidium> if they don't do that you would use less 13:18:22 <Fremen> where can I find info on what ports to forward and such? 13:18:26 <TrueBrain> @port 13:18:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 13:18:27 <TrueBrain> @ports 13:18:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 13:18:30 <Rubidium> ugh... my work laptop is so unfit for duty 13:18:31 <TrueBrain> owh, both work :P 13:18:56 <TrueBrain> Fremen: or more general, README.txt 13:19:07 <Warod> @pots 13:19:56 <Warod> Damn. It didn't fall into my trick of methods of antique communications. ;) 13:20:13 <Rubidium> database heavy application (somewhat computation heavy as well) and not reaching more than 5% CPU; the rest is lost in waiting for (disk) IO of the DBMS 13:20:33 <TrueBrain> sucks to be you :D 13:21:09 <Warod> I just bought 250 GB OCZ Vertex 4 for my work/hobbies/freetime laptop. ;) 13:21:21 <Rubidium> what antique communication? 13:21:25 <Warod> POTS 13:21:29 <TrueBrain> and pans 13:21:30 <Rubidium> try implementing RFC6214 13:21:41 <Rubidium> now that's old fashioned 13:22:03 <TrueBrain> RFC1149 I like more 13:22:19 <TrueBrain> as IPv6 is n ot old fashioned 13:24:20 <TrueBrain> RFC2549 at least has pictures 13:26:35 <Rubidium> "In some locations, such as New Zealand, a significant proportion of carriers are only able to execute short hops, and only at times when the background level of photon emission is extremely low. This will impact the availability and throughput of the solution in such locations." 13:28:07 <Fremen> darn can't join those longterm servers because of the version 13:29:55 <bolli1> Reading back up... 30GB seems a lot more than I use.... 13:30:21 <bolli1> I run a server thats got a few people connected at any time, and it barely uses 4-5GB/ month.... 13:30:23 <Fremen> that's good news 13:30:40 <TrueBrain> bolli1: what about "worst case" didnt you understand? :) 13:31:17 <bolli1> Worst case can't be 5-6x worse? :p 13:31:20 *** bolli1 is now known as bolli 13:31:34 <TrueBrain> there is a limitation on the worst case? Kewl 13:31:52 <Rubidium> bolli: how long does it take to go from London to New York? 13:32:45 <bolli> As long as a piece of string. Whereas, data usage is fairly predictable :p 13:33:41 <Rubidium> I'd say the time you need to get from London to New York is fairly predictable as well 13:34:10 <bolli> But it depends how you get there ;) 13:35:00 <bolli> I'm just saying that 30GB is a significant overexaggeration in my experience :p 13:35:13 <TrueBrain> it is a WORST CASE 13:35:24 <bolli> *for the worst case 13:35:26 <Alberth> worst case != realistic estimate 13:35:33 <bolli> fine... :p 13:36:45 <Rubidium> also, it's actually not the worst case. It's the measured average on a busy server for a few hours times two 13:37:04 <Rubidium> in absolute worst case it can use as much as the bandwidth to your server allows 13:38:05 <TrueBrain> that would be a bug :) 13:39:11 <Fremen> can't find a link to the 1.2.1 version :( just want to check one of those insane servers :p 13:39:31 <Rubidium> Fremen: openttd.org/download-stable/<version> 13:40:07 <Fremen> awesoem thnx 13:40:11 <Fremen> awesome* 13:40:40 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:44:36 *** Zuu_ [~chatzilla@58833e24.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:52 <Fremen> lol some serve ris running on hard, inflation on in year 4000+ 13:47:57 <Fremen> doesn't look fun :p 13:48:32 <Alberth> some people prefer a hard game 13:50:08 <Fremen> inflation model is just wrong after so much time 13:51:00 <andythenorth> Terkhen: Yexo MP NoCargoGoal with FIRS ? 13:51:35 <Rubidium> bolli: did some calculations and if you didn't change the frame_freq, then you have, on average 1/6th of a player connected 13:52:00 <Rubidium> as ~1850 bytes per second are used for announcing the frames 13:52:32 <andythenorth> OpenTTD runs in 10.7 btw 13:52:36 <andythenorth> not full screen o/c :P 13:52:47 <Rubidium> bolli: oh... sorry, 1 player on average 13:53:22 <andythenorth> V453000: MP NoCargoGoal FIRS? 13:57:10 <Zuu_> andythenorth: The name is NoCarGoal :-) 13:57:21 <andythenorth> oops :P 13:57:25 <andythenorth> Zuu_: you're on a train? 13:57:29 <Zuu_> yep 13:57:46 <andythenorth> can't play MP? 13:58:09 <Zuu_> I'm taking a look on the other suggestions for the GS and adding those that are not to complicated to add. 13:58:20 <Zuu_> I fear not. 13:59:58 <Terkhen> andythenorth: sorry, I'm doing house chores now :P 14:00:17 <andythenorth> np 14:04:03 <Zuu_> What is the unit size of Steel cargo? 1 tone? 2 tonnes? 0.5 tonnes? 14:04:38 <Zuu_> Eg what does one internal cargo unit correspond to in the GUI? 14:04:58 <Rubidium> use {CARGO} 14:05:06 <Rubidium> and don't really care ;) 14:05:13 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-101-95-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 14:05:37 <Zuu_> How are the two params for {CARGO} joined togeather to one integer parameter? 14:05:53 <Rubidium> it takes two parameters 14:05:55 <Zuu_> Or does {CARGO} grab two integers from the param list? 14:06:26 <Zuu_> amount + cargo id? or the other way around? 14:06:34 <Rubidium> IIRC the other way around 14:06:55 <Matulla> hi all ,Question if i got a station laft and right on the city same station name the one is near to a powerplant does it has a effect if i transport cole to the near or far station all acept cole 14:08:19 <Zuu_> It doesn't matter to which part of a station that you transport cargo to. 14:08:32 <Zuu_> As long as all parts belong to the same station name. 14:08:43 <Matulla> ok thanks 14:08:53 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-101-95-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 14:09:15 <Fremen> lol 14:09:17 <TrueBrain> hit and run 14:09:20 <Fremen> indeed 14:09:26 <Fremen> no ethics ! 14:09:36 <TrueBrain> ethics is for people who give a shit 14:09:45 <Fremen> well I do :s 14:10:05 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:43 <Rubidium> noob IRC etiquette/ethics is to expect an answer within milliseconds, if not you disconnect, otherwise you disconnect just after the first answer was given 14:11:46 <Fremen> mIRC ethics = connect and never manually disconnect 14:12:17 <TrueBrain> and then you end up with 116 people in a channel 14:12:24 <Fremen> and tha's ok :p 14:12:31 <TrueBrain> I once considered writing a bot who kicks anyone who hasn't said anything for 7+ days :P 14:12:33 <TrueBrain> just to see what happens 14:12:38 <Fremen> bad idea 14:12:46 <TrueBrain> depends on what your goal is :D 14:12:50 <Fremen> hehe 14:13:27 <TrueBrain> mine would be to see how many really notice :) 14:13:28 <Rubidium> just use @names ;) 14:13:32 <Fremen> well on quakenet I'm still in channels from my 2001 UT clan which has disbanded 10 years ago :p 14:16:16 <frosch123> @calc 80*5*12*11 14:16:16 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 52800 14:16:41 <Zuu_> No matter which order I provide cargo_id or cargo_amount, the string output ends just before the {CARGO} code. :-( 14:17:59 <Fremen> hm is there a server function to automatically bankrupt playr companies after not logging in for xx years? 14:18:04 <Zuu_> I guess I need to wait until I can run OpenTTD from a debugger and see what goes wrong. Maybe dual param string codes are not (yet) supported in GS/AIs? 14:18:41 <Zuu_> Fremen: IIRC yes. See your openttd.cfg 14:19:15 <Zuu_> there are one value for passworded companies and one for unprotected companies 14:19:30 <Zuu_> IIRC, the name to look for is 'autoclean' 14:21:42 <Fremen> okay thnx 14:21:47 * Fremen leaves channel 14:21:48 <Fremen> :p 14:22:32 <Fremen> the one thing I'm really worried about is server restarts 14:22:45 <Fremen> if my power fails or something is it easy to restart it? 14:22:52 <Fremen> the server ofc :p 14:23:10 <Zuu_> If you have autosave enabled 14:23:19 <Zuu_> You can resume from there 14:23:23 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 14:23:27 <Fremen> great 14:23:36 <Zuu_> However, all passwords will be lost if you load an autosave. 14:24:16 <Fremen> ouch 14:32:30 *** Terkhen changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only 14:32:37 <Terkhen> X 14:32:38 <Terkhen> 14:33:09 <Terkhen> meh, this computer is starting to get very stupid 14:37:09 *** welshdragon [~anonymous@cpc8-oxfd20-2-0-cust37.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 14:42:14 <bolli> Right, another question.... 14:42:34 <bolli> How do I Make a train with push-pull carriages? 14:43:08 <bolli> IE- I have a locomotive with a DBSO, how do I make that work? 14:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really possible, but some NewGRFs "cheat" in switching around the graphics of the engine and the last wagon. but this may be tedious if you have lots of possible combinations 14:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you would read "vehicle_is_reversed" in a switch, in that case 14:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> for the engines 0 means "draw engine" and 1 "draw wagon", for the last wagon the other way around 14:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> note that this will have horrible side effects if you have wagons of different length 14:51:19 *** Zuu_ [~chatzilla@58833e24.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-40-46.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you should also check "extra_callback_info1" to only do this switching on the map, not in the depot or vehicle lists/details 14:57:21 *** siridle [siridle@1407ds1-hb.1.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 15:17:35 <bolli> hmm 15:18:39 <bolli> So theres no nice way to do it? 15:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no 15:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs support for driving backwards in the game mechanics, which is a difficult task, which nobody dared to implement yet 15:23:40 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 15:38:19 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 15:38:22 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:48 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-122-243.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:01:51 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-36-194.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:34:14 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-170-200-26.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:49 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:09 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #openttd 17:04:49 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:42 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:52 <Muxy> Yexo: about ET_VEHICLE_OLD, i wrote a topic at tt-forums with a poll. AI writers will be able to reply and choose what they want. 17:06:40 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 17:10:09 <Alberth> seems like a good idea 17:10:28 <Alberth> although you may not get agreement :p 17:11:28 <Alberth> I was wondering whether you could keep an administration yourself, ie you know when you bought it, and you know its lifetime (I hope) 17:13:07 <Alberth> if you don't know its lifetime, another option is to set the event to something early, and you can keep an administration from that moment perhaps 17:13:22 <Muxy> Alberth: i think this event will permit to avoid a loop on all vehicles and check the age 17:13:44 <Alberth> true 17:13:56 <Muxy> and you know that looping in script uses lot of cpu time 17:14:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:14:28 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 17:15:13 <Muxy> and if you look at dictatorAI (i dont really know about other), it builds a lot of vehicle. 17:15:37 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:40 <Alberth> what I mean is that you store the end time at the moment you buy the vehicle 17:16:53 <Muxy> sure 17:17:05 <Muxy> but you need some trigger to send it to depot and renew it 17:17:28 <Alberth> you don't do daily or monthly loops or so? 17:18:07 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:09 <Muxy> i dont write AI Scripts 17:18:13 <Alberth> just add a check whether the first end time has pased or not 17:18:21 <Alberth> ah, ok :) 17:18:39 <Muxy> but if someone request it for its AI it's just because the daily/monthly loop are to heavy 17:19:26 <Alberth> that seems likely :) 17:19:41 <TrueBrain> why not make a parameter (explicit) with the time till it ages? 17:19:52 <TrueBrain> so you get first one with -1 year, than 0 year, than <whatever> year? 17:20:23 <Alberth> TrueBrain: should be limited to the last -12 to +12 months, like the player 17:20:52 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I really wouldnt know when these things are triggered; but Yexo worries about that it triggers 3 times, if I read this correctly 17:20:57 <Muxy> TrueBrain: Script parameter ? 17:21:01 <TrueBrain> which indeed is wrong, to trigger the same identical event 3 times 17:21:05 <TrueBrain> so .. just add a parameter ;) 17:21:30 <TrueBrain> Muxy: in ScriptEventVehicleIsOld 17:21:33 <TrueBrain> it now carries only vehicle_id 17:21:40 <Muxy> TrueBrain: not 3 times, but 2 and 1 every year after lifetime 17:21:41 <TrueBrain> so add some parameter to indicate which version to it 17:21:53 <TrueBrain> something like 'year' or what-ever 17:22:26 <Muxy> who sets the parameter ? Script 17:22:30 <TrueBrain> then the events are no longer identical 17:22:34 <TrueBrain> no, ofc not 17:22:43 <TrueBrain> that is silly talk 17:22:48 <TrueBrain> why would a script set the parameter of the event? 17:23:00 <Muxy> to be warned when requested 17:23:06 <TrueBrain> que? 17:23:09 <TrueBrain> that makes little sense ... 17:23:12 <Muxy> like an alarm clock 17:23:16 <TrueBrain> like I said: exactly like the vehicle_id 17:23:19 <TrueBrain> but just an extra parameter 17:23:49 <Muxy> goal is to trigger this event only once regardless of the version 17:24:00 <TrueBrain> I think that is wrong 17:24:11 <TrueBrain> which is what I am saying 17:24:28 <Muxy> ok, but Yexo said : this event must be triggered only once 17:24:38 <TrueBrain> and I disagree; I suggest a counter purposal 17:25:57 <Muxy> yop but as it will be triggered, the script must take action : send to depot, and renew 17:26:01 <TrueBrain> so, to summarize: trigger the event N times as it is needed, just like a human player gets the event, but add a parameter to the event which indicates how many years (negative for future) the vehicle has been expired 17:26:42 <TrueBrain> avoids identical events being triggered under different circumstances, and maintains the NoAI philosohy: do the same for AIs as happens for players 17:27:19 <Muxy> and in the script, what will be the logic to choose the event version to take action... just kiss, and with 1 event it will be ok 17:27:36 <TrueBrain> I disagree, and your poll shows exactly why it is wrong 17:28:02 <TrueBrain> the fact you have multiple moments you can trigger this event, shows there is not a single moment you should do it 17:29:01 <Muxy> yes but in the script you just need 1 trigger to perform action. if you have many triggers, then you must have a logic to choose what version you will use 17:29:17 <TrueBrain> if (year != -1) continue; 17:29:22 <TrueBrain> owh no .. the logic is killing me :D 17:29:34 <TrueBrain> it is identical to filtering which events you care about ;) 17:30:07 <Muxy> try to optimze the script by removing all useless things 17:30:19 <TrueBrain> by removing freedom of choice? 17:30:22 <TrueBrain> sounds a wrong kind of optimization 17:30:39 <TrueBrain> for example, you don't need the event, as Alberth pointed out 17:31:04 <TrueBrain> personally, I would like to know every year my vehicle is not renewed 17:31:07 <TrueBrain> it can indicate issues and problems 17:31:14 <TrueBrain> a player does receive this information .. and an AI won't? 17:32:31 <TrueBrain> the whole NoAI framework is build on: if the player can do it, the AI can too. If the player can't? Neither can the AI 17:32:43 <Rubidium> why not just add the date of the event? That's probably useful for all events 17:32:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how would that help? :) 17:32:57 <Rubidium> after all, the user can see the date of the event as well 17:33:08 <TrueBrain> I think you misunderstand the issue :) 17:33:08 <Muxy> ok, i dont care about sending this event once or many. Just following Yexo wills. better have this discussion with Yexo, or write something in the tt-forum thread. 17:33:15 <Rubidium> I probably will 17:33:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the EVENT is now triggered every year, from -1 year from expiring 17:33:45 <TrueBrain> with no indication inside the EVENT it is different 17:33:55 <TrueBrain> so year N you get the event, year N+1, N+2, ... 17:34:18 <TrueBrain> Yexo indicates in the bug tracker he wants it only triggered once 17:34:25 <TrueBrain> for example, at -1 years of expiring 17:34:47 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:53 <TrueBrain> I can understand that partily, as every year you get an identical event, which is weird 17:34:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:09 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 17:35:10 <TrueBrain> so Rubidium, adding the date the event is triggered doesn't really help in that solution; or I must understand you wrong ofcourse :) 17:35:15 <Muxy> but for this event, goal is to replace asap a vehicle 17:35:23 <TrueBrain> Muxy: in your AI, maybe 17:35:25 <TrueBrain> mine might not 17:35:33 <Rubidium> if you want to send only one, then just send the first one 17:35:34 <Muxy> depend on AI's Goal 17:35:39 <TrueBrain> I might always want my vehicles to be 5 years over date 17:35:52 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: which is wrong, in my opinion; just send one every year, like a player gets them 17:36:08 <TrueBrain> why make that desision for the AI writer? 17:36:13 <Rubidium> then what *is* the problem? 17:36:19 <TrueBrain> I don't know :D 17:36:31 <TrueBrain> I only suggest to add a paramter with the year to expire, for clarity sake 17:36:32 <Rubidium> and how does adding the date of the event not help? 17:36:41 <TrueBrain> how does it? 17:36:41 <Muxy> sending event only once (yexo will)or many times (truebrain will) 17:36:57 <Rubidium> you can calculate the overdue age 17:37:02 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you can anyway ;) 17:37:13 <TrueBrain> but isn't sending the year as parameter more clear? 17:37:14 <Rubidium> and it might be very useful for all other events that you know whether it's recent or not 17:37:17 <TrueBrain> at least, visible to the user? :) 17:37:18 <Muxy> AIScript dont care about event date. Goal is to renew vehicle asap (in a competion way of playing) 17:37:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: on that last part I agree, but that is something else :D 17:37:32 <Rubidium> like industry closure 17:37:43 <TrueBrain> having an event date sounds like a really good idea 17:37:48 <TrueBrain> but it doesn't really solve this problem at hand 17:37:57 <TrueBrain> it makes it rather annoying to calculate it tbh :) 17:38:53 <Rubidium> just use superlib or so to implement that 17:39:01 <TrueBrain> waste of opcodes tbfh 17:39:13 <Rubidium> then you can also use it in your normal code to renew them two years before expiring 17:39:17 <TrueBrain> and personally, I think events should be unique 17:39:19 <Muxy> other way : event can be sent every year, starting from buying with parameter : year remaning till lifetime 17:39:29 <Rubidium> then you need the date 17:39:45 <Rubidium> as (almost) all other events are inherently ununique as well 17:39:51 <TrueBrain> are they? :) 17:40:13 <Rubidium> industry closure, is that unique? No, after a few year the replacement industry closes and sends the exact same event 17:40:14 <TrueBrain> maybe I should word it better, but when I get an event VEHICLE_ARRIVED 17:40:24 <TrueBrain> it is rather unique, as in: I know exactly what happened based on the parameters 17:40:28 <TrueBrain> which arrived where and when 17:40:32 <Rubidium> production changes: same idea 17:40:40 <Rubidium> industry opened: same idea 17:40:46 <TrueBrain> I think you have an other understand of unique, so please listen for a bit 17:40:53 <TrueBrain> when I get an industry opened, I know where and what industrry opened 17:40:59 <TrueBrain> so I know all there is need to know 17:41:06 <TrueBrain> when I receive a vehicle-old, I .. know .. too little 17:41:10 <TrueBrain> is it -1 year? 0 year? 17:41:17 <TrueBrain> in that way, I mean unique 17:41:23 <TrueBrain> it misses a constraint 17:41:28 <TrueBrain> maybe that is more clear to understand? 17:42:06 <TrueBrain> I tried to write all events to send just enough information, that you can uniquely identify an event 17:42:20 <TrueBrain> a production change, you know which industry changed; there can be no doubt about it 17:42:30 <TrueBrain> you get what I mean now? 17:42:39 <Rubidium> actually, that may very well be an previous industry 17:42:50 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:42:51 <TrueBrain> you are streching 17:43:08 <TrueBrain> but, to make it easier: lets assume I read my events as soon as they arrive 17:43:12 <Rubidium> and I reckon you get a vehicle ID with the vehicle old age event just like you only get an industry ID with the new industry event 17:44:07 <TrueBrain> but we never send 2 events for the same industry ID ;) 17:44:14 * Rubidium wonders what the difference is between: AIIndustry.GetLocation(event.GetIndustryID()) and AIVehicle.GetAgeLeft(event.GetVehicleID()) 17:44:45 <TrueBrain> the industry-open / industrID event is unique, in the sense .. ugh, I have been over this :P 17:44:51 <TrueBrain> dammit, I run out of ways to explain this :) 17:45:21 <TrueBrain> take the crash event 17:45:27 <TrueBrain> would you say the crash_site parameter is unneeded? 17:45:31 <TrueBrain> as you can ask the vehicle where it is? 17:45:31 <Rubidium> if you read the event queue immediately the vehicle age event is unique as well 17:46:03 <TrueBrain> okay, let me try this differently .. 17:46:07 <TrueBrain> if you remove all silly raceconditions 17:46:11 <Rubidium> no, by the time you read the queue the vehicle might be gone. And it might be hindsight that the same happens with most other events 17:46:12 <TrueBrain> like industry open / close / open under the same ID 17:46:14 <TrueBrain> silly stuff like that 17:46:27 <TrueBrain> if we assume that you are "quick" enough to be in time to read industry data like that 17:46:42 <TrueBrain> in that assumption, all current events are identifyable by their parameters 17:46:44 <TrueBrain> right? 17:46:57 <Rubidium> yes 17:47:06 <TrueBrain> now we have this vehicle-old event 17:47:24 <TrueBrain> if the event arrives, as script, you miss a vital piece of information 17:47:28 <TrueBrain> a crash event, happens when you crashed 17:47:33 <TrueBrain> industry open, when you open an industry 17:47:38 <TrueBrain> vehicle-old .. well .. -1 year, 0 year, N years .. 17:47:42 <TrueBrain> it can be a wide variaty of things 17:47:50 <TrueBrain> you see the subtle difference here? 17:48:20 <Rubidium> if you are "quick" enough you get that info with GetAgeLeft 17:48:23 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:48:42 <TrueBrain> the main difference is, the "quick" is in other magnitudes here 17:48:57 <TrueBrain> I personally would find it rather unclear to receive a vehicle-old, which might be any of the above cases 17:48:59 <TrueBrain> I have no clue which 17:49:04 <TrueBrain> where industry-open is .. well ... 17:49:06 <TrueBrain> duh :P 17:49:18 <TrueBrain> that said, I do agree that industry-open should also get IndustryType as parameter 17:50:03 <TrueBrain> in all cases, I think Yexo has a long enough backlog to laugh his ass off ;) 17:50:15 <Rubidium> but does it matter? If you handle the queue after a year and you want to use the event to renew vehicles that are 5 years overdue. Do you use the "5" value of your proposed event, or the GetAgeLeft of the moment you read/handle the event? 17:50:38 <Rubidium> because in the former case you renew them at over due age 6 17:50:54 <TrueBrain> I agree with that; my issue is that the event is unclear 17:50:55 <Rubidium> IMO AIVehicleLost is much more troublesome 17:51:02 <TrueBrain> it becomes this grey area effect 17:51:13 <TrueBrain> and from a lazy-point-of-view, a parameter iseasiest 17:51:13 <Rubidium> as that lovely even can easily be read when the vehicle is not lost at all 17:51:27 <TrueBrain> the Lost one is annoying even as player 17:51:33 <TrueBrain> too often I get that years after the vehicle got lost 17:51:36 <TrueBrain> as my news is backlogged :P 17:51:54 <TrueBrain> the old-event, I see more as: I want to trigger at 2 years, and don't want to do any complex blabla :) 17:52:02 <Rubidium> I rather would like to avoid adding parameters to the events as all it does is make the queue larger (in memory) when the queue isn't read at all 17:52:14 <TrueBrain> boo-fucking-hoo 17:52:20 <TrueBrain> lets not worry about 8 bytes more or less please :D 17:52:24 <TrueBrain> you wanted to add the date ;) 17:52:29 <TrueBrain> now that consumes memory :P 17:52:34 <Rubidium> yes, so I can trash old events 17:52:37 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:38 <TrueBrain> don't start with the memory argument :) 17:52:43 <TrueBrain> it is a non-issue 17:52:49 <TrueBrain> how much memory does the map take? 17:52:52 <TrueBrain> how much does a Squirrel VM take? 17:52:58 <TrueBrain> one parameter more or less won't show up :) 17:53:25 <Rubidium> one not, but it won't take long to add even more "might be useful" parameters 17:53:39 <TrueBrain> seriously, even with 10 parameters each event 17:53:41 <TrueBrain> it is a non-issue :) 17:53:48 <Rubidium> because AIVehicle.foo(event.GetVehicleID() is much more complex than event.foo() 17:54:39 <TrueBrain> anyway, if anything I much rather have N events than one, per vehicle 17:54:45 <Rubidium> the problem with the events is that there is NO maximum bound on the amount in the queue, so for AIs that don't care about events it is a (massive) memory leak 17:54:50 <TrueBrain> and to make them somewhat unique in the queue, I would add a year parameter 17:54:56 <TrueBrain> feel free to disagree :D 17:55:06 <Fremen> aha server is running for testing, incredibly easy and light in cpu 17:55:07 <TrueBrain> that is a completely different problem :) 17:55:13 <TrueBrain> on which I do agree btw, and it shoudl be fixed :) 17:56:13 <Muxy> ok men, now let's place in 2 cases : competitive AI and Lazy AI 17:56:31 <Muxy> in a competitive way, the best is to replace vehicle asap, right ? 17:56:48 <TrueBrain> not really 17:56:54 <TrueBrain> I would replace them a bit later, depending on my wallet 17:56:59 <TrueBrain> sure, it is good for standing 17:57:03 <TrueBrain> but replacing them after 2 years is even better 17:57:10 <TrueBrain> so competitive, if I had the money, I would replace them every 2 years 17:57:12 <Muxy> hum yes, you reached the point 17:57:25 <TrueBrain> there are so many variables there 17:57:28 <Muxy> i forget the money point 17:57:31 <TrueBrain> you cannot say: this should be done, or this 17:57:37 <TrueBrain> it is up to the writer of an AI 17:58:02 <TrueBrain> (it is why the NoAI framework doesn't do anything for you :P) 17:58:07 <Rubidium> so... add the date to the event, add a GetAgeLeft to the AIVehicleAncientEvent that does Vehicle.AgeLeft(ev.GetVEhicleID())-current_date+ev.GetDate() 17:58:09 <Muxy> ok, that's why i changed the poll with another option 17:58:23 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I guess that would work too, yes 17:58:33 <TrueBrain> and I would add a "max-age-of-event" setting 17:58:37 <TrueBrain> defaulted like 5 years 17:58:39 <Muxy> and the parameter would be usefull to know how many years it remain before lifetime 17:58:39 <TrueBrain> removing events older 17:58:54 <Rubidium> (except when the vehicle is removed) 17:59:13 <TrueBrain> it does leave the race conditions of industry-open, industry-close 17:59:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:33 <Muxy> the event can be triggered every year from begining, indicating remaining year from life-time 17:59:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:49 <TrueBrain> Muxy: can a player do that? 17:59:50 <Muxy> then the AI choose when its the best moment to replace it 18:00:06 <Muxy> do what ? 18:00:15 <TrueBrain> get an event from the beginngn of a vehicle 18:00:16 <Muxy> checking its vehicle list every year ? 18:00:26 <Muxy> or periodically ? 18:00:40 <TrueBrain> no, by events (news-items, etc) 18:00:49 <TrueBrain> the basic rule always applies: AIs can only get what players get too 18:00:52 <Muxy> ah 18:00:56 <TrueBrain> an AI can poll the vehicle list every year too 18:01:08 <Muxy> yes but cpu consuming 18:01:14 <TrueBrain> the rule might sound a bit bitchy etc, but it keeps AIs fair 18:01:21 <TrueBrain> they can never cheat, as they can never do anything a player can't 18:01:37 <Muxy> but if you say : AI should do what players can do... 18:01:47 <glx> AI cpu usage is limited anyway 18:02:04 <Muxy> how many vehicle a player can build in a finite period of time ? 18:02:16 <TrueBrain> 1 every tick 18:02:18 <TrueBrain> as many as an AI can 18:02:42 <Muxy> by duplicating vehicle, yes 18:02:54 <Muxy> but with other station list, ... 18:03:49 <TrueBrain> streching ... okay, let me rephrase: an AI never receives or can obtain information in a way a player cannot 18:04:55 <Rubidium> actually, then we should trash events much sooner ;) 18:05:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: sometimes I get events years after event :P 18:05:10 <TrueBrain> I like those popups 18:05:12 <TrueBrain> and they are SLOW :P 18:05:47 <Rubidium> events for uses have a "best use before" date 18:06:34 *** balck_coffee [~blue@201.137.203.169] has joined #openttd 18:08:05 <Wolf01> gtg 18:08:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host228-221-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:08:47 <Rubidium> s/uses/users/ 18:19:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24498 /trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt: 18:19:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:19:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 32 changes by kazzie 18:21:31 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:36 <Fremen> damn addicted to this game 18:36:53 <Fremen> new games come out every month now and I just want to play this :d 18:43:12 <Alberth> think of all the money you're saving! :) 18:44:13 *** George is now known as Guest4489 18:44:17 *** George [~George@83.136.241.246] has joined #openttd 18:44:53 <Fremen> hehe :D 18:45:34 <Fremen> ah well TL2 will keep me busy from 31th august though 18:45:57 <Fremen> great thing with openttd is you can play it together with otehr games and activities :p 18:46:42 <TrueBrain> nope; there is a law against that 18:46:44 <TrueBrain> we will sue you 18:50:05 <Fremen> the police as in my gf? :p 18:50:16 <TrueBrain> why is the police in your gf? 18:50:19 <TrueBrain> this is a bit odd story 18:50:26 *** Guest4489 [~George@83.136.241.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:53:09 *** GondonyGlaz [~chatzilla@46.229.184.173] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 18:55:20 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:55:29 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:58:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD432C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD432C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:28 <Alberth> the police is only for finding the guys that violate a low, which is not necessary here, we already know you do 18:58:37 <Alberth> *law 18:58:46 <TrueBrain> *lol 18:58:47 <TrueBrain> :D 18:58:59 <Alberth> :D 19:03:49 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:03:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:12:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:14:13 <andythenorth> my named anchor is not working :( 19:14:42 <andythenorth> meh 19:17:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:21:54 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c8ae:84f3:99dd:c2ec] has joined #openttd 19:21:55 *** glx is now known as Guest4495 19:21:55 *** glx_ is now known as glx 19:22:01 *** Chrill [Chrill@cpc3-harb8-2-0-cust74.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:18 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 19:28:24 *** Guest4495 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c8ae:84f3:99dd:c2ec] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:01 *** SquireJames [52081a66@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:34:09 *** SquireJames [52081a66@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:34:38 *** SquireJames [52081a66@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 19:34:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:34:53 *** welshdragon [~anonymous@cpc8-oxfd20-2-0-cust37.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:17 <Fremen> anyone mind testing joining my server? 19:35:26 *** SquireJames [52081a66@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:36 <Fremen> not everything is set up yet but just want to know if that works :p 19:35:59 <bolli> what version? :p 1.2.2? 19:36:33 <Fremen> ye 19:36:39 <bolli> whats it called? :p 19:36:43 <bolli> I'll give it a go... 19:36:54 <Fremen> [BE] [Test] Leto's blabla 19:37:05 <Fremen> 1935 year 19:37:59 <bolli> apparently it doesn't work... 19:38:12 <Fremen> crap 19:38:41 <Fremen> ports are forwarded, so must be something else 19:38:54 <bolli> Join time? 19:39:21 <Fremen> 600 19:39:33 <Fremen> too low? standard is 500 19:39:37 <bolli> hmm 19:39:53 <bolli> put it to something like 4k to test it? :p 19:40:19 <Fremen> aight :p 19:40:49 <bolli> seems to be a fairly slow connection... 19:41:19 <bolli> although, that could be because I'm used to cloud server upload speeds... 19:42:08 <Fremen> shouldn't be to slow but it's a huge map 19:42:14 <Fremen> too* 19:42:27 <bolli> hmm 19:42:47 <bolli> I have mine set to 32000, so thats probably why I don't have any issues with it any more... 19:42:58 <Fremen> can connect to it from other pc but yeah local I guess 19:43:29 <Fremen> always had probas with firewalls and port forwarding while I'm doing nothin wrong :s 19:43:43 <bolli> ah :P 19:44:03 <bolli> Anyway, Seems to have worked 19:44:07 <Fremen> so it's my router being an idiot 19:44:11 <Fremen> aha ! 19:44:14 <Fremen> nice 19:44:20 <Chris_Booth> nasty 19:45:00 <bolli> It isn't an ISP provided router is it? :P 19:45:07 <Fremen> nope 19:45:38 <Fremen> I'm in IT sector so I know a bit what I'm doing :p 19:45:44 <Fremen> still I'm no specialist 19:45:45 <bolli> :P 19:46:51 <bolli> One of our clients has been having a lot of trouble lately with their router.... Turns out they got somebody in to do some different IT work and accidentally reset it to factory settings... 19:47:16 <Fremen> ... 19:47:28 <bolli> That was about 2 days of faffing with it to get it back to working order again. 19:47:54 <bolli> hmm... I like the Big buttons on that server :P 19:48:36 <Fremen> hehe yeh I discovered the OpenGFX+ stuff 19:48:42 <Fremen> only didn't use the landscape 19:48:46 <Fremen> I liek to see the grid :p 19:48:56 <bolli> :P 19:49:02 <bolli> I might have to try those out.... 19:49:06 <Fremen> the normal size is small on a HD monitor 19:49:29 <bolli> :P 19:50:13 <bolli> My laptop doesn't like Openttd on small sizes, I think if i ran it on a HD monitor, it would explode.. 19:51:10 <Fremen> :p 19:51:28 <Fremen> I could barely read income per train on the list etc 19:51:48 <Fremen> in those days we all had 800-600 monitors at best 19:51:52 <Fremen> 800x600 20:01:18 <SquireJames> Ah the good old days ;) 20:03:55 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4500 20:03:55 *** Guest4500 [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:04:31 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4501 20:04:31 *** Guest4501 [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:05:17 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4502 20:05:17 *** Guest4502 [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:05:49 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4503 20:05:49 *** Guest4503 [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:06:15 <Fremen> there are still people playing at 800x600 ... Diablo 2 insane prople 20:06:19 <Fremen> people* 20:08:03 <bolli> you should see my second monitor at home.... 1998s finest... :P 20:10:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 20:11:57 *** keoz [~keikoz@142.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 20:16:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-80.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:16:34 *** JameiLei [~jcyrhodgs@cpc3-harb8-2-0-cust74.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:17:26 *** JameiLei [~jcyrhodgs@cpc3-harb8-2-0-cust74.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:19:59 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:21:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 20:31:47 *** schindler [~pambun@41.223.59.73] has joined #openttd 20:32:25 <bolli> Toodaloo 20:32:26 *** bolli [~Sam@193.221.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 20:32:38 *** schindler [~pambun@41.223.59.73] has quit [] 20:34:40 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 20:39:20 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD432C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD432C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:47 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:48:24 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 20:52:20 *** keoz [~keikoz@142.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:36 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-170-200-26.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120821170930]] 20:58:56 *** Chrill [Chrill@cpc3-harb8-2-0-cust74.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:58 <frosch123> night 21:09:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008998.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:16 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:12 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-82.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:21:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:21:57 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:23:26 *** siridle [siridle@1407ds1-hb.1.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 21:24:46 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-122-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:28 <Zuu> Hmm, when I search through the entire solution for "SHORTCARGO", I only find the cases when it is used, but not any place when that string is defined. 21:32:01 * Zuu is trying to find the place in code which map the string params to their type. 21:32:57 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Qupada] 21:34:19 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 21:37:24 <michi_cc> Zuu: That's probably because in strgen it is called CARGO_SHORT. Look at FormatString() in strings.cpp. 21:38:27 <Zuu> I've ended up there now. I see there is a constant CC_CARGO_SHORT that is possible externally linked with {CARGOSHORT} 21:39:52 <michi_cc> The mapping is in table\strgen_tables.h 21:40:03 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:40:33 *** chester_ [~chester@89-178-175-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:41:40 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4507 21:41:41 *** Guest4507 [~Andy@host86-147-249-107.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:12 <Zuu> It seems that its not until the news message window is constructed that the string parameters are evaluated in FormatString when they are passed from a GS. 21:42:47 <Zuu> But I'm not exactly sure yet 21:43:34 <Terkhen> good night 21:44:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:04 <Zuu> Problem solved. There is no such identifier as {CARGO}. 22:00:45 <Fremen> hmmm crap, with the OpenGFX+ new GUI there are no groups to put vehicles in ... 22:01:29 <glx> check the advanced options 22:02:48 <Fremen> can't find it 22:02:55 <Fremen> hmm 22:04:54 <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Interface#Use_the_advanced_vehicle_list 22:05:57 <Fremen> aha thanks 22:06:02 <Fremen> never had to set that one 22:08:04 <Fremen> wonder why it has reset by itself 22:34:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:42:36 <Fremen> if anyone wants to join, got 2 people on my 512x512 100 year server starting 1935, I want to see how it performs te next 24 hrs ! 22:42:59 <Fremen> [BE] [Test] Leto's blabla 22:43:13 <Fremen> blabla as i'm too lazy to type tthe rest 22:43:50 <Kjetil> Is is a desert game with shai-hulud ? 22:44:05 <Fremen> hehe sadly no ;) 22:57:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@37-144-244-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:25 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:29:01 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-008.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:35:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]