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00:17:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:17:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B537.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:58 <DDR> Especially a name that's untaken on the internet. 00:29:26 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:04:37 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-063-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:33:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DDFD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:37:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD62.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:57 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd 01:49:58 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:54:47 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:19:03 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:35 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:50:42 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 02:55:44 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 02:59:35 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [] 03:02:25 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:20 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd 03:43:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d547:ac9e:d4:9843] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:13:15 *** Wuzzy2 [~Wuzzy@p549F9BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:13:45 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:45 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p549FA440.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:18:06 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 05:15:08 *** Wuzzy2 [~Wuzzy@p549F9BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Wuzzy2] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD53D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66F75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:19:19 <Nat_aS> >Find Brazil scenerio in Bananas 06:19:22 <Nat_aS> oh this looks cool 06:19:26 <Nat_aS> >It's temprate 06:19:27 <Nat_aS> :. 06:19:29 <Nat_aS> :/ 06:19:32 <Nat_aS> also absurd sized 06:19:37 <Nat_aS> WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS? 06:19:53 <Nat_aS> also, the amazon river is made of jaggies apparently 06:21:06 <Nat_aS> the map is huge, but has no detail, and the amazon river makes right angle turns 06:21:06 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:12 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 06:22:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:26 <Nat_aS> oh, here's another inapropriately climated map, It's suposed to be the north sea, but it's also temprate 06:23:35 <Nat_aS> >Temprate caribian 06:47:07 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 07:00:46 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:08 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 07:10:31 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: I drink to make other people interesting.] 07:23:34 <Flygon> Nat_aS: Can't be any worse than the Sub-Arctic world map... that had no details, apart from USA apperantly being a city 07:24:00 <Flygon> What really annoys me, though, is that you can't have all climates in one ma 07:24:02 <Flygon> map* 07:24:15 <Flygon> This really hurts America, Australia, and Europe scenarios :( 07:24:35 <Flygon> Australia has snow and beaches within 200km of eachother, dangit! 07:24:53 <Nat_aS> yeah 07:25:06 <Nat_aS> although there are newgrifs that do funky things with that I think 07:25:31 <Nat_aS> at least there are newgrfs that fit snow into temprate maps 07:25:50 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:25:53 <Nat_aS> I just hate that there are few tropic maps, and when I see a map for somewhere like brazil 07:25:56 <Nat_aS> I get my hopes up 07:26:03 <Nat_aS> only to find it's LOL TEMPRATE 07:26:09 <Nat_aS> also fucking huge maps 07:26:16 <Nat_aS> Just because you can, dosn't mean you should 07:33:32 <Flygon> Hmmm 07:33:35 <Flygon> Y'know, Nat 07:33:41 <Flygon> You can export the heightmap 07:33:43 <Flygon> Reimport 07:33:53 <Flygon> And manually adjust the map from there 07:34:03 <Flygon> Placing towns and industries would suck, though 07:34:13 <Flygon> Shame there's no method of reporting, at the very least, towns 07:34:35 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:50 <Flygon> This has me particulary annoyed, for example, with regard to a scenario I've provided a heightmap for 07:34:59 <Flygon> And have since, improved my heightmap techniques 07:36:36 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 07:37:22 <NGC3982> Morning, deamons and democrats. 07:38:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:57 <Nat_aS> i suck at heightmapping 07:42:31 <Nat_aS> and yeah, I like industries placed with care, but I'm too lazy to do it myself 07:42:59 <Nat_aS> I'm just fustrated that all the energy people have in making maps, is wasted on making giant ugly temprate maps with random industries 08:01:00 <Flygon> Nat_aS: All I did was use the DEM method 08:01:08 <Flygon> But the trick is getting the output to look good 08:01:11 <Flygon> As it turns out 08:01:18 <Flygon> Blur is your friend 08:05:01 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@101.117.17.95] has joined #openttd 08:09:16 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 08:10:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:14:23 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 08:16:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [] 08:21:13 <NGC3982> I have never played a heightmap. 08:21:19 <NGC3982> I actually don't even know the difference. 08:21:27 <Flygon> Heightmaps lack anything but the land 08:21:56 <NGC3982> Oh, 'Heightmap' only defines how the map was made? 08:23:14 <Flygon> Literally the height of the map 08:23:17 <Flygon> As in, altitude 08:38:25 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 08:40:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:41:58 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-211.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:19:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A063.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 09:19:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A063.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:05:55 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@101.117.17.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:20 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-108-17-113-33.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:24:17 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:08 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-108-17-113-33.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:35:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:36:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:36:19 <andythenorth> do we want diagonal canals? 10:36:23 <andythenorth> I'll draw them if needed 10:36:25 <andythenorth> also rivers 10:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes and yes. problem is, you can't build rails on the other half :/ 10:37:15 <andythenorth> shrug 10:37:26 <andythenorth> same applies to railtypes 10:37:30 <andythenorth> new map :P 10:37:33 <andythenorth> map layers :P 10:37:53 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Yes. 10:38:00 <andythenorth> juanjo's 'multiple docks' patch looks interesting 10:38:02 <andythenorth> hmm 10:38:11 <NGC3982> Diagonal stuff taste good. 10:38:27 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:28 <andythenorth> I should have prefixed my question with 'do people who have commit rights think diagonal canals rivers are worth drawing' :P 10:38:31 <andythenorth> :) 10:38:39 <Flygon> Everything needs diagonals 10:38:43 <Flygon> inb4 road railtype 10:38:49 <NGC3982> Just take Flatland 10:39:14 <NGC3982> Flatland needs diagonals. 10:39:30 * NGC3982 is so bored out he could eat an employee. 10:49:30 <TrueBrain> is she hot? 10:55:12 <Flygon> Or Spicy 10:55:20 <Flygon> ... 10:55:27 <Flygon> I completely missed TrueBrain's joke just then 10:55:29 <Flygon> Derp 11:05:19 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:08:46 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 11:09:05 <TGYoshi> How does one play well in multiplayer? ._. 11:09:15 <TGYoshi> the game's insanely slow and I barely earn money compared to others 11:10:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 11:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on the settings 11:14:04 <TGYoshi> What kind of? 11:14:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> all of them... 11:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly newgrfs 11:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> or goals/gamescripts 11:15:15 <TGYoshi> Just the basic non-modded game 11:16:09 <TGYoshi> I know you should lay a long track from coal to the energy thing, but somehow it's so insanely slow since I can't fast-forward 11:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually start with passengers nowadays 11:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> find two large cities that are close, build tram network to shove the passengers to the station, and add some trains between the stations... watch money pour in both ways 11:17:55 <TGYoshi> trains or roads? 11:18:23 <TGYoshi> Wait, trams == trains? :P 11:18:40 <TGYoshi> actually a neat idea since you get cash both ways 11:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few sublte differences between trams and trains :) 11:20:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:20:30 <TGYoshi> I don't see a way to build tramss, however, tho 11:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, trams are only added by newgrfs, the default vehicles don't have any 11:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can use busses instead :) 11:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or if the server rules allow it, you can also just put several bus stops connected to the station via ctrl+click, but then you have trouble keeping the town rating up 11:23:22 <TGYoshi> Trams allow tracks to be placed on roads? 11:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, tram rails are built on top of roads, and they don't crash with road vehicles 11:24:20 <TGYoshi> aha 11:26:03 <Flygon> They can't overtake, though 11:26:05 <Flygon> Obviosly 11:27:00 <TGYoshi> passengers seem to work decently 11:27:20 <TGYoshi> Do you just afk a bit at the beginning or so? XD 11:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what you mean... i watch the trains move, obviously... 11:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what else is the point of the game? :p 11:28:24 <TGYoshi> well, if I go single player I just fast forward a bit till I can build on 11:28:51 <V453000> just make stuff cheaper :) more action 11:29:22 <TGYoshi> "Just make stuff cheaper" :D 11:29:42 <V453000> what is wrong with that? :) 11:30:41 <TGYoshi> Too bad it doesn't work like that in multiplayer :( 11:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> just max out your loan and build the most profitable routes you can find... 11:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i never use FF 11:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the game is generally rather too fast 11:31:49 <Flygon> Eddi: Darn right 11:31:50 <V453000> it does work like that in multiplayer, just load basecosts mod last and done 11:32:24 <Flygon> Playing through from 1842 to 2016 on a Europe scenario, and still lacking enough time to cover Europe with HSR before I run out of new steel rain trains 11:32:36 <TGYoshi> [12:31.17] <Eddi|zuHause> i never use FF 11:32:37 <TGYoshi> dafuq. 11:32:41 <Flygon> I can't wait for an introduction of the Chinese 400km/h trains :p 11:32:51 <Flygon> I did use FF in that game, though... finance @_@ 11:32:58 <V453000> you dont need FF if you have cheap trains 11:32:58 <TGYoshi> [12:31.05] <Eddi|zuHause> just max out your loan 11:33:01 <TGYoshi> what do you mean? 11:33:15 <V453000> borrow all 500k? 11:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you do know about the finance window, right?? 11:33:51 <TGYoshi> you can borrow money? rofl 11:34:02 <V453000> it depends on the newGRF ... UKRS for example has a bit expensive trains from the start, for example NUTS has extremely cheap trains so you can play as much as possible 11:34:12 <V453000> lol 11:34:23 <TGYoshi> amazes me how insanely less I know about the game :3 11:34:26 <Flygon> I had expensive trains... I kept going broke because I was upgrading placeholder rails to HSR and getting TGV units :p 11:35:50 <TGYoshi> aha 11:35:55 <TGYoshi> so you can start with 600k default 11:35:56 <TGYoshi> XD 11:36:22 <Flygon> Doesn't the starting money depend on the currency? 11:36:31 <Flygon> eg. 1 mil Euro, mil USD? 11:37:08 <TGYoshi> 600k eur 11:37:41 <Flygon> Er, wait, I'm thinking about how much you can get loaned... 11:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> internally everything is calculated in £ 11:37:51 <Flygon> I thought the default starting Euro was 200k? 11:38:01 <TGYoshi> Yea, default 200k eur 11:38:10 <Flygon> At least, that's how my Europe scenario wen- gotcha 11:38:20 <Markk> You can change how much money you can loan. 11:41:33 <planetmaker> within a small range only, though. like 100k ... 300k GBP or so 11:42:32 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-211.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> up to 500k£ 11:57:55 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:14:24 *** Mikk36_ [~mikk36@82.131.14.0.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 12:14:45 *** Mikk36 [~mikk36@82.131.14.0.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 12:23:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:40:14 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:53:56 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:54:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:11:40 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bcf2:1f84:caf6:9cad] has joined #openttd 13:11:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:16:20 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:31:33 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.237] has joined #openttd 13:31:54 <DanMacK> Hey all 13:35:14 <Flygon> Heya 13:35:16 <Flygon> I like the name 13:46:53 <DanMacK> Thanks 13:50:32 <TGYoshi> What newgrf is for trams? 13:51:13 <TGYoshi> nevermind, found it in another menu 13:51:42 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:51:50 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:55:56 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:39 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:19:48 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:36 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:32:07 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:32:09 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:35:08 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:49 <Belugas> hello 14:40:55 <ntoskrnl> hello 14:45:54 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd 14:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> o hell... 14:48:38 <MNIM> Helol? 14:54:25 <NGC3982> Good afternoon. 14:55:01 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: -She +they, and yes, since there are only me and women around here, i would say so. 14:56:53 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:07:15 <Terkhen> hello 15:10:47 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-66-108-51-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:11:27 <supermop> hi 15:12:49 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-028-140.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:17:18 <FLHerne> supermop: Hoyo :-) 15:17:43 <supermop> hows it going? 15:18:14 <FLHerne> Alright 15:18:53 <supermop> so im not working today 15:19:11 <FLHerne> That sounds fun :-) 15:19:18 <supermop> but im off this afternoon to see a new exhibit of japanese post war art from 1950-70 15:19:24 <supermop> at moma 15:19:56 <supermop> im actually a member of the museum so i could have seen it earlier, but I was lazy so now I must fight the crowds 15:20:10 <supermop> hopefully a monday won'tt be too bad 15:20:55 <supermop> so can't partake in a game today 15:39:06 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:37 *** Goosecap [~Goosecap@cpc1-sgyl28-2-0-cust568.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:21 <Goosecap> hi 15:42:07 <Goosecap> is it illegal to use signd to stop other ppl using your mine, once you have started using it on a multiplayer game? 15:45:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:45:32 <andythenorth> mustache looks plausible for nml templating 15:45:33 <andythenorth> http://mustache.github.com/mustache.5.html 15:45:39 <andythenorth> chameleon is not for everyone :P 15:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Goosecap: that depends on your server's house rules, but usually this behaviour is frowned upon. 15:46:03 <Ammler> Goosecap: it's at least not fun :-) 15:46:12 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fec26.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:42 <Goosecap> ok but what if someone is shadowing your company and trying to halm it? 15:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they charge tax on winnings in california? 15:48:33 <andythenorth> apparently :P 15:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing interesting in the rest of the text :) 15:49:24 <Goosecap> im playing on the redarmy server and i cant find any rules for it 15:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Goosecap: ask an administrator of the server 15:50:20 <Goosecap> ive never seen one 15:50:42 <Goosecap> how do i go about finding one? 15:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> then leave the server and pick one with an active administrator/moderator team :) 15:54:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:55:12 <peter1138> Heh, OpenTTD on RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi. It's a bit slow... 15:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> play smaller maps!! :p 15:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't really be as slow as TT on my old 386 :) 15:56:45 <peter1138> It took about 3 minutes to get to the main menu :p 15:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... :) 15:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> get a smaller data/newgrf/... directory :) 15:57:40 <peter1138> Must be something not quite right, this is a 700MHz machine, and loads of RAM. 15:57:52 <peter1138> Nothing in there except opengfx/sfx/msx 16:16:34 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 16:22:20 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:28:42 <Nat_aS> scrolling up, I'd rather see diagonal roads than rivers 16:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: whole different class of problems 16:31:00 <Nat_aS> hmm? 16:31:22 <frosch123> how about removing diagonal rail? :p 16:31:49 <Nat_aS> Ppppht 16:32:01 <Nat_aS> man, I tried to give locomotion another try 16:32:16 <Nat_aS> because it has realistic curves and shit 16:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: diagonal rivers is mostly graphical, as ships already travel diagonally across these tiles 16:32:23 <Nat_aS> and elivated track 16:32:35 <Nat_aS> but god, the pathfinding is retarded 16:32:46 <Nat_aS> and there are no advanced signals in most maps 16:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: whereas diagonal roads are creating a whole new class of road crossings 16:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> which need new movement patterns and stuff 16:33:12 <Nat_aS> like you need to keep every train isolated on it's own track to avoid conflicts 16:33:29 <Nat_aS> I just noticed RVs can pass each other, was this allways the case? 16:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: those are "quantum effects" to resolve deadlocks 16:33:58 <Nat_aS> ohh? 16:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> in original TT occasionally you got bunches of trucks which could not travel forward or backward, usually in front of truck stations. thus openttd introduced "road vehicle queueing" to avoid these situations and "quantum effects" to resolve these situations in case they still happen 16:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> this has been included for ages 16:37:25 <Nat_aS> not sure how faster veichiles passing behind slower ones resolves deadlocks 16:37:33 <Nat_aS> what if there is another one going the other way? 16:37:52 <Nat_aS> will it magicaly pass through it? or does this only happen when the road is clear? 16:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the quantum effects should only happen if the vehicle is standing still for some times 16:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> simple overtaking should not cause this effect 16:39:09 <Nat_aS> well overtaking is what I was asking about 16:39:13 <Nat_aS> did this allways happen? 16:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if a vehicle hits an opposite vehicle, it stops and joins back behind the one it was overtaking 16:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> overtaking is not "pass through", it's "pass by" :) 16:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that was always there 16:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> even in TT 16:39:38 <Nat_aS> i said pass by 16:39:40 <Nat_aS> I think 16:39:43 <Nat_aS> :? 16:39:57 <ntoskrnl> i've seen vehicles just pass through another one going the other way 16:39:59 <Nat_aS> i said passing behind 16:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you said neither 16:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause> just "pass" 16:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was ambiguous 16:40:19 <Nat_aS> ntoskrnl: that's because the sprites are too large 16:40:36 <Nat_aS> they aren't really passing through each other, it's just the sprites 16:40:37 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:50 <Nat_aS> in game terms, they are on opisate sides of the road 16:41:38 <ntoskrnl> no, i mean, they pass through each other during an overtake 16:42:20 <frosch123> wow... i did not know what the weird term "quantum effect" in ottd referred to 16:42:26 <Nat_aS> but don't you see one at least try to go on the other side of the road? 16:42:46 <Nat_aS> it's probably because the sprite takes up the whole road, instead of just half 16:42:58 <Nat_aS> the game dosn't handle large trucks diffrently 16:43:06 <frosch123> hmm, or did we even remove it because noone understood what it meant? 16:43:19 <ntoskrnl> Nat_aS: yes, sometimes they go back to the other side as you said, and sometimes they just "magically" pass through each other 16:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there were definitely some discussions, but i have no idea what the text reads now 16:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling :) 16:44:13 <frosch123> yeah, it's still in the settings name 16:44:28 <frosch123> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ROAD_VEHICLE_QUEUEING :Road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects): {STRING2} 16:45:00 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:37 <frosch123> ok, but that setting does not control anything wrt. the passing-through 16:48:34 <frosch123> and the pass-through already was in ottd 0.1 16:48:46 <frosch123> so, that setting had nothing to do with it, ever 16:49:20 <frosch123> so, the setting name still makes no sense :p 16:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be true :) 16:52:56 <frosch123> maybe it only refers to that the quantum effects are very likely to occur when enabling the queueing 16:57:49 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@82-170-153-183.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:27 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:10:36 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:21 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:21:02 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:46 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:26:27 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:26 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:31:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 17:44:14 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:17 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:56:21 *** kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DDFD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DDFD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:01:49 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:06 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:13:08 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:24:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:06 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:27:52 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:25 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:38:31 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:13 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:46:06 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24756 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-11-19 18:46:23 UTC) 18:46:33 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:34 <DorpsGek> korean - 8 changes by telk5093 18:46:35 <DorpsGek> romanian - 20 changes by kkmic 18:46:36 <DorpsGek> swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A 18:56:59 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 19:04:18 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:23:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-225-220.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:32:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24757 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2012-11-19 19:32:45 UTC) 19:32:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix: broken Greek translation 19:33:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:37:38 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:30 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:48 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-208.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:46:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:47:39 <andythenorth> lo 19:47:56 <Rubidium> ahoi andythenorth 19:48:23 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 19:58:35 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 20:09:41 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:19:09 <frosch123> night 20:19:12 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fec26.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:21 *** kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero] 20:30:15 *** Wolf01 [~Thunderbi@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:30:22 <Wolf01> hello o/ 20:32:38 <Wolf01> I almost had an heartache, I found my desktop pc with a 800x600 resolution, weird video drivers, extremely slow... 20:33:13 <__ln__> and then you set it back to the old and familiar 640x480 20:33:21 <Wolf01> yeah 20:34:18 <Wolf01> I had to restart in safe mode to be able to install the latest version of the video drivers 20:35:51 <Wolf01> maybe it's taking it's revenge as I started to use extensively my asus slate 20:37:25 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has 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[Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:22 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:33:06 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:06 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:35:45 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 21:38:29 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 21:51:00 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:21 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:49 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 21:57:21 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.239] has joined #openttd 21:58:55 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:59:01 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:01:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 22:03:09 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:03:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [] 22:04:22 <Terkhen> good night 22:04:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 22:06:40 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:08:09 *** krinn [~krinn@74.227.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 22:09:04 <krinn> hi guys, vehicle state are bits? i mean a vehicle at station might have VS_RUNNING + VS_AT_STATION or only one or the other ? 22:10:49 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:55 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 22:11:01 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:12:09 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi] 22:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no VS_RUNNING, but yes, the VS_ bits are a bitmask 22:17:41 <krinn> VS_RUNNING The vehicle is currently running. 22:17:47 <krinn> :) 22:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> where? 22:17:55 <krinn> http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAIVehicle.html#3db1458adbeaa3cf6a8302ccd7e7de29 22:18:57 <krinn> i wonder what AIVehicle.GetState will return for a vehicle at station so, both VS_RUNNING+VS_AT_STATION ? 22:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find these in the code at all 22:20:19 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no, those seem to be a simple enum 22:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so it can't be two values at the same time 22:21:45 <krinn> i have test, yes, one or the other 22:21:46 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-181-198.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 22:22:01 <Afdal> Hey, any developers around? 22:22:19 <krinn> looks like VS_AT_STATION imply anyway VS_RUNNING else it whould be VS_STOPPED || VS_CRASHED 22:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_LOADING)) return ScriptVehicle::VS_AT_STATION; 22:23:16 <krinn> afdal, ask your question, except if your question was really to know if dev are near, which i'm sure is not your question 22:24:08 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:24:09 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i suppose a crashed/stopped vehicle won't be OT_LOADING even if it is at station no? 22:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> correct 22:24:27 <krinn> ok thank your Eddi|zuHause 22:24:45 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "if the employee dies during a buisiness trip, the business trip is considered to have ended" 22:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> [paraphrased, but this is an actual sentence in the german law] 22:26:41 <krinn> lol, to make sure the other trip fees the employee now is taking won't be endorse by the company ? 22:26:59 <krinn> in case God decide to make people pay for the trip :) 22:27:25 <Afdal> I ask this question a lot and I need a developer to answer it 22:27:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it is primarily because of money, it's just a bureaucracy issue 22:29:04 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has left #openttd [] 22:29:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 22:29:24 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 22:29:41 <krinn> Afdal, could "maybe" answer it ? 22:30:05 <Afdal> I think I'll just wait 22:30:13 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, it's in what ? work law ? 22:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: a developer will _never ever_ answer to the question "is a developer here" 22:30:35 <Afdal> Whenever other people try to answer it it's usually just some condescending argument like "why are you playing like that" :( 22:30:52 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:31:07 <Afdal> well gee 22:31:14 <Afdal> Hey planetmaker, you on? 22:31:19 <krinn> lol so devs are not condescendant ? it comes with the status, be dev, get the condescendant shield up 22:32:27 <krinn> Afdal, for your information, Eddi|zuHause is a stealth one 22:32:34 <krinn> but don't tell him i've told you ! 22:32:41 <Afdal> ono {: 22:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i saw that! 22:32:59 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:03 <krinn> erf, someone stole my nick ! 22:33:56 <Afdal> well 22:34:00 <Afdal> all right.. 22:34:13 <krinn> just ask your question dude 22:34:32 <krinn> you won't die getting condescendant answer, and you even may get a nice one 22:34:37 <Afdal> Can anyone explain this behavior to me? http://gyazo.com/1fcf363846b6f78933cd217f99513029 22:35:02 <Afdal> I'd like to understand how the pathfinding works such that this happens 22:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: the pathfinder is deterministic, so when both the left and the right path return equal values, it will always pick the same path 22:35:43 <krinn> so it's an easy question, basic pathfinding 22:35:45 <Afdal> Aren't those paths the same? 22:35:57 <Afdal> Why would it choose a different path just by moving the waypoint 22:36:10 <krinn> no the waypoint could add an extra cost/hit/determining point to the pathfinder 22:36:40 <Afdal> I just want to know exactly why though 22:36:53 <Afdal> how 22:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: there's a pathfinder debug mode 22:37:03 <Afdal> Oh? 22:37:09 <krinn> because pathfinder works like that, costs to find the path 22:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: go to the console and say "debug_level pf=3" or so 22:37:23 <Afdal> okay 22:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it may not be too meaningful, though 22:37:38 <Afdal> what does the pf number do? 22:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> in general, debug level 0 means "only the most important errors", and debug level 9 means "every fucking detail you have" 22:38:20 <Afdal> hah 22:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the steps in between are not always different, but sometimes 22:38:31 <planetmaker> Afdal, different paths NEVER can be the same. The PF is deterministic 22:38:43 <planetmaker> even when they're mirrored, they're different 22:39:00 <Afdal> So how are they err differently different in those two examples? 22:39:32 <planetmaker> order of tiles. And I don't know the orders of the trains. So I cannot even remotely tell 22:39:55 <Afdal> there are no trains ahead of the track on those to influence the decision 22:40:07 <Afdal> oh order 22:40:15 <Afdal> Just the waypoint is in the orders 22:40:39 <krinn> the waypoint position influence decision too 22:40:40 <planetmaker> obviously. So PF'ing ends at the order 22:40:47 <planetmaker> and you wonder that paths are different? 22:41:15 <planetmaker> like krinn says. 22:41:17 <Afdal> Well, I'd like to understand it enough that I can predict what path a train will take in such a situation 22:41:21 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 22:41:31 <Afdal> But isn't the waypoint on the same position for each path? 22:41:42 <krinn> if you bad at prediciting, try, once it take it, it will always take the same 22:41:44 <planetmaker> left != right 22:41:56 <planetmaker> and behind tunnel != before tunnel 22:42:01 <Afdal> I mean 22:42:05 <planetmaker> so each of the 4 paths differs 22:42:10 <Afdal> aren't they equal in each example? 22:42:13 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:29 <Afdal> I just don't understand how moving it past the tunnel completely changes the path preference 22:42:30 <planetmaker> and why which is chosen can reliably only be told when you actually do the calculations and look at the code to see what happens how to break ties 22:42:36 <Afdal> That's what I want to know 22:43:04 <planetmaker> the code is the documentation 22:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: pathfinding works (roughly) after the "A* algorithm", i.e. you make a list of "next" tiles at each branch, and then pick the tile with the lowest distance, pick the next tile, add their distances, and insert it back into the list. whether the left path or the right path gets to the destination first is deterministic for each track layout, but (even marginally) different track layouts may change the order of destination tiles which 22:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> are reached 22:43:40 <krinn> Afdal, look at a* doc, you will get the picture easy 22:43:48 <planetmaker> I'm afraid that there's no more satisfying answer than these given 22:43:50 <Afdal> a* doc? 22:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: my guess is that the switches before the tunnel entrance make the difference 22:43:58 <planetmaker> No-one, I fear, knows more by heart than this 22:44:05 <Afdal> -_- 22:44:07 <planetmaker> and all beyond is looking at the actual implementation 22:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: a left switch is handled differently than a right switch, wrt. the order of the exits 22:44:45 <Afdal> Hmm, I'm getting "Unknown debug level pf=3." when I try that zuHause 22:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and that jumbles up your perceived calculation order 22:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: then leave out the = 22:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. make a space 22:45:20 <krinn> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Weighted_A_star_with_eps_5.gif here's an animated gif of a* working 22:46:10 <Afdal> `that doesn't seem to work either zuHause 22:46:10 *** Kylie [kvirc@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:19 <planetmaker> Afdal, and wrt "you need a developer": you need a person familiar with that particular part of the code. I guess many AI authors, e.g. like krinn know its behavioru and workings similarily well as anyone who is listed as developer 22:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "debug_level pf 3" 22:46:39 <planetmaker> it's condescending to assume otherwise ;-) 22:46:52 <Afdal> I:} 22:46:54 <krinn> ^^ 22:47:20 <Afdal> http://gyazo.com/14b7902d9a44144c5cf2a97e84a894b0 22:48:39 <michi_cc> It's yapf and not pf, but I doubt it will help you much. 22:48:41 <Afdal> Do I need a special build or something to get debug mode to work? 22:48:43 <planetmaker> pf is not a debugging thing. It's yapf 22:48:47 <Afdal> ohhh 22:48:59 <Afdal> thanks 22:49:06 <Afdal> now where do I see the output for this? 22:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, right 22:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: try "developer 2" 22:49:31 <Wolf01> 'night 22:49:35 *** Wolf01 [~Thunderbi@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Wolf01] 22:49:40 <krinn> Afdal, on developper console (lol yes condescending answer!) 22:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that should get you the debug output to the ingame console as well as to the outside console 22:49:54 <Afdal> aha 22:50:14 <Afdal> hmm 22:50:46 <Afdal> Now how do I read this YAPF gibberish... 22:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a thread at the forum trying to decipher that recently 22:51:35 <planetmaker> "recently" :-) 22:51:36 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all] 22:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "in the past few weeks" 22:52:24 <krinn> well, even understanding them will only answer why it pickup that path, not the answer he expect "how can i let it pickup the other path on next try" 22:52:45 <krinn> it was you real question no ? having it taking a path, than the other one next time? 22:53:01 <Afdal> Nah I just want to understand it really 22:53:03 <Afdal> I'm curious 22:53:12 <planetmaker> well. Picking the other path on next try... only feasible on cost of more code complexity. Which certainly is not welcome at that place 22:53:19 <Afdal> I don't think I can use this as an actual networking trick 22:53:20 <krinn> so seriously any basic tuto for a* will answer you better 22:53:31 <Afdal> What is A* 22:53:43 <planetmaker> a pf algorithm 22:53:45 <krinn> a star, basic algo for pathfinding in computer 22:53:47 <Afdal> ah 22:53:49 <planetmaker> read up on wiki for details 22:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: a modified dijkstra with a bias for "air distance" 22:54:26 <krinn> just wikipedia should answer your curiousity imo 22:54:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@82-170-153-183.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:00 <Eddi|zuHause> a bachelor level computer science course should answer it as well :) 22:55:13 <krinn> lol no with easy sample 22:55:19 * planetmaker didn'th ave that and used wiki :-P 22:55:51 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:56:57 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:58:23 * planetmaker now will not only read up on but implement and make use of a tool called 'bed'. ;-) 22:58:26 <planetmaker> night everyone :-) 22:58:36 <krinn> night planetmaker 22:58:45 <Flygon> Hyvaa yota 22:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks finnish, but misses lots of 'À's 22:59:47 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:00:37 <Afdal> where can I find that yapf thread you were talking about 23:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i know a lot, but i'm not a search engine... 23:01:04 <Afdal> Is this it? http://gandalf.zernebok.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=63025 23:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks right, but maybe you should use the official tt-forums.net url :) 23:03:23 <Flygon> Eddi: Lack of appropriate keyboard 23:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> dead keys or compose key :) 23:04:13 <Afdal> doesn't alt-132 work for you 23:04:31 <Afdal> if you're on Windows 23:07:04 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:07:14 <Flygon> Afdal: Not in X-Chat, it seems 23:07:18 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:07:20 <Afdal> :o 23:07:42 <krinn> there's xchat for windows no? 23:08:12 <Flygon> Hyaáá test 23:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> might need a alt+0132 23:08:16 <Flygon> ... 23:08:28 <Flygon> I used the wrong a, probably 23:08:41 <__ln__> Flygon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_US-International.svg 23:08:43 <Flygon> krinn: Yes 23:08:43 <krinn> À ? 23:08:57 <__ln__> Flygon: should be available on windows 23:08:58 <Flygon> krinn: That was probably what I was looking to copypasta 23:09:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 23:09:53 <Flygon> Okay, turns out the alt trick works in Notepad @_@ 23:10:46 <Flygon> I lack an 'Alt Gr' button 23:10:52 <Flygon> It's not a full sized keyboard 23:11:19 <Flygon> One of those laptop keyboards that somehow fits a numpad 23:13:14 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.43.135.162] has joined #openttd 23:13:14 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> historically, altgr should be simulated by ctrl+alt 23:14:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:14:49 <krinn> you can exect an echo in xchat no ? 23:14:55 <krinn> execute 23:15:18 <krinn> lol i'll try 23:15:58 <krinn> ah doesn't work, is not echoing it 23:21:24 <Flygon> Ehh 23:21:30 <Flygon> Let's best not worry about it :p 23:26:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:32:35 *** Mister_Argent [~kvirc@c-98-226-56-20.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:32:38 <Mister_Argent> 'ello. 23:32:44 * Mister_Argent is playing with the scenario editor. 23:33:40 <Afdal> Well that debug output didn't help me out as much as I thought it would :( 23:33:56 <Mister_Argent> Quick question, do i just use the bomb tool to remove unneeded towns? 23:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: you could try if debug level 9 gives you more spam ;) 23:34:26 <Afdal> level 3 is the max output for yapf 23:34:47 <Afdal> Click on the town name Mister_Argent 23:34:52 <Mister_Argent> ah. 23:34:56 <Afdal> There's a delete option that will wipe it out completely 23:35:00 <Mister_Argent> Why didn't i think of that? 23:35:03 <Afdal> :3 23:35:21 * Mister_Argent finishes off knocking out a few islands for hand remodelling 23:35:44 <krinn> Afdal : look http://www.policyalmanac.org/games/aStarTutorial.htm 23:36:05 <Afdal> >.> 23:36:46 <krinn> it's an easy to understand doc 23:36:48 <Mister_Argent> I'm mostly letting the random generator do it's work for my first scenario but i am throwing in one or two named cities and doing some remodelling to make the islands a little sparser 23:37:01 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:34 <Mister_Argent> Say, what happens when two cities collide? 23:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: i'm still fairly convinced that the asymmetric switches are the key to the difference 23:37:54 <Afdal> asymmetric switches? 23:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: before the tunnel entrance 23:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the left track has a right switch, and the right track has a left switch 23:38:26 <Afdal> uhhh 23:38:28 <Afdal> oh 23:38:32 <Afdal> hmmm 23:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> which means the trackbits differ 23:38:36 <Afdal> that could explain it 23:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and the trackbits have different order 23:38:50 <Afdal> it would have to cycle through those slightly differently int he pathfinding wouldn't it 23:39:22 <Afdal> let me try making them both the same... 23:40:24 <Afdal> :o 23:40:39 <Afdal> hmm, nope 23:40:55 <Mister_Argent> hmm, so that's what a 10,000-population city looks like. 23:41:00 <Afdal> they're still opposite despite identical distances to waypoint 23:41:41 <Afdal> depends on the road layout Mister_Argent ;) 23:42:09 <Afdal> oh that wasn't a question 23:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: you could add additional debug statements to the follow_track function (but be careful with looking at the yapf code, people have reportedly gone insane :p) 23:42:10 <Mister_Argent> well, the cities of Bungeling Bay North and Bungeling Bay South are both lookin' pretty sprawly :p 23:42:27 <Afdal> How would I do that? 23:42:29 <Mister_Argent> BNorth has a hearty population of 10,243 and BSouth has 10,455 23:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: grep for DEBUG 23:42:55 <Afdal> Huh? 23:43:09 <Afdal> grep? 23:43:12 <krinn> afdal i think it's because a* implementation 23:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: assuming you have a working compile environment :) 23:43:28 <krinn> when both line are the same value, you need to favorite one or the other 23:43:29 <Afdal> oh you want me to compile @_@ 23:43:38 <Afdal> What's OpenTTD written in again 23:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> C++ 23:43:46 <krinn> if implementation favor upper, you get higher score upper 23:43:48 <Mister_Argent> 6502 Assembly 23:43:52 <Afdal> lol 23:44:32 <Afdal> well the pathfinding values are the same so yeah it's something about choosiness in node cycling 23:44:47 <Mister_Argent> And my first scenario is complete! 23:45:04 <Afdal> congrats 23:45:10 <Mister_Argent> The Bungeling Isles, a 2048x2048 chain of somewhat connected islands dotted with industries and cities. 23:45:43 <Mister_Argent> Now then, time to give it a spin in singleplayer to see if it's actually any fun to play. 23:45:52 <krinn> and Afdal the waypoint change the scoring 23:46:23 <Afdal> yeah the pathfinding values are different between the two examples, but equal among the track split choices 23:46:24 <krinn> one must pathfinding upto behind the tunnels, while the other pathfind upto the waypoint (and will repathfindind after the waypoint) 23:46:28 <Afdal> yeah 23:47:10 <Afdal> in the tunnel version there are 3 closed nodes while the shorter one only has one closed node 23:48:11 <Mister_Argent> The somewhat problematic terrain, thus far, has limited rail as a immediately practical option a little. Still plenty of landbridges around, though. 23:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Afdal: that's to be expected when you have 4 tunnels 23:48:43 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:48:55 <Afdal> yeah 23:49:02 <Mister_Argent> Still, the idea here was to set up a map where the usual strategies for profit may not be the most effective so that was kind of the idea 23:50:16 <Afdal> What's interesting is when I remove a bit of track at the tunnel splits so that there's no longer a choice there 23:50:29 <Afdal> it reverts back to the preference when the waypoints are right after the track split 23:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that supports my theory 23:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that the switches cause the difference 23:51:31 <Afdal> yeah 23:51:34 <Afdal> somehow.... 23:54:55 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:55:01 <drac_boy> hi 23:55:14 <krinn> hi 23:55:32 <drac_boy> how're you krinn? 23:58:52 <krinn> fine and tired, must be the late time :p 23:59:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:26 <krinn> and you ?