Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:07 <FLHerne> What railtype and trainset? 00:00:17 <dot_> I wasn't aware you could switch railtypes 00:00:27 <dot_> just using the normal black tracks 00:01:47 <FLHerne> dot_: Are you using the default trains? 00:02:04 <dot_> again, you can switch these things? Where? 00:02:15 <FLHerne> dot_: NewGrf settings 00:02:27 <FLHerne> You should really read the tutorial on the wiki ;-) 00:03:07 <dot_> I just wanted to know why I can't have any engines, but I can have all the cars, planes and boats 00:03:11 <FLHerne> Actually, that might not cover it ;-) 00:03:25 <FLHerne> dot_: If you hold down the rail icon on the main toolbar 00:03:40 <FLHerne> It should show a list of normal rail through to maglev 00:04:10 <FLHerne> By 3000, you should have maglevs available, but I think normal rail vehicles expire before than 00:04:10 <dot_> so...can I convert already lain track? 00:04:27 <FLHerne> dot_: Yes, but you should send the trains to depot first 00:04:37 <dot_> no trains exist lol 00:04:43 <FLHerne> Alternatively, set engines not to expire date-wise 00:04:56 <FLHerne> If no trains exist, just convert it :P 00:05:07 <dot_> so I'm waiting for you to tell me how 00:05:15 <FLHerne> Select maglev, then the thing with the semi-circular arrow on 00:05:18 <FLHerne> dot_: :D 00:05:29 <dot_> alrighty then 00:05:42 <dot_> so, new tracks, old stuff doesn't work, got it 00:06:08 <FLHerne> Then drag that across your existing network, and it'll charge you lots of money for the privilege :D 00:07:38 <dot_> boats are much more profitable than trains, it seems. I got 2 mill pretty quick 00:08:14 <FLHerne> dot_: Not always. Well set-up rail networks can be *very* profitable 00:08:30 <FLHerne> Boats and planes can be more profitable for a given amount of effort, though 00:08:40 <dot_> right 00:08:50 <FLHerne> No signalling or network design makes them much easier to use :-) 00:09:23 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:09:54 <FLHerne> When you get bored of the default vehicles/cargos/hideous trees, try another game with some NewGRFs. The standard ones aren't great IMO :P 00:10:10 <dot_> is it just me or do the supposed shift and ctrl functions not work in windows? 00:10:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:10:49 <FLHerne> dot_: I don't use Windows. Probably just you though, or people would be moaning on the forums 00:10:57 <FLHerne> Unless it's Win8? 00:11:02 <dot_> nah 00:11:31 <dot_> maybe it just doesn't like 64 bit? I know 64 bit windows messes up all kinds of crap that shouldn't even matter 00:11:47 <FLHerne> dot_: Again, no-one else complains... 00:11:55 <FLHerne> Does ctrl+X work? 00:12:13 <FLHerne> That one's at least simple, should pop up a floating toolbar thing 00:12:36 <dot_> yeah that works 00:12:47 <dot_> but shift and ctrl for pricing and whatnot don't 00:12:47 <FLHerne> What didn't? 00:12:51 <FLHerne> Ah. 00:13:12 * dot_ shrugs 00:13:32 <dot_> I just try to make enough money where I don't need to worry about whether I can afford it 00:13:43 <FLHerne> So, drag track, release while holding shift doesn't give you a quote? :-/ 00:14:10 <FLHerne> Do you have some non-standard thing for creating keyboard shortcuts? 00:14:33 <Zuu> Eg. do you run AutoHotKey? 00:14:54 <dot_> no 00:15:24 <FLHerne> dot_: Might sound insulting, but my guess is you're doing it wrong somehow :P 00:16:03 <dot_> you're right about that, I didn't wipe vista when I got it, I started moving stuff over to the point I couldn't switch anymore :P 00:17:10 <dot_> was supposed to come with a free 7 upgrade but it wouldn't let me. Turns out HP imaged copies aren't "legitimate" 00:18:14 <FLHerne> dot_: Linux > Windows anyway :P 00:18:27 <dot_> linux does not support my work software 00:18:52 <dot_> the whole usb dongle thing on top of wine not supporting it kinda kills the deal 00:19:55 <FLHerne> Ah well, that kind of thing can be a pain. What software? 00:20:04 <dot_> I feel like the usb security is kinda pointless. If they can bypass the serial, they can bypass a dongle check 00:20:09 <dot_> mastercam and solidworks 00:20:13 <dot_> CAD software 00:21:04 <FLHerne> Presumably LibreCAD is insufficiently featurised :-( 00:21:13 * FLHerne is tired enough to be inventing words now 00:22:14 <dot_> never heard of it. Can it generate models from pictures? Or come with a library of machine gcode settings and tools? 00:22:28 <__ln__> dot_: ideally, the dongle would perform some actual data processing, so it couldn't be circumvented just by bypassing a 'dongle check'. 00:22:28 <dot_> if so, would be nice to get off buggy mastercam 00:22:49 <dot_> __ln__, you'd think so, but I've seen people with working pirated copies 00:23:11 <dot_> somewhere in the program is still has to run checks to see what it's doing 00:23:20 <FLHerne> dot_: No idea. I'm not a professional CAD-software user, so I don't even know exactly what the latter is :P 00:23:45 <FLHerne> I only use it to design glorified tables to keep my model railway on... 00:23:53 <dot_> lol 00:23:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:24:18 <drac_boy> heh 00:25:00 <__ln__> obviously, everything can be bypassed with enough work. 00:25:16 * drac_boy only has an old 2D CAD suite because of nothing else being either 1. less than a thousand dollars to buy or 2. works on linux 00:25:30 <drac_boy> but mm I never use it too much so not too bothered by it for now 00:28:12 <FLHerne> AAARGH! Who bought decaffeinated tea? WHAT POSSIBLE USE IS DECAFFEINATED TEA!? 00:28:27 <drac_boy> at least theres always Dia for charts and flowcharts ..free ... and works on both windows and linux 00:28:33 <FLHerne> Ah well, better than nothing I suppose... 00:28:33 <drac_boy> ms visio and any others can go to hell :) 00:28:40 <FLHerne> And yes, Dia is great :-) 00:28:54 <drac_boy> FLHerne I would had probably wanted that too.. I hate sugar or caffeinate :-> 00:29:26 <FLHerne> Calligra Flow is quite good for that, too 00:29:48 <__ln__> Dia is nearly useless for anything bigger. 00:29:55 <drac_boy> mind you flherne I doubt you'll want any of my drinks I have here :p 00:29:57 <FLHerne> drac_boy: We must be opposites. Strong tea with three sugars, ideally :P 00:30:44 <FLHerne> __ln__: Yeah, but it's good for little diagrams. Bigger stuff, LibreCAD if it's an object or Flow if it's a circuit 00:31:11 <drac_boy> goat milk....ground water (a bit mild on the hardness scale last I recall) ... caffeinate-free wheat soft drink .... whole wheat beer with low sugar content .. and a few more in that list 00:31:17 <FLHerne> As in, a diagram of a circuit rather than the physical manifestation of it :P 00:32:45 <drac_boy> FLHerne the funny thing tho is I've been thinking about to later or tomorrow try draw the industry vectors into Dia just to see if the lines connecting things would be more helpful than a static spreadsheet listing 00:32:47 <FLHerne> drac_boy: You must be crazy :P 00:32:54 <drac_boy> crazy? nope..just healthy on a budget :) 00:33:38 <drac_boy> the funny thing tho is the milk and beer are produced in south quebec yet sold in many major stores, quite 'local' food indeed :) 00:34:27 <FLHerne> Water here is very hard - limestone under all the mud. Never got used to soft water :P 00:35:18 <drac_boy> FLHerne not too sure if I would like that tho... 00:36:04 <drac_boy> and mind you I almost got a bit of sick stomach after one good lunch on a short vacation...turns out the area uses softener on their city water system ... UGH .... thnakfully I was able to find some good natural spring bottles for the rest of the short stay 00:36:24 <drac_boy> so yeah .. soft water forget it ... hardy water I'm not too sure .. hard water softened forget it! 00:36:31 <drac_boy> :-> 00:37:48 <drac_boy> FLHerne what do you think of fluriode? 00:38:02 <FLHerne> Ambivalent 00:38:22 <FLHerne> I don't even care enough to know if we have it here :P 00:38:53 <drac_boy> heh...I don't like it period 00:40:49 <drac_boy> FLHerne I know its never true but I always liked these silly jokes about strong cup of coffee/tea... 00:41:07 <drac_boy> sometimes too strong enough that the spoon you left in it to stir with....is literally stuck to the whole thing as if its ice instead of liquid 00:41:14 <drac_boy> :) 00:42:08 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Well, my self-stirring mug often gets jammed with accidentally-precipitated sugar :P 00:42:50 <drac_boy> or to a moreorless true thing..drinking too much caffeine makes some people way too jumpy 00:42:56 <FLHerne> re. fluoride - just don't try and enact Dr. Stangelove in real life :P 00:43:04 <drac_boy> reminds me of a ZIT comic strip.... 00:43:56 <drac_boy> he told his friend to wait a second...he went to tap one of his girlfriend who went to literally shoot up to the ceiling .. end up hanging off the light fixture yelling at him to never do that again...he was walking away with his friend remarking "they should had never opened that starbuck next door" 00:44:14 <drac_boy> talk about her being too hypersensitive :) 00:45:28 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.16.122.31] has joined #openttd 00:47:19 <drac_boy> mmm dia charts reminds me that I still need to find one of my email address so I could sign up to forum 00:52:35 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.131.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:40 <dot_> why is it that the bridges always go up? Why can't we just have flat bridges? 00:52:53 <FLHerne> dot_: You can... 00:53:11 <dot_> there are like wooden ones but they claim to limit speed to snail pace 00:53:13 <FLHerne> Build a bridge with the first tile on a slope :P 00:53:40 <FLHerne> Or both ends on slopes facing towards each other 00:53:51 <dot_> ok, but why not flat normally? 00:54:03 <dot_> can't run a boat through a river 00:54:11 <FLHerne> Because then they wouldn't be high enough to go over whatever they went over? 00:54:15 <drac_boy> dot_ actually you can 00:54:21 <dot_> really? Hm.. 00:54:35 <drac_boy> just use the canal locks when it comes to connecting with the actual level 0 water from edge of map 00:54:55 <drac_boy> the only thing you can't do is sending boats up a rapid (its always sloped tile) obviously 00:55:55 <FLHerne> dot_: As drac_boy said, you need to build locks next to or on top of the rapids. Depending on shape of river, you might need a bit of canal to make it all fit 00:56:41 <drac_boy> its too bad that theres no actual locks due to various limitations :P 00:57:00 <dot_> I need to work on my signaling 00:57:24 <FLHerne> dot_: The wiki tutorial has a few good articles on that 00:57:37 <dot_> not good enough 00:57:49 <dot_> I've read them but they don't give examples 00:57:52 <drac_boy> dot_ got a screenshot of what you're trying to do then? 00:57:59 <drac_boy> dot_ umm they do 00:58:03 <dot_> I don't get exactly what they do 00:58:05 <drac_boy> theres lot of cropped screenshots 00:58:08 <FLHerne> Simplest way to do it: One track in each direction, path signals every few tiles, be careful with junctions 00:58:24 <FLHerne> And yes, there were lots of screenshots last time I looked 00:58:30 <drac_boy> FLHerne can I ask why you need path when theres nothing but only one single path all the times :P 00:59:05 <dot_> a few screenshots but I want better descriptions. Yes I understand that a signal needs a green up the track this and tree that blah blah, but that doesn't tell me when I use them 00:59:14 <FLHerne> Really, only the two (four counting the types that work identically) on the right you need to worry about 00:59:52 <drac_boy> you trying to drive the dispatcher crazy? heh 00:59:58 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Saves trouble when adding junctions and stuff. Personally I use block ones because they look nicer, but that adds complexity with no proper advantage 01:00:29 <drac_boy> FLHerne heh I actually use standard all the times and keep wondering why openttd refuses to compare to ttdxp when it comes to more than simple Y split junctions >_< 01:00:30 <FLHerne> The entry/exit/combo ones are largely redundant except for specific and unusual cases 01:00:37 <drac_boy> but apparently the coders seem to have no interest in doing it 01:00:59 <drac_boy> ah well 01:01:18 <FLHerne> drac_boy: OTTD-style path signals are very good for most junctions :P 01:01:55 <FLHerne> dot_: Screenshot threads *might* be helpful 01:02:02 <drac_boy> FLHerne try tell the stupid path signal that the short emus are supposed to have piority over the infrequent lengthy goods train 01:02:15 <drac_boy> basically the pbs signals are no better than standard signals -_- 01:02:21 <dot_> I've seen a lot of screenshots but only a couple actually point out which signals they were using 01:02:26 <FLHerne> Although those tend to be more complicated than necessary for aethetic reasons, of course 01:02:41 <drac_boy> dot_ do you not have a game running now or any reason why you can't post a screenshot of what you're trying to do btw? 01:03:03 <FLHerne> dot_: I'd just use monodirectional path signals for everything unless you have a specific need to use something else 01:03:08 <dot_> I could but it wouldn't matter. No case do I understand which signals to use for any kind of design 01:03:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:46 <dot_> FLHerne, I want to learn how to not lay 5 times as much track as I need lol 01:04:18 <drac_boy> dot_ care to try dispatch my trains then? heh. lot of single-track workings :) 01:04:24 <drac_boy> heh heh 01:04:29 <FLHerne> dot_: The wiki does actually have examples for most things... 01:04:39 * FLHerne quickly puts together some things 01:04:48 <dot_> FLHerne, I've seen examples but they're not as well documented for someone who knows nothing about trains 01:05:04 <dot_> I know most of the players are enthusiasts but I'm a casual player trying to learn 01:06:12 <FLHerne> dot_: Turn on 'show reserved tracks' under display options in the advanced settings, try and make sure you have trains going in only one direction on each (long) bit of track, and use only path signals :P 01:06:39 <FLHerne> When you get used to that, find cases where you can use more complicated types of signal or trackplan 01:07:15 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB26E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:44 <drac_boy> flherne I'm not blaming you but one of the most stupidest thing I sometimes actually run into with openttd is when all 3 platforms at factory are occupied by goods trains alone .. no platform for the dropoff trains to use .. even waypoints doesn't help because it "ignores" the platform signal occupation anyway 01:09:03 <drac_boy> at least most other time it seem to just about work 01:09:19 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Which is why any sane network builder uses separate stations for that :P 01:09:25 <drac_boy> FLHerne or have real signals ;) 01:09:51 <drac_boy> in ttdxp I have it signalled that if the one goods track isn't free the trains actually wait at the entry signal even if its showing green. but eh :-> 01:09:53 <dot_> reserved tracks are on. Is there a way to make it show further down the line what it's doing? 01:11:23 <dot_> also, if a town is refusing to let you build a station there, how do you make them let you? 01:11:47 <drac_boy> improve town mayor's rating...usually either 1. better services or 2. plant more trees 01:11:57 <FLHerne> dot_: Bribe them, or build them some trees, or give them a good transport service for a while 01:12:22 <FLHerne> Ideally, just don't annyo them (by removing trees or roads or buildings) in the first place :P 01:12:52 <drac_boy> FLHerne and build stations first then rails second .. especially in heavy treed areas :P 01:13:02 <FLHerne> ndeed 01:13:29 <FLHerne> http://imgur.com/Iq3JC 01:13:44 <FLHerne> Very simple network using only monodirectional path signals :P 01:14:05 <FLHerne> Actually, there's one important error in that 01:14:23 * drac_boy thinks its wrong for my trains ;) 01:14:36 <drac_boy> but then whatever heh 01:14:53 <FLHerne> The first signals after the junction when leaving the station are quite close, so a train longer than two tiles would block the junction when stopped at them 01:15:09 <FLHerne> That could potentially cause a jam, so don't do that :P 01:15:17 <peter1138> dot_, there is nothing going on further down the line, if there was, it'd be reserved 01:16:52 <dot_> down the line as in which path it would take given the signals I've set up 01:16:58 <dot_> it would help me learn WTF I'm doing wrong 01:17:20 <peter1138> nope, because until it gets there no choice has been made 01:18:55 <dot_> it can't calculate which signals are green at a given instant and highlight the path until something else gets in the way? 01:19:06 <FLHerne> Vehicles constantly redecide their path based on various factors. The reserved bit is as far as it'll get before it thinks about it again ;-) 01:19:34 <dot_> even in pause mode, a "where are they going now?" thing would be nice 01:19:35 <FLHerne> If you're trying to debug your network, you could upload a savegame or screenshot so we can see what's wrong? 01:19:44 <dot_> I'm trying to learn 01:19:49 <dot_> current game doesn't matter 01:20:19 <FLHerne> dot_: By pointing out errors in the way you set up this network, you can avoid making the same errors in others :-) 01:20:22 <drac_boy> FLHerne I pretty much asked twice...so just ignore it 01:20:26 <dot_> if you want to see a messy design I can show you 01:20:31 <dot_> but I know it's hideous 01:21:11 <dot_> http://i.imgur.com/SzEzt.png 01:21:23 <dot_> that's the overall build as I went crap 01:21:38 <drac_boy> umm that looks like nothing to me? 01:22:02 <dot_> you mean the image is blank or what? 01:22:12 <drac_boy> where's some actual view? :) 01:22:40 <dot_> can you zoom out further outside the minimap? 01:24:03 <drac_boy> forget the minimap..take a screenshot somewhere in the actual screen view 01:24:16 <dot_> well, this is the messiest part so far: http://i.imgur.com/W4NiA.jpg 01:24:45 <FLHerne> dot_: The shape of the network isn't bad, tbh 01:24:50 <drac_boy> looks like you trying to send one train all over the place? 0_o I think I'll leave you to FLHerne 01:24:54 <dot_> you saw the minimap, my goal now is to get the train running to all towns and resources 01:25:03 <dot_> but I want to add more trains 01:25:11 <FLHerne> The complete lack of signals in the second picture is quite worrying 01:25:24 <drac_boy> FLHerne so is the lack of real forced service too? ;) 01:25:25 <dot_> I want one train to do all the passengers and mail and one to get all the iron, etc. 01:25:30 <dot_> that's why I need signals 01:27:51 <peter1138> basically, stick with path signals 01:28:22 <peter1138> then, only put a path signal where you feel it is safe for a train to stop. safe here means it won't block the path of other trains coming in a different direction. 01:28:42 <dot_> I tried that but when I add one, they lock up waiting for a clear path when nothing is even there 01:28:50 <peter1138> you need more than 1 01:28:57 <dot_> so I'm guessing I put too many, or in the wrong places 01:29:00 <drac_boy> maybe because you didn't add a full path :P 01:29:13 <drac_boy> nothing like eg having a red signal that is in front of track that connects back to itself anyway 01:29:27 <drac_boy> other signals would had ignored that but what am I to say 01:29:39 <peter1138> *have 01:31:51 <FLHerne> http://imgur.com/unpR6 01:32:36 <FLHerne> I quickly drew up a pair of three-way junctions. They both do the same thing, but the big one won't have trains crossing in front of each other :P 01:32:52 <FLHerne> Note that I'm British, so my trains drive on the left ;-) 01:33:03 <michi_cc> peter1138: Re re-randomization, I think you do sometimes need CB 1, see my post. 01:33:40 <FLHerne> I'd just avoid having trains going in both directions on the same track until you've got used to how trains behave 01:34:12 <peter1138> michi_cc, it's not necessary but probably is simpler as otherwise you'd have to duplicate the RA2s 01:34:32 <FLHerne> Where by 'track' I mean 'track', not 'pair of parallel tracks' ;-) 01:35:23 <michi_cc> peter1138: Hmm, yeah, duplicating all RA2 as a dummy into the default chain could work as well. 01:35:40 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:36:05 <peter1138> michi_cc, for the usual use (with vehicles at least) just putting the RA2s in the normal sprite chain makes sense 01:36:08 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.16.122.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:18 <peter1138> but yeah, kinda different with how stations work 01:36:32 <peter1138> i think my first point is more important there :) 01:37:52 <dot_> so say I have a Y junction, where do I put the signals, at the 3 points? 01:38:05 <dot_> or should there be one in the middle of the split? 01:38:33 <FLHerne> dot_: Quite simply, I would avoid the kind of Y-junctions you have in your screenshot 01:38:39 <michi_cc> RandomActions where probably though up before widespread CB usage, and obviously such a usage is highly uncommon, otherwise somebody would have triggered that desync ages ago. 01:39:32 <FLHerne> It would be very difficult or impossible to signal them in such a way that you could get a reasonable throughput of trains and yet not jam them 01:39:46 <michi_cc> dot_: Nowhere. Single-track Y junctions have no safe point. Just imagine two trains that each want to go to the track the other comes from, there simply isn't any place to wait on each other. 01:39:58 <peter1138> michi_cc, why would it desync? 01:40:20 <peter1138> the random data is only ever changed during a trigger, regardless of whether an RA2 is reached 01:40:31 <michi_cc> peter1138: http://rbijker.net/openttd/might_work.diff 01:40:42 <dot_> what if I turned the Y design into a diamond shape? Would that be safe? 01:41:59 <FLHerne> dot_: See the kind of things I posted :P 01:42:15 <FLHerne> Predominantly single-track networks are a nightmare 01:42:26 <michi_cc> dot_: No, because it doesn't change the problem. What you need are either stations with more than one platform at each end or passing loops in each branch. There you have a safe place for trains to pass each other and can place signals. 01:42:29 <drac_boy> FLHerne how come I have lots of them? :P 01:42:40 <dot_> FLHerne, I saw it but it's too much 01:42:51 <FLHerne> They can be done ( I have quite a few), but not like that :P 01:43:25 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Single-track lines with passing loops is fine. Just building a network by drawing single tracks between everything doesn't work :P 01:43:35 <dot_> I think I'll just screw around and crash some trains. I've accumulated 70 mill so meh 01:44:12 <peter1138> oh god, people are using random triggers to set vehicle properties, not just graphic variations... o_O 01:44:41 <Pikka> I know I'm sure not, peter 01:45:18 <peter1138> and i know dbsetxl doesn't, but only cos that predates those other cbs ;) 01:45:24 <drac_boy> what they need is a 'rebuilt specifications' cb ;) 01:45:28 <drac_boy> heh 01:45:46 <Pikka> no it isn't 01:47:06 <peter1138> drac_boy, not really, iirc the spec doesn't really define when you can change specs 01:47:29 <peter1138> it wouldn't be a problem if we didn't cache the result. but then it would be horribly slow. 01:48:15 <drac_boy> mm it could had been nice tho. still seem silly to introduce a locomotive only to use another id to reintroduce it again 20 years later in a repowered form 01:48:37 <michi_cc> dot_: A very basic network, with two trains that each want to go to the other stations: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/p/deadlock.png 01:48:44 <peter1138> *have 01:49:03 <drac_boy> good one michi_cc 01:49:17 <drac_boy> looks like the early german highspeed trainset to me? :) 01:49:18 <michi_cc> dot_: There simply isn't any point on the network where one train can safely pass the other, which means you also don't have any safe point to put a signal at. 01:50:04 <peter1138> drac_boy, i never said you can't change the vehicle spec, that is, after all, precisely what CB 36, and the earlier separate ones, are designed for 01:50:42 <Pikka> although, from a design and gameplay point of view, changing a vehicle's stats in any major way is a terrible idea 01:50:57 <Pikka> I do it in av8 but that's because who cares about planes 01:51:01 <Pikka> :) 01:51:09 <peter1138> and in ukrs2! 01:51:16 <Pikka> no I don't 01:51:25 <Pikka> ! 01:51:27 <Pikka> lies! 01:51:27 <peter1138> speed limit of wagons based on purchase date 01:51:36 <Pikka> one wagon 01:51:37 <peter1138> or maybe that was in ukrs1 01:51:40 <Pikka> and it was a bad idea 01:51:52 <drac_boy> pikka actually it does make sense.. a 27 years old locomotive thats becoming <40% reliability verus a 0 year old locomotive with 89% reliability? 01:51:57 <Pikka> in the recent updates I split it into two separate vehicles 01:52:12 <peter1138> reliability is not set like that anyway 01:52:39 <peter1138> Pikka, what about your dual-powered engines? ) 01:52:40 <drac_boy> peter1138 well it apparently is, especially when you can't buy the original one anymore for that matter 01:53:10 <Pikka> I don't know what he's talking about either 01:53:24 <dot_> lol I've got 2 trains running with minimal waiting on my crazy track 01:53:35 <drac_boy> dot_ heh? 01:53:44 <peter1138> drac_boy, one day you'll have to read that newgrf spec, sorry. 01:53:50 <FLHerne> dot_: At some point, you might well find they get stuck :P 01:53:55 <drac_boy> peter1138 I don't need to reread it btw 01:54:00 <drac_boy> FLHerne maybe :) 01:54:11 <dot_> I think I just placed enough semaphores to make it happen 01:54:16 <peter1138> it's like you've seen bits but don't actually grasp what goes on 01:54:24 <peter1138> which, to be fair, is pretty normal :p 01:54:40 <dot_> nope, stuck 01:54:41 <drac_boy> peter1138 its not complicated to figure out that a locomotive thats past its age and yet can't be bought anymore really is lousy at breaking down a lot period ;) 01:54:57 <peter1138> tip, there's no newgrf property to set reliability as a figure 01:55:08 <FLHerne> dot_: As everyone's told you, that network is all but unsignallable :P 01:55:32 <drac_boy> FLHerne maybe he should invest in super-fast helicopters or even hoverboats..they don't need signals :) 01:55:39 <michi_cc> dot_: There are several ways to create some safe points, for example by giving one station two platforms, or by inserting a passing loop: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/p/better.png 01:55:40 <FLHerne> It's all single tracks, so there are no safe waiting points and hence no places to put signals 01:56:20 <dot_> the idea is that usually they're sitting in the station at some point while the other passes 01:56:26 <dot_> but I'm working on it 01:56:48 <FLHerne> dot_: That isn't a reliable way to do it :P 01:57:15 <dot_> I just wanted to see what semaphores would do with my current track 01:57:33 <michi_cc> dot_: The station has to use the two-way path signal, as trains must be able to pass it from the side without the lights as well. I could've used those also for the passing loop, but the one-way path signals is better here as it prevents unintentional "queue-jumping", where a train behind overtakes a train in front. 01:59:06 <peter1138> btw, michi_cc created our path signals, so he'll know ;D 02:00:24 <michi_cc> dot_: If you are absolutely sure a branch is only ever visited by a single train, putting a two-way path signal directly before the junction (with the lights away from the function) will work, but you must remember to upgrade that area if you ever want to send a second train down the same branch. 02:02:50 <michi_cc> Like Train 3 which I added in http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/p/single_train.png 02:03:17 <michi_cc> BTW, who's going creates/updates a wiki article with this stuff (nope, not me)? 02:03:41 <FLHerne> michi_cc: There already is, right? :P 02:03:58 <michi_cc> I don't think it has such nice pictures ;) 02:09:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:14:26 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 02:33:01 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:54 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083677.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 03:18:58 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:10 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:19:19 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:80cc:f174:bb7f:ecd8] has joined #openttd 03:23:03 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:03 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:15 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:40:18 *** lugo [lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:46 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 03:55:23 <dot_> so let's say I have a giant loop of everything. All one direction. Which signal is best to make sure the trains don't hit eachother and where do I place them, behind the stations? 03:57:30 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 04:01:35 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-079-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:01:37 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 04:02:12 *** glx_ [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:17:45 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:17:47 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34:06 <dot_> I went with 1 way path signals. Now I'm getting so much loaded that they're backing up and want to use an inner track I built to speed the process along. How would you suggest I make them cross over at need? X shape with signals before crossings or what? 05:19:14 *** Phillip [45e6a599@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:19:51 *** Phillip [45e6a599@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC674FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:28:53 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:47:00 *** bolli [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:58 <Pinkbeast> dot_: I don't know if you're still there, but all signals are equally good at making trains not hit each other. Trains will never collide unless you delete a signal that a train is approaching or order a train to pass a signal at danger. 07:28:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:29:38 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 07:38:50 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:58:45 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:10:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:14:52 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:23:17 <V453000> @seen frosch123 08:23:17 <DorpsGek> V453000: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <frosch123> night 08:23:20 <V453000> :( 08:24:02 <bolli> Withdrawal symptoms coming on? :P 08:34:33 <dihedral> good morning and a happy new year 08:39:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:53:02 <planetmaker> good morning 08:53:10 <planetmaker> and happy new year to all :-) 08:55:12 <dihedral> \o/ a pm in 2013 :-D 08:55:46 <peter1138> but is it a pm from planetmaker? 08:57:05 <planetmaker> and a dih in 2013 as well :-) 09:01:15 <dihedral> where? where? :-P 09:01:38 <planetmaker> under the couch! ;-) 09:06:37 * dihedral looks 09:09:37 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:13:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:13:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:30 <bolli> Why is work so tedious after a long break? :( 09:14:24 <dihedral> oh - it's boring this end 09:15:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-63-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:18:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 09:21:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:24 <peter1138> hi 09:30:31 <peter1138> i'll tell you waht 09:30:35 <peter1138> [5~3 hours sleep isn't enough 09:30:38 <peter1138> er 09:30:40 <peter1138> 3 hours 09:36:12 <peter1138> so anyone want to implement station triggers? :p 09:36:15 <peter1138> shouldn't be too hard 09:44:12 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:56:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:56:32 <Wolf01> moin 10:02:07 *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon 10:02:39 <Flygon> Menta 10:08:50 <dot_> why do resources keep disappearing? 10:09:16 <dot_> It shows that oil has been produced or anything and then shortly after they go to 0 10:09:35 <MINM> I assume the month would be over 10:09:55 <dot_> they disappear after a month? 10:13:57 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:15:13 <planetmaker> dot_, your station rating is < 50% 10:15:42 <planetmaker> then cargo waiting at your station will disappear 10:15:51 <planetmaker> slowly. faster the worse the rating 10:16:59 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:34 <Terkhen> good morning 10:25:08 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 10:37:47 <FLHerne> Morning 11:26:33 *** bolli1 [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has joined #openttd 11:31:33 *** bolli [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:48:57 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #openttd 11:50:45 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-228.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:55:53 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:04:03 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:31 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB26E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:02 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:39:05 <drac_boy> hi 12:50:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:20:33 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:35 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:59:22 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 14:06:34 <Flygon> Heya drac_boy 14:07:47 <__ln__> @seen Supercheese 14:07:47 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Supercheese was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 3 hours, 42 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Supercheese> I could do that... most any time 14:08:11 <drac_boy> how're you flygon? 14:08:27 <Flygon> I'm quite well 14:08:28 <Flygon> You? 14:08:32 <drac_boy> doing ok for now 14:08:49 <Flygon> Ok? Ok is good. :) 14:08:54 <drac_boy> :p 14:09:35 <Superuser> btw on new year's day I became #1 in like 5 years in a game, from £1 to some £220k, and that's despite hitting the vehicle limit (had 2 major competitors, 1 minor) 14:09:50 <Flygon> ... 14:10:18 <Superuser> another guy still had higher company value at £450k or so but I still beat him overall (top guy was a person who had about £170k at the start) 14:10:22 <Superuser> but damn I was proud 14:10:28 <Superuser> errone mad cos root is the best player 14:10:35 <Superuser> in the universe 14:12:14 <Flygon> http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=locomotives&class=ACB&orgstate=W&type=Diesel-Electric Apperantly the solution to locomotive upgrades is to just add more letters to class allocations @_@ 14:15:52 <Superuser> I think 'search term' or instead of 'search string' is much more user-friendly 14:15:56 <Superuser> what do you chaps think?# 14:16:14 <Superuser> Do note that most people that play OpenTTD have never written a line of code in their life. 14:17:30 <Flygon> I'm not most people 14:17:40 <Flygon> I'm the 1% 14:17:49 <Superuser> so many americans ITC 14:18:00 <Flygon> I'm Australian 14:18:08 <Superuser> I shouldn't even know that movement of idiot liberals is going in the USA 14:18:14 <Superuser> media genocide best day of my life 14:18:30 <Flygon> Sick of fiscal cliff media coverage too? 14:20:06 <Superuser> I see what you did there 14:20:43 <Flygon> Not really 14:20:47 <Flygon> Here, we have Idiot Liberals 14:20:57 <Flygon> Right wing idiot bigots, the lot of them 14:24:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:28:34 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:39:09 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:39:42 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:23 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:36 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:45:49 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:55:56 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:29 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:16:45 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:17:17 <drac_boy> what could aluminium be used for other than to produce goods... 15:17:21 <peter1138> bigotted liberals? that's kinda weird 15:18:26 <peter1138> use aluminium to produce aircraft to transport aluminium 15:18:50 <SpComb> aircraft factory! 15:19:08 <SpComb> train factory, wood wagon factory 15:19:10 <SpComb> step 1: punch trees 15:19:58 <peter1138> minettd? 15:20:14 * MINM chuckles 15:21:39 <drac_boy> aircraft factory could be interesting, would have to be of the small single-prop kind if its going to fit onto trains as an output cargo tho 15:21:48 <peter1138> . /gamemode 2 SpComb 15:28:13 <peter1138> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321048543069 15:28:18 <peter1138> yeah, i need that 15:31:20 <peter1138> that would've been a few grand when new 15:41:55 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB26E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:03 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB3A9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:44 <V453000> hm what does fluctuating economy exactly do except If the economy isn't set to steady, it may go into a recession, which causes a number of points to change. ... nothing? Just one every -time-, stuff drops? 15:49:16 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:36 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 15:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> allegedly, yes 16:03:56 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:17:29 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:47 <drac_boy> mm just asking but any of you know how common electric locomotives with 2-body 3-trucks configuration were? russia and italy had some classic ones 16:40:58 <drac_boy> ones afaik* 16:45:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure, but switzerland might have had some as well 16:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a fairly common model for DMU/EMU, but engines with that design are rather rare 16:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the "Flying Hamburger" had a configuration like that 16:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the TGV would have that as well, if you leave out the middle wagons :) 16:47:37 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:29 *** JamesGo [~james@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:48:44 <drac_boy> heh heh 16:51:10 <drac_boy> I always did wonder about that name eddi.. 'flying hamburger'? 16:51:20 <drac_boy> might be it means something different in translation 16:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it may have been a play on "flying dutchman" 16:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> just exchange "dutch" for "hamburg" 16:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it was basically the name for the prototype of the "Hamburg" type of express diesel railcar, there was also a "Cologne" type, a "Leipzig" type and a "Berlin" type 16:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes called "the flying trains" network 16:54:49 <drac_boy> hamburg makes a lot more sense 16:54:58 <Rubidium> and the hamburg one just separated? 16:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: obviously a "hamburger" is a person from hamburg 16:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like a "new yorker" is a person from new york 16:56:30 <Rubidium> or a newborn yorker ;) 16:56:31 <drac_boy> yeah...I guess there are some words thats strange in english 16:56:40 <drac_boy> because...who want an actual hamburger on rails? :P 17:05:42 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 17:10:39 * drac_boy is going to have some lunch now 17:10:42 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:14:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 17:16:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:25:56 <peter1138> good news everyone 17:26:27 <Sacro> you made the change? 17:31:07 <peter1138> yes 17:31:20 <peter1138> you didn't notice because it was a success 17:31:27 <peter1138> apart from the bit where sacro is now a man 17:38:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:39:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:42 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:11 <Sacro> lo, behold my mighty todger 17:52:13 <|Jeroen|> please keep your todger or whatever in your pants :-) 18:03:26 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 18:11:04 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:39:46 *** bolli1 [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24880 /trunk/src/lang (13 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-02 18:46:14 UTC) 18:46:34 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:35 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 25 changes by xiangyigao 18:46:36 <DorpsGek> czech - 3 changes by micropro_cz 18:46:37 <DorpsGek> estonian - 238 changes by notAbot 18:46:38 <DorpsGek> greek - 93 changes by Evropi 18:46:39 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 118 changes by Stimrol 18:46:40 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 131 changes by H2, Yoursnotmine, fanioz 18:46:41 <DorpsGek> italian - 5 changes by Snail_ 18:46:42 <DorpsGek> latvian - 11 changes by Parastais 18:46:43 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 19 changes by Stabilitronas 18:46:44 <DorpsGek> portuguese - 78 changes by Lux, fspinto, neuralshock 18:46:45 <DorpsGek> romanian - 4 changes by mariush 18:46:46 <DorpsGek> slovak - 104 changes by Romop5, Tinix 18:46:47 <DorpsGek> tamil - 1 changes by aswn 18:49:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24881 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2013-01-02 18:49:14 UTC) 18:49:20 <DorpsGek> -Fix: compilation error in language file 18:51:52 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:48 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:20:44 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:20:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:21:20 <Alberth> hello 19:30:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:32:08 <Alberth> o/ 19:32:44 <andythenorth> o- 19:32:45 <andythenorth> o/ 19:32:47 <andythenorth> o- 19:34:41 <Alberth> doing stretch exercises? :) 19:36:14 <andythenorth> :) 19:39:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7fd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:54 <Alberth> hi frosch 19:41:09 <frosch123> hai albert :) 19:41:15 <frosch123> happy new year! 19:42:24 <Alberth> good point :) 19:42:54 <Alberth> a good 2013 to you too (and to andy, and everybody else tuned in, at this channel of course) 19:43:36 <andythenorth> frosch123! :) 19:43:53 <andythenorth> would you like some SV results for your high score table? 19:43:57 <andythenorth> and could we automate that? 19:44:15 <frosch123> the high score table is only for nocargoal currently :p 19:44:31 <frosch123> automate would require some server and some admin bot :p 19:44:32 <andythenorth> erp 19:44:49 <andythenorth> how about just a forum thread? :P 19:44:52 <andythenorth> simples 19:45:22 <frosch123> a forum thread for something that changes continually` 19:45:27 <andythenorth> hmm 19:45:33 <frosch123> i think the wiki is still better for that :p 19:45:38 <andythenorth> maybe 19:45:42 <andythenorth> I hate wiki editing :P 19:46:02 <frosch123> also: i have to power to ban all douchebags from the wiki, while i cannot from the forums :p 19:46:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: but you also hate reading the forums 19:46:24 <andythenorth> he 19:46:27 <andythenorth> no 19:46:30 <andythenorth> I love reading the forums 19:46:31 <frosch123> (ok, technically for posting you do not have to read) 19:46:34 <andythenorth> gives me something to complain about 19:46:37 <frosch123> (and most apparently also don't) 19:48:27 <Alberth> in some forums, reading is not even required to stay on-topic :p 19:49:52 <andythenorth> anyway 19:49:53 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3449/Silcon%20Valley%207%20years.png 19:50:02 <andythenorth> MP game including alberth and pikka ^ 19:50:14 <andythenorth> 7 years 19:50:18 <andythenorth> lost :P 19:54:26 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3452/Silicon%20Valley%2075%20years.png 19:54:40 <andythenorth> SP, 75 years ^ 19:54:50 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3407/breweries.png 19:55:10 <frosch123> :o 19:55:39 <andythenorth> couldn't build source industries fast enough, got to about 12m litres quite fast, then couldn't easily stay above that 19:55:45 <frosch123> maybe that raises the interest of V453000 for goal games though :p 19:55:46 <andythenorth> was quite fun, but 75 years is too long 19:55:53 <andythenorth> 50 years would be about right 19:56:11 <andythenorth> our 7 year games are fun, but there is no progression of technology 19:56:26 <andythenorth> so a lot of the fun of vehicles sets is missed out 19:57:24 <frosch123> you mean you need a inverse daylength patch which gives new vehicles faster? :p 19:57:28 <V453000> idk about that :) 19:59:07 <andythenorth> we need to decouple dates :P 19:59:11 <andythenorth> from ticks 19:59:17 <andythenorth> or at least use a multiplier 19:59:24 <frosch123> time machine industry! 19:59:38 <frosch123> deliver cargo to make time run faster 20:03:28 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.131.41] has joined #openttd 20:03:57 <Alberth> and stop time when not delivering? hmm, that sounds like a zeno starvation problem :p 20:04:46 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:15 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:26 <planetmaker> hey ho frosch123 :-) 20:07:15 *** Fira [artix@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:19 <andythenorth> herp 20:07:36 <andythenorth> zeno: year 1 philosophy; pretty much the only good thing about year 1 20:09:51 <Alberth> hey ho planetmaker 20:10:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: so you learn by grep too? :P 20:10:22 <Alberth> 'ack', but yeah :) 20:10:42 <andythenorth> it's my standard practice now, find a gui string and work back 20:10:52 <andythenorth> I actually use my editor's seach, but same difference :P 20:11:08 <andythenorth> doesn't always work 20:11:17 <andythenorth> especially for stuff with no obvious string 20:11:28 <Alberth> even in FreeRCT I use this technique, and I wrote all that code :p 20:11:29 <andythenorth> but then something like a newgrf cb number can be useful 20:11:37 <andythenorth> I use it on code I wrote all the time 20:11:44 <andythenorth> 'knowing' a code base is a silly idea 20:11:55 <andythenorth> 'knowing' the architecture...yes 20:12:10 <andythenorth> distrust people who can remember functions in detail :P 20:12:26 <andythenorth> they've filled up some part of their brain, which disadvantages them in other tasks 20:12:32 <Alberth> oh, and auto-completion of the editor of course, which understands #include :) 20:12:58 <andythenorth> hrm, this is good http://www.flickr.com/photos/robiwan_kenobi/6004865379/in/photostream/lightbox/ 20:13:42 * Rubidium can remember at least three functions in detail ;) 20:14:02 <Rubidium> hello abs, min and max! ;) 20:14:14 <Alberth> :D 20:14:24 <Alberth> and SB and GB :) 20:14:46 <Rubidium> that requires thinking 20:15:03 <Rubidium> oh, Vehicle::First(), Vehicle::Next() are relatively easy as well 20:15:08 <Alberth> yeah, the parameter order is difficult, I agree 20:15:44 <Alberth> quite predictably in their function too 20:16:33 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.31] has joined #openttd 20:16:50 <peter1138> andythenorth, nice 20:17:02 <peter1138> steers by turning the 5th wheel? heh 20:18:07 <andythenorth> tempted to build one 20:18:11 <andythenorth> don't have a micromotor :P 20:19:03 <andythenorth> hmm 20:19:15 * andythenorth considers linear actuator for steering 20:20:02 <andythenorth> £14 for a micromotor :P 20:20:35 * andythenorth -> pub 20:20:37 <andythenorth> bye for today :P 20:20:47 <Rubidium> tss... 20:21:57 <Rubidium> just ask Grace Hopper for about 3 femtoseconds ;) 20:22:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:35:12 <peter1138> so do i have to look at station triggers again? :-( 20:37:59 <Rubidium> we'll won't force you, but feel very free to have a look at them 20:39:31 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:47:06 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:47:10 <drac_boy> hi 20:48:02 <Alberth> hi 20:48:45 <drac_boy> how doing Alberth? 20:49:21 <Alberth> I am trying to decipher your message :p 20:49:28 <drac_boy> heh heh 20:49:50 <Alberth> but for the first day at work again, not too bad 20:50:05 <Alberth> except this morning was much too early :( 20:52:01 <drac_boy> :) 20:54:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:16 *** Fira [artix@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #openttd 20:59:14 <Rubidium> see... how unreliable is this Fyra? Now it ended up in France... ;) 21:00:34 <drac_boy> Fyra .. the trainset right? 21:00:45 <Rubidium> yes 21:01:29 <Rubidium> I also wonder how someone dares to call AnsaldoBreda trains "good" 21:02:25 <Fira> o_O 21:02:32 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 21:02:33 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3299 21:02:33 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 21:04:08 <Rubidium> in Denmark they drove fairly frequently through red signals without even attempting to break, or coming to a stop after the signal. They even removed *all* AnsaldoBreda trains out of service for almost a year 21:04:19 <frosch123> peter1138: is there a testgrf meanwhile? 21:04:58 <Pikka> peter1138 made a grf? :D 21:05:08 <drac_boy> ansaldobreda...the same one that was so far behind on building trainsets and even then they had to be somewhat rebuilt by another company due to quality problems on DB's lines? 21:05:20 <drac_boy> I remember reading a bit about it early on but then never heard anymore 21:06:08 <Rubidium> oh, they were only 4 years late with the first vehicle in Denmark 21:06:40 <Rubidium> the Fyra was only 5 years late 21:06:46 <drac_boy> mm 21:06:49 <peter1138> well there's newstats... 21:06:59 <michi_cc> frosch123: According to mb current NewStations uses them. 21:07:10 <peter1138> old newstats uses them 21:07:19 <frosch123> does it? 21:07:26 <Rubidium> and when they were taken into service the trains failed to boot so often that trains more often did not reach the destination than reaching their destination 21:07:28 <frosch123> i thought i checked all station grfs two years ago 21:07:33 <frosch123> and noone used random triggers 21:07:39 <frosch123> everyone only does animation trigger 21:07:40 *** Guest3299 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:43 <Rubidium> frosch123: but... newstat is *new* 21:07:52 <Rubidium> like a few weeks/days 21:08:38 <drac_boy> rubidium reminds me of a certain australia emu running on windows NT for its status/doors/PA system .. and it was BSOD a lot of the times 21:08:40 <bolli> That sounds like VT after Operation Princess Rubidium? 21:09:01 <drac_boy> say I should ask flygon if he knew any more about that sort of thing 21:10:10 <peter1138> frosch123, it has randomaction2s in it 21:10:14 <bolli> drac, most trains in the UK run windows 3.1... 21:10:37 <bolli> Infact, a lot of things like cash machines and ticket machines do aswell 21:10:42 <drac_boy> 0_o 21:11:07 <bolli> They don't need anything fancy, and are less prone to crashes etc 21:12:05 <peter1138> grep -c " 02 04 .. 8[034] " newstatsw.nfo 21:12:10 <peter1138> 198 21:12:51 <frosch123> well, does it also set any triggers? 21:12:52 <peter1138> only 145 in the new version 21:13:17 <frosch123> i think build-time randomisation is also used by other sets 21:13:30 <frosch123> but i am not aware of any rerandomisation 21:13:43 <peter1138> no such thing 21:13:53 <Wolf01> https://www.humblebundle.com/ if somebody missed it, there is some time left 21:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i have seen ATMs running windows NT 21:13:57 <frosch123> (most likely because randomising the station bits makes no sense, and there are only 4? tile bits) 21:14:24 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and ticket machines in public transport running windows XP 21:16:20 <FLHerne> The simulator for the bell tower here runs Win95... 21:16:51 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:41 <Rubidium> frosch123: isn't it to get a different pattern of cargo or something? 21:17:44 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, newstats sets property 12 21:17:56 <peter1138> 4 bits is enough for graphical variation 21:18:20 <peter1138> as does ISR, in fact 21:21:30 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#random-triggers <- peter1138: i meant whether there is any ra2 setting one of those bits 21:38:00 *** bolli [~Sam@146.90.131.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:43:08 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:47:01 <peter1138> oh them 21:48:00 <peter1138> then yes 21:48:24 <peter1138> newstats sets bits 2 or 4 21:49:14 <drac_boy> would a part-train/part-hotel building still have been called a terminal or was there another generic name for them? 21:49:45 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what 21:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 's a "terminal"? 21:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i've only ever seen that name in railroad tycoon... 21:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (in context of trains) 21:54:15 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Might be a terminus, might just be a station (as with air/shipping terminal)? 21:54:30 <drac_boy> terminus...mm I guess theres that too 21:54:51 <FLHerne> I seem to remember a 'Grand Central Terminal' existing in the US somewhere? 21:54:55 <peter1138> well a terminus is just a station at the end of the line 21:58:00 <drac_boy> FLHerne there were 'grand...' and 'union...' in a lot of northeast cities 21:58:17 <drac_boy> cleveland union terminal ... grand central terminal .. etc etc 21:58:29 <FLHerne> drac_boy: It was the 'terminal' bit I was thinking about :P 21:58:32 <drac_boy> np :) 22:10:36 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 22:20:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24882 /trunk/src (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp) (2013-01-02 22:20:07 UTC) 22:20:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix: desync when NewGRF changes the stats related to acceleration (power, weight, tractive effort, etc) during service or 32 day triggers 22:21:25 <peter1138> ban randomisation :S 22:23:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so... apparently i'm an uncle now... 22:23:51 <Zuu> FLHerne: Do you have a savegame with Neighbours are Important that cause oscillation? (or do anyone else have a such savegame?) 22:24:10 <FLHerne> Zuu: Oscillation? 22:25:12 <Zuu> In principel it is easy. Grow 3 cities really large. At some point growth goals will start to oscillate. 22:25:25 <Zuu> The problem is that it takes a while to get there. 22:26:56 <Zuu> Some users reported this, and I have a fix ready but no test case to see if the fix solves their problem. The fix will cause all existing games to change behaviour, so its a good idea to have at least one test case to verify before releasing it. 22:28:08 <Zuu> The next version will contain a setting to revert to the old behaviour and a notice when you load it with the new GS version about this. Still, it will help to get it right from start rather than having to deal with a second model change and a second upgrade notice. 22:30:24 <FLHerne> I don't like huge cities, so no :P 22:30:46 <Zuu> Since I know you played NaI, I though I could ask if you have a such save game. But if you don't, don't take this as a request to create one. I'll have to wait for someone to provide one. 22:31:06 <Zuu> Its after all their problem :-) 22:31:28 <Zuu> I never grew a town that large that it start to oscillate. 22:31:48 <Zuu> s/a town/three towns/ 22:32:33 <Zuu> (I don't know if it is enough with 2 or if you need 3 for it to start oscillate. In theory I think it should be enough with 2, but the bug reports I got state 3 towns) 23:00:35 <Wolf01> 'night 23:00:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:04:21 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:37 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:28:42 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB3A9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi] 23:34:15 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:52:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]