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00:06:07 *** Arkabzol [~Arkabzol@c-7ac9e555.018-390-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:19 *** Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 00:15:37 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:17:59 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-24-105-140-5.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 00:19:22 *** Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:56 *** Sonny_Ji1 [~Sonny_Jim@90.197.159.163] has joined #openttd 00:26:41 *** Sonny_Jim [~Sonny_Jim@90.197.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:38:48 *** treaki_ [b1e1c62e04@p4FDF7E84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:39:16 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.84.25] has joined #openttd 00:41:30 *** treaki__ [5c548d81d1@p4FF4BECB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:48:36 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:06 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:56:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A186A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:37 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:09:20 *** zydeco [~zydeco@55.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Miscellaneous hardware exception error] 01:21:05 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:25 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 01:46:20 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 01:50:08 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:50:44 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:53:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:06:47 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-140-133-171.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 02:10:55 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.220] has joined #openttd 02:16:57 <Supercheese> Ahh, thanksgiving break is here, now I'll have time to work on grfs 02:19:18 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-192-224.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:18 *** RhinoZA [RhinoZA@8ta-228-145-134.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:46 *** RhinoZA [RhinoZA@8ta-228-218-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 02:22:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 02:44:15 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 03:06:51 *** RhinoZA [RhinoZA@8ta-228-218-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:14:28 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no thanksgiving breaks where i'm from 03:21:40 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@68.125.34.203] has joined #openttd 03:22:05 *** lugo [lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'm using a Free IRC Bouncer from BNC4FREE - http://bnc4free.com/] 03:24:32 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 03:39:47 <Supercheese> it does seem to be a rather American holiday 03:58:34 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43:58 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:46:42 *** xT2 [~ST2@2.81.241.193] has joined #openttd 04:48:20 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-255-205.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:48:20 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 04:50:35 *** ST2 [~ST2@2.81.241.193] has quit [] 04:55:39 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl20-241-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 04:58:01 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:45:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66780.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC664A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:20:29 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:34:43 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052145117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 06:39:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 06:40:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:41:47 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@g231210090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:39 <andythenorth> o/ 06:45:46 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.5.201] has joined #openttd 06:53:28 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.6.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:49 <Supercheese> hey ho 07:05:47 <alluke> mornin 07:06:30 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.246.242.118] has joined #openttd 07:20:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:28:56 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 07:33:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:34:51 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:57 * andythenorth wonders if there's a way to provide the 'game demands routes' aspect of YACD via a hack on subsidies 07:54:01 <andythenorth> or some kind of latent routes 07:55:16 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.246.242.118] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:55:48 <andythenorth> like a shadow link graph of unconnected nodes, which some portion of cargo is assigned to 07:57:34 <Supercheese> 'night 07:57:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 07:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. if you can find an efficient algorithm to find "all nodes" 08:02:35 <andythenorth> that's super hard for pax / mail, and simpler for most primary / secondary cargos? 08:09:04 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:20:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:27:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:27:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:34:13 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 08:46:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:50:44 <planetmaker> moin 08:53:59 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:10:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:30:31 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26080 trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp (2013-11-24 09:30:30 UTC) 09:30:37 <DorpsGek> -Fix: possible out of bounds array access 09:33:58 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 09:35:41 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:48 *** GriffinOneTwo_ [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 09:37:55 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@68.125.34.203] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:38:46 *** GriffinOneTwo_ is now known as GriffinOneTwo 09:50:52 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 09:52:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26081 trunk/src/company_base.h (2013-11-24 09:52:35 UTC) 09:52:42 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5815]: memset with virtual functions doesn't quite work. Upon further review CompanyProperties doesn't need to be virtual in the current code base 09:52:59 <LordAro> moin 09:59:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:59:37 <Wolf01> hello 10:04:15 <Alberth> moin 10:04:15 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:53 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-192-224.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:05:46 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 10:08:29 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 10:12:39 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:17:33 *** zydeco [~zydeco@55.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:23 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Quit: adf89] 10:23:38 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 10:39:06 *** kais58__7 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:50:28 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:59:37 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-140-133-171.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:06:11 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:01 <juzza1> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates "Don't use the pink colours like the ones marked "WinAPI" in the Windows palette." 11:13:04 <juzza1> why not? 11:16:11 <scshunt|nospoilers> juzza1: my guess would be that they are loaded from Windows and subject to change 11:21:36 <planetmaker> yeah. from windows 3.1 ;-) 11:23:19 <planetmaker> juzza1, the API colours are not used by OpenTTD. OpenTTD converts every windows (legacy) palette to its internal default (DOS) palette 11:23:25 <planetmaker> the API colours will not be converted 11:24:42 <planetmaker> as for the pink colours in the Default palette: you could use them. But they'll all be pink. And there's no guarantee that their interpretation and way to be displayed will be kept 11:25:22 <juzza1> ok 11:26:01 <juzza1> they were almost a mystery for me, not so much anymore :) 11:26:09 <juzza1> *always 11:26:30 <planetmaker> yeah, they were the colours MSDOS and windows used internally and which were not available to other stuff :-) 11:34:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:12 <peter1138> planetmaker, MS DOS didn't... 11:38:35 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:32 <planetmaker> well... why ever then the reserved colours might exist :-) 11:39:50 <planetmaker> maybe those were ms windows 3.1 and the so-called windows palette was for windows 95 11:40:04 <planetmaker> long ago :-) 11:41:16 <planetmaker> skyem123, what is a 4th rail railtype? 11:41:47 <skyem123> what ae you talking about? 11:41:48 <peter1138> Maybe they're just not used. 11:42:20 <planetmaker> skyem123, do you know http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Standardized_Railtype_Scheme ? 11:42:25 <skyem123> yes... 11:42:28 <peter1138> You get free reign of the graphics palette under DOS. DOS didn't use graphics modes... 11:42:42 <planetmaker> talking about http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1104444#p1104444 11:43:12 <skyem123> ah ok. 11:43:24 <peter1138> 4th rail is, e.g. London Underground. 11:45:17 <skyem123> I used fourth rail in my newGRF because i was thinking of the London Underground. 11:45:23 <planetmaker> ah, so that is not covered by foobar's treatise? 11:46:11 <Qantourisc> Is there an easy way to buy up and then sell company assets ? 11:46:15 <skyem123> 4th rail with catenary doesn't exist. 11:47:33 <peter1138> it could exist with mixed traffic 11:47:47 <peter1138> dunno if it does though 11:48:12 <skyem123> (in the rail scheme) 11:48:24 <peter1138> metropolitan line has mixed traffic, but it's mixed with diesels... 11:49:08 <skyem123> and steam engines. (London Underground 150th Anniversary) 11:49:12 <planetmaker> Suggest a new character to indicate 4-rail with overhead wires? 11:49:22 <planetmaker> and add that to that wiki page, I think 11:49:24 <skyem123> Y? 11:49:41 <planetmaker> why not, yeah 11:49:42 <skyem123> becuase 3rd rail + catenary is Z 11:50:01 <planetmaker> sounds plausible 11:50:34 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:51:50 <skyem123> so i can just add it to the table? 11:52:21 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:43 <planetmaker> yes. It's a wiki, even when it's a spec wiki :-) 11:53:01 <planetmaker> E.g. george and andy also edit the cargo label pages when needed :-) 11:53:21 <skyem123> ok 11:53:55 * skyem123 updates wiki and his newGRF 11:54:07 <planetmaker> :-) 11:54:36 <skyem123> my newgrf will be the first to support it :-p 11:56:10 <planetmaker> I'm not exactly sure how many vehicle NewGRFs actually support that extensive railtype scheme yet. But in my eyes it makes sense and keeps it reasonably flexible, thus the choice for players 11:56:21 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:36 <skyem123> hmm... 11:57:07 <skyem123> will my newGRF be backwards compatible when i add an new railtype? 11:57:27 <planetmaker> vehicle newgrfs which want to support railtypes reasonably when they define a railtype translation table 11:57:38 <planetmaker> yes, if you add fallback railtypes 11:58:09 <skyem123> i meant with itself. 11:58:22 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/files/28647d8272af444ab6c8edb4abfeaac01f178186/src/railtype_table.pnml 11:58:44 <planetmaker> with itself... if you change the railtype of vehicles rather not 11:59:04 <skyem123> i have 4th rail 11:59:06 <planetmaker> honestly, the backward compatibility of newgrfs with itself is overrated. Just mark it incompatible and don't worry 11:59:20 <planetmaker> it's safe and doesn't hurt in all usual situations 11:59:26 <skyem123> and it will be disabled by defualt. 11:59:36 <planetmaker> hu? 11:59:44 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 11:59:58 <skyem123> i have parameters that disable 4th rail. disabled by default 12:00:02 <planetmaker> well, backward compatibility of a newgrf with itself is only important for one case: 12:00:34 <planetmaker> you play a game which uses the old one. delete the old newgrf, download the new. Can you then continue the map with the new version of your newgrf without the map being borked? 12:01:01 <planetmaker> changed railtypes of vehicles would render vehicles broken 12:01:10 <planetmaker> changed meaning of parameters, too 12:01:23 <skyem123> not removing. adding. 12:01:31 <planetmaker> undefining labels used as well. 12:01:39 <planetmaker> defining something additional: that's safe 12:02:04 <planetmaker> but doesn't it mean that you undefine the label you used before? 12:02:32 <skyem123> no. i commented out 4th rail with catenary 12:02:34 <planetmaker> taking a game which enabled your new railtype by means of that parameter? Or is that parameter also new in the new version? 12:02:36 <planetmaker> ah 12:02:39 <planetmaker> then it's safe 12:02:46 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 12:02:58 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 12:03:01 <planetmaker> or at least backward compatible 12:03:06 <skyem123> yey! 12:04:56 <skyem123> i think i know know why the grf crashed the openttd.org servers 12:05:13 <skyem123> the grf block was after the graphics block. 12:06:04 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:11:51 <Alberth> sounds like a bug in nml 12:12:33 <planetmaker> yeah, it should catch that and remedy it 12:13:17 <planetmaker> skyem123, btw, the issue you opened at the nml tracker: it's not a grf which I can build; it's missing all graphics 12:13:25 <skyem123> oh... 12:13:33 <zydeco> it seems the changes in r26077 prevent it from opening grfs on osx 12:13:48 <planetmaker> you surely use some source control and could just bundle the whole thing? 12:14:20 <skyem123> i have a odd compiling environment. 12:15:32 <skyem123> do you use windows or linux? 12:16:02 <skyem123> or i could give you the gfx folder... 12:16:19 <planetmaker> what is odd about your environment? 12:16:49 <skyem123> i have windows. 12:16:54 <skyem123> gnuwin32 make 12:17:28 <skyem123> and strange things so i can use echo and del in make. 12:17:42 <planetmaker> I'll figure that out 12:18:16 <skyem123> i can just give you the files after preprocessing... 12:18:32 <Alberth> hmm, after 5 patches, you find out you forgot to add a new file to the first patch :p 12:18:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009e91.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:44 <planetmaker> hehe, Alberth :-) 12:18:56 <planetmaker> Alberth, hg amend might be your friend :-) and subsequent hg evolve :-) 12:19:21 <Alberth> I have qpop and qpush friends :) 12:19:26 <planetmaker> well, will do, skyem123 :-) 12:19:57 <skyem123> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5321798/newGRF_src/rail/rail.zip 12:20:48 <skyem123> that should work! 12:21:06 <planetmaker> ty 12:22:44 <planetmaker> do you also have cutom_tags.txt? :D 12:22:54 <skyem123> oops. 12:23:39 <skyem123> you get the new custom tags. 12:23:58 <skyem123> doesn't make any difference 12:24:04 <skyem123> redownload! 12:25:05 <frosch123> btw. skyem123: did you really meant to put a mailto address into the bananas "website" entry? 12:25:45 <skyem123> yes... 12:25:56 <skyem123> i have no website. 12:26:07 <skyem123> did i do somthing wrong? 12:26:19 <frosch123> no, but you are the first one to do so :) 12:26:31 <frosch123> usually people put there a link to a forum thread or something 12:26:42 <skyem123> i don't have a fourm thread. 12:27:35 <planetmaker> I believe you should create a public repository for your newgrf ;-) 12:28:03 <skyem123> how? 12:29:15 <planetmaker> :-) Have you ever worked with any kind of version control software, like mercurial, subversion or git? 12:29:25 <skyem123> yes 12:29:28 <skyem123> i use git 12:30:37 <planetmaker> so I assume you know github :) 12:30:48 <planetmaker> alternatively we could also host it on the DevZone 12:31:01 <skyem123> ok. 12:32:03 <skyem123> whitch one is better? 12:32:17 <planetmaker> I'm biased :-P 12:32:42 <skyem123> to what? 12:33:09 <planetmaker> well DevZone: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/ 12:33:20 <andythenorth> does devzone also have git? 12:33:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes. and no. 12:33:42 <skyem123> ? 12:33:50 <planetmaker> repositories no not a problem 12:34:17 <planetmaker> The build service might. As it currently assumes mercurial repositories 12:34:26 <planetmaker> but that's not necessarily linked 12:34:43 <skyem123> is the build system on linux? 12:35:24 <planetmaker> yes 12:35:34 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.214.6.170] has joined #openttd 12:35:38 <skyem123> then it cant compile anyway. 12:35:56 <planetmaker> Makefiles can be adjusted, you know 12:36:39 <skyem123> makefile.devzone makefile.skyem123? 12:36:46 <skyem123> seperate files? 12:36:55 <planetmaker> simply by detecting system 12:37:14 <skyem123> oh 12:37:29 <skyem123> can it check environment varibles? 12:38:05 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/make-nml/files/29c22f945ca5f5ac5795696db35ce4d3e4fd3b19/Makefile#L478 12:38:11 <planetmaker> ^ see there 12:38:52 <planetmaker> yet I'm sure that Makefile will fail on mingw as it hasn't been tested for ages there 12:38:58 <skyem123> that wont work on my build system 12:39:06 <skyem123> i use mcpp 12:39:39 <planetmaker> don't underestimate how modular that makefile is ;-) 12:40:40 <skyem123> how do i make a project? 12:41:58 <planetmaker> usual approach is to register with the DevZone and apply for a project. We can skip the last step and clear details here 12:42:11 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.5.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:38 <skyem123> i'm signed in to the devzone 12:43:20 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:44:02 <skyem123> so what do i do? 12:44:29 <planetmaker> I basically need two pieces of info: project name. And the 'project id' which basically would be the unique URL part / repository path 12:44:55 <planetmaker> and then I need the public part of your ssh key 12:45:03 <skyem123> "skyem123's rails" skyeRail 12:45:56 <planetmaker> mind if I keep it to small letters, skyerail? 12:46:16 <skyem123> ok 12:46:19 <skyem123> skye_rail 12:48:55 <skyem123> ssh key... 12:49:01 <skyem123> whats that? 12:50:56 <planetmaker> it's means to authenticate. Basically see https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/BITBUCKET/Set+up+SSH+for+Mercurial on how to create it. Obviously ignore the upload part - but I'll need that public key they tell you there to upload 12:52:37 <skyem123> should tortiose-git work? 12:52:42 <planetmaker> I assume so 12:52:58 <planetmaker> I've very little experience myself with both, git and tortoiseXXX 12:55:07 <zydeco> Rubidium: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5816 12:56:03 <Rubidium> woopsiedaisy 12:56:04 * skyem123 reinstalls PuTTY 12:56:31 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/skye_rails @ skyem123 12:56:45 <skyem123> thanks 12:56:50 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/skye_rail alternatively for repo view 12:57:47 <Rubidium> zydeco: ... but only when there is no internal path in the tar, right? 12:58:10 <Rubidium> zydeco: that's why I didn't notice it as basically everything I got reachable for OpenTTD is from bananas 12:58:32 <zydeco> it failed for me when loading opensfx from bananas 12:59:11 <Rubidium> hmm... that doesn't use paths? Could be?!? 12:59:28 <zydeco> and opengfx too when I removed it 13:00:02 <zydeco> it would happen on anything that doesn't have a prefix 13:00:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26082 trunk/src/fileio.cpp (2013-11-24 13:00:06 UTC) 13:00:14 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5816] (r26077): tar files with more than one file in the root directory would not be read properly (zydeco) 13:00:37 <zydeco> unless it's the first header 13:00:44 <Rubidium> zydeco: next time, if it's a bug and you have a patch, please mark it as a bug instead of patch 13:01:23 <zydeco> oh ok 13:01:28 <Rubidium> besides that, thanks ;) 13:01:45 <zydeco> I wasn't sure about that 13:05:13 *** KopjeKoffie [~KopjeKoff@ip5457bc21.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:43 <skyem123> planetmaker, how do i push to the repository? 13:07:36 <planetmaker> that needs the public key installed on our server first. Then git remote add origin ssh://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/skye_rail; git push -u origin master 13:07:55 <skyem123> how do i add the public hey? 13:07:57 <skyem123> *key 13:08:21 <planetmaker> give it to me. via irc, via link to a paste service, via link to that file... 13:08:30 <planetmaker> whatever suits you 13:08:42 <planetmaker> sorry, that's not automated yet 13:09:31 <skyem123> sent it to you in private chat. 13:09:50 <planetmaker> k, just saw that. My IRC window was too small to see that :D 13:11:51 <planetmaker> installed. Please try whether you're successful in pushing 13:12:13 <skyem123> fatal: '/skye_rail' does not appear to be a git repository 13:12:13 <skyem123> fatal: Could not read from remote repository. 13:13:03 <planetmaker> strange. The push seems to have been successful 13:13:37 <skyem123> SSH://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/~/hg/skye_rail 13:13:40 <skyem123> works 13:14:43 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:57 <Alberth> ~/hg ? 13:15:09 <planetmaker> that looks quite strange 13:15:16 <skyem123> SSH://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/~/skye_rail 13:15:17 <planetmaker> not ~hg/ 13:15:18 <skyem123> that 13:15:21 <planetmaker> ah 13:15:30 <skyem123> mistype! 13:15:31 <planetmaker> you scared me 13:15:33 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.103.163] has joined #openttd 13:15:44 <skyem123> sorry 13:16:25 <planetmaker> yeah, maybe gits wants its paths differently. It's the first git repo on our server now :-P 13:16:46 <skyem123> i'm doing a lot of firsts! 13:16:58 <planetmaker> :-) 13:17:15 <planetmaker> not a bad thing usually 13:17:51 <skyem123> first to use 4th rail with catenary, first to use a mailto: address, first to use a git repo on dev.openttcoop.org 13:19:44 <planetmaker> I can imagine a lot of worse 'firsts' ;-) 13:21:21 <frosch123> first to not put "grf { }" at the top of the nml file :p 13:21:56 <planetmaker> probably yeah :P 13:22:04 <zydeco> oh so it doesn't have to say grf? 13:22:13 *** Japa__ [~Japa@117.214.6.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:22:14 <skyem123> that still is a bug in NMLC 13:22:26 <planetmaker> could be a bug in the documentation, too ;-) 13:22:38 <Qantourisc> how do you turn of ufo ? 13:22:48 <planetmaker> disable disasters, Qantourisc 13:23:02 <Qantourisc> thx 13:30:30 <skyem123> how does the openttdcoop build service work? 13:31:57 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/ManagingCF @ skyem123 13:32:11 <planetmaker> basically: it needs a Makefile with the described targets. And setting up the project 13:32:18 <planetmaker> with the CF 13:33:10 <skyem123> i need to set up my make file environment detection. 13:49:36 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-140-133-171.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:54:32 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 13:54:38 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-203.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:00:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D7AE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:40 <andythenorth> I have to do railtype support for Iron Horse :( 14:15:55 <andythenorth> this does not fill me with enthusiasm 14:16:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that's easy... copy the railtype file I linked earlier and slightly adjust it 14:16:18 <andythenorth> :) 14:16:22 <andythenorth> I'll have to learn the spec first 14:16:34 <andythenorth> I never understand anything until I understand it :( 14:17:04 <Xaroth|Work> isnt' that always the case? 14:18:04 <planetmaker> all you need to do is basically: think about a priority list of railtypes for your vehicles, down from the most specialised one (preferred) to RAIL/ELRL (least preferred) 14:18:05 <planetmaker> done 14:19:55 <andythenorth> ok, so it cascades, most specific preference first 14:20:01 <planetmaker> yes 14:20:36 <planetmaker> each preference-cascade gets its own name within your vehicle grf. That name is used as pseudo-railtype 14:20:39 <planetmaker> for your vehicles 14:20:59 <planetmaker> that itself is (and must be) meaningless outside your grf 14:22:32 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-140-133-171.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:23:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 14:24:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 14:26:52 <andythenorth> ho ho what fun 14:26:54 <andythenorth> so many labels 14:27:00 <andythenorth> but we had that conversation last time :) 14:28:43 <andythenorth> ok, so the table contains mappings 14:28:57 <andythenorth> in that case, how hard can this be? :P 14:28:57 <planetmaker> yup. railtype translation table 14:29:33 <planetmaker> not hard. tedious 14:29:35 * andythenorth will now reveal poor understanding of logic 14:29:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26083 /trunk/src (station_gui.cpp station_gui.h) (2013-11-24 14:29:32 UTC) 14:29:40 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: pass the CommandContainer for the station joiner around using a reference instead of by-value 14:29:43 <andythenorth> so take the case of metro trains 14:29:52 <andythenorth> I want them to *only* use Metro track, if available 14:30:00 <andythenorth> and fallback to ELRL if no metro 14:30:18 <planetmaker> METRO: [MTRO, ELRL] 14:30:20 <andythenorth> (this may be a bad idea for confusing players, but let's assume not) 14:30:30 <planetmaker> and use railtype 'METRO' for that vehicle 14:30:33 <LordAro> Rubidium: you've been busy this weekend :) 14:30:39 <planetmaker> and the first quoted line within the RTT 14:30:58 <andythenorth> and if my game happens to contain both MTRO and ELRL, the vehicle will run on MTRO only, or both? 14:31:05 <planetmaker> it doesn't mean it'll run on both, MTRO and ELRL if available. Only the most preferential 14:31:10 <andythenorth> I guess I'm asking about compatibility vs. exclusion 14:31:23 <planetmaker> compabibility is determined by the actual NewGRF defining the most-preferred, available railtype 14:31:26 <andythenorth> ok 14:31:41 <andythenorth> so I can delegate that 14:31:46 <planetmaker> NML's RTT bascially resolves to a chain of action6 14:31:53 <planetmaker> and action7/9 14:32:18 <planetmaker> so the vehicle has only one railtype - depending on available railtypes. Compatibility is for the railtype to define 14:32:30 <andythenorth> ok thanks 14:33:04 <Rubidium> LordAro: yeah... holiday sprint season ;) 14:33:10 <LordAro> :) 14:33:31 <Rubidium> or rather... just not having done lots of coding for $JOB lately 14:34:20 <LordAro> :( 14:34:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26084 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-11-24 14:34:33 UTC) 14:34:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix: don't allow executing the palette toggling code when it's not editable 14:35:27 <andythenorth> hmm 14:35:31 <andythenorth> MTRO is not used by Metro 14:35:32 <andythenorth> :P 14:35:59 <Qantourisc> how to prevent trains from reversing ? 14:36:02 <Rubidium> and being mostly finished with moving house increases the amount of time that can be spent on frivolous things such as openttd 14:36:23 <LordAro> :) 14:36:28 <LordAro> frivolous? :O 14:36:32 <Qantourisc> smaller maps ? 14:36:40 <Qantourisc> (well routes) 14:37:19 <Qantourisc> ok the train is trying to ride off the rails .. 14:38:22 <Rubidium> Qantourisc: depends on the reason why they are reversing; could be a setting, or something broken in the network (signal, electrification) 14:38:28 <Qantourisc> ow rails wasn't electrifiled 14:41:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26085 /trunk/src (27 files) (2013-11-24 14:41:19 UTC) 14:41:25 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Pass ResolverObjects as reference instead of pointer since they are never NULL. 14:46:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26086 /trunk/src (15 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-24 14:46:26 UTC) 14:46:32 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: use AutoDeleteSmallVector instead std::list for dropdowns 14:46:47 *** robotboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:49:57 <LordAro> why the hate for the STL? 14:50:07 <LordAro> or, what's the difference? 14:50:15 <Qantourisc> stl:: ? or a differnt stl ? 14:50:31 <frosch123> stl::vector != boost::ptr_vector 14:50:58 <LordAro> *std:: 14:51:06 <frosch123> yeah, something looked wrong :p 14:51:12 <frosch123> but could not figure out out 14:51:34 <LordAro> oh, is AutoDeleeteSmallVector an implementation of boost::ptr_vector? 14:51:51 <frosch123> if you ignore the details 14:51:54 <frosch123> then yes :p 14:51:56 <LordAro> :) 14:52:45 <LordAro> you could just use std::list<std::[shared|unique]_ptr<Type>> :p 14:53:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:04 <frosch123> yeah, and decrease the max train count to 50 14:53:23 <planetmaker> :D so much bloat there? 14:53:28 <LordAro> slight difference in outcome ;) 14:54:46 <LordAro> planetmaker: ? 14:55:28 <frosch123> well, unique_ptr could actually work 14:55:47 <LordAro> but no c++11 allowed yet, i guess :L 14:58:27 <LordAro> despite there being a 'hidden' static_assert() in stdafx.h ;) 15:00:45 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 15:02:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26087 trunk/src/fileio.cpp (2013-11-24 15:02:05 UTC) 15:02:12 <DorpsGek> -Fix: file descriptor leak when finding a corrupt tar 15:02:30 <andythenorth> hmm 15:02:40 <andythenorth> implementing electro-diesel engine (bi-mode) 15:02:42 <andythenorth> interesting 15:04:10 <Rubidium> those would be interesting on some routes in the NLs 15:04:44 <Rubidium> and it shouldn't be that hard; it's mostly placing a panto on an already diesel-electric train ;) 15:04:56 <andythenorth> so set the railtype to RAIL 15:05:02 <andythenorth> but use cb36 to check for ELRL 15:05:08 <andythenorth> hmm 15:05:16 <andythenorth> is current railtype of the depot available in buy menu? :P 15:05:51 <peter1138> Why? 15:06:15 <frosch123> no, it isn'T 15:06:18 <andythenorth> power varies according to railtype 15:06:38 <andythenorth> I'll work around it 15:06:41 <frosch123> put it in the description 15:06:49 <frosch123> don't surprise the player 15:07:09 <peter1138> Yup, specify both. 15:10:22 <andythenorth> ok 15:13:42 <Qantourisc> are there "better" maglev textures ? 15:14:10 <frosch123> multiple 15:14:33 <Qantourisc> opengfx donwload from ingame ? 15:14:44 <frosch123> there are specific maglev track sets 15:14:47 <frosch123> just search for maglev 15:17:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26088 /trunk/src (rail_gui.cpp widgets/dropdown_type.h) (2013-11-24 15:17:53 UTC) 15:18:00 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26086): Windows compilation 15:21:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26089 /trunk/src (fileio.cpp openttd.cpp) (2013-11-24 15:21:38 UTC) 15:21:45 <DorpsGek> -Fix: a number of minor memory leaks 15:21:53 <Qantourisc> Would this change work inj the "background-map" ? 15:25:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26090 trunk/src/game/game_text.cpp (2013-11-24 15:25:41 UTC) 15:25:48 <DorpsGek> -Fix: leaking of file descriptor when reading strings for game texts 15:28:48 <Alberth> Qantourisc: you mean in the game playing on startup? no 15:30:00 <Qantourisc> smolly zbase is ungly :) 15:30:15 <LordAro> :( 15:31:04 <Qantourisc> If I can get 16 other blender peaple, or a lot of time, i'd start on it :) 15:31:12 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:36 <planetmaker> Qantourisc, it doesn't need 16 more people. It needs to acually *start* 15:31:48 <planetmaker> Every journey starts with a first step 15:31:54 <Qantourisc> ow hmmm 15:31:57 <planetmaker> And not with trying to gather a whole climbing party 15:32:27 <Qantourisc> well ... imo, for 32 bit you either need good 2D drawing artists, or peaple with a 3D tool to render it ... 15:32:53 <planetmaker> yes. Sure. For instance blender like you said. 15:33:06 <planetmaker> But if you're one of the blender people you could already make a start 15:33:12 <planetmaker> Or rather the 2nd step. zBase is a first 15:33:26 <Qantourisc> howmany sprites we talking about btw ? :) 15:33:54 <planetmaker> a whole base set is around 10k 15:34:08 <planetmaker> That's a lot. But as said: every start is small 15:34:19 <Qantourisc> 10k ? 15:34:21 <planetmaker> one can start with a house. Or with a certain ground type 15:34:29 <Qantourisc> howmany of those are "duplicate" ? 15:35:04 <Qantourisc> hmmm not a lot it seems :p 15:35:08 <planetmaker> what's your definition of 'duplicate'? Each looks different. But many are ground tiles, different rails and roads 15:35:29 <Taede> or different views of the same vehicle 15:35:31 <Qantourisc> well if you do it in 3D, you can auto-rotate-and-render so it's 2.5k the :p 15:35:53 <planetmaker> yes... somewhat 15:37:11 <Qantourisc> sounds like fun :p, but i'll probably end up making like 128 max.... 15:37:29 <planetmaker> if you checkout zBase's sources, you'll see and find that it actually uses that kind of technique 15:40:28 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/zbuild and especially its (sub-)repo https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/zbase 15:40:53 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:58 <Superuser> http://imgur.com/a/wBsn8 15:42:24 <Qantourisc> hmm it's blender ! 15:42:41 <planetmaker> yes, it is 15:43:03 * Qantourisc checks it, but fears the contents :) 15:46:54 <LordAro> Qantourisc: also note that zBase was drawn entirely by 1 person, over a period of about 3-6 months ;) 15:47:05 <Qantourisc> :) 15:47:22 <Qantourisc> nice work on that timespawn 15:47:27 <Qantourisc> but I directly something weird 15:47:38 <LordAro> zephyris is unmatched in drawing speed/skill 15:47:58 <Qantourisc> the max-res-render is not rendered at aliased edges 15:48:04 <Qantourisc> while rescale at first sight would ? 15:49:36 <Qantourisc> ow my bad 15:49:47 <Qantourisc> the default view was just on this mode :) 15:51:33 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:09 * Qantourisc stops looking and releases he has other unfinished projects 15:56:38 * Qantourisc is still confused why the multi-export setting is inside blender :p 15:56:48 <Qantourisc> o well :) 15:57:00 <planetmaker> probably easier scripted? 15:57:37 *** treaki_ is now known as treaki 15:58:03 *** zydeco [~zydeco@55.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Miscellaneous hardware exception error] 15:58:05 <Qantourisc> well it's not the easy part i'm woried about 15:58:15 <Qantourisc> it's the "what if you want to change something ?" 15:58:26 <Qantourisc> like for example use a differnt interpolation scaling method 15:58:32 <Qantourisc> edit each blender file by hand ? 15:59:25 <planetmaker> dunno whether you can apply a setting template to a file with one click (or a few) 15:59:52 <Qantourisc> well you can import the node system iirc, but feels like just hurting yourself :) 15:59:55 <Qantourisc> then again 15:59:56 <planetmaker> Qantourisc, if it's possible to specify those things outside the single blender files: that's likely a good thing 15:59:59 <Qantourisc> windows users don't have bash :) 16:00:26 <Qantourisc> so it would make a lot of sence to do it in blender on windows :) 16:00:46 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:11 <planetmaker> there's also bash for windows ;-) 16:02:15 <Superuser> y'all should just use emacs, which reimplements a lot of gnu tools in elisp 16:02:23 <Superuser> (instead of cygwin) 16:02:31 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:27 <LordAro> urgh, emacs 16:03:40 <Qantourisc> i know but notper default or easy :p 16:04:24 <planetmaker> windows doesn't ship with blender by default either 16:04:34 *** chester_ [~chester@89-178-254-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 16:04:37 <planetmaker> windows ships with basically nothing by default ;-) 16:04:53 <V453000> has internet exploder what else do you need 16:05:12 <Qantourisc> problaby want to add imagemagick to the list of tools :) 16:05:20 <planetmaker> true enough. You get everything else you ever want by simply using that. With or without your consent :-P 16:05:35 <Qantourisc> convert -resize 64 iirc :p 128.png 64.png 16:06:02 <Qantourisc> :d 16:06:07 <planetmaker> :-) 16:06:40 <Qantourisc> yea i see a lot of computer passing by with shit from inet 16:06:51 <Qantourisc> i always wonder if those peaple click on stuff or not to get them 16:07:11 <Jomann> is there any trick to increase production of banks? 16:07:31 <Qantourisc> Jomann: fund another ? 16:07:38 <Qantourisc> Jomann: increase popuplation of town ? 16:07:57 <Jomann> increasing population helps? 16:08:08 <Kjetil> Is there any way of disabeling industrytypes from being generated ? 16:08:43 <Qantourisc> Jomann: don't know sorry 16:09:08 <Alberth> Kjetil: new game -> amount of industries -> funding only ; generate 16:09:37 <Qantourisc> how do you peaple manage to keep motivated to contribute ? 16:09:47 <Alberth> although technically, it generates industries rather than industry types 16:10:15 <Alberth> Qantourisc: depends on the person; for me it's finding out how things work 16:10:15 <LordAro> Qantourisc: good question :) 16:10:32 <Qantourisc> personally i'm to stressed often 16:11:06 <Kjetil> Alberth: then I don't have enough space credits to get any industries :P 16:11:14 <Alberth> Qantourisc: you should make a few changes in your life then 16:11:34 <Qantourisc> or are your lives "ok" enough that you don't have this issue, and have enerefy left ? 16:11:53 <Qantourisc> Alberth: if only depended on me would be done by now, but takes some pushing and time 16:12:17 <Alberth> Kjetil: set the amount of indsustries ; do not press generate ; go to the scenario editor ; make yourself a bunch of industries ; save ; play scenario 16:12:50 <Kjetil> hm. ok 16:13:15 <Alberth> Qantourisc: messing with code and stuff is the relax activity :) 16:13:37 <Qantourisc> can also be fustrating 16:13:41 <Qantourisc> depends on the amount of "pressure" 16:13:54 <Alberth> you are the one making pressure 16:14:04 <Alberth> which you shouldn't do :) 16:14:19 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 16:14:26 <Alberth> time is irrelevant here 16:14:43 <Alberth> unlike the real world :p 16:15:08 <LordAro> :D 16:17:45 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.220] has joined #openttd 16:21:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26091 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2013-11-24 16:21:19 UTC) 16:21:26 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26089): double frees... woospie 16:23:01 <Qantourisc> double free ? smells like c 16:24:16 <LordAro> it does, unfortunately :L 16:24:40 <LordAro> OTTD was originally written in C, and still retains quite a few C-like features 16:26:12 <andythenorth> 32bpp should be done by rendering from a voxel generator :P 16:26:21 <andythenorth> it would be like drawing pixels, only more dimensions :P 16:26:32 <frosch123> cubicle constructor :p 16:26:37 <andythenorth> and would retain the TTD feel, instead of feeling like cheap, amateur CGI 16:26:59 <andythenorth> there should be a palette of textures for it, limited to say 256 or so :P 16:27:09 <andythenorth> constraints = useful 16:27:40 <andythenorth> voxel games are actually appealing to look at, most mesh stuff is kind of ugly, or sacharine, or uncanny valley 16:28:19 <planetmaker> zbase might actually be in that exact valley 16:29:31 <Qantourisc> it feels like amateur becaus eit probalby is :) good lookin is hard 16:29:49 <andythenorth> just render everything in minecraft? 16:29:52 <andythenorth> might work 16:30:12 <andythenorth> or in LDraw http://www.ldraw.org 16:33:01 <Qantourisc> what you need is good textures + a set of materials 16:33:12 <planetmaker> he's not an artist by education, yes 16:33:33 <Qantourisc> well good news you don't learn that at school :) 16:33:36 <Qantourisc> well helps :) 16:40:18 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:22 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:47 <planetmaker> well, there are art schools. But art is probably not a requirement with what he does ;-) 16:46:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:46:10 <planetmaker> he seems to like image processing / generation / stuff like that a lot, though :-) 16:49:14 <Qantourisc> maybe I should try 1 blender ? 16:49:35 <Qantourisc> ow and we need a HRDI texture 16:49:51 <planetmaker> HRDI? 16:49:54 <Qantourisc> yes :) 16:50:06 <Qantourisc> https://www.google.be/search?q=HDRI&client=firefox-a&hs=XTe&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Ny6SUt2MK4nkswb9wIHABw&ved=0CAUQ_AU 16:50:29 <Qantourisc> for anything reflective 16:51:45 <planetmaker> I know that as HDR :-) 16:53:11 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:59 <Qantourisc> i is for image :) 16:54:57 <planetmaker> yeah. HDRi instead or HRDi ;-) 16:55:28 <Qantourisc> oeps my bad 16:55:49 <frosch123> high-definition random image? 16:55:55 <Qantourisc> :) 16:55:57 <planetmaker> I'm not exactly sure how hdr helps though 16:55:58 <Qantourisc> would work 16:56:04 <frosch123> highly-random definition image? 16:56:26 <planetmaker> frosch123, high dynamic range. Thus more than 8 bit per channel 16:56:35 <frosch123> ah, range 16:58:36 <planetmaker> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107191069901530811927/albums/5588142349480607121/5656433830612933586?pid=5656433830612933586&oid=107191069901530811927 <-- like composed of three different exposures. And logarithmically added 16:59:14 <planetmaker> difficult to convey without reduction to 8 bit again :-) 17:00:23 <frosch123> is that something the camera does on its own? 17:00:29 <planetmaker> no 17:00:34 <frosch123> or do you need a tripod and switch the camera settings? 17:00:36 <planetmaker> at least not mine 17:00:46 <planetmaker> yes, a tripod helps tremendously :-) 17:00:55 <Qantourisc> http://www.hdrlabs.com/gallery/realhdr/ 17:00:59 <planetmaker> tripod + exposure sequence 17:01:01 <Qantourisc> that show hdri in "action" :) 17:02:15 <frosch123> Qantourisc: pm is my reference-photographer :p 17:02:37 <frosch123> he is not my reference-astronomer though 17:02:44 <planetmaker> :-( 17:02:54 <frosch123> my brother does that :p 17:02:58 <Qantourisc> frosch123: some camares do have a multiple-exposure feature 17:03:00 <planetmaker> he :-) 17:03:15 <Qantourisc> frosch123: but not all, and it assumes "still" images 17:05:32 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/m51_color.jpg <-- also HDR :-P 17:05:40 <planetmaker> 3*30 minutes exposure :D 17:05:52 <planetmaker> but still not nice :-( 17:06:01 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 17:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "also HDR" is a weird phrase, because it means something entirely unrelated if you read it in german :p 17:12:21 <planetmaker> hm... what does mean? :-O 17:13:40 <frosch123> lotr maybe 17:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 17:13:56 <frosch123> but it would be HdR 17:14:21 <frosch123> if you start with capticalisation, you need to do it right :p 17:14:40 <planetmaker> doh. I should have known that one :-) 17:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but then it would be LotR 17:14:56 <frosch123> all lower case is valid in irc 17:15:16 <frosch123> all upper case is also valid, but results in kick :p 17:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 17:16:08 <frosch123> planetmaker: is that with or without telescope? 17:16:48 <planetmaker> that's with an 8" telescope f/8 17:17:26 <frosch123> hmm, i might have no adjust my astronomer reference then 17:17:36 <planetmaker> sadly the electronics are broken and spare parts non-existant even at the manufacturer :-( 17:17:38 <frosch123> iirc my brother did not manage to photograph through his telescope 17:18:17 <planetmaker> and without those, no star tracking, no photography 17:18:20 <frosch123> what kind of electrioncs? 17:18:30 <frosch123> oh, star tracking 17:18:33 <planetmaker> basically the main board of the telescope 17:19:09 <frosch123> can't you just stop the earth? 17:19:26 <planetmaker> so it doesn't allow positioning anymore properly etc. yeah. I could. I'm scared of side-effects, though 17:19:29 <planetmaker> mainly on wheather 17:19:36 <planetmaker> weather 17:20:13 <planetmaker> the change would not be backward-compatible. Loading old savegames then would fail ;-) 17:20:16 <frosch123> i've heard the earth rotation has been mainly driven by musicians rolling over in their graves in the past years 17:20:34 <planetmaker> maybe. But how could I stop them doing so? 17:20:53 <planetmaker> It's not like I can change contemporary music :P 17:20:58 <frosch123> remove the atmosphere 17:21:00 <frosch123> no air, no sound 17:22:35 <planetmaker> hm... that's bad for photography again. Air kinda makes for the rather smooth intensity variations between shadow and sun light 17:22:51 <frosch123> :p 17:22:51 <planetmaker> w/o atmosphere it's either sun light or pitch dark 17:23:15 <planetmaker> :-) 17:23:27 <frosch123> does it need air for dust? 17:23:38 <planetmaker> no. The moon is my proof 17:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> so it doesn't allow positioning anymore properly etc. yeah. I could. I'm scared of side-effects, though <-- you just need two servo elements and a PLC? 17:23:52 <planetmaker> Or the suits of the astronauts who walked there 17:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> or possibly 3 17:25:28 <planetmaker> quite a lot of logic to programme :-) 17:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just 3 "simple" formulas, input is position, direction and time, output is 3 angles 17:27:05 <planetmaker> not exactly. that's the principle, yes. But this telescope allows to add corrections for a CCD, to allow tracking in sub-pixel accuracy when using an appropriate camera 17:27:17 <planetmaker> so you need to allow for feedback 17:27:17 <Superuser> programme is a noun. Program is the verb 17:27:19 <Superuser> planetmaker, ^ 17:28:18 <planetmaker> and you still haven't then taught how to adjust to latitude 17:29:21 <planetmaker> there's one guy who can somewhat put a replacement system into telescopes. But 1000⬠is also a lot of money 17:43:58 <Qantourisc> and programmed is the victem :) 17:44:19 <Qantourisc> wait no 17:44:24 <Qantourisc> programme is also the victem 17:46:06 <andythenorth> these 3-part 'vehicles are made of articulated vehicles' make my brain hurt sometimes 17:46:07 <andythenorth> nvm 17:46:25 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:00 <frosch123> don't try to get rid of it 17:49:29 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-114.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:51:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:14 *** namad8 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-114.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:14 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:02:33 <chester_> andythenorth: hi, a year ago we were discussing js and python, remember? 18:04:11 <chester_> i said i'll find a job with js and i have half year exp with it and can say its not as bad as you said 18:06:30 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:09 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:36:04 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-140-133-171.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 18:38:08 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:47:04 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.220] has joined #openttd 18:49:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:17:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D7AE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:20:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> chester_: i'm sure we have over two dozen $language vs. $language discussions per year. they bear very little meaning 19:27:48 *** Sonny_Ji1 [~Sonny_Jim@90.197.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:31 <Rubidium> that jsharp still exists 19:30:54 <chester_> Eddi, i took part only in one, we had no conclusions then 19:46:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26092 /trunk/src (command.cpp script/api/script_object.cpp) (2013-11-24 19:46:16 UTC) 19:46:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5818]: prevent scripts from crashing OpenTTD when they send text with command codes to user editable texts such as sign and station names 19:53:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26093 trunk/src/script/api/script_object.cpp (2013-11-24 19:53:35 UTC) 19:53:42 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26092): compilation error 19:56:16 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 19:57:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r26094 /branches/1.3 (19 files in 5 dirs) (2013-11-24 19:57:23 UTC) 19:57:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk: 19:57:34 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Script] Prevent scripts from crashing OpenTTD when they send text with command codes to user editable texts such as sign and station names [FS#5818] (r26093, r26092) 19:57:35 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Occasional hanging when client joins [FS#5811] (r26043) 19:57:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Multi line text was handled incorrectly causing glitches [FS#5809] (r26037, r26036) 19:57:37 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 19:59:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26095 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-11-24 19:59:51 UTC) 19:59:58 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: documentation 20:01:28 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:01 <LordAro> another release? 20:03:09 <LordAro> it's only been a week 20:03:40 *** Cirno [~Arkabzol@c-7ac9e555.018-390-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 20:04:07 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 20:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> where did you read "release"? 20:05:09 <LordAro> well, the documentation has dates 20:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody ever reads the documentation :p 20:06:15 <LordAro> :p 20:06:22 <LordAro> including you :p 20:06:23 <Xaroth|Work> for once I'd have to agree with Eddi|zuHause 20:07:26 <Xaroth|Work> how's rct going, Aro? 20:07:38 <LordAro> not bad 20:07:41 <LordAro> making progress 20:07:53 <LordAro> we can display coaster tracks now :) 20:08:02 <Xaroth|Work> \o/ 20:08:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26096 /tags/1.3.3-RC2 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-24 20:08:28 UTC) 20:08:35 <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.3.3-RC2 20:08:43 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: there: ^ :p 20:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: it's still "just" a release candidate, so you can expect another "release" fairly soon anyway 20:10:28 <LordAro> oh i know, but i still think a week between release candidates is quite quick 20:10:36 <LordAro> as per usual, anyway 20:10:47 <Xaroth|Work> meh 20:10:54 <Xaroth|Work> rubi has been doing a looot of commits the past few days 20:10:59 <LordAro> ^ 20:12:04 <LordAro> wiki updated :) 20:19:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:23:48 *** tomlane [~textual@0540f378.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 20:25:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:55 <andythenorth> chester_: there are plenty of good js jobs, js is just a language I like to disparage 20:26:04 <andythenorth> I used to write it when it was broken 20:26:11 <andythenorth> that was boring 20:26:25 <andythenorth> I got burnt, I've maintained a small level of hatred ever since :) 20:26:47 <andythenorth> otherwise it's just a language ;) 20:27:02 <tomlane> I am having trouble getting the soundtrack to play on OS X, I have tried two different sound packs so I am guessing it is a system issue of some sort. I have freepats and timidity installed via homebrew. Any ideas? 20:31:55 <michi_cc> OS X isn't using timidity. There used to be a MIDI/Core Audio control panel somewhere (no idea if it is still there in current OS versions), maybe a wrong output device is activated. 20:31:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:32:31 <tomlane> michi_cc, I have sound effects but no music 20:32:48 <planetmaker> then, how did you install the music sets? 20:33:27 <michi_cc> Check the OTTD jukebox if music is in fact running and if not, hit play. 20:34:54 <planetmaker> did you select the music set in the game options? 20:35:47 <chester_> ive been full-time js programmer for half a year, its not just a language, its front-end language, 'front' meaning modern, from which other languages borrow 20:35:59 <tomlane> *doh* too used to it autoplaying, thanks for the help >< 20:39:06 <frosch123> chester_: interesting, can you name a thing from js from the past 10 years, that other languages borrowed? 20:39:39 <andythenorth> ask doug crockford 20:39:50 <andythenorth> he would probably know 20:41:54 <andythenorth> some people even *like* javascript, which is odd 20:41:56 <andythenorth> but anyway 20:42:55 <andythenorth> hmm 20:43:04 <andythenorth> what's a sensible default for a switch checking current_railtype ? 20:43:06 <chester_> i was not very clear maybe, there are things from other languages, like lisp, which were realized in js before java or c++, i mean anonymous functions and those functional things 20:43:27 <andythenorth> is that the same as a lambda? 20:43:41 <frosch123> sounds like 20:43:56 <chester_> cpp has lambdas? 20:44:05 <andythenorth> chester_: I'm not arguing against you :) 20:44:17 * andythenorth is just dicking around 20:45:17 <frosch123> the wiki article rather suggests js borrowing stuff from python :p 20:45:44 <frosch123> but well, all interpreted languages are the same, once they head for professional usage 20:46:03 <chester_> guido ripped reduce afaik, and wanted to slay map and other things also 20:46:36 <andythenorth> hmm, this bi-mode engine works 20:46:49 <andythenorth> 5000hp on electric, 1250hp otherwise 20:47:04 <andythenorth> rather easy, once I'd figured out how my own framework works :x 20:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i rather like map 20:47:33 <andythenorth> now I probably get stoned with '10 things you wish you had known about railtype compatibilty' :( 20:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so what about multi-power tracksets? 20:47:51 <andythenorth> the railtypes spec makes sense, but the implementations baffle me 20:48:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, I think we'll find out empirically 20:48:18 <andythenorth> people report oddness, I might try and fix it 20:48:31 <andythenorth> otherwise, I have fingers in ears, singing la la la la 20:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wrote about action6/7/9/D operators checking railtype compatibility somewhere 20:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> # lalalala 20:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> # lalalalalala 20:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a weird song 20:49:45 <LordAro> chester_: as of c++11, lambdas are a thing 20:49:47 <andythenorth> now I have it in my head, thanks 20:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well YOU brought it up :p 20:50:04 <andythenorth> indeed 20:50:15 <andythenorth> these steam ships would look better with smoke, eh? 20:50:20 * andythenorth changes topic 20:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of languages had lambda before js did 20:54:24 <Rubidium> thousands of years before js ;) 20:55:22 <chester_> i've seen '((){}[])() is now valid in c++' pic in our cpp department, yes it was added recently 20:57:15 <chester_> or [](){} or ()[]{} 20:57:23 <chester_> something like that 20:58:36 <LordAro> [](){}, methinks 21:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be much less weird than for(;;); 21:00:27 <chester_> this is breakthrough for cpp, when its been for thousands of years in other languages 21:00:56 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you cannot beat '*' 21:01:07 <frosch123> it's by far the worst c construct 21:01:26 <Rubidium> i+++++i 21:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i do believe that is illegal :p 21:02:09 <planetmaker> sure? 21:02:10 <chester_> showd give 2*i + 1 21:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (and even if it werent, it would be undefined behaviour) 21:02:19 <frosch123> planetmaker: not an lvalue 21:02:20 <LordAro> int i = 0; i = i+++++i; 21:02:26 <chester_> (i++) + (++i) 21:02:34 *** DanMacK [~d83be170@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:02:46 <DanMacK> Hey all 21:02:48 <andythenorth> ohai DanMacK 21:02:54 <frosch123> chester_: no, the lexer is greedy 21:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> chester_: it could be 0+1 or 1+1 or 0+2 21:03:19 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, it's a compile error, "++ expected lvalue" 21:03:26 <LordAro> "lvalue required as increment operand" 21:03:28 <LordAro> yup :) 21:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes 21:03:38 <planetmaker> frosch123, but is it a compiler thing or a language thing? 21:04:23 * Rubidium wonders whether the majority of C is actually undefined behaviour ;) 21:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> chester_: even with the parentheses, it's undefined behaviour, since there are two assingments without a sequence point 21:05:19 <glx> and + operator argument evaluation order is implementation dependant IIRC 21:05:26 <frosch123> planetmaker: without the parantheses it is a language thing, with them it is a compiler thing 21:05:38 <planetmaker> :-) 21:06:04 <chester_> would i++ + ++i work? js eats it 21:06:09 <frosch123> hmm, maybe eddi was also in my cert training course 21:06:19 <frosch123> chester_: what are the sequence points of js? 21:06:34 <LordAro> chester_: the fact that js eats it is meaningless - i'm sure php eats it too :p 21:06:38 <frosch123> in any case: it is bad style 21:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i did attend a language lecture a few years ago 21:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: operator evaluation order has actually nothing to do with assignment evaluation order 21:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i++ just means "increment i at some point after you evaluated this operator, and before the next sequence point" 21:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so it could be "evaluate the left operand" (=>0), "assign the right ++" (=>i=1), "evaluate the right operand" (=>1), "assign the left ++" (=>i=1) 21:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> result of the operation would be 1 21:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> err, the last one should be (=>i=2) 21:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause> or it could be "evaluate the left operand" (=>0), "assign the left ++" (=>i=1), "assign the right ++" (=>i=2), "evaluate the right operand" (=>2) 21:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> result of the operation would be 2 21:16:27 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:23 <chester_> never heard of sequence points, Eddi's explanation is clear though, does it mean if its undefined its not valid at all or compiler dependent or what? 21:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it means it's compiler dependent 21:20:39 <planetmaker> the latter 21:21:13 <frosch123> it may also be random, a compiler may compile it differently at various lines 21:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it could be shuffled during optimization 21:21:33 <planetmaker> that's the special form of compiler-dependent :-) 21:21:40 *** tomlane [~textual@0540f378.skybroadband.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:21:59 <frosch123> for certain platforms (maybe ia64), the may even be really random due to parallel execution 21:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ia64 is not really parallel, it's just 4 instructions compressed into one 21:23:26 <frosch123> i thought it was the platform without hardware sheduler, where the compiler optimised for the pipelines 21:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you might be thinking about early mips 21:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> where when executing the second operation the results of the first are not yet in 21:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have data dependencies you have to insert a nop 21:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not a hardware expert 21:25:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6DE73.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:26:10 <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png <- what a chart :p 21:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well sometimes things just come at the wrong time 21:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if it had come 4 years earlier, that figure might have been accurate 21:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but compared to amd64, ia64 was just too incompatible to the older platforms 21:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and compatibility just outweighs the possibly cleaner architecture 21:29:39 <michi_cc> Anything without delay slots after a branch is lame :) Some DSP-like microcontroller architecture have three or even more. 21:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: you mean things where it discards the results of the operations when it discovers that the branch was taken earlier? 21:31:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D7AE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:00 <michi_cc> No, not discard. A jump on a FPU condition on a TI TMS320..something will modify the IP only after the next three instructions were already fetched. And somebody thought it a nice idea to simply not discard anything already fetched. 21:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so you mean they are always executed. yes, that is the "simple" architecture 21:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (simple for the hardware, complicated for the compiler) 21:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> how many instructions are fetched depends on your pipeline length 21:46:48 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has joined #openttd 21:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> chester_: a sequence point (in c(++)-specs speak is the end of the statement (';') or the comma operator (',') [but not the comma that separates function call arguments] 21:49:03 <frosch123> || and && as well 21:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. i knew i forgot something 21:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd's calculation of the station rating makes heavy use of that 21:51:14 <__ln__> have a look at this disney movie instead, everyone: http://sploid.gizmodo.com/this-awesome-simulated-snow-is-indistinguishable-from-r-1470385490 21:53:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 21:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: now let them make real faces 21:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (without mapping them on a real actor's motions) 21:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> || and && are odd anyway, because it's the only place where it specifies evaluation order 22:01:55 *** DanMacK [~d83be170@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:11:20 <frosch123> night 22:11:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009e91.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:11:41 *** Tulitomaatti [tt@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c15b-226.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:35 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6DE73.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:09 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 22:40:36 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.114.237.132.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 22:45:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:54:37 <andythenorth> good night 22:54:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:06:26 *** Tulitomaatti [tt@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c15b-226.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:09:12 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:13 <Wolf01> 'night 23:31:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:42:23 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 23:45:17 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 23:46:05 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.189] has joined #openttd 23:47:44 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd