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Anywhere.] 06:20:56 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:45:34 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.109.97] has joined #openttd 06:49:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has joined #openttd 06:50:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:57 <Wolf01> hello o/ 06:55:17 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:3cec:b06c:1c6b:29f1] has joined #openttd 07:02:14 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:04:07 *** shirish_ [~quassel@59.88.98.197] has joined #openttd 07:06:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:08:01 *** bugzee [~bugzee@208.114.86.155] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:08:12 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:08:21 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:31 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:11:28 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:11:32 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:16:11 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:17:45 *** bugzee [~bugzee@208.114.86.155] has joined #openttd 07:48:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:03:22 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:37 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 08:07:12 *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:51 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:03 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:00 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:20:17 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:27:03 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:53 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:39:19 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:42:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:47:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01d786.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 08:53:56 <andythenorth> o/ 09:00:40 <frosch123> hai 09:01:55 <andythenorth> partial compiles :P 09:01:57 <andythenorth> and dep checks 09:02:05 <andythenorth> no point going faster if the result is wrong :P 09:03:21 <andythenorth> can I trust the modification date on a dir to be the date of the last modified file? 09:03:26 <andythenorth> assuming no renames 09:03:39 <andythenorth> or is that only OS X? 09:04:47 <frosch123> no, it only changes if you change the directory entry 09:04:52 <frosch123> modifying files does not change it 09:04:59 <andythenorth> urgh 09:05:05 <frosch123> also it is changed by unrelated files 09:05:06 <andythenorth> that means I have to walk every file in the dir :( 09:05:16 <frosch123> 'find' is your friend 09:07:13 <andythenorth> wondering if thereâs any problem with using the python equivalent? 09:07:29 <andythenorth> there will be one in os.[something] 09:08:09 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 09:11:25 <andythenorth> hmm 09:11:40 <andythenorth> try / except is kind of deprecated these days? 09:17:13 <andythenorth> L47-54 Iâm doing something wrong there 09:17:13 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/default/entry/src/render_nml_nfo.py#L45 09:17:17 <andythenorth> it works, but itâs odd 09:18:28 <andythenorth> where are the code police when you need them? 09:18:32 <andythenorth> saturday morning is quiet 09:19:40 * andythenorth removes some if statements 09:22:08 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.197.251] has joined #openttd 09:22:22 *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:40 <Xaroth|Work> 11:11 < andythenorth> try / except is kind of deprecated these days? << why would that be? 09:33:11 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.197.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:50 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 09:35:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:36:29 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 09:40:31 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: donât swallow errors 09:40:45 <andythenorth> itâs usually being used by inexperienced coders who donât then raise on the except 09:48:49 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:3cec:b06c:1c6b:29f1] has quit [Quit: .] 09:49:59 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 09:50:59 <Alberth> hi hi 09:58:38 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.221.235] has joined #openttd 10:10:46 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.221.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:10 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:24 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:24:00 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.221.235] has joined #openttd 10:53:32 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: exceptions should be swallowed where applicable; it'd be a bit harsh if you had to re-raise every ValueError you get after you int(user_input) ... 10:54:18 <andythenorth> my experience is that using try/except as a conditional block causes errors to be swallowed in production 10:54:38 <andythenorth> 10 years ago there was lot of stuff about using try/except for type checking (for example) 10:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that's when you catch more than you actually handle in the except 10:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> then it goes bad 10:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> like all other language features, it can be used in good and bad ways 11:32:17 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:47 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:36:06 * andythenorth needs to fix a bloody auto-replace bug in Iron Horse 11:36:08 <andythenorth> :| 11:38:35 <andythenorth> some vehicle types replace fine 11:38:36 <andythenorth> others don't 11:38:40 <andythenorth> just refuse 11:39:45 <andythenorth> also for some reason passenger cars can be replaced by refrigerated cars :P 11:42:27 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:48 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:31 <andythenorth> default cargo PASS on lead unit of articulated consist :P 11:43:35 <andythenorth> shenanigans 11:46:01 <peter1138> clearly we need cargo ANDY 11:46:48 <andythenorth> ho ho ho 11:49:04 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:04:59 <andythenorth> bloody caboose wagons 12:05:07 <andythenorth> I need them to be auto-replaceable 12:05:11 <andythenorth> but they have zero capacity 12:05:15 <andythenorth> itâs a PITA :) 12:09:02 <Alberth> perhaps this issue? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1126246#p1126246 12:09:29 <andythenorth> nah :) 12:09:34 <Alberth> kk 12:09:40 <andythenorth> itâs the infamous frosch123 cargo refit diagram 12:09:50 <andythenorth> auto-replace will only work if thereâs a valid refit 12:10:00 <andythenorth> and ther refit is determined by capacity + refittability + ??? 12:10:06 <andythenorth> sacrificing chickens afaict 12:10:08 <NGC3982> You can be infamous. 12:10:42 <andythenorth> afaict itâs impossible to make a train wagon which is replaceable by ${any other train in the game} 12:12:55 <andythenorth> hmm 12:13:04 <andythenorth> it does work if the caboose is refitted first to appropriate cargo 12:13:11 <andythenorth> so to replace with tanker, first refit oil 12:13:13 <andythenorth> etc 12:13:30 <andythenorth> meh 12:15:06 <andythenorth> if we had consist management, I could ignore this :D 12:16:32 <andythenorth> hmm 12:16:37 <andythenorth> or I just ship the fix I found :P 12:17:31 *** tommylommykins [~t@ks362631.kimsufi.com] has left #openttd [] 12:18:06 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:20 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:31:28 <andythenorth> bah not a fix 12:31:30 <andythenorth> boring 12:38:09 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 13:12:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has joined #openttd 13:16:30 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.221.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're trying to make autoreplace do something it never was intended to do. why do that? 13:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> autoreplace only ever was meant to replace a wagon with the same kind of wagon. so you can only make cabooses be replaced by other cabooses 13:29:51 <andythenorth> Iâm trying to do it because otherwise replacing cabooses is a PITA 13:29:59 <andythenorth> maybe cabooses are a PITA full stop 13:31:33 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE 13:32:54 <Alberth> it's bad enough that you need an engine that cannot haul coal :p 13:33:11 <Alberth> such a waste of 1/2 a tile :) 13:41:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:44 <peter1138> Just make everything refittable to anything. 13:55:01 <FLHerne> Just have one vehicle, that runs on all tracks, refits to every cargo, and increases max speed/power/capacity based on date :P 13:56:20 <andythenorth> NUTS 13:56:22 <andythenorth> ! 13:56:38 <andythenorth> also 13:56:44 <andythenorth> is livery over-ride a thing, and is it in nml? 13:56:46 <andythenorth> or is it bollocks? 13:56:51 <andythenorth> I could implement my own version 13:59:39 <V453000> it is there but I dont think it is useful for anything except maybe some hack with powered wagons 13:59:49 <V453000> you can just change sprites based on vehicle_type_id with a switch 14:02:40 <andythenorth> yair 14:04:42 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.199.92] has joined #openttd 14:06:06 <V453000> btw FUCK YES, I managed to cut my sprites in after effects :> 14:06:16 <V453000> no more NML cutting bullshit and overlapping 14:07:39 <V453000> just needed photoshop masks for precision :> 14:13:01 *** kero_ [~keikoz@78.250.199.92] has joined #openttd 14:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> aw man, it's not enough anymore that Alberth and V453000 have the same colour and same length, now they're also saying the same kind of stuff... 14:14:33 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.199.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:33 <V453000> wat 14:14:36 <Alberth> wta 14:15:01 <Alberth> V doesn't do 1/2 tiles 14:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that part should have made me suspicious :p 14:15:43 <V453000> I just started doing them Alberth :| 14:15:50 <Alberth> :D 14:16:26 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/CUT_SCHEME_X.png 1,0 and 0,1 :P 14:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, colour trumps everything. length i hardly notice 14:18:45 <Alberth> ha yes, I wondered about the left of 2,0, but that wouldn't work of course 14:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks weird, but i guess it has some kind of logic behind it 14:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> may have strange effects during construction stages 14:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> as each industrytile may be in a different stage 14:21:46 <V453000> it has a lot of logic, otherwise you would either get overlaps (which I do now and it costs 2x more space) ... or you would have to not define some things 14:21:48 <V453000> ha 14:21:51 <V453000> :D :) 14:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but lots of other ways of cutting things would get you this effect 14:24:07 <V453000> mhm :) well I hope this way I chose will be good :P 14:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> for example doing 1,0 and 2,0 the same way as 3,0 14:24:48 <V453000> hm yeah that is a possibility 14:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> (that would also easily scale further) 14:25:09 <V453000> yeah I guess that is a good suggestion :) 14:26:11 <V453000> going to do that 14:29:29 <frosch123> hmm, spam getting better again :) 14:40:18 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if anything is pushing the development of artificial intelligence, it's spam :p 14:51:41 <andythenorth> new Iron Horse 14:51:42 <andythenorth> spam that 14:51:48 <andythenorth> alpha-6 now on bannaanananananns 14:53:31 <V453000> why do you call it alpha when you are going to abandon it before 1.0 anyway? :P 14:53:34 <V453000> :D cruel 14:54:45 <andythenorth> shouldnât happen to a horse 14:55:01 <andythenorth> take it out and shoot it :P 14:58:50 <V453000> :D 14:58:56 <V453000> ok so no dying announcements 14:59:02 <V453000> now Horsie goes to the salam 14:59:11 <V453000> way to go andythenorth 15:03:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> horse-salami? 15:04:36 <andythenorth> itâs very unfair, the amount I get trolled 15:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to all the horse-lasagna anyway? 15:04:39 * andythenorth never trolls anyone 15:05:10 <V453000> LOL 15:05:28 <andythenorth> LOLWUT 15:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> is "lolwut" any kind of related to "tollwut"? 15:07:22 <andythenorth> probably 15:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (tollwut = rabies) 15:07:30 <V453000> I WIN BITCHES :D https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/industry_3X_f0000.png 15:07:37 <V453000> 404 probably 15:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 15:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> BICHES! 15:07:58 * andythenorth BEACHES! 15:08:20 * andythenorth is bored of typing âmake COMPILE_FASTER=Trueâ 15:08:24 <andythenorth> maybe Iâll shorten it :P 15:08:46 <SpComb> make CC=distcc 15:08:57 <SpComb> make CC=distcc -j 9001 15:09:19 <andythenorth> yeah, that assumes I did things properly 15:09:22 <V453000> LOL 15:09:28 <andythenorth> âat least 9,000 threads" 15:09:34 <V453000> shouldnt make better be like default? :P 15:09:37 <andythenorth> no 15:09:44 <andythenorth> the dependency check is totally untrustworthy 15:10:02 <andythenorth> you should only use âfasterâ when you know itâs safe 15:10:06 <andythenorth> itâs great, this system of mine 15:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "export COMPILE_FASTER=True" 15:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it's over 9000 15:13:02 <andythenorth> and then just flip it when I want to compile better? 15:13:16 <andythenorth> tbh a make clean has the same effect of forcing full compile 15:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> compile from a different terminal 15:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> force a full compile with "make -B" 15:14:22 <andythenorth> -B is ? 15:14:34 <andythenorth> I googled it but just got spurious results 15:15:28 <frosch123> man make 15:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't google for "-B" 15:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it means "all results that do not contain B" 15:19:48 <frosch123> since when does google care about what you type exactly? 15:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, i generally type "m[PgUp]" to get the last parameters i typed 15:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: in all likelyhood, it just ignores the bit because it's too short 15:26:47 <Alberth> !m using the history :) 15:27:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:31:37 <frosch123> ! always scares me 15:31:50 <frosch123> sometimes you get something unexpected :) 15:38:13 <peter1138> event not found 15:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never figured out what ! does in bash 15:43:45 <planetmaker> hi ho 15:45:58 <Alberth> type 'history', !<prefix> searches back in the list, and executes the first matching line 15:46:19 <Alberth> hi hi 15:47:32 <Alberth> the scary part is that by default bash saves the history, so if your first command is a !, it executes a line from the previous session 15:48:24 <Alberth> saving that didn't strike me as a sane idea, so I disabled that very quickly :) 15:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i always save history. sometimes i wonder "how did you do this half a year ago?" 15:51:05 <Alberth> I make "./mk" scripts, or a Makefile to keep that information 15:51:11 *** Jinassi [~Jinassi@0001ec72.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 15:51:17 <planetmaker> would it make sense to start a library of free textures? Like licensed CC-BY-SA or GPL v2+ (whatever you like)? 15:51:17 <Alberth> also saves typing the command each time :) 15:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: sometimes i didn't know half a year ago that i would need this again 15:51:42 <Alberth> planetmaker: wouldn't that exist already? 15:51:54 <peter1138> I tend to just use ^R to redo something 15:52:15 <planetmaker> partially it sure exist 15:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm pretty sure i have seen stuff like "cargo graphics" library 15:53:41 <planetmaker> I've seen many libraries. Most I've seen have no free licenses 15:53:46 <planetmaker> but something weired usually 15:53:55 <planetmaker> like cgtextures 15:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no particular interest in this stuff currently, anyway 15:55:45 *** kero_ [~keikoz@78.250.199.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:03:02 *** bugzee [~bugzee@208.114.86.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:10:59 *** Yotson [~Yotson@92.66.58.22] has joined #openttd 16:18:15 <andythenorth> so how do I call CPP on a bunch of files? :P 16:19:54 <frosch123> %.nml: %.pnml\n\t${CPP} -E -o $@ $< 16:22:13 <andythenorth> yay 16:22:17 <andythenorth> very obvious :) 16:23:58 <andythenorth> so I have a generated/pnml/ dir full of .pnml 16:24:07 <andythenorth> and I need a generated/nml dir full of .nml 16:24:11 <andythenorth> the .nml dir needs creating 16:24:16 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:48 <frosch123> generated/nml/%.nml: generated/pnml/%.pnml .... 16:24:48 <andythenorth> do I do this in Makefile, or Makefile.in? 16:25:30 <frosch123> i didn't write your makefiles :) 16:25:35 <andythenorth> I had better go read the Makefile tutorial again 16:25:42 <andythenorth> I just donât get it 16:29:07 <peter1138> phew, so hot... 16:29:30 <juzza1> if you are using make-nml, it has the same effect in Makefile and Makefile.in 16:29:37 <juzza1> as the main Makefile just includes Makefile.in 16:29:53 <andythenorth> I have some old outdated and non-supported Makefile 16:30:01 <planetmaker> hot... yes... 35+°C here 16:30:12 <andythenorth> :o 16:30:39 <planetmaker> bit cooler inside, luckily 16:33:29 <peter1138> Merely 24°C here, apparently. Feels scorching though. 16:34:52 <andythenorth> scorchio 16:35:01 <andythenorth> humidity 16:35:08 * andythenorth is in Wales, Wales is hot 16:35:25 <andythenorth> if I do this FIRS compile in python, thatâs wrong, yes? 16:38:49 <andythenorth> what does this mean? 16:38:50 <andythenorth> nml: $(GENERATE_PNML) 16:38:50 <andythenorth> $(_E) "[CPP] $(NML_FILE)" 16:38:51 <andythenorth> $(_V) $(CC) -D REPO_REVISION=$(NEWGRF_VERSION) $(CC_FLAGS) -o $(NML_FILE) $(MAIN_SRC_FILE) 16:42:09 <frosch123> _E is most likely a variable for "echo" 16:42:15 <frosch123> i.e. spam 16:42:16 <planetmaker> target nml depends on target GENERATE_PNML 16:42:25 <frosch123> "_V" is most likely a variable for "verbose output" 16:42:28 <planetmaker> _E is an alias for echo 16:42:31 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:34 <planetmaker> _V for verbose 16:42:39 <planetmaker> thus: 16:42:50 <planetmaker> echo "cpp $NML_FILE" 16:43:19 <planetmaker> CC -D REPO_REVISION=... $CC_FLAGS -o $NML_FILE $MAIN_SRC_FILE 16:43:27 <planetmaker> where $NML_FILE is firs.nml 16:43:34 <planetmaker> MAIN_SRC_FILE is firs.pnml 16:43:58 <planetmaker> CC_FLAGS something defined above. Like -E --no-c-headers 16:44:00 <planetmaker> or similar 16:44:48 <andythenorth> and this? 16:44:49 <andythenorth> GENERATE_PNML ?= pnml 16:45:05 <planetmaker> ignore the ? 16:45:19 <planetmaker> (?= means: define only if not yet defined) 16:48:52 <planetmaker> basically: nml: $(GENERATE_PNML) means: generate the nml (as defined below) after you generated the pnml 16:49:02 <andythenorth> so that is what I want to change 16:49:06 <planetmaker> and the pnml step is what you fill in with your python scripts 16:49:22 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.200.34] has joined #openttd 16:49:56 <andythenorth> so afaict, currently the compile depends on firs.pnml 16:50:06 <andythenorth> which then #includes everything else 16:50:27 <andythenorth> instead it needs to call cpp for each pnml file, producing an nml file 16:51:08 <andythenorth> then nmlc needs to render each nml file to nfo 16:51:20 <andythenorth> then the nfo needs concatenating and junk splitting out 16:51:30 <andythenorth> then nforenum and grfcodec need calling 16:53:12 <planetmaker> easiest is: re-define $GENERATE_NML and $GENERATE_PNML to your own targets. And there define what needs doing 16:53:22 <planetmaker> and possibly also $GENERATE_GRF as your own 16:53:52 <planetmaker> then you can keep Makefile unchanged basically (and its build rules will be ignored and the one from Makefile.in will be used 16:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if at all possible, only modify Makefile.in. should the makefile ever be updated, it causes the least conflicts 16:56:43 <andythenorth> so how is a -include handled? 16:56:54 <andythenorth> does it just over-write any existing variable definitions, etc 16:56:54 <andythenorth> ? 16:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "-" says "ignore if not exists" 16:57:19 <andythenorth> ok, so itâs like every other include system in the world :P 16:57:27 <planetmaker> yes, as it's included after Makefile's definitions. Also thus: the $GENERATE_XXX targets. There's XXX=PNML, NML, LANG, GRF iirc. 16:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> some variables get added to, instead of overwritten 16:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you usually see that with "XXX_FLAGS" 16:58:27 <andythenorth> so I canât find the rules for $GENERATE_NML 16:58:39 <andythenorth> it just resolves to nml 16:59:08 <andythenorth> oh that depends on pnml 16:59:11 <andythenorth> which has no rules 16:59:17 <planetmaker> yeah 16:59:24 <planetmaker> but nml has rules 16:59:35 <andythenorth> oh GENERATE_PNML rules are in Makefile.n 16:59:41 <andythenorth> .in * 16:59:42 <planetmaker> that's your own rules 16:59:48 <planetmaker> specific for firs 16:59:55 <andythenorth> but that uses the the bizarre .PHONY thing 16:59:59 <planetmaker> I added generate_pnml only for you :P 17:00:03 <andythenorth> he :) 17:00:06 <planetmaker> phony means 'is no real file' 17:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: when something has no rules, it's assumed to be a file existing on the repo 17:00:28 <andythenorth> ok 17:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't use .PHONY 17:01:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile.in 17:01:32 <andythenorth> maybe Iâm going about this wrong 17:02:08 <Alberth> unless you use autotools, the filename looks wrong :p 17:02:16 <andythenorth> currently the python stuff renders all industries in one pass 17:02:25 <andythenorth> and header stuff 17:02:35 <andythenorth> it needs to render just a single .pnml file for each call 17:02:41 <andythenorth> how do I pass it the filename? 17:02:52 <andythenorth> if I clean up the existing python, maybe I learn enough make 17:03:11 <Alberth> sys.argv gives the provided command arguments 17:03:21 <andythenorth> oh I use that already :) 17:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you should probably just change that to "firs.pnml" 17:03:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: letâs try that.... 17:03:46 <Alberth> there are a few libraries for parsing sys.argv 17:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> as that is (one of) the files you create in that recipe 17:03:59 * andythenorth has to do something other than stare at $ % ? 17:04:33 <Alberth> cook me some dinner? 17:05:01 <andythenorth> long distance? 17:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> sudo cook me some dinner! 17:05:19 <andythenorth> http://www.justeat.nl ? 17:05:31 <andythenorth> http://www.just-eat.com 17:07:25 <andythenorth> hmm 17:07:44 <Alberth> $% The target member name, when the target is an archive member ... <-- looks like the wrong one 17:07:47 <andythenorth> GENERATE_PNML doesnât get called http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3514/ 17:08:16 <Alberth> $@ is a better target 17:08:17 <andythenorth> makefile tries to straight away call firs.nml 17:08:30 <andythenorth> so no pnml exists 17:08:43 <Alberth> or no rule to build it 17:09:14 <andythenorth> how will make find it on disk? 17:09:18 <andythenorth> it doesnât exist yet 17:09:22 * andythenorth remains confused :P 17:11:22 <andythenorth> do I have to give the path to firs.pnml? 17:11:50 <andythenorth> oh I made it work maybe :O 17:11:55 <andythenorth> order of rules is significant? 17:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> # eis eis tonne 17:12:49 <Alberth> not really, except the first one, as that is the default target 17:13:05 <andythenorth> hrm 17:13:10 <andythenorth> this is copying generated/pnml/firs.pnml to firs.pnml 17:13:13 <andythenorth> looks ugly 17:13:28 * andythenorth waits 3 minutes to see if make completes 17:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if firs.nml doesn't first call firs.pnml, then you forgot the dependency 17:14:04 <andythenorth> one tiny step at a time :( 17:14:08 <andythenorth> letâs see if it worked 17:14:25 <andythenorth> so slow 17:14:37 *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has joined #openttd 17:16:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: better? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/35038ae89eb9/diff/Makefile.in 17:16:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth, pnml must not depend on firs.pnml 17:16:47 <andythenorth> oh 17:16:54 <planetmaker> it *generates* firs.pnml 17:16:57 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:08 <planetmaker> but as-is, that step is simply skipped if firs.pnml exists 17:17:11 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:17:24 <planetmaker> a result never must depend on what it generates 17:17:36 <andythenorth> oh 17:17:44 <andythenorth> I thought Iâd made progress :P 17:18:20 <planetmaker> pnml does not have any dependencies. unless you want to list all your source files 17:18:57 <andythenorth> yeah, Iâve no idea how to do that 17:19:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the generator script should generate these dependencies 17:19:02 <andythenorth> but it needs doing 17:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> write them into firs.src.dep 17:19:48 * andythenorth is confused why the last commit works at all 17:19:50 <andythenorth> itâs backwards 17:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, firs.pnml should be the target, not the dependency 17:20:12 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:20:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:20:13 <planetmaker> it worked on CF as firs.pnml did not exist (yet) 17:20:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: firs.pnml: pnml 17:20:28 <andythenorth> ? 17:20:33 <planetmaker> no... 17:20:52 <Alberth> "pnml" is a source file? 17:21:00 <andythenorth> target? 17:21:02 <planetmaker> pnml is a pseudo-rule. you should not use pnml at all 17:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> firs.pnml: $(ALL_GENERATOR_PY_FILES) 17:21:14 <Alberth> andythenorth: target: source-list 17:21:14 <planetmaker> you should redefine $GENERATE_PNML to something you like 17:21:26 <planetmaker> GENERATE_PNML = my_pnml_generateor 17:21:35 <planetmaker> my_pnml_generator: firs.pnml 17:21:51 <Alberth> planetmaker: $(GENERATE_PNML) 17:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's basically the opposite of what i previously said 17:22:02 <andythenorth> isnât that ass backwards? 17:22:12 <planetmaker> firs.pnml:\n\tcall to python script which generates it 17:22:18 <andythenorth> I am reading a tutorial that says outut_file: input_file 17:22:23 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:22:28 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, maybe it is. Doesn't make it wrong what I say. But yours ;) 17:22:46 <planetmaker> though there are many paths to get it going 17:22:48 <andythenorth> so the python script call is already in the rules 17:22:56 <andythenorth> how do I make it instead the input file? 17:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: PHONY targets are bad, because make cannot figure out whether it should skip them. 17:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just add it behind the : as dependency. leave the command in the recipe like it is 17:23:51 <andythenorth> ? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3515/ 17:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> no 17:24:34 <planetmaker> you shouldn't re-define ${GENERATE_PNML} 17:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> leave all lines in the recipe intact 17:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> just ADD things 17:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> do not MOVE things 17:25:11 <andythenorth> hrm 17:25:17 <planetmaker> revert Makefile 17:25:22 <planetmaker> in Makefile.in: 17:25:27 <andythenorth> itâs surprising how many of these bad things actually work :P 17:25:37 <planetmaker> GENERATE_NML = my_nml 17:25:40 <andythenorth> another totally wrong version just compiled the pnml 17:25:51 <planetmaker> my_nml: ... 17:25:57 <planetmaker> and start from there to add your own stuff 17:26:18 <planetmaker> and / or define a new GENERATE_PNML, too 17:26:46 <andythenorth> this apparently works http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3516/ 17:27:06 <andythenorth> but substituting GENERATE_PNML for pnml does not 17:27:51 <planetmaker> I wonder that it works. Might be random 17:27:54 <andythenorth> Makefile is unchanged btw 17:27:58 <planetmaker> GENERATE_PNML = my_pnml 17:28:00 <andythenorth> Iâm only doing Makefile.in 17:28:05 <planetmaker> my_pnml: scripts/preprocess.py 17:28:07 <planetmaker> ... 17:28:30 <planetmaker> then I would expect it to work and not bork for double declaration :) 17:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: again. i think phony targets are to be avoided 17:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: only use targets that are real files 17:28:53 <planetmaker> ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam. 17:28:58 <andythenorth> this works http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3517/ 17:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> gesundeit 17:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: now i would replace all occurances of my_pnml with firs.pnml 17:30:08 <planetmaker> and eddi wants s/my_pnml/firs.pnml/ - which might also work. But imho doesn't offer much gain 17:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it does. it allows make to figure out "this hasn't been changed. skip it" 17:30:37 <andythenorth> I love it when we differ :) 17:30:40 <andythenorth> makes learning much easier 17:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't do that with a phony target, because there is no timestamp. so phony targets are always forced to execute 17:32:48 <andythenorth> ok so currently I have my own dep checks in python that might negate that issue 17:32:51 <andythenorth> but they should get rmed 17:33:22 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> unrelated: "$(_V)-rm -rf $(NML_FILE)a" <-- what does that do? 17:35:00 <andythenorth> can I stop mv-ing firs.pnml to repo root? 17:35:06 <andythenorth> and just provide the proper path to it instead? 17:35:40 <andythenorth> I donât actually want it at all in long-term, but one change at a time 17:36:18 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:30 *** Yotson [~Yotson@92.66.58.22] has quit [Quit: .] 17:37:50 *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.200.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:16 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> MAIN_SRC_FILE := $(BASE_FILENAME).pnml <-- probably should become generated/firs.pnml 17:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but that may cause trouble further down 17:39:08 <andythenorth> can I use that as the dep against the GENERATE_PNML target? 17:39:25 <andythenorth> although there will eventually be no MAIN_SRC_FILE 17:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it must pass this pathname to nmlc and stuff 17:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> $(_V) $(CC) -D REPO_REVISION=$(NEWGRF_VERSION) $(CC_FLAGS) -o $(NML_FILE) $(MAIN_SRC_FILE) 17:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> this line creates firs.nml from firs.pnml 17:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you want this to create firs.nml from generated/firs.pnml 17:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you also want generated/firs.nml 17:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then adjust NML_FILE also 17:41:28 <andythenorth> ok 17:41:37 <andythenorth> I want to end up with generated/firs.nfo 17:41:41 <andythenorth> but thatâs a few steps away 17:43:11 <andythenorth> ¿ so I add a target for firs.nml depending on generated/pnml/firs.pnml 17:44:20 <planetmaker> yes 17:45:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26696 trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt (2014-07-19 17:45:13 UTC) 17:45:21 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:22 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 11 changes by nglekhoi 17:47:15 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3225 17:47:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:21 <andythenorth> bad wifi 17:51:16 *** Guest3225 [~Andy@host86-141-169-95.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:00 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 18:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try adding the lines "MAIN_SRC_FILE:=generated/firs.pnml" and "NML_FILE := generated/firs.nml" to Makefile.in 18:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> see what it does 18:08:21 * andythenorth tries 18:09:13 <andythenorth> oops, /me forgets that make doesnât know about all the deps 18:12:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: seems to work 18:12:34 <andythenorth> might break some other paths 18:12:39 <andythenorth> waiting for nmlc :P 18:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... how do i prevent these stupid dogs to fall into the lake and get stuck under a waterlily 18:15:28 <Alberth> drink the lake :p 18:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> lake is an infinite water source. can't empty it with buckets 18:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i need the water to grow crops 18:18:20 <Alberth> make the dogs want to go elsewhere 18:18:56 <Alberth> take out the water lily? 18:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i can make the dogs "sit", but they will still be pushed around when i walk past them 18:24:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: better? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3520/ 18:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that last line shouldn't be needed 18:26:26 <andythenorth> which last? 18:26:38 <andythenorth> firs.nml? 18:26:56 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-188-234.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:14 <Afdal> Would anyone happen to know how the custom sea level %s correlate to the other sea level settings? 18:27:50 <andythenorth> ok I removed firs.nml: generated/pnml/firs.pnml 18:27:53 <andythenorth> still works 18:29:07 <andythenorth> now I want to remove the dependency on firs.pnml, and process each pnml file individually with cpp 18:29:17 <andythenorth> so it will be a % thingy? 18:32:55 <Afdal> like what % is Medium 18:32:59 <Afdal> what % is Low... 18:33:19 <Alberth> hmm, should be in the source, shouldn't it? 18:33:45 <frosch123> i thought it said in parentheses 18:34:21 *** MTsPony1 [~marctraid@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 18:34:22 *** MTsPony1 is now known as MTsPony 18:34:38 <frosch123> @calc 400/1024 18:34:38 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.390625 18:34:43 <frosch123> @calc 250/1024 18:34:43 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.244140625 18:34:47 <frosch123> @calc 80/1024 18:34:47 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.078125 18:34:48 <frosch123> @calc 20/1024 18:34:48 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.01953125 18:35:02 <frosch123> so, 2%, 8%, 24% and 39% :) 18:35:24 *** MTsPony_zzz [~marctraid@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:06 <Afdal> those are for sea level? 18:36:17 <Afdal> very low to high? 18:36:29 <frosch123> yes, i hope there are 4 things to choose :) 18:36:39 <Afdal> Thanks a bunch, very helpful 18:37:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:47 * andythenorth looks at CETS makefile.in 18:39:48 <Alberth> frosch123: no percentages next to the text afaik 18:39:51 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:46:48 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3521/ 18:46:58 <andythenorth> so I expected "[GENERATE ONML]" to be echoed 18:47:02 <andythenorth> it doesnât? 18:52:15 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.160] has joined #openttd 18:52:34 <planetmaker> missing " " 18:52:53 <planetmaker> for the PNML hm 18:53:18 <Alberth> based on what? line 13 is just nonsense 18:53:39 <Alberth> what is %.onml supposed to do? 18:53:49 <planetmaker> oO 18:54:19 <Alberth> %<foo> can only be used for making a dependency rule %.o: %.cpp 18:54:52 <Alberth> why do you think it should reach that file? 18:55:01 <Alberth> *line 18:55:29 <andythenorth> this is closer http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3522/ 18:55:50 <andythenorth> I donât know if itâs correct, but it actually does what I expect 18:56:17 <planetmaker> he... "Please add new cases to slovak language settings: 18:56:17 <planetmaker> g (already in system), d, a, l, i " 18:56:23 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-188-234.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has left #openttd [] 18:56:53 <Alberth> what is .onml relative to .pnml? 18:57:30 <Alberth> line 21 sees it as target to build, while line 10 sees it as source 19:11:35 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:30:30 <andythenorth> hmm 19:30:46 <andythenorth> mkdir is complaining that the dir already exists 19:31:40 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:55 <andythenorth> fixed 19:34:17 <frosch123> "-p" 19:34:25 <andythenorth> new problem 19:34:25 <andythenorth> make: *** No rule to make target `%.onml', needed by `nml'. Stop. 19:34:30 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3523/ 19:35:29 <andythenorth> %.onml is a target 19:35:36 <andythenorth> I donât see what Iâve done wrong 19:35:38 <frosch123> you can use % only in patterns 19:35:51 <frosch123> what is GENERATE_PNML ? 19:36:10 <frosch123> shall it be a list of files or something? 19:38:03 <andythenorth> I donât know 19:38:09 <andythenorth> I donât understand it tbh 19:38:18 <andythenorth> Iâm trying to copy from CETS 19:38:31 <andythenorth> but one step at a time, so I can learn something 19:39:02 <andythenorth> make is like nothing Iâve seen before, and Iâve been coding since I was 6 19:39:05 <andythenorth> which is 30 years :( 19:39:41 <andythenorth> do I have to use make to call cpp? 19:41:45 <planetmaker> $GENERATE_PNML is the name of the target which generates the pnml file(s) 19:42:13 <planetmaker> $GENERATE_NML is the name of the target which generates the nml file from the main pnml file 19:42:27 <planetmaker> $GENERATE_GRF is the name of the target which generates the grf file from the nml file 19:42:44 <andythenorth> I am going to revert this 19:43:03 <andythenorth> copying from CETS is a bad idea if I donât understand what Iâm pasting 19:43:08 <andythenorth> the last commit at least works ok 19:43:52 <andythenorth> I canât see how to call cpp on all the .pnml files 19:43:59 <andythenorth> can I write a python script to do it? 19:44:16 <planetmaker> you can do whatever works 19:44:26 <planetmaker> the CF will call make; make bundle; make bundle_src 19:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if your python scripts outputs a deps file, you need a "%.pnml: %.nml" rule 19:44:40 * andythenorth googles for how to invoke CPP 19:44:53 <andythenorth> is a deps file a standard format? 19:45:07 <planetmaker> sorry. make; make bundle_zip; make bundle_src 19:45:17 <andythenorth> ta 19:45:21 <planetmaker> a deps file is like a makefile 19:45:27 <planetmaker> target: dependency 19:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> deps file has the format: "main_file: other_file(s)" 19:45:31 <planetmaker> target: dependency2 19:45:38 <planetmaker> target2: dependency3 19:45:42 <planetmaker> target2: dependency4 19:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> main file will be firs.pnml 19:45:48 <planetmaker> target3: dependency 19:45:49 <planetmaker> etc 19:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and other files all other autogenerated files 19:46:16 <andythenorth> hmm cpp seems to call clang 19:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on which compiler you installed 19:46:35 <andythenorth> clang by default here 19:47:31 <andythenorth> I canât figure out how to concatenate the nml files without python 19:47:41 <andythenorth> I guess shell can do that for me 19:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> cat file1 file2 file3 > file 19:47:58 <andythenorth> ok 19:48:05 <andythenorth> I canât use firs.pnml any more for this 19:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i used onml 19:48:27 <andythenorth> it will get processed in an order I canât control and might fail 19:48:42 <andythenorth> I couldnât see how to make onml a dependency 19:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> each processing step gets a new file extension 19:48:56 <andythenorth> yes, I liked that 19:49:02 <andythenorth> it made 100% sense 19:49:15 <andythenorth> it fits with the make tutorial I read as well about .o files and such 19:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can only use "%" in a dependency, if the target also contains "%" 19:50:11 *** Aphid [~Aphid@5351C956.cm-6-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so "nml: %.onml" won't work, because "nml" doesn't contain a "%" 19:50:36 <andythenorth> ok 19:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the "%" is replaced by the same file base name by make 19:51:39 <andythenorth> and $@ and $< get the filenames? 19:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:52:57 <Aphid> I have a question. When a script calls 'GSTown::SetGrowthRate() to change a town's growth rate from A to B days/house, and the ticker is currently at C houses, where C <= A, what will the ticker be after the action? E.g. if the rate is changed often, what happens, for example? 19:53:25 <andythenorth> so this puzzles me http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3524/ 19:53:33 <andythenorth> no constant substitution ? 19:53:51 <andythenorth> L9 and L34 are the differences 20:00:22 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:00:39 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 20:01:00 <frosch123> GENERATE_PNML = MAIN_SRC_FILE <- lacks $( ) 20:01:14 <frosch123> MAIN_SRC_FILE is a variable, no value 20:01:46 <andythenorth> so /me is being dumb 20:02:16 <andythenorth> that works 20:06:17 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:32 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:09:37 <Aphid> Huh... apparently the speed is one dph slower than indicated, e.g. ' every 3 days' actually means every 4 days. 20:13:01 <frosch123> town growth? 20:13:09 <frosch123> yes, i think there is an fs issue about that 20:13:15 <andythenorth> why is generated/pnml/firs.pnml the MAIN_SRC_FILE 20:13:19 <andythenorth> why isnât it firs.nml? 20:13:55 <andythenorth> the pnml is just an intermediate 20:14:05 <andythenorth> it doesnât make any sense for either meaning of src that I understand 20:15:10 <andythenorth> :) 20:16:41 <frosch123> well, it's the same for all languages using $ @ ! and stuff 20:17:21 <frosch123> "understanding them" is equivalent to "being the author" 20:17:36 <frosch123> make, bash, perl, ... :) 20:17:54 <andythenorth> I believe that pm doesnât like this particular makefile anyway 20:18:01 <andythenorth> I wonder if Iâm starting from totally the wrong place 20:18:09 <andythenorth> certainly this isnât time saving 20:18:14 <andythenorth> and Iâm not learning much :) 20:24:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth, main_src_file is what the *source* has (hence the name). 20:24:16 <planetmaker> the nml file is not part of the source 20:24:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what I do think is: if you want to understand makefile, disregard mine. Write a small one which works for you 20:25:07 <planetmaker> without all the boilerplate of the 'standard' newgrf makefile 20:25:14 <andythenorth> I was wondering about that 20:25:40 <planetmaker> as said, there's three targets which only need to work: 20:25:42 <planetmaker> make 20:25:52 <planetmaker> (which will build the grf) 20:25:59 <planetmaker> it's the first target in the makefile defined 20:26:34 <planetmaker> bundle_zip. That's expected to create a tar.zip. When unzipped it should be usable by openttd 20:26:53 <planetmaker> bundle_src. That's supposed to create a source archive from which I can build the grf 20:27:36 <planetmaker> but you can ignore that all for getting to know how it works 20:28:32 <andythenorth> so (before I quit and go to sleep :P ) - firs.pnml is no source either 20:28:37 <andythenorth> so perhaps I need to fix that? 20:32:12 <andythenorth> that is quite separate to understanding the makefile :) 20:32:12 <andythenorth> problem with project structure 20:38:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:38:47 <planetmaker> well, in your case it's not. indeed 20:39:35 <planetmaker> but the naming MAIN_SRC_FILE is not that important. It's just a name for the pnml file 20:39:42 <planetmaker> could have called it like that 20:39:51 <planetmaker> MAIN_PNML_FILE 20:40:02 <planetmaker> that's how it's used 20:40:26 <andythenorth> ok, so that makes sense 20:40:35 <andythenorth> and there wonât be a main pnml file 20:40:54 <andythenorth> there will be a main nfo file I guess 20:41:37 <andythenorth> oh maybe I just figured it out from that 20:41:46 <andythenorth> if thereâs a main nfo file, and everything else is deps.... 20:41:56 <andythenorth> it just chains back 20:42:01 <andythenorth> target: deps /n rules 20:42:58 <planetmaker> yeah 20:43:04 <planetmaker> and that works nicely recursively 20:43:10 <andythenorth> I am biting off quite a lot in one go with this 20:43:14 <planetmaker> the recursion is the key to makefiles :) 20:43:20 <Aphid> The real thing i wanted to know about town growing is just what happens to the internal 'house ticker', when a script overrides the speed. it works by keeping an internal integer variable (I think it's 16bit) and setting it to your dph to start with. This value is decremented every day. When it is at zero (and decrement would overflow it), it is instead set back to the dph value. 20:43:23 <andythenorth> maybe I write the compile in python, and then convert to make 20:44:01 <andythenorth> the only reason I didnât do a python compile was that I thought I needed make for cpp 20:44:08 <andythenorth> but cpp is just a program :P 20:44:13 <planetmaker> yup :) 20:44:33 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:14 <Aphid> Now if I say set the dph to 10,000 (one house per 30 years), wait 15 years (counter is now at 5,000), and then set the counter to dph to 100, what happens exactly? 20:47:25 <frosch123> Aphid: when changing the speed the relative "growth progress" is preserved 20:47:42 <frosch123> if it was at 2000/5000 and you set the speed to 500, it will go to 200/500 20:47:46 <andythenorth> hrm 20:48:08 <andythenorth> cpp input.file > output.file 20:48:14 <frosch123> "-E" 20:48:27 <andythenorth> can I pipe a string to cpp somehow? 20:48:31 <frosch123> also i prefer "-o output.file" instead of ">" 20:49:06 <frosch123> i guess if you skip all files you can also pipe through it 20:49:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header 20:49:34 <planetmaker> ^ CFLAGS 20:49:39 <planetmaker> CC_FLAGS 20:49:40 * andythenorth tries to find -E in cpp manual 20:49:52 <planetmaker> it won't work without the -nostdinc -x c-header 20:49:55 <andythenorth> ok 20:50:05 <planetmaker> at least for gcc >= 4.8 or so 20:50:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:56:02 <andythenorth> cpp -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header generated/pnml/arable_farm.pnml arable.nml 20:56:03 <andythenorth> clang: error: no input files 20:56:28 <andythenorth> doesnât like -x 20:58:03 <andythenorth> clang docs suggest it should work 20:58:38 <TinoDidriksen> If in doubt, ask #llvm 20:59:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you didn't provide output 20:59:15 <planetmaker> clang -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header firs.pnml -o firs.nml 20:59:18 <planetmaker> missing -o 20:59:45 <planetmaker> and arguably the error message is in need of being clearer :) 20:59:50 <andythenorth> hmm 21:00:02 <andythenorth> clang -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header generated/pnml/arable_farm.pnml -o arable.nml 21:00:03 <andythenorth> works 21:00:07 <planetmaker> yup 21:00:09 <andythenorth> cpp -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header generated/pnml/arable_farm.pnml -o arable.nml 21:00:11 <andythenorth> doesn't 21:00:18 <andythenorth> so clangâs support of cpp is defective 21:00:26 <planetmaker> hu? 21:00:33 <planetmaker> both works for me 21:00:41 <planetmaker> whether I use cpp or clang with those arguments 21:00:55 <andythenorth> Apple LLVM version 5.1 (clang-503.0.40) (based on LLVM 3.4svn) 21:01:03 <planetmaker> gcc 4.8.3 and clang 3.4 21:01:11 <andythenorth> cpp âversion and clang âversion return identical for me 21:01:23 <planetmaker> :D 21:01:46 <andythenorth> I think cpp is just an alias 21:01:51 <planetmaker> likely 21:02:00 <planetmaker> it's also when using gcc 21:02:14 <planetmaker> then it's an alias for gcc 21:03:27 <andythenorth> bit weird that one fails 21:03:36 <andythenorth> also I need to call cpp, not clang 21:03:42 <andythenorth> not everyone has clang :P 21:03:52 <planetmaker> CF doesn't ;) 21:04:11 <planetmaker> at least not yet 21:04:12 <andythenorth> gcc works 21:04:26 <andythenorth> Iâll just ignore cpp 21:10:47 <andythenorth> yeah, now I have nml 21:12:00 <Wolf01> 'night 21:12:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:13:33 <andythenorth> now all I need is nmlc nml->nfo 21:13:45 <andythenorth> then concatenate nfo and teach makefile to call grfcodec 21:13:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 21:14:01 * andythenorth throws away the power of make in favour of results :P 21:15:30 <planetmaker> without make no CF, tho :P 21:15:57 <andythenorth> still make :) 21:16:10 <andythenorth> just not getting tied in knots trying to batch process with make 21:16:20 <andythenorth> I can learn that, but itâs too much change in one go 21:16:28 <planetmaker> or you can provide all your own build rules in a custom build script. then you can avoid make, too ;) 21:16:33 <andythenorth> I dunno 21:16:44 <andythenorth> Iâm worried about dependency checks 21:16:51 <andythenorth> I was hoping make would solve that 21:17:33 <planetmaker> it can 21:17:41 <andythenorth> I think dep checks are super hard 21:17:48 <planetmaker> and yes, they are 21:17:49 <andythenorth> there almost needs to be code checking the deps 21:18:00 <planetmaker> cpp can help with those :P 21:18:14 <planetmaker> cpp -MMD file -o file.dep 21:18:47 <andythenorth> it probably doesnât understand python imports etc? 21:18:49 <planetmaker> it will pickup the includes. But not the graphics 21:18:51 <frosch123> s/.dep/.nml/ ? 21:19:06 <planetmaker> frosch123, for checking deps? na 21:19:28 <frosch123> doesn't -MMD output to "outfile.file.dep"? 21:19:41 <frosch123> or is that a gnu extension? 21:20:27 <planetmaker> I don't understand the man page output on -MD :P. It depends on other settings ;) 21:20:38 <planetmaker> -MD -MD is equivalent to -M -MF file, except that -E is not implied. The driver determines file based on whether an -o option is given. If it is, the driver uses its argument but with a 21:20:38 <planetmaker> suffix of .d, otherwise it takes the name of the input file, removes any directory components and suffix, and applies a .d suffix. 21:20:38 <planetmaker> If -MD is used in conjunction with -E, any -o switch is understood to specify the dependency output file, but if used without -E, each -o is understood to specify a target object file. 21:20:38 <planetmaker> Since -E is not implied, -MD can be used to generate a dependency output file as a side-effect of the compilation process. 21:20:45 <frosch123> be carefule, there are -MM -MD -MMD 21:20:53 <andythenorth> isnât this specific to C / C++? 21:21:02 <andythenorth> I did do some reading about that a few weeks ago :P 21:21:03 <planetmaker> -MMD is like -MD except ... :P 21:21:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: it tracks the #include 21:21:26 <frosch123> so, specific to the preprocessor, not to c/c++ 21:21:31 <andythenorth> ok so python imports wonât show 21:21:37 <planetmaker> nope, they won't 21:21:39 <andythenorth> nor python template usage 21:21:41 <andythenorth> nor lang files 21:21:54 <planetmaker> neither 21:22:15 <planetmaker> but that's what make solved... %.grf: lang/*.lng 21:22:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's not libinterpose :p 21:23:18 <frosch123> though i never figured out, where that lib comes from 21:23:28 <andythenorth> neither did google apparently 21:23:40 <frosch123> there are only myths about it, but i have it at work 21:23:58 <frosch123> possibly it is only a "concept" and someone else implemented it 21:25:28 *** bugzee [~bugzee@75-106-22-229.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:38 <andythenorth> hmm 21:26:02 <andythenorth> so if I write *enough* python scripts to output the lists of deps, make can use those :P 21:26:11 <andythenorth> but then itâs back to my flakey python 21:26:28 <andythenorth> anyway, bed time 21:26:40 <planetmaker> as long as you use python to write your nml or nfo you have to use that to write the deps 21:26:47 <planetmaker> and... sleep well :) 21:26:51 <andythenorth> thanks, that was painful, maybe I learnt something :P 21:26:52 <andythenorth> dunno 21:26:56 <andythenorth> tomorrow is a new day :) 21:27:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:32:11 <Aphid> when changing the speed the relative "growth progress" is preserved --> Might be good to add that to the API documentation. 21:47:45 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:01 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:48:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:11 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:55 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:50:26 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has joined #openttd 21:51:31 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 21:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, i finished a railway line from my farm to the nearest village 21:58:07 <frosch123> night 21:58:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01d786.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:08:52 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:44:17 *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:19 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 22:55:50 *** smb_ [~smb_@OSH-195-222.onshore.net] has joined #openttd 23:05:55 *** Aphid [~Aphid@5351C956.cm-6-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:18 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:29:46 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 23:51:17 *** smb_ [~smb_@OSH-195-222.onshore.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:17 *** smb_ [~smb_@OSH-195-222.onshore.net] has joined #openttd