Config
Log for #openttd on 20th July 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:29:42  *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:56:37  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:11:54  *** smb_ [~smb_@OSH-195-222.onshore.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:15:23  *** Rarn [~Rarn@0001f26c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
01:15:50  *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:03:35  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has joined #openttd
02:05:54  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
02:26:10  *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
02:37:20  *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
02:37:23  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
02:40:35  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has joined #openttd
02:43:24  *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-54-110.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:54:46  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:08:46  *** shirish_ [~quassel@59.88.98.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:30:06  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has joined #openttd
03:46:36  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
04:05:28  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
04:14:18  *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
04:43:17  *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
04:49:57  *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:56:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6748A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
04:56:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6679D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
05:42:41  *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.160] has joined #openttd
05:57:56  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
06:15:29  *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:30:04  <andythenorth> la la la
06:31:55  <planetmaker> moin
06:45:15  <andythenorth> one step forward, one step backward
06:45:59  <andythenorth> coffee
06:46:46  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
06:49:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is there a way to stop nmlc expanding the includes when reporting errors?
06:49:34  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd
06:49:41  <andythenorth> I just want the line number in the nml file
06:50:56  <planetmaker> I don't think you can easily do that. You will have to strip the include information in the nml file it processes so that it looks like an original nml file
06:53:15  <andythenorth> hmm
06:53:37  <planetmaker> nml gets the include info from the typical lines which start with #
06:54:06  <planetmaker> those are generated by the preprocessor to help compilers pointing to the place of the error. Than stupidly giving the line in the preprocessed big file
06:54:23  <planetmaker> thus I don't quite understand why you want to remove this feature :)
06:54:36  <andythenorth> because the line numbers don’t correspond to anything useful
06:54:42  <andythenorth> currently
06:55:02  <andythenorth> hmm or not
06:55:08  <Rubidium> just sed -i '/^#.*//' <nml file> ?
06:56:45  <andythenorth> I suspect it’s a valid error, and macro expansion is failing silently for some reason
06:57:09  <andythenorth> or rather, before I started changing the compile, I expected one specific failure
06:57:21  <andythenorth> and the line number being reported is where I expected that failure
06:57:33  <andythenorth> but I can’t see the problem in the processed nml
06:57:42  <andythenorth> and I’d rather have the line number in the processed nml
06:58:12  <planetmaker> yeah... remove the line info from the pnml like rubi suggested
06:58:53  <andythenorth> what’s wrong with this? o_O
06:58:54  <andythenorth> switch(FEAT_INDUSTRYTILES, SELF, THIS_ID(tile_nearby_industry), (nearby_tile_class( 1, 1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class( 1, 0) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class( 1, -1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class( 0, -1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class(-1, -1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class(-1, 0) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY) | (nearby_tile_class(-1, 1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTR
06:58:55  <andythenorth> (nearby_tile_class( 0, 1) == TILE_CLASS_INDUSTRY)) { 1: return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_DISALLOW; return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW; }
06:59:14  <planetmaker> | --> ||
06:59:34  <andythenorth> THIS_ID(blah) macro expansion failed
06:59:35  <planetmaker> you're using currently bit math instead of boolean math
06:59:59  <andythenorth> I am? :)
07:00:14  <andythenorth> it would take me 10 minutes to understand that switch :)
07:00:45  <planetmaker> then make one switch for each expression separated by |
07:00:58  <planetmaker> would take longer to understand then :P
07:01:06  <andythenorth> nah, I’ll leave it
07:01:12  <andythenorth> I might fix the broken macro though :P
07:11:06  * andythenorth break-fix coding :P
07:18:26  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:18:51  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
07:19:29  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
07:19:32  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
07:28:30  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:28:33  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
07:50:34  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A0D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
07:55:30  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
08:07:09  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
08:07:37  <Wolf01> hi hi
08:08:45  <andythenorth> o/
08:22:54  <planetmaker> laters :)
08:33:06  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
08:33:48  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
08:36:35  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:37:48  *** shirish [~quassel@59.88.96.21] has joined #openttd
08:38:52  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:48:50  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
08:52:48  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
08:54:50  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:57:03  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:57:35  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
08:59:37  <andythenorth> where is cat?
09:00:29  *** Yotson [~Yotson@92.66.58.22] has joined #openttd
09:01:14  <Rubidium> with Sam in LA?
09:11:49  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
09:16:25  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7436d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
09:18:06  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:23:56  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
09:27:27  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:27:39  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
09:30:51  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:45:17  *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.197.133] has joined #openttd
09:46:01  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
09:52:35  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3273
09:52:35  *** Guest3273 [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:52:36  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:57:39  *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd
10:01:20  <andythenorth> nml, using ‘param[0]’ how do I read a specific bit?
10:02:24  <andythenorth> hasbit?
10:02:48  <kero> Hi
10:04:25  *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.112] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC, now with IRCV4 support. Predicting the future! (www.adiirc.com)]
10:04:50  <kero> Is there some way to set a wait time in depots in timetables ?
10:05:22  <kero> (I guess not but I hope I missed something ... ;) )
10:07:03  <kero> andythenorth : I might be wrong, but I think that the bitwise &, which Alberth explained to me the other day, should do that
10:07:11  <andythenorth> hasbit probably works
10:07:16  <andythenorth> it’s just a bool test
10:07:52  <Alberth> it does work
10:08:45  <Alberth> it's just wrapping  (value & (1 << bitnumber)) != 0   for you :)
10:10:13  <andythenorth> how nice of it
10:14:15  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:17:37  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
10:17:39  <andythenorth> \o/
10:17:59  <andythenorth> got one industry working on python -> pnml -> nml -> nfo
10:18:14  * andythenorth yak shaving
10:19:42  <andythenorth> if it works, a compile to test one industry will be ~10s instead of ~3m
10:21:35  <andythenorth> maybe 20s, depends on grfcodec
10:26:40  *** LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:28:35  <andythenorth> FIRS codebase is bigger than it needs to be
10:28:41  <andythenorth> project isn’t that complicated :P
10:36:58  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:41:36  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:05:40  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
11:08:58  *** Polleke_ [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
11:10:26  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> where is cat? <-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggJ1BhQbck
11:14:42  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22:24  *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
11:23:16  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> where is cat? <-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggJ1BhQbck
11:37:52  <andythenorth> lots of cat
11:45:45  *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.197.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:52:52  *** juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:52:55  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
11:53:31  *** juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:54:01  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:55:15  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:00:46  * andythenorth fun with compiles
12:00:52  *** Polleke_ [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:16:32  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
12:21:09  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:29:30  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:32:07  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
12:33:11  <andythenorth> this, in combination with 2 toddlers, is a good lesson in state machines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKqFcmZG3LA
12:35:07  <andythenorth> specifically what happens if you inject chaos monkey and get out of an acceptable state
12:35:19  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:37:55  * FLHerne remembers having one of those
12:38:09  <FLHerne> It had yellow construction equipment though
12:40:11  *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:40:44  <andythenorth> there are variants
12:40:47  <andythenorth> it’s an appalling toy
12:41:16  <FLHerne> They're fun to watch, and then fun to confuse :P
12:41:57  <FLHerne> Take too long to setup though, and the little balls get everywhere
12:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like sa rube goldberg machine
12:46:33  *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.212.115] has joined #openttd
12:48:12  <andythenorth> wtf cargo code compilation
12:48:16  * andythenorth needs to fix that
12:51:45  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:53:49  <V453000> wtf wtf
12:53:50  <V453000> wtf
12:53:52  <V453000> wtttfff
12:54:10  <andythenorth> yes
12:54:21  <andythenorth> always
12:54:22  <andythenorth> and often
12:56:15  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit []
12:57:29  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:59:28  *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5ED3E068.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:00:08  *** LadyHawk is now known as Guest3285
13:00:33  *** Guest3285 [~LadyHawk@5ED3E068.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit []
13:04:21  *** Yotson [~Yotson@92.66.58.22] has quit [Quit: .]
13:10:07  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:11:20  <juzza1> even WTF sometimes
13:14:29  *** Polleke_ [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:15:49  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:18:11  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
13:18:22  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:23:26  *** kero [~keikoz@78.250.212.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:25:13  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:32:15  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:47:40  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54:34  *** Polleke_ [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04:56  <andythenorth> coffee
14:05:36  <andythenorth> running 16 nmlc processes makes my laptop hot
14:07:04  <V453000> no java
14:15:37  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
14:25:58  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:29:13  *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:32:12  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:33:27  <andythenorth> meh
14:33:36  <andythenorth> FIRS nfo compile _nearly_ works
14:39:28  <andythenorth> planetmaker: here? o_O
14:46:20  *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:46:31  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:51:06  *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:56:11  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56:52  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:23:11  *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
15:53:19  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DD9D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:55:59  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
16:10:37  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
16:50:27  *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51:08  *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
17:10:56  *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:11:36  <planetmaker> he's now here. somewhat
17:11:42  <planetmaker> good evening
17:20:29  <Rubidium> evening
17:34:22  *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd
17:46:02  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26697 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-07-20 17:45:54 UTC)
17:46:03  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:04  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 6 changes by siu238X
17:46:05  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 52 changes by eirik174
17:46:06  <DorpsGek> swedish - 49 changes by BerraGson
17:51:57  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:79b6:ee88:9e92:5587] has joined #openttd
18:05:47  *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-53-98-216.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> but he's not.
18:30:28  <planetmaker> new translators are busy it seems
18:48:06  *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:48:44  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:59:45  *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
18:59:48  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
19:00:05  <FLHerne> Are some of the minimally-completed and unmaintained ones ever going to be removed?
19:00:42  <FLHerne> It seems a bit pointless having <20% of a language translated for years
19:01:30  <Rubidium> FLHerne: which is *the* reason why those languages are not in binary releases
19:01:55  <FLHerne> Oh, that makes sense
19:02:24  * FLHerne hasn't really looked through the in-game list when not trying to find something specific
19:02:28  <Rubidium> (also why they're not mentioned on openttd's main site)
19:03:31  <Rubidium> except persian; basically it lists everything between 100 and 1000 untranslated strings
19:04:55  <FLHerne> That reminds me - a setting to have station names in a different language to the GUI would be nice :-)
19:06:01  <FLHerne> Atm, I end up with daft naming like 'Koln Heights' unless the entire game is in German
19:06:36  <Rubidium> also, all languages with more than 25 missing strings show a warning (in testing/trunk releases)
19:07:27  <Rubidium> but given the fact that things are getting worse... maybe removing the 'release' check is worth it to get a few more translators
19:14:24  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
19:24:56  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25:01  <andythenorth> dep checks
19:25:54  <andythenorth> so make can’t automagically build the graph for my project? o_O
19:26:37  <glx> it does it in this step :)
19:31:52  <andythenorth> there must be python libraries for building dep graphs
19:31:54  <andythenorth> maybe not
19:32:41  <andythenorth> hmm http://www.tarind.com/depgraph.html
19:33:09  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
19:38:07  <frosch123> andythenorth: write a script that uses "strace" to log which files are accessed by which command :)
19:38:47  <andythenorth> http://rainbow.chard.org/2011/10/02/debu-like-a-sysadmin/
19:38:50  <andythenorth> herp
19:39:22  <andythenorth> what is a good strategy for deciding a dep has changed?
19:39:32  <planetmaker> modification time of file
19:39:38  <andythenorth> yes :)
19:39:49  * andythenorth looks at current method
19:40:21  <planetmaker> same :P
19:40:24  <andythenorth> currently the compile stores mod. date of every dep in a json file
19:40:32  <andythenorth> (for IH)
19:40:34  <planetmaker> o_O
19:40:43  <andythenorth> then during next compile, I see if the file changed
19:40:53  <andythenorth> I wondered instead about checking the generated file
19:41:06  <andythenorth> if the generated file is older than the dep, or doesn’t exist, it needs building
19:41:18  <planetmaker> I'm really expecting py-make soon :)
19:41:29  *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit []
19:41:55  <andythenorth> I am still +1 to converting more of this to make
19:42:10  <Alberth> depending on what that means, it may already exist; there are several python-based make derivatives, afaik
19:42:10  <andythenorth> I am certain the python compile can be split into components that make can call
19:42:23  <planetmaker> that's likely
19:42:32  <andythenorth> but I made no real progress with make, and I made progress with python :P
19:42:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/pymake
19:43:18  <Alberth> kk
19:43:27  <andythenorth> goal “Allow writing some complicated build logic directly in Python instead of in shell.”
19:43:28  <andythenorth> :P
19:43:34  <planetmaker> :)
19:44:15  <Alberth> buildbot explicitly dropped that idea
19:44:39  <Alberth> but it may be a bit different in that case
19:45:09  <andythenorth> looks old
19:45:23  <Alberth> they do not allow complicated build stuff in the build, judging that a project should also be buildable without advanced build magic
19:45:24  <andythenorth> can’t find a github project for it
19:45:46  *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
19:46:02  <Alberth> so they advocate having scripts as part of the project to store the magic
19:49:28  <andythenorth> let’s see
19:50:29  <andythenorth> I am a bit confused about the goal
19:50:37  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/render_nml_nfo.py
19:51:01  <andythenorth> L143, L148, L154 show different build steps
19:51:06  <andythenorth> pnml, nml, nfo
19:51:15  <andythenorth> should I be trying to split those up and have make perform each one?
19:52:20  <Alberth> or combine them in one rule
19:53:10  <Alberth> but two separate rules is fine too
19:53:19  <andythenorth> one make rule ?
19:53:22  <andythenorth> currently that is the case
19:53:41  <andythenorth> I am a bit unsure of my aim
19:53:49  <andythenorth> basically I wanted to do it in make because make is correct
19:53:51  <Alberth> I mean pnml ... ->  nfo   in make
19:53:54  <andythenorth> and python is obviously wrong
19:54:41  <Alberth> ie the nml is just an intermediate file that you don't use for anything but the next step,right?
19:54:57  <andythenorth> yes
19:55:00  <andythenorth> and the pnml too
19:55:05  <andythenorth> they aren’t deps
19:55:28  <Alberth> handling build command dispatching in python is sub-optimal, I agree :)
19:55:51  <andythenorth> what’s actually wrong with it?
19:56:09  <andythenorth> - the multiprocessing pool could be dropped
19:56:23  <andythenorth> - the dep check I’m about to write is probably unreliable?
19:56:29  <andythenorth> - I’m reinventing the wheel?
19:56:53  <Alberth> python is a sequential general purpose programming language
19:57:12  <Alberth> you normally write input-compute-output code with it
19:57:50  <Alberth> and let the environment decide what to call in which order
19:59:00  <Alberth> you can also split build management and processing, basically writing your own dispatch program, so it becomes general purpose and re-usable
19:59:10  <Alberth> but make would be simpler probably
19:59:36  <Alberth> are your rules for dependencies that complicated?
19:59:49  <andythenorth> don’t know
19:59:56  <andythenorth> no comparable experience
20:00:05  <andythenorth> in any case, make won’t be able to figure them out
20:00:12  <planetmaker> dep rules for NewGRFs are a bit of a pain, when you want to put it into hard-written rules
20:00:13  <andythenorth> so I’ll have to write the dep checks
20:00:26  <andythenorth> I was hoping make was more magic
20:00:32  <planetmaker> it's easy to do the human way: getting all graphics. attaching them to items. And building a manual dep from that
20:00:36  <Alberth> no it's not
20:00:37  <planetmaker> doesn't need updating too often
20:00:39  *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
20:01:01  <Alberth> too many different ways to make one thing depend on another
20:01:17  <planetmaker> andythenorth, make does not help at all in figuring out the dependencies. You have to tell it about each dep
20:01:30  <andythenorth> I feel mis-sold :P
20:01:37  <Alberth> you cannot write a simpler text generator, based on a list of industries or so?
20:01:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: pretty trivially I could
20:01:53  <planetmaker> it helps you build the thing when you know the dependencies. And helps you re-build only what's needed.
20:02:03  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20:02:07  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
20:02:13  <andythenorth> the compile is already running from a list of industries
20:02:20  <Alberth> andythenorth: why not use that?
20:02:20  <andythenorth> so I could instead output a text file from that
20:02:27  <andythenorth> and then make could use that for deps
20:02:27  <planetmaker> thus it's of great help for partial compiles. When you tell it what depends on what
20:02:34  <andythenorth> and then call the compile script, passing the industry it wants
20:02:39  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
20:02:44  <Alberth> unless you pattern is so simple you can code it in a make rule
20:03:29  <andythenorth> so make -> compile.py -> text -> make -> compile.py -> output
20:03:33  <Alberth> dep check is more useful if you don't actually know the dependencies, and have to find them by examining the source
20:04:42  <Alberth> nah, just make a script that generates deps in make format, and make that file dependent on all source files
20:05:35  <Alberth> when the depfile is out of date, because you touched a source file, make will detect it, run the script, and reload the depfile
20:05:47  <andythenorth> I’d probably just wrap that up in a compiler module, and pass an arg for which method to run
20:06:11  <andythenorth> compiler -> nfo, compiler -> deps etc
20:06:11  <Alberth> the only weird things is that it will  also do that on "make clean" for example
20:06:20  <andythenorth> the compiler knows about all the deps
20:06:28  <Alberth> fair enough
20:07:26  <Alberth> the alternative is to throw the compiler code in a package, and import that from two #!/bin/env python  script files
20:07:35  <Alberth> but either solution is ok
20:08:00  <Alberth> hmm /usr/bin/env  even
20:08:00  <andythenorth> so to be sure I’m not smoking crack....
20:08:12  <andythenorth> giving make the deps list will let make know whether to call the compiler
20:08:23  <andythenorth> make will handle checking for changed files, and I can drop that bit from the compiler?
20:08:41  <Alberth> yep
20:09:03  <andythenorth> and if I give (for example) make -j14, it will spawn 14 threads, and I can ditch the multiprocessing pool?
20:09:34  <Alberth> within the capabilities of parallelizing of make sub-shells
20:09:58  <andythenorth> multiprocessing pool bombs horribly if a pool thread encounters an error
20:10:19  <andythenorth> and I am forcing 16 threads, which may be inappropriate for some environments
20:10:22  * planetmaker experienced that once :P
20:10:33  <Alberth> obviously, if you need to build one file first, there is nothing else you can do
20:10:52  <andythenorth> wrapping scripts around a compiler package is the way to do this
20:11:07  <andythenorth> it’s kind of going in that direction anyway
20:11:26  <Alberth> and there were some problems with parallel builds in different directories iirc, but no idea what the state is nowadays
20:11:38  <andythenorth> I could try it and find out :P
20:11:50  <andythenorth> hmm
20:11:59  <Alberth> your argument thingie is fine too, it doesn't make a huge difference
20:12:08  <andythenorth> it’s important that all the pnml is built before any scripts try the nml step
20:12:15  <Alberth> except perhaps more separated use of code
20:12:39  <andythenorth> does make wait for a rule to complete in all threads before trying next rule?
20:13:04  <planetmaker> it waits for the dependencies of a target to be finished
20:13:12  <Alberth> only if it has a single dependency that needs to be build
20:13:21  <andythenorth> hmm
20:13:40  <planetmaker> thus I have the phony targets which eddi so despises
20:13:50  <planetmaker> you can have e.g. pnml depend on all pnml files
20:14:06  <andythenorth> so I need to really break out the steps
20:14:07  <andythenorth> ok
20:14:43  <planetmaker> and then and nml depend on pnml and all nml files
20:15:16  <andythenorth> have we got any examples of deps being output?
20:15:24  <andythenorth> CETS does I guess
20:15:40  <planetmaker> well. the normal makefile does
20:15:53  <planetmaker> grf -> lng, nml -> pnml
20:16:06  <andythenorth> how outdated is the FIRS makefile?
20:17:25  <planetmaker> somewhat, I guess. But not entirely sure
20:18:59  <planetmaker> hard to say. 2013-09-04 seems to be the date
20:19:12  <planetmaker> or 0.3.0 of make-nml
20:19:45  <planetmaker> which is a year ago. So... well. could get an update. But not critical, I think. Though there's a lot of commits in make-nml since
20:20:03  <planetmaker> just checkout make-nml and copy the Makefile from that repo to FIRS and see?
20:21:08  <planetmaker> hm... with the phony targets like grf, pnml, nml there's some changed handling of those
20:21:22  <planetmaker> all my arguments might have been based on a slightly different Makefile than FIRS uses
20:21:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is there a make-nfo any more?
20:21:41  <planetmaker> no
20:21:53  <planetmaker> though chips has it basically
20:22:10  <planetmaker> the make-nml can easily be adopted to nfo
20:22:20  <andythenorth> just seems I’m mangling it a bit
20:22:21  <planetmaker> though I don't want to put it in there
20:22:36  <andythenorth> no, I’m not suggesting you mix them :)
20:22:37  <planetmaker> too much generalisation leads to too much pain :)
20:22:52  <Alberth> gn
20:23:01  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
20:23:04  <planetmaker> bye Alberth :)
20:23:07  * andythenorth also
20:23:08  *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
20:23:26  <andythenorth> quitting while I’m ahead :P
20:23:31  <andythenorth> at least it compiles right now
20:23:41  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/tmp.diff <-- diff to current make-nml Makefile
20:23:41  <andythenorth> bye
20:23:45  * andythenorth looks
20:24:20  <andythenorth> all details?
20:24:25  <andythenorth> no major structural changes?
20:24:35  <planetmaker> that's the full diff, yes. No fundamental change, no
20:24:40  <andythenorth> k
20:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> which idiot programmed this minecraft? "it supports åÀö" they say. but then it doesn't support ß...
20:25:09  <planetmaker> but the handling of nml / pnml phony targets differs. so it matters
20:26:15  <andythenorth> is that a diff against current FIRS tip in default?
20:26:29  <planetmaker> nearly
20:26:32  <planetmaker> 3 revs old
20:26:56  <andythenorth> some of the phony target differences might be due to bad changes I made?
20:27:12  <andythenorth> I still don’t really understand what I’m doing
20:27:18  <andythenorth> I just change stuff until something works
20:27:28  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:79b6:ee88:9e92:5587] has quit [Quit: .]
20:27:41  <planetmaker> dunno. But those look like ones I might have made in make-nml as well
20:27:45  <Eddi|zuHause> everyone does that. the question is which level of nothing you understand
20:27:47  *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: sigh]
20:28:12  <andythenorth> are there countable and uncountable nothings?
20:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> certainly
20:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody knows if there's something inbetween
20:29:10  <planetmaker> hm. https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3527/
20:29:11  <andythenorth> there’s probably nothing inbetween
20:29:21  <andythenorth> is nothing something?
20:29:34  <andythenorth> hmm, it’s like year 2 philosophy all over again :P
20:29:47  <planetmaker> oh, andythenorth, please adjust .hgignore. It's aweful, all those generated files spamming hg st
20:30:04  * andythenorth looks
20:30:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I added generated/ yesterday or so
20:30:30  <andythenorth> is that not working for you?
20:30:36  <planetmaker> nope. I just built tip
20:31:03  <andythenorth> does it need generated/* ?
20:31:05  <planetmaker> you added generated/ but not generated/* as you wanted ;)
20:31:07  <planetmaker> yup
20:31:14  <planetmaker> it's set to glob. Not to regex
20:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1126527#p1126527 <-- why is the black man cross-eyed?
20:31:22  <andythenorth> oh
20:31:33  <andythenorth> translations/ is also wrong, but deprecated anyway
20:31:36  <andythenorth> that should go
20:31:41  <planetmaker> also lang/*.lng
20:31:53  <planetmaker> firs.nfo as well
20:32:13  <planetmaker> well. I could fix it, I guess
20:32:26  <andythenorth> I pushed a change
20:32:35  <andythenorth> not all of them though
20:32:51  <andythenorth> you have firs.nfo in root?
20:33:51  *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.112] has joined #openttd
20:34:42  <planetmaker> yup. But I'll try a clean repo and see what I get
20:35:00  <planetmaker> and push a commit to ignore everything hg st shows afterwards :)
20:35:24  <andythenorth> thanks :)
20:35:26  <planetmaker> hg purge --all for the win. Destroys all work if not committed :P
20:35:27  * andythenorth sleep
20:35:35  <planetmaker> sleep well
20:35:38  <andythenorth> bye
20:35:39  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
20:39:06  *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
20:40:53  *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:43:30  *** jpierre03_ [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd
20:49:42  *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:50:10  *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
20:52:25  <frosch123> night
20:52:27  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7436d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
20:54:01  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:44  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:07:20  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
21:08:05  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit []
21:08:07  *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
21:08:48  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit []
21:11:20  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
21:14:57  *** LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit []
21:18:48  *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.254.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:20:01  *** jpierre03_ [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:20:50  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has joined #openttd
21:25:49  <Wolf01> 'night
21:25:56  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:36:33  *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd
21:43:38  *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.112] has quit [Quit: restarting]
21:44:17  *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.112] has joined #openttd
22:03:36  *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:07:06  *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
22:12:07  *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:17  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A0D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:36:22  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:45:32  *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd
22:46:26  *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
22:59:02  *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04:29  *** shirish [~quassel@59.88.96.21] has joined #openttd
23:07:02  *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:13:48  *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
23:15:43  *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
23:27:15  *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
23:32:15  *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
23:33:55  *** smb_ [~smb_@199.119.245.122] has joined #openttd
23:34:07  *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk