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Log for #openttd on 12th September 2014:
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10:48:05  <Pikkaphone> more like bananaphone
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11:51:01  <andythenorth> Cabeese!
11:51:59  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so does anything trigger re-randomising the vehicle random bits? <- if you don't set any triggers, it won't be triggered
11:52:23  <andythenorth> so I can probably use that to fix smoke for randomly-reversed engines
11:52:30  <andythenorth> or I just leave it coming out of the cab
11:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure you use the same decision chain everywhere
11:53:52  <peter1138> huh
11:53:53  <andythenorth> oh so I have to use the same random switch, and then check which callback I’m in?
11:54:02  <andythenorth> or just same structure for random switch?
11:54:13  <peter1138> use the same random bit that determines if the vehicle is reversed...
11:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> copy-paste will be enough
11:54:25  <andythenorth> it’s fake reversed
11:54:38  <peter1138> huh
11:54:44  <andythenorth> I broke most of newgrf with these 3-part articulated vehicles
11:54:51  <andythenorth> I can use ~nothing of the built-in stuff
11:55:09  <andythenorth> I’m going to have to build my own switches for cargo load states too :P
11:55:29  <peter1138> i said use the same bit, not use the reversed flag.
11:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i've done that as well
11:55:48  <peter1138> if you used different bits for the smoke, then it wouldn't match...
11:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but also because i don't like the 33/66 split
11:55:51  <andythenorth> oic, check a bit
11:56:01  <andythenorth> does nml have that built in?
11:56:03  * andythenorth checks
11:56:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i want more like a 10/90 split for 3 loading states
11:56:52  <andythenorth> nml has ‘dependent’
11:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so empty: <10%, half-full: 10-90%, full: >90%
11:57:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: agreed, makes sense
11:57:07  <andythenorth> might code that tonight
11:57:35  <andythenorth> I don’t actually understand the nml dependent stuff
11:57:37  <andythenorth> but eh
11:57:41  <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch
11:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "dependent" is what you want
11:58:39  <andythenorth> ta
11:59:47  <Pikkaphone> silly old nml
11:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and you want FORWARD_SAME or BACKWARD_SAME for the other vehicle parts
12:00:05  <andythenorth> ?
12:00:11  <andythenorth> for smoke, or for cargos?
12:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> for the random switches
12:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the first part uses "SELF" as reference, the second part FORWARD_SAME(1) and the third part FORWARD_SAME(2)
12:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> then they all read the random bits of the same vehicle
12:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause> err, SELF, not SAME
12:02:24  <andythenorth> yeah :)
12:02:30  <andythenorth> I found that yesterday
12:02:33  <Pikkaphone> self difference
12:02:42  <andythenorth> I had vehicles in depot different colour to out of depot ;)
12:03:19  <andythenorth> clever old nml
12:03:20  <andythenorth> :P
12:03:24  <andythenorth> lo Pikkaphone
12:03:26  <andythenorth> cabeeses!
12:03:37  <Pikkaphone> mmmm cabeeses
12:03:50  <Pikkaphone> how many?
12:03:54  <andythenorth> 1
12:03:56  <andythenorth> why do we do them?
12:04:16  <Pikkaphone> should make a cabeese of the world set
12:04:30  <andythenorth> maybe later
12:04:39  <Pikkaphone> 50 useless vehicles to fill your buy list
12:04:46  <andythenorth> and random variations
12:05:40  <Pikkaphone> yes
12:05:43  <Pikkaphone> well
12:06:06  <andythenorth> Iron Horse caboose has no variations
12:06:08  <andythenorth> maybe I should
12:06:17  <Pikkaphone> 50 useless vehicles is not a radical departure from traditional set design hur hur
12:06:40  <Pikkaphone> does it reverse?
12:06:45  <andythenorth> hur hur hur
12:06:49  <andythenorth> yes, inwisibly
12:07:06  <andythenorth> it’s symmetrical
12:07:12  <Pikkaphone>  imperceptibly?
12:07:16  <andythenorth> better
12:07:29  <andythenorth> I keep thinking
.cargo bonus for having a cabeese?
12:07:30  <andythenorth> then I think again
12:07:42  <Pikkaphone> bad bad bad feature
12:08:05  <andythenorth> improved reliability?
12:08:11  <andythenorth> if cabeeses?
12:08:13  <andythenorth> nah
12:08:16  <Pikkaphone> no, nothing
12:08:19  <andythenorth> indeed
12:10:15  <Pikkaphone> but what of ship cabeese?
12:10:49  * Pikkaphone berb
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12:25:35  <Pikka> crikey
12:25:47  <peter1138> wot
12:25:56  <Pikka> u wot m8
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12:28:33  <Pikka> also, don't give cabeese low speed limits
12:28:48  <Pikka> that's shamefully realistic
12:29:57  <Pikka> andythenorth, my assigment is in (with almost an hour to spare!), so I guess I'm working on a hoverzellepin now
12:30:28  <andythenorth> ooh
12:30:51  <andythenorth> Pikka: cabeese could have no speed limit?
12:31:53  <Pikka> I think that some wagons having speed limits and some not is a bad feature, inconsistency and all
12:32:32  <andythenorth> oops :P
12:32:38  <andythenorth> inconsistency be damned
12:32:51  <planetmaker> omg. We should make a totally consistent set
12:32:57  <planetmaker> 10 vehicles. All the same speed and same stats
12:32:58  <andythenorth> once you’re at 100mph+, it might as well be no speed limit imho
12:33:06  <Pikka> but certainly in bineabble the caboose goes 150mph
12:33:16  <planetmaker> hi hi also :)
12:33:19  <andythenorth> hi hi Pikka
12:33:19  <Pikka> which is as fast as any other wagon
12:33:21  <andythenorth> balls
12:33:23  <andythenorth> hi hi planetmaker
12:33:29  <peter1138> meh
12:33:30  <Pikka> him too
12:33:38  <andythenorth> hem
12:33:44  <andythenorth> is meh backwards
12:33:51  <Pikka> si
12:33:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: make an Iron Horse fork, totally consistent
12:34:01  <andythenorth> all vehicles have sames stats
12:34:03  <planetmaker> :)
12:34:10  <Pikka> iron force hawk
12:34:12  <planetmaker> buy different vehicles just for the looks
12:34:21  <andythenorth> 8/8, 65mph, 30 units, refittables
12:34:24  <planetmaker> I'll call that set trojan horse then
12:34:24  <peter1138> why change the looks? that's inconsistent
12:34:34  <andythenorth> agreed
12:34:36  <planetmaker> true
12:34:36  <andythenorth> blocks ftw
12:34:39  <andythenorth> eddi has some
12:37:42  <andythenorth> Pikka: so which hoverzellepin? o_O
12:37:47  <andythenorth> a realism one, or a made-up one?
12:38:28  <Pikka> srn4ish? I mean, I want a made-up one, but I can make it as "realism" as you want.
12:40:36  <Pikka> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1wr4woyWvk
12:40:38  <Pikka> choo choo
12:40:48  <Pikka> no hovercaboose though, shameful display
12:41:19  <andythenorth> srn4ish is good
12:41:29  <andythenorth> I need a smaller one as well
12:41:35  <andythenorth> 100 pax or so
12:41:41  <Pikka> a passenger one or a container one?
12:42:11  <andythenorth> mixed up one
12:42:14  <andythenorth> hang on
12:42:41  <andythenorth> a VT 2 ish one
12:42:42  <andythenorth> http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/images/craft/vt2/vt2_headline.jpg
12:42:47  <andythenorth> was only ever a prototype
12:43:07  <Pikka> hmm
12:43:10  <Pikka> k
12:45:56  <andythenorth> also bloody loads of Griffon hoverzeps http://www.griffonhoverwork.com/products-services/hovercraft-range.aspx
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12:46:49  <Pikka> splendid
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15:34:31  <Pikka> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVm3a5Eef00
15:34:47  <Pikka> lol @ the train driving through the tram on the crossing @ 57s D:
15:35:31  <Pikka> lol @ the tram chucking a uey @ 2:03
15:35:33  <Pikka> D:
15:35:55  <peter1138> ah, a game
15:36:03  <andythenorth> nice to know they kept the spirit of ttd
15:36:10  <Pikka> yes
15:36:11  <andythenorth> they said they are inspired by it
15:36:48  <andythenorth> but will I play it?
15:36:58  <Pikka> I don't know
15:37:06  <andythenorth> neither do I know
15:37:09  <Pikka> it supposedly has very poor performance, and isn't out onna mac yet
15:37:16  <andythenorth> must have itonna mac
15:37:21  <andythenorth> sad times
15:37:38  <Pikka> it was supposed to be released for mac and linux today, I don't know if it was/will be though
15:37:55  <andythenorth> http://www.train-fever.com/2014/09/train-fever-now-available-for-mac-and-linux/
15:37:56  <andythenorth> oic
15:38:02  <andythenorth> oh dear
15:38:38  <Alberth> people getting in the tram part where there is no door @ 1:58
15:39:12  <peter1138> urgh, i blinked this morning, and another massive load of updates appeared :S
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16:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it looks kinda cool
16:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played it.
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17:45:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26813 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt german.txt) (2014-09-12 17:45:33 UTC)
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:43  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 16 changes by telanus
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> german - 25 changes by MG
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18:14:45  <andythenorth> o/
18:14:57  <Alberth> hi hi
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18:16:19  <andythenorth> ooh
18:16:23  <andythenorth> refit patch
18:16:55  <andythenorth> about time :)
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18:19:05  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:19:14  <Supercheese> I approve of the "allow autorefit even if GRF doesn't" feature
18:20:08  <Alberth> sounds like a nice recipe for disasters
18:21:04  <Supercheese> eh, I make a lot of custom changes that y'all likely wouldn't approve of :P
18:21:29  <andythenorth> I approve of removing the newgrfs ability to prevent autorefit in a cb
18:23:17  <Rubidium> I approve of replacing all cargos with one cargo: "matter". Solves all the refit related issues once and for all
18:23:39  <Supercheese> but what if you want to add "energy" cargo?
18:23:47  <Supercheese> you'd have one heck of a conversion factor
18:23:48  <Rubidium> that's matter as well
18:24:31  <planetmaker> conversion factor of 9*10^16 only
18:24:50  <Supercheese>  :D
18:27:25  <Alberth> see those trains fly!
18:28:30  <planetmaker> cargo: 15t of matter. refit: 9*10^22 units of energy
18:28:47  <planetmaker> hm... 15*9*...
18:29:07  <Rubidium> isn't matter just a container of energy?
18:29:08  <Supercheese> Integer overflow
18:29:13  <planetmaker> and only ^19
18:29:24  <planetmaker> Rubidium, not really :)
18:30:11  <andythenorth> I approve of overflows
18:30:24  <Alberth> just use Python :p
18:30:56  <Supercheese> "I'm reporting an overflow error in your code."   "My cup runneth over."
18:31:07  <planetmaker> :)
18:31:19  <planetmaker> Supercheese, isn't that reporting an overflow error on your keyboard? :D
18:31:39  <Supercheese> Be hard to report that since they keyboard would stop working :P
18:31:43  <Supercheese> the*
18:33:10  <Rubidium> okay, I revoke my approval of the cargo "matter" and replace it with an approval for the cargo "particle"
18:34:03  <Supercheese> "Your cargo has tunneled out of its potential well inside the wagon"
18:34:05  <planetmaker> particle and matter is equivalent :)
18:34:20  <Rubidium> then photons are matter?
18:34:22  <planetmaker> hm... or not :)
18:34:39  <planetmaker> photons matter. For sure :P
18:34:50  <Rubidium> higgs boson matter?
18:34:58  <Supercheese> They only matter to physicists :P
18:35:09  <planetmaker> would be dark without, Supercheese ;)
18:35:30  <planetmaker> higgs probably matters, too. Especially in the buget planning
18:35:51  <Rubidium> but not in sense of the cargo "matter" vs "particle"
18:36:45  <planetmaker> :)
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18:45:21  <andythenorth> but anyway, commit that patch!!!
18:45:25  * andythenorth thinks maybe not
18:45:32  <andythenorth> but the autorefit cb is silly
18:51:22  <andythenorth> also, where is my free U2 album?
18:51:25  <andythenorth> :|
18:51:46  <Supercheese> The Internet, I would expect
18:52:34  <andythenorth> bloody internet
18:53:30  <Rubidium> utube?
18:54:10  <Wolf01> u2be
18:55:46  * andythenorth fixes Iron Horse some more
18:55:57  <andythenorth> Alberth: did you make more bugs yet? :)
18:56:21  <Wolf01> I want to do something, I have a lot of ideas
18:56:38  <andythenorth> o_O
18:57:10  <Alberth> I didn't play
18:58:26  <Alberth> not sure I want to continue shortly, it's a bit of a boring game
18:59:00  <andythenorth> oh dear :)
18:59:09  <andythenorth> Horse not challenging enough?
18:59:14  <andythenorth> it’s quite easy to make money with
19:05:38  <Alberth> no nice clusters of industry that produce heaps of stuff to transport
19:06:09  <Alberth> no RV to bridge small gaps
19:06:20  <Alberth> and no fast trains to bring it in from far away
19:06:37  <andythenorth> what year? o_O
19:06:42  <Alberth> but ok, it's 1897  :p
19:07:04  <Alberth> ie 17 years into the game
19:07:04  <andythenorth> yeah, it starts 1870 because Dan starts games early
19:07:09  <andythenorth> but I only play 1900+
19:07:47  <andythenorth> pre-1900 seems to suit people who like to watch the trains go by :)
19:10:51  <Alberth> I do that too, but it needs more interesting amounts of traffic first :p
19:12:21  <andythenorth> change the year :P
19:13:00  <Alberth> that would be cheating :p
19:13:18  * andythenorth cheats freely
19:13:34  <Alberth> besides, my newgrfs are probably all obsolete by now
19:15:41  <andythenorth> I am releasing most days :P
19:15:43  <andythenorth> play faster :P
19:16:09  * Rubidium knows that feeling
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19:16:27  <Rubidium> guess I made at least one release every day last week
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19:17:57  <andythenorth> is that a lavatory humour joke?
19:18:04  <Rubidium> nope
19:18:35  <Rubidium> only releases of software
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19:30:39  * andythenorth had better make smoke
19:32:58  <Alberth> light a fire, add cloth with oil
19:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't that work better the other way around?
19:35:29  <andythenorth> bah, I don’t just randomise graphics
19:35:32  <andythenorth> I do it by date too
19:35:44  <andythenorth> that’s a lot of copy-paste just to move smoke around
19:37:26  <andythenorth> sometimes vehicle-local storage would be handy :P
19:38:09  <Alberth> make two engines :p
19:38:28  <andythenorth> it’s not hard work
19:38:31  <andythenorth> just fiddly and boring
19:38:39  <andythenorth> and prone to going wrong with future changes
19:38:44  <Alberth> hmm, would also show up twice in the buy menu then, I guess
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19:40:09  <andythenorth> I should just randomise by build date
19:40:25  <Wolf01> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=685587934849878 reflex test?
19:40:25  <andythenorth> odd days = forward, even days = backwards
19:41:22  <Alberth> even days in odd months  or odd days in even months :p
19:41:42  <andythenorth> except if there’s an r in the month
19:41:43  <Alberth> but  yeah, just days is enough :)
19:41:58  <andythenorth> it’s enough, until there are 3 variants :P
19:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that will allow people to "cheat"
19:42:16  <andythenorth> ho ho
19:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, what problem should that solve?
19:42:17  <andythenorth> :)
19:42:23  <Alberth> imho they're allowed to :)
19:42:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the switches I need to copy would be simpler
19:42:33  <andythenorth> it’s conceptually easy, just boring to do
19:42:46  <andythenorth> (wrt the correct route)
19:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause> what's so problematic about random switches?
19:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> also, other switches need var61
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19:44:19  * andythenorth starts on the boring copy-paste-change :P
19:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and when i said "copy-paste", i actually meant code-generation
19:47:26  <andythenorth> you can write code generators *much* faster than me :P
19:47:32  <andythenorth> my brain is not made that way
19:47:42  <andythenorth> I can only write templates
19:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> brains rarely are, it seems
19:57:17  <andythenorth> templates are brutally simple, it’s just substitution
19:57:20  <andythenorth> any idiot can do that
19:58:27  * andythenorth removes refit cb from Squid and Iron Horse
20:02:31  <andythenorth> and Road Hog
20:02:59  <Alberth> aka, "all" :)
20:03:38  <andythenorth> oh yes :)
20:04:05  <andythenorth> oops
20:04:16  <andythenorth> I’m already running smoke cb to check for railtype :P
20:04:19  <andythenorth> more shenanigans
20:04:25  <andythenorth> ho ho
20:05:49  <peter1138> how many varactions do we have left?
20:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> about 2^31?
20:11:51  <andythenorth> bye
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20:15:27  <planetmaker> STR_SPRITE_ALIGNER_PREVIOUS_TOOLTIP                             :{BLACK}Proceed to the previous normal sprite, skipping any pseudo/recolour/font sprites and wrapping around at the front
20:15:27  <planetmaker>  <-- so... should the last word now read 'front', 'beginning' or 'start'?
20:18:21  <Alberth> wrapping around from the first sprite to the end
20:18:25  <Alberth> :)
20:19:00  <planetmaker> actually... yes. That's clearer imho
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20:19:56  <planetmaker> s/end/last/?
20:21:48  <Alberth> last seems better to match with first, to me
20:22:17  <planetmaker> ok, so it be. And vice versa in the other corresponding string :) Nice symmetry then
20:22:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it should also wrap "from last to first"
20:22:26  <planetmaker> ^^
20:24:55  <Rubidium> s/at the front/to the other end when needed/ ?
20:27:07  <planetmaker> I like Alberth's solution better tbh
20:30:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26814 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-09-12 20:30:23 UTC)
20:30:30  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6098]: Wording of tooltip in sprite alignment tool
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21:16:43  <planetmaker> good night
21:17:04  <frosch123> night
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22:57:07  <Wolf01> 'night all
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