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00:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> this feels like ECS... one traffic jam and all your production multipliers "go fluting" 00:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i used to make 2M per year, now i don't... 00:18:44 <Supercheese> sounds like a nasty infection of... train fever 00:31:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:53 *** djmattyg007 [~djmattyg0@CPE-120-149-26-157.oirx1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:28:22 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3D07.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 01:40:48 <Supercheese> No zeppelins in train fever eh 02:09:34 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:14:46 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.29/20140909085502]] 02:26:47 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.177.167.238.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - the horny client (www.adiirc.com)] 02:55:24 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:30:21 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:30:44 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:31:15 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:32:33 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:32:54 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:49 *** Crush [~Crush@c-73-54-192-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:18 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:47:18 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:18 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:10:50 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.70.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:23 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67B14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6679A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:01:11 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:08:08 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:08:16 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:19:01 <Supercheese> Hmm, how to translate "block signals"... 05:28:49 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 05:42:58 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:27 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 05:52:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:53:12 *** sla_ro|master2 is now known as sla_ro|laptop 05:55:27 <andythenorth> o/ 05:58:54 <Rubidium> moin 06:30:26 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:35:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26866 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 06:35:34 UTC) 06:35:41 <DorpsGek> -Change: make aircraft ascend/descend when they are too close to the ground or too far away (based on patch by ic111) 06:41:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26867 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 06:41:11 UTC) 06:41:18 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26866): hopefully fix MSVC compile error 06:49:12 <andythenorth> unrealistic speeds? o_O 06:49:15 * andythenorth thinks yes 06:59:34 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e428:e247:13a1:e867] has joined #openttd 07:07:58 * andythenorth has idea 07:19:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:48:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26868 /trunk/src (tile_map.cpp tile_map.h) (2014-09-21 07:48:18 UTC) 07:48:25 <DorpsGek> -Add: methods for getting a (theoretical) slope and tile height of tiles outside of the map array (ic111) 07:50:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host116-238-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 07:51:26 <Wolf01> hello 07:53:22 <Taede> mornin 07:57:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1915E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:57:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26869 /trunk (9 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-21 07:57:45 UTC) 07:57:52 <DorpsGek> -Add: support for an all black palette to prevent the need of having a black tile of all different slopes (ic111) 08:02:12 <peter1138> :) 08:13:09 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:19:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26870 /trunk/src (viewport.cpp void_cmd.cpp) (2014-09-21 08:19:32 UTC) 08:19:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r15190): since freeform edges the 'tile height' at southern edge * 8 pixels just 'south' of the edge tile would not be drawn and would as a result not be refreshed causing artefacts to remain there. This adds a virtual slope to level 0 so it can be redrawn appropriately. Loosely based on patch by ic111 08:19:50 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 08:19:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:32:44 <peter1138> hm 08:36:04 <Wolf01> o/ 08:49:03 <Alberth> \o 08:49:49 *** blargTest [db5aad61@107.161.19.109] has joined #openttd 08:50:28 <planetmaker> moin 08:50:40 <Alberth> hi ho 09:11:34 <blargTest> Anyone got a good recommendation for TTD-tutorial? 09:11:55 <Alberth> the wiki? 09:12:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26871 trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 09:12:04 UTC) 09:12:11 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Centre and draw arbitrary size highscore screen. Highscore text continues to be drawn with 640x480 dimensions. 09:16:55 *** blargTest [db5aad61@107.161.19.109] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:17:18 *** sla_ro|laptop [~sla.ro@89.137.74.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:32 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01d6f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:40:42 <frosch123> peter1138: i guess it is now easier to add a specific recolour sprite just for the newspaper X 09:43:09 <peter1138> silly costs, £16k to build a 3 tile bridge on corner water tiles, or £4k for a 7 tile monstrousity 1 level higher... 09:55:03 <peter1138> frosch123, easier how? 09:55:32 <frosch123> we now have a separate action 5 for ottd-insprite recolour sprites 09:55:47 <frosch123> s/insprite/inspired/ 09:56:05 <peter1138> oh 09:56:14 <peter1138> well the remap is 2 bytes, heh 09:56:23 <peter1138> like the magic for fonts 09:57:30 <frosch123> anyway, every baseset has to add that recolour sprite, so it would be easier to add more now, all at one 09:58:51 <frosch123> unless we figure out how to make eddi code the always-load openttd.grf thingie :p 09:59:03 <frosch123> but likely the file would need splitting into essential and bonus stuff 09:59:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 10:08:01 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: boom] 10:11:48 <keoz> Looks we're going to have more height level in trunk or I'm wrong ? 10:13:14 <frosch123> we are switching to free form building like train fever 10:13:40 <V453000> lol 10:13:52 <Wolf01> I won't believe that also if you tell me in klingon 10:14:38 <Rubidium> at least in OTTD you can build two bridges next to eachother over a diagonal river 10:15:01 <peter1138> :D 10:16:34 <Rubidium> furthermore, there are no problems with upgrading roads in OTTD 10:20:16 *** dxtr [7658bdf7@000182a2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: .] 10:20:38 <frosch123> what diagonal rivers? 10:20:53 <frosch123> but ok, you do not run into the issue of not being able to build the bridge 10:21:04 *** dxtr [cf8743c4@cubox.dxtr.ninja] has joined #openttd 10:21:09 <frosch123> ah, sorry, missed your second line 10:21:43 <frosch123> i am being out-trolled 10:28:12 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:54 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:32:41 <V453000> cargo icons are always 10x10 or is there something or any case that differs? 10:33:58 <planetmaker> should be 10x10 10:34:40 <planetmaker> V453000, and indeed like suggested somewhere in tt-f you should make sure your document your cargo usage in yeti in the wiki's cargo page like ECS and FIRS do 10:34:53 <planetmaker> s/your/you 10:35:02 <V453000> yes 10:35:12 <V453000> how do I do that? 10:35:21 <planetmaker> by editing the wiki :P 10:35:29 <V453000> oh ttf login 10:36:12 <peter1138> 20x20 cargo icons are kinda massive 10:36:12 <planetmaker> dunno whether it needs a separate row like ECS+FIRS. But probably easiest approach 10:36:54 <V453000> need 3rd column? :D 10:37:11 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels 10:37:28 * peter1138 ponders resurrecting the rgb company colours patch 10:37:32 <b_jonas> frosch123: because of foundations? yeah 10:37:55 <planetmaker> you want to use the cargo classes as in that table. Or define a new label for those where you don't. Usually 10:39:08 <V453000> so for example I got GRAI Grain and I give it CC_BULK and CC_COVERED 10:39:19 <planetmaker> in your grf, yes 10:39:23 <V453000> yes 10:39:50 <V453000> hm firs doesnt have GRAI? :d 10:39:59 <V453000> ah yeah from original 10:40:26 <planetmaker> yeah, use original, if possible, use new if existing, define completely new if none of above :) 10:40:46 <V453000> I do have originals mostly 10:40:47 <planetmaker> uranium probably is the latter category. And possibly dudes 10:40:54 <V453000> yeah 10:42:49 <planetmaker> dudes is like tourists. Just much more dumb 10:42:54 <planetmaker> :P 10:43:20 <planetmaker> though... if they take a camera to work... 10:46:28 <V453000> ok, any idea how to add a YETI column other than manually writing one extra | to each? :D 10:46:48 <planetmaker> nope. That's what it boils down to 10:46:48 <b_jonas> you're transporting Yetis? 10:47:21 <V453000> alright, dumb repetitive tasks I am good at :P 10:47:23 <V453000> yes b_jonas 10:51:27 <planetmaker> b_jonas, get yeti from online content. Make sure you got enough download speed :P 10:53:28 <V453000> duh just 115 MB or something like that :) 10:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> alright, dumb repetitive tasks I am good at :P <-- make a script? 10:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a regexp suffices 10:56:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's what he is not good at :p 10:56:54 <V453000> EXACTLY :D 10:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> s/(|[^|]*){5}/|/ 10:57:38 <frosch123> so, let's apply some ulimit, and see when nml runs out of memory 10:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that 10:58:04 <frosch123> V453000: just think of scripts as wtf-smileys 10:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "for some it's a regexp, for others it's the longest smilie of the world" :p 10:58:51 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: making that would take me ages, I did what I needed to and seems to work somewhat :P 11:00:20 <frosch123> why does ulimit not have a proper --help message? 11:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it took like 10 seconds to write that. and half of that is handling the AltGr key 11:01:20 <peter1138> hmm, i suppose i should do michi_cc's patch 11:01:30 <peter1138> cos recompiling everything after changing ZOOM_LVL_GUI is a pain 11:03:33 <V453000> so what if my GRAI offers cc_bulk AND cc_covered? should I fill that somehow into the page? 11:03:38 <V453000> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes 11:03:42 <V453000> or should I just leave bulk there 11:03:54 <V453000> perhaps put in comments on the right? 11:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> leave bulk there, and add the info about covered in the extra notes 11:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like FRUT 11:09:35 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has joined #openttd 11:11:09 <V453000> k 11:12:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26872 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:12:42 UTC) 11:12:49 <DorpsGek> -Change: give the disaster vehicles the same treatment as aircraft in r26866; make the ascend and descend if needed to cross high mountains (based on patch by ic111) 11:13:40 <V453000> hm, where do I find the IDs of classes? 11:13:54 <V453000> 0010 Bulk like e.g. what is hazardous 11:14:00 *** argoneus [~oftc-webi@ip-89-102-27-91.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:14:02 <argoneus> Hello 11:14:12 <argoneus> I am trying to do passengers recently 11:14:17 <argoneus> and setting up train/aircraft networks 11:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the "cargo classes" link on the top of the table 11:14:31 <V453000> oh :D 11:14:33 <argoneus> but my buses never haul enough passengers 11:14:34 <V453000> thanks 11:14:38 <argoneus> I'm also using assymetric cargodist 11:14:42 <argoneus> and buses are just not enough 11:14:52 <argoneus> I have 1500 passengers waiting to be carried into a city with 6000 people 11:14:57 <argoneus> even though I have 40 buses in the city 11:15:03 <argoneus> anything I can do? 11:15:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26873 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:14:58 UTC) 11:15:04 <planetmaker> use more busses. Use trains. Use trams... 11:15:05 <DorpsGek> -Change: split type_height into a type and height array (ic111) 11:15:25 <argoneus> I use trams/busses 11:15:27 <argoneus> but there's never enough 11:15:36 <argoneus> and the busses eventually just go all together in one line 11:15:44 <argoneus> even if I timetable them, the spreading fucks up eventually 11:15:56 <keoz> argoneus: German Vehicle Set 11:16:12 <keoz> high capacity busses/trams: they are enough to handle this 11:16:24 <argoneus> oh 11:16:34 <argoneus> so with the vanilla road vehicles 11:16:41 <argoneus> I'm better off not using trams/busses? 11:16:44 <b_jonas> use trains 11:16:52 <argoneus> how do I use trains for inter-city 11:17:14 <keoz> I don't say you are off, I'm saying that German vehicles help a lot 11:17:38 <argoneus> like 11:17:39 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bBrqA/18e550252f.jpg 11:17:44 <argoneus> what am I supposed to do here? :< 11:17:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26874 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 11:17:47 UTC) 11:17:55 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26872): hopefully fix MSVC compile error 11:18:13 <keoz> Timetable your bus networks 11:18:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26875 /trunk/src (saveload/afterload.cpp tile_map.h) (2014-09-21 11:18:10 UTC) 11:18:18 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move TropicZone information from m6 to type 11:18:20 <keoz> that also helps 11:18:23 <planetmaker> argoneus, just use more busses :) Expand your bus stops so that more than two or four can load at the same time 11:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> after you timetabled, increase the time at at least one station so it can make up for delays 11:19:02 <argoneus> how do you guys timetable an established network? 11:19:07 <argoneus> without using autofill 11:19:40 <argoneus> also 11:19:51 <argoneus> if one of my cities has train, airport and bus 11:19:54 <keoz> Send all vehicles in depot, Start only one vehicle, use autofill only to measure, take a screenshot of the autofilled timetable; reload the game saved fill the table 11:19:56 <argoneus> is it even possible to balance everything? 11:20:03 <argoneus> I started getting red lines everywhere 11:20:09 <argoneus> no matter how many busses i added 11:20:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26876 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:20:11 UTC) 11:20:18 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: move 'has bride above' data from m6 to type 11:20:28 <argoneus> also, one more thing 11:20:34 <argoneus> do you guys use more bus networks in one city 11:20:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26877 /trunk/docs (landscape.html landscape_grid.html) (2014-09-21 11:20:29 UTC) 11:20:36 <argoneus> or just one loop? 11:20:37 <DorpsGek> -Update: documentation about the map array 11:20:49 <keoz> Well, if the network is badly designed, you can add as many busses you want, they will just block each other and the throughput is the same 11:22:38 <argoneus> I was looking for people who've done this thing 11:22:43 <argoneus> but I couldn't find any pictures of "good" networks 11:22:49 <argoneus> all people ever post is train station designs 11:23:05 <argoneus> which is usually easy 11:23:10 <b_jonas> easy? 11:23:24 <argoneus> well 11:23:35 <argoneus> all you need to do is make sure trains incoming don't block trains outgoing and vice versa 11:23:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26878 /trunk/src (17 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:23:33 UTC) 11:23:39 <argoneus> and then you just increase the capacity 11:23:40 <DorpsGek> -Change: move m6 to TileExtended to keep Tile 8 bytes and thus better alignable 11:24:05 <argoneus> but for buses 11:24:11 <argoneus> with random road networks 11:24:17 <argoneus> it's hard to make a decent system 11:24:31 <argoneus> does anyone of you maybe have a screenshot of a well-established city? 11:24:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26879 /trunk/src (14 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:24:51 UTC) 11:24:58 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: remove most MayHaveBridgeAbove calls since the data is now always accessible 11:25:13 <b_jonas> dunno, look at savefiles on openttdcoop maybe, but I don't think they use buses often 11:25:49 <argoneus> is there a reason for that? 11:26:12 <b_jonas> trains have higher transport flux generally 11:26:40 <argoneus> but when you transport passengers 11:26:46 <argoneus> you need to have busses too, no? 11:26:54 <argoneus> you can't really build a train station in the middle of a city 11:27:01 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A257.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:02 <argoneus> OH, I wanted to ask 11:27:05 <b_jonas> sure you can 11:27:08 <argoneus> if I put a bus station in a city 11:27:08 <keoz> argoneus: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=70862&start=20#p1127727 11:27:11 <b_jonas> build it early 11:27:17 <b_jonas> and have the town grow around it 11:27:25 <argoneus> and control click the same station a little further away 11:27:30 <argoneus> will the one station get passengers from both areas? 11:27:38 <keoz> those are screenshots from a game where I finally achieved to have a quite fluid pax trafic 11:27:40 <argoneus> or just around the nametag 11:27:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26880 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:27:34 UTC) 11:27:42 <DorpsGek> -Add: stub settings for limiting bridge and map height 11:27:52 <b_jonas> or build an airport early, transport passengers with airplanes, and convert the airport to trains later when you have strong trains 11:28:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26881 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2014-09-21 11:28:29 UTC) 11:28:36 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: bump the savegame version 11:28:51 <argoneus> keoz: how did you manage to do that o.o 11:28:59 <argoneus> in my game most of those bus staitons would have 4000 passengers 11:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> station gets from around each tile 11:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> (roughly. the exact algorithm is a bit weird) 11:31:47 <argoneus> wait 11:31:49 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest382 11:31:50 <argoneus> keoz: in that picture 11:31:51 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:31:53 <argoneus> how much can one tram carry? 11:31:58 <keoz> argoneus: using German Vehicle Set (trams especially) + Having a network organized as a grid (2) + Finely timetabling the trams (3) + Using a patch I build for allowing trams to wait in depot (4) 11:32:12 <argoneus> oh. 11:32:45 <V453000> I think I am done :) 11:33:07 <Alberth> argoneus: no worries, lots of play time left before you mastered openttd :) 11:33:37 <argoneus> I've played openttd for longer than I'd like to admit ;_; 11:33:44 <argoneus> I always used to think 11:33:49 <argoneus> that airplanes were cheap and noobish 11:33:54 <argoneus> but they actually take time to set up 11:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> airplanes are terrible 11:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> can't properly timetable them and they have low capacity 11:36:36 *** MJP_ [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:37:20 *** Guest382 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:37:36 <planetmaker> use ships :) 11:38:10 <b_jonas> in this game I actually got lots of income from airplanes and ships, but that's only because I set up my trains wrong 11:38:15 <b_jonas> I'm trying to rectify that now 11:40:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26882 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 11:40:11 UTC) 11:40:18 <DorpsGek> -Feature: allow limiting the height of bridges (ic111) 11:41:22 <Wolf01> wasn't that already in trunk (hardcoded)? 11:41:47 <Rubidium> yes... no more than 16 levels high was trunk ;) 11:42:07 <Wolf01> ah so unlimited 11:43:09 <Wolf01> I remember something like "this bridge could have only 1 leve, this one up to 4 levels", but it might have been a patch-pack 11:43:25 <Rubidium> oh, yeah... 11:43:40 <frosch123> Wolf01: there was a minimum height over objects 11:43:56 <peter1138> Original bridges were only 1 level at all, IIRC. 11:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrfs can set bridge length, but not height, i think 11:44:17 <Wolf01> wait, it's possible to build bridges over objects? 11:44:18 <Rubidium> the concrete bridge may only be 2 high ;) 11:44:26 <peter1138> "has bride above" heh 11:44:51 <Rubidium> did I typo? 11:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> freudian slip :p 11:45:40 <peter1138> 26876 :) 11:51:04 <argoneus> I just looked at some of the games 11:51:15 <argoneus> why do people opt for lots of small stations with short trains in cities 11:51:16 <argoneus> ? 11:51:40 <argoneus> instead of huge stations with large trains 11:51:53 <Wolf01> quick load, less time to exit the station, I bet 11:53:03 <Alberth> less area coverage, allowing more stations perhaps 11:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> acceleration, train density/frequence, space usage, ... 11:53:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26883 trunk/src/landscape.cpp (2014-09-21 11:53:06 UTC) 11:53:13 <DorpsGek> -Change: make maximum desert height scale with the maximum configured height 11:54:13 <frosch123> short trains have better acceleration, plus it's better for the network if all trains have the same length, and shorter trains allow easier adjusting to amounts, without long waiting for loads 11:54:27 <argoneus> the network in this game is basically 11:54:32 <argoneus> like 4 huge hubs with long trains around the map 11:54:38 <argoneus> and small trains in all cities feeding the huge hubs 11:54:47 <argoneus> seems like a good strategy? 11:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't play games this way... 11:55:31 <frosch123> also huge stations are boring 11:55:31 <argoneus> why not? 11:55:39 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:41 <frosch123> many small ones with feeder is a lot more fun to build imho 11:55:58 <frosch123> station walking is a BAD FEATURE :) 11:56:20 <argoneus> station walking? 11:56:24 <planetmaker> :D There we have again that meme :) 11:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB) 11:56:47 <Wolf01> mmh, I just thought about a new "disaster": less train capacity based on local authority 11:56:56 <argoneus> oh wow 11:57:01 <argoneus> I thought my stations were robust 11:57:01 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bHS0w/d663b259c4.png 11:57:09 <argoneus> what .. the fuck 11:58:04 <frosch123> argoneus: generally avoid everything labeled "V" :) 11:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i just tried to use WASD to scroll the screenshot :p 11:58:11 <argoneus> V? 11:58:17 <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 :) 11:58:41 <argoneus> what is V? 11:58:47 <frosch123> who, not what 11:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i've asked myself that for years :p 11:58:55 <frosch123> though maybe "what" also works :) 11:58:57 <planetmaker> :) the author of the trackset (trainset) you use 11:59:08 <frosch123> and the constructor of that station in that game 11:59:11 <frosch123> *screenshot 11:59:20 <argoneus> is V some train genius? 11:59:42 <peter1138> More a madman 11:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i did think "that screenshot has V written all over it", and then it actually did :p 12:00:10 <planetmaker> oh, yeah, also V's the creator of that station... 12:00:22 <Wolf01> what could I eat, omelette or a banana? 12:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> banana ommelette? 12:00:59 <Rubidium> http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/member-recipes/recipe-detail/1028 ? 12:01:01 <planetmaker> omlette with banana actually can be quite delicious 12:01:29 <Wolf01> I was thinking more an omelette with wurstel and cheese 12:01:42 <planetmaker> and banana? 12:01:58 <argoneus> so um 12:02:01 <argoneus> is it a valid tactic not to use buses 12:02:02 <Wolf01> banana with nutella 12:02:05 <argoneus> but have one large station outside the city 12:02:09 <argoneus> and small stations inside the city 12:02:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26884 /trunk/src (newgrf.cpp settings_type.h) (2014-09-21 12:02:03 UTC) 12:02:10 <DorpsGek> -Change: scale the NewGRF's snow line level according to the configured maximum map height 12:02:11 <argoneus> and feed the large one? 12:02:19 <planetmaker> argoneus, any tactic is valid. The only goal is you having fun :) 12:02:25 <argoneus> well 12:02:29 <argoneus> a valid tactic to make profit 12:02:40 <planetmaker> nearly every tactic makes profit :P 12:02:49 <frosch123> you should put "fun" over "profit" 12:02:56 <keoz> making profit is easy 12:03:02 <frosch123> in almost all situations in life 12:03:06 <argoneus> okay 12:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's nearly impossible to not make profit in this game... 12:03:15 <argoneus> is it a valid tactic 12:03:22 <keoz> not a real challenge 12:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you start in 1800 with no vehicle progress and inflation enabled... 12:03:23 <argoneus> if I want to make sure all people will be delivered 12:03:24 <argoneus> in time 12:03:25 <argoneus> :< 12:03:44 <Alberth> argoneus: you and only you decide what valid is and what not 12:03:50 <argoneus> god damn it :D 12:03:58 <frosch123> argoneus: personally i prefer trams :p 12:04:08 <argoneus> I don't know what newgrfs to get 12:04:13 <argoneus> there's a thousand of them 12:04:17 <frosch123> trams feeding to trains, trains feeding to ships 12:04:18 <argoneus> and they may conflict with eachother 12:04:21 <frosch123> ignore busses and aircraft 12:04:26 <argoneus> I wish there was an openttd newgrf starter pack or something 12:04:32 <argoneus> with things that people generally like 12:04:33 <argoneus> :( 12:04:40 <keoz> that would make no sense 12:04:44 <frosch123> there is nothing which people generally like 12:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just get one of each type 12:04:48 <keoz> everybody uses different GRF's 12:04:55 <Alberth> I don't think you could point out a newgrf that everybody likes 12:04:58 <keoz> try them over time 12:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> if you prefer a country, pick all that have this country in the name 12:05:08 <Alberth> and not too many at the same time 12:05:12 <argoneus> well 12:05:14 <keoz> you don't need to fill your game with plenty of GRF's at once 12:05:16 <argoneus> but there can be some train set I like 12:05:20 <argoneus> and then it doesn't work with FIRS 12:05:24 <argoneus> and then something else 12:05:24 <keoz> browse them, try them, add them progressively 12:05:25 <argoneus> ;_; 12:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that's bad luck, but difficult to avoid 12:05:51 <planetmaker> every decent trainset works with firs 12:06:04 <keoz> well, with major trainsets such as UKRS or NARS, you're sure it will work with firs 12:06:18 <Alberth> such info would in fact be interesting to add while selecting newgrfs, imho 12:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> some people may be bad coders, but we can't prevent them from publishing their work. and some things are just too old and not maintained 12:06:31 <argoneus> I don't even know what's a major trainset 12:06:37 <frosch123> argoneus: newgrfs are like hearthstone decks. you can find a miracle rogue deck, but you may not have all cards for it, and even if it is considered the best, you may consider it boring to play :p 12:06:40 <argoneus> I don't recognize any of the names 12:07:06 <frosch123> argoneus: let's say, you first need to figure out what type of player you are 12:07:12 <argoneus> I just want to add believable variety between vehicles, as in, no regular train in one direction, and a flashy clown car in the other 12:07:28 <frosch123> do you want to play, or do you want to draw scenery 12:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> then don't use NUTS :p 12:07:42 <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pokheykot <-- this is what I used in my last game, argoneus 12:07:42 <argoneus> I want to have lots of variety between vehicles 12:07:42 <keoz> :p 12:07:46 <frosch123> do you want to make stuff effective, or do you want to make stuff look in a specific way 12:07:53 <frosch123> do you want to power-play, or do you want to role-play... 12:07:54 <argoneus> but no overpowered things 12:08:05 <argoneus> I'm fine with the vanilla game 12:08:09 <argoneus> I just want bigger cars and more trains 12:08:35 <keoz> well, for the cars, the classical GRF is eGRVTS 12:09:04 <planetmaker> I suggest heqs. It has excellent feeder trams :) 12:09:04 <keoz> a nice one to add is GRV: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/germanrv/ 12:09:06 <argoneus> oh, that looks exactly like the kind of thing I want 12:09:23 <frosch123> argoneus: a standard combination for the playing-type of player would be: NUTS, OGFX+RV, HEQS, FISH2, AV9 for vehicles 12:09:31 <keoz> planetmaker: does it ? I didn't explored it enough. Also manages passengers ? 12:09:46 <argoneus> so egrvts + grv? 12:09:49 <frosch123> for industries: either FIRS if you want something drastically different, or if the overwhelms you, try ogfx+industries instead 12:09:50 <planetmaker> keoz, probably not so much. dunno 12:09:52 <argoneus> does that work together well? 12:10:06 <argoneus> frosch123: FIRS is a bit too much for me I figured 12:10:10 <argoneus> but I don't know what else to do 12:10:12 <keoz> argoneus: in my case, those 2 work fine together 12:10:14 <argoneus> just going coal - factory 12:10:16 <argoneus> oil - refinery 12:10:17 <argoneus> is kind of boring 12:10:17 <frosch123> argoneus: did you find the parameter gui for firs? 12:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> my usual set up is something like DBSetXL(+FIRS extension),GermanRV,HEQS,AV8,FISH 12:10:35 <argoneus> frosch123: parameter GUI? 12:10:46 <Alberth> argoneus: default firs is very big, but you can select a basic economy as well, which is much better playable 12:10:51 <frosch123> in newgrf settings, you can select a grf, and then there is a button at the bottom for parameters 12:11:01 <frosch123> the good newgrfs allow adjusting various things 12:11:15 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: those things 12:11:18 <argoneus> look like what I want 12:11:21 <frosch123> in the case of firs, you can choose different economies with significantly lower industry type counts 12:11:51 <argoneus> so something like 12:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also exchange FISH for NewShips. 12:12:00 <argoneus> dbsetxl, firs, fish, grv, heqs and av8 12:12:02 <argoneus> that works fine? 12:12:02 <keoz> or use them together. 12:12:26 <frosch123> argoneus: dbset is ancient, you need the extension grf, which eddi mentions 12:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> DBSetXL needs an extension GRF to support the cargos 12:12:34 <frosch123> using a more modern set is way easier :) 12:12:40 <planetmaker> and it's not readily available either 12:12:46 <argoneus> extension grf? 12:12:51 <argoneus> what then :< 12:13:01 <frosch123> just ignore eddi :p 12:13:03 <keoz> Ok. Now the guy is even more confused as before :p 12:13:06 <planetmaker> well, the suggestion I pasted above :) 12:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's easy to find on grfcrawler 12:13:09 <argoneus> what about 2cc? 12:13:14 <keoz> never tried it 12:13:26 <planetmaker> keoz, sure. Never ask about "the best newgrf combo". 10 people, 15 opinions 12:13:30 <frosch123> argoneus: try one train set at a time 12:13:32 <frosch123> less confusing 12:13:33 <keoz> Clearly ^^ 12:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> 2cc-Set probably fails the "no overpowered" check :p 12:13:44 <argoneus> I'm already confused 12:13:51 <planetmaker> argoneus, yes. Just try stuff. 12:13:52 <argoneus> I need some special version of dbsetxl? 12:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> 2cc-Set is MASSIVE 12:14:01 <planetmaker> there's no comprehensive 'must have', 'must use' guide 12:14:06 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds good 12:14:06 <planetmaker> everyone has a different opinion 12:14:11 <frosch123> argoneus: exactly, that's why i would not recommend dbset for a starter 12:14:11 <argoneus> massive as in 12:14:13 <argoneus> a huge choice? 12:14:21 <argoneus> a huge set of choices* 12:14:23 <Alberth> yep 12:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: http://ttdpatch.de/download.html 12:15:03 <argoneus> but aren't there also like conflicts 12:15:04 <argoneus> like 12:15:11 <argoneus> isn't some road vehicle set aimed at 1950 start date 12:15:15 <argoneus> and another train set at 1850 12:15:16 <frosch123> yes, there are tons of conflicts with dbset 12:15:17 <argoneus> and then it fucks up? 12:15:23 <frosch123> for example you can only use it in temperate 12:15:29 <frosch123> only with certain extension grfs and such 12:15:31 <argoneus> I'll try 2cc 12:15:36 <argoneus> and see if I like it 12:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> sets are generally fine for a 1920-ish start 12:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause> before that it gets tricky 12:15:57 <argoneus> oh wow 12:15:59 <argoneus> 2cc has a LOT of trains 12:16:04 <keoz> UKRS/eGRVTS are fine before 1920 12:16:24 <argoneus> can I use egrvts with heq and grv? 12:16:28 <argoneus> or not suggested 12:16:39 <keoz> I do and never experienced problems. 12:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest you stop theorycrafting now, and just try some of the already mentioned combinations 12:16:49 <keoz> +1 12:16:55 <keoz> take time. One at a time. 12:16:55 <argoneus> oki 12:17:02 <b_jonas> 2cc is a more realistic than the default set, but is more difficult to play IMO 12:17:11 <argoneus> 2cc / grv / heq / av8/ fish / firs basic 12:17:14 <argoneus> I'll try these 12:17:26 <keoz> that's a good starting point 12:17:26 <b_jonas> as in, you have to make choices between trains depending on their intended use rather than always choosing the best one 12:17:35 <argoneus> all those sets work with FIRS btw? 12:17:37 <b_jonas> argoneus: try fish2 12:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:18:31 <frosch123> hmm, is it a safe bet that all grfs in content download work with firs? 12:18:31 <keoz> Don't forget to configure them before starting your game. 12:18:46 <frosch123> as in: the ancient cruft that does not work, never made it there? 12:18:47 <argoneus> oki 12:18:48 <argoneus> thanks 12:19:19 <b_jonas> argoneus: don't you want a town replacement set too? 12:19:47 <b_jonas> and extra stations? I really like Industrial Stations set, plus you may want some others for passenger stations too 12:20:07 <b_jonas> all the fancy bling on stations is really nice 12:20:10 <b_jonas> eyecandy 12:20:34 <keoz> b_jonas: maybee it's better let him time to get into the first one he's going to try :) 12:20:55 <b_jonas> sure 12:21:16 <b_jonas> I don't like most of these town replacement sets, I want a better one 12:21:23 <keoz> TTRS is nice 12:22:03 * keoz pulls trunk fearing for its patches. 12:22:05 <b_jonas> I tried that but I didn't like it 12:22:36 <b_jonas> I think my problem with TTRS is that already in 1950 the towns looked like they're from 2000 12:22:43 <b_jonas> I want rural stuff in 1950 12:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you want 1950 towns to look all bombed out? 12:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like "realistic"? 12:23:22 <b_jonas> no 12:23:28 <keoz> b_jonas: I mix Swedish houses + TTRS + TaI :p 12:23:36 <keoz> works fine together 12:23:37 <b_jonas> keoz: Swedish is good, yes 12:23:43 <b_jonas> what's TaI? 12:23:55 <keoz> Pikka's Town and Industries 12:24:02 <b_jonas> I see 12:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be PTaI? :p 12:24:14 <keoz> actually the GRF only introduces houses and is in an early stage of development 12:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> or is the P silent? :p 12:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (why does english have so many silent letters?) 12:25:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26885 /trunk/src (8 files in 6 dirs) (2014-09-21 12:25:04 UTC) 12:25:12 <DorpsGek> -Feature-ish: user interface for limiting the maximum height of a map 12:25:25 <keoz> Mmh. Pulled to fast :p 12:25:38 <keoz> Maybee wait for evening. 12:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: probably shouldn't pull before the nightly :p 12:25:56 <keoz> yeah ! 12:26:32 <keoz> which is actually a good thing, since I theorically have a lot of work :p 12:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> on a sunday? 12:26:57 <keoz> I'm teacher. Need to prepare my lessons for next week. 12:29:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A257.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 12:33:05 <frosch123> so, you are a young teacher :p 12:33:36 <argoneus> oh 12:33:40 <argoneus> there's also new towns and stations? 12:33:42 <argoneus> anything good? 12:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty... 12:34:19 <keoz> frosch123: well, for the kids I'm an old old old man :) 12:34:35 <frosch123> argoneus: let's say, there is an overwhelming amount of stations :) 12:34:41 <argoneus> oh 12:34:51 <keoz> argoneus: the basics: NewStations, Industrial Station Renewal 12:35:01 <Alberth> chips 12:35:03 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:35:12 <frosch123> keoz: i had a geography teacher, who used only material from his own school time 12:35:23 <argoneus> keoz: that's only 12:35:23 <frosch123> he literally repeated word by word what he used 12:35:27 <keoz> Outch 12:35:28 <argoneus> only visual, right? 12:35:34 <keoz> must have been hard :p 12:35:36 <frosch123> he was not able to comprehent what he was talking about 12:35:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26886 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 12:35:34 UTC) 12:35:42 <DorpsGek> -Change (r26885): the max height setting belongs more in the limitations section of the settings 12:35:49 <keoz> I teach history/geography. I like using beamers 12:35:51 <frosch123> you were better at tests if you could memorize the exact wording :p 12:36:28 <keoz> (mmh is beamer used in english ?) 12:37:30 <frosch123> no, it's a data/video projector 12:37:56 <frosch123> a beamer is a "KettenanschÀrer", no idea what that is though :p 12:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard that word before :p 12:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a chainsaw-type thing to shear sheep :p 12:39:01 <Wolf01> ok, cheese omelette and a banana, I lwft out the wurstel because I didn't want to open one of those uber sized 3-pack, now I'm ready to do.. mmmh the coffee 12:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> which doesn't sound very safe :p 12:39:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26887 /trunk/src (cheat_gui.cpp cheat_type.h) (2014-09-21 12:39:24 UTC) 12:39:31 <DorpsGek> -Add: cheat for changing the height level (mostly due to the mess with changing snow levels and such) 12:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: is that a wise thing to do? i vaguely remember that we once removed the climate cheat, because things were just too messy 12:40:57 <argoneus> er 12:41:05 <argoneus> I can't find "german road vehicles" in content download 12:41:10 <Rubidium> climate change is at least an order of magnitude worse 12:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not there 12:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> get it from website 12:41:29 <argoneus> is egrvts2 a worthy replacement? 12:41:31 <argoneus> I mean, does it have trams? 12:41:39 <argoneus> like, trams that can carry a lot 12:41:48 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard that trams in eGRVTS do not offer any improvement over road vehicles, but i never used it 12:42:09 <argoneus> oh 12:42:19 <Rubidium> there is already moving snowlines, but say double the height level moves the snow level by a factor two as well so places that used to have snow won't anymore 12:42:35 <Rubidium> so they might lose things like required cargos 12:42:55 <Rubidium> but that's more a game play issue that having the wrong cargos and such 12:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. so industries with the flag "Must be above maximum snow height" won't be anymore 12:43:54 <Rubidium> and once they die, the won't respawn (unless you build higher mountains) 12:44:11 <Rubidium> likewise, if you add a NewGRF with a much higher snow line you get the same effect 12:44:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26888 /trunk/src (ground_vehicle.hpp roadveh_cmd.cpp) (2014-09-21 12:44:38 UTC) 12:44:46 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: use ints for some z-levels of vehicles (ic111) 12:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: maybe a scenario_developer-only setting is more useful than a cheat? 12:45:31 <keoz> argoneus: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/germanrv/ 12:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that can be a GUI thing then 12:46:21 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you got the same issues in SE 12:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but maybe a person that enabled scenario_developer mode knows about some of them :p 12:51:16 <argoneus> wait what 12:51:19 <argoneus> there is monorail in 1950 in 2CC 12:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds about right 12:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> monorail as in that weird commuter rail stuff that never really took off 12:52:32 <argoneus> so it's not as good as vanilla monorail? 12:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 12:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but some cities have a monorail system where others would have a metro/subway 12:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't be this ultra-high-speed stuff that you know from original 12:54:14 <argoneus> oh ok 12:55:53 <frosch123> 2cc is a realism-based newgrf, you won't find stuff that didn't exist 12:56:03 <frosch123> unless maybe after 2010 in rare cases 12:56:16 <frosch123> i.e. after the grf was released 13:00:28 <argoneus> for some reason 13:00:32 <argoneus> my town names don't work 13:00:39 <argoneus> I enabled like 4 of them but when I make map they aren't there 13:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to select them in game settings after you added the grf 13:01:04 <frosch123> only add one grf, and enable them in game options 13:01:04 <argoneus> oh 13:01:09 <frosch123> it's tricky :p 13:01:21 <frosch123> one of the shittiest interfaces we have :) 13:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, right after the font size setting :p 13:01:42 <frosch123> funnily it fails even more in stable releases 13:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my suggestion was: scan all grfs for town name content (or add action14 flag), remove those from the list of available grfs, but add them to town name setting. then on game start automatically activate the appropriate grf 13:04:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and what about grfs which do both, townnames and other shit? (do we have those?) 13:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> those should better not exist... 13:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they cause weird stuff anyway 13:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> treat them as townname-only 13:22:46 <Rubidium> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6120 <- does Supercheese have a point there? It as if he does to me 13:23:18 <LordAro> seems like it to me 13:23:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 13:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> although the whole sentence doesn't make much sense if you don't already know what it means 13:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> makes a terrible case for a tooltip 13:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> or description 13:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> does anyone ever disable that, anyway? 13:25:54 <Rubidium> the signal GUI? 13:26:08 <Rubidium> if so, then yes 13:26:10 <planetmaker> the 2nd one should be "built". The first one remain "build" 13:27:16 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:27:37 <Rubidium> so, who can come up with a better description 13:28:36 <LordAro> personally, i think Eddi|zuHause's right - that setting is rather useless 13:29:19 <Pikka> ctrl-clicking still cycles through presignals, right? 13:29:42 <planetmaker> depends on setting, Pikka 13:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can even select presignal-only, pathsignal-only or all 13:30:07 <Pikka> right 13:30:16 <planetmaker> and indeed, maybe the 'enable signal gui' setting is one which could become openttd.cfg - only 13:30:21 <planetmaker> or just disappear 13:30:28 <Rubidium> LordAro: if I remove the setting, then I remove the window as well 13:30:39 <LordAro> why? 13:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> pffft :p 13:30:51 * Pikka thinks, by default, both ctrl-clicking and the signal gui should be path signals only 13:30:52 <Rubidium> because the window is rather useless for me ;) 13:31:09 <Pikka> non-path signals are a relic for "advanced" builders only ;) 13:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: or maybe change the setting so the gui also has the option presignal-only, pathsignal-only, all, none 13:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but some people use path signas plus the plain block signal 13:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to cater for those, too. 13:32:42 <Pikka> those people are "advanced" and can turn the full selection on 13:33:11 <planetmaker> path signals and all signals might suffice 13:33:40 <Pikka> for new players, the difference between "plain block signals" and path signals is a common point of confusion 13:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if this is "advanced". many noob-advice threads talk about using the block signal on straight track with no switches 13:33:56 <planetmaker> yeah. And default could be 'path signals only' 13:34:30 <Pikka> eddi: yes, because the reddit crowd etc take it as gospel that using path signals everywhere is going to kill performance 13:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, maybe when we want to phase out the block signals, hiding them by default may be a good idea 13:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: not only there 13:35:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like "moving goods to town improves growth" 13:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> an urban myth that's hard to kill 13:35:48 <Pikka> it would be easier to kill if there were fewer noobs asking "what's the difference between all these signals" ;) 13:36:04 <Pikka> which would happen if we hid the non-path signals by default 13:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you've convinced me. 13:36:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: why? Okay, moving goods away from towns improves growth in the same way... but still... it's an improvement over not moving goods 13:36:43 <Rubidium> at least when you don't have a booming pax/mail network in the town 13:36:48 <planetmaker> Rubidium, could be pax or mail, too (goods was meant as the cargo label) 13:37:10 <planetmaker> coal or oil works the same way, if close enough 13:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: exactly, there is nothing special about goods 13:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> can get the same growths by serving 5 coal mines 13:38:45 <Rubidium> true, but it doesn't say "only moving goods improves growth" 13:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but it's meant that way 13:41:18 <Rubidium> are you sure? 13:41:53 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:55 <Rubidium> I see it as a scientist having tried stuff and there's a remarkable improvement in town growth when sending (only) goods to the town 13:42:08 <Rubidium> but then I'm a bit pedantic in those kinds of things 13:42:55 <Rubidium> "you know that this contract means X and Y, right", no... it means "do it as you do it now" (which is definitely not X and Y) 13:43:43 <argoneus> who here was helping me with timetabling? 13:43:50 <argoneus> something with telling a bus to wait for a long time at one station to catch up 13:44:58 <frosch123> eddi and me 13:45:05 <frosch123> it's always the same douchebags 13:45:08 <argoneus> :< 13:45:12 <frosch123> maybe you can ask pm for a third opinion 13:45:15 <argoneus> so um 13:45:19 <argoneus> I autofilled the orders 13:45:24 <argoneus> and set them to wait at one station for 10 days 13:45:30 <argoneus> and now I'm not sure what the start date should be 13:45:32 <argoneus> does it even matter? 13:46:05 <frosch123> no, the absolute start date does not matter 13:46:13 <frosch123> only the relative start date between vehicles 13:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+click on "start date" to spread out evenly all vehicles that share this order 13:46:35 <argoneus> oh ok 13:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and make sure at the station with the waiting time there is sufficient space for overtaking 13:47:04 <argoneus> overtaking? 13:47:08 <argoneus> as in, having more loading slots? 13:47:14 <argoneus> so they don't have to wait 13:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise late vehicles will eternally get stuck behind an on-time vehicle 13:47:32 <argoneus> ok 13:47:51 <Rubidium> or specifically, for measurements: "maximum time between measurements: 4 months, maximum exceedance of maximum time: 4 weeks" vs "measure in a timeframe of 5 weeks window before and after moment repeating every 4 months, you may exceed that 10 week period by 3 weeks" (in other words, you're not exceeding is you do the first measurement at the begin of the window and the second at the end, a difference of 4 months + 10 weeks (over 6 months)). Now 13:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but when you say "only transport goods" that already skews the measurements that you might get 13:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: like this experiment with the 3 grass types 13:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> get a sloped area (from "wet" to "dry"), and drop each seed type separately, all give the same outcome of optimal growth. drop in all 3 seed types together, you get one grass type optimizing on "wet", the other on "dry" and the third in the middle. 13:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> a result you would never get from observing each one individually 13:51:14 <Rubidium> true, but isn't that one of the fallacies of science? 13:51:32 <Rubidium> you need to try *all* permutations of *everything* before you can conclusively say something? 13:51:42 <Pikka> so, given all that, does "affect towns as goods/candy does" in the cargo spec actually do anything? ;) 13:52:23 <Rubidium> well, towns in snowy areas need goods to grow (and I guess in toyland too) 13:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKA4w2O61Xo 13:52:35 <Rubidium> but that's specific to those towns 13:52:44 <Pikka> they need water and food 13:52:47 <Pikka> do they need goods? 13:53:13 <Pikka> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Substitute_type_and_multiplier_for_town_growth_.2818.2C_19.29 13:54:49 <Pikka> that says "affect towns as goods" used to affect subsidy generation, but doesn't any more. so does it do anything now? 13:55:23 <MTsPony> hey guys how do i change and KEEP a setting saved on a running server, so it writes it to openttd.cfg on exit? i use "setting" command to chsnge stuff but it wont last :( 13:55:30 <Rubidium> hmm, you're right 13:56:10 <Rubidium> MTsPony: setting_newgame + save_config? 13:56:24 <Rubidium> but that affects only new games 13:56:53 <MTsPony> thats ok. im just annoyed whenever i change a setting in a running game its lost on server exit or auto restart. 13:56:58 <Rubidium> regardless, a dedicated server might be configured to reread the configuration file upon restart trashing all local changes 13:57:25 <argoneus> how do I make my buses overtake? 13:57:28 <argoneus> there's a train of 4 buses 13:57:36 <argoneus> and they always move into the same station 13:57:41 <argoneus> even though they can choose another one 13:58:23 <Pikka> it's hard to tell without a screenshot, argoneus 13:58:57 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bHW5q/1e30b6c080.png 13:59:14 <argoneus> industrial park is my waiting station 13:59:25 <argoneus> and it has two stations, one in front of the depo and one where the tag is 13:59:40 <Pikka> those appear to be trams 13:59:43 <argoneus> yes 13:59:58 <argoneus> but trams can choose different paths, no? 14:00:19 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:56 <Pikka> yep. but they can't overtake, and they won't necessarily realise they need to go a different way if there's a big gap between the junction and the station. 14:01:12 <argoneus> what can I do then? :< 14:01:41 <argoneus> I just need them spread out 14:01:54 <Pikka> let them bunch up, or provide different routes 14:02:03 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:02:11 <Pikka> one way to at least seperate them into two groups would be to send them around the loop in opposite directions 14:02:36 <argoneus> hmm 14:03:10 <argoneus> by the way 14:03:13 <argoneus> buses overtake when needed? 14:03:37 <peter1138> path signals only, yes 14:03:45 <argoneus> path signals? 14:03:51 <Pikka> non-articulated, non-tram buses can overtake 14:04:04 <peter1138> special setting: "my_name_is_v453000_and_i_like_block_signals" yes 14:04:11 <Pikka> path signals are a different conversation :) 14:04:25 <peter1138> yeah i just got back in and read the scroll back :D 14:04:39 <argoneus> oh 14:06:19 <peter1138> Maximum map height: 15 14:06:38 <peter1138> What's that for? 14:07:15 <planetmaker> allow specifying other maximum heights? 14:07:21 <peter1138> Hmm 14:07:33 <peter1138> Maybe it would if the buttons weren't greyed out. 14:08:43 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-230-86-71-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:20 <Rubidium> peter1138: just change a specific constant in src/tile_type.h 14:11:46 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 14:11:50 <peter1138> If it's not ready I won't bother yet :) 14:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: i found most effective for end stations is a setup like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%204.%20Aug%201953_3.png like "SÃŒd" on the lower right 14:12:24 <argoneus> oh 14:12:25 <argoneus> I see 14:12:28 <argoneus> that looks neat 14:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> trams can choose equally likely whether they go left or right around 14:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so when the platform is already occupied, they choose the other one 14:12:52 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, you're not meant to knock down all the buildings 14:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but when they stand in my view... 14:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: but it works better when the trams are a full tile long, instead of a half tile 14:15:01 <argoneus> oh 14:15:06 <argoneus> I don't have any bigger trams yet 14:15:06 <argoneus> :< 14:15:28 <peter1138> Meh, I suppose I'll have to start using NewGRFs soon... 14:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause> with half-tile you tend to get two trams stuck together 14:22:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26889 /trunk/src/linkgraph (refresh.cpp refresh.h) (2014-09-21 14:22:32 UTC) 14:22:39 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Predict links for station-autorefitting vehicles 14:25:04 <keoz> I like block signals. They work perfectly fine. 14:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> whoo.. 14:27:23 <peter1138> Until you try to signal up a two-way station 14:27:50 <keoz> That's why I use path signals when I need path signals :) 14:28:00 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:06 <keoz> It introduces more variety in the game. Variety is nice :) 14:29:45 <keoz> I even have some sort of pervert pleasure still using pre-signals, sometime. 14:29:55 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, damn it, I just tried to scroll your screenshot :( 14:30:20 <argoneus> wait 14:30:23 <argoneus> the long tile trams 14:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i posted a giant screenshot of that game earlier (or, like 30 times in the past) 14:30:28 <argoneus> do they need more stations? 14:30:41 <argoneus> tram station tiles that is 14:30:53 <keoz> Nope. 14:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB) 14:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, it's a savegame made with a YACD version that only i ever had... 14:32:00 <peter1138> :) 14:32:04 <peter1138> YACD was nice... 14:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. there were some advantages and some disadvantages over cargodist 14:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the advantage was that it encouraged connecting remote industries, the disadvantage that you had to stick to that exact set of industries that was given at game start 14:33:38 <keoz> Never tried it. Cargo destinations where independent from served or unserved stations, isn't it ? 14:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which made it difficult to start out 14:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:34:14 <peter1138> connecting remote industries is a problem, really 14:34:21 <peter1138> it gives you way too much money 14:34:29 <peter1138> connecting the local industries is a harder game, i think 14:35:18 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> by "remote" i meant "somewhat deviant from your network", like on a hill 14:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> in cargodist, you can just ignore such industries 14:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and shove everything to the same factory 14:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that is especially terrible with goods and food, which have no actual purpose 14:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> connecting more destinations may diminish your income 14:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's discouraged with cargodist 14:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but YACD enforced that distribution, because it would increase the supply 14:39:27 <peter1138> ah, right, ok 14:39:39 <peter1138> yes, with cargodist i can send everything to an industry the other side of the map 14:40:06 <peter1138> but someone once said it would be relatively easy to make cargodist to behave like cargodest 14:40:09 <peter1138> not seen it though :S 14:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> we had an extensive discussion with fonso on the forum and he decided he wouldn't code it 14:42:03 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> afair one of the main problems was an efficient way to find "all suitible destinations" 14:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26890 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-21 14:45:35 UTC) 14:45:43 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: remove unneeded obfuscation via IConsoleSetSetting 14:46:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i would leave that to game scripts 14:46:50 <frosch123> there are too many opinions on how demand/supply should work 14:47:31 <peter1138> mostly because people seem to think they own the industries and cargo :p 14:54:34 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> one UI thing about train fever that's probably dangerous is that in the load savegame screen, the "delete" button is way closer to the savegame than the "start" button... 15:09:24 <keoz> Implicitely: You just deleted a savegame ? :p 15:13:12 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no 15:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think that i would every time i open that screen 15:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the game is great, but the UI is wrong on so many details 15:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> like half the common tasks need more clicks than they need because the button is on some remote location 15:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or the save game window doesn't remember the last name i gave it 15:21:06 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EBC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or after you close the save game window, it keeps focus, so your keypresses disappear somewhere, until you click on the map 15:22:12 <michi_cc> Yeah, the UI is.... Just compare the rail depot window with the road depot window. 15:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> or the snapping point distance for train stations is too large, train stations only snap to roads, not to rails, and the snapping distance for continuing the second track is too low, sometimes leaving tiny gaps in the rails 15:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also annoying: all the 4 corners have menus in them, so you can't map-edge-scroll diagonally 15:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how that can be resolved properly, though 15:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also: did anyone find a hotkey for pausing/unpausing? 15:25:10 <peter1138> f1 :D 15:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, no :p 15:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also annoying: clicking on the pause button again does not unpause 15:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's loads of missing features, like: "unload at the next station and then go to depot" 15:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "instantly drop all your cargo and go to depot" 15:28:29 <argoneus> what station width do you guys use? 15:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and, of course, planning mode for multiple sections of track 15:28:44 <Alberth> argoneus: 4-6 15:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: one track for each line 15:28:51 <argoneus> I mean 15:28:52 <argoneus> in settings 15:28:55 <argoneus> maximum width 15:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, you're talking about openttd :p 15:29:08 <argoneus> because when I have a bus station in the city linked to a train station 15:29:17 <argoneus> eventually I can't expand it 15:29:26 <argoneus> oh, what were you talking about? 15:29:36 <keoz> a new toy :) 15:29:47 <argoneus> that train fever thing? 15:30:02 * Alberth gives argoneus a cookie 15:30:10 <argoneus> I haven't played it 15:30:14 <argoneus> it sounds like some facebook game from the name 15:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it is very not a facebook game... 15:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure what a facebook game is, though 15:31:13 <argoneus> oh 15:31:15 <argoneus> is it actually good? 15:31:38 <argoneus> according to reviews it's very unpolished 15:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly the core mechanics of a facebook game is "annoy all people you know by repeatedly sending them invite links" 15:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> all the reviews are true, basically. doesn't mean it's not an addicting game with beatiful graphics 15:32:57 <argoneus> question 15:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> answer 15:33:09 <argoneus> 1, is there a way to refit to the proper engine when replacing train engines? 15:33:19 <b_jonas> maybe they'll improve the UI later 15:33:21 <argoneus> I remember replacing my diesel train with another diesel train 15:33:25 <argoneus> but it was refitted to fruit 15:33:30 <argoneus> even though it had 12 passenger wagons 15:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (again, why is there a silent "w" in "answer"?) 15:33:36 <argoneus> why.jpg 15:34:13 <argoneus> and 2, 15:34:22 <argoneus> if you have a, say, passenger network from A to B 15:34:29 <argoneus> and there is city C roughly between them 15:34:35 <argoneus> how do you connect it to this network? 15:34:50 <argoneus> and if you say "however you want" I am going to be sad :< 15:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: autoreplace refits to the same cargo that the original vehicle was carrying. if the original didn't carry any cargo, it can only use the default cargo 15:35:25 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the real question is why you didn't connect that city first? 15:36:29 <argoneus> no well 15:36:31 <argoneus> wait let me make picture 15:37:16 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bI2ti/4f6d3345c3.png 15:37:28 <argoneus> I was thinking 15:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and the answer is: either a line (A-C-B-C), or a triangle (A-B), (B-C), (C-A) 15:37:34 <argoneus> maybe add a station in the middle 15:37:40 <argoneus> like 15:38:02 <b_jonas> argoneus: is C smaller or larger than the others? 15:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also try two circles (A-B-C) and (A-C-B) 15:38:17 <b_jonas> probably smaller if you haven't yet connected it yet 15:38:34 <argoneus> http://puu.sh/bI2yQ/3081e1ad97.png 15:38:36 <argoneus> would this work? 15:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but at B you must have connected stations (and cargodist enabled) 15:39:27 <argoneus> yes I have cargodist 15:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> (or is that not a "B")? 15:39:42 <argoneus> B is outside the picture 15:39:43 <argoneus> at top right 15:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to tell with your "Sauklaue" 15:39:54 <argoneus> :< 15:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant that wiggly thing between the rectangle-ish-es 15:40:27 <argoneus> that's a station walking symbol 15:40:37 <argoneus> that I just devised 15:40:41 <argoneus> it's supposed to be a chain 15:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if those are the same station, it will work 15:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the mathematical concept behind that is a "Steiner-Tree" 15:42:02 <argoneus> oh 15:42:08 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:19 <argoneus> heh 15:42:25 <argoneus> I never thought about my stations as graphs 15:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> to connect 3 points in a graph, you not connect the 3 points by lines, but you introduce a 4th point, which you connect to the 3 others 15:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> which may or may not result in shorter connections 15:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> as in the overall length of track you lay down 15:43:00 <argoneus> oh by the way 15:43:04 <argoneus> if I have stations A - B - C 15:43:09 <argoneus> and my orders are A->B->C 15:43:17 <argoneus> is there a way to easily set "go back the same way"? 15:43:24 <argoneus> so it'll automatically go A->B->C->B->A 15:43:28 <argoneus> or do I have to do that manually 15:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you have to explicitly add those orders 15:43:44 <argoneus> ok :< 15:44:09 <Wolf01> if trains must travel through B to go from A to C, you could use implicit orders 15:44:33 <argoneus> but then they don't stop, do they? 15:44:43 <Wolf01> to make it simple: remove the "go non stop" 15:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> only when you say "go non-stop" 15:44:50 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has joined #openttd 15:45:04 <argoneus> ohh 15:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but it will avoid B if there is a way around 15:45:07 <Wolf01> and just put go to A, go to B 15:45:18 <argoneus> I'll just put it manually 15:45:21 <argoneus> with shared orders it's not hard anyway 15:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it usually gets fiddly with tram lines, which tend to have more stations 15:46:15 <argoneus> yeah 15:46:19 <argoneus> I'm still figuring how to make trams 15:46:23 <argoneus> with timetabling 15:46:25 <argoneus> and it's tedious 15:46:38 <argoneus> especially with half-tile trains 15:46:40 <argoneus> trams* 15:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it was even more tedious back when i did it, without the ctrl+click on start date 15:47:29 <peter1138> Hmm... I wonder if depot/station pickers should stay at the current zoom level. They're already quite big. 15:47:45 <argoneus> I wish there was a way to define road vehicle spread 15:47:52 <argoneus> like signal spread 15:47:54 <peter1138> argoneus, timetables 15:47:54 <argoneus> ;_; 15:47:59 <argoneus> yes 15:48:02 <argoneus> but timetables screw up really fast 15:48:04 <argoneus> for me at least 15:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> release the vehicles from depot one-by-one instead all at once 15:53:03 <argoneus> but when I already have a network 15:53:06 <argoneus> and I want to add one new station 15:53:12 <argoneus> then it's all fucked 15:53:13 <argoneus> :( 15:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. either you can estimate a time and set that manually, or you have to start filling from scratch 15:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but if your timetable doesn't have room for rebalancing at the end station, you're basically screwed 15:58:53 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:59:07 *** Japa [~Japa@123.63.216.13] has joined #openttd 15:59:14 <Pokka> it didn't like that much 15:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the technological jumps in train fever are a bit too large... like jumping from 50km/h to 100km/h 15:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the freight wagons should probably have half speed... 16:00:34 <Japa> Is the scenario format the same as the savegame format? 16:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe in the future there will be a stripped-down heightmap based format 16:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which may lose a bit of precision, but you gain the ability to switch newgrfs and stuff 16:03:10 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:01 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 16:04:48 <argoneus> guys 16:04:51 <b_jonas> is that game somehow related to tt? 16:04:53 <argoneus> when you timetable your vehicles 16:04:54 <peter1138> 2x picker sprites are giant :S 16:04:57 <argoneus> how long do you tell them to stay in depot? 16:04:58 <argoneus> er 16:05:00 <argoneus> in the main station 16:05:04 <argoneus> is 10 days short? 16:05:17 <peter1138> however long it takes them 16:05:25 <argoneus> well 16:05:27 <argoneus> I want to timetable them 16:05:33 <argoneus> and I need a way of catching up with latecomers 16:06:05 <argoneus> I'll make it like 1/4 of the total time I guess 16:06:07 <Japa> Yeah, I read about the heightmap thing, but development on that seems halted. 16:06:47 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__ 16:07:57 <Japa> By the looks of things, the easiest way to do what I want would be to modify Openttd itself to do it. 16:08:00 <FLHerne> b_jonas: It's pretty much the same gameplay concept, with much nicer graphics 16:08:57 <b_jonas> I see 16:09:14 <FLHerne> Or fancier ones, anyway 16:10:12 <FLHerne> The way they've managed to make track-laying work in real-3D is impressive, even if it's not very polished 16:12:27 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:04 <andythenorth> o/ 16:16:15 <Pikka> oh, there he is now 16:17:40 <andythenorth> Pikka chops 16:18:03 <Pikka> forum pm incoming 16:18:11 <andythenorth> Hmm I need real computer, this ipad thing no good 16:18:13 <Pikka> containing certain zellepins 16:18:15 <andythenorth> Biab 16:18:15 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:18:21 <Pikka> bye 16:19:33 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest404 16:19:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:38 <andythenorth> thatâs better 16:19:53 <andythenorth> if our future contains typing on glass, then Tim Cook & co need to make the glass move 16:19:57 <andythenorth> I hate it 16:19:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26891 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:19:52 UTC) 16:19:59 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add methods to retrieve flows from a FlowStatMap 16:20:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26892 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:20:14 UTC) 16:20:21 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Script API for retrieving planned flow 16:20:23 <andythenorth> awesome hover zellepin 16:20:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26893 /trunk/src (9 files in 6 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:20:48 UTC) 16:20:55 <DorpsGek> -Feature: ScriptStationList_Cargo for sorting cargo by from and via 16:20:58 <andythenorth> hover blimps 16:21:39 <Pikka> does it? 16:22:04 *** Guest404 [~andytheno@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26894 /trunk/src/script/api (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:25:15 UTC) 16:25:22 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Swap method for script lists 16:26:12 <argoneus> well 16:26:15 <argoneus> my trams are kinda separating now 16:26:18 <argoneus> but it takes a few months 16:26:20 <argoneus> to stabilise 16:26:27 <keoz> that's normal 16:26:29 <argoneus> if not a year or two 16:27:05 <peter1138> andythenorth, can you not use a bluetooth keyboard on theM? 16:27:16 <andythenorth> probably yes 16:27:21 <andythenorth> never thought of that 16:27:28 <keoz> problem with trams is that when they overtake each other, it's hard to reorder them properly 16:27:34 <andythenorth> what with the crippled OS, poor performance and tiny screen, I never get tablets 16:27:44 <andythenorth> afaict, theyâre for reading something on the web while you do a poo 16:28:00 <keoz> lol 16:28:01 <andythenorth> which is apparently what Steve Jobsâ main requirement was for the ipad 16:28:30 <keoz> I'm not a big fan too 16:28:41 <andythenorth> the touch angle is optimised for that specific position (donât believe me? try it - and compare to most android phones, which are optimised for standing up) 16:29:03 <keoz> Is there also a turkish toilet version ? 16:30:28 <Alberth> arguably that is the moment when people have the most time (sitting in trains, cars, buses, toilets, etc) 16:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: supposedly the tablet is meant to be lying on a table 16:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> or lieing? i can never tell 16:35:01 <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose I could fiddle with DrawPixelInfo :S 16:35:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: so this thing about all trucks being same speed 16:35:09 <andythenorth> and generations arriving at same time⊠16:35:15 * andythenorth considering it 16:36:34 <Pikka> I might chicken out and have it as a parameter. universal refit as default, "TTD style" one-truck-per-cargo[class] as an option. 16:36:43 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/double2.png < giant picker sprites 16:36:47 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.116.6] has joined #openttd 16:37:02 <argoneus> do you guys timetable trains too? 16:37:03 <Pikka> fancy, peter1138 16:37:05 <andythenorth> ho ho 16:37:10 * andythenorth likes 16:37:13 <argoneus> or is it not worth it for trains 16:37:21 <andythenorth> also small screen resolution 16:37:36 <peter1138> wondering if i should make the pickers "normal" size 16:37:46 <peter1138> andythenorth, better for screenshots 16:37:51 <andythenorth> is nice 16:38:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: got a patch? 16:38:16 <andythenorth> I can play with it when the kids are in bed 16:38:28 <andythenorth> itâs probably potato / potato 16:38:31 <Japa> FLHerne, what was that game you guys were talking about before? 16:38:32 <andythenorth> the big ones look ok 16:38:41 <andythenorth> but they donât match the tile size 16:38:52 <peter1138> argoneus, pretty much any feature is made for trains, and just happens to work with other things :p 16:38:58 <argoneus> oh 16:38:58 <argoneus> :D 16:39:13 <peter1138> andythenorth, well the viewport is zoomed out :p 16:39:26 <FLHerne> Japa: Train Fever? 16:39:30 <andythenorth> to the âcorrect sizeâ :P 16:39:48 <andythenorth> peter1138: that size picker will reveal some of the poor drawing in CHIPS 16:39:51 <andythenorth> so um...smaller? 16:39:52 <andythenorth> o_O 16:39:59 <peter1138> haha 16:40:05 <peter1138> hm, i should try it with zbase 16:40:25 <andythenorth> also why drive-in stops any more? 16:40:29 <andythenorth> letâs bin those 16:40:33 <peter1138> i still use them 16:40:37 <andythenorth> me too 16:40:42 <andythenorth> for hysterical reasons 16:40:47 <peter1138> as predicted, works fine with zbase 16:40:55 <peter1138> you get the high-res sprites, not pixelated 16:41:03 <andythenorth> ship it 16:41:07 <andythenorth> what could go wrong? 16:41:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26895 /trunk/bin/ai/regression (12 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:41:03 UTC) 16:41:10 <DorpsGek> -Change: Allow for multiple independent test cases for AI API regression 16:41:31 <peter1138> i tend to use drive-in stops as terminus stops 16:41:38 <peter1138> but then i'm not using newgrfs at the momenmt 16:41:54 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE 16:42:50 <Japa> FLHerne, THANKS 16:42:57 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The drive-in stops are good for places with long layovers (for timetable keeping-up purposes) 16:43:10 <andythenorth> Pikka: Iâm considering making all articulated Hog trucks same speed per-generation 16:43:22 <andythenorth> on any busy road, they will all travel at speed of slowest anyway 16:43:26 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Because they can be occupied by lots of vehicles, and none of them block each other 16:43:43 <andythenorth> FLHerne: drive-through has higher throughput 16:43:46 <andythenorth> coop swears it 16:44:05 <andythenorth> also introducing all trucks in same year for same reason of speed 16:44:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: They have better throughput, but less waiting capacity, and waiting vehicles obstruct the ones behind 16:44:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26896 /trunk/bin/ai/regression (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-21 16:44:37 UTC) 16:44:44 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Move AIStationList* tests to separate test case 16:45:09 <Pikka> introducing in the same year, or as near as possible with randomness, makes sense 16:45:21 <FLHerne> Which makes drive-in better for places timetabled for 5-day-odd waits to keep things reliably on time 16:45:33 <andythenorth> I donât like the auto-replace faff of all vehicles upgrading at once 16:45:43 <andythenorth> but otoh, the speed thing is relevant to gameplay 16:45:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26897 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/tst_stationlist (3 files) (2014-09-21 16:45:51 UTC) 16:45:58 <DorpsGek> -Change: Add some more AIStationList autotests 16:46:16 <Pikka> upgrade by group, then, or only when old. you don't *have* to replace everything ASAP 16:46:19 <fonsinchen> So, there you go. AI and GS API for cargodist. 16:46:19 <Pikka> player choice and all that. 16:46:25 <fonsinchen> If anything is missing, let me know. 16:46:39 <Pikka> thanks fonsinchen :D 16:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto28.png <-- that could have looked a bit better if the station snapped to existing rails :/ 16:50:26 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has quit [Quit: Ãéé spadlo to] 16:51:41 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:43 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:02 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:16 <peter1138> Hmm... £19.99 16:59:48 <peter1138> Linux native... oh no... 17:01:30 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:28 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 17:08:53 *** MJP_ [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:28 <andythenorth> meh 17:10:29 <andythenorth> roadtypes 17:10:47 * andythenorth puts that idea down 17:10:52 <andythenorth> wrong end of a poo-covered stick 17:22:07 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-103-91.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:22:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26898 trunk/bin/ai/regression/run.sh (2014-09-21 17:22:50 UTC) 17:22:57 <DorpsGek> -Fix: hopefully make regression under MinGW work again 17:27:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26899 /trunk/src (viewport.cpp viewport_func.h) (2014-09-21 17:27:37 UTC) 17:27:45 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: reduce the amount of tiles that needs to be drawn by taking the height of tiles into account instead of drawing way too many (ic111) 17:28:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26900 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-09-21 17:29:48 UTC) 17:29:55 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: dirty the appropriate area around map edges when terraforming there to prevent any artefacts from occuring (ic111) 17:31:08 *** Japa [~Japa@123.63.216.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26901 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-09-21 17:31:41 UTC) 17:31:48 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6120]: typo in string 17:33:01 <LordAro> Rubidium: there are some indent issues in r26900 17:35:09 <Rubidium> oh... crap 17:35:47 <Rubidium> uhmmm 17:36:02 <Rubidium> where? 17:36:23 <LordAro> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/19be2bfc8fdf#l83 17:36:44 <LordAro> well, 84 & 85, actually 17:37:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26902 trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp (2014-09-21 17:37:30 UTC) 17:37:37 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26900): erroneous spaces instead of tabs 17:46:02 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26903 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-09-21 17:45:52 UTC) 17:46:03 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:04 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 132 changes by Stabilitronas 17:46:05 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi 17:46:06 <DorpsGek> welsh - 5 changes by kazzie 17:52:27 <argoneus> huh 17:52:30 <argoneus> I am using 2cc trains 17:52:40 <argoneus> and I just realized that monorails (metro) can carry much more passengers than regular trains 17:52:42 <argoneus> is there a downside? 17:52:51 <argoneus> they don't seem to be that expensive compared to regular trains 17:53:53 <peter1138> they're slower, aren't they? 17:54:34 <andythenorth> limited track types? 17:54:38 * andythenorth doesnât know 17:55:11 <argoneus> oh yeah 17:55:13 <argoneus> they aren't the fastest 17:55:17 <argoneus> but does that matter? 17:55:48 <andythenorth> only over long distances 17:56:04 <andythenorth> over short distances (in cities), total capacity per tile is more important imho 18:01:49 <peter1138> yeah, total capacity and loading speed 18:01:54 <peter1138> which is kinda the point of metro trains 18:03:13 <andythenorth> thatâs how Iron Horse does it 18:03:18 <andythenorth> dunno about other sets 18:06:20 <argoneus> what the heck does this mean 18:06:25 <argoneus> "single unit metros cannot connect to anything" 18:06:29 <argoneus> that I'll have a metro without wagons..? 18:06:50 <peter1138> I guess it means they're single-unit. 18:07:00 <Pikka> and they cannot connect to anything... 18:07:04 <argoneus> does that mean they are a glorified tram? 18:07:08 <argoneus> I thought metros always had wagons 18:07:20 <Pikka> did you try it and see what happens? 18:07:26 <argoneus> I cannot add metro wagons 18:07:28 <argoneus> and it looks really weird 18:08:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26904 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h) (2014-09-21 18:07:54 UTC) 18:08:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix: account for the height level for showing the seen area in the viewport (ic111) 18:08:04 <Sylf> it must be a very early metro 18:08:10 <argoneus> 1929 18:08:20 <peter1138> Yeah, that'll do it. 18:13:38 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:22 <peter1138> hmm, i should be able to click on an implicit order to turn it into a real order 18:16:28 <peter1138> if only i knew how :p 18:20:19 <andythenorth> I should add some restrictions on what wagons can be added 18:20:19 <andythenorth> it always makes for such gameplay awesomeness 18:20:26 <peter1138> oh eys 18:20:30 <andythenorth> maybe on a dice roll 18:20:35 <peter1138> make it random 18:20:37 <peter1138> yes 18:20:38 <andythenorth> âno wagons can be added because youâre unluckyâ 18:25:23 <andythenorth> can I query the player face during vehicle cb 36? 18:25:32 * andythenorth considers adding restrictions for ugly faces 18:25:51 <andythenorth> âyour vehicles have reduced speed because of ugly face" 18:27:55 <frosch123> you can query the moonphase 18:28:26 <frosch123> river ships travel faster on full mon 18:29:11 <Sylf> yay wagon restriction BAD FEATURE :D 18:29:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26905 trunk/src/heightmap.cpp (2014-09-21 18:29:18 UTC) 18:29:26 <DorpsGek> -Change: account for the maximum map height when converting heightmaps 18:49:56 <andythenorth> also 18:50:16 <andythenorth> the freight trains in the brit roster of Iron Horse are unrealistically fast 18:50:23 <andythenorth> which I played in a few games and like 18:50:44 <andythenorth> the trucks in brit roster of Road Hog are realistically slow 18:50:59 <andythenorth> should I âbalanceâ them? :P 18:55:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:57:03 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has joined #openttd 18:57:21 <argoneus> I wish there was a "car adding" along with "car removal" 18:57:21 <argoneus> :( 18:57:26 <argoneus> especially for the different 2cc train lengths 18:57:35 <Pikka> slow roadvehicles and fast trains are are good 18:57:48 <Pikka> if you want to encourage people to use trains and not roadvehicles for longer distances 18:58:30 <peter1138> passengers should drop 18:58:40 <peter1138> as everyone uses private cars (which don't have to appear on the map) 19:01:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-103-91.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:03:20 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:04:02 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 19:05:20 <Pikka> implying "population" means something other than "passenger generation" in TTD... what should passengers drop relative to? :P 19:05:40 <peter1138> dunno... year? :p 19:08:38 <andythenorth> we have a monopoly on transport 19:08:48 <andythenorth> cars are banned 19:09:23 <andythenorth> also, do I want to encourage trains and not RVs for long distance? 19:09:33 <Pikka> yes 19:09:40 <Pikka> long distance road routes are boring 19:09:48 <andythenorth> oh yes 19:09:50 <andythenorth> I remember 19:10:00 <andythenorth> you have to have 1 million trucks 19:10:33 <peter1138> When do we get Network Rail? 19:13:44 <andythenorth> 2006? 19:13:51 <andythenorth> when do you want it? 19:35:13 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:32 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:08 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EBC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:13 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EBC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:59:26 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e428:e247:13a1:e867] has quit [Quit: .] 20:00:04 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has joined #openttd 20:13:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:13:44 <andythenorth> if Squid can manage 24 ships for 1870-2000, ranging from 20t to 1660t 20:13:58 <andythenorth> why does Road Hog need 42 trams, buses and trucks? 20:14:07 * andythenorth is puzzled 20:15:02 <planetmaker> because busses don't refit to cargo. Because trams tracks are not roads 20:15:03 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 20:15:25 <peter1138> and nobody uses ships 20:15:40 <andythenorth> does anybody use trucks? 20:15:48 <andythenorth> buses obviously, to keep town rating up 20:15:57 <peter1138> only the americans who call wagons trucks 20:16:00 <andythenorth> so that you can demolish enough stuff to build more maglevs 20:17:04 * andythenorth considers 20:17:11 <andythenorth> 3 generations of trucks might be pointless 20:17:13 <peter1138> large map 20:17:16 <peter1138> low towns 20:17:22 <peter1138> lots of water (60%+) 20:17:29 <peter1138> cargodist on 20:17:40 <peter1138> ships are sort of useful until planes 20:17:55 <andythenorth> also infinite capacity 20:18:00 <andythenorth> so good for cargo goal GS 20:18:05 <andythenorth> no contention 20:19:20 <peter1138> until that's fixed... 20:19:30 <andythenorth> :( 20:19:33 <andythenorth> nah 20:19:35 <andythenorth> never going to happen 20:19:38 <andythenorth> itâs like roadtypes 20:20:03 <peter1138> road types is kinda pointless though 20:20:31 <andythenorth> +0.8 20:20:44 <andythenorth> still think one extra type might have something in it 20:20:48 <andythenorth> Iâd use it for dirt roads 20:20:56 <andythenorth> and give giant trucks that canât go on highway 20:21:03 <andythenorth> could do them as trains though 20:21:12 <andythenorth> railtype 20:21:21 <andythenorth> seems to be the preferred solution 20:22:21 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:22:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:22:27 <argoneus> I wish actual subways were possible :( 20:22:36 <andythenorth> no you don't 20:22:48 <argoneus> i-if you say so 20:22:52 <andythenorth> itâs just a caffeine-induced halucination 20:23:06 <andythenorth> does anyone play past year 2000 anyway? 20:23:17 * andythenorth considers deleting some trucks 20:23:27 <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes 20:23:35 <andythenorth> no you don't 20:24:27 <planetmaker> lol 20:24:38 <peter1138> i do 20:24:56 <peter1138> current game is at 2143 20:24:58 <andythenorth> balls 20:25:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, actually... not past. I started later than 2000 :P 20:25:05 <andythenorth> Iâm not providing trucks until 2143 :P 20:25:29 <peter1138> i suppose i should maglev up the whole thing 20:25:30 <andythenorth> 1940s -> 1970s -> 1990s is too close for generations 20:25:31 <peter1138> but... roadsa 20:25:35 <peter1138> hover cars! 20:25:38 <andythenorth> yeah 20:25:41 <andythenorth> and hover horses 20:25:50 <andythenorth> roadgoing hoverzepellins 20:25:54 <peter1138> hover iron horses 20:25:57 * andythenorth wishes that patch had worked 20:26:08 <andythenorth> fr*sch gave me a patch for hovercraft on land 20:26:16 <andythenorth> tended to not avoid buildings 20:26:17 <argoneus> o wait what 20:26:19 <andythenorth> and then asserted 20:26:20 <argoneus> V453000 is czech 20:26:22 <argoneus> lel 20:26:32 <V453000> -> ? 20:26:37 <argoneus> why are there so many czechs in openttd 20:26:42 <andythenorth> is âczechâ a synonym for âunhinged' 20:26:51 <planetmaker> haha. You summoned the madness 20:26:51 * andythenorth finds it hard to judge, only got one data point 20:27:05 * andythenorth deletes a wookey 20:27:10 <argoneus> V453000: no I was just looking at http://puu.sh/bIpM3/0fcafd3b80.png 20:27:12 <argoneus> and 'mirin 20:27:28 <andythenorth> 1950s -> 1980s is perfectly soon enough for new trucks 20:27:30 <V453000> standard stuff :) 20:27:42 <argoneus> please tell me 20:27:46 <argoneus> how do you get rails so neatly into the city 20:27:53 <argoneus> do you raze the city or do you just build and wait for it to grow 20:27:56 <V453000> you spend a few days building it 20:27:58 <V453000> no 20:28:03 <V453000> you build tracks and fill roads to the rest 20:28:04 <V453000> done 20:28:13 <argoneus> wait 20:28:17 <argoneus> so you pre-build the city pretty much? 20:28:20 <argoneus> and then just add trains? 20:28:24 <V453000> basically 20:28:36 <V453000> I put roads, town grows there 20:28:43 <V453000> there is no real other way how to sanely grow a town 20:28:47 <V453000> you need to have control 20:28:51 <V453000> so you build everything 20:29:11 <argoneus> oh 20:29:16 <argoneus> but how do you start off? 20:29:22 <argoneus> right when the game begins, you can't really afford anything, can you 20:29:22 <FLHerne> argoneus: If you're feeling particularly control-freakish, you can forbid towns from building their own roads at all :P 20:29:24 <argoneus> to pre-build things 20:29:34 <argoneus> well 20:29:45 <argoneus> so far the worst thing I did was build vertical railways at one side of the city 20:29:48 <argoneus> so it would grow in the direction of my stations 20:30:00 <argoneus> but they seemed to dislike me 20:32:38 <argoneus> V453000: how do your first 3 years look like? you can't afford to pre-build anything and you need to make shitty stations, no? 20:32:59 *** FreeZeee [~FreeZeee@88.146.217.35] has quit [Quit: Ãéé spadlo to] 20:33:08 <V453000> money is irrelevant :) 20:33:12 <planetmaker> argoneus, you build a shitty money maker first and then you have no money issue to build whatever you want in whatever size 20:33:15 <planetmaker> Money is no issue 20:33:25 <peter1138> hmm, not sure about that, i only have £350,000,000 20:33:32 <planetmaker> :) 20:34:10 <peter1138> everything is too cheap :S 20:34:23 <peter1138> if only we knew how to fix that problem, heh 20:34:31 <argoneus> progressive taxing 20:34:44 <argoneus> all stations you make start belonging to an AI called "State" 20:34:48 <argoneus> after 5 years 20:36:29 <V453000> argoneus: you can start with almost any concept in a small scale with low amount of money early 20:36:30 <V453000> it is all the same 20:36:44 <V453000> what influences the speed of progress is just the costs or how much money you have 20:37:11 <V453000> I strongly believe that having high costs is simply dumb as it only makes the player wait, not make different decisions 20:37:28 <V453000> -> we even cheat money sometimes, or use planes to make money at the start of the game 20:37:50 <V453000> when I play with trains, NUTS is cheap, so you dont really need to wait for money ever 20:43:22 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EBC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:26 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:46:20 <argoneus> do you prefer nuts or 2cc? 20:46:23 <argoneus> if you've tried taht 20:46:31 <argoneus> I tried 2cc a few hours ago 20:46:37 <argoneus> and there's an overwhelming amount of trains, but most are utter shit 20:46:48 * Pikka guesses V453000 prefers NUTS 20:47:00 <argoneus> well 20:47:04 <argoneus> I thought he was referring to the coop games 20:47:23 <argoneus> also, this is potentially a dangerous and personal question 20:47:29 <argoneus> but how old are the people around here +-? 20:47:41 <V453000> "are you serious?" :D 20:47:58 <planetmaker> 25 +- 10? 20:48:26 <peter1138> planetmaker haha 20:48:27 <planetmaker> 1-sigma intervall. Maybe. Maybe totally wrong guess :P 20:48:45 <peter1138> Belugas will like that ;D 20:48:52 <argoneus> well 20:49:00 <argoneus> I'd like to think that a game about trains has the age around 16 20:49:07 <argoneus> but then again everyone here seems to have a degree in mathematics 20:49:10 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-116-30.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 20:49:22 <Pikka> bearing in mind that this particular game about trains is 20 years old :) 20:49:33 <peter1138> you've never seen a model railway club 20:49:59 <planetmaker> yeah, those have an interesting age characteristics, too 20:50:05 <FLHerne> argoneus: The fact that everyone here uses IRC is probably somewhat biasing things, too 20:50:13 <peter1138> Usually old, older and oldest. Plus their grandkids. 20:51:21 <FLHerne> 31A MRC has 10-18, then 60-8? 20:51:30 <FLHerne> Either in education, or retired 20:51:57 <FLHerne> Actually, there are a couple of 20-somethings, and Neil can't possibly be 60 20:52:29 <argoneus> so basically 20:52:33 <argoneus> every age plays this game 20:52:47 <argoneus> just like flight simulators and that kind of games 20:53:18 <argoneus> but really 20:53:25 <argoneus> just how large percentage of this community is czech people? 20:53:36 <argoneus> there's czech everything, stations, trains, vehicles, railroads, city names, scenarios, huh 20:53:53 * andythenorth does not have a degree in mathematics 20:53:54 <planetmaker> argoneus, there's XX everything for a shitload of countries 20:53:54 <andythenorth> not at all 20:54:56 <planetmaker> http://stats.openttd.org/usage_201408.html#TOPCTRYS <-- does that help, argoneus ? 20:55:11 <planetmaker> ignore the top3 entries 20:55:30 <argoneus> Commercial, huh.. 20:55:42 <argoneus> that's a lot of germans 20:56:39 <planetmaker> well, those basically pay the server :P 20:58:49 * andythenorth ponders 20:58:57 <andythenorth> how fast trucks and buses should be in 1920 20:59:13 <Pikka> unrealistically fast, IMO. 20:59:27 <Pikka> very slow road vehicles are boring. 20:59:39 <Supercheese> Is the U.S. lumped in with some other category, or do we really do, comparatively, that much less with OTTD? 20:59:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: I haz tram balancing problem 20:59:59 <andythenorth> trams are 35mph in 1920, or more 21:00:00 <Sylf> we don't use .us for our home connections 21:00:10 <andythenorth> trucks and buses are 35mph also 21:00:14 * andythenorth wonders what the problem is 21:00:14 <planetmaker> Supercheese, those country designations are by the address connecting to it, probably by DNS suffix. So it will be mixed in .com likely 21:00:16 <Sylf> so we're part of .com and .net and such 21:00:17 <planetmaker> and .net and .org 21:00:21 <planetmaker> yeah 21:00:24 <Supercheese> ah by .tld 21:00:34 <Supercheese> hmm 21:00:35 <planetmaker> it's not a decent geolocation thing behind those stats 21:01:08 * Rubidium wonders which country has the highest per capita 21:01:18 <planetmaker> Rubidium, probably Netherlands ;) 21:01:30 * Pikka has trams are fast, high-capacity and expensive, buses are slow, high-capacity and cheap, coaches are fast and low-capacity. no realisms allowed. 21:01:51 <andythenorth> thinking same 21:02:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC6679A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> aaaand it did it again... 21:04:35 <andythenorth> Pikka: Iâm down to 3 generations of bus / truck 21:04:42 <andythenorth> 35mph / 60mph / 85mph 21:04:48 <andythenorth> 1930s, 1950s, 1980s 21:04:52 <andythenorth> no futurisms here 21:05:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's that in real units? 21:05:06 <andythenorth> yes 21:05:17 <Pikka> those are some fast buses and trucks 21:05:30 <andythenorth> 35mph is 15m/s 21:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> but trucks are never allowed to go more than 90 km/h 21:05:52 <andythenorth> 'allowed' 21:05:54 <andythenorth> :) 21:06:09 <andythenorth> you should have tried a UK motorway in about 1987 21:06:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6679A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:25 <andythenorth> other Eddi has gone 21:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that will show 100 on your meter when you drive along them, because yours is off by 5-10% 21:06:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 21:06:39 <planetmaker> nah, Estonia has twice the number of hits on OpenTTD pages compared to Netherlands :) 21:06:59 <andythenorth> UK trucks are limited to about 55mph now 21:07:04 <andythenorth> before the limiters.... 21:07:07 <andythenorth> anything went 21:07:08 <Pikka> 35 to 60 is a big jump 21:07:16 <andythenorth> as long as you had the hp and didnât get caught 21:07:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: considering 40-55-70 21:07:43 * Pikka has 5 generations of trucks. 40/45/50/60/65 mph, 1910 to 2036. 21:08:08 <andythenorth> I am trying to delete some 21:08:11 <andythenorth> 3 is plenty 21:08:13 <Pikka> buses go from 40 to 60, coaches from 55 to 70, and trams from 30 to 70. 21:08:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's not the Netherlands ;) 21:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm not involved in this in any way, but truck drivers' employers here must keep their speed recordings for about 2 years, for the police to check 21:08:34 <andythenorth> I am assuming all drivers are on amphetamine, and their bosses pay the fines 21:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they also check waiting times and stuff 21:08:48 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes... at least Estonia 21:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> bosses never pay fines 21:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always the driver who pays fines 21:11:03 <Rubidium> I got: Estonia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, 'US'-ish (everything .com, .net and unknown together), Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, Norway (last two are pretty close), Denmark, Germany, Austria, Poland 21:11:20 <Rubidium> (based on hits) 21:11:47 <Supercheese> Oh good grief more strings added 21:11:58 <peter1138> That's ok, latin's a dead language. 21:12:01 <Rubidium> if I'd remove unknown from 'US'-ish, then it's be below Norway 21:12:17 <planetmaker> yeah 21:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what are you measuring? 21:12:43 <Rubidium> hits per capita 21:12:45 <andythenorth> bah 21:12:51 <andythenorth> there arenât enough RV sets around 21:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you geoip them? 21:13:11 <andythenorth> playing with other peopleâs labour of love shows me what I dislike about them 21:13:23 <andythenorth> Pikka: when is TruckApples coming? 21:13:34 <peter1138> what's a good tram set? 21:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> germanrv 21:13:54 <planetmaker> dutch 21:14:02 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:14:02 <planetmaker> or japanese 21:14:07 <Pikka> I don't know, andy. Since I've done the hoverzellepins, should I switch to trucks now rather than continue with boots? 21:14:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:14:23 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not on bananas? 21:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no 21:14:38 <peter1138> well that's useless then :S 21:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i've complained multiple times 21:14:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: nah boots :) 21:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and never got a straight answer on why... 21:14:56 <andythenorth> more boots 21:15:01 <peter1138> is it an mb thing? 21:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> almost 21:15:09 <andythenorth> then you can put out PineBoots 21:15:14 <andythenorth> and I can put out Squid 1.0.0 21:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Uwe is as close as MB as you're gonna get :) 21:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it should theoretically be found via grfcrawler 21:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and the link was mentioned earlier today 21:16:23 <peter1138> don't see japanese trams on bananas either 21:16:30 <peter1138> i cba with manually installing things 21:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> are those the hiroshima trams? 21:16:42 <peter1138> people i play with are noobs anyway 21:16:45 <planetmaker> japanese? yeah 21:17:09 <planetmaker> peter1138, if you want to do freigth with trams, there's no way around heqs 21:17:10 <peter1138> Av9.8? :S 21:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there was talk about a UK tram set, but i don't know if that was ever a thing 21:17:52 <peter1138> BATS? 21:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that 21:18:31 <Supercheese> BATS has... issues 21:18:42 <Supercheese> loading speeds for one are horribly broken 21:18:51 <andythenorth> some of the sprites are being borrowed for Road Hog 21:18:53 <Pikka> Av9.8 isn't a tram set, peter1138 21:19:08 <andythenorth> itâs better than a tram set 21:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> flying trams? 21:19:14 <andythenorth> have you deleted any more planes from it? 21:19:22 <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause: no, Airbuses 21:19:50 <Pikka> it's down to 12 from the 60+ in Av8, I think I've probably removed enough. 21:20:10 <andythenorth> I fricking love AV9.8 21:20:15 <andythenorth> no tedious vehicle choices 21:20:29 <andythenorth> âchoosing vehiclesâ is seriously over-rated 21:20:40 <Pikka> yep 21:21:19 <Supercheese> done applying the Saint Exupéry expunge, eh? 21:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you're certainly climbing on the open-ended V-scale of opposing opinions :p 21:23:01 <Pikka> speaking of av9.8 21:23:06 <Pikka> I must fly 21:23:09 <Pikka> toodle pip 21:23:17 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:01 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "saint-exupéry" is the austerity of engineering. like in politics, austerity is not always the best way to approach a problem 21:25:32 <Supercheese> Well, software engineering philosophy swings as a pendulum do... 21:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes when something exists that doesn't seem to have a purpose, it may a) have a purpose that you didn't find yet, or b) needs a purpose created for it 21:25:45 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: sometimes when something exists that doesn't seem to have a purpose, it may a) have a purpose that you didn't find yet, or b) needs a purpose created for it 21:26:37 * andythenorth_ considers upgrading states by date 21:26:52 <andythenorth_> stats * 21:27:10 <Supercheese> à la HEQS forklifts et al.? 21:27:38 <peter1138> andythenorth_, not possible 21:27:48 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't check the BAD FEATURES thread in a while? 21:27:54 <peter1138> well, build date... yuck :p 21:28:05 <Supercheese> the BAD FEATURES thread is a BAD FORUM FEATURE 21:28:06 <peter1138> i gave you 65535 IDs to play with D: 21:28:17 <andythenorth_> yair 21:28:28 <peter1138> and then you all end up deciding that no choice is better 21:28:31 <andythenorth_> well 21:28:33 <andythenorth_> yes 21:28:34 <Supercheese> thankfully, the Ignore User function is a GOOD FEATURE and helps 21:28:59 <andythenorth_> although Iron Horse will end up using all the <16k IDs that are eligible for articulated vehicles 21:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm sorry i didn't max that out yet :p 21:29:14 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: you must be close to the 16k? 21:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, about 3k or so 21:29:47 <andythenorth_> also apropos of âneeds a purposeâ âŠ. GS that rewards the most diverse use of vehicles? 21:30:02 <peter1138> metro rail can't have level crossings huh 21:30:06 <andythenorth_> use every available vehicle, profitably 21:30:19 <andythenorth_> peter1138: if youâre using FooBarâs grf, thereâs a parameter 21:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: most metro systems try to avoid them 21:30:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1915E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:58 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> testlink-beta.oftc.net quits: Hazzard, frosch123, andythenorth, oskari89 21:30:58 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 21:31:31 <argoneus> can anyone explain 21:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no 21:31:36 <andythenorth> I am +1 to no crossings on metros, stops the town building roads that get my buses destroyed by trains 21:31:39 <planetmaker> g'night 21:31:40 <argoneus> o-okay 21:32:28 <peter1138> pretty sure you can stop towns building level crossings completely anyway 21:32:33 <andythenorth> :o 21:32:52 <andythenorth> oh yes 21:32:56 <peter1138> environment -> towns -> towns are allowed to build level crossings 21:32:56 <andythenorth> how rare 21:32:59 <argoneus> in nuts 21:33:08 <argoneus> how do I upgrade from railway to monorail using purrs? 21:33:18 <Supercheese> convert tool I presume 21:33:20 <argoneus> do I need to replace all my tracks, then make new depots, and then replace them again? 21:33:40 <Supercheese> fairly certain you can get away with just depots, send all trains to depot 21:33:43 <planetmaker> maybe there's universal rail 21:33:45 <Supercheese> convert depot to purr 21:33:54 <Supercheese> convert all tracks to new type, don't need to purr them 21:34:04 <Supercheese> then convert trains and send them off 21:36:56 <andythenorth> hmm 21:37:10 <andythenorth> Road Hog buy menu doesnât look so bad when split by tram / truck 21:37:30 <planetmaker> told ya ;) 21:38:26 <andythenorth> maybe I donât delete anything yet 21:38:53 <andythenorth> 35 years is a long time in game between vehicle generations 21:40:47 <argoneus> wow what the fuck 21:40:51 <argoneus> I don't understand NUTS 21:40:59 <argoneus> can anyone explain what the numbers mean, 1/2/3? 21:41:05 <argoneus> next to the engines 21:41:12 <Supercheese> Generations...? 21:41:15 <Supercheese> Gen1, Gen2 21:41:21 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki 21:41:22 <Supercheese> just a guess; I don't use NUTS 21:41:27 <Supercheese> there ya go, docs 21:41:54 <argoneus> yeah, I am reading that 21:41:58 <argoneus> but I have 3 BASIC engines 21:42:00 <argoneus> 1, 2, and 3 21:42:03 <argoneus> but there's no BASIC in the picture 21:43:52 *** ATS63 [~peterh@2407:500::2:981d:d5e9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:55 *** ATS63 [~peterh@2407:500::2:981d:d5e9] has joined #openttd 21:45:01 *** Netsplit over, joins: frosch123 21:50:15 <Sylf> they're just generations 21:50:30 <Sylf> 1st gen primitive engine, 2nd etc 21:51:41 <argoneus> oh 21:52:07 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:52:14 <peter1138> Meh 21:52:19 <peter1138> MB, please put your stuff on bananas :S 21:52:59 <Sylf> that would be too good 21:53:28 <argoneus> isn't this wrong? " I personally recommend to set the servicing interval for trains to days (off in percents) and setting the servicing interval value to 5 days. This makes sure that your trains will want to service just when you tell them to (given that 5 days passed since last autoreplace, but that is very short time in the game)." 21:53:35 <argoneus> won't that mean they go to depot every time they can? 21:53:59 <Sylf> you have to take that in context 21:54:12 <andythenorth> should be RV speed limits in towns :P 21:54:13 <Sylf> the author assumes you're playing with breakdowns off 21:54:21 <peter1138> andythenorth, patch it 21:54:23 <Sylf> and servicing is off too 21:54:29 <argoneus> wait 21:54:34 <Supercheese> should be A Patch for That⢠somewhere 21:54:35 <argoneus> so if breakdowns are off, vehicles don't service? 21:54:38 <andythenorth> peter1138: does it need a bit? 21:54:44 <Supercheese> argoneus: there's a separate setting for that 21:54:45 <andythenorth> or is it just a tile check? 21:54:48 <Sylf> that's an option, argoneus 21:54:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, nfi 21:54:56 <andythenorth> thereâs a bit for city roads already? 21:55:03 <andythenorth> shows the fancy trees and crap 21:55:05 <argoneus> ohh, I see 21:55:12 <argoneus> and autoreplacing vehicles makes vehicles go maintenance? 21:55:14 <peter1138> andythenorth, there's an owner, dunno if that's stored on the map 21:55:19 <andythenorth> also itâs probably a terrible idea :P 21:55:30 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, cos small towns 21:55:36 <__ln__> is this safe: http://www.depers.nl/UserFiles/Image/2010/201007/20100727/ANP-13457467.jpg 21:55:40 <Supercheese> "Disable maintenance when breakdowns are set to none", and yes autoreplace sends to depot 21:55:41 <andythenorth> also realism 21:55:47 <andythenorth> also explaining 21:55:54 <argoneus> ahh I see 21:55:54 <argoneus> thanks 21:55:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, check the town radius and be done 21:55:56 <peter1138> no 21:56:16 <Supercheese> __ln__: he'll get a parking ticket, that's not a valid parking spot 21:56:26 <andythenorth> airport town stuff is _never_ annoying :P 21:56:44 <Supercheese> my local university makes nearly 0,000 a year in parking tickets, so the school paper claims 21:56:53 <Supercheese> how that makes sense, I know not 21:56:58 <andythenorth> whatâs the opposite of speedy? 21:57:01 <andythenorth> tardy? 21:57:03 <Supercheese> lentus 21:57:04 <andythenorth> sluggish? 21:57:16 <argoneus> oh nice 21:57:22 <argoneus> with CHIPS you can design your stations however you want 21:57:26 <argoneus> that's neat 21:57:36 <andythenorth> yay, a satisfied customer 21:57:40 <Sylf> :D 21:57:43 <argoneus> seems tedious though 21:57:47 <argoneus> sometimes I just like want to make station 21:57:48 <argoneus> :( 21:57:49 <andythenorth> it never lasts :( 21:57:53 <Supercheese> CHIPS is indeed neat, but there are other sets out there that act similarly 21:58:14 <andythenorth> argoneus: mostly I just pick the type of platform I want and build those 21:58:15 <Supercheese> although none match FIRS industries as perfectly, of course 21:58:29 <andythenorth> I donât use the extra tiles except for station walking 21:58:39 <Supercheese> I'll use CHIPS blank tiles for eyecandy at times 21:58:39 <argoneus> Supercheese: IRS? 21:58:52 <Supercheese> yes, I hear they're done by the same bloke ;) 21:59:01 <andythenorth> hmm 21:59:09 <andythenorth> I could just allow all RVs to go 80mph 21:59:10 <Supercheese> well, FIRS, not your typo 21:59:17 <Supercheese> if andy was responsible for the IRS..... ...... 21:59:32 <andythenorth> but low powered vehicles would never reach top speed 21:59:33 <Sylf> still better than the current IRS 21:59:34 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE? 21:59:47 <argoneus> um 21:59:54 <argoneus> are there any nice looking railroads that go well with NUTS? 21:59:59 <argoneus> I'm sorry if this is a dumb question 22:00:12 <Sylf> NUTS already has PURR built in 22:00:12 <Supercheese> don't you have the set that has PURR already? 22:00:12 <argoneus> but NUTS has some specific railroad types, right 22:00:16 <peter1138> good night 22:00:16 <argoneus> yes 22:00:19 <Sylf> but any rails can look nice too 22:00:19 <argoneus> but the normal railroad 22:00:20 <argoneus> looks normal 22:00:23 <Sylf> swedish reals, CS rails 22:00:24 <Supercheese> oh it is integral nevermind 22:00:29 <argoneus> oh 22:00:31 <argoneus> I can install any rails 22:00:34 <argoneus> and it won't mess up PURRs? 22:00:38 <Sylf> no 22:00:48 <Supercheese> NuTracks will complain about slots, but can be made to play nice 22:00:52 <andythenorth> why is âmax TEâ and âmax reliabilityâ but just âspeedâ ? 22:00:54 <andythenorth> in buy menu 22:01:02 <Supercheese> Hysterical raisins perhaps 22:01:10 <andythenorth> yair 22:01:14 <andythenorth> speed is not constant 22:01:23 <andythenorth> oh power was never a thing 22:01:23 <Sylf> Oh. 22:01:30 <andythenorth> RVs used to have minimal physics 22:01:37 <Sylf> I thought vehicles went from 0 to 200km/h in an instant. 22:01:52 <Sylf> Just like how they do the opposite at red lights in openttd 22:02:20 <andythenorth> antonym for âspeedyâ: âplodding' 22:02:28 * andythenorth writes code 22:06:47 <argoneus> uhhhh 22:06:51 <argoneus> I was just reading the wiki 22:06:58 <argoneus> and now I feel bad for asking V453etc what his favourite train set is 22:07:06 <argoneus> ;_; 22:07:26 <V453000> ETC :D 22:07:27 <V453000> ... 22:07:36 <Sylf> :P 22:07:37 *** Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard 22:07:52 <argoneus> V453000: I didn't want to ping you 22:08:01 <argoneus> didn't know you were monitoring 22:08:47 <argoneus> what is this? http://blog.openttdcoop.org/files/blog/V453000/ABR07_intro.png 22:08:55 <argoneus> the cool ground around the industry 22:09:02 <V453000> isr 22:09:04 <V453000> stations 22:09:06 <argoneus> oh 22:09:18 <Sylf> with lots of canal tiles 22:10:30 <argoneus> and this http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/d/dd/PSG283.png 22:10:36 <argoneus> are those PURRs or can you color monorails? 22:10:47 <Sylf> those are PURR 22:10:53 <argoneus> I'm seeing so many things I have never seen right now 22:11:10 <andythenorth> bed 22:11:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:12:40 <V453000> argoneus: how about some yetis http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti 22:12:52 <Sylf> V, which industry closed on you in yeti? 22:13:02 <argoneus> do I smell advertising 22:13:04 <V453000> plantation and cowpig farm 22:13:05 * argoneus sniff sniff 22:14:00 <argoneus> wait 22:14:05 <argoneus> is that actual ingame graphics? 22:14:18 <argoneus> i-it's not, right? 22:14:21 <V453000> only one way to find out 22:14:22 <V453000> is 22:14:25 *** argoneus [~oftc-webi@ip-89-102-27-91.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:14:33 *** argoneus [~oftc-webi@ip-89-102-27-91.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:14:35 <argoneus> closed the wrong tab 22:14:58 <V453000> just get yeti from bananas and see for yourself if it is ingame or not :) 22:15:07 <argoneus> are you a graphic designer? 22:15:08 <argoneus> or what is your major 22:15:28 <V453000> I usually answer this with "I make pictures" 22:15:33 <V453000> but official thing is 3D artist yes 22:15:54 <argoneus> oh, nice 22:16:32 <argoneus> er 22:16:41 <argoneus> I guess ISR and FIRS don't work with yeti? 22:16:52 <V453000> firs not that is industries 22:16:59 <V453000> you cant have 2 industry sets together 22:17:03 <argoneus> and ISR? 22:17:03 <V453000> isr is stations, those sure do 22:17:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01d6f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:17:25 <Supercheese> will be heavily pixelated in comparison, of course 22:17:38 <Supercheese> at any higher zoom 22:17:38 <argoneus> huh 22:17:59 <argoneus> how does one install this 22:18:00 <Supercheese> There is an acute lack of 32bpp stations; NML does not support stations... 22:18:18 <Sylf> just like how you installed ISR or FIRS or CHIPS 22:18:26 <argoneus> via content download :< 22:18:30 <Sylf> yes 22:18:36 <Sylf> YETI should be available 22:18:41 <argoneus> oh 22:18:48 <argoneus> I got the .tar.gz 22:18:51 <argoneus> with a strange file 22:19:19 <Sylf> you can install it too, if it's the wring tar.gz, but using the content downloader is easire and nicer 22:19:57 <argoneus> I suppose I should use zbase with this? 22:20:16 <Sylf> it's up to you. 22:20:16 <V453000> oh god no 22:20:27 <Sylf> I can't stand zbase ever, so I never use it. 22:20:41 <argoneus> I have all these cute industries 22:20:42 <V453000> there is nothing graphically worse than zbase 22:20:44 <argoneus> and then pixels everywhere 22:20:47 <argoneus> :( 22:21:03 <V453000> just dont mind it :) 22:21:18 <argoneus> do you somehow 22:21:21 <argoneus> render 3d into 2d? 22:21:23 <V453000> in other words, if you load zbase, ther wont be any extra details 22:21:30 <V453000> uhm? 22:21:37 <Supercheese> what ELSE would he do?? 22:21:39 <V453000> every render is 2D image? :D 22:21:47 <argoneus> er 22:21:47 <Supercheese> paint it by hand? 22:21:59 <argoneus> fair point 22:22:09 <argoneus> I meant that you can't see the industry from the other side in the game 22:22:12 <argoneus> but you can in 3ds max or w/e 22:22:13 <argoneus> :< 22:22:20 <Supercheese> yeah, OTTD limitation 22:22:24 <Sylf> meh. openttd thinks cowpig farm is a mine when naming a station... 22:22:37 <V453000> yes because openttd loads the sprites, not 3D model 22:22:44 <Supercheese> should just name stations directly after the industry name 22:22:44 <argoneus> so it's 2.5D 22:23:00 <V453000> it is 2D. 22:23:03 <Sylf> it's 2d 22:23:07 <Sylf> with 3d rendered sprites 22:23:34 <V453000> you could have 837D software but you would still output 2D sprites for OpenTTD 22:24:17 <Sylf> time travel and parallel world processing to render yeti? 22:25:58 <argoneus> V453000: what is your software of choice? 22:26:03 <argoneus> for 3D graphics 22:26:06 <V453000> 3ds max 22:26:15 <argoneus> I never got into that :( 22:26:20 <argoneus> 2manyviewports4me 22:26:22 <argoneus> 2manyhotkeys 22:26:32 <V453000> with one hotkey you can make 1 viewport 22:26:33 <argoneus> it's like photoshop but not retard proof 22:26:38 <V453000> you dont have to use any hotkeys :) 22:27:17 <Supercheese> I agree the 3ds max user interface is... challenging 22:27:28 <argoneus> my face when YETI actually lags my game 22:27:29 <argoneus> slightly 22:27:34 <Supercheese> I'm sure it's nice when you know what you 22:27:36 <Supercheese> are doing 22:27:49 <argoneus> V453000: where did you study if I may ask? 22:27:51 <argoneus> which uni 22:28:03 <V453000> I didnt :) 22:28:08 <argoneus> oh 22:28:17 <argoneus> I asked what major you had and you said 3D graphics 22:28:17 <argoneus> :< 22:28:17 <V453000> Supercheese: blender is faaaar worse if you are trying to switch from other programs usually :P 22:28:21 <Supercheese> 2cool4school 22:28:28 <V453000> major / job? 22:28:32 <V453000> :P 22:28:42 <argoneus> why not both 22:28:44 <argoneus> :D 22:29:01 <V453000> because czech schools are useless at that 22:29:13 <V453000> waste of time for a paper 22:30:03 <argoneus> oi 22:30:17 <argoneus> at 3d art or at being unis altogether? 22:30:31 <V453000> at any kind of graphics probably 22:30:51 <argoneus> isn't there a computer graphics at CVUT somewhere 22:31:00 <argoneus> course* 22:31:06 <Supercheese> blender is terrible too 22:31:08 <argoneus> er, I mean CTU 22:31:10 <V453000> sure, 3 years programming, then like 20 hours of learning 3D interface 22:31:22 <V453000> well spent 5 years :P 22:31:24 <argoneus> :< 22:31:27 <argoneus> well 22:31:32 <argoneus> I went to study software engineering 22:31:34 <Supercheese> the only 3D modeling program I can use is SolidWorks... :P 22:31:37 <argoneus> and so far most what I did was math and logic 22:31:48 <argoneus> which is totally useful, but I didn't find a use for it yet 22:32:03 <argoneus> I'm still waiting, it will come 22:32:33 <argoneus> I dunno 22:32:58 <V453000> well, I am quite convinced that me learning things by doing things, reading books and video tutorials from good sources, is a lot more constructive than going to school 22:33:00 <argoneus> I view uni as a sort of fail-safe to get a job, and it teaches you to be self sufficient and learn 22:33:11 <V453000> not to mention that my love to school is so huge that I would not be able to finish it regardless 22:33:16 <argoneus> haha 22:34:53 <V453000> all the administration bullshit, spending infinite amount of time trying to figure out which subject I need to have in which semester etc, which is ULTRA messy on almost every czech university, idk if in the world it is similar 22:36:07 <argoneus> hm 22:36:12 <argoneus> I'm not having that problem so far 22:36:23 <argoneus> I just go by the "recommended courses per semester" 22:36:24 <V453000> could be just our wunderbar country 22:36:30 <argoneus> (I study at CVUT) 22:36:39 <argoneus> (I'm also czech) 22:36:39 <V453000> ah cvut 22:36:46 <V453000> cvut might be a bit better yes 22:36:52 <argoneus> it's funny 22:36:56 <V453000> I was at TUL in Liberec and Muni in Brno 22:37:00 <argoneus> it's supposed to be IT-oriented 22:37:02 <V453000> cant decide where was bigger mess 22:37:03 <argoneus> (FIT CVUT) 22:37:07 <argoneus> but the website and the web apps are shit 22:37:38 <V453000> Muni had everything working properly, but there was so much of everything, that you couldnt orientate in it for shit 22:37:54 <argoneus> oh 22:37:59 <V453000> and then TUL, nothing works, everything is mess, nobody knows, teachers dont know, e-system doesnt know 22:38:01 <argoneus> well, I am not familiar with other unis 22:38:08 <argoneus> only VSE in prague 22:38:14 <argoneus> and that's kinda casual 22:38:29 <V453000> right 22:38:38 <argoneus> or maybe I am just biased 22:38:47 <V453000> well I am not saying universities are a bad idea, but just for my job it is not very useful 22:38:50 <argoneus> but I know that from everyone I know, the dumb people and the people that didn't want to work, they went to VSE 22:39:07 <V453000> I totally understand that anybody with technical or other specialization needs a college degree 22:39:14 <V453000> :D 22:39:19 <argoneus> also 22:39:23 <argoneus> for some reason we frown at art students 22:39:30 <argoneus> so at least I can't frown at you 22:39:31 <argoneus> :D 22:39:36 <V453000> :) 22:39:43 <argoneus> I guess it's because 22:39:49 <argoneus> there's not that much to art at an academic level? 22:39:55 <argoneus> as in, you have to figure out most things yourself? 22:39:58 <argoneus> not sure 22:40:01 <V453000> not exactly 22:40:15 <V453000> vast majority of e.g. drawing must be learned 22:40:25 <V453000> of course you have to do it yourself but you do need a lot of theory etc 22:40:35 <argoneus> i always thought drawing was 99% practice 1% theory 22:40:51 <V453000> the problem in cz is that artists are """artists""" everything has to be super very mega "artistic" 22:41:02 <argoneus> oh I know what you mean 22:41:09 <argoneus> "it looks too bland, it must be artistic!" 22:41:13 <argoneus> ffff 22:41:49 <V453000> well yeah something along those lines 22:42:15 <V453000> if it is broken, declare it art 22:42:23 <argoneus> like that library that was supposed to look like a snot 22:42:41 <V453000> my colleague at work once completely fucked up camera animation and had the main animating building hidden behind a tree during the time of animation 22:43:01 <V453000> justified with "the best artists can hide content as mystery" 22:43:03 <V453000> gg 22:43:07 <argoneus> oh dear 22:43:12 <argoneus> I kind of envy you in a way 22:43:18 <argoneus> you already do what you like and get better at it 22:43:27 <argoneus> I still need to get tons of things punched into my head 22:43:33 <argoneus> even though I might not ever need most of it 22:43:50 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@58.108.147.5] has joined #openttd 22:43:53 <V453000> well, in your case you probably have a clear goal like finishing school 22:43:56 <V453000> which for me doesnt exist 22:43:58 <V453000> it never ends 22:44:08 <V453000> take it this way? :p 22:44:30 <Pikkaphone> this is the song which never ends... 22:44:36 <argoneus> well, I suppose 22:44:40 <argoneus> but school is kind of.. duh 22:44:44 <argoneus> I don't really like the academics that much 22:44:51 <argoneus> I mean, I work part time along with school 22:45:02 <V453000> sure, yes 22:45:09 <Pikkaphone> hmm, I'm actually not on the wifi... I'll probably get disconnected when I connect. 22:45:14 <argoneus> and at work I can just get up and get something to drink or eat whenever I want, no one pretends to be superior to me, no one tries to tell me how bad my work is and how I'll get a bad grade 22:45:28 <argoneus> at school I just need to listen to one guy who thinks his course is the most important thing in the world 22:45:36 <argoneus> or even worse, he himself thinks it's stupid and makes jokes about it 22:45:36 <V453000> for example, I work as 3D person in a building project company ... the engineers just make a degree and then do the same thing for 30 years, then die 22:46:02 <V453000> lol 22:46:41 <argoneus> by the way 22:46:47 <Pikkaphone> argoneus:if people care more about what you do at school than at work. .. I'm not sure which is worse. :) 22:46:52 <argoneus> do you need to be able to draw to do proper 3d graphics? 22:47:00 <V453000> yes and no 22:47:04 <argoneus> I mean 22:47:11 <V453000> you dont need to be able to draw to simply create stuff 22:47:17 <argoneus> drawing is a lot about understanding perspective, shading, shapes, etc 22:47:20 <V453000> but it helps a lot when you are imagining what to create 22:47:22 <argoneus> but in 3ds max you see all those 22:47:27 <argoneus> (that's what I thought at least) 22:47:30 <V453000> yes, which is true big time 22:47:42 <V453000> but still making sketches helps modeling more than you might imagine 22:47:44 <argoneus> oh 22:47:48 <argoneus> so if you are able to draw 22:47:54 <argoneus> modelling things is much less trial & error 22:47:55 <V453000> or just putting the things together in your head 22:47:58 <argoneus> and much more actual progress? 22:48:10 <V453000> I would say it differently 22:48:22 <V453000> if you can draw, you can make a good sketch and then you just model it 22:48:24 <Pikkaphone> you don't have to be able to draw *well* 22:48:42 <V453000> if you cant like me, then you just model and invent it on the fly 22:49:01 <V453000> well yeah you dont have to do anything :P but it helps at least to some degree 22:49:34 <V453000> it depedns what are you doing, too 22:49:34 <Pikkaphone> sketching is good 22:49:45 <argoneus> I like how no artist is good at drawing 22:49:47 <V453000> if you model e.g. cars, then meh, take picture, model, done 22:49:53 <V453000> if you model your own characters, it is a must 22:50:06 <argoneus> as in 22:50:06 <Pikkaphone> pretty sketching will make you more employable :p 22:50:18 <argoneus> artists always seem to hate their own work, and they seem to love criticizing work of others 22:50:18 <V453000> XD 22:50:22 <argoneus> at least from what I've seen 22:50:38 <argoneus> then again I don't move much about people who can draw more than a stick figure 22:50:42 <argoneus> around* 22:51:08 <Pikkaphone> V likes criticizing others 22:51:13 <argoneus> V453000: so you do 3D art for a living? 22:51:17 <Pikkaphone> he's a big meanie 22:51:27 <V453000> yes I do 22:51:29 <V453000> on both accounts 22:51:31 <argoneus> what do you like, even do? is it architect-ish? 22:51:42 <argoneus> or what do you model in practice 22:51:55 <V453000> as the main thing, we do 3D visualization of buildings, roads, tracks, ... 22:52:03 <argoneus> ohh 22:52:19 <argoneus> so you are the company that makes those models of how a new shopping center could look? 22:52:23 <V453000> but we also do video related things, photo related things, printing, shooting video, ... 22:52:34 <V453000> yeah, but usually our company also creates the project 22:52:44 <argoneus> oh, so you have architects etc as well? 22:52:55 <V453000> the 3D visualization is Usually just an addition to the project so the people can present it 22:52:57 <V453000> yes 22:53:13 <argoneus> oh 22:53:17 <argoneus> we two aren't that different then 22:53:23 <argoneus> you are told "make this", I am told "make this" 22:53:32 <V453000> http://valbek.eu/cs/ 22:53:42 <V453000> everybody is told make this :D 22:53:45 <argoneus> ugh 22:53:47 <argoneus> all this web 2.0 22:53:54 <argoneus> I just want to navigate the website, not click tiles 22:54:07 <V453000> you navigate by clicking tiles? :D 22:54:20 <V453000> CAN DO IT WITH A HEAVENLY TOUCH SCREEN!1!11! 22:54:23 <V453000> advantages 22:54:36 <argoneus> >heavenly 22:54:42 <argoneus> that sounds like something out of a chinese cartoon 22:54:56 <V453000> well iz not :D 22:56:20 <argoneus> I still envy you :D 22:56:31 <V453000> not that much to envy 22:56:31 <argoneus> I wish I had motivation to work on personal projects and make my openttd AI finally etc 22:56:40 <V453000> people usually dont realize that graphics are just hard work :) 22:56:48 <argoneus> I usually just come home energyless and don't want to do anything 22:57:16 *** liq4 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:58:07 <argoneus> or rather 22:58:17 <argoneus> I am always like "when I come home I'll implement pathfinding for my AI" 22:58:32 <argoneus> and then I go to school, do math and programming, then to work, program some more, then come home "fuck this" 22:59:14 *** liq4 is now known as liq3 22:59:26 <argoneus> also 22:59:35 <argoneus> I believe you completely when you say doing graphics is not easy 22:59:52 <argoneus> anyway, good night, and sorry for shitting up this channel with my life stories :D 23:01:00 <V453000> gnight :) 23:01:40 <argoneus> waaait 23:01:45 <argoneus> do you own openttdcoop too? 23:02:06 <argoneus> just how many things are you involved in ._. 23:02:15 <argoneus> I swear, if you invade my dreams too... 23:02:38 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:03:23 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@58.108.147.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:15 <Sylf> he doesn't own it. he's just a big part of it. 23:07:21 <V453000> :d lol 23:07:27 <V453000> no I dont own anything 23:09:22 <V453000> I just wreck shit when I build 23:10:06 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe34h102.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 23:10:40 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:10:48 <argoneus> I wish I was as good at making trains :< 23:10:49 <argoneus> gnight 23:10:57 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:11:06 <V453000> again just a matter of time to learn :) 23:17:56 *** argoneus [~oftc-webi@ip-89-102-27-91.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:51:57 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:53:58 *** efess` [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:56:20 *** k [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:56:52 *** efess is now known as Guest456 23:56:52 *** k is now known as efess