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00:02:53 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:29:46 *** minimoo [quasselcor@2a01:4a0:44:118::2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:27 *** minimoo [quasselcor@2a01:4a0:44:118::2] has joined #openttd 00:57:17 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:07:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:59 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:56 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 01:50:55 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:54:04 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.146.217.80] has joined #openttd 02:47:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5B0DAE69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:53:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DAE69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:40:04 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:32:04 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.169.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:46:09 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:46:22 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 04:52:06 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 05:01:18 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:06:50 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:08 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:46:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 05:54:43 *** supermop_ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:32 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:57:42 <Alberth> moin 05:58:11 <Hiddenfunstuff> o{ 05:58:17 <Hiddenfunstuff> o/ 06:00:27 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08380a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 06:01:12 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:28 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 06:42:34 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@89.148.40.173] has joined #openttd 06:47:49 *** empezar [~empezar@81-231-64-84-no193.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 07:01:27 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:4cb5:5806:f205:2bf8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:51 *** empezar [~empezar@81-231-64-84-no193.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:46 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:23:24 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:27:48 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:27 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:32:55 *** ConductingCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:14 <Leanden> Alberth u there? 08:03:33 <Alberth> yes 08:04:00 <Alberth> Leanden: ^ 08:04:02 <Leanden> :) 08:04:05 <Leanden> I have two questions 08:04:14 <Leanden> firstly ive uploaded my ssh public key to the dev page 08:04:26 <Leanden> but im trying to manually compile my test GRF using nmlc 08:04:31 <Leanden> but it keeps returning an error 08:04:38 <Leanden> Parsing ...Illegal character '#' (character code 0x23) at "src\BRTrains.pnml", line 9, column 1 08:05:10 <Alberth> paste the first say 20 lines into paste.openttdcoop.org 08:05:35 <Alberth> and yes, # is not in the NML language :) 08:05:55 <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pasvxuszs 08:06:19 <Alberth> ah, right, that's not an nml file 08:06:30 <Leanden> oh 08:06:41 <Alberth> do you have cpp or gcc or cc ? 08:06:47 <Leanden> gcc 08:07:25 <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=74752 08:07:34 <V453000> mornink humenz 08:07:50 <Alberth> mornink Vs 08:08:05 <Leanden> i have a makefile 08:08:07 <V453000> all bow before yetis 08:08:13 <Leanden> so what do i type into my nmlc to make it compile? 08:08:33 <Alberth> you don't, make does that for you 08:08:50 <Alberth> type make -n to see what it would do if you type make 08:09:16 <Alberth> many improvements in the yetis industries V 08:09:31 <V453000> yeah, all just photoshop painting :) 08:09:35 <Alberth> you made the yetis clean the mine platform 08:10:04 <Alberth> I was wondering about the oil wells thing, shouldn't there be a fence around the moving things? 08:10:05 <Leanden> sh ok 08:10:14 <Leanden> "No repository found* 08:11:10 <Alberth> it tries to get revision information from the current directory, which fails of course, if your directory in not under source control 08:11:29 <Leanden> ok so ive updated my directory to be a .hg repository 08:11:35 <Leanden> make: *** No rule to make target `BRTrains.grf', needed by `all'. Stop. 08:11:40 <Leanden> I now get this error only 08:11:42 <V453000> heh, fuck fence :P 08:11:52 <V453000> one of the economies only has worker yards and food plants 08:11:53 <Alberth> V: your ore mine does have a fence around the hole :p 08:12:10 <V453000> you produce food from yetis, might as well not care about safety 08:12:22 <V453000> yeah point :P that is to prevent stealing of the precious brick-ore 08:12:40 <Alberth> ah, makes sense :) 08:12:56 <Alberth> doesn't look very dangerous, that fence, though :) 08:13:10 <V453000> it bites 08:13:16 <Alberth> :O 08:13:39 <Leanden> i worked it out :D 08:13:45 <Alberth> great 08:13:55 <Leanden> [ -f .version ] && [ "`cat .version`" = "r-1" ] || echo r-1 > .version echo "[MD5] BRTrains.md5" md5sum BRTrains.grf | sed "s/ / /;s/ / /" > BRTrains.md5 cat: BRTrains.md5: No such file or directory echo "[TXT] docs/readme.txt" cat docs/readme.ptxt \ | sed -e "s/{{GRF_TITLE}}/BRTrains r-1/" \ | sed -e "s/{{GRF_ID}}//" \ | sed -e "s/{{REPO_REVISION}}/-1/" \ | sed -e "s/{{FILENAM 08:14:05 <Leanden> now missing md5 ll 08:14:18 <Alberth> yeah, don't paste in here, use a pastebin 08:14:25 <Leanden> sorry 08:14:39 <Alberth> np, we all make mistakes :) 08:14:40 <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwhynemkg 08:15:13 <Leanden> so i created a blank file called BRTrains.grf for it to write into 08:15:22 <Leanden> but now im getting this missing .md5 error 08:15:56 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.146.217.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:14 <Alberth> creating the blank .grf file just makes that it skips building the grf 08:16:38 <Alberth> you want automatic building on the compile farm, I guess? 08:16:52 <Leanden> yes but i understand thats broken atm due to a http read fault 08:17:14 <Alberth> apparently, but ssh is on the way 08:17:16 <Leanden> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8237 08:17:37 <Alberth> nothing I can do with that, sorry 08:17:53 <Alberth> planetmaker: ^ can you help Leanden ? 08:18:06 <Alberth> probably won't work 08:18:35 <Alberth> if you have linux, md5 is easy to add 08:18:45 <Alberth> otherwise, euhm, no idea 08:20:00 <Leanden> nope windows unfortunately 08:20:01 <Alberth> you might want to compare with another project that uses makefiles (which is pretty much all of them) 08:20:17 <Leanden> im using SBBset as my comparison 08:20:33 <Alberth> ok 08:20:35 <Leanden> (in fact ive literally copied their makefile and changed the filepaths) 08:21:10 <Alberth> that's a useful strategy in many cases :) 08:21:40 <Alberth> no md5sum thingie from where-ever you got gcc? 08:21:54 <Leanden> oh i just remembered 08:22:00 <Leanden> when i downloaded nmlc 08:22:05 <Leanden> there was a md5 with that 08:22:08 <Leanden> is that what im missing? 08:22:35 <Alberth> don't know, I have no idea what md5 it comes with 08:22:39 <Leanden> no actually, thats a stupid comment, that was the md5 for the installer ;) 08:26:28 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 08:26:50 <Leanden> ok so i got an md5 generator and created the md5 hashfil 08:26:52 <Leanden> file* 08:27:23 <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/px8jhisd5 08:27:27 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ 08:27:29 <Leanden> so was this successful or not? :P 08:28:12 <Leanden> i think not because i still dont have an NML file to run nmlc on 08:29:21 <Alberth> gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o BTtrains.nml BTtrains.pnml 08:29:35 <Alberth> nmlc BTtrains.nml 08:30:32 <Leanden> it failed 08:30:33 <Alberth> first command runs the C pre-processor, eliminating all the #define and #include, second command builds the grf 08:31:10 <Alberth> remarks like "it don't work" give no clues at all what to fix 08:31:17 <Leanden> fatal error: src/compatibility.pnml: No such file or directory #include "src/compatibility.pnml" 08:31:21 <Leanden> sorry i was getting there ;) 08:31:59 <Alberth> #include is relative to the source file it is in, I think 08:32:19 <Leanden> riiiighht 08:32:21 <Leanden> ok i got it 08:32:28 <Leanden> the base pnml shouldnt be in the src folder then 08:32:32 <Alberth> alternatively, you can add a -Isrc and kill all src/ prefixes 08:32:57 <Leanden> nmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 9: Expected a string literal of length 4 Included from: "BRTrains.pnml", line 10 08:33:20 <Alberth> gcc worked :p 08:33:28 <Leanden> indeed 08:33:34 <Alberth> now fix the nml errors :) 08:34:24 <Leanden> hmmm so theres an error in my header pnml? 08:34:44 <Leanden> oh line 9 is my GRF ID 08:34:48 <Alberth> nml detects it there, but that does not imply the fix should also be there 08:34:54 <Leanden> grfid: "JK"; 08:35:08 <Alberth> looks too long :) 08:35:13 <Alberth> that's 5 bytes 08:35:40 <Leanden> ok corrected that :) 08:35:53 <Leanden> nmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 13: Unrecognized identifier 'REPO_REVISION' encountered 08:37:05 <Alberth> hmm, my quote at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1167650#p1167650 adds -D things to gcc 08:37:30 <Alberth> but these are generated from the makefile 08:37:54 <Leanden> hmm 08:38:21 <Leanden> i think my make may have failed actually 08:38:22 <Alberth> you can fiddle with them manually, but it's messy 08:38:42 <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prejuogn9 08:40:04 <Alberth> unix2dos doesn't do what the makefile expects, I think, I have such a unix2dos too 08:40:46 <Alberth> I fixed that somewhere, but where? 08:41:03 <Leanden> :D 08:42:12 <Alberth> ah, the make-nml project, I think do you have a line like 08:42:12 <Alberth> UNIX2DOS_FLAGS ?= $(shell [ -n $(UNIX2DOS) ] && $(UNIX2DOS) -q --version 2>/dev/null && echo "-q" || echo "") 08:43:03 <Alberth> make-nml is sort of the base of the makefile stuff, which you are supposed to copy when making a new project 08:43:23 <Alberth> most people however copy from a random other project, and never update their files 08:43:31 <Alberth> which is fine, until it breaks :p 08:43:44 <Leanden> :) 08:44:10 <Leanden> where do i find that file? 08:45:07 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml 08:45:41 <Leanden> ye i saw that page earlier but couldnt find a download 08:46:04 <Alberth> not sure there is one, tbh 08:46:12 <Alberth> but it makes sense to have that 08:47:46 <Alberth> hmm, doesn't seem to work either 08:47:54 <Leanden> ive manually downloaded the makefile 08:49:01 <Leanden> lets see how this works 08:49:32 <Leanden> yay yhe make file works 08:50:23 <Leanden> im now back up to the REPO_VERSION error 08:53:56 <Alberth> you're running this in a repository directory? 08:54:25 <Leanden> yes 08:54:42 <Leanden> its a local only repository in Tortoisehg 08:56:06 <Alberth> oh, that's fine, tortoisehg is just a frontend for hg 08:56:16 <Leanden> but its an unrecognized identifier 08:57:14 <Leanden> hmmm 08:57:46 <Alberth> there is a point where they get replaced 08:58:05 <Alberth> maybe a custom_tags file or so that gets generated? 08:58:47 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwhynemkg seems to do that, but it failed 08:59:20 <Alberth> nvm, that's for your readme file 08:59:43 <Leanden> :D 09:03:29 <Alberth> scripts/Makefile.def has the commands to derive revisions, it seems 09:03:47 <Alberth> there are tooo many makefiles in SBB set :( 09:04:21 <Alberth> hg id -n | cut -d+ -f1 gets the revision 09:05:02 <Alberth> but hg will only work in a directory in the repository 09:05:06 <Leanden> oh i scrapped the sbb ones 09:05:10 <Leanden> and im using the base ones now 09:05:26 <Alberth> ah, ok 09:06:23 <Leanden> ive temporarily overrident he identifier with the number 1 09:06:37 <Alberth> findversion.sh does that now 09:15:50 <Leanden> well i have findversion.sh in there 09:15:56 <Leanden> but it doesnt appear to be doing anything 09:16:13 <Leanden> its even generated a .version file 09:20:07 <Alberth> 0749fe4d44f9    5438    M               v5438M (0749fe4d44f9)           2014-11-21 <-- afaik it produces this kind of output 09:20:59 <Alberth> does hg id do anything? 09:21:15 <Alberth> if not your working directory is wrong 09:24:00 <Leanden> it returns 0000000000000 tip 09:24:24 <planetmaker> hm? 09:24:52 <Leanden> hey pm :) 09:26:59 <planetmaker> revision 0000 tip certainly means there's nothing checked-out 09:30:31 <Leanden> indeed 09:30:40 <Leanden> well ive now managed to compile it all the way through to the end 09:33:39 <Leanden> obviously with the REVISION_VERSION identifier substituted 09:35:30 <Leanden> nothing in game though :D 09:35:59 <Alberth> ah, not added files and committed to the repo yet ? 09:36:08 <Leanden> perhaps not? 09:40:39 <Leanden> ok hg id now returns: d62ab68b6469+ tip 09:40:49 <Leanden> but the REPO_VERSION identifier is still failing 09:45:18 * Leanden slaps planetmaker around a bit with a large fishbot 09:48:03 <Leanden> im stuck waiting for my hg key to be activated on the dev repository :D 10:02:37 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-224-248.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:02:38 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-224-248.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:15 *** Deactivated [~db4aae2e@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:14:09 *** Deactivated [~db4aae2e@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 10:23:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:35 <Wolf01> o/ 10:24:22 <Alberth> moin 10:31:54 <V453000> yo 10:32:09 <V453000> Wolf01: I guess I should put slugs in the farm :) 10:33:32 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2236 10:33:32 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@95.232.234.120] has joined #openttd 10:33:33 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 10:36:32 *** Guest2236 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:51 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08380a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:42:37 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:01:10 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 11:10:41 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:11:03 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@95.232.234.120] has joined #openttd 11:11:03 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2239 11:11:04 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 11:11:08 <Samu> bool IsDead(CompanyID slot) const 11:11:22 <Samu> i think i did it 11:14:59 <Samu> im not sure what void and const do though 11:15:09 <Samu> or virtual void 11:15:31 <Alberth> I see no void there 11:15:45 <Alberth> const means the function does not change the object 11:16:15 <Alberth> virtual means derived classes may redefine the function 11:16:35 *** Guest2239 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:38 <Samu> static 11:21:08 <Samu> static bool IsDead(CompanyID slot) 11:24:16 <Wolf01> static mean the function is callable without an instance (and has some other nice properties) 11:25:02 <Wolf01> also, it might have a cached value 11:27:46 <Alberth> and it's not available outside the .cpp file it is in 11:28:42 <Alberth> oh, it's a function member eh? the latter only holds for normal functions, sorry 11:33:28 <Samu> i got to copy paste the whole function? 11:35:44 <Alberth> to do what? 11:35:47 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/powbjkea0 - i've put in lines 86 to 97 11:36:21 <Samu> then i used the IsDead in lines 111 and 130 so far 11:36:28 <Samu> havent edited the rest yet 11:38:26 <Alberth> it's much better if you make the already available function available everywhere you need it 11:38:58 <Alberth> duplicating code creates major headaches if you want to change thigs 11:39:24 *** SWAT [~swat@cyberdyneinc.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:43 <Samu> it is also used in another big function, the AI Debug window function 11:39:50 <V453000> I wonder if the best way to build factorio railways is one huge 1-way loop 11:40:33 <Samu> hmm, so where do i put this IsDead at 11:41:03 <Alberth> V: if all trains must vist A -> B -> C -> ... -> A, then looks like it :) 11:41:16 <V453000> no, even when they don't 11:41:28 <V453000> building junctions is generally quite an issue without bridges 11:41:36 <V453000> chain signals are great but trains still need to cross 11:41:42 <Samu> sec, let me get the list of all functions it would help 11:41:46 <Alberth> no worm holes, just no bridges :p 11:41:58 <V453000> .. :) 11:42:37 <Samu> struct AIConfigWindow : public Window { 11:42:40 <Alberth> double track around the stations they don't need to transfer cargo? 11:42:44 <Samu> struct AISettingsWindow : public Window { 11:44:30 <Alberth> a number of connected circles like an 8 but more circles could work perhaps 11:44:31 <Samu> struct AIDebugWindow : public Window { 11:44:31 <Wolf01> V, do you bother about delivering speed in factorio? 11:45:00 <Wolf01> I bother about stuff getting delivered and not chewed by biters around the map 11:45:38 <Wolf01> also... all my bases are under attack... 11:46:09 <V453000> defense is eazy 11:46:14 <V453000> just blueprint more laser wall :D 11:46:28 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@89.148.40.173] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:04 <Wolf01> yes, you can defend every single outpost, but I really need a chinese great wall now 11:47:51 <Wolf01> aliens seem to have learned to pass between the outposts instead of attacking them 11:48:14 <Alberth> :) 11:48:26 *** SWAT [~swat@cyberdyneinc.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:48:30 <Samu> there's an already available function inside struct AIDebugWindow : public Window {, it's where I copied the code from 11:48:46 <Samu> how do i make it available for the other 2 11:49:22 <Alberth> move it out of the window class/struct 11:50:14 <V453000> yeah, great wall is usually a good idea 11:50:15 <Alkel_U3> Yesterday I tried the oxygen mod with train outposts mod. I died so fast I didn't even get to see a biter on radar 11:52:52 <Wolf01> http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/cursed-underground-transport mmh underground train 11:54:43 <Alberth> no bridges eh? :) 11:55:00 <V453000> O_O 11:57:11 <Wolf01> I think I'll install the shuttle train mod and the fat controller mod, at least I could call a train to go to different outposts 11:58:20 <Wolf01> :( the attachment does not exist anymore 12:00:31 <V453000> well the cursed rail thing is cute but it's just an unobstructed separater railway 12:00:40 <V453000> I don't have a problem with making my factory fit elsewhere 12:00:47 <V453000> I have the problem of trains colliding with each other 12:00:56 <V453000> which I bet this thing keeps 12:01:49 <Wolf01> how do you get colliding trains= 12:01:54 <Wolf01> ? 12:02:17 <V453000> at the junction of course 12:02:26 <V453000> if you can't have multilevel junction 12:02:58 <V453000> I guess tunnels would work 12:03:14 <Wolf01> I set up chain signals and trains wait for free block without blocking the junction 12:03:31 <Wolf01> also http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/rails-crossing 12:03:42 <Wolf01> I don't use it, no need to 12:03:56 <Wolf01> too bad is for 0.11 12:09:39 *** SWAT [~swat@cyberdyneinc.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:00 <V453000> well that's bad as well, the extra tunnel should require quite a bit of space so that it costs you stuff 12:14:05 <V453000> not just "we can cross now" 12:24:48 <peter1138> but realism! 12:24:56 <Wolf01> fuck realism? 12:29:38 <Samu> how do you pause a script? i see code about IsPaused 12:29:45 <Samu> how do i do this in a game? 12:30:50 <Wolf01> iirc IsPaused() is when the script is doing nothing because it doesn't need to do anything 12:31:03 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:40 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:56 <Flygon> Where was that thing that put townnames onto scenario maps again?... 12:32:08 <Wolf01> mmmh, I don't want to know what will happen when the fire nation will attack the southern outpost... 12:32:12 <Flygon> I'm bored, and a friend of mine is daring me to make a 4096*4096 Australia scenario 12:32:19 <Flygon> So now I'm going "Fuggit, fine" 12:32:28 <Flygon> Even though I think a 16k*16k scenario is a better use of time :P 12:35:03 <V453000> one thing is realism fucking which is sensible, but just common sense is important 12:35:07 <V453000> having trains cross is weird 12:35:57 <Wolf01> I remember ottd having 90° turns and train crossing themselves 12:37:16 <Samu> i don't know how to trigger the execution of these lines in a game 12:37:58 <Samu> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_gui.cpp;h=8944e8bc4f33f8187a50d9773078e21495e6bf6f;hb=HEAD#l1339 12:38:01 <Samu> line 1339 12:40:16 <Alberth> looks like hitting a debugging breakpoint 12:40:23 <Samu> also line 1279 12:42:06 <Samu> I don't see a Continue button in AI Debug window... what am i missing 12:46:19 <V453000> Wolf01: doesn't mean it is a good thing :P 12:46:32 <Wolf01> Samu: what you do need to continue? the AI is dead 12:46:40 <Wolf01> oh, !isdead 12:46:58 <Wolf01> np 12:47:11 <Alberth> Samu: no explanation at the wiki about the break thing? 12:48:29 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 12:52:24 <Samu> ah i did not know about this 12:52:25 <Samu> https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know#AIController::Break 12:53:38 <Samu> interesting, the continue button is there 12:56:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@31.185.142.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:18 <Samu> ohh.... another color 12:56:21 <Samu> yellow 13:01:49 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@31.185.142.158] has joined #openttd 13:03:00 <Samu> I see now how it pauses 13:08:39 <Samu> nice, my code replacement works 13:08:41 <Samu> !IsDead(this->ai_debug_company) 13:12:45 <Samu> i must have an IsDead compatible for all the 3 different functions 13:12:50 <Samu> structs 13:12:55 <Samu> or whatever they're called 13:14:16 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:30 <Samu> hmm i'm unsure if my IsDead adaptation works for all the 3 structs 13:27:36 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 13:29:18 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plqlru8ut 13:29:28 <Samu> am i doing it right? 13:34:16 <Samu> i'm gonna ruin the entire code, see if it works 13:34:44 <Alberth> looks ok-ish 13:34:53 <Alberth> no "this" in the moved function 13:35:19 <Alberth> so it shouldn't access anything from the debug window 13:35:43 <Samu> !IsDead(ai_debug_company) 13:35:55 <Samu> it's originally !this-IsDead() 13:36:06 <Samu> oops !this->IsDead() 13:36:58 <Alberth> yes, the function is now not a member any more, so you can't access it through this 13:37:58 <Samu> I must have screwed somewhere, because if (!IsDead(this->ai_debug_company)) { was working 13:38:57 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:42:35 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:46 <Flygon> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27052 Just to be clear, is this the most up-to-date method of making heightmaps? 13:56:54 <peter1138> er, you can make a heightmap however you like 13:57:01 <peter1138> open image editor, draw... 13:57:52 <Flygon> Yes, but from real world locations 13:59:15 <Samu> now I can replace this huge line "(this->slot == OWNER_DEITY && !Game::GetInstance()->IsDead()) || (Company::IsValidAiID(this->slot) && !Company::Get(this->slot)->ai_instance->IsDead())" to just this line "!IsDead(this->slot)"? or is it "!IsDead(slot)"? 13:59:38 <Samu> this->slot vs slot is what's still confusing me 14:00:13 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:05 <Alberth> sometimes they are the same thing and sometimes not 14:01:20 <supermop> profound 14:01:27 <Alberth> this->slot is the "slot" variable in the class/struct 14:01:59 <Alberth> slot is a local variable in the code, or, if it does not exist, this->slot in the class/struct 14:02:44 <Alberth> openttd code however forbids the latter, hence all code uses "this->" prefix to refer to variables (and functions) in the class/struct 14:03:18 <Alberth> hi hi supermop 14:03:25 <Alberth> it needed a cliff hanger :p 14:07:13 <Samu> okay, so this->slot 14:07:16 <Samu> is correct 14:08:26 <Wolf01> this.x vs this->x is that confuses me :) 14:08:48 <Wolf01> *what 14:10:14 <argoneus> this is a pointer 14:10:23 <argoneus> so either (*this).x or this->x 14:10:44 <argoneus> they're equivalent 14:11:19 <Wolf01> ok, then I'm confused about this and (*this) 14:11:26 <argoneus> this is a pointer 14:11:26 <Wolf01> I just can't understand why C++ is not able to handle the difference by itself 14:11:32 <argoneus> *this resolves a value where it points 14:11:49 <Alberth> Wolf01: it can, that's why you get an error :p 14:11:57 <argoneus> ^ 14:12:17 <argoneus> "this" is a pointer to the current instance of the class/struct 14:12:33 <Alberth> it's largely historical, I think 14:12:38 <argoneus> it has to be like that 14:12:55 <argoneus> you want to access one specific instance of the class in the memory 14:13:10 <argoneus> so you need a pointer to the one specific instance 14:13:20 <argoneus> no? 14:13:21 <Alberth> argoneus: what Wolf01 is arguing about is that there is no point in making the difference. You cannot do . on a pointer anyway 14:13:34 <argoneus> oh, like that 14:13:41 <Alberth> so why not automagically . to -> 14:13:48 <Wolf01> ^ 14:14:01 <Alberth> like eg Java, and I guess C# 14:14:07 <argoneus> right 14:14:27 <argoneus> I guess that's historical then 14:14:28 <argoneus> thing is 14:14:35 <argoneus> you can't do (*this).bla in java 14:14:47 <argoneus> in java everything is a magic reference or whatever they are 14:14:49 <Alberth> * doesn't exist 14:15:02 <argoneus> and you pass around reference 14:15:03 <argoneus> s 14:15:25 <Alberth> I think the idea is that * and -> are different on objects, and you want consistency in operations 14:15:59 <Alberth> argoneus: not entirely, the simple types (int, float etc) are by value 14:16:06 <Alberth> to make it simpler :p 14:16:11 <argoneus> right, primitives 14:16:14 <argoneus> BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE 14:16:17 <argoneus> you can do Integer x; 14:16:22 <argoneus> because... reasons? 14:16:32 <Alberth> templates 14:16:40 <Alberth> List<int> doesn't work 14:16:44 <argoneus> huh, it doesn't? 14:16:50 <Alberth> although they are working on it 14:16:53 <argoneus> wait really? 14:16:53 <Wolf01> in C# everything is an object, and everything uses "." 14:16:56 <argoneus> I never knew 14:17:04 <Alberth> nope, must be List<Integer> 14:17:13 <Wolf01> (and you can do List<int> in C#) 14:17:14 <argoneus> "the java specification forbids the use of primitives in generics" 14:17:16 <argoneus> whoooa 14:17:23 <argoneus> for some reason I never needed this I guess 14:17:49 <argoneus> thanks, I learned something new 14:17:50 <Alberth> java spec is borked at lost of places :) 14:18:11 <peter1138> Does java have unsigned integers yet? 14:18:14 <Alberth> *lots 14:18:27 <Alberth> no, not that I know 14:18:58 <Alberth> although you can just use the 32 bits, if you ignore the weird values 14:19:24 <argoneus> this is one of the reasons why packing structs is annoying with Java 14:19:26 <argoneus> you need to use byte arrays 14:19:37 <argoneus> I tried doing something like that for openttd and it was a pain 14:19:47 <argoneus> openttd uses packed structs for networking, right 14:20:16 <Alberth> quite normal to use packed structs :) 14:20:26 <argoneus> I can't say I've seen it somewhere else 14:20:32 <argoneus> then again I've never really done networking on a low level 14:20:38 <Alberth> although I always expand it to reading bytes and glueing them together again 14:21:12 <argoneus> also 14:21:21 <argoneus> I feel slightly bad for picking up software engineering at uni 14:21:32 <argoneus> I thought it would teach me how to code 14:21:38 <argoneus> and how to work with large codebases 14:21:39 <argoneus> but nope 14:21:48 <Alberth> I could have told you that :p 14:22:12 <Alberth> many people believe CS is about programming :) 14:22:14 <argoneus> well, in the end, these degrees are similar, right 14:22:22 <argoneus> in terms of practical usability 14:22:29 <argoneus> you have to learn most things in the field anyway 14:22:43 <argoneus> and I know the basics of CS and automata and stuff 14:23:06 <argoneus> a friend of mine picked up CS instead of softeng and the only difference is when I was drawing UML diagrams he was writing a front-end for gcc 14:23:30 <argoneus> (which I suppose is much more fun and useful) 14:23:56 <Alberth> euhm, not sure about that :p 14:24:34 <Alberth> in general, uni teaches you to find structure in apparent chaotic problems 14:25:03 <Alberth> and then use that structure to solve the problem 14:27:19 <Alberth> how to work with tools, documents, and programming is learned by experience, and the uni doesn't have enough hours to teach you that 14:27:33 <Alberth> since it takes several years at least 14:27:38 <argoneus> right 14:27:46 <argoneus> also each company has different styles and policies and technologies 14:27:50 <argoneus> and it's physically impossible to cover those 14:28:21 <Alberth> but your "find structure in apparent chaos" skills do work there 14:28:33 <Wolf01> <Alberth> in general, uni teaches you to find structure in apparent chaotic problems <- and I reaaly need to do that but I never made it to that point of the course :( 14:28:36 <Alberth> which is why you are able to find your way around it 14:29:49 <Alberth> Wolf01: ha :) Well, I found it doesn't teach you how to recognize apparent chaos from real chaos either :) 14:29:58 <argoneus> by the way, real talk, you have a lot more experience than me 14:30:04 <Alberth> I found out after 10 years :p 14:30:11 <argoneus> is it a bad idea to work at a start-up? 14:30:25 <argoneus> I used to think it was a hip thing where you have to work 80 hours a week and may or may not get results 14:30:39 <argoneus> but the flip side is you get to work on non-legacy code with enthusiastic people who don't suffer from depression 14:30:46 <argoneus> does it generally work or not work? 14:31:17 <Alberth> it really depends on what you like and need to have around you 14:31:22 <argoneus> I'm not sure what kind of dev job I want to do :( 14:31:43 <argoneus> I considered trying to apply for Factorio since that seems really fun and interesting 14:31:49 <argoneus> but they are only looking for senior developers 14:32:08 <argoneus> senior game developers, even 14:32:13 <Alberth> game industry is quite difficult, every kid wants to make games 14:32:13 <argoneus> I'm neither of those 14:32:14 <supermop> argoneus: start up = free beer 14:32:31 <supermop> my fiance's start up has two kegs on tap at all times 14:32:34 <argoneus> V453000: that's right, right 14:32:37 <argoneus> supermop: the fuck 14:32:47 <supermop> also the fire people all the time, so trade off 14:33:12 <argoneus> I just want a job where I don't work on 30 year old legacy code 14:33:13 <supermop> but that's a NYC start up which are more ruthless than in california or boston or europe 14:33:19 <Samu> the biggest line i had on ai_gui.cpp has been reduced to just this: 14:33:21 <argoneus> and my job is actually important to the company 14:33:22 <Samu> bool editable = _game_mode != GM_NORMAL || IsDead(this->slot) || (config_item.flags & SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME) != 0; 14:33:33 <Samu> this is really cool 14:33:40 <argoneus> I did a part-time job at Oracle, doing QA 14:33:43 <argoneus> and it drained me mentally 14:33:44 <argoneus> really hard 14:33:55 <argoneus> not only was the work boring, no one even appreciated it or cared about it 14:33:56 <Alberth> QA sucks badly 14:34:10 <argoneus> and the devs sometimes gave me chores 14:34:14 <argoneus> that they didn't want to do 14:34:16 <argoneus> ffs 14:34:28 <argoneus> such is life being a part-time student at a super-company, right 14:34:47 <supermop> argoneus: also legacy code may be written by people who know what they are doing, at some start ups, most of the entry level devs might be straight out of a ruby bootcamp and have no idea yet 14:34:55 <argoneus> >ruby bootcamp 14:34:56 <argoneus> aaaaaa 14:34:58 <argoneus> NO WEBDEV 14:35:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:20 <Alberth> argoneus: legacy code is an order of magnitude more complicated than new code 14:35:59 <supermop> Alberth: my fiance's frustration is not with code but with people she works with 14:36:02 <argoneus> Alberth: I saw some Solaris code 14:36:07 <argoneus> that code 14:36:17 <argoneus> it's basically super-optimized for the specific compiler version they're using 14:36:21 <supermop> but she is a data scientist so she is somewhat removed from their day to day work 14:36:26 <argoneus> some lines that seemed to make no sense actually helped it run faster somehow 14:36:41 <supermop> ie she writes and works on her own 14:36:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:47 <argoneus> and the code was hard to read 14:36:55 <Alberth> ha, that even happens with new code :p 14:37:22 <Alberth> I was trying to make a kinect decoder runs faster, and removed an always-false if condition. It slowed down :p 14:37:45 <argoneus> what 14:37:54 <Alberth> argoneus: yep, genius programmers can write complicated code :p 14:38:18 <supermop> argoneus: depends also on the start up scene and culture of the city you live in/want to live in 14:38:22 <argoneus> but yeah, basically, I have absolutely no clue what kind of job I want to do 14:38:31 <Alberth> I am guessing it has to do with branch prediction 14:38:34 <argoneus> I'm not one to wear thick glasses and drink coffee from a fancy mug 14:38:48 <argoneus> I can't even grow a beard 14:38:52 <supermop> what about fancy coffee from a thick mug? 14:39:05 <argoneus> fancy coffee? 14:39:06 <argoneus> so starbucks? 14:39:17 <supermop> starbucks is shit 14:39:24 <argoneus> I have no idea, I don't like coffee 14:39:28 <argoneus> too bitter for me 14:39:52 <supermop> http://www.joenewyork.com/ 14:40:09 <supermop> im off to buy fancy coffee from the above in a paper cup 14:40:27 <argoneus> ugh 14:40:33 <argoneus> why is their logo half my screen 14:40:38 <argoneus> I have to scroll down to even read text 14:40:47 <Alberth> screen too small? :p 14:40:49 <supermop> but only because there is no intelligentsia, counter culture, or stumptown nearer to the office 14:40:52 <argoneus> 1080p 14:40:53 <V453000> ? 14:40:57 <supermop> yeah fine on my screen 14:41:05 <argoneus> click on "Coffee" 14:41:06 <argoneus> on that page 14:41:12 <argoneus> THAT logo. 14:41:30 <supermop> http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/ 14:41:35 <supermop> that one better? 14:41:44 <argoneus> V453000: I was just being sad you are only recruiting senior game developers 14:42:27 <supermop> V453000: argoneus instinctively highlighted you when i mentioned BEER 14:42:28 <argoneus> that looks nice supermop 14:42:31 <V453000> is the only difference between junior and senior that one knows his shit better? 14:42:47 <argoneus> V453000: I thought senior was "sorry you don't have 15 years of experience" 14:43:17 <argoneus> I mean 14:43:23 <argoneus> technically, it doesn't say you need experience 14:43:24 <V453000> idk what are the criteria and I doubt they are super strict 14:43:31 <argoneus> I might try applying for Factorio after finals 14:43:35 <argoneus> literally living in prague 14:44:10 <supermop> argoneus: if you dont like bitter, start with roasters like these, 3rd wave light roasts, especially the Kenyans and Ethiopians are fruiting and sweet 14:44:19 <supermop> slightly sour, not at all bitter 14:44:21 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 14:44:31 <supermop> like a fruity tea 14:44:37 <argoneus> supermop: m8 I don't even know what this is 14:44:44 <argoneus> I just bought some cheap coffee at my local grocery store 14:44:55 <argoneus> and decided I don't like coffee 14:45:03 <supermop> i didnt drink coffee until abt 4 years ago when i go into this stuff 14:45:12 <supermop> theres you problem 14:45:25 <supermop> im sure prague has a good 3rd wave roaster 14:45:35 <supermop> V453000: true? 14:46:04 <V453000> 3rd wave roaster? 14:48:55 <argoneus> Alberth: if I may ask, what kind of job do you personally think is the most "fun"? 14:48:59 <argoneus> in terms of development 14:49:10 <argoneus> or at least some jobs I should really avoid (other than QA) 14:49:25 <argoneus> you have a lot of experience, right 14:49:30 <supermop> idk if you can trust this argoneus but here is something: 14:49:31 <supermop> https://foursquare.com/top-places/prague/best-places-third-wave-coffee 14:49:35 <Alberth> that has no meaning to you 14:49:53 <V453000> I would avoid bathroom hygiene levels manager 14:50:13 <argoneus> I bet that's more fun than QA 14:50:15 <Alberth> you should ask yourself what environment do you need, what kind of work do I enjoy or hate, what languages 14:50:32 <argoneus> eh 14:50:46 <Alberth> do you want to go deep, same kind of stuff for 10 years 14:50:57 <V453000> yeah, I don't think there is an universal scale of more fun > less fun 14:50:57 <argoneus> I suppose a small-ish stable company working on a cool project with C#/C++/Python/whatever could be nice 14:50:57 <Alberth> or do something else every 3 months 14:51:11 <argoneus> something like Factorio seems really comfy 14:51:29 <Alberth> is stable job important, or place where the work is, or duration of journey 14:51:39 <argoneus> hmm 14:51:44 <argoneus> so instead of looking for one specific thing 14:51:50 <argoneus> I should just filter existing things and pick the best one? 14:52:12 <Alberth> one solution is no solution 14:52:14 <argoneus> als 14:52:20 <argoneus> it really is a privilege being able to choose the job 14:52:25 <argoneus> I sure am glad I'm not a lawyer 14:52:26 <Alberth> you cannot judge it, as there is no alternative 14:52:41 <argoneus> or a mentally ill webdev 14:53:14 <Alberth> so yeah, looks what's there, and picture yourself in that job 14:53:44 <argoneus> to be honest, at one point I was even wondering if I even like programming, as I absolutely hated QA 14:53:55 <argoneus> but from the reactions of other people it's normal to......not love that job 14:53:58 <supermop> if you are still fairly young and have not financial obligations or debt, you could just do whatever jobs to try them out 14:53:59 <argoneus> apparently. 14:54:12 <Alberth> QA is not even near programming 14:54:25 <argoneus> I did code some stuff in perl 14:54:30 <argoneus> but that was mostly maintaining legacy tools 14:54:34 <Alberth> although you get in contact with it 14:55:07 <argoneus> I was actually assigned to a new internal project and I had fun with it 14:55:21 <supermop> i thin it is good to try things from tiny garage start up with no funding up to huge government bureaucracy, just to find where you best fit 14:55:26 <argoneus> but then they hired a graduate full-time, kicked me off it, moved me to another desk and that was that 14:55:31 <supermop> that goes for any industry 14:55:31 <argoneus> ree 14:55:53 <argoneus> supermop: I thought it was really bad for your CV to jump jobs a lot 14:56:02 <argoneus> is that not the case then? 14:56:19 <supermop> depends on where you are in your career 14:56:20 <Alberth> as long as you can explain things, I think it would be alright 14:56:41 <argoneus> so a fresh graduate having 3 jobs in the span of 2 years is fine? 14:56:41 <supermop> and obviously spend longer than a month each place 14:56:49 <supermop> yes thats ideal 14:56:55 <argoneus> oh. 14:56:55 <Alberth> "I moved to a new employer because they paid more / hour" :p 14:56:58 <argoneus> I thought I had to commit 14:57:06 <argoneus> well I feel a bit better now 14:57:45 <supermop> there has been a change 14:58:16 <supermop> and it depends on the place, but the culture of one job cradle to grave is gone 14:58:25 <argoneus> oh, that's good 14:58:30 <supermop> you need to spin it as a learning experience 14:58:38 <argoneus> so something like 14:58:42 <argoneus> "I joined a company to work on this new project" 14:58:44 <argoneus> "and left when it was done" 14:58:49 <argoneus> or something? 14:59:07 <Alberth> there are also companies that hire you, and then send you to different companies for a period to do a job 14:59:12 <argoneus> huh 14:59:22 <supermop> that way the person hiring can say, they built up this broad experience, seeking to learn what they needed to 14:59:23 <Alberth> not sure what's called in English, perhaps posting? 14:59:37 <supermop> temp agency 15:00:44 <supermop> also in 5-10 years when you are looking for a more senior position doing a specific thing, not only will you know what you want, but the company will know, this guy has seen enough to know that he wants to do this 15:00:54 <argoneus> oh! 15:01:04 <argoneus> I didn't see it that way 15:01:06 <supermop> he's not going to discover that he hates it and walk out in 2 months 15:01:11 <argoneus> like "okay he's been in like 6 different jobs" 15:01:18 <argoneus> "and he's signing up for something he's done before" 15:01:21 <argoneus> "that's a good sign" 15:01:23 <argoneus> like that? 15:01:30 <supermop> nor has he been doing the same thing all his live and now it has driven him crazy 15:01:34 <supermop> yeah 15:01:50 <argoneus> I see 15:01:51 <Alberth> there is no inherent good or bad in anything, the reasoning is at least as important 15:01:55 <supermop> but there is a balance and it depends on how you pitch it 15:01:57 <argoneus> I'm glad to hear that 15:02:01 <argoneus> I thought I had to pick and stick with something 15:02:03 <argoneus> after graduating 15:02:06 <supermop> what alberth said ^ 15:02:32 <supermop> also it almost doesnt matter at all what yo do right after graduating 15:03:00 <Alberth> do a world tour for 50 years :p 15:09:00 <supermop> again, what Alberth said ^ 15:21:45 <Wolf01> mmmh, I knew I would have started again this trend... mod it until it does crash, like Skyrim 15:23:25 *** Doge [~oftc-webi@37-219-236-107.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:23:39 <Doge> 1 Say fridge 5 times 2 Say hotdog 2 times 3 hold ur breath till u post this one another game check your voice 15:24:06 <Doge> Alberth is always here 15:24:54 <Alberth> nah, you're not around often enough to notice I am not :) 15:25:20 <Doge> LOL :P 15:25:40 <Doge> Im not always on the OpenTTD 15:25:47 <Doge> Because i have other stuff to do 15:25:53 <Doge> Play roblox.. 15:25:59 <Doge> Make new operating system... 15:26:03 <Doge> And school. 15:26:47 <Doge> I have linux operating system. 15:27:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:27:58 <Doge> I mean Ubuntu,Windows 95,Xp,Windows 7,8.1 And 10 15:30:57 *** Doge [~oftc-webi@37-219-236-107.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:35:35 <Flygon> I'm still amused OTTD totally compiles for 9x still :3 15:35:59 <supermop> ok got my coffee 15:36:04 <Flygon> I mean 15:36:11 <Flygon> Not unhappy, actually rather quite happy 15:36:12 <Flygon> Just amused 15:36:37 <blathijs> Flygon: IIRC vim (the text editor) dropped support for MS-DOS only recently :-) 15:36:48 <Flygon> Yeah, I noticed that 15:36:53 <Flygon> Kind of a sad moment... but 15:36:58 <Flygon> Er, I don't think anyone really used it O_o 15:37:33 <Flygon> Then again 15:37:48 <Flygon> I'm the guy that got upset when Ragnarok Online client didn't work on Windows 98SE 15:38:00 <Flygon> (I wanted to see how the 90s era internal graphics would handle it :P) 15:38:14 <Flygon> Turns out post-2010ish clients require XP and up 15:38:34 <Flygon> xP 15:38:55 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:43:40 <Alberth> with video display moving to the video card, the days of cpu blitting are pretty much over 15:46:44 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:4847:e308:f702:6de3] has joined #openttd 15:46:59 <supermop> V453000: how many manhours do you spend painting up sprites post-render? 16:02:46 <Alberth> can't answer you now, he's too busy painting up sprites :p 16:02:55 <Samu> bah i found a bug with the move up / move down slot stuff, grrr 16:04:25 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:36 <supermop> i wonder what typical, non vocal players want in a new grf 16:04:46 <supermop> or if they do not want new grfs at all 16:05:53 <Alberth> I would say playing 16:06:16 <Alberth> ie firs is popular, since it's designed to play 16:06:48 <supermop> yet only like 5% of servers seem to run firs 16:07:05 <Alberth> yes, only reddit does afaik 16:07:34 <Alberth> a far bigger percentage of MP at least, just play vanilla 16:07:58 <supermop> needs to be an official Andy server playing FIRS CHIPS RH IH Squid 24/7 16:07:59 <Alberth> downloading grfs before play is a big hurdle 16:08:37 <Alberth> don't know about train sets 16:08:52 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 16:08:54 <Alberth> you see a lot of nationalism there, I think 16:09:11 <Alberth> german players like DBset, dutch players the Dutch set, and so on 16:10:01 <Alberth> although most are not designed for play, but more as replicating the trains of a country 16:10:20 <Alberth> even if it makes no sense, game-play wise 16:10:21 <Samu> darn slot 15 is now bugging me 16:10:35 <Samu> i can move slot 15 down.... that's not supposed to happen 16:11:00 <Samu> it's my code that's bugged, must find out where 16:11:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:03 <Alberth> A problem in slow adaption is perhaps unclarity what a newgrf offers 16:12:44 <Alberth> just a name has no meaning for all but a few nerds that read graphics tt-forums and/or hangout at #openttd 16:12:56 <Alberth> or #tycoon, or so 16:13:38 <Alberth> as a new player, you got this insane list of newgrfs, and no pointers at all about what they do, or the quality 16:18:21 <Alberth> we need an hour or more to set up a MP game with newgrfs, a newbie is not going to manage it at all, imho 16:22:42 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:42 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:00 <Samu> okay, the bug is in IsEditable 16:26:20 <Samu> that for cycle is ruining something 16:26:58 <Samu> it is saying that a supposedly slot 16 is editable 16:27:04 <Samu> there are no 16 slots grrr 16:30:55 <Alberth> likely, it has undefined behavior for out-of-range slots 16:33:42 <Samu> i solved it, i got rid of that for 16:34:01 <Samu> also got rid of max_slot 16:34:20 <Samu> return slot < MAX_COMPANIES; 16:34:23 <Samu> this does it 16:35:01 <Samu> I was always wondering what was the for cycle doing 16:35:15 <Samu> i didn't know for sure, so i let it stay there 16:43:49 <Samu> IsDead might need a better name 16:44:16 <Samu> IsValidAIOrGSAndDead 16:44:21 <Samu> :o 16:44:48 <Samu> IsValidDead? 16:44:53 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:57 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:15 <Samu> bah 16:45:30 <Samu> the issue i have with the name is about human companies 16:46:04 <Samu> IsDead is also taking care of what to return when the slot is a human company 16:46:43 <Samu> but also what to return when the slot doesn't have any company started 16:46:48 <Samu> hmm :( 16:47:11 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:48:10 <Samu> move up and down code is making use of IsDead, but sometimes there's not even a Human company in the slot above or below 16:48:22 <Samu> it assumes those slots are dead 16:49:02 <Samu> the assumption is correct, but the name "IsDead" makes little sense now 16:54:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C1A1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:56:04 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 16:57:15 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:57:39 <Samu> IsNotStartedOrStartedButDead ? 16:57:46 <Samu> ugly 16:59:54 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-199-14.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:03:37 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:22 <_johannes> Hi 17:05:20 <_johannes> I'm still writing that savegame->route-network-pdf exporter... Someone said it should not be included in the openttd main tree - is that correct? 17:06:23 <Samu> did someone say "savegame"? 17:07:22 <Samu> i made this patch, don't know if you seen it http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74731 *cough* 17:07:29 <Samu> for savegame stuff 17:07:46 <Samu> no idea if it's related to what you're doing 17:15:08 <_johannes> no, it's not ;) 17:37:17 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5cb23.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:46:22 <supermop> Alberth: so just simple but pretty sets are not the answer? 17:46:33 <supermop> i guess that was the approach pineapple took 17:46:49 <supermop> and ive never seen a server running pineapple 17:47:03 <Alberth> simple but pretty may be the answer 17:47:08 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host109-148-27-131.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:36 <Alberth> but basing it on real-life, including speeds, costs, and other details, without regard to game play, is not, imho 17:47:53 <Alberth> at least not for all non-rail-enthousiasts 17:48:29 <Alberth> "you can buy the engine for 5 years" 17:48:52 <Alberth> wtf, before I finished a piece of track I am 10 years further in the game 17:48:54 <Alkel_U3> I've run a server with Pineapple for some time and people I had there liked it 17:49:17 <supermop> but it seems pineapple meets the simple but pretty goal, but you still run into the issue of new users don't know about it, don't want to have to download before playing mp 17:49:29 <supermop> Alkel_U3: never seen your servers online... 17:50:27 <Alkel_U3> supermop: just saying for good measure, I don't run the server too regularly 17:50:38 <supermop> V453000 was talking a bit ago about modularizing train sprites, i like that idea 17:51:24 <supermop> i think a lot of the wonder and fun of 'progression' in the game is lost if the train set is too prescriptive 17:51:43 <Alkel_U3> hm, I've been getting ready to get the server back up for at least a month now... :/ 17:51:46 <supermop> there being only one thing that makes sense to use, you know when it comes about, wtc 17:51:54 <supermop> etc 17:52:13 <supermop> back in circa 1994, playing as a child 17:52:35 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host109-148-28-49.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:54 <supermop> the first time playing was so fun because i would be legitimately surprised when a new train came out to use 17:53:12 <supermop> and also i was not familiar with the BR prototypes 17:55:19 <supermop> no way to replicate that in this game though 17:56:47 <Alkel_U3> I had an idea - you would task the manufactuers for a certain category of vehicles, they would be too busy to develop other things for some time and then they would give you a new engine, for example. I'm sure it doesn't sound impossible, not too sure how difficuilt it would be to actualy get it into openttd (probly hella) and not at all sure how viable that would be from gameplay perspective 17:57:26 <Alkel_U3> also modula sprites 17:58:31 <Alkel_U3> I usually think about this in the shower to pass time :-) 17:59:47 <supermop> well it could be simpler than that, but 17:59:47 <Wolf01> bbl 17:59:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:01:03 <supermop> if a train sprite can be randomly composited of 2-3 images, and if vehicle names could be generated like towns 18:01:29 <supermop> you could have vehicles that you do not yet recognize in each game 18:01:52 <supermop> assuming hp and intro date etc changes as well 18:02:33 <Islacrusez> one approach would be to build an entirely fictional tech tree and have their stats randomized (or perhaps procedurally generated might be a better term?); the graphics are technically secondary 18:03:23 <Islacrusez> you could also have a system where you pay a company to develop a design, unlocking retrofits that improve certain aspects of the design 18:03:32 <supermop> but i do not think there would be a way to have say, one game you have 4 electric locomotives over the course of 50 years, and the next game only 2 18:03:51 <Alkel_U3> that would be good. The graphics are important, imho, for the right feel 18:04:06 <supermop> Islacrusez: i dont think the idea of tech trees or research really helps openttd gameplay 18:04:26 <Islacrusez> tech tree is the wrong word, more like a timeline 18:04:44 <supermop> some railroads did in fact develop technology themselves, but it was never a case of "unlocking" anything 18:06:00 <supermop> for example, if got a 10B$ contract to build a railway tomorrow, i could lay miles and miles of track, or i could call up hitachi and go ahead buy a shinkansen 18:06:14 <supermop> i don't need to first figure out what a steam engine is 18:06:18 <Islacrusez> supermop: I'm using the term to represent a new technology being developed and thus being revealed to the player; no point in trying to surprise them if they can see all the retrofits ahead of time 18:07:02 <Alkel_U3> well, a tech tree from the manufacturing companis' points of view, right? They would just kinda at random decide, what area to advance next, so you may have a game with early advanced expensive el. trains and late diesels or vice versa, maybe some advancements to keep steam in the business longer. Right? 18:07:24 <Alberth> Islacrusez: in a newgrf, that is too complicated 18:07:31 <Alkel_U3> on an unrelated note, I need a new keabord :I 18:07:45 <supermop> well my main issue is less ambitious 18:07:55 <Alkel_U3> or learn to type 18:08:04 <Alberth> supermop: add more engines that you give to the player, and skip a few at random each time? 18:08:18 <supermop> Alberth: yes 18:08:27 <Alberth> eg have 8 or 10, and give 4or5 18:08:57 <Alberth> openttd also does a bit stat randomizing, not sure how much 18:09:27 <supermop> now, if i play default, by the late 70s/early 80s i know not to buy anymore manley morels because i can just feel that Dash around the corner 18:09:58 <Alberth> oh, you actually bother about such things? :) 18:10:14 <Alberth> I just run autoreplace on everything every now and then 18:10:31 <supermop> in 94 etc, i often went bankrupt early in game, the first time i even saw a DMU i had my mind blown 18:10:49 <supermop> then blown again the first time i got far enough to see the monorail 18:10:57 <Alberth> ah yes, the early games :) 18:11:03 <Islacrusez> Alkel_U3, yeah pretty much like that 18:11:42 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car#/media/File:New_Haven_140_Unique_Budd.jpg 18:12:30 <supermop> if the game could randomly introduce "DMU 1" with a 50s style locomotive cab one game, that would be exciting 18:12:55 <Islacrusez> Alberth, considering how much we managed to do before OTTD became a necessity, I doubt it's impossible; economy of effort is another matter though 18:13:24 <Islacrusez> I'm also speaking more generally, implementation is rarely the same as the concept that it follows 18:14:15 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:51 <Alberth> hola 18:18:51 <Islacrusez> having more engines than needed is certainly one way of doing it; if that can be made to work then it could perhaps be refined so that certain combinations become more or less likely (for flavour/balance reasons); and if one really wanted to go nuts you could design a set of alternate "solutions" to the problems that every engine made in reality was designed to solve, essentially creating a new alternate history of locomotion 18:18:52 <Islacrusez> every time the game was played 18:19:10 <Islacrusez> and isn't that what we play the game for? 18:22:23 <Alberth> nope, I don't :) 18:22:57 <supermop> well there is also the issue that any railroad witht e insane profits that you make in the game could develop and commission any type of bespoke train it desired 18:23:53 <Alberth> I always desire fast maglevs early in the game for my back bone, never happened thus far :p 18:23:59 <supermop> or it could just build new luxury apartments for everyone right next to their place of work so that they do not even need a train 18:24:22 <Alberth> and let others get my money, nah 18:25:10 <supermop> it seems though that this idea only really has legs if it is somewhat likely to randomly screw over players some games 18:26:32 <supermop> like release an early prototype channel maglev, player spends billions building maglev network, then only release transrapid style maglevs from then on 18:27:13 <supermop> or, say have only a kirby paul until 2010 18:27:49 <Islacrusez> abandoning the idea of directing the research in any way (for now at least; I have) 18:28:06 <Islacrusez> it shouldn't be too crazy, or at least it should have a setting for crazy 18:28:54 <Islacrusez> because I have to say, a ______ challenge sounds hilarious 18:29:43 <supermop> Islacrusez: much of what makes trains and railways so fascinating and idiosyncratic is a result of nearly 200 years of frequent bad decisions and mistakes 18:30:36 <Islacrusez> supermop, all we're doing is looking at those bad decisions and mistakes (as well as good decisions) and looking to see what other choices there were 18:30:46 <Islacrusez> and then randomising the results 18:31:00 <Islacrusez> so you get about as many good and bad decisions, they're just in different places 18:31:04 <supermop> people out there love steam trains, but a time traveller from today would have gone all in on electrics from the 1890s on 18:32:02 <supermop> basically if you could direct the research with modern knowledge, you would always make the "best" choice 18:33:21 <supermop> and it gets even more boring than knowing that your uu37 soon is made obsolete by a floss 47 18:33:49 <Islacrusez> that's kinda the point I'm addressing, isn't it? 18:38:13 <Islacrusez> unless I'm missing something? 18:38:15 <Islacrusez> o.O 18:38:41 <supermop> not sure 18:38:47 <frosch123> moin 18:38:52 <supermop> yo frosch123 18:41:24 <supermop> Alberth: dozens of unused vehicles seems like best way, but then grf gets huge unless they have some way of reusing some standard graphic elements 18:42:26 <Alberth> "huge" is bigger then 200MB, with yetis around :) 18:42:44 <Alberth> and zbase :p 18:43:17 <Samu> done! 18:43:27 <Alberth> but yeah, re-use of parts would be great, as it's a simple way to make loads of different engines 18:44:17 <supermop> esp if everything is same length 18:44:25 <Islacrusez> if you go with the alternative options theory, you could get away with simply reusing a lot of sprites from mutually exclusive engines; though ultimately modular engines would be very useful for a number of reasons 18:45:20 <supermop> cut every vehicle into 3 parts or so - 25% cab, 50% car body, 25% other cab 18:47:12 <supermop> where vehicle is "first generation diesel", chose 1 cab from list "mk1 cabs" chose mk1 carbody, etc 18:47:19 <Islacrusez> supermop, you could use the same technique to make vehicles of different length; though it may make some trickery to make it not throw a fit 18:48:02 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@95.232.234.120] has joined #openttd 18:50:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:15 <supermop> hmm my tiny 3d printed monorail jewelry has too much slack in the coupler 18:58:24 <Samu> hey Alberth https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkxkubyo7 - I am in doubt where exactly to place that IsDead function 18:58:38 <supermop> the space between the car and the 'bellows' can vary from 0-2mm depending on if you are pushing or pulling it along the track 18:58:41 <Samu> that's the full patch with everything already edited to make use of IsDead 18:58:56 <supermop> that is a lot of slack when the car is only 1cm long 18:59:04 <Samu> I'm not 100% sure about where IsDead should be placed, any advice? 19:01:31 <Alberth> seems fine to me 19:01:42 <Alberth> it misses a description of the slot parameter 19:03:26 <Alberth> everybody can find it, without forward declaration, you can't get it much better than that 19:05:05 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:16 <andythenorth> o/ 19:07:51 <supermop> maybe i need alittle cotter pin or something to hold the coupler tight to the car 19:08:02 <andythenorth> cat iz 19:08:17 <Alberth> o/ 19:09:58 <supermop> yo andythenorth 19:11:25 <Islacrusez> supermop, apparently I'm an idiot and can't read 19:11:38 <supermop> hm 19:11:38 <Islacrusez> I now understand what you meant 19:11:39 <supermop> ? 19:12:26 <Islacrusez> and I agree, too much agency in that sort of tech progression would be bad 19:12:40 <Islacrusez> kinda like rushing go-karts in RCT 19:15:20 <Islacrusez> and thinking about it, balancing that would be more trouble than it's worth; you'd need a civ3-esque tech tree and that'd not fit the game at all 19:21:50 <Islacrusez> I'm imagining creating a tech "tree", where you map the tech progression through history and with every new engine, design, or technology, you go through all the choices made against the requirements to produce that design; then you look at the other options, and make your tech "tree" choose randomly (weighted by previous decisions perhaps) as to which decision it makes... then you build the tree to completion, and make smaller 19:21:50 <Islacrusez> iterative jumps in designs more likely but larger jumps possible; a number of designs would be mutually exclusive (or a high likelihood of being so) to prevent spamming up the world with similar designs for the same uses... 19:21:59 <Islacrusez> In theory you could go monorail before you go diesel xD 19:23:52 <Islacrusez> in fact you could complete the game and never see a diesel engine, which would be amusing 19:27:12 * andythenorth wonders how you could short-cut that 19:27:20 <andythenorth> thereâs probably a way to get the result without much complexity 19:28:15 <Islacrusez> the easy way is to fake it; come up with those scenarios and decisions and requirements based on the tech tree you want 19:28:24 <Islacrusez> cuts out all of that pesky research ;) 19:29:04 <Alberth> randomly add a bit, certain bit combinations enable adding an engine 19:29:46 <Alberth> if "sufficient" bits are on, make the engine available 19:30:21 <Alberth> could be problematic on eg model lifetime 19:30:51 <Alberth> but that also holds for the complicated idea 19:31:14 <Alberth> could add bits until next engine released 19:31:14 <Islacrusez> the complicated idea just needs a lot of protections like any procedurally generated anything 19:31:51 <Islacrusez> though the idea of a procedurally generated tech tree is a weird one 19:32:39 <Islacrusez> it sounds fun though, I'd love to see it done 19:33:35 <Islacrusez> you'd probably want to change the probability of a new tech/design being developed, increasing it as existing designs get old 19:34:10 <Islacrusez> the in-world analogue being designs being seen as unsuitable over time and new tenders being placed for better ones 19:35:43 <Alberth> nah, just add more bits to represent each piece of progress 19:35:58 <Alberth> nn 19:36:00 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:38:11 <Islacrusez> I suspect that this is what the relationship between a designer and a developer feels like 19:54:42 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-199-14.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:33 *** m4rek [~m4rek@host-92-20-172-85.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:22 <m4rek> well, gotta run a download and apparently even IRC won't cope with what's left of the bandwidth 19:58:29 *** m4rek [~m4rek@host-92-20-172-85.as13285.net] has quit [] 19:59:36 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-243-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:26 <supermop> i wonder if this is safe for MP? 20:11:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:12:51 <Samu> back 20:12:55 <Samu> i was having dinner 20:15:40 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:48 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@95.232.234.120] has joined #openttd 20:18:08 <Samu> oh, right, the description for IsDead, i nearly forgot about it 20:19:28 <Samu> description kinda depends on the structure 20:23:34 <Samu> it is compatible with the 3 windows that make use of it. debug window checks if the selected script is dead. config window checks if the selected slot is dead. parameters window checks if the parameters of the currently selected script is dead. 20:23:56 <Samu> but they're all compatible 20:24:10 <Samu> maybe i shouldn't call it "slot" 20:25:30 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:25:33 <drac_boy> hi 20:25:34 <Samu> hmm, id? 20:26:11 <drac_boy> just curious but anyone here from england/europe area and able to name a particular large rail books publisher? (I mean I already know of Platform 5 from england but still, just curious) 20:26:14 <Samu> meh, slot it is, it's the least confusing name 20:27:55 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:27 <Samu> it can return 4 types of true's 20:30:32 <Samu> :P 20:32:48 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@95.232.234.120] has joined #openttd 20:42:26 <Samu> Description: * Check whether a Game Script is not running, or if it is running, if it is dead. Check whether an AI slot is not started, or if it is started, it is not an AI, or if it is an AI, if it is dead. 20:43:14 <Samu> pfff 20:44:50 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkbvssddy 20:45:00 <Samu> every single outcome is useful 20:45:23 <Samu> that's why I'm having a hard time describing it 20:51:34 <Wolf01> I think that you should split it in more functions which do just one thing 20:51:45 <Wolf01> like IsAiDead() IsAiSlot() 20:52:30 <Wolf01> so if it's not an AI slot, it's not necessary to check if it's dead 20:53:17 <Wolf01> and you should ad asserts here and there to be sure to pass only the right thing 20:53:56 <Wolf01> for example you shouldn't pass a OWNER_DEITY slot to IsAiDead() 20:56:10 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:28 <drac_boy> hi sim :) 21:04:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:09:22 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 21:13:31 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:28 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 21:32:39 <sim-al2> hi 21:44:14 <drac_boy> how doing? 21:44:23 <Samu> i'm having a headache 21:44:30 <Samu> can't think 21:45:06 <Samu> i orchestrated a function too much that it's now too hard to describe it 21:46:04 * drac_boy unfunctions samu? :) 21:46:05 <drac_boy> hehe 21:46:50 <Samu> it works for what I intended it to do, but.... it's like a 5-in-1 function 21:48:06 <Samu> splitting it into 2 functions could mean.... larger lines on already large lines 21:49:04 <drac_boy> (I was just being a bit silly ofc) 21:49:50 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:50:08 <Samu> the function is used on 3 different struct's 21:50:20 <Samu> must think 21:50:40 <Samu> brb 21:52:57 <drac_boy> heh hm interesting http://www.strathwood.co.uk/ekmps/shops/admin9018/images/seventies-spotting-days-chasing-the-westerns-low-stocks-37-p.jpg 21:53:14 <drac_boy> its £20 anyhow 21:54:11 <sim-al2> Lol I didn't know they have opening engine room windows 21:54:28 <drac_boy> well sim..some of the locomotives actually had center doors 21:54:41 <drac_boy> or were you talking about the smoke instead? :) 21:55:14 <sim-al2> The guy hanging out of the middle, doesn't look like the door 21:56:02 <sim-al2> Doesn't look like they even have center doors" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Kentford_D1010_cropped.jpg 21:56:21 <drac_boy> ah...hm I had to check and I found a 52 outline .. its actually windows http://www.westernchampion.co.uk/photos/d1015-technical/western-elevations-646.jpg .. probably to make the engine walkways much less darker without having to bother with light bulbs 21:56:50 <drac_boy> the window location corresponds to the internals tho .. center window is inbetween the two engines .. and the outward windows are between engine and cab 21:56:55 <sim-al2> Yeah lots of locomotives of the 50s-70s have them, I wonder why they disapppeared anyway 21:57:22 <drac_boy> regulations may be to point at me think (especially only 1 or 2 person on a locomotive compared to before) 21:57:54 <drac_boy> heck even on emd geeps it wasn't too unusual to find at least one or more men just standing around on the walkway while train was underway 21:58:49 <Wolf01> oh, it's history channel time :) 21:59:13 * drac_boy whumps wolf01 with a pillow 21:59:14 <drac_boy> :P 21:59:40 <sim-al2> I don't know of any regulations on that. It seems cost would be a more pressing reason, with automatic light timers and stuff 22:00:19 <sim-al2> Of course, the modern electircs have center walkways, since they have so much equipment 22:01:34 <sim-al2> Hmm, the Chinese diesels seem to have them: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/China_Railways_DF11G_20110402_399.jpg 22:02:33 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:23 <drac_boy> that looks like a dual unit russia-style to me :) 22:04:07 <sim-al2> Yeah, they seem to like those. The high power electrics for coal haulage are also built that way 22:04:22 <drac_boy> btw looking more through the catalogue booklet here I also found this which probably is amusing gift idea to some steam lover in an english country perhaps heh: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51K5jFHiRlL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg 22:04:24 <sim-al2> However, most of the locomotives are still single units 22:05:45 <drac_boy> hm too bad the catalogue doesn't seem to list any books for ivatt steam locomotives (I wouldn't had mind thinking about ordering one) 22:07:57 <Samu> split IsValidAiID from IsDead 22:08:17 <Samu> or just IsValid 22:08:17 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:08:22 <Samu> for both AI and GS 22:08:41 <Samu> IsStarted 22:08:48 <Samu> instead of IsValid 22:09:12 <drac_boy> ah.. bluebell railway for £5 clearance .. too bad its not something I would want to read much 22:11:16 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 about 'single units' .. did you know that one of the green russia electric locomotive (I'll have to look it up later re which one) actually was semi-permanently coupled together together with the unused cab being boarded up and corridors added 22:11:24 <drac_boy> only a few examples were done 22:11:46 <drac_boy> kinda a bit unusual move but I guess if they often needed the extra power .. this seem to make sense 22:12:01 <sim-al2> Yeah, I guess they didn't want to change the body work 22:12:49 <drac_boy> well it was only a few of them too...so probably not worth the cost of new units ;) 22:12:54 <sim-al2> I think they actually did that on serveral types. I remember the M62 having it more often, there were even a few 4 packs 22:13:22 <drac_boy> reminds me of old emd geeps having their doors sealed and some windows boarded up to basically turn them into slave units 22:13:30 <sim-al2> I assume the assembly line just cranked them, and the windows were plated over afterwards 22:13:55 <Samu> arf.... it's too difficult to split this function 22:13:57 <drac_boy> yeah M62 looks like the exactly same thing http://www.freetexturesblueprints.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_locomotive-2M622C_M62.gif 22:17:48 <sim-al2> Oh, the North Koreans made some interesting mods to a few M62s 22:18:36 <sim-al2> And Azerbaijan too, apparently 22:18:38 <sim-al2> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Electric_locomotive_at_Baku_Station.JPG 22:18:54 <drac_boy> heh...good name for a book "disconnected! broken links in britian's rail policy" .. it doesn't mention so but I suspect its mainly about the breech axe era too :) 22:19:19 <drac_boy> (I think the gov probably somewhat forgot that small lines actually feeds the big heavy lines) 22:20:22 <drac_boy> anyway sim..sorry about this but have to afk to grill some supper so have fun till another time ok? :) 22:20:29 <sim-al2> Ok later 22:20:35 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 22:26:04 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pna6tfy4s 22:26:10 <Samu> 2 functions now 22:31:12 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:34:00 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 22:34:14 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:21 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 22:46:31 <Samu> assert (IsStarted(slot)); 22:50:22 <Samu> static inline bool or static bool? 23:04:23 <Wolf01> at least try to understand what are you asking 23:06:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 23:12:12 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 23:15:24 <Samu> i can't do this split at least now 23:16:15 <Samu> well, i could, but i'm tired, and the function already works 23:16:52 <Samu> it would also mean, wherever it would be used, splitting it into 2 functions would only increase the size of those lines 23:17:12 <Samu> and those lines are already quite sized 23:17:56 <Samu> are these comments clear? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pcutdxwf1 23:18:04 <Wolf01> just not saying that a function which just returns the result of another function is useless 23:18:30 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-199-14.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:19:15 <Wolf01> it makes some sense 23:21:36 <Samu> ty ty 23:28:05 <Samu> AssumeDead? 23:28:10 <Samu> instead of IsDead 23:28:38 <Samu> AssumedDead 23:29:48 <Wolf01> IsDead is right 23:33:21 <Samu> ;) 23:48:01 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-199-14.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:41 <Wolf01> also, good night 23:54:43 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd []