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00:02:41 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:51 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:13:47 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:16:18 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has joined #openttd 00:18:35 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:20 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377807.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:03 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:27:03 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 00:28:21 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377807.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 00:56:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B3FE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:35 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 02:06:36 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@host-92-20-160-214.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: if anyone's wondering, I've called the class "Tyrion Lannister (TM)"] 02:44:59 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 02:45:51 *** supermop_ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:03:39 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:50:23 <Flygon> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=73727 I mean, I admire the ambition... 03:50:25 <Flygon> But without Finland 03:50:30 <Flygon> It looks rather... uhm 03:50:37 <Flygon> Adult. 03:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how finland would help with that... 03:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but i also thought whole scandinavia would be better 03:51:36 <Flygon> Without OpenTTD showing national borders, the sausage effect is far less noticable :P 03:53:12 <Flygon> Also, Finland is, like 03:53:13 <Flygon> Cute 03:53:18 <Flygon> In an angry stabby sort of way 03:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda disagree 03:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> in all "depictions" i know, finland was the ballsack of scandinavia's penis... 03:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's something you cannot unsee... 03:55:10 <Flygon> Yes, but you can't see it as easily without the national borders :DD 04:01:47 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host109-148-27-197.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:07:50 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host109-148-28-26.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:56 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:17:05 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 06:23:19 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 06:42:41 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 07:07:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has joined #openttd 07:20:11 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has joined #openttd 07:20:11 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:11 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377807.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:29:24 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 07:31:50 *** Extrems [super@presper.ipv6.extremscorner.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:07 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:34:42 *** Extrems [super@presper.ipv6.extremscorner.org] has joined #openttd 07:39:16 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377807.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 07:45:06 <andythenorth> o/ 08:03:40 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:22:03 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 08:27:34 <andythenorth> hmm 08:28:04 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 08:38:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B3FE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:40:50 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d822ac3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 08:51:54 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:52:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B3FE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:29:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:42 <Wolf01> o/ 09:47:53 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:47 <V453000> o/ 10:02:10 <Wolf01> oh, I tought the entire factoro tean went rogue... :D 10:02:14 <Wolf01> *factorio 10:02:29 <Wolf01> *totoro 10:02:45 <peter1138> ? 10:02:56 <Wolf01> hype 10:03:53 *** tvel [~tvel@217.174.159.226] has joined #openttd 10:03:55 <V453000> not but I managed my new personal record of 21 hours of work per day XD 10:04:32 <Wolf01> you are crazy... the entire team, take your time please 10:05:09 <V453000> I already have some plans for the weekend so want to get the train wagon finished asap :) am pretty much done 10:09:53 <Wolf01> I would have liked to have other plans for the weekend too... but I was ordered to work at the polling station for the elections, I hope they'll pay well 10:10:05 <peter1138> ordered? hmm 10:10:25 <Wolf01> yes, there aren't volunteers so they pick up random people 10:10:58 <Wolf01> and if you don't have a valid reason you must go to work 10:11:35 <Wolf01> and I don't have a valid reason, because "I'm reassembling lego sets" it isn't 10:12:42 <peter1138> heh 10:12:55 <V453000> what 10:12:58 <V453000> where are you from? 10:13:05 <Wolf01> italy 10:13:15 <Wolf01> what do you expect? 10:13:53 <V453000> idk, based on this volunteer system I expect something less democratic 10:14:14 <V453000> in our country people volunteer to do this shit, probably cause it is ~ok payed 10:14:27 <V453000> as a part time job for students it's nice 10:14:37 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 10:16:27 <Wolf01> yes, that's the same here, but heh.. not enough volunteers this time, the polling will be on sunday and the poll count will go throught the night, people need to go to work or school on monday, so they will resort to unemployed people 10:17:47 <V453000> g 10:17:54 <V453000> 0.13 hype! 10:18:19 <Wolf01> hype 10:21:17 <V453000> I honestly can't wait to play ... the stuff I tested so far is great 10:21:28 <V453000> the new inserters actually do add some more variety 10:22:45 <V453000> and trainz, dem trainz 10:23:15 <Wolf01> autorail hype 10:27:13 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:55 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:32 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:37 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has joined #openttd 10:29:58 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 10:34:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B3FE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:43:56 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:43:59 <Samu> hi 10:46:50 <Samu> I'm not happy with Start AI, Stop AI, Reload AI 3-in-1 functionality 10:46:58 <Samu> gonna have to change 10:48:37 <Samu> more specifically, I don't liek accidentaly removal of dead AI Companies when there's dead AIs in the moving slots 10:50:21 <Samu> before I get lost, I am posting here my ideas. Reload AI functionality is to be removed. It resorts to Stop AI. 10:51:16 <Samu> Disable the ability to directly change configs of dead AIs 10:52:04 <Samu> Instead, Stop it first, to make the Select AI button enabled 10:52:39 <Samu> in this manner, there will be no more accidental removal of dead AI companies 10:53:38 <Samu> moving slots will only swap between non-AI slots 10:56:35 <peter1138> Any idea what this guy is going on about? 10:57:07 <Wolf01> redoing the ai/scripts UI 11:00:57 <Samu> peter1138: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694 11:05:19 *** Leanden_ [~oftc-webi@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 11:05:25 <Leanden_> Hello all 11:05:31 <Leanden_> any NML experts in here? 11:06:02 <Leanden_> I have a question around loading of trains 11:16:57 <planetmaker> you should simply ask the question and hope your meta-question's answer is 'yes' 11:20:34 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has left #openttd [Connection reset by peer] 11:22:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has joined #openttd 11:23:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:50 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:29:35 <Leanden_> I'm sure i've seen this in a set before but can't find any details on it, is there anyway to make it so that a passenger wagon can load and unload simultaneously? It doesnt make sense to me that you'd have to wait for all the passengers to get off before others can get on. 11:34:01 <andythenorth> for a single vehicle, no, afaik 11:34:17 <andythenorth> I am not going to go and read the station code for you though :) 11:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:34:43 <peter1138> Hmm, is it worth risking something from China with the branding... CooSpo? 11:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, have you ever been to a train station? 11:34:53 <andythenorth> if you have a âvehicleâ made up of multiple vehicles, then yes 11:35:01 <andythenorth> as per CETS or Iron Horse 11:35:12 <andythenorth> but itâs not worth it just to get a load/unload trick 11:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if people try to enter before everyone left, that generally causes chaos 11:37:36 *** Leanden_ [~oftc-webi@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:00 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:06 <Wolf01> V, steam disables the beta program at every update of factorio, do you know if it is intended or happens to others? 11:57:27 <Wolf01> I just figured out there was a 0.12.34 update out since 5 days ago 11:58:59 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:03:58 <Wolf01> also I have a little suggestion which could be good for later 0.13 or 0.14, I know there are mods doing this but it will really help to avoid cluttering the inventory/building interface: inserters and pipes built with various configurations by simply rotating them with R 12:17:20 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has joined #openttd 12:17:37 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:02 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:19:09 <peter1138> I know nothing about Factorio. Are their devs here? 12:20:07 <Wolf01> no, just one of their graphics designers 12:26:09 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 12:26:33 <V453000> I don't even understand what do you mean :D 12:27:22 <Wolf01> something like this http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/side-inserters-by-gotlag 12:27:41 <Wolf01> but with 1 instead of 3 for each type 12:28:11 <Wolf01> also http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/rotatable-pipes 12:28:39 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the train staff get angry with you in the subway if you try to get on while people are still exiting 12:28:41 <Wolf01> just leave out the pumps part 12:29:45 <V453000> so basically you want side inserters 12:29:51 <V453000> just in 1 entity 12:29:59 <Wolf01> yeah 12:30:05 <V453000> that is never going to happen 12:30:12 <V453000> and I hate that idea tbh 12:30:12 <Wolf01> "want", I would like 12:33:15 <V453000> 1. it totally breaks the "first sight clarity" of the game. If you look at inserter now, you can see what it does, where from and to. 2. it removes parts of the puzzle and moves them to "select by gui" which is just a terrible concept, 3. same bullshit as "place to closest belt line" etc. This thing purely belongs to mods because it is just another "feature" that people can think of, but in fact it actually removes interesting gameplay for o 12:34:11 <peter1138> for o 12:37:05 <V453000> ? 12:37:09 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:16 <Wolf01> I can understand the puzzle game logic to give some challenge on building things, but I don't agree with 1, as you need to use the "info" mode for almost everything, and that shows the pickup and unload points of inserters 12:37:18 <V453000> did it cut the message for you? 12:37:23 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 12:37:26 <Wolf01> yes 12:37:34 <V453000> it actually removes interesting gameplay for oddly convenient features 12:37:55 <V453000> yes, and as much as the info should be in main view, not just alt mode 12:39:33 <Wolf01> changes like this should have the same weight as when ottd introduced the foundations thing 12:40:47 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 12:41:03 <V453000> openttd behaves quite a bit differently in this I think, and mainly in openttd it doesn't break any of the first sight effect 12:41:04 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@host-92-20-160-214.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 12:42:04 <Wolf01> it's just "let the user have more control on what the game automatically does", at least for the pipes part, for inserters is "it's a robot arm, why couldn't it be programmed for a different unload position?" 12:43:00 <Wolf01> but foundations in ottd enabled the user to save lot of space and terraforming 12:43:47 <V453000> well in openttd space matters, in factorio it doesn't 12:45:18 <Wolf01> it does in the inventory 12:45:24 <Wolf01> it isn't infinite 12:45:58 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has joined #openttd 12:46:13 <Wolf01> I'm fine if it would be possible with a mod too, it doesn't need to be in the core 12:46:24 <Wolf01> so everyone is happy 12:46:42 <V453000> the inserters are 12:46:55 <V453000> the pipes could have a bit more functions yes 12:47:08 <V453000> but pipe control is a mod too 12:49:22 <Wolf01> uhm, this could be a good one: http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/k-l-inserters 12:51:16 <Wolf01> it's a bit overdone but I wouldn't simply use the diagonals 12:54:10 <Samu> CluelessPlus is now crashing with "excessive CPU usage in valuator function"? 12:54:25 <Samu> cluelessplus was stable 12:55:34 <Islacrusez> I think some of the restrictions are very much part of the design; means you have to think more carefully about your layout; on the other hand, play your game your way - Factorio has much of the same essence as Minecraft 12:56:11 <Islacrusez> which is amusing, since there's dozens of clones of MC, and the only game to recapture the essence of it is a completely unrelated game 12:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there is always a fine line in gamedesign between making an interesting challenge and just throwing bullshit in the way to make things "difficult" 12:57:49 <Samu> I'm getting some AIs crashing with this "excessive CPU usage in valuator function", and they're just starting 12:58:01 <Wolf01> let's take the minecraft example, do you know they added the auto climb 1 block feature only in the last version? 12:58:03 <Samu> like finding a location for HQ :( what changed? 12:58:25 <Wolf01> while the pocket edition had it since... ever 12:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> they added an auto-climb 1 block? 12:58:52 <Wolf01> and don't tell me the jump button was too out of reach in the pocket edition 12:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue about minecraft pocket 13:00:05 <Wolf01> http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/16w20a <- A new 'Auto-jump' toggle has been added, which automatically makes the player jump when running towards a one block tall obstacle. Enabled by default, can be disabled in Options. 13:01:55 <Islacrusez> pfft 13:02:02 <Islacrusez> I'd have preferred a dirt halfstep 13:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> dirt/grass slabs would be handy 13:02:34 <Wolf01> that's one of the things people were asking for since the alpha 13:02:45 <Wolf01> just mod it... 13:02:57 <Wolf01> like the player API mod :Q___ 13:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if the game could autogenerate with slabs, so you don't have to climb everything 13:03:16 <Islacrusez> modifying terraingen? I have better things to do with my life than end it early 13:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, "just mod it" is a terrible answer 13:03:32 <Wolf01> but then the game will be a lot easier, since jumping eats your hunger bar 13:03:34 <andythenorth> hmm 13:03:40 <andythenorth> I hate Road Hog less now 13:03:57 <Wolf01> nice :) 13:04:07 <Islacrusez> hungerbar wasn't part of the original game, so any losses to that aren't a huge deal 13:04:08 <andythenorth> it takes a few clear days to get back into pixel art 13:04:31 <Islacrusez> also balancing your game around dodgy mechanics is a bad idea 13:04:34 <Wolf01> dirt slabs were in the pre-alpha 13:04:57 <andythenorth> V453000: more rosters in my vehicle sets, or more cargo sprites? o_O 13:05:49 <V453000> cargo 13:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> definitely cargo 13:06:54 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, also I coulnd't understand the snow layers thing, do you know if it was added to the core game or not? I see no difference when it snows :( 13:07:13 <Islacrusez> snow layers thing? 13:07:19 <Samu> there is a problem with this fix -Fix [FS#6473]: [Script] Kill scripts, when a non-suspendable valuator call takes way too long. 13:07:30 <Samu> AIs that never used to crash now start on starting 13:07:34 <Samu> :( 13:07:46 <Islacrusez> most recently I've only played TFC, which runs on 1.7.2; snow does build up but I don't know if it's one of TFC's additions or if it's from vanilla 13:08:03 <Wolf01> oh, it's only in pocket edition 13:08:05 <Samu> now crash* on starting 13:08:10 <Wolf01> http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Snow_layer#Snowfall 13:09:24 <Wolf01> but they say it's possible to create thicker snow layers in pc edition 13:09:33 <peter1138> It is. 13:10:21 <Samu> NoCAB which is usually a CPU hog, doesn't crash 13:10:26 <Samu> something's wrong 13:10:54 <Wolf01> it seem the pc edition needs to keep up with the pocket edition now, 0.12 brought on pocket almost everything 13:12:16 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@80.88.255.44] has joined #openttd 13:13:46 <Islacrusez> can we blame M$? 13:13:56 <Wolf01> I don't think so 13:14:19 <Wolf01> they started the pocket edition before M$ 13:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> can always blame M$ 13:14:44 <Wolf01> maybe we could blame M$ if they let pc version die 13:14:53 <Samu> anyone? have you tried NoCAB with that -Fix [FS#6473]? 13:15:01 <Samu> it's unplayable 13:15:37 <Samu> stalls all the time 13:15:50 <Wolf01> meh, now I don't know if I should replace all the inserters I have with the mod ones... I don't have enough space in the inventory, too many blueprints 13:17:14 <Samu> gonna try release x64 13:17:27 <Samu> that fix broke something 13:17:34 <Samu> at least in debug x64 13:17:37 <Wolf01> mmh the fast inserters are way too fast, unbalanced :| 13:17:50 <Wolf01> *the mod's fast inserters 13:19:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:19:46 <Islacrusez> the only thing I'd probably ever mod about inserters is to return them to current-version functionality after the next update goes live 13:19:47 <Alkel_U3> well, lately I got used to Homeworld's doubly fast fast inserters - I still feel a little guilty about that :-) 13:20:27 <Wolf01> 90° should be able to take 2 items in the same time of the straigt one, but it seem it takes 4 items 13:20:42 <Wolf01> *straight 13:20:42 <Islacrusez> Alkel_U3, what's wrong with just using two fast inserters? 13:21:23 <Alkel_U3> Islacrusez: most of the times nothing, it's just that I play with Homeworld :-) 13:21:31 <Islacrusez> scrub :P 13:22:35 <Wolf01> ha! z-index bug 13:22:44 <Alkel_U3> I'll definitely lay off most of the mods for the first .13 game to get the raw experience 13:23:07 <Islacrusez> my current playthrough I'm trying to play environmentalist; so everything that will take mods is running on -80% power consumption, factory is entirely solar, and I cut down as few trees as possible 13:24:17 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 13:24:22 <Wolf01> underground pipe is drawn over the underground belt: http://imgur.com/qj99Oud 13:24:25 <V453000> in my book environmentalist is the wrong approach :P 13:24:31 <Alkel_U3> except for the trees, that's my usual approach, too 13:24:48 <V453000> yeah, having a 0.13 vanilla game sounds good 13:25:00 <Islacrusez> it makes for an interesting experience, since space is at more of a premium, and you're far more likely to need to think about layout of belts, assemblers and inserters; if that means three fast inserters for one material, you're going to need to get your other materials from the opposite side 13:26:00 <Wolf01> V, when will you make moving shadows? The "sun" looks like a fading light bulb with static shadows :P 13:26:15 <Islacrusez> I've also increased the density and size of material deposits (increasing oil to max) because the default values (for oil in particular) make train lines too nomadic for my tastes 13:26:16 <V453000> XD probably never 13:26:23 <V453000> but yeah interesting suggestion 13:26:34 <V453000> if we had separate atlas for shadow which would be highly compressed, might work 13:26:35 <Wolf01> even shadows at night... 13:26:36 <Islacrusez> oil fields run out so fast on default, it's stoopid 13:26:38 <V453000> as it wouldn't be too much 13:26:59 <Alkel_U3> however, I have the resources spread apart very long distances, so I distribute light oil to the mining stations to power them with the oil steam boiler from ks_power - feels fun :-) 13:27:18 <V453000> but in general the shadows are probably best being in the way they are to give the best plastic feeling 13:27:21 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, just generate a map with high density oil fields (and stone fields too) 13:27:42 <Samu> oh well, forgive me 13:27:59 <Islacrusez> I generated a more appropriate map for this one; I bumped the density, size and rarity up by one, and up to max for oil 13:28:05 <Samu> only seems to make debug slow 13:28:11 <Samu> release isn't as slow 13:28:19 <V453000> btw the new map gen seems to be awesome :P just saying 13:28:36 <Alkel_U3> hype. 13:28:43 <Wolf01> hype 13:29:36 <Islacrusez> means that a train line can actually stay in use for a while, and especially becomes viable for oil; means I don't have to sit around trying to pump oil at 0.1/s and then cover it with speed boosters *rolls eyes* 13:30:05 <Wolf01> so V, you are telling me you can't understand how that inserter works? http://imgur.com/og71ho1 13:30:28 <V453000> it's hacky 13:31:05 <Islacrusez> waaaaaaait a minute; inserters access three points, not just two 13:31:08 <Islacrusez> that's sneaky 13:31:32 <Wolf01> no, it can even load and unload from the same point 13:31:54 <Islacrusez> how'd you manage that? 13:31:56 <Wolf01> useless as a petrock but it can 13:32:03 <Wolf01> http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/k-l-inserters 13:32:19 <Islacrusez> ah, moddy-mod-modness 13:32:33 <peter1138> Is that a man standing there? 13:32:35 <Islacrusez> thought that was some creative use of vanilla 13:32:36 <Wolf01> oh, no, it can't 13:32:44 <Wolf01> the gui prevents saving that configuration 13:33:16 <Wolf01> it would have been cool to mark the checkbox to show it 13:34:25 <V453000> peter1138: that's the player 13:34:56 <Islacrusez> is there a mod for a lane-splitter? would be nice to have that in vanilla; like a 1x1 T-config belt section, which splits the lanes into opposite directions 13:35:15 <Wolf01> there was one for 0.11 13:35:28 <V453000> so like the same as splitter but 1x1? sounds dumb 13:35:40 <V453000> ah lane splitting 13:35:46 <V453000> I get your point 13:36:04 <V453000> "meh", I grown to like the underground belt splitting too much 13:36:20 <Islacrusez> eh, feels too much like a workaround 13:36:25 <V453000> and since mixed belts are generally better, it is nice to require the extra puzzle for them 13:36:30 <Islacrusez> also looks ugly as sin 13:36:46 <V453000> matter of taste 13:36:59 <Islacrusez> also takes up a lot of room if you need both the lanes to continue 13:37:11 <Islacrusez> smart inserters will do it, but that's a bit clunky 13:37:18 <V453000> but exactly 13:37:21 <V453000> you have multiple options 13:37:23 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/oVDReNu <- 13:37:41 <V453000> one of mall and weaker, one is bigger and perfect, both reach a rather powerful thing 13:37:56 <Wolf01> but as soon as something little change in the belts handling, you are sure this won't work anymore 13:37:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:59 <V453000> if you have a lane splitter, suddenly there is just 1 uninteresting option 13:38:38 <Wolf01> you can put a lane splitter as a research for mid-late game 13:38:59 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, is that an item sorter for a mixed belt? 13:39:01 <V453000> mod :) 13:39:18 <Islacrusez> V453000, shouldn't have to mod something in if it should already be in the game :P 13:39:19 <Wolf01> yeah 13:39:34 <V453000> that is the thing, it shouldn't 13:39:35 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, I believe they're patching that out by changing the splitter mechanics 13:39:38 <Wolf01> eh, V, lane splitter is not possible anymore even with mods 13:39:41 <V453000> it is another convenience feature which removes complexity 13:40:01 <V453000> that it isn't possible with mods doesn't mean it is a good idea to put it in the main game 13:40:27 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, they *did* appreciate the creativity in designing it though, which was cool 13:40:28 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@80.88.255.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:51 <V453000> I generally view one huge difference between openttd and factorio - openttd has very few pieces (like 10?) with which you construct the whole train game. Factorio has like hundred of pieces with which you construct the whole factory. 13:40:52 <Islacrusez> V453000, it doesn't add complexity though 13:40:52 <Wolf01> once you understand the concept it's easy, but it's a delicate contraption 13:41:10 <V453000> having less features output variety of constructions is a good thing 13:41:33 <Islacrusez> V453000, having all the tools available is important too 13:41:49 <V453000> it's a puzzle, having everything isn't always the best 13:41:57 <Islacrusez> V453000, wanna go back to pre- pre-signals? pre- PBS? 13:42:01 <V453000> it is similar shit to "signals in tunnels"in openttd 13:42:15 <V453000> that is completely different Islacrusez 13:42:16 <Wolf01> ehm, V... you have inserter, belt (with underground), pipe (with underground), factory, rail, all other things are just different shapes of the same things 13:42:25 <V453000> presignals and PBS add stuff that other things can't do at all 13:42:40 <V453000> each of them has a distinct use in various situations 13:42:48 <Islacrusez> V453000, it's exactly the same 13:43:11 <V453000> lane splitting is already possible, you would just add a cheat tile which does it in 1 square 13:43:14 <Islacrusez> V453000, if you can't use a lane splitter, you just bring in a different belt; same as if you can't make a junction you just bring in a different line 13:43:24 <Wolf01> 2 squares 13:43:29 <Islacrusez> 3 13:43:34 <V453000> still 13:43:41 <Islacrusez> technically 4, but you get the idea 13:43:48 <V453000> the smallest versions of the current one can take like 5 tiles I believe 13:43:52 <V453000> which is kind of fine as well? : P 13:44:02 <Islacrusez> you need an input, two outputs, and the tile itself 13:44:18 <Wolf01> http://www.factoriomods.com/mods/belt-utilities 13:44:49 <Islacrusez> what about depot scheduling, replacing the old forced-depot-signaling workaround? 13:45:09 <Islacrusez> you could already force a train to go to a depot, why was it added as a go-to option? 13:45:22 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:44 <V453000> that I classify as utility tasks, not actual gameplay 13:46:59 <Wolf01> it was gameplay when it wasn't automatized 13:47:10 <V453000> depotting trains is pure bullshit 13:47:13 <V453000> that's just slave labour 13:47:25 <Wolf01> that's why they removed it from locomotion 13:47:26 <V453000> and scheduled depotting allows refit and other shit 13:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yaay... youtube broke the subscription list... no matter how often i click on "list mode", it stays in "grid mode" 13:49:46 <Islacrusez> so you're telling me that because you're proud of some hacky little contraption that doesn't even make sense, I should be forced to either do the same or bring in another conveyor line, which is a utility task 13:49:47 <Wolf01> isn't the underground belt lane blocking abuse a total bullshit too? I would like to have a decent dedicated feature instead of abusing on a misterious feature of the game 13:50:01 <Islacrusez> ^ 13:51:07 <Wolf01> I could even stay there all the day grabbing the materials from a mixed belt with "F" and move them manually on the right crates 13:51:19 <V453000> if the graphics were hinting the functionality more, would you be fine with it? 13:51:32 <V453000> adding a new entity for no new functionality is not great 13:52:06 <Islacrusez> adding something which creates a functionality that previously had to be obtained by exploits IS 13:52:07 <Wolf01> the underground belt entrances is a misuse and even hard to achieve sometimes 13:52:28 <V453000> should everything be easy to achieve? 13:52:36 <V453000> use bots anywhere if you want easy to achieve? 13:52:39 <Wolf01> because the game tries to make a working underground belt with entrance and exit 13:53:06 <Wolf01> as it's done now it's like building only a bridgehead in ottd 13:53:25 <Islacrusez> <Eddi|zuHause> there is always a fine line in gamedesign between making an interesting challenge and just throwing bullshit in the way to make things "difficult" 13:53:38 <Wolf01> I would add a splitter entity and make the exit of the underground belt mandatory once you placed the entrance 13:54:21 <Wolf01> I can't see any reason for having only an entrance or only an exit besides the abuse of the lane blocking 13:54:46 <Islacrusez> Factorio is very clear on where it expect the challenge to be, and makes all other parts of the experience as easy as possible 13:55:01 <V453000> you can line block AND use it as underground belt to move shit somewhere? 13:55:29 <Islacrusez> now you're just stretching 13:55:32 <Wolf01> line block is a bad feature imho. 13:55:47 <Wolf01> it should block bot the lines 13:56:04 <V453000> you can block both the lines with circuit networks now, yes 13:56:15 <Wolf01> the graphics shows it block the entire perpendicular belt 13:56:18 <Islacrusez> V453000, being deliberately dense? 13:57:11 <V453000> the graphics are kind of on the edge, it barely makes sense but works 13:57:18 <V453000> dense? 13:57:48 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/ZQy1fUp now show me how I'm supposed to even think this contraption will work 13:58:22 <V453000> that's why I asked if you would accept the feature if the visual explanation was better 13:58:58 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has left #openttd [Connection reset by peer] 13:59:22 <Wolf01> no, because it will stay as "entrance", and entrance means entrance, it's like you have a double door on a building with one door closed and state that the door is "one way" 13:59:36 <Wolf01> because it blocks the other "lane" 14:00:01 <Islacrusez> is changing the game's graphics to justify your exploit even remotely good game design? 14:00:27 <V453000> game design wise I still do think it is a nice touch 14:01:14 <Wolf01> but in 0.14 will change and it merges both lanes instead of blocking one, what will you do? change the graphics again? 14:01:43 <V453000> yeah, except it won't? 14:01:57 <V453000> all entitiy graphics are made with their functionality in mind 14:02:09 <Islacrusez> <V453000> all entitiy graphics are made with their functionality in mind 14:02:15 <Islacrusez> quote of the fucking day right there 14:02:31 <Wolf01> this one obviously is a misuse because the graphics is well fitted for an "entrance" 14:02:49 <V453000> I won't say it's perfect. :) 14:03:01 <Wolf01> so it should be fixed with "block both lanes" 14:03:06 <Islacrusez> V453000, http://imgur.com/ZQy1fUp explain this shit right here if your previous comment is supposed to be true? 14:03:20 <Islacrusez> if the graphics were made with the intended use in mind, HOW IS YOUR USE INTENDED? 14:04:30 <Wolf01> to me it looks like those multiple tile span graphics for stations in ottd, I'm not able to build a station like the designer of the grf intended 14:05:01 <Wolf01> also it glitches like hell 14:05:11 <V453000> ok : ) 14:05:14 <Wolf01> or at least it did at that time I tried it 14:05:34 <V453000> but yes, I am not saying the visual solution of the UG belt trick is perfect 14:06:08 <V453000> what I meant to say was that in general, changing functionality can easily cause change of graphics, obviously 14:06:59 <Wolf01> yes, agreed, but we are talking about an abuse of functionality 14:07:29 <V453000> yes, and whether it is actually abuse is questionnable 14:07:29 <Wolf01> I think that only works because inserters should be able to pickup from the entrances/exits too 14:07:48 <Wolf01> which is nonsense too because it has a fucking roof 14:08:18 <V453000> yeah since picking stuff up from a closed chest makes more sense :P 14:08:26 <V453000> but yeah perhaps it should havea smaller roof 14:09:17 <Wolf01> if you can make the roof half tile long I could even agree with you 14:09:33 <V453000> that is what I was asking about twice now 14:09:41 <V453000> just change visual solution 14:09:51 <Wolf01> but it's still an entrance and not a lane block or a splitter 14:10:16 <Wolf01> it's like using an inserter as a biter beater 14:10:30 <Wolf01> why not? inserters move an might hurt you 14:10:50 <V453000> no, logistics and biters are completely different region 14:11:12 <Wolf01> also trains and a corpse when you are on their path 14:11:36 <V453000> it is just giving extra things to the belt puzzle. Not intutitive probably, probably also not visually perfect, but functionally fine. 14:11:53 <NGC3982> In the latest version, was there any changes on how the dedicated server works? 14:12:18 <NGC3982> For some reason, i notice that it doesn't use that much resources any more. 14:12:20 <NGC3982> It's really nice. 14:12:31 <Wolf01> even the laser bits which follow the biters... I was taught that light moves in straight line... or biters have a lot of mass? 14:13:12 <V453000> now you are just picking at random flaws of the game, we can do that for the whole day probably, and yes, it is one of the things which will likely end up on 0.14 roadmap 14:14:39 <Wolf01> but I'm fine with those, it's like on starcraft, you shot and you hit, what I'm not fine with is the abuse of a hidden feature 14:14:55 <Wolf01> see it like an undocumented API 14:15:09 <Wolf01> it's not documented so it may change at will 14:15:22 <V453000> isn't it in the player guide? :P 14:16:22 <Wolf01> even worse :D a misuse in the player guide 14:16:40 <Islacrusez> pretty sure it's not in the ingame tips; if it was intended, it'd be in there 14:16:54 <V453000> if it wasn 14:17:01 <Wolf01> don't give him suggestions XD 14:17:02 <V453000> if it wasnt intended, it wouldnt be coded that way 14:17:25 <V453000> and yes the tutorials and guides are highly work in progress 14:18:10 <V453000> I wouldn't be surprised if the belt trick is utilized somewhere in a pre-built factory in some mission as a thing to discover 14:20:05 <Wolf01> I still think it is working like that because of some weird mechanics they needed to tweak, but if you add a better and fitting graphics and with a proper tutorial and maybe with the ability to override the exit building (since you can't rotate the exit because automatically aligns), I might really change my mind 14:21:01 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d822ac3.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:10 <V453000> override exit building? 14:21:32 <Wolf01> try buiding 2 entrances on straight line with the same belt 14:21:47 <Wolf01> not 1 entrance and 1 exit, just 2 entrances 14:23:33 <Wolf01> mmh, no, not this case, it was another edge case I found with the entrances 14:23:46 <V453000> ah that you mean 14:23:49 <V453000> that they connect 14:23:49 <Wolf01> there is an impossible configuration to build 14:24:06 <V453000> basically you can't have 2 entrances going in opposite directions 14:24:57 <Wolf01> yes that 14:26:08 <V453000> that's probably the only functional downside of the dual-feature use I can see, yes 14:26:20 <V453000> but I would again just throw it to the bag "part of the puzzle" :P 14:26:52 <Wolf01> and I still think exits should be mandatory, having orphaned bits of entrances/exits for both pipes and belts don't add anything to the complexity, for belt it's only useful for the lane blocking 14:27:36 <Wolf01> and if I lose a pipe exit in the middle of a forest, I'll disassemble the forest to get rid of it 14:27:44 <Islacrusez> you could use that same argument to say that pre-signals aren't necessary... the limits of regular signals are "part of the puzzle" 14:27:54 *** tvel [~tvel@217.174.159.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:57 <Wolf01> I send the swarm of construction robots to do the trick 14:28:18 <Islacrusez> the worst one is ending up with an odd number of pipe to grounds afteer building a petrochemical complex 14:28:23 <V453000> no because presignals add a TON of new functions, adding a new lane blocker which does the same (plus ability to save 1 tile), does not add any new functionality at all 14:28:39 <Islacrusez> V453000, tough shit; it's "part of the puzzle" 14:28:43 <V453000> Wolf01: you can build them like power poles now when you drag them 14:28:54 <Islacrusez> see how bad of an argument that is? 14:29:07 <V453000> no Islacrusez, presignals add things which are simply absolutely impossible with block signals 14:29:20 <Islacrusez> V453000, doesn't matter; part of the puzzle 14:29:34 <Wolf01> pre-signals were added to get rid of a bad problem 14:29:35 <V453000> that makes no sense 14:29:41 <Wolf01> (junction blocking) 14:30:29 <Islacrusez> V453000, doesn't need to 14:30:36 <Islacrusez> it's an awful handwave, don't use it 14:30:43 <Wolf01> here we are arguing about using the wrong entity to avoid adding a dedicated entity to do the same work 14:31:05 <Islacrusez> at this point I'm just attacking his argument, because his argument is bad and he should feel bad 14:31:35 <Wolf01> the same could be "why there are waypoints in ottd? just use stations with the right order" 14:31:43 <V453000> yeah I should feel bad 14:32:12 <V453000> all I can say is go fuck yourself at this point honestly. I love the game, I love working on it, and I am not saying everything is perfect. But I demand reasonable discussion. 14:32:25 <Islacrusez> you're welcome to discuss the merits of one vs the other; "part of the puzzle" is *not* one of them 14:32:43 <V453000> I am welcome? Do I get your permission to discuss something? Thank you good lord 14:33:08 <Islacrusez> you know exactly what I mean 14:33:12 <peter1138> Why should anyone feel bad? That's shitty. 14:34:00 <V453000> because someone hates your hidden/hacky/tricky feature peter1138 :) obviously 14:34:13 <V453000> every game developer would have deep depressions every day if that was to apply 14:34:18 <V453000> there is always someone who will dislike something 14:34:23 <peter1138> Speaking of which, I have that rainbow colours patch somewhere... 14:34:31 <V453000> =D 14:34:40 <Islacrusez> peter1138, because bad logic is bad 14:34:42 <peter1138> V453000, look at what happened to Notch... sad :S 14:34:57 <V453000> I don't follow Notch too much but I guess he is kind of lost atm 14:35:08 <V453000> not knowing what to do, not being entertained either 14:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly "happened"? 14:35:57 <Samu> just finished reworking the way slots can be edited 14:36:12 <Samu> no more accidental removal of dead AI companies 14:36:34 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: one thing in factorio has basically 2 uses, one of the uses isn't very intuitive. 2 people demand this entity to be split into two so it doesn't add new functions, just splits it to be more intuitive. And because I dare to defend the method of two-in-one, I should feel bad because yes. 14:36:35 <Samu> unless the user really clicks Stop AI 14:36:51 <Samu> that will actually remove it, and it's not accidental 14:36:57 <Samu> it's what the user wants 14:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my uninformed intuition tells me to be on the "split it" side 14:38:22 <V453000> perhaps yes but whichever opinion you have, it doesn't make you a terrible person 14:38:49 <Wolf01> no V, you shouldn't feel bad, because I see your reasons, you should feel bad because you said "1. it totally breaks the "first sight clarity" of the game. If you look at inserter now, you can see what it does, where from and to." and then you tried to defend a misfeature which does exactly the opposite 14:39:27 <V453000> that is clear differences as well 14:39:33 <Wolf01> this is what I call "you are confused" 14:39:52 <peter1138> Feeling bad sucks. 14:40:02 <Wolf01> maybe with a better graphics it could have sense, but I'm not convinced 14:40:09 <V453000> if inserter can work in various ways, you need gui assistance to "understand what will it do". with the belt, once you learn how the thing works, it is consistently going to do that, without any extra gui exlpanation 14:40:40 <V453000> so if you want to tell me to feel bad for defending a (perhaps questionnable and debatable) argument, again, sexual intercourse with self suggestion? :P 14:40:43 <V453000> feeling bad is nope 14:40:58 <Wolf01> no, you just need the alt (info) mode even to know how an inserter works, there are the arrows for that too 14:41:11 <V453000> exactly, which is shit 14:41:23 <V453000> you could play dwarf fortress instead 14:41:32 <Wolf01> also with a splitter you have a visual representation of what it does 14:41:40 <Islacrusez> V453000, the reason I'm telling you to feel bad about your argument is because it is very closely related to "because I said so" 14:41:42 <Wolf01> an UB entrance is not a splitter 14:42:02 <peter1138> What is dus... http://factoryidle.com/ 14:42:25 <V453000> peter1138: the thing which about every programmer of factorio plays at the office you mean? :D 14:43:06 <V453000> Islacrusez: I gave clear argument to every of my points, or at least attempted to explain my throught process. Because I said so doesn't apply. 14:43:58 <peter1138> heh 14:44:00 <Wolf01> and I just explained your argument does not make sense, you have valid reasons but they go in different ways 14:44:37 <Islacrusez> "it's part of the puzzle" argument is literally "this thing adds a step to completing a task, I say this is how it should be" 14:44:40 <Wolf01> because if you state that something needs a clear way to tell what it is, then it should apply to everything, and not only at what you don't like 14:44:41 <V453000> it does make sense, it just doesn't prioritize the things you are trying to achieve 14:45:27 <V453000> Wolf01: one thing is intuitiveness at the first sight, and readability after learning the "symbols" 14:45:57 <V453000> side inserters are not visible in either, belt trick only at the first sight case 14:46:05 <Wolf01> UB entrance as splitter is conter intuitive at his top 14:46:16 <Wolf01> its* 14:46:28 <V453000> I never said it is intuitive 14:46:47 <V453000> I just don't view that as a problem 14:46:53 <Wolf01> I spent an entire afternoon to learn how to make that mixed belt splitter 14:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you literally said "intuitive" 3 lines above 14:47:36 <V453000> Wolf01: does that mean you had fun playing the game? 14:47:56 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 14:47:57 <Wolf01> no, I was frustrated, and I put it in blueprints to not think to it again 14:48:01 <V453000> XD 14:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "playing the game" and "having fun" are two completely separate things 14:48:13 <V453000> it's not like you HAVE to use mixed belts 14:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of games are played that are not fun (anymore) 14:48:33 <V453000> many people even created a religion where they hate mixed belts to all hell 14:48:42 <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, a good game is one where playing it and having fun are the same; like factorio 14:48:45 <Wolf01> it's like "you don't have to put a coal patch in the middle of a iron ore field" 14:48:59 <V453000> why would you play a game if you don't have fun doing it ._. did our culture get that far? 14:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there are psychological factors at play here 14:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: look up "skinner box" 14:49:33 <Islacrusez> V453000, most MMOs 14:49:47 <Islacrusez> also most facebook games 14:49:57 <Wolf01> so, do you know what to do now? take your 3d graphics software thing and let make it intuitive :) 14:50:49 <Samu> Reload AI functionality is now only part of AI Debug window 14:50:55 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: , Islacrusez , still feels like that's a horribly broken thing to do if you aren't having fun wasting your time? XD 14:51:16 <Wolf01> not broken, but weird mechanics I won't rely on too much 14:51:22 <V453000> Wolf01: it probably isn't so simple, nothing in factorio graphics is simple. But I can have a look at it someday. now, wagons :P 14:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's the problem, sometimes the brain does broken things 14:51:58 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:58 <V453000> well then why care about the game being broken if people play it anyway? :P point? :D 14:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's why there are so many terrible games out there :p 14:52:47 <V453000> XD 14:53:11 <Wolf01> that's why people fix games by themselves with grfs ;) 14:53:28 <Wolf01> or mods 14:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> where "terrible" does not mean "badly programmed", but "exploitive mechanics" 14:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's also how casinos work, btw. 14:54:14 <Wolf01> http://i.imgur.com/MSQl9hd.jpg <- even if they reach this point 14:54:23 <V453000> yeah Wolf01 , on which they spend hundreds of hours to the point where they don't enjoy playing the game anymore XD admittedly factorio mods are much easier to make so this problem isn't that bad 14:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> be flashy to get as many people in as possible, and keep them in there for as much money to squeeze out as possible 14:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there is (almost) no redeeming value for the people going in there 14:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> because the whole system is designed to keep them in there beyond the point where they have fun 14:55:47 <V453000> well there is always the last resort of selling it with boob advertisements :P 14:55:53 <V453000> $$$$$ 14:56:49 <Wolf01> oh god... I need to make a video of this 14:57:10 <Wolf01> inserters fighting for a crate 14:58:11 <V453000> ps, my 3d grahpics software just decided not to render shit XD 14:58:21 <V453000> just no, you get 1 frame and that's enough :D 14:58:33 <V453000> Blender. Issues you never thought could happen. 14:58:41 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:58:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:58:49 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/OgPzntl <- this is pure awesomeness 14:58:52 <Alberth> hihi 14:58:56 <Wolf01> o/ 14:59:12 <Wolf01> I think I'll let them there for the rest of the game 14:59:25 <Samu> my next goal is to allow reset to reset resetable ai parameters, instead of just disabling the reset button alltogether 14:59:26 <V453000> I thought one of them should be the first? 14:59:28 <Alberth> turtles? :) 14:59:30 <V453000> what are they doing Wolf01 ? 14:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i'm sure if you go to the blender people they tell you it's all intuitive and changing it "breaks the puzzle" 14:59:44 <Wolf01> moving the crate back and forth 14:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: and if you're not having fun, why use blender in the first place? 14:59:59 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: no, they would probably agree with me that it is an issue, and not do anything about it :P 15:00:13 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: because it is productive? your argumetns don't work very well here :P 15:00:46 <Wolf01> *cough* even a splitter is productive *cough* /me chokes 15:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, if you're not making a physical thing, it's not "productive" 15:01:15 <V453000> that's actually fairly offensive thing to say to a 3D artist Eddi|zuHause 15:01:23 <V453000> or a programmer 15:01:27 <V453000> or yeah 15:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but also banker, manager, ... 15:01:56 <Wolf01> mmmh, how do you record a video without fraps or gamecam? 15:01:59 <V453000> so, nobody is productive? 15:02:17 <Wolf01> PSR here we go 15:02:18 <V453000> idk I used bandicam at some point, I know someone used nvidia capture thing 15:02:41 <Samu> i use bandicam 15:02:52 <Samu> but openttd cant run in fullscreen mode 15:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, jobs separate into 3 categories: "productive", "creative" and "bullshit" 15:03:22 <Alberth> you chatting here is not productive, so chat software is bullshit :p 15:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> as a graphics designer, you're easily in the "creative" part 15:03:39 <V453000> I can see art being creative at the first stage when you design/sketch things, but the rest is pretty much just productive 15:03:57 <peter1138> openttd can run in fullscreen mode 15:03:57 <Alberth> non-artists see that different 15:04:04 <Wolf01> meh... recorded a double screen video... 15:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> this channel is also mildly in the "creative" part 15:04:29 <V453000> this channel is fully bullshit part atm :P 15:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hence "mildly" :p 15:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a weak argument that "manager" is in the "productive" category, if it enables more people to be "productive", but a lot of times it's leaning towards "bullshit" 15:05:48 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> investment banking is almost completely "bullshit" 15:06:38 <Wolf01> meh the windows games recording tool can't "see" factorio 15:06:40 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, I love how the human npc seems to be giving the pair a strange look 15:06:58 <V453000> regardless, 3D art is hard work where you just construct something. In a computer, virtually? Yes. 15:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not say that "creative" is not "hard work" 15:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> also "bullshit" can be "hard work" 15:08:07 <Wolf01> the screenhot works, why not the recording? 15:08:49 <Alberth> how physical is a thing if you need non-physical things to realize it? 15:09:11 <V453000> so, 3d printing_ 15:09:13 <V453000> ? 15:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 3d printing is "productive" 15:09:29 <peter1138> Does Factorio use a 3D engine? 15:09:31 <V453000> computers are physical, data is physical 15:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> normal printing is also "productive" 15:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> putting something on a screen is "creative" 15:10:00 <peter1138> In my experience those "game recording" tools hook into the 3D rendering stuff. 15:10:10 <Islacrusez> if data is physical, why is putting it on screen not productive? 15:10:13 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:b6d2:ac81:a64b:2673:997] has joined #openttd 15:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> data is not physical. 15:10:41 <Islacrusez> apparently it depends on who you ask 15:10:44 <Islacrusez> >.> 15:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> positioning and hooking up a screen is "productive" 15:10:45 <Islacrusez> <.< 15:10:46 <Wolf01> windows has that thing which popups every time I play (the game toolbar) but with factorio doesn't seem to work 15:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> showing images on a screen is "creative" 15:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, printing something so another person can scan it is "bullshit" 15:12:24 <V453000> so painting on canvas is productive while making renders not_ same with statue-model_ 15:12:27 <Alberth> always add a disclaimer to stuff you print "do not scan this" 15:12:30 <V453000> ? 15:12:38 <V453000> XD 15:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes. 15:13:02 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 15:13:24 <V453000> I dont get that eddi, the process is almost identical 15:13:31 <Islacrusez> hey here's a thought; if a lane splitter is simply a single tile with two belts in opposite directions and is treated exactly as such, it could be used to invert two mixed belts into two opposite mixed belts 15:13:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has joined #openttd 15:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's not the point, the point is the end product. 15:13:44 <Islacrusez> how huge would your mechanism be to match that, V453000? 15:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: coming up with what to draw on the canvas may be "creative", but the act of physically swinging the hand to put colour on is "productive" 15:14:23 <V453000> Islacrusez: how is that related? 15:14:44 <V453000> same as in computer eddi, precisely 15:15:01 <Islacrusez> I can make it related if you really want, but I'm simply asking a question 15:15:05 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 15:15:21 <Islacrusez> wee can launch back into the argument if you *really* want, but I have no intention to do so 15:15:24 <V453000> big is answer, as you are aware 15:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: part of the point is that "productive" tasks require raw materials, where "creative" tasks do not 15:16:19 <V453000> weird logic 15:16:22 <Samu> who worked on the last trunk change? frosh? 15:16:49 <Islacrusez> I'm not sure throwing paint at a canvas and calling it art is "productive"... then again I'd hesitate to call it "creative"... 15:17:00 <Islacrusez> can we say BS is a subset of both of those? 15:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the other part of the point is that the result of "creative" tasks can easily be multiplied (because more copies of it don't require more material), where "productive" cannot 15:18:06 <Samu> CluelessPlus is crashing with "excessive CPU usage in valuator function" with the recent trunk fix :( 15:18:34 <Samu> it builds the first route, then tried to build an HQ, and crashes with this error 15:18:59 <Samu> cluelessplus was one of the most stable AI I've ever tested 15:19:03 <Samu> and now this :( 15:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Islacrusez: a job is "bullshit" if the only result is that it creates more work for other people without making those people either more "creative" or more "productive" 15:21:15 <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, what about "productive" tasks that serve only to appease one of the pure BS employees? 15:21:28 <Islacrusez> personally I'd extend the BS class to them 15:21:45 *** pereba_ [AdiIRC@187.59.102.43] has joined #openttd 15:21:51 <Samu> I see this chat is quite busy now 15:22:29 <Alberth> Samu: what do you expect us to do or say? 15:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "bullshit" has a viral property 15:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if a "productive" or "creative" task is infected by a "bullshit" task, it becomes "bullshit" as well 15:23:26 <Alberth> we all die with as much money as we are born, thus all money-related things are BS ? 15:23:45 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, I'm fine with lane separators being 2 tiles like the core splitters, I don't really need to spare one tile, I just don't rely on the underground belt contraption as separator, as it even inverts the output 15:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not necessary "all", because you CAN build up an inheritance for your offspring. 15:24:21 <Samu> I don't know really, but... the fix may raise the number of AIs crashing 15:24:46 <Samu> if something as simple as building an HQ triggers it to stop :( 15:24:57 <V453000> Islacrusez: 5x4 for a lane swapper it seems 15:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but yes, money has a large "bullshit" element to it 15:25:40 <Samu> map wasn't even large, it was a 64x64 map 15:25:57 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, logically there's no logical reason for a lane separator to be more than one tile; its entire functionality is the equivalent of two belts facing opposite directions, except instead of two incoming belts you have to lanes of one belt 15:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause> after all, money was invented to pay for armies (which are "bullshit") 15:26:44 * andythenorth draws trucks 15:26:47 <Islacrusez> V453000, not nearly as large as I imagined, but still a significant area for something that, logically at least, could occur on a single tile 15:26:58 <V453000> anythin can occur 15:26:58 <Alberth> hi hi andy 15:27:12 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, I'm talking of the bottom right one http://i.imgur.com/bQ4oiRv.jpg 15:27:29 <Wolf01> how do you do that with 1 belt? 15:27:45 <V453000> now I fit it into 3x3, 8 tiles 15:28:42 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/belt-swapper.png 15:28:44 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, [<>] (single tile); imagine a belt tile, but half the belt goes one way and half the belt goes the opposite direction, heading outward 15:28:51 <V453000> wait no that doesn't swap it XD 15:28:52 <V453000> nvm 15:28:59 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:b6d2:ac81:a64b:2673:997] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:02 <V453000> how to overengineer XD 15:29:04 *** pereba_ is now known as pereba 15:29:18 <Wolf01> V, please... the train cars XD 15:29:32 <V453000> no :) patience 15:29:49 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, using the rules of how belts interact, the result is a lane splitter with one incoming belt, or a lane swapper with two belts from opposite direction 15:30:07 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, more importantly, it follows all known rules of belts 15:30:11 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, ok, I figured it out now 15:31:11 <andythenorth> âdrawsâ :P 15:31:11 * andythenorth copies and pastes trucks :P 15:31:11 <andythenorth> V453000: whatâs your favourite photoshop tool? :P 15:31:13 <V453000> fixed https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/belt-swapper.png 15:31:39 <V453000> andythenorth: depends :) for general work, place linked because other programs don't seem to have it 15:31:56 <V453000> what I use most, brush? :D 15:32:07 <Islacrusez> you may have misunderstood what I was asking; try four items on two belts from opposite direction; swap the pairs onto two outgoing belts 15:32:35 <V453000> part of the puzzle Islacrusez :) 15:32:43 <Islacrusez> I have no idea why this might be done, presumably for some sort of 2nd or 3rd stage manufacturing step fed from a primary bus 15:32:48 <V453000> so that MOAR isn't just adding shit, but adding problems 15:32:51 <Wolf01> V, just invert the 2 tunnels 15:33:31 <V453000> Wolf01: there are definitely many approaches to it 15:33:38 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/bKiBvBx 15:33:42 <Islacrusez> V453000, I'm not disputing that at this point; I just want to know how big the mechanism would be to actually do it with your method 15:33:55 <V453000> nice 15:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: so the tunnel entrances are just there to stop half of the belt? 15:34:05 <V453000> yeah Eddi|zuHause 15:34:06 <Wolf01> yes eddi 15:34:16 <V453000> ridiculous, isn't it :P 15:34:21 <Wolf01> yes 15:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that is terrible... 15:34:59 <Wolf01> but it works... 15:35:25 <Wolf01> and it isn't even so hard to understand 15:35:28 * andythenorth quick mask 15:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't you just have a thing that splits the two lanes of a belt into two individual belts? 15:35:48 <V453000> andythenorth: :) 15:35:49 <Wolf01> you just need to figure out that a contraption like that is a lane inverter 15:35:58 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: extra entity, same result 15:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> see, that is "bullshit". 15:36:20 <V453000> XD gg 15:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you just throw more things in the way to something that should be simple. 15:36:44 <V453000> yeah, should is very debatable 15:37:14 <Islacrusez> as we very much debated earlier 15:38:00 <Wolf01> eddi, could you tell me what is this http://imgur.com/oVDReNu at first glance? 15:38:05 <Islacrusez> now we're just comparing the actual method to accomplish certain tasks with my proposed approach (single-tile) vs the current system (creative use of tunnel entrances and exits) 15:38:59 <V453000> Wolf01: obviously nobody familiar with the game would, because it isn't intuitive, as we agreed earlier :) 15:39:02 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, interestingly that actually exploits two separate mechanics in a veery creative way; even the guys who make the game had to take a while to figure out how that damn thing works xD 15:39:23 <Wolf01> and I had to copy it too 15:39:42 <Wolf01> but now I think I could expand that shit to more items 15:39:55 <Islacrusez> V453000, I think the point of that was not that it's not intuitive to someone not familiar with the game; it's not even intuitive to the people who made the game; basically anyone not familiar with that particular mechanism will have a hard time reading it 15:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: "at first glance" is a non-issue 15:40:38 <V453000> which is fine that you need to learn the "symbolism of th game" first 15:40:56 <V453000> and yes, the splitter trick has been discussed, I am not sure if it is fixed in 0.13 actually 15:41:27 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has joined #openttd 15:41:30 <V453000> but intention is to fix it eventually 15:42:47 <andythenorth> well itâs nice that factorio keeps this community together and active :) 15:43:02 <johannes_> Hello, can please someone (of the programmers) please quickly answer question (2) from http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=72741&p=1169799#p1169799 ? I need to know it to continue... 15:43:26 <V453000> andythenorth: XD 15:44:58 <V453000> soooo what is the opinion on the new stack inserteR? 15:45:32 <Islacrusez> V453000, not a huge fan, but will have to try it to see 15:45:34 <andythenorth> oops, canât encode RGB pngs :P 15:45:52 <Islacrusez> it'll make my current train unloaders obsolete I think 15:46:18 <Wolf01> V, do you know we can use your arguments against you? but it's ok, it would help in some cases 15:46:24 <V453000> it certainly changes some things, but inside of factories it actually does make an interesting mechanic 15:46:33 <V453000> yes Wolf01 ? 15:47:11 <Islacrusez> V453000, I haven't really gone through and checked how it'd affect my builds 15:48:03 <Islacrusez> I only suspect my train unloader would probably no longer need 5 fast inserters a side to saturate a belt if stack inserters are used 15:48:22 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:45 <andythenorth> can we have inserters in openttd? o_O 15:49:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 15:49:23 <Alberth> soon :p 15:50:27 <Flygon> .... 15:50:27 <Alberth> you could perhaps make animated station tiles? 15:50:29 <Wolf01> the most waited feaure is the blueprint book 15:50:35 <Flygon> <Islacrusez> I only suspect my train unloader would probably no longer need 5 fast inserters a side to saturate a belt if stack inserters are used 15:50:43 <Flygon> I'm not sure if we're talking about OpenTTD or Factorio 15:50:46 <Flygon> I only just walked in 15:50:54 <Wolf01> and if that wouldn't be in 0.13 I won't update until 0.14 15:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: this channel is almost never about openttd :p 15:53:56 <Flygon> True 15:53:57 <Flygon> Hahaha 15:53:58 <Flygon> Anyway 15:54:00 <Flygon> Hyvaa yota :3 15:54:05 <andythenorth> openttd is no longer about the game :P 15:54:13 <Islacrusez> Flygon, Factorio appears to have stolen the spotlight in this channel; which is understandable, both games are very much the art of logistics 15:54:23 <Islacrusez> someone should mod TTD into Factorio 15:55:04 <Alberth> factorio already has trains, afaik 15:56:04 <Islacrusez> Alberth, I mean the type of play; imagine starting a game with pre-built factories and mines spawning on the map, and you have to connect them with only belts, trains, and pipes, unable to build new factories 15:56:39 <Islacrusez> [simplified, of course] 15:56:47 <Wolf01> Islacrusez, you did browse the mod section, you didn't? 15:57:08 <Wolf01> there is a mod where you play INSIDE a factorio train 15:57:16 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, hah xD 15:58:01 <Samu> i want to reset settings that aren't "anchored" as you put it 15:58:08 <Samu> hmm... 15:58:48 <Samu> line 136 script_config.cpp 15:58:51 <V453000> fuck it, wagon is rendering, I go play 0.13 :P 15:58:52 <V453000> hype? 15:59:04 <Wolf01> hype 15:59:26 <Samu> or rather... uhm... right, brb 16:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no hype 16:00:40 <Samu> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_gui.cpp;h=a0720e2ea50483529ac0aa4e56c5dfcdbecd076e;hb=HEAD#l524 16:00:46 <Samu> line 524 ai_gui.cpp 16:01:00 <Samu> it resets settings regardless if they're anchored 16:01:16 <Samu> I want to prevent anchored settings to be reset, what to do 16:03:07 <Islacrusez> Wolf01, actually not looked at the mods much; want to finish my seecond vanilla playthrough first 16:03:31 <Wolf01> I didn't even finish the tutorial 16:03:45 <V453000> nub! 16:03:59 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 16:04:36 <Wolf01> got to the part where you have to rebuild the mining outpost and fix the defences, and started to waste time aggroing the biters 16:05:15 <Wolf01> now I'm playing survival and I'm drilling my way throught the nests 16:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i played through the demo a long time ago 16:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't scratch my itches 16:06:44 <supermop> games don't really scratch any itch for me 16:06:50 <Wolf01> I purchased it as soon as I started the demo 16:06:57 <supermop> except maybe go 16:07:21 <Islacrusez> my playthrough was tutorial, campaign, one playthrough on default to learn the game, and then I modified map generation to fit how I wanted to play it and start a second playthrough for pure enjoyment 16:10:39 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:10 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:27:15 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-183-194.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:27 <Wolf01> /me is going to watch warcraft (the movie) 16:30:31 <Wolf01> so... 16:30:34 <Wolf01> 'night :D 16:30:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 16:34:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6A0E7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:22 <supermop> http://www.vistametals.com/rolling_slab_ingot.php 16:37:42 <supermop> andythenorth: ^ 16:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is a "rolling slab ingot"? 16:39:07 <andythenorth> is that what you roll from? 16:39:21 * andythenorth assumes itâs the feedstock to a rolling mill 16:39:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B3FE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> also, how do you break out of a blockade? if i send my ships into battle and then retreat, they just turn back into the port they came from 16:41:57 <Islacrusez> I imagine you need to beat the shit out of the guys doing the blockading 16:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> not enough ships for that... 16:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have the same number of ships, but they have galleys and i have transports and light ships. so i make virtually no damage 16:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and the transports tank only so much... 16:43:23 <Islacrusez> what're you playing? 16:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> does that matter? :p 16:43:48 <Samu> uhm, i'm being mislead by void ScriptConfig::AnchorUnchangeableSettings() 16:44:12 <Samu> what is this anchoring after all? 16:44:45 <Samu> i saw it anchoring a changeable setting 16:45:10 <Samu> or is my interpretation different 16:45:48 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:05 <Samu> it's doing a "AnchorUnchangeableSettings-PlusSettingsDifferentThanDefault" 16:47:21 <Samu> it puts them both in the same "bag" 16:49:29 <Samu> when ResetSettings is called 16:49:44 <Samu> both unchangeable settings and settings different than default get reset 16:50:14 <Samu> unchangeable settings are supposed to never reset 16:50:33 <Samu> i need to examine this better 16:51:59 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has joined #openttd 16:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> HA. i actually managed to beat the shit out of them, with help from my allies :) 16:55:21 <andythenorth> hmm 16:55:58 <andythenorth> the only way to make sprites good 16:56:04 <andythenorth> is to care about them more than anyone will actually notice 16:56:05 <andythenorth> :P 16:56:37 <Alberth> or just put all the pixels exactly right :p 16:59:22 <Samu> * As long as the default of a setting has not been changed, the value of * the setting is not stored. This to allow changing the difficulty setting * without having to reset the script's config. However, when a setting may * not be changed in game, we must "anchor" this value to what the setting * would be at the time of starting. Otherwise changing the difficulty * setting would change the setting's value (which isn't allowed). 17:01:47 <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, there's a lot of difference between what you can do in say Stellaris to say Grepolis, so yes, it matters :P 17:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm playing Europa Universalis IV 17:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but the AI is terribly uncoordinated with ships 17:02:32 <Islacrusez> ah, good luck with that; EU3 still kicks my ass until I can wear it like a hat 17:02:44 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> like, sweden has half their ships sitting around somewhere instead of blockading denmark... 17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and my measly saxon fleet is totally not up to fighting denmark on their own 17:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> also, wtf is sweden doing anyway? its army is just moving back and forth between two provinces... 17:28:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:28:53 <andythenorth> quak 17:32:36 <Samu> anchor unchangeable settings is fine after all, if I understood 17:32:45 <Samu> resetsettings is then... wrong 17:33:08 <Samu> resetsettings can't just reset all that is anchored 17:33:15 <Samu> must do it in some other way 17:33:54 <frosch123> hoi 17:34:25 <Alberth> hola 17:34:28 <Samu> frosch123: are you responsible for the last trunk change? 17:34:44 <Samu> I'm getting some AIs stopping quite early 17:35:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18015.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:38:33 <Samu> i tried cluelessplus on a 64x64 map, and it couldn't build an HQ, too much CPU blabla 17:39:23 <Samu> i don't want to imagine on a 4096 map 17:40:04 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:08 <Samu> i've tried NoCAB on the same 64x64, this one is much more heavy and it didn't trigger that CPU thing however 17:41:24 <Samu> something's quite not right 17:43:10 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 17:48:35 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:01 *** juzza1_ [~juzza1@dyn2-212-50-133-243.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:21 <supermop> andythenorth: i just thought they looked comically large blocks of aluminum 17:54:21 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has joined #openttd 17:55:39 *** juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:15 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@65.207.114.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:01:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@65.207.114.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:04:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 18:05:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:10 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 18:16:36 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 18:17:15 <Samu> this resetsettings deal is quite complex for me after all, time to give up 18:20:10 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:13 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:26:56 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:28:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:00 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:33:38 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27596 /branches/1.6 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2016-06-01 20:35:24 +0200 ) 18:35:33 <DorpsGek> [1.6] -Update: Documentation 18:41:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27597 /tags/1.6.1-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2016-06-01 20:41:01 +0200 ) 18:41:08 <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.6.1-RC1 18:52:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has joined #openttd 18:56:10 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:35 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:11 <Samu> I wish I had a handy GS with 0 parameters 19:12:02 <Samu> double clicking a GS script: if (Game::GetInstance() != NULL && GetConfig(this->selected_slot)->GetConfigList()->size() != 0) ShowAISettingsWindow((CompanyID)this->selected_slot); 19:12:31 <Samu> to make sure if this would work 19:18:31 <Samu> there are no AIs with 0 parameters, but just in case... I'll put this test in it anyway 19:19:08 <Samu> does someone know of a GS script with 0 parameters? I need one for testing 19:19:52 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 19:20:13 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has joined #openttd 19:20:14 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:05 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@177.203.86.41] has joined #openttd 19:26:31 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has joined #openttd 19:27:14 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 19:27:36 <andythenorth> truck trailers are just train wagons with wheels moved around 19:27:38 <johannes_> Any programmer here who can answer question (2) of http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=72741&p=1169799#p1169799 ? I.e. can I use C++11 for a part of OpenTTD that's not needed in the core? 19:28:33 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200.102.123.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:34 <frosch123> why not? 19:31:56 <frosch123> ottd also uses objective c and other weird languages 19:32:28 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:38 <frosch123> if ottd wouldn't have to compile on an arcane osx cross compiler, it would likely use c++11 als in the core 19:37:10 <supermop> andythenorth: if they are just moving the train wheels around, i hope they are paying extra road tax at least 19:41:38 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:41:52 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:40 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has joined #openttd 19:54:56 <johannes_> frosch123: thanks, I'll try C++11 then 20:02:34 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@255.27.199.146.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 20:07:42 <Samu> new version of my stuff :o 20:07:52 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1169760#p1169760 20:08:16 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@65.207.114.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:16 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 20:08:29 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:12:23 *** johannes_ [~johannes@80.120.78.66] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:01 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 20:15:55 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:37 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 20:18:46 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:02 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-170-40.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:14 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x5ce33e0e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 20:32:28 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:08 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:36:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@217.33.116.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:30 *** pereba [AdiIRC@187.59.102.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:33 *** pereba [~adiirc@187.113.182.21] has joined #openttd 21:00:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18015.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:08 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:11:34 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@177.203.86.41] has joined #openttd 21:14:53 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@177.203.86.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:09 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@177.203.86.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:18 *** Clockworker [Clockworke@177.203.86.41] has joined #openttd 21:16:15 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:39 <Samu> glx: how do I create a standalone bundle of OpenTTD? 21:18:45 <Samu> so i can zip it 21:19:06 <Samu> on visual studio 21:19:36 <glx> can't be done from VS 21:19:49 <Samu> oh, :\ 21:20:08 <glx> we use "make bundle" 21:20:35 <Samu> t.t 21:20:56 <Samu> I keep hearing make bundle all the time 21:21:04 <Samu> sometimes i hear make install 21:23:47 <Samu> did you ever try any of my patches? just wondering if it is causing issues 21:23:59 <Samu> I don't think anyone ever tried 21:24:08 <Samu> I don't get that much feedback 21:30:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:32:07 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x5ce33e0e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:39:00 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:03:42 <Samu> there is a strange bug with scenario editor start date 22:05:18 <Samu> gonna try to reproduce it 22:05:41 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo] 22:06:40 <Samu> okay, I got the reproduceable steps 22:07:08 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:32 <Samu> so I launch openttd, then scenario editor, it has a start date of 1950 22:08:14 <Samu> if i change the date to ... say 1960, then exit the editor, then when i click new game, the start date for the new game is still 1950 22:08:45 <Samu> but 22:09:01 <Samu> if I load a scenario 22:09:14 <Samu> that scenario has a date of 1960 22:09:27 <Samu> then i exit scenario editor, when i click new game, the date is now 1960 :( 22:10:09 <Samu> seems to be a bug about loading scenarios 22:10:19 <Samu> gonna report 22:13:29 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:29 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6A0E7.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:25 <Samu> bug reported: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6474 22:49:56 <Samu> heh, harder to say it in words than actually performing it 23:01:11 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 23:18:44 <Samu> strange, I'm getting a ton of 'received invalid or unexpected packet' from clients joining my servers 23:19:11 <Samu> I wonder if it's because of hibernate feature 23:20:55 <Samu> I hibernate windows 10 in-between, maybe it's the cause 23:21:18 *** JetFox [~oftc-webi@c-66-41-90-124.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:19 <Samu> when the system wakes up, users that join appear to get that error 23:21:50 <Samu> I can't confirm this though 23:22:19 <JetFox> ? 23:24:14 <Samu> i start a server, then I have to go to bed or so, and I don't want to shut down the server, so I hibernate windows 10. When I wake up, I can return windows to what it was before I went to bed. 23:25:05 <Samu> I do this so that I can preserve clients company passwords, but I suspect this doesn't always work 23:25:22 <JetFox> Hibernation isnt exactly nice for a server. 23:25:45 <JetFox> Imagine the time clock you hibernated around 10PM, the server stops to go into hibernation. You wake it up at 7AM.. it has no idea what to do during that time. 23:26:02 <JetFox> You basically told it to skip time where it was supposed to process something 23:27:40 <Samu> I think it's network related though 23:28:01 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 23:28:16 <Samu> I don't always get the same IP address between hibernations 23:28:47 <Samu> but there's no way I can confirm 23:29:46 <Samu> and Windows firewall is so confusing for me to configure 23:30:08 <JetFox> Why not just get a ovp vps and put it on there? 23:30:17 <JetFox> it wont go into hibernate 23:35:30 <Samu> but it's strange that the master server recognizes my server coming online from hibernation 23:35:52 <Samu> how else would players be able to even join 23:36:25 <Samu> :( I dunno what it is, but appears only after hibernation sessions 23:37:01 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:40:59 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:41:56 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:03 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:03 *** Snail_ is now known as Snail 23:45:37 <FLHerne> Samu: When you launch a public server, it sends a packet to the master 23:45:59 <FLHerne> To tell it it's there, and the name/settings/etc 23:50:49 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 23:54:53 <Samu> I really have no way to test this by myself alone 23:55:04 <Samu> I need a volunteer 23:55:06 <Samu> :p 23:56:01 <Samu> my spectating instances don't error out even when coming from hibernation 23:56:19 <Samu> but I didn't try rejoining 23:56:29 <ST2> try spectating from other machine 23:57:14 <Samu> that other machine is on the same home network 23:57:26 <Samu> but yeah, i got to test 23:57:34 <Samu> if I get permission from my parents 23:57:42 <ST2> and as JetFox said, there are very cheap vps's for testings ^^ 23:57:42 <Samu> it's their rig 23:59:06 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]