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00:14:10 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 00:29:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 00:33:10 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:34:00 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 00:34:19 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 01:09:31 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 01:10:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 01:20:19 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:22:45 *** keoz has quit IRC 01:40:52 *** happpy has joined #openttd 01:45:46 *** happpy has left #openttd 01:53:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 01:57:19 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** efess has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Taylor- has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** greeter has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** innocenat has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** davidstrauss has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** DDR has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Smedles has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Warrigal has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Extrems has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Speedy has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Ttech has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** ccfreak2k has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Flygon has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** techmagus has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** behalebabo has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** CompuDesktop has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** bwn has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** umgeher has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** txtsd has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** fiatjaf has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** ST2 has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Sirenia has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** Sylf has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 01:57:19 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 01:57:31 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** behalebabo has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** CompuDesktop has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** bwn has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** umgeher has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** txtsd has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** Sirenia has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** fiatjaf has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** ST2 has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** Sylf has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 01:57:31 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 02:00:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:01:51 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 02:01:51 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 02:01:51 *** efess has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** _dp_ has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Taylor- has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** greeter has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** innocenat has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** davidstrauss has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** DDR has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Speedy has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 02:03:41 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd 02:05:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v orudge 02:05:34 *** Long_yanG has quit IRC 02:05:38 *** LongyanG has joined #openttd 02:39:28 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 02:53:58 *** Jinassi has joined #openttd 03:04:32 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 03:19:39 *** glx has quit IRC 03:45:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 04:13:21 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 04:33:59 *** Taylor- has quit IRC 05:07:49 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 05:08:10 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 05:26:37 <Flygon> Is there a chart that shows pax. loading speeds for non-Metro EMUs? 05:27:01 <Flygon> I'm interested on if the Red Rattlers do actually unload/reload as fast as Metro EMUs, given they're almost entirely doors 05:27:41 <Flygon> http://www.westonlangford.com/media/photos/112813.jpg Each handle has a door attached @_@ 05:36:39 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 05:37:57 <sim-al2> Pretty narrow doors though 05:39:31 <Flygon_> Yeah, but half the EMU is still doors :U 05:39:40 <Flygon_> Sliding Door sets had a similiar quirk 05:39:56 <Flygon_> (They're both rebuilds of carriage-only stock, only door types differentiated them) 05:40:17 <Flygon_> (Hence, everyone just called them both Red Rattlers. Electronically and mechanically the same thing) 05:40:32 <sim-al2> Don't forget that the guard or station staff might have to close doors left open 05:40:40 <Flygon_> http://www.pjv101.net/cd/images/c225m.jpg Sliding ver. 05:40:49 <Flygon_> Trust me, they didn't give a crap :D 05:40:51 <Flygon_> It was very 05:41:02 <Flygon_> VERY common for Swing Door sets to run around with their doors left open 05:41:25 <sim-al2> Wouldn't the doors hit if two trains with doors open passed each other? 05:41:32 <Flygon_> ...this did, incidentally, result in door removals caused by the doors hidding a tunnel wall 05:41:38 <Flygon_> Nah, the loading gauge wasn't that tight 05:41:44 <sim-al2> I don't know how generous the metropolitan loading gauge is 05:41:57 <Flygon_> Keep in mind, when they converted a fair few of the Swing Door sets, some were 40 years old 05:42:01 <sim-al2> lol losing doors is still kinda bad 05:42:11 <sim-al2> Might make a big mess 05:42:15 <Flygon_> They had 40 years to think about if they really REALLY wanted to convert them all to sliding doors :D 05:42:29 <Flygon_> Well, it certainly made the EMUs/Steam Hauled units look like they had gaps in the teeth 05:42:34 <Flygon_> OH&S simply didn't exist 05:42:57 <Flygon_> But, yeah 05:43:18 <Flygon_> Keep in mind, we were like, the Southern Hemisphere's busiest railway from the 1860s through to... 1960sish (?) 05:43:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 05:43:42 <Flygon_> VR clearly saw the benefit in having more doors than a rich person's house 05:43:44 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 05:43:49 <sim-al2> lol 05:44:21 <Flygon> Though, the EMUs they got in the 1950s had only three (quite wide) doors, so presumably some revised math came in around then 05:44:24 <sim-al2> Seems to be quite similar to UK practice, where suburban EMUs had a similar deisgn going 05:44:28 <Flygon> Keep in mind, more doors = Less pax capacity 05:44:36 <Flygon> Yeah, well, we were a British colony :P 05:45:06 <Flygon> Our technological evolution was basically "Clone British stock, then see what cool shit the Germans and Americans are doing and clone that too" 05:45:46 <sim-al2> I suppose it's a viable design for high level platforms, probably explains why the UK stuck with it long after the Europeans moved to more familar designs 05:46:52 <sim-al2> Hell I think BR still had some compartment-type EMUs running in the mid 80's 05:47:01 <Flygon> Yeah. We went with high-level platforms since the 1850s 05:47:08 <Flygon> Or - As soon as we laid the first track, really. 05:47:45 <Flygon> But, yeah 05:48:25 <Flygon> http://www.brownfam.com.au/ROLL48/ROLL48_files/image005.jpg Eventually, we evolved into this sort of design (iirc, a clone of a British or Canadian design) 05:49:18 <Flygon> "Near South Yarra. It was arranged for the special to parallel the Harris suburban train as far as Caulfield so that fans could photograph and film the special on the way. I stayed on the special and photographed the Harris. Considering that there are preserved Swing-door trains and no preserved Harris trains, it was fortunate." 05:51:17 <Flygon> But, yeah. 3 (wide) doors on Harrises, but better pax capacity. It was the design Melbourne used ever since (Including on X'traps... I still wish 2CC set had a toggle for X'traps to be both Chilean and Australian :B), except for the Siemens. 05:51:39 <Flygon> But the Siemens was enough of a shitstorm for them to be blacklisted from Government-related Railway projects >_> 05:52:11 <Flygon> But, yeah, sim-al2 - http://www.brownfam.com.au/ROLL48/ROLL48_files/image016.jpg 05:52:28 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 05:52:29 <Flygon> There was enough space between the tracks that the doors, swinging out, could never really hit another train 05:52:40 <user_8475> allah is doing 05:52:44 <sim-al2> Oh I see 05:52:47 <user_8475> sun is not doing allah is doing 05:52:54 <user_8475> moon is not doing allah is doing 05:52:56 <sim-al2> ? 05:53:00 <Flygon> Oh, for fucks sake. Not another bot. 05:53:02 <user_8475> stars are not doing allah is doing 05:53:10 <user_8475> planets are not doing allah is doing 05:53:12 <Flygon> Paging planetmaker Rubidium Terkhen orudge 05:53:13 <sim-al2> Does this happen a lot? 05:53:18 <user_8475> galaxies are not doing allah is doing 05:53:27 <user_8475> oceans are not doing allah is doing 05:53:30 <Flygon> And peter1138, derp 05:53:34 <user_8475> mountains are not doing allah is doing 05:53:35 <Flygon> Any OPs, anyway :U 05:53:41 <user_8475> trees are not doing allah is doing 05:53:49 <user_8475> mom is not doing allah is doing 05:53:55 <user_8475> dad is not doing allah is doing 05:53:55 <Flygon> sim-al2: Enough so that it's become kinda blase 05:54:02 <user_8475> boss is not doing allah is doing 05:54:09 <user_8475> job is not doing allah is doing 05:54:13 <sim-al2> Hmm that picture makes the swing-door trains look pretty narrow actually 05:54:15 <user_8475> dollar is not doing allah is doing 05:54:21 <user_8475> degree is not doing allah is doing 05:54:25 <sim-al2> Also my boss is totally doing 05:54:31 <user_8475> medicine is not doing allah is doing 05:54:38 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah. VR were quite conservative when they tried. 05:54:40 <user_8475> customers are not doing allah is doing 05:54:53 <user_8475> you can not get a job without the permission of allah 05:55:14 <Flygon> This same sort of thing results in things like "Heavy Harry" managing to look gigantically imposing, while being not too much bigger than the biggest of British locomotives. 05:55:17 <user_8475> you can not get married without the permission of allah 05:55:33 <sim-al2> Ok mr bot is getting annoying now 05:55:40 <user_8475> nobody can get angry at you without the permission of allah 05:55:44 <Flygon> (Harry's tiny compared to some American locos. But 4.5k horsepower still isn't much to scoff at. They packed a lot of shit into a relatively tight loading gauge) 05:56:03 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 05:56:11 <Flygon> (Was also VR's first loco to use three cylinders... VR really really wanted to keep maintainence costs down on any loco) 05:56:17 <Flygon> Well, that was anti-climactic 05:56:21 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 05:56:24 <Flygon> Oh. 05:56:26 <user_8475> light is not doing allah is doing 05:56:29 <sim-al2> Oh god it's back 05:56:32 <user_8475> fan is not doing allah is doing 05:56:41 <user_8475> businessess are not doing allah is doing 05:56:48 <user_8475> america is not doing allah is doing 05:56:52 <Flygon> I mean, I'd spam a lot of weird furry porn into it's inbox with /query, but that's probably against some sort of OFTC policy 05:56:59 <user_8475> fire can not burn without the permission of allah 05:57:05 <sim-al2> Also this is some really terrible philosphical interpretation 05:57:17 <Flygon> IS DorpsGek on? 05:57:27 <Flygon> I'm not sure anyone mods are actually on 05:57:38 <user_8475> knife can not cut without the permission of allah 05:57:46 <sim-al2> I have a suspicion that nobody actually checks the bot's PMs anyway 05:57:57 <Flygon> And I have no idea if we're allowed to drag network opers into this, given this's ambiguously either a bot, or a teenager :U 05:58:12 <Flygon> Yeah, but the idea is to DDoS the bot into disconnecting with weird porn :U 05:58:23 <Flygon> Like, weird, not disgusting. 05:58:32 <sim-al2> Well I think that the bot can safely be considered spam 05:58:46 <Flygon> True, but it's still channel spam. 05:58:58 <Flygon> Urgh, I don't know enough about OFTC's internal beaurocracy. 05:59:18 <user_8475> rulers are not doing allah is doing 05:59:22 <Flygon> Like, this other network I'm on, the rules are EXPLICITLY clear that opers don't interfere with individual channel's affairs 05:59:25 <user_8475> governments are not doing allah is doing 05:59:43 <Flygon> But there is provisions to handle spambots, or in this case, a guy that's clearly reading the chatroom text :U 06:00:22 <user_8475> sleep is not doing allah is doing 06:00:26 <Flygon> http://pics.victrainz.com.au/Rods/Harris_Electrics_and_Country_Cars_/bl652.jpg Huh, they look quite weird in green 06:00:28 <user_8475> hunger is not doing allah is doing 06:00:32 <Flygon> (They're traditonally Blue-Yellow) 06:00:39 <sim-al2> Speaking of sleep I need to do that soon 06:00:59 <sim-al2> tbh I think the green and gold looks nice 06:01:04 <Flygon> Oh jeeze, I just nearly crashed my client using /list 06:01:09 <Flygon> I forgot how big OFTC is 06:01:20 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah, but it's still an odd colour if you're use to Royal Blue :D 06:01:32 <user_8475> food does not take away the hunger allah takes takes away the hunger 06:01:42 <Flygon> http://tdu.to/a35927/Harris 788M - Flinders St - 25-Feb-1987.jpg In colour 06:01:50 <Flygon> You'll need to copypasta that URL 06:02:22 <user_8475> water does not take away the thirst allah takes away the thirst 06:02:31 <user_8475> seeing is not doing allah is doing 06:02:38 <user_8475> hearing is not doing allah is doing 06:02:44 <user_8475> seasons are not doing allah is doing 06:02:50 <user_8475> weather is not doing allah is doing 06:02:58 <user_8475> humans are not doing allah is doing 06:02:59 <Flygon> Dafuk, he's on about Weather now? 06:03:06 <user_8475> animals are not doing allah is doing 06:03:14 <Flygon> Everyone knows the Weather's caused by British conversation. 06:03:47 <user_8475> the best amongst you is he who learns the quran and teaches it 06:04:11 <Flygon> sim-al2: http://www.trainbuilder.com/img/hcars2.jpg There's also the Yellow variants, but they're only used for Greasers (historically). Quite gnarly looking. 06:04:20 <Flygon> It looks like a log of cheese 06:04:25 <sim-al2> lol 06:04:41 <sim-al2> Looks like some kind of maintainence paint scheme 06:04:48 <Flygon> Exactly :D 06:04:55 <Flygon> It was used to grease the rails 06:05:06 <user_8475> one letter read from book of allah amounts to one good deed and allah multiplies one good deed ten times 06:05:18 <sim-al2> Kinda funny that almost every railway uses a similar shade of yellow for MoW stuff 06:05:43 <user_8475> hearts get rusted as does iron with water to remove rust from heart recitation of quran and rememberance of death 06:05:45 <sim-al2> Well I guess modern equipment isn't necessairly so, but still 06:05:52 <Flygon> Modern equipment here is... 06:05:54 <user_8475> heart is likened to a mirror 06:06:11 <user_8475> when a person commits one sin a black dot sustains the heart 06:06:43 <sim-al2> I've seen the small self-propelled stuff that use they during heavy maintainence in orange paint a lot 06:07:05 <sim-al2> But yeah a lot of track machinery is yellow 06:07:07 <Flygon> http://vicsig.net/suburban/photos/20120306-t377-iev102-t376-scs-ig.jpg This is our newest maintainence train. The locos and EMU unit are 60 years old. 06:07:08 <user_8475> to accept islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except allah and muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger 06:07:20 <Flygon> The EMU is a Harris unit, seriously. 06:07:27 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:07:33 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:07:34 <sim-al2> Inspection unit I assume? 06:07:35 <Flygon> It was converted to non-self propelled running 06:07:45 <Flygon> Then re-converted to electric running between locos 06:07:50 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah. 06:08:26 <Flygon> https://railgallery.wongm.com/albums/em100/E115_0811.jpg A unit that wasn't made from a box of scraps 06:08:33 <Flygon> Not that it doesn't look it :P 06:08:42 <sim-al2> Yeah I figured that with the dome on the roof and decidely non-standard pantographs, but you never know 06:08:53 <sim-al2> wow that's rather interesting 06:09:11 <Flygon> Well, Harris Pantos haven't been made in 60 years. Gotta give-em a break for improvising. :P 06:09:16 <user_8475> read book http://www.fazaileamaal.com 06:09:17 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:09:23 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:09:33 <user_8475> read book http://www.muntakhabahadith.com 06:09:50 <sim-al2> Yes random bot I'm going to click on your sketchy links 06:10:07 <Flygon> Finding an oper 06:10:09 <user_8475> need spiritual teacher visit http://www.alhaadi.org.za 06:10:23 <user_8475> allah created the sky without any pillars 06:11:25 <sim-al2> We do have some converted locomotives like that: https://500px.com/photo/10526447/herzog-mow-locomotive-by-felipe-garcia 06:11:29 <user_8475> allah makes the sun rise from the east and allah makes the sun set in the west 06:11:51 <sim-al2> I assume the new cab and (partial) body rework is for crew comfort 06:12:06 <Flygon> And the OFTC website is cryptic as to who to PM 06:12:09 <sim-al2> You can see the orginal portion at the top and rear 06:12:18 <Flygon> Oh, wow 06:12:24 <Flygon> Yeah, I can see what you mean :D 06:12:40 <user_8475> allah makes the day into the night and allah makes the night into the day 06:13:07 *** kode54 has joined #openttd 06:13:09 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:13:15 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:13:40 <Flygon> Oh, hey, kode54 06:13:46 <kode54> hello 06:13:50 <kode54> I was already on this network anyway 06:14:02 <kode54> figured I'd help report the mess, but it looks like the idiot has gone 06:14:13 <Flygon> Noo, he's still here 06:14:16 <Flygon> user_8475 06:14:19 <kode54> oh 06:14:32 <Flygon> But he's gone mysteriously silent. Maybe your aura shut him up. :U 06:14:54 <Flygon> Until he resumes again. 06:15:13 <Flygon> sim-al2: They look kinda like Hippos 06:15:19 <sim-al2> Hmmm I see that in some photos the Harris units had only a driver-side window while some others have windows on both sides 06:15:31 <sim-al2> lol they do 06:15:44 <Flygon> Yeah, iirc, the later ones got two Windows due to drivers kinda sorta wanting them. 06:15:56 <kode54> well 06:16:00 <kode54> the IP is ramnode 06:16:04 <kode54> the ident is another valid IP 06:16:25 <Flygon> Every time he's /quit and rejoined, it's been the same hostmask. 06:16:39 <kode54> 109.201.131.48 is the ident 06:16:51 <Flygon> I'm beginning to suspect the bot just ran out of stuff to spam 06:17:13 <kode54> another vps account 06:17:22 *** Elec_A has joined #openttd 06:17:26 <kode54> either it's the originator, or this guy is bouncing multiple times 06:18:33 <sim-al2> Dropped a .org.za web link 06:18:53 <kode54> good old south africa 06:19:08 <kode54> last I recall, they were linking to Quran reference sites 06:19:11 <sim-al2> That only begs further questions 06:19:14 <sim-al2> Yeah they are 06:19:30 <sim-al2> I think, not really planning to click on them without precautions 06:20:11 <sim-al2> Flygon there's also a non-powered (I think) variant also rebuilt from a locomotive: http://66.media.tumblr.com/c1371bf3c6d957eee6579f17e8504359/tumblr_nj3zablflf1qaxd5wo2_1280.jpg 06:20:29 <sim-al2> Although it could defintely have a genset in there 06:20:41 <Flygon> I wonder why they'd have it non-powered 06:20:46 <Flygon> Sensitivity of the equipment? 06:21:24 <sim-al2> Oh whoops it is powered 06:22:21 <Flygon> btw, it would seem Red Rattlers in the 2CC-set have near-Metro-like speeds in unloading/reloading 06:22:43 <Flygon> It seems the set designers took into account the amount of doorage 06:23:01 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:23:02 <sim-al2> Although 2cc also has the RENFE high-speed trains with metro-like loading speed, so maybe take it with a grain of salt 06:23:06 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:23:36 <Flygon> The ones that look like a duck? 06:23:58 <sim-al2> Ok yeah I think those units are all actually locomotives, even the ones with completely new bodies: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2951501 06:24:01 <Flygon> Though, the RENFE HST may've been a bug 06:24:14 <sim-al2> Err not the duck ones, the regional 250 km/h ones 06:24:15 <Flygon> Hmm 06:24:25 <Flygon> Wait, got a unit type ID for me? 06:24:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:24:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:24:31 <sim-al2> I can't remember the class name right now, but it loads incredibly quickly 06:24:34 <Flygon> Also, I wonder if they're using that- 06:24:36 <Flygon> Alberth 06:24:39 <Flygon> Thank god you're here 06:24:44 <Alberth> oh dear 06:24:47 <kode54> okay 06:24:49 <kode54> I see now 06:24:54 <kode54> that ip is someone's kiwiirc server 06:25:00 <kode54> and the ident is the ip address they're connected from 06:25:00 <Flygon> While user_8475's quiet as fuck atm, he's actually an Allah-bot 06:25:07 <Flygon> HE would not shut up for 45 minutes 06:25:13 <Flygon> I couldn't get a hold of any oper's 06:25:18 <kode54> feel free to report them both to their respective ISPs 06:25:26 <Flygon> And kode54's been biopsying the shit out of this 06:25:28 <kode54> or owners 06:25:42 <kode54> I wouldn't call it much effort 06:25:47 <kode54> just whois on two ip addresses 06:25:53 <Flygon> I know you can't quite trust me until he restarts his babbling, but I'm gonna have to ask for a good /kickban when he does. @_@ 06:25:57 <sim-al2> Flygon RENFE 120 06:26:00 <kode54> and recognizing that 8 digit hex ident as an ip address 06:26:21 <sim-al2> Even though the real thing was one narrow-ish door per car 06:26:33 <kode54> and now that recent quit, since it managed to stay connected long enough to advertise its default quit message 06:26:46 <Alberth> I think you have very wrong ideas about me 06:27:01 <Flygon> Oh, yeah, that's definitely not suppose to load fadt 06:27:03 <Flygon> Phone 06:29:29 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:29:37 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:33:04 <Flygon> back 06:33:13 <Flygon> But yeah 06:33:16 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:33:20 <Flygon> That RENFE is definitely not suppose to load that fast 06:33:21 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:33:32 <Flygon> Alberth: You're the first ANYONE with the power to do something to be able to help x.x 06:33:38 <Flygon> You're actually AWAKE 06:34:28 <Alberth> ha, not really :p 06:34:32 <Flygon> ??? 06:35:09 <Flygon> Aren't ya staff? 06:37:59 <user_8475> allah gives life and allah gives death 06:38:09 <Flygon> Annnd there he fucking goes 06:38:14 <user_8475> all creation are useless,worthless,hopeless 06:38:18 <user_8475> can not do 06:38:20 <Flygon> Alberth: But... you got the OP powers @_@ 06:38:24 <user_8475> can not benefit 06:38:28 <user_8475> can not harm 06:38:41 <user_8475> allah is the doer of each and everything 06:38:59 <user_8475> when allah wants us to stand we stand 06:39:10 <user_8475> when allah wants us to sit we sit 06:39:20 <kode54> Alberth: ^ 06:39:22 <Alberth> yeah, but so little clue what to type :( 06:39:38 *** user_8475 has quit IRC 06:39:38 <kode54> okay, I don't know what to think about that 06:39:46 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd 06:39:55 <user_8475> i am not doing allah is doing 06:40:02 <user_8475> you are not doing allah is doing 06:40:10 <user_8475> atom bomb is not doing allah is doing 06:40:11 <Flygon> Alberth: We'll record the user data 06:40:11 <kode54> you can /mode #openttd +b *!6dc98930@107.161.19.109 06:40:18 <user_8475> rice is not doing allah is doing 06:40:25 <Flygon> And, yeah 06:40:30 <Flygon> Do what kode54 typed @_@ 06:40:31 <kode54> and /kick #openttd user_8475 bye 06:40:37 <user_8475> all creation get together can not create one grain of rice 06:40:40 *** Alberth sets mode: +b *!6dc98930@107.161.19.109 06:40:58 <kode54> that'll shut him up 06:41:18 <kode54> why are you an op if you don't know common IRC management commands? 06:41:27 <Flygon> Community leader 06:41:28 *** user_8475 was kicked by Alberth (bye) 06:41:34 <kode54> oh 06:41:52 <sim-al2> wow that bot was really getting around 06:41:53 <Alberth> thanks 06:42:07 <Flygon> Thank you, a tonne, kode54 >_< 06:42:09 <kode54> that will keep that particular user out 06:42:16 <kode54> no telling if that IP will do other idents 06:42:25 <kode54> in case this idiot has other shells they can connect through 06:42:32 <kode54> Flygon: no proble 06:42:33 <kode54> m 06:42:40 <sim-al2> In a bunch of debian channels, mingw channels, and https-everywhere 06:42:57 <kode54> I'll see about reporting that combination of ips to their owners 06:43:23 <kode54> kiwiirc owner will probably want to ban whoever that is, if they care about their server 06:44:25 <Alberth> thanks 06:45:33 <kode54> you're welcome 06:46:47 <Flygon> We do need to work on getting additional staff. Allahbots keep popping up around this time. 06:47:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:50:18 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 06:50:33 <user_9484> all humans get together can not stop rain 06:50:48 <user_9484> all humans get together can not make anybody hungry 06:50:56 <Flygon> Paging kode54, Alberth 06:51:05 <user_9484> all humans get together can not move sun one second up or down 06:51:14 <user_9484> we can not count the hair on our head 06:51:17 <Flygon> This may be a good time to teach Alberth just HOW the specific ban method was come up with. 06:51:21 <user_9484> we can not count the rain drops 06:51:33 <user_9484> we can not count the particles of sand 06:51:41 <user_9484> medicine has no power to cure 06:51:43 <Flygon> btw, this same user's in a fucktonne of channels already 06:51:50 <Flygon> We should probably try and get an OPER in 06:51:55 <Flygon> aka. Network Admin 06:51:55 <user_9484> two people take same medicine one passes away and one does not 06:52:02 <user_9484> degree has no power to give job 06:52:13 <user_9484> many people have degrees but do not have jobs 06:52:21 <user_9484> sustenance does not depend on effort 06:52:24 <Alberth> yep, it won't do much good 06:52:37 <Flygon> I mean, it'll shut it up in #openttd, at the very least 06:52:43 <user_9484> one person is working very much but is earning very less 06:52:52 <Alberth> a /ignore works too :p 06:52:56 <user_9484> other person is working very less but is earning very much 06:53:22 <Flygon> They said that about School bullies, and it never got to the root cause of the problem :U 06:53:37 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 06:53:44 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 06:54:28 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 06:56:02 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 06:56:09 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 06:58:23 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 06:58:30 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 06:59:18 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 06:59:25 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:06:30 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:06:39 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:12:20 <kode54> wow 07:12:21 <kode54> another one 07:12:49 <kode54> same kiwi server, different remote ip 07:15:16 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:16:50 <kode54> another nforce.com user 07:17:08 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:17:21 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:22:51 <Alberth> maybe irc is just a bad idea :p 07:23:37 <Elec_A> Hello, May I ask someone please tell me, which file contains the main function of openttd? I am search the files but I cannot find it. 07:23:47 <Elec_A> searching* 07:26:26 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:26:40 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:27:07 <Elec_A> depend.cpp, endian_check.cpp and G5_detector.cpp contain "int main" but none of them are the main function of the program. 07:28:36 <Elec_A> I think I found it. it is in openttd.cpp 07:29:32 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:29:45 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:34:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:35:37 <andythenorth> o/ 07:40:10 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:40:21 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:41:26 *** user_9484 has quit IRC 07:41:32 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd 07:41:47 *** ConductCat has joined #openttd 07:42:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:44:09 <Alberth> o/ 07:45:25 <Alberth> Elec_A: there is src/os/* the main entry point for each type of OS, which then points to openttd.cpp 07:46:12 <Alberth> not sure how useful that is though, it will take ages of searching before finding the low level stuff, that way 07:47:28 <andythenorth> who ever though this was a good idea (that graph is crazy) :) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 07:47:57 <Elec_A> Alberth: Thank you. I'm just interested in studying the code. I'm not going to put my whole time on it. I thought maybe it would be a good programming exercise. 07:48:20 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 07:48:23 <Alberth> andythenorth: it's useful for BB :) 07:49:08 <andythenorth> if the graph had been available when I was designing Extreme, it would have come out very differently :) 07:49:19 <Alberth> Elec_A: it may be more useful to study a particular area, openttd.cpp does a lot of high level stuff, calling other high level stuff, it's very easy to get completely lost there 07:49:24 <andythenorth> ‘designing’ is th wrong word even :P 07:49:40 <Alberth> "throwing together" works :p 07:50:29 <Alberth> I think it was a good strategy though, you could concentrate on making sprites,and getting the code generation up 07:51:30 <Elec_A> Alberth: So how can you add stuff to this game when you don't have overall understanding of the code? you know what I mean? Imagine you are going to add another window to the game, don't you need to write the code of that window in a way that it works optimally with other areas? 07:52:07 <andythenorth> optimally is the wrong quality measure there 07:52:32 <Alberth> Elec_A: I know, working in openttd code since 2007, haven't studied 1/2 of it yet :p 07:52:45 <andythenorth> openttd is quite similar to working on a big web app 07:53:03 <andythenorth> lots of it is quite boxed off, independent, and there’s no sense of a single purpose or vision 07:53:13 <Elec_A> Alberth: wow, So don't you think you have reduced the efficiency of the code? :) 07:53:14 <andythenorth> other aspects tangle their way through everything 07:53:37 <andythenorth> the primary efficiency goal is probably avoiding network desyncs 07:53:39 <Elec_A> andythenorth: oh got it. 07:53:51 <andythenorth> and then making it easy to delete / change / code review 07:53:57 * andythenorth is guessing 07:54:03 <andythenorth> my included patches count is about 2 07:54:07 <andythenorth> and one of those is sprites 07:54:15 <Alberth> well, you typicially look at some other windows to get some ideas how it looks. Then you study the area whatever you want to display or control from the window, then start experimenting 07:54:57 <Alberth> Elec_A: at 300,000+ lines of code, nobody knows every detail 07:55:15 <Elec_A> andythenorth: you know when I write a code and when I want to add some new features, I see that If I redo a major part of the code, it would run faster. 07:55:18 <Alberth> so as andy says, you work in sub-areas 07:55:22 <andythenorth> in some places, I suspect this is the best mental model for it :P http://thecodelesscode.com/case/33 07:55:39 <andythenorth> (scroll to picture) 07:56:09 <Elec_A> Alberth: I see. what a great reference is that! Thank you ! 07:56:15 <Elec_A> I mean andythenorth :) 07:56:22 <Elec_A> andythenorth: Thats a great reference. 07:57:10 <andythenorth> I don’t think it’s a fair representation of a lot of the code :) 07:57:27 <Alberth> and yeah, we might have a sub-optimal piece of code, in fact, I am quite sure of that. Rewriting it is no option though 07:58:20 <Alberth> at best, you find these things, and locally improve 07:58:20 <Elec_A> Alberth: Oh, thank you, so we cannot say that openttd is 100% optimal 07:58:35 <Elec_A> It is interesting. 07:58:39 <Alberth> I don't think you can say that either for any of your programs 07:59:08 <Alberth> it would mean you have verified the solution against all other possible solutions, and found no better one 07:59:34 <Alberth> since "all other possible solutions" is infinitely large, that would take a while 08:00:12 <andythenorth> openttd is ‘optimal’ in that it is one of the most successful open source games 08:00:12 <Alberth> oh, did I mention the program runs at a multitude of CPUs and operating systems? 08:01:05 <Alberth> and motherboards, disk speeds, memory speeds, etc etc 08:01:26 <Elec_A> Alberth: Actually, when I'm talking about being optimal, What comes into my mind is some optimizations in loops and memory consumption. So instead of going through a large loop, using a parralel loop is optimization in my point of view, or reducing the number of generated classes to avoid memory leakages is what I meant. 08:02:15 <Alberth> oh, not doing obviously stupid stuff :) 08:02:21 <Alberth> yep, we do that :) 08:02:30 <Alberth> for as far as possible 08:02:31 <Elec_A> andythenorth: I agree with that. I love this opensource game :) 08:03:16 <Elec_A> Alberth: Oh, Ok. very motivating to learn what's going on in behind the scenes :) (I mean source code) 08:03:47 <Alberth> but clarity in code comes first, compilers tend to be fairly smart in doing smaller optimizations 08:04:21 <Alberth> Elec_A: partly yeah, it also spoils the game, as you know what the code does exactly, rather than guessing its intelligence :p 08:05:20 <Alberth> contributors come and leave, and the next person must be able to pick up and make the next step, at all times 08:05:47 <Elec_A> Alberth: from a discussion, I remember that, A friend told me try to write your code in Python and just convert those part that needs optimization to C++. Do you agree with that? Why openttd is not in Python ? 08:06:35 <Elec_A> Python is much more readable : 08:06:37 <Elec_A> :) 08:07:09 <Alberth> ever tried writing and maintaining a Python program for several years with say 30,000 lines? 08:07:16 <andythenorth> python would likely be much slower, is one reason 08:07:21 <andythenorth> python is slow 08:07:40 * andythenorth cannot back that with objective facts 08:07:51 <Elec_A> Alberth: Nope. Your questioning tone explains everything :) 08:08:04 <Elec_A> andythenorth: Ok. got it. 08:08:20 <Alberth> it has no compile-time checking of types, so it may take years before some edge case happens, and it blows up due to a undefined variable or so 08:08:27 <andythenorth> I have no benchmarks, but I run a company that almost exclusively writes python web apps 08:09:00 <andythenorth> I don’t think python is where you’d start for cross-platform performance of a mid-sized game with multiplayer, on a very wide range of hardware 08:09:03 <Alberth> also, origin of openttd is from assembly language, at a time that Python barely existed 08:09:36 <Elec_A> I'm hearing mind blowing stuff, thank you guys. 08:10:37 <Alberth> but for smaller size programs and limited number of operating systems, Python approach does make sense 08:11:06 <Alberth> but eg Windows is already a major challenge, no Python installed by default, no C/C++ compiler 08:11:21 <Elec_A> that's right. 08:11:23 <Alberth> just getting your optimized program to run is a major hassle 08:12:00 <andythenorth> dunno, these might be cherry-picked benchmarks, it’s easy to make a case with dubious numbers, but http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=python3&lang2=gpp 08:13:21 <Alberth> running low level computations in python is a bad idea 08:14:08 <Alberth> ie "mandelbrot" is not a friendly Python program :) 08:14:24 <Elec_A> andythenorth: I've seen this benchmark before, the thing is that when they say Python it is a pure Python code. The point I was making was to profile a python code and convert the most time consuming part to C++. but according to what you both said before it does not really worth it. 08:14:26 <Alberth> Python is good at glueing libraries together 08:14:58 <Elec_A> Alberth: I like that glueing stuff. I agree. 08:15:32 <Alberth> Elec_A: it is, if you move the main mandelbrot function to C, and call it from Python, you get near the C speed 08:15:47 <Alberth> that's what Python is designed for 08:16:02 <Elec_A> right. 08:16:48 <Alberth> ie, move the 10% code that does 90% of the computation time to C, and write the other 90% of the code in nice Python 08:17:59 <Alberth> although I typically don't care for speed, as long as it's < 8 hours 08:18:28 <Elec_A> Alberth: but the fact that python does not really compile the code to find the compile-time errors is a major drawback. 08:18:36 <Alberth> it's hard to make speed improvements such that dev-time + waiting-time is optimized 08:19:12 <Elec_A> That completely makes sense based on what I learned here. 08:19:47 <Alberth> Elec_A: yep, if you want to see that yourself, come to the corsix-th project, 40,000 lines lua, no documentation, no compile time checking, loads of bugs with deep causes :p 08:20:16 <Elec_A> Alberth: Haha, :) I really had a great time discussing with you. I need to go, its late at night here :) its almost 3:30am :) 08:20:22 <Alberth> ok, bye 08:20:26 <Elec_A> bye :) 08:20:40 <Elec_A> and Thank you again. 08:20:44 <Alberth> yw 08:20:48 *** Elec_A has quit IRC 08:42:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:46:04 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 09:13:03 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 09:13:03 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest24 09:13:04 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 09:15:05 *** Guest24 has quit IRC 09:19:44 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:19:54 <Wolf01> o/ 09:31:12 *** keoz has joined #openttd 09:36:08 <Alberth> o/ 09:46:57 <__ln__> / 09:46:58 <__ln__> o/ 09:47:28 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:56:08 <Alberth> _/ 10:03:34 <Wolf01> \ 10:12:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:12:21 <Wolf01> o/ 10:13:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:13:32 <Wolf01> Meh, I scared the cat 10:15:11 <Alberth> he'll be back :) 10:15:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:15:42 <Wolf01> Yup :) 10:30:10 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 10:33:35 *** Smedles has quit IRC 10:44:56 <andythenorth> such FIRS research 10:45:02 <andythenorth> Wolf01 o/ also 10:45:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:45:42 <Wolf01> We put on another lego black market in the restaurant's parking lot yesterday evening :P 10:45:57 <Wolf01> I finally have the whole mixel series 10:46:01 <andythenorth> ha 10:46:18 <andythenorth> those ball joints always seem like they should be useful 10:46:21 <andythenorth> but never are somehow :) 10:47:34 <Wolf01> I make mechs, they are useful :P But mixels stay mixels 10:47:53 <andythenorth> fair 10:48:19 <andythenorth> so steel making needs limestone (into the blast furnace) and lime (quicklime / calcinated dolomite) 10:48:36 <andythenorth> is lime bulk, liquid, covered? or what? 10:48:55 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ in english is pretty generic, it covers a wide range of industrial products derived from limestone 10:49:01 <andythenorth> google is not my friend today 10:49:09 <Alberth> 'what' seems a nice option 10:49:20 <Wolf01> Usually bulk, could be covered too, at least of what I have seen on tv 10:50:33 <andythenorth> https://farkham4mm.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/pab.jpg 10:50:35 *** bwn has quit IRC 10:50:45 <andythenorth> apparently ^ 10:51:05 <andythenorth> I actually have a half-finished build of that type of wagon, from 20 years ago :P 10:51:10 <Alberth> usually a bit larger, but yep :) 10:51:10 <andythenorth> scratchbuild 10:51:33 <Alberth> scratchhalfbuild, thus 10:51:38 <andythenorth> http://www.industriallime.com/images/tanker3.jpg 10:53:33 <andythenorth> can’t find any evidence of it being transported as liquid 10:53:33 <Alberth> "tanker" is not always a ship, apparently :) 10:53:36 <andythenorth> no :) 10:54:16 *** bwn has joined #openttd 11:27:27 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ or ‘quicklime' 11:37:22 <Alberth> unless you have more than 1 lime kind, prefixes don't add much, do they? 11:37:54 <Alberth> and quick lime immediately raises the question of what slow lime would be :p 11:42:42 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ in some places is just crushed stone, applied to farm fields 11:43:03 <andythenorth> ‘quicklime’ has been through a lime kiln, and is a caustic chemical 11:43:09 <andythenorth> but both are called ‘lime’ in common use :P 11:49:58 <Alberth> as long as no confusion is possible :) 11:52:30 <andythenorth> ach LIME cargo label is taken for limestone 11:52:59 <Alberth> QLME or QLIM :) 11:54:35 <andythenorth> ta 11:56:22 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 'CaO ' 11:56:40 <andythenorth> :D 12:13:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:38:41 *** aard has joined #openttd 12:42:08 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd 12:45:24 *** aard has quit IRC 12:56:35 <michi_cc> Alberth: Seen the screenshot directly above the linked heading at https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/releasenotes/vs2017-relnotes#c-installation-workloads ? 13:00:47 <Alberth> ha, we're famous :D 13:00:47 *** Klanticus has quit IRC 13:00:53 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd 13:00:58 <Alberth> LordAro: ^ 13:01:18 * LordAro awakens from slumber 13:01:21 <LordAro> hrm? 13:02:34 <LordAro> :D 13:13:55 *** Klanticus has quit IRC 13:15:18 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 13:31:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:34:22 <Wolf01> Quak 13:35:07 <Alberth> o/ 13:37:12 <frosch123> moin 13:39:25 * andythenorth adds a coke oven 13:39:29 <andythenorth> dunno about that though 13:39:45 <andythenorth> steel chain is getting bonkers long, to get any final cargo out 13:41:32 *** DDR has quit IRC 13:41:56 <Alberth> keeping players busy :) 13:42:08 <Alberth> "extreme steel" :p 14:00:24 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:00:25 *** maciozo has quit IRC 14:01:19 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:13:27 *** aard has joined #openttd 14:17:25 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 14:17:36 <andythenorth> needs some basics, like a source of food :) 14:18:22 <frosch123> i like the copper chain 14:20:56 <andythenorth> nice isn’t it 14:21:08 <andythenorth> I am not sure where to go with this next 14:21:24 <andythenorth> it’s quite easy to split apart the steel production even further and more detailed 14:21:28 <frosch123> total number of industries seems ok 14:21:33 <andythenorth> or add more vectors to the final product 14:21:34 <frosch123> you just need to clean up the cargos 14:21:39 <andythenorth> e.g. electrical components etc 14:21:43 <frosch123> remove the cargos with no source or destination 14:21:48 <frosch123> and add the missnig cargos 14:21:53 <andythenorth> ha yes 14:21:54 <andythenorth> that 14:21:59 <andythenorth> thanks :P 14:22:01 <frosch123> like, make the port produce engsup instead of copper 14:23:00 <frosch123> maybe also replace glass with aluminium 14:23:13 <frosch123> that appears more steelish to me 14:24:49 <frosch123> you could also try to make it focus on vehicles 14:24:57 <frosch123> and add rubber imports 14:25:28 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 14:25:33 <frosch123> hmm, na, better idea: rename vehicles to rail vehicles :p 14:25:50 <frosch123> cars are stupid, better make a train production chain 14:26:43 <frosch123> chemicals + copper + plastics -> electronics ? 14:27:12 <frosch123> (oh, there is already rubber) 14:27:19 <andythenorth> there is a tyre plant 14:27:38 <frosch123> maybe remove liquids terminal/oil/rubber? not related to trains 14:27:40 <andythenorth> I was getting a bit carried away with charcoal and iron and stuff at the input end 14:27:51 <andythenorth> I think vehicles are more interesting end maybe 14:27:58 <frosch123> i think the iron/charcoal part is fine 14:28:00 <andythenorth> or split out chemicals, but that’s all tankers 14:28:01 <Wolf01> copper->copper plates->coils + iron->iron plates -> electronics 14:28:13 <frosch123> Wolf01: no :p 14:28:28 <andythenorth> electronics can go in a japan/china economy 14:28:37 <Wolf01> electronics + plastic -> better electronics 14:28:44 <andythenorth> I have about 4 more economies in mind, then it’s ‘done' 14:29:08 <frosch123> ok, so you want to build old cars without electronics :) 14:29:19 <Wolf01> Do a factorio economy 14:29:27 <andythenorth> I thought about basic electrical machines factory 14:29:32 <andythenorth> copper + such 14:29:35 <andythenorth> or not 14:30:18 <andythenorth> I could also split out vehicles 14:30:30 <andythenorth> bodies + drivetrain + parts = vehicles 14:31:14 <andythenorth> the main thing now is to find cargos that look interesting as loads 14:31:15 <andythenorth> :D 14:32:09 <frosch123> the standard steel mill add-ons would be roller mills and pipe mills 14:32:16 <frosch123> but no idea how to continue from there :) 14:32:21 <andythenorth> pipe mill = building materials 14:32:28 <andythenorth> roller = plate -> shipyard, etc 14:32:43 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:34:15 <Wolf01> Is NRT? I finished to play with lego today, I need to order more parts to continue 14:36:58 * andythenorth could NRT 14:37:22 <andythenorth> give or take children wanting to build great ball chain contraptions 14:38:07 <Wolf01> Give them some of the 2015-16 sets and make one module with each one 14:39:38 <andythenorth> they ‘make’ things by searching youtube and saying ‘make me this’ :P 14:39:44 <andythenorth> and GBC needs a lot of tuning 14:39:58 <Wolf01> http://pv-productions.com/product-category/lego/ <- 14:40:36 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGRuzbjWto look what you can build with the Claas 14:40:39 *** Gja has quit IRC 14:48:54 <andythenorth> awesome 14:48:59 <andythenorth> GBC is nuts 14:49:44 <andythenorth> I would never think of these mechanisms 14:51:26 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:54:20 <andythenorth> is it time for NRT vehicle stuff yet? 14:54:24 <andythenorth> or are we still drawing? 14:54:38 <andythenorth> frosch123: do we need road-depot ground tiles? o_O 14:54:46 <Wolf01> We are still arguing on how NRT should be done 14:55:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: we already have them? 14:55:25 <andythenorth> we do? 14:55:27 <frosch123> though they look like a rail depot :) 14:55:31 * andythenorth hasn’t drawn any 14:55:33 <andythenorth> oic :) 14:55:54 <frosch123> Wolf01: are we? 14:56:07 <frosch123> i am adding level crossings now 14:56:11 <Wolf01> I think we finally decided for 15 types, but not sure 14:56:20 <frosch123> i think i can also draw tram crossing without road 14:56:25 <frosch123> Wolf01: yes we did 14:56:36 <frosch123> thus m7 6..7 should be freed 14:56:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: you can, I have a patch for that from years ago :) 14:56:51 <frosch123> do you have a screenshot? 14:56:59 * andythenorth looks 14:58:51 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8204/road-rail-crossing-10.png 14:59:19 <Wolf01> Maglev crossing is ugly AF 14:59:19 <andythenorth> I abandoned it because it got a ’meh’ response, didn’t look like it would get included and maglev looks stupid also 14:59:20 <frosch123> yep, looks like i would draw them now 15:00:00 <frosch123> hmm, actually not sure 15:00:07 <frosch123> maybe they would look different 15:00:26 <frosch123> not sure what is underlay/overlay for maglev 15:01:31 <frosch123> anyway, maglev/monorail-tram-crossing does not look more stupid than the maglev/monorail-road-crossing :) 15:03:29 <andythenorth> file it under ‘maglev is ugly’ 15:03:31 <andythenorth> in base set 15:03:37 <andythenorth> ban crossings on maglev :P 15:04:01 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd 15:04:50 <Rubidium> actually the junctions of monorail and maglev are ugly as well 15:05:00 <andythenorth> +1 15:05:08 * andythenorth considers doing a maglev set 15:05:13 <andythenorth> ...nah 15:05:17 <Rubidium> though in theory I could imagine providing different sprites for the junctions based on the path reservation through it 15:05:52 <Rubidium> would even help normal rail switches in zoom-in level maximum 15:06:29 <frosch123> i think newrailtypes already provide that 15:06:39 <Rubidium> i.e. based on the path reservation one tongue is open and the other closed (or 15:06:46 <frosch123> they have custom level crossing graphics, and they can check the reservation stage 15:06:54 <Rubidium> whatever it's called in proper English) 15:07:24 <Rubidium> if that's the case, based on the reservation you could draw a different sprite 15:07:54 <Rubidium> i.e. with reservation draw the maglev, without it draw the tram/road as if the maglev is dropped below the road surface 15:08:41 <andythenorth> that would look better 15:14:44 <Wolf01> This https://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/grf/235/TR_GC_L.png looked really good 15:15:33 <andythenorth> hax :) 15:19:28 <Alberth> Rb: these maglev tracks are a lot better https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75240 15:20:13 <Wolf01> Yup, they look really cool 15:20:47 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:22:35 *** maciozo has quit IRC 15:23:46 <andythenorth> bit heavy to my eye 15:23:54 <andythenorth> not clear if they’re steel or concrete, or whatever 15:24:02 <Wolf01> ROADSUBTYPE_END = 14, or better as 0xE? 15:24:35 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 15:25:33 <frosch123> 14 is fine :) 15:27:10 <andythenorth> :o 15:27:17 <andythenorth> Steeltown economy does not have alcohol 15:27:21 <andythenorth> that’s not standard 15:27:49 <Alberth> :D 15:28:02 <Wolf01> Mmmh, no, it should be 15 not 14 15:29:08 <Wolf01> I hope it won't confuse with INVALID_ROADSUBTYPE 15:29:13 <Alberth> inclusive or exclusive boundary? otherwise, you may want to name it *LAST 15:29:15 <Wolf01> Which need to be 0xF 15:29:33 <Wolf01> Exclusive 15:29:50 <Alberth> yeah, I guessed as much from the previous sentence :) 15:29:53 <Wolf01> Is used to initialize arrays 15:29:56 <Alberth> should be fine 15:30:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:33:39 * andythenorth needs food 15:33:53 <andythenorth> farm only? 15:34:40 <Wolf01> andythenorth, how to reintegrate a branch? I think it's better to work directly on road-and-tram-types and just use local branches if needed 15:34:59 <andythenorth> just merge it? 15:35:29 <Wolf01> Ok, then I simply won't use anymore the "wolf" branch 15:36:58 <andythenorth> yeah just merge your stuff into road-and-tram-types 15:37:13 <Wolf01> frosch123, already did that some days ago 15:37:17 <andythenorth> I’d only use a feature branch if we hit a stable point, and start something new, like vehicle routing 15:37:26 <andythenorth> then we have a stable candidate, and unstable feature branch 15:42:19 <frosch123> Wolf01: https://help.github.com/articles/deleting-unused-branches/ 15:44:10 <frosch123> https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/branches <- resp, the trash buttons on that page 15:44:55 <Wolf01> Ok, we could delete some branches then, wolf, dev, gui... 15:45:10 <frosch123> revert-9-master :) 15:45:40 <Wolf01> Good, much clean now :P 15:46:47 <Alberth> :) 15:47:30 <Wolf01> Is it possible to delete a forked repository too? 15:47:47 <andythenorth> probably in github 15:47:59 <andythenorth> you’re the owner so only you can do it probably 15:48:10 <Wolf01> There's a delete in "danger zone" 15:48:11 <andythenorth> it’s hard to keep git branches deleted btw :P 15:48:27 <andythenorth> they tend to come back from the dead 15:50:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:53:47 <Wolf01> Ok, at least now removing the roadstop it restores normal road 15:53:55 <Wolf01> I need to restore the right road type 15:55:24 <andythenorth> \o/ 16:04:24 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 16:07:03 <andythenorth> tyres, drivetrain components, windscreens, bodies, electrical parts, trim parts 16:07:10 <andythenorth> 6 into 3 don’t go :P 16:09:27 <Alberth> tires + drive train + bodies merge ? 16:10:54 <Alberth> or windscreens + electrical parts -> car doors? 16:10:56 <andythenorth> I can consolidate parts in a warehouse 16:11:04 <andythenorth> is IRL :P 16:11:07 <Alberth> not sure what trim parts are 16:11:33 <andythenorth> seats and stuff 16:11:37 <andythenorth> also plastci 16:11:40 <andythenorth> plastic * 16:11:46 <Alberth> ah, things and stuff :) 16:11:50 <andythenorth> but I don’t have textiles in this economy :) 16:11:53 <andythenorth> so eh 16:12:03 <andythenorth> engine plant -> drivetrain components 16:12:05 <Alberth> it's all fake leather :p 16:12:36 <andythenorth> body plant -> vehicle bodies 16:12:38 <Alberth> you could make an "upgrade" factory to enhance the cars :) 16:12:41 <andythenorth> ha ha 16:12:43 <andythenorth> ‘respray' 16:13:01 <Alberth> better seats, bigger engine, etc 16:13:07 <andythenorth> ‘level up' 16:13:12 <Alberth> :D 16:13:22 <andythenorth> I dunno, the vehicle chain might be getting too detailed :P 16:13:29 <andythenorth> it’s Steeltown not Motown 16:13:43 * andythenorth exploring different options this could have 16:14:03 <andythenorth> I kind of wanted to explore chemicals more 16:14:13 <andythenorth> or slag -> cement 16:14:34 <Alberth> but you have chemicals elsewhere too, iirc 16:14:58 <andythenorth> not in much detail 16:15:09 <andythenorth> the downside, it’s all just tanker trucks / wagons 16:15:17 <andythenorth> tankers -> more tankers 16:15:22 <andythenorth> in different colours 16:15:28 <Alberth> clearly it needs an open tanker 16:16:10 <Alberth> and sprinkling colours, like neon light green, yellow, orange 16:16:45 <andythenorth> fire cycle 16:16:54 <Alberth> all these silly RL ideas :p 16:17:18 <Alberth> nah, that would be the magic potion industry chain 16:17:35 <andythenorth> glow sticks factory http://www.altereglow.co.uk/_images/_products_0/4_923_l.jpg 16:17:59 <Alberth> +1 16:18:07 <andythenorth> biab 16:18:09 <Alberth> it only needs a glowing factory :p 16:19:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think you added additional sprites for your crossing back then 16:20:30 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_crossing_no_second_overlay.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_crossing_no_second_overlay_ogfx.png 16:20:37 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_crossing_with_second_overlay.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nrt_crossing_with_second_overlay_ogfx.png 16:20:52 <frosch123> "with" looks better than "no" for everything but default roadf 16:21:39 <frosch123> maglev is hopeless :) 16:21:54 <frosch123> but newrailtypes should be fine 16:28:47 *** lobstar has quit IRC 16:30:56 <Klanticus> hey guys, is there any way no name an order list? 16:31:08 *** lobstar has joined #openttd 16:31:30 <frosch123> no, you can only name vehicles and vehicle groups 16:31:46 <frosch123> usualy people name vehicle groups and put all vehicles with shared orders into a group 16:31:54 *** mescalito has quit IRC 16:32:06 <Klanticus> would you accept a patch to allow that? 16:33:00 <frosch123> where would such a name be shown? 16:33:15 <frosch123> you cannot select order list anywhere, can you? 16:34:43 <Klanticus> I think it could be displayed inside the order list window, and on another window, showing all lists (by their name) 16:35:15 <frosch123> so it adds a another way to group vehicles other than vehicle groups 16:35:18 <Klanticus> ultimately i'd like to be able to display detailed information obout any order list 16:35:36 <frosch123> do you know about vehicle groups 16:35:45 <frosch123> you suggest something that is *very* similar to vehicle groups 16:36:01 <frosch123> there are various patches which create tons of information for vehicle groups 16:36:41 <Klanticus> the main problem with them is that you have to change them every time you add a new vehicle to a route 16:36:59 <Klanticus> if that wasn't the case, they'd be great 16:37:06 <frosch123> without thinking about the implications, i would think you rather want some setting like "automatically put vehicles with shared orders into new vehicle groups" or something 16:37:07 <Sylf> You just can't select the set of orders from a drop-down list currently - you have to find a vehicle with the exact order you want to copy, then clone the vehicle/orders 16:37:23 <Alberth> generalizing vehicle groups could be an alternative path 16:37:25 <frosch123> Klanticus: shared-cloning also copies the group 16:37:40 <Sylf> So, the only thing that's missing is the UI for list of unique orders - that's what it sounds like to me 16:37:45 <Klanticus> frosch123: really? That I didn't knew 16:38:33 <Klanticus> so it looks like a better way is to work on top of vehicle groups 16:38:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: I don’t remember drawing extra sprites, I wouldn’t have known how to add them to the game :) 16:38:59 <andythenorth> I think I did abuse the PBS overlay sprite though 16:39:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: i drew just those in the "with" screenshots 16:39:32 <andythenorth> makes sense 16:39:47 <frosch123> Klanticus: extending vehicle groups would make it less redunant/confusing imho 16:39:56 <Klanticus> but I still think they would be more useable if tied to an order list, somehow 16:40:10 <andythenorth> vehicle groups are more arbitrary than that 16:40:17 <andythenorth> although arguably that’s a weakness 16:40:39 <Klanticus> yeah.. there's no easy way to see how much profit I get from a route 16:41:18 <Klanticus> I could add that statistic to vehicle groups, but then the player would need to keep it always up to date 16:41:20 <Wolf01> andythenorth, enjoy your new roadstops 16:41:29 <frosch123> i would suggest a setting "put vehicles automatically in a new vehicle group, when sharing orders and the vehicles are not yet in a group" 16:41:52 <Wolf01> It still trigger an assert when removing the roadstops if you drag and drop an area without a roadstop inside 16:41:55 <frosch123> Klanticus: there are already patches for vehicle group statistics 16:42:00 <Wolf01> I''m not sure on what to do there 16:42:27 <frosch123> Wolf01: i just fixed RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile wrt that 16:42:33 * andythenorth pulls 16:42:37 <Klanticus> frosch123: looks like a good idea. Are those patches on flyspray? 16:42:41 <Wolf01> Uhm, I fixed it too 16:42:47 <frosch123> all problems arise from using GetRoadBits instead of GetRoadTypes in various places 16:43:44 <Wolf01> But GetRoadTypes should be deprecated, or changed to extract them from roadbits+subtypes 16:43:45 <frosch123> Klanticus: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72855 <- that is also part of jgr pack (assuming jgr would use the newest incarnation of patches like that) 16:45:54 <Klanticus> frosch123: thanks! As a matter of curiosity, any reason for not merging it in trunk? 16:46:48 <andythenorth> Wolf01: yay stops :) 16:47:00 <frosch123> personally i don't care about money and spreadsheets in ottd. no idea about other people's opinion 16:48:32 <frosch123> Wolf01: do not use roadbits, only subtypes 16:48:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: if it was a train factory…train cargo? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sbcc3rmBFRo/TzzJb5NhRUI/AAAAAAAADeo/ne6FfqzImJI/s1600/Vale%2BMining%2BEMD.jpg 16:48:48 <frosch123> roadbits only exist for 1 of 5 tiletypes with road or something 16:52:23 <Wolf01> if (GetAnyRoadBits(t, ROADTYPE_TRAM) != ROAD_NONE) { -> GB(_m[t].m4, 0, 4) != INVALID_ROAD_SUBTYPE ?? 16:52:48 <frosch123> why? 16:53:17 <Wolf01> How would you do that? 16:53:36 <frosch123> bool HasRoadTypeRoad(TileType tile) { return GetRoadSubtype(tile) == INVALID_ROADSUBTYPE; } 16:54:00 <frosch123> the subtype specifies whether there is any road 16:54:10 <frosch123> subtype exists for *all* roady tiles 16:54:58 <frosch123> it needs a savegame conversion to move m7 6..7 to m4 16:55:04 <Wolf01> But HasRoadTypeRoad uses RoadTypeIdentifiers, I'm creating the RoadTypeIdentifiers -> recursion 16:55:13 <frosch123> but after that m4 can give the information that m7 had 16:55:44 <Wolf01> I would change HasRoadTypeRoad to GB(_m[t].m4, 0, 4) != INVALID_ROAD_SUBTYPE 16:55:46 <frosch123> RoadTypeIdentifiers can directly read m4 16:55:52 <frosch123> it does not need to check any bits 16:58:42 <Wolf01> I can't follow you 17:00:16 <Wolf01> HasRoadTypeRoad/Tram(TileIndex t) are a bit weird and shouldn't use RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile() but instead check m4 imho 17:06:00 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbiz8js5r?/pbiz8js5r <- i mean like that 17:06:12 <frosch123> removing all usage of m7 and use m4 instead 17:06:30 <frosch123> RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile is very simple now 17:06:36 <frosch123> it does not need to check tiletypes or similar 17:06:57 <frosch123> because the INVALID is directly stored in m4 17:08:23 <Wolf01> Oh, ok 17:09:29 <andythenorth> ach 17:09:37 * andythenorth is getting too obsessed with vehicle chain :( 17:16:14 <Wolf01> Ok, this assers in GetRoadTypeInfo, somewhere the roadtype is 0xF 17:16:19 <Wolf01> *asserts 17:16:39 <frosch123> yes, that is my fault 17:16:44 <frosch123> i was about to patch that 17:17:04 <frosch123> i use GetRoadTypeInfo in all drawing functions, without checking the presence first 17:17:16 <frosch123> just wait until i am done with dinner, then i can fix that :) 17:17:20 <Wolf01> Np 17:17:57 <andythenorth> hmm 17:18:03 <andythenorth> ‘paint’ is not an interesting cargo? 17:18:44 <andythenorth> it moves in crates or cans, and not in high volume 17:18:52 <andythenorth> might as well be chemicals or manufacturing supplies 17:19:00 <frosch123> "paint" gets very interesting very fast, if you transport it in open vans 17:19:11 <andythenorth> we don’t have particle generator 17:19:24 <andythenorth> could use extended vehicle effects though 17:19:34 <andythenorth> tyres are interesting visually? Or at least different? 17:20:17 <andythenorth> http://www.bbscshipping.com/uploads/img/gallery/16_foto2.JPG 17:25:12 <Wolf01> Because makyng them rolling was too easy? 17:25:16 <Wolf01> *making 17:31:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:33:50 *** aard has quit IRC 17:34:46 <andythenorth> ‘vehicle bodies’ cargo? http://automotivelogistics.media/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Hyttlossning-3.jpg 17:37:49 <Wolf01> There's a similar thing next to my town 17:39:35 *** Klanticus has quit IRC 17:39:53 <FLHerne> andythenorth: UKRS2 (+)? has some vehicle wagons, they look rather good 17:40:15 <andythenorth> I drew them :) 17:40:26 <andythenorth> ‘just saying’ :) 17:40:27 <FLHerne> Ah, that would be why they look so good :D 17:40:31 <andythenorth> :P 17:50:16 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:50:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:58:33 <frosch123> Wolf01: pull 18:00:42 <Alberth> andy, the vehicle factory should make those big mining trucks :) 18:02:53 <Wolf01> There's a strange overlay/underlay on everything with the changes to HasRoadTypeRoad/Tram, or do you see them too? 18:03:08 <frosch123> yes, that is missing savegame conversion 18:03:23 <frosch123> noone convers m7 to m4 18:03:39 <frosch123> so all tiles get road+tram subtype 0 18:03:52 <Wolf01> Oh, ok 18:16:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: that’s the Machine Shop :) 18:16:29 <andythenorth> file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/industries.html#machine_shop 18:16:31 <andythenorth> oops 18:16:43 <andythenorth> I should make a plugin for my irc client to stop doing that :P 18:16:53 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#machine_shop 18:19:39 <Alberth> nice :) 18:46:20 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:51:38 *** NobCat has joined #openttd 19:06:22 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:26:18 <andythenorth> slag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn-XnwHvcQ4 19:36:51 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:42:06 <andythenorth> http://www.euroslag.com/ 19:46:54 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd 19:47:01 <andythenorth> ha 19:47:18 <andythenorth> slag is being tested as marine fertiliser for seabeds that have become desert 19:47:24 <andythenorth> deliver it to fishing grounds :P 19:49:48 <andythenorth> ‘ag slag’ 19:51:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:51:09 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 19:51:57 <frosch123> i don't think they dump it in hot state 20:00:43 *** aard has joined #openttd 20:08:29 <andythenorth> we could pretend? o_O 20:10:46 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 20:11:19 <frosch123> with animation? 20:11:26 <frosch123> like at the end of your video? 20:11:34 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:18:21 *** maciozo_ has joined #openttd 20:18:38 *** tane has joined #openttd 20:20:46 <andythenorth> it could be a method of fishing? 20:21:32 *** maciozo has quit IRC 20:21:32 *** maciozo_ is now known as maciozo 20:22:01 <tane> howdy 20:22:25 <tane> is there a way to get data out of openttd, e.g. cargo waiting by station etc? 20:27:32 <frosch123> there are gamescript, there is the admin port, there is source code 20:28:06 <frosch123> there are gamescripts talking via the admin port with the outside world 20:28:08 * andythenorth wonders if ‘slag’ cargo is going to produce childish reaction :P 20:28:34 <frosch123> it all depends on your preconditions, whether you can modify the source, or whether you require an unmodified binary 20:31:15 <tane> just trying to enhance my single player experience, so I can work on all of it, just trying to determine the work required and best way to access the data 20:32:44 <Wolf01> andythenorth, transport fever has slag cargo 20:33:00 <frosch123> without modifying the ottd source, i guess all other options are linked from https://wiki.openttd.org/Server_admin_port 20:33:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean everyone would read it as "slug"? 20:34:23 <andythenorth> ‘slag’ means something different in UK English :P 20:34:36 <tane> frosch123, thanks 20:34:38 <andythenorth> ha ha Train Fever comments are referencing FIRS http://www.transportfever.com/transport-fever-developer-blog-5-cargo-system/ 20:35:40 <andythenorth> Wolf01: are there any docs about TF cargos? 20:35:43 * andythenorth can’t find them 20:37:15 <Wolf01> "About 20 cargo types (six end products are required by towns)" 20:37:33 <andythenorth> that’s all I could find :) 20:37:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/industrie403zbpy49jhm.png 20:38:30 <frosch123> it even has a "smithy forge" 20:38:38 <Wolf01> That's a mod 20:38:38 <andythenorth> so I see :) 20:38:38 <frosch123> is that a common name, or is that copied from firs? :p 20:38:51 <andythenorth> from FIRS 20:39:00 <frosch123> Wolf01: ah, then the mod copied it from firs :) 20:39:09 <andythenorth> much of FIRS is copied from various Railroad Tycoon versions 20:39:17 <Wolf01> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=789179397 20:39:22 <andythenorth> but that mod is basically FIRS in TF 20:39:38 <Wolf01> You can also have different byproducts based on what you deliver to a factory 20:39:59 <Wolf01> (cargo diagram at the end) 20:40:22 <frosch123> ok, the plain tf chain looks a lot like ttd temperate 20:40:29 <frosch123> i guess all standard :) 20:40:49 <Wolf01> Yes, the only difference is the construction materials plant 20:41:03 <frosch123> and the chemical plant 20:41:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: tf firs has "paint" :) 20:42:03 <andythenorth> :P 20:42:06 <frosch123> no idea what a "sport factory" is 20:42:07 <andythenorth> ‘paint tanker' 20:42:56 <frosch123> oh, it even replicated the stupid bank valuables cycle 20:44:39 <frosch123> never mind, it's actually only a "suggestion" :p 20:44:46 <Alberth> :p 20:45:00 <frosch123> and then many "does not work in tf due to X and Y bugs" 20:47:26 <andythenorth> hmm 20:47:39 <andythenorth> so steel slag is sometimes left to cool and then ‘mined’ 20:47:50 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 20:47:52 <andythenorth> I could just fill the FIRS quarry with fire cycle 20:48:05 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#quarry 20:49:11 <andythenorth> http://research.ncl.ac.uk/engscc/assets/scunthorpe.jpg 20:49:25 <andythenorth> made by https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsve9ekIYAAHewH.jpg:large 20:50:57 <andythenorth> even has the dragline :P http://www.clugston.co.uk/x/img/historyimg.jpg 20:54:55 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:57:57 <andythenorth> I’d have to recreate the fire cycle in frames though 20:58:04 <andythenorth> it doesn’t work any more for me 21:04:47 <Alberth> nn 21:04:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:05:06 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:08:32 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 21:08:32 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest65 21:08:32 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 21:12:00 *** Guest65 has quit IRC 21:29:05 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:32:54 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 21:33:56 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:39:18 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:57:19 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:07:32 *** Gja has joined #openttd 22:12:54 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 22:12:54 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest67 22:12:54 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 22:18:09 *** Guest67 has quit IRC 22:25:30 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:31:41 *** APTX has quit IRC 22:32:29 *** APTX has joined #openttd 22:44:09 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:46:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:55:05 *** tane has quit IRC 22:55:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:59:16 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:09:45 *** Arveen has quit IRC 23:13:51 *** DDR has joined #openttd 23:14:20 *** aard has quit IRC 23:28:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 23:28:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:35:10 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:53:45 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 23:54:29 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd