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IRC 07:48:53 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 07:49:57 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:49:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:56:40 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:01:21 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 08:05:43 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 08:17:35 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#cargos 08:17:41 <andythenorth> (sort by ‘colour’) 08:43:11 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 09:32:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:37:39 *** APTX has joined #openttd 10:05:13 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:10:14 *** APTX has quit IRC 10:10:50 *** APTX has joined #openttd 10:21:24 *** APTX has quit IRC 10:24:18 *** APTX has joined #openttd 10:45:42 <andythenorth> eh, cargo prop 14 "Color for the cargo payment list window” 10:45:51 <andythenorth> what happens if the value is 0? 11:35:32 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 11:43:03 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:02:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 12:11:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:14:44 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 12:30:14 *** cosmobird_ has quit IRC 12:47:20 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:49:51 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:00:29 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:05:24 <supermop_home> can figure out stacking at all 13:06:03 <supermop_home> nml docs seem like they are skipping over a lot of prior knowledge I should have 13:14:10 <supermop_home> if I put "XXX_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK" in misc flags - I assumed the XXX should be ROADVEHS 13:14:21 <supermop_home> but nmlc doesnt recognize that 13:15:46 <supermop_home> andy, do you have and stacking code in nml? I only saw python stuff on sam on devzone 13:18:41 <supermop_home> also frosch's example doesn't contain the "STORE_TEMP(CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES | recolouring, 0x100)" line from the docs 13:19:51 <FLHerne> supermop_home: In global_constants.py, it's `ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK` without an S 13:20:15 <supermop_home> OH 13:20:22 <supermop_home> well hope that helps 13:20:25 <FLHerne> It's all Python, the source is the ultimate documentation :P 13:21:06 <FLHerne> Oh, it is in the docs too 13:21:10 <supermop_home> still don't really understand frosch's switch but ill see if it works cargo-cult style 13:21:20 <FLHerne> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Road_vehicle_properties -- ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK is under misc_flags 13:21:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: colour 0 is only transparent within sprites 13:21:57 <frosch123> in other places it will turn out as black 13:25:30 <frosch123> supermop_home: CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES is the 0x80000000 in my code 13:25:44 <frosch123> my code is from before those constants were added to nml, so it contains the raw values 13:26:17 <supermop_home> can I change that directly to CB_FLAG...etc ? 13:29:20 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psetauyml <- simplified 13:29:26 <frosch123> without the recoloring stuff 13:29:58 <frosch123> replace NNN with the index of the last part 13:32:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: but it is preferred to use 1 for black 13:32:30 <frosch123> though technically it is #101010 13:33:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: that page needs a filter selection for climates btw :) 13:33:03 <andythenorth> I wondered if it was valid or accidental 13:33:11 <andythenorth> I might change the 0s to 1s 13:41:17 *** FR^2 has left #openttd 13:42:31 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:45:20 <supermop_home> it says "ungrecognized identifier 'CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES' encountered 13:46:20 <supermop_home> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/powlnrvbz 13:47:44 <frosch123> what nml version do you have? 13:48:26 <frosch123> you need one that is newer than 2016-10-16 13:48:48 <supermop_home> unknown 13:48:48 <supermop_home> Library versions encountered: 13:48:48 <supermop_home> PLY: 3.4 13:48:48 <supermop_home> PIL: 1.1.7 13:49:10 <supermop_home> Its the one that works with NRT 13:49:19 <supermop_home> assume there is only one of those 13:49:44 <supermop_home> --version returns the above lines starting with 'unknown' 13:50:35 <frosch123> nrt nml started 2016-09-24 13:50:39 <frosch123> we never synced it :) 13:50:47 <frosch123> i'll build a new one for you 13:50:58 <supermop_home> :o 13:51:22 <frosch123> actually... andythenorth: how did you pull nml from hg -> git? 14:00:41 *** keoz has quit IRC 14:01:04 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:01:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:07:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: I just imported using github UI 14:07:07 <andythenorth> iirc 14:07:16 <frosch123> can that also pull again? 14:07:24 <andythenorth> likely yes 14:07:35 * andythenorth tests 14:07:46 <frosch123> i didn't find anything, but maybe it's because it's your repository 14:07:51 <supermop_home> do people really need refridgerated trams 14:08:13 <frosch123> usually they just call it air conditioning 14:08:32 <andythenorth> hmm, not so much in github for this 14:08:38 <andythenorth> either have to use a hg-git bridge 14:08:41 <supermop_home> I mean for food - they can use road hog for that 14:08:52 <andythenorth> or we code review NRT stuff and move it into a branch on official nml 14:08:56 <andythenorth> :P 14:09:10 * andythenorth biab, wifi admin 14:11:12 <supermop_home> just add nrt to trunk 14:15:24 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:19:01 *** Montana has joined #openttd 14:21:09 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:32:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:34:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:43:31 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 14:48:46 *** rubenwardy has joined #openttd 14:52:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:53:20 *** roidal has joined #openttd 14:55:27 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:59:20 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 15:02:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: i found some way 15:03:35 <andythenorth> ? 15:03:46 <frosch123> to transfer changesets 15:04:28 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:07:35 <andythenorth> using the github UI, or something else? 15:08:18 <frosch123> i converted the complete repository again using git remote extensions 15:08:31 <frosch123> then transfered the patches with git methods, format-patch and am 15:09:14 <andythenorth> nice 15:13:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:13:55 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:14:54 <frosch123> supermop_home: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/nml-nrt-latest-win32.zip <- try again 15:15:03 <supermop_home> coool 15:15:07 <supermop_home> thanks! 15:21:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:21:54 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:21:59 <andythenorth> hmm 15:22:13 <andythenorth> could we code review the nmlc fork? 15:22:25 <andythenorth> or do we wait to see if spec evolves? 15:22:38 <frosch123> i think i already checked nml last year 15:22:49 <frosch123> but someones needs to finish the ottd part :) 15:23:17 <andythenorth> the example grfs I made are a bit ropey :P 15:23:23 <andythenorth> but not inclined to shiny them 15:23:42 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:26:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:27:13 <andythenorth> what label should I use for Feldbanh / Decauville stuff? 15:27:59 <andythenorth> http://www.uhlenhooker-feldbahn.de/images/Wg.-6,-neu1.jpg 15:29:35 <frosch123> NAAN according to Eddit's https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Standardized_Railtype_Scheme 15:29:59 <frosch123> narrow gauge, lowest speed and axle load, no electrification 15:30:30 <andythenorth> such electric version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA3WjsvGowc 15:30:35 <andythenorth> but eh, not in my plan 15:30:36 <frosch123> also used in french set for Narrow gauge, unelectrified 15:30:50 <frosch123> anyway, any difference between feldbahn and narrow gauge? 15:31:37 <supermop_home> andythenorth: I use RLOW 15:31:37 <andythenorth> density 15:31:50 *** Snail has quit IRC 15:32:10 <frosch123> density? 15:32:28 <supermop_home> saying narrow gauge seems redundant for tramtype unless you want to specify this is like 1 foot or 600mm and no other trams can fit on it 15:32:46 <andythenorth> two directions per tile, and no need for signals 15:32:49 <andythenorth> also station density 15:32:54 <supermop_home> different between SG and NG trams doesn't really show up in Openttd 15:33:31 <andythenorth> trams are for town and big industry 15:33:38 <frosch123> well, if it's a tram type, then as supermop says 15:33:46 <supermop_home> so unless your feldbahn is meant to be 'smaller than other tiny industrial trains' idk if you need it 15:33:55 <andythenorth> dunno what it is, but it’s an update to the HEQS trams 15:34:01 <andythenorth> maybe the label should be HEQS :P 15:34:31 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:35:06 <supermop_home> if HEQS can run on my docklands tiles without me needing to add more types id' be happy 15:35:33 <andythenorth> what is RLOW then? 15:35:46 <supermop_home> low speed rail 15:36:00 <supermop_home> the shittiest tramway in unspooled 15:36:12 <supermop_home> regular is RAIL or ELRL 15:36:55 <supermop_home> don't need to call it NG because regular trains will never end up on a tramway tile 15:36:58 <supermop_home> yet 15:39:57 <andythenorth> I am not worrying about it being NG or not :) 15:40:04 <andythenorth> it’s just some kind of industrial rail 15:40:16 <andythenorth> like I called it HAUL rather than mud-road or whatever 15:40:39 <andythenorth> hmm 15:41:17 <supermop_home> ok 15:41:48 <andythenorth> I had the idea that all HAUL might be un-articulated 15:41:51 <andythenorth> and can use drive in stops 15:41:54 <andythenorth> might be stupid 15:42:02 *** nekomaster has joined #openttd 15:42:10 <supermop_home> Tonka trucks will be a tight squeeze 15:42:11 <nekomaster> well now I need help again >_> 15:42:49 <nekomaster> I need NML code to change the graphics of a Doodlebug when its refit so that it has a sprite for carring passengers, and a sprite for when its refit for goods or mail 15:43:36 <nekomaster> I tried making some code from 2cc trains code but I can't get it to work because the compiler complains about an unexpected token "switch" 15:44:15 <supermop_home> nekomaster try this, but with other spritegroups obviously: 15:44:31 <supermop_home> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phr7gnspn 15:45:01 <supermop_home> if the switch is unexpected token you probably forgot a } or ; or something before it 15:45:27 <supermop_home> brb laundry 15:45:30 <nekomaster> thing is I checked over it 15:45:39 <andythenorth> paste 15:46:26 <nekomaster> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pivzyf2oj 15:46:46 <nekomaster> Then I use this switch in the graphics section 15:46:48 <nekomaster> switch_RAILBUS_DIESEL_NG_DOODLEBUG_cargo_selection; 15:47:08 <supermop_home> whats on line above that in the graphics cbs 15:47:22 <supermop_home> maybe you missed a : there 15:47:24 <supermop_home> ; 15:47:32 <nekomaster> what? 15:47:41 <nekomaster> graphics cbs? 15:47:43 <Alberth> show some lines before 15:48:20 <nekomaster> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzr4ll2pulsjhzx/RAILBUS_DIESEL_NG_DOODLEBUG%20-%20Copy.txt?dl=0 15:48:26 <nekomaster> can just check my code there 15:50:07 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:50:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:50:22 <Alberth> to close "Engine-mail" thingie? 15:50:30 <Alberth> +} 15:52:28 <andythenorth> nekomaster: unclosed spriteset 15:52:33 <nekomaster> yeah 15:52:36 <nekomaster> didnt see that 15:53:05 <andythenorth> we need a more helpful linter in nml :P 15:53:36 <andythenorth> although linters sometimes mean you now have 2 problems 15:53:44 <nekomaster> hmm? 15:53:48 <nekomaster> whats a linter? 15:53:57 <andythenorth> checks code syntax 15:54:01 <nekomaster> ahh 15:54:02 <andythenorth> finds missing brackets etc 15:54:10 <andythenorth> sometimes they are unhelpfully strict 15:54:25 <andythenorth> or they aren’t updated 15:55:03 <nekomaster> so when I refit to mail with my code it shows part of the ? icon thingy 15:55:09 <nekomaster> as if theres nothing or its corrupted 15:55:18 <andythenorth> frosch123: useful, or just colour vomit? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html 15:55:30 <nekomaster> ok never mind 15:55:43 <nekomaster> must have tried reloading the grf before the compiler was finished 15:56:01 <andythenorth> that will occasionally crash openttd ;) 15:56:05 <nekomaster> yeah 15:56:10 <nekomaster> in my case it didnt crash 15:56:21 <nekomaster> just froze for a moment and then showed a corrupted sprite 15:56:26 <nekomaster> I reloaded my GRF's and it works 15:59:19 <nekomaster> So now I have a narrow gauge doodle bug :) 15:59:27 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:00:06 <nekomaster> also why does the compiler/game not sort things as I've sorted it, like my doodle bug is in the wrong spot in the steam engines section in the list 16:00:14 <nekomaster> its not listening to me! 16:12:26 <nekomaster> :| 16:13:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's useful for figuring out whether the colors are unique 16:14:31 <frosch123> but i never use the cargo charts, so i would not care about the colors anyway :) 16:15:27 <frosch123> steel town has many duplicate colors 16:15:38 <frosch123> hardly green 16:16:48 <nekomaster> So, any idea how to force the sorting set up I have? 16:17:05 <nekomaster> its kind of annoying things get out of order for no good reason 16:26:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: steeltown is a victim of copy-paste for the python cargo files currently :) 16:26:43 <andythenorth> nekomaster: you just need to force the sort order 16:26:49 <nekomaster> I dunno how 16:26:54 <nekomaster> i have a vehicle sort 16:27:00 <nekomaster> but the game isn't using it 16:27:17 <andythenorth> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [id, id, id]) 16:27:18 <andythenorth> or so 16:27:23 <andythenorth> at the top of your nml 16:27:27 <andythenorth> or near the top anywya 16:27:31 <nekomaster> which nml? 16:27:44 <nekomaster> and what do you do with the id? 16:27:49 <andythenorth> usually after the grf {} block 16:28:21 <nekomaster> in the header.pnml? 16:28:25 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plqkzyzqp#line-52 16:28:39 <andythenorth> example from Iron Horse 16:40:25 <nekomaster> this is going to be tedious 16:44:16 <andythenorth> templating :P 16:44:32 <nekomaster> I dont think you can template the id 16:44:37 <nekomaster> not the sorting thing 16:44:40 <andythenorth> I do :) 16:44:54 <andythenorth> unfortunately there’s a big gap between ‘coding using nml' 16:44:58 <andythenorth> and ‘templating your entire set' 16:44:59 <andythenorth> :P 16:45:22 <nekomaster> unless you have a way to automatically put all the ID's in, that'll have to be done by hand 16:45:22 <andythenorth> smaller colour vomit http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html 16:45:49 <andythenorth> you’re right, it does have to be manual 16:45:59 <andythenorth> even in Iron Horse, I set the buy menu order manually 16:47:08 <andythenorth> you might be able to use the text IDs, not the numeric ones 16:47:09 <andythenorth> not sure 16:47:11 <andythenorth> haven’t tried :) 16:47:41 <nekomaster> you mean like ITEM_STEAM_NG_280_CONSOLIDATION ? 16:47:47 <Alberth> sort on stats? 16:48:00 <andythenorth> supermop_home: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html versus http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/v6360-1743/docs/html/economies.html 16:48:10 <andythenorth> colour chips - intrusive vomit, or a nice touch? 16:48:20 <andythenorth> and if the cargo colours are there, should I also do the map colour? 16:48:27 <andythenorth> (for industries) 16:49:02 <supermop_home> don't mind the colors 16:49:31 <supermop_home> map color maybe - I never remember what they are 16:50:22 <andythenorth> do the colours make the list harder to read? 16:50:28 <andythenorth> or is it already quite hard anyway? 16:51:10 <supermop_home> frosch123 it still doesn't recognize 'ROADVEH_FLAG_SPRITESTACK' 16:51:22 <andythenorth> what if I lined them up in a table? 16:51:23 <andythenorth> hmm 16:54:43 <frosch123> supermop_home: it has an underscore SPRITE_STACK 16:55:04 <supermop_home> :( 16:55:06 <supermop_home> oops 16:57:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: the problem is the sorting 16:57:31 <frosch123> the list is alphabetical 16:57:42 <frosch123> but what is the point of looking up a color? 16:57:53 <andythenorth> In economies page? None 16:58:03 <andythenorth> I was thinking to use a table to make them follow a grid 16:58:05 <frosch123> you could plot them in a HUE disc possibly, to tell the distance 16:58:11 <frosch123> but otherwise there is no point in the colors 16:58:37 <frosch123> it there any schema in the colors, or are they just random? 16:58:53 <andythenorth> derived from original TTD 16:58:58 <andythenorth> then ‘looks like the cargo' 16:59:01 <andythenorth> then ‘fill the gaps' 16:59:26 <andythenorth> I am 50% this page is a case of ‘just because you can doesn’t mean you should’ 16:59:32 <andythenorth> i.e. colours are just noise 16:59:40 <frosch123> probably 16:59:58 <frosch123> colors have a purpose in yeti iirc 17:00:04 <frosch123> since they reflect the cargo chains 17:00:11 <frosch123> but that does not work in firs 17:00:14 <andythenorth> yeah, this implies something of that sort 17:00:19 <andythenorth> but it’s not reality 17:01:23 * andythenorth removes it 17:13:00 <andythenorth> coloured bars? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html 17:13:01 <andythenorth> bad? 17:13:40 <andythenorth> also I should probably make all cargo colours unique, globally 17:18:10 <andythenorth> eh, what I should do is use the cargo icons 17:18:16 <andythenorth> in the html docs 17:22:39 * andythenorth removes the coloured bars :P 17:26:38 <supermop_home> apparently 3000 hp is too much? 17:26:56 <supermop_home> I got an error - action 0 property too large 17:38:56 <nekomaster> wtf? 17:38:57 <nekomaster> no 17:39:04 <nekomaster> 65535 HP is the largest you can go 17:39:13 <nekomaster> at least for a rail vehicle 17:43:37 <andythenorth> depends if you are setting the unit or not, iiirc 17:43:46 <andythenorth> there’s a few places where you might have to divide 17:43:50 * andythenorth would have to check 17:45:27 <frosch123> maximum power for rv via property is 2550 hp 17:45:44 <frosch123> perhaps you can get more by putting it into the graphics section 17:46:02 <nekomaster> also the vehicle sorting still isn't working 17:51:03 <andythenorth> turn it off and on again? o_O 17:51:40 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:51:50 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 17:52:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 17:54:17 <Snail> yo andythenorth 17:54:21 <andythenorth> hi 17:56:30 <Snail> I’m looking at your new cargoes (again) 17:56:41 <Snail> BEANs… what kind of beans did you have in mind? 17:56:51 <Snail> red beans? green beans?… :p 18:00:36 <andythenorth> ha 18:00:39 <andythenorth> I had that question 18:00:40 <Snail> I need to find a way to make them look good in my wagons 18:01:05 <andythenorth> I added some hint text last week ;) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html#beans 18:02:39 <andythenorth> feedback is welcome on the hint text, it’s hard to do well 18:03:18 <andythenorth> vehicle authors can / should do what they want, this is just guidance :) 18:04:37 <Snail> ok… only tropic though? 18:05:04 <andythenorth> only tropic basic currently 18:05:09 <andythenorth> who knows what 2018 might bring :) 18:05:43 <Snail> haha 18:05:54 <Snail> ok, so I’ll add support for that 18:06:04 <Snail> I might add 2 subtypes (fava beans, haricots verts) 18:07:23 <andythenorth> nice touch 18:07:34 <andythenorth> I researched a bit, there are a _lot_ of beans :P 18:18:51 <Snail> does anyone know what track labels the Japanese trackset uses? 18:18:54 <Snail> and Termite? 18:21:10 <frosch123> the japanese ones are on the wiki 18:29:25 <Snail> can’t find them on either http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jptrains or http://www.as-st.com/ttd/japan/index.html 18:29:46 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels 18:30:35 <Snail> thanks frosch123 19:02:06 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 19:20:50 <andythenorth> the Termite labels can be found by digging through the code http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/termite/repository/show/src 19:20:57 <andythenorth> sorry, no convenient docs for them :P 19:21:38 <andythenorth> I am 99% certain it only reuses existing labels 19:22:52 <Snail> andythenorth: can you remember which ones? 19:23:01 <frosch123> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/termite/push/LATEST/termite.nml <- ctrl+f for "label" there 19:23:01 <Snail> NGRL and ELRL… or NAAN, NAAE etc? 19:23:31 <frosch123> SAA3, NAAN, NAAE 19:23:34 <frosch123> only 3 19:23:51 <Snail> right 19:23:57 <Snail> so it should be compatible with my set 19:23:58 <andythenorth> I have no idea what it all means :) 19:24:03 <frosch123> there are a ton of "compatible" labels though 19:48:48 <Snail> andythenorth: other question 19:48:52 <andythenorth> yup 19:49:18 <Snail> you classified JAVA as Piece Goods 19:49:33 <Snail> so no raw coffee beans in open wagons? (covered by tarps) 19:49:53 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 19:50:19 <andythenorth> depends on how you’re treating open wagons :) 19:50:39 <andythenorth> in my sets, open wagons are universal, refit everything except pax and mail 19:51:03 <andythenorth> but for the short answer, real-life coffee beans travel in sacks, so piece 19:51:45 <nekomaster> Gondolas and open wagons can be used for bulk and piece goods 19:51:53 <nekomaster> depends on what and how much you put in 19:52:19 <nekomaster> I imagine that you can easily put crates, wood chips, logs, steel coils, coal chunks/powder, etc 19:53:27 <nekomaster> @Snail, if your talking about Narrow gauge stuff, NuTracks and Termite both work for Narrow Gauge with the NGRL and ELNG labels 19:53:35 <andythenorth> it’s a vehicle set renaissance right now, eh? 19:53:36 <andythenorth> :) 19:53:52 <nekomaster> I use NGRL for the narrow gauge trains in NARS Add-on Set 2cc 19:54:04 <nekomaster> I wonder if there are any electric narrow gauge stuff in North america 19:54:15 <nekomaster> Industrial, Subway, metro, tourist line, logging, etc 19:54:20 <Snail> nekomaster: I think NuTracks works with the “NAAN” etc. scheme 19:54:27 <nekomaster> it still works with NGRL 19:54:32 <Snail> so it works with both? 19:54:34 <nekomaster> yup 19:55:03 <nekomaster> Just have to force Nutracks to load Narrow Gauge and High Speed Narrow Gauge because its detection seems to be a bit off, but NG Stuff will appear where it should 19:55:17 <Snail> yes, NuTracks is compatible with my set 19:55:24 <Snail> the problem was the Japanese set 19:55:30 <Snail> and I haven’t tried Termite yet 19:55:45 <andythenorth> I am going to fold Termite into Iron Horse at some point 19:55:52 <Snail> only issue with NuTracks is 3rd-rail NG vehicles 19:55:57 <andythenorth> I can’t be arsed with separate railtype and train grf 19:55:58 <Snail> coz I don’t think it supports NAA3 19:56:00 <nekomaster> Yeah 19:56:09 * andythenorth will have to pay the fine 19:56:20 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:56:51 <nekomaster> I kind of prefer to have the ability to load my own rail type grf or have the train set with parameters to disable its own railtypes if I so wish 19:57:29 <andythenorth> I will include a parameter 19:57:42 <andythenorth> but if you disable it, you’ll miss trains 19:57:45 * andythenorth [shrug] 19:57:49 <Snail> nekomaster: I agree, but the problem arises when a trackset uses labels that are not compatible with a trainset 19:58:08 <nekomaster> Well thats why people should maybe use existing lables 19:58:14 <Snail> for example I can’t use the Japanese tracks with French trains, because the former adopt the NGRL way 19:58:20 <Snail> yep 19:58:23 <nekomaster> or a proper table should be made like how theres one for the cargos 19:58:53 <Snail> there is one but it’s incomplete —> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels 20:02:20 <andythenorth> and what’s out there is already out there :P 20:02:29 <nekomaster> yeah 20:02:44 <nekomaster> I just hope thigns dont get too tcrazy with RATT's 20:02:57 <nekomaster> last thing we need is 100 lables for HIGHWAY 20:02:59 <nekomaster> HGWY 20:03:03 <nekomaster> HIWY 20:03:12 <nekomaster> HWAY 20:03:41 <supermop_home> add a motorway 20:03:48 <Snail> problem is, everyone wants to make their own standards :D 20:03:51 <supermop_home> incompatible with highway 20:04:13 <supermop_home> I thought about adding bus guideway 20:04:13 <nekomaster> I imagine that there should be some standardisation 20:04:25 <supermop_home> in real life I hate BRT though 20:04:32 <supermop_home> I also hate buses 20:04:42 <supermop_home> but here I am week after week making a bus set 20:05:09 <nekomaster> If I where going to do a road type set, id probably use these 20:05:09 <nekomaster> GRVL, STON, ASPH, INTR, HWAY, AUTO 20:05:26 <supermop_home> you need ROAD 20:05:29 <nekomaster> oh yeah 20:05:35 <supermop_home> else towns wont have anything 20:06:15 <nekomaster> Would it be possible to set what road type towns spawn with? 20:06:25 <supermop_home> not yet 20:06:30 <nekomaster> because in starting in 1980 in north america feels weird having stone pavement 20:06:32 <supermop_home> wolf was working on that 20:06:34 <nekomaster> Ahh 20:06:38 <nekomaster> Hmm 20:06:51 <nekomaster> What about just switching around some code for what is ROAD 20:07:12 <nekomaster> like it can be changed to act like stone paved roads or asphalt/city roads 20:07:36 <nekomaster> either way 20:07:50 <nekomaster> If someone like me doesnt like it I can always just rebuild the roads 20:08:44 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 20:08:48 <Wolf01> o/ 20:08:57 <nekomaster> ey, speak of the devil 20:09:23 <Wolf01> I'm back from a 2 days lego meeting 20:09:24 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 20:09:32 <nekomaster> heh 20:09:36 <Wolf01> Back with more lego too 20:09:38 <Wolf01> XD 20:09:39 <nekomaster> Nice 20:09:45 <Wolf01> Purchased the Saturn V 20:09:47 <nekomaster> hey, got any train lego stuff? 20:09:48 <nekomaster> ooh 20:10:01 <nekomaster> I wonder if someone could actually make a functional rocket with lego 20:10:15 <Wolf01> Trains are too expensive both money and space wise 20:10:30 <Wolf01> But there were a lot of trains 20:10:45 <supermop_home> "i bought a Saturn V because a train was too expensive" 20:11:12 <Wolf01> XD 20:11:40 <supermop_home> nekomaster: in unspooled ROAD is stone paved with like a 60kmh speedlimit 20:11:45 <nekomaster> yeah 20:11:47 <nekomaster> I konw 20:11:50 <nekomaster> I have tried it 20:11:58 <supermop_home> you make make road whatever you want 20:12:01 <nekomaster> I wish I coudl have RATT and JGR or Spring Patch pack 20:12:12 <supermop_home> just so long as ROAD is in game somehow 20:12:15 <nekomaster> but not like RATT is even in the stables or nightlies yet 20:12:37 <supermop_home> you could even make ROAD a chairlift that no vehicles can drive on 20:12:44 <nekomaster> heh 20:12:53 <nekomaster> hmm 20:13:08 <nekomaster> what stupid things could we do with RATT? 20:13:22 <nekomaster> A super road? Designed for super high speed vehicles 20:13:58 <supermop_home> well I actually am planning on doing chairlifts, gondola etc, but the catenary code isn't quite flexible enough 20:13:59 <Wolf01> <nekomaster> what stupid things could we do with RATT? <- the same stupid things one can already do with railtypes 20:14:04 <nekomaster> lol 20:14:13 <supermop_home> you can't draw poles in center of tile 20:14:31 <Wolf01> We should address that 20:14:33 *** roidal has quit IRC 20:14:36 <nekomaster> Can't even force offsets or move the sprite? 20:15:00 <supermop_home> you can have 'rear' poles that RVs are drawn over 20:15:09 <andythenorth> center catenary might not be a bad move 20:15:15 <andythenorth> but what about in cross-roads? 20:15:18 <supermop_home> and 'front' poles that draw over RVs 20:15:29 <nekomaster> Cross roads might have to have no pole in the middle 20:15:46 <supermop_home> but not yet a center pole that has some more sophisticated draw order 20:16:27 <supermop_home> when i think foobar was first drawing tramtracks a long time ago he wanted center poles, but couldn't make it work 20:16:31 <andythenorth> Wolf01: can do that 20:16:46 <andythenorth> just need to move the pole behind the first layer of vehicles 20:16:55 <andythenorth> ‘easy’ :P 20:17:09 <supermop_home> nekomaster: the center poles would likely be at the center of tile edge in most cases 20:17:13 <nekomaster> but what about the other direction 20:17:46 <nekomaster> stuff behind the poles 20:17:51 <supermop_home> you can also draw junction catenary to not have any poles 20:18:42 <supermop_home> another thing road catenary misses - you can't have the poles spaced out every 2-3 tiles like on train tracks 20:19:06 <nekomaster> hmm 20:19:18 <nekomaster> would it be possible to have a road type with a grass median? 20:19:23 <nekomaster> a small one that is 20:19:35 <andythenorth> it could be drawn on 20:19:40 <andythenorth> as long as it has no z-height 20:20:00 <andythenorth> or leave a gap, and let ground tile show 20:20:08 <nekomaster> Hmm, too bad we couldn't have some benifit to haveing certain types of road 20:20:30 <nekomaster> like how in Cities skylines, tree lined or grass lined roads reduce noise and polution and makes people happier 20:22:10 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:27:54 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:29:01 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:36:25 <supermop_home> andythenorth: if you can have a center catenary pylon, you can draw a tall median or hedge as a pylon 20:36:53 <supermop_home> ok finally got this to compile 20:41:45 <andythenorth> fixed all cargo colours :) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html 20:42:05 <supermop_home> my test tram thinks its a trolley bus 20:42:11 <andythenorth> (sort the table by colour for nice effect) 20:42:12 <nekomaster> lol 20:43:19 <supermop_home> odd 20:43:35 <supermop_home> I put road_type: my mistake 20:43:46 <supermop_home> but I set the type as ELRL 20:44:04 <supermop_home> yet it knows to run on ELRD compatible roads only 20:44:20 <supermop_home> nothing that says ELRL = ELRD in my code 20:44:33 <nekomaster> @andythenorth yeah, that sorting thing isn't working 20:44:36 <supermop_home> I wonder if this could be useful 20:44:44 <nekomaster> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plqkzyzqp#line-52 20:44:57 <nekomaster> things still aren't listening to me 20:45:14 <andythenorth> nekomaster: paste your code 20:45:36 <nekomaster> https://www.dropbox.com/s/borz3sz0gt87ihg/header.pnml?dl=0 20:46:08 <andythenorth> nekomaster: does it compile ok? 20:46:13 <nekomaster> yes 20:46:21 <nekomaster> it compiles with no warnings 20:46:37 <andythenorth> your IDs are all in numerical order 20:46:51 <andythenorth> that will give you same order as without the sort property ;) 20:46:52 <nekomaster> yes, but things aren't staying in that order 20:47:08 <nekomaster> I want things to be in numerical order and things are not 20:47:20 <andythenorth> what’s your buy menu sort set to? 20:47:22 <nekomaster> my narrow gauge passenger cars are all the way at the bottom of the freight wagon section 20:47:26 <nekomaster> Classic sort 20:47:58 <supermop_home> ugh too many trucks 20:48:49 <andythenorth> hmm 20:48:52 <supermop_home> 8 types of truck body * 5 generations of trucks * 2 styles of truck (rigid and semi) 20:49:11 <nekomaster> I have it set up in a certain way and somethings end up getting shoved to the bottom 20:49:27 <supermop_home> wish could just assemble cab + trailer like a train 20:49:27 <andythenorth> do all the vehicles have numeric IDs set? 20:49:32 <nekomaster> yes 20:49:45 <andythenorth> supermop_home: nah, I started a patch for that, but it’s bad 20:49:50 <andythenorth> nekomaster: I am stumped tbh :P 20:49:58 <andythenorth> there will be a reason, but can’t see it 20:50:05 <supermop_home> then I could have 1-2 tractors per generation rather than 8 20:50:13 <nekomaster> I could just link you to my project folder so you can look over the major files 20:50:28 <andythenorth> supermop_home don’t worry about the tractors, it’s 8 body styles 20:50:28 <nekomaster> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mfrv5nwjnq1qmin/AAAnsH1kZv6wrzbBjuneaL0_a?dl=0 20:50:39 <andythenorth> you actually have fewer vehicles this way 20:50:53 <andythenorth> nekomaster: I would look, but bedtime here 20:50:58 <nekomaster> ahh 20:51:08 <nekomaster> i mean its not a game breaking thing but I want things to look clean 20:51:28 <nekomaster> this code eventually might be used to make a new NARS set of my own 20:52:25 <supermop_home> oops my 4th gen dual mode tanker semi forgot to allow a trailer to attach 20:52:51 <supermop_home> for an impressive capacity of 0L of chemicals 20:53:07 <supermop_home> maybe the driver can carry a jug in the cab 20:53:23 <andythenorth> gas :P 20:53:24 <Snail> andythenorth: how would you suggest to color “coke”? 20:53:24 <supermop_home> andythenorth before you go 20:53:27 <Snail> same as coal? 20:53:33 <andythenorth> Snail: like coal pretty much 20:53:57 <supermop_home> delivering vehicles: on flatbeds or a tractor pulling 3 tractors like they do here 20:54:10 <supermop_home> Snail I use same color as coal 20:54:15 <andythenorth> seems I just reused coal for coke in CHIPS 20:54:29 <andythenorth> supermop_home: dunno, vehicles is stupid 20:54:30 <supermop_home> yep 20:54:41 <andythenorth> vehicles are in daft units 20:54:52 <supermop_home> not uncommon to see trucks delivered that way here 20:55:21 <andythenorth> “Production: 8 vehicles” 20:55:42 <andythenorth> but the capacity of wagons is still 30 vehicles 20:55:52 <andythenorth> there’s no adjustment for unit size 20:56:03 <supermop_home> make it not piece goods 20:56:07 <andythenorth> vehicles should be just weighted in tonnes 20:56:19 <andythenorth> measured / weighted /s 20:56:28 <supermop_home> pourable bulk cars 20:56:49 <supermop_home> i'll take 40,000 liters of fiat punto please 20:57:00 <Wolf01> XD 20:57:05 <andythenorth> ‘x tonnes of vehicles’ looks stupid at the factory 20:57:17 <andythenorth> but the alternative is a PITA for vehicle grfs 20:57:41 <supermop_home> screw em 20:58:16 <supermop_home> ugh I start random games to test each compile of grf 20:58:36 <supermop_home> and think "ok need to check that the sprite stack works on that box truck" 20:58:37 <Wolf01> I think I'll throw myself on the bed 20:58:49 <nekomaster> unless theres something major, I just make a TEST SAVE that i keep reloading the GRF's in 20:58:59 <supermop_home> then spend 10 minutes trying to decide the nicest looking goods route to built to test it 20:59:04 <nekomaster> but I will make a new game if I think that something might be going on 20:59:42 <nekomaster> I pretty much just make two loops where one is flat land and the other goes up a steep mountain to test the traction and power 20:59:43 <andythenorth> ‘crates of vehicles’? :P 20:59:48 <supermop_home> then I identify the problems but by then I want to keep playing instead of fixing them and re-compiling 20:59:53 <nekomaster> Bags of vehicles? 20:59:59 <supermop_home> andythenorth: if the crate is big enough 21:00:08 <nekomaster> Perhaps 40 Units of Vehicles would be better? 21:00:35 <andythenorth> nice idea 21:00:45 <andythenorth> but I think units is too nothing 21:00:53 * andythenorth tries tonnes 21:00:57 <Wolf01> I can't understand why I'm looking at this from the pow of the starcraft dropship 21:01:04 <nekomaster> Thats how they package things sometimes 21:01:15 <nekomaster> Like for example, I'll see that a box has 7 units of bleach 21:01:19 <nekomaster> 7 jugs 21:02:59 <Wolf01> Like on elevators, you have "max 750kg", sometimes "max 750kg / 9 people" 21:03:06 <andythenorth> 21 axles of vehicles 21:03:22 <andythenorth> that’s how railroad vehicles are measured sometimes :P 21:03:30 <nekomaster> 9001 bushels of vehicles 21:03:45 <Wolf01> Measure vehicles in components 21:04:13 <nekomaster> then again, tonnes of vehicles kind of works for stuff because most cars are around or over 1 tonne 21:04:22 <nekomaster> like a 1780 kg muscle car 21:04:30 <nekomaster> or a 960 kg Lotus 21:05:30 <andythenorth> 300hp of vehicles 21:05:55 <nekomaster> 300 cubic meters of vehicles 21:06:24 <andythenorth> nice idea 21:06:32 <supermop_home> hmm nope, the dual mode trucks pantographs don't switch to lowered when on non-electric road 21:06:33 <nekomaster> like they're a gas 21:07:33 <andythenorth> bed 21:07:34 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:15:51 *** nekomaster1 has joined #openttd 21:19:20 *** nekomaster2 has joined #openttd 21:19:57 *** nekomaster has quit IRC 21:20:56 <nekomaster2> my internet suddenly decided to be crap 21:23:52 *** nekomaster1 has quit IRC 21:24:31 <supermop_home> wait huh the switch does work for the panto 21:24:39 <supermop_home> but not for the sparks 21:24:57 <supermop_home> it's still emitting diesel smoke under wires 21:32:22 <Wolf01> Maybe the type is cached in game 21:34:27 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:38:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:39:07 *** nekomaster has joined #openttd 21:41:24 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1666 21:41:25 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:41:46 *** nekomaster1 has joined #openttd 21:41:52 *** nekomaster2 has quit IRC 21:45:57 *** Guest1666 has quit IRC 21:46:44 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:47:12 *** nekomaster has quit IRC 21:54:57 <FLHerne> It works for UKRS2's cl73 21:55:10 <FLHerne> (on rail) 21:55:15 <supermop_home> hmm 21:55:51 <Wolf01> But RATT is experimental, it might not be fully supported 22:06:51 <supermop_home> now I need to figure out how to stack sprites in different orders depending on rotation 22:26:37 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:05:57 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:35:03 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:41:53 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 23:44:43 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 23:44:57 *** Gja has quit IRC