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00:06:40 *** supermop has quit IRC 00:13:23 *** supermop has joined #openttd 00:20:11 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:52:21 *** DDR has quit IRC 01:06:36 *** supermop has quit IRC 01:10:06 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:29:19 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:32:51 *** luxtram has quit IRC 01:33:31 *** luxtram has joined #openttd 01:35:48 *** supermop has quit IRC 01:36:55 *** Laedek has quit IRC 01:43:21 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:48:53 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 01:51:25 *** supermop has quit IRC 01:54:33 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:58:05 *** glx has quit IRC 02:01:22 *** DDR has joined #openttd 02:06:43 *** supermop has quit IRC 02:10:01 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:10:30 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 02:11:09 <SimYouLater> Anyone seen my post in the "What is OpenTTD today?" topic? I didn 02:11:14 <SimYouLater> >_<\ 02:11:34 <SimYouLater> I didn't see it the day after I posted and thought the topic was deleted. 02:12:13 <SimYouLater> So I only just came across it by accident in a search for an unrelated keyword. 02:13:01 <SimYouLater> Aside from having replied to practically every topic all at once, I'm not up to date on anything that may have happened here in IRC since. 02:13:08 <SimYouLater> Anyone? 02:13:28 *** pdoan has quit IRC 02:14:27 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 02:18:06 *** supermop has quit IRC 02:18:56 *** pdoan has quit IRC 02:19:55 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 02:22:18 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:29:36 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 02:36:43 *** supermop has quit IRC 02:40:30 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:40:30 <SimYouLater> Is anyone able to see my replies? Am I just not seeing yours? Can someone PM me if you see this? 02:47:53 <ST2> SimYouLater: I think many people read it - maybe some still thinking on it, or have some crazy ideas that devs won't go there 02:48:04 <ST2> I think I'm on that class 02:48:23 <ST2> but I read it all, not an opinion formed, yet 02:48:34 *** supermop has quit IRC 02:48:49 <SimYouLater> I see. Thanks for responding, I was starting to think I was having bugs with the IRC. 02:49:11 <ST2> "What is OpenTTD today" is very related to what was couple years ago and what direction to take 02:49:59 <ST2> SimYouLater, maybe you dnt know mw, but I'm admin on BTPro - and we have 27 OpenTTD servers 02:50:02 <SimYouLater> I should have been more direct in the OP. The part about what happened two years ago was all rhetorical. Hence the name of the topic. 02:51:45 <ST2> SimYouLater: you need to understand that OpenTTD won't have a boom of players or popularity 02:52:04 <SimYouLater> At a point in the OP I did say that anything about that wasn't the point. That it was more about things feeling surprisingly dead, much more like the linked site, than most places I frequent. 02:52:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:52:31 <ST2> we have some players that play, religiously, on every server 02:52:53 <ST2> but that's because they like our settings, goal servers, or whatever 02:53:06 <ST2> well, we try our best 02:53:42 <ST2> but, like me, that play now Settlers 2, OpenTTD is a mood thing 02:53:47 <SimYouLater> If there's no way that players will increase, I can live with that. It's more about the community having stalled, which fortunately is what everyone eventually ended up talking about in a roundabout way. 02:54:00 <Flygon> It's hard to have a boom of players when OpenTTD hit saturation point over a decade ago. :P 02:54:11 <SimYouLater> As it turns out, it's not the community that's stalled. 02:54:21 <Flygon> It just means there's a fucktonne of active players, and we hardly notice anymore, because there's not much more room to grow. :3 02:54:29 <ST2> we (BTPro) have a stable base of players 02:54:35 <ST2> now* 02:54:41 <SimYouLater> Just a communication issue with the part most important, the trunk development. 02:55:08 <ST2> ofc, many of the people playing it's because of testing online game or to see what this "game" 02:56:10 <ST2> the fact that's opensource, and everyone can create an online server - it's good and bad 02:56:16 <SimYouLater> Question unrelated to that. I've had trouble setting up a multiplayer game in any way, shape or form for use by myself and a friend. For whatever reason I can't get the server in public view. 02:56:17 <ST2> good: more choices 02:56:42 <ST2> bad: people join, play and get blocked or whatever and no admins 02:56:46 <SimYouLater> Sorry, hard to read while typing long replies. 02:57:35 <ST2> SimYouLater: same here, while making Viking won on the other screen xD 02:57:39 <SimYouLater> I get what you 02:57:44 <SimYouLater> '>_< 02:58:20 <ST2> SimYouLater: server on your computer or..?! 02:58:45 <ST2> maybe need to redirect ports on router or something 02:58:48 <SimYouLater> I get what you're saying about the open source and the community being fine. I can tell it's mostly some animosity between the majority and the devs which seems to have been talked about and resolved. 02:58:57 <SimYouLater> For the server... 02:59:19 <ST2> hint: use shorter sentences 02:59:30 <ST2> easier to read (faster, at least) 02:59:47 <SimYouLater> the idea is to have a dedicated server running off of my desktop. This would be accessed by myself, my friend and anyone we give the password to. 03:00:05 <SimYouLater> Ah. Sorter posts it is then. 03:00:14 <ST2> check openttd ports used 03:00:33 <ST2> and must be redirected to your computer on the Router 03:01:19 <ST2> redirected = forwarded 03:01:34 <ST2> depends on the lexic or router used ^^ 03:05:12 <SimYouLater> I'm having to relearn all the server setup... The last time I tried was months ago... 03:05:36 <ST2> join the club ^^ 03:05:46 <SimYouLater> I know there are two types of firewalls, firstly. 03:05:56 <ST2> my home "old" server is now on the storage 03:06:00 <SimYouLater> How can I tell if I have a software firewall? 03:06:14 <ST2> since we have 2 rented servers... no need to a home one 03:06:40 <ST2> [04:05:58] <SimYouLater> How can I tell if I have a software firewall? <<-- only you can know that :P 03:08:11 <ST2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zok9co_8E4 <<-- the ironic music xD 03:11:29 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 03:11:40 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 03:11:50 <SimYouLater> lost network connection. 03:11:55 <SimYouLater> Right. 03:12:13 <SimYouLater> So, likely programs I have and can think of... 03:12:22 <SimYouLater> ...for a firewall... 03:12:35 <SimYouLater> Avast, Malwarebytes, and Windows 10 itself. 03:12:58 <ST2> it's your computer ^^ 03:13:07 <ST2> manage it better :P 03:14:22 <SimYouLater> In what way? 03:15:06 *** supermop has quit IRC 03:15:14 <SimYouLater> Oh, and the internet loss wasn't the OS. I had to unplug it to try and change the IP address my computer already had assigned in the router. 03:15:27 <SimYouLater> Still working on getting that fixed. 03:16:31 <ST2> if it helps, try to use to DDNS services - your IP can change - but updates 03:16:57 <SimYouLater> Look, if you're going to say "manage my computer better" because you're exhasperated at something I may or may not have done, explain because I'm not clueless. 03:18:03 <ST2> by "manage my computer better" I mean't you must know what you have installed and what it does 03:18:04 <SimYouLater> Just checked Dynamic DNS in the router. It's off. 03:19:09 <SimYouLater> I know Avast can have a firewall. I know Malwarebytes might. I know Windows 10 can. I know I don't have anything else that would deal with firewalls except my router. 03:19:21 <ST2> something to read and test: https://www.noip.com/ 03:19:34 <ST2> 1st that came to my mind 03:20:31 <SimYouLater> Okay, now you're losing me. I've seen no-ip before, but... 03:20:55 <SimYouLater> Right now I'm going through these steps: https://wiki.openttd.org/Server 03:21:25 <ST2> anyway, if you provide your IP to your friends and not being seen - it's not passing by your router 03:21:28 <SimYouLater> Since the following only covers the dedicated part... https://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server 03:22:02 <ST2> remember to open ports 03:22:18 <ST2> 3979 and so on (talking by heart) 03:22:34 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 03:22:52 <SimYouLater> It's not with the IP address not being seen. I make it publicly viewable and it doesn't show up. While right now it's not set up, I had the port forwarding and everything ready, and had that issue. 03:23:28 *** pdoan has quit IRC 03:23:40 <ST2> so, any firewall SW preventing it? 03:24:01 <SimYouLater> That's why I'm having to set it up again. 03:24:30 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 03:26:28 <SimYouLater> Okay, well first I have one issue. One that's nrelated. My computer was connected to 192.168.1."A" in the DHCP reservation. However the label was as a different computer so I had to remove it because I couldn't change the name and re-add it... 03:26:59 <SimYouLater> After removing it, it says it can't add it because 192.168.1."A" is in use. 03:27:18 <ST2> https://www.whatismyip.com/ 03:27:23 <ST2> that's your IP 03:27:30 <SimYouLater> So I tried unlugging my internet to disconnect that. 03:27:50 <SimYouLater> After plugging the cord back into the rear of my tower, no change. 03:27:55 <ST2> 192.168.*.* 03:28:11 <ST2> it's always internal network addresses 03:28:32 <SimYouLater> So I assign the DHCP reservation under 192.168.1."B" and it still hasn't changed. 03:28:44 <SimYouLater> Oh. Let me check.. 03:28:44 <ST2> that's your choice 03:28:56 *** pdoan has quit IRC 03:29:25 <ST2> 192.168.*.* are internal network addresses 03:29:35 <SimYouLater> The computer is already using auto Ip.... let's try changing it... 03:29:38 <ST2> you can see that on router 03:29:58 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 03:30:20 <SimYouLater> Yeah. Router still says it's under 192.18.1."A" and even the name that was incorrect is still there. 03:30:42 <SimYouLater> The MAC Address is the same as this computer. 03:31:09 <SimYouLater> The computer it was named as is no longer connected to the network. Hasn't been for weeks. 03:31:13 <ST2> [04:27:16] <ST2> https://www.whatismyip.com/ <<-- 03:31:20 <ST2> what you get on there? 03:31:30 *** pdoan has quit IRC 03:32:01 <SimYouLater> For external IP? 2001:569:f8c4:b800:28a4:29e3:c478:1faa 03:32:30 <ST2> ok, the IP you need to open your Router to accept connections 03:32:46 <ST2> and forward to your internal network IP 03:32:48 <SimYouLater> First I want to get the DHCP reservation fixed. 03:33:16 <ST2> that may depend on on your ISP 03:33:32 <SimYouLater> i can't assign this PC as 192.168.1."A" even though it already had that IP, is still connected as it, but with the wrong name... 03:34:05 <SimYouLater> The name will get changed to match that of this computer, I know that. 03:34:08 <ST2> acceptable addresses are: 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254 03:34:26 <ST2> but maybe one is already used by your router 03:34:44 <ST2> see the range your router gives to network 03:34:54 <SimYouLater> It just won't let me "unpair" this PC from 192.168.1."A. so that I can repair it. 03:35:12 <ST2> stop saying 192.168.1."A" 03:35:18 <SimYouLater> It needs to have 192.168.1."B" temporarily... 03:35:26 <ST2> it's from 1 ro 254 03:35:27 <SimYouLater> Fine. 03:35:32 <ST2> to* 03:35:50 <SimYouLater> 192.168.1.10 is taken up by this PC. I need it as any other IP for a few seconds. 03:36:05 <SimYouLater> Then back to 192.168.1.10 03:36:11 <ST2> so... what's the Router network IP? 03:36:26 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 03:36:35 <ST2> and, if it's a router, what's the IP's he allows on the network? 03:36:37 <SimYouLater> Hold on. Said he wrong hing. 03:36:50 <ST2> 2 questions above 03:36:54 <SimYouLater> 192.168.1.10 is taken up by this PC. I need it as any other IP for a few seconds... 03:36:58 <ST2> 2 questions above 03:37:21 <SimYouLater> because it won't let me give DHCP reservation to 192.168.1.10 because it's in use. 03:37:36 <ST2> I made 2 questions 03:37:48 <ST2> no answers... I can't help you :S 03:38:11 <SimYouLater> I don't know the right words, butI need to "unpair" this PC from 192.168.1.10 and even though I've unplugged it temporarily... 03:38:26 <SimYouLater> The IP still persists. 03:38:33 <ST2> SimYouLater, read above, please 03:38:36 <Sylf> Sim, I think you really need to answer those 2 questions 03:38:55 <SimYouLater> The router network IP is 192.18.1.254 03:39:13 *** supermop has joined #openttd 03:39:27 <ST2> ok, and, somewhere on Router SW it says the range allowed for the network 03:39:59 <ST2> probably above *.*.*.10 03:40:10 <ST2> but that, only you can see ^^ 03:40:13 <SimYouLater> 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.253 03:40:34 <ST2> ok, so 03:40:50 <ST2> what's your computer, now, internal IP? 03:41:14 <SimYouLater> It's still 192.168.1.10 03:41:36 <ST2> ok, so, forward the OpenTTD ports to that address 03:41:49 <SimYouLater> Which I have to change temporarily to re-add it as 192.168.1.10 in DHCP reservation. 03:41:55 <ST2> 3979 (TCP/UDP) 03:42:04 <ST2> and read more 03:42:13 <ST2> I'm talking by heart :) 03:43:16 <SimYouLater> Right now I'm asking for help with the DHCP reservation. I'll get to the ports after. 03:43:48 <Sylf> why do you need the reservation? 03:43:53 <ST2> I had no issues with W10, W7 and Debian linux - it's all on redirecting ports on router 03:44:10 <Sylf> can you reconfigure DHCP range from *.1.30 to *.1.200 or something 03:44:19 <Sylf> then configure the server to a fixed IP? 03:44:28 <Sylf> boom, all is done. 03:44:48 <Sylf> then once you have a fixed IP configured, forward the port to that IP, and you have a working server. 03:44:48 <SimYouLater> Because that's how I have static IPs. Or I could do it within the computer itself if that's a better way. But right now I need to ensure it will keep 192.1681.10 if it turns off for a while. 03:44:53 <ST2> I even suggested a DDNS - solves many things xD 03:45:26 <ST2> with a DDNS, the rest is internal Router settings 03:45:39 <SimYouLater> I'd rather fix the setup I had. If it doesn't work, then I'll look into DDNS. 03:46:02 <Sylf> DDNS is outside of the lan, isn't it? 03:46:10 <ST2> yeah 03:46:20 <ST2> but because I have Din IP 03:46:21 <Sylf> so it has nothing to do with lan DHCP issues 03:46:45 <SimYouLater> Am I using the wrong sense of "DDNS"? The setting in my router that most closely matches... 03:46:50 <ST2> if issues on lan, DDNS won't help, that's a sur ^^ 03:46:52 <SimYouLater> is Dynamic DNS. 03:47:19 <Sylf> DDNS makes it easier for players to find your external IP 03:47:39 <Sylf> Nothing to do with the issue with fixing the server to 192.168.1.10 03:47:54 <Sylf> so let's leave DDNS out of the discussion for now 03:48:05 <SimYouLater> Alright. 03:48:36 <Sylf> I don't know how your router does DHCP... with mine, I can assign a specific MAC address to a specific IP. 03:48:47 <ST2> Sylf: and I'm listening the right music now ^^ 03:48:50 * ST2 »» Music: (Playing) «» Nirvana - You Know You're Right (XI Rock - Modern and Alternative Rock) «» 208:43/00:00 «« 03:48:56 <SimYouLater> Same here. The issue is... 03:49:28 <Sylf> *listening* 03:49:32 <SimYouLater> 1. My router had the DHCP reservation under the name of my old phone. 03:49:43 <SimYouLater> 2. I couldn't rename it. 03:49:56 <SimYouLater> 3. To change that, I had to re-add my PC. 03:50:23 <Sylf> What name? 03:50:35 <SimYouLater> 4. After removing it, my router won't accept the mac address of my pc under 192.168.1.10 because its "already in use". 03:50:41 <Sylf> Name has nothing to do with port forwarding 03:50:51 <SimYouLater> some random string of numbers and letters. 03:50:58 <SimYouLater> Android does that. 03:51:17 <Sylf> What IP are you trying to use for the server? 03:51:41 <SimYouLater> 192.168.1.10 internal.The external is the IPv6 above... 03:51:58 <ST2> I'm connected with 2 Android phones on my network... and never saw it ^^ 03:52:26 <ST2> check your PC - has a fixes network IP od dynamic? 03:52:29 <Sylf> And what IP is reserved on the router, to which MAC? 03:52:33 <ST2> fixed* 03:52:53 <SimYouLater> About android thing: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/iIlq463rl6w 03:53:11 <Sylf> I really don't care about names. 03:53:27 <SimYouLater> > I'm connected with 2 Android phones on my network... and never saw it ^^ 03:53:37 <SimYouLater> I was answering ST2 03:54:06 <ST2> for the Router... shouldn't matter the device connecting 03:54:27 <SimYouLater> PC says "Obtain an IP address automatically" 03:54:48 <ST2> and it's now? 03:54:53 <Sylf> what IP is reserved on the router, to which MAC? 03:55:03 <ST2> (betting it works because you're still here ^^) 03:55:52 <SimYouLater> 192.168.1.10 is reserved to nothing. It's still connected to my PC: 4C-CC-6A-0A-B9-F2 03:56:21 <ST2> ok, forward port 3979 to that addresses 03:56:23 <Sylf> Also, do you really need to use 192.168.1.10? Can you be happy with 192.168.1.20? If yes, reserve that IP to MAC 4C-CC-6A-0A-B9-F2 03:56:51 <Sylf> Or, do that once, renew the DHCP lease, then you should have 192.168.1.20 for your PC. 03:57:09 <SimYouLater> I already reserved it tgo 192.168.1.2 to try and change it even if only temporarily. It still says... Connected 192.168.1.10 Full-Duplex 03:57:19 <ST2> Sylf know my feeling - I always likje to wake up on odd numbers so, instead of 6:30 I make 11:32 03:57:21 <Sylf> If you really want to, you can change the IP reservation setting back to use 192.168.1.10 when you're using 192.168.1.20 03:57:30 <ST2> and I wake up much better xD 03:58:19 <SimYouLater> @Sylf I know. It's not at ...1.20 in the reservation but it is at ...1.2 03:58:20 <Sylf> Have you disconnected and reconnected after you made the change? 03:58:38 <SimYouLater> brb then. 03:59:52 <ST2> well, a brb, wnd not disconnecting 03:59:58 *** SimYouLater_ has joined #openttd 04:00:00 <ST2> and* 04:00:03 <Sylf> there's the disconnect 04:00:04 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 04:00:20 <SimYouLater_> Now it's changed to ...1.2 04:00:52 <SimYouLater_> brb then since that's fauirly easy to fix in the preferred way now that I know how. 04:00:53 <Sylf> so, it's the classic case of IT crowd 04:01:01 <Sylf> "Have you turned it off and on again?" 04:01:08 <ST2> hehe 04:01:40 <ST2> fact is that on Linux isn't needed 04:02:02 <ST2> but, as W10 user... I support it := 04:02:08 <ST2> :) 04:02:10 <Sylf> you still need to redo the connection... you can't renew the IP without disconnect 04:03:01 <SimYouLater_> Strange, the name is still the random string, and another Windows 10 PC as well as this one at some point in the past aren't doing that but showing the computer's system name 04:04:02 <SimYouLater_> Which is hy I haven't disconnected again yet. 04:04:19 <ST2> [04:59:56] *** SimYouLater_ (~oftc-webi@node-1w7jr9ujw3ln1vkwmtu8odsqu.ipv6.telus.net) joined 04:04:19 <ST2> [04:59:58] <ST2> and* 04:04:19 <ST2> [05:00:01] <Sylf> there's the disconnect 04:04:19 <ST2> [05:00:03] *** SimYouLater quit (Remote host closed the connection) 04:04:36 *** SimYouLater_ has quit IRC 04:04:37 <ST2> thank you Sylf for helping :) 04:04:43 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 04:04:58 <SimYouLater> I don't know what happened, but I didn't unplug yet. 04:05:12 <SimYouLater> and internet was up the whole time. 04:05:24 <SimYouLater> IRC just dropped me for some reason. 04:05:44 <ST2> you changed settings... normally that happens ^^ 04:05:53 <ST2> dnt be scared ;) 04:06:15 <SimYouLater> Except I haven't changed settings in the router since I last reconnected 04:06:27 <SimYouLater> The DHCP is still in 192.168.1.2 04:06:32 <ST2> changed on PC? 04:06:40 <SimYouLater> Not there either. 04:07:19 <ST2> ok, let me write a letter to pope Francis for another miracle xD 04:07:37 <SimYouLater> Seriosuly, no changes to my router's or pc's settings despite saying I would. 04:07:46 <SimYouLater> Whatever, I'm connected now. 04:08:03 <ST2> so, you know your network IP and your external one 04:08:45 <ST2> on the router, forward the ports to your computer (in and out, TCP and UDP) 04:08:49 <SimYouLater> The problem is that the random string letter-number name is still there. A borrowed family member's Windows 10 Home tablet is showing he right name, and this PC has in th past. 04:09:11 <ST2> and stated, standard are 3979 - unless you change your cfg files 04:09:37 <SimYouLater> Except now the name is under 192.168.1.2 04:09:59 <ST2> do not mess up DNS with WINS 04:10:58 <SimYouLater> I think I might have to remove the DHCP and then restart the PC. I've got a Razer driver install telling me to do it anyway... let me try that./ 04:11:35 <SimYouLater> > do not mess up DNS with WINS 04:11:35 <SimYouLater> ? 04:12:00 <SimYouLater> As in, don't confuse DNS with Windows 10? 04:12:05 <ST2> https://technet.microsoft.com/pt-pt/library/cc731480(v=ws.11).aspx 04:12:11 <SimYouLater> Or don't use "wins" to modify DNS? 04:12:28 <ST2> well, that was for PT 04:12:53 <ST2> but you need to understand WINS to know how DNS works 04:13:21 <ST2> one is the way back of the other, lets put it on short words xD 04:13:32 <SimYouLater> I'm not touching WINS, don't worry. Right now I'm just trying to make my router's setting more organized. 04:15:26 <SimYouLater> By name, I mean that the name it gives for my PC was the old phone's "name". For a Winsdows 10 Tablet that was connected, it has the name of the PC in that PC's system settings: CLARA-1957 04:16:16 <ST2> SimYouLater: it doesn't matter: your Router controls it 04:16:36 <ST2> show to your Router who has the "balls" xD 04:16:41 <SimYouLater> And in the past my desktop has shown the system name instead of the random string which I at least recognize the first two letter-nmbers as the one my phone had. 04:17:59 <SimYouLater> If it was working properly, it would say PCDESK-1991. 04:18:59 <SimYouLater> I'm going to try the restart of my PC, that might work. 04:19:03 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 04:19:03 *** supermop has quit IRC 04:19:04 <ST2> well, on there... only can say ^^ 04:36:06 *** supermop has joined #openttd 04:39:04 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 05:02:44 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:57:01 *** DDR has quit IRC 06:13:06 *** cHawk has quit IRC 06:26:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:26:51 <andythenorth> o/ 06:36:18 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 06:37:27 <crem> \o 06:37:45 *** supermop has quit IRC 06:37:54 <andythenorth> how’s the game crem? 06:39:23 *** DDR has joined #openttd 06:41:29 <V453000> yo 06:44:05 <crem> Well, it goes pretty well. :) 06:44:23 <crem> Do you usually build two-track railway from the beginning? 06:44:35 <andythenorth> personally no 06:44:44 <andythenorth> it’s a cheaper start with1 track 06:44:53 <andythenorth> also I like to mess up my network deliberately 06:45:08 <andythenorth> keeps the mid-game more interesting, fixing my early mess 06:45:26 <andythenorth> V453000 such 5am again :( 06:45:29 * andythenorth old man moaning 06:45:49 <crem> But more than one train per track, right? 06:46:23 <crem> I don't mess anything deliberately, but the network soon starts to be a mess anyway. 06:50:21 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 06:55:46 <andythenorth> more than one train per track, with passing loops 06:57:23 <V453000> 5 am? 06:57:24 <V453000> fuck 06:57:31 <V453000> I finally went to sleep at 1 06:57:35 <V453000> slept until 8 06:59:32 <andythenorth> loser 06:59:38 <andythenorth> 7 hours sleep is way too much 06:59:57 <V453000> also found some sick music I listened to 10 years ago, having a good morning 06:59:58 <V453000> G_G 07:00:20 <andythenorth> I worked till 10pm, pointlessly read intenet until 11pm, got woke up by wife before 5am 07:00:23 <andythenorth> such winning 07:00:32 <andythenorth> what music? 07:01:18 <V453000> XD 07:01:38 <V453000> Fear Factory, some good industrial metal 07:02:42 <V453000> it's a nice mix of good quality and just straight forward heavy not giving a fuck mess ... and I feel like I haven' 07:02:49 <V453000> t heard anything like that recently made 07:03:27 <V453000> even their newer albums are usually trying to be political and give a message and sometimes when you just overdo it, it is really weird in heavy music to me 07:05:22 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 07:05:37 <V453000> TL;DR shit's great 07:08:59 * andythenorth youtubes it 07:09:04 <andythenorth> such industrial metal eh 07:11:26 <V453000> they're super old and their style changed quite a lot so it's hard to randomly youtube it :D 07:12:28 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-RdsIst6p4 07:12:33 <andythenorth> seems legit 07:13:35 <V453000> yeah this is the super old stuff, can't say I like that much 07:13:58 <V453000> it's not bad, I just prefer the newer things 07:14:07 <V453000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJrKkZ1uHAc medium era, modern https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRzlultnnQw 07:15:45 <V453000> hm shit now I realize I need to copy the old things as well 07:17:58 <andythenorth> maybe it’s a Nine Inch Nails day here 07:19:25 <V453000> haha 07:19:47 <andythenorth> such techno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce3xOgg9mtk 07:20:12 <andythenorth> Nine Inch Nails is like the second most ultimate form of pop music 07:20:17 <andythenorth> after the KLF 07:20:59 <V453000> yeah I know NIN, I heard the whole discography about few times but I didn't really like it that much 07:21:49 <andythenorth> it was maybe a moment-in-time thing 07:22:09 <andythenorth> along with watching this on heavy repeat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_(1994_film) 07:22:21 <andythenorth> and playing LAN Doom in the dark hours of the night 07:23:23 <V453000> XD 07:27:45 <V453000> omfg discovered new interesting way how to make a tree so it's less minecraft :D 07:30:47 <andythenorth> pictures 07:30:54 * andythenorth having a newgrf break 07:31:51 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8574/iz-tree.png 07:32:06 <V453000> basically green shapes (bricks) held by some branches 07:32:14 <V453000> instead of branch structure going inside 07:32:16 <andythenorth> looks like a hug 07:32:20 <V453000> iz hug 07:32:23 <andythenorth> iz 07:32:27 <V453000> grate 07:32:54 <andythenorth> http://img.brickowl.com/files/image_cache/larger/lego-tree-set-10069-4.jpg 07:33:05 <V453000> yeah don't want to go full lego ;P 07:33:16 <V453000> I feel like taking lego and minecraft references is kind of lame 07:33:17 <andythenorth> tropic http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-e2H-h0H90e4/UMo1HXuvZtI/AAAAAAAAAZM/IG6tMimU9Js/s1600/P1011860.JPG 07:33:22 <andythenorth> iz lame 07:33:31 <V453000> iz 07:33:42 <andythenorth> I use it to see shapes though 07:33:45 <andythenorth> also colours 07:33:50 <V453000> point good 07:33:56 <andythenorth> reduces realism to simple forms and shit 07:34:10 <andythenorth> such art 07:34:32 * andythenorth back to politics 07:34:34 <andythenorth> and FS 07:35:18 <V453000> XD 07:36:21 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 07:36:35 <andythenorth> oops, playing this loud with kids nearby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccY25Cb3im0 07:36:38 <andythenorth> error 07:37:41 <V453000> when hearing both together with this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3dGg5zRHqY 07:37:43 <V453000> pretty fucked up 07:37:44 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 07:38:00 <V453000> ... that's one of their electro grindcore whatever experiments XD 07:39:28 <V453000> also dirty AF 07:39:33 <andythenorth> works 07:40:02 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 07:40:35 <V453000> sometimes I tend to listen to 80s styled synthwave, something about it is just so refreshing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvqDqoYXMY&t=1s this one is rather dark but you get the point 07:42:38 <andythenorth> ha skulls and shit 07:43:08 <V453000> this thing is nuts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpDn4-Na5co 07:43:13 <andythenorth> they have definitely got some Depeche Mode in their CD collection 07:43:14 <V453000> 80s from the first second I Feel like 07:43:39 <andythenorth> pure Miami Vice 07:43:43 <V453000> note that I was born in 1990 so I don't know fuck about 80s, I am just a cool kid listening to 'that old music' now 07:43:44 <V453000> haha 07:44:20 <V453000> yeah I should go take shower and get back to making treehugs 07:44:22 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEjXPY9jOx8 07:44:22 <V453000> fuck yeah 07:44:40 <V453000> yeah 07:44:41 <V453000> similar 07:44:42 <andythenorth> that LZRHWK song is pretty much Miami Vice theme :D 07:44:46 <V453000> dem synths 07:44:53 <andythenorth> fuck showering 07:45:00 <andythenorth> gets in way of work and internet 07:45:08 <V453000> lawyered 07:45:17 <V453000> mainly the latter is obviously critically important 07:45:23 <V453000> well, shower & hugs 07:45:23 <V453000> laters 07:45:41 <V453000> ok, work after, I promis 07:57:41 *** Rokstap has joined #openttd 07:57:43 <Rokstap> Good day, I would like to know how to drive cheat codes just I play through the phone ПЕРЕВЕСТИ 07:59:30 *** Rokstap has quit IRC 08:03:35 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 08:05:46 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 08:09:47 <crem> what.. Release of 'Cook Serve Delicious 2' is delayed :( It should have been released today! 08:28:12 <andythenorth> V453000: this LZRHWK album has now gone full on Kraftwerk :o 08:29:43 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:29:52 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8575/trees-wip.png moar huggin 08:29:55 <V453000> yeah that's possible 08:30:01 <Wolf01> Moin 08:30:26 <andythenorth> V453000: super geometries 08:30:31 <andythenorth> geometrees :( 08:30:37 <andythenorth> bad pun 08:30:37 <Wolf01> NotTrees would be cool 08:31:31 <Wolf01> Tell the game at which height a tree could be built, which terrain, remove logic from game 08:32:08 <andythenorth> win win win 08:32:30 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:32:39 <andythenorth> also no need for multiple tree building algorithms 08:32:48 <andythenorth> move the algorithm to script 08:32:59 <andythenorth> one less combinatorial thing 08:33:02 <V453000> sure and support for 64 tree growth stages so there isn't so little sprites for trees 08:33:10 <andythenorth> 64? 08:33:12 <Wolf01> Algorithm per-tree 08:33:13 <andythenorth> 256! 08:33:21 <V453000> an control over framerate of each tree 08:33:23 <V453000> fuck yeah 08:33:28 <andythenorth> why not :P 08:33:28 <peter1138> ini files 08:33:34 <andythenorth> except such map space 08:33:35 <peter1138> shaders 08:33:37 <andythenorth> hey look a peter1138 08:33:43 <Wolf01> Tree changes with season? O_O 08:34:00 <andythenorth> peter1138: V453000 sent me this thing which is like all the 1980s in one album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpDn4-Na5co 08:34:41 <peter1138> i put skull & shark on first 08:35:00 <andythenorth> oh now it’s gone Daft Punk 08:35:02 <V453000> tree changes with local slug mood based on annual slug referendum at local steel mills? 08:35:12 <andythenorth> DP isn’t 1980s :P 08:35:21 <Wolf01> andythenorth: prepare a spec? 08:35:22 <andythenorth> V453000: way too much politics 08:35:45 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what does current tree algorithm do? 08:35:54 <Wolf01> Stuff 08:35:56 <andythenorth> is it a tile loop, visited periodically? 08:36:01 <Wolf01> Yes 08:36:19 <andythenorth> any spec will have to get through an inevitable “is this just newobjects†step :P 08:36:22 <andythenorth> shall we do it now? 08:36:28 <Wolf01> Checks for other trees, plants new trees semi-random-based 08:36:43 <andythenorth> is NoTrees just an extension of NewObjects? 08:36:56 <Wolf01> Could be 08:37:00 <andythenorth> wrong answer :) 08:37:05 <andythenorth> “No†08:37:16 <andythenorth> trees is trees 08:37:18 <Wolf01> But trees have far more impact than standard objects, so no 08:37:27 <andythenorth> we don’t need to be planting objects all over the map randomly 08:37:46 *** debdog has joined #openttd 08:40:10 <Celestar> hm .. it's been a while since a fetched the repo O-o 08:40:46 <peter1138> not much changed i bet 08:40:49 <andythenorth> :o 08:40:52 <andythenorth> it’s a Celestar 08:41:01 <Celestar> haha :) 08:41:06 <Celestar> it hasn't, peter1138? 08:41:12 <V453000> :000 :P 08:41:15 <peter1138> just guessing 08:41:21 <Wolf01> Somebody wants to review this? https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/d7cfc9f2018339453d14f62a9e6e26d6 Beware: long patch of find & replace 08:41:45 <andythenorth> so how do pull requests work then? o_O 08:42:30 <peter1138> someone says "pull pls" 08:43:45 <Celestar> it still is on svn :P 08:43:56 <peter1138> :( 08:45:04 <Celestar> how ya been? 08:46:52 <V453000> andythenorth: apparently the best way to keep developers around is so start closing a shitload of FS tickets so everyone starts caring again about their ancient glorious ideas XD 08:47:05 <Wolf01> Ha! 08:47:08 <andythenorth> makes it seem like shit is happening eh? 08:47:09 <andythenorth> also 08:47:14 <V453000> iz 08:47:27 <andythenorth> nobody wants to wade through 840 things that are badly categorised, badly titled 08:47:28 <andythenorth> untested 08:47:29 <andythenorth> aging 08:47:34 <V453000> just reopen the tickets in 2 months and then go for another round 08:47:38 <andythenorth> no 08:47:42 <V453000> XD 08:47:44 <andythenorth> just close 200 of the 436 remaining 08:47:47 <V453000> iz plan I promise 08:47:50 <andythenorth> see who comes here to complain 08:47:56 <andythenorth> have a chat with them 08:48:46 * Celestar hates svn 08:49:10 <andythenorth> get the git 08:49:17 <andythenorth> https://git.openttd.org/ 08:49:24 <andythenorth> there’s even a github remote or something 08:49:31 <crem> Visual SourceSafe! 08:49:36 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD 08:49:40 <Wolf01> I use VSS :P 08:49:56 <andythenorth> dunno how the github syncs, if it’s just one way 08:50:06 <andythenorth> bit limiting for pull requests eh? 08:50:14 <Celestar> Visual SourceWhatCrap? 08:50:28 <crem> For personal repository, it's proper two-way sync. 08:50:46 <Wolf01> Oh god... SimYouLater answered to "what is ottd today?" 08:50:54 <Wolf01> Wall of text 08:51:20 <andythenorth> don’t reply 08:51:24 <andythenorth> I asked if it can be locked 08:51:28 <Celestar> I cannot possibly believe that Microsoft is able to produce a useful RCS. 08:51:39 <Wolf01> I don't think I want to read it either 08:51:46 <andythenorth> it’s worth reading, but not replying 08:52:03 <andythenorth> it contains so much wrong, that I think there are mental health issues of some kind 08:52:10 <andythenorth> or something like that 08:52:46 <andythenorth> I thought of at least 10 replies so far, but they all seem like bullying or showboating 08:53:08 <Wolf01> If only we had a quote system or even hyperlinks to be able to get the question he answered... 08:53:47 <andythenorth> I also had some preliminary PM previews of that post 08:53:48 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> it contains so much wrong, that I think there are mental health issues of some kind <- yes, he said that already in NRT topic 08:54:00 <andythenorth> I got a personal edition sent directly 08:55:55 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:56:00 <Wolf01> Ok, since he replied for every post, I could just put 2 browser windows side by side 08:56:09 <andythenorth> same 08:56:12 <V453000> well I better go to work, but geometreehugs is a lot of fun 08:56:18 <andythenorth> V453000 same here 08:56:30 <andythenorth> you should keep that name btw 08:56:34 <Wolf01> Same h... not :( 08:57:22 <andythenorth> bug count increased :( 08:57:23 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6615 08:57:49 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8576/tree-xxx.png :) 08:58:09 <V453000> also I plan to go wild with toyland trees 08:58:10 <V453000> fyu 08:58:12 <V453000> fyi 08:58:13 <V453000> fya 08:58:15 <V453000> ff 08:58:16 <V453000> g 08:58:21 <V453000> I should probably go. :D 08:58:23 <V453000> cyas 08:58:27 <Wolf01> Bye 09:02:13 <andythenorth> biab 09:02:19 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:02:44 <peter1138> hi 09:03:05 <peter1138> nice tree 09:06:07 <peter1138> hmm, over compression is getting to me on that skull & shark album 09:11:09 <LordAro> peter1138: you know bikes 09:20:35 <peter1138> sup 09:41:16 <peter1138> no? 09:41:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:41:48 <LordAro> peter1138: want a road bike. ~£800. any thoughts? 09:43:05 <Alkel_U3> Speaking of bikes, does anyone know about a simple front hub with 36 holes and 74mm dropout? I can't find any and fear I'll have to replace the whole fork :/ 09:44:01 <peter1138> LordAro, depends what it'll be for 09:44:37 <peter1138> 36 holes on the front? that's a lot 09:44:41 *** Celestar has quit IRC 09:45:18 <LordAro> peter1138: largely commuting, but the occasional "event" type thing (hopefully with increasing frequency) 09:45:21 <crem> bikes? Are there bikes in openttd? For transport of pizza it's good. 09:45:50 <peter1138> https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/front-hubs-standard/?width=74 < only 28 holes on those :S 09:47:05 <andythenorth> crem: o_O http://www.railbike.com/images/2railbikes.jpg 09:47:31 <Alkel_U3> yeah, maybe I'll try to stick with 28h for now but with the amount of potholes I meet I'd perhaps be happiest with replacing the front wheel for a rounded stone slab 09:48:30 <andythenorth> you need a tweel http://www.michelintweel.com/ 09:49:15 <Alkel_U3> I'd definitely need a larger fork for that :D 09:50:08 <LordAro> peter1138: i've been looking at Whyte & PlanetX 09:54:23 <peter1138> planetx london road is alright 09:54:30 <peter1138> bit over 800 though 09:55:05 <peter1138> ribble have a few sub £800 builds 09:56:36 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 10:00:14 <peter1138> they let you choose bits as well 10:10:36 *** Celestar has quit IRC 10:11:03 <Alkel_U3> *sigh* there are no double-walled 406-19 28h rims either, apparently 10:11:57 <Alkel_U3> so the hubs that would fit into my forks are only up to 28h but the rims that I like are mostly 36h 10:16:02 <peter1138> :( 10:16:28 <Alkel_U3> I would sum it up like that, yes 10:17:08 <peter1138> https://drewdevereux.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/36-hole-rim-laced-to-28-hole-hub/ 10:17:08 <peter1138> :p 10:17:18 <peter1138> sounds and looks nasty 10:18:29 <Alkel_U3> I'd rather go with a new fork than that :-) 10:20:16 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 10:21:22 <Alkel_U3> I want the wheel to not go aut of true easily and this doesn't look that well balanced (but I've already considered this option, too :-) ) 10:22:19 <peter1138> http://foldingbike.biz/epages/7665e38c-067c-4fa0-9037-afac2266f927.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/7665e38c-067c-4fa0-9037-afac2266f927/Products/DAHROLWERK20FRONSIL 10:22:47 <peter1138> i guess you have a specific rim in mind though 10:25:12 <Alkel_U3> since I'm not able to find any combination of what I ideally want this is probably the best I've seen so far, so thanks 10:25:38 <peter1138> if you go back to the category there's a few others there 10:26:37 <peter1138> also one with *7* holes 10:26:38 <peter1138> haha 10:29:46 <Alkel_U3> that wold get decimated quickly. MTBs are a suitable and not very impractical type of bike in Prague :-) 10:30:52 <Alkel_U3> this one actually has the combination of rim and hub I want but I probably won't spend so much on it :-) http://foldingbike.biz/epages/7665e38c-067c-4fa0-9037-afac2266f927.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/7665e38c-067c-4fa0-9037-afac2266f927/Products/DAHROLWERK20FRONQRBLA1] 10:34:01 <peter1138> also search ebay for dahon wheel 36 spoke 10:34:14 <peter1138> or just 20" wheel 10:36:45 <Alkel_U3> Good idea, I forgot to check prebuilt wheels 10:46:07 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:49:33 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:00:48 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 11:00:54 <_dp_> o/ 11:01:32 <_dp_> V453000, nice tree, reminded me of http://2127.shop.textalk.se/shop/2127/art27/h0397/14140397-origpic-4e2e1a.jpg 11:01:55 <V453000> haha 11:05:14 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 11:07:22 <_dp_> might not be a bad idea to turn some magic staffs back into trees actually xD 11:12:38 <andythenorth> hmm 11:12:53 <andythenorth> maybe I can close 50 more FS tasks, based on date opened 11:13:05 <andythenorth> “admin" 11:19:18 <V453000> XD 11:19:27 <V453000> who will it summon? 11:20:07 <andythenorth> dunno :) 11:21:08 <andythenorth> 118 of them eh https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=2001-01-01&openedto=2012-08-14&do=index 11:27:47 <Wolf01> Mass close them 11:31:31 <Wolf01> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4947 <- close? Or implement https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53394 11:36:09 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 11:37:35 <andythenorth> does it not completely spank performance? 11:37:48 * andythenorth would expect serious FAIL with that patch 11:38:23 *** supermop has joined #openttd 11:40:05 <_dp_> andythenorth, isn't it the same as dragging map window to full screen size? 11:40:12 <_dp_> andythenorth, performance-wise 11:40:30 <andythenorth> dunno 11:40:50 <andythenorth> that is a shitload of things to try and draw 11:41:52 <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you test the patch? 11:41:59 <Wolf01> Nope 11:44:05 <peter1138> have we got infinite size maps yet? 11:44:53 <andythenorth> peter1138 FS 4947 - daft? 11:45:00 <andythenorth> we already have performance issues 11:45:08 <andythenorth> and we have giant maps 11:45:15 <peter1138> there's a patch isn't there? 11:45:16 <andythenorth> and we have a bunch of bug reports about 4k screens 11:45:28 <peter1138> yeah it links to it, MJP's zoom out 11:45:29 <andythenorth> 128x zoom out on a 4k screen 11:45:38 <andythenorth> on a 4096x4096 map 11:45:43 <andythenorth> with 5k trains 11:45:44 <peter1138> so? 11:45:55 <andythenorth> bug reports that it’s slow? 11:46:09 <FLHerne> Well, it looks like it drops back to a minimap level of detail 11:46:11 <peter1138> solvable. 11:46:15 <peter1138> yes 11:46:25 <peter1138> also don't draw vehicles beyond a certain level, etc, etc 11:46:25 <FLHerne> So no newgrf sprite lookups or animations or any of that nonsense 11:46:43 * peter1138 wanders for lunch 11:46:48 <andythenorth> fix :P https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4934 11:47:11 <FLHerne> Aargh, I just called realismfeatures 'nonsense'. You're infecting my minds. :-/ 11:47:13 <peter1138> it was bollocks 11:48:39 <peter1138> i should just make a debian 9 vm on windows 11:48:48 <peter1138> then i can dev on ottd again 11:49:03 <peter1138> windows is too painful :p 11:49:08 <peter1138> but games 11:50:03 <andythenorth> le sigh https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6354 11:50:46 <Celestar> Windows is a good gaming platform 11:50:57 <Celestar> too bad it's completely useless for anything else. 11:51:25 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 11:51:50 *** cHawk has quit IRC 11:52:18 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 11:52:59 * andythenorth lives on an OS that’s not actually good at anything 11:53:57 <_dp_> andythenorth, I heard it's good for video editing 11:54:16 <andythenorth> nah 11:54:36 *** supermop has quit IRC 12:00:45 <V453000> XD 12:03:56 * andythenorth misses Mac OS 8 12:04:07 <andythenorth> it sometimes went nearly a whole hour before crashing hard 12:06:26 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 12:11:44 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 12:17:44 <FLHerne> Yay, I remember that 12:18:50 <FLHerne> On the other hand, avoiding the need for any sort of Linux bootloader was a convenient feature 12:19:15 <FLHerne> Just start the kernel from a MacOS application, overwrite the OS in memory, carry on... 12:21:58 <andythenorth> ha 12:24:17 <ST2> that moment you make google costumers active: 12:24:17 <ST2> [13:17:24] <~ST2> !say Trivia of the day: Who was the 1st female locopilot (train driver) of the Indian Railways? 12:24:18 <ST2> [13:18:18] <+ttd-srv1> BladiN (Spectator): Surekha Yadav 12:24:18 <ST2> [13:18:43] <~ST2> !say and BladiN won the cake: Surekha Yadav is correct ;) 12:24:18 <ST2> [13:18:48] <+ttd-srv1> BladiN (Spectator): woho 12:24:19 <ST2> xD 12:33:03 <Flygon> <Celestar> too bad it's completely useless for anything else. 12:33:07 <Flygon> As an artist, it's good for art. :V 12:33:20 <Flygon> While also catering for needs OSX doesn't do. :VVV 12:33:33 <Celestar> As a dev, it's completely shit. 12:34:25 <Flygon> Hell, Paint Tool SAI doesn't even support OSX. 12:34:34 <Flygon> (A shame it's not cross-platform. Japanese dev. =/_ 12:34:36 <Flygon> ) 12:34:54 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 12:35:27 <Flygon> (On the other hand the 32-bit Paint Tool SAIs officially support Windows 98. This's a modern art application that's still extremely widely used, and updated.) 12:37:16 *** supermop has joined #openttd 12:38:47 <andythenorth> "Fully support Intel MMX Technology" 12:38:50 <andythenorth> :) 12:39:08 <Flygon> Very Japanese dev. 12:48:16 <Alkel_U3> uh, 32-bit SAI once stung me by being 32bit. 10000×8000 canvas with many layers is best left to 64bit programs 12:49:19 <Alkel_U3> I could save the file but I had to start by merging the tiniest layers first as it didn't even have enough memory to merge the fuller ones 12:50:54 <Alkel_U3> I'd still like to use it on linux but wine doesn't hand its applications pressure and such from tablets :/ 13:01:39 <Flygon> Hahaha yeah. 13:01:51 <Flygon> I can't wait for the 64-bit version to be prim and proper. 13:01:51 *** supermop has quit IRC 13:02:07 <Flygon> I haven't hit the RAM limit for a while for... erm, a rather stupid reason. 13:02:15 <Flygon> SAI is an amazing pixel art editor with the binary brush. 13:04:59 <Alkel_U3> I bought Aseprite for pixelart, it's quite good IMHO 13:06:08 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 13:06:23 <Flygon> Ahh, I purchased it then... never used it for some reason. 13:09:03 <Flygon> Does Aseprite actually support limiting RGB adjustments to certain ranges? 13:09:53 <Alkel_U3> I know a guy who's been doing digital painting in GIMP for years and refuses to switch to anything more sane for being used to it. Might be similar reason :-) 13:10:13 <Alkel_U3> I'm not sure what that means precisely 13:10:33 <Flygon> It'd be useful to have a mode where you don't have an overall palette. 13:10:40 <Flygon> But the RGB steps are limited to certain places. 13:10:57 <Flygon> For example, with the Mega Drive hardware's RGB DAC operating the way it is, it's actually non-linear. 13:11:42 <Flygon> So, with shadow/highlight mode turned off (which adds a layer of weirdness to the analog output - the S/H process is 100% analog), the RGB steps go in terms of 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255 13:12:08 <Flygon> Now, it's nice and all I memorized the non-linear input, but it's a pain in the ass to type in or manually slide the colour adjuster to those exact numbers hahaha. 13:13:01 <Alkel_U3> well, it does have a shading tool where you can specify exact indexes for steps 13:13:21 <Alkel_U3> https://www.aseprite.org/docs/shading/ 13:14:03 <Flygon> Heheh. 13:14:10 <Flygon> Yeah, that's closeish, but not quite. 13:14:52 <Flygon> So far, my best bet has been doing the colours in SAI, using the (inaccurate) 36 step method, simply due to being easier to input the colours for. 13:15:04 <Flygon> And hoping the non-linear distortion by the actual DAC doesn't look too off. 13:16:39 <Wolf01> I tried to use http://pixelart.studio/ but I'm not good at pixel art :P 13:18:35 <Flygon> aaa those example arts bother me hahaha. 13:18:45 <Flygon> They look way too 'pixel arty'. :D 13:21:08 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 13:23:57 <Alkel_U3> I also used to use i.Mage for my first TTD pixelart attempts about 10 years ago but when I came back to it recently I couldn't comprehend how I used to be able to control it efficiently :-) 13:26:09 <Alkel_U3> also in the pixelart studio's gallery there are apparently people who like giving others epileptic seizures 13:26:26 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 13:26:50 <Wolf01> Mmmh, must reboot 13:26:53 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 13:27:11 <Flygon> That 'Cool Laser Gun :P' looks like it's... uhm... 13:27:13 <Flygon> ... 13:27:17 <Flygon> ...like Spiderman's webslinger. 13:28:28 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:28:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:30:05 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 13:30:37 <Alkel_U3> I'd rather think GTA2's electrogun 13:34:03 <Flygon> I mean the way it shoots. 13:34:17 <Flygon> It's like a viscousious fluid. 13:34:41 <Alkel_U3> oh yeah, sure 13:37:19 <Flygon> Yeah, we're on the same page now. Hahaha. 13:37:36 <Flygon> Maybe I should just send the Aseprite guys an email. 13:50:10 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:50:34 <Alberth> o/ 13:50:45 <frosch123> hoi 13:51:30 <Wolf01> Quak 13:52:55 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:55:16 <andythenorth> hi frosch123 13:55:17 <andythenorth> early 13:56:35 <frosch123> i cleaned up my mailbox 13:58:33 <V453000> was there spam about fs tasks ?:P 13:59:09 <Alberth> nah, it was all good news, everything is done :) 13:59:15 <frosch123> i'll likely ignore the pm requests and just consider fs broken wrt that 13:59:56 <frosch123> anyway, i started a new todo list, it already has 25 items ... 14:00:05 <V453000> XD 14:00:27 <ST2> 25 items ...?! that's rookie numbers xD 14:00:45 <frosch123> well, the old one had 150? 14:00:56 <ST2> oh ^^ 14:01:02 <andythenorth> ha 14:01:03 <frosch123> i only added recent stuff 14:01:08 <ST2> ok, give my words back :D 14:01:26 <Alberth> perhaps let andy loose on the list :p 14:01:59 <Alberth> ie hand it to andy, likely it gets reduced to 1/4th :) 14:02:05 <andythenorth> 1/2 14:02:24 <andythenorth> I emailed James1101 and asked him if he ever joins irc 14:02:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:02:36 <andythenorth> he has filed a few quite detailed reports / diagnoses 14:02:54 <andythenorth> there are a few other people who might be good contributors 14:03:02 <andythenorth> FS has been dying on its arse for a couple of years 14:03:35 <andythenorth> it’s all Alberth or frosch123, except when peter1138 took a run at it 14:03:36 <Wolf01> <frosch123> anyway, i started a new todo list, it already has 25 items ... <- want another one? 14:03:56 <andythenorth> noticeably 4 years ago, there’s a lot more r*bidium, Z*u, michi etc 14:04:10 <andythenorth> and a bit before that, hirund*, yex* etc 14:04:11 <Alberth> yep, RB closed loads of them 14:04:32 <frosch123> Wolf01: another list? :p 14:04:44 <Wolf01> I have that singleton patch to review 14:04:52 <andythenorth> a lot of good comes from having more people test patches, and try to repro bugs 14:04:57 <andythenorth> even if they don’t have commit rights 14:05:16 <andythenorth> there are a few people like adf88 who post on FS a lot, but have no channel back to here 14:05:17 <peter1138> that bugs me with newgrf patches 14:05:27 <peter1138> newgrf authors don't test them 14:05:42 <andythenorth> I get the ponies I want done by providing test newgrfs 14:05:47 <andythenorth> otherwise…not happening 14:06:02 <andythenorth> I also used to do the docs updates, until I got banned from the wiki 14:06:02 <peter1138> sometimes you get a "test" newgrf 14:06:26 <Alberth> andy: also because you discuss things at first, and make it work for everybody 14:06:36 <peter1138> but no explanation of what to test, or what result is wrong, or what the expected result it 14:06:39 <peter1138> *is 14:07:02 <Alberth> which works much better than a random patch that some one wrote without checking if it's needed or desired 14:07:09 <andythenorth> I want to burn the ‘suggestions frequently asked for’ in forums, and replace 14:07:19 <andythenorth> also change the pinned topics in dev forum 14:07:31 * andythenorth so many projects :P 14:07:34 <andythenorth> I need a to-do list 14:07:39 <Alberth> :) 14:07:45 <Alberth> maybe an issue tracker :p 14:07:47 <andythenorth> maybe 14:07:50 <frosch123> andy as forum moderator sounds dangerous :p 14:07:57 <andythenorth> I am not wanting to be a mod 14:08:04 <andythenorth> same reason as I don’t want commit rights 14:08:11 <supermop_> OpenAndyDelux 14:08:12 <andythenorth> it scares me enough that I am admin on devzone 14:08:23 <andythenorth> is that thread locked yet supermop_ ? 14:08:28 <andythenorth> before any shit drama happens 14:08:34 <andythenorth> who is forum mod? 14:08:45 <frosch123> pm 14:08:51 <supermop_> andythenorth: i know many friends who are now registered architects in New York who have declined to order their stamp 14:09:10 <supermop_> because they have no interest in having people ask them to stamp drawings 14:09:26 <supermop_> not worth the headache and liability 14:09:54 <andythenorth> oh peter1138 is also mod :P 14:10:42 <supermop_> they also don't include RA or AIA after their name, best to keep it discrete lest someone ask you to take professional responsibility for some pet project 14:11:03 <peter1138> yeah 14:11:33 <andythenorth> peter1138: SimYouLater posted a long rambling odd post, and I think he has mental health issues 14:11:42 <andythenorth> usually I’d say let the drama flow, but not in this case 14:12:15 <andythenorth> me and MB were also joint recipients of some related PMs 14:12:36 <andythenorth> probably best just locked :P 14:13:15 <peter1138> nah 14:13:17 <peter1138> tl;dr 14:13:20 <peter1138> nobody is going to read it :p 14:18:28 <Alberth> indeed :) 14:20:30 *** debdog has quit IRC 14:21:07 <Wolf01> I read it along with the whole thread... and now I'm regretting it 14:22:23 <frosch123> sounds like i should not regret to not have read forums in 3 weeks :p 14:22:28 <frosch123> maybe 4 even 14:23:22 <supermop_> but how will you see my new trams? 14:23:50 <frosch123> you post them here all the time 14:24:05 <supermop_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76402 14:24:09 *** debdog has joined #openttd 14:25:40 <frosch123> ok, i did not see the trucks yet 14:27:04 <frosch123> so andy no longer has a monopoly on truck grfs 14:28:02 <andythenorth> eh george has them too :) 14:28:05 <andythenorth> and Zeph 14:28:46 <V453000> /me planned to do them at some point 14:28:48 <frosch123> george's are ancient, and zeph is a bus person iirc 14:28:51 <V453000> /doesn't anymore :D 14:32:37 <Alberth> yeti flat wagon will work as bus too 14:36:44 <frosch123> isn't that more like a rallye car? 14:38:17 <andythenorth> so how does our github repo actually work then? 14:42:52 <supermop_> i think i wil remove road trains 14:42:55 <supermop_> too stupid 14:43:02 <FLHerne> frosch123: eGRVTS has a lot of trucks 14:43:09 <supermop_> compete with regular trains 14:43:19 <supermop_> clutter the menu 14:44:00 <supermop_> as i have a road train for every type 14:44:36 <supermop_> yeah triples of regular box trailers exist but they feel odd in game 14:44:41 <andythenorth> supermop_: I quite liked them 14:44:48 <andythenorth> but they need a specific roster :P 14:45:02 <supermop_> but arbitrarily saying only mineral trucks get road trains is also stupid 14:45:05 <frosch123> FLHerne: egrvts is meh 14:45:07 <andythenorth> in a generic, balanced roster, they’re way our of place 14:45:13 <frosch123> (pure subjective answer) 14:45:16 <supermop_> specific roster? 14:45:22 <andythenorth> well you only have one :) 14:45:30 *** debdog has quit IRC 14:45:34 <andythenorth> rosters are a great tool for set design 14:45:39 <FLHerne> frosch123: Agreed, that was a response to "and zeph is a bus person iirc" 14:45:45 <andythenorth> even if you never implement them, you can design them on paper :) 14:45:57 <andythenorth> it lets you put good ideas to one side because they just don’t fit 14:46:04 <supermop_> i do think the shades of variations between rigid trucks, semis, and road trains needs more work 14:46:12 <andythenorth> I concluded ‘trucks’ 14:46:17 <andythenorth> just one type 14:46:28 <andythenorth> balancing different types is a fool’s errand 14:46:29 <andythenorth> not even fun 14:46:38 <FLHerne> It's rather like "OpenGFX++", but I don't like OGFX vehicle styling :P 14:46:43 <andythenorth> if you want road trains, add a dedicated road type for them 14:46:44 <supermop_> rather than the more realistic approach i have now which is, 'this is basically the same truck with slightly more hp, and two more trailers' 14:46:55 <andythenorth> the choices in OpenTTD are about type of route you build 14:47:01 <supermop_> FLHerne: opengfx++ was my design goal 14:47:14 <andythenorth> *everyone* who is making ‘choose your optimal vehicle’ sets is…wrong 14:47:27 <andythenorth> choose the type of route, then pick the vehicle that looks nicest 14:47:44 <supermop_> original goals were 'add trolley buses to opengfx+' as proof of concept 14:47:59 <supermop_> and 'maybe make the opengfx+ trams a bit better' 14:48:24 <supermop_> i feel like i am closing in on that goal, but i accidentally added like 100 trucks in the process 14:48:49 <andythenorth> ha ha 14:49:09 <andythenorth> I set out to add industries to justify nodwells in HEQS 14:49:12 <andythenorth> now look 14:49:51 <supermop_> style aside, i like the concept of opengfx+ a lot: the vanilla vehicles with just a tad more maturity 14:50:11 <supermop_> but i always wanted just a bit more 14:50:34 *** debdog has joined #openttd 14:50:34 <supermop_> in the meantime IH became my opengfx+ trains, 14:51:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27897 /trunk (4 files in 2 dirs) (2017-08-24 16:50:55 +0200 ) 14:51:01 <DorpsGek> -Add [FS#6577]: Project file generator for kdevelop 4/5 (adf88) 14:51:04 <andythenorth> :) 14:51:24 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:51:25 <peter1138> zomg 14:51:45 <andythenorth> commits 14:51:53 <andythenorth> also...nodwells…http://foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-equipment/tracked-vehicles/nodwell-110/ 14:52:10 <supermop_> and RH would be my opengfx+ RVs, except NRT made me curious about electric trucks and diesel trams 14:52:27 <supermop_> which were out of scope for RH, so i had to make my own Opengfx++ 14:52:33 <andythenorth> circularity 14:52:42 <andythenorth> FIRS was invented to give the nodwells something to do 14:52:48 <andythenorth> but I never added the nodwells to HEQS 14:52:53 <andythenorth> now they only exist in FIRS :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#supply_yard 14:52:58 <andythenorth> just one 14:53:26 <andythenorth> supermop_: electric trucks aren’t out of scope for RH :) 14:53:40 <andythenorth> I wanted someone else to test them out first 14:53:44 * andythenorth prefers to steal 14:53:54 <supermop_> andythenorth: i wanted them now 14:54:45 <andythenorth> fair ;) 15:05:56 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:08:09 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 15:09:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:12:52 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:13:19 <Wolf01> I'm bored, and I don't want to do anything :( 15:14:28 <andythenorth> youtube 15:14:34 <andythenorth> youtube + exercise bike 15:14:36 <andythenorth> winning combo 15:14:48 <andythenorth> after 2kms you’re bored of both, and want to do something 15:14:51 <Wolf01> I'm already on netflix, and no space for exercise bike or anything else 15:19:21 *** debdog has quit IRC 15:24:06 <Alkel_U3> real bike, then? 15:25:38 <andythenorth> outside? :o 15:26:34 *** debdog has joined #openttd 15:33:02 <peter1138> outdoors + real bike 15:33:10 <peter1138> works for me 15:33:27 <peter1138> 200km without getting bored :p 15:35:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 15:35:16 <crem> 200km is a lot of YouTube videos.. 15:35:53 <Alkel_U3> with the advent of 20h loops it could be just one 15:36:53 <Alkel_U3> like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLDKnWi2hNA 15:37:49 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:37:51 <Alkel_U3> although if the intention was to actually >watch< the video, it might be more mercifull to just shoot self :-) 15:42:04 <Wolf01> I don't like to do things alone, I get bored before even starting 15:42:43 <frosch123> too early for ginger beer? 15:43:24 * frosch123 should not advocate drinking probably 15:43:35 <ST2> it's always time for beer... at least somewhere in the world xD 15:44:27 <andythenorth> it’s time for beer or margaritas 15:49:56 *** supermop has quit IRC 15:52:05 <Wolf01> <frosch123> too early for ginger beer? <- ginger *ale, the pub is closed for holiday 15:55:27 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:55:50 <peter1138> eh, ginger beer is a fizzy soft drink 15:56:31 <andythenorth> what is it for ? 15:56:45 <frosch123> i have no idea about the difference between beer and ale 15:57:31 <peter1138> ginger ale is also a slightly fizzy drink, usually used a mixer for cheap whisky or such like 15:58:00 <peter1138> neither resemble beer or ale 15:58:25 <Alkel_U3> well, "ale" is usually a more bitter style of beer 15:59:18 <Alkel_U3> not very common or traditional around here, I discovered that it's a thing only about 5 years ago 16:00:50 <frosch123> wiki lists 22 types of making beer 16:02:03 <Alkel_U3> yeah, gotta drink them all :-) 16:03:00 <frosch123> i heard like 9 of them, though 3 of them i considered the same :p 16:05:03 <andythenorth> @seen adf88 16:05:03 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: adf88 was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <adf88> we are in a middle of a coup, interesting times... ;/ 16:05:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: adf usually joins .dev 16:05:26 <frosch123> he's the only one to use that channel though :p 16:05:32 <andythenorth> I stopped joing .dev 16:05:35 <andythenorth> tumbleweed 16:05:38 <andythenorth> also coop 16:05:49 <andythenorth> I used to enjoy coop 16:06:19 <frosch123> yeah, noone around anymore 16:07:24 <andythenorth> it was like the back channel on the back channel 16:07:31 <andythenorth> is #tycoon still a thing? 16:07:35 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:07:36 <andythenorth> or whatever the other place was 16:07:46 <frosch123> no, i think this is the only place left 16:08:03 <andythenorth> coop died when Ammler and planetmaker stopped posting much there :) 16:08:17 <planetmaker> yeah... kinda :| 16:08:19 <andythenorth> (the channel, not coop as a concept) 16:10:10 <supermop_> #tycoon is mostly just my home laptop joining and quitting 16:12:25 <supermop_> andythenorth: ginger beer is for making dark and stormies, or moscow mules, etc 16:13:06 <supermop_> ginger ale is more commonly consumed on its own or sometimes as a mixer, it is less strong in ginger flavor 16:13:14 * andythenorth biab 16:13:15 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:13:17 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:13:39 <supermop_> ginger beer is somewhat 'spicy' due to being so gingery 16:15:36 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:21:29 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 16:27:28 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 16:37:01 *** debdog has quit IRC 16:40:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:41:23 <LordAro> supermop_: speaking of, you should get a bouncer 16:41:46 <V453000> I will bounce on you all night 16:41:46 <supermop_> ha 16:41:49 <V453000> just for 16:42:36 <supermop_> i could just turn my laptop off when i am not home 16:42:49 *** debdog has joined #openttd 16:43:48 <andythenorth> what does it all mean? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6614 16:46:00 <frosch123> LordAro: a bouncer is a grave 16:46:09 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:46:26 <LordAro> frosch123: not if you put it on a server you actually maintain 16:46:32 <LordAro> or a server *someone* maintains 16:47:22 <frosch123> i just go by what is common here :p 16:47:44 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 16:50:36 <supermop_> ok go to korea and japan for two weeks on saturday 16:50:48 <supermop_> should i 'release' RVs before then? 16:51:20 <andythenorth> do an RC :P 16:51:23 <supermop_> wont have other tram styles drawn before then but i could fix running costs and smoke effects 16:51:23 <andythenorth> or a beta 16:51:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: so can I stop typing yex* and just let my autocomplete bother his bouncer? :) 16:51:51 <supermop_> was thinking last night about parcel trams etc 16:52:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:52:39 <supermop_> so andythenorth does RH mean no more heqs style locomotives? 16:53:09 <supermop_> not sure if i should draw little tram dummies or tiny tank engines and shuntrs 16:53:46 <andythenorth> both 16:54:14 <andythenorth> there are source images showing prototypes for all things 16:54:28 <andythenorth> draw what looks good :) 16:54:47 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:56:12 <_dp_> andythenorth, 6614 is a small improvement that will make it easier to compile openttd in some weird ways :) 16:56:49 <andythenorth> how can it be tested? 16:58:09 <_dp_> good question :) 16:58:24 <_dp_> I have a vague idea how to do that but only on linux 16:58:57 <andythenorth> some projects have a ‘to test’ convention for patches 16:59:08 <andythenorth> with instructions 16:59:20 <frosch123> just apply some prejustice 16:59:57 <frosch123> it's an adf patch, so it probably works, you need to check for style and whether it fits/contradicts existing things 17:00:00 <_dp_> andythenorth, in this case I guess it would be 'to test setup this weird cross-compiling environment" 17:00:49 <andythenorth> hmm 17:00:59 * andythenorth won’t do that then 17:01:08 <andythenorth> Wolf01: NoTrees spec draft? o_O 17:01:29 <Wolf01> Why not? 17:01:36 <_dp_> andythenorth, though you can test that it doesn't break anything for compiling in normal environments :) 17:01:57 <andythenorth> I’d need a normal environment for that :) 17:02:06 * andythenorth tests 17:02:34 <Wolf01> Meh, I wanted to try that zoom patch, but I'm not going to apply 30 patches 17:02:40 <andythenorth> it’s not clean 17:02:48 <andythenorth> people should fork on github 17:02:52 <Wolf01> Yes 17:03:00 <andythenorth> branches > patches 17:03:37 <frosch123> ottd pushed the idea of mq in the past :) 17:03:47 <andythenorth> that went…well? :) 17:03:51 <Wolf01> BTW, I have that singleton patch on hold which I don't want to commit 17:03:57 <frosch123> for everyone but you iirc 17:04:06 <andythenorth> yeah, that figures :) 17:04:17 <frosch123> "andy and hg" certainly has some dark memories in this channel :p 17:04:46 <andythenorth> it’s ok, once I got used to the ‘save a diff, destroy your repo, re-clone and apply diff’ hg workflow :) 17:05:15 <andythenorth> I have about the same with git and ‘reset —hard’, it just uses less bandwidth :P 17:05:48 <andythenorth> so where are the tree algorithms 17:05:56 <andythenorth> landscape.cpp? 17:06:44 <Wolf01> tree_cmd.cpp 17:08:11 <andythenorth> 6614 builds ok on OS X btw 17:08:24 <andythenorth> for vanilla compile 17:09:02 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ok so CanPlantTreesOnTile() <- move to newgrf cb 17:09:18 <Wolf01> Yes 17:09:24 <andythenorth> GetRandomTreeType() <- move to newgrf cb 17:09:45 <andythenorth> PlaceTree() can’t tell what that does yet 17:09:53 <frosch123> make a profile how often it is caleld 17:10:08 <andythenorth> that’s like saying ‘andythenorth fly a rocket to the moon’ :) 17:10:10 <andythenorth> I could 17:10:13 <andythenorth> but it’s a moon shot 17:10:16 <andythenorth> might take time :P 17:10:46 <andythenorth> PlaceTreeGroups() can’t see why newgrf would need to control that 17:12:00 <andythenorth> hmm, does newgrf need to know what’s building the tree? 17:12:10 <andythenorth> player / map gen / tile loop / SE 17:12:17 <frosch123> company coloured trees? :p 17:12:26 <andythenorth> is there an owner bit? 17:12:30 <Wolf01> PlaceTreeGroups just calls PlaceTree for an area 17:12:58 <andythenorth> does newgrf get to refuse ClearTile_Trees() ? 17:13:02 <andythenorth> protected trees? 17:13:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:13:33 <Wolf01> Mmmh 17:13:45 * andythenorth thinks that can be in NoTrees 2 17:13:49 <andythenorth> not 1 17:13:52 <frosch123> i am sure the transmitter-haters will love indestructible trees 17:13:59 <andythenorth> awesome eh? 17:14:12 <andythenorth> how does the lumber mill interact with indestructible trees? o_O 17:14:39 <andythenorth> perhaps indestructible trees is…not needed :) 17:14:44 <andythenorth> hmm 17:14:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: they bribe the authority 17:14:57 <andythenorth> :P 17:15:10 <andythenorth> I can’t think of a way to have newgrf plant the trees near a lumber mill, if any 17:15:35 <andythenorth> it seems like in the tile loop, the newgrf should be able to count lumber mills, and choose to plant the tree(s) near them if > 0 17:15:43 <andythenorth> but I don’t think it works 17:16:07 <andythenorth> hmm, TileLoopTreesAlps() and so on 17:16:11 <andythenorth> bit specialist 17:16:57 <andythenorth> so the key thing for NoTrees: can the newgrf influence which tiles are selected for planting trees during gameplay? 17:17:10 <andythenorth> or is it only able to say yes / no to tiles presented by OpenTTD in the tileloop 17:18:01 <frosch123> what is your actual goal? 17:18:31 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:18:43 <andythenorth> well 17:18:50 <andythenorth> we had a nice name 17:18:53 <andythenorth> NotTrees 17:18:59 <andythenorth> or better, NoTrees 17:19:04 <andythenorth> kind of started from there 17:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> gotta start with a good name. almost half the work done. 17:20:11 <frosch123> invent some new noise functions for multi-dimensional desert/tropic-like areas 17:20:33 <frosch123> add variables for height and landscape-zone, and make it nolandscape 17:20:45 <frosch123> just don't add any states 17:21:14 <andythenorth> more seriously 17:21:17 <frosch123> only pseudo-random variables, and global animation-status with possibly pseudo-random offset 17:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and snow+desert on the same map. 17:21:25 <andythenorth> - move all trees to newgrf 17:21:29 <andythenorth> - both appearance and control 17:21:36 <andythenorth> - one less map gen setting 17:21:58 <andythenorth> - people *will* make grfs, look at all the station sets, despite nfo station spec being awful 17:22:13 <andythenorth> - less code, especially less ‘two options’ code 17:22:40 <andythenorth> - more control, over e.g. ‘tree line in arctic’ type stuff 17:22:52 <andythenorth> - also un-break tropic :P 17:22:57 <frosch123> maybe we can get V to make higher-variety landscape sprites 17:23:10 <frosch123> and maybe we can also get him to steal the mapgen from F :p 17:23:11 <andythenorth> a tree spec would get abused 17:23:22 <andythenorth> people would use it to randomly place sprites from newobjects 17:23:26 <andythenorth> but eh, so what? 17:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that was the entire point, something like newobjects, but more automatic randomness 17:24:16 <andythenorth> well yes 17:24:24 <andythenorth> but let’s just spec it to replace trees 17:24:39 <andythenorth> designing for emergent behaviour, not necessary :) 17:24:42 <andythenorth> will happen anyway 17:24:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: also figure out how to mark areas as tree-active 17:24:51 <andythenorth> o_O ? 17:25:03 <frosch123> no need to simulate tree growth/dieing in areas no player ever touched 17:25:19 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:25:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:25:25 <frosch123> instead keep track of areas where players bulldoze, and make plants re-takeover them 17:26:02 <andythenorth> oh there’s tree die-off and growth eh 17:26:04 * andythenorth forgot that 17:26:12 <andythenorth> on anything except small maps, that’s overkill :) 17:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> keep a balance between growth/death of trees, but also regenerate areas that are cleared 17:26:37 <frosch123> it's one of those things which likely no modern game does 17:26:54 <andythenorth> wrong level of detail 17:26:57 <frosch123> too much stateful-stuff 17:27:01 <andythenorth> could be simulated with animation :P 17:27:10 <andythenorth> on a random trigger and long frame loop 17:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> citie skylines is fun, it remembers the trees when you build over them, and restores them if you destroy it 17:27:54 <frosch123> are you sure it "remembers" them? 17:28:08 <frosch123> or does it rather create them folowing the same random seed 17:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it also restores manually placed trees 17:28:58 <andythenorth> what’s the view on moving core functionality to openttd.grf or similar? 17:29:12 <andythenorth> so that the game ships with stuff provide, but not in c++ 17:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: openttd.grf is not a newgrf 17:29:16 <andythenorth> ok 17:29:28 <andythenorth> provided * 17:30:17 <andythenorth> vanilla.grf 17:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like an oxymoron :p 17:30:55 <andythenorth> can’t move default industries to external grf :P 17:31:03 * andythenorth thinking out loud 17:31:15 <andythenorth> newgrfs often depend on default industries in core 17:32:32 <frosch123> i think that's the same in most modded games 17:32:52 <frosch123> just because you play bob's mods in f, you do not disable the base set 17:33:12 <frosch123> at least it was like that the single time i dared to look what those mods were about 17:33:17 <frosch123> before i ran away screaming 17:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 17:33:43 <andythenorth> it’s probably the wrong target also :) 17:33:55 * andythenorth would rather target dumb stuff, like how many signal types we have :) 17:34:24 <frosch123> (for context, "bob's mods" is like "firs extreme extreme") 17:34:43 <andythenorth> I see :) 17:35:32 <andythenorth> how do I test segfaults? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6615 17:35:41 <frosch123> i am sure i told the channel about the water -> salt, salt + water -> saltwater, saltwater->electrolysis-products chain 17:35:54 <andythenorth> FIRS needs that level of detail 17:36:12 <Alberth> :p 17:36:47 <andythenorth> is there a ‘try to segfault’ button somewhere? :P 17:36:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: you reproduce it, and give precise steps and possibly a stack-backtrace including parameter values 17:36:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: alt+0 17:37:06 <frosch123> or was that removed? 17:37:32 <frosch123> you can also use the console: killall -6 openttd 17:37:35 <Alkel_U3> I just tried sharing my beer by pouring it into the keyboard, did any get through? 17:37:37 <Alberth> not that I ever heard, but never tried it either 17:37:41 <andythenorth> at work we built an app with a segfault button in it 17:37:46 <andythenorth> but it wasn’t useful 17:39:10 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:40:50 <supermop_> andythenorth: i was think last night about that sort or concept - of moving various 'world' things to newgrf 17:41:02 <supermop_> like the means to generate towns 17:41:15 <andythenorth> yes 17:41:17 <supermop_> where they go, which are cities, etc 17:41:22 <andythenorth> some kind of town or economy script 17:41:35 <andythenorth> like TownControl, or GS :P 17:41:36 <andythenorth> but 17:41:48 <frosch123> yexo once had a squirrel-mapgen 17:41:53 <supermop_> if it was in newgrf you could have arbitrarily many different ways to spawn towns without having to patch game 17:41:54 <frosch123> it took ages though 17:42:32 <supermop_> currently if you don't like the way the game places towns, there really isn't anything to do about it 17:42:32 <andythenorth> GS or similar seems like a bad way to do it 17:42:36 <andythenorth> no callbacks 17:42:44 <andythenorth> but newgrf…might be horrible :P 17:43:01 <andythenorth> but I can place industries pretty well 17:43:04 <frosch123> gs are for active things, newgrf for reactive 17:43:07 <frosch123> or something 17:43:35 <supermop_> maybe you want them kind of close to water, or maybe you want the cities to have exactly 8 small towns surrounding them for some kind of MP style, idk 17:44:14 <supermop_> maybe its neither newgrf nor gs, but something, whatever it is that you download from bananas and chose at will 17:44:21 <andythenorth> GS is for goals 17:44:29 <andythenorth> in practical application so far 17:44:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is a build-roads-gs 17:45:02 <andythenorth> is there? 17:45:11 <andythenorth> I just use pikka’s annoying AI for that :) 17:45:11 <supermop_> believe so 17:45:11 <frosch123> by pikka even? 17:45:22 <frosch123> hmm, was it just an ai? 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27898 trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt (2017-08-24 19:45:40 +0200 ) 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> dutch: 18 changes by habell 17:45:56 <andythenorth> CivilAI 17:45:58 <andythenorth> roads and buses 17:46:04 <andythenorth> grows towns, blocks my train stations 17:46:09 * andythenorth has it in most games 17:46:23 <supermop_> andythenorth: realistic 17:46:46 <andythenorth> such 17:47:03 <supermop_> just like the old railroad day - have to race to build your terminals before the city gets too big for them to fit 17:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> i am sure i told the channel about the water -> salt, salt + water -> saltwater, saltwater->electrolysis-products chain <-- that sounds almost like the guys who buy pink flamingos and paint them blue, and the other guys who buy blue flamingos and paint them pink 17:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i totally forgot where that was from, though 17:47:45 <frosch123> sounds like gender studies 17:47:52 <andythenorth> ham: 1 month out of date. Fine? 17:48:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if that involves them changing after a certain date, it’s a philosophy problem 17:48:29 <andythenorth> :P 17:48:31 <frosch123> depends whether it was already 1 month out of date when it was repackaged :p 17:50:15 <andythenorth> probably not 17:50:37 <andythenorth> tasted fine 17:50:46 <andythenorth> so NoTrees 17:50:51 <andythenorth> NoTowns 17:50:54 <andythenorth> NoEconomy 17:51:03 <andythenorth> NoSignals 17:51:05 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:51:14 <Alberth> no supermop 17:51:31 <andythenorth> NoLandscape (terrain geneator) is appealing, but might be too slow if not in core 17:51:34 <andythenorth> ?? 17:52:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: only goal servers would be interested in noeconomy, and they complani that newgrf are too complicated for their users 17:52:04 <Alberth> make it configururable 17:52:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: I know but we could delete smooth economy :D 17:52:28 <andythenorth> also I would use it to control base industry production level 17:52:42 <Alberth> ie it's not only "all c++" or "all squirrel script", you can also do some at either side 17:52:44 <andythenorth> which I can do in FIRS as a parameter setting for players, but not very interestingly 17:53:09 <andythenorth> I wondered about NoDays 17:53:12 <frosch123> i think on the todo list which i had before the 150-items one, there was an item to implement smooth economy as newgrf and then removing it from the base game 17:53:12 <Alberth> *both sides, probably 17:53:23 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am +1 to that :P 17:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> notimetables 17:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> noreplace 17:53:41 <frosch123> i only came around to remove the "original vehicle names" language 17:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> noundergroundlevels 17:54:00 <andythenorth> NoDays -> find all the places ticks might want to be changed, define them as constants via newgrf 17:54:01 <Alberth> nopenttd2.0, basically :p 17:54:10 <andythenorth> Alberth: its NooooTTD 17:54:36 <Alberth> fair enough :) 17:54:43 <andythenorth> from my discussions about daylength, the problem is not “it can’t work ever" 17:54:49 <andythenorth> rather people want different things 17:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:54:58 <andythenorth> one persons bug is another person’s key feature 17:55:03 <andythenorth> more ' 17:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that is at least half the problem 17:55:16 <andythenorth> let newgrf deal with that :P 17:55:42 <Alberth> having it configurable doesn't mean it will work :p 17:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> does really not sound like anything newgrf should be involved with 17:55:54 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:55:56 <andythenorth> plenty of newgrfs don’t work Alberth :D 17:56:00 <Alberth> wb supermop 17:56:14 <supermop_> that one isn't me 17:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> we have a pretender! 17:56:37 <Alberth> or two supermops 17:56:57 <supermop_> supermop is really supermopzuhause 17:57:14 <supermop_> _ is supermopbeiarbeit? 17:57:33 <supermop_> sometimes. sometimes it's the reverse 17:57:38 <Alberth> zumarbeit, I think 17:58:16 *** luxtram has quit IRC 17:58:32 *** luxtram has joined #openttd 17:58:54 <frosch123> beiarbeit is better, but aufarbeit is the cool slang 17:59:18 <_dp_> frosch123, my main complaint about newgrfs is that you need them for configuring core mechanics 17:59:38 <_dp_> frosch123, it's fine to have newgrfs that add something substantial like firs 17:59:59 <_dp_> frosch123, but having newgrf just to configure nogrf server is a huge no 18:00:30 <frosch123> tl;dr; the opposite of what andy wants :p 18:01:06 <_dp_> not quite :p 18:01:29 <andythenorth> _dp_: got an alternate vision? 18:01:35 <frosch123> not? andy wanted to move "no tree growth" to newgrf 18:01:44 <andythenorth> as said before, configuring an MP game is so painful 18:01:55 <andythenorth> I would play more 1hr MP goal games…but no 18:02:06 <andythenorth> 45 mins to make a map? Then Alberth has to go to bed before we finish :) 18:03:39 <Alberth> :) 18:03:40 <_dp_> andythenorth, it doesn't contradict anything. Extensible apis/callbacks/whatever are cool, just keep(move) core settings in(to) core game. 18:04:08 <supermop_> _dp_: trees are already part of core game 18:04:17 <andythenorth> _dp_: which settings? 18:04:23 <supermop_> and there is no way to change them without a patch 18:06:09 <_dp_> andythenorth, basecosts, industry chances, etc. 18:06:32 <_dp_> there is literally no way to modify anything about default industry atm 18:06:48 <_dp_> only replace it in newgrf 18:06:56 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:08:18 <andythenorth> that would a hellish UI, for industries? 18:08:22 <andythenorth> +be 18:08:40 <_dp_> oh, and btw, when thinking about moddable trees please keep in mind savegame explosion :p 18:08:50 <_dp_> it's kind of a big issue actually 18:08:55 <Wolf01> A what? 18:09:19 <supermop_> _dp_: the vanilla industries don't have anything about them to change? 18:09:22 <_dp_> Wolf01, about 3/4 of savegame size are trees 18:09:34 <andythenorth> well…why? :) 18:09:42 <Alberth> too many tiles :p 18:10:01 <Wolf01> _dp_: moving trees to grf won't touch the savegame 18:10:13 <supermop_> _dp_: that's a good reason to allow better/more sensible tree generation styles, rather than the current uncompressible noise 18:10:49 <peter1138> 4.9.0-3-rt-amd64 18:10:59 <peter1138> so linux 18:11:01 <peter1138> so vim 18:11:06 <peter1138> so openttd dev environment 18:11:09 <peter1138> so what am i going to do? 18:11:21 <Wolf01> Did you try to enable the linux subsystem on windows? 18:11:21 <andythenorth> how many bits in the map for trees? 18:11:23 * andythenorth looks 18:11:33 <peter1138> no 18:11:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: tree data is just random data 18:12:12 <_dp_> supermop_, core has to allow those styles first, if things get moved to newgrf like they are now it will only prevent the issue from even being fixed 18:12:31 <_dp_> *ever 18:12:31 <frosch123> on (stupidly) huge maps, the map array has significant size compared to industry/vehicle/... data 18:13:04 <supermop_> _dp_: trees aren't in newgrf at all now, only just sprite replacement 18:13:04 <frosch123> map array however consists mostly of random data and is thus incompressible 18:13:11 <Wolf01> _dp_: there are already those styles on the core, they need to be moved in grf 18:13:20 <frosch123> solution: remove random bits from trees and make it all pseudo-random 18:13:25 <Wolf01> So they can be changed easily 18:13:36 <peter1138> eww 18:14:03 <_dp_> Wolf01, there is nothing in core, just random noise 18:14:16 <_dp_> so frosch123 is right, it has to be de-randomized 18:14:24 * andythenorth counts bits 18:14:24 <supermop_> what are we talking about? 18:14:29 <Alberth> just remove 2048 as size 18:14:35 <peter1138> ^ +1 18:14:37 <_dp_> andythenorth, it's not about bits, they just don't compress well 18:14:40 <peter1138> stupid sizes 18:14:48 <andythenorth> _dp_: expand? :) 18:14:55 <supermop_> if we have tree placement - random and treeplacement - hilltops only 18:15:00 <supermop_> lets say 18:15:07 <supermop_> in the game 18:15:13 <andythenorth> are trees not deterministic? 18:15:22 <andythenorth> or is it that it is poor for compression? 18:15:23 <supermop_> andythenorth: no, i wish they were 18:15:25 * andythenorth confused 18:15:30 <_dp_> andythenorth, even right now if you change current noise to some reasonable pattern it greatly reduces savegame size 18:15:38 <supermop_> worst for compression is noise 18:15:48 <Alberth> compression uses common patterns, and random noise has no common patterns 18:16:37 <supermop_> _dp_: if we have the vanilla random trees, and then add in the game a 2nd, 3rd, nth pattern for placing trees 18:16:53 <supermop_> how do we pick the n+1th pattern? 18:17:09 <frosch123> supermop_: it's all fine if you make the random data static 18:17:16 * andythenorth would have just used a byte on each tile, and let the newgrf figure it out 18:17:20 <frosch123> i.e. something which you can compute no the fly, or recompute on game-load 18:17:27 <supermop_> what if i make a style for placing trees that only plants trees right in front of player tracks 18:17:33 <andythenorth> put some random bits in the tile 18:17:35 <frosch123> but it cannot be part of the gamestate and change on user-interaction 18:17:38 <supermop_> no one would agree to add that to trunk 18:17:38 <_dp_> supermop_, it's not quite about adding patterns, patterns usually suck when drawn on grid (what essentially happens in game) 18:17:58 <andythenorth> list which tiles have which random bytes :P 18:18:11 <Wolf01> _dp_, frosch123: yes, the algorithm picks a random tree in a specific interval, just to not have the entire map covered with a single type of tree, it's not that random, also the algorithm tries to place similar trees near existing ones to create patches of the same type. The problem is that isn't really so effective, so you don't notice it and it seem random. 18:18:16 <supermop_> so Mop's Tree Style can only be used if i learn to fork the game 18:18:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:18:57 <supermop_> currently the game has 'original' "improved" and "no trees" 18:18:57 <frosch123> supermop_: you can also distinguish between user-built and random trees 18:19:07 <frosch123> like: give trees the full state when they are manually places 18:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: but to fork the game, don't you have to throw an SJW fit first? 18:19:20 <frosch123> but give random trees just "this is a random tree", and do not store more 18:19:20 <Alberth> andy, trees have a life state counter, and they are placed not all at the same time, so they differ. Trees get sprinkled over the map, so you get eventually random life counter states at the same time 18:19:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: that’s unneeded though 18:19:35 <Alberth> *same tile 18:19:40 <supermop_> if we want ' even more improved trees' 18:19:43 <andythenorth> one byte is 255 possible states? o_O 18:19:49 <supermop_> do we add that to the core game? 18:19:55 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75305&hilit=tree <- 18:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there should be no shortage of bytes in the map array for trees 18:20:28 <Alberth> 256, but close enough :) 18:20:39 <_dp_> Wolf01, it's not about how random algorithm actually is, what matters is that it's random enough to explode gzip 18:20:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: why is it that i have too look up sjw every time it is used, and then remember looking it up the last time? 18:20:59 <andythenorth> eh just put a random byte in the tile then, and let the newgrf provide up to 256 tree layouts 18:21:07 <andythenorth> it can even use more crap, like game month etc 18:21:13 <Wolf01> _dp_: random or filled by meaningful numbers still the same bits 18:21:14 <supermop_> frosch123: because you are fortunate enough to not live in america 18:21:20 <andythenorth> that’ s quite enough variety 18:21:42 <supermop_> Wolf01: your tree patch is exactly what i want 18:21:44 <supermop_> but 18:21:52 <Wolf01> byte var = 0; or byte var = random(); use the same memory 18:21:58 <andythenorth> we can drop m2 3..0 m5 7..6 m5 2..0 18:22:00 <andythenorth> maybe others 18:22:05 <supermop_> it is essentially a stylistic choice 18:22:18 <supermop_> so why force it to be added as a patch 18:22:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: the trick is to not put the random byte into the tile 18:22:35 <_dp_> Wolf01, not after compression 18:22:39 <frosch123> but to make that byte recomputable whenever it is needed 18:22:56 <supermop_> what if i want a different style for some complex cactus ecosystem i add with catus.grf or whatever 18:22:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: we can’t just store 16 lists of tiles? :P 18:22:57 <frosch123> i..e. it can be random, but it cannot depend on game actions 18:23:00 <Wolf01> _dp_: compression can be done with or without moving to grf 18:23:21 <andythenorth> no, andythenorth can’t count :( 18:23:24 <supermop_> like lets say instead of no trees on mountain tops i want only trees on mountain tops 18:23:26 <andythenorth> 256 lists of tiles :P 18:23:34 <andythenorth> can’t we hash it, based on tile location, height? 18:23:38 <andythenorth> or just x,y 18:23:41 <andythenorth> and the map seed? 18:23:54 <andythenorth> pseudo-random 18:23:58 <frosch123> supermop_: that still does not require storing the result 18:24:05 <frosch123> you can recompute that 18:24:13 <andythenorth> if we hash it, we can recompute 18:24:18 <Wolf01> supermop_: yes, it's a stylistic choice, that's why I'm fine with moving it to grf, also because with a grf you can control better which tree you want at a given height, with core I don't know the difference 18:24:18 <frosch123> the only thing you cannot recompute is whether this tile was bulldozed 50 years ago 18:24:25 * andythenorth is having ‘my first programming’ moment :P 18:24:41 <supermop_> so what i suggest is that in addition to the current built in tree placement rules, we allow grf to add rule sets like Wolf01's 18:24:53 <Wolf01> ^ 18:25:19 * andythenorth suggests dropping the existing rules, and breaking backwards compatibility, but harmlessly 18:25:22 <andythenorth> no kittens die 18:25:27 <supermop_> and i don't see why that is a problem for _dp_ 's use case 18:25:28 <Wolf01> But we should move everything to grf, not just add 18:25:47 <andythenorth> smaller saves = better MP experience? 18:25:52 <supermop_> because the noisiness of it is independent of it being in trunk or grf 18:26:02 <andythenorth> do we have to transmit all the tree crap during the game, or just when getting map? 18:26:02 <_dp_> supermop_, because instead of having one tree placement that explodes saves you'll have infinite number of those 18:26:27 <_dp_> supermop_, one can at least be fixed 18:26:40 <supermop_> _dp_: if every tree placement style is in trunk, they could get used on your server 18:27:16 <Wolf01> _dp_: I can't understand you 18:27:20 <supermop_> if they are in newgrf, then you can chose not to use noiseyrandomtrees.grf on your server 18:27:33 * andythenorth asumes tree state is synced to all clients, so MP has to transmit state for it? 18:27:43 <supermop_> if noiseyrandomtrees in in trunk you are stuck with it 18:28:00 <andythenorth> nah, we just break backwards compatibility 18:28:01 <Alberth> andy: yes, but on join only 18:28:14 <_dp_> supermop_, what i'm saying is make less noisy way of placing trees first and then make it extensible with newgrfs 18:28:33 <andythenorth> just simplify trees 18:28:36 <Wolf01> _dp_: which is what we are talking about 18:28:40 <andythenorth> all will be fine :) 18:28:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: what if treestate is deterministic so you can recompute it on game load 18:28:52 <frosch123> no need to transmit it then 18:28:53 <andythenorth> yes 18:28:55 <_dp_> supermop_, instead of extending bad thing and prevent it from even being fixed because of compatibility 18:29:05 <andythenorth> I was hoping it was another reason this is a GOOD BAD FEATURE 18:29:19 <andythenorth> -> more fun for newgrf authors 18:29:22 <andythenorth> -> smaller saves 18:29:24 <Wolf01> Also what if I manually place random trees on the map? One by one 18:29:27 <andythenorth> -> less state transmitted in MP 18:29:28 <peter1138> treestate can never change? 18:29:29 <andythenorth> win 18:29:44 <supermop_> allowing newgrf tree styles doesn't extend the existing bad tree generators 18:29:52 <andythenorth> no they would get rm-ed 18:30:33 <_dp_> Wolf01, it's fine to have huge save in that case since noone even does it 18:30:47 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 18:30:49 <Alberth> _dp_: you always have a compatibility problem somewhere if you remove such state 18:30:51 <andythenorth> lo zeta 18:30:54 <Zuu> Hello 18:30:54 <Wolf01> _dp_: not a valid reason 18:30:56 <_dp_> *even->ever 18:31:00 <frosch123> Wolf01: store them in the begining and when the player does not check revert them back to random :p 18:31:03 <supermop_> andythenorth: removing original trees would not prevent you from loading save with original random trees 18:31:08 * andythenorth likes andythenorth’s idea best 18:31:17 <andythenorth> supermop_: you just send that data to dev/null 18:31:20 <andythenorth> game changed 18:31:24 <andythenorth> [shrug] 18:31:27 <supermop_> just no new random trees would grow 18:31:41 <andythenorth> omelette, eggs :) 18:31:43 <frosch123> they can still grow 18:31:52 <frosch123> just determinstic 18:32:09 <Wolf01> And making a random seed saved on the game, and remove all the randoms? You can get the same trees even if you dynamite the entire map 18:32:12 <frosch123> the tree on tile (1,1) would always match the tree on tile (1263,592) 18:32:37 <andythenorth> seems fine 18:32:50 <Wolf01> You will just have a "plant tree" button, and it places the tree based on that seed 18:32:54 <andythenorth> yes 18:33:05 <andythenorth> how may bits can we delete then? o_O 18:33:08 <peter1138> none 18:33:14 <andythenorth> bah 18:33:39 <Wolf01> Eh, you still need to keep count of trees for every tile 18:33:43 <andythenorth> why? 18:33:49 <Wolf01> ^ 18:33:52 <andythenorth> you’ve got 255 random values 18:33:54 <peter1138> so you know how many trees are on a tile 18:34:04 <andythenorth> 256 * 18:34:10 <andythenorth> just generate tree patterns based on that 18:34:13 <andythenorth> it’s enough state 18:34:25 <andythenorth> also got tile height, ground type, game date, blah blah 18:34:35 <peter1138> nah, take that out 18:34:46 <peter1138> generate tile height from the seed 18:35:13 <frosch123> landscape may be slightly rough 18:35:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:35:18 <andythenorth> heh 18:35:28 <andythenorth> NoTerrain can sort that out later :P 18:35:30 <andythenorth> probably not 18:35:36 <Wolf01> The problem is that you can change the tile height by playing 18:35:44 <andythenorth> there is that 18:35:47 <andythenorth> maybe that’s a bug :P 18:35:49 <peter1138> and you can change tree state by playing 18:36:03 *** supermop has joined #openttd 18:36:03 <Wolf01> Yes, but you can remove the randomness and calculate it 18:36:07 <andythenorth> another bug peter1138 18:37:02 <peter1138> pseudo random based on some seed and x and y? 18:37:05 <andythenorth> yes 18:37:11 <peter1138> whenever you change a tree... you always get the same tree 18:37:14 <andythenorth> yes 18:37:28 <peter1138> no temporal changes 18:37:31 <peter1138> seems shitty to me 18:37:31 <andythenorth> if you don’t like, it add a newgrf that fixes it :P 18:38:03 <supermop_> i think i would prefer to be able to see different trees on tile x,y over time 18:38:11 <andythenorth> ok, what would be better, excepting current implementation? o_O 18:38:19 <peter1138> why worry? 18:38:24 <peter1138> what's the problem again? 18:38:26 <Wolf01> seed, x, y, game date 18:38:28 <_dp_> supermop_, add date to hash :p 18:38:35 <andythenorth> peter1138: was newgrf trees 18:38:36 <peter1138> date... 18:38:37 <andythenorth> then it...evolved 18:38:44 <peter1138> every changes every time the date changes 18:38:45 <supermop_> but if that means removing random built in function, and then i have to add a new random genrator back in by newgrf, i would be ok with it 18:38:45 <peter1138> cool 18:39:02 <andythenorth> you know how it goes 18:39:06 <Wolf01> Hypnotic maps 18:39:10 <andythenorth> you set off to Dublin, and end up in Kilmarnock 18:39:26 <Wolf01> Change trees at every tick 18:39:37 <supermop_> i am fine if the built in trees are somewhat boring and non-random 18:40:07 <supermop_> Wolf01: make cellular automata out of trees 18:40:16 <supermop_> and have them gliding across the map 18:40:29 <Wolf01> Conway game of life, with OTTD trees 18:40:35 <supermop_> exactly 18:40:51 <_dp_> yep, save issue is not quite about removing randomness but rather moving it from map array to code 18:41:24 <supermop_> _dp_: i just want the abiltiy to add either the bad random, or something else, back in via newgrf 18:41:55 <supermop_> or if not newgrf, some other modular element for landscape pieces 18:42:04 <supermop_> river generation as well 18:42:12 <supermop_> and town placement 18:42:20 <supermop_> even town road pattern 18:42:28 <_dp_> supermop_, that's fine I guess as long as it doesn't prevent core and other grfs from planting them efficiently 18:42:44 <supermop_> the fact that i cannot get a 2x4 street grid without a patch seems crazy to me 18:43:57 <andythenorth> :) 18:44:06 <supermop_> some townsets try to make different styles of towns - like pikkas - but they cant control where those town are 18:44:12 <Wolf01> Brick pattern cities 18:44:36 <andythenorth> peter1138: are all the patches shit? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/index/proj1?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=4 18:44:56 <supermop_> if every town on your map happens to be on top of a height 60 desert mountain, some of those are going to have to be cities anyway 18:45:59 <peter1138> sorry i lost the will to live 18:47:08 <LordAro> frosch123: i rebased my patch queues :) https://gist.github.com/LordAro/421dacee7b6911628849beaabc209f0c https://gist.github.com/LordAro/760063761dc46bacb0c37576c296361a 18:47:49 <_dp_> supermop_, you can get 2x4: disable roads and write gs :p 18:49:04 <frosch123> LordAro: weren't it like 11 before? 18:49:26 <LordAro> frosch123: yeah, you implemented some of them ;) 18:50:02 <LordAro> oh, and 0004 in 421da doesn't actually work 18:50:09 <LordAro> something about static initialisation order 18:50:11 <LordAro> i think 18:50:13 <frosch123> nah, you dropped for example the multibyte thingie 18:50:31 <frosch123> which was btw. blatantly incomplete :p 18:50:37 <LordAro> oh indeed :p 18:50:53 <LordAro> i basically gave up once i realised how many there were :p 18:50:59 <frosch123> same here :) 18:52:02 *** debdog has quit IRC 18:52:30 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:52:40 <supermop_> _dp_: current i turn off towns allowed to build and build them myself sometimes 18:53:27 <supermop_> but with unspooled the maintenance cost gets a little high, so i end up with cities full of dirt roads 18:54:32 <supermop_> only upgrade to asphalt when i want to run a bus down that street 18:54:46 <andythenorth> peter1138: this one’s nice https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6550 18:54:58 *** debdog has joined #openttd 18:54:59 <frosch123> LordAro: btw. how far got your halfbuzz tries? 18:55:12 <frosch123> or did i only dream about you trying stuff? 18:55:25 <frosch123> i though i remembered some configure patch 18:56:01 <LordAro> no further than configuring 18:56:32 <andythenorth> @summon george 18:56:39 <andythenorth> silly DorpsGek 18:56:46 <LordAro> not that i can find any patch now 18:57:27 *** supermop has joined #openttd 18:58:17 <andythenorth> eh, this has a low chance of getting anywhere https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5833 18:58:26 <andythenorth> it’s 3 totally different patches on one FS 18:59:24 <supermop_> andythenorth: nice submission date on that spelling patch 18:59:37 <andythenorth> ha ha 18:59:43 <andythenorth> he did well 19:00:34 <andythenorth> what’s this about? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5857?project=1&string=&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=4&pagenum=2 19:01:26 <andythenorth> wiki link is dead 19:01:27 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Index.php/User:TheJosh/Improved_Shares 19:01:45 <frosch123> i guess "company shares" is one of those topics that makes me regret the project goals :) 19:02:00 <frosch123> can we find some excuse to remove them? 19:02:10 <andythenorth> it’s not a current goal to extend them 19:02:12 <_dp_> andythenorth, judging by lang file 5857 changes shares buying from being in chunks of 25% to 5% 19:02:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: I can’t even say “NoShares" 19:02:34 <andythenorth> if the No thing becomes a dumb joke, it’s no use :P 19:02:34 <supermop_> yeah remove shares 19:02:44 <andythenorth> can anyone explain shares to me? 19:02:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: revert back to "yet another"? 19:02:51 <andythenorth> why don’t I just buy the company? 19:03:06 <supermop_> yet another shareholding mechanism 19:03:07 <_dp_> andythenorth, realism :p 19:03:13 <LordAro> "because TTD" i think 19:03:22 <andythenorth> are shares in TTD? 19:03:27 <LordAro> fairly sure 19:03:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: can we amend? https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#What_are_the_goals_of_the_offical_branch.3F 19:03:35 <LordAro> maybe even in TT 19:03:48 <LordAro> istr that they changed a bit between the two 19:03:52 <supermop_> LordAro: dont recall them in tto 19:03:57 <andythenorth> frosch123 ‘replicate the original gameplay, except where it’s daft’? 19:04:06 <Wolf01> +1 19:04:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the only option to remove an ai company in ttd 19:04:25 <supermop_> what gameplay value did shares contribute? 19:04:42 <andythenorth> reduce it to a ‘buy’ button? 19:04:45 <Wolf01> We started so well by removing the silly AI and add it with external resources 19:04:45 <frosch123> i think i read about people having fun buying ai companies and refactoring the ai nonsense-network 19:04:53 <andythenorth> I used to buy AI 19:05:05 <supermop_> lets force shareholding on MP servers, so you cannot take action in your campany unless a majority of other shareholding players agree 19:05:17 <supermop_> andythboss 19:05:29 <supermop_> andy's boss? 19:05:42 <frosch123> andy -> baldi? 19:05:42 <Wolf01> I think he is the boss 19:05:56 <supermop_> baldythenorth 19:07:52 <andythenorth> :( 19:08:56 <frosch123> supermop_: if you buy 50 of the shares, you can kick the player from the server? 19:09:07 <supermop_> 51 19:09:12 <frosch123> or move to spectators 19:09:55 <supermop_> we need to make it more easy for players with huge cash reserves to make the game miserable for newly formed companies 19:10:17 <andythenorth> closed https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5857 19:10:27 <andythenorth> shares are mostly boring 19:10:39 <_dp_> supermop_, easy enough, just terra all to water :p 19:10:55 <supermop_> yes but we need more 19:11:22 <supermop_> let them buy your company and reassign you to cleaning out the boilers of steam trains 19:12:12 <andythenorth> frosch123 found this one :P https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6315#comment14019 19:12:17 <andythenorth> seems half-implemented? 19:13:03 <frosch123> yes, nothing wrong with the idea, but i gave up trying to teach basic coding skills to random patchers 19:13:33 <frosch123> it were two features, i reimplemented the first one 19:13:47 <andythenorth> this is a bad implementation https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5455#comment12159 19:13:50 <andythenorth> poor UI 19:13:58 <frosch123> maybe the second one can be folded into newlandscape :p 19:14:23 <LordAro> andythenorth: probably wants some sort of selection dropdown? 19:14:29 <LordAro> not sure if that exists 19:14:38 <LordAro> maybe cannibalise some of the settings stuff? 19:15:26 <frosch123> signs have a text filter 19:15:36 <frosch123> imho all lists in ottd should have a text filter 19:15:42 <LordAro> alternatively, maybe comlock's UI? it would be consistent with the map 19:17:35 <frosch123> the other one is consistent with station list :p 19:17:40 <frosch123> but station list is meh as well 19:17:53 <frosch123> i wonder whether i ever used it 19:17:57 <LordAro> mm 19:18:24 <LordAro> and text filters don't allow you to "select" totally disjoint items 19:18:31 <LordAro> which is what's being done here 19:19:01 <frosch123> our text filters do OR 19:19:11 <LordAro> orly 19:19:27 <frosch123> they are not "whole match" 19:20:57 * andythenorth closed 5455 19:21:04 <andythenorth> +1 to text filter, but eh 19:22:04 <andythenorth> about to kill this one https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5799 19:22:09 <andythenorth> last chance to save it :P 19:23:24 <peter1138> right 19:23:28 <peter1138> what were we doing? 19:23:38 <peter1138> ah yes, minecraft 19:23:45 <andythenorth> such Steve 19:24:21 *** supermop has quit IRC 19:25:02 <_dp_> "Squirrel is a high level imperative, object-oriented programming language, designed to be a light-weight scripting language that fits in the size, memory bandwidth, and real-time requirements of applications like video games." 19:25:03 <_dp_> huh 19:25:44 <frosch123> shorten it to "squirrel is like lua, but real objects"? 19:26:21 <_dp_> frosch123, I've no idea what lua is like :) 19:26:54 <frosch123> lua is like c, but with some syntactical tricks to make stuff appear as objects 19:26:58 <Alberth> eveything is a dict 19:27:02 <frosch123> which makes it actually horrible 19:27:29 <Alberth> and querying something non-existing yields 'nil' 19:28:05 <Alberth> counting starts at 1 19:28:56 <frosch123> if you have a instance "i", and a method "m", you can write "i:m()" to call it, but "i.m" is something entirely different 19:29:12 * _dp_ never seen a sane language counting from 1 19:29:29 <frosch123> "i:m(...)" is short for "i.__metatable.m(i, ...)" 19:29:33 *** supermop has joined #openttd 19:29:43 <andythenorth> LordAro I probably shouldn’t just close this? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5722 19:29:43 <frosch123> or something similar 19:30:03 <supermop_> http://imgur.com/a/uUEeF 19:30:14 <supermop_> a thing i designed has become a real thing 19:30:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's on the offical todo list :p 19:31:11 <V453000> supermop_: is that your living room? :P 19:31:14 <LordAro> andythenorth: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 19:31:42 <V453000> XD 19:31:49 <LordAro> andythenorth: i think it could probably be finished relatively easily 19:32:07 <Alberth> looking nice supermop_ 19:34:35 <andythenorth> fixed https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5722#comment14630 19:34:37 <supermop_> V453000: its the cabinetmaker's shop 19:34:40 <supermop_> this is for a client 19:35:07 <supermop_> at the time i felt bad that it was going to be so expensive, but now i wish i had asked her to use a fancier fabric 19:35:12 <milek7> hmm, i was considiering using lua in train simulator, as it looked popular and reasonably fast for scripting language 19:35:16 <milek7> but if counting starts at 1, i need to find something else ;d 19:36:07 <frosch123> milek7: lua is old and has some mainenance drama 19:36:15 <frosch123> squirrel is likely more suitable now 19:36:17 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:36:29 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 19:36:41 <_dp_> lua still seems vastly more popular 19:37:01 <frosch123> php and mysql are also popular 19:37:23 <peter1138> :) 19:37:30 <_dp_> eek 19:38:21 <andythenorth> writing js frameworks is popular 19:38:30 <andythenorth> are at least…frequent :P 19:38:37 <supermop_> it has three hinged compartments for storage 19:38:53 <supermop_> as flat file for art prints 19:39:13 <supermop_> total length is 8', width is 20" 19:39:14 <frosch123> i just had some trouble putting that into context, but was funny 19:39:57 <andythenorth> are / or /s but nvm 19:39:57 <frosch123> i would totally believe if javascript has three hinged compartments for storage 19:40:32 <andythenorth> there is likely a framework for it 19:41:00 <andythenorth> not convinced by this one https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5619 19:41:39 *** supermop has quit IRC 19:42:07 <milek7> hm, how squirrel binds to c/c++? 19:42:20 <milek7> luajit ffi looked really simple 19:42:46 <_dp_> I've no idea what 5619 might be useful for 19:42:50 <frosch123> usually you do it with template magic 19:43:01 <frosch123> but if you care about performance there are other options 19:43:02 *** debdog has quit IRC 19:43:24 <frosch123> at work i recently had to use lua 19:43:54 <andythenorth> multiple hotkeys extends user interface? 19:43:54 <frosch123> my custom binding code has twice the speed of luabridge, but ofc nasty to use 19:44:10 <_dp_> but I'm only playing patched client, so mb it already has some hotkey issue fixed which that patch might address 19:44:21 * andythenorth can’t judge it 19:44:35 <andythenorth> so we have a patch nobody knows need for? 19:44:42 <andythenorth> probably commit it then :) 19:45:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: i believe it does rotation stuff 19:45:34 <frosch123> press "a" for autorail, press "a" again for autoroad 19:45:58 <frosch123> you can bind the same key to multiple things and it rotates between them 19:46:21 <_dp_> frosch123, "Allow multiple hotkey actions assigned to one key if at most one of them is a tool hotkey" 19:46:28 <_dp_> frosch123, doesn't sound like it 19:47:00 <andythenorth> @seen 3298 19:47:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen 3298. 19:47:02 <andythenorth> hmm 19:47:19 <milek7> (btw: this is train simulator with i'm recently playing around http://eu07.pl/) 19:47:20 <frosch123> i don't think usernames can start with a number 19:47:29 <V453000> checking if the bot saw the ticket so you can ditch it? :D 19:47:36 <milek7> extra legacy code ;p 19:47:58 <andythenorth> I’ve emailed 3298 to see if he’ll join irc 19:48:04 <frosch123> milek7: what makes it polish? the vehicles or the interface? 19:48:49 <milek7> vehicles 19:50:31 <milek7> aside from launcher there is almost no interface 19:50:46 *** debdog has joined #openttd 19:51:17 <andythenorth> frosch123 LordAro news filtering? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5709 19:51:22 * _dp_ writing python that writes c++ 19:51:33 <_dp_> coz I too lazy to write c++ myself 19:52:13 <andythenorth> that’s what python’s for, right? 19:52:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: do any of the patches have "filter by currently visible in main viewport"? 19:52:43 <frosch123> (no idea whether it would actualyl turn out usable) 19:53:05 <andythenorth> I suspect not :P https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=filter&project=1&search_name=&search_in_comments=1&search_in_details=1&type%5B%5D=4 19:53:23 <frosch123> alternatively: filter by smallmap :p 19:54:21 * _dp_ haven't seen any news improvement idea that I'd find useful 19:54:34 <andythenorth> what’s this all about then? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5695 19:55:07 <_dp_> smells refactoring 19:55:10 <frosch123> about news: i always wanted to replace the horizontal ticker with a vertical one 19:55:28 <andythenorth> can it blink? 19:55:42 <frosch123> vertical resizeable statusbar, and way faster scrolling compared to horizontal 19:55:51 <andythenorth> ooh a patch from Eddi|zuHause :) https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5300 19:56:05 <andythenorth> “frosch says no" 19:57:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^ if I close that, will you be cross? 19:59:10 <andythenorth> this is on the TODO, I don’t like to close it https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5192 19:59:11 <_dp_> there seem to be enough performance issues with that kind of stuff already 19:59:14 <andythenorth> but it’s from 2012 20:01:41 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 20:02:45 <SimYouLater> Trying to work on TTD-Scale tracks, but tbh I will need a pre-assembled single nml file, if only to trim it down to what I need for the one railtype. 20:03:02 <SimYouLater> In GPL v2 licence. 20:04:41 <supermop_> termite is gpl 20:04:56 <SimYouLater> I tried Nutracks, but it's simply too confusing and no single tracktypes have NML GPL v2 code. 20:05:12 <andythenorth> nml examples 20:05:12 <SimYouLater> Is termite not finescale? 20:05:13 <supermop_> at least i think it is 20:05:26 <andythenorth> termite is not finescale 20:05:29 <supermop_> its normal ttd ish 20:05:36 <supermop_> it has NG included 20:05:36 <SimYouLater> I'll try it. brb... 20:05:42 <supermop_> which is finer 20:05:54 <supermop_> but RAIL and ELRL are normal 20:07:54 <andythenorth> 429 open FS left 20:08:08 *** dirtyroshi has joined #openttd 20:08:46 <LordAro> at what point do you start fixing them instead of closing them? :p 20:08:59 <andythenorth> well 20:09:07 <andythenorth> there were ~840 when I started 20:09:15 <andythenorth> so I reckon maybe 419 20:09:32 <andythenorth> I have tested some patches that appear to work 20:12:10 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:13:19 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:13:32 <SimYouLater> About termite. It doesn't have graphics for RAIL or ELRL. It's programmed to use the existing graphics and doesn't include them. 20:14:04 <andythenorth> let’s see if this compiles https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6275 20:14:33 <andythenorth> fails to apply :( 20:14:40 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6275/getfile/10434/Lifetime%20profit%20V4.patch 20:14:53 <andythenorth> quite a lot of failures 20:15:33 <supermop_> SimYouLater: i think it adds sprites for 3rd rail 20:16:15 <andythenorth> metro 20:16:21 <supermop_> are you looking for code example or graphic example? you could probably erase the 3rd rail from the 3rd rail tracks 20:16:29 <SimYouLater> The thing is, I'm hoping not to have to mess with sprite alignments, considering how long Nutracks apparently had misaligned tracks. 20:16:47 <SimYouLater> I suppose I could. 20:16:58 <SimYouLater> I'm just not really sure how. 20:17:04 <supermop_> also i think swedish tracks is simple and gpl, and adds sprites 20:17:40 <andythenorth> what’s the goal? 20:18:29 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:21:19 *** _3298 has joined #openttd 20:21:40 <andythenorth> is _3298 20:23:19 <_3298> numbers at the start are indeed not allowed (read the log page), but underscores are apparently fine :) 20:24:00 <andythenorth> so what’s this patch for? :) https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5619 20:24:21 * andythenorth is having a Flyspray bonfire 20:24:43 <_3298> well, it came from here: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=66702&start=20#p1086408 20:25:15 <_3298> i noticed your activity on flyspray already 20:25:47 <andythenorth> I think Alberth started reviewing the groups gui patch ;) 20:26:09 <_3298> nice 20:26:39 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 20:26:47 <_3298> looking back, 5619 is more like a solution in search of a problem 20:27:06 <andythenorth> wondered about that :) 20:28:12 <_3298> i wrote it to get around a design flaw in my transparency gui draft, then solved it in another way, and dumped the patch on the bugtracker for others to find 20:28:35 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 20:29:16 <andythenorth> _3298: mind if I close it? o_O 20:29:46 <_3298> it's mostly useless 20:30:04 <SimYouLater> Ugh, I somehow got disconnected. 20:31:03 <SimYouLater> @andythenorth: I'm trying to make a newgrf with a single tracktype, with graphics which imitate the original TTD toyland rails. 20:31:58 <andythenorth> 427 FS left :) 20:33:12 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/show/examples/railtype SimYouLater 20:34:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:37:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 20:37:16 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:37:18 <_3298> andy, if you think 427 is too few, i can add a few new patches ;) 20:37:42 <SimYouLater> How would I download the linked example as one piece? I don't use any special coding meger programs. 20:37:57 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:38:15 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 20:39:05 <andythenorth> _3298: you could fix some of the bugs :P 20:39:25 <andythenorth> SimYouLater: you can’t 20:39:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 20:39:38 <andythenorth> download one at a time, or get a version control app 20:39:57 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:40:09 <_3298> andy: i don't think i have that type of patch available right now :( 20:40:11 <supermop_> SimYouLater: swedish tracks might be one simple nml file 20:40:17 <supermop_> can't remember 20:40:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 20:43:00 <SimYouLater> Well, at least it was small. Downloading tons of files would have been painful... 20:43:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:44:24 <supermop_> ive actually never managed to do a rail grf despite all the MLSS nonsense with depots, and trying to draw Alweg monorail tracks in fits and starts 20:45:20 <supermop_> at first i hated monorails, seeing them as a boondoggle used to forstall real heavy rail construction 20:46:51 <supermop_> but reading up on the alweg system to inform an idea for a monorail grf that would be more hobbled and realistic led me to get charmed by the stupid things 20:47:19 <supermop_> so now i want to make a monorail grf out of genuine appreciation for a very niche product 20:48:22 <supermop_> and now i aim to make a point of riding the Osaka monorail week after next 20:48:50 <supermop_> ( already rode the Tokyo monorail after my 'conversion' back in 2013) 20:49:45 <SimYouLater> @andythenorth: that example has "nml" files containing html code unrelated to what anyone would need 20:50:30 *** supermop has quit IRC 20:50:47 <andythenorth> SimYouLater: whre? 20:50:50 <andythenorth> where? * 20:51:15 <andythenorth> paste https://pastebin.com/ 20:51:23 <SimYouLater> Oh. Apparently you have to click "view". 20:52:04 <SimYouLater> Or similar. Download. 20:55:00 *** Maarten has quit IRC 20:55:33 <V453000> awesome presentation to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY 20:55:56 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:56:05 <andythenorth> V453000: now I can’t go to bed :( 20:56:13 <andythenorth> fucker 20:56:17 <andythenorth> that’s at least 1hr 20:56:19 <V453000> this guy is fucking amazing 20:56:42 <andythenorth> oh it’s new doom, not the original midi track 20:56:54 <V453000> yez 20:56:56 <V453000> iz 20:57:22 <SimYouLater> Thanks, andy, the files will be perfect. 20:57:27 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 21:13:48 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 21:15:34 *** dirtyroshi has quit IRC 21:18:29 *** dirtyroshi has joined #openttd 21:21:31 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:24:32 <supermop_> i assume andy'd life is free of doom 21:24:48 <supermop_> and is all brio, lego, etc 21:26:47 <andythenorth> yup 21:27:08 <supermop_> i had the n64 doom cart 21:27:12 <supermop_> for some reason 21:27:23 <supermop_> seemed like an old game even then 21:27:40 <supermop_> and an odd choice to be on n64 21:30:46 <supermop_> i think it must have been part of some rush for n64 FPS shovelware 21:42:33 <Wolf01> https://www.flickr.com/photos/dvdliu/36575742161/in/feed heh 21:43:05 <andythenorth> nice colours 21:45:00 <peter1138> -- Beta feature -- 21:45:05 <peter1138> This will install Ubuntu on Windows 21:45:06 <peter1138> .. 21:45:10 <peter1138> WCGW? 21:45:42 <frosch123> it could install vim 21:45:56 <Wolf01> You can also wait for the next update and download many different subsystems via store 21:45:58 <supermop_> why is donald the locomotive and mickey the tender? 21:46:36 <Wolf01> Do you see a tender with a beak? 21:48:00 <peter1138> well 21:48:13 <peter1138> how long to wait for the next update? 21:48:19 <Wolf01> Fall 21:49:15 <Wolf01> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/07/28/windows-subsystem-for-linux-out-of-beta/ 21:49:34 <peter1138> too late anyway, it's installing 21:50:13 <Wolf01> I hope it's installing 16.04 and not 14.04 21:50:37 <Wolf01> I had to upgrade manually after creator update 21:55:25 <frosch123> so you can only play textmode ottd? 21:55:32 <Wolf01> :D 21:55:46 <Wolf01> You can install an x server on windows and use that 21:55:59 <frosch123> ok, that was my next question 22:02:09 <peter1138> which one? 22:04:44 <Alkel_U3> textmode is this? https://i.imgur.com/lgRWsbj.jpg 22:05:39 <Alkel_U3> I ws hella surprised that started up when I accidentaly ran non-dedicated-server instalation over ssh once 22:06:00 <Alkel_U3> even more surprised that it actually sorta worked 22:07:35 <peter1138> Cloning into 'openttd'... 22:07:40 <peter1138> This is going to end badly 22:09:34 <LordAro> haha 22:10:47 <peter1138> Wolf01, it is "xenial" 22:11:22 <LordAro> that is indeed 16.04 22:11:32 *** mescalito has quit IRC 22:12:28 <Wolf01> You also need to install that libicu52 stuff 22:12:34 <peter1138> build-dep 22:13:03 *** Zuu has quit IRC 22:20:09 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:20:53 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:21:33 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:25:34 <andythenorth> bed 22:25:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:27:52 <peter1138> build 22:28:05 <peter1138> it building 22:29:21 <peter1138> i miss the days of 12 second compile times 22:29:31 <peter1138> that was before we c++'d it 22:32:46 <frosch123> i was surprised about the vastly different buildtimes lordaro showed on that compile service 22:34:40 <LordAro> single core compilation's taken about 5 min as long as i can remember 22:35:58 <peter1138> OpenTTD requires graphics to function 22:35:59 <peter1138> \o/ 22:36:11 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 22:36:46 <peter1138> hmm, wonder if it's doing anything :p 22:38:12 <peter1138> seems to be stuck on binaries.openttd.org :( 22:40:52 *** debdog has quit IRC 22:42:06 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:42:08 *** debdog has joined #openttd 22:42:21 <peter1138> dbg: [net] [tcp/http] requesting binaries.openttd.org/bananas 22:42:25 <peter1138> is that... right? 22:42:27 <peter1138> it's a 404. 22:43:25 <Wolf01> It works for me, retry, maybe you got a bad mirrir 22:43:29 <Wolf01> *mirror 22:43:46 <LordAro> /bananas/ works fine 22:44:04 <LordAro> /bananas indeed is a 404 22:47:21 <peter1138> oh it's a post to /bananas, and that's ok 22:49:20 <peter1138> but it's not requesting the content 22:50:57 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:52:25 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 22:55:02 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:55:26 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 22:59:00 <Wolf01> https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/08/24/1811217/nodejs-forked-again-over-complaints-of-unresponsive-leadership 22:59:14 <Wolf01> What does that remember me? 23:01:08 *** _3298 has quit IRC 23:03:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:04:51 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 23:05:27 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 23:06:18 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 23:07:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: how should we know? 23:09:25 <Wolf01> OTTD 23:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the only notable instance of someone forking openttd because they aren't getting along with the "leadership" that i can think of is cirdan. 23:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> other forks are mainly patchpacks 23:13:48 <glx> and most patchpack die sooner or later because they are hard to maintain 23:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> then, of course, there's the whole SAC clique who basically "forked" the forum. but that doesn't really directly concerns openttd 23:17:45 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, how is patchpack different from a fork? 23:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: it's not, but the reasons for existing are different 23:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: patchpacks are a subset of forks 23:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, every patch is a fork, until it is applied to trunk 23:19:48 <glx> patchpacks try to follow trunk updates 23:19:58 <Wolf01> A fork could continue development on its own road, while a patchpack is just lot of patches applies to trunk 23:20:15 <frosch123> glx: the current ones are pretty longlived 23:20:30 <glx> and often stop because some merges are very hard 23:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's because trunk doesn't change much :p 23:20:47 <frosch123> i think it's also because they know how to use a vcs 23:20:58 <Wolf01> Just be evil and apply more patches :> 23:21:08 <Wolf01> *merge 23:21:56 <glx> I remember the "fun" it was to help RichK's patchpack when we rewrote the GUI 23:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what was the last big change in trunk? MHL? most relevant patchpacks probably included that already 23:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: gui frameworks are really hard... 23:22:48 <Wolf01> UI rewrite was one of the main reasons why I stopped to develop at that time :P 23:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to get into the same mindset as the framework creator 23:23:39 <_dp_> as I see it the main difference is that some forks(patchpacks) that are meant to coexist with original and some aim to replace it 23:24:16 <glx> the switch to c++ killed many patches too :) 23:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember that, as it was around the time MiniIN died 23:25:13 <glx> hehe 23:26:54 <glx> main problem with MiniIN was its creator not being a coder 23:27:14 <Wolf01> And me providing patches 23:27:36 <glx> so each conflict in a merge was causing a lot of troubles 23:29:21 <glx> when you're the author of the patch you usually know how to easily solve a conflict 23:29:49 <glx> but in a patchpack it's a different story 23:30:29 <glx> and worse when 2 patches touch the same area 23:32:01 *** efess has quit IRC 23:35:27 <peter1138> fopen() doesn't create paths does it... 23:36:09 <peter1138> the base graphics downloader is trying to save to the local content directory 23:36:12 <peter1138> but none of that exists. hmm. 23:40:15 <peter1138> FioCreateDirectory() doesn't check if it worked 23:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: of course there was also the topic of the patchpack growing totally out of the original scope of being like 3 patches (hence "Mini") 23:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (apparently there was a regular "IN" before) 23:43:35 <frosch123> i think you missed the 10 year anniversary of last miniin 23:43:53 *** SimYouLater_ has joined #openttd 23:43:57 <SimYouLater_> Does anyone know how I can get in contact with NekoMaster? Immediately or as soon as possible? I've sent him a very important PM, I'm not at liberty to discuss what, but he needs to see it and hasn't posted in days. 23:44:09 *** SimYouLater_ has quit IRC 23:44:17 *** SimYouLater_ has joined #openttd 23:44:27 <SimYouLater_> Sorry, misspelled my username. 23:44:31 <SimYouLater_> ? 23:44:34 <frosch123> video games do not qualify as "very important" in general 23:44:43 <frosch123> @seen nekomaster 23:44:43 <DorpsGek> frosch123: nekomaster was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 18 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <nekomaster> and 0 kN TE 23:44:51 <frosch123> so, was even here once 23:45:36 <SimYouLater_> In this case, if I told you, something I will not let happen would. Please find them. 23:45:44 <frosch123> it 23:45:48 <frosch123> 's vacation time 23:45:56 <frosch123> maybe he is somewhere traveling 23:46:23 <frosch123> forum pm is your best try 23:46:39 <SimYouLater_> Then please wait for him before you do it over again. You'll know what I'm talking about when/if you spot it. 23:46:46 *** SimYouLater_ has quit IRC 23:51:31 <frosch123> i don't think i ever had an interaction with him, so i leave it to eddi to not do something when you see something 23:51:43 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 23:51:44 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:53:20 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 23:53:58 *** pdoan has quit IRC 23:54:07 <Wolf01> WTF I just read? 23:55:52 *** pdoan has joined #openttd