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00:06:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:13:33 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 00:57:39 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 00:58:22 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 01:05:20 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 01:05:40 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 01:09:32 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 01:57:40 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 02:05:49 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 02:58:13 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 03:05:54 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 03:34:23 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:37:47 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:31:44 *** glx has quit IRC 04:38:13 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 04:45:54 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 04:51:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max https://git.io/JeKwD 04:57:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] timmeh87 commented on issue #7838: random crash https://git.io/JeKL5 05:38:14 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 05:45:57 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 06:38:19 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 06:45:55 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 07:00:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:38:19 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 07:46:02 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 08:31:24 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 08:34:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:35:44 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:38:19 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 08:40:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 08:45:45 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:45:57 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 09:40:01 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 09:48:30 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 09:59:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max https://git.io/JeK6p 10:23:14 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 10:24:41 <Pikka> silly planetmaker ;) 10:28:59 *** Pikka has quit IRC 10:35:50 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:54:36 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:55:50 <andythenorth> yo 10:55:54 <andythenorth> quak etc 11:29:16 <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet? 11:30:35 <andythenorth> it needs to be 11:30:37 <andythenorth> I am hungry 11:30:43 <peter1138> Elevenses? 11:30:52 <andythenorth> eleven-thirtysies 11:31:13 <andythenorth> I have tried drinking a lot of coffee, but it doesn't seem to be filling :P 11:31:55 <andythenorth> porridge? 11:33:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: you are here unusually early? 11:38:32 <frosch123> i have 6 weeks of free time left :p 11:38:45 <LordAro> nice 11:38:46 <frosch123> probably won't do ottd though 11:39:00 * LordAro waves 11:50:26 <peter1138> Yeah, I've been drinking lots of coffee and it just results in lots of peeing. 11:55:58 <andythenorth> keeps it flowing eh? 11:56:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: I found this yesterday, were you grumpy about something? :D https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=735659#p735659 11:56:30 <andythenorth> couldn't decide if the post was satire or not 11:57:43 <frosch123> haha, yes, i always made fun of people who wanted to disable all aspects of the original gameplay 12:00:34 <frosch123> i agreed with rb that the "ttd" in openttd stands for something, so if people want a different game they should write an add-on instead of trying to convince people that the original gameplay is "wrong" or "ill-designed" 12:02:05 <andythenorth> +1 12:02:18 <frosch123> also yes, i considered it funny that people actually used the grf, so some years later i made a second version which actually had settings to make it useful. though it was eventually superceded by ogfx+industries 12:02:32 <peter1138> 2000 downloads... 12:02:37 <andythenorth> it actually isn't, at least not in my version of ogfx+ 12:03:20 <frosch123> Manual Industries 2-r5 253093 times 66724D49 GPL v2 12:03:28 <frosch123> well, bananas stats do not mean anything :) 12:03:29 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 12:03:34 <andythenorth> MOST POPULAR GRF 12:04:14 <peter1138> o_O 12:04:15 <andythenorth> I read some old forum threads this week 12:04:28 <andythenorth> bizarrely, things in forums have not got worse :P 12:04:29 <frosch123> the most weird people are those who call their add-ons "better xyz" 12:04:36 <andythenorth> 'final final' 12:04:51 <frosch123> though i noticed they also exist in other games/communitities 12:05:28 <andythenorth> I discovered some classic DaleStan posts also 12:05:29 <peter1138> Yet Another... 12:05:41 <peter1138> We called everything New for a long time. 12:05:43 <andythenorth> refreshing as they are, I'm not sure DaleStan increased community harmony :P 12:05:50 <andythenorth> Now We Call Things Not 12:06:01 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:06:05 <peter1138> Mm 12:06:19 * andythenorth considers NotLiveries 12:06:33 <frosch123> i think "new xyz" and "yet another xyz" are more reasonable than "better xyz" 12:06:44 <andythenorth> XYZ Revival! 12:06:49 <andythenorth> XYZ Renewal 12:07:09 <frosch123> ah, andy is back to liveries 12:07:12 <andythenorth> things should be named after animals 12:07:13 <peter1138> Don't diss Pikka! 12:07:17 <andythenorth> MoreHeightLevelsCat 12:07:28 <andythenorth> ImprovedFancyTimetablesBear 12:07:43 <andythenorth> PikkaBird 12:07:59 <andythenorth> hmm is my space key broken? 12:08:13 <frosch123> you confused it with shift 12:08:32 <andythenorth> Quite Possibly 12:11:25 *** Etua has joined #openttd 12:11:54 <frosch123> maybe you are the author or vi? 12:13:08 <frosch123> ESC is an important key in vi, it was choosen because it was in a convenient location on the computer vi was developer for: the location where tab is today 12:13:22 <frosch123> now it's just stupid 12:13:25 <andythenorth> my esc key is virtual :( 12:13:34 <andythenorth> because emojibar 12:13:49 <LordAro> ew 12:14:13 <frosch123> only using vi with german keyboard layout is more stupid, since the most used command "search" is on "/", which requires shift plus the key furthest away from both shift keys 12:14:24 <frosch123> so if you have small hands you cannot search with one hand in vi :p 12:14:55 <andythenorth> if I buy a laptop with AMD Radeon Pro 5300M, can I play WOT Blitz on Not The Lowest Settings? 12:15:34 <frosch123> if you buy that laptop, do you still have enough money left for playing blitz? 12:16:59 <frosch123> also would that laptop improve or worsen the ottd fps situation? 12:17:14 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 12:24:11 <andythenorth> due to unique Apple pricing 12:24:33 <andythenorth> I can buy a 16" laptop with more CPU and GPU for the same price as my maxed-out 13" with no GPU :P 12:24:51 <andythenorth> so I'd have the same money for Blitz, but a lot more laptop :P 12:25:19 <andythenorth> but it's 2.2kg instead of 1.5kg 12:25:41 <andythenorth> or something 12:27:33 <frosch123> the last notebook i had at my old job, i think the external power supply unit was heavier than the rest 12:28:26 <andythenorth> USB-C charging is a revelation :P 12:28:27 <frosch123> maybe it was a "portable computer" instead of a notebook 12:40:41 <andythenorth> can I use alt as a modifier key in openttd? 12:41:13 <andythenorth> [for choosing vehicle livery] 12:42:02 <frosch123> alt is usually used by the operating system 12:42:18 <andythenorth> I couldn't see any prior use of it in ottd 12:42:29 <frosch123> yes, ottd always avoided it 12:42:30 <andythenorth> shift is taken 12:42:40 <andythenorth> and ctrl is already used for the Vitally Important Depot Flip 12:45:46 <peter1138> Nearly lunch. 12:46:10 <peter1138> Yeah, alt is often used by the OS. 12:46:30 <peter1138> Or at least the window manager. 12:47:32 * andythenorth wonders if we need depot flip :P 12:48:10 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Aren't those basically the same thing? 12:48:21 <andythenorth> depot flip is a bit 12:48:25 <andythenorth> I want a byte :P 12:48:27 <FLHerne> Both of them are fundamentally "toggle visual appearance" 12:48:31 <FLHerne> UI-wise, I mean 12:48:37 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 12:48:49 <andythenorth> I find it hard to disagree :D 12:49:12 <FLHerne> If you allowed it to cycle through more options, and kept the current behaviour for existing vehicles, no-one would care 12:49:47 <andythenorth> I proposed that already, but I was asked to stop proposing it :) 12:50:02 <FLHerne> By whom, and why? 12:50:26 <FLHerne> Or "stop proposing it, and just write the damn code already?" 12:50:39 <andythenorth> by Eddi, because it's incorrect :) 12:50:56 <andythenorth> but so far there was no better proposal 12:51:03 <FLHerne> I still don't see how 12:51:42 <andythenorth> I have seen mockups for liveries 12:51:43 <peter1138> Vehicle Variants? 12:51:54 <andythenorth> well 12:51:59 <peter1138> Who knows. 12:52:10 <peter1138> YAWTCVG 12:52:26 <andythenorth> I think I de-acronymed that :P 12:52:48 <andythenorth> You Are Welcome To Code Very Goodly 12:52:56 <peter1138> Ooof 12:53:11 <peter1138> Yet Another Way To Change Vehicle Graphics 12:53:15 <andythenorth> oic :) 12:53:22 <andythenorth> the existing liveries feature in newgrf spec isn't great 12:53:28 <andythenorth> and had a ton of FS issues which I closed 12:53:33 <peter1138> Cargo subtypes? 12:53:35 <peter1138> No. 12:53:35 <andythenorth> yes 12:53:48 <andythenorth> and no 12:53:58 <peter1138> My salad lunchbox is only half full. 12:54:04 <andythenorth> because you ate it? 12:54:10 <peter1138> No, my half-lettuce was pretty small today. 12:54:17 <peter1138> (Half a sweet gem) 12:55:24 <peter1138> Still, I have olives & cheese in this salad. 12:55:35 <peter1138> Until about 5 minutes time. 12:55:38 <andythenorth> so...we convert depot flip to a byte not a bit 12:55:50 <andythenorth> put a backwards compatibility shim in for the old var 12:56:03 <peter1138> No. 12:56:04 <andythenorth> and ctrl-click increments it through 16 values, rolling over 12:56:20 <andythenorth> and newgrf author uses mod(x) to handle the cycle 12:56:20 <peter1138> It's too hidden. 12:56:32 <andythenorth> then we extend it to give each value a string 12:56:34 <peter1138> And suffers similar issues to cargo subtypes. 12:56:37 <andythenorth> and put a weird floating menu in 12:56:46 <peter1138> (It's hidden) 12:56:51 <andythenorth> I'm all good with it until the weird floating menu idea 12:56:59 <peter1138> Floating circular menu 12:57:07 <andythenorth> super 12:57:35 <andythenorth> ideally something like Kai's Power Tools https://mprove.de/script/99/kai/_media/high/KPT3TextureExplorer.jpg 12:57:47 <andythenorth> https://mprove.de/script/99/kai/_media/high/KPT3SpheroidDesigner.jpg 12:58:15 <peter1138> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-DLX6068PT-Complete-Batteries-Charger/dp/B06X193WL7/ 12:58:22 <peter1138> Makita's Power Tools 12:58:34 <FLHerne> Is anyone else seeing really weird bugs with joined rail/RV stations in 1.9.3 12:58:43 <andythenorth> no circular menu on the Makita? 12:58:45 <andythenorth> fail 12:59:03 <peter1138> Well, there's a circular saw... 12:59:10 <FLHerne> e.g. I removed the RV stop from a station, and built another 12:59:18 <peter1138> I wonder if that jigsaw works better than mine. 12:59:42 <peter1138> I tried cutting a straight line, with a guide, and the blade just wandered off to the side anyway. 12:59:44 <FLHerne> Which shows as parts of the same station as expected, but when I add an order there it's set to a completely different station 12:59:49 <LordAro> FLHerne: station selection broken? known issue 13:00:13 <peter1138> It was okay free hand as I could twist it away but not a very straight line... 13:00:18 <FLHerne> And if I click the rail station, it just says "Unable to add order..." or so 13:00:21 <peter1138> Probably need a circular saw :p 13:00:25 <FLHerne> [literal "..."[ 13:00:46 <LordAro> FLHerne: fixed in 1.10 13:00:53 <FLHerne> LordAro: Ok :-) 13:00:56 <LordAro> we could've had a 1.9.4, but... 13:01:00 <peter1138> Oh, I broke something in 1.9 eh? 13:01:08 <peter1138> Surprise! 13:02:01 <LordAro> it only got missed from 1.9.3 because the issue was missing the "backport requested" label 13:02:13 <FLHerne> I don't see it in the changelog? https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-releases/1.10.0-beta1/changelog.txt 13:02:19 <LordAro> it had already been fixed in master by the time 1.9.3 was released 13:03:09 <LordAro> FLHerne: probably not 13:04:01 <andythenorth> I did draw a UI for more obvious liveries (or maybe other vehicle options) 13:04:01 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9258/vehicle_options.png 13:04:34 <peter1138> Yes but that's ridiculous. 13:04:46 <andythenorth> it's not hidden? o_O 13:05:10 <andythenorth> also I missed the bottom bevel off all the arrows :( 13:05:12 <andythenorth> details matter 13:06:08 <andythenorth> FLHerne: did you find the liveries in Horse yet? o_O 13:06:16 <peter1138> Oh, it's 10 minutes since I discussed food and I haven't started eating yet. Oops. 13:06:24 <FLHerne> andythenorth: For some of Pikka's tiny wagons, the button would totally hide the vehicle... 13:06:25 <andythenorth> and it's gone 1pm 13:06:35 <peter1138> Yeah. 13:06:46 <andythenorth> I should make a salad 13:06:55 <andythenorth> there are piles of aging salad in my fridge 13:07:01 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't think I've used them (except the randomized freight) 13:07:13 <andythenorth> FLHerne: they're probably...too hidden 13:07:41 <FLHerne> TBF, I've only played a couple of moderate-length Horse games before deciding it's not for me 13:09:19 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 13:14:39 <andythenorth> here...I lovingly made a double-sized video of it https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9533/horse-flip-liveries.m4v 13:14:47 <andythenorth> not quicktime though, bonus 13:15:01 * andythenorth wonders if peter1138 can open .mp4 :P 13:18:49 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 13:21:14 <Samu> can't post a savegame in the forum 13:21:21 <Samu> it's 31 MB 13:21:59 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 13:23:23 <LordAro> Samu: always playing at silly big map sizes does have its disadvantages :p 13:23:58 <Samu> i blame trees 13:24:11 <Samu> they contribute to 75% of the save size, maybe momre 13:25:47 <peter1138> Well that got devoured. 13:26:01 <andythenorth> NotTrees 13:26:13 <peter1138> andythenorth, fake video. It's super-fluid... 13:26:28 <andythenorth> I made it in After Effects 13:26:31 <andythenorth> took me days 13:26:35 <peter1138> Yes. 13:26:36 <andythenorth> or not 13:26:45 <peter1138> Hmm, my mini cinnamon roll thing was a bit stale :/ 13:27:18 <peter1138> Have I got any chocolate? 13:27:31 <peter1138> Caramac. Almost. 13:27:34 <andythenorth> there is often some reserved in the ship 13:27:35 <andythenorth> shop * 13:27:51 <peter1138> The shop is several minutes away. 13:28:54 <peter1138> 0.7 miles! 13:29:29 <peter1138> Anyway, I have caramac. Or indeed a lemon Daim bar. 13:29:39 <peter1138> Or I could just not eat chocolate, it's bad for you. 13:29:53 <LordAro> in high amounts 13:30:14 <peter1138> I could probably eat some. I am only 12½ stone. 13:30:33 <andythenorth> magnesium in chocolate 13:30:35 <andythenorth> good for you 13:31:34 <LordAro> @calc 12.5*14 13:31:34 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 175 13:31:39 <andythenorth> so... 13:31:46 <andythenorth> - we don't have any spare hotkeys 13:31:50 <andythenorth> - ctrl-click is too hidden 13:31:55 <peter1138> 79.5, if you will. 13:32:18 <andythenorth> - my beautifully drawn drop down menu arrows are not loved 13:32:20 <LordAro> well that's less than me 13:32:33 <LordAro> (i think, i don't own any scales) 13:32:37 <andythenorth> - the subtypes route is just weird 13:33:19 <andythenorth> I forgot to eat the salad 13:33:27 <andythenorth> I found some macaroni cheese defrosting 13:33:29 <andythenorth> so I ate it 13:33:35 <LordAro> andythenorth: what's the current UI concern? 13:33:42 <peter1138> That seem sensible. 13:34:01 <andythenorth> waste not want not etc 13:34:14 <andythenorth> which current UI LordAro ? :) 13:34:22 <Samu> Savegame is too big, had to create a multi-file 7z archive. First extract the 2 tars separately, put the extracted files in the same folder, then use 7-zip to extract the 7z.001 and 7z.002 files in one go. 13:34:43 <LordAro> andythenorth: the one you're currently complaining about :p 13:35:12 <andythenorth> it's just not very good, I'll see if I can find a newgrf that uses it 13:35:17 <peter1138> Maybe I'll have this banana. 13:35:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max https://git.io/JeKlG 13:36:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max https://git.io/JeKM6 13:36:41 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=209313 13:36:46 <Samu> crashed right before 5000 ships 13:36:53 <Samu> bad luck 13:37:54 <peter1138> Oh right, 1 banana, 100 carolies. Chocolate would've been less ;( 13:42:39 <andythenorth> LordAro: the current liveries implementation is just a bit clunky and indirect https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9534/liveries-subtypes.m4v 13:42:52 <andythenorth> and it has a few issues reported, e.g. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5590 13:43:17 <LordAro> i see 13:43:59 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5588 13:44:50 <andythenorth> there are a few more 13:45:41 <LordAro> all closed by you :p 13:45:51 <andythenorth> yes 13:46:47 <andythenorth> "for some reason the liveries feature is tied to cargos" 13:47:15 <andythenorth> "kinda odd" 13:51:15 <andythenorth> obvs. I prefer my own odd implementation :P 13:52:41 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 13:53:20 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 13:53:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: the reason why subcargos fail is that they fail to link "same liveries" between "different vehicles" 13:53:58 <frosch123> so autoreplace and sometimes autorenew have a hard time 13:54:03 <andythenorth> yes 13:54:09 <andythenorth> putting aside that the UI is clunky :P 13:54:16 <frosch123> just using another 1 bit or 8 bits does not solve that 13:54:21 <andythenorth> it's logical and all having nice tidy lists and long descriptions :P 13:54:38 <andythenorth> but it's indirect manipulation :P 13:55:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: LiveryTypes! 13:55:43 <andythenorth> 4 char. strings 13:55:52 <andythenorth> we can have a wiki page for them! 13:56:08 <peter1138> :/ 13:56:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: reddit has also solved 'why is daylength hard', in just 2 posts 13:56:42 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/dxs9x7/is_it_possible_to_keep_timetechnology_from/ 13:56:46 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/dxtidr/server_3_does_anyone_else_feel_like_2160_is_an/ 13:59:27 *** Etua has quit IRC 14:01:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: i was unaware of the pikka solution 14:02:12 <frosch123> also "dieselpunk" :p 14:02:33 <andythenorth> yes 14:03:08 <andythenorth> if I hadn't invented this stupid rosters concept in Iron Horse 14:03:15 <andythenorth> I could do something like Pikka or NUTS 14:04:08 <andythenorth> hmm 14:04:20 <andythenorth> frosch123 do liveries *need* to persist across autoreplace? 14:05:29 <frosch123> it's essential for heqs 14:05:40 <frosch123> replace medium length tram with medium length tram 14:06:02 <frosch123> but there are other examples, i just can't remember them :) 14:06:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max https://git.io/JeKDD 14:06:17 <andythenorth> oh dear HEQS :P 14:06:21 <andythenorth> which idiot made that 14:11:31 <frosch123> i guess the other example is something like world-airliners-set 14:11:47 <frosch123> where you pick the livery from dozen of rl companies 14:12:03 <frosch123> and you certainly do not want to reset the selection when changing vehicles 14:13:59 <supermop_work_> andythenorth: daylength appropriate vehicle timeline not your problem to solve 14:14:23 <andythenorth> maybe not, but daylength is becoming a problem 14:14:49 <supermop_work_> as has been said, daylength means at least two contradicting things 14:14:54 <andythenorth> problem / thing /s 14:15:04 <andythenorth> let's not think I'm dramaing on the internet 14:15:57 <supermop_work_> however it manifests, it will have all sets to deal with anyway, not just yours 14:16:55 <supermop_work_> i just don't see a meaningful way for individual sets to help it in some 'designed' way 14:18:57 <andythenorth> hoping it goes away has failed :) 14:19:11 <andythenorth> maybe someone else will fork FIRS and keep it off my plate 14:44:55 <supermop_work_> man what if MUs just had one cab 14:45:20 <supermop_work_> and only get 2 if it's all alone 14:49:32 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_work_: that sounds very wrong to me 15:04:41 <andythenorth> supermop_work_: o_O 15:17:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:50:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:51:50 <andythenorth> so anyway the ctrl-click liveries method fails with articulated vehicles :P 15:52:00 <andythenorth> I could make a video to prove it, but you can imagine :P 15:57:13 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 16:04:08 <andythenorth> so...depot flip articulated consists then? 16:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but not for the reasons you want it :p 16:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i spend 3 weeks in twitch chats, and want to end all sentences with "Kappa"... 16:14:09 <andythenorth> I think :P is kappa 16:15:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:15:31 <andythenorth> if we fix articulated vehicle flip 16:15:47 <andythenorth> I can announce a new 'livery spec' and publish the world's most convoluted nml templates 16:15:54 <andythenorth> 'now featuring 2 liveries' 16:19:17 <frosch123> what happened to the tree-based purchase list? 16:20:24 <andythenorth> I ruined it somehow 16:20:27 <andythenorth> I forget how 16:25:18 <andythenorth> oh yeah 16:25:27 <andythenorth> sort order in buy menu :( 16:26:01 <andythenorth> sorting nested / hidden items is in top 10 worst UI hassles 16:26:41 <frosch123> i think that is solveable, sort in every group, sort the group by the top-score of its members 16:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> sort the vehicles individually, "head" of the group is whatever vehicle comes first 16:27:31 <frosch123> sounds equivalent 16:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. somewhat 16:28:38 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause's seems better defined 16:29:01 <nielsm> since it also handles reverse sorting 16:30:10 <andythenorth> you think it won't get bug reports? 16:30:15 <andythenorth> :) 16:30:26 <andythenorth> I'm 99% certain james103 will report it 16:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't sound like the right metric 16:32:21 <andythenorth> oops admin fail, I should be somewhere else 16:32:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:35:03 <frosch123> probably lunch 16:40:10 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... "double free in /bin/bash" wtf? 16:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> something's seriously falling apart 16:41:18 <frosch123> memtest86 is your friend 16:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> brb (i hope) 16:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i should probably do that 16:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> my /home had some filesystem corruption recently... 16:42:28 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 16:58:47 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:12:05 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 17:12:46 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 17:14:46 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 17:14:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 17:21:44 *** tokai has quit IRC 17:27:06 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:42:41 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 17:46:26 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:04:51 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 18:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so, memtest showed nothing obvious, i'm gonna assume it's my SSD's fault, which also contained some swap 18:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i moved everything off of /home that i could, but something seems to be missing 18:14:58 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:16:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:16:03 <andythenorth> yo 18:16:40 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 18:17:45 <andythenorth> if we did have variants, could we modify var 41? 18:17:47 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Position_and_length_.2840.2C_41.29 18:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a shell command for "find broken links"? 18:17:55 <andythenorth> so that it checks list of IDs 18:18:05 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:18:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, that would be a new var 18:18:55 <andythenorth> could we clone var 41, adding a new var that checks a list of IDs? 18:19:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code https://git.io/JeKFk 18:19:49 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how would you pass it a list of IDs? 18:20:02 <andythenorth> FLHerne fixing my mess :) 18:20:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: stuff registers 18:20:12 <andythenorth> same as always 18:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see that working 18:22:43 <andythenorth> because...? 18:23:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code https://git.io/JeKF3 18:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a parameter cannot contain a list. and nobody uses the textstack properly 18:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so, "find -L -type l" should do what i want? 18:26:46 <andythenorth> isn't it just 'check IDs in registers 0-15' or something? 18:27:05 <andythenorth> I'm sure there's an existing example somewhere, but I can't find it :P 18:27:09 <andythenorth> frosch123 might know 18:29:46 <frosch123> i had a solution for "consist search", but apparently i wrote no text 18:29:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code https://git.io/JeKFk 18:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the only thing that might be practical would be to treat IDs of the same group as equivalent 18:29:55 <FLHerne> [sorry] 18:30:17 <frosch123> anyway, the idea was similar to the procedure call va2: call this va2 for every vehicle in the consist 18:30:36 <andythenorth> maybe it was industry 16-cargos where we tried to handle lists 18:30:40 <frosch123> so you can iterate over the consist, check stuff, and collect in registers 18:30:48 <andythenorth> o_O 18:31:03 <frosch123> like std::transform_reduce 18:32:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the 'same group' solution occurred to me, it just seems less generally useful 18:32:26 <frosch123> it started with that french guy (snail?) asking for vars as ridiculous as those george industry vars 18:32:26 <andythenorth> I already had the multiple IDs case IRL :P 18:32:43 <frosch123> which got extended with more arcane stuff, and in the end noone unsed them 18:32:57 <andythenorth> did I not ask for arcane vars too? :P 18:32:59 <andythenorth> sure I did 18:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that'll be a pain to teach nml? 18:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried like twice to teach it procedure call, failed the same number of times 18:38:12 <andythenorth> oh here was my mockup https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9259/very-groupy.png 18:38:14 <andythenorth> it has issues 18:39:46 <andythenorth> oh here is what I use var 41 for https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9216/var41_stuff.png 18:39:58 <andythenorth> different sprites depending on position 18:40:24 <andythenorth> it's not essential to preserve that across variants, but it would avoid some weird results :P 18:42:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:45:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JeKFD 18:45:45 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:51:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code https://git.io/JeKFk 18:54:16 *** Etua has joined #openttd 18:55:29 <andythenorth> how about checking a list of ideas with a break/continue loop? :P 18:55:39 <andythenorth> and incremementing a counter along the way 18:55:47 <andythenorth> IDs not ideas, wtf am I typing :P 18:56:44 *** Etua has quit IRC 18:58:35 <andythenorth> doesn't the articulated vehicle CB do something similar? 18:58:41 <andythenorth> oh var, not cb though :| 18:58:44 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth 19:13:11 <Wolf01> You look tired 19:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a 6x-var, that calls a callback for each vehicle, passing the parameter as extra_callback_info1 and collating the return values in some way? 19:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or, the parameter as info1, and the current result as info2 19:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> performance of that will be a nightmare? 19:20:38 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 19:26:00 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 19:26:05 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 19:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> grmpf... something prevents plasmashell from running... but i can't find out what 19:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but i really don't want to clean out /home and start over... 19:31:25 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 19:35:58 <frosch123> move your home first, so you can check whether a clean home would even help 19:36:04 <frosch123> or whether the issue is somewhere else 19:36:07 <andythenorth> Big Clive disassembles batteries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBg4ximDrsk 19:36:39 <Wolf01> <frosch123> move your home first, so you can check whether a clean home would even help <- I wish I could do that too... for real 19:37:10 <frosch123> tried a tent? 19:37:42 <Wolf01> I have a camper, but crap still moves with it 19:37:52 <andythenorth> the good bit is around 16mins 19:40:24 <frosch123> ah, silly me... ofc wolf should try a house built with lego 19:40:32 <andythenorth> Wolf01: new technic crane? 19:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and amarok has lost all file statistics... 19:41:42 <Wolf01> Yes, but too small 19:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ... it tends to do that whenever the drive changes 19:50:04 <andythenorth> Wolf01: small is advantage imho 19:50:11 <andythenorth> less stuff :P 19:50:17 * andythenorth has been deleting lego recently 19:53:24 *** julie[m] has joined #openttd 19:54:51 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 20:05:19 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:05:52 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:06:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code https://git.io/JeKND 20:07:46 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:09:54 *** Etua has joined #openttd 20:16:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 20:23:57 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:24:52 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 20:26:33 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 20:32:05 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:39:21 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:45:27 *** Etua has quit IRC 20:52:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:13:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Love that video 21:13:40 <FLHerne> "Okay. Riight. Yeah, not sure the science of this, but this is all going on fire quite rapidly." 21:21:02 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 21:22:56 <FLHerne> "Oh, this isn't necessarily quite good..." 21:23:04 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 21:59:44 <andythenorth> pie dish 22:02:19 <peter1138> I had... vegetables. 22:08:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 22:08:40 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 22:09:31 *** Etua has joined #openttd 22:11:08 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:13:36 <andythenorth> so variants then :P 22:21:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:24:18 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:27:25 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:34:55 *** Etua is now known as Guest8287 22:34:59 *** Etua has joined #openttd 22:36:03 <FLHerne> Can someone explain what the 22:36:38 <FLHerne> ID_1: [ID_2, ID_3] 22:36:59 <FLHerne> format in rail/roadtype tables actually does? 22:39:13 <frosch123> ID_1 is an identifier in the nml source, it does not affect the resulting grf 22:39:25 *** Guest8287 has quit IRC 22:39:27 <frosch123> ID_2, 3... are tracktype labels 22:39:45 <frosch123> ID_1 is assigned to the first one in the list, that exists at runtime 22:40:55 <frosch123> the list is meant to start with specialised track types and gradually list more general types which are available in multple track grfs 22:47:34 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:48:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:48:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:49:24 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:49:29 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 22:49:45 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 22:51:37 <FLHerne> frosch123: Thanks 22:51:50 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 22:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: for example, if you're trying to write a set with 3rd rail powered vehicles, you could do 'thirdrail: ["3DRL", ELRL]' 22:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> then your third rail vehicles will be converted to electric, if no trackset is loaded that provides the "3DRL" type 22:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could do 'thirdrail: ["3DRL"]' 22:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> then the vehicles will get disabled, if the railtype does not exist 22:55:33 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the only point of that would be to avoid to use the cumbersome "3DRL" label throughout your code, as it always has to be given as a string, not an identifier 22:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> (i actually don't remember the exact label they used, only that it started with a "3") 22:57:39 <FLHerne> Ok 22:57:56 <FLHerne> Now I just can't see how that's actually implemented in nml 22:58:30 <FLHerne> RailtypeListProp.write() [for the vehicle properties] just writes identifiers 22:58:46 <FLHerne> I guess it must be lowered somewhere 22:59:06 <FLHerne> But I can't find any reference to the railtype table from outside that 22:59:26 <FLHerne> s/that/the code responsible for writing the table itself/ 23:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: iirc it writes a single RTT into the file, and writes the correct labels into it using action6 23:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: the vehicles themselves only write indexes into this RTT 23:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which are independent from which railtype is actually chosen 23:03:38 <FLHerne> Sorry, I still don't get it 23:04:30 <FLHerne> So for your example, I could have in the vehicle properties `compatible_railtype_list: [thirdrail]` ? 23:06:47 <FLHerne> (it would be nice if the examples actually had an example) 23:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:07:19 <FLHerne> But RailtypeListProp.write() only writes a list of 4-byte labels 23:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and nml treats the "thirdrail" there as "write the numerical position in the RTT" 23:07:39 <FLHerne> So what label(s) does that end up getting mapped to, and how? 23:07:43 <FLHerne> Ah 23:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the vehicles don't use the labels 23:08:26 <FLHerne> I think I need to read the NFO specs more 23:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's tricky sometimes, yes :) 23:08:52 <frosch123> FLHerne: the nml table is not written 1:1 into the grf 23:09:01 <frosch123> the list is transformed into an if-cascade 23:09:20 <frosch123> checking existence of each label, and then remembering the result 23:09:21 *** Etua has quit IRC 23:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: if your RTT is "RAIL, ELRL, thirdrail : [blah]" then for the remainder of the GRF, the "value" of RAIL is 0, ELRL is 1 and thirdrail is 2 23:14:29 *** zvxb has quit IRC 23:17:16 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:18:45 <FLHerne> Oh, I see why I couldn't find it 23:19:16 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:19:26 <FLHerne> All the constant ID lowering just uses const_list, which the railtype IDs get folded into...? 23:19:57 <FLHerne> So it'll cheerfully accept any random ID referring to something else entirely 23:20:10 <FLHerne> There doesn't even seem to be a range check 23:20:18 * FLHerne tries 23:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i've had some creative uses of these IDs in #7000 23:25:48 <FLHerne> Yep, I can have a vehicle with road type CLIMATE_TOYLAND 23:25:52 <FLHerne> Because why the hell not 23:26:32 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 23:28:51 <glx> I tried to see what should be done for nml#57, seems it won't be easy 23:29:37 <glx> parsing complicates things 23:30:14 <FLHerne> I'm increasingly getting the impression that nmlc internals are a bit of a mess :-/ 23:30:47 <glx> MAX_UINT32 is parsed as -1 23:31:18 *** Etua has joined #openttd 23:33:52 <FLHerne> From a byte point of view, that should be equivalent? 23:34:11 <FLHerne> Presumably if OTTD crashes it's being treated as a signed integer 23:34:23 <FLHerne> so MAX_UINT32 would be out-of-range also 23:34:45 <glx> and ConstantNumeric are truncated to int32, so not even range checked 23:35:16 <glx> no it's treated as unsigned in OTTD 23:35:26 <glx> the crash is because min > max 23:35:36 <glx> so empty dropdown 23:36:02 <glx> for MAX_UINT32 to 1 ;) 23:36:21 <glx> but on OTTD side it's easy to fix 23:37:30 <glx> there are other issues on OTTD, it's impossible to enter values above MAX_INT32 in the GUI 23:37:47 <glx> unless you click on the arrow 23:40:13 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 23:48:15 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:48:30 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:55:01 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 23:56:21 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 23:57:14 *** Etua has quit IRC