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00:58:41 *** syr has quit IRC 00:59:15 *** syr has joined #openttd 01:37:32 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 01:45:32 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 01:47:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B 01:52:28 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:00:21 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:22:50 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 02:23:49 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 02:40:21 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:43:03 *** cHawk has quit IRC 02:43:46 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:55:52 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 02:59:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:03:14 *** Laedek has quit IRC 03:05:49 *** glx has quit IRC 03:11:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 03:32:38 *** adikt has quit IRC 03:34:03 *** adikt has joined #openttd 03:35:50 *** adikt has quit IRC 04:21:41 *** adikt has joined #openttd 04:43:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] serprinss commented on issue #7826: Mac OS binaries are unsigned https://git.io/Je2bo 04:56:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JfecK 05:28:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:30:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:42:28 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:03:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:15:55 <arikover> Good morning to everybody. 06:26:23 *** TinoDidriksen has quit IRC 06:27:15 *** arikover has quit IRC 06:29:25 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:31:12 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd 06:32:47 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 06:35:40 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 07:05:45 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:06:03 <Samu> hi 07:51:35 <TrueBrain> nielsm : had a nice conversation today about Dutch law. Seems we can create a legal entity here to handle all these things. The only drawback is that it will always need to be registered to a Dutch location; otherwise it can be as international as we want 07:52:13 <TrueBrain> Costs to setup are around 300 euros, one time fee, and they help with setting up all the legal bla 07:52:46 <TrueBrain> It will be VAT exempt and nobody is allowed to be employed ;) 07:53:18 <andythenorth> :) 07:53:21 <andythenorth> that's helpful 07:53:23 <TrueBrain> The advise is to have 3 people in the board; they need to proof their identity to the notary 07:53:38 <andythenorth> my entire life is proof of ID 07:53:45 <andythenorth> every week I have to do it for something 07:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you prove your identity over the internet? 07:54:05 <andythenorth> serious answer? 07:54:17 <TrueBrain> I guess Eddi|zuHause doesn't have legal documents :p 07:54:17 <andythenorth> get it notarised by a local lawyer for statutory fee 07:54:41 <TrueBrain> Corona is really helping here btw 07:54:54 <TrueBrain> As you are not allowed to drop by ;) 07:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so i would go to a notary here, let him copy my documents, and send that over to your notary? 07:55:37 <andythenorth> yes 07:55:51 <TrueBrain> The only thing he was unsure of, what happens with international law .. but I consider that to be an unlikely issue 07:56:23 <TrueBrain> Owh, and we should aim to put down we are not making money with this Stichting. 07:56:46 <andythenorth> "we are not making money with this Stichting" 07:56:51 * andythenorth did it 07:57:00 <TrueBrain> Yeah, so no paid service via that Stichting 07:57:16 <TrueBrain> So no asking money for content service ;) 07:57:27 <andythenorth> oof 07:57:28 <TrueBrain> Well, out of the name of the stichting ofc 07:57:52 <TrueBrain> Anyone is free to host his own BaNaNaS and ask money for that, ofc 07:58:00 <TrueBrain> As long as you follow GPLv2 07:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wished for an openttdcoop bananas that would just put up all the old stuff from the grf pack, that is technically legal to distribute but the regular bananas is insisting of an actual author to upload it 07:59:42 <TrueBrain> planetmaker , LordAro , peter1138 : highlight to read -10min till now :) 08:00:10 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause : with the new codebase you can 08:00:23 <TrueBrain> Well, and we need support for it in the client 08:00:36 <TrueBrain> But I am all for such setups 08:01:02 <andythenorth> does that mean I can distribute my coin miner on my own bananas? :) 08:01:08 <TrueBrain> Let reddit run their own setup; would only improve the enjoyment of the many 08:01:16 <TrueBrain> Yes, you can 08:01:23 <andythenorth> newgrf action 15: resolve proof of work 08:02:09 <TrueBrain> Anyway, back to the legal bla: I have to check with our fiscal and with a bank if there are any additional things I have to worry about, but otherwise this seems to be the way to get certificates 08:02:20 <TrueBrain> And get in Steam 08:02:41 <TrueBrain> Well, I have to check if they know about stichtingen 08:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming for confirming VAT exemption you need to do a fiscal report like once a year? 08:03:56 <TrueBrain> Just certificates are pretty expensive to pay every year .. minor details, I guess 08:04:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause : no; we basically say we only make N euros in donations a year and they say: please never tell us anything about this ever again 08:05:16 <TrueBrain> The only requirement is an Excel every year with what comes in and what goes out 08:05:20 <TrueBrain> Like .. that is it 08:06:28 <TrueBrain> Right, back to work. We talk again tonight about this I guess :D 08:06:34 <andythenorth> ++ 08:24:54 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:17:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DerDakon commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/JfeE0 09:24:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DerDakon commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/JfeEh 09:28:45 <peter1138> andythenorth, why do you think OpenTTD is already so slow on OSX? :D 09:30:29 <andythenorth> BTC 09:35:53 <peter1138> And... I've been sent chocolate. Hmm. 09:36:35 <andythenorth> that's nice :) 09:46:25 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 09:52:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on issue #8077: Toll https://git.io/JvhZE 09:58:24 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 10:08:25 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 10:23:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:24:00 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:24:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:30:13 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:39:03 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 10:44:41 *** cHawk has quit IRC 11:05:55 <milek7> so about that cheat window.. 11:05:57 <milek7> does PR to move bulldozer, tunnel crossing and aircraft crashing out of it into regular settings 11:06:01 <milek7> have any chance of success? 11:08:30 <Samu> demolishing industries sounds imba 11:09:31 <Samu> unless it costs a ton, even then... 11:13:38 <Samu> my bool skills are failing me 11:14:32 <Samu> !(a && b) is the same as !a || !b? 11:35:54 <andythenorth> do it with 1s and 0s and see? 11:36:46 <andythenorth> I think your first expression returns True in 3 out of 4 cases 11:37:11 <andythenorth> but I did not pay attention properly to boolean logic :P 11:45:45 <milek7> Samu: yes, it even has fancy name 11:45:50 <milek7> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan%27s_laws 11:47:01 *** k-man_ has joined #openttd 11:53:33 *** k-man has quit IRC 11:54:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on issue #8077: Toll https://git.io/JvhZE 13:31:55 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:54:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7826: Mac OS binaries are unsigned https://git.io/Je2bo 14:02:21 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:02:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:43:05 *** luaduck has quit IRC 14:46:27 <Samu> wow, is it just me or apple users are completely... oh well, i'm not gonna say it 14:48:21 <Samu> that topic reads as agressive 14:48:38 <Samu> I couldn't put up with those users 14:48:56 <peter1138> What topic? 14:49:04 <Samu> 7826 14:49:30 *** luaduck has joined #openttd 14:55:07 <andythenorth> certs 14:56:15 <andythenorth> you're conflating 'apple user' and 'non-native English speaker' 14:56:30 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 14:56:45 <andythenorth> or 'apple user' and 'entitled' 14:56:55 <andythenorth> they may fall in the same venn diagrams sometimes 14:57:55 <andythenorth> but it's a logical fallacy to take one irritatingly demandingly player and generalise about users of the second largest OS 14:58:03 <andythenorth> (consumer OS) 14:59:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened issue #8086: Ship is said to be lost when it find its way just fine https://git.io/JfeX5 15:02:02 <LordAro> told you we should've fixed that 15:02:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8086: Ship is said to be lost when it find its way just fine https://git.io/JfeX5 15:02:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8086: Ship is said to be lost when it find its way just fine https://git.io/JfeX5 15:05:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8086: Ship is said to be lost when it find its way just fine https://git.io/JfeX5 15:30:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:30:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 15:30:58 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:32:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:50:58 <TrueBrain> right, I guess that is the other choice .. join an US-based company to handle our legal affairs .. not sure I personally like that, but it is not only up to me :D 15:55:01 <andythenorth> I am potato / potato either 16:00:06 <TrueBrain> there are some drawbacks for a mostly (all?) europe-based dev-team to register under an US flag 16:00:22 <TrueBrain> nothing against US, well, on a personal note I might, but from a legal point of view, it is a bit more difficult 16:00:40 <TrueBrain> I would prefer an entity that complies with EU regulation 16:02:29 <TrueBrain> ugh, Steam wants a bank number for the legal entity ... that costs ~100 euro a year 16:02:34 <TrueBrain> this is getting expensive this way :P 16:02:49 <andythenorth> ouch 16:03:24 <TrueBrain> Apple was .. 100 euro a year? 16:03:30 <TrueBrain> Certificate is ~200 euro a year 16:03:35 <milek7> bank account costs so much? 16:03:50 <TrueBrain> In The Netherlands it does; well, it is not much, just for the way we would use it, it is 16:04:47 <TrueBrain> it is expensive, to get all your binaries signed properly 16:05:59 <LordAro> i'd vote EU as well 16:06:29 <LordAro> (b-word notwithstanding) 16:07:50 <TrueBrain> I don't get that last sentence, sorry :P Sounds like you were having a stroke :D 16:09:35 <LordAro> it's a real word! 16:09:40 <Samu> locks are really a headache for pathfinding 16:09:46 <LordAro> "in spite of" 16:09:57 <LordAro> it's one of those English words where they forgot to add the spaces 16:10:15 <TrueBrain> I don't get the "b-word" part :P 16:10:18 <LordAro> brexit :p 16:10:38 <TrueBrain> ah :D 16:10:44 <TrueBrain> sorry ... I am not into that slang 16:10:53 <TrueBrain> it is not hurting me, so who cares :P 16:11:16 <Samu> finding a canal route and using locks is one thing 16:11:24 <andythenorth> what is brexit? 16:11:45 <LordAro> andythenorth: it's all done right? not in the news anymore :p 16:11:48 <Samu> preventing future routes from blocking previous routes is another, and locks are really great at complicating things 16:12:27 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:12:39 <TrueBrain> LordAro: did you read what I wrote earlier about a legal form we could take? 16:13:25 <LordAro> i did 16:13:37 <LordAro> i didn't necessarily understand all of it, but i did read it 16:13:48 <TrueBrain> :D Well, I tried to use simple words :P 16:13:57 <TrueBrain> I guess we need some form of agreement if we want to go that route or not 16:14:20 <TrueBrain> well, now I think about it, maybe we should also write down what the yearly cost is going to be, if we want to sign our binaries ... 16:14:29 <TrueBrain> doing Open Source stuff is becoming rather expensive 16:14:46 <andythenorth> oof 16:14:58 <LordAro> has anyone investigated significantly how/if other similar projects do it? 16:15:06 <andythenorth> maybe we offer a premium .99 / year signed binary service :P 16:15:53 <TrueBrain> LordAro: from what I have seen, there are 3 groups: 1) they don't care, 2) they did it under the name of a personal developer (in that case the price drops a bit too), 3) they used a shell-company as the one suggested in the issue-tracker 16:16:12 <TrueBrain> well, and the 4th, that use some form of LLC 16:16:45 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/u93oTBl.png - technically, route 52 and 11 aren't blocked 16:18:35 <TrueBrain> 3) and 4) are just expensive it seems .. I cannot find anything writing it to be cheaper for OSS 16:19:08 <TrueBrain> but I invite anyone to also use google to find more data about it :) Lets avoid it being a one-sided told story :) 16:19:42 <andythenorth> everything I found pointed to 3 or 4 16:19:45 <TrueBrain> maybe we need a place to document this :) 16:19:52 <andythenorth> except that an org like Apache might help us 16:19:55 <milek7> it seems plain OV cert helps for antiviruses https://i.imgur.com/9PyDflt.png 16:20:08 <andythenorth> I might have written something somewhere, I will look 16:20:19 <milek7> but windows smartscreen complains anyway 16:20:32 <TrueBrain> milek7: even the cheapest code signing certificate is still 100+ euro a year 16:20:40 <TrueBrain> so one way or the other, this is not cheap 16:20:50 <TrueBrain> it will be on-par with the infra-costs :D 16:20:53 <milek7> this is that certum cheaper one 16:21:05 <TrueBrain> on a non-personal account? 16:21:10 <milek7> on personal 16:21:21 <TrueBrain> and we are back to that ;) I thought we dismissed that clearly :) 16:21:30 <TrueBrain> so that is 2) 16:21:32 <TrueBrain> and 2) is cheaper 16:21:35 <TrueBrain> 3) an 4) are expensive 16:21:46 <milek7> but I guess I'm not allowed to publish that signed binary (as I got that certificate for different OSS project) 16:22:25 <TrueBrain> I also think we don't allow it; not sure we want to explain to people why there is a random name on their binaries :D (no offense; I appreciate you thinking with us) 16:22:59 <TrueBrain> okay, lets create a gist with facts .. this is too much bits and pieces 16:23:24 <andythenorth> TrueBrain https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184190125724569611 https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184192842052329472 https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184198827827437570 16:23:28 <andythenorth> that was all I had I think 16:23:37 <andythenorth> I thought there was a reddit thread 16:25:17 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/did7lo/help_wanted_setting_up_the_openttd_foundation_in/ 16:26:06 <TrueBrain> well, that thread is useless :P 16:26:17 <andythenorth> it's what it is :P 16:37:01 <TrueBrain> we need a letsencrypt for code signing tbh 16:37:09 <TrueBrain> it is kinda bullshit how this is now organized 16:37:16 <TrueBrain> bit the HTTPS of 3 years ago 16:37:40 <TrueBrain> how far does self-signing get you 16:37:41 <TrueBrain> ? 16:37:51 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/5qf6f7/open_source_code_signing_expenses/ 16:38:26 <andythenorth> dunno what this is https://www.codenotary.io/with-codenotary-you-never-have-to-pay-for-code-signing-certificates-again/ 16:38:43 <andythenorth> large use of tag cloud in the page makes me suspicious it's bollocks 16:39:42 <Heiki> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple should be much easier for everyone 16:40:11 <milek7> andythenorth: it seems some other signing, not related with authenticode 16:40:32 <andythenorth> it's a blockchain scam thing 16:40:39 <andythenorth> I was initially fooled :P 16:42:54 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/d8ec26316a4c4b9f5d6e0b4e84d96db7 16:42:57 <TrueBrain> a start 16:43:00 <TrueBrain> still writing things down 16:44:32 <andythenorth> a blog post! 16:44:39 <milek7> https://www.ksoftware.net/code-signing-certificates/ 16:44:44 <milek7> probably cheapest for ov 16:45:18 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:50:29 *** Thunder has joined #openttd 16:51:00 *** Thunder has left #openttd 16:55:21 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://techcultivation.org/ <- isn't that more or less the same as sfconservancy, but european? 16:55:55 <TrueBrain> last we checked they we not really accepting projects 16:56:10 <TrueBrain> as in, it was only ideas on paper, as far 16:57:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: can we talk you into making bananas layouting? or should i ask @website-people ? 16:58:01 <andythenorth> ask first 16:58:08 <andythenorth> I will do it if nobody else will 16:58:18 <andythenorth> I am refactoring a website currently :P 16:58:33 <andythenorth> don't want 2 in my head at once 17:00:51 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/d8ec26316a4c4b9f5d6e0b4e84d96db7 <- updated 17:00:55 <TrueBrain> I think that is all that was in my head 17:01:25 <milek7> "we cannot remove people who uploaded OpenTTD and charge money for that" 17:01:31 <milek7> I guess you need trademark to do that? 17:02:09 <TrueBrain> someone looked into this; cannot remember the details 17:02:22 <TrueBrain> but I believe it came down to: you cannot proof you are OpenTTD 17:02:34 <TrueBrain> so my assumption was, once you have a legal entity, you can 17:03:02 <TrueBrain> I removed that sentence for now, asI don't know the details 17:03:16 <andythenorth> TrueBrain other orgs that might have advices https://twitter.com/fsfe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Law_Center 17:03:27 <andythenorth> otherwise looks good to me thanks 17:03:29 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how is that useful to me? :) 17:03:50 <TrueBrain> so many people "might" have advise :P But until someone is going to get it, I am not sure what to do with it :D 17:04:09 <andythenorth> all in one place no? 17:04:29 <andythenorth> I already went round the 'who can help' dance in November last year, and concluded I didn't know what to do next 17:04:32 <TrueBrain> put down a comment for that :) 17:04:37 <andythenorth> sure 17:04:40 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 17:04:46 <TrueBrain> not sure how to put it anywhere in this story :P 17:06:31 <TrueBrain> basically, I wrote down the information we did gather that added value. All the links and people "WHAT IS GOING ON?!", I left out :D 17:08:05 <andythenorth> ok so if we had to make only a binary choice, we have 17:08:25 <andythenorth> (A) go the known route Stichting, but we may have high costs and it's unknown how we sustain it 17:08:38 <andythenorth> (B) piss around seeing if we can get help, which is unknown 17:09:23 * andythenorth should go back to websiting 17:09:38 * andythenorth wonders how many 'send a mail' scripts are actually needed for 1 website, 4 seems like a lot 17:10:39 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: in general, there are many unknowns 17:10:51 <andythenorth> but we know some of them 17:11:37 <andythenorth> but we could be spending 00 / year to do this? 17:12:05 <andythenorth> maybe 0 17:12:55 <TrueBrain> 84 + 99 + 120 is the current sum 17:13:02 <TrueBrain> @calc 84 + 99 + 120 17:13:02 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 303 17:13:05 <TrueBrain> so ~300 euro 17:13:15 <TrueBrain> which is not -that- bad 17:13:36 <TrueBrain> I had to fix some things in my text, as Apple is a yearly fee :P 17:14:20 <andythenorth> oops, 503ed a live site 17:14:21 <andythenorth> BRB 17:14:27 <TrueBrain> lolz 17:14:51 <TrueBrain> frosch123 / LordAro / planetmaker / orudge : https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/d8ec26316a4c4b9f5d6e0b4e84d96db7 <- we could use opinions 17:21:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7826: Mac OS binaries are unsigned https://git.io/Je2bo 17:21:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8056: OpenTTD's Windows installer should be signed https://git.io/Jvbkk 17:25:33 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 17:25:49 <milek7> time flies fast, letsencrypt launched in 2016 ;) 17:26:10 <TrueBrain> yup 17:26:17 <TrueBrain> took them a while before they got accepted 17:26:21 <TrueBrain> and changed the world ever since 17:26:32 <TrueBrain> SSL.com is also pretty cheap in their code signing certs 17:26:46 <frosch123> https://github.com/orgs/OpenTTD/teams/website-people/discussions/1 <- anything missing? 17:27:24 <milek7> I meant it as a nitpick to 'HTTPS certificate felt 3 years ago', as 3 years ago LE already existed 17:27:33 <TrueBrain> nice frosch123 :) 17:27:44 <TrueBrain> milek7: yes, but 3 years ago it was not mainstream yet 17:27:47 <TrueBrain> and it still felt like shit 17:27:58 <TrueBrain> so if you want to nitpick, make sure you nitpick about the right things :) 17:28:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you get a notification from gh about my post? or do i need to explicit highlight members? 17:28:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we might want to accept all these PRs after a quick review, and fix things in the repo; might make contributions easier too 17:33:55 <frosch123> right, i have 2 API questions left 17:35:24 <frosch123> 1) minor issue with /new-package: swagger says the response is "upload_token" while everything else uses dashes. the implementation actually delivers just "token". what do you want? 17:35:42 <TrueBrain> I tried to fix all the _ :P 17:35:45 <TrueBrain> they should for sure be - 17:35:59 <TrueBrain> hmm .. upload-token sounds better? What do you think? 17:36:01 <frosch123> so "token" or "upload-token" ? 17:36:03 <TrueBrain> I don't really care .. 17:36:09 <TrueBrain> change the API or change the specs 17:36:11 <TrueBrain> basically 17:36:36 <frosch123> in the get/put that follow, it says {upload_token}, but that is jsut grammar 17:36:49 <TrueBrain> change it all to upload-token? 17:36:58 <frosch123> there are many tokens, so explicit "upload-token" is likely better 17:37:48 <frosch123> 2) I need a "/user/info" endpoint or something, that says authenticated yes/no and reports the display-name 17:38:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeQU 17:38:49 <TrueBrain> I have been thinking about something similar. But why the first? 17:38:59 <TrueBrain> you know someone is authenticated when he gets back on your redirect-url 17:39:15 <TrueBrain> or to see ifthe token is still valid? 17:39:25 <TrueBrain> I had that issue with the CLI .. I just picked a random URL for now :) 17:40:00 <andythenorth> oof I really broke a website 17:40:09 <andythenorth> recursive url broken crapness 17:40:17 <TrueBrain> owh, frosch123 , query parameters are all with _, because they is common .. lol .. not sure why I did that. Shall we make them all - ? 17:40:21 <TrueBrain> so also? content-type=blabla ? 17:40:30 <frosch123> ok, ignore the first, it is just a special return value, since getting display-name obviously needs authentication 17:40:30 <andythenorth> frosch123 I get a GH notification from that yes 17:42:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: only ? parameters have a name, and none of them has _ 17:42:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: ok, let's see whether someone responds :) 17:43:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i lied, /user/login has a redirect_url 17:44:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: '/package/{content_type}': 17:44:18 <TrueBrain> owh, those are not query-parameters, ugh 17:44:20 <TrueBrain> it is in the URL 17:44:26 <frosch123> yes, their name does not matter 17:44:33 <TrueBrain> yeah, but I guess I fix them all to - 17:44:44 <TrueBrain> also redirect-url 17:44:54 <TrueBrain> and I am going to change it into redirect-uri 17:44:56 <TrueBrain> as that is more correct :D 17:45:36 <TrueBrain> well, correct I dont care about .. more in line with OAuth 17:46:37 <TrueBrain> https://www.oauth.com/oauth2-servers/redirect-uris/redirect-uri-validation/ <- funny how the URL disagrees with the content :D 17:46:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeQ4 17:49:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeQz 17:51:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: /user or /user/info 17:51:07 <TrueBrain> ? 17:51:41 <frosch123> /user 17:51:51 <TrueBrain> added in the API specs 17:51:54 <TrueBrain> going to add it inthe code now 17:52:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeQ9 17:56:44 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:57:32 <TrueBrain> owh, those archived 17:57:33 <TrueBrain> gotcha 17:57:39 <TrueBrain> sorry frosch123 , yes :) They are filtered :) 17:58:08 <TrueBrain> that also makes them invisible .. 17:58:11 <TrueBrain> not sure that is the intend 17:58:33 <TrueBrain> hmm .. now I reread that function .. maybe they should just be in there,but without any versions 17:58:37 <TrueBrain> that at least means you know it once was there 17:58:52 <frosch123> they are listed on package/self 17:59:12 <frosch123> it's okay that they are not listed regulary, my intention was to filter them away :) 17:59:16 <TrueBrain> if you are the owner 17:59:20 <TrueBrain> k k 17:59:21 <TrueBrain> cool 18:00:05 <frosch123> if you know the unique id, you can also access the package page, and it will tell you tht the item is archived 18:01:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 18:01:26 <TrueBrain> ^^ the changes about _ to - 18:01:29 <TrueBrain> and a /user endpoint 18:01:33 <TrueBrain> I did not address the "" thingy 18:01:38 <TrueBrain> and this is not yet on staging ;) 18:01:57 <TrueBrain> I too would like these PRs merged; even if we didn't really review the code yet. Makes the flow of working a lot easier :D 18:02:44 <frosch123> you missed authorize_url and bearer_token 18:02:50 <TrueBrain> no? 18:02:57 <TrueBrain> I fixed those .... I think 18:03:18 <TrueBrain> I did fix them! :) 18:03:23 <TrueBrain> I was about to say .. I looked at that code :P 18:03:31 <frosch123> user.py:25 18:03:38 <TrueBrain> yes .. now check the Schema :) 18:03:46 <TrueBrain> that is one of the beauties about the schema-system :) 18:03:50 <TrueBrain> internal name != external name :P 18:04:01 <TrueBrain> I need to convert it to an object internally, instead of a Python dict 18:04:04 <TrueBrain> it is confusing as fuck 18:04:11 <frosch123> ok :) 18:04:19 <TrueBrain> I have felt for this many times ... 18:04:27 <TrueBrain> because it is Python, the internal name is with a _ 18:04:45 <TrueBrain> dump({}) converts from internal to external 18:04:47 <frosch123> yes, same in frontend :p 18:04:58 <TrueBrain> in schema it has display_name = fields...(data_key="display-name") 18:05:03 <TrueBrain> which does the mapping 18:05:25 <TrueBrain> that is why I usually never use -, but always _ 18:05:29 <TrueBrain> but ... a new world ... :D 18:05:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:06:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/Jfe78 18:06:27 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: FWIW I would tend to an EU entity, too. There's just too much potential "national security" crap for an US entity. 18:06:59 <TrueBrain> sorry michi_cc , forgot to highlight you, but I would love your input on the gist too :D (besides this, ofc) 18:07:03 <TrueBrain> glx: same for you, ofc 18:07:10 <TrueBrain> who else am I forgetting .... oops 18:07:24 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/d8ec26316a4c4b9f5d6e0b4e84d96db7 for reference 18:07:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I broke my regression now :D Hihi, let me fix 18:08:38 <frosch123> i guess that's an improvement over "save before commit" 18:08:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/Jfe78 18:08:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 18:09:05 <TrueBrain> I am really happy with GitHub Actions :D 18:09:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/Jfe7V 18:10:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 18:10:22 <TrueBrain> 1 down, 3 to go 18:11:13 <TrueBrain> lol, no tags, so it fails to publish .. let me fix that 18:11:25 *** rotterdxm has joined #openttd 18:11:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.0.0 https://git.io/Jfe7X 18:12:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.0.0 https://git.io/Jfe7M 18:12:43 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: orudge for being the current money handler? 18:12:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.0.0 https://git.io/Jfe7y 18:13:03 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: yeah, was planning on sending him an email about it; as he rarely reads his IRC backlog :) 18:13:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain created new tag: 0.0.0 https://git.io/Jfe7Q 18:13:24 <TrueBrain> that solves the bookkeeping of the new repos 18:14:16 <TrueBrain> and ofc I forgot to set all kind of secrets .. lolz 18:14:20 <frosch123> orudge is sometimes us based 18:17:08 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I cannot retrigger GitHub actions now .. bah 18:17:24 <TrueBrain> guess I need to fix something .. 18:18:42 <michi_cc> As far as I can see, an EV certificate needs to be kept on a separate hardware key store. I'm not sure if would be possible to integrate that to a cloud-based release workflow. 18:19:27 <TrueBrain> I haven't even looked at that part yet ... 18:19:36 <TrueBrain> and I think we should aim for an OV for at least the first year 18:20:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] opened pull request #4: Bump gitpython from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1 https://git.io/Jfe5k 18:20:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] opened pull request #5: Bump gitdb from 4.0.2 to 4.0.4 https://git.io/Jfe5t 18:20:50 <TrueBrain> omg, it does it dep by dep? 18:20:56 <TrueBrain> sorry, I did not know .. was testing the new GitHub dep-bot 18:21:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] opened pull request #6: Bump botocore from 1.15.36 to 1.15.39 https://git.io/Jfe5m 18:21:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] opened pull request #7: Bump aioauth-client from 0.19.2 to 0.20.3 https://git.io/Jfe53 18:21:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] opened pull request #8: Bump smmap from 3.0.1 to 3.0.2 https://git.io/Jfe5Z 18:22:21 <TrueBrain> this was not the spam I was looking for 18:22:22 <TrueBrain> who does this ... 18:25:19 <TrueBrain> I guess if it checks daily, it is also easier to bump stuff .. hmm .. 18:25:26 <TrueBrain> monthly one, or daily many .. not sure .. 18:25:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain closed pull request #8: Bump smmap from 3.0.1 to 3.0.2 https://git.io/Jfe5Z 18:25:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] commented on pull request #8: Bump smmap from 3.0.1 to 3.0.2 https://git.io/Jfe5l 18:25:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain closed pull request #7: Bump aioauth-client from 0.19.2 to 0.20.3 https://git.io/Jfe53 18:25:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] commented on pull request #7: Bump aioauth-client from 0.19.2 to 0.20.3 https://git.io/Jfe58 18:26:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain closed pull request #6: Bump botocore from 1.15.36 to 1.15.39 https://git.io/Jfe5m 18:26:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] commented on pull request #6: Bump botocore from 1.15.36 to 1.15.39 https://git.io/Jfe54 18:26:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain closed pull request #5: Bump gitdb from 4.0.2 to 4.0.4 https://git.io/Jfe5t 18:26:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] commented on pull request #5: Bump gitdb from 4.0.2 to 4.0.4 https://git.io/Jfe5B 18:26:12 <TrueBrain> sorry for the spam :( 18:26:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain closed pull request #4: Bump gitpython from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1 https://git.io/Jfe5k 18:26:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] dependabot-preview[bot] commented on pull request #4: Bump gitpython from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1 https://git.io/Jfe5R 18:26:25 <TrueBrain> it should be silent now :P 18:26:43 <rotterdxm> eh it´s all in the game. progress is being made 18:27:07 <frosch123> lol, i was filtering whether tb said something important between the spam, but he only complained about the spam :) 18:27:21 <TrueBrain> :D 18:27:47 <milek7> officially, some providers also require hardware store for ov (eg. certum) 18:28:20 <Samu> this... certificate talk is quite hard for me to digest 18:29:29 <Samu> just "run anyway" 18:32:06 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Put some comments on the gist. 18:32:11 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: thank you! 18:32:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #9: Update: bump all requirements to the latest version https://git.io/Jfe5X 18:33:19 <Samu> _dp_ are you around? 18:33:32 <_dp_> no :p 18:33:49 <Samu> did u figure the time complexity or you didn't bother at all 18:34:31 <TrueBrain> okay, found a clean PR to make to bananas-api :D 18:34:33 <Samu> I plan on uploading this "native heap" to bananas, but with proper documentation 18:34:40 <_dp_> I figured it's too time complex 18:34:56 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: "For Apple, the certificate seems to included in the developer account" <- do you happen to have a source or reference? 18:35:06 <TrueBrain> as mostly I wonder if we can reuse that certificate for Windows, ofc :D 18:35:10 <michi_cc> https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/ 18:35:28 <michi_cc> "Distribute your Mac apps, plug-ins, and installer packages outside of the Mac App Store by signing them with a Developer ID certificate and having them notarized by Apple." 18:35:37 <TrueBrain> interesting 18:35:54 <michi_cc> I'd be surprised if Windows would include that CA as trusted. 18:36:12 <TrueBrain> https://developer.apple.com/support/membership-fee-waiver/ <- Apple doesn't list The Netherlands, booooo 18:36:45 <dwfreed> and pay 0/year 18:37:29 *** arikover has quit IRC 18:37:30 <Samu> South Korea? that's surprising, considering Samsung 18:37:48 *** arikover has joined #openttd 18:38:23 <TrueBrain> random? that's surprising, considering random 18:39:29 <frosch123> dwfreed: wasn't it 100/month? 18:39:53 <dwfreed> "The Apple Developer Program is 99 USD per membership year" 18:40:08 <TrueBrain> it was a typo in my gist, fixed a while ago :D 18:40:23 <frosch123> ah :) 18:40:40 <Samu> that's still 8.25 a month. it's money 18:40:45 <TrueBrain> frosch123: mind approving https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/pull/9 ? :D Want to test auto-deploy :P 18:41:20 <frosch123> certifi==2020.4.5.1 <- it looked like a date before, but no more :p 18:41:33 <TrueBrain> it still is somewhat of a date :P 18:41:36 <TrueBrain> not sure what happened 18:41:39 <michi_cc> A German "Verein" might also be possible, but at a first glance it looks more complicated than a Stichting. 18:41:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #9: Update: bump all requirements to the latest version https://git.io/JfedJ 18:41:53 <TrueBrain> ah, 2 releases on the same day 18:41:55 <TrueBrain> so they just fucked up :P 18:42:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #9: Update: bump all requirements to the latest version https://git.io/Jfe5X 18:42:16 <frosch123> michi_cc: there is this traditional joke abuot having 7 members, no idey whether it is a myth 18:42:17 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: in what way? 18:42:35 <TrueBrain> I hope it is a myth. A stichting can even be 1 member :P 18:42:44 <TrueBrain> Stichting is Dutch for foundation btw 18:43:13 <michi_cc> frosch123: That's not a joke, you do indeed need 7 members to register a Verein and at least three at all times to still be valid. 18:43:15 <frosch123> what do 7 germans do when they meet, they found a verein 18:43:24 <TrueBrain> lolz 18:43:31 <TrueBrain> okay, that is a bit much for us :D 18:43:48 <nielsm> frosch123 that one's just 3 persons in denmark 18:44:57 <michi_cc> A "Stiftung" would be the direct equivalent to foundation, but to get registered you need to "prove that the Stiftung as enough founds to fullfill its prupose", as determined by some bureaucrats 18:47:47 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: as we need no funds, that is easy? :) 18:47:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #10: Fix: [Actions] deployment was not triggered for staging https://git.io/Jfedc 18:48:11 <TrueBrain> ^^ is just stupid. Some things you cannot test with GitHub Actions .. this is an example of that :D 18:48:34 <nielsm> and they probably have a lower limit for something that would be deemed frivolous 18:48:54 *** arikover has quit IRC 18:49:06 *** arikover has joined #openttd 18:49:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #10: Fix: [Actions] deployment was not triggered for staging https://git.io/Jfedu 18:49:51 <TrueBrain> looked it up, here you do not need to proof anything funds related to create a Stichting 18:49:53 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: A Stiftung is usually assumed to have enough capital to e.g. pay for the certificate costs from the interest. 18:50:01 <frosch123> i see, i am not the only one who c&p from tb 18:50:04 <TrueBrain> the only thing is that you need to show stuff for the VAT stuff 18:50:38 <TrueBrain> to become VAT excempt, you need to show you don't make more than 15000 euro a year in profit 18:50:39 <TrueBrain> lolz 18:51:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #10: Fix: [Actions] deployment was not triggered for staging https://git.io/Jfedc 18:51:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no .... you are not :D 18:51:26 <TrueBrain> okay .. this time staging should auto-update I guess :) 18:51:32 <TrueBrain> would be nice 18:51:41 <michi_cc> Without being a laywer, I'd guess for German law, a Verein is the best matching thing. For example, US/global Wikipedia is organized as an US foundation, while the German entity is an Eingetragener Verein and not A Stiftung. 18:52:07 <TrueBrain> but we are not going to find 7 people to start it up :( 18:52:21 <FLHerne> Do they all have to be German? 18:52:27 <TrueBrain> please btw write this in the gist; before another german person looks it up :D 18:52:48 <FLHerne> 7 EU citizens might be plausible 18:53:09 <FLHerne> But of course some of us don't count for that anymore :-( 18:53:37 <frosch123> i would also guess eu-citizen is enough, but no idea 18:54:33 <TrueBrain> in a Stiching, it is just "a real person", no matter what your country is 18:55:18 <TrueBrain> I would guess that holds true in every EU country 18:55:43 <michi_cc> Not sure, but I think any real person would count for a Verein as well. Even then, it is still more work as you need proper bylaws, a yearly memebers meeting and probably other stuff I don't know about. 18:56:01 <TrueBrain> ah, a Dutch "vereniging", yeah 18:56:05 <TrueBrain> lot of paperwork 18:56:19 <TrueBrain> especially the yearly meeting is annoying as .... 18:56:23 <frosch123> ah, everyone can be member of a verein, you do not even need to live in germany 18:56:31 <frosch123> but children need the approval of their parents 18:56:36 <frosch123> so andy counts as 3? :p 18:56:42 <TrueBrain> but what I did, I called a company over here which creates companies for a living 18:56:46 <TrueBrain> talked to a notary for 20 minutes 18:56:49 <TrueBrain> they didnt even charge me 18:56:53 <TrueBrain> gave ma a lot of good information 18:57:35 <michi_cc> The rules for a Verein are a lot simpler (i.e. almost non-existant), but for legal purposes only a Eingetragener Verein would make sense. 18:57:39 <TrueBrain> also explained the process, what they take care of, etc etc 18:57:40 <TrueBrain> was nice 18:58:08 <planetmaker> good evening. We have two e-mails which independently claim that "with the new version" they cannot open old saves 18:58:39 <TrueBrain> oh-oh 18:58:48 <michi_cc> The old saves don't happen to be from JGR, do they? 18:58:51 <TrueBrain> quick, find someone to blame! 18:59:00 <planetmaker> They're one-line e-mails ;) 18:59:07 <planetmaker> the game have reached it expiration date and no longer works. even the latest version can no longer establish a multiplayer connection, nor play on maps other than desert. 18:59:14 <planetmaker> and 18:59:17 <nielsm> exceptional claims require exceptional proof! 18:59:17 <planetmaker> I downloaded the new version of OpenTdd in Windows 10 and a game that i have been playing for several days now I can't open it. Can you help me? 18:59:23 <planetmaker> yeah, agreed 19:00:07 * andythenorth could look up UK legal orgs 19:00:10 <andythenorth> but BBBBBrexit 19:00:22 <planetmaker> wow, certificates are expensive 19:01:33 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: yes; but < 300 euros is doable for everything, so that is not a huge amount of money 19:01:51 <TrueBrain> I believe the amount of donations, even without us asking for any in a prominent way, is sufficient to pay for that 19:02:08 <planetmaker> well. nevertheless, I think 300€/a is quite something 19:02:27 <TrueBrain> well, for sure this is the new money-maker for CAs 19:02:32 <TrueBrain> you would think they have learnt 19:02:34 <TrueBrain> but nnoooooo 19:02:40 <michi_cc> An OV certificate is not that much, it's only the EV ones that are really expensive. 19:03:32 <planetmaker> what is OV and EV? 19:03:34 <TrueBrain> yeah, OV cert + Apple dev + bankaccount makes ~300 euro a year 19:03:38 <TrueBrain> OV is a simple cert 19:03:42 <andythenorth> hmm all 3 automated validators say I have fixed my website mistakes :x 19:03:44 <andythenorth> hurrah 19:03:45 <TrueBrain> EV is you giving them papers to rpoof you are you 19:04:09 <TrueBrain> EV stands for extended-validation 19:04:11 <TrueBrain> if that helps 19:04:40 *** arikover has quit IRC 19:04:54 *** arikover has joined #openttd 19:05:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API https://git.io/JvjCk 19:05:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: master is now auto-deploying to staging, so that should make testing easier 19:05:59 <TrueBrain> I will see if I can do the same for the frontend tomorrow 19:06:36 <milek7> I don't know how it works for companies, for OV for person they want ID card scan, and scan of some bill issued for my address (water, electricity, etc.) 19:07:14 <planetmaker> ty for the explanation 19:07:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeFn 19:07:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: hopefully that helps moving people in helping :) If they can see how it looks etc :) 19:07:51 <TrueBrain> s/moving/motivating/ 19:08:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: regarding the money, it seems all developers that don't want their users to complain about "unknown publisher" are forced this direction. I am mostly annoyed that it is a returning fee .. like once you did the OV validation .. why pay so much money AGAIN the next year? 19:08:58 <TrueBrain> SSL.com has the best price for that. If you pay 10 years upfront, it is very cheap all of a sudden 19:09:13 <TrueBrain> just .. I won't .. suggest us doing that :D 19:09:28 <TrueBrain> anyway, it seems to be we just have to accept the costs :( 19:09:47 <frosch123> or find some other project :p 19:10:25 <frosch123> what was the other project we always copied from? 19:10:32 <frosch123> battle for wesnoth 19:10:36 <frosch123> does that still exist? 19:10:42 <TrueBrain> we copy stuff from things? 19:10:49 <TrueBrain> is this game reversed engineered?! 19:10:50 <frosch123> simutrans is probably too small 19:11:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we shared a bunch of sdl issues at some point 19:11:11 <planetmaker> battle of wesnoth *does* have an Inc for this stuff we discuss 19:11:24 <TrueBrain> who copied from who, is the question :) 19:11:33 <TrueBrain> Simutrans does too :) 19:11:39 <frosch123> i think they filed a patch to debian that broke ottd 19:12:08 <planetmaker> wesnoth? 19:13:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeF6 19:13:24 <frosch123> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Project <- last paragraph of first section 19:14:27 <TrueBrain> well, we need something like that too :P 19:14:32 <TrueBrain> just not the "US-based" part 19:15:20 <frosch123> they charge 4.49€ on apple store 19:15:29 <TrueBrain> wuth?! Holy crap 19:15:48 <TrueBrain> I still think we should provide cloud-saves for a 1 euro a year fee or what-ever 19:15:52 <TrueBrain> that would pay for all this crap 19:16:00 <frosch123> free on steam 19:16:10 <TrueBrain> if we implement the steam callbacks, but yes 19:16:38 <andythenorth> dorpsgek for bananas repos? o_O 19:16:49 <milek7> steamworks sdk is problem for GPL I guess 19:16:50 * andythenorth volunteers LordAro 19:16:54 <TrueBrain> random words with a questionmark?! o_O 19:17:11 <andythenorth> TB don't worry LordAro is on it 19:17:18 <andythenorth> I'm sure 19:17:44 <andythenorth> oh I'm an idiot, I should read up 19:17:58 *** arikover has quit IRC 19:18:17 <andythenorth> well there has to be at least one idiot in the channel at all times, today it is me 19:18:48 *** arikover has joined #openttd 19:18:49 <LordAro> i'd rather not bother with steam, tbh 19:18:54 <LordAro> there's no benefit to it for us 19:19:55 <TrueBrain> I don't agree; I think the audiance would be nice. Integrating with Steam .. not a big fan :) 19:20:39 <planetmaker> Well, you pay to be in apple store. So fair enough to charge there :) iOS people have money they want to give away :P 19:20:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jfebe 19:21:39 <TrueBrain> frosch123: seems you request-for-help did trigger someone :) Nice :) 19:21:48 <planetmaker> I think the Steam audience is actually quite large and it's also a nice convenience gain for many 19:21:49 <andythenorth> this is ^^ why I won't do the html for anything any more 19:22:00 <andythenorth> all of this has to be replied to 19:22:17 <TrueBrain> he has some good points; I don't see why you are bothered with it 19:22:27 <TrueBrain> happy someone takes an interest with know-how 19:22:45 <andythenorth> it's not helping, it's just nitpick 19:22:50 <andythenorth> it's like the nitpick on the blog posts 19:23:04 <TrueBrain> it is not nitpicking; Having a <p><ul></ul></p> does not do what you expect 19:23:04 <andythenorth> helping is a PR 19:23:11 <TrueBrain> he has made several PRs 19:23:14 <andythenorth> yes 19:23:25 <TrueBrain> basically, your complain atm is: he points out things that are wrong 19:23:27 <andythenorth> optimising 'JFDI please fix it' html misses the point 19:23:41 <andythenorth> oof 19:23:52 * andythenorth won't be person arguing on the internet about meaningless stuff 19:24:11 <TrueBrain> mostly because I am pretty sure I was more nitpicking in my review :D 19:24:32 <TrueBrain> the one thing people do have to learn, is that it is okay to disagree on feedback :) 19:24:39 <TrueBrain> like many things people commented in the CMake branch 19:24:48 <TrueBrain> sure, they may have a point .. but no, it is not worth the effort 19:25:05 <TrueBrain> so I am happy they reviewed; and I am going to ignore most part of it :) 19:25:09 <andythenorth> it's ok to disagree on feedback when you have commit rights 19:25:14 <andythenorth> it's very different when you're a peon 19:25:31 <TrueBrain> I doubt you let yourself be used as a peon ;) 19:28:24 <andythenorth> how many days left for Bananas? 19:28:51 <TrueBrain> okay, seems a Stiching will also get a DUNS number, and that holds true for any company in EU :P 19:28:56 <TrueBrain> well, it is part of NATO 19:29:01 <TrueBrain> so I guess any company in the world 19:29:41 <frosch123> what? as a stiching we are part of nato? 19:29:45 <andythenorth> also the name is just cool 19:29:56 <frosch123> do we need to supply soldiers with free copies? 19:30:04 <andythenorth> no war theme frosch123 19:30:21 <andythenorth> civil defence forces 19:30:39 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, I never said that :) 19:31:21 *** arikover has quit IRC 19:31:33 *** arikover has joined #openttd 19:31:49 <TrueBrain> owh, it is even the UN. The UN, ISO and EC use DUNS as validation method 19:32:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jfebz 19:34:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jfebo 19:35:25 <milek7> "This number is assigned once our patented identity resolution process, part of our DUNSRight methodology, identifies a company as being unique from any other in the Dun & Bradstreet Data Cloud. " 19:35:40 <milek7> from website alone I would think it is a scam :P 19:35:51 <TrueBrain> yeah ... 19:35:58 <TrueBrain> but it appears to be a real thing 19:43:11 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Totally different question: when you resize the OpenTTD window on Mac, do you see a proper window content during the resize or some random junk? 19:43:20 <nielsm> I guess the purpose might be to limit scamming by shutting down and reforming a company under new name/government registration numbers? 19:44:05 <TrueBrain> I tink it is a solution for the fact that every country does things slightly different 19:44:09 <andythenorth> michi_cc random junk, like a desynced TV signal 19:44:11 <TrueBrain> and some things are more a legal entity than others 19:44:19 <nielsm> that too 19:44:44 <michi_cc> Thanks, so its real and not some VM junk. 19:45:00 <frosch123> TrueBrain: is "wsgi server" something we would use when deploying the frontend? 19:45:19 <frosch123> or would be run the simple "development server" 19:46:14 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Would a simple stretch/shrink of the current window contents or just plain black be better? Not sure a proper repaint would be possible with how OTTD internally handles painting. 19:46:17 <TrueBrain> not sure, honestly. I have to check that. I believe the flask development server really cannot run in production 19:46:27 <TrueBrain> so I think I will make a Docker with an nginx in it, and talk to flask over wsgi 19:46:46 <TrueBrain> but I haven't toyed with flask in a long time .. so I have to get my hands dirty to give a better answer :) 19:47:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 updated pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jvh5V 19:47:27 <frosch123> only one TODO left, and that's the configuration 19:47:40 <frosch123> "--" does not work when running flask via the module 19:47:49 <frosch123> so i assume it would also not work for wsgi? 19:47:59 <frosch123> i need to read up on wsgi, what that actually is then 19:48:35 <frosch123> https://flask.palletsprojects.com/en/1.1.x/deploying/uwsgi/#configuring-nginx 19:48:50 <TrueBrain> can I safely assume you did one thing or the other with my comments? :D 19:49:20 <frosch123> i applied all your comments 19:49:25 <frosch123> the mentioned TODO is open 19:49:51 <frosch123> i applied the "error" comments from auge, and ignored the "better layout" comments 19:49:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeNc 19:50:02 <TrueBrain> I asked, because that means I can do that ^^ :P 19:50:38 <TrueBrain> we need to fix some things, like the README is rather incomplete, and more of that stuff. But this is a good start :) 19:52:16 <andythenorth> michi_cc without seeing it....I would guess plain black 19:52:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 merged pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jvh5V 19:52:36 <TrueBrain> nice frosch123 :) 19:52:47 <TrueBrain> 2 down, 2 to go :) (bananas-server and bananas-frontend-cli) 19:52:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeNR 19:52:57 <TrueBrain> but those two are less important 19:54:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain commented on pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/JfeNg 19:55:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you are interested in uwsgi etc, feel free to look into it. If you are not, don't worry too much about it .. I have most likely a Dockerfile somewhere to copy/paste from :D 19:55:52 <TrueBrain> or stuff like this https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-build-and-deploy-a-flask-application-using-docker-on-ubuntu-18-04 might help 19:55:57 <frosch123> i would like to know how it is started. and where to pass parameters 19:56:08 <frosch123> i have only 4 config vars 19:58:16 <TrueBrain> "--pyargv "foo bar"" 19:58:20 <TrueBrain> not something I would have guessed 19:58:21 <TrueBrain> lol 19:58:39 <TrueBrain> so the Dockerfile needs a tiny wrapper script to make that sane :) 19:59:41 <TrueBrain> yeah, and the dev-server can only serve 1 request at the time .. which is not good for performance 19:59:44 <TrueBrain> so we really need uwsgi 19:59:55 <TrueBrain> so nginx + uwsgi + flask needs to be in the Dockerfile 20:00:09 <TrueBrain> right, I had enough of this day; good night all 20:00:54 <andythenorth> bye TB 20:06:51 <frosch123> is there a new github competitor? why are they lowering prices? 20:18:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:19:31 <TrueBrain> nielsm : what do you consider one structure or the other? (Your comment on the gist) 20:21:17 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/Queue.NativeHeap 20:21:35 <Samu> I'm about to upload this to bananas, but before I do, someone disapprove of it? 20:21:53 <Samu> it won't include the git attributes file, of course 20:22:39 <Samu> I wish Zuu was here, or Yexo 20:22:48 <Samu> or whoever designed the priority queues 20:23:53 <Samu> AyStar requires a Queue Class, this one could be used to make it faster 20:24:19 <Samu> that's one of the use cases (and only?) 20:27:38 <nielsm> TrueBrain, I suppose a foundation focuses on the holding and distribution of funds, while an association focuses on protecting the interests of the members, but maybe I'm totally off 20:29:20 <TrueBrain> I am so lost in definitions, especially between countries :D so this explanation works for me :) tnx, and I agree :) 20:30:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:30:15 <Samu> which GPL version is OpenTTD? 2 or 3 20:31:14 <nielsm> which is also why a foundation-like structure will typically require a sufficient capital to incorporate, while an association will mainly just require sufficient members and a well-written bylaws 20:31:37 <glx> Samu: 2 20:31:47 <TrueBrain> A stichting, which is a foundation, is not aimed at capital 20:31:54 <Samu> ok, uploading as 2 20:31:57 <TrueBrain> This is why this stuff is so confusing :) 20:32:03 *** arikover has quit IRC 20:32:09 <nielsm> yeah... 20:32:25 <TrueBrain> But I get what you mean; that is more important :D 20:33:19 <nielsm> in the end maybe it's more important to make _some_ choice, there may be multiple equally valid ones 20:33:29 <TrueBrain> Yup 20:33:44 <TrueBrain> I see most people circle towards setting up our own entity 20:34:17 <TrueBrain> With that I guess we vote against doing it on a personal name or using an umbrella corp 20:34:28 <nielsm> joining under the banner of someone else feels wrong to me, especially if it's some org more focused on utilitarian software 20:35:11 <TrueBrain> If we all agree on that .. we just need someone willing to do this in their country :p 20:35:17 <TrueBrain> Which mostly consumes time 20:35:17 <nielsm> otoh if there was some association/foundation for open source games that would be perfect 20:35:43 <TrueBrain> Please Google and see if you can find one .. possibly in your own country 20:35:52 <TrueBrain> That would be perfect tbh 20:37:15 <TrueBrain> I will check this week some more in depth about a Stichting, just to have that picture complete 20:37:43 <TrueBrain> Stuff like how the VAT exempt works, and how a bank account works 20:37:54 <andythenorth> oof is it sleeping time? 20:40:41 <milek7> it's not that you will sell anything, so VAT doesn't matter anyway? 20:41:43 <nielsm> VAT on purchase of certificates and running servers may be deductible since those are business expenses? 20:42:06 <TrueBrain> Having nothing to declare and not having to declare are two different things :) 20:42:14 <nielsm> but yeah that requires income from sale of a product or service I think 20:44:34 <TrueBrain> For years I had my own company .. one thing I learnt is how to reduce the amount of paperwork you have to push yearly :D 20:45:42 *** slash_ has joined #openttd 20:46:25 *** slash_ has left #openttd 20:46:50 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/UcZuN0y.png 20:47:15 *** slash_ has joined #openttd 20:47:23 <Samu> is it possible, in the future version of bananas, to download previous versions of my AIs? 20:48:04 <andythenorth> TrueBrain can you send me a memo about that :P 20:48:55 <andythenorth> admin is my biggest irrational fear 20:49:36 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 20:52:57 <slash_> hey everyone - sorry if dumb question (have some c++ experience but never with a project this large, so the makefile for example is quite intimidating :| ) - i was able to get the source code and compile the game (via make, then make bundle) - modified some of the language files and then compiled/make again - all works fine - only issue is each time I do it I'm having to manually create the baseset directory and add the grf and sfx files in the bundle 20:52:57 <slash_> directory. Is there a way I can make sure the bundle always includes these ? Am thinking I must have to add something to the makefile ? thanks 20:53:32 <slash_> sorry if not right place to ask 20:53:52 <nielsm> hmm, by the baseset files what exactly do you mean? 20:54:25 <nielsm> the base GRF files, or the OBG/OBS/OBM files for supporting the original game data? 20:54:50 <nielsm> also which platform are you on? 20:56:51 <slash_> hey - MacOS (am just using sublime as IDE for now - not XCode (though I have it) - and after doing (1) make then (2) make bundle -- i have to go into the 'bundle' directory and create baseset directory - and then add the files from the base GRF and SFX pack --> sample files include: ogfx1_base.grf, ogfxc_arctic.grf, opensfx.obs etc 20:57:31 <frosch123> ogfx is not part of openttd, it is not bundled 20:58:02 <nielsm> you can put the baseset files in your user profile (settings) though 20:58:20 <nielsm> instead of inside the bundle 20:58:43 <slash_> sorry if dumb question - which user profile/settings you referring to? 20:58:51 <slash_> like where should i put them 20:59:31 <nielsm> uh I think it's the Application Support folder in your home folder? 20:59:36 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/directory_structure.md <- ~/Documents/OpenTTD/baseset 20:59:36 <glx> usual locations are in the readme 20:59:37 <slash_> okay so MacOS 20:59:39 <nielsm> I rarely work on mac so can't remember exactly 21:00:07 <frosch123> glx: not anymore :p readme has a link though 21:00:39 <slash_> ah okay one sec 21:01:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] MinchinWeb commented on pull request #93: Add release workflow https://git.io/Jfep2 21:01:29 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:01:46 <slash_> i am 99% sure that directory (Documents/OptenTTD/<a bunch of stuff>) was actually automatically created when i first succesfully built it - so that would make a lot of sense 21:02:07 <slash_> (i used to have the game installed a year or two ago so wasn't sure if i just hadn't deleted it) 21:02:08 <nielsm> it gets created on first run 21:02:22 <slash_> kkkkk one sec will test 21:05:51 <slash_> nice ! thank you @nielsm @frosch123 that did it. 21:06:25 <nielsm> cool 21:06:38 * andythenorth is glad someone made me keep that directory structure doc :D 21:06:39 <nielsm> and yeah the bundle is really only supposed to contain files produced by the build 21:06:43 <andythenorth> I was all for deleting 21:06:48 <slash_> 😂 21:07:18 <slash_> okay - and since the grf/sfx stuff (usually) never changes makes sense to keep it separate 21:07:50 <andythenorth> it is / was a Mac convention to keep application docs in the Documents folder 21:07:55 <LordAro> @topic set 1 1.10.1 21:07:55 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.10.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only" 21:08:03 <andythenorth> I did read the guidelines once :P 21:08:54 <glx> andythenorth: probably was 21:08:54 <nielsm> andythenorth well things like baseset, newgrfs and AI scripts aren't really "documents" 21:08:59 <glx> same for windows 21:09:16 <nielsm> savegames and scenarios (created by the local user) are 21:09:41 <andythenorth> there was some rationale for it, I initially disagreed, so I looked it up and I was wrong :D 21:09:43 <andythenorth> also bedtime 21:09:46 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:09:52 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 21:09:57 <glx> but it's easier for us to have everything in one place 21:10:10 <nielsm> I guess maybe it falls under "the user may want to mess with these files manually" 21:10:43 <glx> yeah navigating in AppData to add newgrf manually would be a pain :) 21:10:45 <nielsm> so you don't need a button in-app to "open game content folder in finder" if they want to manage it 21:10:51 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:11:21 <nielsm> although perhaps the newgrf manager window could use a "reveal in <OS file browser>" button 21:13:16 *** rotterdxm has quit IRC 21:14:04 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 21:15:45 <LordAro> nielsm: the tricky bit is "OS file browser" :p 21:16:09 <nielsm> it would definitely need to be implemented per platform 21:16:24 <nielsm> quite easy on windows and mac 21:16:38 <nielsm> other systems, whoknows 21:16:58 <slash_> srry another dumb question - is there an option to show the cost of a station before its built ? like have the cost of the selected configuration (ie: a 3 track, 5 platform length train station) hover along with the cursor? 21:17:08 <glx> shift 21:17:09 <nielsm> hold shift while building 21:17:10 <slash_> i looked through advanced settings quick couldn't find anything but prob missing it 21:17:10 <slash_> ah 21:17:12 <slash_> ty 21:18:09 <glx> https://wiki.openttd.org/Shortcut_keys <-- many useful "hidden" stuff :) 21:18:41 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 21:18:53 <milek7> nielsm: on others xdg-open 21:19:29 <nielsm> milek7, does that also have a feature to pre-select a specific file in a folder? 21:19:36 <milek7> no 21:19:46 <nielsm> then it isn't entirely "reveal" 21:26:25 <LordAro> opening the correct folder is probably enough 21:28:28 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 21:35:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 21:43:16 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:43:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 opened pull request #3: Change: embed the main headings of all pages in header-elements https://git.io/JfejJ 21:45:53 <Samu> Road pathfinder with binary heap -> 11356 ticks 21:46:31 <Samu> Road pathfinder with the " > 0 " fix and with native heap -> 6656 ticks 21:46:50 <Samu> @calc 6656/11356 21:46:50 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.586121873899 21:46:59 <Samu> so much time shoved 21:48:06 *** nielsm is now known as Guest22247 21:48:37 <Samu> the v15 of my AI is currently experimenting with this native heap 21:49:09 <Samu> I'm seriously impressed with the gains 21:49:39 <Samu> it's getting too late, gotta go, take care 21:49:42 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:49:53 *** rotterdxm has joined #openttd 21:51:12 *** Guest22247 has quit IRC 21:57:15 <_dp_> oh, I know what text query popup would be perfect for 21:57:30 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:57:30 <_dp_> to ask unnamed players for a proper name 21:59:36 *** rotterdxm has quit IRC 22:18:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #3: Change: embed the main headings of all pages in header-elements https://git.io/Jfver 22:19:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:20:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Change: embed the main headings of all pages in header-elements https://git.io/JfveX 22:32:55 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:33:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:57:11 *** slash_ has quit IRC 23:03:30 <FLHerne> _dp_: Reddit S1 just kicks them, they either get the hint or don't :P 23:04:49 <_dp_> we don't have that many players to afford kicking them left and right xD