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00:09:58 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:36:30 *** skrzyp has quit IRC 00:36:44 *** skrzyp has joined #openttd 00:36:50 *** jback has quit IRC 00:37:01 *** jback has joined #openttd 00:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Speeder_: so add coal as an imported good from a port? 00:37:56 <Speeder_> Eddi|zuHause, I was considering doing that but... Brazil use diesel instead on powerplants, so if I adjust powerplants for example coal from port would end being kinda useless. 00:38:00 <Speeder_> But I might add coal to port anyway. 00:38:04 <Speeder_> for other uses. 00:43:29 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan_ has joined #openttd 00:46:54 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has quit IRC 00:46:56 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan_ is now known as Wrench_In_The_Plan 00:53:50 *** TinoDidriksen has quit IRC 00:54:01 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd 00:54:34 *** TinoDidriksen is now known as Guest26392 01:22:31 *** glx has quit IRC 01:27:10 *** ist5shreawf[m] has quit IRC 01:27:21 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd 01:45:50 *** fiddeldibu[m] has quit IRC 01:46:01 *** fiddeldibu[m] has joined #openttd 01:48:47 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:54:30 *** buggeas40d[m] has quit IRC 01:54:31 *** buggeas40d[m] has joined #openttd 02:28:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 02:47:10 *** natmac[m] has quit IRC 02:47:25 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd 02:49:31 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:50:10 *** pothyurf[m] has quit IRC 02:50:19 *** pothyurf[m] has joined #openttd 02:52:51 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:55:10 *** olmvnec[m] has quit IRC 02:55:19 *** olmvnec[m] has joined #openttd 03:07:15 *** nartir[m] has quit IRC 03:07:22 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 03:20:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoJd 03:42:24 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:50:51 *** jback has quit IRC 03:51:07 *** jback has joined #openttd 04:04:53 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has quit IRC 04:36:31 *** keoz has joined #openttd 04:52:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8008: Feature: Double-click to rename vehicle https://git.io/JfoTQ 04:57:50 *** pina[m] has quit IRC 04:57:55 *** pina[m] has joined #openttd 04:58:06 *** amal[m] has quit IRC 04:58:10 *** amal[m] has joined #openttd 05:01:18 *** karoline[m] has quit IRC 05:01:24 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd 05:09:05 *** Guest26392 is now known as TinoDidriksen 05:18:56 <Speeder_> can scripts mess with the price of vehicles? 05:33:17 *** jback has quit IRC 05:33:33 *** jback has joined #openttd 05:33:45 <Speeder_> can scripts trigger recession? 06:08:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:09:52 *** jback has quit IRC 06:10:04 *** jback has joined #openttd 06:25:21 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:27:10 *** patricia[m] has quit IRC 06:27:16 *** patricia[m] has joined #openttd 06:44:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:07:42 <andythenorth> yo 07:07:58 *** johanna[m] has quit IRC 07:08:00 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd 07:08:14 *** einar[m] has quit IRC 07:08:15 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 07:08:30 *** josef[m]1 has quit IRC 07:08:36 *** josef[m]1 has joined #openttd 07:13:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth approved pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoL6 07:24:49 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 07:24:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kawayanslayer commented on pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoLA 07:26:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoLp 07:26:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoJd 07:32:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kawayanslayer commented on pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/Jfotk 07:36:23 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:36:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:43:14 *** tokai has quit IRC 07:50:57 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 08:02:24 *** jback has quit IRC 08:02:45 *** jback has joined #openttd 08:27:58 *** gooodger has quit IRC 08:28:02 *** goodger has joined #openttd 08:33:02 *** dihedral has quit IRC 08:33:10 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 08:42:58 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 09:03:10 *** joey[m] has quit IRC 09:03:15 *** joey[m] has joined #openttd 09:09:47 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:11:42 *** Corns[m] has quit IRC 09:11:47 *** Corns[m] has joined #openttd 09:11:58 *** BekJut[m] has quit IRC 09:12:02 *** BekJut[m] has joined #openttd 09:13:18 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 09:33:50 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has quit IRC 09:33:58 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 09:48:57 *** arikover` has joined #openttd 09:54:29 *** arikover has quit IRC 10:03:44 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:04:14 <Samu> hi 10:08:46 *** tonyfinn[m] has quit IRC 10:08:50 *** tonyfinn[m] has joined #openttd 10:31:58 *** Markk has quit IRC 10:32:03 *** Markk has joined #openttd 10:40:12 <Gadg8eer> Is there a way to contact Michael Blunck? I need to ask a question about coding bridges in m4nfo. 10:41:34 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 10:42:46 <LordAro> forum 10:57:18 *** urdh has quit IRC 10:58:00 *** urdh has joined #openttd 11:09:53 <Gadg8eer> I already sent him a PM like a month ago. 11:10:43 <Gadg8eer> Okay, actually, after double-checking... 11:10:59 <Gadg8eer> The message was sent about 2 weeks ago. 11:11:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 11:12:11 <Gadg8eer> It doesn't say when he was last online, so I don't know if he's seen my message or not. 11:12:37 <LordAro> well that's all you can do 11:12:56 <LordAro> you can try sending another one, but if he's not seen the first... 11:14:23 <Gadg8eer> I have coded everything else I intend to use in my server. Without his help, I am literally a few bridges away from the perfect OpenTTD marathon game. 11:14:54 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 11:14:57 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd 11:14:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 11:15:32 <Gadg8eer> Is there anyone else that can help me code bridges? 11:15:45 <LordAro> if you post on the forum, someone might be able to 11:15:54 <Gadg8eer> Alright, thanks. 11:15:55 <LordAro> though i've no idea how many people actually use m4nfo 11:17:22 <andythenorth> some 11:22:57 <andythenorth> I considered switching, but I don't think I'd get on with the author tbh 11:33:50 *** tneo has quit IRC 11:34:09 *** tneo has joined #openttd 11:34:22 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 11:35:02 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 11:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> MN was active in the german forum the last few days, so he should still be around 11:49:42 *** cHawk has quit IRC 11:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> *MB 11:58:07 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 12:11:58 *** LordAro has quit IRC 12:11:59 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 12:36:16 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 12:42:23 *** cHawk has quit IRC 12:51:26 *** Execthts has quit IRC 12:51:26 *** Exec has joined #openttd 13:03:53 *** Timberwolf has joined #openttd 13:29:58 <andythenorth> quiet eh 13:30:21 <supermop_Home> yep 13:31:09 <supermop_Home> i didn't find his comment in the stations post particularly helpful or insightful 13:34:09 <supermop_Home> or really apropos of anything. It did seem to kill the thread though.... 13:35:42 * andythenorth has sold a lot of model trains to a dealer 13:35:50 <andythenorth> and has spent 3 hours boxing them up so far :| 13:35:51 <andythenorth> oof 13:36:11 <supermop_Home> never should have taken them out of the boxes 13:36:57 <supermop_Home> or really just build a oo mainline to the dealer and drive the train there 13:43:10 *** Mek has quit IRC 13:43:11 *** Mek has joined #openttd 13:45:02 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 13:45:32 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 13:48:54 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:18:20 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 14:30:22 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 14:30:52 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 14:32:46 *** welterde has quit IRC 14:33:20 *** welterde has joined #openttd 14:43:59 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 14:46:10 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:46:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:51:42 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:00:16 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has joined #openttd 15:25:47 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Looking at the wiki now 15:26:04 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> So the option to build a statue in a town isn't just for the sake of being vain? 15:26:17 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> The wiki says that it improves a stations' rating. 15:27:55 <FLHerne> Yes 15:28:26 <FLHerne> A company HQ is mostly for vanity, though :P 15:31:10 <supermop_Home> playing tto in 94, my neighbor told me that the HQ reduced maintenance - ie trains closer to the HQ had better reliability or recovered from breakdowns faster 15:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can use company HQ to boost passenger production 15:31:41 <supermop_Home> this idea made so much sense to me that I was pretty disappointed to later learn it wasn't true 15:32:28 <supermop_Home> like Eddi|zuHause says, now i often am moving my hq to some backwater hamlet just to get the station to accept passengers 15:34:02 <supermop_Home> i think i last mentioned this at like 3 am 10 years ago when only Eddi|zuHause was humoring me, but i wished the statue was instead a 'local office' drawn in the style of the HQ, as this fits the function pretty well 15:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i definitely had that same thought 15:35:40 <supermop_Home> if the service at my local subway station is awful, the MTA building a statue of it's president out front would enrage me and make me less likely to use it 15:36:09 <supermop_Home> but a staffed office where i could lodge a complaint or get information would help 15:38:38 <LordAro> haha 15:47:02 <Speeder_> GS can change what cargo an industry accepts? 15:47:15 <andythenorth> nah 15:48:00 <Speeder_> can newgrf do like the game already does with oilrigs and make an industry that at certain date forcibly replace another? 15:48:26 <andythenorth> nah 15:48:35 <Speeder_> D: 15:48:41 <andythenorth> you can forcibly close industries 15:48:55 <andythenorth> and you can restrict dates industries are available 15:48:59 <Speeder_> andythenorth, can I do that with GS? 15:49:00 <andythenorth> only GS can forcibly build 15:49:05 <andythenorth> and only newgrf can control the industry 15:49:07 <Speeder_> forcibly close t hat is 15:49:16 <andythenorth> GS cannot forcibly close 15:49:18 <andythenorth> only open 15:49:21 <Speeder_> >.< 15:49:27 <andythenorth> also GS and newgrf cannot communicate 15:49:46 <Speeder_> lack of communication is not an issue, since it would be date based 15:49:56 <andythenorth> should be fine then 15:50:07 <andythenorth> newgrf closes industries from 19xx 15:50:13 <andythenorth> GS starts building them 15:50:13 <Speeder_> andythenorth, any idea how hard would be to update my FIRS 3 code to use 16-input limit? 15:50:18 <Speeder_> also any new art on FIRS 4? 15:50:21 <andythenorth> that would be FIRS 4 code 15:50:37 <andythenorth> yes, there's new art in FIRS 4 15:50:39 <Speeder_> FIRS4 you changed a lot of other things no? 15:51:42 <andythenorth> the biggest change is to work with updated newgrf spec for 16 cargos 15:52:04 <Speeder_> I am worried switching to FIRS4 entirely will also get me those bugs you mentioned 15:52:13 <andythenorth> it's an awkward time :) 15:52:20 <andythenorth> FIRS 4 is not finished, FIRS 3 is not up to date :) 15:52:23 <andythenorth> stuff and things 15:52:56 <Speeder_> my main issue now is that to do what I want with FIRS3 I need even more ports and farms :/ 15:53:43 <Speeder_> andythenorth, by the way, I removed passenger generation from Hotels, it was breaking town growth GSes that check amount of passengers transported 15:54:07 <Speeder_> because hotels could generate passenger far in excess of the towns population, making the percentage of passengers impossible to attain 15:54:43 <andythenorth> this is a thing :) 15:55:36 <Speeder_> andythenorth, it was wobblign the entire game though. making everything skewed. wasn't fun. 15:56:14 <Speeder_> I wish there was a way to newgrf change what something makes based on date 15:56:21 <Speeder_> so hte hotel could increase production as date advances 15:56:31 <Speeder_> and ports would be able to change what they produce based on date too 15:57:43 <Speeder_> can you change CURRENCY with GS? 15:57:58 <Speeder_> for example Brazil used pounds early on 15:58:02 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 15:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 16:00:13 <Speeder_> portugal had, actually, still has, is the longest running alliance in the world, an agreement with England. Brazil during 1700s was allowed to trade with both Portugal and England, and Brazil kept trading with England for a while (for example our major train stations were all built by english companies using english steel... yes they are old, and photos of our train stations look exactly like photos of london stations, quite 16:00:14 <Speeder_> funny), and BRL was introduced only in 1994 16:00:14 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 16:00:16 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 16:01:16 <glx> currency is just a user setting 16:01:39 <glx> internally everything is in GBP anyway 16:02:37 <Speeder_> https://www.infoescola.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/estacao-da-luz.jpg https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/kings-cross-station-high-view-travellers-pass-along-platforms-train-74377677.jpg 16:02:52 <Speeder_> glx, I know, was wondering if GS is allowed to change it 16:03:06 <andythenorth> hotel production can easily change by date 16:03:32 <glx> GS don't change visual only settings 16:04:07 <LordAro> Speeder_: everything a GS can do can be found here https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/index.html 16:04:20 <Speeder_> andythenorth, on FIRS3 ? 16:04:26 <Speeder_> or need the newest nml? 16:05:27 <glx> hmm we could release 0.5.3 with 0.4 compatibility 16:07:00 <Speeder_> glx, that would make me happy, specially if it allows partial move into 16 cargo 16:07:14 <andythenorth> Speeder_ any FIRS can do production by date, you'd have to write code for it 16:07:29 <Speeder_> andythenorth, can you point me in the nml docs to what I need to mess with? 16:07:37 <Speeder_> callbacks? 16:07:38 <glx> produce() 16:08:18 <Speeder_> can produce query the date? 16:08:36 <Speeder_> can you change cargo types on the fly? 16:08:57 <glx> you can't change cargo type 16:09:29 <glx> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Produce 16:09:31 <nielsm> an industry has to decide which cargo types it can consume and which it can produce at latest when it gets built 16:10:45 <glx> but then it can produce or not any cargo in the defined list 16:11:09 <Speeder_> glx, so only way to do what I want is if new nml supported my old FIRS3 code 16:11:23 <Speeder_> then I would put all cargos I want over the years, and change the multipliers 16:11:28 <Speeder_> setting some to 0 when I don't want them 16:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably easier with the new syntax 16:15:40 <Speeder_> Eddi|zuHause, it is FIRS4 as andy said, has bugs, I don't want to use it. but it sounds like making FIRS3 support new nml would take ludicrous amounts of work, and probably make those bugs show up anyay 16:15:42 <Speeder_> anyway* 16:16:53 <Speeder_> if I knew more about how to make the sprites work with newest nml I wouldn't mind, but right now I don't know, so for example although FIRS did had bauxite mine officially in the past, I am reusing the clay mine, because if I restored the bauxite mine graphics I wouldn't know how to code the sprite code for NML 4.5 16:17:18 <glx> nml now support both old and new syntaxes, but warns everytime old syntax is seen 16:17:39 <glx> (and it warns a lot) 16:18:18 <Speeder_> glx, what you mean... "now" ? 16:18:28 <glx> current master 16:18:36 <Speeder_> when this happened? 16:18:41 <glx> and next release 16:19:00 <Speeder_> cool 16:19:21 <Speeder_> if I am done with current stuff I am doing before next release, I will then learn how to compile nml 16:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's easy... 16:21:35 <Speeder_> I am learning details of Brazil economy now, my plan is use GS to open industries at correct date 16:21:49 <Speeder_> an in correct locations 16:22:22 <Speeder_> learned some stuff I didn't knew, like the fact Brazil never had heavy coal mining, always relied on imports, and powerplants here for this reason are NOT coal-powered, they are DIESEL powered O.o 16:22:32 <Speeder_> never knew diesel commercial powerplants existed in first place 16:22:43 <Speeder_> always thought this was only for smaller business, homes and hospitals 16:25:18 <andythenorth> the FIRS 4 bugs aren't extensive, they're just not diagnosed yet 16:25:29 <andythenorth> you could probably integrate whatever fixes them later 16:25:45 <andythenorth> the bigger problem is that industry closure is missing and needs rewritten 16:26:22 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 16:26:29 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 16:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't heard specifically of Diesel power plants, just more generic oil 16:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> usually for that kind of large devices you'd use the leftover stuff that you filtered the diesel out from 16:31:17 <Speeder_> Eddi|zuHause, might be too. here in Brazil diesel is banned in cars though. you are only allowed to use diesel in commercial enterprise. 16:31:23 <Speeder_> (ie: tractors, generators, trucks, etc...) 16:32:11 <Speeder_> SUVs, off-road vehicles, etc... for personal use, are all gasoline. 16:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, over here, taxes are designed in a way that diesel cars only are worth it if you travel large distances per year 16:35:08 <glx> here taxes are CO2 based, so for now diesel is still less taxed 16:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the diesel itself is less taxed, but the diesel cars are more taxed 16:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so the more you drive, the less impact the car taxes have 16:36:44 <glx> a recent gasoline car can be more taxed than diesel because it generates more CO2 16:36:48 <Speeder_> heh, just found out Brazillian landowners pushed for slavery end... becuase paying wages to people was cheaper than giving food to people. you could pay them a pittance and let them get themselves screwed finding food and housing. O.o 16:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> diesel cars also have a heavy stand currently because of the scandal about cheating emissions on the test bench 16:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and lots of older diesel cars are banned in cities 16:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> because of air quality restrictions 16:38:18 <glx> yeah same here 16:38:59 <Speeder_> here the government official reason to ban diesel cars was pollution, but it is obvious this is not the real reason 16:39:23 <Speeder_> the real reason is that the government gives heavy subsidies to diesel itself, to create an economic stimulus for industries that need diesel (agriculture, transportation) 16:39:28 <glx> but most owners of very old diesel switched to less old diesel, because gasoline cars are rare on second hand market 16:39:48 <Speeder_> glx, where are you from, that gaosline cars are rare? 16:39:58 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 16:40:00 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 16:40:57 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:40:58 <glx> they are not so rare in use, but owners usually keep them longer 16:47:10 <andythenorth> so I think newgrf town control would be interesting 16:47:21 <andythenorth> but I don't know if it actually solves the problem I have in FIRS 16:47:27 * andythenorth looking for suggestions 16:47:57 <andythenorth> there are a set of cargos for which the destination is towns 16:48:10 <andythenorth> I almost never deliver them because they have no purpose 16:48:30 <andythenorth> AND they go to small 1 or 2 tile industries which are very hard to serve due to town layout 16:48:48 <andythenorth> additional factors 16:49:14 <andythenorth> * cdist gives no incentive to deliver them, and doesn't work so well with them 16:49:41 <andythenorth> * these cargos aren't used for any town effects 16:50:07 <Speeder_> andythenorth, what cargos are these? 16:50:22 <andythenorth> building materials, food, goods, vehicles, etc 16:53:45 <nielsm> I think what's needed is better control of what buildings appear in a town 16:54:24 <nielsm> right now there's two special rules (bits) for "is a church" and "is a stadium", and a town has at most one of each of those, I'm not sure if it tries to always have one though 16:55:00 <nielsm> a more flexible extension of that would be useful, like "should have one per every 500 pop in town" or such 16:55:28 <Speeder_> andythenorth, well, some GS do that 16:55:28 <nielsm> and some sectioning of towns into zones (maybe not as strict as simcity or transport fever zones) 16:55:40 <Speeder_> some GS in fact expects FIRS to be present, so they can control town growth using these cargos 16:55:55 <andythenorth> so the additional factor for me 16:56:02 <andythenorth> * I mostly turn town growth off 16:56:14 <andythenorth> towns that grow are toxic 16:56:21 <andythenorth> they just block space for routes 16:57:15 <andythenorth> I think more interesting might be getting cargo out for cargo in 16:57:47 <andythenorth> can newgrf houses change production? 16:57:59 <andythenorth> FIRS might have to take control of houses 16:58:32 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:03:54 <Speeder_> andythenorth, well... if you do that, leave that an option instead... I personally like making the towns grow 17:04:20 <andythenorth> FIRS can't control growth, only GS can do that 17:04:25 <andythenorth> I turn it off in player settings 17:04:26 <Speeder_> to me all the industry transpotation is pointless, if it is not messing wi th the population 17:04:35 <Speeder_> andythenorth, I mean, if FIRS take control of houses, make that optional 17:04:41 <Speeder_> not all players might want FIRS to mess with the houses 17:04:48 <andythenorth> yes 17:04:56 <Speeder_> or make that a separate newgrf entirely 17:05:06 <andythenorth> houses are broken with FIRS anyway, which is another reason 17:05:12 <andythenorth> I do wonder about merging all my grfs 17:05:17 <andythenorth> just have one grf 17:05:34 <andythenorth> it would simplify a lot of things 17:08:27 <Speeder_> andythenorth, what you mean houses are broken with FIRS? 17:08:47 <andythenorth> FIRS causes houses to accept weird cargos 17:08:58 <Speeder_> andythenorth, like what? 17:09:22 *** blathijs has quit IRC 17:09:38 <Speeder_> I am using a newgrf that mess with houses... so I wonder if that is why I didn't see anythign weird FIRS related 17:11:10 <andythenorth> it might only break the baseset houses 17:17:22 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 17:17:48 <andythenorth> supermop_Home yo, played any Horse ever? Got a question about railcars 17:24:22 <FLHerne> c.f. https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=87128 , that `elitegameservers.net` spam really does need to go :-/ 17:24:34 <FLHerne> Is https://github.com/OpenTTD/MasterServer still the relevant code? 17:25:16 <supermop_Home> andythenorth i use the railcars pretty much all the time 17:26:01 <andythenorth> building long railcars, the running costs bother me 17:26:22 <andythenorth> I tried to tune them so they're not OP in gameplay 17:26:37 <andythenorth> but a long consist of railcars seems expensive to run 17:26:54 <andythenorth> option (a): add unpowered trailer coaches, that work with the sprite magic to set cabs etc 17:27:19 <andythenorth> option (b) reduce run costs by x% for additional units after first one 17:27:35 <andythenorth> option (c) just further reduce run costs 17:28:25 <andythenorth> option (d) make pax coaches adapt to the graphics of the railcar (this would make some complex switches ridiculously insane) 17:28:26 <supermop_Home> andythenorth id prefer (a) 17:28:36 <supermop_Home> or d 17:29:00 <andythenorth> I preferred (a) also, even though it messes up the buy menu more 17:29:04 <andythenorth> seems more natural 17:29:09 <supermop_Home> but the cost of a dmu consist is steep early in the game 17:29:15 <andythenorth> yes 17:29:29 <andythenorth> it's not intended 17:29:43 <supermop_Home> but i have no problem making a profit with long dmu rakes in a mature game 17:29:51 <andythenorth> me neither 17:30:00 <andythenorth> but also the power gets a bit silly 17:30:11 <andythenorth> 4 tiles might be 2000hp+ 17:30:39 <andythenorth> we need vehicle variants in buy menu :) 17:30:48 <supermop_Home> the total HP of a subway train is probably pretty high compared to a LIRR locomotive hauled train out to Montauk 17:31:03 <andythenorth> yes, that's valid in some cases 17:31:22 <andythenorth> if I do them as driving trailers, they could follow the railcar directly in the buy menu 17:31:31 <andythenorth> give them 50hp or something 17:31:39 <andythenorth> 'auxiliary engine for light and power' 17:31:57 <andythenorth> I think that's actually realism in some cases :P 17:33:36 <andythenorth> I think trying to adapt to normal pax coaches gets very messy in the calculation of which sprite to show 17:34:00 <supermop_Home> yes 17:34:10 <supermop_Home> and there's just too many options 17:35:32 <supermop_Home> maybe the luxury car is the only case where you might want to mix it up, but i like keeping those separate as the province of special MUs and locomotives 17:35:50 <supermop_Home> one case would be the mail MUs 17:36:13 <supermop_Home> do you add another trailer for the Mail MUs? 17:44:54 <andythenorth> nah 17:45:33 <andythenorth> I'm already uncertain about whether to add 1 railcar trailer per generation (some complications) or 1 per railcar type (more buy menu) 17:46:08 <andythenorth> this would be a great case for 'variants' in the buy menu 17:46:19 <andythenorth> just add a lower cost, lower hp variant, on a + disclosure menu 18:08:28 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> more buy menu 18:20:40 <nielsm> isn't it more like passenger cars used to have dynamos attached to one of the axles to provide light, effectively adding a light braking force to that axle 18:22:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:23:47 <andythenorth> Pikka simulated something like that 18:23:55 <andythenorth> parasitic reduction of engine hp 18:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you're going for xUSSR ultra-realistic heating and powering methods, i wouldn't bother 18:25:50 <andythenorth> so shall we try patching for vehicle variants in buy menu? 18:25:57 <nielsm> the double decker passenger cars currently running on danish rails also have an air condition system that pulls so much power, that the weight of the cars is rated up (from 50 or 55 tons to 60 tons) to make up for the reduction in tractive power available to diesel-electric locos 18:26:04 <andythenorth> iirc, it's just one prop, setting a parent ID 18:26:20 <andythenorth> and a disclosure widget similar to the one used in vehicle refit menu 18:26:27 <nielsm> for the purpose of determining the timetable that is 18:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: spec-wise, you can probably get away with one prop, but feature-wise it gets more complicated 18:28:20 <andythenorth> the buy menu is simple, the auto-replace is not 18:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the buy menu is far from simple 18:29:00 <andythenorth> I thought that, but then I was told I was wrong 18:29:06 <andythenorth> I considered sorting and filtering 18:29:13 <andythenorth> but seems that's not a problem 18:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> also, what about sanity checking? putting a diesel and electric version in the same group? 18:30:25 <andythenorth> what about it? 18:30:42 <andythenorth> one shows only in electric depots, one doesn't 18:31:17 <andythenorth> what about wagons trying to parent to engines? 18:31:29 <andythenorth> or vice versa? 18:31:56 <nielsm> should we change so depot buy lists always show all buyable vehicles, but those not available for the railtype of the depot are grayed out? 18:32:51 <andythenorth> I hate to say this, but 'setting'? 18:32:52 <andythenorth> or filter 18:33:18 <nielsm> a better filtering UI for the buy menu is alwo on my wishlist 18:34:19 <nielsm> I'd love to make filter/sort conditions like order by power but hide all that cost over £30k 18:34:41 <andythenorth> do we have more UI space these days? 18:34:51 <andythenorth> optional horizontal filter stack 18:35:04 <nielsm> separate window popup? 18:35:25 <nielsm> horizontal extension pane is maybe better/more in line with the rest of the gui 18:35:28 <andythenorth> I would attach it like a drawer 18:35:32 <andythenorth> to one side 18:37:04 <andythenorth> maybe buy menu should be hierarchical groups like station building UI and object UI? 18:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> better visibility of new railtypes would help the "i can only buy diesel engines" faction 18:37:10 <andythenorth> only better layouts :P 18:38:38 <andythenorth> how does the tao go? flat is better than nested? 18:38:40 <andythenorth> hmm 18:56:40 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 18:59:34 <nielsm> perhaps have named groupings of vehicles? have some default groups that act by traction type (steam, diesel, electric, none) but allow newgrf vehicles to define their own, where a group is named by its string id and not a parent vehicle 19:00:33 <andythenorth> 'railcars' 19:00:41 <andythenorth> 'narrow gauge engines' 19:00:42 <andythenorth> etc 19:00:43 <supermop_Home> sometimes i convert my deport just for a quick check to see if there is a better enough electric locomotive than the diesel one i'm about to build 19:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> people are already complaining about the horribly inconsistent groupings of stations and objects 19:01:15 <supermop_Home> to see if this next train purchase maybe justifies electrifying some track 19:01:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause are they? :) 19:01:57 <supermop_Home> but i feel like letting people see electric trains in a plain depot may lead to all sorts of confused reports 19:02:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause "I see no inconsistency here" https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9687/station_groups.png 19:02:38 <supermop_Home> i don't think objects should go with stations 19:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=6404&pid=92037#pid92037 19:03:17 <andythenorth> well yes 19:03:21 <supermop_Home> object is just a thing. just because someone draws an object to look like a station doesn't mean it makes more sense there than with the other thingd 19:03:22 <andythenorth> I find the same with ISR 19:03:31 <andythenorth> and I'm using a big object set and I can't find anything :) 19:03:34 <andythenorth> and the UI is weird 19:03:52 <andythenorth> but 19:03:56 <andythenorth> does it matter? 19:04:07 <supermop_Home> oof eddi my german is rusty 19:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: this is not about mixing objects and stations. i meant each one individually 19:05:03 <supermop_Home> ooh i learns a new thing 19:05:20 <supermop_Home> WIMRE 19:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's basically "IIRC" 19:05:36 <supermop_Home> sounds better tho 19:05:57 <supermop_Home> like you could maybe pronounce it 19:06:06 <supermop_Home> instead of eeerk 19:06:53 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:08:22 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: the basic complaint is that in "best korean stations set" the "two-sided platforms" category contains matching buffer stops, but the "one-sided platforms" category doesn't, they're in a separate category 19:08:54 <supermop_Home> that's more the fault of the grf author than anything 19:09:44 <supermop_Home> isr is maybe a little too chopped up, but there is a consistent thinking to the categories at least 19:10:22 <andythenorth> anyway 19:10:30 <supermop_Home> honestly i use chips a lot because otherwise ill get too distracted building the stations when i'm just trying to set up a route 19:10:44 <andythenorth> I was a big advocate of "we shouldn't do x because it will get complaints / bug reports" 19:10:48 <supermop_Home> can always come back and rebuild them later 19:11:06 <andythenorth> but complaints don't matter, the dev interaction with forums or reddit is minimal already 19:11:18 <andythenorth> and bug reports, we established this week we don't need to do anything about them at all 19:11:30 <andythenorth> which clarified my thinking 19:11:47 <andythenorth> I think we should try more things :P 19:11:59 <andythenorth> but not things that are crap :P 19:12:12 <supermop_Home> andy reaches the zen of the old timer who no longer gives a shit 19:12:13 <glx> I agree with supermop_Home on the "buffer" case, it's not our UI, it's the grf 19:12:51 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:13:20 <andythenorth> content = automatically not a problem 19:13:43 <glx> category come from the grf 19:14:05 <andythenorth> I know an Apple analogy will fall flat here, but the Mac never banned Comic Sans 19:14:21 <andythenorth> even though Jobs was a typography freak and a tyrant 19:14:44 <andythenorth> software can't legislate for whether the user has taste 19:15:05 <glx> yes, but openttd just displays what the grf says 19:16:52 <andythenorth> doesn't that mean we agree? :) 19:17:11 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:18:34 <nielsm> you seem to be arguing for the same thing yes 19:19:55 <andythenorth> I had a bit of brain meltdown about bugs this week :P 19:20:09 <andythenorth> can't close them, and nobody will fix them :) 19:20:15 <andythenorth> so they just fill up github 19:20:36 <glx> a contributor may decide to take a look 19:20:46 <andythenorth> at work we have a way of segmenting off bugs that are valid, but no customer will encounter, or rarely 19:21:00 <andythenorth> if I close them, they actually tend to just get re-reported 19:21:17 <andythenorth> so we leave them open, and tagged in a way that's filtered out for doing actual work 19:22:25 <glx> yes, we take care of real bugs 19:22:40 <glx> other are just like feature requests 19:23:54 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 19:24:02 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 19:24:40 <andythenorth> I'm kinda inclined to close bugs about trivial costs being wrong 19:24:51 <andythenorth> PRs would be fine, but just reporting it is pointless 19:25:06 <glx> but someone will report it again 19:25:11 <andythenorth> or like the dude who fixed 3 comment typos in a PR this morning, that's great 19:25:21 <andythenorth> but a bug report for that? waste of everyone's time 19:25:29 <glx> it's james 19:26:07 <andythenorth> well Samu finds similar cost issues, but makes PRs for them 19:26:18 <andythenorth> it's the difference between contributing, and making demands on others? 19:27:30 <glx> for me the headquarter move issue is valid but importance is very very low 19:27:36 <milek7> filling bug is making demand? 19:30:03 <andythenorth> yes, it requires reading etc 19:30:17 <andythenorth> I see so many openttd bugs, but I don't file them, it would be bad for the project 19:31:51 <andythenorth> maybe my attitude is outdated 19:32:11 <andythenorth> when frosch was the only maintainer, reporting yet another bug could have been the thing that caused frosch to quit 19:32:18 <andythenorth> and that would have been the end of OpenTTD 19:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not reporting bugs to keep the bug count low is a clear case of "wrong incentive" 19:33:17 <andythenorth> not overwhelming the maintainers is a very serious concern 19:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's the job of the maintainers to filter their workload 19:34:09 <glx> it's open source, mainteners usually can filter the importance of the bug 19:34:13 <andythenorth> every bug has to be read, thought about, possibly replicated, and at minimum replied to 19:34:21 <glx> and if it's minor it will stay open 19:35:18 <FLHerne> Hm, we could have a "trivial" label for issues? 19:35:23 <milek7> I don't think there's any obligation to reply at all 19:35:36 <andythenorth> of course there is :) 19:35:55 <glx> there is a "trivial" label, it's "good first issue" :) 19:36:10 <andythenorth> it's not a legal obligation, but not replying to bug reports is very poor 19:38:03 <FLHerne> Then andythenorth can add `-label:trivial` to his bookmarks, and be happy :D 19:38:03 <andythenorth> I could be persuaded otherwise, maybe my attitude is outdated 19:38:51 <FLHerne> Eh, I agree that not replying at all is bad 19:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you could go "meh, let other people reply" 19:39:25 <andythenorth> maybe open source has moved on? 19:39:32 <nielsm> "good for beginners" and "not important" are two different things imo 19:39:33 <andythenorth> maybe replying is no longer a thing? 19:39:43 <andythenorth> 'not important' is a value judgement 19:39:48 <nielsm> one is "easy to solve", the other is "low impact/not worth spending time on" 19:40:03 <andythenorth> there are many things around my house that *should* be fixed 19:40:07 <andythenorth> but really? 19:40:15 <FLHerne> But a reply "We acknowledge this is a real issue, but it's clearly not critical. Maybe try fixing it yourself?" or so 19:40:24 <andythenorth> like every flake of paint, and every spot of damp? 19:40:30 <nielsm> yeah a canned reply like that can also work 19:40:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: No, replying should definitely be a thing 19:40:41 <andythenorth> I have canned replies for feature requests 19:41:00 <FLHerne> Nothing more demotivating than an unanswered <whatever> 19:41:37 <andythenorth> unlikely to attract further contributions 19:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there's something worse: you find someone else's question about the same thing and that was also unanswered 19:41:42 <andythenorth> unless you are someone like a James 19:43:09 <andythenorth> remember known_bugs.txt? :) 19:43:53 <andythenorth> still exists :o 19:43:54 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/known-bugs.txt 19:44:15 <andythenorth> " If you do, do not act surprised, because we WILL flame you!" < that definitely seems outdated these days 19:44:54 <glx> it's like readme, nobody reads them anyway :) 19:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like something TrueBrain would say :p 19:45:25 <andythenorth> we all used to say stuff like that no? :) 19:45:33 <andythenorth> "The current list of known bugs that we intend to fix can be found in our bug tracking system at https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues" 19:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that statement would be true 19:46:01 <andythenorth> no 19:46:13 <andythenorth> maybe Github issues are no longer really a 'to-do' list? 19:46:32 <andythenorth> nobody uses issue trackers as a way of planning actual work do they? 19:46:34 <glx> well no given time frame 19:46:42 <andythenorth> we all have our own private little system, like trello or just notes 19:46:55 <nielsm> I think the issue list should contain all known, unfixed bugs 19:47:02 <nielsm> even if they are unlike to ever be fixed 19:47:13 <andythenorth> issue trackers are more like putting up a flag so other people can say '+1 I have this' 19:47:21 <andythenorth> any real work is either private, or in a PR 19:47:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:48:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:48:40 <andythenorth> "won't fix" can be a valid label 19:48:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:48:56 <andythenorth> then known-bugs.txt becomes a link to a filter 19:49:30 <milek7> FLHerne: personally I don't think canned response is somehow better than no response 19:49:34 <milek7> it's equivalent 19:50:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8174: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/Jfooy 19:50:49 <andythenorth> not if you're the contributor 19:50:55 <andythenorth> I don't mean a bot 19:51:07 <andythenorth> the bot got deleted for some reason :P 19:51:28 <nielsm> even a canned response (triggered by a human) shows someone has looked at your report 19:51:48 <nielsm> even if the response is "looks like a bug, but don't expect a fix unless you make it yourself" 19:52:02 <andythenorth> many contributors start by finding and reporting bugs 19:52:10 <andythenorth> silence does not encourage them 20:07:29 <FLHerne> milek7: Yes, I don't mean a literally automated response 20:07:55 <FLHerne> Just a polite human one, even if it is "stock" 20:08:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth is good at writing those 20:08:29 <FLHerne> It's just that he tends to close the bug afterward :P 20:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: honestly, i think "the bot" did more harm than good 20:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> in this project, things are not time-critical 20:11:33 *** mindlesstux666 has joined #openttd 20:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's done when it's done 20:11:40 *** mindlesstux66 has quit IRC 20:17:16 *** arikover` has quit IRC 20:34:04 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 20:34:40 <andythenorth> I think it's very dependent on the number of active reviewers 20:34:57 <andythenorth> when there are very few, the key thing above all is to avoid maintainer burnout 20:35:05 <andythenorth> when there are more...it's more laissez faire 20:35:11 * andythenorth -> TV time 20:38:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #7893: Dedicated server crash https://git.io/JexHL 20:38:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #7893: Dedicated server crash https://git.io/JexHL 20:38:54 <Speeder_> andythenorth, when you get back, and you tell me what the Iron Horse brake car does? is it useful or only for show? 20:39:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted) https://git.io/fjqCX 20:39:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted) https://git.io/fjqCX 20:39:31 <andythenorth> Speeder_ only for show 20:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the usual solution for burnout is to recruit new people faster :p 20:51:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #8104: SDL2 : Fullscreen to Window https://git.io/Jf3Jn 20:57:39 <Speeder_> industries are composite of several buildings? 20:57:58 <Yexo> composite of several tiles 21:05:27 <nielsm> and industry has one or more tilelayouts, and a tilelayout consists of one or more industrytiles 21:05:33 *** arikover has joined #openttd 21:05:52 <nielsm> the same industrytile can be used many times in one layout, and across multiple layouts 21:06:08 <nielsm> I think the same industrytile can even be used in multiple different industries? 21:08:34 <Speeder_> alright, got in a catch22 situation here on my planning 21:08:45 <Speeder_> I think will be easier to solve it, by now returning to my editing of FIRS 21:08:58 <Speeder_> so... any link explaining how to easily compile NML on MSYS? 21:10:06 <nielsm> you don't even actually need to compile it 21:10:15 <nielsm> it can run as-is with just python 21:10:32 <nielsm> but it'll use a slower encoder for the graphics 21:10:51 <Speeder_> so how I install the trunk nml? 21:11:03 <Speeder_> the master* 21:11:04 <nielsm> you download it and then run it 21:11:42 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:13:22 <FLHerne> Hm, nml in-browser with pypyjs? 21:13:45 <nielsm> upload a zip and get a compiled grf back? 21:13:51 <FLHerne> Something like that 21:14:03 <nielsm> not even uploading I guess 21:14:18 <FLHerne> It wouldn't work well with all these weird buildsystems though 21:14:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:15:11 <FLHerne> By the time you've run Make or CPP or andy's python templating stack, nmlc is the easy bit :p 21:15:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:15:47 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 21:15:48 <Yexo> to get it to work with the build stacks you need to first pack it up as an electron app again 21:16:53 <Speeder_> yay, seemly is compiling FIRS3 successfully 21:17:00 <Speeder_> glx, I think your patch from 3 days ago worked 21:30:04 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:32:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause how to recruit new people faster? :) 21:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> how would i know? :p 21:46:50 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:48:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8175: Fix #7970: Recursive faults in Windows post-crash due to event loop input https://git.io/JfoXU 21:54:16 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:56:34 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:56:35 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:04:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #8092: Swedish translation issue in the performance rating window https://git.io/JfTUv 22:04:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #8092: Swedish translation issue in the performance rating window https://git.io/JfTUv 22:08:49 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:14:47 <Speeder_> is "produce" block mandatory? 22:17:37 <andythenorth> no, depends on the industry 22:18:05 <andythenorth> there are multiple ways to implement cargo production 22:20:30 <Speeder_> andythenorth, FIRS always use it? 22:20:57 <Speeder_> I am trying to figure out best way to add NML5 style stuff without changing the NML4.5 ones. 22:21:20 <andythenorth> FIRS probably doesn't use it for hotel 22:21:28 <andythenorth> or black hole industries maybe 22:22:36 <andythenorth> if you are using the actual FIRS codebase, and not just editing the nml, this is a hard way to go 22:22:46 <andythenorth> you'll have to engage with all the FIRS internal crap 22:22:57 <andythenorth> you'll need a new class of industry 22:23:10 <andythenorth> it's possible to do that btw 22:31:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:40:58 <Speeder_> andythenorth, FIRS4 has support for each cargo producing something specific? 22:41:02 <Speeder_> like the nml specs support? 22:41:27 <andythenorth> no, I think it's all 'produce' in FIRS 4 22:41:29 * andythenorth looks 22:43:49 <andythenorth> yup all produce 22:44:19 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/v4-release-track/src/templates/industry_tertiary.pynml#L25 22:44:59 * andythenorth wonders about FIRS 3 22:45:17 <glx> FIRS3 uses produce too 22:45:22 <glx> but the old one 22:45:49 <andythenorth> looks like FIRS 3 uses action 0 for tertiaries like hotel 22:46:39 <andythenorth> yeah it sets prod multiplier, I think it's action 0 for a few industries, produce for most 22:49:47 <Speeder_> why FIRS uses produce? 22:49:56 <Speeder_> just so I get what it does differently from action 0 22:51:15 <andythenorth> for primaries, it's the only sane way to adjust production to account for supplies 22:51:33 <andythenorth> for secondary, it's the only sane way to do combinatorial production 22:51:58 <andythenorth> for tertiary, I switched to produce so I'm only using one method not two 22:58:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz left a comment on commit: Cleanup: Correct typographic errors in code comments. https://git.io/JfoM5 23:18:32 <Speeder_> combinatorial production? as in... several inputs leading to only one output? 23:21:07 <andythenorth> as in different ratios depending which cargos are recently delivered 23:23:53 <Speeder_> andythenorth, that is the default now with nml5 no? 23:25:25 <andythenorth> there is a new syntax for action 0 which may or may not do that 23:25:33 <andythenorth> I don't use it so I don't know :) 23:25:51 <andythenorth> TL;DR most newgrf problems tend towards using the callback if one exists 23:26:01 <andythenorth> produce is a callback, action 0 props are proprs 23:26:10 <andythenorth> props are generally less flexible 23:26:26 <andythenorth> it's not universal advice, callback is not always needed 23:26:42 <andythenorth> also bed :) 23:26:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:26:52 <Speeder_> andythenorth, the syntax example for nml5 has this: accept_cargo("IORE", produce_cargo("STEL", 1), produce_cargo("SLAG", 0.25)) 23:26:55 <Speeder_> D: 23:26:58 <Speeder_> :(